Guardian of Language: An Interview with Hlne Cixous (March 1 #athleen $%Grad& ('ranslated (& )ric *renowit+" ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

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-& arrange.ent with #athleen $%Grad&/ 0oice of the 1huttle is re2u(lishing this interview fro. 3o.en%s education des fe..es 14 (5o6 78 3inter 1 !,9": !,1:6 (3edf 2er.ission 2olic&" Acco.2an&ing the interview are excer2ts fro. the original ;rench6 #athleen $%Grad& (e,.ail" is a doctoral candidate at 'rinit& College/ the <niversit& of Ca.(ridge/ where she is wor=ing on the linguistic 2hiloso2h& of >ulia #risteva (s2ecificall& .eta2hor/ .eton&.& and the su(?ect of religious language"6 Her recent 2u(lications include @>ulia #risteva: A -i(liogra2h& of *ri.ar& and 1econdar& 1ources in ;rench and )nglish@ (-owling Green/ $hio: *hiloso2h& Aocu.entation Center/ 1 9" and @'he *un or the )ucharistB: >ulia #risteva and <.(erto )co on the Consu..ate Model for the Meta2horic *rocess/@ Literature and 'heolog& (>anuar& 1 9"6 Her interviews with Cosi -raidotti and Linda Hutcheon are online6 ('his 2age .ounted 11D1ED 98 last revised 9D49D E" ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Introducing the wor= of Hlne Cixous is not an eas& tas=8 it involves descri(ing several lifeti.es of achieve.ent6F1G I could descri(e the earl& Cixous who earned her doctorate for a thesis on the literature of >a.es >o&ce and was soon after awarded the 2restigious a22oint.ent at the <niversit& of *aris 0III as Chair for the de2art.ent of )nglish literature6 'his Cixous has written a nu.(er of articles and (oo=s in (oth literar& criticis. and 2hiloso2h&6 $r I could descri(e the Cixous who discovered the world of creative writing/ where she initiated a =ind of fictional auto(iogra2hical st&le that has ins2ired writers/ 2hiloso2hers/ and literar& critics ali=e6 'hen there is Cixous the 2la&wright6 Her nu.erous 2la&s/ screen2la&s/ and even an o2era li(retto have (een (oth 2o2ularl& and criticall& acclai.ed6 -ut 2erha2s the 2ersonage that is (est =nown internationall& is Cixous the fe.inist6 In 1 97 she created the Centre d%)tudes ;.inines at the <niversit& of *aris 0III which offered the first doctoral 2rogra. in wo.en%s studies in )uro2e6 'his Cixous cele(rates a theor& of criture f.inine ,, an ethical writing st&le (which wo.en in 2articular can access" that is a(le/ through a 2honetic inscri2tion of the fe.inine (od&/ its 2ulsions and flows/ to o2en u2 and e.(race the difference of the other6 Co.(ined/ Cixous the literar& critic/ 2hiloso2her/ 2la&wright/ and fe.inist has 2roduced well over 7: (oo=s and .ore than 1:: articles6 'his is not the acco.2lish.ent of a lifeti.e/ (ut the cul.ination of several lifeti.es/ each united and infused (& the solitar& voice of a 2oet6 As Cixous states herself/ @I give .&self a 2oet%s right/ otherwise I would not dare to s2ea=6@F4G

In the 1 9:s/ through (oth fiction and theor&/ &ou constructed a Aerridean ins2ired conce2t of criture f.inine6 'exts li=e 'he 5ewl& -orn 3o.an with Catherine Cl.ent (1 9H" and @'he Laugh of the Medusa@ (1 9!" develo2 a theor& of writing (ased on the li(idinal econo.& of the fe.inine and call for a re,exa.ination of (isexualit&6 'he su(seIuent @)xtre.e ;idelit&@ (1 EE" continued to aug.ent and clarif& this conce2t (& locating sexual difference within a cultural do.ain6 How does this theor& ins2ire &our own 2hiloso2hico,2oetic textsB Aoes it 2rovide an ethical and 2olitical fra.ewor= in addition to its aesthetic di.ensionsB ;or .e/ theor& does not co.e (efore/ to ins2ire/ it does not 2recede/ does not dictate/ (ut rather it is a conseIuence of .& text/ which is at its origin 2hiloso2hico,2oetical/ and it is a conseIuence in the for. of co.2ro.ise or urgent necessit&6 )ach ti.e I have written or that I write a so, called @theoretical@ text ,, in Iuotations (ecause in realit& .& theoretical texts are also carried off (& a 2oetic rh&th. ,, it has (een to res2ond to a .o.ent of tension in cultural current events/ where the a.