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COURT
PlainÈiffs,
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Defendants.
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DEPOSTTTONOF RÏCi( K. PICKERTNG
NOVEMBER
3, 2 0 0 5 , PLEASANTON, CALIFORNIA
z APPEARANCES
3 For P1aíntiffs:
9 For Defendants:
10 T. PETER PIERCE
l4
t_5
L6
t7
1_8
L9
20
2L
22
23
24
25
1 ÏNDEX
z l/[ïTNESS
3 RICK K. PTCKERTNG
. 5 EXAMINATTON Page
â, BY MR. PTERCE 4, 78
L0 EXHTBTT INDEX
t4 ]-999 5
l_8 l.999
25 2000
1 EXHIBIT INDEX (Continued) ...
B 2005 5
9 9 Packet of letters 39
LL
t2
l_3
t4
l_5
t6
T7
18
t9
20
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22
23
24
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1 BE ïT REMEMBERED
that pursuant to NOTICE and on
¿ NOVEMBER
3, 2005, ât the hour of l-0:05 a.m. at the
6 St.ate of Ca1ífornia,
7 RICK K. PICKERING,
10 forth:
t2 Ídentification. )
i_3
l4 EXATVITNATION
T9 K., P-i-c-k-e-r-i-n-9.
Pa
l_ A. Yes, I am.
4 Association.
t6 corporation.
20 A. Yes.
23 Mr. Kilmer.
25 could, please.
l_ A. Okay.
6 A. Yes, I do.
10 A. Okay.
22 ordínance?
23 A. Yes.
2 Lrs, please?
5 Nordyke.
I of the letter?
l_0 gun show, T & S Trade Show must provide the AssociatÍon
t_L ordinance?
L2 A. Yes.
L5 A. Yes.
20 A. Yes
22 ordinance?
Pa e 9
l_ I sent them to the County of Alameda and said,
7 certain circumstances .
t3 A. Yes.
l6 Mr. Kilmer.
2l ordinance.
Pa e 1 0
l- adopted, what events had taken place at the Faírgrounds
7 question.
T6 facilitv?
T9 Mesa, California
ñ^
Ëd. 11
l_ O. Yes, sír.
25 O. Every August?
Pa t2
l_ A. Every August.
3 A. Correct,.
5 reenactments?
6 A. They are.
L5 review
t7 are to keep them under lock and key until such time as
L9 They are then supposed to go back under lock and key and
24 reenactments?
Pa l_3
1 Caledonian Games with a copy of the ordinance for them
Department.
t6 Show.
t7 O. When you say you have it, does that mean they
L9 Fairgrounds?
25 March.
Pa e L 4
1_ O. And have you ever personally observed an
3 Fairgrounds?
7 Sportsmen's Show?
l_6 When the show leaves San Mateo and then moves
e l-5
L County Fairgrounds during an Outdoor & Sportsmen's Show?
L2 O. okay.
t7 ball activities, but the paint ball gun was not for
1_8 sale, and the ammunition was not for sale, meaning the
e L 6
l- target
l2 of a firearm.
L7 combustion. r'
1_8 This paint ball rifle you referred to, was that
2A A. ït is compressed air.
5 proj ectile?
1_0 A. Yes.
t2 A. Correct.
l_6 correct?
17 A. Right.
22 A. Yes.
P
t_ then teII me what it is.
1l_ intends to proceed. wíth the November 6th and 7th show
Pa
l_ state and locaI laws. please be assured that my clients
Ll_ Association.
t-5 when the show is actually setting up and the booth was
2L oD, asked were they actually selling paint bal1 guns and
9 ball gun.
l_0 O. okay.
Pa 2t
1 in a líne and they were supervised one NR-A,capped person
6 Mr. Kilmer.
1_6 A. Yes.
20 occasions.
22 T&STradeShows?
Pa
1 mean, the ordinance that bans the possession of firearms
2 on County property.
3 A. Yes.
1_L attorney for Russ and Sa11ie Nordyke dated February 25,
L4 A. Yes, I did.
2L 25th letter.
L4 ordinance?
15 A. That is correct.
l_9 mean that you're saying here that the Faír Association
Pa 24
1- MR. KILMER: Objection. The wi-tness's resþorlse
t7 A. That ís correct.
25 A. Very well.
e25
l_ O. I'd lÍke you t,o look at Subdivision F-4, which
5 A. Very well
25 shows, would you try and work with them to see if there
P e 2 6
1_ hTas a \á¡ay they could conduct as many aspects of their
L2 of?
20 property, correct?
2t A. That's correct.
24 the County ever told you that the Nordykes could never
and the five or six aír soft guns you mentioned that
7 Sportsmen's Shows?
l_1
1,2 EX.A}TTNATION
l7 before?
