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Folder Title: Civilians - WTC & surroud. areas - 911 calls


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NND: 45280
Withdrawn: 02-08-2007 by:

RETRIEVAL #: 45280 00000nyc2 0004 1


INT CARL TENDLER, 3-2-04

police witness #1
spoke to dePaolo, preliminary commission, architects, civil
enginerrs,
civil engineering society, said he'd call when they got money;
before building 1 blew up, there was a preliminary explosion, TV
tower
rose up through clouds for a second, came back down,
police helicopter, hovering off to the side, for a little while,
just
before the explosion occurred he backed off, he would have been caught,
took pictures,
saw condition of aircraft,
1st plane flew over terrace not more than 100 ft, throttled back,
not at
full power, less than cruising speed, 210, 220, straight as arrow,
pulled up slightly, started to climb, % way up,
911, put onto fire dept, he said "where' I said manhattan:
where? We're on our way,
CBS news called, should have tapes from while it was happening,
affiliate
in Canada,
Called FBI, (#1 on police witness list), they took name and
number, called
them back once again and
Heard they were interested in info re #2 aircraft;
#2 aircraft, came from Newark, it was all over the place, looked
like it
would miss building, banked and made turn into edge of building,
surmise there was fighting going on in the cockpit, had to be
something
going on there, maybe got throats cut and dragged out of seat,
Maxine green, said should call if commission doesn't act on this;
2 MAIN POINTS: 1) explosion in tower 1 before it collapsed (NYPD
helicopter moved back just in time; 2) surmises there was struggle in
cockpit of plane #2 before it hit from the way it was flying;

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INT BRIAN CLARK, 3-2-04, at 199 Water St

• Euro Brokers located on 31st floor of 1 WTC at time 1993 bombing, scheduled
to move that evening to 84th floor of 2 WTC; moved delayed by a couple of
weeks;
• After '93, fire drills conducted every six months; approx 10 people per floor
were designated fire wardens (BC was a fire warden on 84th floor for Euro
Brokers) and given whistles, flashlights etc by building; Euro Brokers fire
wardens were also given walkie-talkies, good for communication up to several
blocks away, from their company; procedure for fire drill was for wardens to
direct people in their areas to the center of the floor, where a phone was
located for warden to call down the Fire Command desk; wardens were never
given uniform instructions on evacuation, e.g., not told specifically to
evacuate up or down, but rather to await instructions specific to situation; after
drill, wardens would meet and confer with PA security;
• On Sept 11th, Euro Brokers occupied entire 84th floor of 2 WTC;
• Approx 250 employees were in the office at 8:46;
• BC was in his office near the southeast corner of building; when 1st plane hit;
• Lights blinked and BC saw bright flame outside his window, which was burst
of flame coming out of the south side of the north tower; not entirely aware of
what happened; thought there was an explosion above,
• BC was a fire warden and thought it was good idea to start evacuating people
in his area; BC himself did not consider leaving, did not feel great urgency;
• Approx 200 of the 250 employees successfully evacuated; some took
elevators, some took stairs;
• At approx 8:55, strobe lights flashed, a siren sounded to get attention of
building occupants, and a building announcement came over the PA system:
Your Attention Please. Building 2 is secure. There is no need to evacuate
building 2. If you are in the midst of evacuation, you may use the re-entry
doors and the elevators to return to your floor. The message was then
repeated in full;
• As a result, approx ten people returned to the 84l floor; some, who were in
the process of evacuating (e.g., on stairs) made decision to turn around, others
were personally told to go back up by PA security in the lobby (see below); it
is EC's belief that only one of the people told to return to offices at or above
impact floors survived;
• Most people who remained on the 84th floor migrated to windows on the
northeast side of the building in the trading area facing the plaza (trading area
occupied eastern side of the floor); from there saw debris and people fall from
north tower; also had TV's there;
• Shortly before 9:03, BC helped hysterical co-worker to restroom on western
side of building core and then proceeded to make a call from an office on the
northern side of the building; he was here when plane hit building 2;
• When plane hit, room disintegrated; floor held, but everything on ceiling came
down, air conditioning ducts, speakers etc; no flames or black smoke, just
construction dust and instant darkness; then, building seemed to torque
sideways for approx 5-8 seconds, went approx 1 yd, stopped, and went back
other way (much more sway than any wind storm);
BC, a fire warden, waved his flashlight around and got 7 people in his area;
led them over fallen items etc to center of building (where 3 stairwells and
elevators were); then led them down closest stairway, happened to be
Stairway A; did not check whether stairways B & C were passable, but there
are no stories to BC's knowledge of anyone escaping down those stairs
(except possibly having switched to them from stair. A at a much lower
point);
At this point, BC knew it was a terrorist attack but did not know what had hit
their building (south tower); knew that a plane had hit tower 1 (from TV) but
not clear what kind of plane or other details;
On the 81st floor, BC's group met a heavy woman and a thin man; heavy
woman was struggling, physically incapable of climbing stairs, and says, "you
can't go down, stop, we've just come off a floor in flames;" BC not sure what
floor she came from but guesses, based on her capacity to climb and time, it
was probably 79th; thin man does not say anything; this was approx 9:05 AM;
These 9 begin debate about whether to go up or down, BC shines flashlight on
each of them; within about 15 seconds, they hear cries for help coming from
81st floor; calls are from Stanley Praimnath of Fuji Bank;
BC grabs colleague, Ron DiFrancesco, and they manage to squeeze through
space between fire escape door frame and fallen drywall to get onto floor;
While doing so, BC sees 2 colleagues (Robert Coll, ? York) start to help
heavy woman up stairs; another colleague, David Vera, also started up the
stairs; because he was a fire warden too, he had a walkie-talkie;
On 81st floor, BC sees a lot more smoke but no flames (though occupant of
81st floor saw flames from where he was sitting);
While attempting to reach cries for help w/ BC Ron DiFrancesco was
overcome by smoke (had been using a gym bag as a mask); there was a lot
more smoke on 81st floor though still no flames; RD goes upstairs in search of
clearer air;
BC gets to Stanley, who is trapped behind wall of drywall (they break through
and BC helps Stanley over) and they proceed down stairs;
In many places, outer 2 (of 3) layers of drywall blown off, either fallen over
railings or covering stairs, like a slide; there is also a lot of water on stairs;
Flames were visible through cracks in wall at around the 78th floor, but could
see no roaring inferno;
By 74l floor, it was pretty much normal conditions, maybe a little water, but
fresh air;
On the 68th floor, BC and SP met another Euro Broker fire warden, Jose
Merrero, who was walking up; he had escorted a number of people down the
stairs, including one overweight person; had gotten down to about the 50th
floor (BC surmises) and heard over the walkie-talkie that David Vera was
upstairs helping people (DV went up stairs at 81 with heavy woman); he
decided to go up to help him;
He was the only person BC and SP met in the stairway; there was no
emergency personnel and they did not hear any further announcements;
They proceeded down, checking transfer doors for heat before they entered;
Stopped on 44th floor to check the lower Sky Lobby (higher one on 78th floor);
there was no one there but a South Asian security guard (about 65 or 70) at his
post with a severely injured younger man (Caucasian, about 30, massive head
wounds, not apparent how he was injured); SP broke briefly with man; BC
spoke with security guard; he asked if they had phone, his were not working;
says he'll stay with injured man but asks them to please call for assistance;
They proceeded down stairs and stopped on 31 (a re-entry floor) to look for a
phone; found one working in an Oppenheimer (later learned) conference
room; BC made call to 911 at 9:40 AM; reported to female operator that there
was a severely injured man on the 44l floor, need to send a medic and a
stretcher; operator says you're going to have to tell my supervisor, puts him
on hold for at least 30, 40 seconds; another woman gets on, says 'yes sir can I
help you?', BC reiterates request and reports where he himself is; 2nd operator
says you're going to have to tell my supervisor and puts on hold for about
another minute; when 3rd woman comes on, BC says, I'm only going to say
this once, don't put me on hold, and repeats vital info, then says I'm not
staying on the phone any longer, I'm leaving now and hangs up;
BC and SP go back to stairs and continue uninterrupted; slow down around
15th floor, and eventually reach plaza level on north side of building; looked
into plaza, like an archaelogical dig;
Continued down escalator to concourse level, where saw a female security
official (most likely PA security, no firefighting, police gear); says they can't
go through lobby, must go through concourse to Victoria's Secret, turn right
and go out by Sam Goody;
Woman did not question them as to how to they got out (though they were the
only people in the lobby at the time, Stanley was injured, both were covered in
dust, and it should have been apparent they came from high floor);
In concourse, there was random activity of firefighters, mostly getting
themselves organized; they did not give BC and SP any directions, nor did
they question them about escape route;
Exited concourse as directed and came out 4 WTC on Liberty (closer to
Church); FF tells them, if you're going to cross Liberty, you've got to go for it
(referring to falling debris); BC asked if he should look up to determine
appropriate time to go; FF says no, they should just go for it; BC looked up
anyway and they ran across; got across safely;
Ran into deli on Greenwich St, where given water and a tray of food; many
people at the deli looking for water etc;
Continued down Greenwich St, not densely populated, not too many
emergency personnel, but people were generally walking away from scene so
didn't need to be directed;
Continues down on Trinity Place, where saw a couple of ministers, who said
short prayer and told them Trinity Church was open;
Right outside church, SP remarked that building could come down; BC started
to say no, and just then first collapse began (series of explosions, different
from floors just falling; glass burst out of windows, then top slid; BC thought
it had just collapsed from above fire line)
Wave of dust came over church; ran to 42 Broadway where they stayed for
approx 45 mins, then wandered towards east river; there BC somehow got
separated from SP;
At approx 10:45 AM, as walking through haze near Pier 11 on FDR (not
elevated) BC heard bullhorn directing people to ferry to Jersey City; (it wasn't
until approx this time that BC knew both towers had come down);
On ferry, mostly civilians; no injured people, mostly just business people
trying to get away; got off ferry, called home, walked to Hoboken and was
able to take train [NJ transit?] home (trains were delayed but running); was
home by 1:15;

OTHER STORIES:

Robert Coll, Euro Brokers: Was in process of evacuating (probably by stairs)


when heard announcement and went back up with a few people; he survived
initial impact on 84th floor, began down stairway A with BC, but went up
(helping heavy woman) and presumably died in collapse;
Michelle Scarpitta, Euro Brokers: Arrived in lobby at first plane hit; not
discouraged from entering building (because she did), was in elevator on way
up when plane hit building; elevator got stuck on 12th floor (known because
MS, and possibly others, made cell phone calls to family and friends);
apparently died in collapse of building;
Richard Fern, Euro Brokers: Had just gotten in elevator on 84th floor when
plane hit; bounced around in elevator, was able to pry door open and went
right across to Stairway A, by which he was able successfully to evacuate;
Ron DiFrancesco, Euro Brokers: Survived crash on 84th floor; went w/ BC
group down to 81; on way to help Stanley Praimnath (w/ BC), RD, who was
using gym bag as mask, was overcome by smoke; went up to 91st floor to get
air; encountered people there; eventually decided to go back down and
escaped via stairway A; was just exiting concourse when collapse of tower 2
began, blown "across" Liberty St by fireball;
Stanley Praimnath, Fuji Bank: Decided to evacuate by elevator after 1st plane
hit; as exiting building through turn-styles was encouraged to go back by
building security (PA workers wearing blue blazers); group he was with
decided to go back but SP encouraged office temp to go home (she did);
upstairs, saw plane approaching office from 81st floor window; dove under
desk, survived crash; helped by BC (see above) and able to escape down
stairway A with him; (SP may have spoken directly with injured person on
44th floor)
Adam Arias, Euro Brokers: Evacuated after 1st plane (not sure whether
elevator or stairs); ran into 2 high school FF friends in lobby and stayed to
help them evacuate and direct civilians; AA and 1 FF died in collapse (other
FF survived)
Jose Merrero, Euro Broker fire warden: had escorted a number of people
down the stairs after 1st plane hit, including one overweight person; had gotten
down to about the 50* floor (BC surmises) and heard over the walkie-talkie
that David Vera was upstairs helping people (DV went up stairs at 81 with
heavy woman); decided to go up to help him;
MSN Hotmail - Message Page 2 of 8

....•-'"9/11 Personal
physically ...•-"' Privacy
exit the one you were in on a re-entry floor (which I believe you said-'"
were ..-••"'
every five floors) and walk across the floor to another? ...--"'

I'm on my way to DC today but will be back in the office tomorrow,


Best, ...-•"""
Madeleine ...--"'"

>From: "Brian Clark" |_


>To: "Madeleine Blot" <mblot@9-llcommission.gov>
>CC : <mblotl4@hotmail.com>
>Subject: RE: Brian Clark Interview
>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2 0 0 4 11:03:36 -0500
>
>Hi Madeleine ~~
>
>My revised copy is immediately below. I have also attached a Word. doc
>that shows my changes to your original transcript.
>
>I look forward to having a discussion about those "other issues." Let's
>talk about some of your other requests for interviews before I make
>suggestions .
>
>Enjoy your weekend.
>
>~~ Brian
>
> <?xml : namespace prefix = o ns =
>"urn: schemas-microsof t-com: of f ice : office" />
>
>INT BRIAN CLARK, 3-2-04, at 199 Water St

>• Euro Brokers located on 31st floor of 1 WTC at


time
>1993 bombing, scheduled to move that evening to 84th floor of 2 WTC;
>moved delayed by three weeks;
>
>• After '93, fire drills conducted every six months;
>approx 10 people per floor were designated fire wardens (BC was a fire
>warden on 84th floor for Euro Brokers) and given whistles, flashlights
>etc by building; Euro Brokers fire wardens were also given
>walkie-talkies, good for communication up to several blocks away, from
>their company; procedure for fire drill was for wardens to direct
people
>in their areas to the center of the floor, where a phone was located
for
>warden to call down to the Fire Command desk; wardens were never given
>uniform instructions on evacuation, e.g., not told specifically to
>evacuate up or down, but rather to await instructions specific to
>situation; after drill, wardens would meet and confer with PA security;
>
>• On Sept llth, Euro Brokers occupied entire 84th
>floor of 2 WTC;
>
>• Approx 250 employees were in the office at 8:46;
>
>• BC was in his office on the west wall near the
>southwest corner of building; when 1st plane hit;
>
>• Lights blinked and BC saw bright flame outside his
>window, which was burst of flame coming out of the south side of the

