Intercultural Insights – Roland Dunne

Intercultural Insights Group: Selected Postings by Roland Dunne

Contact rolanddunne@gmail.com tel 07904 522 552

This is a collection of pieces I’ve posted to the Intercultural Insights group. My posts
reflect the collaborative nature of the group and I am often in discussion with colleagues
– this collection is as much a tribute to them as it is for my own statements.

My interests reflected here include time, directness / indirectness in communication,

music, food and drink, migration, religions, movies, intercultural training and
development. I draw upon psychoanalysis, philosophy and anthropology in my work and
in my discussion of topics like Personal Identity and Authenticity. But I don’t take it all
seriously as you’ll see from my diversions into roundabouts and road rules

CONTENTS

Parallel Existence 'Temporality' - Universal Digital Time & Local Time Zones P.3

Atheist Buses [British Indirectness] P.4

Music and Intercultural Training P.5

Vodka, maps and culture + Alcohol Cultural Migration P. 6

Bhutan Cultural Change, Gross National Happiness & Buddhism Re:changing

culture P. 7

Reinventing intercultural delivery and presence [Re: Peter Isacson's Accenture] P.8

Authenticity & Personal Identity: concept versus experience P.9

Must See Intercultural Movies P.15

SatNav or Maps? Reference versus Knowledge P.17

Re: square/curve - Roundabouts as expression of cultural thinking Re: square/curve

- Roundabouts as expression of cultural thinking P.20

More Roundabouts; must be the August 'silly season'? Anglo - German P.21

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WHY AND HOW TO JOIN THE INTERCULTURAL INSIGHTS GROUP

Since this is a ‘closed group’ you won’t be able to access articles or this ssort or even
come across them if you search on google! In other words you are missing out on reading
some very inspiring debates if you; that’s a shame and the point of this collection is to
encourage you to apply for membership of the group.

[The full text of each discussion is included here as it appeared in the group but note that
the hypertext links won’t work unless you are a member of the group]

The postings should be read as you would a blog; these are not intended to formal
academic papers or management consulting reports!

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/interculturalinsights/

A members-only resource exchange and professional development discussion group on

intercultural and cross-cultural business, training, education, research and consulting
topics for experienced intercultural professionals.

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Parallel Existence 'Temporality' - Universal Digital Time & Local Time
Zones

http://www.timeanddate.com

Is a useful tool for virtual teams [and intercultural consultants!] to plan conference calls
and other syncronous communications ...... or in less management speak - if you are
frustrated by the archiac, redundant practice of daylight savings time adjustments every 6
months this might help! Especially when we have a period like now when
for a few weeks NYC is a hour closer to London.

Actually I had a positive response from delegates recently when I [jokingly] suggested
that we all need to now be on Universal Digital Time!

Many a true word in jest however. With ubiquitous mobile communications devices and
'always on' social networking platforms like Twitter then the concept of time is surely
changing?

More specifically we and our clients may be increasingly operating in parallel time
frames. They may be parallel , simultaneous working and living in both:

- Local Time related to nature [light / sleep / body clocks / seasons]

- Universal Digital Time related to tasks / business cycles / communications devices

This of course is very intensely experienced by newly arrived ex-pats relocated from
other time zones but it is an issue for all members of Virtual Teams too

International managers and members of Virtual Teams are very interested

in these sorts of issues [in my training and development program experience]. They can
benefit from our intercultural guidance in these practical areas. I might group their typical
concerns as

- Protocols about the use of time and how it affects virtual team
members & customers [mainly syncronous communications]

- Protocols about the use of communications tools, devices and

technology and how it affects virtual team members & customers [mainly
asyncronous communications]

To give a practical example: who 'looks after the brand'? Nothing can
wait until the next business day if a brand reputation can be affected
like wildfire on social networks like Twitter [as businesses like
Ryanair, Skittles and Starbucks have found recently]. Who is going to
respond 24/7? Or are boundaries going to be drawn?