20 fine.
2L A. Close to ten.
23 managing fairgrounds?
6 A. Yes, sír.
I moLor homes and RV's and set, up camp and. jusE enjoy the
9 fairgrounds?
t4 public?
24 or on a County road.
5 Sheriff's Department?
6 A. f have not.
L2 to you?
L9 7\
Not that I recall.
2t person?
22 A. Telephone caIl.
24 call?
Pa 30
l_ O. What was the substance of the conversation vou
1L CounÈy Counsel.
t4 shows?
L5 A. No.
l7 respecÈ to that?
2L conversation?
ñ ^
.trd_ e 3 l -
l_ A. I reviewed hrith them the types of activitj-es
4 firearms or not.
Pa 32
1 A. There was not.
4 ordinance?
5 A. Not to my knowledge.
7 have a show?
9 theír display.
10 O. OkaY.
L4 A. ¡lbsolutely.
t6 Department?
e 3 3
l_ Scottish bagpipe band of Sheriff Deputies, so the
4 Fairgrounds.
I ordinance?
9 A. I díd not.
t7 A. Yes.
2L n
They desired to bring in a Hauwitzer type
Pa e 3 4
L A. That's correct.
4 A. Both.
1_8 A. Correct.
22 Show?
23 A. Correct, 2002.
I the Fairgrounds?
9 A. There are.
LL ever displayed?
1_5 wag
24 A. Not to my knowledge.
Pa e 3 6
1 Sheriff's Department if gun shows would be considered
3 A. Yes.
l7 pIan.
20 show, I' and your response was, Do, nobody told you they
2T couldn't?
22 A. That's correct.
24 show?
25 A. Yes
Pa e 3 7
1 o. And who was that?
n
2 Richard frTinnie.
4 A. Several.
6 approximate dates?
a7 conversation.
Paqe 38
1_ the internet, the display of firearms or ammunition via
q
considered exempt under the ordinance so that somebody
l_5 August 23rd letter from Mr. Winnie. I'11 refer you to
t6 .E;Xlll_þl_tr l_.
Pa e 3 9
1 MR. KILMER: -Q. This exhibit is redundant of
5 letter.
I A. Okay.
t2 A. That's correct.
l_5 that all of their 2000 dates have been released; ís that
t6 correct?
t7 A. That's correct.
¿5 A. Okay.
Pa 40
1 Shows. This looks like an invoice for mavbe theír
I that the T & S Show gienerated for the County every time
9 it had a show?
L3 food reverfue.
Pa 4L
L A. In l-999, Ry staff explained to me that Lhe four
l2 O. okaY.
t7 agreements.
l-8 O. okay.
22 Thank you.
Pa 42
l- fÍrms?
or a law firm?
I carrier?
22 A. That's correct.
24 minute.
Pa 43
MR. KILMER: Q. You had' mentioned earlier that
L
6 A. I was not.
10 A. ThaE's correct.
Ll- o.And.therewasalawsuiÈfíledafterthe]-998
l2 shooting?
L5 o.Areyouawareofanyothershootingst.hathave
l7 A. Not to my knowledge.
1_8 0.WastheFairgroundsnamedinthelawsuitthat
Pa 44
L question, what r,tlas the theory for the Fairground's
+ conclusion.
1_0 of Alameda.
23 Association?
24 A That's correct
ñ -
Ed. e 4 5
1 the shooting was charged with the crime?
5 time.
. Y
A. I do not know how long gun shows have taken
L2 though?
L4 year.
L8 Èaken pIace, but to t.he extent that you know, were the
Pa 46
1 not three, of tlre Nordyke, s gun shows on the property
5 Fairground.s?
l-3 property?
2t CounEy Fair?
25 A. Yes.
l_ O. I deserve that answer. If you could explain
Þ¡ 48
1 I'd like to know what that is.
3 evidence.
/l
THE WITNESS: The fíreworks show on thè 4th of
5 July.
1 A
A. Both-
t6 security?
t7 A. Yes.
22 O. okay.
Pa e 4 9
L O. Any cultural or holiday events that are a
3 A. Yes.
7 at other facilitÍes.
event. They have now been here for four or more years
l-o and have had very successful events. The fírst event
L9 A. None to my knowledge.
2t carefully as I can.
Pa e 5 0
1 MR. PIERCE: Objection, misstates the character
2 of the ordinance
9 that policy?
l_3 a. And what was the conversati-on you had wíth her?
l4 A
She indicated that she had planned to introduce
2A the Faírgrounds.
ñ^ e 5l-
1 A. r requested her not to do that in that we were
1_1_ A. Two days after the first phone caIl, she calred
Pa e 5 2
1 you from the county about this new policy t.he county
z wanted to enact?
