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Correcting a zinc deficiency
Started by nameless , Jul 24 2008 05:52 PM
* Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic
#1
<http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/23344-correcting-a-zinc-deficiency/p
age__view__findpost__p__252631>
OFFLINE nameless
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?
Posted 24 July 2008 - 05:52 PM
I think I may have a zinc deficiency, as I recently tried Zinc Status
and sort of failed... no metallic or unusual taste when I tried it. I've
also been getting a lot of colds the past year or two, and am also on an
ace inhibitor (altace), which may decrease zinc levels.
First, how accurate is Zinc Status in determining a deficiency? Would a
serum zinc test be more accurate?
And what type of zinc should I use to correct the deficiency? There are
several flavors... albion chelate best? Or maybe zinc picolinate? Or
perhaps opti-zinc?
Would something like this: http://www.iherb.com...c...id=278&at=0
<http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1&pid=278&at=0>
(Jarrow Zinc Balance)
be a good choice, maybe at two capsules/daily for several months, then
retest zinc status? Or would supplementing with methionine be a bad
idea, even in small quantities, due to that methionine restriction/life
extension theory?
I am also unsure if I need to supplement with copper or not, before
correcting the zinc deficiency.
Any advice appreciated.
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#2
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age__view__findpost__p__252665>
OFFLINE piet3r Re: Correcting a zinc deficiency
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?
Posted 24 July 2008 - 08:19 PM
Go for zinc citrate or l-optizinc. Don't take it at the same time as
phytic acid containing foods. I would always take copper at a 10:1 ratio
of zinc to copper. Good bets are life extension's only trace minerals or
AOR's zinc copper Balance product.
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#3
<http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/23344-correcting-a-zinc-deficiency/p
age__view__findpost__p__252704>
OFFLINE krillin Re: Correcting a zinc deficiency
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* Location:USA
Posted 24 July 2008 - 11:58 PM
I use zinc citrate. Do a dietary analysis before taking any copper. The
top quartile of serum copper got smacked in the Paris Prospective Study.
How much would put you in the top quartile? In this review
<http://www.jacn.org/cgi/reprint/17/4/322.pdf> it's above 1.86 mg/day.
Quote
Data from the surveys on which these calculations were based were pooled
so the shape of the distribution of 849 diets could be defined and to
allow comparison of diets to the revised standard [1]. The figure
reveals positive skewness, but only 3.2% of the diets exceed 3.0 mg/day;
61% are less than 1.5 mg/day and approximately one-third are less than 1
mg. The middle quartiles ranged from 0.91 to 1.86 mg/day. This
distribution is representative of diets made from conventional foods in
Belgium, Canada, UK and the US [7].
LEF's Only Trace Minerals and AOR's Zinc - Copper Balance are only for
the suicidal. 136% of the UL for manganese in LEF's! And their 2 mg of
copper puts you in the kill zone before you even add in what you get in
food.
Epidemiology. 2006 May;17(3):308-14.
Zinc, copper, and magnesium and risks for all-cause, cancer, and
cardiovascular mortality.
Leone N, Courbon D, Ducimetiere P, Zureik M.
Unit 744 National Institute of Health and Medical Research (INSERM),
Lille Pasteur Institute, Lille, France.
BACKGROUND: Experimental data suggest that zinc, copper, and
magnesium are involved in carcinogenesis and atherogenesis. Few
longitudinal studies have related these minerals to cancer or
cardiovascular disease mortality in a population. METHODS: Data from the
Paris Prospective Study 2, a cohort of 4035 men age 30-60 years at
baseline, were used to assess the association between serum zinc,
copper, and magnesium and all-cause, cancer, and cardiovascular disease
mortality. Serum mineral values measured at baseline were divided into
quartiles and classified into low (1st quartile, referent group), medium
(2nd-3rd quartiles), and high (4th quartile) values. During 18-year
follow up, 339 deaths occurred, 176 as a result of cancer and 56 of
cardiovascular origin. Relative risks (RRs) for each element were
inferred using Cox's proportional hazard model after controlling for
various potential confounders. RESULTS: High copper values (4th
quartile) were associated with a 50% increase in RRs for all-cause
deaths (RR = 1.5; 95% confidence interval = 1.1-2.1), a 40% increase for
cancer mortality (1.4; 0.9-2.2), and a 30% increase for cardiovascular
mortality (1.3; 0.6-2.8) compared with low values (1st quartile). High
magnesium values were negatively related to mortality with a 40%
decrease in RR for all-cause (0.6; 0.4-0.8) and cardiovascular deaths
(0.6; 0.2-1.2) and by 50% for cancer deaths (0.5; 0.3-0.8).
