25/09/14 The Kubrick Site: Kubrick speaks in regard to 'Barry Lyndon'

www.visual-memory.co.uk/amk/doc/interview.bl.html 1/11

KubrickonBarryLyndon
AninterviewwithMichelCiment
MichelCiment:YouhavegivenalmostnointerviewsonBarryLyndon.Doesthis
decisionrelatetothisfilmparticularly,orisitbecauseyouarereluctanttospeak
aboutyourwork?
StanleyKubrick:Isupposemyexcuseisthatthepicturewasreadyonlyafew
weeksbeforeitopenedandIreallyhadnotimetodoanyinterviews.ButifI'mto
becompletelyhonest,it'sprobablyduemoretothefactthatIdon'tlikedoing
interviews.Thereisalwaystheproblemofbeingmisquotedor,what'seven
worse,ofbeingquotedexactly,andhavingtoseewhatyou'vesaidinprint.Then
therearethemandatory"HowdidyougetalongwithactorX,YorZ?""Who
reallythoughtofgoodideaA,BorC?"IthinkNabokovmayhavehadtheright
approachtointerviews.Hewouldonlyagreetowritedowntheanswersandthen
sendthemontotheinterviewerwhowouldthenwritethequestions.
DoyoufeelthatBarryLyndonisamoresecretfilm,moredifficulttotalkabout?
Notreally.I'vealwaysfounditdifficulttotalkaboutanyofmyfilms.WhatI
generallymanagetodoistodiscussthebackgroundinformationconnectedwith
thestory,orperhapssomeoftheinterestingfactswhichmightbeassociatedwith
it.Thisapproachoftenallowsmetoavoidthe"Whatdoesitmean?Whydidyou
doit?"questions.Forexample,withDr.StrangeloveIcouldtalkaboutthe
spectrumofbizarreideasconnectedwiththepossibilitiesofaccidentalor
unintentionalwarfare.2001:ASpaceOdysseyallowedspeculationaboutultra
intelligentcomputers,lifeintheuniverse,andawholerangeofsciencefiction
ideas.AClockworkOrangeinvolvedlawandorder,criminalviolence,authority
versusfreedom,etc.WithBarryLyndonyouhaven'tgotthesetopicalissuesto
talkaround,soIsupposethatdoesmakeitabitmoredifficult.
Yourlastthreefilmsweresetinthefuture.Whatledyoutomakeanhistorical
film?
Ican'thonestlysaywhatledmetomakeanyofmyfilms.ThebestIcandoisto
sayIjustfellinlovewiththestories.Goingbeyondthatisabitliketryingto
explainwhyyoufellinlovewithyourwife:she'sintelligent,hasbrowneyes,a
goodfigure.Haveyoureallysaidanything?SinceIamcurrentlygoingthrough
theprocessoftryingtodecidewhatfilmtomakenext,Irealizejusthow
uncontrollableisthebusinessoffindingastory,andhowmuchitdependson
chanceandspontaneousreaction.Youcansayalotof"architectural"things
aboutwhatafilmstoryshouldhave:astrongplot,interestingcharacters,
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possibilitiesforcinematicdevelopment,goodopportunitiesfortheactorsto
displayemotion,andthepresentationofitsthematicideastruthfullyand
intelligently.But,ofcourse,thatstilldoesn'treallyexplainwhyyoufinallychose
something,nordoesitleadyoutoastory.Youcanonlysaythatyouprobably
wouldn'tchooseastorythatdoesn'thavemostofthosequalities.
Sinceyouarecompletelyfreeinyourchoiceofstorymaterial,howdidyoucome
topickupabookbyThackeray,almostforgottenandhardlyrepublishedsincethe
nineteenthcentury?
IhavehadacompletesetofThackeraysittingonmybookshelfathomeforyears,
andIhadtoreadseveralofhisnovelsbeforereadingBarryLyndon.Atonetime,
VanityFairinterestedmeasapossiblefilmbut,intheend,Idecidedthestory
couldnotbesuccessfullycompressedintotherelativelyshorttimespanofa
featurefilm.Thisproblemoflength,bytheway,isnowwonderfully
accommodatedforbythetelevisionminiserieswhich,withitstentotwelvehour
length,pressedonconsecutivenights,hascreatedacompletelydifferent
dramaticform.Anyway,assoonasIreadBarryLyndonIbecameveryexcited
aboutit.Ilovedthestoryandthecharacters,anditseemedpossibletomakethe
transitionfromnoveltofilmwithoutdestroyingitintheprocess.Italsoofferedthe
opportunitytodooneofthethingsthatmoviescandobetterthananyotherart
form,andthatistopresenthistoricalsubjectmatter.Descriptionisnotoneofthe
thingsthatnovelsdobestbutitissomethingthatmoviesdoeffortlessly,atleast
withrespecttotheeffortrequiredoftheaudience.Thisisequallytrueforscience
fictionandfantasy,whichoffervisualchallengesandpossibilitiesyoudon'tfindin
contemporarystories.
