[MUSIC] We've now reached the end of week four, of course three, and it's time for another

discussion. So, let me ask our two presenters, Dr. George Oduro and Professor John MacBeath, why is it that engagement of students in their learning is an important classroom skill? >> Yeah, the whole business of relationships in the classroom is to facilitate learning. And if the purpose of getting pupils in the class is to facilitate learning, then the teacher has no choice. Creating a supportive environment that will make the learner feel part of the process, and that is what engagement is all about. >> Good stuff for us to say as professors of education, George, isn't it? You're right, of course you're right. But you say that teachers in some places where they say I've got 60, 70, 80, 100, whatever it is, number of students in my class, and you come here and you tell me you should be engaging and thinking about your students. I mean if you were to say, I mean you've got lots of experience dealing with teachers in Ghana saying things like that. So, what's their, kind of, response, if you were to say that to a teacher? >> Well, the first response would be in the form of a question. How do I engage individual students in a class when I handle 120 pupils, and also have to grapple with public demand for examination passes? This will be one of the responses that I will get from them. But I think that it's one thing that certain types of people, people internalising their need to engage. Then another thing, transferring that internalisation into reality. So, if in the means of difficulties teachers are aware of the importance of engagement in their school. >> So yeah, it's a nice distinction that at least at first you've got to grasp the principle, haven't you? >> That my mission, my duty as a

teacher, is to engage students. What else am I doing if not engaging students? >> Yeah. >> So we're agreed on that, we're on the same page. And then the second question is, yeah but->> How do I make it real? >> Yeah, in this context, with these students, and in this place, in this classroom. And, as you say, with all the policies there are, and so on. So, it's the dilemma. It's the puzzle, but, I think you're absolutely right in saying the first thing we have to do is to make sure we are agreeing that the principle is right. That our job is to find ways of engaging. >>The follow up question to the first one, what are some practical strategies th at you can provide for our teachers on how to engage young people in their learning? >> Well, from the context of Ghana, where the tradition has been the teacher doing everything in the classroom, the child being a listener. I think now things are changing, following what maybe I think we can look at from the perspective of globalisation, people are now getting access to videos, forms of techniques of teaching. So, in some schools I have seen in Ghana, the voice of the people is not recognised by the teacher. So, the teacher creates an environment for pupils to ask questions. For pupils to contribute to discussions. They're creating an environment for pupil-people interaction. Then, one more other thing that is coming up now is excursions have now been tied to what children learn. And these are all forms of engagement. Of course, I must agree that it is not across the country. >> Sure. But nowhere is it. Nowhere in the world is it across the country, because it's a risky process, isn't it? When you devolve or let go, as we've discussed earlier about letting go. As soon as you let go of a bit of the

control, and you're asking students to take a bit more control or responsibility, then you know, possible mayhem that may arise. So, it requires a very confident teacher to be able to do that. >> Yeah, and let me say that this raises another issue as to how we prepare our teachers. At the preparation stage, to what extent are those who prepare the teachers convinced of the engagement principle? If it's taught from the colleges of education, teacher training colleges, and that becomes a part of teachers, then it will be easier enforcing it in the classroom. So, we need to look at that. >> Because you're in a situation, like a lot of countries are, where you often don't have the luxury of everybody going through teacher training or teacher education first. They go straight into school. and start to teach. And then they reinforce all their old bad habits. >> Yeah. >> So, it's that in-service thing, when teachers come out of the classroom and get the opportunity to think about what they've been doing, how might I do things differently. It's a really big international issue, this, isn't it? That the governments are thinking, well, how do we best induct teachers in the profession, and continue their professional development? But, at the same time, governments wish to keep their control of what's happening. >> Hmm. Yeah, yeah. >> You've talked quite a bit about the peer group influence. What are some of the ways in which the peer group can be a really positive influence on other students? >> So, as I said, the peer group has a positive side to it. One way through which we can maximise the benefits of the societal peer group is first to recognize that the peer group has something to offer. So, that recognition will create the condition where the teacher and the

school, as a whole, would engage pupils in taking certain decisions that affect them. When the peer group is organised in such a way that, for instance, they will be involved in edging their appearance to attend parent-teacher association meetings. That would be a positive way of engaging them. >> Yeah, we were talking earlier, George, and you gave a lovely example of something fairly recent, isn't it? The teachers of Ghana have been on strike and then what was the consequence of all of that? >> Because teachers were not in school, one would have expected that pupils would not be engaging in learning. But my daughter returned from school, and I asked why she had kept long in school. She said they had classes. And who were the teachers? It was her peers, so they organised themselves for some of the brighter ones of the class to teach them. And she said, she understood better some of the things her teacher had taught. And I think that this was possible because the school itself had created an environment for the pupils to realise that they have something to offer. >> So, that's a very important part of it, isn't it? They have built in a sense of the capital there, for students or pupils to be able to then take that kind of initiative, because you can imagine another case in which school had shut down and they all said "Hooray! We're off." >> They would be playing games, others would be walking in the streets. But in this particular school, the University junior high school at the University of Cape Coast, the school ran itself. >> So, you've created a culture already in which young people are already learning from one another. >> From one another.Yeah, yeah. >> We also know that the peer group can have a negative influence on young people. Sometimes things like drug or alcohol abuse can occur because of negative peer influence. Can you discuss this a little bit further?

