Thucydides

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For other uses, see Thucydides (disambiguation).

Bust of Thucydides residing in theRoyal Ontario Museum, Toronto

Thucydides (/jusddiz/; Ancient Greek: !"!#$#%&, Thoukudds; c' ()* + c' ,-. B/0 1as a Greek historian and Athenian general' 2is History of the Peloponnesian War recounts the .th century B/ 1ar 3et1een 45arta and Athens to the year (66 B/' Thucydides has 3een du33ed the father of 7scientific history7 3ecause of his strict standards of e8idence9gathering and analysis in terms of cause and effect 1ithout reference to inter8ention 3y the gods, as outlined in his introduction to his 1ork':6; 2e has also 3een called the father of the school of 5olitical realism, 1hich 8ie1s the relations 3et1een nations as 3ased on might rather than right':<; 2is te=t is still studied at ad8anced military colleges 1orld1ide, and the Melian dialogue remains a seminal 1ork of international relations theory' More generally, Thucydides sho1ed an interest in de8elo5ing an understanding of human nature to e=5lain 3eha8iour in such crises as 5lague, massacres, as in that of the Melians, and ci8il 1ar'

Contents :hide;

6 >ife 6'6 ?8idence from the /lassical @eriod 6'< >ater sources 6', The 2istory of the @elo5onnesian Aar < /ritical inter5retation , Thucydides 8ersus 2erodotus ( Buotes . Buotations a3out Thucydides ) 4ee also C Dotes E References and further reading E'6 @rimary sources E'< 4econdary sources - ?=ternal links

>ife:edit;
Fn s5ite of his stature as a historian, modern historians kno1 relati8ely little a3out ThucydidesG life' The most relia3le information comes from his o1n History of the Peloponnesian War, 1hich e=5ounds his nationality, 5aternity and nati8e locality' Thucydides informs us that he fought in the 1ar, contracted the 5lague and 1as e=iled 3y the democracy' 2e may ha8e also 3een in8ol8ed in Huelling the 4amian Re8olt':,;

Evidence from the Classical Period[edit]

Thucydides identifies himself as an Athenian, telling us that his fatherGs name 1as Olorus and that he 1as from the Athenian deme of 2alimous':(; 2e sur8i8ed the Plague of Athens[5 that killed@ericles and many other Athenians' 2e also records that he o1ned gold mines at 4ca5te 2yle (literally: 7Iug Aoodland70, a coastal area in Thrace, o55osite the island of Thasos':);

The ruins of Am5hi5olis as en8isaged 3y ?' /ousinJry in 6E,6: the 3ridge o8er the 4trymon, the city fortifications, and the acro5olis

Because of his influence in the Thracian region, Thucydides 1rote, he 1as sent as a strategos (general0 to Thasos in (<( B/' Iuring the 1inter of (<(9(<, B/, the 45artan general Brasidas attacked Am5hi5olis, a half9dayGs sail 1est from Thasos on the Thracian coast, instigating the Battle of Am5hi5olis' ?ucles, the Athenian commander at Am5hi5olis, sent to Thucydides for hel5':C; Brasidas, a1are of ThucydidesG 5resence on Thasos and his influence 1ith the 5eo5le of Am5hi5olis, and afraid of hel5 arri8ing 3y sea, acted Huickly to offer moderate terms to the Am5hi5olitans for their surrender, 1hich they acce5ted' Thus, 1hen Thucydides arri8ed, Am5hi5olis 1as already under 45artan control':E; Am5hi5olis 1as of considera3le strategic im5ortance, and ne1s of its fall caused great consternation in Athens':-; Ft 1as 3lamed on Thucydides,