3
In manager and team training sessions, questions about 'time protocols
planning' & the like are asked of me far more frequently than how to
grapple with more abstruse and abstract intercultural dimensions
[though it could be argued, I guess at a stretch, that they are
ultimately linked]. Empathy with these sorts of end user client concerns
would do our emerging profession a great deal of good.

I started this as a quick link to a time planning tool and it became

more involved than I had intended, sorry! As a result I changed the
original message title from the simple 'Time Zone Planning Tool' to this
more high falutin' one!

I am sure others have reflected on these sorts of points and I'd be

interested to get further comment from this group. E.g. How are these
things seen in India and China or is this a more Anglo-American
preoccupation?

Tue Mar 10, 2009 Message #14973 Roland Dunne

Atheist Buses [British Indirectness]

The postcard comes from a series which I often use in training sessions.
See http://www.lgpcards.com for the complete series of "How to be British" .
As ever pictures and humour go a long way in training and communications

Wed Jan 7, 2009 Message #14711 Roland Dunne

4
Music and Intercultural Training

The discussion of music and conflict resolution [by Michelle, George

and others] leads me to mention some related points

1] I've used music in intercultural team group training sessions. It can have many
purposes including setting the tone, pace, direction, theme and mood.

Any interculturalists interested in the effect of music on human

behaviour might like to take a look at "Tune Your Brain" by Elizabeth
Miles. [I'm not a musicologist and I am sure there are other resources
but Mile's book does have a decent bibliography]

2] Music can act as an indicator of national, regional and group

cultures. It can both reflect and direct favoured and preferred ways
of looking at the world.

I find music to be an overlooked cultural dimension in many training

programs - it is a resource and another way of understanding culture
beyond the usual verbal, non verbal communications approaches. { I
would be interested to learn of any new writings on this topic }

3] With regard to Peace and Conflict resolution I have found "Being

Peace" by Thich Nhat Hanh interesting: he makes the point [among many
others] that Peace Activists don't always choose the most effective
means and modes of communication.

4] For understanding events, these might be used as examples.

- The Caribbean Calypso tradition which highlights current events.

While in the Caribbean recently I heard a wonderful song called "Palin
Girl" recorded prior to the USA election! I imagine this is somewhat
related to the Troubadour tradition in Medieval Europe

- American Folk-Blues. A favourite of mine! Woody Guthrie's "Dust Bowl

Ballads" has had an enduring legacy. Leadbelly covers just about every
issue in American politics: race, sex, and discrimination. The
re-export of the Blues to America by the British Blues groups is a
major example of Cultural Migration.’

Message # 14705 rolanddunne@gmail.com Jan 7, 2009

5
Re: Vodka, maps and culture + Alcohol Cultural Migration

Peter Thanks. I really enjoyed your selection of this article. As a former Texas resident it
provided some wry [rye?] amusement. Of course a large number of Mexicans in Texas,
California and the SW became 'American' overnight so it's not all about immigration!
Everyday"English" speech in Texas & the SW among both Anglos and Latinos is
strongly peppered with Spanish words and expressions

There is another part of this commercial culture clash in the same

article which is also worthy of our intercultural attention:

"Vin & Sprit, Absolut's Sweden-based parent company, will be acquired

by French spirit maker Pernod Ricard SA under a deal reached last week."

[For what it's worth I imagine vodka will have a tough time in the
Mexican market where top shelf Tequilas have status equivalence to
single malt Whisky]

And just to add to the alcohol related theme: the reason that Mexican
and Texan cerveza / beer is so well developed is the influence of
early German settlers.

............. And so another theme occurs to me: how are various forms
of alcohol preference 'migrated' across cultures? What determines
barriers and adoptions of certain types of drink?

For example, In Menorca, due to 18th Century British presence, Gin

distilleries were established and it remains a drink of choice in a
region where gin would not otherwise perhaps be popular.

