Jaycee Dugard's Grand Jury Testimony Transcript

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CRIMINAL
GRAND JURY PROCEEDINGS
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IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF EL DORADO
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THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, Plaintiff, vs. PHILLIP CRAIG GARRIDO and NANCY GARRIDO, No. PI0CRF0364
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______________________________________ 1
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Defendants.
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 FOR THE PEOPLE: REPORTER'S
EXCERPT TRANSCRIPT SEPTEMBER
OF PROCEEDINGS
21, 2010
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A P PEA
RAN
CES
VERN R. PIERSON, District Attorney JOE ALEXANDER, Deputy JAMES CLINCHARD, Deputy El Dorado County 515 Main Street Placerville, California 95667
CYNTHIA J. ELLERING, CRR, CSR State License Number 9190
CYNTHIA
J. ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
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.0:46AM
(Dr. Doe), I'm going to ask you to stand and raise your right hand. GRAND JUROR GR12 (Grand Juror GR12) . Grand jury proceedings be discussed proceedings. influence are confidential and may not
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with anyone not in attendance You are admonished in any way. Yes, I do.
at the sway, or
not to prompt,
the witness
(DR. DOE): MR. PIERSON:
0:47AM
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Would you state your name. Yes. I'm Dr.
(DR. DOE): (Dr. Doe). MR. PIERSON: And,
(Dr. Doe), for purposes
of the grand jury and the record, you are here as a support person at the request of (DR. DOE): THE COURT: THE WITNESS: MR. PIERSON: Yes, I am. (Jane Doe)?
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That is your request? Yes, it is. We kept you waiting for a little bit
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while we were reading the instructions. TESTIMONY OF JANE DOE a witness called by the People, having been first duly as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. PIERSON: Q. I'm going to start with asking you -- first off,
sworn, testifies
what's your date of birth? 47 CYNTHIA J. ELLERING, CRR, CSR (530) 621-7412
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A. Q.
May 3rd, 1980. And I'll ask you to go back to June of 1991. Can you
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.0: 48AM
tell us where you were living at that time?

A.
I was living in South Lake Tahoe on Washoan house.
in a
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four-bedroom Q. A.
And who were you living with? I was living with my mom, my stepdad, and my little
sister, who was one.

Q. A.
What's
your mother's
name?
0:48AM
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Terry Probyn. What was your stepdad's Carl Probyn. Your sister was also living there. And you said she name?
Q.
A. Q.
was one at the time?
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A.
Q.
Urn-hum. What is her name? (Jane Doe 4). Do you recall that you were going to school at that
A.
Q.
time? A.
Q.
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Yep. Okay.
Yes. And it was -- I'm going to ask you about, the date of June 10th, 1991. Is that the last
specifically,
week of school?
A.
Urn, yeah.
I think so.
There was a field trip coming
0: 48AM
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up, so ...
Q.
I'm going to ask you specifically June 10th.
about the morning,
Monday morning,
Do you recall leaving your house
to walk to school? 48 CYNTHIA J. ELLERING, CRR, CSR (530) 621-7412
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0: 49AM
A. house. didn't
Yeah.
I left the house -- made breakfast,
left the
I
I think my stepdad,
Carl, was in the garage.
see him, but I just yelled that I'm leaving and (Jane Doe 4) in the house sleeping. to
1IIIIIIII
Q.
a --
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You were going to school, but were you walking
A.
Bus stop.
I was walking
to the bus stop.
It's up
the hill, and I just walked every morning

Q.
up the hill.
The same path, normal routine that you followed? Yeah. And approximately what time was it? It was a long
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10
A.
Q.
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o
A.
I don't remember what time it was.
time ago, but I think I left -- I got up at 6:45, and I think I had, like, maybe 45 minutes. Q. A. Q. So 7 something.
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It was the normal time when you would go to school? Yeah. Okay. It was the time that I usually left. I know
Now, I'm going to ask you -- because around and you're nervous.
you've been waiting breath and relax.
Take a deep
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Would you prefer, if I was to call you Are you comfortable A. Q. That's
for this purpose
of this hearing,
III (Jane
with that?
Doe), call you by that name?
fine, yeah. Doe), so you left for school. do. You're
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0:50AM
III (Jane
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leaving just like you normally the house.
You're walking out of is the school
About how far, if you remember,
bus that you would walk to that morning? A. Like in miles or ...
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CYNTHIA
J. ELLERING,
eRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
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.0: 50AM
Q.
Well, about how long does it take you to walk there,
distance?
A. Q.
Oh, I'd say about ten minutes. Okay. And so after you left -- you walked out of the Can you describe to us, in
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house, and you were walking. your own words, what happened?
A.
I left the house.
I called to Carl that I'm leaving.
I walk up about -- not halfway but just to where I usually cross the street, because face the oncoming Carl has taught me that I want to So he says that I
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traffic down the hill.
should cross about here so that I can see what's coming up the hill. So that's what I did at the usual time that I did it. And then I got about -- almost to the bend. There's a bend And
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in the hill that goes -- that bends up to the bus stop. so I got about halfway me.
there, and this car comes up behind
And I didn't think it was weird at the time, but it in close to me. because And I thought he was going he started to say something.
kind of pulled
to ask for directions
0:51AM
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Q. A.
And all of a sudden, his hand shoots out of the car and I feel this shock. into the bushes. That's all right. And I stumble back into
And -- sorry ... Take your time. I'm
He gets out, and I stumble back into the bushes.
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sitting now in the bushes,
trying to back away, but I feel work. It was tingly, and I'm in the car,
like my whole body is -- wouldn't I can't -- nothing works. and there's something
All of a sudden,
on top of me, and I feel like there's 50
CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
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3
pressure
Q. A.
on me.
And I'm in the car. was from?
Could you tell what the pressure No. It just -- it felt moving
so -- you know, it
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felt like a body, you know.

Q.
A.
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Like a person? Yeah, like a person. Legs. But there was something or something, because it
on top of me, too, like a blanket was really hot.

Q.
I was getting
really hot. On the
And in the car, were you laying on the seat?
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floorboard?
A.
On the floorboard.
I was put on the floorboard
and
then something face down.
thrown on top of me, and then legs, pressure, after that because I
I don't know what happened I don't remember
think I -- because
the car pulling
away, or
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I felt like I blacked

Q.
out or something.
Did it seem like you went on a -I did loose control of my bladder. I felt
A.
embarrassed,
Q.
and then I was in the car, so ... -- was that right away or was
And that was sometime
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that sometime
A.
during the trip in the car?
Well, I felt wet, so that was in the car that I felt But I didn't know why. My limbs felt tingly still,
wet.
and just everything

Q.
was jumbled.
I'm going to show you -- I'm going to start by that's been marked the person
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showing you what's been -- a photograph as Exhibit Number
1 and ask you do you recognize
in that photograph? A. That's me. 51 CYNTHIA

J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
Q.
So as I -- what I'm going to do is I'm just going to the jurors so you can each look at them, -- primarily, I but
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pass these amongst
and if you need to look at it for a moment want to continue on with the questioning
of the witness,
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you can look at them and then just pass them along. You indicated 1991?
A. Q.
that's you, and that's you back in
Yes.
That was a school photo. said your date of birth. You turned -We're talking
You already
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about June 10th, 1991.

A. Q.
I was 11. You were 11. You turned 11 about a month prior to
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this happening?
A. Q.
Yeah. I'm going to show you Number 2. Do you recognize the
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area in that aerial photograph?

A. Q.
Yeah.
That's where I lived.
And that's In Tahoe. That's an aerial photograph looking down on the for us?
A.
Q.
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street that you were just describing

A. Q. A. Q.
Yeah. And it has on it, just to -The hill I walked. The hill that you walked. And it's a -- it's listed which is in
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as 1090 Washoan, EI Dorado County. A. Yes.
South Lake Tahoe, California, Correct?
52 CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
Q.
And where there was a red mark, that's about the location?
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approximate A. Q.
That was my house. And the area that you described walking up would have
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been from the approximate in the road. There's
area of the house up to the curve and there's
two -- there's Apalachee,
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A. Q.
Nadowa
Street. in reference to those streets, the
Can you describe, location
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approximate A. Q.
where it was that this happened? Street.
Right here, right at the corner of Nadowa
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On the -- the corner that would be farthest away from
where you were walking? A. Q. Yes. And then you described that there is a curve, and
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it's a slight bend to the right? A. Q. Yeah. A slight bend. up the hill, you said that you
Now, as you're walking because
started out direction
the house would be -- in the it's on the right side, and then
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you're traveling,
you cross over to the left side, and you're walking along the left side? A. Q. Yes. And go back to the point in time when the car comes Were you -- how close to the edge of the
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over towards you.
road were you when the car came over? A. Urn, I was pretty close. I was on the gravel, but I
wasn't on the road.
I was on -- there was gravel right 53
CYNTHIA
J. ELLERING,
eRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
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0:57AM
there.
Q.
To the left side? To the left side and bushes to my left side. So
A.
pretty close to the street but not on the street. Q. And you said the car comes over. Is the car -- do
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you recall how fast it was driving the first time you saw it? A. It was -- it seemed like it was really slow. I don't
remember what I was thinking
but, you know -- and then it And it happened really fast,
0:57AM
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was all of a sudden beside me. but I don't believe pretty slow because
the car was going fast.
I think it was
it kind of, like, creeped up on me. know anything was back
Like, I didn't really hear anything, there. Q. But you said a moment
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ago that you -- the person in
the car said something A. Yeah. Yeah.
or started to say something?
I kind of -- you know, you know when is beside you and you kind of turn? And
you know something
I could see this -- I mean, but somebody,
I didn't really get a good look,
0:58AM
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you know, kind of -- a voice saying something you know, "Do you know where" -- and then,
about directions,
all of a sudden, his hand shoots out and I feel tingly and like losing control, back, and somebody
Q.
and I'm in the bushes, me.
trying to go
is dragging
.0:58AM
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Did you see how many people were in the car? I saw one, the driver. And that was But I didn't look back. 54 CYNTHIA J. ELLERING, CRR, CSR (530) 621-7412
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A. Q. A.
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Q. A. Q.
Was it a man or a woman that was the driver? It was a man. And did you describe on top of you? A blanket or something. And then feet or being In the car and feeling
something A. legs. Q. A. Q. car? A. Q. A.
Yeah.
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And just to be clear, the car is moving. Um-hum. And so, obviously, somebody
Right?
had to be driving the
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Yeah. And then there was a second person? There had to be because -- yeah. I could feel the around.
pressure. Something Q.
A.
Q.
I could feel legs moving, was there .
switching
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And you were in the back seat? Yeah. On the floorboard? Yeah. On the floorboard. in the car?
A. Q. A. Q.
.0:59AM
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So there had to be at least two people Yeah.
Did you ever -- do you recall, during the time while in the car? I
you were in the car, seeing a second person A. No.
But I could hear a voice some time later.
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don't know when. the pressure
The man in the front -- all of a sudden,
was off, like I woke up, and I could hear the into the front seat,
car door slam like someone was getting the passenger side. And the person
that took me was, like,

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CYNTHIA
J. ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3 4
.1:00AM
handing me something drink?"
to -- said, "Do you want something
to
And I heard voices
in the front, and the man said,
"I can't believe we got away with it," and he started laughing. And then some mumbling. sound manly, Q.
A.
It sounded
like -- it didn't
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so I'm -- my instinct
is it was a woman.
And how long did the car ride go on from that point? It seemed like forever. I kept on it was really, on top of me. He
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.1:00AM
really hot, and there was still something put something
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back on top of me after he offered me the Then it was really hot. So
drink, which I didn't want.
it's kind of like I was blacking how long it was.