Howdidyoucometoadoptathirdpersoncommentaryinsteadofthefirstperson
narrativewhichisfoundinthebook?
IbelieveThackerayusedRedmondBarrytotellhisownstoryinadeliberately
distortedwaybecauseitmadeitmoreinteresting.Insteadoftheomniscient
author,Thackerayusedtheimperfectobserver,orperhapsitwouldbemore
accuratetosaythedishonestobserver,thusallowingthereadertojudgefor
himself,withlittledifficulty,theprobabletruthinRedmondBarry'sviewofhislife.
Thistechniqueworkedextremelywellinthenovelbut,ofcourse,inafilmyou
haveobjectiverealityinfrontofyouallofthetime,sotheeffectofThackeray's
firstpersonstorytellercouldnotberepeatedonthescreen.Itmighthaveworked
ascomedybythejuxtapositionofBarry'sversionofthetruthwiththerealityonthe
screen,butIdon'tthinkthatBarryLyndonshouldhavebeendoneasacomedy.
Youdidn'tthinkofhavingnocommentary?
Thereistoomuchstorytotell.Avoiceoversparesyouthecumbersomebusiness
oftellingthenecessaryfactsofthestorythroughexpositionaldialoguescenes
whichcanbecomeverytiresomeandfrequentlyunconvincing:"Cursetheblasted
stormthat'swreckedourblessedship!"Voiceover,ontheotherhand,isa
perfectlylegitimateandeconomicalwayofconveyingstoryinformationwhich
doesnotneeddramaticweightandwhichwouldotherwisebetoobulkyto
dramatize.
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Butyouuseitinotherwaytocooldowntheemotionofascene,andto
anticipatethestory.Forinstance,justafterthemeetingwiththeGermanpeasant
girlaverymovingscenethevoiceovercompareshertoatownhavingbeen
oftenconqueredbysiege.
Inthescenethatyou'rereferringto,thevoiceoverworksasanironiccounterpoint
towhatyouseeportrayedbytheactorsonthescreen.Thisisonlyaminor
sequenceinthestoryandhastobepresentedwitheconomy.Barryistenderand
romanticwiththegirlbutallhereallywantsistogetherintobed.Thegirlislonely
andBarryisattractiveandattentive.Ifyouthinkaboutit,itisn'tlikelythatheisthe
onlysoldiershehasbroughthomewhileherhusbandhasbeenawaytothewars.
YoucouldhavehadBarrygivesignalstotheaudience,throughhisperformance,
indicatingthatheisreallyinsincereandopportunistic,butthiswouldbeunreal.
Whenwetrytodeceiveweareasconvincingaswecanbe,aren'twe?
Thefilm'scommentaryalsoservesanotherpurpose,butthistimeinmuchthe
samemanneritdidinthenovel.Thestoryhasmanytwistsandturns,and
ThackerayusesBarrytogiveyouhintsinadvanceofmostoftheimportantplot
developments,thuslesseningtheriskoftheirseemingcontrived.
WhenheisgoingtomeettheChevalierBalibari,thecommentaryanticipatesthe
emotionsweareabouttosee,thuspossiblylesseningtheireffect.
BarryLyndonisastorywhichdoesnotdependuponsurprise.Whatisimportant
isnotwhatisgoingtohappen,buthowitwillhappen.IthinkThackeraytradesoff
theadvantageofsurprisetogainagreatersenseofinevitabilityandabetter
integrationofwhatmightotherwiseseemmelodramaticorcontrived.Inthescene
yourefertowhereBarrymeetstheChevalier,thefilm'svoiceoverestablishesthe
necessarygroundworkfortheimportantnewrelationshipwhichisrapidlyto
developbetweenthetwomen.BytalkingaboutBarry'slonelinessbeingsofar
fromhome,hissenseofisolationasanexile,andhisjoyatmeetingafellow
countrymaninaforeignland,thecommentarypreparesthewayforthescenes
whicharequicklytofollowshowinghiscloseattachmenttotheChevalier.