--- In interculturalinsights@yahoogroups.com, Peter Isackson

<p.isackson@...> wrote:
>
> Here's an interesting culturo-marketing problem. Absolut Vodka used a
> 19th century map in a commercial in Mexico reminding people that a good
> chunk of the US was originally Mexican.
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23973492/
>
> The problem is that a lot of US citizens are worried that it may
> actually be returning to its pristine state!\

Message #13590 Roland Dunne Apr 23, 2008

6
Bhutan Cultural Change, Gross National Happiness & Buddhism
Re:changing culture

Regarding Bhutan & Buddhism

David - there is a similar article in National Geographic Magazine

March 2008 by Brook Larner with good photography and background.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/03/bhutan/larmer-text.html

"Bhutan's Enlightened Experiment" [Subtitled "Guided by a novel idea,

the tiny Buddhist kingdom tries to join the modern world without
losing its soul"]

Summary: Gross National Happiness is a key planning objective. The

Monarchy self downgrades to a symbolic level. Buddhism is used as an
adaptative tool

This leads me to consider: are some religious frameworks 'better'

[i.e. more functional] in dealing with intercultural cross cultural
issues? Does anyone have any observations or sources on this?

Message #13589 rolanddunne@gmail.com Apr 23, 2008

7
Reinventing intercultural delivery and presence [Re: Peter Isacson's
Accenture]

Peter - Thank you so much for the your analysis of the implications for
interculturalists of the Accenture study. You draw out the implications for Interculturalists
very well indeed and I concur with your observations

Like you I am not berating interculturalists but simply encouraging

them to 'shape up, step up to the plate'. Seize the opportunity

We do need to reinvent how we present ourselves and how we are seen.

There are lots of us [esp in this group] who are doing that but there
is still a 'pitch it low' end of the market which fails to connect to
the highest levels of management strategy

Many are stuck in a time warp of domain assumptions set by a few

writers from long ago. Many are afraid to get interactive and leave
the old dimensions behind

Interculturalists [as a whole] are punching far below their own weight
and thereby letting others into the gap they leave. Interculturalists
are a fascinating, educated, smart group of people but who don't
always come across that way or charge accordingly!

One thing I know is that presenting the same old tired dimensions from
quantitative studies conducted 10 - 30 years ago and using inscrutable
classifications is likely to kill dead any interactivity with a CEO,
President or VP. To that extent some universities providing
intercultural courses might need to examine old reading lists!

You are right Peter: productivity, performance, retention of key

staff, global trend awareness, ideation, brainstorming: that is what
the movers and shakers demand and enjoy when they experience it.
Getting that 'buy in' at senior level is where the cascading sales begin

PETER'S ORIGINAL COMMENTS ON ACCENTURE STUDY

"1. The training currently proposed is probably inadequate or badly
targeted (e.g. focusing on intercultural theory rather than
psychology and personality) and therefore we are faced with the
challenge of re-inventing intercultural training.

2. We should be thinking in terms other than simple training

(pre-defined courses) and looking at how an intercultural culture
can be developed and maintained.

[we need to] boost the profile of intercultural

services. To reach the movers and shakers, we need to speak their
language, which consists basically of two words: performance and
productivity. The study may be a start. Peter"
Message #10733 rolanddunne@gmail.com Jul 17, 2009

8
Authenticity & Personal Identity: concept versus experience

Dear George [and All who have contributed to the discussion]

You have touched upon a fundamental topic here; it touches in a way on

'everything' in the intercultural world. So much so that I'd suggest holding a
syposium on this topic which might be an opportunity to work with professionals
from other fields [psychology, law, religion]. The intercultural profession has
much to give and to take from other practitioners.

There are two issues for me: the Concept and the Experience.