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>north tower; not entirely aware of what happened; thought there was an
>explosion above,
>
>• BC was a fire warden and thought it was good idea
>to start evacuating people in his area; after 3 or 4 minutes however,
BC
>himself did not consider leaving, did not feel great urgency because TV
>sets around the office quickly picked up coverage that the incident was
>only in the other tower;
>
>• Approx 200 of the 250 employees successfully
>evacuated; some took elevators, some took stairs;
>
>• At approx 8:55, strobe lights flashed, a siren
>sounded to get attention of building occupants, and a building
Announcement came over the PA system: "Your Attention Please. Building
>2 is secure. There is no need to evacuate building 2. If you are in
>the midst of evacuation, you may use the re-entry doors and the
>elevators to return to your floor." The message was then repeated in
>full; BC is certain that the man making the announcement was the Port
>Authority employee who conducted the regular fire-drills on their
floor;
>
>• As a result, approx ten people returned to the
84th
>floor; some, who were in the process of evacuating (e.g., on stairs)
>made decision to turn around, others were personally told to go back up
>by PA security in the lobby (see below);
>
>• Most people who remained on the 84th floor
migrated
>to windows on the north side of the building in the trading area facing
>the plaza (trading area occupied eastern side of the floor); from there
>saw debris and people fall from north tower; also had TV's there;
>
>• Shortly before 9:03, BC helped hysterical female
>co-worker to restroom on western side of building core and then
>proceeded to make a call from his office on the west side of the
>building; he then went to an open area near the middle of the west
wall,
>where he was standing when plane hit building 2;
>
>• When plane hit, room disintegrated; floor held,
but
>everything on ceiling came down, (tiles, lights, air conditioning
ducts,
>speakers, etc.); no flames or black smoke, just construction dust and
>only filtered daylight; then, building seemed to torque and move
>sideways to the west for approx 5 - 8 seconds, felt like building went
>approx 3 yds, stopped, and went back other way (much more sway than any
>wind storm);
>
>• BC, a fire warden, waved his flashlight around and
>quickly led himself and six other people in his area over fallen items
>etc to center of building (where 3 stairwells and elevators were); for
>no specific reason, he turned left (north) to Stairway A; did not check
>whether stairways B & C were passable, but there are no stories to EC's
>knowledge of anyone above the point of impact escaping down those
stairs
>(except possibly having switched to them from stairway A at a much
lower
>point);
>
>• At this point, BC knew it was a terrorist attack
>but did not know what had hit their building (south tower); knew that a

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>plane had hit tower 1 (from TV) but not clear what kind of plane or
>other details;

>• On the 81st floor, EC's group met a heavy woman


and
>a thin man; heavy woman was struggling, almost physically incapable of
>climbing stairs, and says, "you can't go down, stop, we've just come
off
>a floor in flames;" BC not sure what floor she came from but guesses,
>based on her capacity to climb and time, it was probably 79th; thin man
>does not say anything; this was approx 9:05 AM;

>• These 9 begin debate about whether to go up or


>down, BC shines flashlight on each of them; within about 15 seconds, BC
>hears cries for help coming from 81st floor; calls are from Stanley
>Praimnath of Fuji Bank;

>• BC grabs colleague, Ron DiFrancesco, and they


>manage to squeeze through space between fire escape door frame and
>damaged drywall to get onto 81st floor;

>• While doing so, BC sees 2 colleagues (Robert Coll,


>Kevin York) start to help heavy woman up stairs; another colleague,
>David Vera, also started up the stairs; because he was a fire warden
>too, Vera had a walkie-talkie;

>• On 81st floor, BC sees a lot more smoke but no


>flames (though occupant of 81st floor had seen flames from where he was
>standing near the south wall when the plane hit) ;

>• While attempting to reach cries for help w/ BC,


Ron
>DiFrancesco was overcome by smoke (RD had been using a gym bag as a
>filtering mask); there was a lot more smoke on 81st floor though still
>no flames; RD leaves BC, goes back to stairway and upstairs in search
of
>clearer air;

>• BC gets to Stanley, who is trapped behind wall of


>drywall (they break through and BC helps Stanley over) and they proceed
>back to Stairway A and then down stairs;

>• In many places, inner 2 (of 3) layers of drywall


>blown off, either fallen over railings or covering stairs, like a
slide;
>there is also a lot of water on stairs;

>• Flames were visible through cracks in wall at


>around the 78th floor, but could see no roaring inferno;

>• By 74th floor, it was pretty much normal


>conditions, maybe a little water, but fresh air and lights on;

>• On the 68th floor, BC and SP met another Euro


>Brokers fire warden, Jose Marrero, who was walking up; he had escorted
a
>number of people down the stairs, including one overweight person; had
>gotten down to about the 50th floor (BC surmises) and heard over the
>walkie-talkie that David Vera was upstairs helping people (DV went up
>stairs at 81 with heavy woman); he decided to go up to help him;

>• He was the only person BC and SP met in the


>stairway; there was no emergency personnel and they did not hear any
>further announcements;

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>• They proceeded down, checking transfer doors for


>heat before they entered;
>
>• Stopped on 44th floor to check the lower Sky Lobby
>(higher one on 78th floor); there was no one there but a South Asian
>security guard (about 65 or 70) at his post with a severely injured
>younger man (Caucasian, about 30, massive head wounds, not apparent how
>he was injured); SP broke briefly with man; BC spoke with security
guard
>who asked if they had phone, his were not working; says he'll stay with
>injured man but asks them to please call for assistance;
>
>• They proceeded down stairs and stopped on 31 (a
>re-entry floor) to look for a phone; found one working in an
Oppenheimer
>(later learned) conference room; BC called home to tell his family that
>he was alright; SP called wife's workplace to tell her the same; BC
then
>made call to 911 at 9:40 AM; reported to female operator that there was
>a severely injured man on the 44th floor, need to send a medic and a
>stretcher; operator says you're going to have to tell my supervisor,
>puts him on hold for at least 30, 40 seconds; another woman gets on,
>says 'yes sir can I help you?', BC reiterates request and reports where
>he himself is; 2nd operator says you're going to have to tell my
>supervisor and puts on hold for about another minute; when 3rd woman
>comes on, BC says, I'm only going to say this once, don't put me on
>hold, and repeats vital info, then says I'm not staying on the phone
any
>longer, I'm leaving now and hangs up;
>
>• BC and SP go back to stairs and continue
Uninterrupted; slow down around 15th floor, and eventually reach plaza
>level on north side of building; looked into plaza, like an
>archaeological dig;
>
>• Continued down escalator to concourse level, where
>they saw a female security official (most likely PA security, no
>firefighting, police gear); says they can't go through lobby, must go
>through concourse to Victoria's Secret, turn right and go out by Sam
>Goody;
>
>• Woman did not question them as to how to they got
>out (though they were the only people in the lobby at the time, Stanley
>was in tattered clothes, both were covered in dust, and it should have
>been apparent they came from high floor);
>
>• In concourse, there was random activity of
>firefighters, mostly getting themselves organized; they did not give BC
>and SP any directions, nor did they question them about escape route;
>
>• Exited concourse as directed and came out 4 WTC on
>Liberty (closer to Church); FF tells them, "if you're going to cross
>Liberty, you've got to go for it (referring to falling debris)"; BC
>asked if he should look up to determine appropriate time to go; FF says
>no, they should "just go for it"; BC looked up anyway and they ran
>across; got across safely;
>
>• Ran a half block to deli on Greenwich St, where
>given water and a tray of food;
>
>• Continued down Greenwich St, not densely
populated,
>not too many emergency personnel, but people were generally walking
away
>from scene so didn't need to be directed;

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>• Turned east to Trinity Place where saw a couple of


>ministers, who said short prayer and told them Trinity Church was open;
>
>• On Rector Street (south side of church), SP
>remarked that building could come down; BC started to say no, and just
>then first collapse began (series of explosions, different
>
>from floors just falling; glass burst out of windows, then top slid; BC
>thought
>
>it had just collapsed from above fire line)
>
>• Wave of dust came over church; ran to 42 Broadway
>where they stayed for approx 45 mins, then wandered towards east river;
>there BC somehow got separated from SP;
>
>• At approx 11:00 AM, as walking through haze near
>Pier 11 on South Street (not elevated FDR) BC heard bullhorn directing
>people to ferry to Jersey City;
>
>• Ferry left immediately as BC got on board; ferry
>went around Battery Park (southern tip of Manhattan) and up Hudson
>river (it wasn't until ferry emerged from haze that BC knew both towers
>had come down) ;
>
>• On ferry, mostly civilians; no injured people,
>mostly just business people trying to get away; got off ferry, called
>home, walked to Hoboken and was able to take NJ Transit train home
>(trains were delayed but running); was home by 1:15;

>OTHER STORIES:

>• Robert Coll, Euro Brokers: Was in process of


>evacuating (probably by stairs) when heard announcement and went back
up
>with a few people; he survived initial impact on 84th floor, began down
>stairway A with BC, but went up (helping heavy woman) and presumably
>died in collapse;
>
>• Michelle Scarpitta, Euro Brokers: Arrived in lobby
>15 minutes after first plane hit; not discouraged from entering
building
> (because she did), was in elevator on way up when second plane hit
>building; elevator got stuck on 12th floor (known because MS, and
>possibly others, made cell phone calls to family and friends);
>apparently died in collapse of building;
>
>• Richard Fern, Euro Brokers: Had just gotten in
>elevator on 84th floor when second plane hit; bounced around in
>elevator, doors did not close and went right to Stairway A, by which he
>was able successfully to evacuate;
>
>• Ron DiFrancesco, Euro Brokers: Survived crash on
>84th floor; went w/ BC group down to 81; on way to help Stanley
>Praimnath (w/ BC) , RD, who was using gym bag as filtering mask, was
>overcome by smoke; went up to 91st floor to get air; encountered people
>there; eventually decided to go back down and escaped via stairway A;
>was just exiting concourse near Sam Goody record store with John Kren
> (obese male, also an employee of Euro Brokers) when collapse of tower 2
>began, blown "across" Liberty St by fireball; Kren died in hospital two

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>weeks later.
>
>• Stanley Praimnath, Fuji Bank (now renamed Mizuho
>Bank) : Decided to evacuate by elevator after 1st plane hit; as exiting
>building through turn-styles was encouraged to go back by building
>security (PA workers wearing blue blazers); group he was with decided
to
>go back but SP encouraged office temp to go home (she did); upstairs,
>saw plane approaching office from 81st floor south window; dove under
>desk, survived crash; all other employees he ascended with died; helped
>by BC (see above) and able to escape down stairway A with him; (SP may
>have spoken directly with injured person on 44th floor)
>
>• Adam Arias, Euro Brokers: Evacuated after 1st
>plane (not sure whether elevator or stairs) ; ran into 2 high school FF
>friends in lobby and stayed to help them evacuate and direct civilians;
>AA and 1 FF died in collapse (other FF survived)
>
>• Jose Marrero, Euro Brokers fire warden: had
>escorted a number of people down the stairs after 1st plane hit,
>including one overweight person; had gotten down to about the 50th
floor
>(BC surmises) and heard over the walkie-talkie that David Vera was
>upstairs helping people (DV went up stairs at 81 with heavy woman) ;
>decided to go up to help him;

> ----- Original Message -----


>From: Madeleine Blot [mailto:mblot@9-llcommission.gov]
>Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 5:27 PM
>To : Brian Clark
>Subject: RE: Brian Clark Interview

>Dear Brian,

>Thank you for the website, it's very useful to have. Below are my
notes
>from our meeting on Tuesday; they remain in note form because they will
>not be written up as a discrete interview but rather used for
reference .
>Please review them to determine if the facts are correct.

>It would be extremely helpful to meet or speak with the other survivors
>you mentioned (Ron DiFrancesco, Richard Fern, Stanley Praimnath) about
>the parts of their stories that do not overlap with yours. It would
>also be helpful to speak with any people who received phone call and/or
>other communications from your colleagues who died. If you can give me
>contact information for these people, we will be in touch with them
>directly to explain our purpose and request interviews. However, we do
>not want to bother family members unless they have actual information
>(e.g., actually spoke with victims) . I believe you also mentioned a
>colleague who died on his way out of the building, but for some reason,
>I don't have his name. I'd also be interested in speaking briefly with
>one or two of your colleagues who evacuated before the plane hit.

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/9/11
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>Perhaps I could schedule a series of meeting at your o f f i c e at some


>point .

>Thank you again wi-th all your help on this. If you respond to this
>email tomorrow, please send a copy to my personal email address (
| | as I will be working from home tomorrow. I also
>have some information for you about the other issue we discussed which
I
>will call you to discuss.

>Regards,
>
>Madeleine

>The contents of this message are intended solely for the addressee (s)
>and may contain information which is confidential or proprietary. If
you
>are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender immediately by
>reply e-mail and delete this message and any attachments without
>retaining a copy. Because e-mail can be altered electronically, the
>integrity of this message cannot be guaranteed.

>« SeptllCommissionInterview20040302.doc »

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INT BRIAN CLARK, 3-2-04, at 199 Water St

• Euro Brokers located on 31st floor of 1 WTC at time 1993 bombing,


scheduled to move that evening to 84th floor of 2 WTC; moved delayed by a
couple ofthree weeks;
• After '93, fire drills conducted every six months; approx 10 people per floor
were designated fire wardens (BC was a fire warden on 84th floor for Euro
Brokers) and given whistles, flashlights etc by building; Euro Brokers fire
wardens were also given walkie-talkies, good for communication up to several
blocks away, from their company; procedure for fire drill was for wardens to
direct people in their areas to the center of the floor, where a phone was
located for warden to call down to.the Fire Command desk; wardens were
never given uniform instructions on evacuation, e.g., not told specifically to
evacuate up or down, but rather to await instructions specific to situation; after
drill, wardens would meet and confer with PA security;
• On Sept 11th, Euro Brokers occupied entire 84th floor of 2 WTC;
• Approx 250 employees were in the office at 8:46;
• BC was in his office .on.the. west wall near the southeastwest corner of
building; when 1st plane hit;
• Lights blinked and BC saw bright flame outside his window, which was burst
of flame coming out of the south side of the north tower; not entirely aware of
what happened; thought there was an explosion above,
• BC was a fire warden and thought it was good idea to start evacuating people
in his area; after.3..or.4 minutes.howeverA.BC himself did not consider leaving,
did not feel great urgency because TV sets around the office quickly picked
up. coverage thatthe.jnddent.was.Qnly .in the.other tower;
• Approx 200 of the 250 employees successfully evacuated; some took
elevators, some took stairs;
• At approx 8:55, strobe lights flashed, a siren sounded to get attention of
building occupants, and a building announcement came over the PA system:
"Your Attention Please. Building 2 is secure. There is no need to evacuate
building 2. If you are in the midst of evacuation, you may use the re-entry
doors and the elevators to return to your floor." The message was then
repeated in fUll;.BC.is.certain that.the man
Port Authority employee who conducted the regular fire-drills on their floor;
— --*<• jr-.-r^.j ^ —,- 0... ... . .. ,T

• As a result, approx ten people returned to the 84th floor; some, who were in
the process of evacuating (e.g., on stairs) made decision to turn around, others
were personally told to go back up by PA security in the lobby (see below); it
i&-B€-s-feelief-that--enlyone-of-the-people-told--t-o-r-etufn-to offices-at--of above
impact floors survived;
• Most people who remained on the 84th floor migrated to windows on the
northeast side of the building in the trading area facing the plaza (trading area
occupied eastern side of the floor); from there saw debris and people fall from
north tower; also had TV's there;
Shortly before 9:03, BC helped hysterical female co-worker to restroom on
western side of building core and then proceeded to make a call from aa-his
office on the northern-west side of the building; he was herethen went to an
open area near the middle of the west wall, where he was standing when plane
hit building 2;
When plane hit, room disintegrated; floor held, but everything on ceiling
came down, (tiles, lights, air conditioning ducts, speakers., etcj; no flames or
black smoke, just construction dust and instant darknessQnly.filtered.daylight;
then, building seemed to torque and move sideways to the west for approx 5 -
8 seconds, fej.t .like building. went approx 4-3..yds, stopped, and went back
other way (much more sway than any wind storm);
BC, a fire warden, waved his flashlight around and get--7 quickly led himself
an.d.six other people in his area; led them over fallen items etc to center of
building (where 3 stairwells and elevators were); for no specific reason, he
turned left (north) to then led--t-hem-4ewn closest -stairway; happened--te-be
Stairway A; did not check whether stairways B & C were passable, but there
are no stories to EC's knowledge of anyone above the point of impact
escaping down those stairs (except possibly having switched to them from
stairrway A at a much lower point);
At this point, BC knew it was a terrorist attack but did not know what had hit
their building (south tower); knew that a plane had hit tower 1 (from TV) but
not clear what kind of plane or other details;
On the 81st floor, EC's group met a heavy woman and a thin man; heavy
woman was struggling, almost. physically incapable of climbing stairs, and
says, "you can't go down, stop, we've just come off a floor in flames;" BC not
sure what floor she came from but guesses, based on her capacity to climb and
time, it was probably 79th; thin man does not say anything; this was approx
9:05 AM;
These 9 begin debate about whether to go up or down, BC shines flashlight
on each of them; within about 15 seconds, they hearBChears cries for help
coming from 81st floor; calls are from Stanley Praimnath of Fuji Bank;
BC grabs colleague, Ron DiFrancesco, and they manage to squeeze through
space between fire escape door frame and faHeH-damaged drywall to get onto