Q.
out, and I don't remember
Did it seem like it was a significant It seemed like forever. And what happened Yeah. And can you tell us -- describe -- eventually
period of time?
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A.
Q.
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the car stops?
A.
Q.
for us what happened
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.1:01AM
at the point when the car stops.

A.
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The car stops, and I think he -- well, I know I could The door slammed shut and like
hear, like, the car stopped. squeaking
of a gate or something. well, he put the blanket
And then he's telling me
back over me, and he said I had to be really quiet and there was dogs patrolling Dobermans anything, the area. He had -- he said he had
.1:01AM
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and that if I was to run or, you know, try to do that they would come after me. tell where we were 56
And so he walked me -- I couldn't
CYNTHIA
J. ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
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***** Page 57 through Page 58 were removed by Court order. *****
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CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR,
CSR
(530) 621-7412
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.1: 06AM
know what he was doing. Q. Okay. Let me stop you there again. A moment ago you
said that -- and, you know, I know that I talked to you a little bit about this ahead of time. I ask are obviously ask them anyway. Were you afraid of him from the -- you keep referring to somebody moment. Were you afraid of him from the moment started? A. I was very scared. I didn't know who he was. I this all as "him," and we'll clarify who that is in a Some of the questions
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-- they may seem obvious, but I need to
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didn't know why he was doing this. home. I think in the bathroom
I just wanted to go
I kept telling him that, you If you're
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know, "I don't know why you're doing this.
holding me for ransom, my family doesn't have a lot of money." I didn't know -- I didn't before. know his purpose. They were usually I've for money.
heard about kidnapping Q.
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But during that entire time, you were -- as you you were afraid of him?
indicated, A. Q. A. Q.
Very scared. And -I just wanted to go home. Let me show you what's marked 3. Do you recognize as Number 3 and 4 .
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.1:07AM
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First, Number exhibit? A.
the person that's in this
That's him. 59 CYNTHIA J. ELLERING, CRR, CSR (530) 621-7412
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.1: 07AM
Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Number
That's the person Yeah.
you're referring
to as "him"?
That's the man who took me.
And his name is Phil Garrido? Yes. He's known to you as Phil Garrido? Yes. Now, I'm going to show you another 4. And this says -- it's entitled of Motor Vehicles," one that's "California the
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1:07AM
Department person A. Q.
and do you recognize
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in that photograph? That's Phillip. the picture was taken some
And that's -- obviously,
years ago?
A.
Q.
Um-hum. And this

lS
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the -- and both of those exhibits, to as him.
that's
the same person
you referred
And that's fine, as As long
long as we can continue as
to refer to him that way.
A.
I didn't
know who he was in the beginning.
You know,
.1: 08AM
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I didn't know his name or anything . Q. Well, and the next thing I was going to ask you, did
he ever tell you -- early on in this first, you know, several hours, did he tell you what his name was?
A.
No.
He never told me his name.
It was some time
.1:08AM
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later that I learned it .
Q.
Did he ever tell you why he -- you know, you were afraid and not knowing why. You
saying you were obviously
told him your family doesn't have money.
Did he tell you 60
CYNTHIA
J. ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3
4
.1: 09AM
why he had taken you?

A.
No.
He didn't
say much in the beginning.
I remember
very quiet, just telling me what to do.

Q.
About the dogs.
To stay away from the dogs? Yeah. Were you afraid of the dogs, also? I didn't know where they were. I didn't So I was afraid to do
A.
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.1: 09AM
Q.
A.
anything.
Q.
know what he would do, either.
But he told you to be -- that you should be afraid of
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the dogs?
A.
Yes. Just specifically, what do you recall him saying
Q.
about the dogs?

A.
That they were very territorial,
and if they found know, that they
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anybody on their property would attack.

Q.
that they didn't
Now, so was there anybody
else around during the time
period that you described

A.
other than --
Not that I saw. Just want to be clear for the record. Not in the house. There was somebody I didn't see anybody driving? There was -in the house.
1:09AM
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23
Q.
A. Q. A.
Q.
Then there was a passenger. There was a passenger. But you didn't see that
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.1:09AM
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person?
A.
Q.
No.
I was on the floorboard.
And when you get out of the car at the house -It was only him. 61 CYNTHIA
J.
A.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3 4
.1:10AM
Q. A. Q.
He's the only one there? (Witness nods head.) And after you go back on the porch, you said there's Can you go back to basically, what happened at that point? as
a couple of cats there. best as you can remember,

A.
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I was sitting on that couch for a while, petting the I don't know what for. And
cats, and he went upstairs. then he comes back down. little walk to the back. can I go home?" But he didn't
He said that we're going to take a And I asked -- I asked him, "When
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You know, my mom was going to be worried . He just said, "This is what
say anything.
we're going to do."
And he put the blanket back on me and
said that we're going to walk and that he would lead the way, and I was to hold on to him. We walked. So that's what I did.
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I could feel -- I didn't have any shoes . on but the towel. some grass. So I could feel
I didn't have anything grass.
We walked through
And then later it And I could hear
turned into, like, cement or something. this gate open and close and walked And then we were standing
some more.
I
.1: 11AM
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in front of something.
mean, I don't know, but you know when you know something near? And he opened -- I could hear the lock.
is
I could hear
a lock turn, like a click, and door open, and then I'm ushered into -- then I feel carpet. Then I'm ushered into
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25 26 27 28
the -- what felt like the back . And then when he took the blanket back of this room. I didn't off, it was the
see the first part, but the
second part was -- had a door and kind of, like, music 62 CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
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CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
this was all sealed off. building

Q.
And the first room -- this
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.1: 21AM
is where I was held. there is a
And that would be -- on this photograph, house,"
"Garrido's backyard
and then there is a side yard fence,

1S
fence, and there
a dotted line.
And then there
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.1: 22AM
is a -- what seems like a blue roof and then a white roof? A. Urn-hum. That's a shed, but this is -- this is where
I was at. Q.
The area that says -- right next to where it says Compound" is a building, and that's the building
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11
"Concealed
that you're describing A.

Q.
as you were being kept?
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Yes. I'm going to show you what's marked that. I was held in the back. It was as Number 8 and
ask you if you can identify A. That's the building back then.
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different this door.
It only had a window.
It didn't have later. It
And he put in the air conditioner at first.
didn't have any air conditioner
But this was
this had two rooms: one little room and one big one.
Q.
.1: 22AM
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The building
that the photograph
is the front of had
two
A. Q.
Yeah. Number Yeah.
This is the back of the building. 8 is the back of the building? Urn-hum. two rooms. 9 and ask you if you
A.
Q.
1:22AM
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And there's
I'm going to show you Number recognize A. that.
That's the inside. 68 CYNTHIA

J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
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CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3
A. Q.
Yeah. Okay.
It was white back then. Now, this room -- and we'll come back to it in
a moment.
And what went on in here? in Number -- this is what's in Number 12 .
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.1:25AM
I want to ask you, for a second, Number A. 12 and ask you if you recognize That's
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-- he used to have that around him when he
would go on the runs, and, um, I could hear the noise and that -- that's when I remembered how it worked. And I remember -- because he would show me
hearing
that on the day that
.1: 26AM
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11
he took me when something heard this noise. Q. A.

Q.
came out of the window, and I had
It was like a zappy noise.
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And it was a I was really scared of it. This object he showed you, and he would manipulate it
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In some way that would make what you've described noise? A.

Q.
as a zappy
Yeah. What did he call it? He called it a stun gun.
A. Q.
.1: 26AM
20 21 22 23 24
And this is -- this appears to be -- that is a obviously, marked as Number 12, but it appears seeing at -- that
photograph,
to be the same one that you recall specifically the residence down in Antioch about?
where you described
we've just been talking A. Q. Yeah .
.1: 26AM
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But going back to the day June 10th, the day that you do you in looking at this, can you say
were abducted,
that this is, for sure, the same one or just looked like it 71 CYNTHIA J. ELLERING, CRR, CSR (530) 621-7412
1 2
3 4
. 1: 27AM
or A. Q. A. Q. A. It makes the same noise. The noise that you remember Yeah. When you felt the tingly Yeah. feeling? He would have it, hearing?
5
6
And I saw it laying around.
7 8 9
.1: 27AM
like, on a table and said, you know ... Q. Did he ever -- did he ever hold it up and manipulate
it or turn it on? A. When I didn't want to do something that he wanted me
10 11 12 13 14
to do, he would -- he never used it again, but he would turn it on and say something to happen again. Q. like, you know, "You don't want it
You should be good."
Do you have any idea how many times he said something it on?
.1
.1
15 16 17 18 19
like that in terms of holding this and turning A. It wasn't very often because
I didn't -- I wanted,
you know, to -- I didn't want it to happen again, so I was good. Q. you A. Tried to do what he wanted me to do even though I You said you were good. You were good in terms of
.1:28AM
20 21 22 23 24
didn't like it. Q. Now, I want to go back to where you talked about the
first time that -- and you used the term that he raped you. Up until that point, correct? A. Q. Yes. And then from that first time, you said that he told 72 CYNTHIA J. ELLERING, CRR, CSR (530) 621-7412 you hadn't seen anybody else; is that
.1: 28AM
25 26 27 28
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28
CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
A. Q.
Um, it lasted until I got pregnant. And do you know about how much length of time went by
2 3
4
.1: 34AM
until you became pregnant?