1] Experience and Questioning of Authenticity

As an intercultural trainer I deal with this issue in conjunction with those I

am training and mentoring. I can say that levels, angles and depths of approach
to this topic vary widely by the trainee's culture, age, business experience and
type of migration. Clearly the 'gestalt' of what authenticity & personal
identity should be is laid down according to a person's early upbringing
[discussions of Japan, America and Europe in contributors' threads have shown
this]

For some trainees it is a set of hard, interesting questions which they want to
explore, sometimes for the first time as a result of the shock of exposure to
new cultures. Others take the pragmatic approach of 'this is a 2 year
assignment- get me in and out of here'.

I take the lead from the trainee and will go as far as they want to but I
generally sense that the topic of authenticity - being true to themselves and to
those they manage - is both troubling and interesting. On top of all this they
have to deal with the travails of corporate life and how that challenges their
authenticity [I am in agreement with Neal's comments here] And of course as
trainers we are not immune to these same set of considerations......

2] The Concept of Personal Identity & Authenticity

Questions of authenticity are clearly related to notions of personal identity

and sincerity.

- In the western context this was raised notably by David Hume 'On Personal
Identity' which questioned religion based concepts like soul - the empiricist
would see identity as the sum of experience [interesting of course for those who
encounter new culutres and who migrate]. It became a perennial topic of
philosophers.

9
- More recently Lionel Trilling's essays explored authenticity and sincerity as
being true to oneself.

- Psychoanalysts of course have been widely interested in this topic so I'd just
mention 'Listening with the Third Ear' by Theodor Reik as being relevant to
interculturalists. I am particularly interested at the conceptual and experience
levels in Personal Identity and Migration

George, I think you have initiated a great topic here and I want to thank all
the respondents for their interesting and erudite contributions.

ROLAND
Message #15741 rolanddunne@gmail.com Aug 5, 2009

------------------------------------------------------------------------

POSSESSIVE INDIVIDUALISM & PERSONAL IDENTITY

Re: Authenticity & Personal Identity: concept versus experience Re: Authenticity &
Personal Identity: concept versus experience

George

I like your analogy of the guide who facilitates the excursions outside the
walled city. This seems to be a definition of what we do as interculturalists:

- we all have different approaches but share the same goal for helping our
client 'journeymakers'

- we adjust the excursion or exploration according to the needs, abilities and

circumstances of the person making the journey [crudely put, their 'baggage']

- we continue to learn and be affected by these excursions as we accompany the

journeymaker

So the question is for the journeymaker [if I read your point correctly] "Will
this excursion affect the 'real me'and in what way? What makes 'me'?"

In asking the question in this everyday language they are formulating what
others have asked in more specialist ways as philosophers, psychoanalysts &
theologians over the past 5000 years. [I should thank Peter here for his
detailed response and review of how philosophers have tackled this]

10
Where this becomes interesting is to observe the basis on which 'authentic me'
is made in different cultures. In very simple terms an 'authentic me' in a
communal based society might be implicitly 'I am being the 'authentic me' when I
recognise the needs of my group and how we recognise that in each other'. In
countries like UK and America the 'authentic me' is far more indidualistically
based [I'll take about "Possessive Indidualism' in more detail further down the
page]

Where we come in as guides is to help the journeymaker to recognise that

different cultures vary in how they permit definitions of 'authentic me'.
Inevitably that will lead them to review the basis on which their own 'authentic
me' is constructed; as you say George some will be resistant and others will
explore widely. It all depends on their 'baggage' and to some extent how good we
are as guides in helping them to explore

Definitions of personal identity and authenticity do seem to vary widely between

say Japan in contrast with the classical 'Possessive Individualism' definitions
which have been dominant in England and America for the past 300 years.

Now at this point I want to talk about Possessive Individualism in a bit of

detail so I will literally draw a line here so as not to confuse the plot! The
key point though is that societies themselves change historically and thereby
affect definitions of 'authentic me'. [That rate of change and complexity in
definitions of the 'authentic me' perhaps challenges the classifications of the
more rigid cultural dimensions writers]

-------------------------------------------------
POSSESSIVE INDIVIDUALISM

This leads me to refer to a book [which also might appear on Dianne's list]which
looks at how definitions of 'authentic me' have changed in historic terms.
[Please note that I am going to take liberties in my summary - this is intended
as a blog not a dissertation!]