While doing so, BC sees 2 colleagues (Robert Coll, ?-Kevin.York) start to


help heavy woman up stairs; another colleague, David Vera, also started up
the stairs; because he was a fire warden too, he-Vera had a walkie-talkie;
On 81st floor, BC sees a lot more smoke but no flames (though occupant of
81st floor saw-had seen flames from where he was srttmgstanding near the
south wall when the plane hit);
While attempting to reach cries for help w/ BC, Ron DiFrancesco was
overcome by smoke (RD had been using a gym bag as a filtering mask); there
was a lot more smoke on 81st floor though still no flames; RD leaves BC. goes
back to:. stairway. and upstairs in search of clearer air;
T

BC gets to Stanley, who is trapped behind wall of drywall (they break


through and BC helps Stanley over) and they proceed back .to..Stairway. A. and
then down stairs;
In many places, eater-inner 2 (of 3) layers of drywall blown off, either fallen
over railings or covering stairs, like a slide; there is also a lot of water on
stairs;
Flames were visible through cracks in wall at around the 78th floor, but could
see no roaring inferno;
By 74th floor, it was pretty much normal conditions, maybe a little water, but
fresh air and lights on;
On the 68th floor, BC and SP met another Euro Brokers fire warden, Josee
MeffefeMarrero, who was walking up; he had escorted a number of people
down the stairs, including one overweight person; had gotten down to about
the 50th floor (BC surmises) and heard over the walkie-talkie that David Vera
was upstairs helping people (DV went up stairs at 81 with heavy woman); he
decided to go up to help him;
He was the only person BC and SP met in the stairway; there was no
emergency personnel and they did not hear any further announcements;
They proceeded down, checking transfer doors for heat before they entered;
Stopped on 44th floor to check the lower Sky Lobby (higher one on 78th
floor); there was no one there but a South Asian security guard (about 65 or
70) at his post with a severely injured younger man (caucasianCaucasian,
about 30, massive head wounds, not apparent how he was injured); SP broke
briefly with man; BC spoke with security guard whpj-he asked if they had
phone, his were not working; says he'll stay with injured man but asks them to
please call for assistance;
They proceeded down stairs and stopped on 31 (a re-entry floor) to look for a
phone; found one working in an Oppenheimer (later learned) conference
room; BC called home to tell his family that he was alright; SP called wife's
workplace tQ.tell..her the.same;.BC then.niade call to 911 at 9:40 AM; reported
to female operator that there was a severely injured man on the 44th floor,
need to send a medic and a stretcher; operator says you're going to have to tell
my supervisor, puts him on hold for at least 30, 40 seconds; another woman
gets on, says 'yes sir can I help you?', BC reiterates request and reports where
he himself is; 2nd operator says you're going to have to tell my supervisor and
puts on hold for about another minute; when 3rd woman comes on, BC says,
I'm only going to say this once, don't put me on hold, and repeats vital info,
then says I'm not staying on the phone any longer, I'm leaving now and hangs
up;
BC and SP go back to stairs and continue uninterrupted; slow down around
15* floor, and eventually reach plaza level on north side of building; looked
into plaza, like an archaelogical dig;
Continued down escalator to concourse level, where they saw a female
security official (most likely PA security, no firefighting, police gear); says
they can't go through lobby, must go through concourse to Victoria's Secret,
turn right and go out by Sam Goody;
• Woman did not question them as to how to they got out (though they were
the only people in the lobby at the time, Stanley was in.tattered
clothes., ifljuredy both were covered in dust, and it should have been apparent
they came from high floor);
• In concourse, there was random activity of firefighters, mostly getting
themselves organized; they did not give BC and SP any directions, nor did
they question them about escape route;
• Exited concourse as directed and came out 4 WTC on Liberty (closer to
Church); FF tells them, "if you're going to cross Liberty, you've got to go for
it (referring to falling debris)"; BC asked if he should look up to determine
appropriate time to go; FF says no, they should "just go for it"; BC looked up
anyway and they ran across; got across safely;
• Ran Hrte-a. half block.to. deli on Greenwich St, where given water and a tray
of food; many people at the deli looking for water etc;
• Continued down Greenwich St, not densely populated, not too many
emergency personnel, but people were generally walking away from scene so
didn't need to be directed;
• GentJKues-4owrt-OBTurned east to Trinity Place; where saw a couple of
ministers, who said short prayer and told them Trinity Church was open;
• Right otttsideOn Rector Street (south side of church), SP remarked that
building could come down; BC started
to say no, and just then first collapse began (series of explosions, different
from floors just falling; glass burst out of windows, then top slid; BC thought
it had just collapsed from above fire line)
• Wave of dust came over church; ran to 42 Broadway where they stayed for
approx 45 mins, then wandered towards east river; there BC somehow got
separated from SP;
• At approx 10:451JL;00 AM, as walking through haze near Pier 11 on South
StreetFDR (not elevated FDR) BC heard bullhorn directing people to ferry to
Jersey City;
• Ferry left immediately as BC got on board; ferry went around Battery Park
(southern tip of Manhattan) and up Hudson river-(it wasn't until approx this
tHaefeny.emerged.from..haze that BC knew both towers had come down);
• On ferry, mostly civilians; no injured people, mostly just business people
trying to get away; got off ferry, called home, walked to Hoboken and was
able to take NJ Transit train [NJ transit?] home (trains were delayed but
running); was home by 1:15;

OTHER STORIES:

• Robert Coll, Euro Brokers: Was in process of evacuating (probably by stairs)


when heard announcement and went back up with a few people; he survived
initial impact on 84th floor, began down stairway A with BC, but went up
(helping heavy woman) and presumably died in collapse;
Michelle Scarpitta, Euro Brokers: Arrived in lobby at-15 ninutes after first
plane hit; not discouraged from entering building (because she did), was it
elevator on way up when second plane hit building; elevator got stuck on 12th
floor (known because MS, and possibly others, made cell phone calls to
family and friends); apparently died in collapse of building; j- Li\ & o\j\
Richard Fern, Euro Brokers: Had just gotten in elevator on 84 floor when
second plane hit; bounced around in elevator, was able to pry door opcndoors
did not close and went right aer-oss-to Stairway A, by which he was able
successfully to evacuate; (L^} -|03 '^"JO
Ron DiFrancesco, Euro Brokers: Survived crash on 84th floor; went w/ BC
group down to 81; on way to help Stanley Praimnath (w/ BC), RD, who was
using gym bag as filtering.mask, was overcome by smoke; went up to 91st
floor to get air; encountered people there; eventually decided to go back down
and escaped via stairway A; was just exiting concourse near Sam Goody
record, store, with.John. Kren (obese.malex ajso .an
when collapse of tower 2 began, blown "across" Liberty St by fireball; Kren
died in hospital two weeks later. ^ ,\ " ^Qft
Stanley Praimnath, Fuji Bank..(no.w..re^med.Mizuho.Bank): Decided to
evacuate by elevator after 1st plane hit; as exiting building through turn-styles
was encouraged to go back by building security (PA workers wearing blue
blazers); group he was with decided to go back but SP encouraged office temp
to go home (she did); upstairs, saw plane approaching office from 81st floor
south.window; dove under desk, survived crash; all. other.employees.he
ascended with died; helped by BC (see above) and able to escape down
stairway A with him; (SP may have spoken directly with injured person on
44th floor)
Adam Arias, Euro Brokers: Evacuated after 1st plane (not sure whether
elevator or stairs); ran into 2 high school FF friends in lobby and stayed to
help them evacuate^and direct civilians; AA and 1 FF died in collapse (other
FF survived) £ f| ^ ou\ P J
Jos.ee MerreroMarrero, Euro Brokers fire warden: had escorted a number of
people down the stairs after 1st plane hit, including one overweight person;
had gotten down to about the 50th floor (BC surmises) and heard over the
walkie-talkie that David Vera was upstairs helping people (DV went up stairs
at 81 with heavy woman); decided to go up to help him;

?A r

30 f ? 3 J t , A?r(e?> \o\7f
Brian Clark, 3-2-04

2/26/1993, scheduled to move on eve of bombing to 84th


• Drills, every six months, not evacuation, 10 people who were marshals on the
floor, communications staff with walkie-talkie, good for several blocks,
walkie-talkies supplied by company, whistles, flashlights supplied by PA with
that; told not necessarily always to go down, floor warden calls down and
finds out what should we do and direct staff;
• At 8:46, lights buzz, bright flame outside window which came out of south
side of north tower, thought there was an explosion above; thinking it was
there, above, got people out,
• Bulk of people who didn't go were on trading floor, NE windows, watching
north tower;
• That morning, at 8:46 about 250 people, about 200 left, split between elevator
and stairway, and got out. Some came back. 50 on floor when 2nd plane hit.
Because he was fire warden he stayed, not great urgency to leave, event was
there, many people just staring, would not go to window, suggesting that
people leave. About 10 came back up or in the middle of evacuation.
• 1 person, Bobby Coll, he was in the process of evacuating, probably stairs,
came back up with a few people. Probably all 10.
• Michelle Scarpitta, got in express elevators at 902, got stuck on 12th floor,
with cellphone, don't know number of people, calling family and friends, and
stuck until building collapsed, told by people, not stopped at least, to go in.
• 8:55: strobe lights flashed, siren to get attention, your attention please,
building 2 is secure, there is no need to evacuate building 2, if you are in the
midst of evacuation, you may use the reentry doors and the elevators to return
to your floor. Full message then repeated. Spoke to at least one person who
came up with others, about 3 -5. Stanley Praimnath (Fuji) and co-workers
(Fuji had 79 -82), he had taken, 81st to 78th, down to ground, leaving through
turnstyles and told by building security, gray flannels and blue blazers, and
peer pressure go back in elevator, told temp to go home; all on different
floors, 79 -82, thinks Stanley is only survivor.
• Richard Fern; was getting on elevator on 84th floor at 9:03 and just made it
out. Took Stairway, did the same thing Clark did.
• Plane hits at 9:03: room disintegrated, floor held, everything on ceiling came
down, air conditioning ducts, speakers, building sort of torqued; double
explosion, instant darkness, no flames, no black smoke, just chalky
construction dust; 5 - 8 seconds, feeling like going over, one way; more than
any wind storm, stopped and came back, approx 1 yard;
• Richie fern got bounced around in elevator, didn't feel any of this; got out,
went to stairway A, right across, and went down
• Waved flashlight around, got 7 people; jumping over things; got to center
core.
• Knew it was terrorism but didn't know what had hit their buildings and where
and why (only knew plane hit other building, but not what kidn of plane)
Happened to turn left to stairway A; no known stories about people getting
down B or C but no reason to think they were blocked.
7 go down to 81st floor; Bobby Coll was one of them; Kevin York, David
Vera, Ron DiFrancesco, 2 other associates.
On 81st floor, met heavyset woman in tent dress, struggling, physically
incapable of climbing with a thin man, he never said a word
About 15 seconds, she says you can't go down, stop, we've just come off a
floor in flames, don't know what floor she came from, must have been on
about 79th, (this was probably at about 9:05)
Debate with flashlight, in shock, thought it was unsafe to go down,
Hears calls for help; grabs Ron; fire escape door on 81; got between door and
drywall, Coll and York help woman, David Vera with walkie-talkie did
pirouette and starting up;
Halfway to Stanley, overcome by smoke,
On 81st floor, just smoke; but a lot more (Stanley did see flames)
Ron leaves and go upstairs because he couldn't breathe (with gym bag)
Around BC, was bubble of fresh air;
Looking down stairs, saw smoke coming up, going down as far as I can go,
did not check out other stairways, no reason to,
Stanley and BC start going down; in many places layers of drywall had blown
in (2 layers blown in and innermost layer held) some drywall laying across
railing or laying flat on stairs like slide.
From 81 to 74, then get clear air, around 78, walls were cracked and could see
flames through the wall; not roaring inferno; never heard anything over the
PA,
Water flowing down,
At 74, there was fresh air, normal conditions, maybe some water there;
On 68th floor: met the only person they saw Jose Marrero, Euro Brokers, one
of our fire marshals, he was walking up; had escorted a number of people
down, including one overweight person, (he's a mess); heard on walkie-talkie
David Vera (pirouette up from 81) helping people, going up to help him;
(gotten to about 50th)
Have to go through doors, (checked for heat)
No FF or police walking up;
On 44th floor, SKY LOBBY, went into there, no one except one security
guard; about 65, 70, Indian or Pakistani, at his post, he said "do you have a
telephone" my phones don't work, but I'll stay with this guy, 30 year old
caucausin, massive head wounds, Stanley talked to guy, maybe tell my family
I love them, security gaurds asks for assistance,
Down to 31, let's try phones, Oppenheimer (leraned later), it was a re-entry
floor, which are every 5 floors, got into conference room, called wife again;
THIS WAS 9:40; Stanely called his wife but she wasn't there; BC CALLS
911 to report man on 44th floor, got through to a woman; reports this
specifically, they need a medic and a stretcher; she said hold on a sec, you're
going to have to tell my supervisor, waited on hold, probably 30, 40 seconds,
(seemed much longer), yes sir, can I help you, repeated story and where he
himself is, she says you're going to have to tell my superior, my boss, hold for
another minute, then a 3rd woman came on, I'm only going to say this once,
don't me on hold, repeats vital info; and I'm not staying on phone any longer,
I'm leaving now, last person never answers;
Back to stairs, 1 continuous descent, uninterrupted.
About 15th floor, said to Stanley, let's slow down a bit;
Get to plaza level, raised, outdoors, walked north, looked like archaeological
site, goes back to escalator on north side of building down to concourse leve,
saw either PA, police, not in any gear, but in authority, says can't go through
lobby, must go thorugh concourse, to Victoria's secret, turn right and go out
by sam Goody, come out on Liberty
Woman did not ask anything about how had gotten out.
On path out, random activity of FF's, getting themselves organized, no one
asked ever how they got out
As coming out, runs into a FF, if you're going to cross Liberty, you've got to
go for it, there's an overhang on building 4; BC asks if he should look up, he
says no, you should go for it. So, BC looked up and said let's go.
Ran across Liberty, ran down Greenwich Street, to little deli and stopped there
(see map), everyone there is looking, ask for water, they got water, came out
w/ breakfast tray,
Continued down Greenwich to Trinity Place then down Trinity, saw a couple
of ministers, Stanley broke down, this man saved my life; BC says to Stanley,
said maybe you saved mine; one minister has 15 sec prayer, other minister
said Trinity Church is open, walked to Rector up hill and almost in Trinity
Church, right by Alex Hamilton grave, Stanley stopped, grabbed onto railing,
you know I think that tower could come down, BC starts saying no, and then
heard explosions, (Ron was just gftttirig o\it at that time; got blown by fireball
inside concourse acrossjvibjsaty); explosions, different from floors falling,
Right up at lopljouldsee glass, glass was bursting out of windows; like
sparkly confetti, then it slid. Thought that just down to fire line had collapsed,
not whole building, then wave of dust, coming over church, ran to 42
Broadway, somewhere south on Broadway, in there 45 mins, wandered over
to East River, got separated somehow (had gotten business card);
10:45, As walking through haze, heard bullhorn, near Pier 11 on FDR, not
elevated, some people climbing below, went around battery park and up river,
that's when realized that both towers had come down,
On ferry, to Jersey City, 1 NY Plaza, no injured people, everyone pretty much
ok.
On walk to church, not densely populated, people generally leaving, no one
telling you go one way or other, no real emergency personnel.
Got off ferry, called home, 11:15, had not answered call, walked to Hoboken,
got there about 35 mins later, announced that 11:35 train was delayed, home
at 1:15,
Used to be on 31st floor of 1: in 1993: took 2 hours, had thought there was an
explosion in the vista hotel.
elevators 2 express on 78th and 44
Adam Arias, accounting dept at Euro Brokers, got down probably using
elevators, an assumption, could have taken stairs, ran into 2 highschool
buddies who were firemen and stayed to help them, they died in the collapse;
Where was he when 1st plane hit?
How many at Euro then? Only he and other person got out?
What was announcement?
Did he go down, think about it? Did other Euro Broker people go down? Why?
Did he know what happened when plane hit? l^ndY f |ocx pl<s/^
He was fire warden? What about drills? How often? How well? Did people seem to be
complying? Take them seriously?
Did company have a plan?
Could you hear PA system on 84? How far up? Could you continue to hear?
Had they been told which stairwell to try?
Just happened to be near A? Did he know it was A?
4 people? Who were they?
What time was this?
What was debate about on 81? How many people? What was their state of mind? Does
he know how many went down/ up? Did he consider the roof? Was that what motivated
them, or did they just think they couldn't get down? Did he know they had policy not to
do that? Was he there in 1993? Others?
Does he have any info re other staircases? Definitely impassable?
Did he ever call command desk or 911 or anyone?
Did anyone around him? What kind of info?
After helping other person, conditions? why did he then go down the stairs? Would he
have made other decision otherwise?
Did he hear any more announcements? 9:20 announcement? Repeated evac
announcements?
What was evacuation like? What time start? End?
After major crowd? What about Sky Lobby people? Same people? Before or after?
Rescue people on way down?
Other civilians? Trapped?
Going down with other people?
What were conditions like? Fires, smoke? Any particularly bad floors?
What time did he get down?
What was it like in lobby? Who was there? Chaotic?
Were there still ESU, FF's going up?
Any more announcements?
Was he questioned by anyone? If so, did they pass this on?
Where did get down? Where did he exit?
Where was he directed?
Walkout? Hospital? Injured?
Where was he when south tower collapsed? North?
Know anyone who has info re staircases etc?
Other people at Euro?
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

