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NATIONAL COMMISSION ON
TERRORIST ATTACKS UPON THE UNITED STATES

Minutes of the June 5, 2003 Meeting

The Chair called the Commission to order at 8:34 AM on June 5,2003. Chairman Kean,
Vice-Chair Hamilton, and Commissioners Ben-Veniste, Fielding, Gorelick, Gorton,
Lehman, Roemer, and Thompson were present.

FBI & CIA Briefings. The FBI provided a Secret-level briefing on the Bureau's ongoing
PENTTBOM investigation. The CIA provided a Top Secret briefing summarizing their
analysis of the 9-11 plot and plotters. Representatives of both agencies remained present
to answer Commissioner questions.

Minutes. Commissioner Roemer moved to approve the minutes of the May 21-22
meeting. Commissioner Ben-Veniste requested that the footnote to the minutes be
removed and, after the meeting, he secured agreement to this request. The minutes were
approved.

Information Access. The Executive Director described a major document request that
the Commission had submitted to the Executive Office of the President (EOP). The
request reflected prior negotiations with Adam Ciongoli on behalf of the White House.
The request was comprehensive in its coverage of NSC and other White House meeting
inputs and outputs that were distributed to the meeting participants, as well as meeting
minutes whether distributed or not. The Executive Director noted that the Commission
would be making a further request to cover necessary internal White House or NSC
documents as well. Commissioner Roemer and others stressed the importance of these
documents.

The Vice Chair inquired about the significance of the September 20, 2001 cut-off date as
noted in the EOP document request. The Executive Director noted that this was a useful
punctuation point for covering the "immediate response" to the attacks, marking the end
of the initial wave of domestic and foreign policy moves, several of which were
announced that day in the President's address to Congress.

Commissioner Roemer asked why the Commission had agreed to 9/20, noting that he saw
no qualitative difference in 11/20 versus 9/20. The Chair expressed his appreciation of
Commissioner Roemer's position, and noted that there are practical limitations on staff
time and resources. In addition, the Chair noted that there is value in the Commission not
appearing to be a fishing expedition. The Executive Director noted that 9/20 was a
relatively broad definition for the term "immediate response," which many tended to
equate with emergency response on 9/11 itself. But that Commissioner Roemer's
concern could also be addressed through the Commission's additional mandate to review,
identify, and evaluate the lessons learned from the attacks and make recommendations
for the future. The General Counsel suggested that the decision to use 9/20 was tactical.

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Commissioner Roemer replied that the Joint Inquiry did not put an end-date on its
requests and that the Commission should maintain its flexibility. Commissioner Ben-
Veniste observed that the Commission should not be foreclosed from requesting
information from the White House after 9/20, and expressed his concern about setting a
precedent. He asked if it was clear to the White House that the Commission is entitled to,
and will, make requests for, information beyond September 20, 2001. The Executive
Director and General Counsel stated that the Commission had established a clear legal
position on post-9/20 requests, and that it will be entitled to documents relating to lessons
learned.

Commissioner Fielding inquired about the significance of the January 1,1998 start date
for full-scale documentary investigation. The Executive Director made four points: 1)
Early in that year the Clinton administration adopted the basic structural approach it
would use in the war on terrorism for the remainder of its term in office, in the PDD-62
document signed in March 1998; 2) Also in early 1998, Usama bin Laden issued his first
public fatwa and 1998 was the year in which the 9/11 plot appears to have been hatched;
3) The period allowed the Commission to set the context before and after the watershed
pre-9/11 event, the August 1998 attacks on the US embassies in Nairobi and Dar-es-
Salaam; and 4) the 1998 start-date was a general guide, but was and would be adjusted
where particular investigatory leads required documents going further back. The Chair
reiterated that the Commission is not chronologically tied down at either end of the
investigation.

The General Counsel noted that the Commission has given the White House three weeks
to comply with the document request because of its need to review documents for
executive privilege. He added that they might need a bit more time to produce their NSC
documents and that providing documents from the Clinton administration may take more
time due to their storage at the National Archives and the provisions of the Presidential
Records Act.

Commissioner Roemer noted that it would be important to request specific information

from Dick Clarke, including his emails and notes, and to interview individuals in TNT
[the Transnational Threats Directorate of the NSC staff] and the more current Office for
Combating Terrorism such as [Roger] Cressey, [Lisa Gordon-] Hagerty, [Steven] Simon,
and [Daniel] Benjamin.

Commissioner Gorelick asked if the information covered by the EOF request would
include intelligence coming from the CIA and the FBI regarding the nature of the threat.
The Executive Director responded that such requests would be directed to the agency that
had originated the documents. Commissioner Gorelick also inquired as to whether the
White House conducted its own look-back, especially in light of Rice's May 2002 press
conference, and the document from which she had spoke at the time. She stated that the
Commission should request such documents. The Executive Director said that he knew of
no such after-action review by the White House.

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Regarding outstanding document requests, Commissioner Ben-Veniste asked if there
were any indication of delays or problems with full compliance. The General Counsel
responded that the FAA and Department of Defense were the only agencies, to date, that
had missed a deadline, but that staff was working with both agencies to ensure more
prompt compliance.

The Executive Director announced that the staff had drafted a request for detainee
documents. He noted that the Commission has asked the executive branch to coordinate a
response by the recipients of the detainee document request—CIA, FBI, or DoD. He
added that the Commission was seeking information on the Moussaoui-related aspects of
the investigation and that the Justice Department lawyers were developing a plan that
would allow them to be responsive, consistent with the applicable court orders.

