from the Forum department...

Flow turndown ratio

Posted by Ngechang on 4 August, 2010 - 10:12 am

Hi all, Every flow measuring device has its own turndown ratio. Eg. for orifice plate, the turndown ratio is 3:1. Turndown ratio itself is defined as the rangeability of which the accuracy of the reading is maintained. The question is, given in the orifice plate datasheet, design is 12.5kPa with a given maximum flowrate of 100Nm3/hr, then, what is the minimum flowrate and maximum flowrate can be used with the orifice plate? Similar for other type of flow measuring device, how do we determine the usable minimum & maximum engineering unit of flow from the given datasheet in order not to effect the accuracy of the reading? Regards, Ngechang

Posted by Mark Dean on 16 August, 2010 - 4:08 am

Hi Ngechang, Rangeability is defined the range in which the flowmeter will maintain its required accuracy. Turndown ratio and rangeability is synonym. So, when certain flow element is defined to have 3:1 turndown ratio, it's calculated from the max design flow. E.g. Orifice data sheet is showing Max Flow = 1000Nm3/hr with dP=12.5kPa. That's the max design flow. So, your min range = 1000/3 = 333.33Nm3/hr and your max range = 1000Nm3/hr. Below or above this value, the flow Tx reading is no longer guaranteed to be within its usual accuracy i.e. around 3%. In short, always look for max design flow for whichever flow element you are using and find out the turndown ratio so you are sure you used flow ranges are within accuracy. Regards, MD

Posted by Rohit Chandak on 17 August, 2010 - 8:39 am

Hi, Flow Turndown is the term used to define the flow range over which the flow meter maintains the accuracy. All flow meter do have a maximum cut off flow rate & minimum cut of flow rate over & below which it can't measure accurately, this range is nothing but a turndown. Turn Down on orifice plate depends on the beta ratio & generally it is 3:1 to 5:1. To maintain the turndown ratio flow meter manufacturer do reduce the flow meter size so that its turndown can capture application's best possible flow range. Flow Meter turndown is not actually your application turndown hence you should always ask for the maximum & minimum flow the flow meter can accurately measure to know flowmeter's turndown on the application. Flow meter could be 10:1 turndown but on the application it would be less as well hence it is very important to know the turndown with respect to application.

Posted by Ngechang on 18 August, 2010 - 4:51 am

Thanks Mark & Dean, Why I asked the question, currently, I have the said spec. of flow element which says design dP is 12.5kPa corresponds to max flow 1000Nm3/hr. I need to re-range my Tx to read up until 1400Nm3/hr. Definitely, with existing flow element, accuracy cannot be guaranteed unless I change my orifice. Ngechang

Posted by M Mastan on 20 August, 2010 - 12:33 am

Ngechang, Do some reverse calculation; check what is the resulting diff press for the new max flowrate of 1400Nm3/hr using the existing orifice bore diameter. Diff press of 25kPa or less should be still acceptable.

If it is the case, you may not need to replace the orifice plate at all. You only have to re-range your tx as you mentioned. However, considering the 3:1 turndown ratio, the accurate reading would be starting from 466Nm3/hr onwards.

Posted by Ulf on 20 August, 2010 - 7:42 am

Hi Ngechang, You don't need to replace the orifice. An orifice is never designed to a specific flow. You make a calculation with certain assumptions, such as desired dp at max. The only thing you have to do is to make a new calculation and solve for new dp instead of finding the orifice inner diameter. With the increase in span you mention, I will estimate that you will be at approx 25 kPa, which is a normal dp, if it's acceptable in regards to pressure loss in this application, and that it's possible to set range to the dp transmitter. Regards Ulf

Posted by Ngechang on 24 August, 2010 - 2:08 am

Thankyou all, I've re-range it to 24.5kPa = 1400Nm3/hr. But, I still confuse on the terms turndown ratio? How much min and max flow can I configure with my existing flow element? This is also true for other types of flow measuring elements (ultrasonic, magnetic, etc.), how do we know then we're still within its turndown ratio range? Regards, Ngechang

Posted by Ulf on 30 August, 2010 - 4:19 am

Ngechang, Normally the orifice is not the limit for turn down. It's the DP transmitter. You need to find out the accuracy of the transmitter, if it's 0.1% of range, it will exceed 1% at 3:1, a transmitter with 0,025% can go to approx 6:1 and still be within 1%. You need to add other inaccuracies from the orifice itself, P&T variations etc.

Posted by vahid on 18 November, 2010 - 12:40 pm

Refer to ULF reply, I have following questions, May I ask to give more details? 1- It is said that the accuracy of an orifice is around 3%, what is the reference for this figure? I mean the accuracy is based on the FS or actual reading? 2- In ULF reply it is stated that: ">Normally the orifice is not the limit for turn down. It's the DP transmitter. You need to find out the accuracy of the transmitter, if it's 0.1% of range, it will exceed 1% at 3:1, a transmitter with 0,025% can go to approx 6:1 and Still be within 1%." < It seems that the turndown ration of an orifice is not main concern, but the D/P transmitter is important, would please explain more? Thank you for your concern.

