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This etext as prepared by ,ue <sscher =asschers>aia$net$au?

E9T+O&E:9, by Plato

Translated by *enjamin 1o ett

08T)7&9CT078$ The Euthydemus, though apt to be regarded by us only as an elaborate jest, has also a !ery serious purpose$ 0t may fairly claim to be the oldest treatise on logicQ for that science originates in the misunderstandings hich necessarily accompany the first efforts of speculation$ ,e!eral of the fallacies hich are satiri6ed in it reappear in the ,ophistici Elenchi of <ristotle and are retained at the end of our manuals of logic$ *ut if the order of history ere follo ed, they should be placed not at the end but at the beginning of themQ for they belong to the age in hich the human mind as first ma"ing the attempt to distinguish thought from sense, and to separate the uni!ersal from the particular or indi!idual$ +o to put together ords or ideas, ho to escape ambiguities in the meaning of terms or in the structure of propositions, ho to resist the fixed impression of an Peternal beingP or Pperpetual flux,P ho to distinguish bet een ords and thingsEEthese ere problems not easy of solution in the infancy of philosophy$ They presented the same "ind of difficulty to the halfE educated man hich spelling or arithmetic do to the mind of a child$ 0t as long before the ne orld of ideas hich had been sought after ith such passionate yearning as set in order and made ready for use$ To us the fallacies hich arise in the preE,ocratic philosophy are tri!ial and obsolete because e are no longer liable to fall into the errors hich are expressed by them$ The intellectual orld has become better assured to us, and e are less li"ely to be imposed upon by illusions of ords$ The logic of <ristotle is for the most part latent in the dialogues of Plato$ The nature of definition is explained not by rules but by examples in the Charmides, ;ysis, ;aches, Protagoras, :eno, Euthyphro, Theaetetus, Gorgias, )epublicQ the nature of di!ision is li"e ise illustrated by examples in the ,ophist and ,tatesmanQ a scheme of categories is found in the PhilebusQ the true doctrine of contradiction is taught, and the fallacy of arguing in a circle is exposed in the )epublicQ the nature of synthesis and analysis is graphically described in the PhaedrusQ the nature of ords is analysed in the CratylusQ the form of the syllogism is indicated in the genealogical trees of the ,ophist and ,tatesmanQ a true doctrine of predication and an analysis of the sentence are gi!en in the ,ophistQ the different meanings of one and being are or"ed out in the Parmenides$ +ere e ha!e most of the important elements of logic, not yet systemati6ed or

reduced to an art or science, but scattered up and do n as they ould naturally occur in ordinary discourse$ They are of little or no use or significance to usQ but because e ha!e gro n out of the need of them e should not therefore despise them$ They are still interesting and instructi!e for the light hich they shed on the history of the human mind$ There are indeed many old fallacies hich linger among us, and ne ones are constantly springing up$ *ut they are not of the "ind to hich ancient logic can be usefully applied$ The eapons of common sense, not the analytics of <ristotle, are needed for their o!erthro $ 8or is the use of the <ristotelian logic any longer natural to us$ %e no longer put arguments into the form of syllogisms li"e the schoolmenQ the simple use of language has been, happily, restored to us$ 8either do e discuss the nature of the proposition, nor extract hidden truths from the copula, nor dispute any longer about nominalism and realism$ %e do not confuse the form ith the matter of "no ledge, or in!ent la s of thought, or imagine that any single science furnishes a principle of reasoning to all the rest$ 8either do e reIuire categories or heads of argument to be in!ented for our use$ Those ho ha!e no "no ledge of logic, li"e some of our great physical philosophers, seem to be Iuite as good reasoners as those ho ha!e$ :ost of the ancient pu66les ha!e been settled on the basis of usage and common senseQ there is no need to reopen them$ 8o science should raise problems or in!ent forms of thought hich add nothing to "no ledge and are of no use in assisting the acIuisition of it$ This seems to be the natural limit of logic and metaphysicsQ if they gi!e us a more comprehensi!e or a more definite !ie of the different spheres of "no ledge they are to be studiedQ if not, not$ The better part of ancient logic appears hardly in our o n day to ha!e a separate existenceQ it is absorbed in t o other sciences@ A-B rhetoric, if indeed this ancient art be not also fading a ay into literary criticismQ ADB the science of language, under hich all Iuestions relating to ords and propositions and the combinations of them may properly be included$ To continue dead or imaginary sciences, hich ma"e no signs of progress and ha!e no definite sphere, tends to interfere ith the prosecution of li!ing ones$ The study of them is apt to blind the judgment and to render men

incapable of seeing the !alue of e!idence, and e!en of appreciating the nature of truth$ 8or should e allo the li!ing science to become confused ith the dead by an ambiguity of language$ The term logic has t o different meanings, an ancient and a modern one, and e !ainly try to bridge the gulf bet een them$ :any perplexities are a!oided by "eeping them apart$ There might certainly be a ne science of logicQ it ould not ho e!er be built up out of the fragments of the old, but ould be distinct from themEErelati!e to the state of "no ledge hich exists at the present time, and based chiefly on the methods of :odern 0nducti!e philosophy$ ,uch a science might ha!e t o legitimate fields@ first, the refutation and explanation of false philosophies still ho!ering in the air as they appear from the point of !ie of later experience or are comprehended in the history of the human mind, as in a larger hori6on@ secondly, it might furnish ne forms of thought more adeIuate to the expression of all the di!ersities and oppositions of "no ledge hich ha!e gro n up in these latter daysQ it might also suggest ne methods of enIuiry deri!ed from the comparison of the sciences$ 'e ill deny that the introduction of the ords PsubjectP and PobjectP and the +egelian reconciliation of opposites ha!e been Pmost gracious aidsP to psychology, or that the methods of *acon and :ill ha!e shed a light far and ide on the realms of "no ledge$ These t o great studies, the one destructi!e and correcti!e of error, the other conser!ati!e and constructi!e of truth, might be a first and second part of logic$ <ncient logic ould be the propaedeutic or gate of approach to logical science,EEnothing more$ *ut to pursue such speculations further, though not irrele!ant, might lead us too far a ay from the argument of the dialogue$ The Euthydemus is, of all the &ialogues of Plato, that in hich he approaches most nearly to the comic poet$ The mirth is broader, the irony more sustained, the contrast bet een ,ocrates and the t o ,ophists, although !eiled, penetrates deeper than in any other of his ritings$ E!en Thrasymachus, in the )epublic, is at last pacified, and becomes a friendly and interested auditor of the great discourse$ *ut in the Euthydemus the mas" is ne!er droppedQ the accustomed irony of ,ocrates continues to the end$$$ ,ocrates narrates to Crito a remar"able scene in hich he has himself ta"en part, and in hich the t o brothers, &ionysodorus and Euthydemus, are the chief performers$ They are nati!es of Chios, ho had settled at Thurii, but ere dri!en out, and in former days had been "no n at <thens as

professors of rhetoric and of the art of fighting in armour$ To this they ha!e no added a ne accomplishmentEEthe art of Eristic, or fighting ith ords, hich they are li"e ise illing to teach Pfor a consideration$P *ut they can also teach !irtue in a !ery short time and in the !ery best manner$ ,ocrates, ho is al ays on the loo"Eout for teachers of !irtue, is interested in the youth Cleinias, the grandson of the great <lcibiades, and is desirous that he should ha!e the benefit of their instructions$ +e is ready to fall do n and orship themQ although the greatness of their professions does arouse in his mind a temporary incredulity$ < circle gathers round them, in the midst of hich are ,ocrates, the t o brothers, the youth Cleinias, ho is atched by the eager eyes of his lo!er Ctesippus, and others$ The performance beginsQ and such a performance as might ell seem to reIuire an in!ocation of :emory and the :uses$ 0t is agreed that the brothers shall Iuestion Cleinias$ PCleinias,P says Euthydemus, P ho learn, the ise or the un iseNP PThe ise,P is the replyQ gi!en ith blushing and hesitation$ P<nd yet hen you learned you did not "no and ere not ise$P Then &ionysodorus ta"es up the ball@ P%ho are they ho learn dictation of the grammarEmasterQ the ise or the foolish boysNP PThe ise$P PThen, after all, the ise learn$P P<nd do they learn,P said Euthydemus, P hat they "no or hat they do not "no NP PThe latter$P P<nd dictation is a dictation of lettersNP POes$P P<nd you "no lettersNP POes$P PThen you learn hat you "no $P P*ut,P retorts &ionysodorus, Pis not learning acIuiring "no ledgeNP POes$P P<nd you acIuire that hich you ha!e not got alreadyNP POes$P PThen you learn that hich you do not "no $P ,ocrates is afraid that the youth Cleinias may be discouraged at these repeated o!erthro s$ +e therefore explains to him the nature of the process to hich he is being subjected$ The t o strangers are not seriousQ there are jests at the mysteries hich precede the enthronement, and he is being initiated into the mysteries of the sophistical ritual$ This is all a sort of horseEplay, hich is no ended$ The exhortation to !irtue ill follo , and ,ocrates himself Aif the ise men ill not laugh at himB is desirous of sho ing the ay in hich such an exhortation should be carried on, according to his o n poor notion$ +e proceeds to Iuestion Cleinias$ The result of the in!estigation may be summed up as follo s@EE <ll men desire goodQ and good means the possession of goods, such as ealth, health, beauty, birth, po er, honourQ not forgetting the !irtues

and isdom$ <nd yet in this enumeration the greatest good of all is omitted$ %hat is thatN Good fortune$ *ut hat need is there of good fortune hen e ha!e isdom already@EEin e!ery art and business are not the ise also the fortunateN This is admitted$ <nd again, the possession of goods is not enoughQ there must also be a right use of them hich can only be gi!en by "no ledge@ in themsel!es they are neither good nor e!ilEE "no ledge and isdom are the only good, and ignorance and folly the only e!il$ The conclusion is that e must get P isdom$P *ut can isdom be taughtN POes,P says Cleinias$ The ingenuousness of the youth delights ,ocrates, ho is at once relie!ed from the necessity of discussing one of his great pu66les$ P,ince isdom is the only good, he must become a philosopher, or lo!er of isdom$P PThat 0 ill,P says Cleinias$ <fter ,ocrates has gi!en this specimen of his o n mode of instruction, the t o brothers recommence their exhortation to !irtue, hich is of Iuite another sort$ POou ant Cleinias to be iseNP POes$P P<nd he is not ise yetNP P8o$P PThen you ant him to be hat he is not, and not to be hat he isNEEnot to beEEthat is, to perish$ Pretty lo!ers and friends you must all be#P +ere Ctesippus, the lo!er of Cleinias, interposes in great excitement, thin"ing that he ill teach the t o ,ophists a lesson of good manners$ *ut he is Iuic"ly entangled in the meshes of their sophistryQ and as a storm seems to be gathering ,ocrates pacifies him ith a jo"e, and Ctesippus then says that he is not re!iling the t o ,ophists, he is only contradicting them$ P*ut,P says &ionysodorus, Pthere is no such thing as contradiction$ %hen you and 0 describe the same thing, or you describe one thing and 0 describe another, ho can there be a contradictionNP Ctesippus is unable to reply$ ,ocrates has already heard of the denial of contradiction, and ould li"e to be informed by the great master of the art, P%hat is the meaning of this paradoxN 0s there no such thing as error, ignorance, falsehoodN Then hat are they professing to teachNP The t o ,ophists complain that ,ocrates is ready to ans er hat they said a year ago, but is PnonEplussedP at hat they are saying no $ P%hat does the ord JnonEplussedJ meanNP ,ocrates is informed, in reply, that ords are lifeless things, and lifeless things ha!e no sense or meaning$ Ctesippus again brea"s out, and again has to be pacified by ,ocrates, ho rene s the con!ersation ith Cleinias$ The t o

,ophists are li"e Proteus in the !ariety of their transformations, and he, li"e :enelaus in the 7dyssey, hopes to restore them to their natural form$ +e had arri!ed at the conclusion that Cleinias must become a philosopher$ <nd philosophy is the possession of "no ledgeQ and "no ledge must be of a "ind hich is profitable and may be used$ %hat "no ledge is there hich has such a natureN 8ot the "no ledge hich is reIuired in any particular artQ nor again the art of the composer of speeches, ho "no s ho to rite them, but cannot spea" them, although he too must be admitted to be a "ind of enchanter of ild animals$ 8either is the "no ledge hich e are see"ing the "no ledge of the general$ 'or the general ma"es o!er his prey to the statesman, as the huntsman does to the coo", or the ta"er of Iuails to the "eeper of IuailsQ he has not the use of that hich he acIuires$ The t o enIuirers, Cleinias and ,ocrates, are described as andering about in a ilderness, !ainly searching after the art of life and happiness$ <t last they fix upon the "ingly art, as ha!ing the desired sort of "no ledge$ *ut the "ingly art only gi!es men those goods hich are neither good nor e!il@ and if e say further that it ma"es us ise, in hat does it ma"e us iseN 8ot in special arts, such as cobbling or carpentering, but only in itself@ or say again that it ma"es us good, there is no ans er to the Iuestion, Pgood in hatNP <t length in despair Cleinias and ,ocrates turn to the P&ioscuriP and reIuest their aid$ Euthydemus argues that ,ocrates "no s somethingQ and as he cannot "no and not "no , he cannot "no some things and not "no others, and therefore he "no s all things@ he and &ionysodorus and all other men "no all things$ P&o they "no shoema"ing, etcNP POes$P The sceptical Ctesippus ould li"e to ha!e some e!idence of this extraordinary statement@ he ill belie!e if Euthydemus ill tell him ho many teeth &ionysodorus has, and if &ionysodorus ill gi!e him a li"e piece of information about Euthydemus$ E!en ,ocrates is incredulous, and indulges in a little raillery at the expense of the brothers$ *ut he restrains himself, remembering that if the men ho are to be his teachers thin" him stupid they ill ta"e no pains ith him$ <nother fallacy is produced hich turns on the absoluteness of the !erb Pto "no $P <nd here &ionysodorus is caught Pnapping,P and is induced by ,ocrates to confess that Phe does not "no the good to be unjust$P ,ocrates appeals to his brother EuthydemusQ at the same time he ac"no ledges that he cannot, li"e +eracles, fight against a +ydra, and e!en