AnotherplaceinthestorywhereIthinkthistechniqueworksparticularlywellis
wherewearetoldthatBarry'syoungson,Bryan,isgoingtodieatthesametime
wewatchthetwoofthemplayinghappilytogether.Inthiscase,Ithinkthe
commentarycreatesthesamedramaticeffectas,forexample,theknowledgethat
theTitanicisdoomedwhileyouwatchthecarefreescenesofpreparationand
departure.Theseearlysceneswouldbeinexplicablydullifyoudidn'tknowabout
theship'sappointmentwiththeiceberg.Beingtoldinadvanceoftheimpending
disastergivesawaysurprisebutcreatessuspense.
Thereisverylittleintrospectioninthefilm.Barryisopenabouthisfeelingsatthe
beginningofthefilm,butthenhebecomeslessso.
Atthebeginningofthestory,Barryhasmorepeoplearoundhimtowhomhecan
expresshisfeelings.Asthestoryprogresses,andparticularlyafterhismarriage,
hebecomesmoreandmoreisolated.Thereisfinallynoonewholoveshim,or
withwhomhecantalkfreely,withthepossibleexceptionofhisyoungson,whois
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toououngtobeofmuchhelp.AtthesametimeIdon'tthinkthatthelackof
introspectivedialoguescenesareanylosstothestory.Barry'sfeelingsarethere
tobeseenashereactstotheincreasinglydifficultcircumstancesofhislife.Ithink
thisisequallytruefortheothercharactersinthestory.Inanyevent,scenesof
peopletalkingaboutthemselvesareoftenverydull.
Incontrasttofilmswhicharepreoccupiedwithanalyzingthepsychologyofthe
characters,yourstendtomaintainamysteryaroundthem.ReverendRunt,for
instance,isaveryopaqueperson.Youdon'tknowexactlywhathismotivations
are.
ButyouknowalotaboutReverendRunt,certainlyallthatisnecessary.He
dislikesBarry.HeissecretlyinlovewithLadyLyndon,inhisownprim,
repressed,littleway.Hislittlesmileoftriumph,inthesceneinthecoach,nearthe
endofthefilm,tellsyouallyouneedtoknowregardingthewayhefeelsabout
Barry'smisfortune,andthewaythingshaveworkedout.Youcertainlydon'thave
thetimeinafilmtodevelopthemotivationsofminorcharacters.
LadyLyndonisevenmoreopaque.
Thackeraydoesn'ttellyouagreatdealaboutherinthenovel.Ifoundthatvery
strange.Hedoesn'tgiveyoualottogoon.Thereare,infact,veryfewdialogue
sceneswithherinthebook.Perhapshemeanthertobesomethingofamystery.
Butthefilmgivesyouasufficientunderstandingofheranyway.
Youmadeimportantchangesinyouradaptation,suchastheinventionofthelast
duel,andtheendingitself.
Yes,Idid,butIwassatisfiedthattheywereconsistentwiththespiritofthenovel
andbroughtthestorytoaboutthesameplacethenoveldid,butinlesstime.In
thebook,BarryispensionedoffbyLadyLyndon.LordBullingdon,havingbeen
believeddead,returnsfromAmerica.HefindsBarryandgiveshimabeating.
Barry,tendedbyhismother,subsequentlydiesinprison,adrunk.This,and
everythingthatwentalongwithitinthenoveltomakeitcrediblewouldhave
takentoomuchtimeonthescreen.Inthefilm,Bullingdongetshisrevengeand
Barryistotallydefeated,destined,onecanassume,forafatenotunlikethat
whichawaitedhiminthenovel.
Andthesceneofthetwohomosexualsinthelakewasnotinthebookeither.
TheproblemherewashowtogetBarryoutoftheBritishArmy.Thesectionofthe
bookdealingwiththisisalsofairlylengthyandcomplicated.
Thefunctionofthescenebetweenthetwogayofficerswastoprovideasimpler
wayforBarrytoescape.Again,itleadstothesameendresultasthenovelbutby
adifferentroute.BarrystealsthepapersanduniformofaBritishofficerwhich
allowhimtomakehiswaytofreedom.Sincethesceneispurelyexpositional,the
comicsituationhelpstomaskyourintentions.