'The Political Theory of Possessive Individualism' by C.B. Macpherson is a true

classic. He looks at the roots of individualism in the context of the rise of
capitalism [firstly in England and then by extension to America where it takes
on another 'stronger' form].

Macpherson shows how the British Empiricists like Hobbes, Locke and Hume both
influenced and reflected the times they were in [1500s - 1700s]. They provided a
rationale for the increasingly individualistic orientation away from the
previous community based behavioural patterns. The new consensus became 'to each
his own' as a way of expressing the 'authentic me'- many other cultures found
this change strange and threatening.

11
"The Fable of the Bees: or, Private Vices, Publick Benefits" by Bernard
Mandeville in 1714 and 1732 caused a stir by giving a stark reminder that an
'authentic me' involving a great deal of self interest and individualism might
be the pragmatic way to survive. It's another one of those books which both
reflect the times and act as change agents.

Whatever the intentions 'Fable of the Bees' became on apologia for a certain
type of 'authentic me'. It is satirical and as we see from current political and
financial events highly relevant today.

I guess I am a long way from your short succinct observations George! But if it
provides an aid or tool to fellow guides then I'll be happy.

--- In interculturalinsights@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. George F. Simons"

<diversophy@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for your insights, Roland,
>
> When I started this thread, I was primarily interested in the phenomenon of
> people who refuse to learn and try new behaviors in cultural (and other)
> contexts with the resistance statement, "I want to be authentic," and
> "That's just not me."
>
> The agreed response from interculturalists on the list so far seems to be
> that "me" or "authenticity" is a dynamic process driven for some by a
> Platonic, moral or spiritual ideal, and that the above sort of statement
> reflects restraints, perhaps fear and risk of change, need for stability.
>
> The image I have is that most of us one way or another live in a walled
> city, and it is the role of teacher's, guides, gurus, friends, etc., etc.,
> to take us on little safe excursions outside the gate so that be are able to
> include more and more of the countryside as our familiar territory.
> Sometimes there are big safari breakthroughs, but usually just a piece of
> the landscape at a time becomes accessible to us so that we can return there
> and explore further. Or, we could say, our walls expand to take in more.
>
> For guides, the issue is that of generating the right balance of safety and
> support along with risk, newness and challenge.
>

> Best, George

Roland Dunne
Message #15758 rolanddunne@gmail.com Aug 6, 2009

12
Re: Authenticity & Personal Identity: concept versus experience Re: Authenticity &
Personal Identity: concept versus experience

Dear Peter

Many thanks for your detailed expansion of this topic. I have replied to you in
the context of another reply but wanted here to acknowledge your important
points on the historic and cultural context of personal identity and
authenticity. That's why I find CB Macpherson's "Political Theory of Possessive
Individualism' so helpful; please see my reply to George on that

You raise the issue of brands and authenticity. I note as you do the adoption of
branding techniques by individuals in furtherance of their careers. Another take
on that is this indicates the prevalence of narcissism in the West

As to corporate branding this is an area I have been much involved with in my

international brand translation consulting for automotive and other companies. A
'whole other' topic that and I'd be glad to pursue it in another thread. Suffice
to say that the issue of 'authenticity' does arise for some companies and not
for others

Thanks for a very interesting reply [some of which I have selected below]
ROLAND

--- In interculturalinsights@yahoogroups.com, Peter Isackson <isackson@...>

wrote:
>
> Dear Roland et al,
> The appeal to the philosophical tradition can lead us up some thorny
> paths, but the effort is often worth it, just as a way of adding depth
> to our perspective,
............
> My point is that this discussion should be seen in the context of its
> own cultural background. As I mentioned earlier, authenticity was a
> major theme of the existentialists (......... So far from
> being a concept specific to English, the notion of authenticity is
> shared - as Carmen insists - by all Western languages, with of course
> the apposite cultural nuances.
>
> I really do think that it's important to take into account the notion of
> branding, which is at the heart of all our economic activity in the
> West. (I read a recent article in the US press about how the powerful
> new Chinese enterprises have neglected branding, or rather the concern
> to make their name and image known to the general public). Branding and
> Narrativity are closely related. But if branding is felt as an economic

