p.

Human Trafficking Conversation Series: In Our Backyard

Kurt:WhatIwouldliketodonowisjustsayacouplemorewordsabouttheMcCain
Institute'seffortsinhumantrafficking,andthenturnitovertoourtwofantasticspeakers
tonight.
TheMcCainInstitutewasestablishedacoupleofyearsagonow,withafocuson
characterdrivenleadership,andapplyingthatsenseofcharacterandvaluesthroughout
areasofwork,ofhumanitarianwork,humanrights,andnationalsecurity.
Inthehumanitarianarea,veryearlyon,wedecidedthatoneoftheissuesthatneedsmore
attentionandmorefocus,andwherewecantrytomovetheneedleistheareaofhuman
trafficking.Wehaveworkedveryclosely,supportingtheeffortsofMrs.McCain,who
wasnamedthecochairofthegovernor'staskforceinArizonaonhumantrafficking,and
isnowthecochairoftheongoingcommitteetopursuethisissueovertime.
We'vehadtremendoussuccess,thanksinlargeparttotheawarenessbuildingthatMrs.
McCainandothershavedoneandtheworkofthattaskforce.
Arizona,earlierthisyear,approvednewlegislationgivingsignificantnewpowerstolaw
enforcement.Atthehumantraffickingcouncilmeeting,justyesterdayinArizona,the
FBIrepresentativepresentsaidthatArizonareallystandsasamodelamongmanystates
forthetoolsthatitismakingavailabletopursuethiscrimeinArizona.
That'sreallythankslargelytotheawarenessbuildingeffortsandthetaskforcework
cochairedbyMrs.McCain.We'reveryproudattheMcCainInstitutetohavedonesome
ofthetechnicalsupporttohelpbringthatabout.
We'reinterestedinlearningmore.WesponsorresearchthroughArizonaStateUniversity,
someoriginalresearch,thatishelpingestablishafactdrivendatabaselineforwhatsex
traffickingreallymeansinArizona.We'reinterestedinusingtechnologyandlookingat
howtheInternetisusedtoexploitpeopleforhumantrafficking,buthowitalsocanbe
usedtotrackhumantraffickinganddisruptnetworks.
We'reinterested,obviously,inmakingthisnotonlysomethingthatwepursueasan
institute,orthatispursuedinArizonathroughthetaskforce,butsomethingthatbecomes
afocusandanationalfocusandaninternationalfocus,sothatwereallydomakea
fundamentaldifferenceinputtingthisheinouspracticetoanend.
Withthat,IwanttointroduceagainMrs.CindyMcCain,whohasmadethisoneofher
crusades.Whenyouknowthatshehasacrusade,youjustgetoutoftheway.
[laughter]

p.2

Kurt:Thishasbeentremendouslysuccessful.We'resopleasedtobeworkingtogether
withMrs.McCainonthis.Asyousaw,wehadoriginallyinvitedJohnRyanfromthe
NationalCenterforMissingandExploitedChildren.Unfortunately,he'sunabletobe
withustonightforsomepersonalreasons.
WearedelightedtohaveSeniorVicePresidentandGeneralCounselfortheNational
CenterforMissingandExploitedChildren,YiotaSouras.
Withthat,letmeturnitovertothetwoofyou.Mrs.McCain,offyougo.
CindyMcCain:Thankyou,Kurt.Thankyou.Firstofall,westillhaveHeidionline.
Canyouhearus,Heidi?Senator.I'msorry.
SenatorHeidiHeitkamp:Ican.I'mgoingtostayaslongasIcan,Cindy.
Cindy:Ihaveaspecificquestionforyou,iswhy.I'dlikeyoutoaddressthegroupabout
ourNativeAmericanissuemoreindepth.
SenatorHeitkamp:Weareveryconcernedaboutwhat'shappeningonourreservations
andveryconcernedaboutwhat'shappeningwithurbanIndianpopulations.Whenyou
lookatthereportthatwasreleasedtoday,Idon'tknowifyou'vehadachancetoseeit
Cindy,itwastheonethatSenatorDorganwasworkingwiththeDepartmentofJustice
on.ItshowsarecordandahistoryofvictimizationofNativeAmericanchildrenthatis
unmatchedorunparalleled,inthiscountry,amonganyotherethnicgroup.
TakingwhatIsaidearlier,whichisthatthegroomingofthecandidatefortrafficking
tendstogotolowerincome,tendstogotokidswho'vebeenvictimizedinthepast.
Automatically,thatputsthematacategorythatishugelyatrisk.
Beyondthat,wehaveajurisdictionalchallengeonIndiancountryintheUnitedStates,
especiallyIndiancountrynow,wherewehavethisoilboomatthesametime.Thefederal
governmenthasmajorcrimeprosecutorialresponsibilityonmyreservations,butthey
don'thaveamajorlawenforcementpresence.
I'mnotexaggeratingtotellyouthatinmanycasesit'slawlessness,frequently,on
reservations.Itisopenseasonforvictimization.Ijusttalkedtoatribaljudgethis
morning,whotoldmeofvariousconclavesorpocketswithinthereservationatthe
Mandan,Hidatsa,andArikaraNation.Theyknowtraffickingishappening.
Bythenametheneighborsreportit,they'veclearedout.It'sverymobile.It'svery,very
difficulttogetahandleon.Wehaveanaturalpopulationthatissubjecttovictimization.
Wehavetolookatthisinaspecialcategorybecauseofthejurisdictionalchallenges,
especiallywhenitoccursonthereservation.
Frequently,theotherconcernthatIhaveisthatfortreatmentofthevictims.Italkto
prosecutorsinMinnesota.WehavealotofurbanIndiansinMinnesota,whothenmigrate
onandoffthereservations,onandoffIndiancountry.

