Starting Generators

Unlike the conventional generators that we use on land, a ships generator requires a special
procedure for starting and stopping it. Though not a very complex one, the process demands a
step-by-step system to be followed. Missing even a single step might lead to failure in starting or
stopping the generator and can even lead to black-out, a situation which everyone on ship tries
their best to stay away from. In this article, we bring to you an accurate, step by step procedure
for starting and stopping a generator on a ship.

Generator starting procedure
Automatic Start
1. This method is only possible if sufficient amount of starting air is available. The air
valves and interlocks are operated like in the turning gear operation.
2. In this method the operator has nothing to do, for the generator starts itself depending
on the load requirement.
3. However during the Maneuvering process and in restricted areas, the operator has to
start by going into the computer based Power Management System (pms). Once inside
the system, the operator needs to go to the generator page and click start.
4. In PMS system, the automation follows sequence of starting, matching voltage and
frequency of the incoming generator and the generator comes on load automatically.
5. In case of a blackout condition or a dead ship condition, the operator might have to
start the generator manually.
Manual start
The manual process is totally different from the automatic start system. The following steps need
to be followed:
1. Check that all the necessary valves and lines are open and no interlock is active on the
generator before operating.
2. Generally before starting the generator the indicator cocks are opened and small air
kick is given with the help of the starting lever. After this, the lever is brought back to the
zero position, which ensures there is no water leakage in the generator. The leakage can
be from cylinder head, liner or from the turbocharger .
3. The step is performed by putting the control to local position and then the generator is
started locally.
4. In case any water leakage is found, it is to be reported to a senior officer or chief
engineer and further actions are to be taken.
5. It is to note that this manual starting procedure is not followed generally on Ums
ships, but it is a common procedure on manned engine room.
6. In engine rooms, which have water mist fire fighting system installed, this procedure
is not followed because when the engine is given a manual kick with open indicator
cocks, small amount of smoke comes out of the heads which can lead to false fire alarm,
resulting in release of water mist in the specified area.
7. After checking the leakage, in case of any, the indicator cocks are closed and
generator is started again from the local panel.
8. The generator is then allowed to run on zero or no load condition for some time for
about 5 minutes.
9. After this the generator control is put to the remote mode.
10. If the automation of the ship is in working after putting in remote mode the generator
will come on load automatically after checking voltage and frequency parameters.
11. If this doesnt happen automatically, then one has to go to the generator panel in
Engine control room and check the parameters.
12. The parameters checked are voltage and the frequency of the incoming generator.
13. The frequency can be increased or decreased by the frequency controller or governor
control on the panel.
14. The incoming generator is checked in synchroscope to see if its running fast or slow,
which means if frequency is high or low.
15. In synchroscope, it is checked that the needle moves in clockwise and anticlockwise
direction.
16. Clockwise direction means it is running fast and anti-clockwise means it is running
slow.
17. Generally the breaker is pressed when the needle moves in clockwise direction very
slowly and when it comes in 11o clock position.
18. This process is to be done in supervision of experienced officer if someone is doing
for the first time, for if this is done incorrectly the blackout can happen which can lead to
accidents, if the ship is operating in restricted areas.
19. Once this is done, the generator load will be shared almost equally by the number of
generators running.
20. After this the parameters of the generator are checked for any abnormalities.
Stopping procedure
Automatic Procedure
In this procedure the generator is stopped by going into the PMS system in the computer and
pressing the stop button to bring stop the generator.
1. This is to be followed only when two or more generators are running.
2. Even if you trying to stop the only running generator it will not stop due to inbuilt
safety. The safety system thus prevents a blackout.
3. When the stop button is pressed the load is gradually reduced by the PMS and after
following the procedure the generator is stopped.
Manual Procedure
1. In this procedure the generator to be stopped, is put off load from the generator panel
in the Engine control room.
2. The load is reduced slowly by the governor control on the panel.
3. The load is reduced until the load comes on the panel below 100 kw.
4. When the load is below 100kw the breaker is pressed and the generator is taken off-
load.
5. The generator is allowed to run for 5 minutes in idle condition and the stop button is
pressed on the panel.
6. The generator is then stopped

Generator Set Motor Starting
Motor starting is an important issue which must be considered when applying a generator set.
The high current that motors draw when starting causes voltage dips in the system. This may
require oversizing the generator or applying motor starting techniques maintain this voltage dip
at acceptable levels for your system and its attached components.
Motors, either loaded or unloaded, draw several times rated full load current when starting. This
is termed locked rotor current or starting kVA (SkVA). SkVA is calculated from locked rotor
current like this:
SkVA = V x A x 1.732 / 1000
In-rush current to the motor causes a rapid drop of generator output voltage. In most cases, a 30
percent voltage dip is acceptable, depending on the equipment you already have on line. The
degree of dip must be identified by an oscilloscope, since mechanical recorders are too slow.
Motor Starting Options
If you have an application where motor starting is a concern, consider the following:
Change the starting sequence, with largest motors first. More SkVA is available, although
it does not provide better voltage recovery time.
Use reduced voltage starters. This reduces kVA required to start a giver motor. If youre
starting under load, remember this starting method also reduces starting torque.
Specify oversized generators.
Use wound rotor motors, since they require lower starting current. Wound motors typical
cost more, however.
Provide clutches so motors start before loads are applied. While SkVA demand is not
reduced, the time interval of high kVA demand is shortened.
Improve the system power factor. This reduces the generator set requirement to produce
reactive kVA, making more kVA available for starting.
Use a motor generator set. A motor drives the generator which, in turn, supplies power to
the motor to be started. This system runs continuously and current surge, caused by the
starting of the equipment motor, is isolated from the remainder of the load.
Watch Voltage Dip
Motor starting is affected by motor and generator design, and load on the motor. Initial voltage
dip depends mostly on motor and generator windings. Addition of series boost to the regulator or
use of a permanent magnet exciter will not significantly decrease this dip.
The magnitude of voltage dip tolerable depends on the type of equipment on line. Motor starting
contactors may open if voltage drops below 65 percent of rated.
Motors draw starting currents to eight times normal running current. Preloads on motors do not
vary maximum starting currents but do determine time required from motors to achieve rated
speed and current to drop back to normal running value. If motors are excessively loaded, they
may not start or may run at reduced speed.
Motors connected directly to high inertia centrifugal devices or loaded reciprocating compressors
will cause severe frequency excursions and lengthy motor run up. Comparing starting current
between loaded and unloaded motors shows the extended time loaded motors demand high
current.
When specifying motor loads, skVA and acceptable system voltage dip to a gen set specifier, it is
important to ensure that you are evaluating the instantaneous voltage dip of the generators
voltage on the system. Instantaneous voltage dip is the actual maximum voltage dip experienced
when a motor load is applied.
Some gen set manufacturers state voltage dip in terms of sustained voltage dip. Sustained
voltage dip is calculated by ignoring the actual voltage dip for the first few cycles of motor
starting, where the voltage dip is highest, and then averaging the voltage dip during part of the
recovery period. This significantly understands the actual voltage dip any equipment attached to
the system experiences and may cause system and equipment problems due to higher
instantaneous voltage dip.
If you have motor starting questions, please contact us. We can help you avoid serious
equipment problems
What are the procedures to synchronize
generators in parallel?
You adjust the voltage and RPM on the second generator to be slightly higher than the first. How
much higher depends on the system and generator design.
While monitoring a synchrometer, you pick a relative phase position (again, depending on
design) and close the second generator to the first at the selected moment in phase/time.
You immediately monitor and adjust power and vars to make sure the second generator is not too
over or under loaded.

<<>>

Paralleling generators

The following is for three phase manual paralleling of two generators. Today's control systems
will sense and do this operation automatically but the general process is the same. There are a
couple of factors that have to be met when paralleling generators. The process of paralleling
generators is called synchronization. What this means is that both generators have to be in phase
with each other and running at the same speed. The generator that is running is called the lead
generator and the one that you are trying to parallel is called the lag generator. There are two
types of instrumentation used in synchronising, one is a light bank and the other a bit more
sophisticated is a synchroscope meter. The synchroscope indicates whether the lag generator is
faster, slower or in phase with the bus. The lag generator is brought up to speed just under the
RPM of the lead generator. The synchroscope will be revolving very slowly in a clockwise
rotation at this point. When the hand on the synchroscope reaches the 11 o'clock position the
switch is thrown to bring the generator on to the bus tying the two generators together.

The light system of paralleling generators has lamps hooked in series and connected between the
hot lead of the lead generator and the hot lead of the lag generator. When one generator is
running faster than the other one, the lights will blink off and on as the generators come in and
out of phase with each other. Adjusting the throttle of the lag generator and bringing it closer to
synchronise speed will cause the lights will start to pulsate slower and slower until they go off
for a period of seconds and then on for a period of seconds. At this point the two generators are
electrically paralleled. Count the time between on off on of the lights. At half the off time (zero
voltage) throw the switch and the generators will lock together, the two generators will be
running in parallel with each other. Manually to keep them paralleled requires a bit of work, as
the faster generator will try and take the load and motor the other one. This is where a governor
is a great asset. If the generators are tied together out of phase two things could happen. The least
problematic would be the generators breaker will trip. The second and most dangerous is if the
lag generator is just a little bit out of phase when the switch is thrown, then the generator will be
jerked into phase lock as momentary heavy current flows between the two generators. The
sudden loading of the generator has been known to break crankshafts of the engine driving it.
How do you parallel two AC generators?

their voltages must have the same value, the same frequency, and the same phase (ie, the voltage
signal provided by one generator mustn't be shift phased compared to the signal of the other
one).

Generally, you are parallelling a generator into a larger grid. What you do is set the new
generator for slightly higher voltage than the grid and slightly higher frequency than the grid, and
then monitor their phase angle with a synchrometer. As the new generator comes into and out of
phase with the grid, you get ready to close the breaker and at the same time be ready to close the
steam bypass valves on the condenser. At the correct point, usually 12:00 leading, you close the
breaker and close the bypass valve. Closing the breaker locks the generator into the grid, while
closing the bypass valve forces the generator to take some load. Then you adjust the frequency of
the generator to trim to the desired MVars. Yes; the generator is locked, so adjusting the
frequency is actually not possible, but this does affect MVars, and you want the correct
MW/MVA/MVar load on the generator as quickly as possible, to avoid destabilization and
possible damage.
An electric generator or electric motor consists of a rotor spinning in a magnetic field. The magnetic field
may be produced by permanent magnets or by field coils. In the case of a machine with field coils, a
current must flow in the coils to generate the field, otherwise no power is transferred to or from the
rotor. The process of generating a magnetic field by means of an electric current is called excitation.

Excitation in generators

A self-excited shunt-wound DC generator is shown on the left, and a magneto DC generator with
permanent field magnets is shown on the right. The shunt-wound generator output varies with the
current draw, while the magneto output is steady regardless of load variations.