13
> necessity and accepted as ethically consistent with one's personal or
> instiutional narration, it poses a serious problem of authenticity. What
> is authentic, the brand (the narration) or the being? Strawson appears
> to argue that both points of view are possible and should be recognized,
> but the current culture tends to repress the Episodic, which takes the
> liberty of undermining it's own brand
> - Peter

Roland Dunne
Message #15772 rolanddunne@gmail.com Aug 7, 2009

14
Must See Intercultural Movies

Inspired by Dianne'a "Must Read Intercultural Books" would members of this group
like to propose their "Must See Intercultural Movies / Films"?

I suggest that we try to adopt a basic structure so that we can compile a set of
results later. Maybe along these lines:

SUBJECT - "Must See Intercultural Movies: movie title[s]"

WHAT - name of movie, year, director and main cast

WHY - why you rate this
WHERE - suggest where this movie can be obtained
WHITTLE ON - add any other comments you like on that movie
WRITE ON - any other articles, sites or comments about intercultural movies

I am sure we will have to devise a classification later but for now let's
encourage movies from around the world, not just Anglo-American productions and
language

I've used Movies as 'stimulus material' in intercultural training and coaching -

for many participants this is a very powerful approach so let's break out the popcorn

----------------------------------
FURTHER POINTS TO GET US STARTED

- Would anyone be willing to help me compile / maintain this list? Eventually it

would be a document to be keep in the FILES section of this group - it will need
some organising by themes etc

- For inspiration: just perform a search for MOVIES within this group's
messages: there are already 250 entries on related points

- Look at http://www.imdb.com/ The IMDB International Movie Database is a

treasure. If you register you can keep a register of all the movies you've seen
and would like to see together with comments. [Movie buffs might like to cross
reference to their own 'site' within IMDB

- A quick Google for 'Intercultural Movies' turns up a lot of material. You

might like to look at some of the following but you can include your own
suggestions in the "WRITE ON" section

http://www.uni-hildesheim.de/interculturalfilm/index.php

http://www.csus.edu/onebook/forms/Martin_communication.pdf
Message #15824 rolanddunne@gmail.com Aug 13, 2009

15
Re: Must See Intercultural Movies: Bottle Shock Re: Must See Intercultural
Movies: Bottle Shock

WHAT - "Bottle Shock" 2008

Director: Randall Miller

Writers (WGA): Jody Savin & Randall Miller (screenplay)
Main cast: Chris Pine Alan Rickman Bill Pullman Jim Barrett
Rachael Taylor Freddy Rodríguez Dennis Farina

IMDB LISTING http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0914797/

WHY - Tagline: Based on a true story of love, victory and fermentation.

Plot: The story of the early days of California wine making featuring the now
infamous, blind Paris wine tasting of 1976 that has come to be known as
"Judgment of Paris"

Nicely plays on the idea of culture / viticulture shock. Based on true story.
French 'old Europe' tradition upset by nouveau arriviste Californian wine
producers. Works on stereotypes of American, French and English behaviour

> WHERE - on DVD in shops and libraries in UK

> WHITTLE ON

A line at the end from the wine merchant who set up the competition says
something like [set in mid 1970s] 'Now that California has won this is the
beginning of the end for French wine; there will be wines from South America,
Australia, Africa, India, China next"

A recent article by a wine writer says that French resistance to marketing their
wine in an interculturally competent way will be it's downfall unless they act
now.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/wine/5925711/Who-said-French-wines-weren\
t-worth-it.html

Is this an opportunity for one of our French based consultants to 'have a go'
and save the French wine industry with a decent slurp of intercultural intervention?