Additionally, subjects with a combination of low zinc and high copper
values had synergistically increased all-cause (2.6; 1.4-5.0) and cancer
(2.7; 1.0-7.3) mortality risks. Similarly, combined low zinc and high
magnesium values were associated with decreased all-cause (0.2; 0.1-0.5)
and cancer (0.2; 0.1-0.8) mortality risks. CONCLUSIONS: High serum
copper, low serum magnesium, and concomitance of low serum zinc with
high serum copper or low serum magnesium contribute to an increased
mortality risk in middle-aged men.
PMID: 16570028
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#4
<http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/23344-correcting-a-zinc-deficiency/p
age__view__findpost__p__252790>
OFFLINE nameless Re: Correcting a zinc deficiency
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?
Posted 25 July 2008 - 07:02 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. One concern I have though is... to correct a
zinc deficiency I may need 30-50mg/daily for several months. Will I be
creating a copper/zinc imbalance if I don't supplement with copper at
the same time? At a 10:1 ratio that's 3-5 mg daily of copper, which
seems like an awful lot to me.
Or is copper not needed until the zinc deficiency is corrected?
Optizinc might be a good option, as I believe it doesn't interfere with
copper. But is the methionine a potential problem?
And I agree about the LEF Only Trace Minerals product. That much
manganese is just insane.
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
#5
<http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/23344-correcting-a-zinc-deficiency/p
age__view__findpost__p__252809>
OFFLINE edward Re: Correcting a zinc deficiency
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* Location:Southeast USA
Posted 25 July 2008 - 11:13 AM
According to this the truly only effective supplement is Zinc
Picolinate. The citrate and gluconate groups showed no zinc accumulation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/3630857
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3630857>
/Barrie SA, Wright JV, Pizzorno JE, Kutter E, Barron PC.
The comparative absorption of zinc after oral administration of three
different complexed forms was studied in 15 healthy human volunteers in
a double-blind four-period crossover trial. The individuals were
randomly divided into four groups. Each group rotated for four week
periods through a random sequence of oral supplementation including:
zinc picolinate, zinc citrate, and zinc gluconate (equivalent to 50 mg
elemental zinc per day) and placebo. Zinc was measured in hair, urine,
erythrocyte and serum before and after each period. At the end of four
weeks hair, urine and erythrocyte zinc levels rose significantly (p less
than 0.005, p less than 0.001, and p less than 0.001) during zinc
picolinate administration. There was no significant change in any of
these parameters from zinc gluconate, zinc citrate or placebo
administration. There was a small, insignificant rise in serum zinc
during zinc picolinate, zinc citrate and placebo supplementation. The
results of this study suggest that zinc absorption in humans can be
improved by complexing zinc with picolinic acid./
*PS *Picolinate is pretty cheap, sadly they just dont carry it at your
local drugstore just like the effective forms of magnesium. Why is it
that drug stores, grocery stores etc. only carry "cr@p" versions of
supplements, magnesium oxide, non balanced artificial vit E,
worthless/toxic multivitamins etc etc. Well I know why but its
frustrating so I had to vent (fedex, UPS, DHL and the US Mail all love me)
*Edited by edward, 25 July 2008 - 11:19 AM.*
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#6
<http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/23344-correcting-a-zinc-deficiency/p
age__view__findpost__p__252819>
OFFLINE quarter Re: Correcting a zinc deficiency
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?
Posted 25 July 2008 - 12:42 PM
Zinc monomethionine (L-OptiZinc) or Zinc picolinate?
I am reading conflicting reports as to which is better. I have been
using L-OptiZinc as part of my DIY ZMA (along with either Magnesium
Orotate or Magnesium Citrate powder, and sublingual B6 in the form of P5P).
Is L-OptiZinc superior to zinc picolinate?