3 A. I don, t, recaII.
t9 O. AI1 right.
Pa ê q ?
L logo on it and nonalcoholic drinks had a blue 1ogo.
ït' s vag'ue.
I firearm problem.
t2 fairs in California.
t-õ event, not just for the county Faír; is that correct?
t_1_ detectors.
t_3 that you will reguire Èhe use of metal detectors for an
l4 event?
t6 other facilities.
18 first ,came here and there had been weapons issues wíth
20 metal detectors.
e 5 6
l_ staff on my knowledge of gun shows at the orange county
2 Fairgrounds.
I on?
9 A. No.
11_ related to the shows that the Nordykes used to put on?
t2 A. No.
L6 security.
Pa 57
1_ híred off duty sheríffs to provide security for their
z shows?
5 A. I do not know.
5 Oranqe
7 Fairgrounds.
9 A. Five years.
t2 prÍor to that.
1_5 Fairground?
L6 A. yes.
20 stations
22 sense?
Pa
1 a. How would you characteríze the events that take
4 there differences?
5 A. Yes.
7 differences?
2 Fairgrounds?
9 Mr. lüinnie and the two copies of the ordinance, have you
23
7 Fairgrounds?
I A. Yes.
l-0 A. Yes.
11 O. Home shows?
L6 imagÍne?
t9 away?
Pa e 61-
1_ shows here at the Fairgrounds?
z A. Yes.
l_L A. Yes.
L7 shows?
t9 building, j,"r"
they took a look at what types of shows
zt shows would like to make enLre into the Bay Area market,
t6 att,endance.
24 O. All right.
25 A. Raves.
1- O. All riqht.
6 A
Not necessarily.
7 O. All right.
i
l7 at boats on nboattrader.com.Í
2L present?
I
22 A. I don,t know
Pa e 6 4
1- THE WITNESS: Agiain, it depends on how__€he show
I would be disappointed?
20 show that does not have guns because they are looking
23 show?
Þa e 6 5
1 show wourd probably expect to see guns present, wouldn,t
2 they?
5 you can.
1_3 A. f do not.
t6 County Fairgrounds?
l7 A. Yes.
25 the Fairgrounds and that they are being used. for every
e 6 6
1 County Fair and some other events as we1l.
1_5 possession.
I
I7 incidents weII, all except one of those incídents
22 A. All right.
Pa e 6 7
1 VIe did have a cowboy type entertainer who had
7 enforcement issue.
1_t_ arrest.
L7 the Fairgrounds?
L9 knowledge.
24 the entrances?
7 Association?
L2 positions.
22 of this ordínance.
Pa 69
L A. Not to my knowledge. We conduct quarterly
10 level of detail.
L5 we're discussinq.
2L period?
2 A. Not to my knowledge.
6 O. okaY.
t9 A. No.
2L of this ordínance?
24 be advised of it.
e7:-.
l- that wi-th all exhibitors or all shows?
I with Federal and state 1aws. very few people know that
l_t_ ir?
l-5 services.
2A clarification,
Pa e 7 2
1 Section F of the ordinance?
5 conclusion.
l_0 at all?
l_3 between your Èwo portable trailers, r' and they said., rVüe
t6 Fire Department.
Pa e 7 3
1_ A. I would simply pass it on because there's been
5 show?
9 County adopted.
l7 A. Absolute1v.
2L the event.
Pa e 7 4
1 might be firearms and you want to brj_ng that to their
z attentíon?
ñãrr
22 weapons.
Pa e 7 5
1 O. All right.
3 whereby Mya was here and she had armed security. That
O. okaY.
l2 weapons.
l6 O. okaY.
t9 different contracts.
4 A. Yes.
7 ]-2050.
15 permit or not.
24 admission gates.
Pa 77
l_ break.
I that correct?
9 A. That,s correct.
1,6 folIow-ups.
1"7
23 games?
Pa 78
1 any gun Ieft. unsecured when not in the immed.iat.e
3 games?
22 show.
2 BY MR. KTLMER:
5 ordinance?
9 ordinance as amended-
7 yes.
10 an r_ncex.
l_1
t4
25
t_ I hereby declare under penalty of perjury that
v
Signed at on
10
t_t-
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t6
l7
l_8
t9
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Page 82
l_ STATE OF CALIFORNIA ) .