(ient state of discourse ,, acade.ic discourse/ for exa.2le/ or ?ournalistic or 2olitical discourse ,, has 2ushed .e to go (ac= over things/ to sto2 .& ?ourne& and ta=e the ti.e to e.2hasi+e/ to dis2la& in a didactic .anner the thin=ing .ove.ent which for .e was indissocia(le fro. .& 2oetic .ove.ent/ (ut which see.ed to .e to (e entirel& .isunderstood/ forgotten or re2ressed indeed (& the to2ical scene6 1o all that is called @theoretical@ in .& wor= is in realit& si.2l& a =ind of halt in the .ove.ent that I execute in order to underline in a (road wa& what I have written or what has (een 2ossi(le to read for a long ti.e in .& fictional texts6 5ever has a theor& ins2ired .& 2oetic texts6 It is .& 2oetic text that sits down fro. ti.e to ti.e on a (ench or else at a caf ta(le ,, that%s what I a. in the 2rocess of doing at this .o.ent (& the wa& ,, to .a=e itself heard in univocal/ .ore i..ediatel& audi(le ter.s6 In other words/ it is alwa&s a last resort for .e6 1o no/ it does not 2rovide an additional ethico,2olitical structure8 it is the concession a 2oet .a=es in acce2ting 2edagogic res2onsi(ilit&6 'hough &ou 2raise the wor=s of Colette/ Auras/ Genet/ >o&ce and 1ha=es2eare throughout .uch of &our wor=/ it is the voice of Clarice Lis2ector which 2er.eates &our fictional texts6 'o Live the $range (1 9 "/ @)xtre.e ;idelit&@ (1 EE"/ Ceading 3ith Clarice Lis2ector (1 :" and 'hree 1te2s on the Ladder of 3riting (1 J" constitute an honourar& identification and exchange with the texts of Lis2ector6 In what wa& do her words sti.ulate the .&thical Iualit& that infuses &our writingB Aoes Lis2ector in an& wa& .otivate the incessant return to divinit& 2erce2ti(le in &our fictionB ;irst/ it is true that Clarice Lis2ector has an a(solutel& exce2tional 2lace in .& s2ace of references/ and that she is uniIue for .e6 I co.2are her with no one6 3ith no one a.ong our conte.2oraries6 Another 2erson also has a uniIue and exce2tional 2lace/ it is >acIues Aerrida/ and in a certain wa&/ I could sa& ,, it is a si.2lification ,, that each of the. occu2ies a sort of ideal 2lace of writing for .e/ ta=ing sexual difference into account/ he occu2&ing the s2ace of a certain .asculinit& ca2a(le of fe.ininit&/ and she occu2&ing the s2ace of a fe.ininit& ca2a(le of .asculinit&6 As for the relation I have with her: I (egan to read her in 1 99/ and I onl& reall& (egan to =now her text/ to (e a(le to res2ond to it/ two &ears later8 let us sa& that I wor=ed for two &ears to reall& understand her thought6 I (egan 2u(lishing in 1 !98 in 1 99/ I had alread& written twelve or

thirteen (oo=s of fiction/ four or five volu.es of theoretical essa&s/ which continue to (e 2oints of reference li=e 'he 5ewl& -orn 3o.an/ *rno.s de 2ersonne/ several 2la&s6 'hat is the 2erson who encountered Clarice Lis2ector/ which is to sa& so.eone who had a rather long literar&/ 2oetic and 2olitical ex2erience/ and I had the good fortune to recogni+e in Clarice Lis2ector a co.2anion and a conte.2orar& wo.an6 'he 2resence in .& texts of what &ou call the @.&thical Iualit&@ or else of inscri2tions of a s&ste. of allusions to God/ in Iuotes/ is originar& for .e6 M& first collection of short stories/ fro. 1 !9/ was called *rno.s de Aieu F;orena.es of GodG6 I have alwa&s 2la&ed with God6 ;or .e/ the signifier Aieu/ as I have alwa&s said/ is the s&non&. of what goes (e&ond us/ of our own 2ro?ection toward the future/ toward infinit&6 3hat I .ust sa& also is that clearl&/ li=e all writers who invo=e Aieu the word and the word Aieu in their texts/ I a. religiousl& atheistic/ (ut literaril& deistic/ that%s it6 <lti.atel&/ I thin= that no one can write without the aid of God/ (ut what is it/ GodB 3ithout the aid of writing/ God,as, 3riting6 In addition to (eing an acclai.ed novelist and theorist/ &ou are also a successful 2la&wright6 @'he 'erri(le -ut <nfinished 1tor& of 5orodo. 1ihanou= #ing of Ca.