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
#7
<http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/23344-correcting-a-zinc-deficiency/p
age__view__findpost__p__252936>
OFFLINE krillin Re: Correcting a zinc deficiency
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?
* Location:USA
Posted 26 July 2008 - 01:15 AM
According to the RDA book, the lowest dose of zinc observed to lower
copper was 60 mg (50 mg supplement + assumed 10 mg from diet). The UL
was thus set at 40 mg, so stay under that and there shouldn't be any
problems.
PMIDs 7883627, 9498328, 10801947, and 2506318 look bad for ZnMet.
PMIDs 3668684 and 4020489 found that doses of picolinic acid much
greater than that of zinc can either interfere with absorption or
increase absorption but increase excretion even more. There might not be
a problem with stoichiometric amounts, but there would always be some
nagging uncertainty in the back of my mind. PMID 3195986 says "It is
concluded that dietary PA forms soluble complexes with metal ions which
are rapidly absorbed but are then re-excreted in urine and may not be
available for metabolism or incorporation into tissues." PMID 1728807
found that 14.6 mg of zinc picolinate (from PERQUE2 Life Guard)
"Supplementation had no effect on plasma, RBC, or urinary zinc (Table 6)
or concentrations of the two major zinc-binding proteins, albumin and
a2-macroglobulin (data not shown)."
Citrate is nice and natural and uncontroversial.
J Inorg Biochem. 1980 Jan;12(1):71-8.
Isolation of a low molecular weight zinc binding ligand from human milk.
Lnnerdal B, Stanislowski AG, Hurley LS.
A low molecular weight zinc binding compound from human milk has
been purified by ultrafiltration, gel filtration, and ion-exchange
chromatography. Evidence is provided that this compound is citrate. A
higher amount of citrate-bound zinc was found in human milk than in
cow's milk. It is suggested that the therapeutic value of human milk for
patients with the genetic disorder of zinc metabolism acrodermatitis
enteropathica (AE) derives from a greater content of bioavailable zinc
citrate in human than in cow's milk.
PMID: 7189547
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#8
<http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/23344-correcting-a-zinc-deficiency/p
age__view__findpost__p__253038>
OFFLINE nameless Re: Correcting a zinc deficiency
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?
Posted 26 July 2008 - 05:21 PM
Thanks for the additional info. I have been avoiding citrate/minerals
(mag citrate) due to possible aluminum/lead absorption issues (studies
say it may happen when using calclum citrate). But I would think the
amount in zinc citrate is way too small to be an issue, if there is even
an issue to begin with.
Can you recommend a brand of zinc citrate? It oddly seems hard to find.
The only one I've found so far, in the dosing range I'm looking for, is
Allergy Research Group Zinc Citrate -- 25 mg. I'm thinking zinc
ascorbate might be good to try too, but it seems nobody sells it as a
standalone.
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#9
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age__view__findpost__p__253084>
OFFLINE piet3r Re: Correcting a zinc deficiency
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Posted 26 July 2008 - 10:20 PM
Lamberts has 15 and 50mg zinc citrate.
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#10
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age__view__findpost__p__253094>
OFFLINE krillin Re: Correcting a zinc deficiency
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* Location:USA
Posted 26 July 2008 - 10:52 PM
View Post
<http://www.longecity.org/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findp
ost&pid=253038>nameless,
on 26-Jul 2008, 11:21 AM, said:
Can you recommend a brand of zinc citrate? It oddly seems hard to find.
The only one I've found so far, in the dosing range I'm looking for, is
Allergy Research Group Zinc Citrate -- 25 mg. I'm thinking zinc
ascorbate might be good to try too, but it seems nobody sells it as a
standalone.
I use Natural Factors.
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#11
<http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/23344-correcting-a-zinc-deficiency/p
age__view__findpost__p__253217>
OFFLINE Bghead8che Re: Correcting a zinc deficiency
* <http://www.longecity.org/forum/user/6350-bghead8che/>
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Posted 27 July 2008 - 06:26 PM
View Post
<http://www.longecity.org/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findp
ost&pid=252704>krillin,
on 24-Jul 2008, 05:58 PM, said:
I use zinc citrate. Do a dietary analysis before taking any copper. The
top quartile of serum copper got smacked in the Paris Prospective Study.