Wereyouawareofthemultipleechoesthatarefoundinthefilm:flogginginthe
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army,floggingathome,theduels,etc.,andthenarrativestructureresemblingthat
ofAClockworkOrange?Doesthisgeometricalpatternattractyou?
Thenarrativesymmetryaroseprimarilyoutoftheneedsoftellingthestoryrather
thanaspartofaconsciousdesign.Theartisticprocessyougothroughinmaking
afilmisasmuchamatterofdiscoveryasitistheexecutionofaplan.Yourfirst
responsibilityinwritingascreenplayistopaytheclosestpossibleattentiontothe
author'sideasandmakesureyoureallyunderstandwhathehaswrittenandwhy
hehaswrittenit.Iknowthissoundsprettyobviousbutyou'dbesurprisedhow
oftenthisisnotdone.Thereisatendencyforthescreenplaywritertobe
"creative"tooquickly.Thenextthingistomakesurethatthestorysurvivesthe
selectionandcompressionwhichhastooccurinordertotellitinamaximumof
threehours,andpreferablytwo.Thisphaseusuallysealsthefateofmostmajor
novels,whichreallyneedthelargecanvasuponwhichtheyarepresented.
InthefirstpartofAClockworkOrange,wewereagainstAlex.Inthesecondpart,
wewereonhisside.Inthisfilm,theattraction/repulsionfeelingtowardsBarryis
presentthroughout.
Thackerayreferredtoitas"anovelwithoutahero".Barryisnaiveand
uneducated.Heisdrivenbyarelentlessambitionforwealthandsocialposition.
Thisprovestobeanunfortunatecombinationofqualitieswhicheventuallyleadto
greatmisfortuneandunhappinessforhimselfandthosearoundhim.Your
feelingsaboutBarryaremixedbuthehascharmandcourage,anditis
impossiblenottolikehimdespitehisvanity,hisinsensitivityandhisweaknesses.
Heisaveryrealcharacterwhoisneitheraconventionalheronoraconventional
villain.
Thefeelingthatwehaveattheendisoneofutterwaste.
Perhapsmoreasenseoftragedy,andbecauseofthisthestorycanassimilatethe
twistsandturnsoftheplotwithoutbecomingmelodrama.Melodramausesallthe
problemsoftheworld,andthedifficultiesanddisasterswhichbefallthe
characters,todemonstratethattheworldis,afterall,abenevolentandjustplace.
Thelastsentencewhichsaysthatallthecharactersarenowequalcanbetaken
asanihilisticorreligiousstatement.Fromyourfilms,onehasthefeelingthatyou
areanihilistwhowouldliketobelieve.
Ithinkyou'llfindthatitismerelyanironicpostscripttakenfromthenovel.Its
meaningseemsquitecleartomeand,asfarasI'mconcerned,ithasnothingto
dowithnihilismorreligion.
Onehasthefeelinginyourfilmsthattheworldisinaconstantstateofwar.The
apesarefightingin2001.Thereisfighting,too,inPathsOfGlory,andDr.
Strangelove.InBarryLyndon,youhaveawarinthefirstpart,andtheninthe
secondpartwefindthehomeisabattleground,too.
Dramaisconflict,andviolentconflictdoesnotfinditsexclusivedomaininmy
films.Norisituncommonforafilmtobebuiltaroundasituationwhereviolent
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conflictisthedrivingforce.WithrespecttoBarryLyndon,afterhissuccessful
struggletoachievewealthandsocialposition,Barryprovestobebadlyunsuited
tothisrole.Hehasclawedhiswayintoagildedcage,andonceinsidehislife
goesreallybad.Theviolentconflictswhichsubsequentlyarisecomeinevitably
asaresultofthecharactersandtheirrelationships.Barry'searlyconflictscarry
himforthintolifeandtheybringhimadventureandhappiness,butthoseinlater
lifeleadonlytopainandeventuallytotragedy.
Inmanyways,thefilmremindsusofsilentmovies.Iamthinkingparticularlyofthe
seductionofLadyLyndonbyBarryatthegamblingtable.
That'sgood.Ithinkthatsilentfilmsgotalotmorethingsrightthantalkies.Barry
andLadyLyndonsitatthegamingtableandexchangelingeringlooks.Theydo
notsayaword.LadyLyndongoesoutonthebalconyforsomeair.Barryfollows
heroutside.Theygazelonginglyintoeachother'seyesandkiss.Stillnotaword
isspoken.It'sveryromantic,butatthesametime,Ithinkitsuggeststheempty
attractiontheyhaveforeachotherthatistodisappearasquicklyasitarose.It
setsthestageforeverythingthatistofollowintheirrelationship.Theactors,the
imagesandtheSchubertworkedwelltogether,Ithink.