A. Q.
Three years. So this was going on for that entire -- about once a
5 6 7 8 9
week or more?
A. Q.
Yeah. For three years is when you became pregnant had a baby? In that span of time, I finally met his wife. exactly how I found out. He probably told and you
ultimately
A.
.1: 35AM
10
11
Yeah.
I don't remember me by then.
12 13 14
1
But I don't remember
the exact moment, but I
remember when I was back in the studio room, in the little room, and he comes in with his wife and introduces her.
Q. A.
me to
15 16 17 18 19
Had he talked about her before at all? Yeah. Picking her up from work. It's hard to remember Mostly picking her
up from work.
Q.
exact conversations. as Number 5 and
Let me show you what's been marked that person.
.1: 36AM
20 21 22 23 24
ask you if you recognize

A. Q.
That's his wife, Nancy Garrido. And that's a more recent photograph Yeah.
-- than the period
A.
Q. A. Q.
that we're talking
about?
.1:36AM
25 26 27 28
Yeah .
I'm
going to show you Number
6.
Does that have a
picture of her that looks like her back in the period of time when you first met her? 76 CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2
3 4
.1: 36AM
A.
Yeah.
She did have longer hair.
She had longer
hair.
Q.
Now, so a significant
period of time goes by while and as
this is going on, these runs, the way you describe,
5 6
best as you can recall, he would come and feed you on a regular basis, but you were kept locked -A.
7
8 9
1:36AM
After that when I met Nancy,
then she started coming
in and feeding me.

Q.
The first time you had contact with her, the one you where he brought her in and said this is -- this
10 11 12 13 14
described
is his wife, Nancy? A.

Q.
Urn-hum.
"She's going to be bringing
you food."
Did you notice that he wasn't around or that he
disappeared?
A.
.1
15 16 17 18 19
That was later on when -- when I was basically room, the blue one.
living
In the room -- the next-door own bed.
I had my
Not a bed, but it was a pallet
on the floor, and couch in
they were -- they were living on the pUll-out there. So, basically, We watched we were all sleeping I didn't
.1: 37AM
20 21 22 23 24
in the same room .
TV together.
feel as lonely anymore.
For the first, like, I guess year, I was by myself mostly.

Q.
Okay. Things
Now -- and you said that for the first year -changed, I guess. the specific times, but you
A.
Q.
.1: 37AM
25 26 27 28
And it's hard to remember
described
it as being almost as long as three years that you and these runs would occur --
were fairly isolated A. Urn-hum.
77 CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
Q.
-- approximately
a week apart or more frequent.
And
2 3
4
.1: 38AM
now you just said that it was about a year that you felt less lonely? A. Yeah. Things changed. We moved he moved me in
5 6
next door where they were sleeping, the run, you know, he would, up and watch TV and movies
Q.
and we would -- after
like, go get food, and we'd sit
7 8
9
.1: 38AM
and stuff. the with
SO just so we're clear, so for approximately
first year, or a period of time that you can associate being the first year, you were largely staying in -- and it was interrupted kept alone and
10
11
with food or some
12 13 14
1
limited contact with Phil and then the runs that you described
A.
Q. A.
and the sexual assaults?
Yeah. And no other contact with anybody else? No. He did bring me a cat.
15 16 17 18 19
Q.
You had a cat inside.
When did he bring the cat?
About how long after you were taken?

A.
.1: 38AM
20 21 22 23 24
I was still in the studio room, and, you know, I And so
would tell him how lonely I was and stuff like that. he gave me a cat. It wasn't
a very -- it wasn't happy in it would pee everywhere. And so
that room, I guess, because he started

Q.
smelling
it, and he took it away.
.1:39AM
25
He took the cat away? Yeah. Did he blame you for the cat doing that? No. I don't remember him saying that. He just said
78
26 27 28
A. Q. A.
CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3 4
.1:39AM
that he can't have the cat peeing take it away.

Q.
everywhere
and he had to
And then somewhere
-- approximate
period of time is a when you meet
year later is the time that you described
5 6 7 8
~
Nancy, and then you have more contact with her

A. Q. A.
Yeah.
-- over a period
of time? I mean, I met Nancy when I was
Not a whole year.
9 10 11 12 13 14
still in the studio.

Q. A. Q.
. 1:39AM
Okay. Before Yes.
And so approximately I met Nancy?
how much time were you --
A.
Q. A.
A couple of months. And did he give you more clothing I remember having that jumpsuit over time? But, yeah,
15 16 17 18 19
forever.
eventually
Q.
I think Nancy started getting me clothes.
Now, I'm going to ask you in terms of there was a
period of time to where -- or was there a period of time where Phil wasn't basis?
A.
there, you didn't
see him on a daily
1:40AM
20 21 22 23 24
Do you recall that? Yeah. There was a -- there was a time that all of a showing up at all. And Nancy would come in And I
sudden he wasn't
and bring me food, and we would watch TV together. remember Where's asking
-- you know, asking her, "Where's Phil? And she said that he had to -- he was on or something. Was it a couple of
1:40AM
25 26 27 28
Phillip?"
this island for a little vacation

Q.
And about how much time went by? A month?
days?
79 CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1
2
A.
He was gone because
I didn't
-- I mean, it was nice

I
because
I didn't have to have sex or runs or anything.
3
4
.1:41AM
think it lasted about a month.

Q.
Did you ever learn whether
or not he was actually else? They arrested
on
5 6
an island, or was there something

A.
He was actually
in prison.
him again,
7
8 9
.1: 41AM
and he went back to -- I forget where -- the prison that he was at.
Q. A. Q. A. Q.
Lompoc, Lompoc? Yeah.
I think.
10 11 12 13 14
And you had learned that later on? Yeah. I learned that later on.
During that time, Nancy was the only person that you of time?
had contact with during that month period

A. Q.
.1
15 16 17 18 19
Yeah.
And he came back with an ankle bracelet.
Now, how much time went by from the time you were until the time that he left for a month and you
abducted
were with Nancy?

A. Q.
Can you say that again. From the time that you were first abducted on
.1:41AM
20 21 22 23 24
June 10th, 1991, until the time he was gone, you were told on an island -A. Q. A. Q.
Oh, how long was that until that happened? Yes. A year . I think I was 12 by then. when -- you knew when your birthday
.1:42AM
25 26 27 28
And you remember
was? A. Yeah. I had -- I guess I had told them my birthday, 80 CYNTHIA

J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3
4
.1: 42AM
and so they came in.
Nancy had her hair shorter by then. And they gave me some Barbie
It looked like the picture. stuff because

Q. A.
they knew that I liked to play with Barbies.
So you knew that was approximately Yeah. By then I was watching TV. You know, like the
5 6 7 8 9
morning thing.
Q. A. Q.
shows would give the date.
So I had a better time
That's approximately? Yeah. It's still hard to remember a year goes by. dates. Your birthday time period comes is
.1: 42AM
10 11 12 13 14
SO approximately And somewhere
around.
in that approximate
when he is gone for a month?

A. Q.
Yeah. During that time period, about the one-month were you still kept in a -period, approximate month
.1
15 16 17 18
19
I'm talking
period when he is gone. that point? A.

Q.
Where were you staying or living at
In the Blue Room. And would Nancy ever leave where she wasn't in your presence? She had to go to work, she said, and mostly At night she and watch
1:43AM
20 21 22
23
immediately
A.
Yeah.
she was in that -- you know, in the house.
would come in, and we would eat dinner together TV, but usually
Q.
24
.1:43AM
she would just lock the door and leave. at. During the period of a year later
25 26 27 28
And that's what I'm getting
time we're talking
about, up to approximately
and then during that one-month
period when Phillip is gone,
your -- you were still being locked up on a regular basis? 81 CYNTHIA

J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3 4
. 1: 43AM
A. gate. Q.
Yeah.
The door was locked.
It had iron doors, iron
And Nancy would lock the doors, too, during that
period of time? A. Q. Yes . SO then he leaves. He's gone for a month, and then
5 6 7
8 9
what happens when he gets back? A. again. Q. Um, just the same routine. Just normal routine, I remember runs happening
I guess.
.1: 44AM
10 11 12 13 14
And how often would the runs happen during that Let's say the next year. once a month after that. So it wasn't as
period of time? A. Probably
frequently,
but still frequent.
And by that time I think she
Nancy was smoking the crank, too, and, um, sometimes
II[
15 16 17 18 19
would tell me, "Oh, I'll take this run for you" and that kind of stuff.
Q.
Meaning
that she would have sex with Phil so you
didn't have to? A. Q. Yeah. And that's the terminology she would use? She was
.1:44AM
20 21 22
23
familiar with what a run was? A.

Q.
Oh, yeah. But Phillip was continuing on at that point. it changes to
24
.1: 45AM
Somewhere
around a year, in that ballpark,
25 26 27
28
about once a month? A. Q. Yeah. I would say. the same --- they didn't seem as long, like
82
And it involves Yeah.
A.
They weren't
CYNTHIA
J. ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3
4
1:45AM
maybe a day instead of three days.

Q.
Now, at some point, then, you mentioned
you became
pregnant.
A. Q. A. Q.
A.
Yes. And you had a baby? Urn-hum. And do you remember August 18th, 1994. the birthday of the baby?
5
6 7 8 9
Q.
So at this point you've been there for a little over
1:45AM
10 11 12 13 14
three years?
A.
Yes. And where did you have the baby? I had And Yes. And that's in August Yes. Now, just in terms of point of reference, that you're describing did of 1994?
Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q.
II1II (Jane Doe 2) next door in the Blue Room. II1II (Jane Doe 2) was the name of your daughter?
.1
15 16 17 18 19
activities continue
as a run, did that
.1: 46AM
20 21 22 23 24
on from about a year to that point in time with the or was it different? He said
same intervals,
A.
No.
It really -- things really changed.
that he was eventually
going to stop having sex with me and
that, you know, he's just really trying to change and he wants us all to be a family. I mean, the room situation And so things really changed .
.1: 46AM
25 26 27 28
changed back and forth.
He took the wall out from the studio room because we lived over there for a little bit. He was always switching 83 CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3
4
.1: 46AM
us back and forth. And during -- during the run situation, to, like, listen to the walls, ears and started hearing stuff. he started
and he bought these bionic
-- he said he heard voices and but he said he he just had to make He was
5 6
And I could never hear anything, and they were
heard a lot of voices,
7 8 9
.1:47AM
sure that the cops weren't getting,

Q.
out there or something.
like, paranoid
and stuff.
In this period of time when things started to change
10 11 12 13 14
in that regard, that was about the time that ..... (Jane Doe 2) was born? A. Um, yeah. Um-hum. It seemed like everything changed
when she was born.