A separately excited DC generator with bipolar field magnets. Separately excited generators like this are
commonly used for large-scale power transmission plants. The smaller generator can be either a
magneto with permanent field magnets or another self-excited generator.
For a machine using field coils, which is most large generators, the field current must be
supplied, otherwise the generator will be useless. Thus it is important to have a reliable supply.
Although the output of a generator can be used once it starts up, it is also critical to be able to
start the generators reliably. In any case, it is important to be able to control the field since this
will maintain the system voltage.
Amplifier principle
Except for permanent magnet generators, a generator produces output voltage proportional to the
magnetic field, which is proportional to the excitation current; if there is no excitation current
there is zero voltage. A generator can thus be considered as an amplifier: a small amount of
power may control a large amount of power. This principle is very useful for voltage control: if
the system voltage is low, excitation can be increased; if the system voltage is high, excitation
can be decreased. A synchronous condenser operates on the same principle, but there is no
"prime mover" power input; however, the "flywheel effect" means that it can send or receive
power over short periods of time. To avoid damage to the machine through erratic current
changes, a ramp generator is often used.
Separate excitation

Alternator of 1930s diesel generating set, with excitation dynamo above
For large, or older, generators, it is usual for a separate exciter dynamo to be operated in
conjunction with the main power generator. This is a small permanent-magnet or battery-excited
dynamo that produces the field current for the larger generator.
Self excitation
Modern generators with field coils are self-excited, where some of the power output from the
rotor is used to power the field coils. The rotor iron retains a magnetism when the generator is
turned off. The generator is started with no load connected; the initial weak field creates a weak
voltage in the stator coils, which in turn increases the field current, until the machine "builds up"
to full voltage.
Starting
Self-excited generators must be started without any external load attached. An external load will
continuously drain off the buildup voltage and prevent the generator from reaching its proper
operating voltage.
Field flashing
If the machine does not have enough residual magnetism to build up to full voltage, usually
provision is made to inject current into the rotor from another source. This may be a battery, a
house unit providing direct current, or rectified current from a source of alternating current
power. Since this initial current is required for a very short time, it is called "field flashing".
Even small portable generator sets may occasionally need field flashing to restart.
The critical field resistance is the maximum field circuit resistance for a given speed with
which the shunt generator would excite. The shunt generator will build up voltage only if field
circuit resistance is less than critical field resistance. It is a tangent to the open circuit
characteristics of the generator at a given speed
Power Plant Generators - What is Excitation ?
written by: johnzactruba edited by: Lamar Stonecypher updated: 10/18/2009
Electric generators work on the principle of Faradays electromagnetic induction. The essential
part of this principle is the magnetic field. The magnetic filed is produced from a DC power
source from an Exciter that is part of the generator system. Read on ...
The main requirement for electricity generation as per the basic principle is a magnetic field. The
generator while producing electricity also has to produce this at a constant voltage for the
electrical system to work properly. Controlling the magnetic field controls the voltage output of
the generator.
How does one produce and control this magnetic field in a large generator?
The rotor or the field coils in a generator produce the magnetic flux that is essential to the
production of the electric power. The rotor is a rotating electromagnet that requires a DC ( Direct
Current) electric power source to excite the magnetic field. This power comes from an exciter.
DC Exciter
In earlier days, the exciter was a small DC generator coupled to the same shaft as the rotor.
Therefore, when the rotor rotates this exciter produces the power for the electromagnet. Control
of the exciter output is done by varying the field current of the exciter. This output from the
exiter then controls the magnetic field of the rotor to produce a constant voltage output by the
generator. This DC current feeds to the rotor through slip rings.
Static Exciter
In modern generators the exciters are static. The DC power for the electromagnet is from the
main generator output itself. A number of high power thyristors rectify the AC current to
produce a DC current which feeds to the rotor through slip rings. This eliminates the operation
and maintenance problems associated with having another rotating machine. Static exciters offer
a better control of the output than an electromechanical control.
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During start up, when there is no output from the generator, a large battery bank provides the
necessary power for excitation.
Brushless Exciter
Another method is the brushless system. In this system the armature of the exciter is on the rotor
shaft itself. The DC output of this armature, after rectification by solid-state devices, goes to the
rotor coils. Since the armature and rotor are on the same rotating shaft, this eliminates the need
for slip rings. Hence it reduces maintenance and operational requirements and thus improving
reliability.
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i want to know the relation between fuel control and excitation control in 9FA mark 6 and
who is the leader ? fuel increase first then excitation increase to maintain speed or
opposite , i want to know the procedure for load generation in turbine and generator as
GE manual speaking separately
Reply to this post...

3 out of 3 members thought this post was helpful...

Posted by CSA on 30 September, 2012 - 1:00 pm
Kamel,

SO many questions!

Let's begin at the beginning. A synchronous electrical machine (generator or motor) is
intended to be operated at a constant speed (synchronous speed). When the generator
rotor is rotated, the magnetic flux of the generator rotor induces a voltage in the generator
stator windings--called the generator terminal voltage.

When the speed of the generator rotor is constant (or at rated) and the excitation is
constant, the generator terminal voltage will be constant, or stable. The magnitude of the
generator terminal voltage is a function of the strength of the magnetic field of the
generator rotor--since the generator rotor is being rotated at a constant speed:
synchronous speed.

The exciter controls the strength of the rotor magnetic field, and the strength of the rotor
magnetic field controls the magnitude of the generator terminal voltage. (Again, we are
presuming the generator rotor is spinning at synchronous speed, which is also the rated
speed for the generator, for the purposes of our discussion.)

For all intents and purposes, the generator terminal voltage is usually held relatively
constant during normal operation. In fact, most synchronous electrical generators are
rated for a particular voltage, (for example, 11,500 Volts, or 11.5kV, or 13,800 Volts, or
13.8 KV), plus-or-minus 5%, meaning that the generator terminal voltage is only to be
operated within +/-5% of 11.5kV or +/-13.8kV.

That's a fairly small range, +/- 5%. And, again, it's kind of the intent to operate most
electrical machines (any kind of electrical machine) at, or very close to, a particular
voltage anyway. So, we're going to say that, in general, the generator terminal voltage
remains relatively constant--that is, it is relatively unchanging.

Again, to have a constant terminal voltage, the generator rotor magnetic field must be
held constant. And the exciter controls the strength of the generator rotor magnetic field.
So, that means the exciter will normally operate at a relatively constant, stable, output to
maintain a relatively constant, stable generator terminal voltage.

Now, when a synchronous generator and the prime mover (a GE-design heavy duty gas
turbine in your case) is synchronized to a grid in parallel with other generators and the
primer movers driving those generators, current can flow in the generator's stator
windings. To make more current flow "out" of the stator windings one increases the
torque produced by the prime mover. In your case, that means increasing the fuel flow-
rate to the turbine. The generator converts the torque to stator amperes.

The equation for electrical power for a three-phase machine is:

Power (Watts) = Volts * Amperes * (3^0.5) * (Power Factor)

For the time being, we are going to consider the Power Factor of our generator in this
example to be 1.0 and stable; constant; unchanging.

So, lets' define an operating condition: we are holding the generator terminal voltage
constant (by holding the generator rotor excitation constant), and we are presuming the
power factor to be 1.0, and unchanging. The square root of three is a constant (it
can't/doesn't change; it's always 1.7320).

So, to increase power, the only component of the power equation that can be changed is
the generator stator amperes. And, since a generator is a device for converting torque into
amperes, if we increase the torque being applied to the generator rotor, the amperes
flowing in the generator stator will increase. And, when the generator stator amperes
increase, then the power being produced by the synchronous generator will increase.

So, fuel equals torque, and torque equals amperes, and varying amperes varies the power
produced by the generator. So, to make more power, increase the fuel flow-rate. To make
less power, decrease the fuel flow-rate.

Oh, if it were ONLY that simple, though. As the amperes flowing in the generator stator
increase as the fuel flow-rate to the turbine increases, one of the effects is that the
magnetic field associated with the generator stator increases. (Remember: current
(amperes) flowing in a conductor produces a magnetic field.)

As the field associated with the generator stator increases, it "reacts" with the field of the
generator rotor. Some people like to describe the resultant interaction of the generator
stator's increasing magnetic field strength as decreasing, or weakening, the generator
rotor field strength. (At least that's how I was taught, and how I like to describe it; and
I'm doing the describing here. There are some people who like to use vectors and maths
to describe it in other ways, but, in essence what we have is an interaction between two
magnetic fields in the same space, and something has to "give" when one increases. No
matter how you "describe" it.)

Now, when the generator field strength decreases that causes the generator terminal
voltage to decrease. Oh--but we said we want to maintain the generator terminal voltage
relatively constant. What to do??? Increase the excitation, to increase the generator rotor
field strength to maintain the generator terminal voltage.

The exciter, when it's being operated in what's called "Automatic" or "AC" mode, is
monitoring the generator terminal voltage, and it adjusts the excitation as required to try
to maintain the generator terminal voltage setpoint set by the machine's operator. If the
terminal voltage goes down, the exciter will increase the excitation to try to maintain the
generator terminal; the opposite happens if the generator terminal voltage increases.

So, as a synchronous generator is loaded (by increasing the fuel flow-rate to a gas turbine
being used as a prime mover to provide torque to the generator rotor) if no action is taken
by the operator or the exciter control system then generator terminal voltage will decrease
below rated or desired. That's why it's required to increase excitation as the generator is
loaded to maintain something near rated generator terminal voltage.

Conversely, when a synchronous generator is being unloaded (be decreasing the amount
of fuel flowing to the gas turbine), if no action is taken to reduce the excitation the
generator terminal voltage will increase above rated or desired.

All of that is basically true for a stable or unchanging power factor, and we assumed it
was 1.0. Now, lets' presume that your generator is operating at 50% of rated power
output, stably, and that the power factor of your generator is 1.0 (which, coincidentally
means that the excitation being provided to the generator rotor by the exciter is exactly
equal to the amount required to make the generator terminal voltage equal to the grid
voltage with which the generator is synchronized). If the operator then increases the
excitation being applied to the generator rotor the Power Factor meter will drop below
1.0 in the Lagging direction. And the VAr meter will increase from 0.0 in the Lagging
direction.

Note that I did NOT say the operator had done anything to change the load
(watts/KW/MW) of the generator by changing the fuel flow-rate to the gas turbine
driving the generator--he only changed the generator excitation. And, I'm going to take
the specifics one step further--by saying that the unit is NOT being operated with Pre-
Selected Load Control enabled and active. The unit had been manually loaded to
approximately 50% of rated load without placing the Speedtronic in any kind of
automatic load control.

Essentially what the operator had done was to attempt to increase the grid voltage by
increasing the generator terminal voltage (sometimes called "boosting"), and while the
generator terminal voltage and the local grid voltage may have, in fact, increased slightly
what really happened is that reactive current began to flow in the generator stator
windings.

From a generator's perspective the reactive current is considered to be inductive and is
called lagging reactive current, or lagging VArs. If the operator continues to increase the
excitation being applied to the generator rotor, the Power Factor meter will continue to
decrease below 1.0, and the VAr meter will continue to increase above 0.0 in the Lagging
direction.

What's happening when the operator is increasing the excitation being applied to the
generator is that the total amount of energy that's being input to the generator is being
split between real power (watts/KW/MW) and reactive "power", and that the percentage
of real power being produced is decreasing. Power Factor is a measure of the amount of
real power being produced versus the total amount of power being applied to the
machine.

So, the reactive current flowing in the generator stator windings is controlled by
controlling the excitation being applied to the generator rotor. And the "real" power
flowing in the generator stator windings is controlled by the amount of torque being
applied to the generator rotor. It's really that simple

Now, lets' say the unit is operating at a stable power output and with a Power Factor of
1.0 (which means 0.0 VArs). After a while the operator looks up to see the Power Factor
meter has changed! It has decreased below 1.0. And, the VAr meter has increased above
0.0. Both meters are indicating in the Leading direction.

This means that grid system voltage has increased above the level it was previously
operating at, which means the excitation being provided to the generator is now not
sufficient to keep the generator terminal voltage equal to the grid voltage. This means
that reactive current is now flowing in the generator stator windings.

The operator was told to maintain a Power Factor of 1.0, and a VAr reading of 0.0 VArs.
What does the operator do to return the Power Factor meter to 1.0 and the VAr meter to
0.0?

He increases the excitation. He doesn't increase the fuel flow-rate; he increases the
excitation.

Fuel is watts, or KW, or MW. Fuel is REAL power.

Excitation is VArs. Excitation is REACTIVE power.

Finally, you brought up the subject of speed. A synchronous generator is supposed to be
operated at a constant speed, called synchronous speed. For a two-pole generator
operating on a 50 Hz system, that synchronous speed is 3000 RPM.

That's because the speed of an AC machine is directly proportional to the frequency of
the AC mains (the grid) with which it is connected. The formula is:

F = (P * N) / 120,

where F = Frequency, Hz,
P = Number of poles of the generator rotor,
N = RPM

When synchronous generators are operated in parallel with each other--when they are
SYNCHRONIZED with each other--they are all operating at the same frequency under
normal conditions. And because, nominally, optimally, allegedly, the system frequency is
constant (or relatively constant; meaning it changes relatively little and is relatively
stable) all synchronous generators, and the prime movers directly connected to the
synchronous generators, are all rotating at constant speeds that are directly
proportional to the frequency of the grid with which they are connected.

In reality, grid frequency in never exactly 50.00 Hz, and as grid frequency varies so do
the speeds of the generators and the prime movers directly connected to those generators.
But, for all intents and purposes--in most parts of the world--the frequency is relatively
stable and even though the frequency varies by hundredths or tenths of a Hz, the machine
speeds vary by an almost imperceptible amount that is directly proportional to the
frequency variation.

And, when the grid frequency disturbances are large, then generator and prime mover
speed variations are large.

That's because all of these machines are locked into synchronism with each other. And,
allegedly, supposedly, somewhere there is a grid regulator that is monitoring the load on
the grid and ensuring that the amount of generation on the grid exactly matches the
amount of load--which is what's required to make the system frequency exactly equal to
nominal (in your case, 50, or 50.0, Hz).

