An Interview with Hadassah Froman

reflecting on her life with the late Rabbi Menahem Froman z"l Translated from Hebrew NRG (MAARIV on line ) by Shifra Kornfeld- 20-09-2013
Hadassah Froman.....photos by Yossi Aloni

Shifra Kornfeld: Before we begin, I feel I must apologize that I might describe you differently than you would yourself. Hadassah Froman: I will tell you what I told my children: I will be the ingredients. What you make with them, that, is already yours. I might not even get around to reading it. S: So why did you agree to the interview? H: Because you asked. Fear S: You know it was difficult for me to come to this area. H: Because you were afraid? S: Also H: I will tell you a story about fear: One Friday I was driving with two of my sons to an old British police station, a beautiful spot in the desert, close to the town of Seir- north of Hebron-. Just hearing the name of the town used to make people shiver. We arrived at the spot and saw a group of men big men. We thought to ourselves; OK, we have a problem. And, then they called us. Come over here. Weve made some meat. Come eat with us. We asked; Where are you from? From Seir, they said. Yalla, come on. We are brothers, neighbors! Come and eat. We started to talk with them and they said, Come to visit the village. We would be happy if you came. Why dont you come? I told them, For years we havent visited. Then one said, Things could be so good. It is fear alone that kills us! S: You dont think that you are idealizing a bit? There are good reasons to fear. In Itamar a whole family was murdered in their sleep. H: Surely there is reason for fear. And here? People have been murdered on this very road. A man was murdered at Herodion, close by. And two children were stoned to death right here in the Wadi. But, this fear builds walls. So I say: "There is 'being careful' and 'there is fear'. It is scary to live, isnt it? Menahem did not fear. He would travel to Gaza to meet alone with Hamas people. He went without security, no escorts. I would ask, Arent you afraid? All your meetings with Arafat, arent you afraid? He was afraid of car accidents. It is a sort of choice one makes. You mark the boundaries of your fear. Fear is also very much the unwillingness to open things, to be open to things that you do not entirely control.

S: And I am not in total control of my life. There are wise decisionsand not so wise ones. Fear does protect me. H: And I think we must differentiate between caution and fear. S: Thats semantics. Caution also distances me from what I have marked as dangerous. H: But most of the things are in your mind, in your imagination. Yes, it does, to an extent, protect you. But if you put it in the right proportions, you would notice you would lose most of your fear. Most people are afraid to come here. They may live in Efrat -a settlement in the center of the Etzion Bloc- and wont come to this area just a few minutes away because it is already different, unknown and scary. S: I wouldnt be able to sleep here. Even at home in Tel Aviv I cant fall asleep without putting on the alarm system. H: Yes, overcoming this fear is challenging, a lesson to be learned.

Commitment to One's Truth

S: Lets say that we can learn not to be afraid to live in a place like this. The question is; is this a path that we can map out for others? H: I am committed to myself and the Almighty. Everyone is committed in the same way; to oneself and to G~d. What happens beyond that is not part of my consciousness, and not part of my responsibility. And, I am a Kibbutznik! Growing up, I was supposed to consider everyones desires and worrying about what others will say. This doesn't seem important or right for me. S: Also as a public figure? H: Also as a public figure I am committed to G~d and my inner truth which I must humbly examine every day and decide what I should to do with it. G~d will already do something with it. You know, often people do a lot of thinking for the public and that does not turn out good. I dont want to live in an awareness of "how will my things be interpreted." S: And what about the rabbinical saying Wise men, be careful with your words.? H: Yes, I should be careful with my words, but I do not want to worry about what they" will say and how they will interpret them. I feel that if I am clear enough, honest and sincere with myself, it will come out fine. S: So, you are who you are and those around can take what they want from it? H: Right. But I also feel part of a broader reality that gives meaning to my existence. I act facing this broader reality. I live in a settlement, not in Tel Aviv. I live in a certain communal consciousness here. This supplies the context within which I live, and gives me strength to be me. S: Do you feel that there were places where your Rav Menahems words were not understood? H: You are being naive. For many years his words would upset and anger many. A Lone Wolf S: So, I will be more precise. Did he say things in order to create debate? H: That IS a good question, because I do not know! He truly was a man of peace. But he also liked to stand in a place where no one else did. There were years he was like a lone wolf standing on a hill calling out. He did not like being politically correct, he was not conventional. He liked to sharpen things to an extreme. S: I try to think about the emotional feeling of standing alone on the hill. These were years of frustration, right? H: Ive wondered about it. Bottom line, so many years he dreamt to get to a situation where there would be a place for everyone. But always another plan failed, another program proved to be unsustainable. So I wonder, didnt he et himself get frustrated!? Or