+eracles, on the approach of a second monster, called upon his nephe 0olaus to help$ &ionysodorus rejoins that 0olaus as no more the nephe of +eracles than of ,ocrates$ 'or a nephe is a nephe , and a brother is a brother, and a father is a father, not of one man only, but of allQ nor of men only, but of dogs and seaEmonsters$ Ctesippus ma"es merry ith the conseIuences hich follo @ P:uch good has your father got out of the isdom of his puppies$P P*ut,P says Euthydemus, unabashed, Pnobody ants much good$P :edicine is a good, arms are a good, money is a good, and yet there may be too much of them in rong places$ P8o,P says Ctesippus, Pthere cannot be too much gold$P <nd ould you be happy if you had three talents of gold in your belly, a talent in your pate, and a stater in either eyeNP Ctesippus, imitating the ne isdom, replies, P<nd do not the ,cythians rec"on those to be the happiest of men ho ha!e their s"ulls gilded and see the inside of themNP P&o you see,P retorts Euthydemus, P hat has the Iuality of !ision or hat has not the Iuality of !isionNP P%hat has the Iuality of !ision$P P<nd you see our garmentsNP POes$P PThen our garments ha!e the Iuality of !ision$P < similar play of ords follo s, hich is successfully retorted by Ctesippus, to the great delight of Cleinias, ho is rebu"ed by ,ocrates for laughing at such solemn and beautiful things$ P*ut are there any beautiful thingsN <nd if there are such, are they the same or not the same as absolute beautyNP ,ocrates replies that they are not the same, but each of them has some beauty present ith it$ P<nd are you an ox because you ha!e an ox present ith youNP <fter a fe more amphiboliae, in hich ,ocrates, li"e Ctesippus, in selfEdefence borro s the eapons of the brothers, they both confess that the t o heroes are in!incibleQ and the scene concludes ith a grand chorus of shouting and laughing, and a panegyrical oration from ,ocrates@EE 'irst, he praises the indifference of &ionysodorus and Euthydemus to public opinionQ for most persons ould rather be refuted by such arguments than use them in the refutation of others$ ,econdly, he remar"s upon their impartialityQ for they stop their o n mouths, as ell as those of other people$ Thirdly, he notes their liberality, hich ma"es them gi!e a ay their secret to all the orld@ they should be more reser!ed, and let no one be present at this exhibition ho does not pay them a handsome feeQ or better still they might practise on one another only$ +e concludes ith a

respectful reIuest that they ill recei!e him and Cleinias among their disciples$ Crito tells ,ocrates that he has heard one of the audience criticise se!erely this isdom,EEnot sparing ,ocrates himself for countenancing such an exhibition$ ,ocrates as"s hat manner of man as this censorious critic$ P8ot an orator, but a great composer of speeches$P ,ocrates understands that he is an amphibious animal, half philosopher, half politicianQ one of a class ho ha!e the highest opinion of themsel!es and a spite against philosophers, hom they imagine to be their ri!als$ They are a class ho are !ery li"ely to get mauled by Euthydemus and his friends, and ha!e a great notion of their o n isdomQ for they imagine themsel!es to ha!e all the ad!antages and none of the dra bac"s both of politics and of philosophy$ They do not understand the principles of combination, and hence are ignorant that the union of t o good things hich ha!e different ends produces a compound inferior to either of them ta"en separately$ Crito is anxious about the education of his children, one of hom is gro ing up$ The description of &ionysodorus and Euthydemus suggests to him the reflection that the professors of education are strange beings$ ,ocrates consoles him ith the remar" that the good in all professions are fe , and recommends that Phe and his houseP should continue to ser!e philosophy, and not mind about its professors$ $$$ There is a stage in the history of philosophy in hich the old is dying out, and the ne has not yet come into full life$ Great philosophies li"e the Eleatic or +eraclitean, hich ha!e enlarged the boundaries of the human mind, begin to pass a ay in ords$ They subsist only as forms hich ha!e rooted themsel!es in languageEEas troublesome elements of thought hich cannot be either used or explained a ay$ The same absoluteness hich as once attributed to abstractions is no attached to the ords hich are the signs of them$ The philosophy hich in the first and second generation as a great and inspiring effort of reflection, in the third becomes sophistical, !erbal, eristic$ 0t is this stage of philosophy hich Plato satirises in the Euthydemus$ The fallacies hich are noted by him appear trifling to us no , but they

ere not trifling in the age before logic, in the decline of the earlier Gree" philosophies, at a time hen language as first beginning to perplex human thought$ *esides he is caricaturing themQ they probably recei!ed more subtle forms at the hands of those ho seriously maintained them$ They are patent to us in Plato, and e are inclined to onder ho any one could e!er ha!e been decei!ed by themQ but e must remember also that there as a time hen the human mind as only ith great difficulty disentangled from such fallacies$ To appreciate fully the drift of the Euthydemus, e should imagine a mental state in hich not indi!iduals only, but hole schools during more than one generation, ere animated by the desire to exclude the conception of rest, and therefore the !ery ord PthisP ATheaet$B from languageQ in hich the ideas of space, time, matter, motion, ere pro!ed to be contradictory and imaginaryQ in hich the nature of Iualitati!e change as a pu66le, and e!en differences of degree, hen applied to abstract notions, ere not understoodQ in hich there as no analysis of grammar, and mere puns or plays of ords recei!ed serious attentionQ in hich contradiction itself as denied, and, on the one hand, e!ery predicate as affirmed to be true of e!ery subject, and on the other, it as held that no predicate as true of any subject, and that nothing as, or as "no n, or could be spo"en$ ;et us imagine disputes carried on ith religious earnestness and more than scholastic subtlety, in hich the catch ords of philosophy are completely detached from their context$ ACompare Theaet$B To such disputes the humour, hether of Plato in the ancient, or of Pope and , ift in the modern orld, is the natural enemy$ 8or must e forget that in modern times also there is no fallacy so gross, no tric" of language so transparent, no abstraction so barren and unmeaning, no form of thought so contradictory to experience, hich has not been found to satisfy the minds of philosophical enIuirers at a certain stage, or hen regarded from a certain point of !ie only$ The peculiarity of the fallacies of our o n age is that e li!e ithin them, and are therefore generally unconscious of them$ <ristotle has analysed se!eral of the same fallacies in his boo" P&e ,ophisticis Elenchis,P hich Plato, ith eIual command of their true nature, has preferred to bring to the test of ridicule$ <t first e are only struc" ith the broad humour of this Preductio ad absurdum@P gradually e percei!e that some important Iuestions begin to emerge$ +ere, as

e!ery here else, Plato is ma"ing ar against the philosophers ho put ords in the place of things, ho tear arguments to tatters, ho deny predication, and thus ma"e "no ledge impossible, to hom ideas and objects of sense ha!e no fixedness, but are in a state of perpetual oscillation and transition$ T o great truths seem to be indirectly taught through these fallacies@ A-B The uncertainty of language, hich allo s the same ords to be used in different meanings, or ith different degrees of meaning@ ADB The necessary limitation or relati!e nature of all phenomena$ Plato is a are that his o n doctrine of ideas, as ell as the Eleatic *eing and 8otE being, ali"e admit of being regarded as !erbal fallacies$ The sophism ad!anced in the :eno, Pthat you cannot enIuire either into hat you "no or do not "no ,P is lightly touched upon at the commencement of the &ialogueQ the thesis of Protagoras, that e!erything is true to him to hom it seems to be true, is satiri6ed$ 0n contrast ith these fallacies is maintained the ,ocratic doctrine that happiness is gained by "no ledge$ The grammatical pu66les ith hich the &ialogue concludes probably contain allusions to tric"s of language hich may ha!e been practised by the disciples of Prodicus or <ntisthenes$ They ould ha!e had more point, if e ere acIuainted ith the ritings against hich PlatoPs humour is directed$ :ost of the jests appear to ha!e a serious meaningQ but e ha!e lost the clue to some of them, and cannot determine hether, as in the Cratylus, Plato has or has not mixed up purely unmeaning fun ith his satire$ The t o discourses of ,ocrates may be contrasted in se!eral respects ith the exhibition of the ,ophists@ A-B 0n their perfect rele!ancy to the subject of discussion, hereas the ,ophistical discourses are holly irrele!ant@ ADB 0n their enIuiring sympathetic tone, hich encourages the youth, instead of P"noc"ing him do n,P after the manner of the t o ,ophists@ AGB 0n the absence of any definite conclusionEEfor hile ,ocrates and the youth are agreed that philosophy is to be studied, they are not able to arri!e at any certain result about the art hich is to teach it$ This is a Iuestion hich ill hereafter be ans ered in the )epublicQ as the conception of the "ingly art is more fully de!eloped in the Politicus, and the caricature of rhetoric in the Gorgias$ The characters of the &ialogue are easily intelligible$ There is ,ocrates once more in the character of an old manQ and his eIual in years, Crito,

the father of Critobulus, li"e ;ysimachus in the ;aches, his fello demesman A<pol$B, to hom the scene is narrated, and ho once or t ice interrupts ith a remar" after the manner of the interlocutor in the Phaedo, and adds his commentary at the endQ ,ocrates ma"es a playful allusion to his moneyEgetting habits$ There is the youth Cleinias, the grandson of <lcibiades, ho may be compared ith ;ysis, Charmides, :enexenus, and other ingenuous youths out of hose mouths ,ocrates dra s his o n lessons, and to hom he al ays seems to stand in a "indly and sympathetic relation$ Crito ill not belie!e that ,ocrates has not impro!ed or perhaps in!ented the ans ers of Cleinias Acompare PhaedrusB$ The name of the grandson of <lcibiades, ho is described as long dead, AGree"B, and ho died at the age of fortyEfour, in the year V5V *$C$, suggests not only that the intended scene of the Euthydemus could not ha!e been earlier than V5V, but that as a fact this &ialogue could not ha!e been composed before G.5 at the soonest$ Ctesippus, ho is the lo!er of Cleinias, has been already introduced to us in the ;ysis, and seems there too to deser!e the character hich is here gi!en him, of a some hat uproarious young man$ *ut the chief study of all is the picture of the t o brothers, ho are unapproachable in their effrontery, eIually careless of hat they say to others and of hat is said to them, and ne!er at a loss$ They are P<rcades ambo et cantare pares et respondere parati$P ,ome superior degree of it or subtlety is attributed to Euthydemus, ho sees the trap in hich ,ocrates catches &ionysodorus$ The epilogue or conclusion of the &ialogue has been criticised as inconsistent ith the general scheme$ ,uch a criticism is li"e similar criticisms on ,ha"espeare, and proceeds upon a narro notion of the !ariety hich the &ialogue, li"e the drama, seems to admit$ Plato in the abundance of his dramatic po er has chosen to rite a play upon a play, just as he often gi!es us an argument ithin an argument$ <t the same time he ta"es the opportunity of assailing another class of persons ho are as alien from the spirit of philosophy as Euthydemus and &ionysodorus$ The Eclectic, the ,yncretist, the &octrinaire, ha!e been apt to ha!e a bad name both in ancient and modern times$ The persons hom Plato ridicules in the epilogue to the Euthydemus are of this class$ They occupy a borderEground bet een philosophy and politicsQ they "eep out of the dangers of politics, and at the same time use philosophy as a means of ser!ing their o n interests$ Plato Iuaintly describes them as ma"ing t o good things, philosophy and

politics, a little orse by per!erting the objects of both$ :en li"e <ntiphon or ;ysias ould be types of the class$ 7ut of a regard to the respectabilities of life, they are disposed to censure the interest hich ,ocrates ta"es in the exhibition of the t o brothers$ They do not understand, any more than Crito, that he is pursuing his !ocation of detecting the follies of man"ind, hich he finds Pnot unpleasant$P ACompare <pol$B Education is the common subject of all PlatoPs earlier &ialogues$ The concluding remar" of Crito, that he has a difficulty in educating his t o sons, and the ad!ice of ,ocrates to him that he should not gi!e up philosophy because he has no faith in philosophers, seems to be a preparation for the more peremptory declaration of the :eno that P(irtue cannot be taught because there are no teachers$P The reasons for placing the Euthydemus early in the series are@ A-B the similarity in plan and style to the Protagoras, Charmides, and ;ysisQEEthe relation of ,ocrates to the ,ophists is still that of humorous antagonism, not, as in the later &ialogues of Plato, of embittered hatredQ and the places and persons ha!e a considerable family li"enessQ ADB the Euthydemus belongs to the ,ocratic period in hich ,ocrates is represented as illing to learn, but unable to teachQ and in the spirit of MenophonPs :emorabilia, philosophy is defined as Pthe "no ledge hich ill ma"e us happyQP AGB e seem to ha!e passed the stage arri!ed at in the Protagoras, for ,ocrates is no longer discussing hether !irtue can be taughtEEfrom this Iuestion he is relie!ed by the ingenuous declaration of the youth CleiniasQ and AVB not yet to ha!e reached the point at hich he asserts Pthat there are no teachers$P ,uch grounds are precarious, as arguments from style and plan are apt to be AGree"B$ *ut no arguments eIually strong can be urged in fa!our of assigning to the Euthydemus any other position in the series$ E9T+O&E:9, by Plato Translated by *enjamin 1o ett

