fred_uk

01-03-2009, 10:47 AM
hi,

im new to the forum and need some help with this project

i have got

> an audio cable with tones from 500hz to 3000hz present
> an inductive amplifier, similar to this one http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=46536

i want to detect the presence of a tone on the audio cable without making contact with the
conductors, hence the inductive amplifier

when i detect i tone between 500hz and 3000hz i want to activate an output for the duration of the
tone, people have mentioned using the LM567 chip, but im told its osblete and i cant get the
bandwidth required

can anyone help me with either a modiciation to my exsiting tester or a complete circuit. Im upto the
standard of buildind it but not designing it and need some help

thanks
fred
http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/images/misc/progress.gif

duffy
01-03-2009, 09:21 PM
The LM567 isn't obsolete, you can buy them from Digikey. It will easily work to 3khz and quite a bit
higher, I've used them to detect ultrasonics.

beenthere
01-03-2009, 09:45 PM
Check this link - http://www.scary-terry.com/more_stuff/tonedet/tonedet.htm.

SgtWookie
01-04-2009, 01:32 AM
National's LM567 is obsolete.
The LM567C supercedes it:
http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM567C.html

However, the bandwidth is only adjustable from 0 to 14%. You'd need at least 15 of them to cover
that frequency range.

fred_uk
01-04-2009, 09:03 AM
Check this link - http://www.scary-terry.com/more_stuff/tonedet/tonedet.htm.


thanks beenthere, seems ideal, ive also downloaded abit of software on my pc and started testing
tones with my current setup, ive found my inductive amplifier doesn't appear very sensitive but i think
its got a filter on tones below 1000hz

as i require to go down to 500hz im gona need to bin it and build my own, can anyone recommend an
inductive amplifier circuit?

all i will need to do then is put the audio output though the above circuit and i will be sorted.

thanks again!

woops...

just noticed this comment...

National's LM567 is obsolete.
The LM567C supercedes it:
http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM567C.html (http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM567C.html)

However, the bandwidth is only adjustable from 0 to 14%. You'd need at least 15 of them to cover
that frequency range.

does that mean i will need 15 of these chips in the above circuit to cover the full frequency range??

THANKS

bertus
01-04-2009, 09:26 AM
Hello,

Do you want to see if some tone is present ?
Just make a filter between 500 hz and 3000 hz, detect the envelope and see how high it gets.
Do you want to see which tone is present ?
You have to make more sharper filters (like in an equalizer) with the detectors.

Greetings,
Bertus

eblc1388
01-04-2009, 10:02 AM
I think he wants "to detect any tone presence within the 500 ~ 3000Hz range and light a LED".

fred_uk
01-04-2009, 10:11 AM
I think he wants "to detect any tone presence within the 500 ~ 3000Hz range and light a LED".

thats what i want to do....

my exsiting inductive amplifier from maplins isnt really made for what i want to achieve and is only
good at >1000hz

bertus
01-04-2009, 10:15 AM
Hello,

How strong are the signals from 500 hz to 3000 hz in your cable ?
Do you already have a pickup coil ?
Perhaps this circuits is someting for you?
http://www.mitedu.freeserve.co.uk/Circuits/Testgear/emmeter.htm

Greetings,
Bertus

fred_uk
01-04-2009, 01:03 PM
Hello,

How strong are the signals from 500 hz to 3000 hz in your cable ?
Do you already have a pickup coil ?
Perhaps this circuits is someting for you?
http://www.mitedu.freeserve.co.uk/Circuits/Testgear/emmeter.htm

Greetings,
Bertus

ar!

im not too sure how strong these signals are, ive got a program on my pc for generating the tones so i
can test the system out

i've not got a coil, instead i had used an inductive amplifier (like a cable tester type thing)

ive seen that circuit before, ideally all i need is somethin like this that could provide an output (would
need to support a 100ma load) im abit concerned that i would get too much interferance from mains
humm and that, thats my reason for wanting to filter out anything below say 400 to 500 hz, how
could i do that?

thanks everyone, out of all the forums ive tried you guys are coming up with all the answers! thanks
again

fred

bertus
01-04-2009, 01:45 PM
Hello,

You can change the responce of the circuit I linked to.

http://www.mitedu.freeserve.co.uk/Circuits/Testgear/em_meter.gif

If you make the entrance capacitor ( now 100n ) smaller the circuit will be less sensitive for lower
frequencies (low cut).
If you make the capacitor across the opamp ( now 150p ) higher the circuit will be lees sensetive for
the very high frequencies (high cut).

