Supporting Docs in Ventura V Kyle

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

DISTRICT OF MINNESOTA

J esse Ventura a/k/a/ J ames G. J anos,

Plaintiff,

vs.

Taya Kyle, Executor of the Estate of Chris
Kyle (deceased),

Defendant.

Civil No. 12-cv-472 RHK/JJK

DECLARATION OF CLAIRE H.
OUELLETTE IN SUPPORT OF
DEFENDANTS SECOND MOTION
FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT

I, Claire Ouellette, hereby declare as follows:
1. I am a paralegal at Faegre Baker Daniels LLP, which represents Defendant
Chris Kyle (deceased) in the above-captioned case. I make this Declaration upon personal
knowledge and upon review of the firms files and records in this case, including the
exhibits identified below.
2. Attached hereto as Exhibit 1 (under seal) is a true and correct copy of the
entire transcript of the deposition of third-party witness Scott McEwen, taken on J an. 17,
2013.
3. Attached hereto as Exhibit 2 is a true and correct copy of a redacted
transcript of the deposition of third-party witness Scott McEwen, taken on J an. 17, 2013.
4. The following news publications, cited in Defendants Memorandum in
Support of Second Motion for Summary J udgment, were previously filed with the Court:
CASE 0:12-cv-00472-RHK-JJK Document 235 Filed 12/18/13 Page 1 of 8
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a. News article by D. Smith, Aide dismissed article on Ventura and Navy
He says the writers suggestion that the governor may not actually have
been a SEAL is hair-splitting. Star Tribune, Dec. 14, 1999, at 3B (Dkt.
#26-4Ex. D); and
b. Online article by M. Kaste, Battling Seals, Minnesota Public Radio, Dec.
14, 1999, accessed on Aug. 16, 2012, available at
http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/199912/14_katem_seals/
(Dkt. #26-5Ex. E).
5. Attached hereto as Exhibit 3 is a true and correct copy of a news article by
P. Lopez Baden, Ventura defines real hunting as hunting man, Star Tribune, Apr. 5,
2001, at 1B.
R. Whereatt, 57 percent approve of how Ventura is doing his job Thats 14-point drop
from J anuarys near-high record, Star Tribune, Apr. 14, 2001, at 1A.
7. Attached hereto as Exhibit 5 is a true and correct copy of an online article
by B. Salisbury, J esses Dangerous Game, May 8, 2001 (available at
http://cursor.org/venturawatch/dangerous_game.htm) (accessed on Feb. 7, 2013).
D. Smith, Ventura hunting comments prompt SEAL attack, Star Tribune, May 9, 2001,
at 6B.
9. Attached hereto as Exhibit 7 is a true and correct copy of the declaration of
Laura deShazo, dated Oct. 23, 2013, bearing production numbers FBD00000017-19.
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10. At the request of attorney J ohn P. Borger, I obtained copies of publicly
available sources of information pertaining to time of sunset in San Diego, California, on
Oct. 12, 2006. The exhibits indicated below are true and correct copies of those
documents obtained from the indicated sources.
a. Exhibit 8 is an online document titled San Diego, California, Rise and
Set for the Sun for 2006, Pacific Standard Time, from ASTRONOMICAL
APPLICATIONS DEPT., U.S. NAVAL OBSERVATORY, WASHINGTON, DC
20392-5429 (available at
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneYear.php (landing page),
which leads to http://aa.usno.navy.mil/cgi-bin/aa_rstablew.pl (exact
page by selecting year 2006 and location San Diego, California)
(accessed on J an. 28, 2013).
b. Exhibit 9 is an online document titled Daylight Time, from
ASTRONOMICAL APPLICATIONS DEPT., U.S. NAVAL OBSERVATORY,
WASHINGTON, DC 20392-5429 (available at
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/daylight_time.php (, accessed on J an.
24, 2013).
c. Exhibit 10 is a daily feature titled Weather: Cosmos, from THE SAN
DIEGO UNION-TRIBUNE, Oct. 12, 2006, at D6.
11. The foregoing sources establish the time of sunset in San Diego, California,
on Oct. 12, 2006, as occurring at approximately 6:20 p.m. Pacific Daylight Savings
Time.
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12. Attached hereto as Exhibit 11 is a true and correct copy of the supplemental
declaration of Kevin Lacz, dated Oct. 5, 2013, bearing production numbers
FBD00000013-16.
13. Attached hereto as Exhibit 12 is a true and correct copy of the declaration
of Rosemary deShazo, dated Dec. 13, 2013, bearing production numbers
FBD00000030-31.
14. Attached hereto are true and correct copies of the following non-
confidential exhibits marked at the deposition of Plaintiff Gov. J esse Ventura, taken
on Nov. 12, 2012: DEP. EX 41; DEP. EX. 49; DEP. EX. 50; DEP. EX. 54; DEP. EX.
55; DEP. EX. 56; DEP. EX. 72; DEP. EX. 75.
15. The following deposition exhibits, cited in Defendants Memorandum in
Support of Second Motion for Summary J udgment, were previously filed with the
Court: DEP. EX-2 (Dkt. #97-1Ex. I); DEP. EX-94 (Dkt. #129-13); DEP. EX-95
(Dkt. #129-14); DEP. EX-96 (Dkt. #129-15); DEP. EX-142 (Dkt. #129-33).
16. Defendants Memorandum in Support of Second Motion for Summary
J udgment cites numerous declarations, deposition transcripts, and other documents
that previously were filed with the Court. To reduce duplicative filings, Defendant is
not re-filing those materials in connection with this motion. For the convenience of
the Court, an alphabetical list of those prior filings with docket numbers is provided
below:
a. Anderson Supplemental Affidavit dated Dec. 12, 2012 (Dkt. #121)
b. Borger Declaration dated Aug. 28, 2012 (Dkt. #25)
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c. Borger Declaration dated J an. 4, 2013 (Dkt. #129)
d. Guy Budinscak
i. Declaration dated Mar. 12, 2012 (Dkt. #28)
ii. Transcript of deposition taken Nov. 15, 2012 (Dkt. #114-10)
e. BUD/S Class 258 graduation record, obtained pursuant to Navy FOIA
request, Bates numbered NAVY_FOIA0001-4 (Dkt. #97-1Ex. M)
f. Charlene DeWitt
i. Affidavit dated Sept. 18, 2012 (Dkt. #40)
g. Bill DeWitt
i. Affidavit dated Sept. 18, 2012 (Dkt #41)
h. J ames DeFelice
i. Complete (sealed) transcript of deposition taken Nov. 30, 2012 (Dkt.
#129-3)
i. J eremiah Dinnell
ii. Transcript of deposition taken Oct. 4, 2012 (Dkt. #114-4)
j. Bob Gassoff
i. Declaration dated Apr. 16, 2012 (Dkt. #30)
ii. Transcript of deposition taken Sept. 21, 2012 (Dkt. #114-1)
k. Dr. Michael H. Gotchey
i. Affidavit dated Sept. 17, 2012 (Dkt. #46)
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l. Debbie J ob
m. J ohn J ones
i. Transcript of deposition taken Nov. 8, 2012 (Dkt. #114-9)
n. J ohn Kelly
ii. Transcript of deposition taken Nov. 7, 2012(Dkt. #114-8)
o. Chris Kyle:
i. The Book (Dkt. #24-2)
ii. Kyle Declaration dated Aug. 27, 2012 (Dkt. #27)
iii. Kyle Declaration dated Oct. 23, 2012 (Dkt. #69)
iv. Kyles Responses to Plaintiffs Interrogatories (Dkt. #63-1Ex. B)
v. Complete (sealed) transcript of deposition taken Nov. 28, 2012 (Dkt.
#129-1)
1. Errata sheet for deposition (Dkt. #131-1)
2. Addendum to errata sheet for deposition (Dkt. #133-2)
p. Taya Kyle
i. Complete (sealed) transcript of deposition taken Sept. 11, 2013 (Dkt
#229-1)
q. Ivan Krusic
i. Transcript of deposition taken Oct. 2, 2012 (Dkt. #114-2)
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r. Kevin Lacz
i. Declaration dated Feb. 29, 2012 (Dkt. #33)
ii. Transcript of deposition taken Nov. 2, 2012 (Dkt. #114-7)
s. Debbie Lee
t. Opie & Anthony J an. 4, 2012 interview with Chris Kyle (disk of entire
program) (Dkt. #117-1)
u. OReilly Factor J an. 5, 2012 interview with Chris Kyle (disk of entire
program) (Dkt. #117-2)
v. Andrew Paul
i. Declaration dated Apr. 16, 2012 (Dkt. #35)
w. Transcript of deposition taken Oct. 3, 2012 (Dkt. #114-3) J esse Ventura:
i. Complaint with Exs. A-E (Dkt. #1-1)
ii. Admissions (Dkt. #78-2)
iii. Plaintiffs Interrogatories to Defendant (Dkt. #63-1Ex. A)
iv. Plaintiffs Responses to Defendants Interrogatories and Requests
for Production dated J une 12, 2012 (Dkt. #20-2)
v. Plaintiffs Second Supplemental Answers to Interrogatories dated
Sept. 13, 2012 (Dkt. #97-1Ex. K)
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vi. Plaintiffs Third Supplemental Answers to Interrogatories dated
Nov. 20, 2012 (Dkt. #97-2Ex. O)
vii. Complete (sealed) transcript of deposition taken Nov. 12, 2012 (Dkt.
#114-15)
viii. Plaintiffs Memorandum In Support of Motion to Amend to Claim
Punitive Damages dated Nov. 30, 2012 (Dkt. #102)
x. Ventura v. Kyle, Civ. No. 12-472 (RHK/AJ B), Memorandum Opinion and
Order dated Dec. 20, 2012 (Dkt. #125)

I declare under penalty of perjury that the foregoing is true and correct to the best
of my knowledge and belief.

Dated: December 18, 2013 /s/ Claire H. Ouellette
Claire H. Ouellette

dms.us.51480054.09
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J esse Ventura a/k/a J ames G. J anos,

Plaintiff,

vs.

Taya Kyle, Executor of the Estate of Chris
Kyle (deceased),

Defendant.

Civil No. 12-472 RHK/JJK

PLACEHOLDER FOR
EXHIBIT 1

TO THE DECLARATION OF
CLAIRE H. OUELLETTE IN
SUPPORT OF DEFENDANTS
SECOND MOTION FOR
SUMMARY JUDGMENT

This document is a place holder for the following item(s) which are filed in conventional
or physical form with the Clerk's Office:

Exhibit 1 to the Declaration of Claire H. Ouellette in Support of Defendants
Second Motion for Summary Judgment
If you are a participant in this case, this filing will be served upon you in conventional format.
This filing was not e-filed for the following reason(s):

___ Voluminous Document* (Document number of order granting leave to file conventionally: __)

___ Unable to Scan Documents (e.g., PDF file size of one page larger than 2MB, illegible when scanned)

___ Physical Object (description)

Non Graphical/Textual Computer File (audio, video, etc.) on CD or other media

X Item Under Seal pursuant to a court order* (Document number of protective order: 15)

___ Item Under Seal pursuant to the Fed. R. Civ. P. 5.2 and Fed. R. Crim. P. 49.1
(Document number of redacted version: ___ )

___ Other (description):
* Filing of these items requires J udicial Approval.
E-file this place holder in ECF in place of the documents filed conventionally. File a copy of this Placeholder and a
copy of the NEF with the Clerk's Office along with the conventionally filed item(s).
CASE 0:12-cv-00472-RHK-JJK Document 235-1 Filed 12/18/13 Page 1 of 1