PE),78, 7' T+E &0<;7G9E@ ,ocrates, ho is the narrator of the &ialogue$ Crito, Cleinias, Euthydemus, &ionysodorus, Ctesippus$ ,CE8E@ The ;yceum$ C)0T7@ %ho as the person, ,ocrates, ith hom you ere tal"ing yesterday at the ;yceumN There as such a cro d around you that 0 could not get ithin hearing, but 0 caught a sight of him o!er their heads, and 0 made out, as 0 thought, that he as a stranger ith hom you ere tal"ing@ ho as heN ,7C)<TE,@ There ere t o, CritoQ hich of them do you meanN C)0T7@ The one hom 0 mean as seated second from you on the rightE hand side$ 0n the middle as Cleinias the young son of <xiochus, ho has onderfully gro nQ he is only about the age of my o n Critobulus, but he is much for arder and !ery goodEloo"ing@ the other is thin and loo"s younger than he is$ ,7C)<TE,@ +e hom you mean, Crito, is EuthydemusQ and on my left hand there as his brother &ionysodorus, ho also too" part in the con!ersation$ C)0T7@ 8either of them are "no n to me, ,ocratesQ they are a ne importation of ,ophists, as 0 should imagine$ 7f hat country are they, and hat is their line of isdomN ,7C)<TE,@ <s to their origin, 0 belie!e that they are nati!es of this part of the orld, and ha!e migrated from Chios to ThuriiQ they ere dri!en out of Thurii, and ha!e been li!ing for many years past in these regions$ <s to their isdom, about hich you as", Crito, they are onderfulEE consummate# 0 ne!er "ne hat the true pancratiast as beforeQ they are simply made up of fighting, not li"e the t o <carnanian brothers ho fight ith their bodies only, but this pair of heroes, besides being perfect in the use of their bodies, are in!incible in e!ery sort of arfareQ for they

are capital at fighting in armour, and ill teach the art to any one ho pays themQ and also they are most s"ilful in legal arfareQ they ill plead themsel!es and teach others to spea" and to compose speeches hich ill ha!e an effect upon the courts$ <nd this as only the beginning of their isdom, but they ha!e at last carried out the pancratiastic art to the !ery end, and ha!e mastered the only mode of fighting hich had been hitherto neglected by themQ and no no one dares e!en to stand up against them@ such is their s"ill in the ar of ords, that they can refute any proposition hether true or false$ 8o 0 am thin"ing, Crito, of placing myself in their handsQ for they say that in a short time they can impart their s"ill to any one$ C)0T7@ *ut, ,ocrates, are you not too oldN there may be reason to fear that$ ,7C)<TE,@ Certainly not, CritoQ as 0 ill pro!e to you, for 0 ha!e the consolation of "no ing that they began this art of disputation hich 0 co!et, Iuite, as 0 may say, in old ageQ last year, or the year before, they had none of their ne isdom$ 0 am only apprehensi!e that 0 may bring the t o strangers into disrepute, as 0 ha!e done Connus the son of :etrobius, the harpEplayer, ho is still my musicEmasterQ for hen the boys ho go to him see me going ith them, they laugh at me and call him grandpapaPs master$ 8o 0 should not li"e the strangers to experience similar treatmentQ the fear of ridicule may ma"e them un illing to recei!e meQ and therefore, Crito, 0 shall try and persuade some old men to accompany me to them, as 0 persuaded them to go ith me to Connus, and 0 hope that you ill ma"e one@ and perhaps e had better ta"e your sons as a baitQ they ill ant to ha!e them as pupils, and for the sa"e of them illing to recei!e us$ C)0T7@ 0 see no objection, ,ocrates, if you li"eQ but first 0 ish that you ould gi!e me a description of their isdom, that 0 may "no beforehand hat e are going to learn$ ,7C)<TE,@ 0n less than no time you shall hearQ for 0 cannot say that 0 did not attendEE0 paid great attention to them, and 0 remember and ill endea!our to repeat the hole story$ Pro!identially 0 as sitting alone in the dressingEroom of the ;yceum here you sa me, and as about to departQ

hen 0 as getting up 0 recogni6ed the familiar di!ine sign@ so 0 sat do n again, and in a little hile the t o brothers Euthydemus and &ionysodorus came in, and se!eral others ith them, hom 0 belie!e to be their disciples, and they al"ed about in the co!ered courtQ they had not ta"en more than t o or three turns hen Cleinias entered, ho, as you truly say, is !ery much impro!ed@ he as follo ed by a host of lo!ers, one of hom as Ctesippus the Paeanian, a ellEbred youth, but also ha!ing the ildness of youth$ Cleinias sa me from the entrance as 0 as sitting alone, and at once came and sat do n on the right hand of me, as you describeQ and &ionysodorus and Euthydemus, hen they sa him, at first stopped and tal"ed ith one another, no and then glancing at us, for 0 particularly atched themQ and then Euthydemus came and sat do n by the youth, and the other by me on the left handQ the rest any here$ 0 saluted the brothers, hom 0 had not seen for a long timeQ and then 0 said to Cleinias@ +ere are t o ise men, Euthydemus and &ionysodorus, Cleinias, ise not in a small but in a large ay of isdom, for they "no all about ar,EEall that a good general ought to "no about the array and command of an army, and the hole art of fighting in armour@ and they "no about la too, and can teach a man ho to use the eapons of the courts hen he is injured$ They heard me say this, but only despised me$ 0 obser!ed that they loo"ed at one another, and both of them laughedQ and then Euthydemus said@ Those, ,ocrates, are matters hich e no longer pursue seriouslyQ to us they are secondary occupations$ 0ndeed, 0 said, if such occupations are regarded by you as secondary, hat must the principal one beQ tell me, 0 beseech you, hat that noble study isN The teaching of !irtue, ,ocrates, he replied, is our principal occupationQ and e belie!e that e can impart it better and Iuic"er than any man$ :y God# 0 said, and here did you learn thatN 0 al ays thought, as 0 as saying just no , that your chief accomplishment as the art of fighting in armourQ and 0 used to say as much of you, for 0 remember that you professed this hen you ere here before$ *ut no if you really ha!e the other

"no ledge, 7 forgi!e me@ 0 address you as 0 ould superior beings, and as" you to pardon the impiety of my former expressions$ *ut are you Iuite sure about this, &ionysodorus and EuthydemusN the promise is so !ast, that a feeling of incredulity steals o!er me$ Oou may ta"e our ord, ,ocrates, for the fact$ Then 0 thin" you happier in ha!ing such a treasure than the great "ing is in the possession of his "ingdom$ <nd please to tell me hether you intend to exhibit your isdomQ or hat ill you doN That is hy e ha!e come hither, ,ocratesQ and our purpose is not only to exhibit, but also to teach any one ho li"es to learn$ *ut 0 can promise you, 0 said, that e!ery un!irtuous person ill ant to learn$ 0 shall be the firstQ and there is the youth Cleinias, and Ctesippus@ and here are se!eral others, 0 said, pointing to the lo!ers of Cleinias, ho ere beginning to gather round us$ 8o Ctesippus as sitting at some distance from CleiniasQ and hen Euthydemus leaned for ard in tal"ing ith me, he as pre!ented from seeing Cleinias, ho as bet een usQ and so, partly because he anted to loo" at his lo!e, and also because he as interested, he jumped up and stood opposite to us@ and all the other admirers of Cleinias, as ell as the disciples of Euthydemus and &ionysodorus, follo ed his example$ <nd these ere the persons hom 0 sho ed to Euthydemus, telling him that they ere all eager to learn@ to hich Ctesippus and all of them ith one !oice !ehemently assented, and bid him exhibit the po er of his isdom$ Then 0 said@ 7 Euthydemus and &ionysodorus, 0 earnestly reIuest you to do myself and the company the fa!our to exhibit$ There may be some trouble in gi!ing the hole exhibitionQ but tell me one thing,EEcan you ma"e a good man of him only ho is already con!inced that he ought to learn of you, or of him also ho is not con!inced, either because he imagines that !irtue is a thing hich cannot be taught at all, or that you are not the teachers of itN +as your art po er to persuade him, ho is of the latter temper of mind, that !irtue can be taughtQ and that you are the men from hom he ill best learn itN

Certainly, ,ocrates, said &ionysodorusQ our art ill do both$ <nd you and your brother, &ionysodorus, 0 said, of all men ho are no li!ing are the most li"ely to stimulate him to philosophy and to the study of !irtueN Oes, ,ocrates, 0 rather thin" that e are$ Then 0 ish that you ould be so good as to defer the other part of the exhibition, and only try to persuade the youth hom you see here that he ought to be a philosopher and study !irtue$ Exhibit that, and you ill confer a great fa!our on me and on e!ery one presentQ for the fact is 0 and all of us are extremely anxious that he should become truly good$ +is name is Cleinias, and he is the son of <xiochus, and grandson of the old <lcibiades, cousin of the <lcibiades that no is$ +e is Iuite young, and e are naturally afraid that some one may get the start of us, and turn his mind in a rong direction, and he may be ruined$ Oour !isit, therefore, is most happily timedQ and 0 hope that you ill ma"e a trial of the young man, and con!erse ith him in our presence, if you ha!e no objection$ These ere pretty nearly the expressions hich 0 usedQ and Euthydemus, in a manly and at the same time encouraging tone, replied@ There can be no objection, ,ocrates, if the young man is only illing to ans er Iuestions$ +e is Iuite accustomed to do so, 0 repliedQ for his friends often come and as" him Iuestions and argue ith himQ and therefore he is Iuite at home in ans ering$ %hat follo ed, Crito, ho can 0 rightly narrateN 'or not slight is the tas" of rehearsing infinite isdom, and therefore, li"e the poets, 0 ought to commence my relation ith an in!ocation to :emory and the :uses$ 8o Euthydemus, if 0 remember rightly, began nearly as follo s@ 7 Cleinias, are those ho learn the ise or the ignorantN The youth, o!erpo ered by the Iuestion blushed, and in his perplexity loo"ed at me for helpQ and 0, "no ing that he as disconcerted, said@ Ta"e courage, Cleinias, and ans er li"e a man hiche!er you thin"Q for my belief is that you ill deri!e the greatest benefit from their Iuestions$

%hiche!er he ans ers, said &ionysodorus, leaning for ard so as to catch my ear, his face beaming ith laughter, 0 prophesy that he ill be refuted, ,ocrates$ %hile he as spea"ing to me, Cleinias ga!e his ans er@ and therefore 0 had no time to arn him of the predicament in hich he as placed, and he ans ered that those ho learned ere the ise$ Euthydemus proceeded@ There are some hom you ould call teachers, are there notN The boy assented$ <nd they are the teachers of those ho learnEEthe grammarEmaster and the lyreEmaster used to teach you and other boysQ and you ere the learnersN Oes$ <nd hen you ere learners you did not as yet "no the things hich you ere learningN 8o, he said$ <nd ere you ise thenN 8o, indeed, he said$ *ut if you ere not ise you ere unlearnedN Certainly$ Oou then, learning hat you did not "no , ere unlearned hen you ere learningN The youth nodded assent$ Then the unlearned learn, and not the ise, Cleinias, as you imagine$

<t these ords the follo ers of Euthydemus, of hom 0 spo"e, li"e a chorus at the bidding of their director, laughed and cheered$ Then, before the youth had time to reco!er his breath, &ionysodorus cle!erly too" him in hand, and said@ Oes, CleiniasQ and hen the grammarEmaster dictated anything to you, ere they the ise boys or the unlearned ho learned the dictationN The ise, replied Cleinias$ Then after all the ise are the learners and not the unlearnedQ and your last ans er to Euthydemus as rong$ Then once more the admirers of the t o heroes, in an ecstasy at their isdom, ga!e !ent to another peal of laughter, hile the rest of us ere silent and ama6ed$ Euthydemus, obser!ing this, determined to perse!ere ith the youthQ and in order to heighten the effect ent on as"ing another similar Iuestion, hich might be compared to the double turn of an expert dancer$ &o those, said he, ho learn, learn hat they "no , or hat they do not "no N <gain &ionysodorus hispered to me@ That, ,ocrates, is just another of the same sort$ Good hea!ens, 0 saidQ and your last Iuestion as so good# ;i"e all our other Iuestions, ,ocrates, he repliedEEine!itable$ 0 see the reason, 0 said, hy you are in such reputation among your disciples$ :ean hile Cleinias had ans ered Euthydemus that those ho learned learn hat they do not "no Q and he put him through a series of Iuestions the same as before$ &o you not "no lettersN +e assented$ <ll lettersN

Oes$ *ut hen the teacher dictates to you, does he not dictate lettersN To this also he assented$ Then if you "no all letters, he dictates that hich you "no N This again as admitted by him$ Then, said the other, you do not learn that hich he dictatesQ but he only ho does not "no letters learnsN 8ay, said CleiniasQ but 0 do learn$ Then, said he, you learn hat you "no , if you "no all the lettersN +e admitted that$ Then, he said, you ere rong in your ans er$ The ord as hardly out of his mouth hen &ionysodorus too" up the argument, li"e a ball hich he caught, and had another thro at the youth$ Cleinias, he said, Euthydemus is decei!ing you$ 'or tell me no , is not learning acIuiring "no ledge of that hich one learnsN Cleinias assented$ <nd "no ing is ha!ing "no ledge at the timeN +e agreed$ <nd not "no ing is not ha!ing "no ledge at the timeN +e admitted that$ <nd are those ho acIuire those ho ha!e or ha!e not a thingN Those ho ha!e not$