Greetings,
Bertus

fred_uk
01-04-2009, 03:11 PM
If you make the entrance capacitor ( now 100n ) smaller the circuit will be less sensitive for lower
frequencies (low cut).
If you make the capacitor across the opamp ( now 150p ) higher the circuit will be lees sensetive for
the very high frequencies (high cut).


thanks will get to work contructing this circuit tomorrow, what do i do about the output? i've got two
options for my output device, they are:

option 1 80ma 1.0 - 1.8v
option 2 100ma 2.4 - 3.6v

both small dc motors

i presume extending or shortening the lenght of cable on the probe would affect the units 'range', do i
make that as a coil??

thanks for your prompt replys!

bertus
01-04-2009, 03:19 PM
Hello,

The coil used is something like this one at farnell.
http://nl.farnell.com/murata-power-solutions/22r105c/inductor-1-0mh/dp/1077036

What are you trying to switch ?
Are those power leds ?

Greetings,
Bertus

fred_uk
01-04-2009, 04:09 PM
What are you trying to switch ?


tiny dc motor

bertus
01-04-2009, 04:23 PM
Hello,

You could make a comparator, connect one side to the "meter" and the other side to a potentiometer
to set the level.
The output of the comparator can drive a transistor to switch things.
(you need to reduce the voltage for the motors).

Greetings,
Bertus

fred_uk
01-04-2009, 04:57 PM
Hello,

You could make a comparator, connect one side to the "meter" and the other side to a potentiometer
to set the level.
The output of the comparator can drive a transistor to switch things.
(you need to reduce the voltage for the motors).

Greetings,
Bertus


thanks for that,

can i remove the metre from the circuit??

thanks
fred

bertus
01-04-2009, 05:01 PM
Hello,

Yes, you can replace it by a 1k resistor.
This is to let the 220 uF capacitor to let the voltage go, when there is no signal.

Greetings,
Bertus

fred_uk
01-04-2009, 07:06 PM
Hello,

Yes, you can replace it by a 1k resistor.
This is to let the 220 uF capacitor to let the voltage go, when there is no signal.

Greetings,
Bertus

thankyou for your assistance, im goin to get the bits tomorrow, where would i take the output for the
motor?

thanks bertus

italo
01-05-2009, 06:51 PM
I think his question was how to detect not where to find decoders. Maybe i am wrong? audio cable to
me means shielded cables. if that is so then nothing will be able to magnetize a shield because is
sitting at virtual gnd. So just throw that idea away. And the pictcure shows telephone circuitry
detection. send a tone to a wire then probe to find the wire usefull for telephone continuity check they
have no shield just millions of wires laying around.

fred_uk
01-06-2009, 08:59 AM
I think his question was how to detect not where to find decoders. Maybe i am wrong? audio cable to
me means shielded cables. if that is so then nothing will be able to magnetize a shield because is
sitting at virtual gnd. So just throw that idea away. And the pictcure shows telephone circuitry
detection. send a tone to a wire then probe to find the wire usefull for telephone continuity check they
have no shield just millions of wires laying around.

the cable isnt shielded

Audioguru
01-06-2009, 03:03 PM
the cable isnt shielded
Without having a shielded cable the input wire will pickup a lot of mains hum and other interference.

fred_uk
01-06-2009, 07:32 PM
Without having a shielded cable the input wire will pickup a lot of mains hum and other interference.

i know, hence the filters <500hz, i've got to try and build something...

Audioguru
01-06-2009, 07:53 PM
You might not need a filter is you use a shielded input cable.
Shielded cables are used to connect audio equipment together.

bertus
01-06-2009, 07:59 PM
Hello,

The shielded cable is needed between the pickup coil and amplifier.

Greetings,
Bertus

fred_uk
01-29-2009, 06:22 PM
hi,

if you follow this thread you will see iam building an inductive amplifier to amplify tones between
500hz and 3000hz, the circuit is now built but the tones aren't loud enough and there is abit of hiss in
the background, any ideas how i could amplify these tones i want to listen to and reduce hiss in the
background.

thakns
fred

hi,

iam building an inductive amplifier to amplify tones between 500hz and 3000hz, the circuit is now
built but when tested (with headphones) the tones aren't loud enough, i can hear them just (if i use
my pc speaker, which is a poor excuse for one, usb with abit of an amplifier) and there is abit of hiss
in the background, any ideas how i could amplify these tones i want to listen to and reduce hiss in the
background.

please note my electronics experiance is somewhat limited, it's been along time since i specified
anything and iam operating on my limits :(

thanks
fred

http://www.mitedu.freeserve.co.uk/Circuits/Testgear/em_meter.gif

this is what i had based the circuit on, i life the idea of using a filter too, where would i start?? i am
trying to provide an output on detecting tones between 500hz and 3000hz

thanks for your replys

can anyone help me design a bandpass filter for my inductive amplifier,
i need to keep anything from 500hz to 3000hz and filter out everything else,

iam a bit of a beginner with my design knowledge being limited!! but i will be ok to build the circuit
(hopefully!)

sorry if this appears a duplicated thread only i wanted the tittle to reflect the requirements of the
project

thanks for your help

theamber
01-31-2009, 01:32 AM
You should build one arround the LM386 amp.

mik3
01-31-2009, 01:35 AM
Where is your circuit diagram?