Q.
And so she's born inside this backyard
area where
.1
VI
15 16 17 18 19
you're describing?
A. Q. A.
Um-hum. And then she lives with you? For yeah. Three years we lived next door. He
started -- he made a fence in the back, just a small portion, and I could go out there with the baby. a little, It was
1:47AM
20 21 22 23 24
like he bought
Q.
like, swing set and stuff. -- in this period of time, were you before?
Did you continue
still being locked up at night the way you described

A.
We were all sleeping
in the same room, so I don't
.1:48AM
25 26 27 28
know if they locked the door.

Q.
Did you feel as though
Phil was still -- I'm talking (Jane Doe 2) was born.
about beyond
three years after .....
And so he was controlling
you and your life? 84
CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1
2 3 4
.1:48AM
A.
Yeah.
I didn't have -- I didn't know where to go.
feel like -- you
know, I didn't
Q. A.
Q. A.
Did -Then I had a baby, and I just wanted it to be okay. And were you still afraid of Phil? Um, I don't know if I was afraid that he would, like, but just -- I mean, he would get mad I
5 6
7 8
9
.1: 49AM
kill me or something, sometimes.
But I don't think I was afraid for my life.
just felt like there was no other place for me.

Q. A.
Q. A.
10 11 12
13
And so you did what he told you to do? Yeah. Did runs continue Yeah. after
II1II
(Jane Doe 2) was born? He did go on maybe
They -- less frequently.
14
.1 M
one or two. building.
Nancy would take care of the baby in another And so it would -- these runs only lasted, like,
15 16 17 18 19
maybe the night, and then it was over.

Q.
And how often did those happen after
II1II
(Jane Doe 2) was born? A. Not very often. Nancy said a lot that she was -- she
.1: 50AM
20 21
22
would take -- she would do it for me .

Q. A.
She would take the run for you? Yeah. Because Phillip always said you know, in him and that, you
23 24
.1: 50AM
the beginning
he said that I was helping
know, he had a sex problem that he wouldn't helping him.

Q.
and that, you know, he got me so So I was
25 26 27 28
have to do this to anybody else.
And you were helping by preventing else?
it from happening
to somebody
85
CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2
3 4
.1: 50AM
A.
I guess that's how I felt, yeah.
That's what he told
me.
Q.
So you said it was not very often that there would and I'm using the terminology
"runs."
be
But from the
5
6 7 8 9
period of time -- because

A. Q. A. Q. A. Q.
you had a second child?
Yes. And when was she born? She was born November And what is her name? Her name is And from the time 13th, 1997.
.1:50AM
10 11 12 13 14
(Jane Doe 3) was born in 1997, how often did you have any type of sexual contact with Phil? A. I would say -- three years -- maybe like once every
(Jane Doe 3) . (Jane Doe 2 ) was born to
15 16 17 18 19
two or three months.

Q. A.
And during this once every two or three months
--
He knew I was really scared about getting pregnant He said he just couldn't help himself, but he was again, and
again.
really trying to stop.
And then I got pregnant
.1:51AM
20 21 22 23 24
that's the last time he had sex with me was when she was conceived.
Q.
To where you knew she was conceived? Yeah. And then he stopped? Yeah. And that was sometime 1997. But up until that point In time, from the time that 86 CYNTHIA
J.
A.
Q. A.
Q.
1:51AM
25 26 27 28
in
A.
Q.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2
3 4 5 6
7
***** Page 87 was removed by Court order. *****
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23
24 25 26 27 28
CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3 4
.1:54AM
So I agreed,
and we started calling her mom, and I
was -- then he said that I should pick a name that I wanted to be called, because calling me. Alissa. working before then it was Snoopy he was And so I picked the name business, and I started The
It was never my name.
5 6 7 8 9
And he started the printing there.
And we had a lot more freedom outside.
kids could go play out there, and we had a pool, one of the stand-up ones, above ground. Q. A. This is all in the backyard? Yeah. We -- I had my own tent. It was really nice We just
.1: 54AM
10 11 12 13 14
to have my own room and tent space. started,
I don't know.
like, acting like a family, and we would celebrate together. Just trying to be normal, I
their birthdays guess.

Q.
15 16 17 18 19
To the extent that you -Yeah. -- could? And your -- during this time, you wanted your -- you
A. Q.
have two daughters
that are living with you, and you want a life as
.1: 55AM
20 21 22
23
them to have as normal, under the circumstances, they could have? A. Q. Number Yeah.
Now, I'm going to show you what's been marked 15. It's a series of handwritten
as
24
.1: 55AM
notes, and I'm
25 26 27 28
going to ask you if you recognize 8-11-03. A. Q. Do you recognize That's mine.
who -- and it's dated that is?
whose writing
Yeah.
And these are -- can you tell us what this is? 88 CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3 4
.1: 56AM
A.
It's just like a journal that I kept.
I didn't want
to write a lot because mad. in.
I was afraid he would find it and be love the situation that we were
But I didn't totally
So I kind of kept it hidden and didn't write that much. I was feeling strong
5 6
But when I did, it was usually because
feelings about feeling trapped and not having a life and just wanting
Q.
7
8 9
.1:56AM
to be free.
And so you would write things that were going on in
your mind
A. Q.
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
My feelings,
yeah . you talk about those and feelings. You
And on this one dated 8-11-03,
types of things,
and this is your writing
talk about free to come and go as you please, have

A.
free to say I
Free to come and go as I please, Father. You're talking Yeah.
free to say I have a
father.
Q. A.
about the things you just described? He was our
Phillip wanted us to be a family.
dad and Nancy was their mom. did

Q.
You know, that's what we
.1:57AM
20 21 22
23
That's Number
--
A.
-- to give the kids, you know, normal as possible. Can I have a break to go to the bathroom? MR. PIERSON: Yes. Why don't we go ahead and take --
24
.1: 57AM
25 26 27 28
well THE WITNESS: MR. PIERSON: Do you want to finish this? Can we take, if it's okay with the -- three-, five-minute 89 CYNTHIA
J.
grand jury, take like a five-minute
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3
4
.1: 57AM
break, and then continue
on?
Because
I would like to
finish, if we could, before we break for lunch, if that's okay with everybody and our court reporter. Is that okay?
Why don't we take a quick five minutes. Why don't you read the admonition GRAND JUROR GR12 (Grand Juror GR12) The grand jurors are admonished form or express any opinions among themselves deliberation. be conducted that they are not to real quick. Okay. ......
5
6
7 8 9
.1: 57AM
about this case or discuss it the case for should
10 11 12 13 14
until the grand jury receives no inspection
In addition,
of evidence
without permission
of the foreperson
and on the
advice of the prosecuting submitted
attorney
until the case is Deliberation
to the grand jury for deliberation.
.1
'1
15 16 17 18 19
should only occur when all jurors that heard the testimony present. (Proceedings were in recess from 11:58 a.m. until 12:07 p.m.)
---000---
-- heard all the testimony
in the case are
.1: 58AM
20 21 22 23 24 MR. PIERSON: record, indicate present, witness myself,
Can we have our foreperson,
for the
that all the grand jurors are back,
and seated; our two guests that have joined us, the and the support person; and then Mr. Clinchard,
2:07PM
25 26 27 28
and no one else; is that correct? GRAND JUROR GR12
(Grand Juror GR12). MR. PIERSON:
That is correct. Thank you. 90
CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1
2 3 4
.2: 08PM
Q. Number A. Q.
(BY MR. PIERSON)
I'm going to ask you and show you what that is.
16 and ask you if you recognize
That's one of my journal entries. And is it the same type of journal entry you referred in terms of where you were describing
5
6 7
to before
A.
Q.
Things that I felt. Among other things, sometimes in this one you indicate that you
8
9
.2:08PM
want
you want to run away and essentially that you're in?
getting away from the situation A. Q. Yeah.
10 11 12 13 14
Did you -- on the second page of this one in the specifically going to Number 16, you indicated
reference,
that you would never leave because to "them, never leave them." A. Q. Phillip and Nancy. You said that because
-- and you're referring
'M
15 16 17 18 19
you're a coward.
"I've always
been a coward," those things. situation?

A.
and that you were scared and you talk about Did you ever attempt to escape from the
.2: 09PM
20 21
22 23
No. Physically Physically, attempt to escape? no.
Q.
A.
Q.
And why -- why not? Well, in the beginning, I was scared. I was scared.
24
.2: 09PM
A.
25 26 27 28
I didn't know what I would do. he would do, Phillip. mention Q. before Sure.
I was afraid of I guess what
And then I didn't -- I forgot to it.
-- I don't know if I should mention
91 CYNTHIA J. ELLERING, CRR, CSR (530) 621-7412
1 2
3 4
5
6
7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28
CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3 4
.2: 14PM
you know, saying he's so sorry for what he did; he can't believe okay. Q. he did it. And, you know, I would tell him, "It's You don't have to worry."
You know, I'm okay.
Now, I'm going to show you another one, which is 18, and this one is dated 7-5-04. Do you
5 6
7 8
marked Number
think that that -- did you put the date on there? A. Q. Yes. So that would be the approximate that? time when you would
9
.2: 14PM
have written
A.
10 11 12 13 14
Um-hum. And it's the same type of thing as when we talked
Q.
about in terms of journal? A. Q. Yeah. My feelings. to a number of things,
And in this one you referred
.2
15 16 17 18 19
including
you hate being afraid and why don't you have And these feelings -- is it fair to
control of your life.
say that all of these different describing captivity," describing various
feelings that you're
is -- by using the term "you're living in would you say that's a fair and accurate way of what it is that you're describing in these that you
.2: 15PM
20 21 22
23
journal entries of the actual situation
were living in? A. Yeah. It was just very confining. I mean, we went and I And that leave.
I
24
2:15PM
places later on as a family but never by myself, wanted him to teach me how to drive and stuff. never came. I didn't know what to do.
25 26 27 28
I couldn't
had the girls.
I didn't
know where to go, what I would do I didn't have anything.