although he claimed that it 1as not his fault and that he had sim5ly 3een una3le to reach it in time' Because of his failure to sa8e Am5hi5olis, he 1as sent into e=ile::6*; ! " li#ed through the $hole of it, %eing of an age to comprehend e#ents, and gi#ing my attention to them in order to kno$ the e&act truth a%out them' "t $as also my fate to %e an e&ile from my country for t$enty years after my command at Amphipolis( and %eing present $ith %oth parties, and more especially $ith the Peloponnesians %y reason of my e&ile, " had leisure to o%ser#e affairs some$hat particularly' ) Ksing his status as an e=ile from Athens to tra8el freely among the @elo5onnesian allies, he 1as a3le to 8ie1 the 1ar from the 5ers5ecti8e of 3oth sides' Iuring this time, he conducted im5ortant research for his history, ha8ing claimed that he 5ursued the 5roLect as he thought it 1ould 3e one of the greatest 1ars 1aged among the Greeks in terms of scale' This is all that Thucydides 1rote a3out his o1n life, 3ut a fe1 other facts are a8aila3le from relia3le contem5orary sources' 2erodotus 1rote that ThucydidesG fatherGs name, loros, 1as connected 1ith Thrace and Thracian royalty':66; Thucydides 1as 5ro3a3ly connected through family to the Athenian statesman and general Miltiades, and his son /imon, leaders of the old aristocracy su55lanted 3y the RadicalIemocrats' /imonGs maternal grandfatherGs name 1as also Olorus, making the connection e=ceedingly likely' Another Thucydides li8ed 3efore the historian and 1as also linked 1ith Thrace, making a family connection 3et1een them 8ery likely as 1ell' Minally, 2erodotus confirms the connection of ThucydidesG family 1ith the mines at 4ca5tJ 2NlO':6<; /om3ining all the fragmentary e8idence a8aila3le, it seems that his family had o1ned a large estate in Thrace, one that e8en contained gold mines, and 1hich allo1ed the family considera3le and lasting affluence' The security and continued 5ros5erity of the 1ealthy estate must ha8e necessitated formal ties 1ith local kings or chieftains, 1hich e=5lains the ado5tion of the distinctly Thracian royal name 7loros7 into the family' Once e=iled, Thucydides took 5ermanent residence in the estate and, gi8en his am5le income from the gold mines, he 1as a3le to dedicate himself to full9time history 1riting and research, including many fact9finding tri5s' Fn essence, he 1as a 1ell9connected gentleman of considera3le resources 1ho, 3y then retired from the 5olitical and military s5heres, decided to fund his o1n historical 5roLect'

Later sources[edit]

The remaining e8idence for ThucydidesG life comes from rather less relia3le later ancient sources' According to @ausanias, someone named Oeno3ius 1as a3le to get a la1 5assed allo1ing Thucydides to return to Athens, 5resuma3ly sometime shortly after the cityGs surrender and the end of the 1ar in (*( B/' :6,; @ausanias goes on to say that Thucydides 1as murdered on his 1ay 3ack to Athens' Many dou3t this account, seeing e8idence to suggest he li8ed as late as ,-C B/' @lutarch claims that his remains 1ere returned to Athens and 5laced in /imonGs family 8ault':6(; The a3ru5t end to ThucydidesG narrati8e, 1hich 3reaks off in the middle of the year (66 B/, has traditionally 3een inter5reted as indicating that he died 1hile 1riting the 3ook, although other e=5lanations ha8e 3een 5ut for1ard'