EXHIBIT 2
Page 1
1 UNI TED STATES DI STRI CT COURT
2 FOR THE DI STRI CT OF MI NNESOTA
3
4 GOVERNOR J ESSE VENTURA, ) Ci vi l Act i on No.
a/ k/ a J ames G. J anos, )
5 ) 0: 12- cv- 00472 ( RHK/ J J G)
Pl ai nt i f f , )
6 )
vs. )
7 )
CHRI S KYLE, )
8 )
Def endant . )
9 ____________________________)
10
11 CONFI DENTI AL PORTI ONS REDACTED
12
13 VI DEO DEPOSI TI ON OF SCOTT McEWEN
14
15 TAKEN ON
16 THURSDAY, J ANUARY 17, 2013
17 SAN DI EGO, CALI FORNI A
18
19
20
21
22
23 Repor t ed by:
24 KARLA MEYER BAEZ
25 RPR- CRR, CSR No. 4506
CONFI DENTI AL PORTI ONS REDACTED
SCOTT McEWEN - 1/ 17/ 2013
877- 489- 0367 www. mer r i l l cor p. com/ l aw
Mer r i l l Cor por at i on
2 ( Pages 2 t o 5)
Page 2
1 Deposition of SCOTT McEWEN taken on behalf of
2 the Plaintiff, at 600 West Broadway, Suite 1520, San
3 Diego, California, commencing 9:05 a.m., on Thursday,
4 J anuary 17, 2013, before Karla Meyer Baez, CSR No. 4506.
5
6
7
APPEARANCES:
8
FOR THE PLAINTIFF:
9
HENSON & EFRON, P.A.
10
BY: COURT J . ANDERSON, ESQ.
11
220 South Sixth Street, Suite 1800
12
Minneapolis, Minnesota 55402
13
T: 612.252.2882
14
canderson@hensonefron.com
15
16
17 FOR THE DEPONENT SCOTT McEWEN:
18 SILVER & SILVER APC
19 BY: ZVI "HERSHY" SILVER, ESQ.
20 600 West Broadway, Suite 1520
21 San Diego, California 92101
22 T: 619.231.1600
23 hsilver@silverlawfirm.com
24
25
Page 3
1 APPEARANCES (CONTINUED):
2
FOR THE DEFENDANT CHRIS KYLE:
3
FAEGRE BAKER DANIELS LLP
4
BY: J OHN P. BORGER, ESQ.
5
2200 Wells Fargo Center
6
90 S. Seventh Street
7
Minneapolis, Minnesota 55402
8
T: 612.766.7000
9
john.borger@faegreBD.com
10
11 ALSO PRESENT: Ted Bendrick, Videographer
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Page 4
1 INDEX
2 EXAMINATION
3 Witness Name Page
4 SCOTT McEWEN
5 By MR. ANDERSON ................................ 8
6 By MR. BORGER .................................. 170
7 By MR. ANDERSON ................................ 174
8
9 TRANSCRIPT PORTIONS DESIGNATED AS CONFIDENTIAL:
10 8:24-8:25, 22:15-27:3, 50:17-50:19, 72:22-80:14,
11 83:21-86:8, 99:5-100:17, 108:18-108:22, 109:8-109:10,
12 109:22-110:2, 110:10-110:11, 114:16-115:8
13
14
15 EXHIBITS
Exhibit Description Page
16 Exhibit EX-150 Agreement, CK0005970-5977, 100
CONFIDENTIAL - BOUND SEPARATELY
17 Exhibit EX-151 Exhibit A, Copyright Assignment, 105
00139-0155, CONFIDENTIAL - BOUND
18 SEPARATELY
Exhibit EX-152 "American Sniper" Option Purchase 106
19 Agreement, J une 14, 2012,
CK000001-0039, CONFIDENTIAL - BOUND
20 SEPARATELY
Exhibit EX-153 September 27, 2012, Letter of 111
21 Direction, CK0005939-5941,
CONFIDENTIAL - BOUND SEPARATELY
22 Exhibit EX-154 October 1, 2012, letter from 114
23 HarperCollins Publishers,
24 CK0005942-5953, CONFIDENTIAL - BOUND
25 SEPARATELY
Page 5
1 INDEX (CONTINUED)
2 EXHIBITS (CONTINUED)
3 Exhibit Description Page
4 Exhibit EX-155 Email 5/9/2011, CK0005195, 121
5 CONFIDENTIAL - BOUND SEPARATELY
6 Exhibit EX-156 Email 1/4/2012, CK0005226-5230, 123
8 Exhibit EX-157 Email from Sharyn Rosenblum, J anuary 134
9 9, 2012, 00241, CONFIDENTIAL - BOUND
10 SEPARATELY
11 Exhibit EX-158 Email J anuary 10, 2012, 0297, 137
13 Exhibit EX-159 Email 1/11/2012, CK0005334-5337, 142
15 Exhibit EX-160 Email J anuary 11, 2012, 00309, 145
17 Exhibit EX-161 Redacted email, J anuary 11, 2012, 152
18 00259-0262, CONFIDENTIAL - BOUND
19 SEPARATELY
20 Exhibit EX-162 Email redacted, J anuary 11, 2012, 155
21 00317-0319, CONFIDENTIAL - BOUND
22 SEPARATELY
23 Exhibit EX-163 Email redacted, J anuary 11, 2012, 160
24 00293, CONFIDENTIAL - BOUND
25 SEPARATELY
3 ( Pages 6 t o 9)
Page 6
1 INDEX (CONTINUED)
2 EXHIBITS (CONTINUED)
3
4 Exhibit Description Page
5 Exhibit EX-164 Silver & Silver APC letter 164
6 J anuary 14, 2013
7
8 Instruction Not to Answer Page Line
9 54 4
10 61 23
11 92 9
12 120 12
13 126 23
14
15 Previously Marked Exhibits CONFIDENTIAL
16 AND ALL SEPARATELY BOUND:
17 PREV MARKED Exhibit EX-88 72
25
Page 7
1 SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA
2 THURSDAY, J ANUARY 17, 2013, 9:05 A.M.
3
4 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Here begins Volume I,
5 videotape number 1 in the deposition of Scott McEwen
6 in the matter of Governor J esse Ventura versus Chris
7 Kyle in United States District Court for the District
8 of Minnesota. The civil action number is
9 0:12-cv-00472.
10 Today's date is J anuary 17th, 2013. The time
11 on the video monitor is 9:05 a.m. The video operator
12 today is Ted Bendrick, contracted by Merrill Legal
13 Solutions, at 20750 Ventura Boulevard, Suite 205,
14 Woodland Hills, California, 91364.
15 This video deposition is taking place at 600
16 West Broadway, Suite 1500, San Diego, California,
17 92101.
18 Counsel, please voice identify yourselves and
19 state whom you represent.
20 MR. ANDERSON: My name is Court Anderson, and
21 I represent plaintiff Governor Ventura.
22 MR. SILVER: My name is Hershy Silver, and I
23 represent the deponent, Scott McEwen.
24 MR. BORGER: J ohn Borger, and I represent the
25 defendant Chris Kyle.
Page 8
1 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Our court reporter today
2 is Karla Baez of Merrill Legal Solutions.
3 Would the reporter please swear in the
4 witness.
5 SCOTT McEWEN
6 having been first duly sworn by the Certified
7 Shorthand Reporter, testified as follows:
8 EXAMINATION
9 BY MR. ANDERSON:
10 Q. Mr. McEwen, as I stated a moment ago, my name
11 is Court Anderson, and I represent plaintiff Governor
12 Ventura, and I understand you're appearing here today
13 pursuant to a subpoena; is that correct?
14 A. I am.
15 Q. Can you state your full name for the record,
16 please?
17 A. Scott William McEwen.
18 Q. And what's your current address?
19 A. My home address?
20 Q. Yes.
21 A. I'd rather not give that unless it's under
22 seal.
23 Q. We'll agree to keep it under seal.
24
25
Page 9
1 Q. And what's your date of birth?
2 A. 9-23-1961.
3 Q. Now, as I understand it you are or were a
4 practicing attorney; is that correct?
5 A. I am.
6 Q. And what type of law do you practice?
7 A. I practice primarily corporate litigation,
8 within that realm, if you will. I also do some
9 personal injury.
10 Q. Okay. Have you ever had your deposition
11 taken before?
12 A. I believe I have.
13 Q. Okay. And how many times have you had your
14 deposition taken before?
15 A. I recall one time in the past that involved a
16 matter of a prior law firm.
17 Q. Okay. Were you a party in that case?
18 A. No, I was not. The law firm -- there was
19 some dispute between two different law firms, I
20 believe.
21 Q. And that's the only time you recall being
22 deposed?
23 A. It's the only time I recall.
24 Q. And then I take it in connection with your
25 practice you've probably taken many depositions, and I
4 ( Pages 10 t o 13)
Page 10
1 don't need to go over the ground rules; is that
2 correct?
3 A. I have.
4 Q. All right. What did you do to prepare for
5 your deposition here today?
6 MR. SILVER: Objection to the extent it calls
7 for attorney/client communication and attorney work
8 product?
9 A. Really did nothing. I've been dealing with a
10 family issue in Oregon. My brother, who is a
11 quadriplegic, is in very bad shape.
12 BY MR. ANDERSON:
13 Q. I'm sorry to hear that.
14 Did you review any documents to prepare for
15 your deposition?
16 A. I really did not.
17 Q. Did you have any communications with anyone
18 other than your attorney Mr. Silver?
19 A. No, I did not.
20 Q. Now, since the book was published -- and why
21 don't I turn back for a moment. When I refer to "the
22 book" here today I'm referring to the "American
23 Sniper" book written by yourself and Mr. DeFelice
24 which tells the story of a Navy SEAL Chris Kyle.
25 And if I refer to it as "the book" today,
Page 11
1 will you understand what book I'm referring to?
2 A. Fair enough.
3 Q. Now, prior to the publication of the book in
4 January of 2012, did you ever have any communications
5 with an individual named Bob Gassoff?
6 A. I don't recall any.
7 Q. Do you know who Bob Gassoff is?
8 A. I don't.
9 Q. Prior to the publication of the book in
10 January of 2012, did you have any communications with
11 John Jones?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. What did you discuss with Mr. Jones?
14 A. It would be difficult for me to summarize all
15 the things I've discussed with J J , but I'm certain I
16 had discussions with him about Chris Kyle, about Chris
17 Kyle's status as a war hero, about some of the medals
18 that Chris Kyle had obtained while he was in battle in
19 Fallujah.
20 J J was Chris Kyle's swim partner in BUD/S,
21 and J J also has intimate knowledge of a variety of
22 things that Chris did while he was at war.
23 Q. Did you discuss with JJ at all Governor
24 Ventura?
25 A. I believe I did.
Page 12
1 Q. What did you discuss with Mr. Jones?
2 A. I can't recall specifically, although it is
3 my recollection that J J had told me or had discussed
4 with me that he was there, I believe, the evening of
5 the Mikey Monsoor wake in Coronado and that he had
6 witnessed some of the events that had taken place on
7 that evening.
8 I don't recall specifically what J J had told
9 me as to the events, other than the fact that he had
10 seen Ventura and seen some of the things that
11 Mr. Ventura was saying that evening.
12 Q. Okay. Do you recall what Mr. Jones told you
13 Mr. Ventura was saying that evening?
14 A. I don't recall specifically what Mr. J ones
15 told me or on which occasion Mr. J ones had told me
16 this. There's multiple times I've seen J J , including
17 in Texas and here in Coronado -- or I should say in
18 Coronado. We're now in San Diego.
19 But I do recall specifically that J J had
20 knowledge of the incident that took place between
21 Chris Kyle and Ventura.
22 Q. Now, when you say the incident, are you
23 referring to the incident referred to in the book in a
24 chapter labeled Punching Out Scruff Face?
25 A. Generally, yes.
Page 13
1 Q. Do you recall what day that incident took
2 place?
3 A. Do I recall the specific day it took place?
4 Q. Yeah.
5 A. No, I do not.
6 Q. Do you recall the year it took place?
7 A. I believe the incident took place in 2006.
8 My recollection is somewhere in or about October, but
9 I could be wrong.
10 Q. Do you recall what day it was, in other words
11 if it was a Saturday or a Friday or --
12 A. Certainly not.
13 Q. And I take it you weren't there on this night
14 in 2006 when the alleged Ventura incident occurred; is
15 that correct?
16 A. That's correct.
17 Q. Okay. Now, turning back to Mr. Jones, do you
18 recall whether or not Mr. Jones told you whether or
19 not he saw Chris Kyle actually punch Mr. Ventura?
20 A. I don't recall J J telling me that, that he
21 was actually there when the punch took place, but I do
22 recall that J J , if I recall correctly -- and I'm
23 looking back -- was at or somewhere at the -- I
24 believe the wake, if you will.
25 Q. And as it concerns the alleged confrontation
5 ( Pages 14 t o 17)
Page 14
1 between Governor Ventura and Chris Kyle, do you recall
2 any other specifics or generalities about what
3 Mr. Jones told you he had saw or he had heard?
4 A. I recall J J said that he saw Ventura running
5 his mouth.
6 Q. And did he tell you what Mr. Ventura was
7 saying?
8 A. I got the general impression, and I can't
9 recall specific statements by J J , that there was
10 statements being made that were not pro United States,
11 not pro military and not pro SEALs.
12 Now, within that milieu, I'm not sure exactly
13 what was said, but I believe it was comments to that
14 effect and that the statements were being made loud
15 enough that the families of the dead individual
16 that -- whose wake was then taking place was able to
17 hear.
18 Q. And do you recall any more specifics about
19 what Mr. Jones told you that he had heard Mr. Ventura
20 say?
21 A. I don't recall.
22 Q. Now, why was it you were speaking to
23 Mr. Jones about Governor Ventura?
24 A. I think it was just in passing. It wasn't
25 any specific thing. J J and I -- I know him as a
Page 15
1 result of some charities that I have been involved in,
2 including the Boots foundation that's run by Marcus
3 Luttrell. J J is a big supporter of the Boots
4 foundation.
5 I recall the most in-depth conversation I've
6 ever had with J J was at an event that took place in
7 Houston, Texas, at a Boots Foundation event that took
8 place there, and that was really the most in-depth
9 conversation J J and I had, and J J was just going over
10 some of the, if you will, lighter anecdotes that -- of
11 incidents that he had seen with Chris or Chris's -- if
12 you will, been out with Chris, having a drink, that
13 kind of thing, just the type of things that SEALs talk
14 about.
15 Q. So then your discussions with Mr. Jones
16 weren't to confirm or verify Mr. Kyle's story about
17 Mr. Ventura; is that correct?
18 A. No, they weren't. There was never any
19 question.
20 Q. In your mind?
21 A. In my mind that it had taken place.
22 Q. Now, turning to John Kelly, have you ever
23 spoken to John Kelly?
24 A. J ohn Kelly, the name sound familiar, but I
25 don't recall any discussions with Mr. Kelly.
Page 16
1 Q. Mr. Kelly is also sometimes referred to as
2 JJ. Do you recall speaking to another JJ that was
3 friends with Chris Kyle?
4 A. Well, since you say Mr. Kelly sometimes is
5 referred to as J J and since I'm not certain J ohn
6 J ones' last name is J ones, I believe that I'm talking
7 about the same guy, but I've never, like, addressed
8 him as, "hey, Mr. J ones." I've always talked to him
9 as J J .
10 J J is an individual that lives in Texas. He
11 is with the Texas Homeland Security department, an
12 African American. That's the J J I'm taking about.
13 Q. And that is John Jones.
14 A. Okay.
15 Q. I was just wondering. There is a John Kelly
16 who is also from Texas, lives in Austin, Texas.
17 A. I don't think I've ever met Mr. Kelly.
18 Q. Okay. Have you ever spoken to an Andrew Paul
19 about Chris Kyle or Jesse Ventura?
20 A. Yes, I have.
21 Q. Can you detail for me what you discussed with
22 Mr. Paul as it concerns Governor Ventura.
23 A. I recall speaking with Andrew at a SEAL Team
24 Foundation event. Andrew is a big SEAL Team
25 Foundation supporter.
Page 17
1 And I believe the first time I spoke to
2 Andrew was sometime in or about 2009.
3 Now, did we discuss the J essie Ventura
4 incident at that SEAL Team Foundation event, I don't
5 think so. Maybe. I'm not certain. But I do recall
6 receiving a phone call from Andrew Paul sometime in or
7 about I want to say the first week of J anuary 2012
8 after the story, if you will, had come out that he was
9 there and he didn't like people talking about Chris
10 and saying that Chris had lied that he was there, he
11 knows what Chris talked about was the truth, and that
12 he would be willing to talk to people if in fact they
13 wanted to talk to him to verify Chris Kyle's story.
14 Q. Okay. And I want to go into a little detail
15 on that.
16 What did Mr. Paul tell you that he saw on
17 that night in October of 2006?
18 A. Once again, I'm not certain exactly what all
19 Andrew had seen, but what I recall is that Andrew had
20 seen similar, if you will, activity to that which was
21 told to me by J J , that he had been at the wake for
22 Mikey Monsoor, that he'd also been at the funeral and
23 the grave site where the -- they had placed the SEAL
24 team tridents on top into the casket, and that he was
25 there when Ventura was making his comments at the bar.
6 ( Pages 18 t o 21)
Page 18
1 Q. Did Mr. Paul tell you specifically what
2 comments Mr. Ventura made?
3 A. Once again, I can give you a generality as to
4 what I recall Mr. Paul telling me at that occasion,
5 but that the -- I believe the emphasis that was made
6 to me by Andrew at the time he called me was that he
7 saw some news report or he was aware that Ventura had
8 said that he had never met Chris Kyle, he was never
9 there the night of some wake or funeral, and that
10 Andrew Paul said I will testify that he was there and
11 he was making comments and he was making negative
12 comments towards the United States, towards the troops
13 in Iraq and towards other things and that he had
14 witnessed those. I believe that's what Mr. Paul told
15 me.
16 Q. And did Mr. Paul go into any detail as to the
17 comments or statements that Mr. Ventura made?
18 A. He may have. I'm not certain.
19 Q. Okay. And during your communications with
20 Mr. Jones and Mr. Paul, did you take any notes?
21 A. I did not.
22 Q. What else did Mr. Paul tell you about
23 Mr. Ventura and Mr. Kyle when you spoke to him?
24 A. You're talking about the incident?
25 Q. Yeah.
Page 19
1 A. I don't recall what else Andrew told me that
2 day. I told Andrew -- I recall that I told Andrew
3 that I was upset by the fact that Chris had been
4 attacked and been called a liar and that if he was
5 willing could I give his name to people so that we
6 could start putting some witnesses together to people
7 that had witnessed the incident. Andrew told me that
8 he would be willing to do that.
9 Q. And who did you give Mr. Paul's name to?
10 A. I recall at the time that I gave the name of
11 Mr. Andrew Paul to individuals at HarperCollins.
12 I recall also at the time that there was
13 people that were doing an investigation to check
14 sources, I believe, from certain other shows -- I'm
15 not sure which -- and that I may have given Mr. Paul's
16 name to them as well. I'm not certain.
17 Q. Do you recall whether or not you gave
18 Mr. Paul's name to Fox News?
19 A. I don't recall specifically doing that, but I
20 may well have.
21 Q. Okay. Now, other than what we've just
22 discussed as it concerns Mr. Paul's statements to you
23 about Governor Ventura and the incident, do you recall
24 anything else about your conversation with Mr. Paul
25 about Governor Ventura?
Page 20
1 A. At that time, no.
2 Q. And did you have any subsequent
3 communications with Mr. Paul after this communication
4 in the first week of January 2012?
5 A. I have.
6 Q. And what did you discuss with Mr. Paul in
7 those subsequent communications?
8 A. I don't recall. I may -- Andrew may have
9 told me he was deposed by your firm in this matter.
10 Andrew -- I know that I gave Andrew's
11 organization -- he was putting together a fund raiser
12 for -- I can't recall specifically, but I believe it
13 was for a dead -- a fallen SEAL's family, and I gave
14 him a couple of books that I told him that he could
15 donate and use for a donation, if you will, to -- for
16 an auction or whatever, if it would bring any value to
17 him, and Andrew accepted the books.
18 Q. Do you recall discussing anything further
19 with Mr. Paul, at least as it concerns Governor
20 Ventura or the alleged incident?
21 A. I do not.
22 Q. Now, you indicated that Mr. Paul told you he
23 was deposed.
24 What did he tell you about his deposition?
25 A. I don't recall specifically anything about
Page 21
1 his deposition, other than the fact that he had to sit
2 down and was deposed.
3 Q. Have you reviewed the transcripts of any of
4 the depositions in this case?
5 A. No, I have not.
6 Q. Now, other than what we talked about
7 concerning Mr. Paul, do you recall any other
8 communications with Mr. Paul that we haven't discussed
9 that relate to Governor Ventura or the alleged
10 incident?
11 A. I may have had other discussions with Andrew
12 at some point in time. I do support the charities
13 that he supports. We do run across each other on
14 occasion, but I don't recall ever bringing up the
15 Ventura thing on any other occasion with Andrew.
16 Q. Have you ever spoken with Jeremiah Danell?
17 A. Do you know his SEAL call name?
18 Q. I don't recall off the top of my head.
19 A. I don't know that I have.
20 Q. Okay. Have you ever spoken to Kevin Lace?
21 A. I believe I have spoken to Kevin. I'm not
22 certain, though, but I believe I have.
23 Q. I believe his nickname in the book was
24 Dobber?
25 A. Yes.
7 ( Pages 22 t o 25)
Page 22
1 Q. And do you recall any of the content of your
2 communications with Mr. Lace?
3 A. I believe early on I had a discussion with
4 Mr. Dobber or with Dobber about various things that he
5 and Chris had been through in battle.
6 Q. And did you and Mr. Lace discuss Governor
7 Ventura or the alleged incident in any way?
8 A. I believe we may have.
9 Q. And what did you discuss?
10 A. My recollection is -- and this is -- we're
11 going back now at least three years -- that Kevin had
12 also been there that night, I believe, and that Kevin
13 had witnessed events. I'm not sure of the totality of
14 the events that Kevin had witnessed.
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4 A. I am aware that in a connection of a dispute
5 at a SEAL team funeral that maybe there would be
6 differing versions of exactly what had taken place.
7 Q. Have you ever spoken to a Guy Budinscak?
8 A. Do you have a call name for him?
9 Q. I don't.
10 A. I don't recall that I have.
11 Q. Have you ever spoken to an Ivan Krusic?
12 A. Once again, without a call name I can't say
13 that I have.
14 Q. Have you ever spoken to a Debbie Job?
15 A. Yes, I have.
16 Q. And did you ever talk with Miss Job about
17 Governor Ventura or the alleged incident?
18 A. Debbie and I may have talked about that. I'm
19 not certain, but I am certain that I spoke with
20 Debbie.
21 Q. Okay. But you don't recall any of the
22 content of the communication with Miss Job as it
23 concerns Governor Ventura or the alleged incident?
24 A. I recall hearing from someone else that
25 Debbie was there. I don't recall a specific
Page 28
1 discussion with Debbie about the Ventura incident.
2 Q. Have you ever spoken to Debbie Lee?
3 A. Yes, I have.
4 Q. Have you ever spoken to Debbie Lee about
5 Governor Ventura or the alleged incident?
6 A. Yes, I have.
7 Q. And what did you discuss?
8 A. I've had multiple conversations with Debbie
9 Lee.
10 Q. Why don't we turn first to the communications
11 that you had with Miss Lee prior to the book being
12 published in January of 2012.
13 A. I recall in discussions with Debbie Lee prior
14 to the book being published that the incident with
15 Ventura may have been brought up, but it was really I
16 don't recall specifically that discussion because
17 Debbie's, if you will, part of the book was so much
18 more about her son than it was about something
19 involving Governor Ventura.
20 So as a result I don't recall any specific
21 even mention of the Governor Ventura incident because
22 we were talking about her dead son.
23 And so if it was brought up, it was brought
24 up anecdotally, because Mark is such a big part of the
25 book. I don't even think it was -- it may have been
Page 29
1 mentioned with Debbie. I'm not certain. But I do
2 know that Debbie was there on the night of the -- I
3 believe she was there. I know she was there on the
4 night of the funeral for Mark or -- excuse me -- not
5 for Mark, for Mikey Monsoor; and I'm aware that she
6 was one of the people Chris was concerned about as
7 having to put up with, if you will, negative comments
8 that were being made.
9 Q. Now, after publication of the book, do you
10 recall any communications with Miss Lee about Governor
11 Ventura --
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. -- or the alleged incident?
14 A. Yes, I do.
15 Q. Can you detail those for me.
16 A. I have seen Debbie at a few different things
17 since the -- since the book has been published.
18 Debbie is very active in SEAL Team foundation
19 events or not only the foundation but she has other
20 charities that she supports. She is very supportive
21 of fallen SEALs. I saw her at a funeral approximately
22 three weeks ago.
23 She mentioned that she had been deposed. I
24 asked her if that was really difficult for her because
25 I was concerned for her emotionally because of
9 ( Pages 30 t o 33)
Page 30
1 bringing up the whole stuff with Mark and everything
2 else; and she said she was okay, that she told her
3 part and that she was, you know, hopeful that this
4 matter would be resolved soon enough.
5 Q. Did she tell you at all what she testified to
6 in her deposition?
7 A. I didn't ask her what she testified to. She
8 just told me that she had been deposed.
9 Q. And did you at any point in time after
10 publication of the book discuss any of the details or
11 specifics about the alleged alteration between Chris
12 Kyle and Governor Ventura?
13 A. With who?
14 Q. With Miss Lee. I'm sorry.
15 A. I may have. I know I saw Debbie at a another
16 SEAL team funeral that took place about two months
17 ago; and we I believe at that time may have discussed
18 a little bit more detail because the event, the wake
19 for the individual that had died was at McP's, and so
20 she knew that I was co-author with Chris on the book,
21 and she just said something in passing that here we
22 are at McP's again, whatever.
23 Q. Did you discuss with Miss Lee at any point in
24 time any of the specifics about what Governor Ventura
25 allegedly said that night?
Page 31
1 A. I don't recall specifically discussing with
2 Debbie exactly what he had said. I do recall that she
3 had witnessed events that she believed were
4 inappropriate as far as comments towards the United
5 States and towards the SEAL teams, I believe by
6 Governor Ventura.
7 Q. But Miss Lee then didn't explain to you which
8 comment she found to be inappropriate?
9 A. No, I don't recall specifically what it is
10 Debbie had heard. I think they were trying to not
11 hear it, actually. I got the impression she was just
12 trying to block it out of her mind.
13 Q. At any point in time did you discuss with
14 Miss Lee the alleged physical alteration between
15 Governor Ventura and Chris Kyle?
16 A. I don't believe I did.
17 Q. Have you ever spoken to Mr. Borger before?
18 A. I spoke to J ohn early on after this -- I
19 recall after the litigation was first there, and
20 Mr. Borger's firm was chosen by Mr. Kyle to be the
21 counsel to defend Mr. Kyle. I recall a brief
22 conversation at that time.
23 Mr. Borger told me that they would be
24 handling the defense of Mr. Kyle in this matter and
25 that if he needed any assistance or any questions
Page 32
1 regarding events that I could recall that weren't
2 already going on here that he would contact me, but
3 that that was it.
4 Q. Did you discuss with Mr. Borger any of the
5 details of the alleged incident in October of 2006?
6 A. I don't recall that I discussed details of
7 the incident, but I may have mentioned witness names
8 that I was aware of that had discussed it or seen the
9 incident, because obviously I wasn't there.
10 Q. At some point in time did you provide
11 Mr. Borger with witness names?
12 A. I recall that I did, but I also recall that
13 they had already obtained a list from Mr. Kyle that
14 was far more extensive than mine. In other words,
15 Chris was aware of, you know, a large number of people
16 that were there that I frankly was not aware of that
17 were at the wake for Mikey.
18 Q. Now, other than what we've talked about as it
19 concerns your communication with Mr. Borger early in
20 the litigation, do you recall anything else that you
21 discussed with Mr. Borger during that communication?
22 A. No, I don't.
23 Q. Did you have any follow-up communications
24 with Mr. Borger?
25 A. I recall at one point in time possibly
Page 33
1 Mr. Borger's assistant had called me regarding whether
2 I had been served with a subpoena or not. I don't
3 recall when that was, some number of months ago; and I
4 told them that I had not. So I don't recall anything
5 else other than that.
6 Q. Do you recall any of the communications with
7 this assistant related to the subpoena?
8 A. I don't recall substance of those
9 communication, other than to say I hadn't been served
10 with anything. So ultimately Mr. Hurt -- Mr. Silver's
11 office was then retained and I believe the
12 communications took place between them later.
13 Q. Do you recall any other communications with
14 Mr. Borger?
15 A. No, I don't.
16 Q. Have you ever spoken to Lita Walker?
17 A. That could have been his assistant.
18 Q. Yeah, she's an attorney in the Faegre office.
19 So other than this communication that you
20 talked about related to the subpoena, do you recall
21 any of your other communications with Miss Walker?
22 A. No, I don't.
23 Q. Now we've spoken about a number of
24 communications. Do you have any notes or documents
25 that evidence any of these communications that we've
10 ( Pages 34 t o 37)
Page 34
1 discussed here today?
2 A. I don't believe I took any notes of those
3 communications. In fact, I'm certain I didn't.
4 Q. And were any of those communications via
5 email?
6 A. No, I don't believe so.
7 Q. Were any of these communications via text
8 message?
9 A. No. I don't know their phone numbers to
10 text.
11 Q. Were any of these communications via social
12 media, whether it be Facebook, Twitter, Google Plus,
13 or any other?
14 A. No, I'm not. No, I don't believe so.
15 Q. I'd like to turn back for a moment to your
16 education.
17 What's your undergraduate degree in?
18 A. Undergraduate degree is bachelor of science
19 from Oregon State University.
20 Q. And where did you obtain your law degree?
21 A. Pacific -- University of the Pacific,
22 McGeorge University.
23 Q. And when did you become licensed as an
24 attorney?
25 A. 1987.
Page 35
1 Q. Do you have any other degrees?
2 A. No.
3 Q. And have you written any books other than
4 Mr. Kyle's book?
5 A. Some might argue some of my appellate briefs
6 might be that way, but no.
7 Q. Have you ever been responsible or conducted
8 any investigation related to the drafting of any
9 books?
10 MR. SILVER: Objection, vague and ambiguous.
11 A. Given the fact that I have not written a book
12 in the fashion we have here in the past, I would have
13 to say no, but I have investigated before in my work
14 obviously as a litigator and as someone who does trial
15 work. We are responsible to discuss, talk with
16 witnesses, things of that nature.
17 Q. Now, I want to turn to a moment when you
18 first met Mr. Kyle.
19 How did you first meet Chris Kyle?
20 A. I believe I met Chris through a mutual
21 friend.
22 Q. And when did you meet him?
23 A. 2008, 2009. I'm not certain exactly.
24 Q. And who was the mutual friend?
25 A. Don Zub.
Page 36
1 Q. Is Mr. Zub a SEAL?
2 A. Mr. Zub was a SEAL.
3 Q. And how did Mr. Zub know Chris Kyle?
4 A. Mr. Zub met Chris Kyle, if I recall
5 correctly, at a supermarket in Alpine, California.
6 Q. So Mr. Zub and Mr. Kyle at least to the best
7 of your understanding didn't know each other from the
8 SEAL community, it was just a happenstance meeting?
9 A. It was. That's my understanding.
10 Q. Now, you indicated that you met Mr. Kyle in
11 2008 or 2009. At what point in time did you first
12 discuss the possibility that Mr. Kyle could write a
13 book?
14 A. You know, it would be difficult for me to say
15 when I first discussed with Chris the concept of
16 writing a book. It would have been sometime after I'd
17 had many interactions with Chris Kyle, which spanned
18 months.
19 I recall discussing it with him on occasions
20 when we were -- I was introducing him to people that I
21 knew of a former client, that Chris was looking for
22 work when he was going to get out of the Navy, and I
23 was trying to introduce him to some people that I
24 thought might be a good fit for Chris to work with.
25 Q. Okay. And I take it at some point in time,
Page 37
1 though, you began to have communications with Mr. Kyle
2 about writing a book; is that correct?
3 A. You're correct. I -- through my discussions
4 with Chris, I came to realize that the events that had
5 taken place during his four deployments in Iraq were
6 truly outstanding. I mean there is no way you can
7 look at what Chris's record is with two silver stars,
8 five bronze stars with valor and the number of battle
9 engagements that he had been involved in without
10 really understanding that he was a warrior that was
11 different than, you know, a lot of other people that
12 had been involved in the war.
13 Q. So who first proposed the idea that Mr. Kyle
14 would or might write a book?
15 A. Oh, I'm sure it was me. I got him into this.
16 Q. And what was Mr. Kyle's response?
17 A. Chris's response was he was very reluctant,
18 and he was reluctant for a number of reasons. I
19 believe his reluctance was because he didn't want to,
20 number one, look like he was bragging.
21 Chris is a very mild-mannered, understated
22 person, in my estimation. He doesn't like to go out
23 and say, hey, I'm a SEAL. He's not that kind of guy.
24 He is the kind of guy that you would never
25 even believe he was a SEAL until you got to know him.
11 ( Pages 38 t o 41)
Page 38
1 He doesn't try to overstate his value, if you will, to
2 the SEALs, or to the United States military.
3 I think that he -- I really gained an
4 understanding of what Chris had done through meeting
5 his friends, such as J J , such as some other guys that
6 he deployed with that -- and as a result of that I
7 said to Chris, look, you know, what you've been
8 involved in is really historical, and I think you owe
9 it to history, to United States history to impart your
10 story for others to understand.
11 Q. And I take it then at some point in time
12 Chris Kyle agreed?
13 A. He did.
14 Q. Did that take some lobbying on your part?
15 A. I don't know if that's the correct word, but
16 Chris needed assurances before he was going to get
17 involved that the story was going to be told
18 truthfully, that there wasn't going to be any, if you
19 will, changing of the political correctness or
20 anything else, as far as what had taken place, that we
21 honestly talk about the deaths of his fallen comrades
22 and that we tell the truth about what had taken place
23 in the battles that he was involved in.
24 And I think it was Chris's biggest concern
25 that he not get involved in something that was going
Page 39
1 to be inaccurate.
2 Q. At that point in time had you heard the
3 Governor Ventura story that is now written about as
4 Punching Out Scruff Face?
5 A. I'd heard it well before that.
6 Q. Who did you first hear it from?
7 A. Could have been Zub, Don Zub. It could have
8 been other friends of Zub. Zub has a group of friends
9 that are ex-SEALs. The story about Ventura, if you
10 will, and the incident with Ventura was, I would
11 say -- I would put it like this. You would be hard
12 pressed at or about the time I met Don Zub to meet a
13 SEAL that had not heard the story, in my estimation.
14 It was very common knowledge.
15 Q. At some point in time then did you discuss
16 with Mr. Kyle what the process would be as far as
17 writing the book?
18 A. Well, I did discuss with Chris what my
19 intentions were. If we were to get involved it was my
20 belief that we should approach it from a standpoint of
21 let's start putting these stories down in writing, I
22 had some people that had contacts with people with
23 publishing companies that I would record and start to
24 record the events surrounding the incidents in Iraq
25 and the battles that he was involved in, and that once
Page 40
1 we put some material together we would approach the
2 publishing company and see if they were interested.
3 Generally I would say that's what we
4 discussed.
5 Q. Okay. So then your role was to begin
6 recording some material. I presume you mean
7 interviews with Mr. Kyle?
9 Q. And during any of these -- strike that.
10 Did you actually proceed with conducting
11 interviews with Mr. Kyle?
12 A. Yes, I did.
13 Q. And I take it you recorded them?
14 A. I did.
15 Q. Did you discuss Mr. Ventura?
16 A. I don't recall ever discussing Ventura with
17 Chris at that time. We may have discussed it as a,
18 quote, drinking story, if you will. But it was such
19 an anecdotal subject. I mean we were dealing with him
20 being in battles for 30 days at a time, him being in,
21 you know, engagements that were life and death
22 situations.
23 The story of J esse Ventura frankly to me was
24 nothing. I mean it wasn't like -- I'm not speaking
25 badly of your client when I say that. It was such an
Page 41
1 anecdotal issue in the grand scheme of what Chris's
2 story was, I don't recall us ever once discussing it
3 in detail prior to or even during the time that we
4 were recording material.
5 Q. Do you still have those recordings today?
6 A. Those were sent to J esse -- J esse -- those
7 were sent to J im DeFelice by my assistant, and
8 unfortunately I found my assistant did not keep me
9 copies of those or the -- anything related to those,
10 which is somewhat distressing to me, but she just sent
11 them all to J im.
12 When we ultimately hired J im, J im asked me
13 for everything that I had, including the historical
14 research of the battles, anything I could find, you
15 know, of the assaults on Fallujah, Ramadi, Al Anbar,
16 SoldierCity, things of that nature, discussions with
17 others, my notes of discussions with other SEALs. All
18 of that stuff was sent en masse to J im DeFelice when
19 he was hired to carry the project forward.
20 Q. So now we've talked a little bit about your
21 recordings with Mr. Kyle. I want to get a feel for
22 what else you did prior to contacting the publisher.
23 So as I understand it you had some recordings
24 with Mr. Kyle.
25 Did you have any recordings of any other
12 ( Pages 42 t o 45)
Page 42
1 meetings or conversations with any other individuals?
2 A. No, I did not. I also -- Okay. Go ahead.
3 Q. And did you have any notes of any other
4 communications that you had with any other SEALs or
5 any other individuals?
6 A. If I had notes of discussions, those were
7 sent to Mr. DeFelice.
8 Q. And then you indicated you also did some
9 historical research, correct?
10 A. Yes, I did.
11 Q. And I take it all that was also provided to
12 Mr. DeFelice?
13 A. It was.
14 Q. Now, other than the recordings, the
15 communications with other individuals and the
16 historical research, did you do anything else related
17 to the book prior to contacting the publisher?
18 A. Yes. I amassed Chris's information
19 personally regarding his medals. I had multiple
20 conversations with Chris's wife, Taya. I do not
21 recall that I recorded those initial conversations
22 with Taya, but I gained a sense that Taya's story and
23 the story of the family was going to be very important
24 in a true depiction, if you will, of Chris's life at
25 that time.
Page 43
1 Q. Okay. Now other than what we've discussed
2 related to the recordings of your communications with
3 Mr. Kyle, your communications with other individuals
4 and Taya, the historical research you did and the
5 medal information you compiled, was there anything
6 else you did prior to contacting the publisher?
7 A. And discussions with other SEALs.
8 Q. Yes.
9 A. I can't recall any other type of research
10 that I did at that juncture, no.
11 Q. How many publishers did you contact about the
12 possibility of publishing Mr. Kyle's book?
13 A. I want to say two or three.
14 Q. Which publishers?
15 A. I spoke to Greenleaf Publishing in Texas. I
16 spoke to an agent in New York briefly that had spoke
17 to a couple of publishers that expressed some
18 interest. I don't recall who it was that he spoke to.
19 We ended up not hiring him.
20 Chris and I discussed it and then ultimately
21 HarperCollins.
22 Q. Do you recall the agent -- the agent's name
23 in New York that you spoke to?
24 A. I don't. He was never hired. There was
25 never any written communication.
Page 44
1 Q. Did Greenleaf express any interest in
2 possibly publishing the book?
3 A. Yes, they did.
4 Q. Did you enter into negotiations or
5 communications with Greenleaf about the possibility of
6 them publishing the book?
7 A. I spoke to Mr. Greenleaf about it and --
8 Clint Greenleaf himself, and he felt it was a very
9 compelling story. He's an ex-marine. He was very
10 interested in doing it, but we didn't end up doing a
11 deal with him.
12 Q. Did Greenleaf make any offers?
13 A. Between the time that Mr. Greenleaf had
14 expressed an interest and the time that HarperCollins
15 got involved, I believe that a decision had been made
16 to go with HarperCollins, given the size of that
17 company and given the fact it probably had a better
18 ability to get things done, if you will.
19 Q. Was there any other reason that you chose
20 HarperCollins over any other publisher?
21 A. I felt Peter Hubbard had the vision.
22 Q. Did you supply HarperCollins with any drafts
23 or any outlines of what the book would contain?
24 A. We had discussions of the general nature of
25 the book. I don't believe any drafts were provided of
Page 45
1 the book. There may have been some outlines provided
2 at that time. Once again, all of those outlines were
3 sent to Mr. DeFelice.
4 Unfortunately my assistant did not keep
5 those, the copies of what actually was sent.
6 Q. And do you know whether or not in any of
7 these communications or outlines whether Governor
8 Ventura and the alleged incident was discussed?
9 A. I don't recall they ever were. It was -- in
10 fact, I'm pretty certain they were not. When I first
11 approached or was -- when I first approached
12 HarperCollins, it was envisioned that the book was
13 going to be a third person, if you will,
14 chronicleization of the battles that Chris Kyle was
15 involved in, and it would not be a first party
16 autobiography.
17 So it really wasn't about Chris Kyle. It was
18 about, if you will, the battle of Fallujah, the loss
19 of Mark Lee, the loss of -- ultimate loss of Ryan J ob.
20 It was more of a battle-based book that was envisioned
21 in the beginning, as opposed to an
22 autobiographical-based book.
23 So Chris's, if you will, personal anecdotes
24 were specifically going to be, if you will, secondary
25 to the overall, if you will, story of the SEAL teams
13 ( Pages 46 t o 49)
Page 46
1 in battle and the war in Iraq. That's what they were
2 interested in.
3 Q. And prior to the time that Mr. DeFelice
4 forwarded to Peter Hubbard the first draft of the
5 book, do you know whether or not anyone discussed with
6 Mr. Hubbard the Jesse Ventura story?
7 A. I believe I forwarded the first draft of the
8 book to Mr. Hubbard but it might have been J im. I
9 don't know.
10 I'm sorry, I forgot the rest of your
11 question, Counsel.
12 Q. Sure. Prior to Mr. Hubbard receiving a first
13 draft of the book, did you or were you aware of anyone
14 else that discussed with Mr. Hubbard the Jesse Ventura
15 story that eventually made its way into the book?
16 A. I'm sure I did. At some point in time I had
17 seen Peter in New York during discussions, and I'm
18 sure Peter and I had discussed the subject. I know
19 the subject of, if you will, the life of Chris, the
20 smaller points, drinking with the SEALs. Things of
21 that nature had been brought up.
22 I'm sure that we discussed with -- that I had
23 discussed with Peter at some point in time the
24 incident with Ventura.
25 Q. Now, you say you're sure that you discussed
Page 47
1 it with him. Prior to forwarding the draft
2 manuscript, do you recall that specific conversation?
3 A. I recall specifically discussing with Peter
4 the incident that involved J esse Ventura, yes, prior
5 to the draft.
6 Q. So then after HarperCollins signed on to be
7 the publisher of the book, how did it come to be that
8 Mr. DeFelice was hired?
9 A. I want to put this in as best of order as I
10 can, given the fact that discussions were taking place
11 constantly between Peter Hubbard and I regarding how
12 we were going to, if you recall, get this book project
13 done.
14 Peter had told me that there were certain
15 deadlines that were going to have to be met relative
16 to the production of this book. He also told me that
17 we were going to have to change it from a third
18 person, if you will, description of the battles and
19 the events that had taken place with SEAL team 3
20 Charlie or C platoon, cadillac platoon, which they
21 referred to it as, and that they wanted to make it a
22 first party, if you will, description of Chris Kyle
23 and an autobiography of Chris Kyle to make it more
24 personable to the audience, to the reading audience.
25 I told him that I felt that was going to take
Page 48
1 a lot of time given the fact that my research had
2 really focused on the events, as opposed to the
3 individual and the description, if you will, by Chris
4 first party, and that this was going to take, in my
5 estimation, a lot more time to do.
6 Peter then said to me Scott, you know, you
7 may want to look into hiring another writer to work
8 with you on the project, and I have some people to
9 recommend to you to discuss this with.
10 I then was given the name of J im DeFelice, as
11 well as a couple of other writers that I could work
12 with potentially to do it, and that resulted in my
13 interviewing and hiring J im DeFelice.
14 Q. So then did you hire Jim DeFelice directly,
15 or did Mr. Kyle hire him?
16 A. I recall that the contract that was written
17 was a joint contract between Chris and I to hire J im,
18 but my deal with Chris provided that I pay any other
19 writer out of my sums that I was to receive, if any,
20 from the project.
21 Hence while Chris and I were both under
22 contract to hire J im DeFelice, I was the one that was
23 to pay him, because I had agreed that if there was
24 any -- anybody else that had to work on the project
25 with Chris at the beginning, I would oversee it, I
Page 49
1 would make sure the person was working under the same
2 set of rules that Chris had told me that we had to
3 work under, and that he would -- that I was
4 responsible for the cost thereof. I wasn't going to
5 change the deal with Chris.
6 Q. Why don't we turn back for a moment. I
7 haven't seen your retention agreement with Chris Kyle.
8 Is there a written agreement with Chris Kyle
9 between yourself and him prior to commencing drafting
10 the book?
11 A. There was an agreement between Chris Kyle and
12 I that also ultimately changed later in certain parts
13 that was an agreement that basically stated that Chris
14 was going to get a certain percentage, I was going to
15 get a certain percentage.
16 Q. Now, I've seen an agreement in May of 2012.
17 Was there a written agreement prior to that
18 time between yourself and Mr. Kyle related to the
19 book?
20 A. Yes, there was.
21 Q. Do you still have a copy of that?
22 A. I am not certain, given, as I said, my
23 assistant's wholesale shipping, if you will, of the
24 file. I have not seen it for a number of months, but
25 I -- I don't know that I have copy of it at this
14 ( Pages 50 t o 53)
Page 50
1 juncture now. I do have a copy of the revised
2 agreement, if you will.
3 Q. And when you say "revised agreement," are you
4 referring to the May the 22nd, 2012, agreement?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Now, I want to talk about the terms of the
7 original retention agreement. Financially what were
8 you entitled to?
9 A. Well, first of all, I'm not sure if this is
10 relevant to the discussion here today, hence I'm not
11 going to give up any objection to the extent it
12 potentially invades the attorney/client privilege,
13 because there have been discussions that may have been
14 in an attorney/client retention agreement/whatever
15 legal agreement, but essentially it was an agreement
16 that stated without waiving those objections, which
17 I'm not going to waive,
18
19
20 Q. I presume that was after expenses?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Now, in the retention agreement did it
23 provide what your duties and responsibilities were?
24 A. It provided that I --
25 MR. BORGER: Objection, relevance.
Page 51
1 A. I believe it provided that I was to write the
2 book. Chris was to give his stories or if I was to
3 retain someone else to write the book I would have to
4 pay for that.
5 BY MR. ANDERSON:
6 Q. Now in the retention agreement were your
7 obligations limited to authoring the book, or did they
8 also detail that you would provide some legal services
9 to Mr. Kyle?
10 A. I believe --
11 MR. SILVER: Objection to the extent that it
12 calls for attorney/client communication, also on the
13 grounds of relevance.
14 It's my position today that the only thing
15 we're here to discuss is the incident as it relates to
16 J esse Ventura and the incident that happened on the
17 night in question.
18 We are not here to discuss anything other
19 than -- anything other than that; and to the extent
20 you do ask about it, I'm going to object on the ground
21 of relevance and instruct the client not to answer.
22 That being the case, I do understand that in
23 preparing for this deposition and preparing for trial
24 you may have some overall themes you're trying to
25 pursue as it relates to Governor J esse Ventura. So I
Page 52
1 may allow some leeway into asking questions. If there
2 is anything specific where you're trying to get with
3 this line of questioning, if you could tell me what
4 they are we would -- I mean I'll be glad to entertain
5 it and determine whether I'll allow questioning on any
6 specific point.
7 But to just, I guess, go on random irrelevant
8 lines of questioning, I'm going to stop it.
9 MR. ANDERSON: Sure. And where I'm going
10 with this, just so it's clear, is that Mr. Kyle has
11 had a number of attorneys throughout this ordeal, as
12 you may or may not be aware; and I'm trying to get a
13 feel for who was Mr. Kyle's attorney when, so I can
14 determine if the attorney/client privilege and work
15 product privilege apply.
16 Now, as I understand it, Mr. McEwen was both
17 an author, and of course he also is an attorney, but
18 just because he's an attorney doesn't necessarily mean
19 that all of his communications with Mr. Kyle are
20 privileged, because he often was serving as an author.
21 And I'm trying to understand the distinction
22 when he was in each role to get an feel for whether
23 there is a privilege here.
24 MR. SILVER: Well, I can address that.
25 Mr. McEwen was doing -- was involved in
Page 53
1 representing Mr. Kyle on various issues throughout his
2 relationship with Mr. Kyle, and when they were writing
3 the book it was expressly understood between them that
4 even though they are co-authors there was an
5 attorney/client relationship the entire time, all
6 their communications were going to be sacred or
7 protected by the attorney/client communication.
8 BY MR. ANDERSON:
9 Q. Was there a written retention agreement that
10 provided that you would be providing Mr. Kyle with
11 legal services?
12 A. I believe within the same document relating
13 to the book that there was language that would bind me
14 as an attorney to Mr. Kyle as well.
15 Q. At what point in time did the attorney/client
16 relationship between yourself and Mr. Kyle end?
17 A. I'm not certain of that. I'm not certain
18 that the attorney/client relationship between Mr. Kyle
19 under California rules -- I believe that any
20 communications with Mr. Kyle that relate to the
21 attorney/client relationship supersede and extend
22 beyond the dates that I may have ended being his
23 attorney.
24 In other words, those communications that
25 took place while I was his attorney are just as
15 ( Pages 54 t o 57)
Page 54
1 sacred, if you will, and privileged, even though my
2 relationship with him may have ended, per se, in
3 providing him legal services.
4 Q. And what -- generally what legal services
5 did you provide Mr. Kyle?
6 MR. SILVER: Objection. I believe not only
7 the communications between an attorney and client is
8 privileged but also the nature of their work. The
9 issues involved is all privileged, and I instruct the
10 client not to answer.
11 MR. ANDERSON: I think that's beyond the
12 scope of the, privilege but why don't I rephrase the
13 question a little bit differently.
14 Q. Were you Mr. Kyle's attorney in connection
15 with the negotiations between Mr. Kyle and
16 HarperCollins?
17 A. I believe arguably, yes.
18 Q. Did Mr. Kyle have another attorney that
19 represented his interests in any way in connection
20 with the HarperCollins agreement?
21 MR. SILVER: Objection as to time.
22 A. Yeah, and my understanding is -- at the time
23 we were originally discussing that is that Chris was
24 conferring with Taya's father, who is an attorney, and
25 that I told him that I wanted him to pass our, if you
Page 55
1 will, agreements and discussions through her father,
2 and I really wanted somebody else to look at it, and
3 that I really wanted another attorney to look at this
4 to make sure that everything was on the up and up as
5 far as everybody was concerned; and my understanding
6 is that he did. But I could be wrong.
7 I don't know if his father was specifically
8 retained or if you do retain your father-in-law to
9 specifically look at an agreement such as that, but I
10 will say that I know that this agreement was in fact
11 given to his wife's father. That's my understanding.
12 Q. Now is Taya's father Chris Kirkpatrick?
13 A. No.
14 Q. Do you know Taya's father's name?
15 A. I don't know his last name. I don't know
16 Taya's maiden name. I never met the individual.
17 Q. Did you negotiate Chris Kyle's movie deal
18 with Warner Brothers?
19 A. I did negotiation of the movie deal prior to
20 WME, William Morris Entertainment, being retained by
21 Chris as his agents.
22 Q. And then I take it from your answer that WME
23 took over the negotiation process between Chris Kyle
24 and Warner Brothers; is that correct?
Page 56
1 Q. And then did you negotiate Chris Kyle's
2 contract with WME?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Do you know who did that?
5 A. No idea.
6 Q. Did you serve as Chris Kyle's attorney in
7 connection with his negotiation of the DeFelice
8 contract?
9 A. Arguably, yes, since Chris and I were both
10 parties to it. I guess that there was some -- one
11 could argue under California law that I was acting as
12 his attorney at that time, although I would say I was
13 primarily trying to negotiate a deal with Chris and I
14 with Mr. DeFelice.
15 MR. SILVER: That's enough.
16 BY MR. ANDERSON:
17 Q. Now turning to Mr. DeFelice, as I understand
18 it you interviewed Mr. DeFelice about the possibility
19 of him serving as the author of the book; is that
20 correct?
21 MR. SILVER: I'm sorry, could we take a short
22 recess? The reason is there is this loud noise and
23 I'm not sure what it is. I haven't heard it before.
24 MR. ANDERSON: That's fine.
25 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Going off the record,
Page 57
1 the time is 10:09 a.m.
2 (Recess)
3 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: We're back on the
4 record. The time is 10:24 a.m.
5 BY MR. ANDERSON:
6 Q. Back on the record here, Mr. McEwen. We had
7 talked a moment ago about Jim DeFelice, and
8 Mr. DeFelice was eventually retained to perform some
9 work on drafting the book.
10 When Mr. DeFelice was retained, what was your
11 role, seeing as Mr. DeFelice seemed to take over
12 primary responsibility for drafting the book?
13 A. I perceived my role at the beginning with J im
14 was to jointly direct the manner in which the
15 information from Chris Kyle for purposes of use in the
16 book was going to be taken. I also perceived my
17 role -- shall we wait till we get the coffee here?
18 I also perceived my role to be one of
19 ensuring and continuing to ensure that Chris Kyle was
20 not going to run into any issues with the Department
21 of Defense and/or classified material.
22 I was very concerned that Chris's working on
23 the book was not going to in any way infringe what the
24 Government of the United States would perceive to be
25 issues that involve national security.
16 ( Pages 58 t o 61)
Page 58
1 I also wanted to make sure that J im
2 understood what our goal was with the book and what we
3 needed to do with the book, as far as where Chris and
4 I had decided why the book was going to be written,
5 that it was going to be in -- making sure that the
6 United States, that the SEAL teams, that Mark Lee,
7 Mikey Monsoor, Ryan J ob and others that were killed
8 were going to be honored by the book.
9 And I also wanted to make sure that J im
10 understood that he was, you know -- had to be
11 sensitive to the issues of Chris's marriage to Taya
12 and that if we were going to get into the family
13 issues, which we ultimately did between Chris and
14 Taya, that we were respectful of those issues and that
15 we did not, if you will, cause more stress to what was
16 already a stressful situation in their marriage. So
17 that was kind of the goals, if you will.
18 I was also going to jointly write the book
19 with J im, make sure that any drafts, if you will, were
20 passed by me, approved by me, and that we went through
21 and basically dealt with those jointly.
22 Q. And did you write any of the drafts of the
23 book?
24 A. There is portions of that book that I was
25 personally involved in writing up, yes.
Page 59
1 Q. Did you draft any portions of the Punching
2 Out Scruff Face?
3 A. I did not. That was J im.
4 Q. At any point in time during the drafting
5 process did you have any recommendations to Jim that
6 he make any changes to the Punching Out Scruff Face
7 chapter?
8 A. I don't recall that I recommended anything to
9 J im relating to that chapter, per se. I recall that
10 there may have been some changes, if you will, to the
11 vernacular and -- but I don't recall any
12 recommendations that I made to J im directly on that.
13 I recall discussions, but ultimately those
14 decisions were going to be made by Chris Kyle. Chris
15 had the final say on the manuscript and the materials
16 that were going to be in the manuscript; and there
17 were stories that made it in, stories that didn't make
18 it in, and forms of stories. So I can't say that I
19 told J im one way or the other what to do there, no.
20 Q. Did Chris Kyle ever ask for any changes to
21 the Punching Out Scruff Face chapter, that you recall?
22 A. I recall discussions generally, not the
23 Punching Out Scruff Face chapter, but I recall general
24 discussions that Chris had had with us that we weren't
25 going to use names of anybody.
Page 60
1 There were some stories in there that
2 involved tense situations in battle that involved, you
3 know, situations where people had mental, physical
4 breakdowns, that involved people dying, that involved
5 other things; and Chris just made a wholesale decision
6 that code was let's not talk about anybody's name in
7 the book if we can help it, period, no matter if it
8 was good, bad, or indifferent and.
9 It kind of carried over from the issues of
10 what could or could not be, you know, put in the book
11 to issues of active duty military, guys that may be
12 compromised that are currently working for other