Re: Euro Brokers employees

Type of event:

Date: July 27, 2004

Special access: None

Prepared by: Madeleine Blot

Team: 8b

Location: N/A

Participants - Non Commission: N/A

Participants - Commission staff: N/A

Brian Clark provided staff with the attached list of names of the 61 Euro Brokers
employees who died in the September 11 attacks, many of whom performed heroic
actions that day. We do not know the stories of all 61 employees. We do know that Jose
Marrerro ascended from a point below the impact up to the 84th floor to assist injured
colleagues. Robert Coll, Kevin York and David Vera reversed their descent down the
open stairwell (A) to assist a struggling woman up the stairs who did not feel safe
descending. Among those who survived the day, heroic tasks were accomplished as well.
Brian Clark exited the open stairwell (A) on the 81st floor to achieve a miraculous rescue
of Stanley Praimnath. (See Brian Clark interview, Mar. 2, 2004 & Stanley Praimnath
interview Mar. 16, 2004). Euro Brokers was located on the 84th floor of the South Tower.
Employees killed as a result of the terrorist Euro Brokers Inc.
attack on the World Trade Center 84th Floor
September 11, 2001 Two World Trade Center
New York, NY 10048

First Last Name


Patrick Aranyps
Adam Arias
Brett
Howard Boulton
IlPauII Cascio
Steven Chucknick
Kevin
"Robert] Coll
Jack Connolly
Kevin Corinors
Michael
.
Stephen 5°.rf.
Flounders
Kevin
Peter
17 Paul
18" Elizabeth Holmes
19"
___ Charles Houston
JViljiam]" Hunt
21 Michael Iken
"22"" Thomas
"23 Koecheler
24 John Kren
25"" Richard Lynch
"26" Noel Maerz
27 Malone
28 Edward Mardovich
29 Jose Marrero
1^' Mathesen
IT Scott McGovern
32 ^Patrick McGuire
'"33""
Ann McHugh
I?" Denis McHugh
If Raymond Metz
"36 JDomenick Mircovich
37" Justin Mojisani
38 Mario Nardone
39" Peter Ortale
40 Manish pate]
Employees killed as a result of the terrorist Euro Brokers Inc.
attack on the World Trade Center 84th Floor
September 11, 2001 Two World Trade Center
New York, NY 10048

Count FirstName Last Name 1


41 Susan Pollio |
42 Alexey Razuvaev
43 Jonathan Ryan
44 Hugo Sanay-Penafiel
45 Michelle Scarpitta
46 Randolph Scott
47 Howard Selwyn
48 John Sherry
49 Frank Skidmore
50 Daniel Smith
51 Thomas Sparacio
52 George Spencer
53 Michael Stabile
54 Eric Steen
55 Michael Taddonio
56 Keiichiro Takahashi
57 Clive "Ian" Thompson
58 Lance Tumulty
59 David Vera
60 Kevin York
61 Harrington Young
COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

Re: Brian Clark

Type of event: Interview

Date: March 2, 2004

Special Access: None

Prepared by: Madeleine Blot

Team: 8b

Location: Euro Brokers offices, 199 Water Street

Participants - Non Commission: Brian Clark, Euro Brokers, Evacuated from 84th floor of
2 WTC (South Tower)

Participants - Commission: Madeleine Blot

As of September 11, 2001, Brian Clark worked for Euro Brokers on the 84th floor
of 2 WTC (the South Tower). Euro Brokers occupied the entire 84th floor of the tower.
At the time the North tower was struck by AA Flight 11, approximately 250 Euro
Brokers employees were on the 84th floor of the South Tower.

Mr. Clark was in his office on the west wall, near the southwest corner of the
building. When the plane struck the building, the lights blinked and Mr. Clark saw bright
flames outside his window, caused by the burst of flame coming out of the south side of
the North Tower. Mr. Clark was not entirely aware of what had occurred and surmised
that there may have been an explosion above him in his building.

Mr. Clark was a fire warden for his floor and thought it would be a good idea to
start evacuating people in his area1. He began to do so but, after 3 or 4 minutes, he did
not consider leaving himself, as TV sets around the office had picked up coverage
showing that the incident had occurred in the other tower. Knowing this, Mr. Clark did
not feel great urgency to leave.

Approximately 200 of the 250 Euro Brokers employee in the office successfully
evacuated the building. Some took the elevators and others took the stairs. At
approximately 8:55 a.m., the strobe lights flashed, a siren sounded to get attention of
building occupants, and a building announcement came over the public address system.

1 There is no evidence that they attempted to use the floor warden phone to call the PCS for instructions
COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED
Mr. Clark recalls the precise wording of the announcement as the following: Your
Attention Please. Building 2 is secure. There is no need to evacuate building 2. If you
are in the midst of evacuation, you may use the re-entry doors and the elevators to return
to your floor. The message was then repeated in full. Mr. Clark recognized the voice of
the person making the announcement as the deputy fire safety director who regularly
conducted fire drills on his floor".

As a result of the announcement, approximately ten Euro Brokers employees—


who had been in the process of evacuating—reversed their course and returned to the 84th
floor. Others were personally instructed to go back upstairs by "PA security in the
lobby."'" (See MFR Int Stanely Praimnath)

Most people who remained on the 84th floor migrated to windows on the northeast
side of the building in the trading area which faced the plaza. The trading area occupied
eastern side of the floor. From there, debris and people could be seen falling from the
North Tower. There were also TV's in this location broadcasting coverage of the events.

Shortly before 9:03 a.m., Mr. Clark helped a female co-worker—who was
hysterical—to the restroom on the western side of the floor. He then proceeded to his
office on the west side of the building to make a call. After that, he proceeded to an open
area near the middle of the west wall. He was standing in this location when the South
Tower was struck by UA Flight 175.

When the plane hit the building, the room disintegrated. Although the floor held,
everything on the ceiling, including tiles, lights, air conditioning ducts, and speakers,
came down. There were no flames or black smoke, but there was construction dust and
the daylight from the windows became filtered. The building seemed to torque and move
sideways for approximately 5 to 8 seconds. Mr. Clark's impression was that the building
moved approximately 3 yards to the west before returning back the other way. Mr. Clark
is certain that the sway was much greater than in any prior wind storm.

Because Mr. Clark was a fire warden, he had a flashlight. He waved the flashlight
around and promptly led himself and 6 other people in his area over fallen items to the
center of floor, where the building's 3 stairwells and elevators were located. For no
specific reason1", he turned left (north) to stairwell A. He did not check whether
stairways B & C were passable, but does not know of anyone who escaped by those

" The DFSDs in the South Tower on the morning of the Sept 11th were Philip Hayes and Kevin Horan; Mr.
Clark has identified the person who made the announcement as the DFSD who regularly conducted fire
drills on his floor, who he confirmed, in response to staffs questions, was a man in his 60's. This fits the
description of Mr Hayes, who is generally believed to have made the announcement, and who perished in
the tower's collapse. Kevin Horan has been unavailable for questioning, see MFR re Kevin Horan
111 As of Sept 11, 2001, the PA no longer controlled the WTC. Deputy fire safety directors responsible for
making public address announcement were employed by an outside company, OCS security, contracted to
SPI and, before the transfer of control, to the PA
lv Mr. Clark later remarked during a videotaped interview conducted by commission staff that he may have
turned in the direction he did, towards the elevators, because that was the way home.
COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED
stairwells, except possibly people who transferred to them from stairway A at a much
lower pointv.

At this point, Mr. Clark knew that it was a terrorist attack which was occurring
but did not know what had hit his building. He had learned from television coverage that
a plane that had the North Tower, but he was not clear on what kind of plane it was and
was not aware of any other details.

On the 81st floor level of stairwell A, Mr. Clark's group encountered a heavyset
woman and a relatively thin man. The woman was struggling and appeared to be almost
physically incapable of climbing the stairs. She stated to Mr. Clark's group: "You can't
go down. Stop. We've just come off a floor in flames." Mr. Clark is not sure what floor
these civilians had ascended from but, based on the time and the heavyset woman's
capacity to climb, he guesses that it was approximately the 79th floor. This encounter
took place at approximately 9:05 a.m. The thin man did not say a word.

Mr. Clark and the other eight people in the stairwell began a debate about whether
to go up or down, as Mr. Clark shone his flashlight on each of them. Within about 15
seconds, Mr. Clark heard cries for help coming from 81st floor. He grabbed his
colleague, Ron DiFrancesco,vl and they managed to squeeze through the space between
the stairwell doorframe and damaged drywall to get onto the 81st floor. While doing so,
Mr. Clark noticed two of his colleagues, Robert Coll and Kevin York, start to help the
heavyset woman up the stairs. Another colleague, David Vera, also began to ascend the
stairs. Mr. Vera had a company walkie-talkie.

On the 81st floor, Mr. Clark observed a lot more smoke but no flames. He heard,
however, that the person whose cries he was following had seen flames near the south
wall of the 81st floor when the building was hit. While Mr. Clark and Mr. DiFrancesco
were attempting to reach this person, Mr. DiFrancesco—who had been using a gym bag
as a filtering mask—was overcome by smoke. He left the floor and re-entered stairwell
A which he ascended in search of clearer air.

Mr. Clark eventually reached the person whose cries he was following, but the
man—Stanley Praimnath—was trapped behind a sheetrock wall. Mr. Clark managed to
help Mr. Praimnath over the wall (See MFR Int Stanley Praimnath) and lead him to
stairwell A where they began to descend. Mr. Clark told staff later, in a videotaped
interview, that he did not see any obstruction (i.e., fire) below him in stairwell A. His
instinct was to proceed down (rather than up) unless and until he was physically stopped
from doing so.

v Staff has determined that Richard Fern, who also evacuated from the 84th floor after the South Tower was
struck, switched from the A stairwell to the B stairwell at the 76th floor and continued down from there
V1 Mr. DiFrancesco, who was also interviewed by staff, does not recall exiting the stairwell with Mr. Clark
before he continued to ascend stairwell A.
COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED
Near the 81st floor, the 2 (of 3) layers of drywall closest to the stairs had blown off
in many places. In some cases, it had fallen over the railings and, in others, it covered the
stairs like a slide. There was also a lot of water on the stairs. Flames were visible
through cracks in the wall at approximately the 78th floor, but Mr. Clark did not observe
any roaring inferno. By the 74l floor, conditions in the stairwell were essentially normal.
There may have been a little water, but the air was fresh and the lights were on.

On the 68th floor, Mr. Clark and Mr. Praimnath encountered a co-worker of Mr.
Clark, named Jose Merrero. Mr. Merrero had been escorting a number of people from
Euro Brokers down the stairs when the South Tower was struck. After hearing on the
company walkie-talkie that his David Vera was on the 84th floor helping co-workers, he
reversed his course in order to provide additional assistance. He was on his way up the
stairs, climbing to the impact zone, when Mr. Clark and Mr. Praimnath met him. Mr.
Clark surmises that he was coming from approximately the 50th floor.

Mr. Merrero was the only person Mr. Clark and Mr. Praimnath met in the
stairwell. They did not encounter any emergency responders and did not hear any further
p.a. announcements. They proceeded down, checking transfer doors for heat before
passing through them. On the 44th floor, they stopped to check the lower sky lobby. It
was virtually empty, except for a South Asian security guard (approx 65 or 70 yrs old) at
his post with a severely injured younger Caucasian man (approx 30 yrs old). The
younger man had massive head wounds, though it was not apparent how he had gotten
them. Mr. Praimnath spoke briefly with the injured man, while Mr. Clark spoke with the
security guard. The security guard asked if they had a phone because his was not
working. He said he was going to stay with the injured man but asked that they please
call for assistance when they could find a phone.

They proceeded down the stairs and stopped on the 31st floor, which was a re-
entry floor, to look for a phone. They found a working phone in a conference room
which they later learned belonged to Oppenheimer. Mr. Clark called home to tell his
family he was all right. Mr. Praimnath also called his wife's office but she was not there.
Mr. Clark called 9-1-1 at approximately 9:40 a.m. He told a female operator, who took
the call, that there was a severely injured man on the 44th floor of the South Tower and
that they needed to send a medic and a stretcher. The operator told Mr. Clark that he
would have to convey the information to her supervisor. She put him on hold for at least
30 to 40 seconds, and then another woman came on and said 'yes sir can I help you?'
Mr. Clark reiterated the information and informed the operator that he was in the process
of evacuating the South Tower. The second operator also told him that he would have to
talk to her supervisor and proceeded to put him on hold for approximately another
minute. When the third woman came on, Mr. Clark said, 'I'm only going to say this
once, don't put me on hold.' He repeated the vital information and said 'I'm not staying
on the phone any longer, I'm leaving now' and hung up"1.

