I

Thomas H. Kean
CHAIR
DOS INTERVIEW REQUEST NO. 9
Lee H. Hamilton
VICE CHAIR
The National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
Richard Ben-Veniste
(the "Commission") requests interviews with the following Department
Max Cleland of State officials during the weeks of October 13, October 20, or
Fred F. Fielding
October 27. Please provide a proposed date, time, and location for these
interviews no later than October 9,2003, if possible. The anticipated
Jamie S. Gorelick length of each interview is two hours.
Slade Gorton
1. George Lannon
John Lehman
2. Catherine Barry
Timothy J. Roemer 3. Travis Farris
4. Karl Wycoff
James R, Thompson
5. Charles H. Brayshaw
6. Albert A. Thibault, Jr.
Philip D. Zelikow 7. Richard Baltimore
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
8. Arthur Mills
9. Carl Cockbum
10.
u:
12. Thomas Krajeski
13. Michael Polt
14. Charisse Phillips

The Commission anticipates that classified information may be discussed

at these interviews. The Commission reserves the right to re-interview
these individuals based on the results of the requested interviews and the
needs of the Commission.

September 30, 2003 Daniel Marcus

General Counsel

9/11 Working-level Employee

TEL (202) 331-4060

FAX (202) 296-5545
www,9-l lcommission.gov
Joanne Accolla
From: sdunne@9-11commission.gov
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 11:04 AM
To: hofmannkw@state.gov
Cc: brian.h.hook@usdoj.gov; dmarcus@9-11commission.gov; team5@9-11commission.gov;
dcampagna@9-11 commission.gov
Subject: DOS interview request no. 9

DOS interview
request no 9.doc...
Karl: Attached is DOS interview request no. 9. Please call Susan Ginsburg at
202-401-1747 with any questions about the topics to be covered and to make
arrangements for these interviews. Feel free to call Dan or me as well if any
issues arise. Thanks. Steve
9/11 Working-level Employee
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I ""-... [interview Questions

Background i

Who issued visas in Jeddah

Term in Jeddah: July 2000-?

Who served at post with you and was involved, in visa processing, from whatever
agency? One-day overlap with Rob Waller. . ..

What were the roles of each person involved in issuing visas?

9/11 Classified Information

Saudi Visa policy pre 9-11

Saudis as a group presumed to overcome 214(b) presumption. rt.

• Conveyed to her orally by^EUMHir7^/jy«-««
• In a cable from Riyadh - Riyadh 02002 discusses general'inapplicability of
section 214(b) to Saudi Nationals NJ^T^nf^0
• SA had a "virtual visa waiver program"
It was interview by exception (alstp true for TCNs)
• TCNS were the focus.

Ba^is for this presumption

/ • She saw Saudis don't work - explore - have people do everything for them.
• Travel to the U.S. was a rite of passage.
s* Feedback from the INS - please describe as precisely as possible. ^ V
/ • U.S. foreign policy to be friends with GCC countries?

For TCNs, validation studies sometimes showed they overstayed/

y' Interviews: If applicant's story about the reasons for travel to the U.S. were consistent
with cultural norms for Saudis, there was no reason to second guess the applicant.

Requests to interview a Saudi prompted question from the Saudi Foreign Ministry to
CG?

Facilities and resources issues

Were personnel adequate?

Worked until 10 p.m. at night in summer of 2001.

 Handled 400-500 cases per day. Still interviewed all first-time students.
"£ ' '
Facilities adequate? Trailer? <1

Numbers: 450 per day in busy season. 200 in low. Sometimes as few as 50 per day.

How many interviews per day?

Particular requirements in Jeddah ,

I
[Waller said that for a B 1 /B2 visa, NO DOCUMENTATION WAS REQUIRED.]
True?

Also, no documentation required for students except for the 1-20. ~-\0*SC^

Junior Officer - EL HINN? - denying visas to Saudis telling them - apply next year from
a REAL SCHOOL. In contravention of CA policy.

Aware of interviewuig project for Saudis by agency in Jeddah? Describe it.

j_ |said he developed an SOP. Did she see it?

] [said they interviewed 100% of first-time students, 80% of all students, and 5% of
/all other Saudi applicants.] True?

Knowledge about Saudi Jihadists

What intelligence did you have about the AQ presence in Saudi Arabia pre-9-11?

Receive any terrorist warnings from colleagues at post?

Did a Saudi visa applicant's travel to Iran, Pakistan or Afghanistan cause you any
concern pre 9-11? If so, what would you do in response? i

Knowledge about AQ

Know about AQ use of fraudulent travel stamps?

Know about AQ use of HC PPts?

Know about AQ use of Saudi PPts in general?

How the system worked in Jeddah

9/11 Working-level Employee

What information was available to you at post different than what was available in
CLASS?
What information was kept in filed in Jeddah and used routinely in visa adjudication?

Did the visa system have a flag when the applicant had a previous visa from your post?

Was there any way the system checked the veracity of the applicant's statements?

Three hjs — Mihdhar, Saeed Al Ghamdi, and Hanjour (in 1998) -- lied on their
applications and said they had never applied for a visa previously,
• Would those "lies" have been of concern pre 9-11?
• If they had been noticed, would they have prompted greater scrutiny pre 9-11?
• What about since 9-11?

Issues in general

Incompleteness - not an issue because Saudis generally eligible. "Furthermore, INS

generally didn't have access to those applications anyway." — What did she mean?

Other issues - by hijacker

Hanjour
• Why a 1 997 application still existed?
" who wrote what on 9-10-00 application?
• Who circled the items and why?
• How would circled items be filled in, and by whom?
• Why not indicated refused under 22 1 (g) on app?
• On 9-25-00 app, who wrote what?
• On 9-1 0-00 app, applicant signs, on 9-25, applicant and preparer sign and are the
same - an issue?
• Put down going to flight school, put down same thing in 1997 - If known, would
have caused denial?
• Fact had B visa from 1 99 1 , and had been admitted in 1 996 as a prospective
student then an issue that could have caused denial?
• Fact had applied for two F-l visas to go to ELS an issue?
• Fact had applied for an M-l visa in 1998 (and was ultimately approved in 1-01) -
in other words, had a change of status PENDING ~ would have affected visa
application?

KAM's application does not appear to be signed by the applicant. Unusual?

Fact he had earlier visa not surfaced. Unusual?

Saeed Al Ghamdi
Two applications like KAM - Not detected
Ahmed Ai Nami
Signature in wrong place.

Has writing indicating an interview?

Has crossed out "no" on visa question and changed it to "yes"

Had new passport - an issue?

Source "walk in" - means in person?

Al Haznawi
Has circles indicating what?

Sheet says "walk in"

Al Omari
Married - unusual or an issue?

Wail Al Shehri

No "source" -- Unusual

Mohand Al Shehri

Has the terrorist organization stamp - why?

Ahmed Al Ghamdi

Different handwriting on the circled items - unusual?

Often someone else who filled it out in office for the applicant?

Post 9-11 issues n\

Statement about zero-tolerance on incompleteness came from where?

Told by CA not to change procedures.

Then publicized no change, and were reprimanded.

In general, confusion?

Describe mood in Jeddah in year after 9-11?

9/11 Working-level Employee

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