13 branches of the United States that is not directly
14 related to the SEALs, guys that could be taken
15 prisoner, tortured or killed as a result of disclosing
16 their name, their faces, their likeness.
17 As a result we basically wholesale -- if you
18 see the pictures in the book and things of that
19 nature, anybody that could be exposed to enemy, if you
20 will, speculation or torture were also taken out of
21 the book.
22 Q. Now, the original drafts that I saw, the
23 Punching Out Scruff Face chapter specifically
24 identified Governor Ventura.
25 Is that consistent with your recollection?
Page 61
1 A. I recall some point in time that Ventura's
2 name was there, and then a decision was made to take
3 Ventura's name out, yes.
4 Q. And why was Ventura's name removed?
5 A. I would say consistent with what I just said,
6 that there was a decision made that all people's names
7 were going to be removed, not just Ventura.
8 Ventura -- I don't even recall specifically
9 talking about Ventura, per se, because it was such an
10 anecdotal chapter. I think it was a page and a half
11 of a 380-page book that involved Ventura. So I really
12 believe that it was completely anecdotal, but Chris
13 basically said that anybody that was involved in the
14 teams at any time in any capacity were not going to
15 use anything that anybody could look at and
16 potentially, you know, second-guess or whatever else,
17 that we were going to basically take all names out.
18 Q. Did Chris Kyle ever communicate that he
19 wanted Governor Ventura's name removed from the book
20 because he was warned of a libel lawsuit?
21 A. I don't recall that specific warning or that
22 discussion, but it may well have happened.
23 Q. Did Mr. Kyle ever tell you that someone had
24 specifically warned him of a libel lawsuit if he named
25 Governor Ventura in the book?
17 ( Pages 62 t o 65)
Page 62
1 MR. SILVER: Objection, calls for
2 attorney/client communication.
3 I'm going to instruct him not to answer.
4 BY MR. ANDERSON:
5 Q. Now, were you serving as Chris Kyle's
6 attorney in the drafting process of the book?
7 A. I continually served as Chris Kyle's
8 attorney, I believe, over a period of time. Whether I
9 was serving as his attorney in the drafting process
10 specifically, I never made a demarcation in my mind
11 that my attorney relationship with Chris or my
12 protections of Chris had stopped or started.
13 But as far as my discussions with Chris, I
14 believe that during the drafting process, to the
15 extent there was a question asked that would involve
16 legal nature, then arguably I would have still been
17 engaged as an attorney at that juncture.
18 Q. I want to talk a little bit about the story
19 that Chris Kyle told you about Governor Ventura. When
20 was the first time that you sat down with Chris Kyle
21 and discussed the details about the alleged
22 confrontation between himself and Governor Ventura?
23 A. When you use the term "detail," that would be
24 difficult to say. I recall discussing with Chris at
25 some point in time that there had been some type of a
Page 63
1 dispute with J esse Ventura. I don't recall where he
2 told me at that juncture exactly where it was but that
3 it happened at the Mikey Monsoor wake in Coronado, and
4 that it resulted in some type of physical alteration
5 between the two of them.
6 Q. Prior to publication of the book did Chris
7 Kyle tell you where the alleged incident occurred?
8 A. He may have. And, you know, he probably did,
9 but really the location was not important to me.
10 Q. Did he tell you which bar or restaurant it
11 took place at?
12 A. I was aware it was in Coronado, and I was not
13 aware of which bar or restaurant it was. He may have
14 told me. He probably did tell me, but the location
15 was not important to me.
16 Q. Did Mr. Kyle tell you prior to the
17 publication of the book exactly what Governor Ventura
18 had stated prior to the alleged physical
19 confrontation?
20 A. He may well have. He may well have. But as
21 far as the interview for that portion of the book and
22 the specifics, J im is the one that kind of handled
23 that. I may have been there during that interview,
24 part of it, or possibly even all of it.
25 But as I say, you know, I don't remember
Page 64
1 specifically word for word what it is Chris said
2 relating to that, as I sit here today. I couldn't
3 tell you specifically word for word what was said. I
4 am aware that I believe that some of those
5 conversations were recorded by J im with J im's device.
6 So I do recall that Chris was offended that
7 there were other SEALs that were offended as a result
8 of the discussion or the statements that were made by
9 Ventura at the -- in the presence of the families.
10 I believe that the presence of the families
11 was key probably to their, if you will, issues with
12 the statements that were being made because they just
13 left the burial of Mikey Monsoor, and the mothers were
14 there, and I believe Chris was concerned that the
15 mothers were going to be offended by the language
16 possibly or probably more than himself.
17 I believe that Chris himself, you know, may
18 have taken some personal offense. You'd have to ask
19 Chris that. I don't know. But I do know that he did
20 not feel it appropriate that those comments be made in
21 front of others that had just lost their son.
22 Q. But would it be fair to say that you don't
23 recall the specific comments that Mr. Kyle told you
24 Governor Ventura said that night?
25 A. I don't recall the specific first time or the
Page 65
1 specific comments that Chris Kyle made those
2 discussions with me. I do recall that it was
3 generally known by Chris, and Chris had told me that
4 he'd had an altercation with Ventura as a result of
5 comments made at a SEAL team funeral for Mikey
6 Monsoor.
7 Q. Did Mr. Kyle tell you at any point in time
8 whether or not he was drinking on the night in
9 question?
10 A. I don't recall whether he told me that
11 specifically, but -- I don't recall.
12 Q. Now, in the book there is a chapter in which
13 Mr. Kyle discusses wakes, and he mentions that the
14 SEALs drink an metric ass ton of beer.
15 MR. BORGER: Object to the characterization.
16 BY MR. ANDERSON:
17 Q. Was it your understanding that the SEALs
18 ordinarily drank excessively at SEAL wakes and the
19 subsequent get-togethers?
20 A. I'm not sure how much a metric ass ton is, so
21 I don't know if you could say that that would be
22 collectively so.
23 I would say at the SEAL wakes that I've been
24 to as recently as a few weeks ago that while people
25 were having drinks, they always remained respectful
18 ( Pages 66 t o 69)
Page 66
1 around women. And amongst themselves, SEALs do what
2 SEALs do. I can't comment on that generally.
3 Q. Did Mr. Kyle ever tell you whether or not he
4 or any of his SEAL friends at that night in October of
5 2006 were drinking or drunk?
6 A. I don't think Chris ever told me that one way
7 or the other.
8 Q. Did Mr. Kyle tell you at some point in time
9 that prior to the publication of the book that he had
10 punched Ventura in the face?
11 A. I had heard that.
12 Q. And what did he tell you in that regard?
13 A. I'd heard that he'd asked generally
14 Mr. Ventura to please keep it down and that there was
15 comments that were being made in the presence of Mikey
16 Monsoor's mom, other mothers of fallen SEALs, that
17 generally I believe he told me that after he'd asked,
18 Ventura continued to speak in a loud voice that he
19 perceived and the mothers indicated was offensive to
20 them, that there was further requests made, and
21 ultimately Ventura was going to make some attempt to
22 punch him or what he perceived to be an offensive move
23 to punch him, and he then took a swing at him and
24 punched Ventura. That's my recollection of the
25 discussion.
Page 67
1 Q. Now, what did Chris Kyle tell you as it
2 concerns his alleged perception that Governor Ventura
3 was going to punch Chris Kyle?
4 I recall in the book -- and it's difficult
5 for me to say this, because I recall in the book what
6 was written. I'm not certain the first time Chris
7 told me the story, but Chris gained the impression
8 through the physical actions of Ventura that there was
9 about to be incoming, and it's not a SEAL's demeanor
10 if they believe that they are going to be attacked to
11 allow the other person to attack them first.
12 I got the impression he believed there was
13 going to be some imminent attack on him and as a
14 result thereof he was going to respond in a fashion to
15 basically avoid that.
16 Q. Now, prior to the publication of the book,
17 did Mr. Kyle tell you what happened after he punched
18 Governor Ventura in the face?
19 A. I believe Chris said that he left whatever
20 establishment he was at. My impression was that he
21 left it to avoid any contact with local authorities.
22 I don't know if there was police there, but I got the
23 impression there was some kind of police presence,
24 which is not uncommon in those locations, and that
25 Chris wanted to deploy with his troops, and if he had
Page 68
1 some interaction with the police that could
2 potentially affect his ability to deploy with his
3 platoon.
4 Q. Did Mr. Kyle tell you that he knocked
5 Governor Ventura to the sidewalk?
6 A. I don't recall specifically what Chris told
7 me relative to where Ventura went after the punch, but
8 I recall some description that Ventura went down.
9 Now, I never heard that he was knocked out.
10 I never heard anything like that. I heard generally
11 that Ventura went down. So that's what I recall.
12 Q. Did you hear whether or not Governor Ventura
13 stayed on the ground for a while or immediately rose?
14 A. I never heard what ultimately took place with
15 Ventura as far as his physical ability, but I didn't
16 gain the impression he was in any way knocked out. I
17 could be wrong, but maybe I'm -- that's my
18 recollection.
19 Q. And did Chris Kyle tell you that Governor
20 Ventura showed up the next day at a BUD/S graduation
21 ceremony with a black eye or two?
22 A. I recall hearing that there was some physical
23 evidence or whatever that Ventura had received. I
24 don't recall when that discussion took place. But I
25 recall that there was some type of next-day affair
Page 69
1 that Ventura was involved in that involved some type
2 of -- I don't know what the physical issue was or what
3 Ventura looked like.
4 Q. Okay. So then prior to the publication of
5 the book, you don't recall one way or another whether
6 or not Chris Kyle told you that Governor Ventura
7 showed up at the BUD/S graduation ceremony the next
8 day with one or two black eyes?
9 A. I recall something to that effect.
10 Q. And do you recall Chris Kyle telling you
11 prior to the publication of the book that Governor
12 Ventura was on television three or four days later
13 with one or two black eyes?
14 A. I don't recall it specifically, but that may
15 well have been -- that may well have taken place.
16 Q. So Chris Kyle may have told you that, but you
17 just don't recall one way or the other?
18 A. Yes, certainly.
19 Q. All right. Turning to the BUD/S graduation
20 ceremony the next day, have you seen the pictures of
21 Governor Ventura at the BUD/S graduation ceremony the
22 next day?
23 A. I don't know.
24 Q. Did you ever look for those?
25 A. I have not.
19 ( Pages 70 t o 73)
Page 70
1 Q. Did you ever make -- strike that.
2 Have you seen any television interviews or
3 recordings within a few days of the alleged incident
4 in October of 2006 of Governor Ventura?
5 A. I may have. I don't recall.
6 Q. Did you ever search for those?
7 A. I don't recall searching specifically for
8 that, no.
9 Q. Did you ever contact the San Diego Police
10 Department to see if there was any reported assault
11 and battery or anything else related to Governor
12 Ventura?
13 A. Did I personally?
14 Q. Yes.
16 Q. Did you ever make any effort to determine
17 whether or not Governor Ventura went to the hospital
18 after this alleged physical altercation?
19 A. I don't know how one would do that, but I
20 assumed he did not. He's an ex-SEAL. Something like
21 that is -- I wouldn't perceive to be something you go
22 to the hospital for, but maybe I'm misperceiving what
23 the damage to -- or potential damage or alleged damage
24 to J esse Ventura.
25 Q. Now Chris Kyle is a pretty big guy, isn't he?
Page 71
1 A. Chris is, you know -- he's not a small guy.
2 Q. Isn't he about six foot two?
3 A. Could be.
4 Q. Isn't he approximately 220 pounds?
5 A. I don't know what weight he was at at that
6 time.
7 Q. And Chris Kyle of course has been trained to
8 kill by the United States military, correct?
9 A. I don't think that's fair.
10 Q. Have you ever heard that Governor Ventura was
11 on the blood thinning drug Coumadin?
12 A. I don't know what drugs Mr. Ventura was
13 taking then or at any other point in time in his life.
14 Q. Do you know what Coumadin is?
15 A. I'm aware that it's a blood thinner, but
16 whether he's taking it or not I don't know.
17 Q. Have you ever seen someone with a blunt force
18 trauma that's on Coumadin that lived through it?
19 A. Someone that lived through a blunt force
20 trauma with Coumadin.
21 MR. BORGER: Objection, vague.
22 A. I certainly don't know that I have. If I
23 have, you know, I didn't know that I was observing
24 that. So no, I don't know that.
25 ///////
Page 72
1 BY MR. ANDERSON:
2 Q. Have you ever seen anyone on Coumadin get cut
3 or scraped?
4 A. I don't know anybody that has ever been on
5 Coumadin. So I'd have to, you know, conjecture there.
6 I don't.
7 Q. Now, did Chris Kyle ever tell you prior to
8 the publication of the book that Governor Ventura
9 threw a punch at him?
10 A. I don't recall that he ever said that Ventura
11 actually delivered a punch. I don't recall ever
12 hearing that. I recall -- my recollection is that he
13 gained the impression through Ventura's physical
14 actions that he was about to deliver some type of a
15 strike.
16 Q. And I take it, then, you couldn't identify
17 for me where on the patio at McP's the alleged
18 incident occurred, since you can't identify what bar
19 it was at?
20 A. I couldn't. I don't know if it happened in
21 the front or the back. I really don't.
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15 Q. Did you ever discuss at any point in time
16 with Chris Kyle his feelings about Governor Ventura?
17 A. Once again, Counsel, I'd have to tell you
18 that I don't recall a discussion as to Chris's feeling
19 of Governor Ventura, because I don't recall Governor
20 Ventura's name being brought up during this entire
21 milieu, frankly, of the book, with the exception of
22 possibly a couple of times, given the fact that we
23 were trying to document ten years of war here and not
24 a anecdotal bar issue with Ventura.
25 I mean the Ventura thing was such a small
Page 81
1 part of this work. I just don't recall specifically
2 having a discussion with him, and I don't recall a
3 discussion with him even after this lawsuit was done
4 because of, you know, him getting counsel, whatever
5 else, about Ventura, you know, in detail about his
6 feelings towards Ventura, although given the fact that
7 Ventura sued him, I can understand why he would be
8 upset with him.
9 Q. Do you ever recall during the drafting
10 process of the book Mr. Kyle saying anything
11 derogatory about Muslims?
12 MR. BORGER: Objection, relevance.
13 MR. SILVER: Yeah. Objection, relevance.
14 What's the relevance of this?
15 MR. ANDERSON: The relevance is that it goes
16 to his motive. Governor Ventura and Chris Kyle have
17 vastly different opinions on war, Muslims, and a
18 variety of other things; and it goes to Mr. Kyle's
19 motives as to why he made up this entire story.
20 A. Well, I'll tell you a story. Chris Kyle and
21 have I a mutual friend, and he was Chris Kyle's
22 interpreter in Iraq, and he's Muslim, and Chris would
23 consider him to be one of his closest confidantes.
24 Isnad [phonetic] had saved his life on multiple
25 occasions, given the fact that as an interpreter you
22 ( Pages 82 t o 85)
Page 82
1 need to make some very difficult calls going into
2 terrorist organizations, houses, things of that
3 nature; and I know he personally believes that he's
4 one of his best friends. So I don't believe Chris
5 Kyle made a comment like that. I've certainly never
6 heard it.
7 Q. I'm showing you what's --
8 A. Would you like me to give this over here to
9 the reporter so she keeps this?
10 Q. Yes, that would be great. And I might refer
11 a little back and forth too, so you can reference it.
12 A. All right.
13 Q. I'm showing you what's previously been marked
14 as Exhibit Number 60, which is a document bates
15 labeled JDF79 through JDF80.
16 MR. BORGER: That was marked as Exhibit 90,
17 is what it appears to say on it.
18 BY MR. ANDERSON:
19 Q. And this appears to me to be the first or one
20 of the first drafts about the -- what eventually
21 became the Punching Out Scruff Face chapter. So I'm
22 going to ask you to review this, and then I'm going to
23 ask if you recognize it once you're done.
24 A. Well, first of all, I don't know that your
25 characterization of scruff face as being a chapter is
Page 83
1 an accurate one. I don't consider a page and a half
2 to be a chapter. I consider it -- It certainly never
3 made it to the heading of the book that I recall, and
4 I believe it's an anecdote at most. But if we are
5 referring to the same page and a half part of the
6 book, that being the American Sniper, then I'll allow
7 you to use that for your terminology if you want to.
8 Q. Okay. That's fair.
9 MR. BORGER: For the record I will note that
10 Exhibit 90 was produced by Mr. DeFelice and designated
11 as Confidential, and it should maintain that
12 designation in connection with this deposition and any
13 testimony disclosing the content of that document
14 should also be designated as confidential at the
15 request of Mr. DeFelice.
16 A. I have no issues with that.
17 BY MR. ANDERSON:
18 Q. Go ahead. So have you had a chance to review
19 it?
20 A. Okay. I've reviewed it.
21
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23 ( Pages 86 t o 89)
Page 86
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9 BY MR. ANDERSON:
11 Exhibit 91, which appears to be a subsequent
12 iteration of the Punching Out Scruff Face chapter from
13 Exhibit 90. I'm going to ask that you take a look at
14 this and if you recognize it, and then I just have a
15 couple of specific questions.
16 MR. BORGER: The same points with respect to
17 confidentiality and the source of this as
18 being -- excuse me -- same points with respect to
19 confidentiality of this exhibit, as previously
20 indicated, also apply here. This document was
21 produced by Chris Kyle, rather than Mr. DeFelice.
22 A. I don't recall specifically seeing this
23 document before, but I may well have.
24 BY MR. ANDERSON:
25 Q. Now, if you would return to the third page of
Page 87
1 Exhibit 91.
2 A. The third page sequentially?
3 Q. Yes, CK201.
4 A. Okay.
5 Q. Near the top there on the third paragraph
6 down Governor Ventura is quoted as saying "you deserve
7 to lose a few, he told me, and then he bowed up as if
8 to belt me one." And then Mr. Kyle indicates that he
9 was uncharacteristically level-headed at that moment,
10 and he said that the parties should just step away
11 from each other.
12 And then he says "Jesse bowed up again and
13 this time he swung."
14 In the original iterations Jesse bowed up
15 only once. Do you know how it came to be that
16 subsequent iterations refer to Jesse bowing up twice?
17 A. I am not aware of if there were any changes
18 or how those took place, because J im was discussing
19 that directly with Chris, if at all. I wasn't
20 involved in that series of, if you will, discussions.
21 So I would have to speculate, and I don't think I'm
22 here to speculate. So I would leave that to J im's
23 recollection, if he has one specifically of this
24 event.
25 Q. And then this is the first reference that
Page 88
1 we've seen in any of the iterations of Governor
2 Ventura taking a swing.
3 I take it, then, much like the last question,
4 you don't have any understanding as to how that was
5 later added?
6 A. Later added to this draft?
7 Q. Correct.
8 A. You'd have to talk to J im about that. I mean
9 I don't know what J im recalls but as I --
10 MR. SILVER: Objection. To the extent you're
11 speculating I move to strike.
12 A. I am. I am speculating.
13 BY MR. ANDERSON:
14 Q. Did you ever talk with Jim DeFelice about
15 whether or not what Chris Kyle did that night would
16 constitute assault?
17 MR. BORGER: Object to this question and the
18 prior one as to form and argumentative.
19 A. I don't recall us having any discussion as to
20 whether what Chris Kyle did would technically be an
21 assault.
22 MR. ANDERSON: Why don't we take a break.
25 (Recess)
Page 89
1 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: We are back on the
2 record. Here marks the beginning of tape number 2 in
3 the deposition of Scott McEwen. The time is 11:17
4 a.m.
5 BY MR. ANDERSON:
6 Q. Mr. McEwen, on the break here I sat in front
7 of you what's previously been labeled as Exhibit 94,
8 and I'm going to ask that you briefly review it, and I
9 only have a question concerning the first page.
10 I'm going to ask if you recognize this as
11 another draft of the Punching Out Scruff Face --
12 A. Once again -- I'm sorry -- are you finished?
13 Q. -- chapter or subchapter.
14 A. Once again, I don't specifically recognize
15 it, although I would tend to agree with your
16 characterization as another draft. But as such I'm
17 not able to specifically testify to that. But go
18 ahead.
19 Q. All right.
20 MR. BORGER: Again, for the record, the
21 exhibit is confidential.
22 MR. ANDERSON: Very well.
23 Q. In the second paragraph here -- that's the
24 only paragraph that I have a question about -- the
25 highlighting at the end of the paragraph -- and I
24 ( Pages 90 t o 93)
Page 90
1 understand it's kind of difficult to read because of
2 the copying, but it says "don't want to use his full
3 name or description, was warned of lawsuit."
4 Do you see that?
5 A. I see -- I'm sorry, but if you can read that
6 on mine, you are better than me. Maybe it's my eyes,
7 but I see some what appears to be highlighted material
8 here. I don't know what that is -- what really is
9 written there, but I'll take your characterization as
10 such.
11 BY MR. ANDERSON:
12 Q. Okay. Do you know whether or not a
13 non-attorney ever warned Chris Kyle about a
14 potentially libel lawsuit?
15 A. A non-attorney.
16 MR. SILVER: I believe this may be covered
17 under the attorney/client privilege, because it would
18 relate to anything that Chris told Mr. McEwen?
19 A. I'll look -- I'll --
20 MR. SILVER: Without waiving any -- without
21 waiving any privilege, I guess you can have a limited
22 scope of inquiry into that.
23 A. My response to that is, with that objection,
24 I don't know.
25 BY MR. ANDERSON:
Page 91
2 as Exhibit Number 95, which appears to be a previous
3 draft or iteration of the Punching Out Scruff Face
4 chapter.
5 Do you recall receiving this document?
6 MR. BORGER: And, again, this exhibit is
7 designated as confidential and remains so.
8 A. You know, I don't recall receiving this
9 document specifically. But, once again, I may have,
10 and it may have been in the milieu of a 400-page
11 manuscript that this was one of the documents that was
12 in there during iterations or drafts the same as --
13 they were going back and forth; so I may well have,
14 Counsel, as part of a different document or a bigger
15 document.
16 BY MR. ANDERSON:
17 Q. Okay. How did it come to be that Jesse
18 Ventura was identified as Scruff Face, as opposed to
19 the previous iterations where he was identified as
20 Jesse Ventura?
21 A. I don't know who brought up that term. It
22 wasn't me, I don't believe. As such I don't know if
23 it was J im that did it, whether Chris referred to him
24 as such. I don't recall Chris ever referring to
25 Ventura as Scruff Face, per se. So, once again, I'm
Page 92
1 not certain.
2 Q. Now, looking at this draft here in the second
3 paragraph, they identify Scruff Face in the last
4 sentence there as a celebrity. They say that Scruff
5 served in the military, most people seemed to believe
6 he was a SEAL. As far as I know he was in service
7 during the Vietnam conflict but not actually in the
8 war.
9 Was Chris concerned at this point in time
10 that based on this description and this iteration that
11 people could actual identify Jesse Ventura as Scruff
12 Face?
14 attorney/client communication and instruct not to
15 answer.
16 A. Without referring to attorney/client
17 communications, I don't recall Chris making that
18 comment.
19 BY MR. ANDERSON:
20 Q. Did he make that comment at all around
21 Mr. DeFelice?
23 for speculation.
24 A. I never witnessed a comment like that to J im.
25 ///////
Page 93
1 BY MR. ANDERSON:
2 Q. I'm showing you what has previously been
3 marked as Exhibit Number 96, which also appears to
4 be a previous iteration, and it appears to me to be
5 comments from a Peter Hubbard, but I'm going to ask
6 you if you recognize this document.
7 MR. BORGER: And, again, this is a
8 confidential exhibit.
9 A. I will say this: I recognize a document
10 format similar to what I see here. I don't recall
11 specifically this page or this comment, if you will,
12 by PH; but it appears to be a commentary that had come
13 back from HarperCollins, Peter Hubbard, or others
14 affiliated therewith. I could be wrong.
15 So do I specifically recognize it, I think
16 your comment was, no.
17 Do I recall this one proper? No. But I do
18 recall comments going back and forth on different
19 levels of the book drafts.
20 Q. Now, you never served as an attorney for
21 Peter Hubbard or HarperCollins, correct?
22 A. No.
23 Q. That's correct?
25 Q. Now, on the right side of this page there is
25 ( Pages 94 t o 97)
Page 94
1 a comment that I'm going to direct you to, and it says
2 "Comment [PH15]: Great story. If it was witnessed by
3 fellow SEALs, thus corroboration against libel claim,
4 can we mention who it was? Jesse Ventura, I take it."
5 Do you see that?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Did you ever discuss that comment with Peter
8 Hubbard?
9 A. I may have.
10 Q. Did you ever discuss a potential libel claim
11 with Peter Hubbard?
12 A. I may have.
13 Q. You just don't recall one way or the other?
14 A. I don't recall one way or the other. You're
15 talking about prior to the book coming out?
16 Q. Yes.
17 A. All right.
18 Q. Were you ever present when Chris Kyle
19 discussed with Peter Hubbard naming Jesse Ventura in
20 the Punching Out Scruff Face chapter?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Were you ever around when Chris Kyle
23 discussed with Peter Hubbard whether or not witnesses
24 existed that could corroborate his story?
25 A. As far as this line of questioning is
Page 95
1 concerned, I have never been in a room that I can
2 recall where Peter Hubbard, Chris Kyle, and I were in
3 the room at the same time. In other words, I've met
4 with Chris independently of Peter. I've had
5 discussions with Peter personally, but I've never been
6 in a situation where Chris, Peter, and I, as I
7 recall -- that's correct. I never have.
8 Q. Okay. You say you've never been in the same
9 room. Just to close the loop, I take it that you've
10 never been involved in any sort of telephone
11 communication or other communication with Chris Kyle,
12 Peter Hubbard, and yourself and possibly others?
13 A. I have been involved in telephone
14 communications where Chris Kyle and Peter Hubbard were
15 on the phone. I do not recall a specific telephone
16 conversation where Chris, Kyle, Peter Hubbard, and I
17 were engaged in a discussion of the Punching Out
18 Scruff Face chapter, subchapter, whatever you want to
19 call it, paragraph.
20 Q. Now, after Mr. Hubbard had reviewed the
21 draft, were you involved in any communications outside
22 of communications between yourself and Chris Kyle
23 wherein you discussed the possibility of putting
24 Governor Ventura's name in the Punching Out Scruff
25 Face chapter?
Page 96
1 A. You're going to have to ask that one again.
2 That was kind of a long one.
3 MR. SILVER: Objection, vague and ambiguous,
4 compound.
5 BY MR. ANDERSON:
6 Q. After Peter Hubbard reviewed this draft, were
7 you ever involved in any communications in which it
8 was discussed that Governor Ventura's name may be
9 reinserted into the Punching Out Scruff Face chapter?
10 A. I don't recall that.
11 MR. ANDERSON: I'm willing to break for lunch
12 now so we can do lunch a little quicker, if you'd
13 like. Why don't we go off the record.
16 (Luncheon Recess)
18 record. The time is 12:06 p.m.
19 BY MR. ANDERSON:
20 Q. All right. Mr. McEwen, we're back on the
21 record here after lunch. I wanted to follow up on a
22 couple of questions that I had prior to lunch.
23 You had mentioned that there was a DOD review
24 of a manuscript of the book. Now, first, for the
25 record, I presume you're referring to the Department
Page 97
1 of Defense, correct?
2 A. I am.
3 Q. And were you the individual responsible for
4 forwarding a draft to the Department of Defense for
5 their review?
6 A. I was.
7 Q. And did the Department of Defense have
8 certain edits or modifications that they wanted of the
9 book?
10 A. They did.
11 Q. And I don't want to know the details of what
12 they were looking for, but I want to know generally
13 approximately how many changes they had.
14 A. It's difficult for me to say exactly how many
15 there were. There were several. There were several
16 changes that took place during that review process.
17 Do you have any estimate as to how many
18 changes there were? In other words, was there less
19 than ten?
20 MR. SILVER: Objection, relevance.
21 A. I -- there was more than ten.
22 BY MR. ANDERSON:
23 Q. Okay. Was there more or less than 20?
24 A. When you say changes, it's difficult for me
25 to specifically state an answer to that, because there
26 ( Pages 98 t o 101)
Page 98
1 was entire sectors of the book that the Department of
2 Defense had issues with.
3 Q. When you say "sectors" do you mean entire
4 chapters?
5 A. Yeah.
6 Q. And I take it, then, you worked with the
7 Department of Defense on those chapters to remove the
8 portions that they found objectionable, or at least
9 modify them; is that fair?
10 A. I don't think "objectionable" is the right
11 word. I think potentially classified is the right
12 word. They had a different version of the events than
13 we believed.
14 But that being said, the Department of
15 Defense makes the final call; and as a former military
16 member, active duty, Chris Kyle was compelled by law
17 to submit his book to them for review and for analysis
18 as to any potential issues that may potentially
19 infringe upon classified or potentially classified
20 issues.
21 Q. So then was it you or Mr. DeFelice that made
22 the modifications resulting from the Department of
23 Defenses input?
24 A. I don't recall if it was J im or I or both. I
25 think it was a combination of both of us that made
Page 99
1 sure that what the DOD issues had that those were
2 dealt with.
3 And when we say DOD we're talking about the
4 entire milieu of the United States Government.
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18 Q. I think we're on 147. Is that your
19 understanding?
20 A. I can't remember where we left off.
21 MR. ANDERSON: We can just say 150 to be
22 safe, if you don't mind the gap.
23 Would you Mark that as Exhibit 150.
24 (Deposition Exhibit EX-150 was marked for
25 identification)
Page 101
1 BY MR. ANDERSON:
2 Q. I'm showing you what's been marked as Exhibit
3 150, which was a document produced by Mr. Kyle in
4 discovery. I'm going to ask you to review this
5 document, and then I'm going to ask you if you
6 recognize it.
7 MR. BORGER: This is a confidential document.
8 It maintains that classification.
9 A. I recognize it.
10 BY MR. ANDERSON:
11 Q. Is this an agreement that you and Mr. Kyle
12 entered into effective as of May 22, 2012?
13 A. I believe that was the date.
14 Q. Now, is this agreement a modification of your
15 original retention agreement with Mr. Kyle?
16 A. I believe it could characterized as such.
17 Q. Now, at the point in time -- strike that.
18 Were there any other modifications to your
19 retention agreement other than this May 22, 2012,
20 agreement, Exhibit 150?
21 MR. SILVER: Objection, relevance. I just
22 don't see the relevance of any of this. I mean to the
23 extent that Governor J esse Ventura is claiming that he
24 has the rights to all the proceeds of the book, that's
25 a gross number, if you divide it 50/20, 20/30. That's
27 ( Pages 102 t o 105)
Page 102
1 only relevant.
2 I don't see how any of this is relevant. I
3 think we've exhausted this line of questioning, and I
4 don't see the benefit to it, and it doesn't make any
5 sense to me.
6 MR. ANDERSON: May I explain?
7 MR. SILVER: Sure.
8 MR. ANDERSON: Sure. In this case there are
9 a variety of claims, including misappropriation and
10 unjust enrichment. Summary judgment motions were
11 brought on those, and the Court specifically concluded
12 they are a part of the case.
13 The measure of damages on those claims, as
14 the Court itself actually noted, is disgorgement of
15 profits; so I'm trying to get to the bottom of exactly
16 what percentage of what income Mr. Kyle receives and
17 what Mr. McEwen receives so as we can determine which
18 profits should in fact be disgorged.
19 MR. SILVER: All right. I will allow limited
20 questioning as to that point, and I don't see how any
21 previous versions of agreements and this version of
22 agreement has any relevance to it.
23 The real question is what is the current
24 split between you and Mr. Kyle and has any
25 disbursements been allocated in accordance with that
Page 103
1 agreement. Whether they had previous agreements is
2 irrelevant.
3 MR. BORGER: And I join in the relevance
4 objections.
5 MR. ANDERSON: And I disagree with you to the
6 extent that prior to May 22, 2012, certain payments
7 were made, and I've tried to get a feel for what was
8 disbursed under the old agreement, what was disbursed
9 under the new agreement to further calculate this.
10 MR. SILVER: All right. Well, perhaps we can
11 ask focused questions on that, as what is the current
12 split and were previous disbursements made in
13 accordance with the current split. If not, how did
14 the previous disbursements differ.
15 MR. ANDERSON: And that's what I'm trying to
16 get to, but I'm just trying to determine what the
17 nature of the agreements are first. And so I'm just
18 trying to understand the scope of the agreements.
19 My understanding is that there are only two,
20 and then once we establish that I don't have any
21 specific questions about the details of this
22 agreement, other than the financial aspect.
23 MR. SILVER: Well, I'll allow. It's your
24 deposition, I'll allow limited questioning just for
25 that limited scope.
Page 104
1 THE WITNESS: Go ahead, I'm sorry. What was
2 the question?
3 BY MR. ANDERSON:
4 Q. Sure. Now you're looking at Exhibit 150,
5 which is a May 20, 2012, agreement.
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. We've previously discussed that prior to that
8 date you had some sort of retention agreement between
9 yourself and Mr. Kyle, correct?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And other than those two agreements, are
12 there any other agreements with Mr. Kyle that you have
13 that relate in any way to the book or anything related
14 to the book in any way?
15 MR. BORGER: I'll object to that as going
16 beyond the scope of the relevance explanation that you
17 just provided.
18 A. All right. With those objections noted, I'm
19 not aware of anything else other than what we have
20 here in Exhibit Number 150 as we speak.
21 BY MR. ANDERSON:
22 Q. And then so as we sit here today, the current
23 financial arrangement between yourself and Mr. Kyle
24 related to the book is reflected in Exhibit 150,
25 correct?
Page 105
1 A. I believe it is. I will say that I'm not
2 sure where J im DeFelice's name is noted in this
3 agreement; but as long as J im's money is paid first
4 and then everything else is split as indicated in
5 here, then yes, this is the one.
6 Q. And I think that -- just for your reference,
7 I believe that's paragraph 4.
8 A. All right.
9 Q. Now, there is some mention here of a Katz
10 Golden and Rosenman that's entitled as some sort of
11 payment in paragraph 9 there.
12 A. Uh-huh.
13 Q. What is that firm's role in this?
14 A. Katz, Golden and Rosenman were attorneys
15 retained by Chris and I for purposes of dealing with
16 issues in Hollywood.
18 identification)
19 BY MR. ANDERSON:
20 Q. I'm showing you what's been marked Exhibit
21 151, which is a document bates labeled 139 through
22 155, and I'll let you know that these are documents
23 that were produced by HarperCollins during the course
24 of discovery.
25 MR. BORGER: I will note for the record that
28 ( Pages 106 t o 109)
Page 106
1 those were produced under confidential designations by
2 HarperCollins, and even with that designation by
3 HarperCollins they should retain that classification.
4 BY MR. ANDERSON:
5 Q. And I'm going to ask you as it concerns the
6 portion of Exhibit 151 with the bates labels 141
7 through 155.
8 A. Okay.
9 Q. Is this an agreement that you entered into
10 with Chris Kyle and HarperCollins?
11 A. Yes, it is.
12 Q. Now, on the bottom here of the exhibit
13 labeled 141, there is a portion in the bottom
14 left-hand area that says redacted.
15 Do you know what that is?
16 A. I'm uncertain, but I think that's probably a
17 Social Security Number, maybe. I think those are
18 Social Security Numbers were placed in there, my
19 recollection is, and that they didn't want to produce
20 Social Security Numbers. I can see no other reason
21 for redaction there.
22 But, once again, I don't have the original
23 with me to compare the two, but I know there was -- I
24 believe at the signature page of this document there
25 was a fill-in-the-blanks portion for the Social
Page 107
1 Security Numbers for Chris Kyle and myself.
2 Q. And after December 20th, 2010, the date of
3 this agreement, did you enter into any subsequent
4 agreements with HarperCollins Publishers related to
5 Chris Kyle or the book?
6 A. I'm not sure that there was an agreement; but
7 ultimately no, I don't believe there is anything that
8 HarperCollins signed off on, no. There may have been,
9 but I'm not aware of it.
11 identification)
12 MR. SILVER: Are we going to mark this as
13 152?
14 MR. ANDERSON: Yes. No, I'm sorry. I'm just
15 going to have that one exhibit as a whole one.
16 MR. SILVER: I'm sorry, there is an agreement
17 we marked as 150?
18 MR. ANDERSON: No, the document that I gave
19 you originally with the first couple of pages I just
20 marked in total, and I didn't have any follow-up
21 questions on Exhibit A because he had already answered
22 those for me.
23 MR. SILVER: What number is this?
24 MR. ANDERSON: That's 151.
25 MR. SILVER: How about the agreement?
Page 108
1 MR. ANDERSON: The agreement -- Let's see
2 here.
3 THE WITNESS: It was part of the same --
4 MR. ANDERSON: The agreement was 150. This
5 is 151. And I've just handed you what's labeled an
6 Option Purchase Agreement.
7 MR. SILVER: Are we going to mark this as
8 152?
9 MR. ANDERSON: Yes.
10 Q. Mr. McEwen, I'm showing you what's been
11 marked as Exhibit 152, which is a document bates
12 labeled CK-1 through CK-39, and my question is first
13 of all did you and Mr. Kyle eventually entered into an
14 Option Purchase Agreement with Warner Brothers
15 Pictures.
16 A. There was a final agreement that was entered
17 into between myself, Chris, and Warner Brothers, yes.
18
19
20
21
22
23 Q. Do you see that?
24 A. I see that.
25 Q. And was that the eventual payment ratio that
Page 109
1 was agreed upon?
2 A. Well, I think there's an assumption being
3 made that this document in front of us right here is
4 the final agreement. If that's part of your question,
5 then that assumption is incorrect. This is not the
6 final agreement that I recall, and there appears to be
7 some interlineations on this agreement that were
8 handwritten.
9
10
11 Q. No, I understand 152 is not a final executed
12 agreement.
13 A. All right.
14 Q. There is some notation in the upper portion
15 that says WME comments.
16 A. Right, right, right.
17 Q. So obviously this is a draft, and I just want
18 to get a feel for the eventual agreement that was
19 reached, and you indicated that there was an eventual
20 option purchase agreement, correct?
22
23
24
25
29 ( Pages 110 t o 113)
Page 110
1
2
3 Q. Okay. And then do you know whether or not
4 any payments have been made pursuant to the option
5 purchase agreement?
6 A. Yes, I am aware.
7 Q. And what has been made?
8 A. The initial purchase payment for the option
9 was made.
10
11
12 Q. And has Warner Brothers made any other
13 payments pursuant to the eventually executed Option
14 Purchase Agreement?
15 A. I'm not aware of any.
16 Q. Okay. Do you know whether or not Warner
17 Brothers Pictures plans to proceed with making a movie
18 on Mr. Kyle's story?
19 A. I have no idea. I mean they have apparently
20 made -- they have apparently purchased it for purposes
21 of an option.
22 Whether the movie studios eventually decide
23 to do that or not is anyone's guess.
24 Q. Has anyone told you whether or not an actor
25 named Bradley Cooper has signed on to play a role in a
Page 111
1 movie based on Chris Kyle's story?
2 A. I've heard that, yes.
3 Q. Who did you hear that from?
4 A. I've seen it on the internet. I'm aware that
5 Bradley was interested in the project. I'm also aware
6 Bradley has not made a final decision whether it's
7 going to be him playing the role or someone else, if
8 in fact a movie gets made.
9 Q. Have you spoken to anyone at Warner Brothers
10 where they are at in the process of making a movie or
11 making a determination as to whether a movie will be
12 made?
13 A. I haven't spoken to anyone at Warner Brothers
14 since -- directly with Warner Brothers since before
15 WME became involved. So I have no idea what the
16 process is as we speak.
17 (Deposition EX-Exhibit 153 was marked for
18 identification)
19 BY MR. ANDERSON:
20 Q. I'm showing you what's been labeled as
21 Exhibit 153, which is a document bates labeled CUKE
22 5939 through 5941.
23 I'm going to ask you to review this document,
24 and my next question is going to be whether you
25 recognize it.
Page 112
1 MR. BORGER: This is a confidential document.
2 THE WITNESS: Are we acting on the assumption
3 that all of this discussion is objected to on the
4 grounds of relevance?
5 MR. SILVER: Well, to the extent -- it's my
6 understanding that to the extent it has to do with the
7 disbursements from Warner Brothers or arrangements of
8 how to divide profits from the book or the movie, it
9 is discoverable as for disgorgement purposes or for
10 calculating damages. However, beyond that I think it
11 is irrelevant.
12 THE WITNESS: So you're objecting on the
13 grounds of relevance?
14 MR. SILVER: I'm not sure what the question
15 is.
16 BY MR. ANDERSON:
17 Q. I'm just asking if you recognize the document
18 first.
19 A. Yes, I recognize it.
20 Q. Okay. Is that your signature on the last
21 page of Exhibit 153?
22 A. Yes, it is.
23 Q. And is it your understanding, then, that WME
24 entertainment is making all payments that relate to
25 Chris Kyle or the movie concerning Chris Kyle in the
Page 113
1 manner in which Exhibit 153 directs those payments to
2 be made?
3 MR. SILVER: Objection, vague and ambiguous.
4 BY MR. ANDERSON:
5 Q. All right. Why don't we turn to the second
6 page of Exhibit 153. You know what? Let's turn to
7 the first page first. On the last paragraph on the
8 first page of Exhibit 153 it discusses how the
9 payments are to be made.
10 A. The last page of the first paragraph of 153?
11 Q. The last paragraph of the first page.
12 A. Okay.
13 Q. It says pursuant to the --
14 A. All right. All right. All right.
15 Q. From that paragraph down into the next
16 page --
17 A. Yes, this is consistent with my
18 understanding.
19 Q. Okay. So then Exhibit 153 does in fact
20 reflect how WME has made payments to Mr. Kyle and
21 yourself, correct?
22 A. Yes, it does.
23 Q. And this is dated September 27, 2012.
24 Have there been any modifications to this
25 letter of direction?
30 ( Pages 114 t o 117)
Page 114
1 A. Not that I'm aware of.
3 identification)
4 BY MR. ANDERSON:
5 Q. I'm showing you what's been labeled 154,
6 which is a document bates labeled CK 5942 through
7 5953. This appears to be a document that
8 HarperCollins Publishers sent to William Morris
9 Endeavor but addressed to yourself and Mr. Kyle.
10 Have you seen this document before?
11 A. I have.
12 Q. Now turning to the --
13 MR. BORGER: Again, just for the record this
14 is a confidential document.
15 BY MR. ANDERSON:
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Page 115
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 A. I don't know. I never saw an accounting of
10 what Chris received.
11 Q. Now, reviewing this, this appears to be
12 payments made pursuant to the book contract through
13 June of 2012.
14 Has another payment been made subsequent to
15 this from HarperCollins?
17 Q. Is it your understanding that HarperCollins
18 Publishers is required to make a payment on the book
19 every six months, presuming a payment needs to be
20 made?
21 A. It's my understanding.
22 Q. Do you know when the second payment here for
23 the year ended 2012 is expected?
24 A. I believe under the terms of the original
25 agreement with HarperCollins they have a certain
Page 116
1 period of time in which to receive buy-backs,
2 rejections, whatever else from the books. Hence
3 pursuant to the terms I believe it's some 90 to 120
4 days after the closing period that they actually
5 disburse money.
6 Q. Do you have any estimate as to what this
7 check from HarperCollins will be for the year ended
8 2012?
9 A. No, I don't.
10 Q. Have you ever spoken to anyone as to how the
11 book sales went in the second half of 2012?
12 A. No, I have not. Not specifically.
13 Q. Have you served in the military before?
14 A. No, I have not.
15 Q. Prior to hearing this story concerning
16 Mr. Kyle and Jesse Ventura, the alleged confrontation,
17 did you have any opinions of Governor Ventura?
18 A. Not really.
19 Q. After Mr. Kyle told you the story about the
20 alleged alteration or at least after you had first
21 heard this story, did your opinion of Governor Ventura
22 change in any way?
23 A. Not really.
24 Q. Did Mr. Kyle ever discuss with you the
25 sequence of events that occurred on the day of the
Page 117
1 alleged altercation, in other words the funeral?
2 A. I'm sure Chris did, yes.
3 Q. And did he tell you approximately what time
4 of day it was when Mikey Monsoor's funeral took place?
5 A. He may have. I don't recall specifically.
6 I've been to several Navy SEAL funerals at Balboa or I
7 should say at Fort Rosecrans. Generally they are held
8 in the early afternoon.
9 Q. And did Mr. Kyle tell you what he did after
10 Mikey Monsoor's funeral?
11 A. He may have.
12 Q. But you just don't recall what he said?
13 A. I don't recall specifically his driving or
14 his actions. I'm aware that he was with a blind
15 person. So I'm not sure if there was any special
16 things that were done as a result of him being with
17 Ryan J ob or not.
18 Q. Now, you mentioned before that you spoke with
19 Mr. Kyle about what happened after the alleged
20 physical altercation; and if I recall your testimony
21 correct, you said that he ran off; is that correct?
22 A. I believe he left the scene, yes.
23 Q. And where did he go after he left the scene?
24 A. Since then I've had some more information and
25 probably had it before, just can't recall. But it's
31 ( Pages 118 t o 121)
Page 118
1 my recollection that he went to Danny's.
2 Q. And Danny's is a nearby bar, correct?
4 Q. Now, in the book it's written that, quote,
5 SEAL funerals are kind of like Irish wakes except
6 there is a lot more drinking, which begs this
7 question. How much beer do you need for a SEAL wake.
8 That is classified information. But rest assured, it
9 is more than a metric ass ton.
10 Did you ever discuss with Mr. Kyle the amount
11 of liquor or alcohol that was consumed at SEAL wakes?
12 A. At any SEAL wakes or at Mikey Monsoor's wake?
13 Q. Any wake.
14 A. I don't know if I specifically talked to
15 Chris about the drinking, if you will, arrangements
16 for a SEAL team funeral.
17 I think I recall Chris making that type of a
18 Texas, if you will, statement, "metric ass ton," if
19 you will, but I think that's more of a vernacular, if
20 you will, than anything else.
21 Q. But Mr. Kyle communicated to you in one way
22 or another, though, that SEALs drink a lot at the
23 wakes, didn't he?
24 A. I don't recall.
25 MR. BORGER: Vague and argumentative.
Page 119
1 A. I don't recall specifically Chris telling me
2 that, as opposed to, you know, some other person, if
3 you will; but I'm not saying he didn't, you know. So
4 I don't know. Specifically could I tell you a time
5 when Chris told me at a wake what was consumed, no.
6 BY MR. ANDERSON:
7 Q. Now, you had mentioned that you had spoken to
8 John Jones about the alleged Ventura confrontation. I
9 believe you referred to him as JJ?
11 Q. Did Mr. Jones ever tell you how much he was
12 drinking that evening?
13 A. J J himself?
14 Q. Yes.
15 A. I don't recall J J telling me how much he
16 drank.
17 Q. Did you hear from anyone else how much JJ
18 drank that night or whether or not he was drunk?
19 A. No one specifically ever told me how much J J
20 was drinking.
21 Q. Did anyone tell you generally?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Did Chris Kyle tell you that in the alleged
24 physical altercation between himself and Jessie
25 Ventura that Jessie Ventura landed on top of or was
Page 120
1 pushed up or fell against any tables or chairs?
2 A. He may have.
3 Q. You just don't recall one way or the other?
4 A. I recall references to -- no, I don't recall
5 one way or the other. I think I heard that at some
6 point in time. I don't recall when it was. He may
7 have said that.
8 Q. Did you ever listen to Chris Kyle's interview
9 on Fox with Bill O'Reilly?
10 A. I believe I saw portions of that.
11 Q. And did -- after that interview did you and
12 Mr. Kyle ever discuss the fact that Governor Ventura
13 had now been publicly identified as Scruff Face?
15 attorney/client communication, instruct not to answer.
16 BY MR. ANDERSON:
17 Q. Did you ever listen to either of Kyle's
18 interviews with the Opie & Anthony Show?
19 A. I don't believe I have ever heard the second.
20 I believe I heard portions of the first.
21 Q. Did you have any discussions with anyone
22 employed by or representing the company that put out
23 the Opie & Anthony Show regarding Kyle's interview?
24 A. Not that I recall.
25 Q. Did you have any communications with anyone
Page 121
1 at Fox concerning Chris Kyle or Governor Ventura?
2 A. As I indicated earlier in my deposition, I
3 believe I recall receiving a phone call from
4 someone -- I don't know if they were affiliated
5 directly with Fox or not -- about any witnesses that I
6 was aware of that may have witnessed the incident
7 between Ventura and Chris.
8 And so in response to that question I think
9 there may have been one occasion --
10 Q. Okay.
11 A. -- possibly two.
12 Q. And did you discuss on that one or two
13 occasions anything other than potential witnesses that
14 could allegedly corroborate Mr. Kyle's story?
15 A. Not that I'm aware of. I should say not that
16 I recall.
17 MR. ANDERSON; why don't we go off the record
18 for just with moment.
21 (Recess)
25 identification)
32 ( Pages 122 t o 125)
Page 122
1 BY MR. ANDERSON:
3 155, which is a document bates labeled 51 -- I'm
4 sorry -- CK 5195. In this there is some communication
5 back and forth, and you were involved in the original
6 communication, the original email in which Peter
7 Hubbard indicates that 60 Minutes and The Today Show
8 were interested in the book.
9 And then above that was an email that you
10 weren't copied on related to sending out advanced
11 copies of the book and asking for a treatment.
12 Do you know whether or not a treatment was
13 ever prepared?
14 A. I believe it was.
15 Q. And do you know who that was provided to?
16 A. The treatment?
17 Q. Yeah.
18 A. I believe that was provided to 20th Century
19 Fox or...
20 MR. BORGER: For the record, this is a
21 confidential document.
22 BY MR. ANDERSON:
23 Q. And was it provided to anyone other than 20th
24 Century Fox?
25 A. It may have been.
Page 123
1 Q. Was it is provided to Warner Brothers?
2 A. At that point in time, no --
3 Q. And --
4 A. -- that I'm aware of.
5 Q. At some point in time did someone provide the
6 treatment to Warner Brothers?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And did the treatment make any mention of
9 Jessie Ventura?
11 Q. Did you ever have any communications with
12 Chris Kyle about using his book to help promote his
13 business Craft International?
14 A. I don't recall a specific discussion with
15 Chris about the book promoting his business.
16 Certainly at the time we were working on the book his
17 business never existed.
18 Q. But after publication of the book did you
19 ever discuss with Mr. Kyle whether or not the American
20 Sniper book would be useful as a promotional tool for
21 his business Craft International?
22 A. I never had that discussion.
24 identification)
25 BY MR. ANDERSON:
Page 124
2 156, which is a document bates labeled CK 5226 through
3 5230.
4 I'm going to ask if you recognize this
5 document.
6 MR. BORGER: Again, this document is
7 confidential.
8 A. It appears to be two documents here. One is
9 a series or a couple of emails. One from myself to
10 Sharyn Rosenblum, apparently, and then one from -- I
11 don't know what this chain is. But do I recognize it,
12 no. But do I believe it to be something from my email
13 based on what I'm saying, probably.
14 BY MR. ANDERSON:
15 Q. Just for the record, then, is your email
16 address mcewenesq@aol.com?
18 Q. Now, turning down on the first page of
19 Exhibit 156 --
20 A. Page 1.
21 Q. Yeah. It's an email from yourself to Sharyn
22 Rosenblum and Chris Kyle dated January 4, 2012, at
23 10:05 a.m.
24 Do you see that?
25 A. Yes.
Page 125
1 Q. As I understand it, Miss Rosenblum was
2 responsible for helping assist Mr. Kyle in promoting
3 the book, correct?
4 A. I think she's a publicist for HarperCollins.
5 Q. And she was assigned the Chris Kyle book as
6 part of her responsibility at HarperCollins, correct?
7 A. I don't know how they physically or
8 administratively deal with that subject; so I know
9 Sharyn was working with the project; so I don't know
10 how they assign it.
11 Q. Now, turning down to that email I just
12 referenced, you indicate that you'd like to see a copy
13 of the link for the Opie & Anthony interview.
14 Did you ever receive a copy of that link?
15 A. I may have.
16 Q. And that was the interview in which Mr. Kyle
17 discussed Governor Ventura being Scruff Face, correct?
18 A. May have been.
19 Q. Turning to the next sentence here it says --
20 or you write "people are commenting on how good it was
21 on the Facebook site."
22 Which Facebook site are you referring to?
23 A. HarperCollins assisted in creating a Facebook
24 site for American Sniper, the book. I believe that's
25 what I'm referring to there.
33 ( Pages 126 t o 129)
Page 126
1 Q. And were people making comments about the
2 alleged Ventura confrontation on this Facebook site?
3 A. I don't recall any comments specifically
4 about Ventura on there, but some of those sites
5 there's comments that are made that, you know -- that
6 I'm not aware of.
7 So I mean there's different ways of making
8 comments on those sites apparently that -- in
9 different boxes, so there may well have been.
10 Q. Do you know what search engine optimization
11 is?
12 A. I've heard of it. Have I ever done it, no.
13 Q. Do you know whether or not as a part of
14 promoting the book anyone used the Ventura name as a
15 term that would pull up Chris Kyle's book on the
16 internet?
17 A. I've never heard of that, and I would doubt
18 it, but it may have happened. I certainly have no
19 knowledge of that.
20 Q. Did you ever have any communications with
21 Mr. Kyle or James DeFelice as to how to address or
22 deal with the publicity the Ventura incident was
23 receiving shortly after the publication of the book?
24 MR. SILVER: Objection. To the extent that's
25 asking for communication between Mr. McEwen and Chris
Page 127
1 Kyle, I object and instruct not to answer.
2 To the extent -- you answer as to DeFelice.
3 A. Yeah, I think J im and I may have discussed
4 it. I'm sure we probably did, not specifically
5 because of that interview, but certainly after the
6 retraction or whatever responses by Ventura.
7 BY MR. ANDERSON:
8 Q. And what did you discuss with Jim DeFelice?
9 A. I don't recall specifically what J im and I
10 discussed, other than the fact that both of us were
11 concerned that this Ventura, if you will, footnote or
12 minor portion of the book may override the overall
13 message of the book which both J im and I were
14 concerned about, because we didn't want these other
15 issues to get in front of what we felt the reason for
16 the book was.
17 Q. Did you ever discuss with Jim DeFelice the
18 fact that the Ventura story helped the book go viral?
19 A. I don't use that term viral. Did I ever
20 discuss that with him? I may have used that term
21 "viral," but it's not something I would use on a daily
22 basis.
23 Did I specifically recall J im telling or me
24 discussing with J im that the viral -- that it had gone
25 viral as a result of the Ventura story.
Page 128
1 Q. Specifically or generally.
2 A. I may have generally said something to J im
3 about the Ventura story, but I don't recall it being
4 in relation to some viral statement.
5 Q. Do you recall ever discussing with Jim
6 DeFelice the fact that the Ventura story had helped
7 Kyle's book in publicity?
8 A. I don't recall it specifically, but it may
9 have been in a communication. I don't know.
10 Q. Do you ever recall having a communication
11 with Jim DeFelice in which you discussed strategizing
12 to help Chris Kyle get United States veterans on his
13 side of the story?
14 A. I may have had a discussion with J im about