95
for money or anything.
CYNTHIA
J. ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3
4
. 2: 16PM
Q. writing A. Q. A. Q. A.
Let me show you March 28th of 2006. this one? Yeah. And can you tell us -Yeah. Can you tell us what that is? It's things I wanted to do.
Do you recall
5
6 7 8 9
I wanted to see my mom,
what I always wanted to do. Q. And then at some point in time there was an incident
.2: 16PM
10
11
where -- just over a year ago where Phil was taken into custody and then came back to the house, and then all of you went to a different remember A. that? I was scared. He said location to a parole office. Do you
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
.2:17PM
His parole office, yeah, the next day.
I didn't
know what was going to happen, you know. was going to be okay.
everything
He just needed to, like, But like He never
not set the record straight.
He didn't say that. wrong.
show them that he was not doing anything thought he was doing anything wrong.
20 21 22 23 24
And he had us all go to the parole office. him, "Well, what do you want me to say?" He said, "Just stick with the plan. you any questions,
I said to
And if they ask You just and you
just say you need an attorney.
need to tell them that you're the girls' mother, give me permission
.2: 17PM
25 26 27 28
to take them around to" -- he was trying
to get his church going, God's desire. He took the girls to the Berkeley office, and that kind of stuff. 96 CYNTHIA J. ELLERING, CRR, CSR (530) 621-7412 campus, the FBI
1 2 3 4
2:17PM
Q. A. Q.
You're Yeah.
referring
to "stick with the plan"?
Can you describe Well, he said if
to us what the plan was? you know, if anything ever like
A..
5
6 7 8 9
happened
and he was arrested
for any reason or anything
that, that I just immediately
need to ask for a lawyer, and
keep in contact with his lawyer, and he would let me know what to do.
Q.
And how were you to keep -- why did you need a For what reason did you need a lawyer? I don't know. Did you believe that it would be in any way -- so if
.2: 18PM
10 11 12 13 14
lawyer?
A. Q.
you had a lawyer, he had a lawyer?

A.
I believed
that so that I could protect wrong.
him, so that
15 16 17 18 19
I wouldn't
say anything
You know, I think that's
what he believed, going to happen.

Q.
and I just said, you know, "That's never We don't need to worry about that."
When was the first time there was a plan such as this for if law enforcement came to the house, or When was the
discussed
2:18PM
20 21 22 23 24
somebody else found out when he was arrested? earliest memory

A.
you have of that?
The girls always -- I mean, they grew up knowing that and that we had to be -- we had to
their dad was on parole
be careful when we went into the house, which wasn't very frequent. But later on, like the last year -- last three care of his mother. She got -- she and she
.2: 19PM
25 26 27 28
years, we were taking
fell and she got -- she started having dementia, couldn't work, Parkinson's.
97 CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3 4
.2:19PM
And so we were taking care of her in the house a lot. I would go in for my shift with helping her, and she was not in her right mind. She was very angry unless he came in. He could do no
And then she was very -- she loved her son. wrong.
Q. A. But--
5 6 7 8 9
During the time that -- going back to -But the kids always knew that we had to be careful, is coming over. But during the last
the parole officer
year, he just stopped -- not caring but just, like, thinking that he wasn't doing anything wrong, and why are they after
.2:19PM
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
him, and he needs to get off of parole. And so the girls spent the night with their grandma In the house, and the next morning officers house. came in. I think one of his parole I didn't sleep in the
I was in the back.
And I guess they saw one of the girls, but he say anything.
didn't -- he didn't
And then so the next -- Phillip told us the next time that the parole officer came in and we were in the house, "Were you the one in
that I should ask the parole officer, my daughter's accounting anything

Q.
.2:20PM
20 21 22 23 24
room?"
You know, just so that we have an of
of it.
He always liked to have an accounting
that went on. grew up
And this plan that -- both of your daughters
knowing--
2:20PM
25 26 27 28
A.
Knowing that we had to protect
Dad.
That, you know, When
he was on parole but, you know, just can't be seen.
the girls first went out, you know, they would duck In the car and not be seen by the neighbors. That was in the 98 CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
really beginning. Lately, it's just, you know -- I mean, we can't go or anything like that, but just
2
3
out for walks by ourselves family outings Q. plan? A. and stuff.
4
.2:21PM
5 6 7 8 9
Did you feel obligated
to follow along with this
I really didn't think that there would be a need for I don't know what I thought. I just didn't
it, I guess.
want to make him mad because not physically
he would go through these --
.2:21PM
10
11
violent but just really mad. business, and he would shut
Like we had a printing down the whole printing any money.
12 13 14
.2 M
business,
and then we wouldn't make So
So we didn't want to make him mad, you know.
I tried to stay -- you know, go with the flow, that kind of thing. Q. And then eventually you go to the parole office, and what happened at the
15 16 17 18 19
there is -- describe parole office. A.
to us essentially
We were immediately
separated
-- me, Nancy, and the room. And
.2:22PM
20 21 22 23 24
two girls -- my two girls -- into this separate the parole
agent asked my name and what I'm doing here, and and that I work for them for right Because he asked for my contact I told
I say that I'm Alissa
now, but I'm out of town. information. I didn't
know what to say, you know. I'm an out-of-town
.2:22PM
25 26 27 28
him my last name was Franzen; I didn't know what to say. you know, anything. say.
relative.
I didn't
know how to protect, I didn't know what to
I was scared.
1 2 3 4
2:23PM
Q. A.
Did you eventually
-We
And then -- and then he said that we could leave. And we were just waiting
went back to the car.
for Phillip
to come so we can go home. Q. A. Eventually, Yeah.
It was very stressful. you back in?
5 6 7 8 9
they brought
They come back out and asked me to step out of
the car. mother
And he said that I was a liar, that I wasn't the said that they kids. And
of these two kids, that Phillip to his brother.
belonged
We are his brother's
.2: 23PM
10 11 12 13 14
I -- I looked at -- I just looked at him and said, "They are my daughters. believe me. I gave birth to them." And he still didn't
And I tried to concoct this stupid story that I
was running away from this guy, you know, their dad, and, you know, I can't give my name. to check me out, obviously, Because he wanted my name give him my name.
.2
:1
15 16 17 18 19
but I couldn't
And they said they are going to call Child Protective Services, and I said, "You can't take them away," you know. know what to do. I said, "I need a
But I just -- I didn't lawyer."
I did ask for a lawyer. like, "Why do you need a lawyer?" And I And he
.2: 24PM
20 21 22 23 24
They're
said, "Well" -- and then I asked to see Phillip. wouldn't anything. Q.

A. Q.
even look at me.
Like he didn't even care or
He just said that "she needs a lawyer."
He said that "she needs a lawyer"? Yeah. You? Yeah. Eventually, though, you were sitting with the 100 CYNTHIA J. ELLERING, CRR, CSR (530) 621-7412 He was referring to you?
.2:24PM
25 26 27 28
A. Q.
1 2 3
4
.2: 24PM
officers A.
from An officer came in. Melanie. Female officer. I
Yeah.
The males were really scary, but I just -- they thought was a runaway.
And they said that they were going to arrest and I would be I said,
5 6
me, and they were going to take me downtown, eventually "I'm sorry.
-- they would find out who I really was. I just -- I can't.
7
8 9
2: 25PM
I don't know what to do."
And Melanie
comes in and said that Phillip confessed And
and said that he had taken you, and I started crying. she said, "You need to tell me your name." I can't because Q. I hadn't
10 11 12 13 14
And I said that And ...
said my name in 18 years.
Did she have you write it down? I wrote it down. And then I wrote down my mom's
A.
name. Q. of
A.
Q.
.2
15 16 17 18
19
I'm going to show you Number
20.
Is that a copy
Yeah. -- what you wrote down? That's what it is. Now, let's talk about Nancy for just a moment. Did
A.
.2: 25PM
20 21 22
23
Q.
Nancy -- did Nancy ever admit to you or tell you that she was the other person A. Oh, yeah. in the car?
When she first -- when she was coming in she would -- she said that she would always start crying
24
.2: 26PM
and she would bring me things, she couldn't stay long because
25 26 27 28
and tell me how sorry she was and she can't believe he did it. She was so hoping that he got a headache that morning.
And it was very hard for her to come in and see me. 101 CYNTHIA J. ELLERING, CRR, CSR (530) 621-7412
1 2
3 4
.2: 26PM
It didn't mean that she didn't
like me or didn't,
you know,
want to see me, but it just -- because lonely I was and I wished
I would tell her how
she would stay longer and talk to
me, and she would tell me all that. Q. But it was clear to you from what she said that she in the car, even though you never saw
5 6
7 8 9
was the other person her? A. Q. present Yeah.
During the runs, was Nancy ever present
-- physically
.2:26PM
10 11 12 13 14
in the room when any of the runs were -No, she wasn't. But do you believe or do you know that Nancy was
A.
Q.
aware that they were happening? A. Yeah. She knew that they were happening. She
.2
15 16 17 18 19
would -- like later on when I had the baby, she would say, "Oh, I'll take this run, you know, so you can, you know, spend time with the baby." Phillip would say, you know, "I got to go next door and spend some time with Nancy for a little bit," that kind of stuff . Q. Now, the house that we're talking about and that I of, that is -- just to be perfectly
.2: 27PM
20 21 22 23 24
showed you the picture
clear, that is the same house that you were living at on the day when you went to the Concord Police Department and you
.2: 27PM
25 26 27 28
wrote the note with your name on it?

A.
Q.
Yes. You lived there the entire time? Yes. 102 CYNTHIA J. ELLERING, CRR, CSR (530) 621-7412
A.
1 2
3
Q.
And that was the one that you described
in terms of
being in the car and going allover?