@ericles

Fnferences a3out ThucydidesG character can only 3e dra1n (1ith due caution0 from his 3ook' 2is sardonic sense of humour is e8ident throughout, as 1hen, during his descri5tion of the Athenian 5lague, he remarks that old Athenians seemed to remem3er a rhyme 1hich said that 1ith the Iorian Aar 1ould come a 7great death7' 4ome claimed that the rhyme 1as actually a3out a :death 3y; 7famine7 or 7star8ation7 (limos 9 Greek :6.;0, and 1as only remem3ered as :death 3y; 75estilence7 (limos 9 Greek :6);0 due to the current 5lague' Thucydides then remarks that should another Iorian Aar come, this time attended 1ith a great dearth, the rhyme 1ill 3e remem3ered as 7dearth,7 and any mention of 7death7 forgotten':6C; Thucydides admired @ericles, a55ro8ing of his 5o1er o8er the 5eo5le and sho1ing a marked distaste for the demagogues 1ho follo1ed him' 2e did not a55ro8e of the democratic mo3 nor the radical democracy that @ericles ushered in 3ut considered democracy acce5ta3le 1hen guided 3y a good leader':6E; ThucydidesG 5resentation of e8ents is generally e8en9handed; for e=am5le, he does not minimiPe the negati8e effect of his o1n failure at Am5hi5olis' Occasionally, ho1e8er, strong 5assions 3reak through, as in his scathing a55raisals of the demagogues /leon;[*+ [,- and 2y5er3olus' :<6; /leon has sometimes 3een connected 1ith ThucydidesG e=ile':<<; That Thucydides 1as clearly mo8ed 3y the suffering inherent in 1ar and concerned a3out the e=cesses to 1hich human nature is 5rone in such circumstances is e8ident in his analysis of the atrocities committed during ci8il conflict on /orcyra,:<,; 1hich includes the 5hrase 7Aar is a 8iolent teacher7 (Greek ! "#$ %%&'($0'

The History of the Peloponnesian War[edit]

)ain arti*le+ History of the Peloponnesian War

The Acro5olis in Athens

Ruins at 45arta

Thucydides 3elie8ed that the @elo5onnesian Aar re5resented an e8ent of unmatched magnitude':<(; 2is intention 1as to 1rite an account of the e8ents of the late fifth century 1hich 1ould ser8e as 7a 5ossession for all time7' :<.; The history 3reaks off near the end of the <6st year of the 1ar and does not ela3orate on the final conflicts of the 1ar' This facet of the 1ork suggests that Thucydides died 1hilst 1riting his history and more so, that his death 1as une=5ected' After his death, ThucydidesG history 1as su3di8ided into eight 3ooks: its modern title is the History of the Peloponnesian War' 2is great contri3ution to history and historiogra5hy is contained in this one dense history of the <C9year 1ar 3et1een Athens and 45arta, each 1ith their res5ecti8e allies' This su3di8iding 1as most likely done 3y li3rarians and archi8ists, themsel8es 3eing historians and scholars, most likely 1orking in the >i3rary of Ale=andria' Thucydides is generally regarded as one of the first true historians' >ike his 5redecessor 2erodotus, kno1n as 7the father of history7, Thucydides 5laces a high 8alue on eye1itness testimony and 1rites a3out e8ents in 1hich he himself 5ro3a3ly took 5art' 2e also assiduously consulted 1ritten documents and inter8ie1ed 5artici5ants a3out the e8ents that he recorded' Knlike 2erodotus, 1hose stories often teach that a foolish arrogance in8ites the 1rath of the gods, Thucydides does not ackno1ledge di8ine inter8ention in human affairs' A note1orthy difference 3et1een ThucydidesG method of 1riting history and that of modern historians is ThucydidesG inclusion of lengthy formal s5eeches that, as he himself states, 1ere literary reconstructions rather than actual Huotations of 1hat 1as said Q or, 5erha5s, 1hat he 3elie8ed ou,ht to ha8e 3een said' Argua3ly, had he not done this, the gist of 1hat 1as said 1ould not other1ise 3e kno1n at all Q 1hereas today there is a 5lethora of documentation Q 1ritten records, archi8es and recording technology for historians to consult' Therefore ThucydidesG method ser8ed to res*ue his mostly oral sources from o3li8ion' Ae do not kno1 ho1 these historical figures