How much would put you in the top quartile? In this review
<http://www.jacn.org/cgi/reprint/17/4/322.pdf> it's above 1.86 mg/day.
Quote
Data from the surveys on which these calculations were based were pooled
so the shape of the distribution of 849 diets could be defined and to
allow comparison of diets to the revised standard [1]. The figure
reveals positive skewness, but only 3.2% of the diets exceed 3.0 mg/day;
61% are less than 1.5 mg/day and approximately one-third are less than 1
mg. The middle quartiles ranged from 0.91 to 1.86 mg/day. This
distribution is representative of diets made from conventional foods in
Belgium, Canada, UK and the US [7].
LEF's Only Trace Minerals and AOR's Zinc - Copper Balance are only for
the suicidal. 136% of the UL for manganese in LEF's! And their 2 mg of
copper puts you in the kill zone before you even add in what you get in
food.
Epidemiology. 2006 May;17(3):308-14.
Zinc, copper, and magnesium and risks for all-cause, cancer, and
cardiovascular mortality.
Leone N, Courbon D, Ducimetiere P, Zureik M.
Unit 744 National Institute of Health and Medical Research (INSERM),
Lille Pasteur Institute, Lille, France.
BACKGROUND: Experimental data suggest that zinc, copper, and
magnesium are involved in carcinogenesis and atherogenesis. Few
longitudinal studies have related these minerals to cancer or
cardiovascular disease mortality in a population. METHODS: Data from the
Paris Prospective Study 2, a cohort of 4035 men age 30-60 years at
baseline, were used to assess the association between serum zinc,
copper, and magnesium and all-cause, cancer, and cardiovascular disease
mortality. Serum mineral values measured at baseline were divided into
quartiles and classified into low (1st quartile, referent group), medium
(2nd-3rd quartiles), and high (4th quartile) values. During 18-year
follow up, 339 deaths occurred, 176 as a result of cancer and 56 of
cardiovascular origin. Relative risks (RRs) for each element were
inferred using Cox's proportional hazard model after controlling for
various potential confounders. RESULTS: High copper values (4th
quartile) were associated with a 50% increase in RRs for all-cause
deaths (RR = 1.5; 95% confidence interval = 1.1-2.1), a 40% increase for
cancer mortality (1.4; 0.9-2.2), and a 30% increase for cardiovascular
mortality (1.3; 0.6-2.8) compared with low values (1st quartile). High
magnesium values were negatively related to mortality with a 40%
decrease in RR for all-cause (0.6; 0.4-0.8) and cardiovascular deaths
(0.6; 0.2-1.2) and by 50% for cancer deaths (0.5; 0.3-0.8).
Additionally, subjects with a combination of low zinc and high copper
values had synergistically increased all-cause (2.6; 1.4-5.0) and cancer
(2.7; 1.0-7.3) mortality risks. Similarly, combined low zinc and high
magnesium values were associated with decreased all-cause (0.2; 0.1-0.5)
and cancer (0.2; 0.1-0.8) mortality risks. CONCLUSIONS: High serum
copper, low serum magnesium, and concomitance of low serum zinc with
high serum copper or low serum magnesium contribute to an increased
mortality risk in middle-aged men.
PMID: 16570028
According to this study almost ANY multi-vitamin would put you in danger
of receiving excess copper intake. Ortho-Core for example gives you
1.5mg a serving and you can easily get another 1-3 mg from your
diet. It would appear that "most" people should never supplement with
copper even when taking zinc. Many Zinc supplements are balanced with
copper. So they all have it wrong?
I find this very scary as it appears many of us may be supplmenting with
too much copper especially when factoring in the copper intake form our
diet.
-Brian
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#12
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OFFLINE Bghead8che Re: Correcting a zinc deficiency
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Posted 27 July 2008 - 06:39 PM
Look at this page from AOR:
http://www.aor.ca/in...per_balance.php
<http://www.aor.ca/int/related_research/zinc-copper_balance.php>
They suggest that Copper and Zinc compete for each other on a much
larger scale. They cite several references.
You do wonder. If one were to supplement with Zinc at say 10-30mg w/out
additional copper would an imbalance result? The studies seem to be
contradictory. While 2.0 mg a day may appear to be a lot of copper I
would assume the they are thinking that not all of it will be absorped
due to competition with Zinc.