Skeebopstop
01-31-2009, 03:52 AM
Circuit diagram would be nice.

Why not just actively bandpass filter between 500-3000Hz and then just amplify the output of the
filter.

hgmjr
01-31-2009, 11:57 AM
I have merged all of your posts on the topic of inductive amplifier. In the future, please avoid the
creation of new threads on the same topic.

hgmjr

hgmjr
01-31-2009, 12:58 PM
Yeah bill. In an attempt to consolidate the multitude of threads on the same topic by the same OP, I
must have been in the midst of the merge when the reply was being made. I think I now have things
sorted out.

hgmjr

Skeebopstop
02-01-2009, 09:03 AM
I've attached a nice active low pass filter differential amplifier circuit. It has -6dB per decade, not as
great as some of the heavier duty active filters, but it wins points for amplifying and filtering at the
same time.

R4 = R2
R3 = R1

Gain = R2/R1.

Bandwidth = 1/2*pi*R2*C2.

Just chain this up with another such circuit, where the first one is set to 500Hz and the next one 3000
Hz.

You can use the diff amps along the way for your amplification (if you need much power you'll have to
buffer the output).

If you are driving a class A output stage and only have a +5V supply for the opamps, you can adjust
the GND to be Vcc/2 and it will amplify around that as a midpoint.

Please note I just inserted some random op-amp in my schematic capture, so select an op-amp suited
to your application.

fred_uk
02-01-2009, 06:37 PM
I've attached a nice active low pass filter differential amplifier circuit. It has -6dB per decade, not as
great as some of the heavier duty active filters, but it wins points for amplifying and filtering at the
same time.

R4 = R2
R3 = R1

Gain = R2/R1.

Bandwidth = 1/2*pi*R2*C2.

Just chain this up with another such circuit, where the first one is set to 500Hz and the next one 3000
Hz.

You can use the diff amps along the way for your amplification (if you need much power you'll have to
buffer the output).

If you are driving a class A output stage and only have a +5V supply for the opamps, you can adjust
the GND to be Vcc/2 and it will amplify around that as a midpoint.

Please note I just inserted some random op-amp in my schematic capture, so select an op-amp suited
to your application.

thanks Skeebopstop, this is a great help, but....
how do i calculate the values and how do i fit this into my circuit?

sorry if i appear to be askin a bone question only it's been many years since i last dabbled in this area.
thanks

Skeebopstop
02-01-2009, 10:01 PM
Sorry mate, I confused my statement.

You can only use this circuit as a low pass, so you will have to combine it with a 'high pass' if you want
to create the band pass.

Here is how you could use the circuit I provided for gain and filtering

R4 = R2 = 10k
R3 = R1 = 1k

Gain = 10x

C1 = C2 = 5.3nF (3000Hz low pass).

So just throw the output of that circuit into a high pass filter of 300 Hz and you have your gain and
bandpass in two op-amps.

fred_uk
02-02-2009, 08:41 AM
hi,

im going to build the filter that Skeebopstop
(http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/member.php?u=37995) has specified, however what chip should i
use?

the current circuit is based on an LF351, should i use one of these? Other people have commented my
inductive amplifier should be based on the lm386, but im not too sure if that will give me the full
bandwidth required?

anyone got any ideas before i place and order?

Skeebopstop
02-02-2009, 09:26 AM
Depends on what you need of it. What is the range of your input signal? do you have a dual supply or
single ended to power the opamp? Were you looking to only power a weak signal (i.e. headphones)?
are you doing Class A, B, or AB type amplifier?

to implement easiest, Class A, use single ended 24v supply and bias a +-10V maximum output around
12V. At which point, if your application doesn't need to be horribly exact and only drives 30mA or so,
just use the provided circuit.

fred_uk
02-02-2009, 03:14 PM
Depends on what you need of it. What is the range of your input signal? do you have a dual supply or
single ended to power the opamp? Were you looking to only power a weak signal (i.e. headphones)?
are you doing Class A, B, or AB type amplifier?

to implement easiest, Class A, use single ended 24v supply and bias a +-10V maximum output around
12V. At which point, if your application doesn't need to be horribly exact and only drives 30mA or so,
just use the provided circuit.


Im not really going to be using the headphones 'ouput' just want to provide a high output to power a
small dc motor when tones beteen 500hz and 3000hz are present, the only power i have is from
batteries, currently a pp3 9v battery

thanks
fred

Skeebopstop
02-02-2009, 09:21 PM
I think it is best at this point to clarify your application so I can get the whole picture.

fred_uk
02-08-2009, 08:54 PM
mods, could you pleasse lock this thread now

thanks
freddy

beenthere
02-08-2009, 09:39 PM
At OP's request, so be it.

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