p.3

YounggirlleftbyhermotherinMinneapolis,fallsinwiththewrongcrowd,needsa
placetosleep,needsfood,needsthecomfortsofhome,getsgroomedintothatlife.
Eventually,she'sawillingparticipantinaprosecution.Shevanishes.Nooneknows
wheresheis.Noone'sdonethefollowup.Noone'sdonethetreatment.It'sprobably
likelyshe'sbackinthelife.
Wehavesuchauniqueissueandsuchauniqueresponsibility,Ithink,tonativechildren.
We'vegottosegregatethat,andCindyknowshowpassionateIamaboutthisissueand
howpassionateIamaboutprotectingallchildrenofthiscountry,butparticularlyNative
Americanchildren.
Cindy:Thankyou,andwe'llreleaseyou.Pleasego.[laughs]Idon'twanttokeepyou
anylonger.Makearunforthefloor.Thankyousomuch.Thankyou.Thankyou.
SenatorHeitkamp:Thankyou!We'llseeyoulater,Cindy.Byebye.
Cindy:Yiota,thankyouverymuchforcoming.Iamsopleasedtoseeallofyouhere,
too.I'mreally,IwasreallyanxioustogetthatquestionansweredfromSenatorHeitkamp
becauseitisobviouslyanissuethataffectsArizonaaswellandmanyothersouthwestern
andwesternstates.
Iamsopleasedtohaveyouhere.Formanyreasons,butwewerechattingonthephone
earliertodayandtohavealegalaspectofthis,someonewithalegaleyeonitandalegal
thoughtprocessonthisisextremelyimportant.Becausethat'swherewe'reatrightnow
nationally,isintheprocessofnotonlyformulatinggoodlegislation,butpassingit.I'm
reallygladyou'rehere,foranumberofreasons.
Anyway,I'dliketostartwithwhatI'dcallalotoftheseconversations.Iknowthere's
manyofyouintheaudiencethathaveahistorywithhumantrafficking.Youworkinthe
arena.You'rewithanNGO,whateveritmaybe.ButIwouldliketostartwith,forthose
online,humantrafficking101.
Canyoutellusexactlywhathumantraffickingisandistherearealdefinition,one
definitionforit?
YiotaSouras:Icertainlythinkdifferentnonprofitsthatfocusperhapsonsextrafficking
orlabortrafficking,etc.,mighthaveaslightlydifferentdefinition.
AtNCMEC,theNationalCenterforMissingandExploitedChildren,wefocusonchild
sextrafficking,andwegenerallywouldlookatthatasanyscenariowhereachildis
placedinasituationwheretheyaretradingsexforsomethingelse.Itcouldbemoney.It
couldbemoneytoathirdparty.Itcouldbemoneytothemselves.Butitcouldalsobe
exchangeforanythingelse.Abedforthenight,food,etc.
Cindy:Food,shelter.

p.4

Yiota:Exactly.
Cindy:IknowthatwewerechattingearlierandIsaidmybiggestfrustration,oneofmy
biggestfrustrationsinthiswhenIbeganallthis,wasthedisbeliefthatitactuallyoccurs.
Thatit,"Oh,no,thathappensinCambodia.ThathappensinIndia.Itdoesn'thappen
here."Imetwithaprominentnewspaperwhosaidjustthattome.Thatwedon'tbelieveit
exists.You'regoingtohavetoproveittous,andthisisamajornewspaper.
I'dliketofindoutfromyouwhatNCMEChasdonetonotonlyproveit,buttoproveto
thedisbelievers.Notjustprovingittothoseofuswhoknowitexists,butgivingusdata,
buttothedisbelievers.
Yiota:NCMECbeganalittleover30yearsagoreallyfocusingonmissingchildren
issues.Weaddedtothatafocusonexploitedchildrenissues,especiallyonline
exploitation.Thedistributionofonlinechildpornography,forinstance.
Severalyearsagowestartedtoseeacorrelationbetweenthetwodepartments.Wewere
startingtoseechildrenwhohadgonemissing,mostlyrunaways,whowerethenalso
turningupinanexploitedcase.Thatwasveryeyeopeningtousandreallyshowedusa
problemthatwasemerging.
Soaboutthreeyearsagoweactuallystartedachildsextraffickingteamwithinthe
organization.Itisacombinationofthemissingandtheexploiteddepartmentsthatwe
have,sothatwecanactuallybringtheanalyticsandtheinformationthatwe'rereceiving
fromthepublicandfromtheotherresourceswehave,toreallyfocusonthosemissing
childrenwhoareatriskfortraffickingorwhoweknowarebeingtrafficked,again,who
mightbeexploitedandwe'rereceivingreportsfromthemonthatsideaswell.
Wehaveseenanincreasinggrowthinthosereports.Lastyearalonewereceivedover
10,000reportsofchildsextrafficking.Iwouldjustadd,there'snorequirementforthose
reportstobemadetoNCMEC.Thatisjustvoluntaryindividualsandcompanies,when
theyseepotentialchildsextrafficking,whoaremakingthosereportstous.Sothatwe
canprocessthoseandpassthemontolawenforcement,hopefullytorecoverthatchild.
Inaboutthepastfiveyearswherewehavebeenreallytrackingthesenumbers,we've
seena1,432percentincreaseinthenumberofchildsextraffickingreports.
Cindy:Saythatonemoretime.
Yiota:1,432percentincreaseinthenumberofchildsextraffickingreportsreceivedat
NCMEC.
Cindy:Ican'tevenfathomhowmuchthatis,howbigthatis.
Yiota:Someofthatisawareness,whichiswonderful.AwarenessofNCMECasa
resourceofchildsextraffickingasaproblemtobereported,forpeopletoreachoutfor

p.5

assistancetochildren.Butwecouldalsolookatitasanincreasingproliferationofthe
problemaswell.Onlinechildsextraffickingisahugeproblem.Weseeanincreasing
numberofthosereportsinthereportswe'vereceivedoverthepastfiveyears.
Cindy:Doesthetrainingorlackoftrainingonthepartofthepolicedepartmentshave
anythingtodo...Iknowmorepolicedepartmentsarenowtrainedinthisarea,butpartof
thattraininghastodowithbeingabletorecognizethatachildthatisperhapsabusedin
frontofyou,orhomeless,orwhatever,mayisalsoavictimofsextrafficking.
Iknowwe'vehadagreatdealofemphasisontraininginArizona.Howdoesthisplayin
withwhatyou'reseeing?
Yiota:It'sdefinitelyafactor.Welookattheissueofchildsextraffickingasthreemain
factors.It'smultifaceted,ofcourse,butidentifying,locating,andrecovering.Thoseare
hugeareas,ofcourse,tocover,butidentifyingisatremendousissue.
We'vestartedtodosomeoutreachandtrainingnotonlytolawenforcement,social
workers,butalsotoschoolsandcommunities.Thoseareveryimportantpeoplein
children'slives,whomightnoticethatachildmightbefallingintoatraffickingsituation
ormighthavesomeriskfactorsforthat.It'stremendouslyimportant.
Iagreewithyou,Mrs.McCain.It'sbeenincreasing,wherelawenforcementareawareof
theissues,aretakingadvantageofthetrainingopportunities,buttherecouldbealot
moreoutthere.
Cindy:Thatwasoneofthelargestemphasesthatourtaskforceathometookupinallof
this,andI'mhappytosayit'sbeenalittlebitsuccessfultoo.ThereasonIbroughtupthe
NativeAmericanissuewithHeidiwasbecausetherehasbeen,fromourcalculations
anyway,therewere96humantraffickingbillspassedin2014,onastatelevel.
[laughter]
Cindy:Weweretalkingbackstage.Isaid,"Thisisveryfrustratingbecausethere'salot
goingon."We,inArizona,hadonebilllastyear.Inowknowof20some,30somebills
thatarebeingproposedthisyear.
Thereseemstobealotofduplicationinallofthis.I'djustlikeyourassessmentonthat.
Whatshouldwebedoing,fromastatelevel,tomakethisalittleeasierandalittlebetter?
Yiota:Firstofall,I'dechothefactthatit'stremendousthatthatnumberofstatesand
legislaturesarefocusingontheissue,aretryingtofindsolutionsandthenbeing
responsivetothecommunityneeds,butit'sverydifficult.
It'sverydifficultIthinkforlawenforcement,prosecutors,andevenserviceproviders,
whenmultiplebillsareupfordiscussionorpassed,mightbealittleoverlapping,might
bealittlecontradictory.