<nd ha!e you not admitted that those ho do not "no are of the number of those ho ha!e notN +e nodded assent$ Then those ho learn are of the class of those ho acIuire, and not of those ho ha!eN +e agreed$ Then, Cleinias, he said, those ho do not "no learn, and not those ho "no $ Euthydemus as proceeding to gi!e the youth a third fallQ but 0 "ne that he as in deep ater, and therefore, as 0 anted to gi!e him a respite lest he should be disheartened, 0 said to him consolingly@ Oou must not be surprised, Cleinias, at the singularity of their mode of speech@ this 0 say because you may not understand hat the t o strangers are doing ith youQ they are only initiating you after the manner of the Corybantes in the mysteriesQ and this ans ers to the enthronement, hich, if you ha!e e!er been initiated, is, as you ill "no , accompanied by dancing and sportQ and no they are just prancing and dancing about you, and ill next proceed to initiate youQ imagine then that you ha!e gone through the first part of the sophistical ritual, hich, as Prodicus says, begins ith initiation into the correct use of terms$ The t o foreign gentlemen, percei!ing that you did not "no , anted to explain to you that the ord Pto learnP has t o meanings, and is used, first, in the sense of acIuiring "no ledge of some matter of hich you pre!iously ha!e no "no ledge, and also, hen you ha!e the "no ledge, in the sense of re!ie ing this matter, hether something done or spo"en by the light of this ne lyEacIuired "no ledgeQ the latter is generally called P"no ingP rather than Plearning,P but the ord PlearningP is also usedQ and you did not see, as they explained to you, that the term is employed of t o opposite sorts of men, of those ho "no , and of those ho do not "no $ There as a similar tric" in the second Iuestion, hen they as"ed you hether men learn hat they "no or hat they do not "no $ These parts of learning are not serious, and therefore 0 say that the gentlemen are not serious, but are only playing ith you$ 'or if a man had all that sort of "no ledge that e!er as, he ould not be at all the iserQ

he ould only be able to play ith men, tripping them up and o!ersetting them ith distinctions of ords$ +e ould be li"e a person ho pulls a ay a stool from some one hen he is about to sit do n, and then laughs and ma"es merry at the sight of his friend o!erturned and laid on his bac"$ <nd you must regard all that has hitherto passed bet een you and them as merely play$ *ut in hat is to follo 0 am certain that they ill exhibit to you their serious purpose, and "eep their promise A0 ill sho them ho BQ for they promised to gi!e me a sample of the hortatory philosophy, but 0 suppose that they anted to ha!e a game ith you first$ <nd no , Euthydemus and &ionysodorus, 0 thin" that e ha!e had enough of this$ %ill you let me see you explaining to the young man ho he is to apply himself to the study of !irtue and isdomN <nd 0 ill first sho you hat 0 concei!e to be the nature of the tas", and hat sort of a discourse 0 desire to hearQ and if 0 do this in a !ery inartistic and ridiculous manner, do not laugh at me, for 0 only !enture to impro!ise before you because 0 am eager to hear your isdom@ and 0 must therefore as" you and your disciples to refrain from laughing$ <nd no , 7 son of <xiochus, let me put a Iuestion to you@ &o not all men desire happinessN <nd yet, perhaps, this is one of those ridiculous Iuestions hich 0 am afraid to as", and hich ought not to be as"ed by a sensible man@ for hat human being is there ho does not desire happinessN There is no one, said Cleinias, ho does not$ %ell, then, 0 said, since e all of us desire happiness, ho can e be happyNEEthat is the next Iuestion$ ,hall e not be happy if e ha!e many good thingsN <nd this, perhaps, is e!en a more simple Iuestion than the first, for there can be no doubt of the ans er$ +e assented$ <nd hat things do e esteem goodN 8o solemn sage is reIuired to tell us this, hich may be easily ans eredQ for e!ery one ill say that ealth is a good$ Certainly, he said$ <nd are not health and beauty goods, and other personal giftsN

+e agreed$ Can there be any doubt that good birth, and po er, and honours in onePs o n land, are goodsN +e assented$ <nd hat other goods are thereN 0 said$ %hat do you say of temperance, justice, courage@ do you not !erily and indeed thin", Cleinias, that e shall be more right in ran"ing them as goods than in not ran"ing them as goodsN 'or a dispute might possibly arise about this$ %hat then do you sayN They are goods, said Cleinias$ (ery ell, 0 saidQ and here in the company shall e find a place for isdomEEamong the goods or notN <mong the goods$ <nd no , 0 said, thin" hether e ha!e left out any considerable goods$ 0 do not thin" that e ha!e, said Cleinias$ 9pon recollection, 0 said, indeed 0 am afraid that e ha!e left out the greatest of them all$ %hat is thatN he as"ed$ 'ortune, Cleinias, 0 repliedQ hich all, e!en the most foolish, admit to be the greatest of goods$ True, he said$ 7n second thoughts, 0 added, ho narro ly, 7 son of <xiochus, ha!e you and 0 escaped ma"ing a laughingEstoc" of oursel!es to the strangers$ %hy do you say soN

%hy, because e ha!e already spo"en of goodEfortune, and are but repeating oursel!es$ %hat do you meanN 0 mean that there is something ridiculous in again putting for ard goodE fortune, hich has a place in the list already, and saying the same thing t ice o!er$ +e as"ed hat as the meaning of this, and 0 replied@ ,urely isdom is goodEfortuneQ e!en a child may "no that$ The simpleEminded youth as ama6edQ and, obser!ing his surprise, 0 said to him@ &o you not "no , Cleinias, that fluteEplayers are most fortunate and successful in performing on the fluteN +e assented$ <nd are not the scribes most fortunate in riting and reading lettersN Certainly$ <mid the dangers of the sea, again, are any more fortunate on the hole than ise pilotsN 8one, certainly$ <nd if you ere engaged in ar, in hose company ould you rather ta"e the ris"EEin company ith a ise general, or ith a foolish oneN %ith a ise one$ <nd if you ere ill, hom ould you rather ha!e as a companion in a dangerous illnessEEa ise physician, or an ignorant oneN < ise one$ Oou thin", 0 said, that to act ith a ise man is more fortunate than to

act ith an ignorant oneN +e assented$ Then isdom al ays ma"es men fortunate@ for by isdom no man ould e!er err, and therefore he must act rightly and succeed, or his isdom ould be isdom no longer$ %e contri!ed at last, someho or other, to agree in a general conclusion, that he ho had isdom had no need of fortune$ 0 then recalled to his mind the pre!ious state of the Iuestion$ Oou remember, 0 said, our ma"ing the admission that e should be happy and fortunate if many good things ere present ith usN +e assented$ <nd should e be happy by reason of the presence of good things, if they profited us not, or if they profited usN 0f they profited us, he said$ <nd ould they profit us, if e only had them and did not use themN 'or example, if e had a great deal of food and did not eat, or a great deal of drin" and did not drin", should e be profitedN Certainly not, he said$ 7r ould an artisan, ho had all the implements necessary for his or", and did not use them, be any the better for the possession of themN 'or example, ould a carpenter be any the better for ha!ing all his tools and plenty of ood, if he ne!er or"edN Certainly not, he said$ <nd if a person had ealth and all the goods of hich e ere just no spea"ing, and did not use them, ould he be happy because he possessed themN 8o indeed, ,ocrates$

Then, 0 said, a man ho ould be happy must not only ha!e the good things, but he must also use themQ there is no ad!antage in merely ha!ing themN True$ %ell, Cleinias, but if you ha!e the use as ell as the possession of good things, is that sufficient to confer happinessN Oes, in my opinion$ <nd may a person use them either rightly or ronglyN +e must use them rightly$ That is Iuite true, 0 said$ <nd the rong use of a thing is far orse than the nonEuseQ for the one is an e!il, and the other is neither a good nor an e!il$ Oou admit thatN +e assented$ 8o in the or"ing and use of ood, is not that hich gi!es the right use simply the "no ledge of the carpenterN 8othing else, he said$ <nd surely, in the manufacture of !essels, "no ledge is that hich gi!es the right ay of ma"ing themN +e agreed$ <nd in the use of the goods of hich e spo"e at firstEE ealth and health and beauty, is not "no ledge that hich directs us to the right use of them, and regulates our practice about themN +e assented$ Then in e!ery possession and e!ery use of a thing, "no ledge is that hich gi!es a man not only goodEfortune but successN

+e again assented$ <nd tell me, 0 said, 7 tell me, hat do possessions profit a man, if he ha!e neither good sense nor isdomN %ould a man be better off, ha!ing and doing many things ithout isdom, or a fe things ith isdomN ;oo" at the matter thus@ 0f he did fe er things ould he not ma"e fe er mista"esN if he made fe er mista"es ould he not ha!e fe er misfortunesN and if he had fe er misfortunes ould he not be less miserableN Certainly, he said$ <nd ho ould do leastEEa poor man or a rich manN < poor man$ < ea" man or a strong manN < ea" man$ < noble man or a mean manN < mean man$ <nd a co ard ould do less than a courageous and temperate manN Oes$ <nd an indolent man less than an acti!e manN +e assented$ <nd a slo man less than a Iuic"Q and one ho had dull perceptions of seeing and hearing less than one ho had "een onesN <ll this as mutually allo ed by us$ Then, 0 said, Cleinias, the sum of the matter appears to be that the goods of hich e spo"e before are not to be regarded as goods in themsel!es, but

the degree of good and e!il in them depends on hether they are or are not under the guidance of "no ledge@ under the guidance of ignorance, they are greater e!ils than their opposites, inasmuch as they are more able to minister to the e!il principle hich rules themQ and hen under the guidance of isdom and prudence, they are greater goods@ but in themsel!es they are nothingN That, he replied, is ob!ious$ %hat then is the result of hat has been saidN 0s not this the resultEE that other things are indifferent, and that isdom is the only good, and ignorance the only e!ilN +e assented$ ;et us consider a further point, 0 said@ ,eeing that all men desire happiness, and happiness, as has been sho n, is gained by a use, and a right use, of the things of life, and the right use of them, and goodE fortune in the use of them, is gi!en by "no ledge,EEthe inference is that e!erybody ought by all means to try and ma"e himself as ise as he canN Oes, he said$ <nd hen a man thin"s that he ought to obtain this treasure, far more than money, from a father or a guardian or a friend or a suitor, hether citi6en or strangerEEthe eager desire and prayer to them that they ould impart isdom to you, is not at all dishonourable, CleiniasQ nor is any one to be blamed for doing any honourable ser!ice or ministration to any man, hether a lo!er or not, if his aim is to get isdom$ &o you agreeN 0 said$ Oes, he said, 0 Iuite agree, and thin" that you are right$ Oes, 0 said, Cleinias, if only isdom can be taught, and does not come to man spontaneouslyQ for this is a point hich has still to be considered, and is not yet agreed upon by you and meEE *ut 0 thin", ,ocrates, that isdom can be taught, he said$ *est of men, 0 said, 0 am delighted to hear you say soQ and 0 am also

grateful to you for ha!ing sa!ed me from a long and tiresome in!estigation as to hether isdom can be taught or not$ *ut no , as you thin" that isdom can be taught, and that isdom only can ma"e a man happy and fortunate, ill you not ac"no ledge that all of us ought to lo!e isdom, and you indi!idually ill try to lo!e herN Certainly, ,ocrates, he saidQ 0 ill do my best$ 0 as pleased at hearing thisQ and 0 turned to &ionysodorus and Euthydemus and said@ That is an example, clumsy and tedious 0 admit, of the sort of exhortations hich 0 ould ha!e you gi!eQ and 0 hope that one of you ill set forth hat 0 ha!e been saying in a more artistic style@ or at least ta"e up the enIuiry here 0 left off, and proceed to sho the youth hether he should ha!e all "no ledgeQ or hether there is one sort of "no ledge only hich ill ma"e him good and happy, and hat that is$ 'or, as 0 as saying at first, the impro!ement of this young man in !irtue and isdom is a matter hich e ha!e !ery much at heart$ Thus 0 spo"e, Crito, and as all attention to hat as coming$ 0 anted to see ho they ould approach the Iuestion, and here they ould start in their exhortation to the young man that he should practise isdom and !irtue$ &ionysodorus, ho as the elder, spo"e first$ E!erybodyPs eyes ere directed to ards him, percei!ing that something onderful might shortly be expected$ <nd certainly they ere not far rongQ for the man, Crito, began a remar"able discourse ell orth hearing, and onderfully persuasi!e regarded as an exhortation to !irtue$ Tell me, he said, ,ocrates and the rest of you ho say that you ant this young man to become ise, are you in jest or in real earnestN 0 as led by this to imagine that they fancied us to ha!e been jesting hen e as"ed them to con!erse ith the youth, and that this made them jest and play, and being under this impression, 0 as the more decided in saying that e ere in profound earnest$ &ionysodorus said@ )eflect, ,ocratesQ you may ha!e to deny your ords$ 0 ha!e reflected, 0 saidQ and 0 shall ne!er deny my ords$ %ell, said he, and so you say that you ish Cleinias to become iseN

9ndoubtedly$ <nd he is not ise as yetN <t least his modesty ill not allo him to say that he is$ Oou ish him, he said, to become ise and not, to be ignorantN That e do$ Oou ish him to be hat he is not, and no longer to be hat he isN 0 as thro n into consternation at this$ Ta"ing ad!antage of my consternation he added@ Oou ish him no longer to be hat he is, hich can only mean that you ish him to perish$ Pretty lo!ers and friends they must be ho ant their fa!ourite not to be, or to perish# %hen Ctesippus heard this he got !ery angry Aas a lo!er ell mightB and said@ ,tranger of ThuriiEEif politeness ould allo me 0 should say, < plague upon you# %hat can ma"e you tell such a lie about me and the others, hich 0 hardly li"e to repeat, as that 0 ish Cleinias to perishN Euthydemus replied@ <nd do you thin", Ctesippus, that it is possible to tell a lieN Oes, said CtesippusQ 0 should be mad to say anything else$ <nd in telling a lie, do you tell the thing of hich you spea" or notN Oou tell the thing of hich you spea"$ <nd he ho tells, tells that thing hich he tells, and no otherN Oes, said Ctesippus$ <nd that is a distinct thing apart from other thingsN