DidyouhaveSchubert'sTrioinmindwhilepreparingandshootingthisparticular
scene?
No,Idecidedonitwhilewewereediting.Initially,Ithoughtitwasrighttouseonly
eighteenthcenturymusic.Butsometimesyoucanmakegroundrulesforyourself
whichproveunnecessaryandcounterproductive.IthinkImusthavelistenedto
everyLPyoucanbuyofeighteenthcenturymusic.Oneoftheproblemswhich
soonbecameapparentisthattherearenotragiclovethemesineighteenth
centurymusic.SoeventuallyIdecidedtouseSchubert'sTrioinEFlat,Opus100,
writtenin1828.It'samagnificentpieceofmusicandithasjusttherightrestrained
balancebetweenthetragicandtheromanticwithoutgettingintotheheadierstuff
oflaterRomanticism.
YoualsocheatedinanotherwaybyhavingLeonardRosenmanorchestrate
Handel'sSarabandeinamoredramaticstylethanyouwouldfindineighteenth
centurycomposition.
Thisarosefromanotherproblemabouteighteenthcenturymusicitisn'tvery
dramatic,either.IfirstcameacrosstheHandelthemeplayedonaguitarand,
strangelyenough,itmademethinkofEnnioMorricone.Ithinkitworkedverywell
inthefilm,andtheverysimpleorchestrationkeptitfromsoundingoutofplace.
Italsoaccompaniesthelastduelnotpresentinthenovelwhichisoneofthe
moststrikingscenesinthefilmandissetinadovecote.
Thesettingwasatithebarnwhichalsohappenedtohavealotofpigeonsresting
intherafters.We'veseenmanyduelsbeforeinfilms,andIwantedtofinda
differentandinterestingwaytopresentthescene.Thesoundofthepigeons
addedsomethingtothis,and,ifitwereacomedy,wecouldhavehadfurther
evidenceofthepigeons.Anyway,youtendtoexpectmovieduelstobefought
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outdoors,possiblyinamistygroveoftreesatdawn.Ithoughttheideaofplacing
theduelinabarngaveitaninterestingdifference.Thisideacamequiteby
accidentwhenoneofthelocationscoutsreturnedwithsomephotographsofthe
barn.IthinkitwasJoycewhoobservedthataccidentsaretheportalstodiscovery.
Well,that'scertainlytrueinmakingfilms.Andperhapsinmuchthesameway,
thereisanaspectoffilmmakingwhichcanbecomparedtoasportingcontest.
Youcanstartwithagameplanbutdependingonwheretheballbouncesand
wheretheothersidehappenstobe,opportunitiesandproblemsarisewhichcan
onlybeeffectivelydealtwithatthatverymoment.
In2001:ASpaceOdyssey,forexample,thereseemednocleverwayforHALto
learnthatthetwoastronautsdistrustedhimandwereplanningtodisconnecthis
brain.Itwouldhavebeenirritatinglycarelessofthemtotalkaloud,knowingthat
HALwouldhearandunderstandthem.Thentheperfectsolutionpresenteditself
fromtheactualphsicallayoutofthespacepodinthepodbay.Thetwomenwent
intothepodandturnedoffeveryswitchtomakethemsafefromHAL's
microphones.Theysatinthepodfacingeachotherandinthecenteroftheshot,
visiblethroughthesoundproofglassport,youcouldplainlyseetheredglowof
HAL'sbugeyelens,somefifteenfeetaway.Whattheconspiratorsdidn'tthinkof
wasthatHALwouldbeabletoreadtheirlips.
Didyoufinditmoreconstricting,lessfree,makinganhistoricalfilmwhereweall
havepreciseconceptionsofaperiod?Wasitmoreofachallenge?
No,becauseatleastyouknowwhateverythinglookedlike.In2001:ASpace
Odysseyeverythinghadtobedesigned.Butneithertypeoffilmiseasytodo.In
historicalandfuturisticfilms,thereisaninverserelationshipbetweentheeasethe
audiencehastakinginataglancethesets,costumesanddecor,andthefilm
maker'sproblemsincreatingit.Wheneverythingyouseehastobedesignedand
constructed,yougreatlyincreasethecostofthefilm,addtremendouslytoallthe
normalproblemsoffilmmaking,makingitvirtuallyimpossibletohavethe
flexibilityoflastminutechangeswhichyoucanmanageinacontemporaryfilm.