p.6

Ithinksomeofthethemesthathavecomeoutinsomeofthependingfederallegislation
thathasbeendiscussed,thesafeharborissuethatSenatorHeitkamp,ofcourse...
Cindy:Gointothesafeharborissuealittlebitwiththat.
Yiota:Theconceptofsafeharborreallyistwopronged.Oneistheconceptthatachild
wholawenforcementperhapshasrecoveredfromatraffickingsituationisavictimandis
asurvivoroncetheygetrecovered,isnotacriminalwho'scommittedthecrimeof
prostitution,orsolicitation,oranyoneoftheothernumberoflawsthatmaybeonthe
booksstatewide.
Again,it'stheconceptthatthatchildneedstobedivertedoutofthecriminalsystem.
Sometimes,it'sanimmediatediversion,wherethechildwillnotbechargedwith
prostitutionorotherrelatedcrimes.Sometimes,itisatwostepprocesswherethecrimes
willbependinguntilthechildcompletescertainsocialservicesandothertreatment
options.
Thefirstisreallylegal.Thesecondthoughisreallyprovidingservicestothatchild.
Whenthatchildgetsrecoveredfromatraffickingscenario,inastingoperationor
somethingelse,theyhavetheclothesontheirback,andtheyhavenothingelse.
Theydonothaveanywheretogogettheirstuffandgosomewhereelse.Theydonot
likelyhaveotherfriendsorfamilythat,atthatmoment,theycangobackto.
It'salsotheimmediateabilitytoprovideservicestothatchild,forthatchildtoknow
wherethey'regoingtosleepthatnight,wherethey'regoingtobeintwoweeks,what's
goingtohappentothemnext,toreallytrytogetthemnotonlyphysicallyoutofthat
traffickingscenario,butalsointoarealrecoveryprocess.
That'sreallytheconceptofsafeharbor.It'sawonderfulthing.It'spendinginSenator
Heitkamp'sandSenatorKlobuchar'sbillrightnow,andit'sbeenthesubjectofalotof
discussionthisyearontheHill.
Cindy:IjustwasoutinMinnesota,visitingoneofSenatorKlobuchar'sfacilitiesthatshe
reallytriumphsandtalksabout.Itindeedwasatremendousfacility.Itwasan
allencompassingfacility.Whatevergirlsorboyswindupinthatfacilitygetafullrange
ofservices.Theyhavethingsavailabletothemforalengthoftime.Itisreallylovely.
Theportionofthatthatisalsoaddressedbut,Ithink,inalittlebitdifferentwayisthe
treatmentofjohns,whichwasjustraisedbySenatorHeitkamp.Theysendtheirjohns,in
Minnesota,tojohnschool.Thecostofthejohnschoolissomewhereintheneighborhood
of$900.
Themoniesallgotohelptreatthesekidsthathavebeensoterriblyabused.Theyspend
oneortwodays.I'mnotquitesurewhatitis.Thentheygetaslaponthewrist,and
they'reoutofthere.Firstofall,whatdoyouthinkofthataspectofthis,anddoyouthink

p.7

it'sstrongenough?
Yiota:Initially,any...
Cindy:Whatwouldyoudodifferentlyifyouweregoingto?
Yiota:Anypreventativemeasureoranyeffortstoaddressdemandarepositive.We
knownotallstatesaredoingthatuniformlyorenough.Idothinktheconceptofajohn
school,tousethatterm,isveryinadequate.Theseareindividualswhohavetriedtobuya
child...
Cindy:Predators.
Yiota:...torapethatchild.Theyarepredatorsandoffenders.Theylikely,weknow,just
giventheproliferationofthecrime,thetimethattheywerearrestedislikelynotthefirst
timethattheytriedtoordidbuyachildforsex.
Theconceptofhavingsomethingequivalenttoperhapsadriver'sedschoolforsomeone
that'sgottentoomanyspeedingticketssotheycanberemediatedinthatsense,Ithink
fallsabitshort.Itisaveryviolentandlonglastingcrimethattheyperpetrate,andIthink
itneedstobetreatedassuch.
Cindy:OutWest,whenwebeganallofthis,thewordthatweusedtotalkaboutthemis
"childabusers."Inmyopinion,andthisisjustmyopinion,Ibelievetheyarechild
abusers.Ibelievethattheyshouldbetreatedassuch.
ThereisaconflictingdiscussionoutWestabouthowwetreatthem.Peoplesaid,"Let's
publishtheirpicturesinthenewspaper,"whichweusedtodoinArizona.Wedon'tdo
thatanymore.Weraisedthisinoneofourfirstmeetingsandsaid,"Whatabout
publishingthepicturesinthenewspaper?"
Ikidyounot.Alawenforcementperson,nonames,said,"Hemightgethurt.Hiswife
mighthurthim."It'slikelivingin...Forme,I'mlikeonthemoonorsomething.Ican't
believethestufftheseguyssay.Anyway.
Idon'tknowwhat'sright.Shameisagreatdeterrentinallofthis.Iliketheideaof
fundingsomeofthevictimservicesinthis,butIagreewithyou.Idon'tthinkonedayor
adriver'sedschool,asyouputit,isnecessarilytherightwaytogoaboutthis.
Yiota:No,andagain...
Cindy:Shoulditbelegislated?
Yiota:I'mcomingalittlebitmorefromthelegalstandpoint.Ithinktherearesome
recentcourtdecisionswhicharestrengtheninghowprosecutorscanapproachbuyersin
thisscenario.TherewasagreatlandbreakingcaselastyearoutinSouthDakota,closeto
SenatorHeitkamp'sarea,whichforthefirsttimeheldthatabuyer,oranattemptedbuyer,

