Robert Carr Memorial Lecture:

Getting to Zero Bullshit: Calling HIV-related Stigma what it is: Racism, Classism, Misogyny,
Homophobia, Elitism
July 25th, 2012
Speech by Cheryl Overs: The layering of discrimination and stigma that sex workers face as
men, women and transgenders, parents, workers and citizens.
Over the years Ive spoken at dozens of sessions at International Aids Conferences (both invited
and uninvited) but I have never talked about myself or my own experience. I decided to change
that when I was asked to speak at the session remembering Robert Carr - and to risk of crying in
public. I deal very, very badly with bereavement.
I wanted to pay a very particular tribute to Robert who uniquely supported me through the
bullshit of stigma and discrimination in my own life. Not the stigma and discrimination that is
written and talked about throughout the AIDS industry that happens out thereto 'vulnerable
people but the stigma and discrimination within the AIDS industry that affects every person
who comes to HIV work as a member of a key population. We all know that we are
permanently vulnerable to it and yet it is so hard to speak about. You dont know where or it
will happen, you just know that it can. Sometimes it is blatant but often it is subtle. Frequently
it comes as rumour and false allegations or just being frozen out. It happens whether you are
an unpaid outreach worker in a small town in a poor country or an educated white gay man
working for the UN or the Global Fund. It happened to gay Australian High Court Judge Michael
Kirby who was falsely accused of hiring rent boys. I have never spoken about this with him but I
imagine that even if the accusation had never been made he always lived with the knowledge
that it could be. When it happened to me Robert was a tower of strength.
I was subject to terrible personal and institutional abuse within an HIV organisation but
although stigma, discrimination and abuse is the theme of all of my work I wasn't able to
process it, even after of decades of living with it. I thought that while sex workers are in filthy
exploitative conditions earning barely enough to eat and gay men are being murdered (add
many etceteras) my own experience didnt count. To raise it would be self-pitying, part of the
sickening narrative of the white mans burden. I even felt that even when I was refused entry to
the US which was a terrifying and humiliating trauma. As bad border experiences go, how can I
complain ?
But Robert had none of this. He told me what I already know (always the best starting point) that hatred and abuse of poor people, drug users, racial minorities, sex workers, gays etc is all
linked. He talked about the counter productiveness of victim hierarchies. He helped me place
and accept myself when I most needed support. He illustrated his points, not with
psychobabble aimed at making me feel better, but with his lived experience and his analysis of
the dynamics of power and oppression. He cited Friere and Foucault, teaching me that the
oppressors have really won when we internalise oppression which I was doing by denying to

myself the impact of stigma, abuse and discrimination in my life. He enabled me to own my
experience and therefore move on. So for me Robert was a great friend and a great counsellor
and a brilliant teacher. Unfortunately he was never able to teach me how to be graceful and
dignified as he was in the face of bullshit. Meeting Roberts dad after the session made me
think that maybe that is inherited not taught.
I have great memories of good times with Robert. I am so glad I got to eat roti with him at his
favorite place in Trinidad. Laughing in London. Some that cant be mentioned. I miss him
terribly and remember him with lots of smiles and love as well as the gratitude for his truly
empowering support and I break the silence in his memory.
Post Script : After the session I was surprised by how many people came to tell me they have
had similar struggles with discrimination within HIV/AIDS NGOs and had difficulty recognising
that particular form of bullshit and dealing with its consequences.

-----------------------------------------Cheryl Overs works at the Michael Kirby Centre for Health and Human Rights, Monash
University School of Epidemiology and Preventive Medicine in Australia. Cheryl is founder of
the Global Network of Sex Work Projects and a member of the Technical Advisory Group of the
Global Commission on HIV and the Law.