actually s5oke' ThucydidesG recreation uses a heroic stylistic register' A cele3rated e=am5le is @ericlesG funeral oration, 1hich hea5s honour on the dead and includes a defence of democracy: ! .he $hole earth is the sepulchre of famous men( they are honoured not only %y columns and inscriptions in their o$n land, %ut in foreign nations on memorials gra#en not on stone %ut in the hearts and minds of men' ) 4tylistically, the 5lacement of this 5assage also ser8es to heighten the contrast 1ith the descri5tion of the 5lague in Athens immediately follo1ing it, 1hich gra5hically em5hasiPes the horror of human mortality, there3y con8eying a 5o1erful sense of 8erisimilitude: ! .hough many lay un%uried, %irds and %easts $ould not touch them, or died after tasting them [''' ' .he %odies of dying men lay one upon another, and half/dead creatures reeled a%out the streets and gathered round all the fountains in their longing for $ater' .he sacred places also in $hich they had 0uartered themsel#es $ere full of corpses of persons $ho had died there, just as they $ere( for, as the disaster passed all %ounds, men, not kno$ing $hat $as to %ecome of them, %ecame e0ually contemptuous of the gods1 property and the gods1 dues' All the %urial rites %efore in use $ere entirely upset, and they %uried the %odies as %est they could' 2any from $ant of the proper appliances, through so many of their friends ha#ing died already, had recourse to the most shameless sepultures3 sometimes getting the start of those $ho had raised a pile, they thre$ their o$n dead %ody upon the stranger1s pyre and ignited it( sometimes they tossed the corpse $hich they $ere carrying on the top of another that $as %urning, and so $ent off' ) Thucydides omits discussion of the arts, literature or the social milieu in 1hich the e8ents in his 3ook take 5lace and in 1hich he himself gre1 u5' 2e sa1 himself as recording an e8ent, not a 5eriod, and 1ent to considera3le lengths to e=clude 1hat he deemed fri8olous or e=traneous'

Thucydides; cast of a reno1ned 3ust at 2olkham 2all(@ushkin Museum0

/ritical inter5retation:edit;
4cholars traditionally 8ie1 Thucydides as recogniPing and teaching the lesson that democracies need leadershi5, 3ut that leadershi5 can 3e dangerous to democracy' >eo 4trauss (in The -ity and )an0 locates the 5ro3lem in the nature of Athenian democracy itself, a3out 1hich, he argued, Thucydides had a dee5ly am3i8alent 8ie1: on one hand, ThucydidesG o1n 71isdom 1as made 5ossi3le7 3y the @ericlean democracy, 1hich had the effect of li3erating indi8idual daring, enter5rise and Huestioning s5irit, 3ut this same li3eration, 3y 5ermitting the gro1th of limitless 5olitical am3ition, led to im5erialism and, e8entually,

ci8ic strife':<); Mor /anadian historian /harles Dorris /ochrane (6EE-+6-(.0, ThucydidesG fastidious de8otion to o3ser8a3le 5henomena, focus on cause and effect, and strict e=clusion of other factors antici5ates t1entieth century scientific 5ositi8ism' /ochrane, the son of a 5hysician, s5eculated that Thucydides generally (and es5ecially in descri3ing the 5lague in Athens0 1as influenced 3y the methods and thinking of early medical 1riters such as 2i55ocrates of Ros' :<C; After Aorld Aar FF, /lassical scholar SacHueline de Romilly 5ointed out that the 5ro3lem of Athenian im5erialism 1as one of ThucydidesG central 5reoccu5ations and situated his history in the conte=t of Greek thinking a3out international 5olitics' 4ince the a55earance of her study, other scholars further e=amined ThucydidesG treatment of realpolitik' More recently, scholars ha8e Huestioned the 5erce5tion of Thucydides as sim5ly 7the father of real5olitik7' Fnstead they ha8e 3rought to the fore the literary Hualities of the History, 1hich they see as 3elonging to narrati8e tradition of 2omer and 2esiod and as concerned 1ith the conce5ts of Lustice and suffering found in @lato and Aristotle and 5ro3lematiPed in Aeschylus and 4o5hocles':<E; Richard Ded >e3o1 terms Thucydides 7the last of the tragedians7, stating that 7Thucydides dre1 hea8ily on e5ic 5oetry and tragedy to construct his history, 1hich not sur5risingly is also constructed as a narrati8e'7:<-; Fn this 8ie1, the 3lind and immoderate 3eha8iour of the Athenians (and indeed of all the other actors0, though 5erha5s intrinsic to human nature, ultimately leads to their do1nfall' Thus his History could ser8e as a 1arning to future leaders to 3e more 5rudent, 3y 5utting them on notice that someone 1ould 3e scrutiniPing their actions 1ith a historianGs o3Lecti8ity rather than a chroniclerGs flattery':,*; Minally, the Huestion has recently 3een raised as to 1hether Thucydides 1as not greatly, if not fundamentally, concerned 1ith the matter of religion' /ontrary to 2erodotus, 1ho 5ortrays the gods as acti8e agents in human affairs, Thucydides attri3utes the e=istence of the di8ine entirely to the needs of 5olitical life' The gods are seen as e=isting only in the minds of men' Religion as such re8eals itself in the History to 3e not sim5ly one ty5e of social 3eha8iour among others, 3ut 1hat 5ermeates the 1hole of social e=istence, 5ermitting the emergence of Lustice':,6;