> WRITE ON -
This is a movie I just watched yesterday and which gave me the idea for the
'Must See Intercultural Movies' thread

Message #15826 Aug 13, 2009

16
SatNav or Maps? Reference versus Knowledge

I'm afraid that the recent discussion on Square / Round has fired me up onto
some vaguely related themes

I'd be interested to hear of your personal or observed experience in the use of

Satellite Navigation devices in vehicles and how that relates to the more
traditional use of maps. Is this a generational or cultural issue or a mix of
both

On a related point a rec ent article points out the increased 'literal reliance'
on SatNavs. This seems to relate to a 'rule following', linear, non interpretive
approach [see the Square / Round debate elsewhere in this group]. A map user
will be using a more interpretative approach; they will be able to assess
alternatives at ev ery point according to whim and conditions.

So by this analogy:
Maps = Roundabouts = interpretative culture
SatNavs= Stop signs / Traffic lights = rule based, binary, linear culture

However as Barbara and others have pointed out this refers to a "Roaded culture"
-in parts of Africa and Australia roads don't exist in the conventional sense:
other navigational cues like trails replace them. This might be a Third Way. [We
know from Spatial Psychology that certain Native American Indians were used in
'topping out' American skyscrapers due to the lack of fear of heights based on
their lack of exposure to height in their landscape - I believe similar issues
exist for Aboriginal Australians]

The quote below from Intelligent Life / Economist magazine is very telling on
how Knowledge is being replaced by Storaged access to data - it gives examples
of the 'mis-use' of SatNav. And in another article in the same issue the "Car of
the Future' is described as one in which many of the interpretative aspects of a
driver's discretion is being replaced by 'safety' and 'driver assist' features
to avoid speeding, crashes and help parking.

I'm not really sure where this is all going but thought I'd invite comments.
I've already begun to try out these ideas in training programs and am getting
some worthwhile reactions

---------------------------------
"One day last year a daughter of Earl Spencer (who is therefore a niece of
Princess Diana) called a taxi to take her and a friend from her family home at
Althorp in Northamptonshire to see Chelsea play Arsenal at football. She told
the driver “Stamford Bridge”, the name of Chelsea’s stadium, but he
delivered them instead to the village of Stamford Bridge in Yorkshire, nearly
150 miles in the opposite direction. They missed the game.

17
Such stories are becoming commonplace. A coachload of English schoolchildren
bound for the historic royal palace at Hampton Court wasted an entire day
battling through congested central London as their sat-nav led them stubbornly
to a narrow back street of the same name in Islington. A Syrian lorry driver
aiming for Gibraltar, at the southern tip of Spain, turned up 1,600 miles away
in the English east-coast town of Skegness, which has a Gibraltar Point nearby."
from http://moreintelligentlife.com/content/brian-cathcart/no-passes

Message #15815 Aug 12, 2009 Roland Dunne

Re: SatNav or Maps? Reference versus Knowledge

Barbara

Thanks for helping flesh this topic out with lots of interesting examples.

I like your points about Giver versus Receiver preferences [this would seem to
be akin to an NLP approach]

"So on top of navigational errors relative to name and location of the

destination as in your stories, the directions might not be in a form that all
mindsets interpret in the same way."
Yes - I agree and think that there may well be a gender component lurking there
too.

Englishmen in particular are far more likely to use Pubs [i.e. the ubiquitous
bars found all over town and country]as descriptive markers than women. This
would seem to be supported by your brother's approach "I often don't have a set
of landmarks in my head for various junctions but one of my brothers does)"

And I think everything also changes according to context. When I am sailing or

living near water my whole set of references are different. Island dwellers are
a special case in point.

Yours from a place within 3 mins walk of 10 pubs variously NSEW of me

ROLAND

PS [By the way you are not in my view missing out by not having or needing
SatNav: I can't be bothered to program mine having not been supplied with the
right softward and having observed the limitations of the devices!]

