The idea of killing them, it's the, I would, I would argue, is, is, doesn't come easily It's,

it's, it's difficult to think. It's a difficult point, actually. [COUGH] To think and and also to do. Now antisemitic moments came to be associated with economic crisis. There was a doctor and a great scandal connected with the French involvement of the building of the Panama Canal in which thousands of people lost their investment. And of course there were the Jews not surprisingly since this is where Jews are to be found. And consequently popular anti-semitism emerged, and some people argue, though [INAUDIBLE] cannot be decided. That if you knew what was to happen you would have chosen France as the, the the, the background for the Holocaust rather than Germany. Whether this is fair to the French or not, I don't think [INAUDIBLE].[UNKNOWN] and then came the great Dreyfus Affair. I imagine most of you have heard about it and know. there are several films made about it. the, the situation is very simple. Jewish French, French officer was arrested and accused of treason passing on information to France, it's the great enemy to the Germans. Now what is actually remarkable about this is that there were Jewish officers the officer of court in 19th century Europe is regarded as the bastion of the aristocracy, and it is a, it is an example of a huge that a Jew could be an officer in the French army.And Jews actually were members of the French cabinet and of course, how they made great contributions to science. The And Jews actually were members of the French cabinet and of course, how they made great contributions to science. The And Jews actually were members of the French cabinet and of course, how they made great contributions to science. The Literature, and, and, and what have you, given the small size of the ranch you were in. Their cultural and social, political achievements are extraordinary. I mean in a, in a country which I think what, something like 40 million people, and there by the end of the century there were, I don't know 60 and 80,000 Jews. I mean, this is a really a time of proportion. It's a much smaller proportion than would be the case in Germany, where if they got one person [INAUDIBLE]. But in France it was much less than 1% of the population. And yet the Jews were visible. And so what happened at the in case of of the Dreyfus affair. Well first of all, it's, it's relevant to point out that Jews as a community very much did not want to be noticed. And actually there was some hesitation on their part to come out in defense of [INAUDIBLE]. They wanted to show that we are just like anybody else. And actually they were for example considerably disturbed. That towards the end of the century was something like 20, 25 thousand Jewish immigrants from Russian Empire. Who left Russia as a result of the pogroms. And the French to [INAUDIBLE] this rather disturbing. On the one hand, they had an obligation to to care of their fellow Jews. On the other hand [INAUDIBLE] If this book had differed in language they did not have the degree of a culture age in which they are. And consequently the, the well-established French-Jewish leadership were concerned that the, the French will associate them with their eastern core religion and their, and their will contribute to antisemitism. Was each in the plan look different and your foreign of course, and, and [INAUDIBLE]. So the, the Dreyfuss effect, the Dreyfuss scale is [INAUDIBLE] became really, it did not create the division in French society and, and politics, because the division had been there before, but, it crystallized the division. One half of a educated friends. So what I was saying is that a is that the affair did not divide french public opinion because it was already divide, because it crystallizes that division. But as you can say ,as you can see in this on the one hand there are triumphs of the decor fans, because as against considerable oppositions,justice prevailed Dreyfus was found innocent and as, as, as he, he was. And the guilty person, someone

I think name of Esterhazy was actually found who really passed on the information to, to the Germans. Yes but remember it took, Dreyfus was convicted at first they had a public ceremony leading to a sward and all sorts of people screaming death to the Jews. And the impact on Hertzle. That was a what somebody wrote it a book under the title The Anti-Semetic Moment in 19th century France. And and indeed so it was. And as Murray mentioned this had something to do, very much to do with the creation of modern Zionism because Hansel decided that [UNKNOWN] saw that there is no possibility of general integration into into modern Europe. >> society and, and so the desire to establish a separate Jewish state. >> Well I would emphasize what Peter just talked about, which is that the 19th century with industrial civilization and modern civilization Is the beginning of the experiment where citizenship means that all kinds of people can work together and use their talents for the common good. And its the rise of society and the secular nations they. And by, the Dreyfus affair, there's a great sense that maybe it doesn't work. If you look at each other, you see that you're all wearing the same clothes, there's no difference in how you dress. You were all expecting to use your talents for getting ahead personally and therefore for the common good. And we have all sorts of issues today that echo the kinds of crisis that Peter has talked about when the question is Can the other, capital O right. Can the Others become part of a larger society working together, or should we sequester them. Should we separate them? Should we throw them out? Should we profile them or is it all one happy melting pot or a mosaic, it's now called today. >> So a, a let me say just a few words. about Germany. Germany had the largest and most significant tour in Western Europe. Larger, as I mentioned by the time of Hitler The 500,000 Jews maybe the one percent of the population. The difference was that after 1870 [UNKNOWN] declined and the Germany liberalism was less strong than it was in France. And Jews everywhere came to be connected with liberality. The liberal parties became the Jewish parties and consequentily in that sence the jews were On the other hand while France was a dynamic. Germany was much more so. That is that Germany gave even greater opportunities for the Jews in economics in coulture. in every aspect of national eye to distinguish themselves, and consequently the German jury and the ideas current within the German jury had enormous influence, not os much in western Europe but in eastern Europe... the, the intellectual currents that came out of Germany. And another thing the rise of socialism. In which Jews had the especially great role to play. German in particular, but the rest of Europe also. How can one explain this? the way it was that the way to which [INAUDIBLE] I suppose is that the, the leadership of the socialist movement. [UNKNOWN] in Europe, came out of the [UNKNOWN] of the Intelligentsia, in which Jews were disproportionate there. And arguably the, the very ruthlessness of Jews contributed to it, namely Marxism [INAUDIBLE] because it is a [UNKNOWN]. Marxism offered an avenue out of Antisemitism. That is Marxism, socialism, communism promised rising above national nationalist prejudices. And socialism, communism, offered a solution to some, whether it was legal or not is another matter. a solution to their problems. And so consequently you could be an anti-semite, because you were concerned about Jewish exploiters, capitalists, bankers. >> And you could be an anti-Semite because you objected to uh, [COUGH] the [INAUDIBLE]. Well of course most Jews were not socialist, and most socialists were not Jews. Nonetheless, this equation of communism-socialism roles as their roles in history, and it will be decisive in our understanding of the success of Hitler. So, let me stop here. This is enough for one day. >> May I add something? What theator has done is try to give us a quick look at the historical conditions that lead to emansipation and is focused on france and