Certainly$ <nd he ho says that thing says that hich isN Oes$ <nd he ho says that hich is, says the truth$ <nd therefore &ionysodorus, if he says that hich is, says the truth of you and no lie$ Oes, Euthydemus, said CtesippusQ but in saying this, he says hat is not$ Euthydemus ans ered@ <nd that hich is not is notN True$ <nd that hich is not is no hereN 8o here$ <nd can any one do anything about that hich has no existence, or do to Cleinias that hich is not and is no hereN 0 thin" not, said Ctesippus$ %ell, but do rhetoricians, hen they spea" in the assembly, do nothingN 8ay, he said, they do something$ <nd doing is ma"ingN Oes$ <nd spea"ing is doing and ma"ingN +e agreed$ Then no one says that hich is not, for in saying hat is not he ould be doing somethingQ and you ha!e already ac"no ledged that no one can do hat is not$ <nd therefore, upon your o n sho ing, no one says hat is falseQ

but if &ionysodorus says anything, he says hat is true and hat is$ Oes, Euthydemus, said CtesippusQ but he spea"s of things in a certain ay and manner, and not as they really are$ %hy, Ctesippus, said &ionysodorus, do you mean to say that any one spea"s of things as they areN Oes, he saidEEall gentlemen and truthEspea"ing persons$ <nd are not good things good, and e!il things e!ilN +e assented$ <nd you say that gentlemen spea" of things as they areN Oes$ Then the good spea" e!il of e!il things, if they spea" of them as they areN Oes, indeed, he saidQ and they spea" e!il of e!il men$ <nd if 0 may gi!e you a piece of ad!ice, you had better ta"e care that they do not spea" e!il of you, since 0 can tell you that the good spea" e!il of the e!il$ <nd do they spea" great things of the great, rejoined Euthydemus, and arm things of the armN To be sure they do, said CtesippusQ and they spea" coldly of the insipid and cold dialectician$ Oou are abusi!e, Ctesippus, said &ionysodorus, you are abusi!e# 0ndeed, 0 am not, &ionysodorus, he repliedQ for 0 lo!e you and am gi!ing you friendly ad!ice, and, if 0 could, ould persuade you not li"e a boor to say in my presence that 0 desire my belo!ed, hom 0 !alue abo!e all men, to perish$ 0 sa that they ere getting exasperated ith one another, so 0 made a jo"e ith him and said@ 7 Ctesippus, 0 thin" that e must allo the strangers to use language in their o n ay, and not Iuarrel ith them about ords,

but be than"ful for hat they gi!e us$ 0f they "no ho to destroy men in such a ay as to ma"e good and sensible men out of bad and foolish onesEE hether this is a disco!ery of their o n, or hether they ha!e learned from some one else this ne sort of death and destruction hich enables them to get rid of a bad man and turn him into a good oneEEif they "no this Aand they do "no thisEEat any rate they said just no that this as the secret of their ne lyEdisco!ered artBEElet them, in their phraseology, destroy the youth and ma"e him ise, and all of us ith him$ *ut if you young men do not li"e to trust yoursel!es ith them, then fiat experimentum in corpore senisQ 0 ill be the Carian on hom they shall operate$ <nd here 0 offer my old person to &ionysodorusQ he may put me into the pot, li"e :edea the Colchian, "ill me, boil me, if he ill only ma"e me good$ Ctesippus said@ <nd 0, ,ocrates, am ready to commit myself to the strangersQ they may s"in me ali!e, if they please Aand 0 am pretty ell s"inned by them alreadyB, if only my s"in is made at last, not li"e that of :arsyas, into a leathern bottle, but into a piece of !irtue$ <nd here is &ionysodorus fancying that 0 am angry ith him, hen really 0 am not angry at allQ 0 do but contradict him hen 0 thin" that he is spea"ing improperly to me@ and you must not confound abuse and contradiction, 7 illustrious &ionysodorusQ for they are Iuite different things$ Contradiction# said &ionysodorusQ hy, there ne!er as such a thing$ Certainly there is, he repliedQ there can be no Iuestion of that$ &o you, &ionysodorus, maintain that there is notN Oou ill ne!er pro!e to me, he said, that you ha!e heard any one contradicting any one else$ 0ndeed, said CtesippusQ then no you may hear me contradicting &ionysodorus$ <re you prepared to ma"e that goodN Certainly, he said$ %ell, ha!e not all things ords expressi!e of themN Oes$

7f their existence or of their nonEexistenceN 7f their existence$ Oes, Ctesippus, and e just no pro!ed, as you may remember, that no man could affirm a negati!eQ for no one could affirm that hich is not$ <nd hat does that signifyN said CtesippusQ you and 0 may contradict all the same for that$ *ut can e contradict one another, said &ionysodorus, hen both of us are describing the same thingN Then e must surely be spea"ing the same thingN +e assented$ 7r hen neither of us is spea"ing of the same thingN 'or then neither of us says a ord about the thing at allN +e granted that proposition also$ *ut hen 0 describe something and you describe another thing, or 0 say something and you say nothingEEis there any contradictionN +o can he ho spea"s contradict him ho spea"s notN +ere Ctesippus as silentQ and 0 in my astonishment said@ %hat do you mean, &ionysodorusN 0 ha!e often heard, and ha!e been ama6ed to hear, this thesis of yours, hich is maintained and employed by the disciples of Protagoras, and others before them, and hich to me appears to be Iuite onderful, and suicidal as ell as destructi!e, and 0 thin" that 0 am most li"ely to hear the truth about it from you$ The dictum is that there is no such thing as falsehoodQ a man must either say hat is true or say nothing$ 0s not that your positionN +e assented$ *ut if he cannot spea" falsely, may he not thin" falselyN

8o, he cannot, he said$ Then there is no such thing as false opinionN 8o, he said$ Then there is no such thing as ignorance, or men ho are ignorantQ for is not ignorance, if there be such a thing, a mista"e of factN Certainly, he said$ <nd that is impossibleN 0mpossible, he replied$ <re you saying this as a paradox, &ionysodorusQ or do you seriously maintain no man to be ignorantN )efute me, he said$ *ut ho can 0 refute you, if, as you say, to tell a falsehood is impossibleN (ery true, said Euthydemus$ 8either did 0 tell you just no to refute me, said &ionysodorusQ for ho can 0 tell you to do that hich is notN 7 Euthydemus, 0 said, 0 ha!e but a dull conception of these subtleties and excellent de!ices of isdomQ 0 am afraid that 0 hardly understand them, and you must forgi!e me therefore if 0 as" a !ery stupid Iuestion@ if there be no falsehood or false opinion or ignorance, there can be no such thing as erroneous action, for a man cannot fail of acting as he is actingEEthat is hat you meanN Oes, he replied$ <nd no , 0 said, 0 ill as" my stupid Iuestion@ 0f there is no such thing as error in deed, ord, or thought, then hat, in the name of goodness, do

you come hither to teachN <nd ere you not just no saying that you could teach !irtue best of all men, to any one ho as illing to learnN <nd are you such an old fool, ,ocrates, rejoined &ionysodorus, that you bring up no hat 0 said at firstEEand if 0 had said anything last year, 0 suppose that you ould bring that up tooEEbut are nonEplussed at the ords hich 0 ha!e just utteredN %hy, 0 said, they are not easy to ans erQ for they are the ords of ise men@ and indeed 0 "no not hat to ma"e of this ord Pnonplussed,P hich you used last@ hat do you mean by it, &ionysodorusN Oou must mean that 0 cannot refute your argument$ Tell me if the ords ha!e any other sense$ 8o, he replied, they mean hat you say$ <nd no ans er$ %hat, before you, &ionysodorusN 0 said$ <ns er, said he$ <nd is that fairN Oes, Iuite fair, he said$ 9pon hat principleN 0 said$ 0 can only suppose that you are a !ery ise man ho comes to us in the character of a great logician, and ho "no s hen to ans er and hen not to ans erEEand no you ill not open your mouth at all, because you "no that you ought not$ Oou prate, he said, instead of ans ering$ *ut if, my good sir, you admit that 0 am ise, ans er as 0 tell you$ 0 suppose that 0 must obey, for you are master$ Put the Iuestion$ <re the things hich ha!e sense ali!e or lifelessN They are ali!e$ <nd do you "no of any ord hich is ali!eN

0 cannot say that 0 do$ Then hy did you as" me hat sense my ords hadN %hy, because 0 as stupid and made a mista"e$ <nd yet, perhaps, 0 as right after all in saying that ords ha!e a senseQEE hat do you say, ise manN 0f 0 as not in error, e!en you ill not refute me, and all your isdom ill be nonEplussedQ but if 0 did fall into error, then again you are rong in saying that there is no error,EEand this remar" as made by you not Iuite a year ago$ 0 am inclined to thin", ho e!er, &ionysodorus and Euthydemus, that this argument lies here it as and is not !ery li"ely to ad!ance@ e!en your s"ill in the subtleties of logic, hich is really ama6ing, has not found out the ay of thro ing another and not falling yourself, no any more than of old$ Ctesippus said@ :en of Chios, Thurii, or ho e!er and hate!er you call yoursel!es, 0 onder at you, for you seem to ha!e no objection to tal"ing nonsense$ 'earing that there ould be high ords, 0 again endea!oured to soothe Ctesippus, and said to him@ To you, Ctesippus, 0 must repeat hat 0 said before to CleiniasEEthat you do not understand the ays of these philosophers from abroad$ They are not serious, but, li"e the Egyptian i6ard, Proteus, they ta"e different forms and decei!e us by their enchantments@ and let us, li"e :enelaus, refuse to let them go until they sho themsel!es to us in earnest$ %hen they begin to be in earnest their full beauty ill appear@ let us then beg and entreat and beseech them to shine forth$ <nd 0 thin" that 0 had better once more exhibit the form in hich 0 pray to behold themQ it might be a guide to them$ 0 ill go on therefore here 0 left off, as ell as 0 can, in the hope that 0 may touch their hearts and mo!e them to pity, and that hen they see me deeply serious and interested, they also may be serious$ Oou, Cleinias, 0 said, shall remind me at hat point e left off$ &id e not agree that philosophy should be studiedN and as not that our conclusionN Oes, he replied$ <nd philosophy is the acIuisition of "no ledgeN

Oes, he said$ <nd hat "no ledge ought e to acIuireN :ay e not ans er ith absolute truthEE< "no ledge hich ill do us goodN Certainly, he said$ <nd should e be any the better if e ent about ha!ing a "no ledge of the places here most gold as hidden in the earthN Perhaps e should, he said$ *ut ha!e e not already pro!ed, 0 said, that e should be none the better off, e!en if ithout trouble and digging all the gold hich there is in the earth ere oursN <nd if e "ne ho to con!ert stones into gold, the "no ledge ould be of no !alue to us, unless e also "ne ho to use the goldN &o you not rememberN 0 said$ 0 Iuite remember, he said$ 8or ould any other "no ledge, hether of moneyEma"ing, or of medicine, or of any other art hich "no s only ho to ma"e a thing, and not to use it hen made, be of any good to us$ <m 0 not rightN +e agreed$ <nd if there ere a "no ledge hich as able to ma"e men immortal, ithout gi!ing them the "no ledge of the ay to use the immortality, neither ould there be any use in that, if e may argue from the analogy of the pre!ious instancesN To all this he agreed$ Then, my dear boy, 0 said, the "no ledge hich e ant is one that uses as ell as ma"esN True, he said$

<nd our desire is not to be s"ilful lyreEma"ers, or artists of that sortEE far other iseQ for ith them the art hich ma"es is one, and the art hich uses is another$ <lthough they ha!e to do ith the same, they are di!ided@ for the art hich ma"es and the art hich plays on the lyre differ idely from one another$ <m 0 not rightN +e agreed$ <nd clearly e do not ant the art of the fluteEma"erQ this is only another of the same sortN +e assented$ *ut suppose, 0 said, that e ere to learn the art of ma"ing speechesEE ould that be the art hich ould ma"e us happyN 0 should say, no, rejoined Cleinias$ <nd hy should you say soN 0 as"ed$ 0 see, he replied, that there are some composers of speeches ho do not "no ho to use the speeches hich they ma"e, just as the ma"ers of lyres do not "no ho to use the lyresQ and also some ho are of themsel!es unable to compose speeches, but are able to use the speeches hich the others ma"e for themQ and this pro!es that the art of ma"ing speeches is not the same as the art of using them$ Oes, 0 saidQ and 0 ta"e your ords to be a sufficient proof that the art of ma"ing speeches is not one hich ill ma"e a man happy$ <nd yet 0 did thin" that the art hich e ha!e so long been see"ing might be disco!ered in that directionQ for the composers of speeches, hene!er 0 meet them, al ays appear to me to be !ery extraordinary men, Cleinias, and their art is lofty and di!ine, and no onder$ 'or their art is a part of the great art of enchantment, and hardly, if at all, inferior to it@ and hereas the art of the enchanter is a mode of charming sna"es and spiders and scorpions, and other monsters and pests, this art of theirPs acts upon dicasts and ecclesiasts and bodies of men, for the charming and pacifying of them$ &o you agree ith meN

