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Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props

By wooferhound, Section Homebrewed Electricity Wind Posted on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 05:27:21 PM MST Plans for PVC Pipe Props inspired by Zubbly and the OtherPower IRC Chatters While chatting on OtherPower IRC last night, I found that some folks were confused about exactly how to build the PVC Pipe Props that Zubbly and Me were designing. So here is my best effort with the Windows 98 Paint program to show as many details as I could think up . . .

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On the upper left is the basic Template Drawing that I've been working and building off of. Lets design a 4 foot prop with a 25 degree Hub (or Root) angle, and a 7 degree Tip Angle for this explaination. The diameter of the pipe will determine the width of the blades. For blades that average 4 inches wide at a 25 degree hub angle, you will need a Pipe Diameter in the 10 to 12 inch range. Cut your Pipe to 4.5 feet long. Draw a Centerline down the entire length of the pipe and accuratly mark the centerline on the inside of both ends of the pipe. This will be the Trailing edge. Also mark onto the centerline the Center Point between the ends of the pipe. This will be the Bolt Hole. Put the centerpoint of a protractor against the inside centerline mark on the pipe

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the Otherpower.com Discussion Board || Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props

and find where the 7 degree point is on the inside of the pipe, make your mark there. Next find where the 25 degree point is on the same side of the pipe, and mark that point on the inside of the pipe. accuratly mark the outside of the pipe at these points too. Repeat this step on the otherend of the pipe. The center of the prop is a circle (or oval) with the bolt hole in the middle of it. The outsides of this circle will be the same distance from the centerline as the 25 degree marks that you marked on the ends of the pipe. I would cut out a thin cardboard circle and wrap it around the pipe centered on the bolt hole mark and trace around it with a marker. Turn a metal tape measure around backwards and lay it numbers down onto the pipe with one end lined up to the circle and the otherend lined up to the Tip Angle mark at one end of the pipe. draw this line onto the pipe, and repeat for the otherend of the pipe. All the markings are done now. Since there are no cuts into the circle or through the blades you might want to erase or markout the areas in the center that don't get cut. These areas are the dotted lines in the drawings above. Time to start cutting. I think a Recipricating Saw works great. You can just cut straight into the pipe and get Good results. But if you angle the cuts as shown at the bottom of the drawing above, it provides a much longer path for the air around the back of the prop, improving efficiency. This is harder to do though because you want the cut to follow your markings as if they were on the inside of the pipe. You will see when you try to cut it. Now you have a new PVC Pipe Prop that will spin like carzy in the slightest of wind. Here is a picture af a 3 foot 4 blader prop experiment that I made from small 1 1/4 inch low pressure pipe . . .

Hope this helps Ya'll to make some cheap wind power. Thanks to Zubbly for the inspiration to make the props and the ideas for the drawings !! Also Thanks to many on IRC Chat who have helped with the details !!

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the Otherpower.com Discussion Board || Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props

Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props | 22 comments (22 topical, 0 editorial) Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#1) by zubbly on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 06:30:58 PM MST (User Info) by gads but you are good!. thank you for expressing the combined efforts of all of us. dreaming it up in my mind is one thing, leaving it to woof to get down on paper for all to understand is your feat. well done Woofer! thanks again-----zubbly

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#2) by desertratjack on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 07:00:05 PM MST (User Info) Thank you very much. Splendid documentation and design.

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#3) by kmitchel on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 09:05:12 PM MST (User Info) Thank you for contributing your work on PVC props, I've found the discussions rather fascinating. The process seems alot more elegant than hand carving wooden props. Anyhow, would it make a little more sense to describe the hub and tip angles relative to the center of the pipe? At least for construction purposes. Would it be possible for you to publish a table of blades you have constructed, including tip and hub angles prop length, and pipe diameter with a description of performance or character. With enough variations it should be possible to determine guidelines.