When the amount of load exceeds the amount of generation, then the frequency will
begin to decrease. When the amount of generation exceeds the amount of load the
frequency will begin to increase.

But, in any case, unless your prime mover is VERY large with respect to all of the other
generators on the grid with which it is synchronized, increasing the fuel flowing to the
gas turbine will not appreciably increase the speed of the turbine, and hence will not
appreciably increase the speed of the generator rotor, and hence will not appreciably
increase the frequency of the output of the generator. The speed of the generator rotor,
and of the Frame 9FA GE-design heavy duty gas turbine which is directly coupled
(connected) to the generator rotor, is controlled by the frequency of the grid with which it
is SYNCHRONIZED.

I keep emphasizing the work synchronized because it's important to understand that there
are very great magnetic forces at work in synchronous machines that keep the speed
directly proportional to frequency. Even though you increase the fuel flow-rate to the
turbine when the generator is synchronized to the grid, the speed of the turbine--and the
generator rotor--does NOT increase. The increased torque developed by the increased
fuel flow-rate is converted by the generator into increase stator amps, which takes us
back to the first formula in this response.

Which takes me to the end of my response.

Hope this helps!

Posted by Kamel on 1 October, 2012 - 12:57 pm
really thank you so much

i understood your explanation except for some doubts

first we you told turbine speed will remain equal to grid freq if synchronized , is this is by
control or this is generator property . as mechanically increasing fuel increases the speed
not the torque and torque should be applied externally so increasing fuel will intend to
increase turbine speed and generator will slow down it by applying torque , what actually
happening and dose excitation has any role in this torque (except for maintaining terminal
volt)??

sorry I'm confused because the common idea is that to get load we increase fuel so speed
intend to increase and in same time increase excitation witch increases magnetic field
witch increases the torque and keep the speed , is this is correct .

please explain in more details the sequence of loading between turbine and generator
(fuel and excitation)

what is the difference when increasing fuel between large prime mover and small one
relative to the grid .

if all prime movers capacity is same what is the difference.

again thank you for your help and your effort


Posted by CSA on 1 October, 2012 - 5:22 pm
Kamel,

A generator is a device for converting torque into amps. Wires are used to transmit those
amperes (torque) to devices located long distances from sources of torque (or the energy
used to produce that torque). Motors, and other devices that consume electricity
(including lights, and even computers) convert amps back into torque.

So, the generator(s) at your location may be pumping tens of thousands of liters of water
and lighting tens of home and allowing many people to send email and videos to others at
many locations very distant from the turbine(s) at your site. Electricity is just a means of
transmitting energy from one location to another location, or many locations, so that
useful "work" can be done at those locations without having to have bazillions of
generators at bazillions of locations around the world.

(What I haven't come to terms with yet is how computers convert amperes into useful
work. It sure seems I work for my computer these days, instead of my computer working
for me. Does anyone else feel like that? And where is torque involved in all of this
"work"? I know, heat has something to do with it, but I'm getting hot just thinking about
all the work I have to do filling out forms and workflows and such on my computer!)

Alternating current grids transmit power at a nominal, desired frequency. Frequency
control, and regulation, is a very important aspect of alternating current systems.

Think about it this way. You buy a television or DVD player, or even a pump to pump
water around your house or property, and it's rated for 50 Hz (or 60 Hz in some parts of
the world). When you plug it into the outlet in the wall at your home or apartment, the
expectation is that you will be receiving a nominal 50.0 Hz, with some very slight
variations. Not 51.2, or 49.3, or 48.2, or 50.4--but a nominal 50 Hz. The generators
connected to the grid supplying the power to that outlet in your home or apartment all
have to generating power at the same frequency. They can't be generating at wildly
different frequencies, with some device at your home or at some substation that converts
a bunch of different frequencies to 50.0 Hz. There is no such device in the electrical
systems of just about any country or part of the world (unless there are high-voltage DC
links, but that's a special case).

Producing electricity requires magnetism, and magnetic forces are also a result of current
flowing in conductors. In AC motors and generators, the magnetic forces created when
current flows in the stator windings seems to rotate around the stator, which is how
motors rotate and generators create the waveform that creates the "rotating" magnetic
field on the motor stators.

Excitation is what's used to create the magnetic field of the generator rotor. When current
is flowing in the generator stator windings there is another--a second--magnetic field
created. Now, you know what happens when you try to put the North poles of two
magnets together--they repel each other. And, you know what happens when the North
pole of one magnet comes into proximity with the South pole of another magnet--there is
a strong attraction.

It's exactly the same in a generator (or a motor, for that matter). With two magnetic fields
(one on the rotor and one on the stator), the North and South poles of each field attract
each other--and that's what keeps the rotor spinning at a speed that is directly
proportional to the frequency of the grid (that the generator stator is connected to).

When torque is being applied to the generator rotor, one of the things that happens is that
the prime mover (the 9FA in your case) is trying to twist the rotor and break that
magnetic attraction. The more torque being applied, the more "twist" on the load
coupling and generator rotor. You may have heard of "load angle"? Well, that's the
"twist", basically. As more torque is applied, the load angle increases.

(All of this can be explained in very great detail with vectors and maths, but that can be
very confusing if one doesn't understand what the maths and vectors are attempting to
describe. Ever see a Load Angle meter?)

Now, if the magnetic strength of the rotor isn't maintained sufficiently, then what can
happen is that the rotor "slips a pole"--and that means CATASTROPHIC damage to the
machine. Load couplings break; generator rotors get "bent", and turbine rotors can be
irreparably damaged when this happens. There are "loss of excitation" relays and other
protective relays to sense and anticipate this condition BEFORE the damage occurs.

"Slipping a pole" means that the attraction between the North pole of one field and the
South pole of another field is broken, and instantaneously the generator rotor increases
speed. As the speed increases the North pole of one magnetic field passes the North pole
of another magnetic field and very great repulsion occurs. This can cause the rotor to
want to stop instantaneously and reverse direction (which it can't do!), or to move even
faster past the revulsion until there is another North-South attraction, at which time the
generator rotor will want to slow down--again, instantaneously. There are very great
physical forces at work here--the torque from the prime mover, and magnetic forces, as
well.

Synchronizing involves making sure that the North pole of the generator rotor is in a
position to be attracted to the South pole which will be created when current starts
flowing in the generator stator windings. Otherwise, synchronizing check relays
wouldn't be required to prevent synch'ing "out of phase" and causing extreme damage to
machines.

Watch the speed of the turbine(s) at your site when you are synchronized to the grid and
loading and unloading. I'll bet it doesn't change by more than a tenth of a percent, or less.
If you are observing the RPM, I'll bet it doesn't change by more than 1 or 3 RPM, if that,
during loading and unloading. And that's from zero load to full load, or from full load to
zero load. Of from any load to any load, loading or unloading. When looking at the
speeds, I'm presuming the grid frequency is stable and not changing (as it should be).

At the same time, watch the frequency of the generator output. The two are directly
proportional, so you will the same "differences" during loading and unloading. If the
frequency is changing, the speed will be changing proportionally.

An electrical grid with multiple synchronous generators is like a bicycle with multiple
cranks (sets of pedals) and multiple riders to apply torque to each crankset. Those
cranksets are usually all connected to each other and to the rear drive by chains--and the
speed of each crankset cannot be different from any other crankset. In other words, one
rider can't be pedaling at 23 revolutions per minute while some other one is pedaling at
37 revolutions per minute (unless the gears of the cranksets are different, in which case
there is still a direct relationship between crankset rotation and bicycle speed for each
crankset).

Further, if that bicycle is supposed to travel at a constant speed (which is directly
relatable to a constant frequency) then all of the riders have to work together to ensure
that the torque being applied by each of them is sufficient to maintain that speed. If every
rider is pedaling as hard as they can then it's likely the speed will be excessive. If several
riders decide to take a break and remove their feet from the pedals at the same time then
it's likely the bicycle will slow down and if every other rider was already pedaling as hard
as they could then it's likely the bicycle will not be able to maintain speed. There has to
be some "coordination" between all the riders in order to be able to maintain a constant
speed while going over hills (up them and down them) or carrying loads.

And, if there's one rider who is extremely strong in relation to the other riders and that
rider starts pedaling as hard as he can then the speed of the bicycle will change--unless
there is some coordination.

On that bicycle, there needs to be one person who is in charge and telling people to apply
more torque (pedal harder) or less torque (pedal not a hard) to maintain speed. If every
rider is trying to make that decision for him- or herself, then it will be a disaster.

And the coordination of an electrical is done by the grid regulators. It's their job to make
sure the amount of generation on the grid matches the amount of load on the grid. They
have to anticipate load swings (to the extent they can) and have "reserve" capacity
available to meet demand. Just as it's necessary to have some riders on the bicycle
pedaling not quite as hard as others at all times so that changes in terrain or load can be
handled while still maintaining a constant speed.

Grid regulators use various methods to tell various power plants to increase or decrease
power output (AGC is the most common term for these methods) to balance generation
and load.

And, think about what happens when a rider who had removed his feet from his pedals
for some time decides to put his feet back on the pedals and begin pedaling while the
bicycle is traveling at a constant speed. It takes some coordination because his crankset
will be rotating and he has to time the placement of his feet back on the pedals
(synchronizing)so as not to injure himself. And, if he suddenly begins pedaling hard then
the bicycle speed will increase, and unless someone else reduces the torque they are
applying to their pedals the bicycle speed will not return to normal.

It's a physical "law" that the speed of a synchronous generator rotor is directly
proportional to the frequency of the grid with which it is connected. And, it's a physical
"law" that says the frequency of an AC grid will be constant when the amount of
generation exactly equals the load being supplied (the aggregate total of all the motors
and lights and computers being powered by the grid). If the amount of generation isn't
exactly equal to the amount of load, then the frequency won't be as desired. It's as simple
as that. Just like on that bicycle--if the rider(s) isn't(aren't) producing just the right
amount of torque to maintain the desired speed, then the bicycle won't travel at the
desired speed.

An AC (Alternating Current) grid depends on frequency control to properly provide
power to loads. So, since speed and frequency are directly related, the speed of generator
rotors has to be constant so that frequency remains constant. It's just like the bicycle
analogy--the speed of the bicycle won't be constant if the torque being applied to the
pedals isn't varied as necessary.

When the Speedtronic is controlling turbine speed when the generator breaker is NOT
closed, increasing fuel will increase speed, and decreasing fuel will decrease speed. But,
if the turbine is rated for 225 MW (example) and it's connected to a grid with several
thousand MWs of generation (many generators all synchronized together), then your
turbine isn't going to appreciably change the grid frequency as it's loaded and unloaded.
There are just too many other generators out there and as long as the grid regulators are
doing a good job then any one prime mover can't have an effect on grid frequency.

There are bascially two modes of governing action: Droop Speed Control, and
Isochronous Speed Control. Both have been covered MANY times before on
control.com, but for the purposes of this discussion Droop Speed Control basically means
the governor (the prime mover control system) isn't trying to control its speed; it's only
producing power in a stable fashion while operating in parallel with (synchronized to)
other generators to provide a load that is larger than any single generator and its prime
mover is capable of providing.

Isochronous Speed Control means the prime mover governor is going to adjust it's power
output very quickly in response to any changes in speed caused by changes in load in
order to maintain a nominal frequency. And just like in the bicycle analogy, if there are
too many people trying to adjust their output to maintain speed without any coordination
then the speed will not be very constant--and worse, for generator prime movers, the load
of those prime movers will be swinging wildly from one machine to another and back. In
theory, without some special kind of load-sharing schemes, no more than one prime
mover governor can be operated in Isochronous Speed Control mode at a time on a grid.

On most "grids" of any size with multiple synchronous generators, all of the prime
movers (again, without some special load-sharing scheme) must be in Droop Speed
Control mode in order to share in the powering of a large load with other generators.
And, someone, or something, must be monitoring the frequency and adjusting the total
generation to match the total load in order to maintain the frequency. It's a balancing act,
done much better in some parts of the world than others.

However, if a 225 MW machine is connected to a small grid with many smaller prime
movers, say 5-25 MW each, it's very possible that if the load of all the generators isn't
very well coordinated as the large machine is loaded and unloaded then the grid
frequency can deviate. It's just like the example of a very strong bicycle rider; no
different.