The Vice Chair observed that the staff had done a good job with respect to document
requests, and that the EOF request was a giant step forward on the Commission's behalf.

Interviews. The General Counsel reminded Commissioners of their previous decision to

prohibit the presence of minders in official interviews. He recommended that the
Commission maintain this basic position, but added that the staff remains very
ambivalent about recordings. The General Counsel suggested that the Commission may
want to consider an exception to its reluctance to allow agency representatives to attend
interviews in the case of high-ranking policy officials. He noted further that it will be
difficult to conduct interviews with foreign intelligence agencies without such 'minders'
being present because of agency concerns about potential compromise of sources and
methods. This exception would apply only to Intelligence Community elements.

Commissioner Ben-Veniste urged that it should be the sense of the Commission that the
FBI should not be included in this exception.

Joint Inquiry. The General Counsel noted Chairman Goss's previously stated intention
to provide the report or some alternative by the end of May. The General Counsel
observed that the delivery of the report seemed, at best, to be weeks away. He noted that
the Chair and Vice Chair have to make a judgment as to whether they should push Goss
on his vague alternative. The Vice Chair and Commissioner Gorelick suggested that there
should be an exchange of letters making a record of the delay, explaining the situation,
and tying Chairman Goss down to something specific.

The General Counsel stated that the CIA did not keep a second set of Agency documents
provided to the Joint Inquiry. The Executive Director noted that the executive branch has
been sharply critical of the Joint Inquiry's inability to provide its copies of CIA
documents to the Commission. He added that the Commission is now seeking to obtain a
copy of these documents directly from the Joint Inquiry; however, the Joint Inquiry's
position is that the Commission can't review these documents because they are mixed
with privileged internal communications. The General Counsel noted that the Joint
Inquiry has offered to redact the index of CIA documents, but that this route would prove
too slow. He concluded that the Commission has revisited this issue with Adam Ciongoli,

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requesting that the CIA make copies for the Commission of many of the documents it had
already copied for the Joint Inquiry. The Joint Inquiry was simply incapable of providing
what was needed with sufficient speed.

Clearances. Commissioner Ben-Veniste expressed his concern that 25% of the staff have
not received their security clearances. The Executive Director explained that with the
exception of a few individuals, the still-uncleared staff are the Commission's most recent
hires.

Special Government Employees. Commissioner Gorton reported that Senator Gregg

had agreed to include in the Commerce, State, Justice, and Judiciary appropriations bill
an exemption for Commissioners as SGEs, which would remove the 130-day annual limit
on work by Commissioners.

Press Guidelines. The Chair noted two concerns: leaks and the appearance of division
within the Commission.

Commissioners Ben-Veniste and Gorelick agreed that they do not want internal
disagreements played out in the press. Commissioner Gorelick stated her belief that
barring the Commissioners from talking to the press puts the Commission at a
disadvantage and prevents the Commissioners from utilizing their relationships with the
press. She added that it would be helpful to relay questions to the Commission's Press
Deputy, Al Felzenberg, so that the Commission knows what questions are being asked.

Commissioner Roemer stated his belief that Commissioners should not have to clear
every public statement with the Press Deputy. He believed that Commissioners need to
remain nonpartisan and constructive in their comments in order to maintain trust and
good working relations among the Commissioners.

Commissioner Fielding urged the Commission to consider the practice followed by the
AGA Standing Committee on the Federal Judiciary, which directs all press comment to
the Chair only; acknowledging that while this might be unattractive to some, it works
very efficiently and effectively.

The Vice Chair observed that press commentary impacts the Commission's interactions
with the executive branch, noting that Judge Gonzales had raised two specific examples.
The Vice Chair added that, based on previous discussions, he is uneasy with the notion
that the Chair and Vice Chair are the sole spokesmen for the Commission. He asked
Commissioners to use their good judgment and to be careful about divisive comments.

Public Hearings. The Chair questioned some of the locations and topics of proposed
hearings, noting the tremendous staff time that public hearings take. Commissioner Ben-
Veniste suggested that the Commission work backwards when considering what the most
important hearings are. The Vice Chair recommended that the Commissioners study the
proposed schedule and provide their comments to the staff.

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Commissioner Ben-Veniste suggested that there be an after-action discussion for the May
22-23 public hearing. The Executive Director noted that an after-action meeting had
already occurred at a staff level, but that it would be useful to do so at the Commission
level.

Next Meeting. The Executive Director announced that the next meeting, on June 26,
would cover a sensitive set of issues and would include briefings by the FBI and CIA. In
addition, FBI Director Mueller will speak on the Bureau's transformation. Commissioner
Gorelick invited the Commissioners to her home for dinner on the evening of July 8.

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 WITH DRAWAL NOTICE

RG: 148
Box: 00001 Folder: 0002 Document: 2
Series: Stephanie Kaplan Files

Copies: 1 Pages: 16

ACCESS RESTRICTED

The item identified below has been withdrawn from this file:

Folder Title: Kaplan Notes - General, Comm. Mtgs [2 of 2]

Document Date: 06-05-2003
Document Type: Handwritten Notes
Special Media:
From:
To:

Subject: Notes on June 5 meeting

In the review of this file this item was removed because access to it is
restricted. Restrictions on records in the National Archives are stated in
general and specific record group restriction statements which are available
for examination.

NND: 301
Withdrawn: 06-11 -2008 by:

RETRIEVAL #: 301 00001 0002 2

System DocID: 2629