15 putting the witnesses together in response to
16 Ventura's comments that the incident never occurred
17 and/or that he was never at the bar with Chris Kyle,
18 in other words to get the witnesses together that were
19 SEALs. I may have discussed that with J im.
20 Q. But my question is just a little bit
21 different.
22 My question is did you ever discuss with
23 Mr. DeFelice a strategy to have the United States
24 veteran community side with Chris Kyle on the
25 differences between Kyle's story and what Ventura said
Page 129
1 actually happened?
2 A. I don't know if that language was ever used,
3 certainly would never have been used in any way that
4 was untoward.
5 I believe that we may have said that, you
6 know, something to the effect that it was necessary
7 that we get the guys that were there to discuss it
8 because the other SEAL team guys that I had talked to
9 and J im had talked to backed up Chris's story. So
10 beyond that, I don't know. There might have been more
11 discussions.
12 Q. Did the book sell better than you anticipated
13 prior to its publication?
15 for speculation.
16 A. You know, I always thought the book was going
17 to do well, because I believe it hits where I thought
18 it was going to hit with the public in general and
19 with the military in general.
20 Was the success very, very good? Yes, it
21 was. But did I of think or question in my mind that
22 Chris and Taya's story and the story of heroism in the
23 book was ever not going to be popular? No. I had the
24 movie in mind when I wrote the book.
25 Q. So then prior to the publication of the book,
34 ( Pages 130 t o 133)
Page 130
1 did you expect the book to become a New York Times
2 best seller?
3 A. I think it would be, if you will -- given my
4 experience in the industry, I think it would be
5 extremely egotistical of me to expect any certain
6 accolade to have taken place.
7 But by the same token, did I think it was
8 going to be very successful? Yes, I did.
9 Were there indications out there it was going
10 to be very successful? Yes, there were.
11 Prior to its publication there were already
12 indications that it was going to be very successful.
13 There was always reviews. There was already interest
14 in Hollywood. There was already people talking about
15 it and wanting to get the project in their camp as
16 much as seven months, eight months before the book was
17 ever published. So I had an expectation that it would
18 do very well.
20 as Exhibit 145, which is a document bates labeled CK
21 5262 through 5264.
22 And I'm going to ask if you recognize this
23 document.
24 MR. BORGER: Again, this is a confidential
25 exhibit.
Page 131
1 A. Do I recognize the document in this form?
2 No.
3 Do I recognize the email address? Yes.
4 So I guess that's as far as I can go, is do I
5 recognize the communication per se, it's about over a
6 year ago; so I have no reason to doubt that it's not
7 an accurate, if you will, copy of a communication that
8 may have taken place.
9 BY MR. ANDERSON:
10 Q. Now, towards the bottom here Miss Rosenblum
11 includes a link to Governor Ventura's Facebook page
12 and his response to Mr. Kyle's accusations.
13 Do you see that?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And did you ever go on Mr. Ventura's Facebook
16 page and look at his official response?
17 A. You know, I can't recall that I did. I've
18 seen stuff by Ventura on TV. Whether that was what he
19 actually put on his Facebook page as well, I don't
20 know, but I know Ventura was hitting all the news
21 channels and making comments to everybody he could.
22 Q. Now, in his Facebook page or at least the
23 link that Mrs. Rosenblum provided to you, Mr. Ventura
24 states that the event didn't take place at McP's as
25 Mr. Kyle had stated, correct?
Page 132
1 A. I see what's written here.
2 Q. And then the email above there you say it was
3 at Danny's, not McP's, correct, question mark; and
4 it's a question that you sent to Chris, right?
5 A. I think that would tell you two things. That
6 appears to be my thing, but it appears that not only
7 is my memory bad but that I'm fatally stupid
8 sometimes.
9 I mean looking back at the interviews and the
10 other information that I had, for example the
11 interview with J im at the Texas ranch, et cetera, et
12 cetera, for my recollection to be that bad is really
13 kind of -- I don't know -- an indictment of my own
14 self, I guess. So to the extent I have memory issues,
15 that's my own.
16 MR. SILVER: Objection, nonresponsive. Move
17 to strike.
18 Could you rephrase the question.
19 Could you read the question back and let's
20 specifically address it.
21 MR. ANDERSON: We can move on.
22 Q. Turning up, Chris Kyle disputes -- I'm
23 sorry -- Chris Kyle in response to your question says
24 it happened at McP's and that he ran to Danny's. Do
25 you see that?
Page 133
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And you write "figures." What do you mean by
3 that?
4 A. Where did I put "figures"?
5 Q. On the top, your email response.
6 A. The two bars are very close to each other.
7 So I recall the discussions regarding -- you know,
8 that had taken place now that maybe I didn't at five
9 o'clock on J anuary the 9th at the end of a day. I
10 don't recall what my day was that day, but maybe I'd
11 had other things going on.
12 That being said, the sequence of events would
13 make sense.
14 Q. Now, after you saw Governor Ventura's
15 response and denial of Mr. Kyle's story, did you ever
16 discuss with anyone other than Chris Kyle the
17 possibility that you just locate the TV video that
18 Chris Kyle said existed from two to three days after
19 the event?
20 MR. BORGER: Objection, mischaracterizes.
21 A. Was that specific issue discussed? No.
22 BY MR. ANDERSON:
23 Q. Did you ever discuss after discovering that
24 Ventura denied this story occurred the possibility of
25 finding any pictures of Governor Ventura at the BUD/S
35 ( Pages 134 t o 137)
Page 134
1 graduation ceremony that took place the next day?
2 A. No, not specifically.
3 Q. Has anyone ever told you that those pictures
4 exist?
5 A. I'm not aware that anyone ever has. If you
6 are telling me that they do, I certainly wouldn't
7 argue with it.
9 identification)
10 BY MR. ANDERSON:
12 157, which is a document that we received from
13 HarperCollins, and it appears to be an exchange of
14 emails between yourself and Miss Rosenblum.
15 Do you recognize this document?
16 A. I don't recognize this document, per se, but
17 it appears to be a copy OF an email that was sent to
18 Sharyn Rosenblum. I have no reason to believe that
19 it's a fake.
20 Q. Okay.
21 MR. BORGER: For the record, that is a
22 confidential document so designated by HarperCollins.
23 BY MR. ANDERSON:
24 Q. Now, midway down here there is an email from
25 yourself to Miss Rosenblum dated January 9, 2012, at
Page 135
1 8:57 p.m.
2 Do you see that?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. You also have copied Chris Kyle and Peter
5 Hubbard.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. You indicate "Sharyn, I would like to discuss
8 response to Ventura BS with you if possible before we
9 launch. Let's shut him down and move back to our
10 message."
11 Do you see that?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And did you in fact have that conversation
14 with Miss Rosenblum about the Ventura BS that you
15 refer to?
16 A. I think I did.
17 Q. What did you talk about?
18 A. Given the period of time here, I can't recall
19 specifically what Sharyn and I discussed, but I do
20 recall that after the news information had come out
21 that Kyle was disputing -- or excuse me -- that
22 Ventura was disputing this story that I had
23 discussions with at least two SEALs and possibly more
24 immediately, including individuals we discussed
25 earlier, and that they said look, he was there, that's
Page 136
1 what happened, Chris is telling truth.
2 As a result of that I felt that Mr. Ventura
3 and his response was completely inappropriate; and I
4 felt that he was trying to, you know -- to not be
5 accurate as to what had happened, and I felt as if we
6 should respond to defend Chris.
7 Q. And remind me again which two SEALs you're
8 referring to. Was it Andrew Paul?
9 A. Yes, Mr. Paul and I believe I talked to J J at
10 or about that time as well, and there may have been
11 some more.
12 Q. And I may have asked this before, and if I
13 did I apologize.
14 Have you reviewed Andrew Paul and John Jones'
15 transcripts from their depositions?
16 A. Nobody has given those to me. No, I have
17 not.
18 Q. Did you tell Miss Rosenblum that Andrew Paul
19 and John Jones had told you that they had actually
20 seen the incident firsthand?
21 A. I told -- as far as I recall, I would have
22 accurately discussed what was told to me by those
23 individuals.
24 And when you say the incident, you know,
25 Counsel, it's difficult for me to accurately define
Page 137
1 the incident sometimes, because I'm not sure which
2 portion of the incident you're talking about, the
3 beginning, the middle, the end, or the comments that
4 were made.
5 The portions that they told me was Ventura
6 was there, Ventura was, if you will, generally running
7 his mouth, that he was making comments that were
8 upsetting to them and upsetting to the families of
9 those who had died, and that Chris had had some
10 physical altercation thereafter.
11 I don't recall whether they saw the physical
12 altercations or not, but they certainly told me that
13 they saw Ventura, they saw Ventura making the comments
14 that had upset the families, and they felt it was very
15 inappropriate what Mr. Ventura had done.
17 identification)
18 BY MR. ANDERSON:
20 158, which is a document I received from HarperCollins
21 with a bates number of, I believe, 297.
22 Do you recognize this email chain?
23 A. Once again, I don't recognize it, per se, but
24 it appears to be my email address. I have no reason
25 to believe somebody has altered this. As a result I
36 ( Pages 138 t o 141)
Page 138
1 don't believe it's a fake. So it may well have been,
2 you know, part of the chain.
3 Q. Now turning to the top email --
4 MR. BORGER: For the record, again I will
5 note that this was produced under confidential
6 designation.
7 So I don't have to keep making this, just an
8 understanding, Mr. Anderson, that any exhibit that you
9 show to the witness that has been marked
10 "confidential," no matter who marked it confidential,
11 will continue to be confidential for purposes of this
12 transcript?
13 MR. ANDERSON: Yes, I agree to that.
14 Q. Now turning to the top email here which is an
15 email from yourself dated January 10, 2012, at 1:30
16 p.m. to Sharyn Rosenblum, Peter Hubbard, and Chris
17 Kyle, you indicate or you state that "when you have
18 the chance, please give me update on response/O'Reilly
19 interview of our witnesses."
20 Did you ever get that update?
21 A. Where is that at?
22 Q. I'm sorry, in the second paragraph of that
23 top email, and it's actually the second sentence of
24 the second paragraph.
25 A. Okay. I see it.
Page 139
1 Q. Did you ever get that update that you had
2 asked for?
3 A. I don't think I ever did. I might have from
4 Sharyn. She may have updated me. I don't recall.
5 Q. Now, you indicate in the third paragraph --
6 or rather you write -- I'm sorry -- while I know this
7 may be a, quote, distraction, end quote, from our
8 message. Why did you put quotations around
9 "distraction"?
10 A. Because I felt like it was a -- exactly that.
11 And Chris was concerned, I believe, based upon certain
12 emails that were sent back and forth or discussions
13 that were not attorney/client privileged that were
14 engaged in with others I believe that he was concerned
15 it was off our message. J im was concerned that it was
16 off our message. All of us were concerned that it was
17 off the message of the book, which was to support the
18 soldiers and to, if you will, point up the heroes in
19 Mark and Ryan.
20 And this whole J esse Ventura thing had taken
21 place, and it had taken on, it appeared to be, its
22 own, if you will, little subchapter.
23 Q. Leave that out just for a moment. I'm sorry,
24 this has already been labeled. I'm showing you what's
25 previously been labeled Exhibit 146, which is a
Page 140
1 document bates labeled CK 5327 and appears there is
2 another document behind it.
3 Now turning to the first page here, the email
4 at the top is an email from jdchester@aol. That's Jim
5 DeFelice, correct?
6 A. That's my understanding.
7 Q. And on that email on the top dated January
8 10, 2012, at 6:37 p.m., he sends an email to you,
9 Sharyn Rosenblum, and Chris Kyle.
10 A. Okay.
11 Q. And he writes "I think the story will lose
12 legs if McP goes on air. That's good, give you a
13 chance to get back to your actual message, which is
14 coming through despite this, uh, distraction."
15 Did you have any understanding as to why Jim
16 DeFelice didn't call it just a distraction, why he put
17 the word "uh" into his email to you?
18 MR. SILVER: Is your -- Counsel, I'm sorry, I
19 just want to make sure I understand the question. Is
20 the question does Mr. McEwen know why DeFelice put the
21 word "uh" there?
22 MR. ANDERSON: Yeah.
23 A. I have no idea why J im put "uh."
24 BY MR. ANDERSON:
25 Q. Now, is it -- Do you put quotes around the
Page 141
1 word "distraction" and does Mr. DeFelice call it a "uh
2 distraction," as opposed to just a "distraction"
3 because you both knew the Ventura publicity was
4 driving sales and publicity of the book?
5 A. I don't think so at all. That's not why I
6 did it. I don't know why J im did it, but I felt it
7 was actually a distraction. I felt that -- I didn't
8 know why Mr. Ventura wanted press, but apparently he
9 wanted to take press and get in the press for whatever
10 reason, akin to when he files DOT or, you know,
11 lawsuits against Department of Transportation and TSA.
12 I don't know what his motivation was, but it
13 certainly had nothing to do with our book, and it
14 certainly had nothing to do with the fact that there
15 was a chapter and a half where he wasn't even named or
16 I should say a page and a half where he wasn't even
17 named.
18 So my version was that it was a distraction
19 from our message, and the message of the book was
20 losing to some guy that wanted to get press. That's
21 what I understood it to mean.
22 Q. But you understood that the Chris Kyle story
23 about Ventura and all of the interviews that he did
24 talking about Ventura -- you understood that that
25 drove sales of the book, right?
37 ( Pages 142 t o 145)
Page 142
1 A. I did not understand that at all.
2 I'm okay right now. I don't need to take a
3 break.
4 MR. SILVER: You want to take a break?
5 THE WITNESS: No.
6 MR. BORGER: Before we get off on a another
7 topic, Mr. Anderson, the second page of what you
8 handed to Mr. McEwen as Exhibit 146 appears to have no
9 relationship to the first page of that document. I
10 think it may have just been a misstapling and perhaps
11 we can just remover that second page.
12 MR. ANDERSON: Yeah, you can remove the
13 second page. I think my assistant may have
14 accidentally attached that.
15 A. I'm concerned about that as well, because
16 that appears to be something from the Department of
17 Defense. I don't know why it's been produced, but
18 it's there now, but...
19 MR. SILVER: Take it off.
20 THE WITNESS: All right.
22 identification)
23 BY MR. ANDERSON:
25 159, which is a document bates labeled CK 5334 through
Page 143
1 5337 which appears to be a chain of communications,
2 the most current of which is an email from yourself to
3 Chris Kyle, Jim DeFelice, or -- I'm sorry -- from
4 Sharyn Rosenblum to yourself with a copy to Chris Kyle
5 and Jim DeFelice.
6 Now, I have a question about that, the email
7 right on the top of the first page of Exhibit 159,
8 this email from Ms. Rosenblum to yourself.
9 A. Okay.
10 Q. She says "Scott, you can go public with a
11 statement."
12 Did you in fact go public with a statement?
13 A. I don't recall if there was any statement,
14 per se, given. In fact, I don't recall that there
15 was. There may have been, and I apologize if I can't
16 specifically remember, but I don't recall that there
17 was.
18 The only, if you will, response that I recall
19 at or about that time was that here are the witnesses,
20 talk to them yourselves.
21 Q. Do you know whether or not a statement was
22 ever drafted?
23 A. I don't recall that I drafted a statement.
24 If I did it would have had to have passed by others,
25 so I don't recall that I did.
Page 144
1 Q. Now, turning down to the second paragraph
2 there, Ms. Rosenblum writes "also the Daily Caller is
3 willing to break it. See note from the producer
4 below."
5 And then the note seems to be from the
6 producer, and it says "any chance you could talk Chris
7 into giving us the exclusive on the witnesses, we'd
8 leave to break that story, Best, Matt."
9 Do you see that?
10 A. Talking the first page of 159?
11 Q. Yeah, right below that -- I can point it out
12 to you if you don't mind, Counsel?
13 MR. SILVER: Oh, no problem.
14 BY MR. ANDERSON:
15 Q. Right there and below.
16 A. I see it, yeah.
17 Q. There it says -- or Mr. Rosenblum writes that
18 the Daily Caller wants to break an exclusive story
19 with Chris Kyle's witnesses.
20 A. Okay.
21 Q. Do you know whether or not anyone gave the
22 Daily Caller authorization to break a story with Chris
23 Kyle's witnesses?
24 A. I'll be frank with you. It's possible that I
25 should know, but I don't recall the Daily Caller
Page 145
1 moniker, who that actually refers to. So it would be
2 difficult for me to say who exactly that is. Maybe I
3 should know that. But looking at this email, I can't
4 really figure it out. It may be somebody that's
5 affiliated with some show.
6 But I do recall that witness names were given
7 to news organizations by myself and others, people
8 that had witnessed the incident, that had seen what
9 happened.
11 identification)
12 BY MR. ANDERSON:
14 160, which is an email received from HarperCollins
15 with a bates number of 309, and it appears to be some
16 communications between, among others, yourself and
17 Peter Hubbard.
18 Do you recognize this document?
19 A. Once again, I don't recognize it, per se. It
20 appears to bear my email insignia, hence I have no
21 reason to believe it's a fake.
22 BY MR. ANDERSON:
23 Q. Now, you indicate in the fourth paragraph of
24 the email from yourself to Peter Hubbard dated January
25 11, 2012, at 10:06 a.m. -- you write in that paragraph
38 ( Pages 146 t o 149)
Page 146
1 "Tell me what's up with the O'Reilly/Ventura thing."
2 Do you see that?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Did Peter Hubbard tell you what was up with
5 the Chris Kyle/Ventura story?
6 A. I don't recall if Chris told me -- or I mean
7 -- excuse me -- if Peter told me at or about that time
8 what was up or even if Peter knew. So I can't for
9 sure say one way or the other. He may have.
10 Q. Now, you say in the next sentence "We have
11 enough now to really bury the SOB, and I really
12 believe someone must do it before we move on."
13 Do you see that?
14 A. I do.
15 Q. And "SOB" there you meant "son of a bitch,"
16 right?
17 A. I'm not sure what I was referring to. That
18 could be -- I don't know what I was referring to
19 there, but that could be it.
20 Q. Okay. And at least by this point in time you
21 didn't like Ventura, did you?
22 A. No, I think what I was upset about at that
23 point in time was that I felt that Chris was being
24 lied about, and I felt that there were lies being told
25 about Chris and what had happened, and I felt that
Page 147
1 Chris should be defended.
2 I felt he was being attacked, and I didn't
3 feel it was right, and I felt that the comments that
4 were being made in light of the things that had been
5 told to me by eyewitnesses were completely in opposite
6 to what was going on.
7 In other words, I had eyewitnesses telling me
8 that Ventura was there, Ventura was doing these
9 things, was running these people down, was upsetting
10 these families; and Ventura was denying that he was
11 even in the area. It didn't make any sense to me.
12 Q. Did any of the SEALs that you talked to ever
13 tell you that throughout the evening on the day they
14 claimed they were offended they took a number of
15 pictures with Governor Ventura?
16 A. No one ever told me that. Did it happen? I
17 don't know.
18 Q. But that would be inconsistent with what they
19 told you, wouldn't it, that they were offended by what
20 Ventura was doing and saying that evening?
21 A. I guess you would have to assume the ones
22 that took the pictures that it occurred prior to him
23 running his mouth.
24 I guess I would also have to assume that the
25 ones that took the pictures of him heard it. I don't
Page 148
1 know if those individuals that took the pictures had
2 heard it or not, and I don't know what point in time
3 in the evening, if they did in fact take pictures, you
4 know, that it took place. One could have preceded the
5 other.
6 Q. Now, you say -- first of all you refer to
7 eyewitnesses.
8 Now, when you say eyewitnesses, are you
9 referring to the people you talked about before, the
10 ones where you don't recall if they actually saw the
11 physical altercation?
12 A. Yes, among others.
13 Q. Okay. Who are the others?
14 A. I don't think all of the eyewitnesses or the
15 people that were at that bar that night that were
16 identified were actually noted here, but I could be
17 wrong. I mean I think there was a number of people
18 that were also there, in addition to those we've
19 discussed earlier.
20 Q. Okay. Do you recall any names of any other
21 specific individuals that were there that night that
22 we haven't talked about?
23 A. Ryan J ob.
24 Q. Did you ever talk with Ryan Job about the
25 alleged comments or physical altercation that night in
Page 149
1 October of 2006?
2 A. You bet I did.
3 Q. What did Mr. Job tell you?
4 A. Ryan J ob told me that he was there and his
5 story was completely consistent with Chris Kyle's and
6 that he had witnessed the events that had taken place,
7 that he had tried to be introduced and J esse Ventura
8 treated him badly and that he felt it was upsetting
9 what was going on, and he felt sorry for the families
10 that were there.
11 Q. Now, Ryan Job at that time was blind, right?
12 A. He was blind.
13 Q. Okay. So did he tell you that he heard the
14 physical altercation that allegedly occurred between
15 Ventura and Chris Kyle?
16 A. I can't recall specifically what Ryan told me
17 about the physical, if you will, interaction between
18 Chris and Ventura, but I do recall that Ryan's version
19 of what took place offended Ryan more than it offended
20 Chris.
21 Q. Did Ryan Job ever tell you specifically what
22 he claimed Ventura said that night that was offensive?
23 A. Specifically Ryan's story was that -- you
24 know, that my recollection is that there was things
25 being said about guys that he was upset about, that he
39 ( Pages 150 t o 153)
Page 150
1 didn't feel it was appropriate to be said in front of
2 the women that were there and/or appropriate to be
3 said at the wake for Mikey Monsoor.
4 As far as every word, you know, at the time,
5 all I can say is we didn't perceive this to be an
6 event that was one that needed to be recorded, per se,
7 at that juncture.
8 I mean Ryan was blind. Ryan was involved in
9 the battle of Ramadi. Ryan was shot with Chris. Ryan
10 should have died that day. He didn't. He was --
11 ultimately died in surgery, but it wasn't something we
12 focused on.
13 Q. Now, on that same paragraph there, you
14 indicate that what Ventura had said didn't sit well
15 with you; and you say that you wanted to essentially
16 expose Ventura through O'Reilly, in your words, as
17 long as O'Reilly gets the job done.
18 Do you see that?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Did you ever discuss with Peter Hubbard the
21 fact that HarperCollins is owned by the same company
22 that owns Fox News, Mr. O'Reilly's employer?
23 A. No, I wasn't aware of that.
24 Q. Did he ever express to you that he could
25 exercise any influence over how Mr. O'Reilly
Page 151
1 approached Governor Ventura or questioned him?
2 A. I have no reason to believe that's true.
3 Q. And when you say O'Reilly, you're referring
4 to Bill O'Reilly, right?
5 A. Yes, that's correct. I would be surprised if
6 anybody could affect O'Reilly, but that's another
7 question.
8 Q. Do you know whether or not Peter Hubbard ever
9 had a discussion with Mr. O'Reilly or anyone working
10 for or with Mr. O'Reilly about a follow-up
11 conversation or interview with Governor Ventura?
12 A. I'm sorry, could you repeat that one? I lost
13 it.
14 Q. Sure. You indicate that you were willing to
15 have O'Reilly have a conversation with Governor
16 Ventura, as long as O'Reilly got the job done?
17 A. Right.
18 Q. And my question is do you know whether or not
19 anyone had a conversation with O'Reilly or any of his
20 staff about a follow-up interview or getting the job
21 done with Governor Ventura?
22 A. I never had that conversation with Bill
23 O'Reilly. As I look through these documents, I
24 believe I had a conversation with potentially one of
25 his researchers of his show.
Page 152
1 I believe earlier when I told you that I
2 believe I had given names of certain individuals to
3 the shows, the witnesses including Mr. Paul and
4 others, that that would be the conversation that I was
5 talking about.
6 My reference to I'm willing to do it through
7 O'Reilly was merely in relationship to the belief that
8 O'Reilly would get to the bottom of this and to the
9 truth of this and to the truth of what Chris was
10 saying and that this incident had taken place, and
11 that I thought O'Reilly was a good enough inquisitor
12 and a good enough fact-finder to really get to the
13 bottom of what was being said wrong about Chris Kyle.
14 MR. SILVER: Excuse me, could we take a short
15 recess?
16 MR. ANDERSON: Yes.
18 the time is 1:24.
19 (Recess)
21 record. Here marks the beginning of tape number 3 in
22 the deposition of Scott McEwen. The time is 1:36 p.m.
24 identification)
25 BY MR. ANDERSON:
Page 153
2 160 [verbatim], which is a document that I received
3 from HarperCollins with the bates numbers 259 through
4 262, which is a series of emails back and forth, many
5 of which -- all of which you're not included on.
6 I direct your attention to the email on the
7 second page, the page bates labeled 260.
8 A. Which one, the top one?
9 Q. Yeah, the top one. This is an email from
10 yourself to Chris Kyle, Sharyn Rosenblum, Peter
11 Hubbard, and Jim DeFelice dated January 11, 2012, at
12 10:45 a.m.
13 Do you see that email?
14 A. Yes, I see that.
15 Q. Now, you say in the second paragraph "Subject
16 to confirmation with Chris today, my thoughts are as
17 follows." And then you say "prepare a written
18 statement and response which indicates that multiple
19 witnesses to the events have come forward and
20 confirmed Chris Kyle's side of the story."
21 And then you say "many of those have already
22 agreed to go public, have done so already, and have
23 been interviewed by various news shows."
24 And then you say number 2, get the statement
25 out to O'Reilly, post the same on Facebook, et cetera.
40 ( Pages 154 t o 157)
Page 154
1 Do you see that?
2 A. I see it.
3 Q. Were those two steps ever taken?
4 A. I don't recall, as I told you -- as I said
5 earlier, Counsel, that we ever did the written
6 statement part of it. I just don't recall a written
7 statement being given to O'Reilly or anyone else,
8 frankly, with respect to that subject.
9 I recall that there's some emails here that
10 also took place where Chris had said, look, let's get
11 back on message. Chris was getting a little upset
12 that the message of the book was being over-ran, if
13 you will, or appeared to be by this whole J esse
14 Ventura thing; and Chris kind of kind of wanted to put
15 the wheels or, I should say, the brakes on this whole
16 thing and get back to our message in the book, which
17 was to tell the story of the SEAL teams and the valor
18 and Mark and Ryan and everything that had taken place
19 in the war.
20 So I recall that Chris had a concern at or
21 about this time that was expressed to a number of
22 people, and I haven't seen the email, but I recall the
23 email vaguely in the back of my mind that included a
24 message from another individual that knew Chris
25 personally, and I want to say Brittany was her name
Page 155
1 because Brittany is a very interesting and very nice
2 person, and Brittany had sent a story that was really
3 the story of this book and about the good things that
4 Chris had done and had saved people's lives; and I
5 think that was at or about this time.
6 So to the extent that I recall a statement
7 being made that was related to that O'Reilly or that
8 Ventura thing, I don't recall.
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. It may have happened, though.
11 Q. Do you know whether or not anything was
12 posted on Facebook to respond to Governor Ventura's
13 denial that the story had occurred?
14 A. May have been. I don't know. I don't
15 recall. I don't think so.
17 identification)
18 BY MR. ANDERSON:
20 161, which is a document that I received from
21 HarperCollins with bates number 317 through 319.
22 MR. SILVER: Counsel, I think this is 162.
23 THE WITNESS: It is on here. So we probably
24 ought to refer to it as such.
25 MR. ANDERSON: 162 it is.
Page 156
1 THE WITNESS: You marked that 161.
2 MR. ANDERSON: All right. I apologize. J ust
3 for the record, then, the document that I just
4 described there, the three-page document is actually
5 labeled Exhibit 162. Thanks, Counsel.
6 MR. BORGER: So there is no 161.
7 MR. SILVER: There is a 161.
8 MR. ANDERSON: I'm missing one too.
9 MR. BORGER: No, you're right.
10 MR. ANDERSON: Got it. We're I think all on
11 the same page now.
12 Q. All right. Now I have in front of you a
13 document labeled Exhibit 162. Again, it's a document
14 from HarperCollins, bates numbered 317 through 319,
15 which is a chain of emails, many of which you are
16 copied on with the exception of the most recent two
17 emails.
18 A. The most recent two, that being --
19 Q. The most recent two are on page 1.
20 A. Oh, okay. All right.
21 Q. There are two emails back and forth with
22 Sharyn Rosenblum and Peter Hubbard, but before then
23 you are included in the chain.
24 On the first page here, turning to the email
25 from yourself to Sharyn Rosenblum, Peter Hubbard, with
Page 157
1 a copy to Chris Kyle, you write Chris does not want to
2 continue the back and forth statements with Ventura.
3 He requests that you contact the witnesses to the
4 incident, whose contact information has been provided,
5 including the bar owner, and put it to rest.
6 Then above that is an email from Peter
7 Hubbard to Sharyn Rosenblum that you weren't copied on
8 wherein Peter Hubbard said shouldn't Scott do this.
9 Did Peter Hubbard or Sharyn Rosenblum ever
10 ask you after this January 11 email to follow up with
11 all of the witnesses on the list?
12 A. You know, this is consistent with what I just
13 testified to, exactly this email right here. This is
14 what I was talking about relative to Chris's comments
15 that he just -- he didn't want to engage in this
16 colloquy, this discussion, if you will, with Ventura.
17 He felt it was detracting from the book and
18 detracting from the purpose of the book and what we
19 were trying to do with the book with the warriors, et
20 cetera.
21 And did they ever ask me to talk to somebody?
22 I'm sorry?
23 Q. Sure. In previous emails or at least in
24 emails that I've seen, you provided names and
25 telephone numbers of a number of supposed witnesses to
41 ( Pages 158 t o 161)
Page 158
1 the event, and you provided those names to Sharyn
2 Rosenblum and Peter Hubbard. Correct?
3 A. I object to your characterization of them as
4 supposed, but I did provide witness numbers, yes.
5 Q. Okay. And did they ever ask you to follow up
6 and communicate with all of those individuals
7 regarding the Ventura incident?
8 A. Did they ever ask me to?
9 Q. Yeah. And by they I mean Sharyn Rosenblum or
10 Peter Hubbard.
11 A. At or about J anuary 11th they may not have
12 asked me to. I know that there was discussions that
13 took place prior to J anuary 11th and possibly
14 subsequent to J anuary 11th, where that was discussed
15 between Peter, Sharyn, and I relative to putting
16 together the witnesses to the Ventura incident.
17 So whether they asked me to follow up at this
18 time or not, I cannot recall whether they specifically
19 did, but I was still talking to people, whatever -- it
20 didn't really matter to me what Peter and what Sharyn
21 said at that juncture because, you know, while Peter
22 and Sharyn are involved from their side, I felt Chris
23 Kyle was being attacked, and that was my
24 responsibility to help to defend him.
25 Q. And then turning up to the email on the top
Page 159
1 from Sharyn Rosenblum to Peter Hubbard, she writes to
2 Peter Hubbard no, we talked, basically we're letting
3 this die until it gets -- I presume she means revived
4 somehow.
5 A. I never saw those emails.
6 Q. No, and I understand that. But my question
7 is do you recall that communication with Sharyn
8 Rosenblum.
9 A. I recall that everybody discussed in or about
10 that period of time that the news cycle relating to
11 J esse Ventura and the, if you will, distraction,
12 however you want to characterize it, of this story
13 would go away, hopefully that it wasn't something we
14 wanted, that we desired or wanted for the book, but
15 that, you know, we were just hoping that this whole
16 story, if you will, of Ventura and his getting on
17 J ones and all these other conspiracy theory shows, et
18 cetera, would go away, because it wasn't the message
19 of heroism patriotism, and SEAL team honor that we
20 wanted to portray.
21 And so we were concerned that it was taking
22 us off track and off story and Chris off story as to
23 what this book was really about, and that's really
24 what that statement right there is.
25 Sharyn said no, we talked, basically we're
Page 160
1 letting this die.
2 She didn't want anybody to go out there
3 anymore. We had given them our witnesses. We'd given
4 them our evidence. We'd given them what they wanted
5 to go back and say, hey, these guys are talking the
6 truth and they're telling the truth.
7 And they interviewed the witnesses, I
8 understand, and that's what we hoped would just end
9 it.
11 identification)
12 MR. ANDERSON: Let's make sure I get it right
13 this time. I believe this is 163, right?
14 THE REPORTER: Yes.
15 BY MR. ANDERSON:
17 163, which is a document I received from HarperCollins
18 with a bates number 293, which is a series of emails
19 back and forth.
20 Now, this is after Exhibit 162, and here in
21 the email chain the second from the bottom is an email
22 from Sharyn Rosenblum to yourself, Chris Kyle, with a
23 copy to Jim DeFelice and Peter Hubbard.
24 Now, you testified a moment ago that you told
25 Sharyn that you wanted the Ventura story to go away.
Page 161
1 Then it appears a few hours later in this
2 January 11, 2012, email at 4:23 p.m. she does just the
3 opposite and she says "I'm sending Dan the names of
4 Chris's contacts once I've spoken to them and gotten
5 their okay."
6 And then down two lines she says "Chris, we
7 are really shutting this down."
8 Can you --
9 MR. BORGER: Object to the characterization
10 of the question.
11 BY MR. ANDERSON:
12 Q. Can you explain for me the discrepancy
13 between letting it go and Sharyn Rosenblum shortly
14 thereafter providing names and contact information to
15 Fox News?
16 A. Yes, I can. First of all, there is no
17 discrepancy. I think your characterization of this
18 email is inaccurate. And not to argue with you,
19 because I don't want to argue with you, but I'll tell
20 you right now what this is. This is Sharyn saying to
21 me, Scott, giving me her assurance that she would give
22 the witnesses that I gave her the names and assured me
23 they would be given and they would be contacted by
24 O'Reilly because I did not want Chris's name to be
25 sullied, drug through the dirt, whatever you want to
42 ( Pages 162 t o 165)
Page 162
1 call it, without us responding in like kind. That's
2 exactly what this is. That's exactly what I was
3 talking about.
4 I told Sharyn, "Sharyn, you want me to not do
5 it, then you better tell me you're going to do it,
6 because I'm not going to let Chris take this shot
7 without us going back and saying, look, we got the
8 guys that were there that saw this event happen."
9 And that's exactly what Sharyn told me in
10 that email before, and that's exactly what happened.
11 Q. Now, turning up an email here, there is a
12 email here from Peter Hubbard to Sharyn Rosenblum
13 dated January 11, 2012, at 4:40 p.m. And you weren't
14 copied on this, but Peter Hubbard writes "This will be
15 a nice little bonus hit for us."
16 Did Peter Hubbard or Sharyn Rosenblum
17 articulate to you that providing names of Chris's
18 contacts that could supposedly confirm the Ventura
19 story would be additional publicity that would be
20 helpful to Chris Kyle in selling his book?
21 MR. BORGER: Object to the characterization.
22 A. I'm sorry, did Peter Hubbard tell me that?
23 BY MR. ANDERSON:
24 Q. Did Peter Hubbard or Sharyn Rosenblum tell
25 you providing Chris Kyle's contacts related to the
Page 163
1 Ventura incident would help gain the book additional
2 publicity?
3 A. No. And if she had told me that, it would
4 have been something that I would not have liked to
5 have heard, and the reason being is because Chris, in
6 my estimation, did not want this type of publicity;
7 and we told Sharyn and Peter that the reason we were
8 providing them the names of people that were SEAL team
9 guys, some of them I believe were active duty that
10 said we'll talk to you but you can't disclose who we
11 are until we have certain clearances and certain
12 things from the government.
13 But they were that concerned that they wanted
14 to talk to these people and say look, I know, I was
15 there. And so it wasn't a flippant comment by us; and
16 if Sharyn had said we were doing this for publicity
17 reasons, particularly given the names we were given to
18 these people, some of whom were not names you just
19 pass around. These are guys that are active duty
20 guys, guys that could be potentially exposed. I would
21 have objected to it.
22 That wasn't the purpose at least from my
23 perspective, and I don't believe it was the purpose
24 from HarperCollins' perspective at any time.
25 Q. And then Bill O'Reilly in fact did mention
Page 164
1 Chris Kyle and Ventura and Chris Kyle's book a couple
2 of days later, did he not?
3 A. O'Reilly may have done so. I don't know.
4 The dates that O'Reilly ran this story, I'm aware that
5 he ran it on one occasion -- no, two occasions. I'm
6 not sure of the exact dates.
7 Q. Okay.
9 identification)
10 BY MR. ANDERSON:
12 164, which is an email from I received and that
13 apparently Mr. Borger, Chris Kyle's counsel also
14 received, and it's an email dated -- I'm sorry -- a
15 letter dated January 14th, 2013, from your counsel Zvi
16 Silver.
17 Have you seen this document before?
18 A. I believe I have.
19 Q. And who prepared the spreadsheet attached to
20 the two-page letter? Do you know whether or not that
21 was your counsel or someone else?
22 A. I'm not aware of whether it was Hershy or
23 not.
24 Q. Okay. Now, in the letter, just to summarize
25 it, Mr. Silver indicates to me that all of the
Page 165
1 documents that you had that were relevant and
2 nonobjectionable had already been produced by other
3 parties.
4 A. All right.
5 Q. Did your counsel receive copies of all the
6 documents that had been previously produced by
7 Mr. Kyle or other parties?
8 A. I'm not aware of that.
9 Q. Did you provide copies of the documents
10 referenced in the attached spreadsheet to your
11 counsel?
12 A. I did not, that I'm aware of. In fact, I
13 looked through some of these documents in here, and
14 they include documents I don't have. I think I told
15 you earlier that certain documents were sent to
16 Mr. DeFelice or that I was not in possession of.
17 And there's a series of documents here that I
18 look at and I say, you know, all the documents that I
19 had was given up, and they may encompass this list,
20 but there's stuff on here that are -- that was more
21 than what I had. In other words, they were not in my
22 possession, custody, or control.
23 And specifically I'm talking about those
24 series of revisions that you and I discussed earlier
25 with J ames DeFelice that were dated 5-02-2011, all the
43 ( Pages 166 t o 169)
Page 166
1 revisions of the -- of the -- I believe this would be
2 the J esse Ventura, if you will, subparagraph. I don't
3 recall it. I may have had those at some point in
4 time. I certainly don't have them now. I certainly
5 don't have them in my possession.
6 Q. Did you make any effort to locate any emails
7 related to the book or --
8 A. I did. I made efforts to locate that which I
9 could, and my email system only goes back for a
10 certain period of time, and I did not have a lot of
11 emails and certainly didn't have any emails that were
12 outside the ones that were already noted in here.
13 Q. Were you with Mr. Kyle at his first Opie &
14 Anthony interview in which he identified Governor
15 Ventura as Scuff Face?
16 A. I was not.
17 Q. Sitting here today, do you know who it was
18 that called into the Opie & Anthony show and asked
19 Chris Kyle if -- essentially if Scruff Face was Jesse
20 Ventura?
21 A. I've often wondered that. I have no idea.
22 Q. Did you ever discuss the first Opie & Anthony
23 interview show with Rosenblum, Miss Rosenblum or Peter
24 Hubbard and Jim DeFelice?
25 A. I'm relatively confident that I did. I don't
Page 167
1 recall when it would have been, but I know that I was
2 talking to Sharyn and at or about that time. I don't
3 know that I had talked to J im about it, but I'm
4 relatively confident that I'd spoken to both Peter and
5 Sharyn at or about that period of time.
6 Q. And were you pleased how that first Opie &
7 Anthony interview went?
8 A. I don't know that "pleased" would be the
9 right word. I wasn't displeased. I wasn't upset.
10 There was no, if you will, Ventura calling Chris a
11 liar at that juncture; so I don't think there was any
12 reason to be upset by the thing.
13 But, you know, later on when Ventura started
14 calling Chris a liar and suing him, you know, I guess
15 there was reason to be upset, but at that juncture I
16 wasn't displeased by the interview.
17 Q. Prior to this second Opie & Anthony interview
18 with Chris Kyle, at that point in time you understood
19 that Governor Ventura had denied the story as told in
20 Chris Kyle's book, correct?
21 A. Prior to the second interview with Opie &
22 Anthony, was I aware that Ventura had denied. A
23 couple of assumptions you have to make there. Number
24 one, I don't know that I ever heard the second Opie &
25 Anthony interview. I don't even know when it took
Page 168
1 place.
2 So you may be correct, Counsel, that it had
3 taken place or was taking place, but I don't think I
4 ever heard that interview. I'm trusting you as being
5 correct that it actually took place, but I don't -- I
6 never heard it.
7 I never even heard of Opie & Anthony,
8 frankly, before that whole first interview. I guess
9 they are an East Coast type radio broadcasters.
10 Q. Are you aware that Chris Kyle is has signed a
11 contract for a second book?
12 A. I am not aware of what the contract is or
13 that he has. I was not involved in any of that. I
14 have heard that he was intending to, that he was
15 intending to do something. I'm not sure that there's
16 a final agreement penned at this juncture. There may
17 well be.
18 Q. Did you receive any of the proceeds of Chris
19 Kyle's appearance on the television show Stars Earn
20 Stripes?
21 A. I never received anything from that, nor did
22 I seek anything from that, and I'm not sure if Chris
23 got anything from that, but maybe he did.
24 Q. Now, I understand that at certain points in
25 time Chris Kyle has said that he's going to donate all
Page 169
1 the proceeds of the book to charity.
2 Have you ever heard him say that?
3 A. I've heard him say that.
4 Q. Do you know whether or not he's donated a
5 dollar to charity that he was received from the book?
6 A. I'm not in charge of Chris's finances or his
7 schedule for doing that, but I will tell you this. If
8 Chris Kyle says he's going to do it, he will. He's
9 one of the most truthful guys I've ever met in my
10 life. If he says he's going to get something done, he
11 will do it. So I have no doubt in my mind that that
12 will happen.
13 Furthermore, if there was any reason for him
14 not to have about done it at this juncture, it's
15 probably as a result of your client trying to seek
16 those moneys and leave him in the middle.
17 So I guess your client's lawsuit may have
18 some bearing upon Chris's ability to do that. But
19 you'd have to discuss that with him. I don't know.
20 Q. Now, outside of the context of your business
21 relationship with Mr. Kyle, do you or have you
22 frequently socialized with him?
23 A. When Chris was living in San Diego I would do
24 things with him and his wife, yes.
25 Q. Did you and do you consider Chris Kyle a
44 ( Pages 170 t o 173)
Page 170
1 friend?
2 A. I consider Chris Kyle a friend.
3 Q. Okay. I tell you what. Why don't we take a
4 short break. I'm nearing an end here. So if you just
5 give me a few minutes to pull together my thoughts.
7 the time 1:59 p.m.
8 (Recess)
11 MR. ANDERSON: We're back on the record here.
12 This is Court Anderson, counsel for Governor Ventura.
13 I have no further questions at this time,
14 although Mr. Borger, counsel for Chris Kyle, has
15 indicated to me that he has some questions; and I may
16 have a follow-up question or two following
17 Mr. Borger's inquiry. But at this time I'm going to
18 turn it over to him.
19 EXAMINATION
20 BY MR. BORGER:
21 Q. Mr. McEwen, I am John Borger. I represent
22 Chris Kyle. I have just a very few questions for you.
23 How did you first learn of Chris Kyle's
24 encounter with Jesse Ventura? Did you hear about it
25 from Chris Kyle or from someone else?
Page 171
1 A. No, I heard about it from other sources. It
2 could have been Don Zub. It could have been friends
3 of Zub. But it was definitely from SEAL team guys;
4 and I heard the story from various sources, I believe,
5 at that point in time.
6 Q. So you heard it from multiple people?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Did the various people who were telling you
9 this story sometimes differ on the details of the
10 story?
11 A. Yes, they did. I mean as one would expect, I
12 believe, with any alteration.
13 Q. So this didn't strike you as anything
14 unusual?
15 A. No.
16 Q. From the time you first heard the story of
17 Chris Kyle's encounter with Jesse Ventura until today,
18 as you sit here across the table, have you ever had
19 any reason to doubt that such an encounter occurred?
20 A. Absolutely no.
21 Q. Have you encountered any bad reactions to the
22 book from supporters of Jesse Ventura?
23 A. Yes, I have. I've been contacted via
24 telephone, on a lot of occasions threatened. People
25 would say, you know, Ventura, Ventura is telling the
Page 172
1 truth, things of this nature during these phone calls,
2 sometimes you're going to get yours, things of that
3 nature.
4 There have been threats against myself, as
5 well as against Chris Kyle, from people I believe to
6 be J esse Ventura supporters.
7 Q. When did these communications begin?
8 A. I can't say exactly when they began, other
9 than the fact that once the Ventura story came out I
10 would say roughly within two weeks of that period of
11 time, so it would have been somewhere in or about ten
12 days, maybe even less, sometime in or about that
13 middle part of J anuary.
14 In addition, there were situations where
15 Chris was doing book signings roughly later that
16 month, and during those book signings there were
17 threats that were made that some events may take place
18 during the book signings, which precipitated Chris to
19 get people to help him out, if you will, to watch, to
20 be able to look up while he was signing books, because
21 he was afraid that -- not afraid but concerned because
22 his wife was with him that someone might try and take
23 a shot at him.
24 Q. When you say take a shot, are you talking
25 about firearms or something else?
Page 173
1 A. Yes, physically get shot. Chris wouldn't
2 worry about somebody punching him or jumping on him.
3 His concern would be somebody shooting him.
4 Q. What was it about the tenor of the
5 communications that you received that led to this
6 concern about the possibility of being shot with a
7 weapon?
8 A. Well, I mean during some of the conversations
9 that took place with me is you're going to get paid
10 back for the things that were said about J esse, things
11 of that nature. I have no idea how these people got
12 my cell phone number, but these were the tenor of the
13 conversations that took place.
14 I know that Chris received multiple phone
15 calls from multiple places where death threats and
16 threats were made against him and his family. We were
17 very concerned that something might take place at the
18 book signings.
19 I personally was attending a few of them, and
20 we asked for guys from the SEAL teams to come out and
21 help us, because we were concerned somebody was going
22 to shoot him.
23 Q. And did other members of the SEAL teams come
24 out to help?
25 A. Yes, they did.
45 ( Pages 174 t o 177)
Page 174
1 Q. Did you take any other steps in response to
2 the communications you were receiving of this nature?
3 A. I have video cameras at my house. I
4 increased the gate codes at my house. I instructed my
5 children to be concerned and not to let any strangers,
6 if anyone tried to enter the house to immediately call
7 the police, to not speak to anyone at the gates,
8 general security procedures such as that, yes.
9 Q. Okay.
10 A. And my office I instructed people that -- to
11 be concerned if anyone came in they did not know at my
12 office, to be concerned about that being potentially a
13 threat to the people there.
14 MR. BORGER: Thank you, Mr. McEwen. I have
15 no further questions.
16 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
17 FURTHER EXAMINATION
18 BY MR. ANDERSON:
19 Q. I just have a couple of follow-up questions.
20 Mr. Borger asked you a moment ago how you
21 first learned about the Chris Kyle/Jesse Ventura
22 alleged encounter, and you had indicated that you
23 first heard it from other sources, not Chris Kyle,
24 correct?
25 A. I believe that to be correct.
Page 175
1 Q. And did you ever hear from any of these other
2 sources, other than Chris Kyle, any of the specific
3 statements that Governor Ventura allegedly made that
4 night that were offensive?
5 A. Yes. I believe they imparted information
6 akin to what I testified to earlier, that he was
7 saying bad things about the troops or he was saying
8 negative things about the American war efforts, that
9 he was saying things that were offensive to the
10 families there, things of that nature.
11 So as far as the specifics of what
12 individuals he was running down, other than George
13 Bush and/or guys that were involved in the war effort,
14 I can't recall specifically what they said.
15 Q. And do you recall any specifics as to what
16 these sources told you Governor Ventura said as far as
17 running down the troops?
18 A. Well, I mean I think it's difficult for me to
19 describe everything over time. But, once again, in
20 response thereto, what I discussed earlier was that
21 the statements were sufficiently offensive to the
22 individuals that imparted the story to me that they
23 believed that Ventura deserved to get hit, that they
24 believed that Chris Kyle was in the right, and as far
25 as the SEAL team code is concerned Chris deserved to
Page 176
1 do and J esse deserved to basically be in a situation
2 like he was as a result of saying the things in front
3 of the dead families, family members, and things of
4 that nature. That's the impression that I got.
5 Q. Now, did any of these SEALs indicate to you
6 what their opinions of Jesse Ventura were?
7 A. You know, I don't recall that any of them had
8 an opinion on J esse, per se, Ventura, per se. I don't
9 know what their thoughts were of them, per se.
10 So I didn't perceive that their statements
11 were being made because they disliked Ventura, per se,
12 other than this -- possibly as a result of this
13 incident, in other words did they harbor any ill
14 feelings forward Ventura or anything of that nature.
15 I didn't perceive that to be that way, that
16 they had some pre-existing issues, but I could have
17 been wrong. I mean I don't know.
18 Q. But did any of these individuals, these SEALs
19 that you spoke to, communicate that after hearing this
20 Jesse Ventura story related to Chris Kyle that they
21 thought less of Governor Ventura as a result?
22 A. I don't think so. I never really heard that
23 they felt less of Ventura. I don't know if they know
24 what state Ventura was in, sober, nonsober. I don't
25 know.
Page 177
1 I know that the SEALs are a very forgiving
2 group amongst themselves, but if you do something in
3 front of a family then they have issues with it.
4 Now, will they give you a pass at times, I
5 think the SEALs will. But, you know, it's not
6 uncommon for these guys to get into a disagreement and
7 the next day shake hands.
8 MR. ANDERSON: I have nothing further.
9 Mr. Borger?
10 MR. BORGER: None.
11 MR. SILVER: I have nothing further.
12 MR. ANDERSON: All right.
13 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
14 MR. SILVER: Wait. This concludes the
15 deposition. Do you guys want to make any stipulations
16 on the record as to how to handle the deposition
17 transcript?
18 MR. ANDERSON: No. You can read and sign,
19 but I don't think we need to. We already have a
20 protective order in place.
21 MR. BORGER: You have the -- I think you
22 should have a copy of the protective order that
23 accompanied the subpoena which gives you certain
24 rights regarding designating confidential areas.
25 THE WITNESS: No, I don't believe we did
46 ( Pages 178 t o 181)
Page 178
1 receive a copy of any protective order.
2 MR. SILVER: J ust so you know, I received
3 something this morning I signed and sent to
4 Mr. Borger's office.
5 But in terms of like where the original -- I
6 know in San Diego, California, when we finish
7 depositions we relieve the court reporter of her
8 duties to hold the transcript, the original.
9 You guys don't do that in Minnesota?
10 MR. ANDERSON: Generally what we do is the
11 deponent has a right to read and sign and fill out the
12 errata sheet and so forth within 30 days, but it's up
13 to the deponent whether or not they want to do that.
14 But as far as who maintains the transcript, I'm not
15 aware of any rule, per se, as to who maintains it.
16 MR. BORGER: I think that Merrill has been
17 taking -- taking all the depositions and has a certain
18 protocol in place as to sealing up the original and
19 maintaining custody. So you may want to talk with
20 your other offices and just be sure that that's all
21 done in the same way.
22 MR. SILVER: Is someone going to send me a
23 copy of the deposition so he can review it?
24 MR. ANDERSON: The court reporter will.
25 MR. SILVER: Okay. So the court reporter
Page 179
1 will send me a copy of the transcript. From when I
2 receive the transcript Mr. McEwen will have 30 days to
3 make any comments or changes. If he doesn't make any
4 comments or changes to the errata sheet within 30
5 days, everything in there will be deemed accurate as
6 stated?
7 MR. ANDERSON: Correct.
8 MR. BORGER: And I believe you have 14 days
9 from receipt of the transcript to designate any
10 portions of this that you regard as confidential, and
11 the parties have the same rights.
12 MR. ANDERSON: And if for some reason you
13 can't locate that protective order, just call me and
14 I'll have my assistant send it right over.
15 MR. SILVER: Thank you so much.
16 THE VIDEO OPERATOR: This concludes the
17 deposition of Scott McEwen, Volume I. The total
18 number of tapes used was three. The original
19 videotapes will be retained by Merrill Legal
20 Solutions.
21 Going off the record, the time is 2:20 p.m.
22 THE REPORTER:
23 MR. ANDERSON: I just want a standard order,
24 which is an electronic copy sync'd into the video that
25 we can load up into Livenote.
Page 180
1 MR. BORGER: The same, sync'ed.
2 (Whereupon at 2:21 p.m. the deposition was
3 concluded)
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Page 181
1 DECLARATION UNDER PENALTY OF PERJ URY
2
3 I, SCOTT McEWEN, the witness herein,
4 declare under penalty of perjury that I have read the
5 foregoing in its entirety and that the testimony
6 contained herein, as corrected by me, is a true and
7 correct transcription of the testimony elicited at the
8 time and place set forth herein.
9 Dated this _____ day of_________________,
10 20___, at ________________, ________________________.
11 (City) (State)
12
13
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17
18
19 _____________________________
20 SCOTT McEWEN
21
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47 ( Page 182)
Page 182
1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
2
3 I, KARLA MEYER BAEZ, Certified Shorthand
4 Reporter No. 4506 for the State of California, do
5 hereby certify:
6 That prior to being examined, the witness
7 named in the foregoing deposition was duly sworn to
8 testify the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
9 the truth;
10 That said deposition was taken down by me in
11 shorthand at the time and place therein named and
12 thereafter reduced by me to typewritten form and that
13 the same is a true, correct, and complete transcript
14 of said proceedings.
15 Before completion of the deposition, review
16 of the transcript {X} was { } was not requested. If
17 requested, any changes made by the deponent (and
18 provided to the reporter) during the period allowed,
19 are appended hereto.
20 I further certify that I am not interested in
21 the outcome of the action.
22 Witness my hand this 24th day of J anuary,
23 2013.
24 ________________________________
25 KARLA MEYER BAEZ, CSR NO. 4506