As far as loading and excitation, I think that's been explained already. If, as the current in
the stator windings increases (as a result of applying more torque ("twist") to the
generator rotor) the magnetic field strength of the stator windings can "overcome" or
"weaken" the strength of the rotor field and if something isn't done to increase the rotor
field strength then the net effect is that leading VArs will flow in the generator stator
windings. And if severe enough, then a loss of magnetism, and a resultant slipping of a
pole will occur. So, it's necessary to increase excitation as load is increased to maintain
the desired power factor, or VAr meter reading, or bad things will happen to the unit. The
excitation system will automatically do some of that increasing, but operators will also
need to do some (unless there is some kind of automatic Power Factor or VAr Control
scheme to do that).

Without the ability to add drawings or pictures to the threads here in control.com, it can
be very difficult to present and explain some concepts. However, we are talking about
pretty basic fundamentals of electricity here, and there should be some references or texts
or manuals on someone's desk or in some "library" at the site where you are working. Or,
you can use your preferred Internet search engine to look up these fundamentals. I know
YouTube isn't available in every part of the world, but there even good videos (and bad
ones!) for these topics available there.

If you have more specific questions, we can try to answer them here. Don't expect a lot of
formulae and maths from me, anyway. For all intents and purposes, on a properly
regulated grid, or even a mildly-well regulated grid, the frequency-related speeds of the
generator rotors and prime movers are all the same.

And, the control systems of those prime movers driving those generators are NOT trying
to control the speed of those prime movers and the generator rotors. In fact, if you use the
'Search' feature of control.com, you will learn it's called "Droop" Speed Control for a
reason--because the control system is allowing the speed of the prime mover to be less
than the speed reference. It's straight proportional control, and you can find out more
about proportional control from any number of sources.

Hope this helps!


Kamel,

Torque is a function of fuel. When the generator breaker is open, increasing the fuel
increases the torque which increases the speed.

When the generator breaker is closed, increasing the fuel increases the torque. But, since
the generator can't increase it's speed (because it's synchronized to the grid with other
synchronous generators and their prime movers) the generator converts the torque to
amperes.

Torque is produced by the prime mover--the GE-design Frame 9FA heavy duty gas
turbine in your case, by burning fuel and then expanding the hot gases in the turbine
section. The hot gases, passing through the turbine nozzles impinge on the turbine
buckets which are a fixed distance from the center of the shaft. However, increasing the
fuel flow-rate increases the hot gases passing through the turbine nozzles and turbine
buckets which increases the force being applied to the turbine buckets which increases
the torque being produced the turbine.

A certain amount of torque is required to keep the generator rotor spinning at the same
speed as the grid frequency dictates. If the turbine supplies only that amount of torque
when the generator breaker is closed the "load" on the turbine will be 0.0 MW. As the
fuel flow is increased, and the force on the turbine buckets increases, the torque produced
by the turbine will increase. The generator, held at a constant speed by the frequency of
the grid with which it is synchronized, cannot increase its speed so it converts the torque
into amperes.

Load (motors driving pumps and fans, and air conditioners, and lights, and computers)
tends to slow down a generator or grid. Think about the bicycle. Think about pedaling a
bicycle at a constant speed and all of a sudden your friend jumps on the handlebars. Or
someone throws a heavy package into the basket. Now, to maintain the same speed you
have to pedal harder. You are applying more force to the pedals, and that produces more
torque which is then applied to the rear wheel of the bicycle to maintain the speed. If you
apply the extra force to produce the extra torque fast enough then the speed of the bicycle
will not change (appreciably).

In reality, as the extra "load" is added to the bicycle the speed of the bicycle will tend to
decrease. But, if you increase the force you are applying to the pedals the speed won't
change by much.

The same is true for an electrical grid. As motors are turned on, and lights are turned on,
and air conditioners are turned on, and computers and monitors are turned on the initial
effect on the grid is to decrease the frequency of the grid (and the speed of the generators
and prime movers). That's because torque is being "taken" from the grid to power these
loads and something has to increase the torque being supplied to the grid to return the
grid frequency to normal. So, someone or something has to increase the torque being
provided to one or more of the generators to return, or maintain, the grid frequency to
normal.

But, for most loads on a large grid the speed decrease is almost imperceptible. Watch the
grid frequency on the HMI display at your site. Use a plotting feature (of CIMPLICITY
or the Speedtronic) to plot the frequency versus time. You will see, if you are connected
to a well-regulated grid, the frequency will vary every so slightly--only by, say,
hundredths of a Hz, or in some cases when very large loads are suddenly powered up, or
when a generator trips off line somewhere on the grid, or some large block of load is
separated from the grid for some reason, a tenth of a Hz.

Excitation is required to maintain generator terminal voltage, and to keep the generator
rotor magnetic field strong enough to prevent slipping a pole, and to maintain a desired
power factor, or to maintain a particular VAr reading.

When you synchronize your generator and its prime mover to the grid and start to load
your generator, presuming the number of motors and lights and air conditioners and
computers and monitors is relatively constant what will tend to happen is that the grid
frequency will tend to rise. That's because more "torque" is being added to the grid by
your generator from your prime mover than is required by the load, so the frequency will
increase. The amount the frequency increases is a function of how much total load is on
the grid and how much "load" is being added to your turbine.

Actually, your turbine isn't "adding" any thing--it's just taking a portion of the existing
load. And, unless the load decreases (the number of motors being run is reduced, or the
number of lights is reduced, or the number of air conditioners running is reduced, or the
number of computers and monitors is reduced) as you "increase" the load on your
turbine, the grid frequency will increase. Or, unless some prime mover somewhere is
unloaded by an amount exactly equal to the load being "added" to your machine as you
"load" your unit, the grid frequency will increase.

The opposite happens when you are "unloading" your machine. You are reducing the
amount of torque being supplied to the load. Unless some load is reduced somewhere or
some prime mover increases its torque output by amount exactly equal to the amount of
load "decrease" on your machine, the grid frequency will decrease.

That's the balancing act that grid regulators have to contend with every day, every hour of
every day. They have to monitor and anticipate load swings as best as they can, and they
have to try to time increases in generation or decreases in generation in order to maintain
frequency. If they see frequency beginning to decrease, they have to be able to call on
plants to increase their generation. Or, if they see frequency beginning to increase they
have to call on plants to decrease their generation.

Or, if a generator suddenly trips off line they have to be able to call on a plant or plant to
increase its generation by an amount equal to the amount of generation that just tripped
off line.

If there was a single prime mover operating in Isochronous Speed Control mode
somewhere on the grid, as load changed (the number of motors and lights and air
conditioners and computers and monitors)--and frequency changed as a result of the load
changes--that prime mover would automatically, and very quickly, change it's power
output to keep the total amount of generation equal to the total load. But, if load changes
are much bigger than the capacity of the prime mover, then grid regulators have to call on
other plants to help maintain frequency by increasing or decreasing their "load".

Again, go back to the analogy of the bicycle with multiple cranksets and riders. It takes
coordination to keep the bicycle running at a constant speed. Now think about adding or
deleting packages (load) from the bicycle while it's moving and trying to maintain that
constant speed.

In many parts of the world I've been to recently, when a power plant wants to go on line,
they have to call some "agency" and then the agency will tell them when it's possible to
go on line, and usually they want to know how much power the plant is going to be
producing and for how long and then they "schedule" the plant to go on line at a certain
time, knowing what the loading rate will be. They then have to reduce the load on some
other generator or plant by an equal amount in order to keep the grid frequency constant
as another plant is being brought on line.

Power plant operators, nor grid regulators, control the "load" per se. The load is what the
load is; and the total amount of generation must equal the total amount of load--otherwise
the grid frequency will not be at rated. Small variations (hundredths of Hz, or in worst
cases, a tenth of a Hz) are to be expected, but not large variations on well-regulated grids.

I'm trying to think of how to explain excitation in terms of the bicycle analogy. I don't
know if it's possible, but I'll keep thinking about it. Yes, it takes excitation to keep the
generator rotor in synchronism with the generator stator's magnetic field, which is
connected to the grid. But, excitation is not directly related to torque or load.

I'm sure there is some maths and vectors somewhere that say otherwise, but as an
operator and technician I don't have to concern myself with that. The designers of the
equipment being operated do have to deal with that maths and vectors. It might make me
a better technician to understand the maths and vectors, but I can assure you--it won't
help me explain how turbines and generators work to power plant operators any better or
more clearly! All of the maths and vectors will be useful in trying to understand transient
conditions and problems, but not in understanding normal, every day operations.

Posted by Lakshmanan on 16 March, 2013 - 6:46 am
Dear Sir,

I am owning a 400KW CHP unit powered by Natural Gas. And at Present my Operator is
increasing and decreasing Flow rate on KW Load basis. But it has chances of Manual
Failures or Fatigue.

So i am searching whether there is an Automatic Valve to control flow rate by giving KW
input signal. Any Electronic Controller and specialized valve is used for my Purpose??

Pls Email me to lakshbpositive@gmail.com

Posted by mohamed on 25 March, 2013 - 1:19 pm
You have stated the following :
Fuel is watts, or KW, or MW. Fuel is REAL power.

Excitation is VArs. Excitation is REACTIVE power.

Mr.CSA ,

I do not understand why excitation just effect the Reactive power only , can you explain
that using equations.

what I know if now the generator is connected to the GRID it is synchronized with the
GRID frequency and Volt (constant V&F) , so increasing the excitation current will
increase the stator current and since P & Q are function in Current both of them shall
increase not only VARS. Please make it clear for me.

In addition for increasing the speed (fuel rate) how it effect the power and the Volt is
constant since the generator is connected to the GRID.


Posted by CSA on 25 March, 2013 - 10:56 pm
mohamed,

There is current, and there is reactive current.

You're on the right track, with P & Q. The power triangle pretty much is all the maths
and formula I need. Except for F = (P * N)/120.

I know that when I hold excitation constant and increase the energy flow-rate to the
prime mover and the AC synchronous generator is synchronized to a grid with other
generators and their prime movers that the speed DOES NOT increase but the amperes
flowing in the stator DO increase, and the wattmeter increases and the VArmeter doesn't
really move very much.

Yes, it does move, but it's because of the EMFs and counter-EMFs and back-EMFs and
interactions between magnetic fields changing.

I also know that when I'm troubleshooting a wildly fluctuating wattmeter the cause is
never wildly fluctuating excitation; it's always a wildly fluctuating energy input to the
prime mover.

And when I'm troubleshooting a wildly fluctuating VArmeter the cause is never a wildly
fluctuating energy input to the prime mover; it's always a wildly fluctuating excitation
current/voltage.

I will maintain, without resorting to equations and formulas, that real power, P (watts), is
a function of energy flow-rate to the prime mover driving the generator. And that reactive
..., er,... uh,... power (there, I said it! It feels so good!)--reactive power--is a function of
excitation.

But, I think the problem with your question is that there is current and there is reactive
current. Current is the result of increasing the torque being applied to the generator rotor
by the prime mover. Reactive current is the result of increasing the excitation above or
below that required to maintain the generator terminal voltage equal to the grid voltage.
The two currents are not the same.

And, another problem with your statement/question is that increasing the torque applied
by the prime mover to the generator does not increase the speed--other than a very small,
instantaneous change in acceleration. And the acceleration rate returns to zero, meaning
the frequency remains, for all intents and purposes, constant (on a well-regulated grid).

www.wikipedia.org has lots of formulas and equations and explanations of the power
triangle, using P, Q and S, and angles and all manner of other "justification."

I like to think of S as the total amount of energy being produced by the generator (as a
consequence of both the energy from the prime mover and the energy from the exciter). S
is the sum of real (P) and reactive (Q) power. When reactive power is zero, and P is
increased, S increases.

When P is constant and Q increases then S increases.

S changes when either P or Q changes. If both change, S changes.

I don't know how else to explain it in layperson's terms. I'm not a mathematician, or a
professor (or a former professor). I'm a technician and a former operator who's always
trying to relate the things I learned in university to real life. The texts I read, and the
instruction I received, were very misleading.

In hindsight it's possible to understand how the authors and the professor could come to
the explanations because they didn't have a lot of real-world experience operating and
maintaining and troubleshooting equipment operating with the principles they were trying
to explain. A great example is how so many texts and reference materials explain droop
by saying the no-load speed is 105%, and the full load speed is 100% for a machine with
5% droop. When the full load speed is really 100%, and the no-load speed is also 100%
for a machine with 5% droop.

And I, also, struggle with explaining this to people. I know it works, but I'm not the best
at explaining it to others.

It's the same with real and reactive power.