Youarewellknownforthethoroughnesswithwhichyouaccumulateinformation
anddoresearchwhenyouworkonaproject.Isitforyouthethrillofbeinga
reporteroradetective?
Isupposeyoucouldsayitisabitlikebeingadetective.OnBarryLyndon,I
accumulatedaverylargepicturefileofdrawingsandpaintingstakenfromart
books.Thesepicturesservedasthereferenceforeverythingweneededtomake
clothes,furniture,handprops,architecture,vehicles,etc.Unfortunately,the
pictureswouldhavebeentooawkwardtousewhiletheywerestillinthebooks,
andI'mafraidwefinallyhadveryguiltilytotearupalotofbeautifulartbooks.
Theywereall,fortunately,stillinprintwhichmadeitseemalittlelesssinful.Good
researchisanabsolutenecessityandIenjoydoingit.Youhaveanimportant
reasontostudyasubjectinmuchgreaterdepththanyouwouldeverhavedone
otherwise,andthenyouhavethesatisfactionofputtingtheknowledgeto
immediategooduse.Thedesignsfortheclotheswereallcopiedfromdrawings
andpaintingsoftheperiod.Noneofthemweredesignedinthenormalsense.
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Thisisthebestway,inmyopinion,tomakehistoricalcostumes.Itdoesn'tseem
sensibletohaveadesignerinterpretsaytheeighteenthcentury,usingthe
samepicturesourcesfromwhichyoucouldfaithfullycopytheclothes.Neitheris
theremuchpointsketchingthecostumesagainwhentheyarealreadybeautifully
representedinthepaintingsanddrawingsoftheperiod.Whatisveryimportantis
togetsomeactualclothesoftheperiodtolearnhowtheywereoriginallymade.
Togetthemtolookright,youreallyhavetomakethemthesameway.Consider
alsotheproblemoftasteindesigningclothes,evenfortoday.Onlyahandfulof
designersseemtohaveasenseofwhatisstrikingandbeautiful.Howcana
designer,howeverbrilliant,haveafeelingfortheclothesofanotherperiodwhich
isequaltothatofthepeopleandthedesignersoftheperioditself,asrecordedin
theirpictures?IspentayearpreparingBarryLyndonbeforetheshootingbegan
andIthinkthistimewasverywellspent.Thestartingpointandsinequanonof
anyhistoricalorfuturisticstoryistomakeyoubelievewhatyousee.
Thedangerinanhistoricalfilmisthatyouloseyourselfindetails,andbecome
decorative.
Thedangerconnectedwithanymultifacetedproblemisthatyoumightpaytoo
muchattentiontosomeoftheproblemstothedetrimentofothers,butIamvery
consciousofthisandImakesureIdon'tdothat.
Whydoyouprefernaturallighting?
Becauseit'sthewayweseethings.Ihavealwaystriedtolightmyfilmsto
simulatenaturallightinthedaytimeusingthewindowsactuallytolighttheset,
andinnightscenesthepracticallightsyouseeintheset.Thisapproachhasits
problemswhenyoucanusebrightelectriclightsources,butwhencandelabras
andoillampsarethebrightestlightsourceswhichcanbeintheset,the
difficultiesarevastlyincreased.PriortoBarryLyndon,theproblemhasnever
beenproperlysolved.Evenifthedirectorandcameramanhadthedesiretolight
withpracticallightsources,thefilmandthelenseswerenotfastenoughtogetan
exposure.A35mmmoviecamerashutterexposesatabout1/50ofasecond,and
auseableexposurewasonlypossiblewithalensatleast100%fasterthanany
whichhadeverbeenusedonamoviecamera.Fortunately,Ifoundjustsucha
lens,oneofagroupoftenwhichZeisshadspeciallymanufacturedforNASA
satellitephotography.ThelenshadaspeedoffO.7,anditwas100%fasterthan
thefastestmovielens.Alotofworkstillhadtobedonetoitandtothecamerato
makeituseable.Foronething,therearelementofthelenshadtobe2.5mm
awayfromthefilmplane,requiringspecialmodificationtotherotatingcamera
shutter.Butwiththislensitwasnowpossibletoshootinlightconditionssodim
thatitwasdifficulttoread.Forthedayinteriorscenes,weusedeitherthereal
daylightfromthewindows,orsimulateddaylightbybankinglightsoutsidethe
windowsanddiffusingthemwithtracingpapertapedontheglass.Inadditionto
theverybeautifullightingyoucanachievethisway,itisalsoaverypracticalway
towork.Youdon'thavetoworryaboutshootingintoyourlightingequipment.All
yourlightingisoutsidethewindowbehindtracingpaper,andifyoushoot
towwardsthewindowyougetaverybeautifulandrealisticflareeffect.