p.8

ofachildforsexcouldbetreatedasatraffickerunderthetraffickingstatute.
Averystrongdecision,butitonlycoversafewstates.Basicallywhatthatdoes,togivea
littlefurtherexplanation,isitopensupadditionalpenaltiesforindividualswhotrytobuy
childrenforsex.
ThosekindofcasesIthinkaretremendouslypowerful.There'sadeterrencefactoraswell
whenyouhavecaselawthatcangivesentencingofthatsorttopotentialbuyers.Someof
thestudieshaveshowntheprobabilityofthemgettingarrestedandthesentencingthey
mayreceivetheyhavevocalizedasbeingbigdeterrentfactors.
Therecertainlyisshaming.There'seducation.There'sveryharshprosecutionalsothatI
thinkcanbeapowerfuldeterrent.
Cindy:WejusthadaguyinPhoenix,obviouslyI'veveryinvolvedinthisinArizona.
TherewasabigstinginTempe,Arizona,[inaudible20:15]ASU,notASUwasinvolved,
butitwastheareawhereitwasat.Anyway,oneofthementhatwaspickedupinit,and
thesewereallchildrenthatwererescuedfromthis,butoneofthementhatwaspickedup
inithadputaquestiononbackpage.comsayinghewantedtofindacheerleader.
Indeedhedidfindacheerleader,a14yearoldcheerleaderthatwoundupbeingastudent
atthehighschoolhetaughtat.Ikidyounot,thisjusthappenedinArizona.
It'sstufflikethatthat'sgoingon,butthefactisthestingwasbig,itwashardcore,and
theygottheseguys.Letmetellyou,therippleeffectofthishasbeenveryinterestingin
Arizona.We'veseensomemore,butanyway,I'mallforbigstings.
We'vebeentalkingaboutfederallegislation.We'vetalkedaboutthejohnsalittlebit.
We'vetalkedabouttheeffortsthatyouallaredoing.ButI'dliketotalkmoreindepth
abouttraining.Trainingandhowweeducateourowncommunities.
Fromyourstandpoint,fromthemissingchildrenstandpoint,Iknowtraining'svery
important.Iknowthatyoudothat.Iknowthatyouparticipateandhelpother
organizationsdothat.Butarewedoingittherightway,byjustfocusingonthepoliceor
shouldweeducatethegeneralpublic?
Woman2:Ithinkithastobemuchbroader.Ithinktoaddressthefirstresponderneed,
let'ssaylawenforcement,socialworkers,individualswhoarecomingintodirectcontact
withthesechildren,isimmenselyimportant.Thosearethefirsttwotrainingprograms
thatNCMEChasrolledout.Onedirectedtolawenforcementandprosecutors,anda
secondtrainingprogramreallyonforensicinterviewing.Individualswhoaretryingto
drawthestoryoutandsomeofthedetailsofthesechildren's'experiencesoncethey're
recovered.
Atthesametime,wearealsostartingtoshiftandfocusmoreoncommunityawareness,
andespeciallytochildren,teenagerssotheycanbeawareofpotentialluringorpotential
suggestionsthattheymayreceive,whetherit'sonlineorotherwise,sothey'reawarethis

p.9

isaproblem.
Thishastobedoneintheappropriatemannerfortheagegroup,butthatsortof
awarenessisveryimportant.Again,schools,immenselyimportant,Ithink.Someschools
willseeachildmorethantheirownfamilymembersmight,justgivenschoolschedules.
Theirabilitytonoticechangesinachild'sdemeanor,ordress,orabsencesfromschool
canbeveryvitalineitherpreventinganissueorbeingabletopullbackachildwhomay
bestartingtheentryintoatraffickingexperience.
Cindy:I'msurethateducatinghospitalworkersaswell,becausethatwasraisedwithus.
Wefeltnotonlywasitimportant,butitwasutterlynecessarynow,becausesomanyof
thesekidswindupintheERorwindupatsomepointhavinganinteractionwiththe
medicalfields,yeah.
Yiota:That'sagreatpoint.
Cindy:OneofthethingsI'mcuriousaboutformyselfislawenforcementandtheuseof
thewordprostitution.I'dliketoknowreallywhatyouthink,yourviewonthis.Should
webedoingthatalittlebitdifferently?Ihaveahardtimecallinga12yearoldchilda
prostitute.
Yiota:We'vecategoricallymovedawayfromthetermprostitutionwithinNCMEC.
Organizationwideitisnotatermwerecognize.Itisnotanappropriateterm.A
12yearoldcannotbeaprostitute.An11yearold,a17yearold.Weusethetermchild
sextraffickingvictim,orchildsextraffickingsurvivor.Thatisdoneuniformly.
Thereisawonderfulpieceoflegislationthat'spendingrightnowwhichwouldactually
altertheenactinglegislationthatNCMEChastochangethetermchildprostitutionfrom
theoneoftheareaswefocusontochildsextrafficking.Wethinkthatisveryinkeeping
withhowalltheserviceprovidersarereferringtothisproblem.
Cindy:NotonlydoIagreewiththat,butatleastwe'retryingtomakeaseriouseffortin
changingthelanguageandchangingtheapproachtothis.It'sdifficult,though.
Yiota:Itchangesthemindset,also.Forlawenforcementespeciallywhomightbeused
tothecriminalizationofprostitutingandwhatthatmeans,andthestatutescriminalizing
thatsortofactivity,toapproachachildandimmediatelythinkofvictimorsurvivor,and
notthewordprostituteintheirhead.
Forthatchild,nottohearthattermwhentheyare,again,broughtinfromasting
operationorsomethinglikethat,forthemnottohearthemselvesreferredtoasthatterm
isverypowerfulalso,wefeel.
Cindy:Let'sgooffshoreforaminute.Iknowthatyoualldo...You'reveryactive
offshore,andorganizedcrime,becausethisisthebiggerpictureinallofthis,ishow
organizeditis.

p.10

Wouldyoutellouraudienceandtalkalittlebitaboutorganization,whothiseffects,what
kindofmoneyinvolved,allthosekindsofthings?
Yiota:Sure.Themoneyquestionisalwaysaverydifficultone.
Cindy:Ithinkit'sbig.
Yiota:Ithinkwe'regoingtoguessit'sabignumber.[laughs]Itisaveryderegulated
business.Iwouldcallitabusiness.Therecertainlyareanecdotalstoriesoftraffickers
whomightworktogetherandcertainlyworkchildrenacrossthecountry,sothey'renot
evenlocalized,let'ssay.Theymighthaveacircuitofcitieswheretheyhaveconnections
orwheretheywillbringgirlsandboyswhoarebeingtraffickedaroundacertaincircuit.
ItmightbeintheNortheast,itmightbehereintheSouthwest,buttheywillkeeptothat,
let'ssay,businessmodel,becausethatisonethatworksandonethattheyfeelsecurein.
ThemoneyisnotsomethingthatNCMECtracks.Thereareotherorganizationsthatput
estimatesout.Weknowthatsomeoftheonlineadvertisers,suchasbackpage,andsome
oftheothercompaniesouttherechargeforads,andtheychargeforescortadsonly.
Whenwesayescortads,thoseareprostitutionads.Thatincludesadsofchildrenbeing
traffickedaswell.Thosenumberareestimatedinthemanymillionsayearinrevenue.
Cindy:Ihadsomeonedescribethistomeawhileback,actuallyithasstuckwithme.
Youcansellguns,drugs,animals,animalpartsandthingsthattheycollectinAfricaand
otherplaces,youcansellthemonce.Youcansellachildover,andover,andoveragain.
TheMcCainInstitutehasestimatedthatonechildisworthintheneighborhoodofahalfa
milliondollarstoatraffickerorapimp.Ahalfamilliondollarsforonechild.Ifyou've
gotastableofsixorsevenchildren,you'reinthemoney.
Oneofthethingsthatwehavetalkedaboutagreatdealisthepropensityforthistomove
offshore.Oneoftheargumentsthatwasgiventousparticularly,andwe'llgetinto
backpage,I'msavingthebestforlast.Butalotoftheseonlineadvertisingsandallthese
thingssay,"Well,ifyoustopithere,itwilljustmoveitoffshore.Ifwekeepitonshore,
thenwecanwatchit,wecankeepcontrolofit."Thatwasactuallysaidtomeonetime.
Iguessmyquestiontoyouis,it'salreadyoffshore,andit'soffshoreinamajorway.How
faroffandhowfardeepdoesthisgo,doyouthink?
Yiota:Asfarastheinternationalspreadofit?
Cindy:Yeah,andwherearethetentaclesleadinginthis?
Yiota:TospeakfromNCMEC'sexperience,wecertainlyseeontheexploitationside
thatchildpornographyimages,andI'mgoingtorelatetheminsomeway,isabsolutelya
worldwideissue.Wereceivereportsfromaroundtheworld,includingtheUSofcourse.
ButanyonewithanInternetconnectionhastheabilitytorunthisbusiness,postads,