Posted by rahul on 22 July, 2013 - 7:47 am
the concept is simple -

1. when you increase excitation keeping the torque on prime mover constant reactive
power changes ,you can analyse by drawing phasers when you increase excitation voltage
is increased but its in phase with the second generators voltage so the synchronising
current is 90 degree lagging to it because current is (E new - E old)/Xs Xs is
synchronising reactance (rs is almost negligible which gives 90 degree lagging current)
so current is reactive and so active power remains unchanged.

2. when fuel is increased excitation is constant since speed of prime mover is locked due
to synchronisation the generators operating in parallel will share the loads and this can be
only possible if E1 and E2 (of two generators) will get displaced by some angle (in earlier
case they were in same phase but magnitude wise different here they are magnitude wise
same but are displaced by some angle)this angle is very small .draw the resultant in
phaser and observe that current is almost in phase with both the e1 and e2 so reactive
power will change.

Posted by Anil K Panjani on 28 April, 2013 - 2:54 am
Quite interesting explanation CSA.

I would like to know if there is any possibility of exciter rotor failure due to problem in
excitation system. One of the exciter of frame 7 generator has failed severely during
operation and it looks like an explosion has taken place inside the exciter.

Your view on this.

br/anil

Posted by MarktheSecond on 4 October, 2012 - 3:39 pm
Kamel
I think you have been given some very good explanation.

Also, the answer to your question depends on whether the generator set is(a) connected to
a grid/another set or (b) operating alone.

If alone:.
Essentially, increasing the speed setting increases the fuel flow and increases the speed of
the turbine/generator. The voltage will increase as the volts are proportional to some
extent to the speed of the rotor/field.

However, the voltage is varied by increasing/decreasing the field current. This has a more
immediate and influential effect than varying the speed. It is independent of the speed
controls and it does not affect the speed.

So: set the speed first with speed/fuel controls and then when happy, set the voltage.

Now the problem. If you are connected to a grid:

Because the generator is "synchronized" with the grid, and the grid is so much larger than
the generator in capacity, the grid determines the speed of the generator and thus of the
turbine.

You cannot change the speed of the turbine when it is connected to the grid. [there is a
very large generator on the grid somewhere whose job is to hold 50/60Hz and all other
generators are tied to that frequency.

In this case, your turbine speed control ( fuel control) is not configured to keep the speed
at a particular setpoint. It is instead, configured to maintain a certain load/speed profile.
This is called "droop control". This is normally set to 4%. What this means is that if you
load your turbine to say half load and it is sitting there at 60Hz (assuming your grid is
60), if the grid speed slips to, say, 59Hz, your turbine fuel/speed controls will increase the
fuel supply in order to pick up MORE LOAD and not MORE SPEED. The drop in grid
frequency approximates to a 2% drop in speed. At 4% "droop" setting, the turbine will
pick up 2/4X100% load, or half load. So added to the half load it is already on this will
mean that it will be fully loaded.

The reason for this fuel control method is to ensure that all of the turbines on the grid
pick up the same proportion of their full load (or drop off in the case of an increase in
frequency) As the frequency of the grid returns to normal, your turbine controls will
lower the fuel in accordance with the 4% droop curve.

It is important to understand this if you are connected to a grid.
Manual/Automatic increase of speed setpoint

If the grid frequency is constant, as you increase the speed setpoint on your genset
manually/automatically, as explained before, the speed cannot change so as more fuel
flows, the turbine takes on more load. Normally some central systems operator asks
individual turbine operators to take on or drop off load.

SO the turbine controls only affect the load (in Kw) of the generator not the voltage.
This is all "real" power.
The above was all about power and speed control. As regards the voltage, this is also held
constant by the grid. Analagously, the voltage controls i.e. increase/decrease in field
current which would increase/decrease the terminal voltage of the generator if you were
not connected to the grid will actually result in the acceptance or rejection of Volt Amp
Reactive (VARs). This is to do with the power factor etc and normally all voltage
controls on a grid are set to the same droop settings so that as the power factor changes
on a grid, all of the generators pick up the same VARs. !!!!!!!! . Voltage
control/VARs/PF is all very much less intuitive than speed control and more difficult to
understand.

So you can see that you can vary neither speed nor volts when connected. And there is no
connection between voltage control and speed control.

Which do you have?

Kamel,

Have you monitored/trended speed/frequency versus load on your unit yet?

What have you observed happening to speed and frequency when you change load (by
changing fuel flow-rate)?

If your 9FA has an EX2000 or an EX2100, you should also be able to trend excitation
current and voltage as well as power factor, VArs, and generator teonal voltage at the
same time as the other data to see how everything works together, as well as
independently.

Please write back to let us know what you discover.

Posted by Kamel on 8 October, 2012 - 8:37 am
Thank you every body

And special thanks to CSA
I'm very sorry for my slow response

really CSA your explanation is very simple and very helpful. my problem that my back
ground is mechanical and i want to understand the concepts of turbine control not only
watching trends which are very useful i know but i want to get the reason for the behavior
of this trends.

From trends it is obvious that turbine speed matching grid freq and not changing when
load increase and excitation increases.
There are some doubts:

1-for finite sys increasing excitation can produce VARs or only voltage will increase.

2-for infinite sys, terminal voltage will not change. so, how AVR will control the
excitation during loading/unloading what it will monitor?

3-for preselected load and base load control any change in isochronous and droop control
(or only the difference if we loading manually).

4-in isochronous mode for finite grid if applied load tends to exceed the turbine base load
what will happened? Does freq change?

5-what will happened if we put 250MW turbine in Island mode during connected to
10000MW grid? is there is any risk for that?

Again thank you so much.


Doubts.... Oh, how I dislike that word. (Look it up, and I think you'll see why. If you
have questions, or need more clarification, that's great. But to doubt what you've been
told, that's not so great.)

> 1-for finite sys increasing excitation can produce VARs or only voltage will increase.

VArs are like Watts; you can't make more than is required by the load. If you try to make
more Watts than is required, then the frequency is going to increase. If you try to make
more VArs, then the terminal voltage is just going to go up.

> 2-for infinite sys, terminal voltage will not change. so, how AVR will
> control the excitation during loading/unloading what it will monitor?

The "A" in AVR means Automatic. When the AVR is in Automatic mode, it's trying to
keep the generator terminal voltage relatively constant.

Grid voltage does change throughout the day and the year. That's a function of load and
impedances and many factors. As the grid voltage is changes, then VARs--and power
factor--will change. It's the operator's responsibility to keep the VAr meter pointing at
where it's supposed to be pointed or the power factor meter pointing at where it's
supposed to be pointed. Some turbine control systems, and some AVRs, have VAR-
and/or Power Factor control--implying automatic control of one or the other parameter.
Excitation will be adjusted as necessary to maintain the setpoint of one or the other,
automatically. Otherwise, it's the operator's responsibility (except most operators can't be
bothered with such trivial things).

> 3-for preselected load and base load control any change in isochronous and
> droop control (or only the difference if we loading manually).

Pre-Selected Load Control and Base Load can only be selected by an operator when the
unit is is Droop Speed Control governor mode. In Isochronous Speed Control mode, the
load of the unit (the power being produced by the unit) is varied in response to changes in
frequency. That's how frequency is controlled--by varying generation to match load. As
load increases, generation must increase to maintain frequency. As load decreases,
generation must decrease to maintain frequency. If you set a Pre-Selected Load Control
Setpoint and enabled Pre-Selected Load Control (the Speedtronic is smart enough not to
allow an operator to do this!), then the turbine wouldn't respond to changes in load to
maintain frequency--and the whole concept of Isochronous goes out the window. Along
with frequency control.

> 4-in isochronous mode for finite grid if applied load tends to exceed the
> turbine base load what will happened? Does freq change?

Yes; if the grid load increases above the Base Load capability of the machine, then grid
frequency will decrease.

> 5-what will happened if we put 250MW turbine in Island mode during connected
> to 10000MW grid? is there is any risk for that?

Make sure you have a torch with charged batteries in your pocket when you try this. And,
then, write back to let me know what happened. Depending on how well the grid
frequency is controlled in your part of the world, it could be very interesting. The unit
might trip on exhaust overtemperature control, or on Reverse Power. But, probably the
load swings would be pretty large (huge) until one or the other happened. And sooner
rather than later.

I hope my long and verbose writings weren't too incoherent. It's a very difficult topic to
explain to people. Not impossible. Just difficult.

Dear CSA

when i tell "i have some doubts" what i mean is "i have some questions". maybe I'm
using the word "doubts" incorrectly as my English not perfect but i only mean that i need
more clarification and sure i don't mean i doubt about what you tell, by the way sorry for
this misunderstanding.

I need some clarifications about some of your answers:

> 1-for finite sys increasing excitation can produce VARs or only voltage will increase.

What i mean here, for a small grid (island mode) if there are only 3 turbines when we
increase excitation only the voltage will increase? And dose VARs can be produced or
not? Because in very large grids increasing excitation will increase VARs not voltage

> 2-for infinite sys, terminal voltage will not change. So, how AVR will control the
excitation during loading/unloading what it will monitor?

what i mean in a very large grid my generator voltage will match grid voltage so in case
of stable grid voltage if i want to increase the load the fuel will increase and load angle
will increase and flux will decrease but voltage will stay the same as grid volt did not
change so how AVR will increase excitation to increase flux if voltage did not change
what is the parameter it will monitor in this case?

> 3 If you set a Pre-Selected Load Control Set point and enabled Pre-Selected Load
Control (the Speedtronic is smart enough not to allow an operator to do this!), then the
turbine wouldn't respond to changes in load to maintain frequency--and the whole
concept of Isochronous goes out the window. Along with frequency control.

So whenever preselected load or base load activated the speedtronic will respond to it
regardless we are in droop control or isochronous
I have one question now: what is the effect of frequency change if preselected mode is
active (dose load change) and if it is base load

> 5-what will happened if we put 250MW turbine in Island mode during connected
> to 10000MW grid? Is there is any risk for that?

If the turbine is loaded at 100 MW and turned to island mode what will happen if
frequency is 50 or very high or very low
And please explain how it can trip for over temp (load rate is there)
If the turbine at 100 MW as preselected load and turned to island what happens
Please explain how controller will react with these situations

I have some other questions

1-to control the voltage how AVR and on load tap changer of main transformer will work
together 2-what is the difference between island mode and dead bus mode (especially if
recovering from black out)

2-we have three 9FA machines and when it all in AGC sometimes one of them picks up
more load up to 30 MW extra. Is this normal? And why it happens?

Finally thank you for your effort and I'm sorry for this much questions but I read too
much and asked many people about this control system but always it is confusing and
contradictive.


Kamel,

I think you do have doubts, because I don't understand what's not clear about the answers
that were previously provided....

>> 1-for finite sys increasing excitation can produce VARs or only voltage will increase.

> What i mean here, for a small grid (island mode) if there are only 3 turbines when we
increase excitation
> only the voltage will increase? And dose VARs can be produced or not? Because in
very large grids increasing excitation
> will increase VARs not voltage

In the same way that any system, finite or infinite, can't make more watts (real power)
than the load on the system presents, generators can't produce more VArs (reactive
power) than the load on the system present. Now, if you have three generators on a small
system and the total reactive load is 30 MVArs, if two of the generators are carrying 15
MVArs each, and the excitation of the third generator is increased then it's likely the
reactive power from either or both of the other generators might shift to the third
generator--but the total VARs AIN'T GONNA CHANGE. And in one generator is
carrying all of the reactive load and the excitation on that generator is increased further
then the voltage of the system is going to increase.

VArs can be thought of exactly like watts. If you increase the torque above what's
required to keep the power being produced equal to the power being consumed then the
frequency of the system is going to increase. If you increase the excitation above what's
required to supply the reactive load on the system then the system voltage is going to
increase.

>> 2-for infinite sys, terminal voltage will not change. So, how AVR will control the
excitation during
>> loading/unloading what it will monitor?

If you reduce the torque being supplied to the generator below what's required to keep the
generator running at a speed equal to 50 Hz (for your system), the speed of your
generator is NOT going to change. That's because your unit will draw amperes from the
grid (reverse power) to keep the generator (and turbine) running at synchronous
frequency and speed. (In reality, the grid frequency will decrease by an almost
imperceptible amount that is a function of the amount of power being drawn from the
grid versus the total generation on the grid. But, for all intents and purposes the frequency
will, on most systems, change by a minimal, imperceptible amount.)

If you reduce the excitation to your generator below what's required to keep your
generator terminal voltage equal to the system voltage, reactive power will flow into the
generator trying to keep the generator voltage equal to grid voltage. In reality, the voltage
on your generator will decrease by a small amount, but for all intents and purposes it, too,
will be an imperceptible amount.