18
--- In interculturalinsights@yahoogroups.com, "Barbara Pirie" <jspirie@...>
wrote:
>
> Roland, fascinating topic
>
> Living on an island in the middle of the Pacific, people don't use SatNav (I'm
not even sure what that is except my mind moves to (I think it is) Google
directions from one address to another - which assumes there are addresses in
the format that is used!. Hardly anyone uses maps here either ...........

Message #15821

Re: SatNav or Maps? Reference versus Knowledge

George

I think your experience of the taxi driver was 'all the above' but perhaps most
of all was exhibiting a supra-cultural dimension of taxi drivers globally - he
was simply trying to get a bigger fare.

Sometimes a taxi ride is just a taxi ride [to badly adapt Freud's point about
cigars sometimes simply being cigars]

ROLAND

--- In interculturalinsights@yahoogroups.com, "Dr. George F. Simons"

<diversophy@...> wrote:
>
> Perhaps an interesting note on SatNav.
>
> Last year I went to a meeting in a small town outside of Geneva and the taxi
driver took me from Cointrin via the autoroute to the town. When we arrived at
the town, the driver stopped to program the address of the place I was going on
his navigator. I could see the building I needed to go to down the road and
pointed it out to him. However, he insisted on programming the beastie on his
dashboard. Was this Swiss precision or anally retentive behavior or contemporary
addiction to gadgetry, or all the above…?
>
>
> George
Message #15823

19
Re: square/curve - Roundabouts as expression of cultural thinking

When the first 'traffic circle' was introduced into Texas at Waco it was so
novel that it became a tourist attraction, and still is to this day. Roundabouts
/ traffic circles are still a huge rarity in the USA - too much ambiguity is
involved for such a legalistic nation!
Carsten, David and Elisabeth all raise a good points.

Roundabouts seem to typify an interpretive, empirical, pragmatic approach to

problem solving which can be seen in the 'British Way'of politics, philosophy,
law, and business. The Empirical, Pragmatic, Ad Hoc approach contrasted with the
Essentialist, Codified, Schematic approaches of Continental Europe. [Already I
forsee someone writing a weighty article on "The Roundabout as Philosophical
Expressionism"!]

I would speculate that more codified legalistic countries [relatively speaking]

like Germany, the USA and others would tend to find interpretative solutions
like roundabouts a little too full of potential for ambiguity.

Americans [I speak as one with an American partner] seem to prefer the yes/no,
stop/go 'dialectic binary'approach rather than the 'smooth flow' which is the
secret of using a roundabout. ....... [But then go figure: I find using 2, 3 and
4 way stops in the USA still open to interpretation and oddly counter intuitive.
Mind you I DO like the "Free Turn on Right" which is allowed in some States but
not all. However I digress.......]

The Brits love a bit of ambiguity [somehow that sounds like a line from the very
British "Carry On" movie]

Yours, Carrying On Roundabouting

ROLAND
Message #15811 Aug 12, 2009

20
More Roundabouts; must be the August 'silly season'? Anglo - German

I looked at David's link to Swindon and then within that found this bizarre site

http://www.roundaboutsofbritain.com/about.htm

A website / group devoted to British Roundabouts! They have "I Love Roundabouts"
T Shirts. Can someone explain to me why the British have these eccentric
tendencies?

I have just seen Elisabeth's latest post and her mention of

http://www.rondellhund.se. I suggest that these 2 roundabouts groups form an
Anglo- German alliance and apply for EU funding.

I can see from the German site that they may have equal claim to eccentricity,
perhaps with a more surrealistic slant than the Brits QV the
http://www.roundaboutdog.net/.

I understand that in certain parts of the UK roundabouts are similarly tended

for the purpose of growing illegal substances: a joint of 'roundabout wacky
baccy' is said to be a growing fad among festival attendees. Even Bob Marley
would be confused by all this

Message #15813 Aug 12, 2009

Document ends – last updated 14 August 2009

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