A. Q.
Same place. And I've kind of asked you this before, but I want to The reasons -- I asked you did you ever try escape, and you said no. You said it was
4
.2:28PM
5 6 7 8
go back to it. to physically different
in the beginning
than it was later. more. In terms of in
But maybe the beginning, because

A. Q.
if you can describe
9
2:28PM
is it fair to say you never tried to escape
10 11 12 13 14
you were afraid? And restrained. You were -- and you described being physically
restrained
A. Q.
Yes. -- during that period of time? And then later on, you never tried to escape. And
.2
15 16 17 18 19
describe
for us why it was that you
beyond what you did it in
in the diaries, your own words. A.
is there -- if you can characterize
.2:28PM
20 21 22 23 24
I felt like I didn't have anywhere He
else to go.
knew my stepdad.
I felt like he didn't like me, and I or they He
didn't -- that he would -- they would be happier, would be better
off without me being there at home.
would always call them the Three Musketeers, and his daughter,
him, my mom,
.2:29PM
25 26 27 28
I11III
(Jane Doe 4) He was always sending
And I always me away.
felt in the way.
The year before,
I was sent to my aunt and uncle's I was sent there 103
because he wanted
alone time with my mom.
CYNTHIA
J. ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3 4
.2:29PM
for a year. anywhere
And so I -- I guess I felt like I didn't have And I was helping somebody, even though it
to go.
was In a really sick, perverted

Q. A.
way. this happen
You were helping because
5 6 7
Helping him, his sexual -- so that it wouldn't
to anybody else, and I don't know.

Q.
You believed
that it would happen to someone else,
8 9
.2:30PM
given what you knew about Phil?

A.
He said that he needed help with his sexual problem, and that, you know, I was say that, that he would take I got was that I was
10 11 12 13 14
that he had a real problem, helping him. somebody And he didn't
else, but the impression something.
helping prevent
Q.
I think I showed you 10 and 11. Correct?
This is the outside
.2
15 16 17 18 19
of the Blue Room. A.

Q.
Um-hum. And it changed over time, but that was -- and then And then Number 11 is the inside at the point in
that's 10.
time we're talking and then the police

A. Q.
about where you went to the parole office department?
.2:30PM
20 21 22 23 24
Yeah.
That was the girls' room. since that date when
Now, I'm going to show you
you went into the police have happened
station and all the things that
in the last year, since that time do you where we had an investigator You know who Mike Franzen is? by the name
.2:30PM
25 26 27 28
recall an occasion of Mike Franzen? A.

Q.
Yes. Mike Franzen came, I believe -- I was actually with 104 CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3 4
. 2:31PM
him, and we showed you and let you watch a series of videotapes?
A. Q. A. Q.
Yes. And do you recall looking at those videos? Yes . And I'm going to -- I'm going to characterize on -- there were numerous it.
5 6 7 8 9
You described videotaped A.

Q.
times where Phil
the runs and things that were going on?
Yes. And those videos that you looked at, were they some
.2:31PM
10 11 12 13 14
of the videos
A. Q.
of that taking place?
Yes. And as best as you can recall, how many times would videotaped? every run. I know he did
you say that he actually

A.
.2
15 16 17 18 19
I don't know.
It wasn't
other videotaping,
Q. A. Q.
but me specifically?
Urn-hum. Maybe a total of five or ten times. You don't remember specifically, but that's just --
.2:32PM
20 21 22 23 24
A.
Q.
(Witness nods head.) And what would you say was the last time that that in terms of -- can you point to a point in time in
happened
terms of the last time you recall being videotaped? A.

Q.
Probably
right before
II1II
(Jane Doe 2) was born.
. 2:32PM
25 26 27 28
And you said with you. other people?
Are you aware of Phil
videotaping A.
I know Nancy used to talk about her hating summers kids in the 105 CYNTHIA
J.
because he would have her go out and videotape
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2
3 4
5
6
7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28
CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2
3 4
.2: 35PM
from watching is you?

A.
the videos and from looking at those that that
Yeah. Do you know why Phil was on parole and had been in
Q. prison? A. Q.
5 6 7 8 9
For raping another woman. You learned that at some point during the period of
time that we talked about? A. Yeah. He told me that he was on parole. He did a terrible He raped
.2: 36PM
10 11 12 13 14
another person. sentenced
thing, but the judge for.
him to way too much time, and it was uncalled At this point -- I know we had some Were there any other
MR. PIERSON: questions questions
that were handed to me. the grand jurors had?
.2
15 16 17 18 19 Q.
I don't see any . (BY MR. PIERSON) Did Nancy ever tell you that she Did she know why he was
knew why Phil had been in prison? on parole? A. Yeah. Yeah.
They met in prison.
She -- her uncle
.2: 36PM
20 21 22
23
was also in the same prison that he was in, Leavenworth, Kansas. And it was like some party, some Cinco de Mayo or
something. they met.
And she went to visit her uncle, and that's how And then he started sending letters -- Phillip And, eventually, they got
24
2:37PM
started sending married Q.
letters to Nancy.
25 26 27 28
in prison. The stuff that you just described to us in terms of
the runs and everything place at the Concord
else and then the incident that took was that the first 108
Police Department,
CYNTHIA
J. ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3
4
.2: 38PM
time that you told anybody
in law enforcement
about all of
the things that had happened? A. Yes. MR. PIERSON: Are there any other questions?
5
6 7 8 9
I'm going to ask you if you could read the admonition. I'm going to go ahead and read it. You are admonished except as directed I've got it here.
not to reveal to any person, you were
by the court, what questions
.2: 38PM
10 11 12 13 14
asked, what responses concerning
were given, or any other matters
the nature or subject of the grand jury's which you learned during your appearance
investigation,
before the grand jury, unless and until such time as the transcript Violation of court . ... (Jane Doe), do you understand Yes. (Dr. Doe), you understand regarding confidentiality applies to that? of this grand jury proceeding of this admonition is made public. as contempt
.2
15 16 17 18 19
is made punishable
THE WITNESS: MR. PIERSON: that same admonition you?
.2:39PM
20 21 22 23 24
(DR. DOE): MR. PIERSON: Obviously, lunchtime
Yes.
One quick second. past what the normal If it's agreeable that we break
we went significantly
.2: 40PM
25 26 27 28
would be, which would be noon.
with all of the grand jurors,
I would propose
for one hour and then be back, and we'll have brief follow-up witnesses. Most of them are fairly short. 109 CYNTHIA J. ELLERING, CRR, CSR (530) 621-7412
1 2 3 4
.2: 40PM
Actually,
two of them will be very short, and one of them is
a little bit longer. So we would start at what would be roughly a quarter to 2:00. If you could read the separation GRAND JUROR GR12 (Grand Juror GR12) . The grand jurors are admonished form or express among themselves deliberation. be conducted any opinions that they are not to it admonition.
5 6 7 8 9
about this case or discuss
.2: 40PM
10 11 12 13 14
until the grand jury receives the case for no inspection of evidence should and on
In addition, without
the permission
of the foreperson
the advice of the prosecuting submitted
attorney
until the case is Deliberation
to the grand jury for deliberation.
.2
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28
should only occur when all jurors that heard all the testimony in the case are present. Okay. Thank you all. We'll see you
MR. PIERSON:
back in about an hour. (Whereupon, at 12:41 p.m. the luncheon recess was taken.)
---000---
PLACERVILLE, TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER
CALIFORNIA 21, 2010, 1:43 P.M.
2
3 4
11: 43PM
---000---
MR. CLINCHARD: foreperson
If we could have the jury
5 6 7 8 9
-- it looks like, on my count, 19 grand jurors Jim Clinchard, and Vern Pierson
are here, along with myself, and the court reporter. GRAND JUROR GR12 (Grand Juror GR12). MR. CLINCHARD: Garrett Schiro. GRAND JUROR GR12 swear that the evidence pending before
If you could just confirm that.
I confirm
it. the oath to
11: 43PM
10
11
If you could administer
12 13 14
_III
You do solemnly you shall give in this matter
the grand jury shall be the truth, the whole but the truth, so help you God? Yes, I do. You can have a seat. TESTIMONY GARRETT OF
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
truth, and nothing THE WITNESS:
MR. CLINCHARD:
SCHIRO,
a witness
called by the People, having been first duly as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION
sworn, testifies
BY MR. CLINCHARD: Q. If you could state your name, spelling your last name
11: 44PM
25 26 27 28
for the record. A.

Q.
My name is Garrett
Schiro, S-C-H-I-R-O.
What is your current occupation? I'm a deputy sheriff for the Contra Costa County 111 CYNTHIA J. ELLERING, CRR, CSR (530) 621-7412
A.
1
2 3
Sheriff's Q. A. Q.
Office.
And how long have you been a sworn peace officer? Over 11 years. Were you involved residence in a search of Phillip and Nancy 29th of 2009?
4
'1: 44PM
5 6
7
Garrido's A. Q.
back on August
Yes, I was. And the address of that residence, do you recall what
8 9
'1: 44PM
that was? A. Q. 1554 Walnut Avenue, Antioch, And while conducting California.
10 11 12 13 14
or being part of that search,
did you come across any sort of videotapes? A. Q. Yes, I did. Can you explain a little bit about how you came
across them? A. In the backyard portion of the residence was a lot of
'1
15 16 17 18 19
debris thrown away, old appliances.
It looked like it They
had -- like it was used for their waste disposal. would just dump everything. So in one -- in the northeast backyard, portion of the
'1: 45PM
20 21 22 23 24
there was a large pine tree with various like I was describing. And when we started to the tree, I
appliances,
remove those appliances discovered videotapes. Q. marked
from underneath
a large black trash bag filled with VHS and 8 mm I would estimate approximately 75 or more.
'1:46PM
25 26 27 28
And I'm going to show you what's been previously as Exhibit No.7, an aerial photograph of the
residence.
Do you see in the bottom photo there the portion that you were talking about where you found 112
of the residence
CYNTHIA
J. ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3 4
11: 46PM
the bag and tapes? A. Yeah. It would be right -- right here underneath the
pine tree. Q. And you're pointing "Concealed to the left-hand box that's of
5 6
7
entitled that box?
Compound,"
the upper right portion
A.
Q.
Yes. Can you describe -- you already did a little bit,
8 9
11: 46PM
what was in there. into the bag? A.
But what did you see when you looked
10 11 12 13 14
Well, the bag was -- it was somewhat buried under all items and some of the dirt. We
the rest of the thrown-away actually
had to remove some of the tree.
We sawed some of
the tree branches
away and had to use -- had to use shovels
11
15 16 17 18 19
to dig out around these items. And then there was -- like I described, the large
black trash bag was all bound up in knots, and I opened it up. And there was various VHS and 8 mm videotapes with what them
appeared together, Q. point? A.
to be some sort of sticky substance melting it looked like.
11: 47PM
20 21 22 23 24
And what did you do with the bag of tapes at that
At that point I set the bag aside in order for an FBI
agent, who was on scene, to look through them to see whether they were of evidentiary Q. value or not.
11: 48PM
25 26 27
28
And I'm going to show you what's been already marked 21, a photograph. Do you recognize what's
as Exhibit depicted
in that photograph? 113 CYNTHIA J. ELLERING, CRR, CSR (530) 621-7412
1 2
3
A.
Yeah.
That's -- that appears that I found.
to be the black bag
with the videotapes Q.
And from the photo,
it looks like it might be sitting can? can, yes. where you said can?
4
11: 48PM
inside of some sort of garbage A. Q.
5
6
7
I put them in a metal garbage
So you moved them from the location
you found them and put them into that garbage A. Yes. MR. CLINCHARD: questions. Okay.
8 9
11: 48PM
I don't have any further they want to
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
Do any grand jurors have questions
write down for me to ask Mr. Schiro? For the record, it doesn't appear that any of the for for
grand jurors are indicating Mr. Schiro. you. You are admonished except as directed or what responses
they have any questions
So if the -- I guess I have the admonition
not to reveal to any person, were asked concerning
were given or any other matters
the nature or subject of the grand jury's investigation, which you learned during your appearance before the grand
11: 49PM
20 21 22 23 24
jury, until -- unless and until such time as the transcript of this grand jury proceeding this admonition You're is punishable is made public. as contempt Violation of
of court.
free to go. Thank you. I'm going to call Investigator Mike
11: 49PM
25 26 27 28
THE WITNESS: MR. CLINCHARD: Franzen.
When he comes in, if you would read the witness
admonition. 114 CYNTHIA