(odia@ (1 EH" and @Indiada or the India of 'heir Area.s@ (1 E9" have (een attended (& large audiences in ;rance6 Kour 2la&s indicate a discerni(le shift in &our writing/ fro. intros2ective 2rosod& to an exa.ination of historical characters and events6 In &our essa&/ @'he *lace of Cri.e/ 'he *lace of ;orgiveness@ (1 E9" &ou indicate that this shift is an ethical one6 3hat su(?ective force can theatrical 2erfor.ance 2rovide that a 2rose text cannotB And in what wa& does this a.2lif& &our earlier conce2tsB 'here is no decisive @shift@ (etween theatre and fiction/ in an& case relative to an engage.ent/ so.ething that is on the order of a res2onsi(ilit& of writing6 3hat ha22ens with theatre is what theatre allows an author and which the fictional text does not allow/ that is to sa& a direct relation with the audience/ and thus clearl& an intensit&/ a greater/ .ore i..ediate densit& of the ethico, 2olitical .essage6 'hat is clearl& the difference in @res2onsi(ilit&@ (etween the theatre and the fictional text: it%s .ore i..ediate6 It is a staging or a 2utting on the stage/ it%s the effect of the .ise en scne6 I ought to sa&/ once and for all/ a certain nu.(er of (analities or truis.s: there was an issue of l%$(servateur/ Iuite recentl&/ with a long interview of >acIues Aerrida entitled @Kes/ .& texts are 2olitical/@ which is to sa& that the ?ournalistic attitude or su2erficial reading o(lige hi. to re2eat so.ething that is a(solutel& o(vious/ it%s that his 2hiloso2hical writing is a writing that is alwa&s 2olitical/ that alwa&s has 2olitical effects ,, and it is the sa.e thing for .e6 It%s as if a certain audience onl& used the ter. @2olitical@ for that which has as its o(?ect or as its centre a reference to historico,2olitical events 2ro2erl& s2ea=ing/ events that could find a 2lace 2recisel& in the news2a2ers and the histor& (oo=s6 Ket the 2olitical ,, this is a trivialit&/ I a. asha.ed to have to sa& it ,, does not ste. si.2l& fro. the 2olitical scene/ fro. the 2olitical events re2orted (& the .edia8 it (egins o(viousl& (& the discourse of the s2ea=ing su(?ect on hi., or herself/ which is to sa& that all that .a=es the 2olitical scene ,, relations of 2ower/ of o22ression/ enslaving/ ex2loitation ,, all of this (egins within .e: first of all in the fa.il& and in the interior of .&self6 '&rants/ des2ots/ dictators/ ca2italis./ all that for.s the visi(le 2olitical s2ace for us is onl& the

visi(le and theatrical/ 2hotogra2ha(le 2ro?ection of the 1elf,with,against,the,other6 I suggest we add the 2re2osition @withagainst@ to the )nglish language6 'he eIuivalent in ;rench (eing: @contre6@ I cannot even i.agine how one could thin= otherwise6 1o when I write texts of fiction/ and when in these texts of fiction I deal with 2ro(le.atics either that touch on the definition of the su(?ect/ or a hu.an su(?ect/ or when I 2ut fa.il& scenes/ Iuestions of exile/ into .eta2hor and into 2oetic narrative ,, .& first narrative which was called Aedans reads in fact as an o(liIue ethico,2olitical treatise on the conscious and unconscious situation in Algeria (etween the %7:s and the %!:s ,, one is not o(liged to read it in that wa&/ (ut that is what it is6 'here is alwa&s a 2olitical reflexion and engage.ent running through it6 It is thus si.2l& a different for. of the sa.e funda.ental scene that is the scene in which 1ha=es2eare/ or #af=a/ 2ortra& their characters6 It has exactl& the sa.e di.ension6 $ne cannot divide/ for exa.2le/ hu.an destin& (etween the intros2ective/ which would (e non,2olitical/ and then a sort of exterior which would (e 2olitical6 It .a=es no sense/ no .ore than if one were to consider the Gree= tragedians6 A hu.an su(?ect has a destin& in so far as it is a hu.an (eing citi+en6 It cannot (e se2arated6 In this wa& I could sa& that there is not a single one of .