EXHIBIT 3

4/5/01 STTRMSP 01B Page 1
2013 Thomson Reuters. No Claim to Orig. US Gov. Works.

4/5/01 Star Trib. (Minneapolis-St. Paul) 01B
2001 WLNR 10312703

Star Tribune: Newspaper of the Twin Cities (Minneapolis, MN)
Copyright 2001 Star Tribune: Newspaper of the Twin Cities

April 5, 2001

Section: NEWS

Ventura defines real hunting as ` hunting man'

Patricia Lopez Baden; Staff Writer

Saying that "until you've hunted man you haven't hunted yet," Gov. J esse Ventura on Tuesday defended his creden-
tials for setting state conservation policy in response to a Star Tribune columnist's comments last weekend.

The governor repeatedly referred to his combat experience in an angry reaction to a Sunday column by outdoors
writer Dennis Anderson that criticized Ventura and DNR Commissioner Allen Garber for what Anderson said was
inadequate support for conservation.

"Try not ridiculing me as an ignorant fool that doesn't know the outdoors at all and doesn't know a thing about
Minnesota wildlife," Ventura said in a meeting with Anderson that included Garber, Finance Commissioner Pam
Wheelock and communications director J ohn Wodele.

Garber "has two tours to Vietnam and I have one as a Navy SEAL and then 17 months in Southeast Asia," Ventura
said.

"And I'll just tell you this: Until you've hunted man, you haven't hunted yet," Ventura said. "Because you need to hunt
something that can shoot back at you to really classify yourself as a hunter. You need to understand the feeling of what
it's like to go into the field and know your opposition can take you out. Not just go out there and shoot Bambi."

Wodele said Wednesday that "the governor was offended that [Anderson] made assumptions without asking him
whether he was a hunter or had any experience hunting in his past."

Anderson said Ventura's remarks on hunting were "a complete surprise to me. I never mentioned anything about
hunting, hunters or how one defines hunting."

Wodele said Ventura felt obliged to defend his commissioner, a former FBI agent and law enforcement official who
has been criticized by outdoors writers for his lack of experience in natural resources management.

Anderson's column dealt with a bill by Rep. Mark Holsten, R-Stillwater, and Sen. Bob Lessard, IP-International Falls,
that would provide $115 million in additional natural resources funding, including $50 million for fish and game
projects.

That $50 million, however, would be under the auspices of an 11-member commission and not under the DNR - a
condition that has drawn serious opposition from Garber, who has described the bill as "deceptive and overly re-
strictive."

Lessard is a recent convert to Ventura's Independence Party and the only member of the party in the Legislature. He
is, however, also a hunting and fishing enthusiast who often has been at odds with the DNR under previous adminis-
trations.

Ventura told Anderson that he supports the proposal, "but I'm not supportive of bringing in a band of good old boys to
allocate where the money goes."

Anderson did make pointed criticisms of Garber and Ventura in his column, saying that Ventura didn't understand the
importance of the state's natural resources and that Garber was widely believed to be "clumsy at public relations."
Anderson also wrote that Garber's lack of experience in resource management "undercuts his ability to do his job and
his credibility with DNR constituents."

A transcript of Tuesday's audiotaped meeting shows a vigorous back-and-forth between Ventura and Anderson that
included this exchange:

Anderson: "Have you hunted deer?"

Ventura: "No."

Anderson: "That's my point then, I guess."

Ventura: "My point is the deer can't shoot back. Have you hunted man?"

Anderson: "No."

Ventura: "Then you have no basis to talk from, pal. Because hunting a deer, big deal. Big deal."

Ventura was a Navy SEAL during Vietnam, and during the meeting made repeated references to his military service
and that of Garber, whom Ventura said had done "two tours to Vietnam."

Ventura's combat experience has been unclear, and Ventura himself has refused to answer specific questions. "What I
did there is between me and the man upstairs," he has said in interviews.

During Tuesday's meeting, Ventura complained to Anderson that he wasn't interested in getting credit for positions
he'd taken on conservation, but "I just don't want to be discredited either."

Throughout the interview, Ventura repeatedly referred to "hunting man," 13 times in all, including a reference to the
fact that he can no longer hunt deer.

"J ust because . . . that there's no thrill for me to go out and shoot Bambi . . . When you're trained in combat and you
hunt the ultimate foe, well, it becomes very difficult and, I can't speak for Al [Garber], but for me, I can't draw down on
Bambi. I can't shoot him," Ventura said.

.

- Patricia Lopez Baden is at pbaden@startribune.com.

.

Excerpts from Ventura-Anderson meeting

.

Ventura: I took great offense to your article on Sunday, very big offense, insinuating that [DNR] Commissioner
[Alan] Garber and I . . . can't be trusted with DNR money with the things that you write about. And also the insinuation
that somehow I don't know about wildlife, hunting and fishing. . . .

Anderson: I didn't say you didn't know anything about hunting.

Ventura: You insinuate it all the time. I read it in your articles all the time.

.

Ventura: . . . You ever done military service?

Anderson: No.

Ventura: You haven't? Well, Commissioner Garber and I have. He has two tours to Vietnam and I have one as a Navy
SEAL and then 17 months in Southeast Asia and I'll just tell you this: Until you hunted man, you haven't hunted yet,
because you need to hunt something that can shoot back at you to really classify yourself as a hunter. You need to
understand the feeling of what it's like to go into the field and know that your opposition can take you out. Not just go
out there and shoot Bambi. Or go out into the field and shoot pheasants and things like that.

Anderson: This doesn't have anything to do with conservation.

Ventura: No, but it has to do with being a sportsman, in my opinion.

Anderson: The military has something to do with conservation?

Ventura: Yeah, yeah, 'cause it's called hunting.

.

Ventura: You also judge [my interest in the outdoors] by the commissioner [of the DNR] I've named. You've taken
shots at him, and you've insinuated that somehow this man is not reputable enough to handle. . . .

Anderson: I didn't say that.

Ventura: Do I need to pull this article out from Sunday?

Anderson: Let's see it.

Ventura: Fine. You can beat around the bush all you want. I trust this man's integrity completely. . . .

---- INDEX REFERENCES ---

COMPANY: MORRIS NEWSPAPER CORPORATION OF KANSAS; STAR PHARMACEUTICALS INC;
MACRODENT SA; MEDIA NORTHSTAR INC; TRIBUNE

REGION: (Indo China (1IN61); Vietnam (1VI02); Minnesota (1MI53); Southeast Asia (1SO64); North America
(1NO39); Far East (1FA27); Eastern Asia (1EA61); Asia (1AS61); Americas (1AM92); USA (1US73))

Language: EN

OTHER INDEXING: (DNR; FBI; IP INTERNATIONAL FALLS; J ESSE VENTURA; MINNESOTA; NAVY;
STAR; TRIBUNE; VENTURA; VENTURA: YEAH) (Allen Garber; Anderson; Bob Lessard; Dennis Anderson;
Excerpts; Garber; J ohn Wodele; Lessard; Mark Holsten; Pam Wheelock; Patricia Lopez Baden; Wodele)

KEYWORDS: jesse ventura (quote); (hunting)

Word Count: 1253
4/5/01 STTRMSP 01B
END OF DOCUMENT


EXHIBIT 4

4/14/01 STTRMSP 01A Page 1
4/14/01 Star Trib. (Minneapolis-St. Paul) 01A
2001 WLNR 10314788


April 14, 2001

Section: NEWS

57 percent approve of how Ventura is doing his job
That's 14-point drop from J anuary's near-record high

Robert Whereatt; Staff Writer

Gov. J esse Ventura's job-approval rating has fallen from a near-record high to its second-lowest level since he became
governor more than two years ago, according to the latest Star Tribune Minnesota Poll.

Fifty-seven percent of Minnesotans approve of the way Ventura is handling his job, down 14 points since J anuary,
and only slightly higher than the 54 percent rating he received in October 1999.

Thirty-eight percent disapprove of his job performance, according to the poll.

Both times Ventura's job-approval rating has dropped into the 50s, it has been after he made what some considered
outrageous statements.

The latest Minnesota Poll coincided with the Star Tribune's publication of an interview in which Ventura defined real
hunting as hunting humans. Interviewing for the poll began the same day Ventura's comments were published.

"Until you've hunted man, you haven't hunted yet, because you need to hunt something that can shoot back at you to
really classify yourself as a hunter," Ventura said in a lengthy exchange with Star Tribune outdoors columnist Dennis
Anderson.

Ventura's job-approval numbers bottomed out in October 1999, after publication of a Playboy magazine interview in
which he said "organized religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people." Later, the governor said he meant
only some organized religion. He also joked in the interview that he would like to be reincarnated as a brassiere.

His disapproval rating of 38 percent was virtually identical to his October 1999, disapproval rating of 37 percent,
which until now had been his worst.

To be sure, the drop could also be related to other factors.

Ventura is in the midst of a bruising legislative session in which critics have taken him to task for allegedly short-
changing K-12 and higher education in his proposed two-year budget. In addition, part of his "Big Plan" for substan-
tially reducing property taxes includes extending the state sales tax to most services, also a controversial proposal.

There could be another factor: Minnesotans are considerably more troubled about the direction of the state and nation
than they were in J anuary, the poll found. Since J anuary, the right-direction measure dropped 10 points - to 50 percent
- for the nation and 13 points - to 64 percent - for the state.

And while Ventura's 14-point drop is significant, it comes from an approval rating that was among the highest the
Minnesota Poll has ever measured for a Minnesota governor. His 71 percent rating was only two points shy of the
record high rating he posted in J uly 1999.

.

Wodele defends

J ohn Wodele, communications director for Ventura, said the falling approval ratings are understandable and not
necessarily attributable to the governor's propensity to shoot from the lip.

"Given the pounding he's been getting from the special interest groups over his budget, I think it's remarkable that he
has maintained a 57 percent approval rating," said Wodele.

"This indicates to me that the governor's legislative agenda has the support of a majority of Minnesotans, those
hard-working silent citizens who can't take off work to demonstrate at the Capitol."

It was unfortunate that the poll was taken when the governor's comments on hunting were in the news, said Wodele,
but "my guess is that it had a minimal effect on the [ratings] outcome."

If the governor did not have a core of Minnesotans who support his agenda, the poll figures would have been lower,
Wodele said.

"The governor has always said the people will always approve of him if he governs well despite his provocative
nature. This is an affirmation of that," he said.

Ventura's current job rating puts him on a par with his predecessor, Gov. Arne Carlson, at about the same point of
their first terms. In March 1993, 59 percent approved of the way Carlson was doing his job and 32 percent disap-
proved.

Barbara Callahan, 54, of St. Paul, was among the Minnesota Poll respondents speaking favorably about Ventura.

"People may not like his style, but he accomplishes things. His adversarial style works well sometimes, because it gets
people talking about things. It works. People either like J esse or they hate him," said Callahan, a paralegal.

"With other governors, people didn't listen. With J esse, people may not like it, but they hear it."

The public is engaged in what state government is doing because of Ventura, Callahan said.

Kate Vlach, a marketing coordinator from Plymouth, was among the respondents who voiced disapproval of Ventura.

"There's a couple things he's done that seem to be popular with people, things like the rebate and reducing the [motor
vehicle] license tabs. But overall I'm very disappointed and embarrassed by him. I don't think he understands the
concept of public service. I think he's in J esse service," said Vlach.

Ventura's remarks about hunting man were "inappropriate," she said, but her disappointment goes beyond that.

"There doesn't seem to be any dignity in the office. His whining about his wife's business and saying that's why he had
to to do the XFL [Football League announcing]. I thought that was really tacky." The governor has said his wife had to
give up her job of training and showing horses because of her unpaid duties as First Lady.

Vlach said her disapproval with Ventura goes beyond style to budget decisions, particularly funding for K-12 edu-
cation.

"You have schools that can't pay their heating bill, and can't pay their teachers. . . . Perhaps because he did not pursue
a higher education, he doesn't appreciate it," she said.

.

Image dips

Besides a lower job-approval rating, Ventura's image - what people think about him as a person - dropped in the latest
poll, which surveyed 829 adults statewide April 5-11.

Currently, half of Minnesotans have a favorable image of him, down from 62 percent in J anuary. Thirty-eight percent
have an unfavorable image, up from 28 percent in J anuary and matching the percentage recorded in October 1999.

The drop in his job-approval ratings is reflected in all demographic and geographic groups examined by the poll,
although a majority in each of those groups continues to approve of the way he's doing his job.

The gender gap that was evident in previous polls - with men giving him higher marks than did women - has virtually
disappeared. Currently, 59 percent of men approve of his job performance, compared with 56 percent of women.

.

- Robert Whereatt is at rwhereatt@startribune.com.

.

How the Minnesota Poll was conducted

Results are based on the Star Tribune Minnesota Poll conducted April 5-11. A random-digit-dial telephone sample of
829 adult Minnesotans was interviewed.

Results for the poll were weighted for geography, age, gender and education to make sure the sample reflected the
most recent census estimates available for Minnesota's adult population. Weighting also accounted for household size
- interviewers selected one respondent randomly from each household - and the number of phone lines going into a
household.

For results based on 829 interviews, one can be 95 percent confident that error because of sampling will be no more
than plus or minus 3.4 percentage points. Margins of sampling error for smaller groups, such as Democrats or Re-
publicans, are larger.

Results may be influenced by random error and by such things as question wording and order, and the practical
difficulties of conducting any poll, which include the effect of news events on public opinion. The governor's com-
ments about hunting came during the interviewing period. Market Solutions Group of Minneapolis conducted the
interviews for the Star Tribune. News Research Director Rob Daves directs the Minnesota Poll. Readers can e-mail
comments about the poll to mnpoll@startribune.com.

Findings also are available by appointment at the Star Tribune, 425 Portland Av. S., Minneapolis. More information
about the poll is available on the Internet at http://www.startribune.com/poll.

.

Tracking Ventura's job-approval rating

"Do you approve or disapprove of the way J esse Ventura is handling his job as governor?"

Approve

- J an. 1999: 72%

- Apr. 2001: 57%

Disapprove

- J an. 1999: 9%

- Apr. 2001: 38%

No opinion

- J an. 1999: 19%

- Apr. 2001: 5%

Source: Star Tribune Minnesota Polls since 1999. Most recent poll is with 829 adults statewide April 5-11. Margin of
sampling error: no greater than 3.4 percentage points at a 95 percent confidence level.

.

.

Ventura gender gap wanes

Right from the start of his campaign for governor, men were much more apt to support J esse Ventura, a trend that
continued with job-approval ratings after he was elected. The last two Minnesota Polls have shown increasingly
smaller differences between men's and women's approval ratings. Since J anuary, Ventura also has lost approval from
partisans, especially DFLers.

.<PRE>

J ob-approval rating

J anuary April

Men Women Difference Men Women Difference

Approve 74% 67% 7 59% 56% 3

Disapprove 21 27 6 36 40 4

No opinion 5 6 1 5 4 1

.

... and so does partisan support

Democrats Republicans

J anuary April Difference J anuary April Difference

Approve 76% 57% -19 64% 55% -9

Disapprove 22 39 17 30 42 12

No opinion 2 4 2 6 3 -3

.</PRE>

Source: Star Tribune Minnesota Polls in J anuary and April. The most recent poll is with 829 adults statewide April
5-11. Margin of sampling error: no greater than 3.4 percentage points, plus or minus, at a 95 percent confidence level.