J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3 4
11: 50PM
GRAND JUROR GR12 swear that the evidence pending
You do solemnly you shall give in this matter
before the grand jury shall be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? THE WITNESS: Yes, I do. TESTIMONY OF
5 6 7 8 9
MIKE FRANZEN, a witness called by the People, having been first duly as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. CLINCHARD: Q. Can you please state your full name, spelling your
sworn, testifies
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
11: 50PM
last name for the record. A. First name is Mike. Last name is Franzen. It's
F-R-A-N-Z-E-N. Q.
A.
What is your current occupation? I'm a district attorney investigator for El Dorado
County. Q. A. Q. How long have you been a sworn peace officer? Next month will be 18 years. Were you involved residence in a search of the Phillip and back on August 30th of 2009?
20 21 22 23 24
Nancy Garrido A. Q.
A.
Q.
Yes, I was. And what's the address 1554 Walnut Avenue And in conducting of that location?
11: 51PM
25 26 27 28
in Antioch. the search, a portion of the search
that day, did you ever come across any sort of videotapes? A. Yes. 115 CYNTHIA J. ELLERING, CRR, CSR (530) 621-7412
1 2 3 4
11:51PM
Q.
And can you tell me a little bit about how you came
across them?
A.
There was a search that was being conducted Pittsburgh, and Antioch Police
there by
Contra Costa County, Departments. videotapes

Q.
And during that search, a large number of
6
7 8 9
11:51PM
was found buried under a large pile of garbage.
And do you know, when you came across the tapes,
where were they?

A.
They were underneath
the carport on the property
in
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
a -- inside of a plastic bag. can.

Q.
It was inside of a garbage
Let me show you what's been marked as Exhibit what's depicted there?
21.
Do
you recognize
A. Q. A.
Yes. What
lS
that? as I found them in the
These will be the videotapes
carport area, and I actually

Q.
took this photograph.
Okay.
And what did you do with the videotapes? can and the plastic bag so I
A.
I took them out of the garbage
'1:52PM
20 21 22 23 24
bag and placed could transport

Q.
them into a much larger paperwork them back to EI Dorado County.
And once you got them back to EI Dorado County, did the tapes?
you ever inventory

A. Q.
Yes. And can you give me some more details about what that showed? the tapes into VHS and Hi-8, or 8 mm them separately to be logged into 116 CYNTHIA
J.
'1:52PM
25 26 27 28
inventory A.
I separated
sized and packaged
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1
2 3
evidence.
Q.
And do you know how many Hi-8 tapes you came across? There were 14 Hi-8 tapes. And how many VHS? There would have been 81 VHS tapes. And did you do anything Yes. I packaged specific with the Hi-8 tapes? them to
A.
Q. A. Q. A.
4
11: 52PM
5 6
7
them into a box and provided
8 9
11: 53PM
another investigator them. Q.

A. Q.
who was going to be doing some work on
10 11 12 13 14
And what's that investigator's Richard Pesce.
name?
And then what did you do with the 81 VHS tapes? The VHS tapes remained in the secured evidence attorney's office.
A.
storage at our office with the district

Q.
11
15 16 17 18 19
I'm going to show you what's been marked photograph,
as Grand Do you
Jury Exhibit No. 22, a one-page recognize

A. Q. A.
aerial.
what's
depicted
there?
Yes. What is depicted there? Bay Area, the South Lake Tahoe
11: 53PM
20 21 22 23 24
It looks like the San Francisco area, and up in the Sierras,
Sacramento area.
Q.
And there are two different what's depicted
areas there. location
Do you of those
recognize
in the general
11: 53PM
25 26 27 28
arrows In the overview? A. Yes. The South Lake Tahoe location, I recognize the
address as being where time she was abducted.
(Jane Doe) lived at the The arrow In the Antioch area 117
CYNTHIA
J. ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1
2
depicts the area of 1554 Walnut Avenue.

Q.
And the location
at 1090 Washoan
Boulevard
in South
3
4
11: 54PM
Lake Tahoe, that's in EI Dorado County?

A. Q.
Yes. The other location with the arrow, 1554 Walnut is that in Contra Costa County? Yes. Unincorporated Yes. MR. CLINCHARD: That's all the questions I have for Antioch?
5 6
7
Avenue,
A. Q. A.
8 9
11: 54PM
10 11 12 13 14
Investigator questions
Franzen.
Does any grand juror have any written
they'd like to submit?
GRAND JUROR GR12 (Grand Juror GR12) . Q. (BY MR. CLINCHARD) Investigator Franzen, do you know
11
15 16 17 18 19
who ultimately
A.
did the preview
of the tapes?
The preview
of the tapes was done by Investigator
Richard
Q.
Pesce with our office. And he, as far as you know, understands the nature of
11: 55PM
20 21 22 23 24
what's on those videotapes?

A.
Yes.
He called me as soon as he saw what was on
them. MR. CLINCHARD: questions Okay. Any other questions -- written
by grand jurors? So I'm
11: 55PM
25 26 27 28
It looks like there's no other questions. going to read you an admonition. You are admonished except as directed
not to reveal to any person, were asked 118
CYNTHIA
J. ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3
4
11: 55PM
or what responses
were given or any other matters of the grand jury's
concerning
the nature or subject matter investigation,
which you learned during your appearance
before the grand jury, unless and until such time as the transcript Violation court. You're free to go. Thank you. I think that this might be a good that the So maybe of this grand jury proceeding of this admonition is made public. as contempt of
5 6 7 8
9
is punishable
THE WITNESS: MR. CLINCHARD: time. We're moving
11: 55PM
10 11 12 13 14
really quick, and I believe
next witness a five-minute
is in the process
of doing something.
break right now so we can make sure that we're
ready to go with the next witness. Read the admonition, GRAND JUROR GR12 admonished please. The grand jurors are
11
15 16 17 18 19
they are not to form or express any opinions it among themselves until the In addition, without the
about this case or discuss grand jury receives no inspection permission prosecuting
the case for deliberation. should be conducted
11: 56PM
20 21 22
23
of evidence
of the foreperson attorney
and on the advice of the to the
until the case is submitted Deliberation
grand jury for deliberation.
should only occur in the case are
24
11: 56PM
when all jurors that heard all the testimony present. MR. CLINCHARD: five That's it.
25 26 27 28
I would say -- I'll say
if you want to hold on just one second, I might be I don't 119 CYNTHIA J. ELLERING, CRR, CSR (530) 621-7412
able to find out if it's going to be five or ten.
1 2 3 4
11: 58PM
think they are ready. (Brief pause.) MR. CLINCHARD: Sorry about that. MR. PIERSON: If you could. I am told the next witness is ready.
5 6 7 8 9
GRAND JUROR GR12 (Grand Juror GR12) . You do solemnly swear that the evidence you shall
give in this matter pending before
the grand jury shall be
11: 58PM
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? THE WITNESS: I do. TESTIMONY RICHARD a witness OF
PESCE,
called by the People, having been first duly as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION
sworn, testifies
BY MR. PIERSON:
Q.
Sir, would you state your full name and spell your
11: 58PM
20 21 22 23 24
last. A.
Q.
It's Richard
Pesce~ P-E-S-C-E.
Go ahead and have a seat. Can you tell us where it is that you are employed?
A.
I'm employed
as a district
attorney
investigator
with
11: 58PM
25 26 27 28
the El Dorado County Q.
District Attorney's
Office. do you
And in your capacity
as a D.A. investigator, and training
have any specialized
background
as it relates
to -- I'm going to say technology-related
issues in general? 120
CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2
3 4
'1: 59PM
A. Q. A.
I do. Would you please describe Yes. Prior to being a district attorney investigator for for it.
5 6 7
El Dorado County, Amador County. specialist basically,
I was a district
attorney
investigator
Prior to that, I was an information County, where I worked
systems
for Amador
as the IT guy,
8
9
'1: 59PM
for the department. investigators with
During that time, I assisted high-tech academy,
10 11 12 13 14
crimes and things of that nature. got assigned to high-tech
Went to an
crimes in Amador County, to
and then transferred high-tech Q.
over here and have been assigned
crimes for about three years now in El Dorado. of last year, of of
Now, do you have -- back in September to become involved
15 16 17 18 19
did you have occasion video-related the abduction A. Q. Yes.
in an analysis
items that stemmed from the investigation of (Jane Doe)?
And can you describe
just essentially
what it was you
'2: OOPM
20 21 22 23 24
were asked to do? A. I was presented Fourteen, with a number of destroyed specifically, initially. They were in
videotapes.
Hi-8 videotapes.
I was instructed
to go to Aerospace
NASA down in the Los Angeles
area and work with them to may not have been on these so we needed a
'2: OOPM
25 26 27 28
recover the footage that mayor videos.
The videos were pretty destroyed,
lab to do that type of work. Q. And describe for us what specifically happened, the 121 CYNTHIA J. ELLERING, CRR, CSR (530) 621-7412
1 2 3 4
12: OlPM
process
A.
that you went through. Well, the process was pretty -- was pretty tedious. and
These tapes were destroyed this chemical essentially
using some sort of chemical, melted
the housing on these tapes.
5 6 7 8 9
The plastic melted
and encased the actual videotape. work in any player, so we had to and chemicals, and then the
So they wouldn't
pull them apart and, using various
techniques
unspool the tape and then put them into new housing hopefully Reader's
Q.
be able to watch the contents, Digest format.
is essentially
12: OlPM
10 11 12' 13 14
Did anything
that you did -- there was a number of you in this process?
people that assisted

A. Q.
That's
correct. there was a -- we had the of NASA, and there in terms of
And it was -- you indicated of -- in Southern of different Correct?
12
15 16 17 18 19
assistance
California
was a number this process.