™ Staff has located Mr. Clark's 9-1-1 call and found it be almost precisely as he described it. The transfer
he mentioned were to EMS. Mr. Clark described his experience with 9-1-1 in a videotaped interviewed
conducted by staff for the Commission's Eleventh public hearing.
COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED
After this, Mr. Clark and Mr. Praimnath proceeded back to stairwell A and
continued their descent. At approximately the 15th floor, they slowed down a bit. When
they reached plaza level on the north side of the building, the plaza area looked like "an
archaeological dig." From there, they descended the escalator to concourse level. In the
lobby, they encountered a female security official who told them that they could not go
through the lobby. She instructed them to proceed through the concourse to Victoria's
Secret, then to turn right and exit by Sam Goody. The woman did not ask them any
questions about what floor they had come from, which stairwell they had descended, or
what conditions were like on their floor, even though they were the only people in the
lobby at the time, Mr. Praimnath was visibly tattered, and they were both covered in dust,
indicating that they had descended from affected floors.

In the concourse, there was random activity of firefighters, mostly getting


themselves organized. They did not give Mr. Clark or Mr. Praimnath any directions, nor
did they question them about their escape route. Mr. Clark and Mr. Praimnath exited the
concourse through 4 WTC, as instructed. As they walked out onto Liberty Street, they
were told by a firefighter: "If you're going to cross Liberty, you've got to go for it." He
was referring to the hazards posed by debris falling to the street. Mr. Clark asked the
firefighter if he should look up to determine an appropriate time to proceed; the
firefighter said no and reiterated that they should "just go for it." Mr. Clark decided to
look up anyway and he and Mr. Praimnath made it across the street without being
harmed.

They ran a half block to a deli on Greenwich St, where they were given water and
a tray of food. They continued down Greenwich Street, which was not densely
populated. There were not too many emergency workers on the street, but people were
generally walking away from scene so they did not need to be directed to do so. Mr.
Clark and Mr. Praimnath turned east and proceeded to Trinity Place, where they
encountered a couple of ministers who said a short prayer for them and told them that
Trinity Church was open. On Rector Street (on the south side of church), Mr. Praimnath
remarked that building could come down. Just as Mr. Clark (who is an engineer) began
to say no, the first collapse began. Mr. Clark described the collapse as a series of
explosions, rather than floors just falling. Glass burst out of the windows and then the
top slid. Even having witnessed it, Mr. Clark thought that the building had only collapsed
above the fire line.

A wave of dust came over the church. Mr. Clark and Mr. Praimnath ran to 42
Broadway where they stayed for approximately 45 minutes. After this, they wandered
towards the East River but somehow became separated from each other. At
approximately 11 a.m., as he was walking through the haze near Pier 11 on South Street
(not elevated FDR), Mr. Clark heard a bullhorn directing people to the ferry to Jersey
City. The ferry left immediately as Mr. Clark got on board. People on the ferry were
primarily civilians, mostly business people trying to escape the area. There were no
injured people on the ferry.
COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED
The boat went down to Battery Park at the southern tip of Manhattan and then
proceeded up the Hudson River. It was not until it emerged from the haze that Mr. Clark
could see that both towers had come down.

After Mr. Clark got off the ferry, he called home. When his wife had seen the
South Tower collapse on TV, she had assumed—based on the time it took him to descend
from the 31st floor in 1993—that he could not have made it out of the buildingvm. She
was shocked to learn that he was alive. Mr. Clark walked to Hoboken and was able to
take a NJ Transit train home. Trains were delayed but running and he was home by 1:15
p.m.

1993 Bombing

Euro Brokers was located on the 31st floor of 1 WTC (the North Tower) at the
time of the 1993 bombing. They were scheduled to move that evening to the 84th floor of
the South Tower but, because of the incident, the move was delayed by a couple of
weeks.

After 1993, fire drills were conducted every six months. Approximately 10
civilians per floor were designated as fire wardens. Mr. Clark was a fire warden for the
84th floor. Mr. Clark told staff during his videotaped interview that he feels the Port
Authority did a great job of preparing tenants after 1993. Fire wardens were given
flashlights and whistles. The procedure for fire drills was for floor wardens to call down
to the Fire Command Desk to obtain instructions. Mr. Clark does not recall receiving a
uniform instruction regarding which way to evacuate, e.g. up or down, in the event of an
emergency. Instead he remembers being instructed to await directions which would be
given at the time. [Staff believes that fact-based instruction are more sensible than pre-
determined ones] After the drill, floor wardens would meet and confer with PA
security1".

Euro Brokers fire wardens were also given walkie-talkies from the company,
which were good for communications up to several blocks away. Staff has learned that
these walkie-talkies functioned on the morning of September 11th for communications
between people in different locations within the building as well between those in the
building and outside on the street.

Other Information

Mr. Clark learned the following information from conversations with other
evacuees and families of Euro Brokers victims.

viiiIn 1993, Euro Brokers was located on the 31st floor of the North Tower. Coincidentally, Mr. Clark was
on the 31st floor of the South Tower when he called his wife to say that he was ok.
1X These were the DFSD's conducting the drill. As of Sept 11th, OCS security, for whom these employees
worked, was contracted to SPI. Before the net lease closing, it had been contracted to the PA
COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED
Robert Coll, Euro Brokers: Mr. Coll was in the process of evacuating the
South Tower (probably by stairs) when heard the "first" p.a. announcement.
He went back upstairs with a few other people. He survived the initial impact
on the 84th floor and began descending stairwell A with Mr. Clark, but ended
up helping the heavyset woman up the stairs and perished later, presumably in
the collapse.
Michelle Scarpitta, Euro Brokers: Ms. Scarpitta arrived in the lobby of the
South Tower approximately 15 minutes after the North Tower was struck.
She was not discouraged from entering the building (evidenced by the fact she
did). On her way up in the elevator, the South Tower was struck. The elevator
became stuck on 12th floor, where Ms. Scarpitta, and possibly others, made
cell phone calls to family and friends. She apparently died in collapse of
building.
Richard Fern, Euro Brokers: Mr. Fern had just gotten into the elevator on the
84th floor of the South Tower when it was struck. He bounced around in
elevator but the doors did not close. He went right to stairwell A and was able
to successfully descend and exit the building. (See MFR Int Richard Fern)
Ron DiFrancesco, Euro Brokers: Mr. DiFrancesco survived the crash on the
84th floor of the South Tower. He was among the group which Mr. Clark led
to stairwell A. On his way to help Stanley Praimnath with Mr. Clark, Mr.
DiFrancesco, who was using gym bag as filtering mask, was overcome by
smoke. He re-entered stairwell A and went up to 91st floor to search for
clearer air. He encountered some other people there and eventually decided to
go back down and successfully descended down stairwell A. Mr.
DiFrancesco was just exiting the concourse near Sam Goody with John Kren
(an obese male employee of Euro Brokers whom he met in the concourse)
when the collapse of tower 2 began. He was blown "across" Liberty St by a
fireball. Mr. Kren died in the hospital two weeks later. (See MFR Int Ron
DiFrancesco)
Stanley Praimnath, Fuji Bank, now Mizuho Bank: Mr. Praimnath decided to
evacuate by elevator after the North Tower was struck. As he was exiting the
building through turnstiles, he was encouraged to go back by building security
(wearing blue blazers—Summit). Most of the group he was with decided to go
back but Mr. Praimnath encouraged an office temp to go home (she did).
Upstairs, Mr. Praimnath saw the second plane approaching his office from his
south-facing window on the 81st floor. He dove under his desk and survived
crash, but all the other employees he ascended with died. He was helped by
Brian Clark (see above) to escape down and evacuated by stairwell A. (SP
may have spoken directly with injured person on 44th floor) (See MFR Int
Stanley Praimnath)
Adam Arias, Euro Brokers: Mr. Arias descended to the lobby of the South
Tower after the North Tower was struck; Mr. Clark is not sure whether he
took the elevator or the stairs. He ran into 2 high school firefighter friends in
lobby and stayed to help them evacuate and direct civilians. Mr. Arias and
one of the firefighters died in collapse.
Jose Merrero, Euro Broker fire warden: (See above)
COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED
Jerry Banks: Mr. Banks was on the ground with a walkie-talkie,
communicating with people on the 84th floor. (See MFR Int Jerry Banks)
Fakae Takushima: Ms. Takushima was on the phone with her fiance Manish
Patel (Euro Broker employee) when the building collapsed.
INTERVIEW WITH JOHN WILCOX, 2-24-04:

17 State St, in middle of curve at top of battery park, look south and west, was on 28th
floor, 1 in from the end, facing north,
* talking to italy, heard huge crash

• talking to Italy, heard huge crash


• 28th floor facing north, WTC not visible, but could see edge of south tower
from westward side
• someone came in and said it was plane (from TV)
• couldn't really see anything from building
• back to office, on phone, heard roar, saw something huge and dark go by, and
heard huge explosion, people ran past office saying another plane hit
• people thought it would hit building
• nothing from building security
• discussion internally,
• military planes, amazed at how quickly brought under control, very
impressive
• when first building collapsed, didn't know, thought a section of the wall had
fallen off, saw debris falling westward, wall of puddy-color smoke wrapped
around building, no more light, no visibility
• secretary called from train, lives in jersey city (in btw); tells her come in later;
phones were still working
• after collapse, a building announcement to evacuate by elevator, 42 stories,
everything fine, they were going to shut down ventilation, sort of every man
for himself; DID NOT KNOW WHY, didn't know until got outside,
• outside, 3 inches of ash, couldn't breathe, couldn't see well, no color,
• state, battery park plaza, right behind that, went east towards broad st
• 15 mins after south tower collapsed
• police men, fire men, directing traffic, very firmly,
• telling people to walk certain
• lot of sirens and vehicles, seemed to dissipate,
• memory of silence
• walked east and north fairly slowly with hundreds of people
• at about city hall, stopped to just look, saw north tower collapse (still didn't
know other had fallen)
• some were staying in restaurants, doing different things down there,
• everyone helping each other, kind, pushing wheelchairs, people trying to get
money,
• came out of hospital, handing out masks, nurses
• 3 hrs home
• reopened Monday
• had operating plan, worked in nj, for business
• was in viet nam
COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

Re: Express Elevators in the South Tower

Type of event: Interview

Date: June 30, 2004

Special Access: None

Prepared by: Madeleine Blot

Team: 8b

Location: By email

Participants - Non Commission: former South Tower tenants

Participants - Commission staff: Madeleine Blot

In order to resolve conflicting information about whether 2 out of 10 express


elevators (serving street-level lobby to the upper sky lobby in the South Tower) were out
of service on September 11, staff asked two former WTC tenants who worked on the 84th
floor of the South Tower.

One former tenants recalled that at least 1 elevator, and possibly two, had been
out of service at some point, but did not recall whether this was the case as of September
11. The other recalled that the two elevators had been fixed as of Sept 11.
WITHDRAWAL NOTICE

RG: 148
Box: 00000nyc2 Folder: 0004 Document: 1
Series: Medeleine Blot Research Files #1

Copies: 1 Pages: 13

ACCESS RESTRICTED

The item identified below has been withdrawn from this file:

Folder Title: Civilians - WTC & surroud. areas- 911 calls


Document Date:
Document Type: Note/Notes
From:
To:

Subject:

In the review of this file this item was removed because access to it is
restricted. Restrictions on records in the National Archives are stated in
general and specific record group restriction statements which are available
for examination.

NND: 45280
Withdrawn: 02-08-2007 by:

RETRIEVAL #: 45280 00000nyc2 0004 1


COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

Re: Laura Handlin

Type of event: Interview

Date: March 8, 2004

Special access: None

Prepared by: Madeleine Blot

Team: 8b

Location: By telephone

Participants - Non Commission: Laura Handlin, Evacuated Battery Park City


Apartments complex on Sept 11th

Participants - Commission: Madeleine Blot

On the morning of September 11, 2001, Laura Handlin was in her apartment in
the Battery Park City apartment complex. She self-evacuated from her apartment after
the South Tower collapsed. The collapse had caused her TV to lose reception so she did
not know what had occurred. (Previously she had been following coverage of events on
TV). Her electricity remained on, but it was dark in her apartment. Others from her
complex had left earlier.

When Ms. Handlin came out of her building, a female officer—who may have
been NYPD—directed everyone towards the water, where they encountered firefighters.
Ms. Handlin did not look east. She and others from the area were then unexpectedly
evacuated onto a ferry to Jersey City. When the boat docked on the New Jersey side, an
announcement was made that anyone who needed medical attention should remain on
one side of the boat. Ms. Handlin noticed that several women with small children did
so—apparently to be checked out—because they were not visibly injured.

In the afternoon, the apartment complex was evacuated by the fire department,
which was going to all residential buildings in the area. The complex lost power after 7
WTC collapsed.

Ms. Handlin and her family were not able to return to their apartment for their
belongings until at least the following Monday, and did not move back home
COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED
permanently until October 31st. The phones in their apartment did not work until some
time in December.
COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

Re: Vincent Grenier

Type of event: Interview

Date: March 9, 2004

Special access: None

Prepared by: Madeleine Blot

Team: 8b

Location: By telephone

Participants - Non Commission: Vincent Grenier; Evacuated World Financial Center


(WFC) on September 11th

Participants - Commission: Madeleine Blot

On the morning of September 11, 2001, Vincent Grenier was on the 39th floor of
the World Financial Center, facing south. He heard AA Flight 11 crash into the North
Tower of the WTC. A friend of his had just gone to the Windows on the World
restaurant, which was located on the 106th / 107th floors of that building. He felt the
building shake.

Mr. Grenier does not recall hearing any building announcements, but, because he
uses a motorized wheelchair, he judged that he should begin heading immediately for the
elevator. He took one elevator to the main lobby. Then he went to a footbridge and took
a smaller elevator to the street. Many people had heard about what was occurring and
were leaving the building as well.

Mr. Grenier had parked his van near Chase Mahattan bank in Battery Park City,
but was unable to use it to evacuate the area because he thought might hit someone, given
the mass of people in the street. For a while he sat on the corner, at end of Liberty Street.
No one was directing anyone where to go.

Just as he began realizing that that was not a good place to be, UA Flight 175 hit
the South Tower above him. Mr. Grenier had previously noticed a bike path by the
Hudson River. He headed west, got to the river, and then went north on the bike path.
There were not many people in the area. There were some civilians running away, but no
emergency responders.
COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED

At Stuyvesant High School, he ran into a friend who was going back down south
because her mother was there. He said 'come with me' and he took her home. Her
mother perished that morning. He was at 23rd Street when the South Tower collapsed.
He made it all the way to his apartment on 24th and Second Ave. in his motorized
wheelchair. A few days later, he was allowed to enter the area and found that his van had
been destroyed and taken away.
COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

Re: Joseph Handlin

Type of event: Interview

Date: March 20, 2004

Special access: None

Team: 8b

Location: By telephone

Participants - Non Commission: Joseph Handlin

Participants - Commission staff: Madeleine Blot

On the morning of September 11, 2001, Joseph Handlin left early for his office on
Maiden Lane from his apartment in Battery Park City. While he was on Liberty Street,
across from the WTC, he heard a plane flying overhead and then an explosion. This was
AA Flight 11, the first plane to hit the North Tower. People started looking up and
screaming. Mr. Handlin saw fire and debris falling, and ran east on Liberty Street to his
office building. At this point, he thought the plane crash was an accident.