p.11

providetraffickingvictimsandreallyengageinthiskindofactivity.
IdonotthinkweshouldthinkofitasaUSproblem,evenifthere'scurrentexamplesof
USproblemsforustoaddress.InthatareaIthinkitisabsolutelyaninternationalissue.
Cindy:Isthisanationalsecurityissue?
Yiota:Idon'tknowthatIwouldgothatfar.Again,justfromourviewpointwe'rereally
focusingonthechildreninthisissueandnotsomuchtheflowofmoneyorinformation
thatmightgoalongwithit.
Cindy:Yeah,IthinkthedeeperwegetintothisIdon'tdisagreewithyou,butIwill
addtothatIthinkthedeeperwedelveintothisandthefartherwefollowthemoney
andthefartherwefollowthetentaclesinallofthis,Ithinkitbecomesanationalsecurity
problembecauseit'sgoingtoleadtotheworstoftheworst.Theguyswiththeblackflags
thatareinthesecountriesallovertheworldnow.
It'sbeenproposedthatthat'swhat'sgoingon.Ithasnotbeencompletelyprovedyet.I
throughthatoutthereonlybecausethatissomethingtheMcCainInstituteisworkingon
rightnowtogetintothataspectofhumantrafficking.
Twothings.SuperBowl.Ithinkalotofpeoplearedisillusionedandprobablythink,"Oh,
thiswillendwhentheSuperBowl'sover,shutthewomanupforheaven'ssake."Does
thisendwhentheSuperBowlends?
Yiota:Thisisaproblemeveryday,everywhere.
Cindy:DiditbeginwiththeSuperBowl?
Yiota:Absolutelynot.Itdoesn'tbeginandendwithanyofthebigsportseventsbyany
means.Again,it'sgreatifthereisfocusaroundtheSuperBowl,additionaldiscussions
andthingsofthatsort.Everydayisadayweshouldbediscussingthisproblem.Ifthe
SuperBowlcreatesandgeneratesadditionaldiscussion,Ithinkthat'swonderful.Butit
willgoonthenextday.It'sgoingonnow.Itwillgoonnextyearaswell.Noconnections
certainlytotheSuperBowl,perse.
Cindy:That'sbeenpartofourpushoutWest,istomakepeopleunderstandthisisjusta
catalystandnotthereason,andnottheendalltoallofthis.Itisonlythebeginning.We
arefortunate,orperhapsnotfortunate,inArizona.InthemonthofJanuarywehadfiveor
sixmajorevents,ProBowl,SuperBowl,theWasteManagementOpen,the
BarrettJacksonCarShowandaboutfourothermajoreventsjustinthemonthofJanuary.
We'reastatethat,quitefrankly,shouldhavegottenouracttogethersooner.Ibelieve
we'regoingtohavetheabilityinArizonatonotonlytrackthis,buttocollectthedata
that'sgoingtomeansomethingdowntheroadwiththis.Wealreadyareintheprocessof
doingthat,ASUandothers.

p.12

Theexcitingpartofthisisthatpeoplearenowbeginningtounderstandit'sreal.Not
everyone'sthereyet.Butlawenforcement,ourlargebusinesses,theHotelMotel
Association,allthosekindsofthingsarenowcomingtogether.That'swhereIbringupto
youtheinfluences.Howcantheairlineshelpus?Howcanhotelshelpus?Howcanthe
NFLhelpus?Howcanalltheseorganizationsthataremixedupinjustthisoneevent,
howcantheyhelp,anddoitinthelongterm?
Yiota:Ithink,again,awarenessisnumberone.Educationoftheiremployees,especially
ifwe'retalkingabouthotels.
Cindy:Trainingandeducation,yeah.
Yiota:Trainingandeducation.Howdoyouidentifythisscenariomaybegoingon?
Whatdoyoudowhenyouseeit?Howdoyoufeelcomfortablethinkingwellthatmaybe
isacustomerofthehotel,Ishouldn'traiseanissue,orit'sacustomeroftheairline,etc.
Tounderstandthecriminalaspectofthisandtheneedtoreallygetinvolved.
Ithinkstickingwithitisthebigissue.Again,wonderfulifindividualsorcorporations
coalescearoundtheSuperBowltomakeabigpushandtoofferservices.Butithastobe
sustained.It'snotaproblemthat'sgoingtogoawayafterwards.
Cindy:Right.ItellpeoplewhenItalktothem,IusetheoldTSAadage.Ican'tbelieve
I'magreeingwithTSAonanything.Butanyway,TSA,seesomething,saysomething.
Wehavetriedtojustbangthathome,atleastonhomeonthis,becausewe'renot
encouragingpeopletobecomevigilantes,byanystretch.Butifyouseesomethingthatin
yourgutyouknowiswrongorsomething'snotrightwithit,tellsomebodyinchargeor
tellsomebodythathastheabilitytoperhapsdosomethingaboutitorlookintoit.
That'sbeenIthinkforus,anyway,that'sabighurdleforus.Butit'sgoingtobe
interestingtoseehowthisallplaysoutduringthistimeframe,themonthofJanuaryand
afterwards.Becausekeepingit,likeyousaid,keepingitrolling,keepingitexciting,
keepingitonthefrontpageisreallyimportantinthis.
Yiota:Absolutely.It'sessential.
Cindy:Backpage.Wouldyoudescribetothosepeopleintheaudiencethatdon'tknow
backpageisandwhattheydo?Wouldyouexplainindepth?Iknowyou'vementionedit,
butalittlebit...
Yiota:Sure.Backpageisanonlineclassifiedadvertisingwebsite.Itissimilarto
Craigslist,whichsomeofyoumightbeawareof.
Cindy:Letmeinterrupthere.I'mjustsoproudbecausethetwoownersofthisarein
Phoenix,Arizona.Justthrowingthatoutforyou.
Yiota:Itisawebsitewhereonecouldconsidergoingandlocatingtheirstateandcityif