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#13) by wooferhound (timmythy@mindspring.com) on Wed Nov 12th, 2003 at 04:43:23 PM MST (User Info) http://timmythy.home.mindspring.com When I refer to angles here it is the angle of the face of the blade to the wind. If I want a 45 degree angle I just read out 45 degrees on the protractor. If I measured the angle relative to the center of the void pipe I would be reading 90 degrees for the 45 degree angle that I want. It was just less confusing to measure the angles like I did, and also there is not actually a point to measure from in the void eather. As for a table of the blades I've constructed , I am just getting started. The picture above is the only blades that I've made. Zubbly basicly invented them, an I have just modified the design to work better and be easier to build. Call them Zubbly blades with the Woofer Mods. I have questions that I want answered too . . . How may RPMs will they take ? What would the failure mode be ?
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the Otherpower.com Discussion Board || Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props

How long will they last in the Sun, Rain & wind ? Any way to coat them to get them to last longer ? How efficent are they really ? Will they break or just bend and spring back ? Etc... }=- W o o f -={ [ Parent ] Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#17) by Jerry on Thu Nov 13th, 2003 at 10:26:32 PM MST (User Info) http://www.dplusv.com/Photo-03.html Hey Woof I like that Zubbly blades with Woofer mods. Has a femilier ring to it. Go Plastic people. JK TAS Jerry Airheads Page

[ Parent ]

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#4) by wooferhound (timmythy@mindspring.com) on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 09:06:38 PM MST (User Info) http://timmythy.home.mindspring.com I'm thinking that you would need to bend some Fender Washers to fit the curve on the pipe and have 1 or 2 bent washers on each side of the pipe and the bolt going through it all. }=- W o o f -={

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#5) by iFred (retrodude123@yahoo.com) on Tue Nov 11th, 2003 at 11:26:24 PM MST (User Info) http://www.internetfred.com

Dude, thats just awesome! Thanks for sharing! www.internetfred.com

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#6) by Guerreiro on Wed Nov 12th, 2003 at 04:07:18 AM MST (User Info) Would this blades be abble to take high winds without bend?? Guerreiro

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Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#7) by santi on Wed Nov 12th, 2003 at 05:28:20 AM MST (User Info) This is my choice for pvc props, they are 1.2m dia. and very fast, even in low winds, im afraid they can break, perhaps a kind of reinforce can be good?

[ Parent ] Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#14) by wooferhound (timmythy@mindspring.com) on Wed Nov 12th, 2003 at 05:04:27 PM MST (User Info) http://timmythy.home.mindspring.com

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the Otherpower.com Discussion Board || Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props

The rather small blades that are in the picture above are 3 feet long and made from thin low pressure 1 1/4 inch PVC tubing. These long slender thin blades are quite strong for what they are. since the blades are wide at the root and thin at the tips they tend to bend a bit at the tips in higher winds. Self furling is what I'm thinking of. In the higher winds the tips bend back out of the wind decreasing effiecency. It's extreamly hard to break PVC Pipe, It bends really well but just try to break a piece with your hands, just keeps bending and bending. Lastly the curve of the pipe is naturally strong. the root area where you need most of the strength is Very strong. The larger sizes of pipe 6 inches and up, have really thick walls, 10 and 12 inch pipe has a 3/8 inch wall thickness. This combined with the pipe curve gives impressive strength. many posts below refer to strengthening the props after they are made. I'm saying that they are really strong. One thing that I wonder about is, since the tips can get fairly narrow, would they wobble any at high speed or high wind ? In conclusion: bending is good , breaking is bad . . . }=- W o o f -={ [ Parent ]

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#8) by RobD on Wed Nov 12th, 2003 at 08:01:36 AM MST (User Info) http://www.dsgnspec.com I love the idea but I don't think the PVC will hold up. I'm wondering if there is another material we can use that has the same tube diameter or if we can use the PVC as a form to shape someting on. RobD

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#15) by Reno on Thu Nov 13th, 2003 at 06:59:43 AM MST (User Info) What if you cut a double set and with PVC glue glue one on top on the other doubling the thickness. [ Parent ] Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#16) by wooferhound (timmythy@mindspring.com) on Thu Nov 13th, 2003 at 12:23:49 PM MST (User Info) http://timmythy.home.mindspring.com When you cut a PVC Prop you will see thier strength. Are you really sure that doubling the thickness for strength is nessesary. However I like the Idea because it gives more Thickness to make a better Airfoil. }=- W o o f -={ [ Parent ]

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Stiffening... (none / 0) (#9) by TomW on Wed Nov 12th, 2003 at 08:06:23 AM MST (User Info) http://oneota.net/~earthsourcepowr/ Guys; I wonder if an aluminum strap behind the pvc about 1/3 or 1/2 the way out would stiffen them and add strength for high wind use? Just a thought. I used aluminum strap "spars" behind both the jerryblades and the thin aluminum pinwheels to reduce flex. Cheers. TomW Stuff I have Online Contact Me