>> So, of course, it was a positive case that I've given. But we need also to be concerned that there could be negative impact on on pupils if the school does not, in a way, regulate activities of the group. For instance, where we have pupils who are very influential, engaged in bad habits, they can easily influence their colleagues. And so, there is a need for this school to constantly educate pupils about negatives, so far as peer relations are concerned, and how such negatives could affect their own progress. For instance, if one is influenced to engage in drugs, that would lead to the end of the school year. >> Mm-hm. >> And the child, the individual, stands to suffer. So, schools must do that. And then the school must also have a policy, a policy that will be anti-drug, anti-substance, anti-violence policy where everybody will be aware, of course. Pupils might be engaged in the foundation of this policy, so that they own it. >> Yeah, I think you made a very important point there about the pupils, or the students themselves, being engaged in the formulation of a policy. But you also talked about students who were the counselors, or the mentors, or whatever, to their fellow students. And you talked about those who had never been on drugs or never smoked, and never took alcohol. But you also talked about those that had but then had realised the folly of what they were doing, or the risks and so on. And in some ways, they're almost better mentors because they can say, "I've been there, I've done that". >> I agree with you. Experience is the best teacher. Of course positive experience... So, such individuals could be identified and used positively. And asked -- going back to what my daughter told me, she understood better what her colleagues explained. >> Yeah. >> So, if you have people who have

experienced this, have realised the adverse effects of those in practice on their lives, and therefore, have resolved, would not do it again, then they become a very good resource which we can use. >> And I like your daughter example there, George, because it just highlights, and pinpoints again, the nature of the peer-to-peer dialogue, because probably it would be very fair to say, that a young person understands another young person, more than the teacher would. They're living in the same generation, open to the same risks. They're living in that cyber-universe, and so on, and they can talk to each other. Often in a way that their teacher doesn't recognise or have that background experience. >> Schools all around the world at the moment are faced with the issue of bullying. Can you talk about some issues associated with physical or emotional bullying and some strategies that we might use to overcome this? >> Well, bullying takes many forms and it threatens the life of weaker students in school. In Ghana, in secondary schools, there is one interesting form of bullying where the stronger ones, the seniors, will seize food. We have a type of food called gari, which the students like because you can just soak it in sugar and off it goes. So, they would just force their victims to open the box and then take those thin gs out. A form of bullying. At times it leads to gang rape, at secondary school, you would have some cases of that nature. But the teacher's responsibility goes beyond mere promoting of intellectual activity. The teacher has responsibility of creating an environment which will ensure the welfare of the students. In other words, the total development of the individual is the responsibility of the teacher. So, one of the things that the teacher can do is to develop interest in individual pupils welfare in the school.

He, or she, should not just be happy that the pupil has entered the classroom, and he or she is just teaching. They must be very sensitive to the needs of the student. And then also create an environment which will be friendly to the standard that individual students can approach them, and tell them about their experiences. One other thing I think the teacher can do is to identify the bullies and assign them responsibilities under his control. If the bully is assigned a responsibility of checking bullying in the school, that would be one way of controlling that. So, it all boils down to positive engagement. >> Yes. So, very much you've accentuated all the positives there, creating a more congenial environment, creating more collegial environments and so on. But the other side of it, as already you've talked about, is that there has to be a strong anti-bullying policy. >> Of course, yeah. >> And everybody recognises that it exists, and again as we've emphasised George, that if the students themselves are involved in formulating that policy, they're much more likely then to observe it. And you talked about ownership. >> Ownership, yes. And then there's also another aspect of it, we've had cases where policies have been made, teachers enforce the policies, and some parents get to the school to attack teachers for enforcing such policies. Let me just give you one of these. The Ghana education service, for instance, has come out and banned the use of mobile phones in secondary schools. In the process of enforcing this, some parents have attacked teachers. And this gives another perspective of the whole process of making policy. That it should not just be engaging pupils, but parents must also be engaged in formulating such policy. In that case, we have three different people enforcing the policy. >> Yeah. That's hugely important because you're not talking about just, we contain it within the

school, because okay, we don't have any bullying in the school, but as soon as they're outside, or at home, or in the community, or there's bullying by parents or bullying by adults, all of those things, so it has to be very much a community wide strategy, as I think you said yourself. >> Yeah. >> I want to thank Dr. Oduro and Professor MacBeath for their discussions and their insightful way of looking at some of the issues for week three and week four. We've now reached the end of week four, and it's time for you to start thinking about your second peer assessment. [MUSIC]