COMPANY: STAR TRIBUNE CO; MACRODENT SA

NEWS SUBJ ECT: (Local Taxing Authorities (1LO66); Taxation (1TA10); Sales & Marketing (1MA51); Market
Research (1MA99); Business Management (1BU42); Surveys & Polls (1SU08))

INDUSTRY: (Accounting, Consulting & Legal Services (1AC73))

REGION: (Minnesota (1MI53); North America (1NO39); Americas (1AM92); USA (1US73))

Language: EN

OTHER INDEXING: (DEMOCRATS; FOOTBALL LEAGUE; J ESSE; J ESSE VENTURA; MARKET SOLU-
TIONS GROUP; MINNESOTA; MINNESOTA POLL; MINNESOTA POLLS; MINNESOTANS; PLAYBOY;
SOURCE: STAR TRIBUNE MINNESOTA POLLS; STAR TRIBUNE; STAR TRIBUNE MINNESOTA POLL;
STAR TRIBUNE MINNESOTA POLLS; TRACKING VENTURA; TRIBUNE MINNESOTA POLL; VENTURA;
XFL) (Arne Carlson; Barbara Callahan; Callahan; Carlson; Dennis Anderson; Fifty; Findings; Gov; J ohn Wodele;
Kate Vlach; Readers; Rob Daves; Robert Whereatt; Thirty; Vlach; Wodele; Women)

KEYWORDS: (poll); (government)

Word Count: 1878
4/14/01 STTRMSP 01A
END OF DOCUMENT


EXHIBIT 5
Resources:
April 5, 2001
Mpls Star Tribune
Transcript of " hunting man" interview
April 5, 2001
Mpls Star Tribune
Initial news story about interview
April 7, 2001
Mpls Star Tribune
Ventura apologizes to hunters
December 2, 1999
San Diego Reader
Jesse " The Great Pretender" Ventura
December 21, 1999
Cursor.org
Cursor researches Ventura's Navy SEA
quotes
HomeOfHeroes.com
Ribbon Awards of the U.S. Navy
How to publicly post a DD 214
US Navy
How to file a FOIA request with the U.S
Navy
UDT/SEAL Operations in Vietnam, by
T.L. Bosiljevac
Navy SEAL Web site index
Navy SEALs Vietnam memorial page
Jesse's Dangerous Game
A former Navy SEAL commander questions Ventura's
claim that he hunted man in Vietnam.
by Bill Salisbury
POSTED MAY 8, 2001--- MINNEAPOLIS-- A few weeks before the revelation that ex-Navy
SEAL Bob Kerrey was involved in the death of civilians during the Vietnam War, Minnesota
Governor J esse Ventura had ignited a controversy of his own by boasting in a
confrontational interview with a Minneapolis Star Tribune columnist that he had "hunted
man" as a Navy SEAL in Vietnam.
Initial press coverage focused on how Ventura's
assertion that "until you hunted man, you haven't hunted
yet," had riled many Minnesotans who hunt only non-
human game. But more importantly, Ventura's claim
invites a revisiting of long-standing questions about his
military service, as it raises new ones about what the
governor did, or didn't do, in Vietnam.
In December, 1999, I wrote an article for the San Diego
Reader titled, " Jesse (The Great Pretender) Ventura."
The article challenged Ventura's claim that as J ames
J anos he'd been a SEAL in Vietnam. I wrote that J anos
had not been a SEAL but merely a member of
Underwater Demolition Team (UDT) 12 who had been
stationed in the Philippines and not Vietnam.
The article relied on several interviews with real SEALS
who had been in Nam and UDT men who had served
with J anos. I also drew on my 16 years as a SEAL, that
included a combat tour as officer-in-charge of SEAL
Team 1, Detachment Golf, duty as executive officer of
SEAL Team 2 during the war, and a stint as commanding
officer of UDT 11 after the war.
Before going to press I asked Ventura's spokesman,
J ohn Wodele, for the governor's comment. "We will have
no comment on something so obviously false," said
Wodele in an indignant, imperial tone. (In fairness to
Wodele, I didn't tell him of my own SEAL and UDT
credentials, but left him to assume I was just some West
Coast "jackal" whining and snapping at his boss's heels.)
Ventura continued to hide behind Wodele and his stone
wall when I appeared on the Fox News Channel program
"Hannity and Colmes" a few days after the Reader article
appeared. When Fox asked Ventura to respond, Wodele
wrote: "The only thing we have ever said is that the UDT
and SEAL designation is interchangeable and we don't
have any further comment."
2/7/2013 http://cursor.org/venturawatch/dangerous_game.htm
Exposing fake Navy SEALs:
Night Scribe
Cyber Seals Wall of Shame
Cursor home
Why would Ventura - who loves to run his mouth about
having been a SEAL - suddenly clam up when I publicly
stated in so many words that he was, as my grandma
used to say, full of more crap than a Christmas turkey?
The governor could have silenced me and his growing
pack of critics by simply producing his discharge
certificate from active duty, called a DD 214. If he'd been
one of America's roughest, toughest, meanest mothers,
then that document would list the
qualification for all the world to see. And
if the SEAL/UDT designation were truly
interchangeable, the form would reflect
that. But I know it doesn't without even
looking at it. The UDT designation, or
Navy Enlisted Classification (NEC) - was
5321/22 and the SEAL designation was
5326.
How do I know this? Because as the
executive officer of SEAL Team 2, I
recommended men for the 5326
designation after they had completed a
six month probationary period. Many of
these men came from UDTs as
5321/22s. As commanding officer of
UDT 11, I awarded the 5321/22 designation to frogmen after their probationary period.
Interchangeable designation my ass.
If J esse were a SEAL, his DD 214 would also list at least one "Presidential Unit Citation for
service Nam." How do I know this? Because of my duty with both SEAL Teams during the
war. Every SEAL who served with Teams 1 and 2 received at least one of the five
Presidential Unit Citations awarded those units. UDTs
received none. So c'mon, J esse, show us your DD 214.
You can even do that without breaking your vow never to
talk about what you did as a "SEAL" in Nam.
But no fair relying on public pronouncements by your old
toadies in the Teams, or a scrap of paper signed by some
fawning Navy bureaucrat 30 years later, saying it's okay
for you to call yourself a SEAL because UDTs were
decommissioned in 1983. After all, you wouldn't want to be
dismissed as a "Paper SEAL" would you? I mean it's okay
for some pencil-necked sandcrab like George Plimpton to
joke about being a "Paper Tiger" instead of a true major
leaguer, but aren't you claiming to be the real deal: an ass-
kicking, name-taking Navy SEAL?
Of course if you're unwilling to share your DD 214, then your pet jackals in the Twin Cities
might want to fire off a Freedom of Information Act request to the Navy. Or they could
request a copy of the UDT 12 Command History for the years you were with that team
(1971- 1974). They could read the "History" to see if you got any ink for combat exploits.
Hell. if you truly saw combat with Team 12 - faced Charley or Clyde at a given time in a
given place with the burnt smell of expended rounds in the air - that would be good enough
for me. I wouldn't quibble over whether you were a Frog or a SEAL and you could lay this
controversy to rest - give it a double tap, an ear shot.
Another good resource is the Commander Naval Forces Vietnam monthly combat
summaries that cover your time in the Western Pacific. Or the UDT 12 Cruise Book that
chronicled your team's deployments. (SEALS didn't have time for such books.) You could
even share your copy with them. One of your former commanding officers at UDT 12
shared his copy with me and said you'd never been in combat. Said he didn't remember
you too well at all except as a guy who was good
for morale because you had a great sense of
humor. Your former CO was with me in Nam
before he took over Team 12. He doesn't think
the terms UDT and SEAL were interchangeable.
Then there's your UDT buddy, Gary "Bones"
Bonnelli, who was one of a very few UDT 12
frogmen stationed in Nam, at a place near the
Nam Can Forest called Solid Anchor. Bonnelli
says you weren't in Nam with him, but that you
were floating around the South China Sea on a
ship with the Amphibious Ready Group, making
ports of call in such high-threat areas as Hong
Kong, Singapore, and Bangkok.
And sure enough, when I read your old CO's
Cruise Book I saw Bonnelli and others listed as
having been in 'Nam, but all I found about you
was that you'd played on the UDT 12 basketball
team in the Philippines, at the naval station in
Subic Bay.
Anyone wanting to avoid the hassle of prying
documents from the Navy
should get T.L. Bosiljevac's
book, UDT/SEAL Operations
in Vietnam, (Ivy, 1990.)
Bosiljevac, a SEAL officer,
reviewed command histories,
cruise books, and monthly
operational summaries to
compile a chronological
narrative of every UDT and
SEAL combat action in Nam.
The Navy-sponsored research
was part of his master's thesis
at the Naval Postgraduate
School.
I've also learned from men
who served with you in UDT
12 that you deployed to the
Western Pacific (WESTPAC)
during the war from February to October 1971. I checked UDT/SEAL Operations in
Vietnam for that period and here's what I found. UDT 12 is mentioned only twice: "UDT 12
relieved UDT 13 in February as the WESTPAC - deployed underwater demolition team
(page 155); "(A four-man SEAL detachment) spent 8 August to 22 September with UDT 12
aboard the USS Grayback to assist in training (page 160)." As you know, the Grayback
was a submarine that operated out of Subic Bay.
While you were in WESTPAC as a frogman, here's a sampling of what SEALS were up to
in Nam:
Raided a VC financial meeting on 9 February, killing four guerrillas and capturing
four others.
Conducted a daylight helo raid on 13 February, killing three VC and destroying a

twenty-man rest area.
Attacked an enemy base on 20 February, killing one Chinese propaganda officer

and wounding five others.
Killed eight VC and captured numerous weapons on 24 February.

Killed five VC and captured five others on 7 March.
Killed two VC and captured three others along with a VC flag and kilo of
documents on 15 March.
Killed 3 VC aboard four sampans on 12 May.

Killed five VC attending a political meeting on 7 July.
Killed 8 VC in hand-to-hand combat on 23 August.
Killed 2 VC guarding a weapons cache on 28 August.
SEALs interchangeable with UDTs? I think not.
But SEALS didn't always win the manhunting contests while you were shooting hoops in
the Philippines and pulling liberty in Hong Kong: a SEAL squad transiting the Ham Luong
Canal on 28 February took heavy casualties when a B-40 rocket slammed into their boat;
Lieutenant Michael Collins of SEAL Team 1 died on 4 March after suffering multiple
fragmentation wounds from a VC ambush (more about Mike later); Petty Officer Lester
Moe of SEAL Team 1 was killed walking point on 19 March when he stepped on a
"Bouncing Betty" mine. And so it went J esse, for SEALS but not frogmen during your
deployment.
Of course maybe Bosiljevac somehow missed your manhunting ops. Tell you what - as one
old SEAL/UDT manhunter to another - let's share a war story or
two and give those who dream of being warriors a glimpse of the
glamour. Here are two "no shitters"- as your fellow celeb "Demo"
Dick Marcinko might put it - that have stayed with me for a long
time.
Many SEALS like to talk about the first man they killed. I
sometimes do that. He was a VC courier sliding along the Upper
Dong Tam River in a sampan beneath overhanging branches to
avoid detection from the air. I brain-shot him with a CAR 15 - a
weapon that looks like a toy. I was close enough to see blood
and bone spray when the round struck.
But I usually don't talk about the first man I killed, J esse. I usually
talk about the first man I watched die. His name was Bobby Neal
and he worked for me when I ran three SEAL platoons out of
Nha Be 30 miles below Saigon on the border of a 500-square
mile swamp called the Rung Sat. Neal took a lot longer to die than the courier. Neal was 18
when he got hit: he'd enlisted at 17 on what you may remember the Navy called a "kiddie
cruise."
A Chicom grenade that exploded in the well-deck of a Mike boat perforated Neal's stomach
lining. After the dustoff helo took him to Binh Hoa, I thought he would make it. I continued
to think so until my third visit. On that visit I saw that they'd moved him away from the other
wounded in the Quonset hut to a small room behind a partition. He was alone in the room
except for a nurse. As I approached Neal's bed the nurse cautioned me that he was very
weak. "He's a guarded case," she whispered, "he has peritonitis."
At the time I didn't know what peritonitis meant, J esse, even though I was 26 - which was
getting up there for a manhunter in that war or perhaps in any war.
I've run the Neal movie through my brain so often that the setting and dialogue remain as
clear now as on the day I stood by his bed, looking at his pale, slender body covered from
the waist down by a sheet. Neal's eyes were closed, his head turned so that I could see the
crescent on his scalp where they had shaved his thick black hair to get at the shrapnel. His
arm stretched out to receive the trickle of clear fluid coming through a tube from a bottle
above the bed.
"Neal," I said softly, "Neal."
He opened his eyes and turned his head toward me. His eyes were dark and seemed too
large for his face, like the eyes of a child in a Betanzos painting.
"Oh, what? Oh, I thought you were someone else."
"It's me. How you feeling?"
"Not bad, sir. But I can't move. I mean I got so many tubes in me that all I can move is this
arm and my head. Used to have a tube up my nose and couldn't even move my head
then."
With his free hand he grasped the sheet covering him and pulled it farther down. "See all
those tubes?," he asked. A T-shaped bandage stretched across the boy's stomach and
down his groin; two plastic tubes extended from beneath the bandage to a pair of bottles
placed on a low table next to the bed.
"Well, those tubes are so I can shit and piss, see. Then there's another tube beneath the
bandage to drain pus outa my gut. They change the bandage a lot and Christ does it stink.
Like something rotten."
The boy began to breathe heavily as if unused to the effort of so much talking.
I said, "You look good, Bobby. J ust take it easy. Don't talk so much if it's a strain."
"Oh no, no. I like to talk."
"I brought you some letters. I'll put them on the table and you can read them later, or have
the nurse read them to you."
"Thank you, sir. Who are they from?"
"Two are from your parents."
"My parents?"
"Yes, from Virginia."
"Oh, there must be some mistake, sir. You see my parents are in Saigon. My mother visits
me every day."
"I see. How are your parents?"
"Very fine, sir. Except my mom doesn't like being so far away from me. It's a long drive
from Saigon."
"Yes, it is."
The boy began to speak again but coughed, then gagged on some sputum. He coughed
the sputum onto his chin. I untied the olive-drab bandana from around my neck and used it
to wipe away the sputum.
The nurse heard the gagging and came to the bed. I said, "I have to go, Bobby. I'll be back
soon." The boy, exhausted from coughing, nodded and closed his eyes.
As I walked away with the nurse I asked, "What's it look like?"
"Bad," she replied. "But he's in no pain."
Bobby Neal died shortly after I left, J esse, and then I knew what peritonitis meant.
This next story ought to interest you because it's about a SEAL who was a collegiate
swimmer. I understand that you were a pretty fair swimmer when you were a young man.
Mike Collins swam for the Naval Academy. They named the Coronado Amphibious Base
pool for him after he got churched in the Delta near Ben Tre. I wasn't there, but your UDT
12 skipper was on the helo pad at Binh Thuy when they brought Mike in. He'd taken a lot of
shrapnel in the face and head. Your old skipper - I'll call him J ake - told me about it one
night around a camp fire in Baja where we'd gone to fish a Pacific estuary called estero
coyote. We'd had a good day: we were eating fresh-caught flounder and washing it down
with a little "J ack in the Bottle." Nobody around but us and the coyotes whining and
snapping just beyond our fire as they searched for fish entrails we'd thrown them.
"Mike was one of my platoon leaders," J ake said. "He was going up river at night with his
platoon on the way to an ambush site when the boat began taking fire from the banks. The
boat cleared the kill zone without a scratch. But they decided, hey, lets go back and take
those fuckers on. They'd no sooner reentered the kill zone when either a B40 rocket or rifle
grenade struck and blasted shrapnel across the boat - killed or wounded every soul on
board."
"I sent out a SEAL relief force in helos that managed to suppress the VC fire and medevac
the dead and wounded. I was on the helo pad when they landed. Collins came off first and
even though you could see he was dead - he was just drenched in blood from his head
wounds - the docs tried to save him."
"They started pounding on his chest trying to get the pump started. They kept at it for at
least 10 minutes. Mike's arms and legs were flopping around and I thought maybe he was
alive after all. But the movement was just from all the pounding."
"Yet they saved a guy named DaCroce. I don't know how. J esus, he looked awful. So
much blood. He had so much blood on him you couldn't see the features of his face. The
blood was just caked on - just crusted and caked."
In the fireglow I could see J ake was crying, not sobbing, but just quietly crying with the
tears tracking down through the fish flakes caught in his four-day whiskers. Then he
composed himself and we talked about something else while the coyotes began to yap,
growl, and fight among themselves in the darkness.
Several years before J ake told me his story, I had attended a ceremony in Coronado,
California, when the Navy named the Amphibious Base pool for Mike. I thought about the
last time I was with him. We were chasing Southern snap through the bars of Phenix City,
Alabama. Mike had just finished jump school at Fort Benning and I was a new Ranger
eager to live my life in danger. We got along. We were jocks and we were SEALS.
I sat behind his mother at the pool dedication on that sun-filled day in Coronado. I heard
her weeping for a son ten years dead. I concentrated on the 50 meter lanes stretching
before us, imagining Mike powering into the far wall, exploding out of a flip turn, pulling
hard toward us. Then all I saw was empty water.
So there it is, J esse. Now it's your turn to inspire would-be warriors, those who would spare
Bambi and be hunters like us, of the most dangerous game.
Cursor home

EXHIBIT 6

5/9/01 Star Trib. (Minneapolis-St. Paul) 06B
2001 WLNR 10294726


May 9, 2001

Section: NEWS

Ventura hunting comments prompt SEAL attack

Dane Smith; Staff Writer

Gov. J esse Ventura's recent statements that he has "hunted man" have provoked a second published attack from a
former Navy SEAL commander who says Ventura continues to mislead the public about his Vietnam War record.

Bill Salisbury, a San Diego attorney and retired Navy officer, asserts in an online publication called "cursor.org" that
Ventura never "hunted man" in Vietnam and probably never set foot in the country. Salisbury said a review of some
military documents and interviews with two members of Ventura's military unit turn up no evidence that Ventura saw
combat.

In December 1999, Salisbury wrote a critique for the San Diego Reader of the governor's references to having been a
Navy SEAL, pointing out that Ventura was a member of an Underwater Demolition Team, which merged with the
SEALs after Ventura left the service.

In the latest broadside, Salisbury says, "C'mon, J esse, show us your DD214 [a standard military discharge certificate
showing a record of service]."

J ohn Wodele, Ventura's chief spokesman, issued what has become a standard disclaimer on the subject.

"The governor chooses not to give specifics about his wartime involvement and that's his right," Wodele said.
"Governor Ventura is in the middle of a very, very important legislative session and what the governor did in his
military service is not relevant. . . . It will never be relevant to his career as an elected official."

The man-hunting comments, made by Ventura during a meeting with Star Tribune outdoors columnist Dennis An-
derson in April, were part of a broader counterattack against criticisms of his natural resources policy.

The Salisbury attack isn't the first leveled at Ventura since he talked about "hunting man."

Ed Lotterman, a St. Paul economist and Army veteran who served with an airborne unit in Vietnam, wrote in a St.
Paul Pioneer Press opinion-page article recently that "the people who had the most intense combat experience seldom
talk about it at all in public. They virtually never flaunt it as the governor does.

"The blowhards who stand around bars telling war stories usually are people who spent most of their time in some
safe rear area, or never got in country at all," Lotterman wrote.

.

- Dane Smith is at rdsmith@startribune.com.


COMPANY: STAR TRIBUNE CO; MACRODENT SA

REGION: (Indo China (1IN61); Vietnam (1VI02); Southeast Asia (1SO64); Far East (1FA27); Eastern Asia (1EA61);
Asia (1AS61))

Language: EN

OTHER INDEXING: (ARMY; J ESSE; J ESSE VENTURA; NAVY; NAVY SEAL; SEAL; STAR TRIBUNE;
UNDERWATER DEMOLITION TEAM; VENTURA) (Bill Salisbury; Dane Smith; Dennis Anderson; Ed Lotter-
man; Gov; J ohn Wodele; Lotterman; Paul Pioneer; Salisbury; Ventura; Wodele)

KEYWORDS: (military)

Word Count: 451
5/9/01 STTRMSP 06B
END OF DOCUMENT

EXHIBIT 7
Jesse Ventura, a/k/a James G. Janos, Civil No. 12-472 RHK/AJB
Plaintiff,
vs. DECLARATION OF LAURA
DESHAZO
Taya Kyle, as Executor ofthe Estate of
Chris Kyle,
Defendant.
I, Laura deShazo, hereby declare as follows:
l. I make this declaration upon personal knowledge.
2. In 2006, I traveled from my home in Salt Lake City, Utah, to San Diego,
California, to attend the memorial service for Michael Monsoor. Michael Monsoor was a
very good friend of my family. After attending the memorial service and a small-group
ceremony afterwards, I and some others went to McP' s for the wake.
3. The wake at McP's was a large party, celebrating the life of Michael
Monsoor. A lot of active and retired SEALS were at the wake. I did not know all of the
people there.
4. Fairly early in the evening, perhaps around 8 or 9 p.m., I recognized Jesse
V cntura at McP' s. My sister and I and a friend had our picture taken with Ventura at that
time. A true and correct copy of that picture is attached to this declaration.
5. Later in the evening, hours after the picture was taken, I observed an
altercation between Jesse Ventura and other persons at MeP's. I did not see or hear how
FBD0000017
the altercation started. It did not last long. It was a typical bar fight, not a huge bar fight. I
am a small person, and I got further away from the altercation fairly quickly.
6. During the altercation, I saw Ventura punched by a white male, around six
feet tall, with light brownish hair.
7. I do not believe that l had met Chris Kyle before the Michael Monsoor
memorial service. I met many people, including many members of the SEAL community,
that day and it is possible that I met Chris Kyle at the memorial service or at the wake. I
did not have any contact with Chris Kyle after the Michael Monsoor wake.
8. I cannot say for certain that Chris Kyle was the person who punched
Ventura, but I definitely saw Ventura being punched at McP's late in the evening ofthe
Michael Monsoor wake.
9. I have never met Taya Kyle. I did not have any contact at all with Taya
Kyle until mid-October 2013, shortly after I learned that what I saw happen at McP's
might have some significance in this lawsuit.
Dated: ,,2.i, 2013
""""
2
FBD0000018

EXHIBIT 8
o , o , SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA Astronomical Applications Dept.
Location: W117 08, N32 45 Rise and Set for the Sun for 2006 U. S. Naval Observatory
Washington, DC 20392-5420
Pacific Standard Time
Jan. Feb. Mar. Apr. May June July Aug. Sept. Oct. Nov. Dec.
Day Rise Set Rise Set Rise Set Rise Set Rise Set Rise Set Rise Set Rise Set Rise Set Rise Set Rise Set Rise Set
h m h m h m h m h m h m h m h m h m h m h m h m h m h m h m h m h m h m h m h m h m h m h m h m
01 0651 1654 0643 1721 0616 1746 0537 1809 0501 1830 0441 1852 0444 1901 0503 1847 0523 1813 0543 1733 0606 1658 0633 1642
02 0651 1654 0643 1722 0615 1747 0535 1809 0500 1831 0441 1852 0445 1900 0503 1846 0524 1812 0543 1732 0607 1657 0634 1642
03 0651 1655 0642 1723 0614 1747 0534 1810 0500 1832 0441 1853 0445 1900 0504 1845 0525 1811 0544 1731 0608 1656 0635 1642
04 0652 1656 0641 1724 0613 1748 0533 1811 0459 1833 0441 1853 0446 1900 0505 1844 0525 1809 0545 1729 0609 1655 0635 1642
05 0652 1657 0640 1725 0611 1749 0531 1812 0458 1833 0441 1854 0446 1900 0505 1843 0526 1808 0545 1728 0610 1654 0636 1642
06 0652 1658 0640 1726 0610 1750 0530 1812 0457 1834 0440 1854 0447 1900 0506 1843 0527 1807 0546 1727 0611 1653 0637 1642
07 0652 1658 0639 1727 0609 1751 0529 1813 0456 1835 0440 1855 0447 1900 0507 1842 0527 1805 0547 1725 0612 1653 0638 1642
08 0652 1659 0638 1728 0608 1751 0528 1814 0455 1835 0440 1855 0448 1900 0507 1841 0528 1804 0548 1724 0612 1652 0639 1642
09 0652 1700 0637 1729 0606 1752 0526 1814 0454 1836 0440 1856 0448 1859 0508 1840 0528 1803 0548 1723 0613 1651 0639 1643
10 0652 1701 0636 1730 0605 1753 0525 1815 0453 1837 0440 1856 0449 1859 0509 1839 0529 1801 0549 1722 0614 1650 0640 1643
11 0652 1702 0635 1731 0604 1754 0524 1816 0453 1838 0440 1857 0449 1859 0509 1838 0530 1800 0550 1720 0615 1650 0641 1643
12 0652 1703 0635 1731 0603 1754 0523 1816 0452 1838 0440 1857 0450 1858 0510 1837 0530 1759 0550 1719 0616 1649 0641 1643
13 0651 1704 0634 1732 0601 1755 0521 1817 0451 1839 0440 1857 0450 1858 0511 1836 0531 1757 0551 1718 0617 1649 0642 1643
14 0651 1704 0633 1733 0600 1756 0520 1818 0450 1840 0440 1858 0451 1858 0511 1835 0532 1756 0552 1717 0618 1648 0643 1644
15 0651 1705 0632 1734 0559 1757 0519 1819 0450 1841 0440 1858 0451 1857 0512 1833 0532 1755 0553 1715 0619 1647 0643 1644
16 0651 1706 0631 1735 0558 1757 0518 1819 0449 1841 0440 1858 0452 1857 0513 1832 0533 1753 0553 1714 0620 1647 0644 1644
17 0651 1707 0630 1736 0556 1758 0517 1820 0448 1842 0440 1859 0453 1857 0513 1831 0534 1752 0554 1713 0621 1646 0645 1645
18 0650 1708 0629 1737 0555 1759 0515 1821 0448 1843 0441 1859 0453 1856 0514 1830 0534 1751 0555 1712 0621 1646 0645 1645
19 0650 1709 0628 1738 0554 1759 0514 1822 0447 1843 0441 1859 0454 1856 0515 1829 0535 1749 0556 1711 0622 1645 0646 1646
20 0650 1710 0627 1738 0552 1800 0513 1822 0447 1844 0441 1859 0455 1855 0515 1828 0535 1748 0556 1710 0623 1645 0646 1646
21 0649 1711 0625 1739 0551 1801 0512 1823 0446 1845 0441 1900 0455 1854 0516 1827 0536 1747 0557 1709 0624 1645 0647 1647
22 0649 1712 0624 1740 0550 1802 0511 1824 0445 1845 0441 1900 0456 1854 0517 1826 0537 1745 0558 1708 0625 1644 0647 1647
23 0648 1713 0623 1741 0548 1802 0510 1824 0445 1846 0442 1900 0456 1853 0517 1824 0537 1744 0559 1706 0626 1644 0648 1648
24 0648 1714 0622 1742 0547 1803 0509 1825 0444 1847 0442 1900 0457 1853 0518 1823 0538 1742 0600 1705 0627 1644 0648 1648
25 0648 1715 0621 1743 0546 1804 0508 1826 0444 1847 0442 1900 0458 1852 0519 1822 0539 1741 0600 1704 0628 1643 0649 1649
26 0647 1716 0620 1743 0544 1804 0507 1827 0444 1848 0442 1900 0458 1851 0519 1821 0539 1740 0601 1703 0629 1643 0649 1649
27 0646 1717 0619 1744 0543 1805 0505 1827 0443 1849 0443 1900 0459 1851 0520 1819 0540 1738 0602 1702 0630 1643 0650 1650
28 0646 1718 0618 1745 0542 1806 0504 1828 0443 1849 0443 1901 0500 1850 0521 1818 0541 1737 0603 1701 0630 1643 0650 1651
29 0645 1719 0540 1807 0503 1829 0442 1850 0443 1901 0500 1849 0521 1817 0541 1736 0604 1700 0631 1642 0650 1651
30 0645 1719 0539 1807 0502 1830 0442 1850 0444 1901 0501 1848 0522 1816 0542 1734 0605 1659 0632 1642 0650 1652
31 0644 1720 0538 1808 0442 1851 0502 1848 0523 1814 0605 1659 0651 1653
Add one hour for daylight time, if and when in use.
Back to form
Page 1 of 1 Sun or Moon Rise/Set Table for One Year
1/23/2013 http://aa.usno.navy.mil/cgi-bin/aa_rstablew.pl

Important! Please read the Notes section.
This page provides a way for you to obtain a table of the times of sunrise/sunset, moonrise/moonset, or the
beginning and end of twilight, for any year between 1700 and 2100.
You can obtain a table for any location worldwide by following these simple steps:
Decide on which form to use. If you want a table for cities or towns in the U.S. or its territories, use Form A
below. For other locations, use Form B below.
Enter the year (1700 - 2100) for which the table is desired.
Select the table type (sunrise/sunset, moonrise/moonset, etc.) from the pop-up list in the form that you are
using.
Specify the location of interest using the fields provided on the form.
Click the "Compute Table" button at the end of the form to compute the table. The table will provide the
data requested in local standard time on a 24-hour clock; for example, 1836 means 6:36 p.m., local
standard time.
Be sure to read Notes section (on this page beyond the two forms) for an explanation of the items in the
table.
Form A - U.S. Cities or Towns

Specify year, type of table, and place:
Year: 2006 Type of table: sunrise/sunset
State or Territory: California
City or Town Name: SanDiego
The place name you enter above must be a city or town in the U.S. The place's location will be retrieved from a
file with over 22,000 places listed. Either upper- or lower-case letters or a combination can be used. Spell out
place name prefixes, as in "East Orange", "Fort Lauderdale", "Mount Vernon", etc. The only exception is "St.",
which is entered as an abbreviation with a period, as in "St. Louis". You need only enter as many characters as
will unambiguously identify the place.
ComputeTable Clearallfields
Form B - Locations Worldwide
Specify year, type of table, and place:
Year: 2013 Type of table: sunrise/sunset
Place Name Label: (nonamegiven)
The place name you enter above is merely a label for the table header; you can enter any identifier, or none
(avoid using punctuation characters). The data will be calculated for the longitude and latitude you enter below.
Longitude: east west degrees minutes
SUN OR MOON RISE/SET TABLE FOR ONE YEAR
Page 1of 3 Sun or Moon Rise/Set Table for One Year
1/28/2013 http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneYear.php
Latitude: north south degrees minutes
Time Zone: hours east of Greenwich west of Greenwich
For locations that require it, the time zone can be entered in hours and a fraction. For example, for locations in
India, the time zone may be entered as 5.5 hours east of Greenwich. The time zone field can accommodate up
to five characters.
Need coordinates? Try NGA's GEOnet Names Server (GNS).
Need U.S. coordinates? Try the USGS Geographic Names Information System (GNIS).
Need a time zone? Try the time zone map.
ComputeTable Clearallfields
Notes
How to Print the Table
The table is 134 characters wide, so to print it you must use landscape orientation and 8-point (smallest) type.
Consult your browser's documentation for details on how to change the font/text size. An alternative scheme is to
save the table to a file on your computer (for example, in Internet Explorer, click on Page then Save As...), then
use your favorite word processor or text editor to print it.
How to Import the Table into a Spreadsheet
Open your favorite text editor, then copy the numerical part of the table (i.e., do not copy the table headings)
from your browser and paste it into the text editor. Save the data as a text file.
In Excel 2003, click Data on the menu bar, then Import External Data, then Import Data. Select your saved text
file. Choose fixed width in the dialog box. [In Excel 2004 for Mac, the commands are Data ->Get External Data
->Import Text File]
In Excel 2007, click Data on the menu bar, then From Text. Select your saved text file. Choose fixed width in
the dialog box.
Definitions
For information on the definitions of rise, set, and twilight, see Rise, Set, and Twilight Definitions in FAQ.
Time Zones
The times of the phenomena are presented in the standard time of the place requested, using the current time
zone of the place. Standard time in time zones was introduced in the U.S. in 1883, but the time zone boundaries
have evolved considerably since then, with places shifting from one zone to another. There is no attempt here to
track such changes.
Daylight Time
Daylight time is not implemented in this program. When daylight time is in use, add one hour to the times
listed in the table.
Legal Use of the Data in the Table
Please see Astronomical Data Used for Litigation if you are interested in using for legal purposes the data
produced by this service.
Sunset photo taken from Nags Head, North Carolina, by George Kaplan.
Back to . . . top Form A Form B

EXHIBIT 9
Starting in 2007, daylight time begins in the United States on the second Sunday in March and ends on the first
Sunday in November. On the second Sunday in March, clocks are set ahead one hour at 2:00 a.m. local
standard time, which becomes 3:00 a.m. local daylight time. On the first Sunday in November, clocks are set
back one hour at 2:00 a.m. local daylight time, which becomes 1:00 a.m. local standard time. These dates were
established by Congress in the Energy Policy Act of 2005, Pub. L. no. 109-58, 119 Stat 594 (2005).
Not all places in the U.S. observe daylight time. In particular, Hawaii and most of Arizona do not use it. Indiana
adopted its use beginning in 2006.
Year Begin End
2006 April 2 October 29
2007 * March 11 November 4
2008 March 9 November 2
* New law went into effect.
Many countries observe some form of "summer time" and the dates when the changes are made are various and
not determined by any international agreements.
Daylight time and time zones in the U.S. are defined in the U.S. Code, Title 15, Chapter 6, Subchapter IX -
Standard Time.
History of Daylight Time in the U.S.
Although standard time in time zones was instituted in the U.S. and Canada by the railroads in 1883, it was not
established in U.S. law until the Act of March 19, 1918, sometimes called the Standard Time Act. The act also
established daylight saving time, a contentious idea then. Daylight saving time was repealed in 1919, but
standard time in time zones remained in law. Daylight time became a local matter. It was re-established
nationally early in World War II, and was continuously observed from 9 February 1942 to 30 September 1945.
After the war its use varied among states and localities. The Uniform Time Act of 1966 provided standardization
in the dates of beginning and end of daylight time in the U.S. but allowed for local exemptions from its
observance. The act provided that daylight time begin on the last Sunday in April and end on the last Sunday in
October, with the changeover to occur at 2 a.m. local time.
During the "energy crisis" years, Congress enacted earlier starting dates for daylight time. In 1974, daylight time
began on 6 January and in 1975 it began on 23 February. After those two years the starting date reverted to the
last Sunday in April. In 1986, a law was passed that shifted the starting date of daylight time to the first Sunday in
DAYLIGHT TIME
Page 1 of 2 Daylight Time
1/24/2013 http://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/daylight_time.php
April, beginning in 1987. The ending date of daylight time was not subject to such changes, and remained the
last Sunday in October. The Energy Policy Act of 2005 changed both the starting and ending dates. Beginning in
2007, daylight time starts on the second Sunday in March and ends on the first Sunday in November.
For a very readable account of the history of standard and daylight time in the U.S., see
Ian R. Bartky and Elizabeth Harrison: "Standard and Daylight-saving Time", Scientific American, May
1979 (Vol. 240, No. 5), pp. 46-53.
Page 2 of 2 Daylight Time
1/24/2013 http://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/docs/daylight_time.php

EXHIBIT 10

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EXHIBIT 11
Governor Jesse Ventura, a/k/a James G.
Janos. an individual,
Civil No. 0:12-cv-00472
Plaintiff,
VS.
Sl.JPPLEMENT AL DECLARATION
OF KEVIN LACZ
Taya Kyle, as Executor of the Estate of
Chris Kyle,
Defendant.
I, Kevin Lacz, do state that the following facts are true and correct to the best of
my knowledge and belief:
1. J provide this Declaration based on my personal knowledge and
information and do so fiorn my state of residence in the State of North Carolina.
2. In a prior declaration dated February 29,2012, and filed with the Court at
Docket No. 33, I stated that I witnessed an interaction between Chris Kyle and Jesse
Ventura at McP's Irish Pub & Grill in Coronado, California, in October 2006.
3. I stated in that declaration that, late in the evening on the day in question. I
saw Chris in Ventura's vicinity. They were talking relatively closely and I could not hear
what they were saying over the din of the crowd. I looked away. and I did not see Chris
hit, punch. or shove Ventura. However, when I turned back, I saw that Ventura was on
FBD0000013
the ground and that Chris was making his way out the door. I stand by that statement and
all other statements made in my prior declaration.
4. At my deposition on "lovember 2, 2012, I testified, consistent with my
prior declaration, that I noticed Chris and Ventura were talking and that when !looked
back over at them Chris was ''making his way out and Mr. V cntura !was I somewhere
over there." I testiticd that I didn't see Chris hit Ventura but that they had been "talking
relatively close" and when I looked over "Mr. Ventura was on the ground and Chris was
leaving'' I also testified that I had a fair amount to drink the evening of the incident. 1
stand by those statements (pages 33,47-50,96. 110-16) and all other statements I made at
my deposition, under oath.
5. After my deposition, it was brought to my attention that, during a recorded
interview with Chris's co-author Jim Defelice, I asked DeFelice, "Did Chris Kyle ever
tell you about the Jesse Ventura incident?" During my deposition, I did not recall
speaking with DeFelice about Ventura- that discussion was a small piece of a much
larger conversation- but I do not now doubt that I talked to DeFelice about Ventura.
6. When DeFelice asked what happened, and according to a transcript of the
recording, I told him that Ventura was running his mouth and that Chris "choked out"
Ventura. I also told DeFelice that I was "shit-hammered" that night.
7. I understand that V cntura has used what he perceives as a discrepancy
between what I told DeFelice and what I stated in my declaration and my deposition
testimony to support his claim that no incident occurred. Ventura's perception is
incorrect.
-2-
FBD0000014
8. l of course did not see Chris ''choke out" Ventura in the literal sense of that
phrase-that is, l did not see Chris with his hands around Ventura s throat, attempting to
cut oiTVentura's air. As I testified under oath, I did not even see Chris hit Ventura. I just
saw Ventura on the ground after he and Chris had been closely talking.
9. When I was talking to DeFelice, l used the phrase "choke out" loosely, in
the sense that SEALs usc and understand the tenn. All I really meant was that Chris and
Ventura had some sort of altercation.
10. As for my statement to DeFelice that I was "shit-hammered," again I was
speaking loosely with DeFelice and certainly used more colorful language during the
discussion than I would when testifying under oath.
II. I don't really remember whether I was drunk on the night of the incident
between Chris and Ventura. It was six years ago. we were at a bar, and we were
mourning one of our teammates. As I testified, I know I had several drinks, and atlcr six-
plus years of active duty in the military, I have been drunk more than once. I've also
learned how to handle alcohol. I am contldent that I was able to observe and remember
the events of that night.
12. Regardless how much I drank that night, I know that I saw Chris and
V cntura talking to one another and that, moments later, I saw Chris walking away from
Ventura and Ventura getting up from the ground. I did not imagine or hallucinate those
events.
I certify under penalty of perjury that the foregoing is true and correct to the best
of my personal knowledge and belief.
-3-
FBD0000015
Kevi acz
-4-
FBD0000016

EXHIBIT 12
Jesse Ventura, a/lela James G. Janos, Civil No. 12-472 RHK/JJK
Plaintiff,
vs.
DECLARATION OF ROSEMARY
DESHAZO
Taya Kyle, as Executor of the Estate of
Chris Kyle,
Defendant.
I, Rosemary deShazo, hereby declare as follows:
1. I make this declaration upon personal knowledge.
2. In 2006, my sister Laura deShazo and I drove through the night from Salt
Lake City, Utah, to San Diego, California, to attend the memorial service for Navy SEAL
Michael Monsoor. Michael Monsoor was a very good friend of my family.
3. After the Monsoor memorial service and a small-group ceremony
afterwards, my sister and I and some others went to McP's for the wake.
4. I did not know all of the people at the wake. A lot of active and retired
SEALS were there, and I may have met Chris Kyle at the wake, but if I did, I do not
remember that specifically. I do not know Taya Kyle.
5. While we were at McP's, I became aware that Jesse Ventura was there.
Laura and I had our picture taken with him. I do not have a copy of that picture of us with
Jesse Ventura.
FBD0000030
6. During the short time that we were with him, Ventura asked why we were
at McP's. We told him that we were at a wake for a fallen SEAL. Ventura then said: "He
probably deserved it. They die all the time." This statement offended me.
7. In fact, Ventura's entire presence that night seemed to be pretty offensive to
a lot of people. There had been some early excitement or talk about a celebrity being at
McP's, but he wore out his welcome pretty quickly.
8. I do not generally drink alcohol excessively, and often am the designated
driver. We drove my car to and from the wake.
9. My sister and I left San Diego early the next morning. I had to drive back to
Salt Lake City so that I could be at work.
10. I am a dermatology resident. In 2006, I was an internal medicine resident at
the University of Utah.
D a t e d ~ /3,2013
FBD0000031

DEP. EX-41
Legal Services
CLIENT: Sheppard, Mullin, Richter & Hampton
501 W. Broadway, 19th Floor
San Diego, CA 92101
ATTENTION: David Dooley
FILE NUMBER:
CASE NAME: Governor Jesse Ventura aka James G. Janos
vs
Chris Kyle
DEPOSITION DATE: October 19,2012
RECORDS ON: See wording on subpoena
FROM: National Car Rental System, Inc.
3280 North Harbor Drive
San Diego, CA 92101
11'1 THE ENCLOSED RECORDS COMPLETE YOUR REQUEST FROM THIS CUSTODIAN
0 THIS REQUEST IS INCOMPLETE FOR THE FOLLOWING REASON:
D Billing records were not available at the time of copying and will be
fowarded to your office when they become available.
0 X*Rays were not available at the time of copying and will be forwarded
when available.
0 THERE ARE NO RECORDS AT THE ABOVE LOCATION
OOTHER: ______________________________________ __
Our Reference No.: SU239052-01
P.O.Bw. X67 C:\ 90508
C1!01 464.8655 UiO) 40-i-8(l54
llllllilllll
Ventura v. Kyle
USDC, Minn., 12-472
Defendant's Dep. x.
DX-41
Order: SUZ3905201/CPROOF21
NATIONAL0001
OF. PROFESSIONAL
(Pursuant to California and Professions Code Section 22462
As a representative of ''Titan Legal Services, Inc.", {hereby declare that the attached are true and complete
copies of all records which were provided to me on this date.
Said records will be delivere on I io the party or entity
() t 0 ("-".
Executed on at , California

