How to calculate the trim exit flow velocity for different conditions of minimum, normal and maximum flows

in a globe valve? Is there a software available for this.

December 29, 2011

MaNoJ

MaNoJ N. It usually depends on the pressure drop happening across the valve. More the pressure drop, more the trim Exit velocity. PS: The above comment is valid only when you use Standard trim without any obstruction. If we use a cage or put a plate at downstream , whole thing will change. If you need more information, please don't hesitate to contact me on this regards.
8 months ago

Ajoy

Ajoy N. Trim exit velocity is a mythological character that has "dragged" its way into the control valve terminology, thanks to some wonderful marketing done by some Control Valve manufacturers. I believe that we should not intellectualise something that is not measurable physically and only derivable emperically Vena contracta Pressure. Pvc = Rc * Pv. ; Where Rc Critical Pressure Ratio of fluid , defined as , Rc = 0.96 0.28 * Pv / Pc, this in turn can be used valve sensitivity to cavitate Pressure drop assessment and classifying the capability of the trim based on pressure drop ratio factors rather than trim exit velocity would be a more appropriate and practical approach
8 months ago

Andrew

Andrew N. Asim, The ISA publish a Control Valve Handbook which has a paragraph on severe service applications. This paragraph discusses in detail trim exit velocity for liquids and velocity heads (kinetic energy) for gas/steam. It also has a table giving maximum recommended velocities/velocity heads. My experience tells me that uncontrolled control valve trim exit velocities leads to various control valve problems such as noise, vibration, erosion, cavitation, etc. If you would like to discuss in more detail please let me know.
8 months ago

Ajoy

Ajoy N. I would like to hear from you a possible way of measuring and verifying the trim exit velocity during inspection, s since the same has to be verified by some means. It makes sense to specify what is measurable only AJOY NAIR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR BONETTI WAAREE INDIA (P) LTD, * 1st Floor, Vindhya Commercial Premises C-op. Society Ltd., Plot No. 1, Sector -11, CBD Belapur, Navi Mumbai-400 614, Maharashtra, India Landline: +91-22-41236765 | Mobile: +91- 9321321754| Website: www.cesare-bonetti.it <http://www.cesare-bonetti.it>
8 months ago

MaNoJ

MaNoJ N. WOw!! was waiting to get my hands free & comment back on this topic. From they day i have joined this field, am trying to figure out the truth. There are many facts behind trim exit velocity, from which few are true & few are used to get into the market & sell the products. it depends case to case & the best person who can tell this will be, who is been facing such issues in plant, where valves which are having high pressure drops & have been changed again n again using different products & finally would have got something good which might have solved his problem. Velocity do play a very vital role, let me ask a question... How many of you have smashed the TT ball across the table & got hit seriously? okay anyone imagined, if its Golf ball coming towards you with same velocity.. well that will damage your parts for sure... :) So density also play a role... After many tests & result's it's been suggested to use the valve with in limits of given trim exit velocity. ( 2330 m/s) for liquids, for gas its termed as Energy.(480 kpa) As i said, this above mentioned terminology is been used in wrong way's. If your trim is strong enough & stellited, most of the case's it won't create any problem, even the trim exit velocity is high, people use to concentrate on pipe exit velocity, which indirectly helps to calculate & tell us, whether it will erode the outlet pipe's.

What i have understood is different manufacturer use different method's to sell the product, in the end they are doing the same thing. To limit the exit velocity or to limit the cavitation or noise We bring some obstruction's in between, some use drag trim, some drilled hole cage, few multi-step plug. All work for the same phenomena to create some obstruction & reduce the velocity of the fluid. Let me give you an another Example, will sound funny but will help a bit to understand. * Okay take a car on straight clear road, drive at 100Km/hr push the clutch & see how far you are going to goo. * Use same phenomena & drive it in a zig zag road, your velocity will go down each turns * Same speed 100 km/hr press clutch...this time you have 5-6 ramps ahead. Each time you jump , your speed will go down. Well most of you might have realized what exactly am trying to say.... Cond 1: is Std trim without any obstruction, you will have velocity & depends case to cae, what type fluid is passing & the pressure drop Cond 2: Using a multistage disk, multistep plug, which will reduce the velocity of fluid at each stage. Cond 3: is like a drilled hole cage, each time it jumps out of the hole you will release some kinetic energy & your velocity will go down. This discussion is never going to end, till we really analyze the flow parameter's & size the valve's correctly, supplying the best product to the user. Well i never thought, i will write this much on this topic.. :) good day all!!
8 months ago