> So whenever preselected load or base load activated the speedtronic will respond to it
regardless we are in droop
> control or isochronous I have one question now: what is the effect of frequency change
if preselected mode is active (dose load
> change) and if it is base load

The Speedtronic will not allow a turbine operating in Isochronous mode to enable Pre-
Selected Load Control. Or Base Load. Isochronous mode is going to adjust the fuel in
response to speed changes and the load is going to be what the load is going to be. Full
stop. Period. End of discussion.

> If the turbine is loaded at 100 MW and turned to island mode what will happen if
frequency is 50 or very high or very low
> And please explain how it can trip for over temp (load rate is there) If the turbine at 100
MW as preselected
> load and turned to island what happens Please explain how controller will react with
these situations

Frequency high: The turbine is going to unload VERY quickly--because the
loading/unloading rate in Isoch mode is VERY quick. It might even trip on reverse
power.

Frequency very load: The turbine is going to load VERY quickly--and because the
loading/unloading rate is MUCH faster in Isoch mode the unit could trip on exhaust
overtemperature.

> I have some other questions

I'm going to let other people try to answer these questions. I seem to be answering the
same questions over and over, so let's let others see if they can supply satisfactory
answers.

Thank you CSA for your answers and I appreciate your effort so much. sorry for
repeating questions but I'm confused so I'm asking for help.

Again thank you

Kamel,

I'm curious about the bicycle analogy and if it was helpful at all. I find that most people
don't really understand why we "produce" electricity at all. It's just something that most
people take for granted. If we think about a bicycle being used to do work (move people
and/or goods from one place to another), it's just like a turbine and generator.

A turbine produces torque, which a generator converts to amps, which are transmitted
over wires to motors which convert the amperes back into torque that is used to perform
work. So, in reality, the turbine at your site is actually doing work in a LOT of remote
locations--because the turbine is providing the torque to do the work at the locations
where the motors are. And electricity is just the way the torque is transmitted from one
place to another, to many places.

In an AC system, the transmission of amperes occurs at a particular frequency, 50 Hz in
your case. That's akin to a bicycle, or bicycles, or bicycles with several riders and
cranksets, moving a load at a particular speed. Because speed and frequency are directly
related. Provide too much torque to the bicycle and the load will move at a faster speed
than desired. Increase the load above the torque being supplied to the pedals and the load
will move at a slower speed.

A generator is exactly the same. Provide torque in excess of the load being produced by
the motors connected to the generator and the frequency will increase. Increase the
number of motors and the work being performed by the motors in excess of the torque
being provided to the generator and the frequency will decrease.

It's that simple.

Now, think of a grid (large or infinite) as the sum of all the motors (and lights and
computers and monitors) and of all the generation (the amount of torque being produced
by the prime movers driving the generators which are actually doing the work at the other
end of the wires connected to the generators). If you increase the torque above what's
required to keep the frequency constant, the load doesn't change (the number of motors
and lights and computers and monitors)--the frequency increases.

If you allow the number of motors and lights and computers and monitors to increase
above the amount of torque being provided to the generators by the prime movers then
the frequency will decrease.

It's that simple.

Now, excitation, what we're trying to do is to keep our generator terminal voltage equal
to grid voltage. And as long as generator terminal voltage is equal to grid voltage then
there will be NO reactive current flowing in the generator stator windings.

In the same way that grid frequency is never perfectly constant (trend SFL1 and SFL2
along with turbine speed), grid voltage is never perfectly constant either. And that means
that excitation is going to have to change to keep the relationship between generator
terminal voltage and grid voltage in check. If for a constant load (watts) the grid voltage
increases and the excitation remains constant then leading VArs will flow in the
generator stator windings. If for a constant load the excitation is reduced below that
required to make generator terminal equal to grid voltage then leading VArs will flow in
the generator stator winding.

Does the generator terminal voltage actually change? Imperceptibly so, depending on the
magnitude of excitation change. Just like the frequency changes on a grid as load or
generation changes--imperceptibly on a properly regulated grid--so does the generator
terminal voltage change as excitation changes. By changing the excitation on one
generator to try to raise grid voltage or lower grid voltage, the voltage isn't going to
change by very much at all because there are a lot of other generators out there all
connected to the same grid.

It's just like what happens when you load your generator (watts)--you can't appreciably
change the grid frequency but if the load on the grid remains constant and you increase
the torque being provided to the generator the grid frequency will increase--by an amount
that's proportional to the increase in torque with respect to the total amount of torque
being provided to the grid. The larger the grid, the smaller the effect.

Excitation and VArs are very difficult to explain, especially here on control.com. There
are all kinds of maths and vectors, but the upshot of all that stuff is this: If the excitation
exceeds the amount required to make the generator terminal voltage equal to the grid
voltage then lagging VArs will flow in the generator stator windings. And if excitation is
less than the amount required to maintain generator terminal voltage equal to grid voltage
then leading VArs will flow in the generator stator windings. VArs flowing in the stator
windings reduce the efficiency of the generator.

The AVR is a control system for keeping the excitation stable, just as the governor
function of the Speedtronic turbine control system keeps the torque production stable.
The AVR can be used to increase or decrease VArs, just as the Speedtronic can be used
to increase or decrease watts.

The tires of a bicycle require air to stay inflated so that there is sufficient traction. A
poorly inflated tire also requires more torque to travel at the same speed because of the
increased contact with the road. A poorly inflated tire will also have reduced life because
the side walls will wear out faster due to heat and contact with the road. An over-inflated
tire will not have as much traction because of reduced contact with the road, and it will be
more prone to puncture and flattening if over-inflated. I guess you could consider
excitation to be the air in the tires of the bicycle. The ability to maintain traction to
maintain speed without requiring excessive torque to overcome under-inflation can be
equated to excitation keeping the generator terminal voltage equal to grid voltage.

When a synchronous generator is being synchronized, the usual practice is to make the
speed of the generator (the frequency) slightly higher than grid frequency. This is so that
when the generator breaker is closed and the generator slows down to match grid
frequency the "excess" torque will result in a slight positive power flow (watts) out of the
generator.

In the same way, when synchronizing a generator the terminal voltage is usually slightly
higher than grid voltage, or at least equal to grid voltage, so that when the generator
breaker is closed there will be a slight "positive" VAr indication (lagging VArs) or zero
VArs.

Again, the questions you ask are good ones. I just don't seem to be able to give you the
answers you require to help overcome the questions. If you can explain what it is about
the bicycle analogy that you don't understand, then maybe we can move forward.
Because, it's all directly relatable.

We can talk about Isochronous Speed Control with the bicycle analogy, too. Provided
that's working for you. Help me to understand what you're not understanding.

Thank you so much CSA,

Your explanation is clear for me.

And to go step by step, after synchronizing does excitation control is only by terminal
voltage or there are other parameters control it?

What I don't understand now if the grid voltage not changing (suppose) and turbine load
increasing the torque will increase so load angle will increase. so in this case does the
excitation will increase or leading VARs will flow (in case the grid voltage is stable)?


Kamel,

The way I learned it in university, and the way I like to explain it is thusly....

There are two magnetic fields in the generator: the one produced by the excitation applied
to the generator rotor, and the one produced by the current flowing in the generator stator
windings.

The strength of any magnetic field is proportional to the amount of current flowing in that
field. As the generator is "loaded", the amount of current flowing in the generator stator
windings increases, and the strength of the magnetic fields of the generator stator
windings therefore increases.

The two fields "interact" with each other in many different ways. As one field's strength
is increased, this can have an impact on the strength of the other magnetic field. In fact,
as the strength of the stator field increases, it tends to "reduce" the effects of the rotor
field, and if allowed to continue unchecked what will happen is that leading reactive
current (VArs) will flow in the generator stator windings. And most synchronous
generators are not built to withstand the effects of a lot of leading reactive current
flowing in the generator stator windings.

So, what usually happens is that as a generator is "loaded"--meaning that the torque being
applied to the generator rotor is increased, and the generator excitation is not changed--
the operator will see that the VAr meter, which was probably at 0 VArs or at some small
leading value initially after synchronization, starts moving in the Leading direction. So,
the operator will need to increase the excitation to keep the VAr meter at 0 or in the
Lagging direction.

Some turbine-generator units have something called VAr Control. VAr Control will
automatically adjust excitation as required to maintain the VAr setpoint as the unit is
loaded or unloaded, relieving the operator of the responsibility to do this (or so he
thinks!). And, since Power Factor and reactive current are related, many turbine-
generators also have Power Factor control, which will adjust the excitation as required to
maintain a Power Factor setpoint as the machine is loaded and unloaded.

Once you reach the desired load (watts) for your unit and have adjusted the excitation to
the desired reactive current or power factor (I'm not talking about using VAr Control or
Power Factor Control now), the operator's job is NOT finished. During the course of the
day the grid voltage will change, just by a few volts, or tens of volts, or sometimes a
hundred volts or so, but that change is relatively imperceptible on high-voltage systems
(11,000 Volts, or 130,000 Volts). BUT, if the excitation on your generator remains
constant that difference will result in a change in reactive current flow (and Power
Factor) in the generator stator windings. And, so the operator will need to continually
monitor the VAr meter, or the Power Factor meter, and adjust the excitation as required
to maintain the setpoint given to him by his supervisor, in response to grid voltage
changes.

If the unit has VAr Control, or Power Factor Control, the operator can enable either of
those functions (they both can't be running at the same time) and the excitation will be
adjusted as necessary as grid voltages changes throughout the day, even if the load
(watts) on the generator remain relatively stable throughout the day.

It's all about "relativity". If the grid voltage is "constant" and the operator increases the
generator rotor excitation above the amount required to keep the generator terminal
voltage equal to the grid voltage then Lagging reactive current will flow in the generator
stator windings. Likewise, if the generator excitation is equal to the amount required to
keep the generator terminal voltage equal to the grid voltage and the grid voltage
decreases then Lagging reactive current will flow in the generator stator windings.

Think about real power (watts) now. When the generator breaker is closed if the torque
being applied to the generator by the turbine is exactly equal to the amount required to
keep the generator spinning at synchronous speed (frequency) there will be NO real
power flowing in the generator stator windings. If the torque is then increased above the
amount required to keep the generator rotor spinning at synchronous speed (frequency)
then real power will flow "out" of the generator, to the load. If the torque is decreased
below the amount required to keep the generator rotor spinning at synchronous speed
then real power will flow "into" into the generator and it will in effect become a motor
driving the turbine.

Well, it's basically the same for the voltage, right? Excitation more than required to keep
generator terminal voltage equal to grid voltage means reactive power will flow "out" of
the generator (Lagging VArs are perceived to flow "out" of a generator), and excitation
below the amount required to keep generator terminal voltage equal to grid voltage
means that reactive current will flow "into" the generator (Leading VArs are perceived to
flow "into" a generator).

That's how I was taught; that's how I perceive things; that's how I like to teach others.

Re-read the above now, and it should get clearer. And clearer each time you re-read it. I
hope.

As the load angle increases, if the excitation is held constant, then the increased stator
current will cause the stator magnetic field to strengthen, which will "reduce" the effect
of the rotor magnetic field which will affect the reactive current flowing in the generator
stator windings.

I don't really understand all the confusion about the AVR and generator terminal voltage
control. The AVR usually has two modes: "Manual" and "Automatic", or "DC" and
"AC". Manual mode means the excitation is monitoring the DC current (or DC voltage)
being applied to the generator rotor, and the setpoint is generator rotor current (or DC
voltage) to keep the current (or voltage) equal to the setpoint. It's the operator's
responsibility to monitor the generator terminal voltmeter, or the VAr- or Power Factor-,
meter and adjust the rotor current (or voltage) to maintain the desired volts/VArs/Power
Factor.

In Automatic mode, the setpoint is AC generator terminal voltage, and the excitation is
adjusted to keep the generator AC terminal voltage equal to the generator AC terminal
voltage setpoint. If the relationship between the generator terminal voltage changes
(whether it's because the excitation changes or the grid voltage changes) then the VArs
and the Power Factor will also change.

If the unit has VAr Control and/or Power Factor Control, then the excitation will be
adjusted as necessary to maintain the VAr or Power Factor setpoint, and the amount of
current (and voltage) being applied to the generator rotor, and therefore the generator
terminal voltage (in relation to the grid voltage) will be changed as necessary. Think of
the "Manual" regulator as the "main" regulator, and the "Automatic" regulator "driving"
the "Manual" regulator (this is sometimes referred to as "inner loop" and "outer loop"),
and if either VAr Control or Power Factor control is active then that is "driving" the
"Automatic" regulator (which is driving the Manual regulator). Isn't this fun?!?!???!!!