germany. Now, if you think about emancipation in the American context, remember the Emancipation Proclamation is 1863. The Russians emancipate the surfs in 1862. >> 1961 febuary 9th 61 okay. [LAUGH] But that's the old calander. So the hole notion of citizenship. Is a 19th Century notion that everyone can become a citizen. And you know in your experience that this doesn't take care of all sorts of personal grudges. Personal disagreement or dislikes so under Peter's brief account there's psychological turmoil, or to put it in another way. Do you really love your room mate? [LAUGH] So the whole question of citizenship involves the notion that one can manage the social, political, cultural, economic under currents. That traditional society had done by grouping people. It hadn't taken care of all that but we have a psychological cauldron if you will. And he is a master phycologist. [LAUGH] Of social forces, so what does it mean that Dryfus has a public humiliation as a traitor... >> Though he was a Jewish officer, right, death to the Jews. >> So this means that Theodore Hurtzel, a brilliant young journalist who is covering the trial for a German newspaper [INAUDIBLE] [LAUGH], right? Part of European opened this. Now he's in France covering the trial for a German newspaper. Somebody who's a cosmopolitan, because he's Hungarian but he knows French and he writes in German, right. Says this experiment has failed. Integration of whatever kind doesn't work. Now we've seen this in the history of many cultures in the West and in the East. >> But this becomes then the launch into something much nastier than is happened else where what i wanted to emphasize with that it is not an accident that the great age of the European jury and the holocaust coincides. That these are two opposite sides of the same coin. >> But I want to go further. I want to argue that the great age of modern industrial civilization That happens with the French Revolution, with industrial society. Leads to something with the Holocaust that transforms it. There is a huge. >> Revulsion, from the notion, for example, that things are always going to get better with industrial modern society. >> It does, actually. >> [LAUGH] But it also leads to Mass murder. >> [LAUGH] We have a question. >> I just want to point out, Angela Merkel said the same thing last year, at the experiment in Germany of the [INAUDIBLE] failed. >> Repeat the question. >> Well, it wasn't a question [INAUDIBLE] Repeat. >> he said that Angela Merkel, Merkel said the same. maybe the idea of [INAUDIBLE] and of occurs referring to a very different situation, namely Muslim Germany with its Turkish Arab subculture this is all, again, it's a very important issue which I, I don't know. >> The namely, the comparatively genocides and I, I resist this notion, I resist this notion because the misery factor compared to the rioting have different sources and, and different reasons. That is the [UNKNOWN] that life is miserable and they've been mistreated. And they were murdered by the Nazis. >> The [UNKNOWN] the gypsies. >> The [UNKNOWN] the gypsies. and the act that These are apples and oranges. That is you may know what is the, the, what do you call the, the ancients of the island. It is I will talk about it next time. It's a, it's a fabrication that shows that you've gone up there. [INAUDIBLE]. It would be inconceivable that someone would come up with the protocols of the ancients of the gypsies. It makes no sense. These are, these are different wickednesses But I want to point out that as you look at each other and learn to love your room mate that the experiament in diversity is yours. We are living that kind of question today, and all sorts of thing that we hear about every day in turn political life is all about that and yes the whole notion of the experiment in diversity means that there are all sorts of frictions all sorts of uhappinesses or all sorts of problems, maybe we would be better off without it. On the other hand, he says it's a good thing. >> It is a good thing. >> [LAUGH] Thank you. Onto Monday. Read Dry Tears.