p.13

they'refromamajorcity,andthenlocatingadvertisementsfor,perhaps,tobuyasofa,or
perhapstobuyconcerttickets,orsellacar.Or,inthecaseespeciallyofbackpageand
giventheiradvolume,tobuysomeoneforsex.
Theyhaveaverylargeescortsectionthatisbrokendownintodifferenttypesof
activities.Butpredominantlyitisasitewhereyoucanclickonlink,afterlink,afterlink.
Theywillbeadsofindividuals,girlsandboys,adultsandchildren,whoaredressedin
extremelyrevealingclothing,ifverylittleclothingalso,inhighlysexuallysuggestive
positionswithtextdescribingthatindividualandwhattheymightbesellingtoyou.
There'softenacodedpriceofsomesortaswellbythehalfhourorbythehour,etc.If
youtakeawebsitelikebackpageyouwillseeafewadsforsofas,andafewadsfor
concerttickets,andatremendousvolumeofescortads.
It'salsoawebsitewhereyoucanpostforfreetosellyoursofa,ortosellyourconcert
tickets,buttheychargeforescortadsandtheychargebythemarket.Ifyou'reinNew
YorkCitythemarketrules,andthat'sanexpensivead.Ifyou'reinasmalltowninOhio,
let'ssay,it'sacheaperad.Theygobythemarketaccordingtothegeographiclocation,
andtheadsarequitesteepandthatiswheretheymaketheirrevenue.
Cindy:IsitsimilartowhatCraiglistis?
Yiota:Itissimilarinconceptandlayout.
Cindy:What'sdifferent?
Yiota:WhatisprimarilydifferentisthatseveralyearsagoCraigslist,undersomepublic
pressure,andontheheelsofahearingontheHilltoquestionthemabouttheirbusiness
practices,closeddowntheiradultsection.Whichwashavingatremendousproblemnot
onlywithprostitutionadsingeneral,butwithchildsextraffickingads,withchildren
beingtraffickedinlargevolumesonthesite.
Alotofthattrafficseemstohave,ifyoutrackthetimeframes,movedtobackpageand
thatareahasgrowntremendouslyonbackpage.Theystillhaveafullblownescort
sectionwheretheyallowthoseadstoproliferate.
Cindy:Canyoudescribetoouraudiencewhatbackpage'sexcuseisforthisandwhat
theysaythey'redoingtopreventthis?
Yiota:Backpagehas,throughthemedia,andhearings,andreallyotherpublicoccasions,
reallycastthemselvesinthelightofbeing,inthewordsofoneoftheirofficials,the
sheriffoftheInternet.Soacompanythatisdoingeverythingtheypossiblycantoprotect
children,toscreenadstoreporttolawenforcementortoassistlawenforcementwhen
theremightbeillegalactivitygoingonontheirwebsiteandtoreallybeashelpfulas
possibleregardingtheseads.

p.14

Thatishowtheybalancewhentheyarecriticizedquiteoftenaboutthecontentontheir
websiteistheysay,"Weactuallyarehelpingthesituation."
Cindy:Theissuethatthey'vehiddenbehindforsolongisthatoftheconstitutionand
freedomofspeech,whichisatoughone.That's,clearlyweallbelieveinthat,butinthis
caseIthinkit'sarealdiceyone.What'spending?Iknowwehavetwosetsoflawsuits
goingoninWashingtonandMassachusetts,right?
Yiota:Yes.It'sareallyfascinatingdevelopment.We'vetalkedaboutlegislationonthe
traffickingissue,stateandfederal.We'vetalkedaboutgrassrootscommunityawareness.I
thinkthere'sathirdreallyinterestingfrontherewhichisemergingwhichiscivil
litigation.
Therearetwopendingcasesrightnowthathavebeenfiledagainstbackpagebymultiple
victims.They'reallwomen,inthisscenario,butwhoweretraffickedasyounggirlson
backpageforsexforanextendedperiodoftime.There'sonecasethat'spendinginthe
WashingtonStateSupremeCourt,andthere'sonecasethatwasjustfiledin
MassachusettsFederalCourt.
Bothofthesecasesareverydifferent.Theydefinitelyaretryingtoaddresstheissuesand
thebusinesspracticesofbackpage.AsMrs.McCainnoted,tonotallowbackpagetohide
behindtheirfreedomofspeechorwhatIwouldalsorefertoastheCommunications
DecencyAct,whichisastatutewhichgenerallyprotectsInternetserviceproviders,but
notallowthemtohidebehindthatanymore.
Cindy:Iagree.Oneofthethingsthatwasmentionedtomefromsomepeopleoutin
Arizonawas,whataboutatleastgettingtogetherwiththecreditcardcompaniesand
workingtogethertostoptheuseofcreditcardsonthesesitesthatarespecificallyofsale
ofwomenandchildren.Doesthathaveanyabilitytogoanywhere?Orwhat'syour
opinion?
Yiota:Ithinkit'satremendouslypowerfulidea.Theychargefortheseads.Weknow
that,andthecreditcardisthevehiclethattheyusetodothat.Infairness,thecreditcard
canalsobeusedonotherpartsofthesite.ThisiswheresomeoftheseInternetwebsites
getverydifficultwhenyou'rethinkingaboutregulatingorcarvingoutthebadactivity
that'sonthem.ButIthinkit'sanideathathasatremendousamountofpotential.
Cindy:Oneofthethingsthatweweretalkingaboutbackstagewas,shementionedthem
hidingbehindandcallingthemselvesthesheriffoftheInternet.Theyproposetosaythat
theycheckallofthesepurchasedadsforage,forpropriety,for/makingsurethat
everything'sinline,thatallofthesechildrenareprotected,andthattheyactuallyturnthe
informationovertolawenforcement.
NowIknowthattheyturnsomethingsovertoyou.Canyoutalkalittlebitaboutthat?
Yiota:Sure.Backpageisoneofthecompaniesthatdoesmakevoluntaryreportsto