It's very similar to considering what will happen if the torque being provided to the
generator rotor is being maintained at or near the amount required just to keep the
generator rotor spinning at synchronous speed. An increase in torque will cause real
power (watts) to flow "out" of the generator stator windings, and a decrease in torque will
cause real power (watts) to flow "into" the generator stator windings ("motorizing" the
generator--which is not a desirable condition to occur for very long).

You have asked about 'on-load' tap changers and how that affects reactive current flow.
Well, when the transformer taps are changed, then the relationship between the low-
voltage "voltage" and the "high-voltage" voltage changes, and that means the magnitude
of the voltage that is "seen" at the generator terminals changes, which means that the
reactive current will also change. It's another method of controlling the relationship
between grid voltage and generator terminal voltage, and therefore the amount (and type
or "direction") of reactive current flowing in the generator stator windings. An 'on-load'
tap changer means that the taps of the transformer can be changed when current is
flowing through the transformer (real power current, watts). Some taps can't be changed
when current is flowing through the transformer; some transformers don't have adjustable
taps at all--the relationship between low- and high-voltage voltages is not adjustable at
all.

I hope this helps.

I guess what might be causing some confusion is how increasing or decreasing the torque
being applied to the generator rotor might have an effect on the reactive current flowing
in the generator stator windings. And, that's a function of the relative strengths of the two
magnetic fields at work in the generator, that are keeping the generator rotor locked in
step with the "rotating" magnetic fields of the generator stator and therefore keeping the
generator rotor spinning at synchronous speed--equal to the speed that is directly
proportional to the frequency of the grid with which it is connected.

I was taught that the interaction between the two magnetic fields as the strengths of the
two magnetic fields are varied with respect to each other is called "armature reaction",
but some people don't think this is exactly what the pure definition of armature reaction
is.

Do you need to know exactly what the pure definition of armature reaction is to be a
good operator or technician? No. Do you need to know all of the maths and vectors to be
a good operator or technician? No. Do you need to understand the fundamentals to be a
good operator or technician? Yes. The designers of the equipment (the turbines and the
generators and the AVRs and the transformers) they need to know all of that stuff to
make it operate in the desired ranges and to have a long life and to be reliable and safe. If
it's not operated within the limits of the design then it's not going to last very long, to
begin with, and it's not going to "behave" as it should--and that's where a more detailed
understanding of the maths and vectors will be more helpful.

As an operator and/or a technician you need to remember this:

--Real power is a function of the energy being admitted to the prime mover of the
generator.

--Reactive power is a function of the excitation being applied to the prime mover of the
generator.

The formula for three-phase real power is:

W = Vt * Ia * (3^0.5) * Power Factor

where W = Power, in Watts (or KW or MW)
Vt = Generator Terminal Voltage
Ia = Generator Armature (Stator) Current

Because we consider the voltage of most generators to be constant (within a small range,
usually no more than approximately +/- 5% of nameplate rated) and since generator
terminal voltage is primarily a function of excitation, and since we consider the Power
Factor to be relative stable (which is also a function of excitation--which should be
relatively stable), the only variable in the equation is Ia, which is directly proportional the
amount of torque being applied to the generator rotor by the prime mover. And the
amount of torque is directly proportional to the amount of energy being introduced into
the prime mover. So, if you vary the fuel (or steam) into the prime mover you vary the
torque being produced by the prime mover, which varies the amount of current flowing in
the generator stator windings (armature), which affects the real power being produced by
the generator.

Can you change the real power by changing the excitation? Yes, but not by very much.
As you vary excitation the generator terminal voltage will change. But, we said the
amount is usually limited to +/ 5%, so for a generator rated at 13,800 Volts that means
only about +/- 700 Volts. That change in excitation not only affect generator terminal
voltage but it also affects the Power Factor, which is a measure of the efficiency of the
generator at producing "real" work (watts) for the energy being applied to the generator
rotor by the prime mover. Again, if we can only change the generator terminal voltage by
no more than 5%, then we can't have a very large affect on power--less than 5%, right?

As an operator or technician, if the watts being produced by the turbine-generator are not
stable you need to know if that's because the fuel (or steam) flow is not stable or if it's
because the excitation is not stable. Or, if the VAr meter (or the Power Factor meter) is
not stable you need to know is that a function of the fuel (or steam) flow being unstable
or of the excitation being unstable. Then you can begin to troubleshoot the problem or
understand the event. Do you need to know maths and vectors? It might be helpful, but I
can tell you that most of the people I've met in my decades in this business who know the
maths and vectors can't explain the fundamentals to operator and technicians so they can
understand it and operate the turbine-generators better. And those who do not really
understand or use maths and vectors to explain turbine-generator operation and
fundamentals to others so they can operate the turbine-generators better ARE more
capable of explaining and teaching others to operate and maintain turbine-generators
better.

Is this getting clearer?


OOPS!!!

>--Reactive power is a function of the
>excitation being applied to the prime
>mover of the generator.
***!!!NOT!!!***

Excitation is NOT applied to a generator prime mover (I need to be more careful with
'Copy and Paste'!).

Excitation is applied to the generator rotor.

SORRY!!!


All,

I want to make a clarification here about total generation exactly matching total load to
keep frequency at nominal.

Let's consider the bicycle analogy again. To propel the rider (and any load: rider(s) and/or
package(s)) at a constant speed the torque being provided to the crankset pedals has to be
sufficient to achieve and maintain the desired speed. If more torque than required (for a
particular load) is applied to the pedals, then the speed will be higher than desired. And if
less torque than required is provided (for a particular load) then the speed will be lower
than desired. And if the load varies then the amount of torque must also vary in order to
maintain the same speed.

If the load decreases (some packages fall off the bicycle or are dropped off by the
rider(s)) but the torque remained the same, then the speed will increase. That's because
the difference between the torque required to move the bicycle at a constant speed with
the reduced load and the torque required to move the bicycle at a constant with the higher
load has decreased, so therefore the speed of the bicycle would increase if the torque
didn't change. It doesn't take as much torque to propel the lower load at the same speed as
was required before the load was reduced, so if the torque didn't change then the speed of
the bicycle would increase.

Conversely, if the amount of torque being applied to the pedals is sufficient to keep the
bicycle moving at the desired speed and suddenly some packages are added to the bicycle
(or your friend jumps on the handlebars) but the amount of torque being applied to the
pedals did not change, then the bicycle speed would decrease. Because the difference
between the torque required to keep the bicycle at the desired speed before the load was
added and the torque required to keep the bicycle moving at the desired speed after the
load was added increased, the speed of the bicycle would decrease if the torque being
applied didn't change.

If the load on the bicycle changes but the torque being applied to the bicycle pedals
doesn't change then the speed of the bicycle will change. In other words, the bicycle
won't stop just because the amount of torque required changes because the load changed;
the bicycle, and the load, will still keep moving.

However, if it's desired to keep the speed of the bicycle constant if the load on the bicycle
changes, then the torque being applied to the pedals must also change. If the torque being
applied to the pedals isn't varied as the load on the bicycle is varied the bicycle will still
move, along with the load, but it won't do so at a constant speed.

So it is with AC power generation. The load being provided by the power generators will
always match the load required by the system--it just needs to be matched at the system
frequency in order for the frequency to remain at nominal (desired). If too much torque
is being applied to the generators to produce a particular amount of power at 50 Hz, then
the frequency will be higher than 50 Hz. The generation matches the load, but not at the
desired frequency.

In other words, if the torque being applied to a load exceeds the torque required to power
the load at 50 Hz, then the frequency will be higher than 50 Hz. If the torque being
provided to the load is less than the torque required to power the load at 50 Hz, then the
frequency will be lower than 50 Hz. The generation "matches" the load, but NOT at the
desired frequency.

The total generation will (most) always match the total load, but unless the generation
matches the load at the nominal frequency then the frequency will not be as desired.

And that's what I have been meaning when I say the total generation "must EXACTLY
match" the total load--the total amount of generation must match the load at the nominal
frequency, for the grid frequency to remain at nominal and stable. The torque being
provided to the bicycle pedals must be sufficient to move the load at the desired speed, or
else the speed will be higher or lower than desired.

If the torque being provided doesn't change but the load increases, then the speed
(frequency) will decrease. If the torque being provided doesn't change but the load
decreases, then the speed (frequency) will increase.

It works exactly the same for both the bicycle and the generator. If we consider all of the
generators connected to a grid as "one" generator, and all of the loads as "one" load, the
analogy of the bicycle and load moving at a constant speed regardless of load changes
works exactly like maintaining the frequency constant of a grid as load changes. It's all
about torque, be it a bicycle or a generator. Even if the torque doesn't change, the load
still "moves"--just not at the desired speed. Or, if the torque changes but the load doesn't
change, the load still "moves"--just not at the desired speed.

I hope this clarifies any confusion my "must EXACTLY match" statements have caused.

Dear CSA

regarding the relation between load, frequency, excitation and VARs it is very clear to me
now. so thank you so much. But I need to read your explanation more and more for
certain points.

Again thank you so much


Posted by CSA on 31 October, 2012 - 11:16 am
Kamel,

You are welcome for whatever help I may have provided. I learn a LOT from
contributing to control.com, and one of the things I learn is that a single description or
answer doesn't work for everyone's question, even if the question is the same as someone
else's question. So, have patience as I try to find what works for you.

Posted by Kamel on 1 November, 2012 - 2:00 am
thank you so much

Posted by raja on 7 March, 2013 - 12:12 am
thank you so much.

please can some one explain me about the excitation and avr....and how the avr gets
power and about its connections and then about the exciter.
can mail me also on tauseefraja@yahoo.com.

from the basic of avr how it is connected and power and how it control.

Posted by peterjh101 on 8 March, 2013 - 12:20 am
You will find an excellent paper on alternator excitation and AVRs from Basler here:

www.basler.com/downloads/VR_parallel.pdf

Posted by JP_1010 on 16 March, 2013 - 11:20 am
Dear All,

It's interesting that this topic poped up.

A client mentioned to me, he uses a genset (400kw) to run a process.
This engine was damaged beyond repair (con rod went through the engine block) and I
suspect, its a result of an incorrect AVR controller.

In his rush to get his process up and running, they decided to retro fit and use another
engine of similar Hp rating, but was not made for a generator application.(Truck)

I tried and advised against doing this without success.

Contributors, highlight the dangers PLEASE!!

Posted by disco on 30 April, 2014 - 12:03 am
Hi CSA,

thanks for your explanations, really clears a lot up. One thing I can't seem to see is when
2 generators are synchronised with each other and sharing the same load, should the
currents they are producing be the same if set up with droop control?


Posted by CSA on 30 April, 2014 - 11:20 am
Hi, disco,

If only two generators are synchronized together and sharing the same load then one
generator should be operating in Isochronous speed control and the other should be
operating in Droop speed control. In this manner, the Isochronous unit will adjust its
power output automatically as load is increased or decreased to keep frequency very
close to rated. The Droop unit will not do anything as load changes (automatically it
won't do anything) as load changes and the Isochronous unit varies its load to maintain
frequency. The amount of load carried by each unit is basically a function of how much
load is being carried by the Droop unit.

Here's an example. Suppose the total load is approximately 1.0 MW and the two
generator-sets are each rated at 1.0 MW. When only one unit is operating it should be
operated in Isochronous speed control to automatically maintain rated frequency as load
changes. The second, unit, when synchronized to the first unit should be in Droop speed
control when it's generator breaker closes. Let's say at the present time the total load is
approximately 0.8 MW, and the Isochronous unit was supplying all of the power and then
the second unit was synchronized to the Isochronous unit. As the load on the second unit,
which should be operating in Droop speed control, is increased the load on the
Isochronous unit will decrease (we are presuming the load is stable at this time and is not
changing). So, as the operator increases the load on the Droop unit to 0.1 MW the load on
the Isochronous unit will automatically decrease 0.1 MW to 0.7 MW, and as the operator
increases the load on the droop unit to 0.2 MW the load on the Isochronous unit will
automatically decrease to 0.6 MW. The total load is still 0.8 MW, but the share of the
total load being carried by each unit is determined by how the operator decides to split
the load--by controlling the load on the Droop unit (yes, the Droop unit--because the
Isochronous unit is automatically adjusting its power output as necessary to maintain
rated frequency). If the load on the Isochronous unit gets too close zero MW, the operator
will need to unload the Droop unit so that the Isochronous unit will trip on reverse power
if the total load decreases such that the load on the Isochronous unit dropped below zero
MW.