& fictional texts that does not resonate with echoes of world histor&6 I was (orn 2olitical/ in a sense/ and it was even for 2olitical reasons that I (egan to write 2oetr& as a res2onse to the 2olitical traged&6 And in the sa.e wa&/ as I have ver& often said/ there is not onl& the Iuestion of the re2resentation or the inscri2tion of an ethico,2olitical 2ro(le.atic/ there is also the Iuestion of action6 I =now that here too it is thought that action ,, that is/ what is called action ,, is an action that ought to (e visi(le in the field/ in the field of war or in the field of the 2olitical scene/ 2ro2erl& s2ea=ing/ of the *arlia.ent/ etc6 And I a. unco.forta(le sa&ing that literar& actions are actions that have a force of transfor.ation/ a force of 2olitical affir.ation/ and a revolutionar& force that no 2erson who has (een in a situation of distress has ever denied/ Iuite to the contrar&6 'he Algerian exiles/ the Algerian intellectuals who are exiled/ that is who are threatened with death/ those who survive the .assacres/ are the 2roof: the first ones to (e =illed and .assacred are those who .a=e gestures of writing6 Another 2roof: a.ong the./ I have .an& friends for who. it is essential to co.e into a text to text relation or co..unication with 2eo2le li=e us6 ;inall&/ and what is .ore/ in ;rance there is a tradition of a relationshi2 (etween the literar& text or the writer and 2u(lic o2inion6 *oets/ novelists/ 2hiloso2hers/ etc6 have alwa&s thought of their gestures of writing as a 2olitical gesture/ and the& have carried it out also in this .anner6 3hen Lola goes fro. the wor= of art to the co.(at for Are&fus/ he ta=es onl& one ste26 And so I a. not going to enu.erate the gestures I .a=e in this do.ain/ (ut the& exist6 And I will add that/ in a .anner that is strictl& s2ecific and reserved to writing/ I thin= ,, I have alwa&s said it/ I a. reaffir.ing it ,, that the writers who are conscious are guardians/ not onl& of the res 2u(lica/ the co..on wealth/ which is onl& one as2ect of their wor=/ (ut a(ove all ,, it is their role/ it is their .ission ,, the& are the guardians of language/ that is to sa& of the richness of language/ of its freedo./ of its strangeness/ strangerness6 Language is a countr& in which scenes co.2ara(le to what is ha22ening/ for exa.2le/ at this .o.ent in ;rance/ in the do.ain of the o2ening or the closing of (orders/ are 2la&ed out in the linguistic and 2oetic .ode6 'here are wa&s of writing ;rench that are wa&s of writing @good@ or 2ro2er ;rench in setting u2 its (orders and defending at all costs ;rench nationalis. and nationalit&6 'here are/ on the contrar&/ wa&s of degra..aticali+ing or of agra..aticali+ing ;rench/ of wor=ing in s&ntax for it to (e an o2en/ rece2tive/ stretcha(le/ tolerant/ intelligent language/ ca2a(le of hearing the voices of the other in its own (od&6 And this is a great revolutionar& tradition of ;rench 2oetr& ,, in this sense I feel

.&self to (e in the lineage of so.eone li=e Ci.(aud ,, a certain (reach of the li.it/ a certain unfurling of language/ a(ove all/ a certain wor= on the signifier and/ of course a necessar& 2olitical attitude6 $ne could well i.agine that 2ower could (e ta=en over (& @good ;rench@ in Acade.ia and the .edia/ and in that situation there would no longer (e freedo. of thought/ Iuite si.2l&6 In 1 97 &ou founded the Centre d%)tudes ;.inines at the <niversit& of *aris 0III6 Cecentl& the govern.ent threatened this/ the onl& acade.ic wo.en%s studies doctoral 2rogra. and resource centre in *aris/ with closure6 3hat events led to the creation of the 2rogra. in the 9:s and what a(out the :s (rought a(out its threatened de.iseB I created the Centre d%Mtudes ;.inines in 1 97 for two reasons6 $ne of the./ which was funda.ental/ was that I was 2rofessor of )nglish Literature/ and I felt I was he..ed in/ since I had (eco.e an acade.ic/ in a definition of which the referent is national6 ;or .e/ a literature cannot (e a literature enclosed within (orders6 'hat is the first thing6 Literature is a transnational countr&6 'he authors we read have alwa&s (een the citi+ens of the other world/ (order,crossers and out,laws6 And the& have alwa&s strangered their own language6 And the second thing is that literature ,, li=e all discourses ,, is in its great .a?orit& .asculine6 And so I was so.eone who taught/ with 2assion (& the