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#10) by Guerreiro on Wed Nov 12th, 2003 at 09:41:17 AM MST (User Info) I suppose that filling the interior of the tube with expandet poliuretane and then giving it a coat of fiber glass paste (the one you can use to repair cars), would make it much more strong. Guerreiro

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#11) by desertratjack on Wed Nov 12th, 2003 at 12:04:52 PM MST (User Info) There were aluminum extrusions (tubes) available in the past. One form was called "bridgerail" (for use on bridges as barriers between cars and pedestrians and as barriers to keep pedestrians/cars on the bridge in case of accident). Occasionally short pieces would be available in the construction of catamaran/trimaran crossbeams. Wish I had one now as we never knew what to do with those short pieces before!

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#12) by RobD on Wed Nov 12th, 2003 at 04:09:47 PM MST (User Info) http://www.dsgnspec.com

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the Otherpower.com Discussion Board || Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props

I have a couple of pieces of 4" diameter by 1/4 inch thick aluminum electrical conduit from an industrial site. I don't have enough to make a set of blades but some of you may have access to this stuff. I like the idea of fiber glassing over a form. If you look at the Air 403 blades there isn't much material so it should be hard. Trouble is I hate working with the stuff! I think I'm going to try sheets of veneer backing criss-crossed on top of the PVC. It comes out like aircraft plywood, thin and strong. You can use poplar which is usually used for banding on burls in veneering. It's cheap and you can run a strip of aluminum HVAC tape over the leading edge. Just some thoughts. RobD

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#18) by wildbill hickup on Wed Dec 31st, 2003 at 05:46:11 PM MST (User Info) Woof ON your 4 blader above. What did yopu use between ths blade sets to get them to nest together? I built a set similar to the plan above and I have about 3/4" gap between the lades where they come together in the center. Am I missing something? Wildbill

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#19) by wildbill hickup on Wed Dec 31st, 2003 at 05:51:19 PM MST (User Info) Duh, Nevermind I just read on and found your post on the 4 blader. I guess that explains everything Wildbill [ Parent ]

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#20) by Norm on Tue Feb 3rd, 2004 at 10:06:07 PM MST (User Info) Thanks woof! This is one that goes onto Favorites on my Special Floppys ( :>) Norm.

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#21) by nothing to lose on Wed Feb 4th, 2004 at 02:10:03 AM MST (User Info)

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the Otherpower.com Discussion Board || Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props

How well have these worked on actual gennies now? I love the design an will most likely buy a chunk of pipe today and try a set soon. Using the gray electrical pvc pipes I beleave they should hold up well in the sun, but it's fairly expensive stuff in large diameter. The cheaper stuff like green sewer pipe will not work very long for sure! I had a piece laying on the ground a year or two and the sun dried it out enough I shattered it when my cycle tire bumped it. Glad it wasn't in use :) Just extra stuff laying around! One of my thoughts on material was trying those thick black 35gal drums. I have had 3 or 4 sitting in the yard in direct sun for several years (probably 4yrs or more). They seem to be exactly as when I set them out. No visible drying or brittleness occuring yet. I hit one with a large hammer and got a solid thud sound. It has been sitting full of water, no damage occured to the barrel. The barrels are about 2'6" - 3' dia I think and about 3' tall or a little over. Last I bought one it cost $6 and I figure it should make many blades of about 3'. The plastic itself is solid and thick enough to prevent much bending but yet still flexible. Has anyone made blades from barrels such as these? They come in various colors, white, green, black, where I bought mine. I know the black held up well to the sun, not sure how the others would do. Maybe they are all UV resistant or maybe not?

Re: Here are the plans to make PVC Pipe Props (none / 0) (#22) by Parameter on Wed Feb 4th, 2004 at 06:07:06 PM MST (User Info) http://pages.infinit.net/gebet I like that last comment. This is a great idea as the barrel are quite long and may permit nice big props. I tough of making use of big plastic pails to make very small blades 26-30 inches for my microgenny after just giving up on doing them out of ABS. Not a good idea, damn hard to cut clean and trim. Para

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