HowdidyoudecideonRyanO'Neal?
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Hewasthebestactorforthepart.HelookedrightandIwasconfidentthathe
possessedmuchgreateractingabilitythanhehadbeenallowedtoshowinmany
ofthefilmshehadpreviouslydone.Inretrospect,Ithinkmyconfidenceinhim
wasfullyjustifiedbyhisperformance,andIstillcan'tthinkofanyonewhowould
havebeenbetterforthepart.Thepersonalqualitiesofanactor,astheyrelateto
therole,arealmostasimportantashisability,andotheractors,say,likeAl
Pacino,JackNicholsonorDustinHoffman,justtonameafewwhoaregreat
actors,wouldneverthelesshavebeenwrongtoplayBarryLyndon.IlikedRyan
andwegotalongverywelltogether.InthisregardtheonlydifficultiesIhaveever
hadwithactorshappenedwhentheiractingtechniquewasn'tgoodenoughtodo
somethingyouaskedofthem.Onewayanactordealswiththisdifficultyisto
inventalotofexcusesthathavenothingtodowiththerealproblem.Thiswas
verywellrepresentedinTruuffaut'sDayForNightwhenValentinaCortese,the
starofthefilmwithinthefilm,hadn'tbotheredtolearnherlinesandclaimedher
dialoguefluffswereduetotheconfusioncreatedbythescriptgirlplayingabit
partinthescene.
Howdoyouexplainsomeofthemisunderstandingsaboutthefilmbythe
AmericanpressandtheEnglishpress?
TheAmericanpresswaspredominantlyenthusiasticaboutthefilm,andTime
magazineranacoverstoryaboutit.Theinternationalpresswasevenmore
enthusiastic.ItistruethattheEnglishpresswasbadlysplit.Butfromthevery
beginning,allofmyfilmshavedividedthecritics.Somehavethoughtthem
wonderful,andothershavefoundverylittlegoodtosay.Butsubsequentcritical
opinionhasalwaysresultedinaveryremarkableshifttothefavorable.Inone
instance,thesamecriticwhooriginallyrappedthefilmhasseveralyearslaterput
itonanalltimebestlist.But,ofcourse,thelastingandultimatelymostimportant
reputationofafilmisnotbasedonreviews,butonwhat,ifanything,peoplesay
aboutitovertheyears,andonhowmuchaffectionforittheyhave.
Youareaninnovator,butatthesametimeyouareveryconsciousoftradition.
Itrytobe,anyway.Ithinkthatoneoftheproblemswithtwentiethcenturyartisits
preoccupationwithsubjectivityandoriginalityattheexpenseofeverythingelse.
Thishasbeenespeciallytrueinpaintingandmusic.Thoughinitiallystimulating,
thissoonimpededthefulldevelopmentofanyparticularstyle,andrewarded
uninterestingandsterileoriginality.Atthesametime,itisverysadtosay,films
havehadtheoppositeproblemtheyhaveconsistentlytriedtoformalizeand
repeatsuccess,andtheyhaveclungtoaformandstyleintroducedintheir
infancy.Thesurethingiswhateveronewants,andoriginalityisnotanicewordin
thiscontext.Thisistruedespitetherepeatedexamplethatnothingisas
dangerousasasurething.
Youhaveabandonedoriginalfilmmusicinyourlastthreefilms.
ExcludeapopmusicscorefromwhatIamabouttosay.Howevergoodourbest
filmcomposersmaybe,theyarenotaBeethoven,aMozartoraBrahms.Whyuse
musicwhichislessgoodwhenthereissuchamultitudeofgreatorchestralmusic
availablefromthepastandfromourowntime?Whenyou'reeditingafilm,it's
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veryhelpfultobeabletotryoutdifferentpiecesofmusictoseehowtheywork
withthescene.Thisisnotatallanuncommonpractice.Well,withalittlemore
careandthought,thesetemporarymusictrackscanbecomethefinalscore.When
Ihadcompletedtheeditingof2001:ASpaceOdyssey,Ihadlaidintemporary
musictracksforalmostallofthemusicwhichwaseventuallyusedinthefilm.