When Mr. Handlin arrived at his office, he received numerous emails about the
WTC. He soon felt another explosion, which was UA Flight 175 crashing into the South
Tower. He learned this either from emails he received, by the radio, or from people out
in the hall. Everyone stood around wondering what to do. Some people (who worked in
his building) came in covered with debris. There were all kinds of rumors flying, such as
that the Federal Reserve Bank was on fire. No one knew what had happened or why.

Eventually building security (or a building engineer) directed people to the


stairwells. Presumably they considered evacuating building occupants, but instead they
directed them into the basement. At around the time they were walking down, Mr.
Handlin felt another explosion (which was the South Tower collapsing). However, the
building "evacuation" had already started by this time.

Tenants were directed to a health club in the basement, where they learned from
working TV monitors what was going on. There was no cell phone reception. People
tried making calls on pay phones in the basement but Mr. Handlin does not recall whether
they were working or not. They watched the second collapse on TV.
COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED
At some point, either after or before the second collapse (but probably after it),
members of the fire and police departments came to the office and spoke either directly to
them or to the building engineer. The FD and PD were apparently doing a sweep of the
area1. However, they gave conflicting advice. One agency told building occupants to
stay put because it was not safe to go outside; the other said they should leave. Mr.
Handlin believes that it was the FDNY who advised them to stay and the NYPD who
advised them to go.

At this point, people began to leave but Mr. Handlin decided to stay, figuring it
was safe to stay inside for the moment. At about 12 or 12:30 p.m., he realized that his
daughter would be getting out of school. He took some wet towels from the health club
to put them over mouth and left. The streets were pretty deserted. He walked east, a
little out of the way of where he was headed, in order to be in clearer air. By the water, he
walked as far north as he could get before running into big crowds of other people
walking north. By the time he passed Beekman Hospital, he was in a large crowd. He
got on a city bus at approximately 15l Street, which was not charging fares. While on
the bus, at approximately 1:30 p.m., he was able for the first time to complete a call on
his cell phone. The bus was not able to move more than two blocks in half an hour
because of all of the people on the street. Mr. Handlin got off the bus and continued
walking north.

1 Information from an interview with a civilian from a nearby apartment building supports this
COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED

MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

Re: Christopher Reehm

Type of event: Interview

Date: March 2004

Special access: None

Prepared by: Madeleine Blot

Team: 8b

Location: By telephone

Participants - Non Commission: Christopher Reehm.

Participants - Commission staff: Madeleine Blot

Christopher Reehm is an investment banker with Lehman in Chicago. He was


attending a meeting on the 22nd floor of 3 World Financial Center on the morning of
September 11, 2001, on the north side of the building.

Mr. Reehm heard AA Flight 11 crash into the North Tower. His client witnessed
the incident directly and observed that it was a commercial aircraft. They went into a
conference room in the southeast corner of the floor, directly across from where they had
been meeting, and saw debris and people falling from 1 WTC.

At approximately 8:50 or 9:00 a.m., an announcement came over the public-


address system in the WFC stating that "they" had made contact with the WTC. that
everything was fine in the building and that no one should leave. The only functioning
means of communication was wireless email (Blackberries). While Mr. Reehm was
walking back to the conference room, towards the inside of the building, he heard the
second plane hit the South Tower. He did not know what it was, but observed wait staff
who were "white as ghosts" because they had witnessed what had occurred.

At this point, people started self-evacuating. Many took the stairs, but Mr. Reehm
and his group jumped into an elevator. There was not a real sense panic on anyone's
part, just a sense that they should leave. The elevators were lightly packed.
COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED
Mr. Reehm and the other person from Chicago exited to the north on Vesey Street
where they encountered a person whom Mr. Reehm knew from JP Morgan. They crossed
West Street and remained there, for 10 to 15 minutes, observing events. They witnessed
debris and people fall to the street.

There were streams of fire trucks and other emergency vehicles on West St,
heading south. The street was essentially blocked off. Emergency responders were
organizing things and getting themselves together, but did not give Mr. Reehm's group
any real direction. There were no instructions to leave the area. However, after seeing
people jumping from the building, they knew that they should leave. They started
walking north and made it to the area of the Soho Grand hotel. They contemplated
getting a room there but were able to commandeer a limosine to take them to Long
Island. As they were getting into the limo, they saw the South Tower begin to collapse in
the mirror. The limo was able to make it over the bridge. There was not too much traffic
and they arrived in Long Island by noon.
COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED

MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

Re: Elizabeth Wurtzel

Type of event: Interview

Date: June 1, 2004

Special access: None

Prepared by: Madeleine Blot

Team: 8b

Location: By telephone

Participants - Non Commission: Elizabeth Wurtzel

Participants - Commission staff: Madeleine Blot

Elizabeth Wurtzel contacted commission staff shortly after the May 18-19 hearing
to share her experience on September 11. At the time, Ms. Wurtzel lived in an apartment
building approximately three blocks north of the WTC complex, where she was at the
time of the attacks. Ms. Wurtzel believes it is important for the public to know the story
of the small group of people who lived near the WTC (in addition to that of the many
people who were present at the complex and/or lost loved ones there that day).

Ms. Wurtzel remained in her apartment after the towers were hit because she had
a sense that first responders had the situation under control. Ms. Wurtzel recalls seeing
many, many firemen, more than you could count. Although the incident was occurring
only a few blocks away, Ms. Wurtzel did not feel an immediate need to evacuate the area.
Others in the area shared her opinion.

When the South Tower collapsed, Ms. Wurtzel's apartment was consumed by the
debris cloud. She could not see or breathe and believed she was going to die. She
eventually (at some point) made her way down to the basement where. She remained
there, reluctant to leave the building without her cat. At some point, likely after the
second collapse, first responders reported to her building and directed her to leave. She
was not able to return to her apartment for several days. At that time, she was allowed to
collect some belongings and rescue her cat. Her building had been hit with debris from
the collapse of the towers, including, she believes, plane parts. Her apartment was filled
COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED
with paper and dust. The environmental clean-up crew which was assigned to clean
apartment stole her jewelry and belongings.

Ms. Wurtzel understands that she was not affected by the events of September 11
in the way that survivors (from the towers) and victims' families were. However, she
feels that no one is aware of the trauma suffered by people who lived in the immediate
area. These people's lives were substantially disrupted, in a manner and to a degree
which, under normal circumstances would be considered severe. Ms. Wurtzel lost her
home, many of her belongings, and suffered financially from the tragedy. She has
virtually had to start her life over.
COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

Re: John Wilcox

Type of event: Interview

Date: February 24, 2004

Special access: None

Prepared by: Madeleine Blot

Team: 8b

Location: By telephone

Participants - Non Commission: John Wilcox, Evacuated office building near WTC on
Sept 11th

Participants - Commission: Madeleine Blot

On the morning of September 11, 2001, John Wilcox was at his office at 17 State
Street. Mr. Wilcox's office was on the 28th floor, one room from the end of the building,
facing north. At the time AA Flight 11 crashed into 1 WTC (the North Tower), Mr.
Wilcox was in his office on a phone to call to Italy. He heard a huge crash. The WTC
was not generally visible from his window, but he could see the edge of the South Tower
from the westward side of the building. Someone came in and told him that it was a
plane; the person had learned this information from TV. Mr. Wilcox and his co-workesr
could not really see anything from their building.

On his way back to his office, Mr. Wilcox heard a roar and saw something huge
and dark go by. He heard a huge explosion, and people ran into his office saying that
another plane had hit. People who observed this had thought that the plane was going to
hit their building. They did not receive any instruction from building security, but
discussed internally how to proceed.

When the first tower (the south tower) collapsed, Mr. Wilcox did not know what
happened. He thought a section of the wall had fallen off. He saw debris falling
westward, and a wall of puddy-colored smoke wrapped around his building so that there
was no more light or visibility. However, the phones were still working; Mr. Wilcox's
secretary called from the train on her way into the city from Jersey City. He told her to
come in later.
COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED
After the first collapse, there was a building announcement to evacuate by the
elevators. They were in a 42-story building and everything in their building was fine, but
they were going to shut down the ventilation. It was sort of every man for himself at that
point. Mr. Wilcox still did not know what happened or why they had been evacuated.
He did not learned what had occurred until he got outside.

Outside, there was three inches of ash. He could not breath or see very well.
There was no color. He went east towards Broad Street. This was approximately 15
minutes after the South Tower collapsed (approx 10:15 a.m.). There were policemen and
firemen on the street directing traffic very firmly and instructing people to walk in a
certain direction. There were many sirens and vehicles but that soon seemed to dissipate.
Mr. Wilcox most remembers the silence.

Some people remained in the area, in restaurants or doing different things.


Everyone was being kind and helping each other, pushing wheelchairs.

Mr. Wilcox ended up walking east and north, fairly slowly, with hundreds of
people. He was amazed at how quickly military planes arrived and brought things under
control; he found that very impressive. Near City Hall, he stopped for a moment, just to
look. When he did so, he witnessed the North Tower collapse. He was still not aware
that the South Tower had completely fallen.

On his way uptown, nurses came out of a hospital and handed out masks. It took
Mr. Wilcox three hours to walk home. His office reopened the following Monday, with
people working in NJ, according to its pre-established operating plan.
COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

Re: Volunteer witness Carl Tendler

Type of event: Interview and follow up

Date: March 2, 2004

Special Access Issues: none

Prepared by: Madeleine Blot

Team Number: 8b

Location: By telephone

Participants - Non Commission: Carl Tendler

Participants - Commission: Madeleine Blot

Carl Tendler contacted staff members Elinore Hartz and Gate Taylor to inform the
Commission that he possessed information regarding the attacks of September 11th
which he witnessed from a nearby apartment building. Staff member Madeleine Blot
made an initial telephone call to Mr. Tendler.

During the telephone interview, Mr. Tendler stated that he was "police witness
#1", meaning that he was the first person, he believed, to have called 9-1-1 to report the
attacks. He concluded this from the fact that the operator who took his call asked
"where?" (e.g., where the incident had occurred), indicating that she did not possess prior
knowledge of the evetn. Mr. Tendler responded "Manhattan," and the operator said:
"we're on the way." However, staff member George Delgrosso has determined that Mr.
Tendler was not the first witness to call 9-1-1, even if he was the first to reach the
particular operator with whom he spoke. Mr. Tendler also stated that he gave a live
interview to CBS news while the attacks were unfolding. He initially indicated that the
network had contacted him but later reasoned that he had probably made the call. He told
staff that the CBS Canada affiliate should have a record of the interview.

Mr. Tendler stated that he spoke with someone named "DePaolo" who was a
member of what he called the "preliminary commission," comprised of "architects, civil
engineers, a civil engineering society." DePaolo told Mr. Tendler that he would contact
him when the 'preliminary commission' got money (funding).

Mr. Tendler is very concerned that the following two pieces of information be
conveyed. 1) Before 1 WTC "blew up" (e.g., collapsed), Mr. Tendler witnessed a
COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED
"preliminary explosion." The TV tower (antenna) rose up through the clouds for a
second, then came back down. A police helicopter, which was hovering off to the side,
backed off just before the explosion; if it had not, it would have been caught. 2) Mr.
Tendler also observed the second plane (UA Flight 175) approach the second tower from
"Newark." [This is not where Flight 175 originated, but perhaps he means the direction.]
The aircraft flew over his terrace, not more than 100 feet away. As it approached the
building, it was "all over the place." It looked like it would miss the building. Before
hitting the tower it banked, but recovered and made a turn into the edge of the building.
Based on this, Mr. Tendler surmised that there was "fighting going on in the cockpit,
something had to be going on there," maybe throats were cut or they were dragged from
their seat (presumably Mr. Tendler means the terrorists flying the plane at that point.)
Mr. Tendler explained that he able to knowledgeably assess the situation because he is a
pilot himself. He has heard that the Commission was interested in receiving information
about the second aircraft.

Mr. Tendler is very concerned that his testimony reach, and be considered by,
appropriate officials. "Maxine Green" said he should contact her if the Commission does
not act on his information. Mr. Tendler has also contacted the FBI to inform them that he
was #1 on the police witness list. They apparently took his name and telephone number
and called him back once; however he does not seem to have found their response
satisfactory.

Mr. Tendler offered to submit pictures and a written statement to commission


staff. After some trouble, Mr. Tendler was eventually able to send his written testimony
to staff by fax. Also after some trouble, he was able to meet with staff member George
Delgrosso to hand over his pictures. Mr. Delgrosso had several dealings with Mr.
Tendler before and after this meeting.

Mr. Tendler subsequently called staff member Madeleine Blot to request to testify
at the Commission's Eleventh public hearing on May 18-19 in New York. Staff
informed Mr. Tendler that the witness list had already been set. When Mr. Tendler
reiterated that he had invaluable information to convey, he was informed that staff has
similar information from other sources. Mr. Tendler requestesd an "invitation" to the
hearing and was informed that, while no one was invited by invitation, the hearing was
open to the public. Mr. Tendler reiterated the two pieces of information mentioned
above. Staff assured him that they were in receipt of his testimony and thanked him for
his willingness to assist. Staff also explained that information regarding the cause of the
towers' collapse should be directed to NIST, which was conducting an investigation
specifically on that matter. Mr. Tendler was not satisfied with this response.

Mr. Delgrosso called Mr. Tendler once again to assure him that staff was aware of
his information but that he would not be called to testify at the hearing. He was given
contact information for NIST.
COMMISSION SENSITIVE
UNCLASSIFIED
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

Re: 9/11 Commission Eleventh Public Hearing presentation

Type of event: Partial transcripts of videotaped civilian interviews

Date: May 2004

Special Access: None

Prepared by: Madeleine Blot

Team: 8b

Location: N/A

Participants - Non Commission: N/A

Participants - Commission staff: N/A

The following is a partial transcript (in the form of "sound bites") of videotaped
interviews conducted by commission staff of 1) Claire Mclntyre, evacuee from 91st floor
of North Tower; 2) Brian Clark, evacuee from 84th floor of South Tower; 3) Richard
Fern, evacuee from 84th floor of South Tower; and 4) Stanley Praimnath, evacuee from
81st floor of South Tower, in preparation for the Commission's Eleventh public hearing in
NYC on May 18-19. Portions of the compilation were inadvertently omitted when staff
revised the "sound bite" list at the request of producer Allison Prince. However, full
interviews are available on original videotape.