Oes, he said, 0 thin" that you are Iuite right$ %hither then shall e go, 0 said, and to hat art shall e ha!e recourseN 0 do not see my ay, he said$ *ut 0 thin" that 0 do, 0 replied$ <nd hat is your notionN as"ed Cleinias$ 0 thin" that the art of the general is abo!e all others the one of hich the possession is most li"ely to ma"e a man happy$ 0 do not thin" so, he said$ %hy notN 0 said$ The art of the general is surely an art of hunting man"ind$ %hat of thatN 0 said$ %hy, he said, no art of hunting extends beyond hunting and capturingQ and hen the prey is ta"en the huntsman or fisherman cannot use itQ but they hand it o!er to the coo", and the geometricians and astronomers and calculators A ho all belong to the hunting class, for they do not ma"e their diagrams, but only find out that hich as pre!iously contained in themBEEthey, 0 say, not being able to use but only to catch their prey, hand o!er their in!entions to the dialectician to be applied by him, if they ha!e any sense in them$ Good, 0 said, fairest and isest Cleinias$ <nd is this trueN Certainly, he saidQ just as a general hen he ta"es a city or a camp hands o!er his ne acIuisition to the statesman, for he does not "no ho to use them himselfQ or as the IuailEta"er transfers the Iuails to the "eeper of them$ 0f e are loo"ing for the art hich is to ma"e us blessed, and hich is able to use that hich it ma"es or ta"es, the art of the general is not the one, and some other must be found$ C)0T7@ <nd do you mean, ,ocrates, that the youngster said all thisN

,7C)<TE,@ <re you incredulous, CritoN C)0T7@ 0ndeed, 0 amQ for if he did say so, then in my opinion he needs neither Euthydemus nor any one else to be his instructor$ ,7C)<TE,@ Perhaps 0 may ha!e forgotten, and Ctesippus as the real ans erer$ C)0T7@ Ctesippus# nonsense$ ,7C)<TE,@ <ll 0 "no is that 0 heard these ords, and that they ere not spo"en either by Euthydemus or &ionysodorus$ 0 dare say, my good Crito, that they may ha!e been spo"en by some superior person@ that 0 heard them 0 am certain$ C)0T7@ Oes, indeed, ,ocrates, by some one a good deal superior, as 0 should be disposed to thin"$ *ut did you carry the search any further, and did you find the art hich you ere see"ingN ,7C)<TE,@ 'ind# my dear sir, no indeed$ <nd e cut a poor figureQ e ere li"e children after lar"s, al ays on the point of catching the art, hich as al ays getting a ay from us$ *ut hy should 0 repeat the hole storyN <t last e came to the "ingly art, and enIuired hether that ga!e and caused happiness, and then e got into a labyrinth, and hen e thought e ere at the end, came out again at the beginning, ha!ing still to see" as much as e!er$ C)0T7@ +o did that happen, ,ocratesN ,7C)<TE,@ 0 ill tell youQ the "ingly art as identified by us ith the political$ C)0T7@ %ell, and hat came of thatN ,7C)<TE,@ To this royal or political art all the arts, including the art of the general, seemed to render up the supremacy, that being the only one hich "ne ho to use hat they produce$ +ere ob!iously as the !ery art hich e ere see"ingEEthe art hich is the source of good go!ernment, and

hich may be described, in the language of <eschylus, as alone sitting at the helm of the !essel of state, piloting and go!erning all things, and utili6ing them$ C)0T7@ <nd ere you not right, ,ocratesN ,7C)<TE,@ Oou shall judge, Crito, if you are illing to hear hat follo edQ for e resumed the enIuiry, and a Iuestion of this sort as as"ed@ &oes the "ingly art, ha!ing this supreme authority, do anything for usN To be sure, as the ans er$ <nd ould not you, Crito, say the sameN C)0T7@ Oes, 0 should$ ,7C)<TE,@ <nd hat ould you say that the "ingly art doesN 0f medicine ere supposed to ha!e supreme authority o!er the subordinate arts, and 0 ere to as" you a similar Iuestion about that, you ould sayEEit produces healthN C)0T7@ 0 should$ ,7C)<TE,@ <nd hat of your o n art of husbandry, supposing that to ha!e supreme authority o!er the subject artsEE hat does that doN &oes it not supply us ith the fruits of the earthN C)0T7@ Oes$ ,7C)<TE,@ <nd hat does the "ingly art do hen in!ested ith supreme po erN Perhaps you may not be ready ith an ans erN C)0T7@ 0ndeed 0 am not, ,ocrates$ ,7C)<TE,@ 8o more ere e, Crito$ *ut at any rate you "no that if this is the art hich e ere see"ing, it ought to be useful$ C)0T7@ Certainly$ ,7C)<TE,@ <nd surely it ought to do us some goodN C)0T7@ Certainly, ,ocrates$

,7C)<TE,@ <nd Cleinias and 0 had arri!ed at the conclusion that "no ledge of some "ind is the only good$ C)0T7@ Oes, that as hat you ere saying$ ,7C)<TE,@ <ll the other results of politics, and they are many, as for example, ealth, freedom, tranIuillity, ere neither good nor e!il in themsel!esQ but the political science ought to ma"e us ise, and impart "no ledge to us, if that is the science hich is li"ely to do us good, and ma"e us happy$ C)0T7@ OesQ that as the conclusion at hich you had arri!ed, according to your report of the con!ersation$ ,7C)<TE,@ <nd does the "ingly art ma"e men ise and goodN C)0T7@ %hy not, ,ocratesN ,7C)<TE,@ %hat, all men, and in e!ery respectN and teach them all the arts,EEcarpentering, and cobbling, and the rest of themN C)0T7@ 0 thin" not, ,ocrates$ ,7C)<TE,@ *ut then hat is this "no ledge, and hat are e to do ith itN 'or it is not the source of any or"s hich are neither good nor e!il, and gi!es no "no ledge, but the "no ledge of itselfQ hat then can it be, and hat are e to do ith itN ,hall e say, Crito, that it is the "no ledge by hich e are to ma"e other men goodN C)0T7@ *y all means$ ,7C)<TE,@ <nd in hat ill they be good and usefulN ,hall e repeat that they ill ma"e others good, and that these others ill ma"e others again, ithout e!er determining in hat they are to be goodQ for e ha!e put aside the results of politics, as they are called$ This is the old, old song

o!er againQ and e are just as far as e!er, if not farther, from the "no ledge of the art or science of happiness$ C)0T7@ 0ndeed, ,ocrates, you do appear to ha!e got into a great perplexity$ ,7C)<TE,@ Thereupon, Crito, seeing that 0 as on the point of ship rec", 0 lifted up my !oice, and earnestly entreated and called upon the strangers to sa!e me and the youth from the hirlpool of the argumentQ they ere our Castor and Pollux, 0 said, and they should be serious, and sho us in sober earnest hat that "no ledge as hich ould enable us to pass the rest of our li!es in happiness$ C)0T7@ <nd did Euthydemus sho you this "no ledgeN ,7C)<TE,@ Oes, indeedQ he proceeded in a lofty strain to the follo ing effect@ %ould you rather, ,ocrates, said he, that 0 should sho you this "no ledge about hich you ha!e been doubting, or shall 0 pro!e that you already ha!e itN %hat, 0 said, are you blessed ith such a po er as thisN 0ndeed 0 am$ Then 0 ould much rather that you should pro!e me to ha!e such a "no ledgeQ at my time of life that ill be more agreeable than ha!ing to learn$ Then tell me, he said, do you "no anythingN Oes, 0 said, 0 "no many things, but not anything of much importance$ That ill do, he said@ <nd ould you admit that anything is hat it is, and at the same time is not hat it isN Certainly not$ <nd did you not say that you "ne somethingN

0 did$ 0f you "no , you are "no ing$ Certainly, of the "no ledge hich 0 ha!e$ That ma"es no differenceQEEand must you not, if you are "no ing, "no all thingsN Certainly not, 0 said, for there are many other things hich 0 do not "no $ <nd if you do not "no , you are not "no ing$ Oes, friend, of that hich 0 do not "no $ ,till you are not "no ing, and you said just no that you ere "no ingQ and therefore you are and are not at the same time, and in reference to the same things$ < pretty clatter, as men say, Euthydemus, this of yours# and ill you explain ho 0 possess that "no ledge for hich e ere see"ingN &o you mean to say that the same thing cannot be and also not beQ and therefore, since 0 "no one thing, that 0 "no all, for 0 cannot be "no ing and not "no ing at the same time, and if 0 "no all things, then 0 must ha!e the "no ledge for hich e are see"ingEE:ay 0 assume this to be your ingenious notionN 7ut of your o n mouth, ,ocrates, you are con!icted, he said$ %ell, but, Euthydemus, 0 said, has that ne!er happened to youN for if 0 am only in the same case ith you and our belo!ed &ionysodorus, 0 cannot complain$ Tell me, then, you t o, do you not "no some things, and not "no othersN Certainly not, ,ocrates, said &ionysodorus$ %hat do you mean, 0 saidQ do you "no nothingN 8ay, he replied, e do "no something$

Then, 0 said, you "no all things, if you "no anythingN Oes, all things, he saidQ and that is as true of you as of us$ 7, indeed, 0 said, hat a onderful thing, and hat a great blessing# <nd do all other men "no all things or nothingN Certainly, he repliedQ they cannot "no some things, and not "no others, and be at the same time "no ing and not "no ing$ Then hat is the inferenceN 0 said$ They all "no all things, he replied, if they "no one thing$ 7 hea!ens, &ionysodorus, 0 said, 0 see no that you are in earnestQ hardly ha!e 0 got you to that point$ <nd do you really and truly "no all things, including carpentering and leatherEcuttingN Certainly, he said$ <nd do you "no stitchingN Oes, by the gods, e do, and cobbling, too$ <nd do you "no things such as the numbers of the stars and of the sandN CertainlyQ did you thin" e should say 8o to thatN *y Weus, said Ctesippus, interrupting, 0 only ish that you ould gi!e me some proof hich ould enable me to "no hether you spea" truly$ %hat proof shall 0 gi!e youN he said$ %ill you tell me ho many teeth Euthydemus hasN and Euthydemus shall tell ho many teeth you ha!e$ %ill you not ta"e our ord that e "no all thingsN

Certainly not, said Ctesippus@ you must further tell us this one thing, and then e shall "no that you are spea" the truthQ if you tell us the number, and e count them, and you are found to be right, e ill belie!e the rest$ They fancied that Ctesippus as ma"ing game of them, and they refused, and they ould only say in ans er to each of his Iuestions, that they "ne all things$ 'or at last Ctesippus began to thro off all restraintQ no Iuestion in fact as too bad for himQ he ould as" them if they "ne the foulest things, and they, li"e ild boars, came rushing on his blo s, and fearlessly replied that they did$ <t last, Crito, 0 too as carried a ay by my incredulity, and as"ed Euthydemus hether &ionysodorus could dance$ Certainly, he replied$ <nd can he !ault among s ords, and turn upon a heel, at his ageN has he got to such a height of s"ill as thatN +e can do anything, he said$ <nd did you al ays "no thisN <l ays, he said$ %hen you ere children, and at your birthN They both said that they did$ This e could not belie!e$ <nd Euthydemus said@ Oou are incredulous, ,ocrates$ Oes, 0 said, and 0 might ell be incredulous, if 0 did not "no you to be ise men$ *ut if you ill ans er, he said, 0 ill ma"e you confess to similar mar!els$ %ell, 0 said, there is nothing that 0 should li"e better than to be selfE con!icted of this, for if 0 am really a ise man, hich 0 ne!er "ne before, and you ill pro!e to me that 0 "no and ha!e al ays "no n all

things, nothing in life ould be a greater gain to me$ <ns er then, he said$ <s", 0 said, and 0 ill ans er$ &o you "no something, ,ocrates, or nothingN ,omething, 0 said$ <nd do you "no ith hat you "no , or ith something elseN

%ith hat 0 "no Q and 0 suppose that you mean ith my soulN <re you not ashamed, ,ocrates, of as"ing a Iuestion hen you are as"ed oneN %ell, 0 saidQ but then hat am 0 to doN for 0 ill do hate!er you bidQ hen 0 do not "no hat you are as"ing, you tell me to ans er ne!ertheless, and not to as" again$ %hy, you surely ha!e some notion of my meaning, he said$ Oes, 0 replied$ %ell, then, ans er according to your notion of my meaning$ Oes, 0 saidQ but if the Iuestion hich you as" in one sense is understood and ans ered by me in another, ill that please youEEif 0 ans er hat is not to the pointN That ill please me !ery ellQ but ill not please you eIually ell, as 0 imagine$ 0 certainly ill not ans er unless 0 understand you, 0 said$ Oou ill not ans er, he said, according to your !ie of the meaning, because you ill be prating, and are an ancient$ 8o 0 sa that he as getting angry ith me for dra ing distinctions, hen

he anted to catch me in his springes of ords$ <nd 0 remembered that Connus as al ays angry ith me hen 0 opposed him, and then he neglected me, because he thought that 0 as stupidQ and as 0 as intending to go to Euthydemus as a pupil, 0 reflected that 0 had better let him ha!e his ay, as he might thin" me a bloc"head, and refuse to ta"e me$ ,o 0 said@ Oou are a far better dialectician than myself, Euthydemus, for 0 ha!e ne!er made a profession of the art, and therefore do as you sayQ as" your Iuestions once more, and 0 ill ans er$ <ns er then, he said, again, hether you "no something, or ith nothing$ Oes, 0 saidQ 0 "no ith my soul$ hat you "no ith

The man ill ans er more than the IuestionQ for 0 did not as" you, he said, ith hat you "no , but hether you "no ith something$ <gain 0 replied, Through ignorance 0 ha!e ans ered too much, but 0 hope that you ill forgi!e me$ <nd no 0 ill ans er simply that 0 al ays "no hat 0 "no ith something$ <nd is that something, he rejoined, al ays the same, or sometimes one thing, and sometimes another thingN <l ays, 0 replied, hen 0 "no , 0 "no ith this$