p.15

NCMEC.Theyarenotunderanobligationtodoso.Theydomakereportstousofads
thatforsomereasontheybelievehasaconnectiontochildsextrafficking.Theytypically
don'tprovideusmuchmoreinformationthanthat.
Weofcoursewillworkthatreportaswewouldanyotherandmakeitavailabletolaw
enforcement.Buttheydotalkalotabouttheirmoderation.Howtheyhavewordsearches
andblockcertainwordsandblockcertainimages,andage,andthatsortofthing.But
theydon'thaveanyageverificationwhatsoeveronthewebsite.
Therearecertainmeasureswhichtheycertainlycouldadopttodrasticallydiminishthe
amountofchildsextraffickingontheirsite,andtheyhavesimplychosennotto.
Cindy:They'vemadeaconsciousdecisionnotto.
Yiota:Absolutely.
Cindy:IbelievethattheyshouldgothewayofCraigslistandtakeitcompletelydown.
Notthewholewebsite,buttakethesexadscompletelyoffthesite.Butthey'renot
listeningtome.Idon'tunderstand.They'renotlistening.
Listen,we'vegotafewminutesleft.I'dliketoopenittoquestions,ifyouallwouldlike.
Pleasewhenyoustandupandtalk,dowehavemicrophonesoranything?Raiseyour
handandintroduceustoyou,please,andwhoyou'rehererepresentingornot
representing.Righthere.Waitforthe...Rightthere.Thankyou.
MikeBerry:MynameisMikeBerry.Goodevening,Mrs.McCain.Iappreciatewhat
you'rehearing.Ihavetraveledthroughoutthecountryandfamiliarizedmyselfallacross
thestatesofvariousorganizations.Itisaveryentangledthing.
OneofthequestionsIhaveforyouis,whatisbeingdonewiththetwoslaveships,
FacebookandGoogle?That'sthefirstone.IthinkIhavemoreconcernwhenyoutalk
abouttakingdownbackpage.TheyonlyhavetoshiftovertoMarkZuckerberg'sgroup,
andthereareseveralpeoplethataretryingtoputpressureonhimtonotaddressthis.
Theysay,"Well,wecan'tgetourhandsonthis."
ThesecondquestionIhaveis,isthatmostorganizationsacrossthecountryarenot
addressingtherescuesides,whathappenstothechildrenafterwards.Theykeepgoing
afterthejohnsortheykeepgoingafterthepimps,whenactuallywehavepeoplewho
havecomeforwardthatarenowadmittingto,I'mtalkingaboutthatthisisabigbusiness
runbymadamsandlargepimp...
There'sactuallyapimpaward,ceremony,liketheAcademyAwardsinChicago.They've
giventwomadams,oneoutofWashingtonandanotherinChicago,thepimpoftheyear
awardfortraffickingchildren.
Cindy:OnlyinAmerica.

p.16

Mike:Myquestiontoyouiswhyarewestayingdownontheselowerlevelswhenthere
arelegislativepiecesthatcouldbeaddressedandaddressingthisfromabusiness
standpoint.Becauseyou'vegotFacebook,you'vegotGoogle,you'vegotthisoperation
whichisrunbythecrimefamiliesandwhoever.Idon'tseeanymovementonafederal
level,aswellasastatelevel,togoafterthesecorporations.
Cindy:I'llanswerfromtheNGOlevel,andthenifyou'dliketotakeacrackatsomeof
this.Firstofall,thankyouforyourquestion.TheFacebookaspectandtheGoogle
aspect,I'vehaddirectdiscussionswiththem,andI'maverysmallcogallofthis.I'vehad
directdiscussionswiththemnotonlyonstoppingthis,butparticipatinginfixingthis.
Google,forinstance.WhenyouGooglepimponGoogle,whatcomesup?Theseguys
dressedinfursandCadillacs.Theyglamorizebeingapimp.NowIrealizewecan't
controlinformation,butmaybeoneortwoofthosepicturescouldbesomelousyguy
that'sgottattoosandhe'sinjail.Maybesomething.It'sjustachanginginattitudes.You
knowwhatI'msaying?
ButIcanassureyouthatthewomanthatisinchargeofFacebookisalloverthisandshe
isahugeantislaveryperson.Restassured,therearepeopleattopthatgetitandthey
wanttofixit.That'swithFacebook,Imean.Google,Ibelieveisthesameway.They're
notinthistoharmanybody.
It'sadifficult,slowtransition.Becauseit'schangingmindsets,it'schangingattitudes.It's
alsoworkingundertheguidanceofwhatwebelieveisafreeandfaircountrythat
believesintheflowofinformation.Ileavethose,youaskedaboutfederallegislation.I
amsorrythatoursenatorisnothere,becauseIwouldreallyliketohaveheardthat
answerfromher.Doyouhaveanythingtoaddtothatfromthelegislativeaspect?
Yiota:Sure.Ithinkthereareattemptsandcertainlydiscussionabouthowtoapproach
thisfrom,perhapsabusinesssense,aregulatorysenseaswellperhaps.TheInternetis
fairlynew,really,aslet'ssayanindustryatlarge.Itisfacingperhapsincreasing
regulationinsomeways,butit'sreallycraftingitfromthebeginning.
Theseareveryhardconcepts,andasMrs.McCainnoted,it'sacorebeliefinthiscountry
thattheInternetshouldbefreeandopeninmanyways.Ithinkthat'ssomething
everybodyisfor,withsomeprotectivemeasures.It'showtoputthoseinplacethat'svery
difficult.
Iknowthere'ssomependinglegislationthatgoestowardsaddressingcompaniesin
particularontheSAVEAct,asit'scalled,that'sbeensponsoredbySenatorKirkand
others.Verynewstill,probablysubjecttoatremendousamountofdiscussion.Butthere
aresomeverygoodattemptsbeingmadetoaddresstheissuefromabusinessmanneras
well.
Cindy:Ithinkthemorethatwegeneratediscussionandconcernonourparttoour
legislators,thefurtherwe'regoingtogetwiththis.Reasonablelegislation,also,that

p.17

makessenseinallofthis.It'sareallyhardissue.Youobviouslyworkintheissue.It'sa
verydifficultissue.
Isometimeshavetoworkbeyonditnotbeingawomen'sissue,numberone,andnumber
two,definingtoourmalegroupsouthere,Ineedhelpfromthemenhere.Thisisamen's
issuetoo.IscoldmymenathomewhenItalktothem.
Notliterally,butweneedyourhelp.Youneedtobetheonesthattellyourfellowmenin
theneighborhood,"Thisiswrong.Realmendon'tbuychildren.Theydon'tbuychildren."
Butyouhavetotellthemthat,andyouhavetobelieveinitwhenyoutellthem.Ireally,I
trytodomybest.I'monlyonepersoninallofthis,butwe'llseewhatwecando.Yes,
ma'am.Couldyoustandupand,thankyou.
BarbaraDello:MynameisBarbaraDelloandIwasaschoolnurse,andIhaveseven
children,andI'veheardalotofgossipaboutthisissuethathashauntedme,soIcame
today.IwantedtoaskyouifthesethingsIheararecorrect.IliveintheNewYorkarea
andthegamblingcasinosareverypopular,andifthekidsgetintodebtthey'reexpected
toworkitoff.
Kidsdon'twanttotalk...
Cindy:Aretheseunderagechildrenthataregambling?Isthatwhatyou'retalkingabout?
Barbara:Well,they'rehighschoolkids.Yes,sothatwouldbe,mostofthemwouldbe
underage,yeah.Ormaybe,Idon'tknow.Maybeit'stheir18thbirthdaytheyallgo,or
theygowithfakeIDs.Idon'tknow.Theydon'twanttotalkbecauseofthreatsofbodily
harm,hurtingsomeoneyoulove,threatsofhavingsomethingonyoulikepicturesor
somethingyou'vedone,orthey'vebeengivendrugstotakeofftheedgeandthenthey
needthedrugs.
Ialsocalledthepoliceonceaboutamarginalizedchildandsaidtheyweremissingand
theysaidtheydon'tlookforthemfor24to48hours,whichseemsunbelievabletome.
Andthefactthatithappenstoboysaswellasgirls.Ijustwantedtoaskifthat's
consistentwithwhatyouguysknow.
Cindy:Wouldyoutakethat?
Yiota:Sure.I'mnotfamiliarwiththegamblingmentionthatyoumadeatthebeginning
ofyourremarks,butfranklyalltheotherfactorsthatyounotedforwhychildrenperhaps
don'textricatethemselvesfromthesesituationsordon'tseekassistanceevenwhenthey
arebroughtin,perhapsfromastingoperation.Thethreatstofamily,threatsto
themselves.Perhapsadrugorsubstanceabuseissueanecdotallyareallthingsthatwe
haveheardandseenincasesaswell.
Childrenareoftenreallyschooledinastorytotellwhentheyarepickedupbylaw
enforcement.Specificallytold,forinstancenotobviouslytoreleasetheirpimp'sortheir