I. "Sound Bites" from Claire Mclntyre Interview (American Bureau of Shipping,


91st floor, North Tower)

CM: (IN: 01:02:46:02) "we had twenty-two people... we were on the 91st floor of
building one... in the northwest corner... about a quarter of the floor, roughly" (OUT
01:02:58:10) CM (IN: 01:10:14:05) "We had 22 people working in that office, that
morning we had only 11 people there" (OUT 01:10:18:21) [A]

CM: (IN: 01:04:28:17)".. .1 heard this terrible roar... (looked up, heard it, felt, plane
halfway through building, could see the wing and tail) "going in" (OUT: 01:04:48:07)
[B]

[CM (IN: 01:24:21:10) "I was a deputy warden and we had a couple of searchers"
(OUT:01:24:27:02) CM (IN:01:24:39:13) "We all had flashlights and hats and whistles"
(OUT:01:24:43:11) not great CM: (IN: 01:05:20:07) "We went cubicle by cubicle to
(make sure we have everyone... one of our people was buried under debris) ... "closest
to the east side of the building" (OUT: 01:05:31:25) CM: (IN: 01:05:37:29) "So we
gathered in the reception area; made sure we had everybody who we know was there"
(OUT: 1:05:43:13)]

[CM: (IN: 01:06:38:05) "Then we went to see which stairwell was going to be the best
one go down; there was one right outside our office and we looked at that and it was very
dark; and one of our guys went and looked at the other one and he said that one seemed
worse, so we came back to the one that was near us and we couldn't even get to the third
one, it was just, that whole half of the floor was demolished" (OUT: 01:07:05:03)]

[CM (IN 01:37:32:17) "When we went into the stairwell on the 91st floor, we were not
really able to observe the conditions above us, because it was dark; I kind of remember
debris just hanging from the ceiling and of course there was this water just pouring down
from somewhere up there, but it was so dark that you couldn't really see what was up
there" (OUT 01:38:02:10)]CM (IN 1:38:06:10) "We had the sense, you know, that it was
blocked above us" (OUT 01:38:09:12)]

CM (IN: 01:07:07:00) "We started down the stairs and it was dark for about two or three
flights; it was dark and there was water just pouring down from above" (OUT:
01:01:07:17:18) CM (IN:01:24:53:27) "The flashlight was useful for the first couple of
flights because it was dark, I mean it was really dark" (OUT:01:25:00:06) CM
(IN: 01:25:11:28) "After going out into the hallway and yelling (for everyone to get out) I
went into my office (to get my pocketbook) and also I grabbed the flashlight and my
whistle; it was useful for the first few flights going down because it was completely dark,
and there was water flowing down so it was dangerous too, and there was some debris
even on the landing" (OUT:01:25:38:23) [C]

CM (IN: 01:07:37:29): "It was pretty empty for a while... and I would say by the time
we got to the low eighties, (we saw more people come in) "to the stairwell" (OUT:
01:07:49:08) [D]

CM (IN: 01:07:55:15) "It got more and more congested as we went further down; we did
change stairwells twice" (OUT: 01:08:00:27) [E]

[CM (IN: 01:11:27:26) "When we first started down the stairs it was pretty quick and
easy because there wasn't that much congestion; there weren't too many people coming
out into the stairwell (OUT: 01:11:39:09)]

CM (IN: 01:15:06:13) "We never really heard any announcements or received any
information all the way down" (OUT: 01:15:11:18) [G]

CM (IN 01:26:17:01) "In the staircase from probably somewhere in the low 80's down
(air quality not too bad, some smoke, light, never heavy, where you couldn't breathe, a
little uncomfortable but not too bad and the lights in the stairwells worked all the way
down except the first 2 or 3 flight) there were lights the rest of the way"
(OUT:01:26:49:20) [F]

CM (IN: 01:08:32:12) "We came to the 77th floor and for some reason we had to go
down a long hallway and the when we got to the end of it, it was a locked door; we
couldn't go any further; so we went back and we went back up to 78" (01:08:48:07)
CM (IN 01:21:40:05) "There was no way to get through it, to open it; and that was
on 77th (OUT:01:21:48:01); Not going to use this? (not marked; but here are times
just in case)

CM (IN 02:02:46:25) "When we went down into the concourse, down the escalator and
into the concourse, it was just people trying to get out, water about two inches thick and
the security or rescue people directing us to go out, to keep moving towards Borders and
then go out, and then when we got outside, they were still saying, kind of directing us to
go kind of east" (OUT 02:03:23:20) [H]

[CM (IN 01:38:32:09) "When we went through the concourse and up the escalator and
out the door by Borders and we started across the street to the ambulance, it probably was
about two minutes before building two started to come down" (OUT 01:38:49:2) ]

Fire drills

CM (IN:01:19:50:01) "I think we did feel prepared in a sense, we had the fire drills twice
a year, so we knew where the stairwells were" (OUT 01:19:58:02) (IN: 01:23:40:13) "I
say we all knew, a couple of people really didn't know" (OUT:01:23:43:13)

CM (IN: 01:20:39:01): "We just basically knew to go, and we also had been there in
1993, so our people knew what to expect... there was no question as to what to do really"
(OUT:01:20:56:26)

CM (01:28:34:09) "We never went into the stairs and there was no description about
transfers hallways" (OUT:01:28:43:22) that would have been helpful to know at least
for wardens etc.

CM (IN 1:30:31:06) "We were not advised that the roof doors were locked" (OUT
1:30:28)

1993 (Statement 3)
CM (IN:01:26:51:03) "It was a great improvement over 1993 because the whole way
down they had no lights" (OUT:01:26:58:29)

II. Sound bites from Brian Clark Interview (Euro Brokers, 84th floor, South Tower)

1993
BC (IN 02:08:56:29) "I 1993 we occupied the 31st floor of the south tower... (heard
boom, went to window, thought there was gas explosion, people running out of Marriott,
later people came in 'there's smoke in the hallway'; announced that everyone should
evacuate; slow evacuation, stairs got clogged at 27, long, long time to get out, a lot of
smoke at 10th floor, firemen passing, damage in basement, calmed everyone down, exited
on west side on NT, went to WFC where there was triage, oxygen)... certainly a lot more
tolerable than September 11th, 2001" (OUT 02:11:25:01)

Preparation / Fire Drills

BC (IN 02:13:15:27): "During the period from 1993 to 2001, a personal opinion of mine
is that the PA did an excellent job of preparing the building and preparing individuals for
evacuation procedures, fire emergencies procedures (updated stairways; ensured every
company had strobe lights, and more than adequate and well-tested sound system, could
hear announcements anywhere in office, encouraged senior people to be fire wardens on
theory that senior people were listened, BC volunteered, rigorous in conducting fire
drills, not evacuation drills, talks about procedures, then fire marshals all assembled for
further instructions, upgrading of flash lights, lists of people) it was well done and well
conducted for that entire period" (OUT 02:14:48:20)

BC (IN 02:15:40:10) "I do not recall an evacuation drill, even ten floors or five floors"
(OUT 02:15:46:28)

BC (IN 02:15:46:25) "We were instructed there were re-entry doors (people given
assignments, I was assigned to stairway C, tell people to enter or not) because perhaps the
fire was below in stairway C" (OUT 02:16:07:28)

BC (02:16:18:10) "I was not given any particular instructions with regard to transition of
stairs between floors, which is something I encountered on September the 11th, there were
detours if you like in the stairways, I understand that stairway B was a straight shot from
top to bottom, but stairway A and stairway C, there were some diversions" (OUT
2:16:45:19)

(IN 03:20:10:05) "The fire drills instilled in me the sense that I needed to go below if I
could, below flames, so that was built in, there is a frustration that other people didn't
have that beaten into them or that it wasn't instinctive for them to do" (OUT 03:20:35:24)

BC (IN 03:27:05:12): "During the fire drills that were conducted, I don't recall
specifically being told don't go up (maybe made, common knowledge that you shouldn't
go up, firmly instructed to go to center hallways and await instruction, probably be told to
use to fire escapes to get down below, typically assumed it would be waste bin fire,
localized fires, so there would be choice as to stairwells etc, don't recall personally ever
hearing don't go up, to roof, but through the media, prior to 9/11)... there was just this
sense that that's not what you would do" (03:28:25:06)
BC (IN 3:28:29:20) "During the fire drills, there was no evacuation procedures, I don't
recall being instructed to go down ten floors and use a re-entry door, it was strictly that's
where the stairs are, pay attention to people, not on the fire team, the fire warden team,
they would be told to listen to the instruction to the people at the doorway" (OUT
03:28:52:26)

September 11th

After NT was hit:

BC (IN 02:17:59:28) "There was a loud boom (office west wall, outside office, so glass
behind me as working etc)... I heard a loud boom; the lights in my office buzzed and I
glanced up at them and then my peripheral vision, behind me, caught something, and I
spun in chair and just 2 yds from me, outside glass, 84 floors in the air were swirling
flames" (OUT 02:18:29:10) [A]

BC (IN 02:18:39:15) "I jumped up from my desk, reached in my credenza, grabbed the
flash light that the Port Authority had given me, put my whistle on and exited my office
and just announced in a loud voice, there's been an explosion upstairs, come on
everybody we've got to start (leaving, maybe wait for instructions) but put the phone
down and get out into the hallways" (OUT 02:18:05:12) [B]

BC (02:19:06:23) "People, probably in a bit of a panic mode, quickly started down the
stairs, without actually waiting for instructions" (OUT 02:19:15:07) [C]

BC (IN 3:29:17:21) "I don't recall any announcements that tower 2 should evacuate,
quite the opposite, I clearly recall hearing building 2 is secure, there's no need to
evacuate building 2, now that was approximately at two minutes to 9, that's my best
estimate, five minutes before our tower was hit" (OUT 3:28:21:18) "And I'm guessing at
that timing because, at three minutes after nine, at the time of impact, I was talking to a
gentleman who said he had gone down half a dozen or ten floors and come back up
because of that announcement" (OUT 3:29:57) [D]

BC (IN 02:20:09:05) "I went for a walk to the east side of the tower to the north
windows, didn't quite get to the windows because I heard very early on that people were
starting to jump from the north tower" (OUT 02:20:18:26)

After ST was hit:

No real lead in introducing ST being hit (part of previous narrative)


BC (IN 02:22:22:00) "This double explosion and, without flames, without smoke in the
room, our room exploded, almost like a percussion explosion, everything came out of the
ceiling, ceiling tiles, speakers, lights, some air conditioning ducts, the walls sort of
torqued doorframes, one of two doorframes, sort of fell out of the wall" (OUT
2:22:45:08) [El]
[Took out section in between El and E2]

BC (IN 02:23:04:18) "The whole building just seemed to go one way for yards; I think it
went six, eight feet. That was the sensation at least" (OUT 02:23:13:22) tend not to
exaggerate these things, that was really how bad it felt (IN 02:23:18:03) "I thought the
building was going over, that was the sensation, I thought something horrible has
happened" (OUT 02:23:25:06) thought it was terrorism [E2]

BC (IN 02:23:53:19) "So the building went this long distance, it stopped and then it came
slowly back to vertical" (OUT 02:23:59:26)

You might want to start this earlier; talks about gathering group and deciding to
use stairway A; was not originally included in transcript because I didn't think we
were telling whole stories

BC (IN 3:01:31:22) "We went the hallway on the 84th floor and I happened to turn left to
stairway A... (tells story about meeting fat woman and small man, going to rescue
Stanley and workmates going up)... down we went" (03:05:25:19) this is Stanley
story; not sure exactly where you want to stop; eventually leads to "F" (but
shouldn't this be F?); piece before tells same story but gives a little more detail;
since it used names, it was stopped short but maybe you can piece them together if
you like details better; (now that we're giving and telling personal stories)

BC (IN 03:07:45:13) "We started down the stairs and we initially encountered nothing
but a lot of smoke, it got heavier and heavier, but then we started to come across drywall
that had blown in off the fire escape stairways, there was drywall laying against the
railing, sort of stopping us from walking or it was laying on the stairs, like a slide, there
was a smoke, there was a lot of water under foot, and in a couple of places, I'm guessing
around the 78th, 77th floor, there was only one layer of drywall left that was cracked and
the flames were licking up the other side of the wall, we didn't feel heat, I don't recall
feeling heat necessarily, but the flames were right there, if we'd stuck our hands through
the cracks we'd burn, I didn't sense there was a roaring inferno because perhaps it was
starved for oxygen there, but the flames were definitely there... (got to 74th floor,
mistakenly repeats as 78th floor, and talks about normal conditions)... We continued on
down to the 68th floor, we met the only person we passed in the stairway, another
workmate of mine, carrying his walkie-talkie walking up the stairs, I said 'where are you
going', he said I can hear another one of our workmates upstairs with the walkie-talkie
helping people, I'm going up to help him" (OUT 3:09:17:16) again, he tells this story
more eloquently using Jose's name (see right before) if you want to use part of it; [F]

CONFUSION WITH TRANSFER HALLWAYS: THIS IS PART OF DESCENT


STORY BUT WAS NOT ADDED UNTIL LATER (was not reminded to address
until later)

BC (IN 03:23:58:16) "As we descended the stairways, (one strange thing that I recall
happening is that) the stairway, stairway A at least and I learned later that stairway C is
the same... stairway doesn't go straight down... as you descend, come to situation where
you must traverse down a hallway... down hallway, make turn, not normal spot another
transition... a bit of confusion especially in the darkness and especially when that was the
distress area... I believe that the impact zone was around the 78th floor in the south tower
and that's where these transitions occur" (OUT 03:24:40:24) "So, where the damage was
it was confusing, as we descended, it would be much more a normal expectation that the
stairway would just continue to zigzag back and forth... that didn't happen on two of the
stairways" (OUT 03:24:58:06)

BC (IN 03:25:03:14) "I fortunately had a flashlight cause it was dark in that area, it
wasn't pitch black, it was nonetheless confusing especially w/ the drywall down on the
floor, you weren't sure if the stairway had been knocked out, it was just a confusing
sensation" (OUT 3:25:30:01)

END OF STORY BC1 (though NT and ST will have to be separated)

START BC2 STORY [broke up A, B & C as requested, although it is one


continuous piece]

(IN 03:09:33:21) "I continued on down with Stanley until we got to the 44th floor where
we took our first break (into lower sky lobby, completely empty, no one there except one
security guard, and injured man, do you have phones?, no, describes security guard and
victim, security guard says he'll say, BC and SP leave to find phones, enter on 31st floor,
a re-entry floor, call wives)... and I called 911" (OUT 03:11:3 0:12) [A]

(IN 03:34:52:23) "When we got into the conference room on the 31st floor... (called
wives, about 9:40, also called 911 to tell them a man down on the 44th floor, they needed
to get a medic and a stretcher, put me on hold, on hold for 30 seconds, a second person,
I'm in the midst of evacuating, on hold again, another seemed like a long, long time, I
explained clearly to the third person, I'm in the midst of leaving this building, put the
phone down)... I just didn't want to want any longer" (OUT 03:36:12:18) [B]

[BC (IN 03:11:30:12) "I had a very frustrating experience calling 911... (I'm sure over 3
mins, told them situation, asked for number, put me on hold, waited for supervisor,
repeated story, happened again, repeated story for a 3rd person, finally said he had to
leave) ... put the phone down" (OUT 03:12:29:05) [B] ]
two descriptions of 911 call; 1st one makes point that BC told 911 that he was trying
to evacuate south tower;

(IN 03:12:29:05) "Stanley and I went back to the stairs... (got to plaza level, on north
side, looked out, saw abandoned archeological site, no people, normally lively people
place, deserted white moonscape, stared in disbelief, went down escalator to concourse
level, PA woman directs them, went through revolving doors, saw FF and NYPD just
putting on coats etc, no panic, gets to Liberty, FF says go for it, should we look up, no,
just got for it, but BC looks up anyway)... we made it and went down Greenwich Street"
(03:14:47:06) [C] (concourse story sounds like he's saying FF and police are being
cavalier; really means to be making point that there wasn't much panic, but might
want to edit?)