%ill you not cease adding to your ans ersN :y fear is that this ord Pal aysP may get us into trouble$ Oou, perhaps, but certainly not us$ <nd no ans er@ &o you al ays "no ith thisN <l aysQ since 0 am reIuired to ithdra the ords P hen 0 "no $P Oou al ays "no ith this, or, al ays "no ing, do you "no some things ith this, and some things ith something else, or do you "no all things ith

thisN <ll that 0 "no , 0 replied, 0 "no ith this$

There again, ,ocrates, he said, the addition is superfluous$ %ell, then, 0 said, 0 ill ta"e a ay the ords Pthat 0 "no $P 8ay, ta"e nothing a ayQ 0 desire no fa!ours of youQ but let me as"@ %ould you be able to "no all things, if you did not "no all thingsN Ruite impossible$ <nd no , he said, you may add on hate!er you li"e, for you confess that you "no all things$ 0 suppose that is true, 0 said, if my Iualification implied in the ords Pthat 0 "no P is not allo ed to standQ and so 0 do "no all things$ <nd ha!e you not admitted that you al ays "no all things ith that hich you "no , hether you ma"e the addition of P hen you "no themP or notN for you ha!e ac"no ledged that you ha!e al ays and at once "no n all things, that is to say, hen you ere a child, and at your birth, and hen you ere gro ing up, and before you ere born, and before the hea!en and earth existed, you "ne all things, if you al ays "no themQ and 0 s ear that you shall al ays continue to "no all things, if 0 am of the mind to ma"e you$ *ut 0 hope that you ill be of that mind, re!erend Euthydemus, 0 said, if you are really spea"ing the truth, and yet 0 a little doubt your po er to ma"e good your ords unless you ha!e the help of your brother &ionysodorusQ then you may do it$ Tell me no , both of you, for although in the main 0 cannot doubt that 0 really do "no all things, hen 0 am told so by men of your prodigious isdomEEho can 0 say that 0 "no such things, Euthydemus, as that the good are unjustQ come, do 0 "no that or notN Certainly, you "no that$

%hat do 0 "no N That the good are not unjust$ Ruite true, 0 saidQ and that 0 ha!e al ays "no nQ but the Iuestion is, here did 0 learn that the good are unjustN 8o here, said &ionysodorus$ Then, 0 said, 0 do not "no this$ Oou are ruining the argument, said Euthydemus to &ionysodorusQ he ill be pro!ed not to "no , and then after all he ill be "no ing and not "no ing at the same time$ &ionysodorus blushed$ 0 turned to the other, and said, %hat do you thin", EuthydemusN &oes not your omniscient brother appear to you to ha!e made a mista"eN %hat, replied &ionysodorus in a momentQ am 0 the brother of EuthydemusN Thereupon 0 said, Please not to interrupt, my good friend, or pre!ent Euthydemus from pro!ing to me that 0 "no the good to be unjustQ such a lesson you might at least allo me to learn$ Oou are running a ay, ,ocrates, said &ionysodorus, and refusing to ans er$ 8o onder, 0 said, for 0 am not a match for one of you, and a fortiori 0 must run a ay from t o$ 0 am no +eraclesQ and e!en +eracles could not fight against the +ydra, ho as a sheE,ophist, and had the it to shoot up many ne heads hen one of them as cut offQ especially hen he sa a second monster of a seaEcrab, ho as also a ,ophist, and appeared to ha!e ne ly arri!ed from a seaE!oyage, bearing do n upon him from the left, opening his mouth and biting$ %hen the monster as gro ing troublesome he called 0olaus, his nephe , to his help, ho ably succoured himQ but if my 0olaus, ho is my brother Patrocles Athe statuaryB, ere to come, he ould only ma"e a bad business orse$

<nd no that you ha!e deli!ered yourself of this strain, said &ionysodorus, ill you inform me hether 0olaus as the nephe of +eracles any more than he is yoursN 0 suppose that 0 had best ans er you, &ionysodorus, 0 said, for you ill insist on as"ingEEthat 0 pretty ell "no EEout of en!y, in order to pre!ent me from learning the isdom of Euthydemus$ Then ans er me, he said$ %ell then, 0 said, 0 can only reply that 0olaus as not my nephe at all, but the nephe of +eraclesQ and his father as not my brother Patrocles, but 0phicles, ho has a name rather li"e his, and as the brother of +eracles$ <nd is Patrocles, he said, your brotherN Oes, 0 said, he is my halfEbrother, the son of my mother, but not of my father$ Then he is and is not your brother$ 8ot by the same father, my good man, 0 said, for Chaeredemus as his father, and mine as ,ophroniscus$ <nd as ,ophroniscus a father, and Chaeredemus alsoN Oes, 0 saidQ the former as my father, and the latter his$ Then, he said, Chaeredemus is not a father$ +e is not my father, 0 said$ *ut can a father be other than a fatherN or are you the same as a stoneN 0 certainly do not thin" that 0 am a stone, 0 said, though 0 am afraid that you may pro!e me to be one$ <re you not other than a stoneN

0 am$ <nd being other than a stone, you are not a stoneQ and being other than gold, you are not goldN (ery true$ <nd so Chaeredemus, he said, being other than a father, is not a fatherN 0 suppose that he is not a father, 0 replied$ 'or if, said Euthydemus, ta"ing up the argument, Chaeredemus is a father, then ,ophroniscus, being other than a father, is not a fatherQ and you, ,ocrates, are ithout a father$ Ctesippus, here ta"ing up the argument, said@ <nd is not your father in the same case, for he is other than my fatherN <ssuredly not, said Euthydemus$ Then he is the sameN +e is the same$ 0 cannot say that 0 li"e the connectionQ but is he only my father, Euthydemus, or is he the father of all other menN 7f all other men, he replied$ &o you suppose the same person to be a father and not a fatherN Certainly, 0 did so imagine, said Ctesippus$ <nd do you suppose that gold is not gold, or that a man is not a manN They are not Pin pari materia,P Euthydemus, said Ctesippus, and you had better ta"e care, for it is monstrous to suppose that your father is the father of all$ *ut he is, he replied$

%hat, of men only, said Ctesippus, or of horses and of all other animalsN 7f all, he said$ <nd your mother, too, is the mother of allN Oes, our mother too$ OesQ and your mother has a progeny of seaEurchins thenN OesQ and yours, he said$ <nd gudgeons and puppies and pigs are your brothersN <nd yours too$ <nd your papa is a dogN <nd so is yours, he said$ 0f you ill ans er my Iuestions, said &ionysodorus, 0 ill soon extract the same admissions from you, Ctesippus$ Oou say that you ha!e a dog$ Oes, a !illain of a one, said Ctesippus$ <nd he has puppiesN Oes, and they are !ery li"e himself$ <nd the dog is the father of themN Oes, he said, 0 certainly sa him and the mother of the puppies come together$ <nd is he not yoursN To be sure he is$ Then he is a father, and he is yoursQ ergo, he is your father, and the

puppies are your brothers$ ;et me as" you one little Iuestion more, said &ionysodorus, Iuic"ly interposing, in order that Ctesippus might not get in his ord@ Oou beat this dogN Ctesippus said, laughing, 0ndeed 0 doQ and 0 only ish that 0 could beat you instead of him$ Then you beat your father, he said$ 0 should ha!e far more reason to beat yours, said CtesippusQ hat could he ha!e been thin"ing of hen he begat such ise sonsN much good has this father of you and your brethren the puppies got out of this isdom of yours$ *ut neither he nor you, Ctesippus, ha!e any need of much good$ <nd ha!e you no need, EuthydemusN he said$ 8either 0 nor any other manQ for tell me no , Ctesippus, if you thin" it good or e!il for a man ho is sic" to drin" medicine hen he ants itQ or to go to ar armed rather than unarmed$ Good, 0 say$ <nd yet 0 "no that 0 am going to be caught in one of your charming pu66les$ That, he replied, you ill disco!er, if you ans erQ since you admit medicine to be good for a man to drin", hen anted, must it not be good for him to drin" as much as possibleQ hen he ta"es his medicine, a cartload of hellebore ill not be too much for himN Ctesippus said@ Ruite so, Euthydemus, that is to say, if he ho drin"s is as big as the statue of &elphi$ <nd seeing that in ar to ha!e arms is a good thing, he ought to ha!e as many spears and shields as possibleN (ery true, said CtesippusQ and do you thin", Euthydemus, that he ought to ha!e one shield only, and one spearN

0 do$ <nd ould you arm Geryon and *riareus in that ayN Considering that you and your companion fight in armour, 0 thought that you ould ha!e "no n better$$$+ere Euthydemus held his peace, but &ionysodorus returned to the pre!ious ans er of Ctesippus and said@EE &o you not thin" that the possession of gold is a good thingN Oes, said Ctesippus, and the more the better$ <nd to ha!e money e!ery here and al ays is a goodN Certainly, a great good, he said$ <nd you admit gold to be a goodN Certainly, he replied$ <nd ought not a man then to ha!e gold e!ery here and al ays, and as much as possible in himself, and may he not be deemed the happiest of men ho has three talents of gold in his belly, and a talent in his pate, and a stater of gold in either eyeN Oes, Euthydemus, said CtesippusQ and the ,cythians rec"on those ho ha!e gold in their o n s"ulls to be the happiest and bra!est of men Athat is only another instance of your manner of spea"ing about the dog and fatherB, and hat is still more extraordinary, they drin" out of their o n s"ulls gilt, and see the inside of them, and hold their o n head in their hands$ <nd do the ,cythians and others see that hich has the Iuality of !ision, or that hich has notN said Euthydemus$ That hich has the Iuality of !ision clearly$ <nd you also see that hich has the Iuality of !isionN he said$ A8ote@ the ambiguity of AGree"B, Pthings !isible and able to see,P AGree"B, Pthe spea"ing of the silent,P the silent denoting either the spea"er or the

subject of the speech, cannot be perfectly rendered in English$ Compare <ristot$ ,oph$ Elenchi APostePs translationB@EE P7f ambiguous propositions the follo ing are instances@EE P0 hope that you the enemy may slay$ P%hom one "no s, he "no s$ Either the person "no ing or the person "no n is here affirmed to "no $ P%hat one sees, that one sees@ one sees a pillar@ ergo, that one pillar sees$ P%hat you <)E holding, that you are@ you are holding a stone@ ergo, a stone you are$ P0s a spea"ing of the silent possibleN JThe silentJ denotes either the spea"er are the subject of speech$ PThere are three "inds of ambiguity of term or proposition$ The first is hen there is an eIual linguistic propriety in se!eral interpretationsQ the second hen one is improper but customaryQ the third hen the ambiguity arises in the combination of elements that are in themsel!es unambiguous, as in J"no ing letters$J JSno ingJ and JlettersJ are perhaps separately unambiguous, but in combination may imply either that the letters are "no n, or that they themsel!es ha!e "no ledge$ ,uch are the modes in hich propositions and terms may be ambiguous$P Oes, 0 do$ Then do you see our garmentsN Oes$ Then our garments ha!e the Iuality of !ision$ They can see to any extent, said Ctesippus$

%hat can they seeN 8othingQ but you, my s eet man, may perhaps imagine that they do not seeQ and certainly, Euthydemus, you do seem to me to ha!e been caught napping hen you ere not asleep, and that if it be possible to spea" and say nothingEEyou are doing so$ <nd may there not be a silence of the spea"erN said &ionysodorus$ 0mpossible, said Ctesippus$ 7r a spea"ing of the silentN That is still more impossible, he said$ *ut hen you spea" of stones, ood, iron bars, do you not spea" of the silentN 8ot hen 0 pass a smithyQ for then the iron bars ma"e a tremendous noise and outcry if they are touched@ so that here your isdom is strangely mista"enQ please, ho e!er, to tell me ho you can be silent hen spea"ing A0 thought that Ctesippus as put upon his mettle because Cleinias as presentB$ %hen you are silent, said Euthydemus, is there not a silence of all thingsN Oes, he said$ *ut if spea"ing things are included in all things, then the spea"ing are silent$ %hat, said CtesippusQ then all things are not silentN Certainly not, said Euthydemus$ Then, my good friend, do they all spea"N OesQ those hich spea"$ 8ay, said Ctesippus, but the Iuestion hich 0 as" is hether all things are

silent or spea"N 8either and both, said &ionysodorus, Iuic"ly interposingQ 0 am sure that you ill be PnonEplussedP at that ans er$ +ere Ctesippus, as his manner as, burst into a roar of laughterQ he said, That brother of yours, Euthydemus, has got into a dilemmaQ all is o!er ith him$ This delighted Cleinias, hose laughter made Ctesippus ten times as uproariousQ but 0 cannot help thin"ing that the rogue must ha!e pic"ed up this ans er from themQ for there has been no isdom li"e theirs in our time$ %hy do you laugh, Cleinias, 0 said, at such solemn and beautiful thingsN %hy, ,ocrates, said &ionysodorus, did you e!er see a beautiful thingN Oes, &ionysodorus, 0 replied, 0 ha!e seen many$ %ere they other than the beautiful, or the same as the beautifulN 8o 0 as in a great Iuandary at ha!ing to ans er this Iuestion, and 0 thought that 0 as rightly ser!ed for ha!ing opened my mouth at all@ 0 said ho e!er, They are not the same as absolute beauty, but they ha!e beauty present ith each of them$ <nd are you an ox because an ox is present ith you, or are you &ionysodorus, because &ionysodorus is present ith youN God forbid, 0 replied$ *ut ho , he said, by reason of one thing being present ith another, ill one thing be anotherN 0s that your difficultyN 0 said$ 'or 0 as beginning to imitate their s"ill, on hich my heart as set$ 7f course, he replied, 0 and all the orld are in a difficulty about the nonEexistent$ %hat do you mean, &ionysodorusN 0 said$ 0s not the honourable honourable and the base baseN