On a side note Albion makes Zinc in Glycinate, Arginate, and Histidinate
forms.
-Brian
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#13
<http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/23344-correcting-a-zinc-deficiency/p
age__view__findpost__p__253259>
OFFLINE krillin Re: Correcting a zinc deficiency
* <http://www.longecity.org/forum/user/4665-krillin/>
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* Location:USA
Posted 27 July 2008 - 11:01 PM
View Post
<http://www.longecity.org/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findp
ost&pid=253217>Bghead8che,
on 27-Jul 2008, 12:26 PM, said:
According to this study almost ANY multi-vitamin would put you in danger
of receiving excess copper intake. Ortho-Core for example gives you
1.5mg a serving and you can easily get another 1-3 mg from your
diet. It would appear that "most" people should never supplement with
copper even when taking zinc. Many Zinc supplements are balanced with
copper. So they all have it wrong?
I find this very scary as it appears many of us may be supplmenting with
too much copper especially when factoring in the copper intake form our
diet.
-Brian
This may be a reason why we keep on hearing about studies where
multivitamins are found to be useless or even harmful.
Bghead8che said:
Look at this page from AOR:
http://www.aor.ca/in...per_balance.php
<http://www.aor.ca/int/related_research/zin...per_balance.php>
They suggest that Copper and Zinc compete for each other on a much
larger scale. They cite several references.
You do wonder. If one were to supplement with Zinc at say 10-30mg w/out
additional copper would an imbalance result? The studies seem to be
contradictory. While 2.0 mg a day may appear to be a lot of copper I
would assume the they are thinking that not all of it will be absorped
due to competition with Zinc.
Their first reference
<http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/61/3/621S?ijkey=a19aa51c5f788003a137415fe7372fc
0bc8d5c90&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha>
is the most interesting. Adverse effects were caused by diets deficient
in copper and high in zinc, or by zinc intakes above 60 mg (These are
the same results that were used to set the UL.) No data on people
getting adequate copper and 20-30 mg zinc. Extrapolating the zinc/copper
balance graph, 30 mg zinc would require only 2 mg copper: half the Cu/Zn
ratio AOR puts in their product. The text mentioned a maximum 16:1 Zn/Cu
ratio to avoid adverse effects, so by that criteria 30 mg would require
1.9 mg. I don't see a reason to go above 30 mg zinc, so therefore there
is no need to enter fourth quartile copper territory.
15 mg or more supplemental zinc did reduce the response of HDL to
exercise (He cited the wrong study though. I think he meant PMID
3999972.), so you could watch your cholesterol to see if you may need
more copper.
The second reference was already cited by me to show how huge 2 mg of
copper is. The third reference says copper deficiency is bad. The fourth
one says 100 mg/day of zinc is stupid. The fifth one says copper and
zinc are needed for bones.
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OFFLINE nameless Re: Correcting a zinc deficiency
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?
Posted 28 July 2008 - 04:32 AM
Anyone know what the average amount of copper one receives from diet
alone? I understand this will vary quite a bit based on diet, but I just
mean in general. Do most people get 1-2 mg/daily of copper without
supplementing at all?
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#15
<http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/23344-correcting-a-zinc-deficiency/p
age__view__findpost__p__253471>
OFFLINE krillin Re: Correcting a zinc deficiency
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Posted 28 July 2008 - 09:52 PM
View Post
<http://www.longecity.org/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findp
ost&pid=253319>nameless,
on 27-Jul 2008, 10:32 PM, said:
Anyone know what the average amount of copper one receives from diet
alone? I understand this will vary quite a bit based on diet, but I just
mean in general. Do most people get 1-2 mg/daily of copper without
supplementing at all?
Answered above.
Quote
Data from the surveys on which these calculations were based were pooled
so the shape of the distribution of 849 diets could be defined and to
allow comparison of diets to the revised standard [1]. The figure
reveals positive skewness, but only 3.2% of the diets exceed 3.0 mg/day;
61% are less than 1.5 mg/day and approximately one-third are less than 1
mg. The middle quartiles ranged from 0.91 to 1.86 mg/day. This
distribution is representative of diets made from conventional foods in
Belgium, Canada, UK and the US [7].
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