BC (IN 03:34:29:04) "During my walk through the concourse, nobody stopped Stanley
and I, said who are you, where did you come from, there was no interaction whatsoever"
(OUT 3:34:35:09)

BC (IN 3:37:08:24) "When Stanley and I ran across Liberty Street, my best estimate is
that it was three minutes before the building collapsed" (OUT 3:37:16) if building came
down at 10, probably 9:57

Civilians unaware that ST has collapsed:

BC (IN 03:17:36:20) "As we got up lateral to, or parallel to the trade center, coming up
the Hudson is when we got into the fresh air and that's when most people on our ferry
boat realized for to the first time that both towers were down, because there was no
communication, there were no phones, there was no information flowing prior to that"
(OUT 03:17:56 12) "It wasn't until we all saw it for the first time that, at least for me,
was when I realized the magnitude of what had happened" (OUT 03:18:03)

Lessons

(IN 03:22:02:10) "Personally, I know that when I go to a place like a hotel (finds out
where fire escapes are, count doors, when I visit people, I assume that person knows
where fire escapes are... company keeps list of people, contact info, and has designated
place to assemble in case of evacuation)... and identify each other" (03:23:08:23)

BC (IN 03:23:13:23) "We are insistent in our building that we have evacuation drills, not
just fire drills, but our people know where the stairwells are what they're like as you go
down, the alternative stairways, what happens at the bottom, what happens halfway
down, we have certainly taken all that to heart" (OUT 03:23:31:07)

ffl. Sound bites from Richard Fern Interview (Euro Brokers, 84th floor, North
Tower)

Fire Drills

(IN 04:14:06:10) "My door was always closest to stairway A, that's why I knew where
stairway A was... (fire drills, they would show us the door, don't think they opened the
door, didn't have an evacuation off the floor, only took us to core of building, after they
had everyone gathered, then dispersed us) and that was the end of the fire drill" (OUT
0414:36:07)
(IN 04:14:45:16) "Our instructions during a fire drill (report to center of core, at that
time further instructions, no hints as to whether to go up or down, could be a matter of
what stairs was opened or closed) what conditions were there" (OUT 04:15:12:12)

(IN 04:15:56:25) "We were never told about the configuration of the stairs below the
floors" (OUT 4:16:01:07)

Sept. 11th

(IN 4:07:45:07) "We were all on the same floor but what had happened was,
unbeknownst to me, my boss, of my group, was involved in the bombing of 93, (so as
soon as the bomb went off... the plane hit the other building, it was right outside his
window, he was on the phone talking to someone, and he threw the phone down and said
everyone get out, he cleared out the whole group) and they went down the stairs" (OUT
04:08:10:17)

Announcements

(IN 5:14:26:26)"After the first announcement for the Port Authority or PA system not to
evacuate the floor, I guess I kind of felt comfortable to stay on the floor" (OUT
5:14:41:28)

(IN 05:26:14:09) "Shortly before our building was hit, there was a second announcement
by the Port Authority that if you wish to leave the building, if conditions warrant, you can
the building, at that time that I decided I would evacuate the floor and go down" (OUT
5:26:35:29)

(IN 04:30:26:11) "I don't remember what the exact announcement was, it was more,
from what I can remember, it was just a suggestion to leave the building" (OUT
4:30:40:21)

A-E
(IN 04:22:41:18) "I grabbed my keys off of my desk and I headed out to the elevators
(was surprised elevator was working, wasn't sure if should use elevator or stairs, since it
opened, figured it was ok, safe because nothing happening in our building, when pressed
button to go 78th floor is when the plane struck our building, tossing me onto the left side,
hitting the wall against my head and I fell down on all fours and just felt the building go
over, and then the building righted itself, jumped up headed to emergency exit, there
wasn't smoke on our floor yet, made it to the emergency exit, checked door, handle not
hot, opened door, dark, some smoke, started to run down, stairs not lit, white stripe on
floor, glow stripe on floor and handrail, didn't see anybody etc, went down as far as I
could, until I came into a wall, look like reconfiguration of the stairs, went along wall,
went onto floor, daylight, another tenant's space, heard someone scream don't use those
stairs, go this way, started to run there, saw injured person) cut from her neck and arm"
(OUT 04:25:25:00)
F (alternate)
(IN 04:31:18:15) "I stepped into the elevator, (pressed button to go down when plane
struck building, hit my head on left side wall, ended up on all fours and I ended up
exiting the elevator, tried to get to the nearest emergency exit) which happened to be
stairway A" (OUT 4:31:44:14)

(IN 04:32:12:05) "Upon entering stairway A, I started to run down the stairs, running
down the stairs, the condition in the stairs were smoky, there were no lights in stairway,
there was s glow strip on the handrail. Otherwise, you couldn't see anything in the stairs,
between the smoke and the darkness... ran down what I believe to be several floors until
I got into the 70's and at that point the stairs got reconfigured in such a way where I
couldn't see... got onto floor, lit, heard someone scream don't use those stairs, went to
that voice, saw people lining up to go down another staircase, got in line with them,
seemed like group was just starting to go down staircase... a few more flights down, the
staircase was actually lit, ran into a man and woman, just standing there saying they
couldn't pass because a wall had fell in and it was blocking the stairs, didn't respond,
lifted wall to prop on banister, the next floor, there was another floor, blown in, that was
not as big as first wall, so jumped on top and continued to go downstairs, only real
obstructions, some water, nothing that bad, that you couldn't get through" (OUT
4:35:10:24)
G
(IN 4:36:01:26) "When we got down to about the 4th or 5th floor, we saw firemen coming
up and we would just stand to the side while the firemen were coming up, wasn't many,
maybe about 4 or 5, carrying picks and axes, and carrying their air tanks, at that point
exited on 2nd floor, directed by PA people, came down to lobby by freight cars, directed
out by PA security personnel to exit by old Chase Bank, then came out there, made a
right went to PATH escalators, made a left, by Sparrows, made a right, then we went up
an escalator by Borders bookstore and we were directed to cross the street over by the
church" (OUT 4:37:32:01)

(IN 4:38:24:12) "Nobody asked me what floors we came from or if there was anybody
still upstairs or anything like that we were just directed out of the building at that time, as
quickly as possible" (OUT 4:38:37:22)

IV. Sound bites from Stanley Praimnath Interview (Fuji Bank (now Mizuho), 81st
floor, South Tower)

1993
(IN 6:02:58:07) "I worked on the 79th floor in 1993, lunch hour, pork chops and rice,
heard a big boom, lights flickered, smoke rose, got dark, hard to breathe, relocated us to
higher floors, 82nd, 84th floors, wanted to airlift us but because it was a windy day, they
chose to let us stay until the smoke subsided; we took the stairwell, A staircase, it was
pitch black, stairs were not painted with luminous paint, did not glow then, effort to see
your hand in front of your face, formed human chain, counted stairs going down, got all
the way down and red cross folks there, Red Cross handing out blankets etc)... got home
at two o'clock the next day" (OUT 06:04:36:13)

Fire Drills
(IN 6:04:58:24) "After 93,1 became a fire warden of my floor, (but all we do is those
fire drills, woop-woop, evacuate office, take elevator, go down 1 floor, but we were never
shown internal staircase, even to sky lobby, taught to be familiar w/ stairs near them,
never told about emergency evacuation procedure either, get to closest staircase, sky
lobby, re-entry, but we had never walked down, apart from the 93 bombing, and we were
told to stay away from the elevators, improvements to office, not very much, fire people
came in every now and then, check every 75 ft fire extinguisher, but didn't teach how to
use, didn't know if sprinkler system worked, never taken to roof, didn't have a clue,
told not to go because if it was windy it would knock us off,... apart from that not
very much was said" (OUT 06:06:30:03) SHOULD EDIT; part about roof is
misleading, SP seems to think emergency procedure WAS to go to roof and is
therefore troubled that they were never brought there in fire drills; also inconsistent
about use of elevators; probably this piece should not be used;

(IN 6:06:41:14) "We didn't do any transfers between floors, (no transfer between floors,
going in and out of halls, assembled in center of floor, gave us a little lecture, showed
visible signs of stairs A, B, an C... not much was said... always advance notice, but why
tell me about it?) catch me off guard and see how I would react" (OUT 06:07:23:26)

(IN ) "Initially when we had fire drills because I was a fire warden for my floor
(never said to go up, just take internal staircase, A, B, or C, get down to a lower floor,
never told us to go up to higher floors, never told us to use the roof as an evacuation
procedure, matter of fact they never told us how to use the fire extinguisher, we had it
there, they would tell us, pull pin and spray nozzle toward fire, but never seen how to use
it, just assuming you pull pin, point nozzle, so fire wardens, we were never shown had to
do it, would think every so often you would have a demonstrations as to how, and if
there's an evacuation procedure like getting to a higher floor, away from smoke as it
rises, which we did in 1993, but never done in local fire drills, never gone to roof, don't
know what roof looks like, yet in 93 they wanted to airlift us off the roof, but never
address in any of our fire drills because after a drill they would call us down, all they
would make sure if you have a flashlight, have a whistle, and that was about it, have
people check bathrooms, but people treated it as if, just another fire drill, because they
told in advance) so why go to begin with, we know it's a dumb thing" (OUT 7:12:06:11)

Sept 11th

From later questioning:


(IN 7:01:01:15) "Before I went downstairs the first time, I did not hear any
announcements (on the phone, saw plane, no saw fireballs)... cut off by questioning

(IN 7:01:29:15) "The first plane hit at 8:46, so it would be about five, ten minutes to 9,1
decided to go downstairs (to get to boss in building 1, couldn't get on phone, told young
lady w/ me let's get out of here, but at that time there was no announcement, I did not
hear any announcement, we went on our own, so we had down hallway to local elevator,
when got to sky lobby, did not hear any announcement either, had no clue what was
happening, only when we got to lobby and were going through turnstiles when the
security guard said that, that's when I started hearing announcements, the building is
secure, get back to your office, what I don't understand is you have two buildings that are
so close together, something is wrong with one, naturally you evacuate the other, I don't
know why we were sent back" (OUT 7:02:32:04)

A-F
(IN 6:11:46:09) "As we were about to exit the building through the turnstile first, the
security guard looks at me and says where you guys are going, I said well I'm going
home—why? because I saw fireballs coming down, no, you're building is safe, it's
secure, go back to your office" (OUT 6:12:02:04)

[From later questioning:


(IN 7:12:22:22) "Our building, our company had occupied 4 floors of the tower, 79th
through 82" , (apparently when first building was hit, a lot of people did not come into
second tower, to my knowledge, on the 4 floors, only about 20 who took that elevator,
went downstairs, when went back, there was 19 of us, those 18 didn't make it out, upon
impact, they were all gone) I was the only one who was able to back out (OUT
7:12:57:02)

(IN 7:13:55:11) "When we were in the lobby the first time before I sent that temp home,
nobody tried to stop her but people from my company wanted to know why I was making
that bad judgment to call to send her home, (but the security guards still keep saying your
building is safe, it's secure, but she paid them no mind, she continued walking, because I
was about to leave, to go through turnstile, and he said to me, specifically, where are you
going, I said I'm going home because I saw the fireballs, and he said your building is
safe, go back to your office, I had a choice of listening to this man and going back in the
elevator or going home, and I decided against going home, because bosses going back to
work, might think not faithful employee, so I took chance of going back in elevator and
going to work) of course it was the wrong choice we all made" (OUT 7:15:00:17)]

back to A - G
[intermediate section cut off by questioning; may have to use some for section below
because makes references to things previously mentioned without explaining again]
(IN 6:15:09:08) "So we are in the lobby, the men are holding onto the door of the
elevator, (I looked at the young lady, told her to go, announcement to go back to your
office, caller from Chicago, telling me get out of building, intercom system, PA system,
your building is safe, it's secure, remain in your office, stay in your office, sees airplane
coming, giant grey airplane, sees U on tail, this is strange, not often you see a plane
coming towards you, usually looking at it going away, "Lord I can't do this, you take
over", dropped the phone, screamed, and dove under desk, the most ear-shattering sound
ever... plane crashed into building, plane wing sliced right through office, and it stuck in
my door 20 feet from where I am, huddled under my desk, upon impact, the ceiling caved
in, part of the 82nd floor collapsed, I'm trapped under steel desk, the only desk that stood
firm, everything else broken up, it looked like a demolition crew came and just knocked
everything; every wall was broken up, computers were broken up, everything, it looked
like somebody, took a giant bag of cement and just threw it in the air, and you can't see,
and jet fuel is smelling so profusely I can't even breathe, trying to get up from under
desk, because bottom wing is starting to burn, a little glow, if floor don't cave in, then
plane is going to blow up, sprinkler system on, all these cables hanging in the ceiling just
short-circuiting and sparking, going to die one way or other, screaming for help, covered
to shoulder in debris, head touching ceiling, so lie down, all these mangled furniture and
steel and rubble and I will crawl; someone heard me scream; person had flashlight, that's
the light I saw and crawled across whole floor, got closer to where light and one lousy
sheetrock wall that stood firm; person says knock on wall; having conversation through
wall; I ask him 'what's your name' 'do you go to church'; if you want to live climb
over...) cut off by questioning at 6:19:20:27; picks up at

(IN 6:19:31:29) "The man says 'knock on the wall, I'll know exactly where you are';
(describes rescue, can't climb over because of wounds, condition, Brian says no you
jump, I'll catch you, tries to jump first time and missed; 5'10" wall is 10 ft; nail
punctured hand; bite out nail and try again; pulls it out, ready to give up, for some
unknown, divine reason, I was saved; Lord you didn't bring me up to here to leave me to
die; took a punch, through wall; eventually Brian pulls him through, grabs neck and pulls
over, falls down on top of him; introduce each other, I've always been an only child,
found a brother, puts his arm around me)... come on let's go home" (OUT 6:22:23:14)

(IN 6:23:26:10) "Brian knew we had to take the stairwell A, but there was so much
rubble, don't remember much, I think we just slid right down from the 81st floor to the
80th because of all that sheetrock and ceiling tiles that was on there, we tried to walk but
we actually slid down and we landed somewhere on the 80th floor" (OUT 6:23:45:18)

(IN 7:07:32:08) "We got to a point, coming down where we had to go around, we saw a
re-entry sign and we walked around a little corridor and we gained back access to the
steps going down" (OUT 7:07:45:04)

(IN 7:08:30:09) "While we were coming down, in the internal staircase to my


knowledge, there was no announcement, there was nobody directing for the re-entry sign,
either security or anything, to go straight down, there was nobody there and there was no
announcement in the staircase to my knowledge" (OUT 7:08:44:18)

(IN 7:03:28:04) "But when the plane hit, the floor that I was on, there was no intercom
system, I couldn't have heard anything, when I got out of the building (means to say "off
floor") eventually back into the staircase, I did not hear anything. I did not know which
way to go." (OUT 7:03:45:02)

don't want quote about security guard who stays with injured man?

Just in case, this is Jose story; think it's a more sensitive description than Brian's
[(EN 6:26:07:02) "The only person we saw was one fine gentleman, (a co-worker of
Brian we were briefly introduced he had a pair of walkie-talkie and he was going up to
rescue somebody) poor man never made it out" (OUT 6:26:24:17)]

Collapse
(OUT 6:28:28:07) "As we were running out, these good men in uniform, they're running
back in to their deaths, and these men are dying so we could live but they're directing us
to go... (running towards Liberty, broken glass coming down like confetti, not one piece
is hitting us, go to trinity church, gives Brian business card; bumps into priest, babbling
in language Brian don't understand, needs hospital, needs church, lay hands, go to trinity
church; watching building, I said this building is going, BC says all draperies etc burning,
I'm an engineer and steel don't bend, later says why did I doubt you, watching,
mesmerized... like a scene from a horror movie, the building starts to sway, all the way
one side, all the way the other side, at one point we thought it was going to tip over...)
and the building starts to implode" (OUT 6:30:29:27)

(IN 7:05:43:03) "But nobody stopped to ask me, to my knowledge, to ask Brian and I
what floor we came from where we were gong..." (OUT 7:05:49:08)

(IN 7:09:13:06) "The people who were there who sent us back... they were not there"
(OUT 7:09:19:00)