wa&/ a restricted literature/ that is to sa& )nglish and .asculine literature6 I%. ver& ha22& to do it/ on the condition that there is not an exclusion6 1o I tried to get out of the enclosure of the unisex/ unilanguage/ etc6/ and I .ade use of a reorgani+ation of the universit& structures/ of the doctoral structures in ;rance/ and of the need/ for ;rench research/ to create new doctorates/ to 2ro2ose a doctorate that had never existed in ;rance/ and which was a 3o.en%s 1tudies6 And in %97 it was acce2ted6 It was a doctorate that was interdisci2linar& and/ of course/ intercultural/ interlinguistic/ etc6/ that =noc=ed down the a(surd 2artitions (etween literature and 2hiloso2h&/ and (etween languages/ and on the other hand/ fro. the .o.ent it sheltered other discourses than strictl& literar& ones/ and when one could also hear a historical voice/ a sociological voice/ a 2s&choanal&tic voice/ etc6/ it allowed .e to introduce the the.e that was dear to .e/ the the.e of sexual difference6 0er& Iuic=l&/ I (egan to wor= with a general the.atic: 'he 2oetics of sexual difference/ which had never ha22ened (efore in ;rance6 -ut it is for exactl& the sa.e reason that this 2rogra..e was threatened with su22ression/ and has ?ust recentl& (een threatened again/ (ecause the new authorit& in research in ;rance/ who dates fro. the -alladur Govern.ent/ as=ed wh& we had an& need for 3o.en%s 1tudies in ;rance when there are no Men%s 1tudies/ there &ou have it/ it%s ver& si.2leN 'his s2ea=s to the ideological (ac=wardness of ;rance6 ;rance is fifteenth in )uro2e with res2ect to all the 2ro(le.atics concerning wo.en/ and fifteenth also with res2ect to the develo2.ent of the eIualit& and the recognition of wo.en in societ&/ eIuall& 2laced with Greece6 And finall&/ Iris Murdoch once wrote that it is @alwa&s significant to as= of an& 2hiloso2her/ what he is afraid of@6 1o I as= &ou/ what is &our greatest fearB And in as=ing this/ I wonder if I a. not su(.itting to &ou the other/ uns2o=en side of &our own recurring Iuestion: @Oue sont,?e Iuand ?e songeB@ I would sa& that I a. so afraid of (eing afraid that I a. not afraid6 5ow clearl&/ if I wanted to sta& in the do.ain of austerit& and hu.ilit&/ I would sa& that/ li=e all hu.an (eings/ I fear seeing the 2eo2le I love die6 -ut I do not thin= this is a great fear/ I thin= that it is (eing hu.an/ it is

living/ that%s all/ it is not a fear6 Living ,, we do not live without fearing the death of the other: I a. alive/ thus I a. contracted with terror at the idea that one of those close to .e could (e =illed/ could suffer6 -ut I cannot sa& that it is what one calls fear6 All the rest/ for .e/ is anger8 I a. angr& at the s2irit of (etra&al that do.inates individuals and societ&6 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, )xcer2ts ;ro. the $riginal ;rench D )xtraits de l%entretien du 96J6 ! ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 5$')1 16 ;or an overview of Cixous%s wor= see the excellent 'he Hlne Cixous Ceader6 1usan 1ellers/ ed6 (London: Coutledge/ 1 7" and Hlne Cixous: Authorshi2/ Auto(iogra2h& and Love (& 1usan 1ellers ($xford: *olit& *ress/ 1 !"6 (-ac= " 46 @)xtre.e ;idelit&/@ in 1usan 1ellers (ed6"/ 3riting Aifferences: Ceadings fro. the 1e.inar of Hlne Cixous (5ew Kor=: 1t6 Martin%s *ress/ 1 EE"6 (-ac= " ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Ce2rinted (& arrange.ent with #athleen $%Grad& fro. 3o.en%s education des fe..es (14/ 7" 3inter 1 !,9: 226 !,1:6 3o.en%s education des fe..es re2rint 2olic&: In the interest of the widest distri(ution and use of infor.ation/ 3edf encourages readers to re2roduce .aterial fro. the .aga+ine for the 2ur2oses of education and learning6 ;or other 2ur2oses of re2roduction/ such as re2rinting .aterial in another 2u(lication/ 2er.ission .ust (e reIuested fro. the Canadian Congress for Learning $22ortunities for 3o.en (cclowPwe(6net" and the author/ #athleen $%Grad& (=o1:::1Pher.es6ca.6ac6u="6 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, H'ML (& Alan Liu6