Print Name Signed
Records pertain to: See wording on subpoena
Description of Records:
I, the undersigned, am duly authorized custodian of records for National Car Rental System, Inc., whose business
address is 3280 Notih Harbor Drive, San Diego, CA, 92101, and have authority to certify records. I am qualified to
testify as to the preparation and maintenance of the records sought by the subpoena or authorization attached hereto
and, if called as a witness, could testify competently thereto. Further, I hereby certify to the following (check
appropriate boxes):
N_'CERTIFICATION OF RECORDS COPIED
1. The accompanying copies are true copies of a!! records in my custody or control described in the
subpoena or authorization.
2.
I ] tf applicable, When Only Partial Records are Produced The following records described in
the subpoena or authorization are not in my custody for the following reasons.
The records were prepared or received by the p8rsonnel of the responding business in the
ordinary and regular course of business at or near the act, condition or event related in such
records.
The accompanying records were prepared in the following manneL (check all applicable
box!;!s) { ] from microfilm/microfiche; ( ] from computer stored data; [ ] by
photocopying ttle original paper record; (>j by electronic duplication process; [ ] by photographic
duplication process; [ ] other (describe}:
[]CERTIFICATION OF NO RECORDS (Custodian's initials ___________ _)
[ J CERTIFICATION OF NO XRA YS/MRI'S/ RADIOLOGICAL FILMS [ ] CERTIFICATION OF NO BILLING RECORDS
1. A thorough search has been made for the documents, records and things called for in the
subpoena or authorization and, based upon the information provided, no such items were found.
2. No copies or records are transmitted because we do not have said records.
3. Explanation or reason why you have NO RECORDS:
I DECLARE under penalty of perjury under the laws of Untted States of America that the foregoing is true and correct.
Executed on _ _,(_)'-'c-_+,_-'1"';2"'_+-";;1". "c?'-1._,_2 ___ _ at , California
Print Name
t-::0o o rt"\"
Signed
Phone
NATIONAL0002
#National.
RA # 21019308e
JAMESJANOs-------------------1
DEllWOOD. MN 55110
RENTAL LOCATION
SAN DIEGO AAPT {619)497 6777
3280 NORTH HARBOR DRIVE
SAN DIEGO, CA 92101
RATE RULES AND QUAUACATIONS
NIGHTLY WEEKEND THURSDAY
Max. rental 4 days
Mon at 07:29 PM
Required overnight Sat
CHARGES
RENTER'S AESPONSIBIUn'
TIME & DISTANCE
TIME & DISTANCE
TIME & DISTANCE
EXTRA TIME & DISTANCE
UNUMITED MllESIKMTIME & DISTANCE
FUEL SERVICE OPTION
SALES TAX 7.75%
I DECLINE PERSONAL ACCIDENT INSURANCE (PAl)
UNIT
Day
Hour
Day
Hour
MIKM
Rental
EC#
FT#
RETURN LOCATION
SAN DIEGO ARPT (619)497 6777
3200 NORTH HARBOR DRIVE
SAN DIEGO, CA 92101
VEHICLE INFORMATION
RETURN DATE
15-0CT-2008
RETURNnME
11:00AM
RESERVED Ful! Size 2/4 Door Car Auto NC
DRIVEN Full Size 214 Door Car Auto AJC
CHARGED FuJI Size 2/4 Door Car Auto NC
MAKE
MODEL
COLOR
ODOMETER
PLATE
REG AREA
VEHICLE#
BAY
STALL
PRICEIUNJT
34.90 X 3
17.45 X
74.90 X
37.45 X
0.00 X
45.92 X 1
0
CURRENT CHARGE
104.70
0.00
0.00
0.00
0.00
46.92
ESTIMATED CHARGES 163 37 INITIAL
1175
(AU Charges Are Esltmate Only Subject to change 1f vehtcle not returned o the !ton on dat
and lime specHied, or if fuel tank is not at return and fuel service option was not purchased).
I DECLINE OPTIONAL THIRD PARTY BODILY INJURY AND PROPERTY DAMAGE INSURANCE (SU). X
I CHOOSE OPTIONAL FUEL PURCHASE AT START OF RENTAL, :T 2.76 ER GAU.ON (NO REFUND FO
REFLECTED HERE IS AN ESTIMATE BASED ON THE AVERA t IZ THE CAR CLASS CHAR
MAY CHANGE BASED ON THE AClUAL CAR I DRIVE. X --',.-1;-\,S-/------
CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF INSURANCE LICENSE #0
HOTLINE. 800-927-4357(HELP)
CALIFORNIA LAW REQUIRES AU. DRIVERS TO MEET STATE FINANCIAL RESPONSIBIUTY REQUIREMENTS. UNLESS AN OPTIONAL INSURANCE
PRODUCT HAS BEEN PURCHASED IN CONNECTION WITH THIS AGREEMENT THAT CONTAINS LIABILITY INSURANCE COVERAGE, NATIONAL DOES
NOT PROVIDEVOU ANY UABIUTY INSURANCE WITH THIS RENTAL YOUR O'NN MOTOR VEHICLE UABIUTY INSURANCE MAY OR MAY NOT PROVIDE
YOU COVE NAL PERSONNEL CANNOT ADVISE YOU ON WHETHER IT DOES OR DOESN'T. THIS NOTICE AMENDS AND SUPERSEDES
ALL CONF CTl ER . S CONTAINED WITHIN THIS RENTAL AGREEMENT. YOU ACKNOWl..EDGE HAVING READ THIS NOTICE X
. .
NOTICE IN CIAL RESPONSIBJUTY AND DAMAGE WAIVER: YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR All COWS JON DAMAGE TO THE VEHICLE EVEN IF
SOME LSE CAUSED IT OR TI-lE CAUSE IS UNKNOWN. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE COST OF REPAIR UP TO THE VALUE OF THE VEHICLE,
AND TOWING, STORAGE, IMPOUND FEES AND OTHER COSTS RELATED TO SUCH DAMAGE. YOUR CJoNN INSURANCE, OR THE ISSUER OF THE
CREOI"t\ CARD YOU USE TO PAY FOR RENTALS UNDER THE AGREEMENT MAY COVER AU. OR PART OF VOUA FINANCIAL RESPONSIBIUTY FOR
THE VEf.:UCLE. YOU SHOULD CHECK WITH YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY, OR CREDIT CARD ISSUER TO AND OUT ABOUT YOUR COVERAGE AND
THE AMOUNT OF THE DEDUCTIBLE. IF ANY. FOR WHICH YOU MAY BE LIABlE. IF YOU USE A CREDIT CARD THAT PROVIDES COVERAGE FOR YOUR
POTENTIAL UABIUTY, YOU SHOULD CHECK WITH THE ISSUER TO DETERMINE IF YOU MUST FIRST EXHAUST THE COVERAGE UMITS OF YOUR
OWN INSURANCE BEFORE THE CREDIT CARD COVERAGE APPUES. NATIONAL WILL NOT HOLD YO 18 OR COWS ION DAMAGE TO
TilE VEHICLE IF YOU PURCHASE LOSS DAMAGE WAIVER (LOW). BUT WW WILl NOT PROTECT FA SION DAMAGE ARISING FROM A
PAOHIBrfEO USE, AS DESCRIBED IN THIS AGREEMENT (SEE RENTAL AGREEMENT JACKI::T). X \-co-:ch""--f-------
IIIIU DOl Dfll mu IIIli miD 1111 Dllllllllll mE
RA # 210193086
PAGE1 OF2
NATIONALDOD3
I I I
INCLUDING THOSE CONTAINED WITHIN NATIONAL'S
RA # 2101S30S
PAGE 2 OF 2
JACKET AND ALL APPUCABLE OPTIONAL PRODUCT BROCHURES, N<JD
YOU ACKNO\..\ILEOGERECE!IPT OF EACH OFTHEM.YOU UNDERSTAND
THAT IF YOU 00 NOT COMPLY WITK THE TERMS OF ANY APPUCABLE
CORPORATE, GOVERNMENT, OR TOUR ACCOUNT AGREEMENT THE
TERMS OF THIS RENTAL AGREEMENT. ALL UABIUTY AND
I MOTORIST BENEFITS, IF ANY, ARE
HA 1:1
PAGE:. 2
NATIONAL0004

DEP. EX-49
From the Minnesota Governor's Mansion to the Baja Outback
Reflections and Revisionings
lBy J ee Ven1!:1uuea
with Dkk R1!.1Ldll
A Herman Graf book
Skyhorse Publishing
Ventura v. Kyle
USDC, Minn., 12-472
Defendant's Dcp. Ex.
DX-49
Copyright@ 2008 by Jesse Ventura
All Riglns Reserved, No part of this book may be reproduced in any manner without
the express written consent n f rhc publisher; except in the case of brief excerpts in
critical reviews or articles, All inquiries should be addressed to Sky horse Publishing,
555 Eighth Avenue, Suite 903, New Y<>rk, NY 10018,
Skyhorsc Publishing books may be purchased in bulk at special discounts itlr .sales
promotion, corporate gifts, fund raising, or educational purposes. Special editions
can also be created to specifications, For derails, contact Spr,cial Sales Departmerlt,
Skyhorse Publishing, 555 Eighth Avenue, Suite 903, New York, NY 10018 or info@'
skyhorscpublislring.com.
www.skyhorscpublishing.com
10987654321
Library of Congress Cataloging-in-Publication Data
ventLUa, Jesse.
Don't start the revolution without me! : from the Minnesota governor's mansion to
the B:1ja outback : reflections and revisionings I Jesse Venttua ; with Dick RusselL
p. em,
ISBN 978-1-60239-273-1 (hardcover: alk. paper)
1. Ventura, Jesse, 2. Ventura, T<,:rry 3. Governors-Minnesota--Biography.
4. Governors' spouses---Minnesota---- Biography. 5. United Sratcs-l'olitics and
governmcnt----1989 o. Minnesota-----Politics and government--1951-7. Ventura,
Jesse----'1Javd Southwest, New. 8. Ventura, 'Tcrry---:ThlVel-Southwcst, New.
9. Southwest, New-Description and traveL 10. Baja California (M.exico:
Pcninsula)-Dcscripdon and traveL I. Russell, Dick II. Tide.
F610.3.V46A3 2008
977.6'053092-dc22
[B]
2007048884
Printc<l in the United Stares of America
lj.g
fESSE VENTURA
'fhe (iiendliness we generally encounter on the road is wonderful.
Except on one particular night in Denny's. They have a big-screen
rv in the corner, and everybody is glued to it. All watching Fox
News. It doesn't take me long to ret sick of it, and I ask if thev can
"
change the channel. But they won't. It's stuck on Fox News'
TERRY: Most of the truck drivers rtre thcse huge, burly guys. And
]cJ:1e, sitting there complctining rtbout Fox News and talking
loudly about Bush. l mum, big too, but it scrtred the out
of me/
\\(/hy do I react like this? 'fhe media today are controlled by the
big corporations. It's all about ratings and money. Believe it or
not, l think the downfall of our press today was the show 60 /Vfinutes.
Up until it came along, news during the Walter Cronkite era
\Vas expecred to lose money. The networks wrote it oH: in or-
der to bring the people fair reporting and the truth. But when
60 Minute.r becan1e rhe top-rated program on television, the
light went on. 'l'he corpora.ce honchos said, "Wait a minute, you
mean if we entcrtrtin with the news, v.re can rnake money?" It was
the realization that, just like any sitcom or drama series, if pack-
aged the correct way, the news could rnake you big bucks. No
longer was it a matter of scooping somebody else on a swry, bur
whether 20/20's ratings this week were better than Drtteline's.
J'rn not knocking 60 Minutes. It was tremendously well done
and hugely successful, but in the long run it could end up being
a detriment to society.
My major criticism of today's media is, they're no longer reporting
rhe news, they're creating it. \Xlhcn that happens, you're in deep trou-
ble. Here's an example fron1 the spores world: Not long ago, afi:er

DEP. EX-50
From the Minnesota Governor's Mansion to the Baja Outback
By Jesse Velllltt!J.Lll'a
with Dkk RttitGellli
A Herman Graf book
Skyhorsc Publishing
Ventnra v. Kyle
VSDC, Minn., 12-472
DX-50
Copyright@ 2008 by Jesse Ventura
All Rights Reserved. No part of this book may be reproduced in any manner without
the express written consent of the publisher, except in the case of brief excerpts in
critical reviews or articles, All inquiries should be addressed to Skyhorsc Publishing,
555 Eighth Avenue, Suite 903, New York, NY 10018,
Skyhorse Publishing books may oe purchased in bulk at spechl discounts for sales
promotion, corporate gifts, fund mising, or educational purposes, Special editions
can also be created to specifications. For details, contact Special Sales Department,
Slcyhorsc Publishing, 555 Eighth Avenue, Suite 90.3, New York, NY 10018 or in(oQil
skyhorscpublishing,com.
www. skyh orse r tl bl ish in g. co 111
10987654321
Ventura, Jesse,
Don'r srart the revolution without me! : hom the Minnesota governor's mansion ro
the Baja outback: reflections and rcvisionings f Jesse Vemum ; with Dick RusselL
p. ern.
ISBN 978-l-60239-2'73-1 (hardcover: a!k. paper)
1. Ventura, Jesse. 2. Ventura, 'I<,rry. 3. Governors--Minnesota--Biography,
4. Governors' spouses-----Minnesota--Biography, 5. United States---Politics and
governmenr- ..... ] 9il9- 6. Minnesota---Po.lirics and governmcnt-1951-- 7. Ventura,
Jesse---'Tlavd-- Southwest, New. 8. Ventura, 'len:y---'Tb.vd-Soutbwcsr, New.
9. Southwest, New--Description and tTavel. 10. Baja California (Mexico:
Peninsula)--Descriprion and travel. I. Rllssell, Dick. IL 'fitle.
F610.3.V16A;l 2008

[B]
2007048884
Primed in the United States of.America
250 JESSE VENTURA
in my own three lines at I-hsty Pudding! Then they ;<dvertised it all
over campus with posters stating: "Come and see Governor Jesse
Ventura as you will have never seen him before!"
I kept my beard, and I decided to be a blonde. I went with whar
I called the "European Look"-that is, miniskirt with unshaven
legs. If I remember right, it was pink-sequined. I 10ld them I'd have
to take a pass on rhe finale, where all the fdlas end up in a big conga
line with their legs kicking, due to my back problem. Other than
that, I was game for all.
\Xfell, the show sold out that night. The place was packed! I got
so into listening and laughing with the audience reaction, instead
of taking the pregnant pause, that I ended up forgetting my last
line. My son was there and he videotaped it all from the audience.
Ic's gone into my archives, never to be released.
But we had a great: time and, when it was over, cast and crew all
got back into our "civvies" and beaded over to John Harvard's Brew
they make microbrews right: there on campus-----to
wash a few down. I happened to notice these three young guys
sitting at a table. They were each wearing T-shins that said, in big
blade letters: "IiAlWARD SUCKS."
Hey, I'm teaching here, and even part of the Hasty Pudding.
Which means that Harvard is my school--Tm Crimson! So see-
ing this brought out the old frogman in me. I thought, nobody
would walk into a Navy SEAL bar and walk out again standing,
wearing "SEAL TEAM SUCKS" on their 'f-shirt. 'fhis demanded
a response!
So, I walked over to tbe table. I was still pretty
six-four, 25 5 pounds--and getting back in shape by training for
two hours every morning at the Harvard Athletic Club and then
running three miles a day. Also, by now, I'd had a few brews. I stared
DON'T S'T'ART THE REVOLUTION \XII'fHOlJf ME! 251
hard at these three fellows and said, "What's with these T-shirts,
'HARVARD SUCKS'?"
One of them replied casually, "Well, we think Harvard sucks."
I said, "Oh yeah? \Xfhere are you from?"
"'Texas," another said.
I said, "l<..eally. Well, I go to Harvard. And I hear that, in 'Texas,
the only thing they've got are steers and queers---and I don't see no
horns on you!"
1'hat: used to be our standard line in the Navy to get :myiexan to
fight. The three of thern glared back at me, in silence.
Then I added rhis: "You've got two options. One is to deal with me.
T'wo is to take the shins off and put them on again. Inside out."
They chose the second option.
\'Vorcl spread quicldy across the Harvard campus that Governor
Ventura had stood tall for the Crimson.
Like a pro wrestling match where the fi.:tttured peiformcr walks
out rt.ncl whips up the crou!d beforehttnd, Jesse Venturc/s .ft'rst
Hrtrvrtrd dctss be,r;;cm ettr{y rmd outside the ropes. Arriving tlt
Lorvel! Housefor his weelef:y seminm; Ventum-a visitingfCl!ow
at the Kennedy School's Institute of Politics this se7nestCJ'--
. '
waited for rmother clttss to finish. While he stood outside, students
eager to hear from the _f(Jnner wrestling stm tmd Jvfinm:sotrt
gDvernm; whose fn shooting j1om the hijJ is we!!
established, gathered rtmund. He did not disttppoint.
--Boston Globe, Februm:y 25, 2004

DEP. EX-54
,
0
.. -,
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From the Minnesota Governor's JVLmsion to the Baja Ourback
ReHections and Revisionings
By Je5e VellJltlLRJ!'a
with D lick
A Fierman Graf book
Skyhorse Publishing
Ventura v. Kyle
USDC, Minn., 12-472
llcfcndant's Dcp. Ex.
DX-54
Copyright 2008 by Jesse Ventura
the express written consent of rhe publisher, except. in the case of brief excerpts in
critical reviews or articles. All inquiries shonld be addressed to Skyhorsc Pub.lishing,
555 Eighth Avenue, Strite '!O'l, NewYilrk, NY 10018.
Skyhorse Publishing books may be purchased in hulk ar special discounts for sales
promotion, corporate gifts, fund raising, or educational purposes. Special editions
can also be created to specifications. For derails, contact Special Sales Department,
Skyhorse Publishing, 5.'55 Eighth Avenue, Suite 90.3, New York, NY 10018 or info@
skyhorscpublishing.com.
www.skyhorsepuhlishing.com
10987654:521
Library of Congress Cataloging--in--Publication Data
Ventura, Jesse.
Don't start the revolution without mel : hom the Minnesota governor's mcmsion ro
the Baja outback : tefku-ions and rcvisionings I ]esse Vemum; with Dick Russell.
p. em.
ISBN 978-l-60239-273-1 (hardcover: aile papct)
l. Ventura, Jesse. 2. Ventura, 'T(,t-ry. 3. Governow-Minnesota-----Iliography.
4. Governors' spouses------Minnesota----Biography. 5. United States- -Politics and
government - 1989 -6. Minnesota-------Politics <ll1d government-1951-7. Vemura,
Jessc-----'Jhvcl -Southwest:, New. 8. Venrum, 1erry---'Tl-avd---Southwest, New.
9. Sourhwesr, New-Description and travel. 10. Baja (Mexico:
Pcninsula)-Dcscription and travel. I. Russell, Dick. II. Title.
F6!0.3.V46A3 2008
977.6'053092--dc22
[B]
2007048884
Printed in the United States of America
260 JESSE VEN'JURA
going it alone, or with the "coalition of the willing." Actually, except
fen the British, most of the "willing" didn't even have armies!
New documents that came out in April 2007 prove that: a unit
inside the Pentagon--Douglas Feith's OfGce of Special Plans----
. . II I l I ". 1" I . . 1 1
H1tentrona y coo <ec up t 1e tnte c atn:ung t: 1ere was a urect
tie between Iraq and al--Qaeda in order to gather support for a
preemptive strike. It's long since been established chat the other
big rationale for our invading, Saddam Hussein's supposed weap-
ons of mass destruction, was utterly bogus. I don't: think the CIA
is as inept as we were led to believe during the run-up to the
war, but was used very much as a scapegoat. I've had that verified
through some channels of Inine; that there are people within the
CIA who are exceptionally angry at how they were hung out to
dry. The more you get into it, the more you realize that it wasn't
that the CIA was giving President Bush the wrong "intel," but
simply that the president and bis people were choosing which
"imcl" they wanted to use, while the rest was conveniently pushed
aside and forgotten.
Colin Powell has since admitted that he was basically duped, and
it was Powell who I think pushed it over the top, because he was
the one whom the people wanted to helieve. In hindsight, I hold
1\)\'vell somewhat responsible. He spent his en tire life as a military
man. You may offer resistance to the conanander in chief up until
the point that the decision is made. Then any good soldier must
go along with the president, whether they agree with him or not.
That's the position Powell vv-as in. Personally, he probably had his
doubts, bnt when push came to shove, his years in the military
prevailed. So I can understand, to a point.
But l can\ forgive rhe rest of the chicken-hawk cowards-Bush,
Cheney, Rumsfdd, and the rest-who never served, and who sent
A rm:rican boys to Iraq to die. All based on a pack of lres.

DEP. EX-55
From the Minnesota Governor's Mansion to the Baja Omback
JS\y Jesse VellllhJura
wid1 Dkk
A Herman Graf book
Skyhorse Publishing
Ventura v. Kyle
USOC, Minn., 12-472
Defendant's Dep. Ex.
DX-55
Copyright (c? 2008 by Jesse Ventura
All Rights Reserve.d. No part of this book may be reproduced in any manner without
the express written consent of dK puhlisbcr, cxccpr in the case of brief excerpts in
critical reviews or art ides. All inquiries should be addressed to Sky horse Publishing,
55 5 Eighth Avenue, Suite 903, New York, NY 10018.
Skyhorse Publishing books may be purchased in bulk at special discounts for sales
promotion, corporate gifts, fund raising, or educmional purposes. Special editions
can also be created to specifications. For derails, contact Special Sales Department,
Skyhorse Publishing, 555 Eighth Avenue, Suire 90.3, New York, NY 10018 or i n f , ~ D
skyhorscpublishir1g.com.
www.skyhorscpublishing.com
10987654321
Library of Congress Caraloging--in-Publicuion Data
Ventura, Jesse.
Don\ smrt the revolution without me! : from the Jvfinncsota governor's mansion ro
the Baja outback: reflections and revisionings I Jesse Ventura ; with Dick 1\usscll.
p. em.
ISBN 978-1-60239-273-1 (hardcover: all<. papd)
1. Ventura, Jesse. 2. Ventura, 'T(:rry. 3. Govcrnors-ivfinncsota- -Biography.
4. Governors' spouses---Minn<5ota-----Biography. 5. United Srarcs-Politics and
governmcrH-- 1989 6. Minnesota-----Politics and govcrnmcnr-1951-- 7. Vcnnua,
Jcsse ...... 'J'\"avd- -Southwest, New. 8. Ventura, Terry-.... 'Thvel-Sourhwcsr, New.
9. Southwest, New--Description and travel. 10. Baja California (Mexico:
Peninsula)-Dcscriprion and travel. I. R.llssell, Dick. II. Title.
F6!0.3.V46A3 2008
977.6'053092-dcn
[Bj
2007048884
Primed in the United States of America
DON'T S'TART TII E REVOUJrl.ON WI'HlOUr ME! 261
I've heard people say, "W" did it ultimately to impress Daddy,
George, Sr,, stopped short of going into Baghdad at the end of the
Gulf War, and George, Jr., had always played second f-iddle to his
brother Jeb, and this was his big chance to show Dad he could seize
the initiative and do son1ething that even his l-ather didn't contcm
plate. Is it that? I don't know. 1 seem always to go back to the old
line from "Deep 'Ihroat" during Watergate: "Follow the money."
That's generally behind at least 90 percent of aU decisions made in
government nowadays, I believe.
When Am.erica entered World \Var Il, FDR said: "I don't want to
see a single war 111illionairc created in the United States as a result
of this world disaster." Harry 'lhunan, who wa.s then a senator
from Missouri, launched an investigation into war profiteering that
ended up saving the taxpayers more than $15 billion- the equiva-
lent of more than $200 billion today. 'loday, a whole lot of people
arc cashing in on the "war on terror." Not just Halliburton and
the Carlyle Group. 'T'hc big weapons JTwkers---Lockheed Marrin,
Boeing, Northrop Grumman, and General Dynamics--are all
reporting huge profits. It's been toted up that the defense indlls ..
u-y's top thirty-four CEOs have collectively earned a billion dollars
since 91.11. I compare the situacion w the current mortgage market,
where buyers arc getting properties for a steal.
Iraq is the most privatized war in American history. There are as
many as 200,000 private contractors over there--a number greater
than our 160,000 military troops! You might call it "rent-an-Army."
Halliburton, Dick Cheney's old company, was ready to roll svhen
the war began. 'They've since been found LO have wasted millions
of our dollars in overbilling and shoddy services (l-hlliburton runs
the chow lines, too). It's amazing, but these companies have zero
Only one of dwse 100,000 contractors has been
accused of any violations, or been indicted for ;my crimes. They

DEP. EX-56
NO MORE IN GOVERNMENT
JESSE
with Die!< Russell
SI<YHORSE PUBUSI11NG
Ventura v. Kvle
USDC, Minn., IZ-472
DX-56
Copyright@ 2012 by Jesse Ventura with Dick Russell
All Rights Reserved. No part of this book may be reproduced in any manner
without the express written consent of the except in the case of brief
excerpts in critical revitcws or articles. All inquiries should be addressed to
Skyhorse Publishing, 307 West 36th Street, 11th Flo01; New York, NY 10018.
Sky horse Publishing books may be purchased in bulk at special discounts for
sales promotion, corporate gifts, fund-raising, or educational purposes. Special
editions can also be created to specifications. For details, contact the Special Sales
Department, Skyhorse Publishing, 307 West 36th Street, 11th Flom; New York,
NY 100lil or lnfo@skyhorsqn.rblishing.com.
Sky horse''' and Sky horse Publishing" are registered tradcnmrks of Skyborse
Publishing, Inc.''', a Delaware corporation.
Visit our website at www.skyhorsepubllshing.com.
10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2. 1
Library of Congress Cntaloging-in-Publication Data
Ventura, Jesse.
DcmoCRIPS and rcBloodlicans : no more gangs in government I ]esse Ventura,
with Dick Russell.
p. em.
ISBN 978-1-61608-448-6 (hardcover: aile paper)
1. Business and politics--United States. 2. Corporations--Political activity-
-United States. 3. Lobbying--United Stales. 4. Camp<1ign funds--United States. 5.
Political parti<es--United States. 6. 'J\vo-party systems--United States. 7. United
States--Politics and government. r. Russell, Dick. H. Title.
)K467.V45 2012
322' .30973--dc23
20120!5895
Printed in the United States of America
THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: SPARE CHANGE YOU CAN BELIEVE IN?
due process of law," and the Sixth Amendment gives any of our
accused citizens "the right to a speedy and public trial" and ha-
beas corpus. We simply blew this guy and his son away from a
"safe" distance. Is it: now the right of the executive branch to order
the execution of an American citizen on the whim of the president?
And Obama was a professor of constitutional law!? Even though
we have a fedetallaw against rnurder and an executive order ban-
ning assassinations, a secret memo written over a year earlier de-
termined that killing al-Awlaki was lawful in the event it was not
feasible to take him alive.
4
Obama and his advisers were judge, jury,
and executioners of an American citizen.
Couple this with the vast increase in our capacity for surveil-
lance and remote control killing, and we've entered a very dan-
gerous realm where constitutional rights become essentially
meaningless. I'm well aware that our government has carried out
murders in the past of U.S. and foreign nationals, but now it' sbeing
done in the open and with the full blessing of government, press,
and public opinion? We're not just on a slippery slope, we're al-
ready well on our way downhill and picking up speed fast. It came
out last December in the Washington Post that the United States un-
der Obama has carried out top-secret drone attacks in at least six
Muslim countries. Who are they killing, and why doesn't this have
to be divulged?! The only member of the "team" who objected,
Dennis l a i J ~ got fired as director of national intelligence.
5
In February 2012, the head of our military's Joint Special Opera-
tions Command (JSOC), Admiral William MeRaven, is said to have
asked for "more autonomy" to send elite killer squads to every cor-
ner of the globe. This includes the Navy SEALS and the Green Be-
rets, which have gone from only 1,800 troops in 1980 to more than
25,000 today. The SEALS were created by President Kennedy, and
J'm proud to say that I served as one of them, with the Underwater
Dernolition Teams. But I never anticipated seeing special ops forces
deployed in more than seventy-five countries in our ever-expanding
role as "policeman" to the world.
117
OEMOCRIPS AND REBlOODUCANS
In both lraq and Afghanistan, JSOC units have been involved in
some of the worst atrocities. They carried out wholesale assas-
sinations of opponents of the iraqi occupation during the 2007
"surge" ordered by the Busll administration and were implicat-
ed in systematic torture of detainees. In Afghanistan, these units
were responsible for the infamous 2002 wedding massacre, where
they called in an AC-130 gunship to rake a wedding party and
other civilian targets, leaving hundreds dead and wounded. Un-
like the CIA, the JSOC is not required to secure a "presidential
finding" authorizing leth<d covert operations, or submit to con
gressional ovcrsight.
6
It pains me that the SEAL.S are today forced to be part of illegal
gangland operations.
In early March 2012, Attorney General Eric Holder gave a
speech at Northwestern University law school. During that speech,
he basically laid out in detail the legal theory behind being able to
kill American citizens who are suspected of terrorism without any
charges or trial. "Due process and judicial process are not one and
the same/ particularly when it comes to national security/' Holder
told the students. "The Constitution does not require the president
to delay action until some theoretical end stage of planning when
the precise time, place, and manner of attack become dear .... We
are at war with a stateless enemy, prone to shifting operations from
country to country .... This is an indicator of our times, not a depar-
ture from our laws and our values."
7
Along these lines, it seems to me that everything Bush imple-
mented, Obama has backed up if not taken farther. So in a way, the
Democrips are even more deceitful than the Rebloodlicans. One of
Obama's longtime colleagues, and an informal adviser to his 2008
campaign, came out with strong criticism about how the president
has done so little to change Bush's policies on government secrecy.
Geoffrey R. Stone, a law professor at the University of Chicago and
board chair of the American Constitution Society, wrote in June 2011
that Obama has "followed Mr. Bush in zealously applying the state

DEP. EX-72
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Ventura v, Kyle
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UkQ 193 TWeet 2
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Jesse was a Navy SeaL Could he have made this shot from the 6
1
h floor "sniper's nest?"
"BACK TO CONSPIRACY 1!1t001?Y
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Dan Dry Sullsc:rilx" Works at Self employed
i would agree with some of ur statements but I am sickeneQ on what you did at t11e seals funeral,i hope
your teeth got knocked out for saying the americans deserved to die, believe oswald was only shooter?i
can get off three shots in 6seconds on a non movii)(J tan:Jet and hit it on all three,but on a moving one i
agree with ya
Reply Like follow Post February 11 at 8:33am
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This lip fur puts your dad's 'stache to
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JFK was pretty mucll a sex addict.
THE 10 MOST ANNOYING THINGS
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Leave her rear alone. Exit only.
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Wow. The one about porn is
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21 IMAGES YOU WON'T BELIEVE
AREN'T PHOTOS HOPPED
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T!1ese real pies are mind-blowing.
Seriously.
11/12/2012 4:02PM
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DEP. EX-75