Ajoy

Ajoy N. In your car, you have the speedometer to measure speed (a scalar), please tell me a means to similarly measure exit velocity ( a more complicated vector). I totally agree that velocity has a big role to play when it comes to conserving the integrity of the trim in severe cavitating environments and all methods like turns, combinations, splitting, radial flows, axial flows, staging contributes to this holy role of staging pressure drops . My question is Is it measurable?, can we specify and verify something that is not measurable? In case it is measurable, I would wish to know how this can be covered during inspection (like showing him the car speed on the speedometer) Seek some comments from the control valve fraternity

AJOY NAIR
8 months ago

MaNoJ

MaNoJ N. I completely agree with you..its hard measure these things... But in valve terminology most of character's are like this only. All of us know the term Cv. its also complicated you can't measure it, but we are following it. If you want to measure it during inspection, none of us is going to take a effort or spend money for that purpose. Yes we can measure it, you have create such situation in the valve, i meant the flow ,& mantain the inlet & outlet pressure for which you want to calculate & conduct CFD analysis, which may show you graphs' & can be interpreted back , how much velocity exist at different pressure drops. If customer is going test each valve performance on this basis, he will end up with cost of buying 5-6 valve's at same price. ( i don't know the exact value). These trim's & valve's have been already tested by manufacturer, during the design stage & have been in live line to see what all problem they may face , rectifying it & re-design. Me or you can't deny this by just telling its un measurable & not worth it. End user may think, they are selling this metal crap for such a high price. Infact they are just back charging us the cost they invested while design & testing with operation cost , when totaled is pretty higher than a normal valve.
8 months ago

Jacques

Jacques C. The trim outlet velocity is depending upon the diameter of the vena contracta (related to the valve geometry) and pressure at the vena contracta; this is quite difficult to calculate. However, I will ask a question : once calculated, what are you going to do with this number ?
6 months ago

"Hamid

"Hamid K. I agree with Jacques comments. In reality the velocity does play a vital role in damaging the pipelines, creating the high vibration / noise; especially in gaseous service conditions. Good manufacturers does include calcuated value of exit velocities of a control valve. Checking the number value of velocities either in mac number in gas or ft/sec for liquids is just to know that the service conditions may be damaging to the equipment / piping / downstream equipment or not.

Exit velocity beyond the safe measured limits may acts like a bullet leaving the gun @ of either from 1800 ft/sec to 4000 ft/sec does not damage the barrel but it damages the downstream where it hits.
6 months ago

MaNoJ

MaNoJ N. I agree Hamid for few points... But trim velocity do play a vital role, when it come's to sever service... In Liquid's if the trim exit velocity is very high, which usually occurs at the vena contract, due to this high velocity.. the pressure at that point's goes below the vapour pressure forming bubbles & due to quick recovery while exit from the trim the pressure will again go up causing cavitation. In gases.. phenomena is different, first it depends on the flow direction, its recomended to have Flow to open also called flow under design in gases, where we have chances to witness high pressure drop. This sudden pressure drop, will release lot's of energy in the system & make the plug vibrate, if the valve is not designed proper, it will may break the stem of the plug & may cause lots of noise.
4 months ago

Plast-O-Matic Valves

Plast-O-Matic Valves I. Dear Assim: We are a premium thermoplastic valves manufacturing since 1967 located in New Jersey, USA. We will be happy to have an engineer answering your question. Please send us an email at ifernandez@plastomatic.com. In the meantime, please take a look at our website www.plastomatic.com and our corporate video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Kb3wV6HWelU Hope to hear from you soon. Ingrid