Thucydides 8ersus 2erodotus:edit;

2erodotus and Thucydides

Thucydides and his immediate 5redecessor 2erodotus 3oth e=erted a significant influence on Aestern historiogra5hy' Thucydides does not mention his counter5art 3y name, 3ut his famous introductory statement is thought to refer to him:[4, [44 ! .o hear this history rehearsed, for that there %e inserted in it no fa%les, shall %e perhaps not delightful' 5ut he that desires to look into the truth of things done, and $hich 6according to the condition of humanity7 may %e done again, or at least their like, shall find enough herein to make him think it profita%le' And it is compiled rather for an e#erlasting possession than to %e rehearsed for a prize' ) 2erodotus records in his Histories not only the e8ents of the @ersian Aars 3ut also geogra5hical and ethnogra5hical information, as 1ell as the fa3les related to him during his e=tensi8e tra8els' Ty5ically, he 5asses no definiti8e Ludgment on 1hat he has heard' Fn the case of conflicting or unlikely accounts, he 5resents 3oth sides, says 1hat he 3elie8es and then in8ites readers to decide for themsel8es':,(; The 1ork of 2erodotus is re5orted to ha8e 3een recited at festi8als, 1here 5riPes 1ere a1arded, as for e=am5le, during the games at Olym5ia':,.; 2erodotus 8ie1s history as a source of moral lessons, 1ith conflicts and 1ars as misfortunes flo1ing from initial acts of inLustice 5er5etuated through cycles of re8enge':,); Fn contrast, Thucydides claims to confine himself to factual re5orts of contem5orary 5olitical and military e8ents, 3ased on unam3iguous, first9hand, eye91itness accounts,:,C; although, unlike 2erodotus, he does not re8eal his sources' Thucydides 8ie1s life e=clusi8ely aspoliti*al life, and history in terms of politi*al history' /on8entional moral considerations 5lay no role in his analysis of 5olitical e8ents 1hile geogra5hic and ethnogra5hic as5ects are omitted or, at 3est, of secondary im5ortance' 4u3seHuent Greek historians Q such as /tesias, Iiodorus, 4tra3o,@oly3ius and @lutarch Q held u5 ThucydidesG 1ritings as a model of truthful history' 8ucian[49 refers to Thucydides as ha8ing gi8en Greek historians their la., reHuiring them to say .hat had /een done (T& UVWXYZ%0' Greek historians of the fourth century B/ acce5ted that history 1as 5olitical and that contem5orary history 1as the 5ro5er domain of a historian' :,-; /icero calls 2erodotus the 7father of history;7:(*; yet the Greek 1riter @lutarch, in his Moralia (?thics0 denigrated 2erodotus, as the 7father of lies7' :(6; Knlike Thucydides, ho1e8er, these historians all continued to 8ie1 history as a source of moral lessons'