CONS ES
Lies, Lies, and More Dirty Lies [hat the Government 'Jells Us
18\y Jesse Verlltura
with Dkk RusseH
Skyhorse Publishing
Ventura v. Kyle
usnc, Minn., 12-472
DX-75
Copyright C9 2010 by Jesse Ventura and Dick Russell
the express wrinen consent of the publisher, except in the case of brief excerpts in
critical reviews or anicles. All inquiries should be addressed to Skyhorse Publishing,
555 Eighth Avenue, Suite 903, New York, NY 10018.
Skyhorse Publishing books may be purchased in bulk at spechl discounts lor
sales promotion, corporate gifis, fund-raising, or educational purposes, Special
editions can also be created to specificarions. For details, conracr the Special Sales
Department, Sky horse Publishing, 555 Eighth Avenue, Suite 903, New York, NY
10018 or info@skyhorsepublishing.com.
www.skyhorsepublishing.com
10 9 8 7 G 5 43 2 l
Ventura, .Jesse.
American conspiracies : lies, lies, and more dirty lies that rhe government tells us I
by Jesse Ventura, with Dick Russell.
p. em.
includes bibliographical rcfen:nccs.
ISBN 978-1-60239-802-3 (hbk. : aile paper)
1. Conspiracies--United States. 2. Conspiracy theories--United States. I. Russell,
Dick. II. Title.
HV6285.V46 2010
973-dc22
2009052309
Pri.nted in the United States of America
CHAPTER 'TV\/ELVE
WHAT REALLY HAPPEl\! ED 01\l
SEPTEMBER '11?
THE 11\!CIDEI\I'l: On September 11, 2001, four airplanes were hijacked
on American soil and crashed into the Twin Towers, the Pentagon, and
a field in Pennsylvania.
THE OFFICIAL \1\/0RD: 'TI1e 19 hijackers were all fanatic Muslim
terrorists linked to al-Qaeda and its ringleader, Osarna bin Laden.
IVIY TAKE: Our government engaged in a massive cover-up of what
really happened, including its own ties to the hijackers. Unanswered
questions remain about how the towers were brought down, and
whether a plane really struck the Pentagon. 1he Bush Administration
either knew about the plan and allowed it to proceed, or they had a
hand in it themselves.
"lhe truth is incontrovertible. Ji.1alice may attack it;- ignorrmce nlt!JI
JaB' d7
7
"
aen .. e zt. ut m tne en .- nere tt zs . .. ,
-Wiriston Churchill
I was in my t:hird year as Minnesota's governor on September 11, 2001.
After the devastation of the Pentagon being hit and the Twin 1owers
ra.lling, I put the National Guard on alert and secured some of our public
buildings. The following Sunday morning, we were the first state to hold a
rnemorial for the nearly 3,000 victims. More than 40,000 people showed
up on the from lawn of the State Capitol, while a steady rain felL I'll never
forget Native American shamans beating drums alongside honor guards
who represented the police and firefighters and military. It still chokes me
AMERfCAN CONSPIRACIES
143
up to think about it. Looking out on hundreds of Hags fluttering in the
breeze, 1 remember saying at the end of rwo hours: "We will promote good
against evil. And finally, we will together restore our sense of freedom by
conquering this enemy!"
I never wanted to believe anything different than what our government
told us about that tragic day. But here is what John Farmer, a Senior Coun
sci for the 9/11 Commission who drafted the original report, has to say in
a new book: "At some level of the government, at some point in time ...
there was an agrccrnent not to tell the trurh about what happened."
1
What
more do we need? Arc we willing to live with another lie to go with the
Warren Reporr, the Iran-Contra cover-up, and many other "official"
stories?
I certainly never expected to think that elements of the Bush Adminis-
tration were complicitwith the enemy. 'loday, though, I am convinced that
some people inside our government knew the attack was going to happen
and allowed it to come to pass--because it furthered their political agenda.
I don't necessarily believe that they orchestrated it themselves, although
the door is definitely open to that. I say this after expending many hours
researching things about the official story that don't add up, and interview-
ing a number of witnesses with firsthand knowledge that contradicts what
we were told. As a patriotic American, I say this with a heavy heart-and
with an outrage that really knows no words. But it's something we, as a
nation, must come to terms with. Othc1wisc, it could happen again.
From day one, there was something that puzzled me. You had four
airplanes being hijacked on the same morning. Maybe the first one snuck
by the radar--but the next three? I'd been inside air traffic control, where
you've got a dozen people watching every plane in their sector. cll1ey
know what direction all the aircraft are supposed to be going, and here
were four planes going directly opposite of their normal flight path. But
we're supposed to believe that no alarm bells went off Lmywhere, so no
f-ighter jets got scrarnbled to intercept the planes. Was everybody asleep
at the switch? How could the FAA and our air defenses experience such a
Ill iserable failure?
I want to tell you a short story about: a guy named Charles Lewis, who
my writing colleague Dick Russell interviewed recently in Southern
California. Until two months before September 11, Lewis had worked at
144 JESSE VENTURA
LAX as the Quality Control Manager for Kiewit Pacific Construction on
its Taxiway "C" project. A large part of his duties involved security in the
Airport Operations Area, or AOA. 'D1ere he got to know employees of
various agencics--the LA World Airport Police, the LAPD, California
Highway Patrol, the FBI, U.S. Customs, and others.
When the 9/11 attacks occurred, Lewis was a deputy inspector fbr the
city of LA during a seismic retrofit of the LA Hilton Towers Hotel, only a
few minutes fiom the airport by car. After making sure the hotel construc-
tion crew went home, Lewis rushed over to LAX's Guard Post 2, because
he was one of very few people who knew how to fix certain pans of the
new security systems in case any problems developed.
Lewis estimates he arrived at about 6:35AM (PT--9:35 AM Eastern),
not long after the second plane struck the Worlcl'Tiade Center. As on other
days, there was "chatter" on LAX.Securitywalkie-talkies and he could eas-
ily hear what they were saying, sometimes both sides of the conversation.
Lewis remembers: ""I11c first thing I noticed was that the guards-and
that day they were the LA World Airport Police and the FBI-were very
upset and agitated because apparently no one [from FAA] had notified
NORAD [North American Aerospace Defense Command]. 'Ibey were
making calls and demanding to know why not. Eventually word came
back that NORAD had indeed been notified, but they had been ordered
to stand down.l11en LAX Security wanted to know who could have made
that order. And word came back that it was from the highest level of the
White House. Later on., watching television, I knew the order didn't come
from Bush because he was reading 'My Pet Goat' to the school kids in
Florida, so the only other person it could be was Dick Cheney.""
I l
" " at 1 I
t turns out t 1ere were some war games t cmg p ace t 1at mornmg.
September 11 waB the second day of Vigilant Guardian, an exercise of the
Joint Chiefs and NORAD that simulated planes being hijacked in the
Northeastern United States. Another drill, called Northern Vigilance, had
shifted some fighter jets to Canada and Alaska to monitor Russian MIGs fly
ing training missions. This one put "phantoms" on militaty radar screens that
would look real to the participants in the exercise. "\.'Ve fought many phan-
toms that clay," Richard Myers of rhe Joint Chiefs later testified to Congress.
BLJtcould the attack have been scheduled intentionally to coincide with
those war games? If so, this raises a couple of questions. Either there was
AMERICAN CONSPIRACIES
145
a major intelligence leak, whereby the terrorists realized the war games
would be a good cover for their operation. Or else some people in the
administration knew of the attack ahead of time and let it proceed simul-
caneously, knowing the confusion this would cause.
Between September 2000 and June 200 I, on 67 different occasions
fighter jets were sent t:o intercept aircraft that had lost radio contact or
their transponder signal or were Hying off. course, usually within ten min-
utes of any sign of a problem.
3
(Contrary to what some people think,
presidential approval wasn't needed to intercept or even shoot down an
aircraft.) 1hen, on June 1, 2001, the existing hijacking response proce-
dures were changed ro require approval by the secretary of defense before
responding to a situation with lethal force.
1
And when the call came into
the Pentagon on 9/11, nobody answered the phone!
'l11e stand-down order that Charles Lewis heard about was confirmed
by none other than Norman Mineta, transportation secretary at the time.
According to the 9/ll Commission, Cheney didn't arrive underground
at the PEOC (Presidential Emergency Operations Center) until almost
10 AM. Min eta, however, said the Vlce President was already down there
when he arrived at about 9:20AM. Richard Clarke and Cheney's photog
rapher indicated the same thing. 'That was before the Pentagon had been
hit, and Min eta recalled a young man coming into the PEOC three times
to tell Cheney how far out the plane was hom Washington. After the third
report, according to Mineta, the young fellow asked, "Do the orders still
stand?" and Cheney responded, "Of course the orders still stand. Have
you heard anything to the contrary?" 'lhe 9/11 Commission chose to
ignore Mineta's testimony and went so far as to remove it from the video
archive. Instead, they had Cheney ordering, almost 15 minutes later than
Minet:a said, the inbound aircraft be shot down. Except, by then, all four
planes had already gone down.
5
11ut was cover-up number one by the 9/11 Commission. Now let's
look at whether it was actually those two planes that were responsible
for the falling towers. I was amazed, watching the 2007 version of the
documentary J:oose cfJtmge (which I urge everyone to see), at the many
firefighters and other eyewitnesses who talked about a whole series of
explosions before and during the collapse of the buildings. All of this was
reported on the news at the time. Before the South Tower collapsed, video
146 JESSE VENTURA
f<Jotage clearly shows sizable amounts of white smoke starting to pour out
of the base. 111ere was described a "giant rolling ball of flame" that came
up from sn:eet level; an elevator that exploded on the 65th floor as some-
one stood beside it; a woman on the 49th floor seeing people with burns
and broken arms in the stairwells. "For every window in the lobby to be
exploding ... it wasn't from the jet fuel, no way," according to one of the
witnesses. And a whole lot more that did not jive with any plane striking
the building. Barry Jennings, the city's emergency coordinator, was at the
scene before and after the building colhpses. puts it out there
plainly: "I know what I heard. I heard explosions."
6
For my TV show, I interviewed a witness named William Rodriguez, a
janitor who happened to have a master key and rescued many people and
got honored at the White House as a national hero. He says that shortly
before American Airlines Flight 11 struck the North Tower at 8:46AM, an
explosion simultaneously rocked the building so hard "it pushed us up."
Rodriguez later testified behind closed doors to the 9111 Commission, but
his name was never mentioned in the report. Rodriguez also gave the com-
mission and the FBI a list oHourreen people who'd been with him, but not
a single one was ever contacted. He produced his boss for us, who looked
me right in the eye and in essence told m.e the same swry. What's happened
to Rodriguez today? He's on the no-fly list. A guy who went back in to save
people, with no regard for his own life! When he goes somewhere, he's
pulled out of the line, interrogated, harassed. All because, I guess, he didn't
. l " . " 1 d
grve t 1c proper tesumony t 1eywame .
Some people have argued that the twin towers went down, within a half
hour of one another, because of the way they were constructed. Well, those
425,000 cubic yards of concrete and 200,000 tons of steel were designed
to hold up against a Boeing 707, the largest plane built at the time the
towers were completed in 1973. Analysis had shown that a 707 traveling
at 600 miles an hour (and those had four engines) would not cause major
damage. 'The twin-engine Boeing 75'/s that hit on 9/11 were going 440
and 550 miles an hour?
Still, we are told that a molten, highly intense fuel mixture f!om the
planes brought down these two steel-framed skyscrapers. Keep in mind
that no other such skyscraper in history had ever been known to collapse
completely due to fire damage. So could it actually have been rhe result
147
of a comrolled demolition from inside the buildings? I don\ claim exper-
tise about this, but I did work four years as part of the navy's underwater
demolition teams, where we were trained to blow things to hell and high
water. A11d my staff talked at scmte length with a prominent physicist,
Steven E. Jones, who says that a "gravity driven collapse" without demoli-
tion charges defies the laws of physics. 'These buildings fdl, at nearly the
rate of free-fall, straight down imo their own footprint, in approxinlatdy
ten seconds. An object dropped from the roof of the 11 0-story-tall towers
would reach the ground in about 9.2 seconds. 'Ill en there's the fact that
steel beams that weighed as much as 200,000 pounds got tossed laterally
as far as 5 00 feet.
The National Institute of Standards and 'H:chnology (NIS'I') starred its
investigation on August 21, 2002. \1\fhen their 1 0,000-pagc-long report
came om three years later, the spokesman said there was no evidence w
suggest a controlled demolition. But Steven E. Jones also says that molten
metal found underground weeks later is proof that jet fuel couldn't have
been all that was responsible. I visited the site about three weeks after
9/1 I, with Governor Pataki and my wife, 'Terry. It didn't mean anything
to me at the time, but they had to suspend digging rhat day because they
were running into heat pockets of huge temperatures. ll1ese fires kept
burning tor more than three months, the longesr-burning structure blaze
ever. And this was all due t.o jet fuel? We're talking molten metal more
than 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit.
8
Probably the most conclusive evidence about a con trolled demolition is
a research paper (two years, nine authors) published in the peer-reviewed
Open Chemical P!Jysics}ounwl, in April 2009. In studying dust samples
from the site, these scientists found chips of nano--t:hermite, which is a
high-tech incendiary/explosive. Here's what t:he paper's lead author,
Dr. Niels Harritofthe UniversityofCopenhagen's chemistry department,
had to say about the explosive rhat he's convinced brought down the 'Twin
Towers and the nearby Building 7:
"'TI1cnnite itself dates back to 1893. It is a mixture of aluminum and
rust-powder, which react: to create intense heat. TI1e reaction produces
iron, heated to 2500 degrees Centigrade. 'This can be used to do welding.
It can also be used to melt other iron. So in nano-thermite, this pow-
der from 1893 is reduced to tiny particles, perfectly mixed. When these
---------
148 JESSE VENTURA
react, the intense heat develops much more quickly. Nano-thennite can
be mixed with additives to give off intense heat, or serve as a very efFec-
tive explosive. It contains more energy than dynamite, and can be used as
rocket fucl."
9
Richard Gage is one of hundreds of credentialed architects and struc
mral engineers who have put their careers on the line to point out the
detailed anomalies and many implications of controlled demolition in
the building collapses. As he puts it bluntly: "Once you get to the science,
it's indisputablc."
10
So what happened to the steel debris from the World Trade Center that
might have backed this up? \Veil, fc)r the most part it was shipped overseas.
'il1e removal by four companies contracted by the city was carefully con-
trolled and monitored. The building assessment performance team wasn't
allowed to take samples.
11
One firefighter I spoke with, who got dug out
of the rubble on 9/11, said: "'The one thing that always troubled me is,
why were they in such a hurry to remove all the evidence? Why did they
take away everything fi-om the site as fast and expediently as possible?"
I tried to talk to someone from the 9/11 Commission, but got turned
down multiple times. They simply said, we stand by our report. I also
tried to speak with Mayor Giuliani, but he refused also. We recently
learned, through the D.A. of Manhattan's testimony in a court case,
that: the city of New York did nothing to investigate 9/ll. "fl1ar tells me
Giuliani was norhing bur a straw man. Why is he paraded around as this
big hero when he really had nothing to do with it, other than be a 6g-
urehead? Again, I ask what happened to stare and local laws. I-fomicides
are supposed to be investigated by the jurisdiction where they happen.
Wbo has the power to suspend all those laws and make them irrelevant,
turning it into an investigation completely comrolled by the feels? Seems
that they feel they're above us. \Xlework now for the government, not the
other way around. That's not the way this counrry was founded. I think
we have a right to know who ran that investigation, so we can properly
critique it.
I wanted to ask Mayor Giuliani specifically about the collapse ofBuild-
ing 7, late on the afternoon of the attacks. If all these buildings arc f.'llling
as a result of fires, shouldn't we be changing the way we build them? In
this case, you had Building 7 that wasn't struck by anything. I went to
AMERICAN CONSPIRACIES 149
the BBC and got the footage where a reporter is standing in front of it,
incongruously saying that it's already come down--almost a half-hour
before it did! I tried to talk to the reporter, bm the BBC turned me down,
explaining that that day was extremely hectic and they're not part of any
conspJracy.
A few hours before the attack, for some reason Building 7's alarm sys-
tem went on test status. The power was shut off and all tenants evacuated
after the second plane hit. People were reporting major fires on the cast,
north, and west faces that covered abom six of che floors. One witness,
Michael Hess, reported a major explosion on the sixth floor and being
trapped for 90 minutes two floors above that, until he was rescued by the
fire department.
Well, just like the Twin Towers, the 47-story Building 7 fell
symmetrically into its own footprint (in 6.5 seconds), sending the same
type of pyro-plastic cloud down the surrounding streets that demoli-
tion is known to cause. Keep in mind that other nearby buildings with
much worse damage never collapsed. Not Building 3, which was split
in half by the South Tower's debris. Not Building 4, otherwise almost
completely destroyed. Not Buildings 5 or 6, which suffered severe fires
and structure dam.age. And they were much smaller than Building 7,
where 81 columns all had to collapse at the sarne time due to fires on
just a few floors. So why did Building 7 come down as it did? What's
being covered up?
I've got questions about the attack on the Pentagon also. Getting back
ro Charles Lewis and what he heard that morning on the walkie-talkies
out at LAX: 1l1e security guards referred to a "missile" having hit the Pen-
tagon. "I was kinda puzzled," Lewis says, "because by the time the airport
had been evacuated and I got home, the missile that had hit the Pentagon
had mysteriously changed to being another plane. I couldn't figure that
out, because I didn't take the FBI or the LA World Airport Police to be
putting on a pageant for me."
12
Of course, officially it was American Airlines Flight: 77 that crashed
into rhe ground floor at 9:37AM. Only a section of the Pentagon that had
been reinforced to withstand a terrorist attack was hit. Anywhere else, the
damage and the casualties would have been much worse.
13
Left behind by
a plane 1 00-some feet wide was a hole 16 feet deep, but no evidence to
150 JESSE VENT'URA
accompany it, which is something that ftmner air force fighter pilot Russ
Wittenberg says he'd never seen happen. Captain Wittenberg also says
that jet engines do not leave a trail of white smoke, as was seen at the
Pentagon. "We don't know what it was, but you can tell what it wasn't,"
according w Wittenberg. And he believes it wasn't a 757 aircraft.
14
Another doubter is Major General Alben Srubblcbine, 1ctired Com-
manding General of rhe U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command,
who was responsible for the army's strategic intelligence sources world-
wide. "I have had a lot ofexpcriencc looking at photographs," St:ubblebinc
says. "I don't know exactly what hit it [the Pentagon], but I do know from
the photographs I have analyzed, it was not an airplane. For one thing, if
you look at the hole rhac was made in the Pentagon, the nose penetrated
far enough so that there should have been wing marks on the side [of the
building). One person counteracted my theory and said, 'Oh, you've got
it all wrong, the airplane came across, one wing hit the ground and broke
ofE' Which is possible, but if I understand airplanes correctly, most of
them have two wings. So there should have been a mark for the second
one."
15
Stubblebine also believes the Twin Towers were brought down by
a controlled demolition.
"How could a Boeing 757, with its engines extending beneath its
wings, have struck the Pentagon so low without damaging the lawn and
destroying the large cable spools on the ground in front of the damaged
area?" asks 9/11 expert David Ray Griffin, a California professor and the
author of eight books exploring the contradictions of the official 9/11
story. Griffin also dtes the observation of Karen Kwiatkowski, then an air
force lieutenant colonel employed at the Pentagon, who saw "no airplane
metal or cargo debris."
1
(;
Here's what troubled me: the law was immediately and completely bro-
ken there. 'They had military personnel out on the lawn cleaning every-
thing up, before an investigator ever arrived. 'I11ose hasty cleanups now
seem to be Standard Operating Procedure when it comes to assassinations
and events like 9/11, don't they. Whenever there's a plane crash, things
are strewn about. So where are the sears, the luggage? 'The wings, verti-
cal stabilizers, and engines were never f!Jlly recovered. A number of parts
to a 757 are pretty much indestructible, but not a single piece has ever
been positively identified as originating with Flight 77. The Departmenr
151
of Justice has admitted to having 85 videos, but they've reftrsed a Freedom
ofinformation Act request to release them.
Another expert we communicated with is Colonel George Nelson, who
during 30 years of commissioned service in the air force served as an air-
craft accident investigation board member. Colonel Nelson says: "With
all the evidence readily available at the Pentagon crash site, any unbiased
rational investigator could only conclude that a Boeing 757 did not Hy
into the Pentagon as alleged .... In all my years of dirccr and indirect
part:icipation, I never wimesscd nor even heard of aircratl: loss, where
the wreckage was accessible, that prevented investigators from finding
enough hard evidence to positively identify the make, model, and specific
registration number of the airnah-and in most cases the precise cause of
the accident."
17
Then there's the background on the pilot. His name was Charles
"Chic" Burlingame, and he was not only well-schooled in martb.l arts,
but a retired T'op Gun pilot, the best of the best. All his friends said there's
no way he'd give up his plane, it wasn't in the man's makeup. Unless the
hijackers got to him and killed him-but with box cutters? Supposedly, a
hijacker named Hanjour got control ofthe plane. Except, later, his Hight
instructor described I-!anjour as barely being able to handle a single-
engine Cessna a month earlier. And Flight 77 is said to have made a com-
plicated 330-degree turn, dropping 7,000 feet, executing a maneuver that
experienced pilots say is nearly impossible.
18
'The section of the Pentagon that was struck happened to be the head-
quarters for naval operations and intelligence, as well as housing quite
a few accountants and budget analysts. Important Pentagon financial
information disappeared in the aftermath of the attack.
19
So it's quite a
coincidence that, just the day before, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld had
announced publicly: "According to son1e estimates, we cannot track $2.3
trillion in t:ransactions."
20
'lhat's right, not million, not even billion, that
was trillion,
Flight 77 disappeared from the FAA radar screen at 8:56AM, when
it made an unauthorized turn to the south somewhere near the
Kentucky-Ohio border. 'I11e only evidence that the plane was still fly-
ing and headed toward Washington were two phone calls that Ted
Olson said he received from his wife Barbara on board, not long before
---------------
152 JE.SSE VENTURA
the Pentagon strike. Ted Olson was a longtime Republican operative
who spearheaded the legal effort for Bush in Florida after the disputed
2000 election, and then went to work in the Justice Department as
Solicitor GeneraL 1-:Iis wife was the only person who's reported to have
mentioned box cutters. According to Olson, she said that "all passen-
gers and Hight personnel, including the pilots, were herded to the back
of the plane by armed hijackers." Yup, 60-somc people (including a
weightliftcr pilot), being held off by a few short, slender guys holding
knives and boxcutters.
At first, Olson said the calls were made from Barbara's cell phone.
Except, high-altimde cell phone calls were pretty much impossible in
2001. Olson then changed his story to claim she'd used an on board phone
to make a collect call. Except, American Airlines didn't have such phones
on the Boeing 757s. Here's what the FBI reported in 2006, at the trial
of Zacarias Moussaoui (the so-called twentieth hijacker): Barbara Olson
made only one call, an "unconnected call" that lasted "0 seconds."
21
So what's going on? Captain Wirrenberg has said that, if Flight 77 was
actually ofF the radar screen for 36 minutes, then it was no longer air-
borneY Did it land in some remote field, while something else---maybe
the missile Charles Lewis heard about at LAX--hit the Pentagon's fin<m-
cialrecords area?
lhis probably sounds tar-fetched, if not crazy, until you consider that
clements of our military had an eerily similar plan ready to roll back in
the early 1960s. It was called Opewtion Northwoods .. first described in
a book published in 2001, Body ofSecrets by James Bamford. Operation
Northwoods was approved by the Joint h i e f ~ of StafF for action against
Castro's Cuba-"what may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the
U.S. government," as Bamford put it. The Kennedy brothers seemed to be
going soft on Castro, so the generals came up with a number of"terrorist"
schemes to launch a war.
Bamford tells us: "Among the most elaborate schemes was to 'create
an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft
has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner.' ... An aircraft: at
Elgin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for
a civil registered aircraft .... At a designated time the duplicate would
be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the
AMERICAN CONSPLRACIES
153
selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The
actual registered aircraft would he converted to a drone [a remotely
controlled unmanned aircraft]. Take off times of the drone aircraft
and the actual aircraft will be scheduled ro allow a rendezvous south of
Florida.
"From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend
to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Elgin AFB
where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and
return the aircraft to its original status. 'I11e drone aircrafc meanwhile will
continue to Hy the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will be
transmitting on the internal distress frequency a 'May Day' message stat-
ing he is under attack by Cuban MiG aircraft. 'l11e transmission will be
interrupted by destruction of the aircraft, which will be triggered by radio
signal."
23
If you're interested, you can read the whole plan on the Web site
of the National Security Archive.
Now let's examine the anomalies around the last plane, United Airlines
Flight 93 that crashed in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, reportedly at 10:0:3
AM and 20 minutes away from W.1shingr.on. '111e official story made me
proud to be an American: The passengers overcame the hijackers and sac-
rificed their lives, so that others might be spared. Back to Charles Lewis
again at: LAX that morning: "They said fighter jets had been scrambled
hom two different military bases, and that they had shot down the plane
over Pennsylvania. And that was w;ty before we got the hero story."
21
'fhc f-irst news reports expressed surprise at how little debris was visible
at the crash site. 'Ihe Pennsylvania state Web site even said it was hard to
believe that a 757 plunged into the ground with such force that it literally
disintegrated and created a still-smoldering crater in the ground. Then,
live days later, CNN News reponed "apparently another debris site" that
had been cordoned off six to eight miles away. 'lhis, the commentator
said, "raises a number of questions, why ... could it have blown that far
aV\ray-?25
"l11e FBI immediately took over the investigation, and for a long time
wouldn't honor family members' requests, asking if they could listen to
the cockpit voice recorder. This was finally allowed on April 18, 2002,
provided they'd agree not to reveal anything about what they heard. And,
for some reason, the last three minutes weren't on there. Barry Lichty, the
154 JESSE VENTURA.
mayor of rhe nearby town of Indian Lake, says he heard what sounded
like a missile fire that morning. Ule military did admit, some years later,
that it was tracking Flight 93 and a Colonel Robert MatT recalled hear-
ing that "we will take lives in the air to preserve lives on the ground." He
then ordered the air controllers to have fighter jets intercept the plane.
Bnt supposedly, the commercial flight crashed before that could happen.
"Of course we never fired upon the plane," said Dick Cheney, "we just
witnessed an act ofheroism."
26
'l11c official story is that, for the f1rst time in history, rhe black boxes
vvcre not recovered. Not fimn any of the four planes. For the TV pilot l
did about 9/11 on tmTV, we spoke to a guy who knew about the existence
of three black boxes. He physically saw one, and his parmer saw two more.
lie says they were taken away in a black government van. Another thing
I find very interesting: Also for the first time in history, no attempt was
made to reconstruct the planes with whatever parts they could f1nd. They
even did this with TWA Flight 800 that went: down in 1996 in the Atlan-
tic, and for that they had to dive down 1,200 feet.
After Pearl Harbor, General Martin Short and some admirals were fired
because of their alleged negligence. After 9/11, not a single employee at
the FAA or NORAD got punished. In fact, all the major military men
involved received promotions. 'TI1ey included General Richard Myers,
who was named Chairman of the Joint Chiefs on October 1.
'TI1e way I see it, with all the advance warnings about a terrorist attack,
a E<ir number of Bush's team should have gotten the axe. Except, right up
to the president him.self, it was all about denial. Here was Bush in 2004:
"Had I had any inlding whatsoever that the people were going to fly air-
planes into buildings, we would have moved heaven and earth to save the
country;" Here was Rumsfeld, testifying before the 9/11 Commission: "I
knew of no intelligence during the six-plus months leading up to Septem-
ber ll to indicate terrorists would hijack commercial airlines, use them
as missiles to By into the Pentagon or the \Vorld Trade Center towers."
And here was Condolcezza Rice: "'This kind of analysis about the usc of
airplanes as weapons actually was never briefed to us."
27
Oh really? What about rhe intelligence brief1ng Bush received on
August 6, 2001, that was headed "Bin Laden Determined ro Strike in
U.S." and even mentioned possible hijackings/
8
Or ConcH Rice being
155
warned about al-Qaeda's plotting by then-CIA Direcror George 'lcnct
on July 10, 2001, but brushing him ofP
9
1hc 9111 Commission was
aware of this, but decided to leave it out if their report. 'The CIA's
counterintelligence chieC J, Cofer Black, later "felt there were things the
commission wanted to know about: and things they didn't want to know
about."
30
Rice responded: "What I am quite certain of is that I would
remember if I was told, as this account apparently says, that there was
about to be an attack in the United States, and the idea that I would some-
how have ignored that I find incomprehensible."ll Seems she stammered
over her words a little.
These were far from the only warnings. Israel sent two senior agents
of the Mossad to "Washington in August 2001 t:o '\llcrt the CIA and FBI
to the existence of a cell of as many as 200 terrorists said to be preparing
a big operatlon."
32
Eight months before the attacks, French intelligence
warned the U.S. in nine different reports about "Airplane Hijacking Plans
by Radicallslamists" connected to bin Laden and the T.1liban.
33
FBI agents
working out of the Minneapolis and Phoenix offices tried to alert their
superiors. Dr. Parke Godhey, an associate professor of computer science
at Toronto's York University, said under oath in a New York courtroom
that a longtime associate of his, Susan Lindauer, warned him several times
and as late as August 2001 "that we expected a major attack on the south-
ern part of.Manhattan, and that the attack would encompass the World
Trade Center," an attack "that would involve airplanes and possibly a
nuclear weapon." Lindauer, who says she was a ClA asset, claimed to have
made an attempt to inform John Ashcroft at the Justice Department, who
referred her to the Office ofCounter-'Ierrorism.
34
Which brings us to the whole c1uestion of the 19 alleged hijackers. Did
you ever wonder how our government came up with their identities so
fast? Even before the last plane crashed, the FBI was telling counter-
terrorism official Richard Clarke they had a list of the names.
15
It took two
years to get indictments on the Lockcrbie bombing, but not this time!
Except, on September 16, one of the supposed hijackers walked irito the
consulate in Saudi Arabia-he was actually a pilot for Saudi Airlines. On
September 22, one of the Flight 11 hijackers announcedhe was alive and
well.'T\vo more Saudi pilots did the same thing the next day. On September
27, CBS found hijacker Hamzi (Flight 77) working for an oil refinery in
156 JESSE VENTURA
Saudi Arabia. No matter. All these guys arc still on the list today as being
among the perpetrators.:>"
\XIhat evidence do we have then? Two days after the attacks, our
government said it was clear-cut that Osama bin Laden was the man
behind it all, and that the 'faliban in Afghanistan would soon be hand-
ing over its proof. Ten rnore days went by, at which time Colin Powell
said he'd soon show us the documentation. Meantime, in three separate
statements, bin Laden denied any involvement. On December 13, the
State Department released a video purporting to show him describing
the attacks, but before long a lot of people were questioning whether it
was authentic. On the day after Christmas, a Taliban official said he'd
attended Osama's ftmeral! But on the 27th of December came a bin
Laden video praising ai-Qaeda's successful hit on us. Another couple
years went by before a chird tape surfaced-October 29, 2004, a few
days before the presidential election (think "heightened terror aleH!")--
with a blatant taking offttll responsibility. However, as of]une 6, 2006,
the FBI said it had "no hard evidence connecting bin Laden to 9111."
He's been charged with several crimes related to terrorist attacks, but not
with 9/11 Y I find that very odd. Not one shred of evidence produced
in a courtroom that leads to the conclusion bin Laden spearheaded
these attacks. 111e justice system that works for anything else is sud-
denly suspended over terrorism.
We're led to believe that a hijacker's passport flew out of his pocket
when his plane hit the tmver, made it safely through 9,000 gallons of
jet: fuel, and landed to be found on a sidewalk a thousand feet below.
Another hijacker's ID supposedly turned up in the Pentagon wreckage,
one of a few pieces that survived. Meantime, awaiting discovery in rental
cars left behind at: Boston Logan and Washington Dulles airports, was
enough evidence to convict had they lived: an Arabic Hight manual, a
check made out to a Phoenix flight school, maps of Washington and
New York, and more.
38
Does this remind anyone else of Oswald leav-
ing behind a paper trail to his purchase of the rifle, or James Earl Ray
depositing his bundle full of incriminating evidence near rhe scene of the
crime? Alleged hijacker Mohamed Atta was first said to have left a rented
Mitsubishi at Boston Logan, but that story was later changed into a blue
or silver Nissan left in Portland, Maine. Didn't seem to matter which
15'7
vehicle, because both were said to be filled with box cutters and other
incriminating items.
'I11ese guys were all made out to be fanatic, Koran-toting Muslims ready
to die for Allah in a Holy War against America. Except, in their final days,
according to people who knew them, they were drinking, visiting strip
clubs, soliciting prostitUtes, and watching porno on the tube. Atta's girl-
friend said he liked to snort cocaine. Atta seemed to be all over the place
before 9/11: doing coke in Hollywood, Florida; living in Venice, Florida,
near the NSA; and in Harnburg, Germany.''''
Who some of the hijackers were really working for, at least once upon
a time, first came out in media tidbits. From Newsweele (September 15,
20()1): "U.S. military somces have given the FBI information that suggests
five of the alleged hijackers of the planes that were used in the terror attacks
received training at secure U.S. military installations in the 1990s." Same
day, New Yorle Times: "The Defense Department said Mr. Atta had gone to
the International Officers School at Maxwell Air Force Base in Alabama;
Mr. al-Omari to the Aerospace Medical School at Brooks Air Force Base
in Texas; and Mr. al-Ghamdi to the Defense Language Institute at the
Presidio in Monterey, Calif."
Well, our military's School of the Americas once helped train the Cen-
tral American death squads, so our providing lethal skills to terrorists--
excuse me, I mean "freedom fighters"-shouldn't come as a huge surprise.
But it gets stranger still. Two of the alleged hijackers rented an apartment
from and actually lived with FBI informants. 111e CIA had operational
interest in two of them, Nawaz al-Hazmi and K.halid al-Mihdhar. FBI
agents believed "that the agency was protecting Midhar and Hazmi
because it hoped to recruit them," or alternatively that "the CIA was nm-
ning a joint venture with Saudi intelligence" using thern.
40
"l11e CIA goes way back with these guys. They were recruited into the
secret war against the Soviets in Afghanistan, back in the late 1980s. In
fact, the term al-Qaeda is said to have been invented by the CIA to desig-
nate a database of recruits into the Mujahideen. Michael Springman was
head of the visa section at our embassy in.Jeddah it-om 1987 to 1989, and
he remembers granting visas to "terrorists" who'd been recruited by CIA
and sent for training to America. Some of them fought in Bosnia during
the '92 to '95 period. Springman can be seen in the documentary Zero
158 JESSE VENTURA
saying that many of the hijackers he read about in the L.A. Times were
once on his visa list in Jeddah. He called the FBI a number of times, who
Springman says responded: "We'll get back to you. Six years later I'm still
' . l)hj
w ~ u t m g
Osama bin Laden himself stnrted out helping the CIA in Afghanistan.
In 2009, a former FBI translator named Sibel Edmonds dropped a bomb-
shell."" 'The U.S., she said, had kept up "intimate relations" with bin Laden
"all the way until that day of September 11 "--using him sometimes for
opsin central Asia, includingXinjiang, China. 'The process Edmonds out-
lined involved the use ofThrkcy (with assistance of"actors from Pakistan,
and Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia") as proxies, with those folks in turn
employing bin Laden and the Taliban. 'The goals? Control of the huge
energy supplies in Central Asia, f<)r one. Maybe the real reason we invaded
Afghanistan? Sibel Edmonds testif1cd for three and a half hours to the
9/11 Commission, but it ended up being classifiecL
43
Bin Laden, like 15 of the 19 alleged hijackers, came from Saudi Arabia.
Back in October 2003, an article in \hnity Fair had questioned the FBI's
letting six planes of Middle Eastern nationals----most of them members
of the Saudi royal family-fly out of the U.S. soon after 9/11. 'I11e 9/11
Commission concluded that, after the Saudi government requested this
out of fear for their safery, the FBI had "conducted a satisfactory screen-
ing of Saudi nationals who left the United States." But one of those planes
stopped f-our times at different locations around the U.S. on September
19, picking up halfsiblings and other bin Laden relatives who supposedly
had no connection to him. Finally, in 2007, :1. heavily censored FBI report
said: ""lbe plane was chartered either by the Saudi Arabian Royal Family
or Osama bin Ladcn."
44
Osama? You mean to tell me the ringleader of the
9111 attacks might have been chartering a plane on our soil eight days
after this happened?
It just gets curio user and curio user, in the words of Lewis Carroll fi-orn
Alice in Womler!tmd. FBI Director Robert Mueller testified about how the
terrorists managed to finance themselves, saying that they'd had all their
money wired in small amounts to avoid being detected. Except, it came out
that General Mahmoud Ahmad, the head of Pakistan's ISI int.elligence ser-
vice, had ordered one of his agents to wire transfer $100,000 to Mohamed
Atta.The lSI and the CIA's relationship dates back to the 1980s when the
159
Mujahideen got set up. Ahmad, as it happened, had come to "Washington a
week before the attacks for a meeting with CIA chiefGeorgc Tenet and some
people from Bush's National Sccuri ty Coundl.
45
A
6
When the story came out
about the wire transJ:\:r to Atta, Ahmad abruptly retired hom the IS I.
The families of many 9/11 victims have gone to court seeking evidence
of the Saudi royal family's bankrolling of al-Qaeda. Senator Bob Graham
wrote a book that discussed the 28-page section about Saudi Arabia that
the CIA, FBI, and NSA had blacked out of his committee's report. In
the book, Graham noted ties between the hijackers and the Saudis and
flatly stated that "the White House was directing the cover-up" to protect
''America's relationship with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia."
47
Ever heard of an army project called Able Danger? It was established in
1999 as part of the Defense Department's Special Operations Command
(SOCOM). According to Colonel Anthony Shaffer, a leading member
of the team with the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA): "Able Danger
was an offensive counter-terrorism project which was designed to take
and kill-the military term is reduce-senior al-Qaeda leadership."
48
It
wasn't long bef()J:e the Able Danger squad uncovered al-Qaeda cells in the
New York Ciry area, one of whose members was Mohamed Atra. At least
six witnesses later recalled seeing Atta's picture on a chart they'd drawn up
back in January 2000. 'H1rns out three more of the alleged hijackers had
been ID' ed by Able Danger before 9/11, as well.
49
Colonel Shaffer worked closely with navy captain Scott Phillpott, and
says he attempted to set up a meeting between Phillpott's superior officer
and FBI counterterrorism agents in D.C., so they could work together on
following these cells. But three times the SO COM lawyers kept a meeting
from happening. Soon after that, Shaffer got transferred to a DIA project
in Latin America.
50
Then, after 9/11, he and Phillpott tried to bring the story fonvard
to Congress and the 9/J 1 Commission. In June 2005, a reporter for a
small-town Pennsylvania paper wrote a piece thar opened with: "Two
years before the Sept:. 11, 20()1, attacks, US intelligence officials linked
Mohamed Atta to al-Qaida, and discovered he and two others were in
Brooklyn." Y<m might think the national media would have jumped all
over that, but they didn't. Eventually, the New York Times did a few stories.
But when the 9/11 Commission came up with reasons for leaving Able
160 .JESSE VENTURA
Danger our ofits report, the media nodded off again. Chairman 'l11omas
Keen went so far as to say that "the recollections of the intelligence officers
cannot be verified by any document." Hence, it didn't happen, And the
Pentagon wouldn't let Shafi(;r or anyone else testify bcf()re the Senate Judi-
ciarv Committee, 5I
'
We talked to Shafter while putting together this chapter. In his opin-
ion, both the Clinton and Bush administrations were covering up their
incompetence. "'The Department ofDdense does not want to get blamed
for making bad decisions, which resulted in information not being passed
w the FBI, and theref(lre being a material EKtor in why 9/11 happened,"
he told us. "'That's why you h;ld DOD coming after me because I blew the
whistle. DOD has admitted there are 1 0,000-plus Able Danger docu
ments, but they won't release a single one. TcJ me that's bizarre, because
rnost of the targeting information was clone on the open Internet and
completely unclassified. It docs cause you to wonder."
9/11 expert David Ray GriHin concluded that the commission and the
Pentagon were "covering up dangerous information-infcmnation that
suggested Ana was being protected. When we combine this observation
with other things we have leamed about tbe alleged hijackers-including
the money reportedly sent to Atta by the CIA-created [Pakistani] lSI-
the Able Danger evidence provides additional reason to suspect that the
'hijackers' were really paid assets."
52
A think tank called the Project for the New American Centmy, com
posed mainly of right-wing ideologues, wrote a report pre-9/11 titled
Building m c r i c a ~ r Defenses. '1l1e document contains this line: "'l11e pro-
cess of transf(nmation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to
be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event-like a new
Pearl Harbor."
We all know the results of 9/11: two unending wars, in Afghanistan
and Iraq. Remember the Gulf ofTonkin incident in 1964? We were told
that American ships were attacked by the North Vietnamese. Now we
know that the incident was manufactured by the Pentagon in order to
gain support for escalating the Vietnam War. lf the United States govern-
ment was prepared to stage such a gargantuan event in leading our nation
to war then, why would they refrain from doing so again today? Might we
look at this as a trend, going imo these wars under false pretenses'
AMERICAN CONSPIRACIES 161
Richard A. Clarke, national coordinator for security and counterter-
rorism at the time, wrote in 2009 that Iraq was "a move that many senior
Bush officials had wanted to make bdi:ne 9/ll. ... While the Pentagon
was still burning, Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld was in the White
House suggesting an attack against Baghdad .... Despite being repeat-
edly told that Iraq was not involved in 9/ ll, some, like Cheney could not
abandon the idca."
53
'The 9/11 Commission Report states that: "the Bush Administration
had repeatedly tied the Iraq War to September 11th .... 1l1e panel finds
no al-Qaeda-Iraq tie." Bush then did some backpedaling, saying: ""111is
administration never said that the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated between
Saddam [Hussein] and al-Qaeda. We did say there were numerous con-
tacts .... " Meetings, it rurned out, between bin Laden and Iraqi Intelli-
gence that took place in Sudan back in the mid-1990s! But one prisoner,
Ibn al-Sheild1 al-Libi, was tortured in 2002 until he'd agree to say that
al-Q,1eda was linked to Saddam (he died suddenly after being transferred
from Egypt to another prison in Libya).
'l11e 9/11 Commission was a whitewash from the front, after Bush and
Cheney had stonewalled an investigation for more than a year. 111e fel-
low named as the first commission chairman was none other than Henry
Kissinger, who said no thank you on December 13, 2002, when told that
he'd have to disclose his list of private business clients (Kissinger was also
busy advising the Bush Administration on how best to go into Iraq).111e
commission's executive director ended up being Philip Zdikow, who got a
jump on the game by putting together a detailed outline of the final report
just as they were starting to investigate! 1he outline was kept secret from
others on the SO-member staff. 5
1
Zelikow decided everything. After all,
back in 1998 he'd co-written an essay on "catastrophic terrorism," which
he foresaw "would be a watershed event in American history .... Like Pearl
Harbor, this event would divide our past and future into a before and
after. The United States might respond with draconian measures, scaling
back civil liberties, allowing wider surveillance of citizens, detention of
suspects, and use of deadly force."
55
Sound familiar?
Zelikow had also been principal author of a paper aimed at justif},ing
a preemptive strike on Iraq. And he tried, without success, to insert a
sentence inco the report suggesting repeated communication between
162 JE.S.SE VENTURA
al-Qacda and Iraq.
56
Zelikow happened to leave off his resume the hct
that, at Concli RJce's request, he'd been pare of the Bush transition team.
But then, he'd coauthored a book with l:Zice, too. Zelikow engaged in
"surreptitious" communications with Kad Rove in the course of the
investigationY \lVith Zelikow running the show, "there was no hope that
the eornmission would carry out an impartial investigation."''
8
It recently
came out that there were "minders" from Bush's team sitting there with
the witnesses, answering questions for them and positioning themselves
physically in an intimidating manner. ~
rl11e 9/11 Commission politely informs us thar "conspiracy theories
play a peculiar role in American discourse. Whenever there is a particu-
larly surprising, traumatic, and influential moment in our history, people
are left with unsettling questions." As an example, they go on to cite "con-
spiracy theorists [who] propagate outrageous notions that Kennedy was
assassinated by the CIA or some shadowy secret society of the rich and
powerful."
Outrageous notions? I find it outrageous that yet another government-
appointed commission allows itself to become part of the cover-up.
Especially when they knew damned well that's what they were doing.
"1he l 0-member commission, in a secret meeting at the end ofits tenure
in summer 2004, debated referring the matter to the Justice Department
for criminal investigation, according to several commission sources.
Staff members and some commissioners thought that e-mails and orher
evidence provided enough probable cause to believe that mill tary and avi-
ation officials violated the law by making false statements to Congress and
to the commission."
60
The 9/11 Commission's Chairman 'I1wmas Kean, and Vice Chair Lee
Hamilton, have since con1e out and said:" ... the recent revelations that the
CJ .A. destroyed videotape interrogations of Qaeda operatives leads us to
conclude that the agency f:ailcd to respond to our lawful requests f{)! infor-
mation about the 9/11 plot. "flwsewho knew about those videotapes-and
did not tell us about them-obstructed our invcstigation."
61
Now we know
from the new book hy senior counsel John Farmer that almost every person
involved in the official version of9/lllied about the events of that day.
Our country bas changed since 9/ll. \Y/e've been l:i-ightened into half
the people saying torture's okay now, if it prevents terrorism. Americans
163
are marching in the streets to try to stop someone who's sick fiom going to
the doctor, but where is the outcry now that it's been proven that the whole
Iraq War was trumped up? Maybe something stopped in us all on 9/11,
and we're stuck back there collectively and can't truly move forward until
we have a new, independent investigation t:o get to the bottom of what
really happened.
The 9/11 Truth Movement has a growing number of groups--Political
Leaders, Architects and Engineers, Firci1ghters, Lawyers, Medical Pro-
fessionals, Pilots, Religious Leaders, Scholars, Scientists, Journalists and
Other Media, and Veterans. Check them out online, get involved as l
have. But if you challenge the status quo, be prepared for retaliation. 'D1at's
what seems to have happened to Charles Lewis, the man with whom we
began this chapter's revelations. After he noticed another lapse at LAX as
a Quality Control Manager-this time observing a Saudi Airlines 747
disembark a host of passengers into the cargo area-his security clearance
got revoked. He's currently unemployed.
---
\1\/HAf SHOULD WE DO 1\J0\1\/?
When enough people came to question the \l(!arren Commission,
the door was opened for Congress to do a further investigation and
come to a different conclusion about the Kennedy assassination. 'That
should be precedent enough, now that it's become clear the 9/11
Commission was a whitewash, for Americans to call for a new and
honest investigation into the greatest attack ever perpetrated on our
soil. Was our own government asleep at the switch, or might it even
have played a role in what happened? It's time to demand an answer, as
independent truth-seeking groups from many walks of life are already
calling for.
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

Conducted a daylight helo raid on 13 February, killing three VC and destroying a

Attacked an enemy base on 20 February, killing one Chinese propaganda officer

Killed eight VC and captured numerous weapons on 24 February.

Killed 3 VC aboard four sampans on 12 May.

Form A - U.S. Cities or Towns

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