Now let's say the Isochronous unit needs to be shut down for maintenance (an oil- and air
filter change, for example). The operator would increase the load on the Droop unit until
the load on the Isochronous unit dropped to zero MW, then the operator would open the
generator breaker of the Isochronous unit, and quickly switch the governor of the Droop
unit to Isochronous so it would automatically adjust its load to maintain rated frequency
as load changes.

In this scenario, when one unit is operating in Isochronous speed control and the other is
operating in Droop speed control the amount of load on each machine is a function of
how much load the operator chooses to put on the Droop unit. If the operator puts 50% of
the present total load on the Droop unit, then 50% of the total load will be on the
Isochronous unit--and the current outputs of both units will be the same. (Operators
cannot change the load on the Isochronous unit by manually adjusting the governor of the
Isochronous unit. Isochronous speed control automatically adjusts its governor and the
load being carried by the unit to maintain rated speed--as the total load on the system
changes. If an operator tries to change the load on the Isochronous unit, what will happen
(unless there is some kind of unusual Isochronous load control scheme in use) is that the
frequency of the system will change from rated. The load on the Isochronous unit is a
function of how much of the total load is being carried by the Droop unit, and how much
the total load is changing.)

It is possible to have both turbines in the same condition operating in Droop control--
however every time the load changes (every time someone starts or stops a motor, or
turns a light on or off, or turns a computer and its monitor on or off) then an operator is
going to have to manually change the load of one of the two Droop units in order to
maintain rated frequency. Droop speed control doesn't care if the frequency is higher or
lower than rated--and by that I mean it doesn't try to automatically adjust its load to
maintain rated frequency.

Droop speed control units presume there is a unit operating in Isochronous speed control
somewhere on the grid that will adjust its load to maintain rated frequency. (On very
large, "infinite" grids, this is not the case; grid operators adjust the loads of one or many
Droop units to maintain grid frequency as load changes. Sometimes this is done via some
automatic control system; sometimes it's done manually by the grid operators.)

So, if two generator-sets are synchronized together supplying a common load and both
are operating in Droop speed control mode, then the operator is the one who has to sense
changes in load (when the frequency changes) and adjust the load on one or both units to
maintain rated frequency--which is not automatic control at all. When the operator gets
the loads on the two units to the point that the frequency is at rated, if the load doesn't
change the frequency will remain at rated. But, if the load changes, the frequency will
change and the operator will have to change load on one or both units to get the
frequency back to rated.

If two generator-sets were synchronized together supplying a common load and both
were operating in Droop speed control, it would be possible for the operator to adjust the
loads on the two units such that the current being produced by each machine was equal
(which would mean the same share of load being carried by each machine: 50% of the
present load). But, as soon as a motor is started or stopped, or lights are turned on or off,
or computers and computer monitors are turned on or off, the frequency of both machines
will change and the load on both machines will change--until the operator makes an
adjustment to one or both units to return the frequency to rated. The share of the load on
each machine is determined by how the operator adjusts the load on each machine.

Now, some sites use a load-sharing controller/scheme to adjust the loads on multiple
units all operating in Droop speed control mode. Why? Probably because someone felt it
was simpler than relying on operators to balance loads so the Isochronous unit would not
be over- or under-loaded. And, probably because someone (in the purchaser's
organization or the plant design organization) had a bad experience with operating an
island load with one generator-set operating in Isochronous speed control mode.
Isochronous speed control mode can be difficult to tune (if the governors of the
generator-set prime movers are not similar). And, it takes some training and experience
for operators to understand how to control load on an island without tripping the
generator(s) or causing frequency fluctuations--and most operators don't ever get that
training, except by experience. And, that usually means bad experience (tripping;
frequency fluctuations; etc.).

Does this help?


Posted by CSA on 30 April, 2014 - 2:40 pm
Hi, disco,

There are many descriptions of Droop speed control that use the word "share". Share can
be interpreted to mean several different things. In this context, "share" means that units
operating in Droop speed control will not try to hog all of the load or give up all of the
load when the load changes. If two units are synchronized together and supplying a load
they will fight each other to try to maintain frequency--and the fight is VERY ugly, with
violent load swings and likely breakers tripping and black-outs. (There are some
Isochronous Load Sharing control schemes available but they are really just de-tuned
Isochronous units and they require additional communication and control between the
units. They work, but usually not very well-and again, they still require human, manual
supervision to work well.)

Sharing the load also means that when the load on the system (whether it be one Droop
unit or hundreds of Droop units) exceeds the torque being produced by the generator
prime movers and the frequency begins to decrease that any Droop unit not operating at
its rated power output will pick up part of the load in order to help keep the frequency
from spiraling downward (to stabilize the frequency), and the amount of the load they
will pick-up is proportional to their rating and to their Droop setpoint. In other words,
they will "share" the load change when the frequency changes (decreases or increases) in
proportion to their Droop setpoint and the amount of the frequency change. (This is kind
a of a difficult concept to explain and to understand without an example, and that can fill
a large pamphlet/small book.)

Sharing load (current), again, is kind of a poor term to describe Droop speed control--
which is first and foremost a governor mode that permits many generators and their prime
movers to stably produce power at a desired frequency to a load that is much larger than
any single generator and it's prime mover could provide by itself. Again, two or more
units trying to operate in Isochronous speed control when synchronized together (without
some kind of Isochronous Load-sharing scheme) will not control frequency very well,
and their power outputs will not be very stable or constant (unless the load is very stable
and constant). Units operating in Droop speed control will not have such large (violent)
load swings; in fact, they are, by definition, producing power at a very stable rate.

It is a side-benefit of Droop speed control, that as frequency begins to drift from rated
that it will change the power output in a manner that tends to help stabilize and support
grid frequency from spiraling out of control (low or high)--until such times as operator(s)
somewhere make the appropriate changes to one or more Droop units to return the system
frequency to rated.

So, be very careful to understand exactly how the word "share" is being used when trying
to explain Droop speed control.

Again, the most important aspect of Droop speed control is that it allows multiple units to
participate in supplying power to a load that is much larger than any single unit could
supply by itself--and do so in a stable and controlled manner. This is opposed to what
happens when two or more Isochronous speed control units are synchronized together
(without some form of Isochronous Load-sharing--which is not ever fully automatic and
requires additional communication and control). AC power systems operate at desired
frequencies, and since generator speed, and hence prime mover speed, is proportional to
frequency the frequency can be sensed and controlled by monitoring speed.

At the present time, there are really only two modes of governor control for generator
prime movers: Isochronous and Droop, both modes of speed control (and, again,
frequency and speed are directly related). And only one of them is the mode that allows
multiple generators to "share" in providing power to a much larger load than any single
generator could provide by itself without load and/or frequency excursions: Droop speed
control. The alternative, Isochronous speed control, doesn't allow multiple generators to
be synchronized together and stably "share" in providing power to large load.

There are side-benefits to using Droop speed control, but the primary one is that it allows
multiple generators and their prime movers to be synchronized together, acting as one
generator, to power a load that is much larger than any single generator and its prime
mover could supply by itself. And do so in a very stable and controlled fashion--which
Isochronous speed control isn't capable of without external communications and control
schemes.


Posted by CSA on 1 May, 2014 - 10:32 am
CORRECTION:

> If two units are synchronized together and supplying a load they will fight each other to
try
> to maintain frequency--and the fight is VERY ugly, with violent load swings and
> likely breakers tripping and black-outs.

It should have read:

If two Isochronous units are synchronized together and supplying a load they will fight
each other to try to maintain frequency--and the fight is VERY ugly, with violent (large)
load swings and likely breakers tripping and black-outs.

Again, in the power generation industry there are really only two modes of operation:
Isochronous speed control and Droop speed control. Speed control is critical because AC
power systems are supposed to operate at a particular frequency, and speed and frequency
are directly related. And without some special control communications and schemes and
de-tuning multiple generators-sets using Isochronous speed control is not well-suited for
large or "infinite" systems. Droop speed control is the preferred method for allowing
multiple generator-sets to be synchronized together and stably participate in supplying
large loads.

Posted by disco on 4 May, 2014 - 10:59 pm
Thanks for the info. Very much appreciated. I am just trying to get my head around it all.
We have an issue at the moment when running 2 gensets in parallel we are getting
blackouts when running running them on full load. They are operated in Droop speed
control and the voltages and frequency don't change but the current in one seems to
always be a lot higher than the other and I couldn't explain why their currents were
different if they were supposed to be load sharing. (I assumed they would share 50% of
the load each).


Posted by CSA on 5 May, 2014 - 5:00 pm
disco,

I'm always curious when I hear people say their islanded units are always operated in
parallel in Droop mode with no unit in Isoch mode, or when they say their islanded units
are always operated in parallel in Isoch mode. The only way this could occur is if there is
some kind of external or interconnected control scheme between the two governors, or if
the load is very stable. For one example, use your preferred Internet search engine and
look for "Woodward DSLC". You should find some information about an external
control system that can control multiple generator-sets operating in Isochronous control.

Because, unless there is some kind of control scheme for either of the above scenarios
which "supervises" the generator-sets and balances load while maintaining frequency, it's
pretty hard to understand how simple governors could do so without frequency
excursions and a lot of operator adjustments.

It's a rather common misconception, actually, that two similar or identical generator sets
will equally share the load when paralleled together and supplying a small "island" load
(independent of a larger grid and other generators and their prime movers). Again, the
only "communication" every governor shares with every other governor is speed--which
is directly proportional to frequency on synchronous AC machines. Something has to tell
them to change their energy flow-rates in order to "balance" (equally share) the total load.
That could even be a human operator, presuming the load wasn't changing very rapidly.

The unit with the higher current is supplying more power to the total load. And if that is
causing the prime mover to be running at full rated power output then it's conceivable
that the unit could be tripping on excessive power, and that overloads the remaining
generator resulting in a blackout.

My guess is that the one generator with the higher current is definitely at or near it's
rating, and that when additional motors or lights or computer and computer monitors are
started/turned on the one machine goes into overload and that starts the blackout.

Some operator, or some automatic control system, needs to be adjusting the load to more
equally balance the loads on the two so that an increase in load doesn't result in a
blackout. On two machines running in Droop with no external control scheme that can be
a tricky thing to do while maintaining frequency.

And, that's the part that really piques my curiosity--when you (and others) say the
frequency is stable. When the load is stable, I would say that's probably true for two
simple governors operating in parallel in Droop mode. But, when the load changes, the
frequency isn't going to be at rated, and it may not be very stable, either. If you want
good control of frequency with two generator-sets operating in parallel to power a load
independent of a larger grid then one of them should be in Isochronous mode--but
someone, or some control system, needs to be continually adjusting the load on the Droop
machine to make sure the Isochronous machine from reaching maximum, and from
reaching minimum, too.

There's just something that we don't understand about the configuration of the units at
your site. But, I can definitely say that without some other "intervention" two similar
generator-sets will not automatically equally share load. Someone or something has to do
that--either a human or a control system programmed by a human which is sending
signals to both generator-set governors.

Hope you can write back with more details!

Posted by Mine on 20 September, 2014 - 8:42 am
One more question:

where is the limit point between Generator terminals and grid?

The other day, by increasing excitation, we detected voltage increased in MV auxiliary
bus-bar.

Can anyone explain this matter, as I thought the point where aux. transformer is located is
constant voltage (grid voltage)?

best regards.

Posted by CSA on 23 September, 2014 - 3:48 pm
One more answer:

You did not say how much you say this MV auxiliary bus-bar voltage change. 10V?
100V 1000V?

What was the pf of the generator at the time of this incident? What was the reactive
current value (MVars)? What was the load (MW)?

Some sites are more able to have an effect on grid voltage than others. Some can have no
appreciable effect at all; others can have a profound effect. The factors are many and
include distance from nearest generator; size of generator in relation to nearest
generator(s); reactance of transmission lines and transformers. Even the load
characteristics can cause changes in the ability of a generator to effect grid voltage; at
some time of the day the load may be nearly resistive, while at other times it may be
highly inductive or somewhat capacitive in nature.

AC power systems are typically explained in terms of ideal systems, but rarely do they
actually follow ideal characteristics. This actually happens a lot: When things are first
noticed, they are considered to be abnormal. Or, more often, when control systems are
upgraded or modified to display new/additional information all of a sudden the refrain is,
"That's never happened before!" when, in fact, it was happening all along, but it wasn't
visible/displayed or being paid attention to previously.

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