ô
¿ ) ss-
3 COUNTYOF )
+
5 On this day of before
, -,
6 rfl€,
, a Notary
7 public in and for the state of carifornia, d.uLy
I commissioned and sworn, personally appeared
g
RIGK K. PIcKERTNG
l_0
l- l-
' t v
20
2t
NOTARY PTJB]-,TC
¿¿
23
24
¿Ð
1 STATE OF CALTFoRNIA ) ss.
2 COUNTY OF STANTSLAUS )
¿L
I-, Ho11y D. Hensyel, a licensed, Certified
24
25
Page 83
1 REPORTER' S CERTIFTCATTON
L2
13
L4
16
1,7
1_8
1,9
20
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Page 84
CE,{TRA!-CALIFORNIARTPORTERS
CertifiedShorthandand Video Reporters
Main Bookkeeping
and Calendaring
251 WestJackson Street. postOfficeBox362
Sonora,California95.370
. (209) ss2-93s2 FAX(209) s32-s362
(800) 347-218s
NOVFìÍBER22, 2005
Dear Sin
CORRECTIONS:
#s088
DEPOSITION
OF: nrcr x. prcrsnrNc
DATED: NOVEMBER
3, 2OO5
JobNumber 5OBB
CORRECTIONLTST PAGE2
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(? EXHIBIT
RichardK. plckerlng,
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RICI-IARD
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SECT¡ON9.12.120TO THË COUNTYORÞINANCE
oN couNTYFRoFËRTY
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THE BOARÞOF SUFËRVISORSOF THE COUNTYOF A.LAMEDA
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SËOTIONI
Section9'12-120to
That the OrdinanceCode of the Countyof Alamedashallbe amendëdto add
read as follows:
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Facsimil-e Received on 7/L8/2005 11:31:16 AM
07-f8-05 llt24 tror,' ¡rards,l{atson
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NÖ.0-2000-22
oRDINANCE
AMEND¡NG
AN ORDINANCE 9,12.120
SECTION CODE
ÖRDIÍ'IANCE
OFTHECOUNTY
OF FIREARMSON COUNTYFROPERTY
THE PO$SËSSION
PROHIBITING
Ë EXH|B|T
THE BOARDOF SUPERVISOR$OF THE COUNTYOF ALAMEDA E ¡l tn
ORDAINSAS FOLLOWS: E r t ?
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ã ftcKerintl -l-
SECTIONI
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F a c s i m i l - e R e c e i v e d o n 7 / 1 , 81 2 0 0 5 1 1 : 3 1 : 1 6 A M
û7;18-05 ll r25 From-' ''ds,Watson
t tarshor +7t4gg0 T-532 P.005/005
F-269
PenalËode(seotions'830 etseg')'
(2) A guardor messênger åf a financidlinstitution, a guardof a contract carrier
operatingan ãrmoiedvehiÇle, å l¡censed privateinvestigator, pâlloloperãtor, or afarm
çompanyop"iát*, oÍ unifonned securitygtlardas.theçe occupations arp defined in
penåtCäOËse"t¡oh12091(d) andwhofroidsa validcedificate issued þy the Department
of Çonsume.Ãffairsunderþenal Codesection12033,whileactually employed and
engagedin protecting and preserving property or lifewithin the scope of hisor her
. emploYment;
' '(g)
a valid.licençe
A personholdirrg to carrya firearmissuedpursuant to Penal
- - - section
Çode 12050;
(4) Thepossåssionof a fiçãrm by.an-authorized participant in a motionpicture,
or theatricalproäuction
tetevisiòn,v¡oãð,-oãnce, or event.whentheparticipant lawfufly
ùsesthenre"*'aï partofthatproduöt¡on or event, provided that when such firearm is
notin the actr¡alpossessionof theauthorized participanl it is secured to prevent
unauthorized use.
(g) A pJoOnlawtutlytrarrsporting firearmsor amrnunition in a motorvehicleon
County roads;
'(6)
usingthetargetrangeoperated
A petsonlawfr¡lly by theAlamedaCounty
SherÍff;
or law enforcementofficer:or
(7) A federaløimïnalinvestig,ator
the United
iAi e måmnerof the militaryforces of the State of Californiaor of
states ,arrrile
engagedirr the performanceof his or her duty.
AYES: Cdrson,HaggertY,
Supervisors , and Steele- 4
NOËS; ntne
EXCUSED: PresidentChan'1
Vice.Presidentof the
çöu-rftyof ?\lameda,Ståteof Califomia
AfiEST: CRYSTALK.I.II$HIDA'CICTK
of the Board of $upervisots,Countyof Alameda
Facsimile:925/426-7
5gg
Pleasefeel free to contactmy office if you have any questions.Thank you. '
Cordially-,
z
PicVrinq +
T& STradeshows
P. O. Box 871
Willows CA 95988
Attention: SallieNordyke
Deai Sallie:
Thank you for your assistancein this matter. If you haveany questions,pleasedb not '
hesitateto call.
ü9