was he just plain stubborn? And this is a place where he said things that were totally new for everyone, turning everyone upside down. He was a free man, a brave man. I think he liked that place. He did not need people saying Yes. Yes. Yes. But this remains a question since he was a community man. He stood at the center of the great divide: For the left he was a settler and for the right he was a very extreme leftist willing to rethink everything, including Jerusalem... including everything. S: Including Jerusalem? H: Yes. He had a plan that Jerusalem should be international, at least the Temple Mount. S: And what else? H: He did not see two states for two nations. He was against national borders. He said that would bring war, not peace. When the euphoria around Oslo subsided he saw this as an opportunity to begin talking about another kind of peace; not about separation but about a peace that sprouts from the ground. He believed in this as a man who lived amongst Arabs. He believed that they are not far away. There is definitely a simple desire amongst their plain folk, and I hope amongst ours as well, to live in economic, cultural and human cooperation. S: It is not true to say that you live with the Arabs, that there arent roadblocks, fences, etc. H: No, there are not roadblocks. S: I passed through a roadblock to come here. H: I would do away with them immediately. In our consciousness we dont feel that we live with roadblocks. The only roadblock that we have here is fear. People who drive by an Arab village wont stop because they are afraid. But, if someone stops and buys something they see that the village has signs in Hebrew too; here is a grocery store and here a place to buy building materials. The only real block is fear. On the ground there is not separation, besides Seir where, as I told you, people dont enter. S: I was brought up in the Old City Jewish Quarter in Jerusalem and we also bought at an Arab neighbors grocery but still there are clear boundaries. There is a feeling of hate that is different than fear. H: That is what must be changed and to opened urgently. To open the fear, to open the heart! Thats how it was with him (Rabbi Froman). I was just talking to an anthropologist who came from America and accompanied him during the final year. He told me about a mosque that was torched (by settlers) and when Menahem came to the village he was stormy, really excited and upset. On the wall under the steps curses and the words Price Tag were scrawled in Hebrew. He stood there on the top of the staircase leading to the mosque's entrance and the angry villagers stood below. It was a harsh atmosphere. He stood there with his kippah and his beard and began shouting Allahu Akbar and the crowd shouted with him. He screamed it from a warm heart and the crowed joined him Allahu Akbar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6QnrHgFjnY) S: That is a moving story. H: You know, he used to say that the most exact translation of Allahu Akbar is Peace will be victorious! This is a literal translation. Peace/Salaam/Shalom is the name of G~d, by the Muslims and the Jews. Akbar is the greatest!, he whos overcome. This is a penetrating love and vision of the term Peace. To penetrate the reality with this peace. It is there. It is at the root of our existence and it will overcome! He saw this from the religious connection. Everyone is standing with G~d. G~d has put us in the same place. This Land is His... not ours and not theirs. And He, G~d willing

(literally with the aid of G~d") , will connect us in this place. One who does not connect with the "aid of Peace" will not be here! It is as though it is a prerequisite, a condition, for us being here. Feminine Religion To stand at the mosque and shout Allahu Akbar, that only a man can do, because it is a man's place. But this man thought differently to enter without force. To totally enter the others place and remain totally oneself. This is a very feminine act. Menahem spoke a lot about the feminization of religion. He said that this is a process that religion is undergoing, to open to a feminine side. This, he says, is a sign of The Redemption when religions will be a religion of Kabbala, of receiving. Then the hidden worlds will find expression. . S: Do you define yourself as a Feminist? H: I dont know if I would define myself that way. Definitions are headlines and I am not in a definition or under a headline. You might say that I celebrate all my feminine elements. My learning is like this. How do I continue his path? Via feminine means. When the 30 day memorial approached I went to the Yeshiva where he taught Zohar. For an hour and a half I stood and taught Zohar to students and Rabbis... and it was really OK. S: OK? It is amazing! H: Yes, youre right. I was much moved. In my consciousness, we both do it together. I love teaching men. There is a Beit Midrash of Ellul in the Nahlaot in his memory; men and women learning together. There is something very powerful when the masculine learning exists alongside the feminine. It can be fruitful. On Rosh HaShana I will give a talk in the synagogue. I will stand there and he, with me.

After Death
S: It seems to me that you dont experience his death as a separation. H: Rabbi Nahman said that it is like moving from one room to another one. When one has worked on his spiritual tools in this world, developing spiritual "language" then his expression continues, getting even stronger. He, who does not fear, sees it happen. To stand facing death and understand that something new is happening to me; that there is continuation and upgrade. There are no separations. Everything continues. It is fear that creates the huge separation. S: So the lesson that I take from here is not to fear H: Lately, that is the huge lesson that I is constantly with me.

Original Hebrew: http://www.nrg.co.il/online/11/ART2/507/694.html?hp=11&cat=1104&loc=10