Thomas 2o33es

Iue to the loss of the a3ility to read Greek, Thucydides and 2erodotus 1ere largely forgotten during the Middle Ages in Aestern ?uro5e, although their influence continued in the ByPantine 1orld' Fn ?uro5e, 2erodotus 3ecome kno1n and highly res5ected only in the late9si=teenth and early9se8enteenth century as an ethnogra5her, in 5art due to the disco8ery of America, 1here customs and animals 1ere encountered e8en more sur5rising than 1hat he had related' Iuring the Reformation, moreo8er, information a3out Middle ?astern countries in the Histories 5ro8ided a 3asis for esta3lishing Bi3licalchronology as ad8ocated 3y Fsaac De1ton' The first ?uro5ean translation of Thucydides (into >atin0 1as made 3y the humanist >orenPo [alla 3et1een 6((E and 6(.<, and the first Greek edition 1as 5u3lished 3y Aldo ManunPio in 6.*<' Iuring the Renaissance, ho1e8er, Thucydides attracted less interest among Aestern ?uro5ean historians as a 5olitical 5hiloso5her than his successor, @oly3ius,:(<; although @oggio Bracciolini claimed to ha8e 3een influenced 3y him' There is not much trace of ThucydidesG influence in Diccol\ Machia8elliGs The Prin*e (6.6,0, 1hich held that the chief aim of a ne1 5rince must 3e to 7maintain his state7 :i'e', his 5o1er; and that in so doing he is often com5elled to act against faith, humanity and religion' >ater historians, such as S' B' Bury, ho1e8er, ha8e noted 5arallels 3et1een them: Ff, instead of a history, Thucydides had 1ritten an analytical treatise on 5olitics, 1ith 5articular reference to the Athenian em5ire, it is 5ro3a3le that ' ' ' he could ha8e forestalled Machia8elli' ' ' ':since; the 1hole innuendo of the Thucydidean treatment of history agrees 1ith the fundamental 5ostulate of Machia8elli, the su5remacy of reason of state' To maintain a state said the Mlorentine thinker, 7a statesman is often com5elled to act against faith, humanity and religion'7 ' ' ' But ' ' ' the true Machia8elli, not the Machia8elli of fa3le' ' ' entertained an ideal: Ftaly for the Ftalians, Ftaly freed from the stranger: and in the ser8ice of this ideal he desired to see his s5eculati8e science of 5olitics a55lied' Thucydides has no 5olitical aim in 8ie1: he 1as 5urely a historian' But it 1as 5art of the method of 3oth alike to eliminate con8entional sentiment and morality':(,; Fn the se8enteenth century, the ?nglish 5olitical 5hiloso5her Thomas 2o33es, 1hose 0e1iathan ad8ocated a3solute monarchy, admired Thucydides and in 6)<E 1as the first to translate his 1ritings into ?nglish directly from Greek' Thucydides, 2o33es and Machia8elli are together considered the founding fathers of 5olitical realism, according to 1hich state 5olicy must 5rimarily or solely focus on the need to maintain military and economic 5o1er rather than on ideals or ethics' Dineteenth9century 5ositi8ist historians stressed 1hat they sa1 as ThucydidesG seriousness, his scientific o3Lecti8ity and his ad8anced handling of e8idence' A 8irtual cult follo1ing de8elo5ed among such German 5hiloso5hers as Mriedrich 4chelling, Mriedrich 4chlegel and Mriedrich DietPsche, 1ho claimed that, 7:in Thucydides;, the 5ortrayer of man, that culture of the most im5artial kno1ledge of the 1orld finds its last glorious flo1er'7 Mor ?duard Meyer, Macaulay and >eo5old 8on Ranke, 1ho initiated modern source93ased history 1riting,:((; Thucydides 1as again the model historian'[:5 [:;