Posted by Ulf on 22 November, 2010 - 5:26 am

1) An orifice adds about 0.6% inaccuracy to the total - if installed according to standard. The 3% is what you can expect if you don't follow best practice, you CAN come down to 1% if you do it all correct, not always possible...

2) As long as Reynolds Number (turbulent flow) etc is kept within limits, the orifice will produce correct dp (and that you will compensate for changing Cd), it will be about 0.6%. But, because of the square root relation between flow and dp, the dp will decrease significant when flow decreases, at 50% flow 25% of dp, at 10% flow only 1% of dp, this is the challenge for the dp-transmitter.

Posted by vahid on 27 November, 2010 - 10:07 am

Thank you for reply (ULF). I wonder if you could help more to understand the issue. You stated that: "1) An orifice adds about 0.6% inaccuracy to the total - if installed according to standard.", what is the basis of the inaccuracy? I mean is it based on the Full scale or rated reading? You also stated that: "But, because of the square root relation between flow and dp, the dp will decrease significant when flow decreases, at 50% flow 25% of dp, at 10% flow only 1% of dp, this is the challenge for the dp-transmitter." I know the flow is proportional to the square root of the dp.how you get the figure? My main concern is to measure/estimate the inaccuracy that we could have if we use an orifice with a dp cell with a specified inaccuracy.

Posted by Ulf on 29 November, 2010 - 3:32 am

Vahid, I don't know all details of how the accuracy been defined, But, there is different factors. Mounting can never be 100% correct, dimensions of orifice plate has tolerance, so does ovality of pipe, surface roughness etc. and finally how the method itself been developed. So the Cd (discharge coefficient) which is not exactly follows the square root curve, can be determined to 0,6%. To find the exact dp, use a dp-flow calculation software. To estimate the real flow accuracy without is not easy, in addition to already mentioned you also need to include media temperature and pressure (changes media density and other properties as viscosity), also impacts the pipe dimension. And more: transmitters performance, which is not only reference accuracy, long term stability, ambient temperature effect and so on...

Instrument Toolkit from Rosemount can actually do all this for you, Google for it and download, contact your local Emerson/Rosemount representative for assistance, it's not straight forward to make the calc even with the tool:)

Posted by Pam on 20 March, 2011 - 7:41 am

Hi, You mentioned that the orifice adds about 0.6% inaccuracy to the total. My questions are: 1) Is that for accurate measurable range of orifice turn down ratio 3:1? (example 100 to 300) 2) How about the accuracy under 100 and above 300? We still can measure under100 and over 300 as long as the DP Tx range is within and Orifice plate is not bend, right? 3) How to calculate the inaccuracy of Orifice Plate with related to turn down ratio? i.e 0.6% for 3:1, how to calculate for 4:1 and 5:1 ? 4) Could you please advise on below, current plate (beta ratio= 0.58) can measure accurate flow range of 40 to 106 with 1 DP TX. We would like to measure the accurate flow at 10 to 100 , what should I do, add one more DP Tx or resize the orifice plate. Thanks and Regards

Posted by Jerald Prado

on 14 S eptember, 2010 - 2:57 am

the maximum flow that an orifice can handle has a tolerance, just try to re range your dp tx..

Posted by Mark Dean on 16 S eptember, 2010 - 4:43 am

It looks like my existing flow element need not to be changed if our plant requires more flow indication than existing as long as I change my Tx accordingly? Is this imply turndown ratio is not applicable to flow element, e.g. orifice plate?

Regards, MD

Posted by Jerald

on 17 S eptember, 2010 - 4:05 am

your flow element has its own turndown ratio. however, your transmitter must have a higher turndown ratio than your flow sensor. i think your sensor can tolerate up to 5% of the upper range value. but this only applies to dp type flow meters.

Posted by shvas on 18 December, 2010 - 4:52 am

Is the orifice turndown ratio and transmitter turndown ratio the same? Please explain how the transmitter range calculations are done with one simple example and also with beta ratio relation with it.

Posted by Ervin Raab on 16 November, 2010 - 5:42 pm

Isn't the turndown ratio of an orifice plate commonly understood to be at 4:1, not 3:1 ? Regards, Ervin

Posted by dave on 20 March, 2011 - 3:39 pm

the 3:1 or 4:1 turndown in flow is equivalent to a 9:1 or a 16:1 turndown in measured d/p. you can always respan the d/p transmitter to achieve suitable accuracy at the new flow conditions, as long as you satisfy the Reynold's number limitations of the plate, i.e turbulent flow typically.

Believe the original question asks is "at what flow do you need to redesign the plate". The issues then become a function of revised fluid pressures, fluid state, piping configuration, fluid temperatures, etc., etc. Respanning the transmitter is a piece of cake in most cases. of the plate requires engineering, and rightly so. Your use of this site is subject to the terms and conditions set forth under Legal Notices and the Privacy Policy. Please read those terms and conditions carefully. Subject to the rights expressly reserved to others under Legal Notices, the content of this site and the compilation thereof is 1999-2014 Nerds in Control, LLC. All rights reserved. Users of this site are benefiting from open source technologies, including PHP, MySQL and Apache. Be happy. Fortune Goto, n.: A programming tool that exists to allow structured programmers to complain about unstructured programmers. -- Ray Simard