That, he said, is as 0 please$ <nd do you pleaseN Oes, he said$ <nd you ill admit that the same is the same, and the other otherQ for surely the other is not the sameQ 0 should imagine that e!en a child ill hardly deny the other to be other$ *ut 0 thin", &ionysodorus, that you must ha!e intentionally missed the last IuestionQ for in general you and your brother seem to me to be good or"men in your o n department, and to do the dialecticianPs business excellently ell$ %hat, said he, is the business of a good or"manN tell me, in the first place, hose business is hammeringN The smithPs$ <nd hose the ma"ing of potsN The potterPs$ <nd ho has to "ill and s"in and mince and boil and roastN The coo", 0 said$ <nd if a man does his business he does rightlyN Certainly$ <nd the business of the coo" is to cut up and s"inQ you ha!e admitted thatN Oes, 0 ha!e admitted that, but you must not be too hard upon me$ Then if some one ere to "ill, mince, boil, roast the coo", he ould do his business, and if he ere to hammer the smith, and ma"e a pot of the potter, he ould do their business$

Poseidon, 0 said, this is the cro n of isdomQ can 0 e!er hope to ha!e such isdom of my o nN <nd ould you be able, ,ocrates, to recogni6e this isdom hen it has become your o nN Certainly, 0 said, if you ill allo me$ %hat, he said, do you thin" that you "no hat is your o nN

Oes, 0 do, subject to your correctionQ for you are the bottom, and Euthydemus is the top, of all my isdom$ 0s not that hich you ould deem your o n, he said, that hich you ha!e in your o n po er, and hich you are able to use as you ould desire, for example, an ox or a sheepEE ould you not thin" that hich you could sell and gi!e and sacrifice to any god hom you pleased, to be your o n, and that hich you could not gi!e or sell or sacrifice you ould thin" not to be in your o n po erN Oes, 0 said Afor 0 as certain that something good ould come out of the Iuestions, hich 0 as impatient to hearBQ yes, such things, and such things only are mine$ Oes, he said, and you ould mean by animals li!ing beingsN Oes, 0 said$ Oou agree then, that those animals only are yours ith hich you ha!e the po er to do all these things hich 0 as just namingN 0 agree$ Then, after a pause, in hich he seemed to be lost in the contemplation of something great, he said@ Tell me, ,ocrates, ha!e you an ancestral WeusN +ere, anticipating the final mo!e, li"e a person caught in a net, ho gi!es a desperate t ist that he may get a ay, 0 said@ 8o, &ionysodorus, 0 ha!e not$ %hat a miserable man you must be then, he saidQ you are not an <thenian at

all if you ha!e no ancestral gods or temples, or any other mar" of gentility$ 8ay, &ionysodorus, 0 said, do not be roughQ good ords, if you pleaseQ in the ay of religion 0 ha!e altars and temples, domestic and ancestral, and all that other <thenians ha!e$ <nd ha!e not other <thenians, he said, an ancestral WeusN That name, 0 said, is not to be found among the 0onians, hether colonists or citi6ens of <thensQ an ancestral <pollo there is, ho is the father of 0on, and a family Weus, and a Weus guardian of the phratry, and an <thene guardian of the phratry$ *ut the name of ancestral Weus is un"no n to us$ 8o matter, said &ionysodorus, for you admit that you ha!e <pollo, Weus, and <thene$ Certainly, 0 said$ <nd they are your gods, he said$ Oes, 0 said, my lords and ancestors$ <t any rate they are yours, he said, did you not admit thatN 0 did, 0 saidQ hat is going to happen to meN <nd are not these gods animalsN for you admit that all things hich ha!e life are animalsQ and ha!e not these gods lifeN They ha!e life, 0 said$ Then are they not animalsN They are animals, 0 said$ <nd you admitted that of animals those are yours hich you could gi!e a ay or sell or offer in sacrifice, as you pleasedN

0 did admit that, Euthydemus, and 0 ha!e no ay of escape$ %ell then, said he, if you admit that Weus and the other gods are yours, can you sell them or gi!e them a ay or do hat you ill ith them, as you ould ith other animalsN <t this 0 as Iuite struc" dumb, Crito, and lay prostrate$ Ctesippus came to the rescue$ *ra!o, +eracles, bra!e ords, said he$ *ra!o +eracles, or is +eracles a *ra!oN said &ionysodorus$ Poseidon, said Ctesippus, hat a ful distinctions$ 0 ill ha!e no more of themQ the pair are in!incible$ Then, my dear Crito, there as uni!ersal applause of the spea"ers and their ords, and hat ith laughing and clapping of hands and rejoicings the t o men ere Iuite o!erpo eredQ for hitherto their partisans only had cheered at each successi!e hit, but no the hole company shouted ith delight until the columns of the ;yceum returned the sound, seeming to sympathi6e in their joy$ To such a pitch as 0 affected myself, that 0 made a speech, in hich 0 ac"no ledged that 0 had ne!er seen the li"e of their isdomQ 0 as their de!oted ser!ant, and fell to praising and admiring of them$ %hat mar!ellous dexterity of it, 0 said, enabled you to acIuire this great perfection in such a short timeN There is much, indeed, to admire in your ords, Euthydemus and &ionysodorus, but there is nothing that 0 admire more than your magnanimous disregard of any opinionEE hether of the many, or of the gra!e and re!erend seigniorsEEyou regard only those ho are li"e yoursel!es$ <nd 0 do !erily belie!e that there are fe ho are li"e you, and ho ould appro!e of such argumentsQ the majority of man"ind are so ignorant of their !alue, that they ould be more ashamed of employing them in the refutation of others than of being refuted by them$ 0 must further express my appro!al of your "ind and publicEspirited denial of all differences, hether of good and e!il, hite or blac", or any otherQ the result of hich is that, as you say, e!ery mouth is se n up, not excepting your o n, hich graciously follo s the example of othersQ and thus all

ground of offence is ta"en a ay$ *ut hat appears to me to be more than all is, that this art and in!ention of yours has been so admirably contri!ed by you, that in a !ery short time it can be imparted to any one$ 0 obser!ed that Ctesippus learned to imitate you in no time$ 8o this Iuic"ness of attainment is an excellent thingQ but at the same time 0 ould ad!ise you not to ha!e any more public entertainmentsQ there is a danger that men may under!alue an art hich they ha!e so easy an opportunity of acIuiringQ the exhibition ould be best of all, if the discussion ere confined to your t o sel!esQ but if there must be an audience, let him only be present ho is illing to pay a handsome feeQEEyou should be careful of thisQEEand if you are ise, you ill also bid your disciples discourse ith no man but you and themsel!es$ 'or only hat is rare is !aluableQ and P ater,P hich, as Pindar says, is the Pbest of all things,P is also the cheapest$ <nd no 0 ha!e only to reIuest that you ill recei!e Cleinias and me among your pupils$ ,uch as the discussion, CritoQ and after a fe more ords had passed bet een us e ent a ay$ 0 hope that you ill come to them ith me, since they say that they are able to teach any one ho ill gi!e them moneyQ no age or ant of capacity is an impediment$ <nd 0 must repeat one thing hich they said, for your especial benefit,EEthat the learning of their art did not at all interfere ith the business of moneyEma"ing$ C)0T7@ Truly, ,ocrates, though 0 am curious and ready to learn, yet 0 fear that 0 am not li"eEminded ith Euthydemus, but one of the other sort, ho, as you ere saying, ould rather be refuted by such arguments than use them in refutation of others$ <nd though 0 may appear ridiculous in !enturing to ad!ise you, 0 thin" that you may as ell hear hat as said to me by a man of !ery considerable pretensionsEEhe as a professor of legal oratoryEE ho came a ay from you hile 0 as al"ing up and do n$ PCrito,P said he to me, Pare you gi!ing no attention to these ise menNP P8o, indeed,P 0 said to himQ P0 could not get ithin hearing of themEEthere as such a cro d$P POou ould ha!e heard something orth hearing if you had$P P%hat as thatNP 0 said$ POou ould ha!e heard the greatest masters of the art of rhetoric discoursing$P P<nd hat did you thin" of themNP 0 said$ P%hat did 0 thin" of themNP he said@EEPtheirs as the sort of discourse hich anybody might hear from men ho ere playing the fool, and ma"ing much ado about nothing$P That as the expression hich he used$ P,urely,P 0 said,

Pphilosophy is a charming thing$P PCharming#P he saidQ P hat simplicity# philosophy is noughtQ and 0 thin" that if you had been present you ould ha!e been ashamed of your friendEEhis conduct as so !ery strange in placing himself at the mercy of men ho care not hat they say, and fasten upon e!ery ord$ <nd these, as 0 as telling you, are supposed to be the most eminent professors of their time$ *ut the truth is, Crito, that the study itself and the men themsel!es are utterly mean and ridiculous$P 8o censure of the pursuit, ,ocrates, hether coming from him or from others, appears to me to be undeser!edQ but as to the impropriety of holding a public discussion ith such men, there, 0 confess that, in my opinion, he as in the right$ ,7C)<TE,@ 7 Crito, they are mar!ellous menQ but hat as 0 going to sayN 'irst of all let me "no QEE%hat manner of man as he ho came up to you and censured philosophyQ as he an orator ho himself practises in the courts, or an instructor of orators, ho ma"es the speeches ith hich they do battleN C)0T7@ +e as certainly not an orator, and 0 doubt hether he had e!er been into courtQ but they say that he "no s the business, and is a cle!er man, and composes onderful speeches$ ,7C)<TE,@ 8o 0 understand, CritoQ he is one of an amphibious class, hom 0 as on the point of mentioningEEone of those hom Prodicus describes as on the borderEground bet een philosophers and statesmenEEthey thin" that they are the isest of all men, and that they are generally esteemed the isestQ nothing but the ri!alry of the philosophers stands in their ayQ and they are of the opinion that if they can pro!e the philosophers to be good for nothing, no one ill dispute their title to the palm of isdom, for that they are themsel!es really the isest, although they are apt to be mauled by Euthydemus and his friends, hen they get hold of them in con!ersation$ This opinion hich they entertain of their o n isdom is !ery naturalQ for they ha!e a certain amount of philosophy, and a certain amount of political isdomQ there is reason in hat they say, for they argue that they ha!e just enough of both, and so they "eep out of the ay of all ris"s and conflicts and reap the fruits of their isdom$

C)0T7@ %hat do you say of them, ,ocratesN There is certainly something specious in that notion of theirs$ ,7C)<TE,@ Oes, Crito, there is more speciousness than truthQ they cannot be made to understand the nature of intermediates$ 'or all persons or things, hich are intermediate bet een t o other things, and participate in both of themEEif one of these t o things is good and the other e!il, are better than the one and orse than the otherQ but if they are in a mean bet een t o good things hich do not tend to the same end, they fall short of either of their component elements in the attainment of their ends$ 7nly in the case hen the t o component elements hich do not tend to the same end are e!il is the participant better than either$ 8o , if philosophy and political action are both good, but tend to different ends, and they participate in both, and are in a mean bet een them, then they are tal"ing nonsense, for they are orse than eitherQ or, if the one be good and the other e!il, they are better than the one and orse than the otherQ only on the supposition that they are both e!il could there be any truth in hat they say$ 0 do not thin" that they ill admit that their t o pursuits are either holly or partly e!ilQ but the truth is, that these philosopherE politicians ho aim at both fall short of both in the attainment of their respecti!e ends, and are really third, although they ould li"e to stand first$ There is no need, ho e!er, to be angry at this ambition of theirsEE hich may be forgi!enQ for e!ery man ought to be lo!ed ho says and manfully pursues and or"s out anything hich is at all li"e isdom@ at the same time e shall do ell to see them as they really are$ C)0T7@ 0 ha!e often told you, ,ocrates, that 0 am in a constant difficulty about my t o sons$ %hat am 0 to do ith themN There is no hurry about the younger one, ho is only a childQ but the other, Critobulus, is getting on, and needs some one ho ill impro!e him$ 0 cannot help thin"ing, hen 0 hear you tal", that there is a sort of madness in many of our anxieties about our children@EEin the first place, about marrying a ife of good family to be the mother of them, and then about heaping up money for themEE and yet ta"ing no care about their education$ *ut then again, hen 0 contemplate any of those ho pretend to educate others, 0 am ama6ed$ To me, if 0 am to confess the truth, they all seem to be such outrageous beings@ so that 0 do not "no ho 0 can ad!ise the youth to study philosophy$

,7C)<TE,@ &ear Crito, do you not "no that in e!ery profession the inferior sort are numerous and good for nothing, and the good are fe and beyond all price@ for example, are not gymnastic and rhetoric and moneyE ma"ing and the art of the general, noble artsN C)0T7@ Certainly they are, in my judgment$ ,7C)<TE,@ %ell, and do you not see that in each of these arts the many are ridiculous performersN C)0T7@ Oes, indeed, that is !ery true$ ,7C)<TE,@ <nd ill you on this account shun all these pursuits yourself and refuse to allo them to your sonN C)0T7@ That ould not be reasonable, ,ocrates$ ,7C)<TE,@ &o you then be reasonable, Crito, and do not mind hether the teachers of philosophy are good or bad, but thin" only of philosophy herself$ Try and examine her ell and truly, and if she be e!il see" to turn a ay all men from her, and not your sons onlyQ but if she be hat 0 belie!e that she is, then follo her and ser!e her, you and your house, as the saying is, and be of good cheer$

End of this Project Gutenberg Etext of Euthydemus, by Plato