Then,inthenormalway,Iengagedtheservicesofadistinguishedfilmcomposer
towritethescore.AlthoughheandIwentoverthepictureverycarefully,andhe
listenedtothesetemporarytracks(Strauss,Ligeti,Khatchaturian)andagreedthat
theyworkedfineandwouldserveasaguidetothemusicalobjectivesofeach
sequencehe,nevertheless,wroteandrecordedascorewhichcouldnothave
beenmorealientothemusicwehadlistenedto,andmuchmoreseriousthan
that,ascorewhich,inmyopinion,wascompletelyinadequateforthefilm.With
thepremiereloomingup,Ihadnotimelefteventothinkaboutanotherscore
beingwritten,andhadInotbeenabletousethemusicIhadalreadyselectedfor
thetemporarytracksIdon'tknowwhatIwouldhavedone.Thecomposer'sagent
phonedRobertO'Brien,thethenheadofMGM,towarnhimthatifIdidn'tusehis
client'sscorethefilmwouldnotmakeitspremieredate.Butinthatinstance,asin
allothers,O'Brientrustedmyjudgment.Heisawonderfulman,andoneofthe
veryfewfilmbossesabletoinspiregenuineloyaltyandaffectionfromhisfilm
makers.
Whydidyouchoosetohaveonlyoneflashbackinthefilm:thechildfallingfrom
thehorse?
Ididn'twanttospendthetimewhichwouldhavebeenrequiredtoshowtheentire
storyactionofyoungBryansneakingawayfromthehouse,takingthehorse,
falling,beingfound,etc.NordidIwanttolearnabouttheaccidentsolelythrough
thedialoguesceneinwhichthefarmworkers,carryingtheinjuredboy,tellBarry.
Puttingtheflashbackfragmentinthemiddleofthedialoguesceneseemedtobe
therightthingtodo.
Areyourcameramovementsplannedbefore?
Veryrarely.Ithinkthereisvirtuallynopointputtingcamerainstructionsintoa
screenplay,andonlyifsomereallyimportantcameraideaoccurstome,doIwrite
itdown.Whenyourehearseascene,itisusuallybestnottothinkaboutthe
cameraatall.Ifyoudo,Ihavefoundthatitinvariablyinterfereswiththefullest
explorationoftheideasofthescene.When,atlast,somethinghappenswhich
youknowisworthfilming,thatisthetimetodecidehowtoshootit.Itisalmostbut
notquitetruetosaythatwhensomethingreallyexcitingandworthwhileis
happening,itdoesn'tmatterhowyoushootit.Inanyevent,itnevertakesmelong
todecideonsetups,lightingorcameramovements.Thevisualpartoffilm
makinghasalwayscomeeasiesttome,andthatiswhyIamcarefulto
subordinateittothestoryandtheperformances.
Doyoulikewritingaloneorwouldyouliketoworkwithascriptwriter?
IenjoyworkingwithsomeoneIfindstimulating.Oneofthemostfruitfuland
enjoyablecollaborationsIhavehadwaswithArthurC.Clarkeinwritingthestory
of2001:ASpaceOdyssey.Oneoftheparadoxesofmoviewritingisthat,witha
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fewnotableexceptions,writerswhocanreallywritearenotinterestedinworking
onfilmscripts.Theyquitecorrectlyregardtheirimportantworkasbeingdonefor
publication.IwrotethescreenplayforBarryLyndonalone.Thefirstdrafttook
threeorfourmonthsbut,aswithallmyfilms,thesubsequentwritingprocess
neverreallystopped.Whatyouhavewrittenandisyetunfilmedisinevitably
affectedbywhathasbeenfilmed.Newproblemsofcontentordramaticweight
revealthemselves.Rehearsingascenecanalsocausescriptchanges.However
carefullyyouthinkaboutascene,andhoweverclearlyyoubelieveyouhave
visualizedit,it'sneverthesamewhenyoufinallyseeitplayed.Sometimesa
totallynewideacomesupoutoftheblue,duringarehearsal,orevenduring
actualshooting,whichissimplytoogoodtoignore.Thiscannecessitatethenew
scenebeingworkedoutwiththeactorsrightthenandthere.Aslongastheactors
knowtheobjectivesofthescene,andunderstandtheircharacters,thisisless
difficultandmuchquickertodothanyoumightimagine.
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