p.18

trafficker'sname.Again,goingbacktotheorganizationlevelofthis,there'saplanin
placeforwhenthechildgetsarrested,whatitistheydosothattheygetoutsoonand
that'stheendofit.Threatsareatremendouspartofitaswell.
Youmentionedthelastaspectaboutboys.Idon'tthinkthatcanbeunderstatedenough.
Boysandtransgenderchildrenaswellareoftenreallytheforgottenvictims.Wethinkof
girls.Girlscertainlyarethemajorityofreportsthatweseeandthatwereadaboutinthe
news,butagainanecdotally,historicallyNCMEChasseenaboutonepercentofchildsex
traffickingreportsconcerningboys.Inthepastcoupleofyearsthathasincreasedtofour
percent.
Again,perhapsanincreaseinawarenessthatboyscanbevictimsofthiscrime,andjust
awarenessofthecrimeingeneral.ButIthinkit's,again,justarefinementofhowwe're
lookingatthisproblemasacommunity.
Cindy:Intheback,stripe.Striped.I'msorry.Stripedshirt.
OliviaEnos:Hi.I'mOliviaEnos.IworkattheHeritageFoundationasaresearch
assistantintheAsianstudiescenter.MycolleagueandIarecurrentlyworkingonapaper
onhumantraffickinginAsia.Whileweareprimarilyfocusingonaninternationalaspect
tothings,werecognizethatthestatedepartmentintheUShasplayedareallyhugerole
inbringingaboutawareness.Alsothatthere'sarolefortheUSinmodelinggoodhuman
traffickingpolicyfortherestoftheworld.
Oneparticularareathatwe'vebeenstudyingisthevitalimportanceoflocallaw
enforcement.Wouldyouguysbeabletolistacoupleofreallyeffectivelocallaw
enforcementprogramsthatareworkingeffectivelytoprosecutetraffickersandensure
thatvictimsaregettingtheproperrestitutionandrehabilitationthattheyneed?
Cindy:Goahead,ifyou'dliketotakethat.I'vegotsometoo,sogoahead.
Yiota:[laughs]Sure,wecaneachaddafew.Onceyougodowntothestateorlocal
level,Ithinkit'samazingthevarietyofapproachesthatpeopleimplement.It's
communitydrivenaswellasresourcedrivenquitehonestlyaswell.Buttherearesome
statesandcitiesthathavecreatedreallywhatyoumightcallatraffickingcourt.Judges
thatarereallyfocusingontheseissuesare,again,veryinvestedindiversionaryprograms
andinsafeharborconceptsaswell.
Thatisamodelthathasbeensuccessfulinsomelocalitiestoreallystreamlinetheprocess
sothatyou'renotinfrontofajudgeorwithaprosecutorwhomaynotbefamiliarwith
interviewingthesevictims,orinhowtoshieldtheminprosecutionsandthatsortofthing.
Ithinkthatconcept,itdoesn'tworkeverywhere,butIthinkinsomecitieswherethey've
enactedthoseit'sverypromising.Itshowsahighlevelofeducationontheissue.
Cindy:IwouldgototheOrangeCounty,Californiapolicedepartment.Theyarepretty
remarkableinwhatthey'redoing.Takealookatwhatthey'redoing,andit'sanew

p.19

programforthem,relativelynewandthey'redoingabangupjobwithit.Thatwouldbe
mysuggestion.Wehavetimeforonemore.Yes,sir.
MarkLumpkins:Goodevening,everyone.MynameisMarkLumpkins.I'mastudent
atRooseveltState.I'mherewithmyteacher,Mr.Brown,andmyclassmate.Myquestion
is,howdoeshumantraffickingeffecttaxpayers?
Cindy:There'sawholelotofmoneythat'snotclaimed,becausethisisall,forthemost
part,acashonlybusiness,withtheexceptionofbackpageandthoselikethat.Themoney
thatisinvolvedinhumantraffickingandthecartelsthatcontrolhumantraffickingis
astronomical.
Thesearemoneys,likeImentionedearlier,thataregoingintothebadguys'pockets.
They'renotgoingintosustainingourroads,andbuildings,andallthiskindofstuff.It's
goingrightinthebadguys'pockets.
Fromataxstandpoint,there'snotaxesbeingpaidonit,Iassureyou.I'msureour
governmentwouldliketogetatitalittlebit,whichtheyshould.Anythingelse?
Mark:Thankyou,no.That'sallIhadtoask.
Cindy:Thanksforbeinghere.Thankyouforbringingyourstudents.Oh,OK,sorry.I
willsaythankyoutoallofyoubeforeKurtcomesbackup.We'llgetorganizedhere.But
forallofyou,Iknowthere'salotofyouintheaudiencethatparticipateinthisissue
daily.Iwanttothankyouforthat.We'reonlyonevoice,butboy,collectivelywecanget
atthis.
Iwanttothankyouforyourdaytodayworkinthisandallofthethingsthatyouendure
todothiskindofwork,andmostofallforyourdedicationanddevotiontoit.Youare
givingavoicetothevoiceless,andthat'sveryimportant.Kurt,andthankyou,Yiota,for
coming.Thankyou.
Yiota:Thankyouforhavingme.
[applause]
Kurt:Asyoucantell,thesearetwoverypowerful,verydetermined,veryinformed
advocatesforstoppingthispractice,andIwanttothankyoufordevotingyoureveningto
thisaswell.Please,asyougooutfromhere,dotalkaboutit.
Dosharewhatyou'velearnedhereorwhatyou'veheardabouthere.Lookintoit.Ithasto
beacommunitydrivenapproachtochange,andIthinkthat'swhatwe'rehearingfrom
Mrs.McCain,andMs.Souras.Thankyouagainforcoming,andplease,joinmeagainin
thankingthetwogreatspeakers.
Cindy:Beforeyouallleave,mayIsaythis?TheMcCainInstituteisnotathinktank.
We'readotank.We'reanactiontank,soeverythingthatweundertakehasapurposeand

p.20

awaytogetinvolvedwithit.That'swhatIencourageyoutodo.Obviously,weneedour
peopletothinkanddothesethingsforus,butweneedtogetactive,moreimportantly,
andthat'swherewerelyonyou.Thankyou.
[applause]

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