Generals and statesmen lo8ed him: the 1orld he dre1 1as theirs, an e=clusi8e 5o1er93rokersG clu3' Ft is no accident that e8en today Thucydides turns u5 as a guiding s5irit in military academies, neocon think tanks and the 1ritings of men like 2enry Rissinger; 1hereas 2erodotus has 3een the choice of imaginati8e no8elists (Michael OndaatLeGs no8el The 2n,lish Patient and the film 3ased on it 3oosted the sale of the 2istories to a 1holly unforeseen degree0 and Q as food for a star8ed soul Q of an eHually imaginati8e foreign corres5ondent from Fron /urtain @oland, RysPard Ra5uscinski':(C; These historians also admired 2erodotus, ho1e8er, as social and ethnogra5hic history increasingly came to 3e recogniPed as com5lementary to 5olitical history':(E; Fn the t1entieth century, this trend ga8e rise to the 1orks of Sohan 2uiPinga, Marc Bloch and Braudel, 1ho 5ioneered the study of long9term cultural and economic de8elo5ments and the 5atterns of e8eryday life' The Annales 4chool, 1hich e=em5lifies this direction, has 3een 8ie1ed as e=tending the tradition of 2erodotus':(-; At the same time, ThucydidesG influence 1as increasingly im5ortant in the area of international relations during the /old Aar, through the 1ork of 2ans Morgenthau, 8eo <trauss[5- and ?d1ard /arr':.6; The tension 3et1een the Thucydidean and 2erodotean traditions e=tends 3eyond historical research' According to Fr8ing Rristol, self9descri3ed founder of American Deoconser8atism, Thucydides 1rote 7the fa8orite neoconser8ati8e te=t on foreign affairs7;:.<; and Thucydides is a reHuired te=t at the Da8al Aar /ollege, an American institution located in Rhode Fsland' On the other hand, Ianiel Mendelsohn, in a re8ie1 of a recent edition of 2erodotus, suggests that, at least in his graduate school days during the /old Aar, 5rofessing admiration of Thucydides ser8ed as a form of self95resentation: To 3e an admirer of ThucydidesG 2istory, 1ith its dee5 cynicism a3out 5olitical, rhetorical and ideological hy5ocrisy, 1ith its all too recogniPa3le 5rotagonists Q a li3eral yet im5erialistic democracy and an authoritarian oligarchy, engaged in a 1ar of attrition fought 3y 5ro=y at the remote fringes of em5ire Q 1as to ad8ertise yourself as a hardheaded connoisseur of glo3al Real5olitik':.,; Another author, Thomas Geoghegan, 1hose s5eciality is la3our rights, comes do1n on the side of 2erodotus 1hen it comes to dra1ing lessons rele8ant to Americans, 1ho, he notes, tend to 3e rather isolationist in their ha3its (if not in their 5olitical theoriPing0: 7Ae should also s5end more funds to get our young 5eo5le out of the li3rary 1here theyGre reading Thucydides and get them to start li8ing like 2erodotus Q going out and seeing the 1orld'7:.(;

Buotes:edit;
7But, the 3ra8est are surely those 1ho ha8e the clearest 8ision of 1hat is 3efore them, glory and danger alike, and yet not1ithstanding, go out to meet it'7:..; 7Right, as the 1orld goes, is only in Huestion 3et1een eHuals in 5o1er, 1hile the strong do 1hat they can and the 1eak suffer 1hat they must'7:.); Q This Huote is 5art of the Melian dialogue(4trassler ,.<].'E-0' 7Ft is a general rule of human nature that 5eo5le des5ise those 1ho treat them

1ell, and look u5 to those 1ho make no concessions'7:.C; 7Fn 5eace and 5ros5erity states and indi8iduals ha8e 3etter sentiments, 3ecause they do not find themsel8es suddenly confronted 1ith im5erious necessities; 3ut 1ar takes a1ay the easy su55ly of daily 1ants and so 5ro8es a rough master that 3rings most menGs characters to a le8el 1ith their fortunes7 (4trassler 6--],'E<'<0' 7Aar takes a1ay the easy su55ly of daily 1ants, and so 5ro8es a rough master, that 3rings most menGs characters to a le8el 1ith their fortunes'7:.E; 7The cause of all these e8ils 1as the lust for 5o1er arising from greed and am3ition; and from these 5assions 5roceeded the 8iolence of 5arties once engaged in contention'7:.-; 74o that, though o8ercome 3y three of the greatest things, honour, fear and 5rofit, 1e ha8e 3oth acce5ted the dominion deli8ered us and refuse again to surrender it, 1e ha8e therein done nothing to 3e 1ondered at nor 3eside the manner of men'7:)*; 7Fndeed men too often take u5on themsel8es in the 5rosecution of their re8enge to set the e=am5le of doing a1ay 1ith those general la1s to 1hich all can look for sal8ation in ad8ersity, instead of allo1ing them to su3sist against the day of danger 1hen their aid may 3e reHuired7 (4trassler <*6],'E(',0' 7Ft is the ha3it of mankind to entrust to careless ho5e 1hat they long for, and to use so8ereign reason to thrust aside 1hat they do not desire7 (4trassler <E<]('6*E'(0' A Huotation freHuently attri3uted to Thucydides 3y lay5ersons, 3ut 1hich is in fact from 4ir Ailliam Mrancis Butler::)6;

7The nation that 1ill insist u5on dra1ing a 3road line of demarcation 3et1een the fighting man and the thinking man is lia3le to find its fighting done 3y fools and its thinking 3y co1ards'7 More freHuently, this Huote is truncated as follo1s: 7The 4tate that se5arates its scholars from its 1arriors 1ill ha8e its thinking done 3y co1ards and its fighting 3y fools'7

Buotations a3out Thucydides:edit;

And after :the time of 2erodotus;, Thucydides, in my o5inion, easily 8anHuished all in the artfulness of his style: he so concentrates his co5ious material that he almost matches the num3er of his 1ords 1ith the num3er of his thoughts' Fn his 1ords, further, he is so a55osite and com5ressed that you do not kno1 1hether his matter is 3eing illuminated 3y his diction or his 1ords 3y his thoughts' (/icero,3e 4ratore <'.) (.. B'/'00 Fn the 5reface to his 6)<E translation of Thucydides, entitled, 2i,ht 5ookes of the Peloponesian Warres, 5olitical 5hiloso5her Thomas 2o33es calls Thucydides 7the most 5olitic historiogra5her that e8er 1rit'7 A hundred years later, 5hiloso5her Ia8id 2ume, 1rote that: :T;he first 5age of Thucydides is, in my o5inion, the commencement of real history' All 5receding narrations are so intermi=ed 1ith fa3le, that 5hiloso5hers ought to a3andon them to the em3ellishments of 5oets and orators' (7Of the @o5ulousness of Ancient Dations7, 6C(<0

Mriedrich DietPsche 1rote that the 3est antidotes for @latonism 1ere to 3e found in Thucydides: 7My recreation, my 5redilection, my cure, after all @latonism, has al1ays 3een Thucydides' Thucydides and 5erha5s Machia8elliGs prin*ipe are most closely related to me o1ing to the a3solute determination 1hich they sho1 of refusing to decei8e themsel8es and of seeing reason in reality99 not in 7rationality,7 and still less in 7morality'7 There is no more radical cure than Thucydides for the lamenta3ly rose9coloured idealisation of the Greeks''' 2is 1ritings must 3e carefully studied line 3y line, and his unuttered thoughts must 3e read as distinctly as 1hat he actually says' There are fe1 thinkers so rich in unuttered thoughts''' Thucydides is the great summing u5, the final manifestation of that strong, se8ere 5ositi8ism 1hich lay in the instincts of the ancient 2ellene' After all, it is courage in the face of reality that distinguishes such natures as Thucydides from @lato: @lato is a co1ard in the face of reality99 conseHuently he takes refuge in the ideal: Thucydides is a master of himself99 conseHuently he is a3le to master life'7 (A DietPsche /om5endium, T1ilight of the Fdols, trans' Anthony M' >udo8ici0 A' 2' AudenGs 5oem, 74e5tem3er 6, 6-,-7, 1ritten at the start of Aorld Aar FF, contains these lines: 26iled Thu*ydides kne. 7ll that a spee*h *an say 7/out 3emo*ra*y8 7nd .hat di*tators do8 The elderly ru//ish they talk To an apatheti* ,ra1e9 7nalysed all in his /ook8 The enli,htenment dri1en a.ay8 The ha/it:formin, pain8 )ismana,ement and ,rief+ We must suffer them all a,ain;