A.
Q.
people
that assisted
Correct. But in all the work that was done, you basically and oversaw were
12: 02PM
20 21 22
23
present
in both the chain of custody as well as evidence items?
the condition
A.
of the various correct.
That's
Q.
And was there anything
that ever took place that
24
12: 02PM
would In any way alter or cause somebody to change or anything

A.
25 26 27 28
of that kind of nature? of that nature. All the work we did to
No, nothing
these specific
videos,
nothing we did would have changed any it in any shape, way, or form. 122
of the images or altered
CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2
3 4
12: 02PM
What was on it to begin with and then destroyed, seemingly Q. destroyed,
or
is exactly what we recovered. from each of the tapes, the
Were you able to recover,
entire image or the entire series of images that would have been contained
A.
5 6
in the videos? The damage was pretty
No, not all the time.
7 8 9
12: 03PM
extensive. probably
And on the average with the Hi-8 tapes, I about 60 percent of the video. Very of the
recovered
rarely did I recover any of the audio just because
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
way -- the way the tape and the audio tracks lay on the physical Q. at?
A.
Q.
tape.
So no, to answer your question. of tapes that you looked
So what was the total number
Hi-8 tapes? Well, first the Hi-8 tapes and then the VHS. I looked at 14 Hi-8 tapes. And how many VHS tapes? 310, I believe. And so there was a significant volume of evidence the team leader
A.
Q. A. Q.
12: 03PM
20 21 22 23 24
that was analyzed,
and you were essentially
that ran this team that did the extensive A. Q. That's correct. you identified
amount of work?
And, ultimately,
a total of how many
that are significant A.
to this investigation?
12: 03PM
25 26 27 28
Total out of the 310 VHS tapes and 14 Hi-8 tapes, evidence pertaining
there were 4 Hi-8 tapes that contained to this particular evidence
case and 4 VHS tapes that contained
about this case. 123 CYNTHIA J. ELLERING, CRR, CSR (530) 621-7412
I 2 3 4
12: 04PM
Q.
SO I'm going to ask you in terms of -- and just kind the tapes that you identified We've identified as being
of run through si~nificant. number.
them using the D.A. evidence Basically, what happened to
Where are the tapes?
5 6 7 8
9
them after they were processed? A. Well, after we cleaned
Let me ask you that. them as and
them and recovered
best as possible,
we took the original envelope.
tape housing
placed them in a manila those envelopes our evidence
And from there we sealed in
individually
and placed those envelopes
12: 05PM
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
locker. any
Now, with the rebuilt tapes, if it contained evidence, district I personally attorney's locked it up in a safe in the
office where myself
and Investigator
Franzen, who testified with the combination. contain any evidence room. Q.
prior to me, were the only two people And the rest of the tapes that didn't
were placed
in a box in our evidence
And just for clarity,
the tapes that we're referring by Investigator -- they
to are the ones that were recovered were discovered 's Department brought Garrido A. by a detective
12: 05PM
20 21 22 23 24
from the Contra Costa Sheriff physically recovered and
and then actually
into custody here -- they were recovered residence and brought
from the
here for processing?
Well, the 14 Hi-8 tapes and the 81 VHS tapes were recovered by the one detective. If you give me a
12: 05PM
25 26 27 28
initially moment,
I can tell you his name. UNIDENTIFIED THE WITNESS: GRAND JUROR: Thank you. 124 CYNTHIA
J.
Schiro.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2
3
4 5
6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28
CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3 4
12: 43PM
crotch level of this little girl, and the camera was stationary. recording, And when the little girl noticed the camera was she asked Nancy about it. And Nancy deflected
and said, "I don't know anything
about a camera." in the scene,
5 6
And when the girl's father appeared Nancy casually seemingly daughter. Another scene -- I believe
draped a jacket over the camera so the dad see the camera recording his
7 8 9
12: 43PM
so the dad wouldn't
Phil and Nancy just bought
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
a new video camera, where children structure.
and they went to a park and found a spot in the background on a play on how to use
were playing
Phil gave Nancy some instruction and how to pretend
the videotape
to film him while, in fact,
filming the children
in the background. Phil plays the guitar, sings a
The scene continues.
couple of songs, while Nancy is shooting past him on high zoom at the young children park. MR. PIERSON: Okay. And do we have any questions playing in the park -- in the
12: 44PM
20 21 22 23 24
from the grand jury of this witness? Any questions? Q. (BY MR. PIERSON) At any time did you notice what somebody else was
would appear to you to be as though present A. weren't
in the room and running the camera? All of the screen shots were stationary. really moving They
12: 45PM
25 26 27 28
around a lot, and if they were, Phil
was out of the frame or you could see Phil's arm holding the camera. 141 CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2
3 4
12: 45PM
At one point where I told you all about the audio that I provided a copy to ...... (Jane Doe) to identify Phil
in, the audio quality was a little poor, and I was unsure if I heard one or two males that to ...... was, indeed, multiple in the room. But after providing
5 6
(Jane Doe), she was able to tell us that that He used
Phil, and that's the way he talked. like that.
7 8
9
12: 46PM
voices and things
So no, they were all filmed either on a tripod or by Phil.

Q.
10 11 12 13 14
Are you aware of any evidence any of those videos?
that Phil sold or
broadcasted
A.
No.
I mean, of course it's a possibility, called the National
but
there's Missing
an organization and Exploited
Center for of all
Children
that have a database
15 16 17 18 19
the child pornography
that we've collected,
not just in our
county but in the country, from that organization portions
and we invited a representative
to come down and view redacted them with face shots so
of the footage and provided
they could go back and compare those to the database. And even though their investigation they are still researching pornography is ongoing and
12: 46PM
20 21 22
23
-- you know, we find child But so far there's to show that he sold
more and more every day. So we have no evidence
been no hits. or provided yet.
24
12: 47PM
them to anybody,
not that we've caught or found
25
26 27 28
MR. PIERSON:
Okay.
I don't see any other questions.
Sir, would you reread the concluding ... MR. CLINCHARD: Jim Clinchard. 142 CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3 4
12: 47PM
You are admonished except as directed or what responses
not to reveal to any person, were asked concerning
were given or any other matters
the nature or subject of the grand jury's investigation, which you learned during your appearance -- your appearance
5
6
before the grand jury unless and until such time as the transcript Violation court. MR. PIERSON: Okay. We got a little bit of a late of this grand jury proceeding of this admonition is made public. as contempt of
7 8 9
12: 48PM
is punishable
10 11 12 13 14
start, and we're trying to work out in terms of scheduling. At this point in time we've read the instructions, which is essentially the law that generally covers this part
of this case and the determination to make, whether
that you're being asked cause to believe are
\I[
15 16 17 18 19
or not there's probable
that each one of the charged offenses established to that degree.
in the indictment
Obviously, evidence,
in some regards, we have an abundance someone might reasonably,
of
and sometimes
listening
12: 48PM
20 21 22 23 24
to all of it, think, why are they putting evidence and so much detail?
on so much of the record
And it's because
that we have to establish
and protect
in terms of this will in some way.
be looked at later on and perhaps
challenged
So that's just by way of explanation. What I have here is a proposed proposed indictment indictment. And the
12: 48PM
25 26 27 28
is one for this grand jury to consider.
It is essentially Complaint
the same as the -- very similar to the and distributed. It includes at 143
that was marked
CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3 4
12: 49PM
the end a spot for a signature jury. It's 12 pages in length. that testified.
by the foreperson,
the grand
It refers to the four
witnesses
I can go through and the allegations magnitude
in some specific
detail the charges
in there, but I don't -- given the in this case, it's not -- I don't
6 7 8 9
12: 49PM
of the evidence the point.
want to belabor
What I have here is a chart, to be viewed the evidence
for your benefit,
just
so that the jury can consider whether that you heard was consistent the way the indictment periods
or not
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
with this. is laid out is it
Essentially, refers to different statements
of time based upon the of (Jane Doe) in
and the testimony
terms of what happened months, what happened
in the first few weeks, first few in the first year, what happened in
the first three years, and then going on to -- you know, in a chronological fashion in the way we attempted that's what it involves. and forward. is essentially abduction, that she was as she to do that.
Essentially, the initial
It goes from
kidnapping
12: 50PM
20 21 22 23 24
As to Nancy, the evidence an active participant indicated testified to to.
in the original
(Jane Doe) later on, as she
And then she is -- what the evidence think, clearly -- and you were instructed liability
demonstrated,
12: 50PM
25 26 27 28
on what's called
aider and abettor instigate,
in terms of where you assist or a crime,
encourage,
or in some way facilitate
you're legally
responsible
not only for the target crime, or 144
CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3
4
12: 51PM
the original responsible that.
crime, that being kidnapping, for the natural and probable
but you're of
consequences
In other words, to -- not to belabor you were to participate previously
the point,
if
5
6 7 8
with a person who you know has of kidnapping and sexual assaults, girl, under these you heard, it is an
been convicted
and you go out and kidnap an ll-year-old circumstances overwhelming, going on. and all the other evidence reasonable conclusion
9
12: 51PM
that she knew what was
10 11 12 13 14
And I think that was clear from the testimony circumstances (Jane Doe). the point anymore. We as well as the
of -- just the reasonable testimony of
So I don't want to belabor will provide read earlier. foreperson,
you with a copy of the instructions We will also provide
that were
15 16 17 18 19
you, through the to be considered. like this -- just in the jurors
copies for post indictment an indictment
You can consider
terms of having done several of these, sometimes will consider the evidence,
and they need a fair amount of counts.
12: 52PM
20 21 22 23 24
time to go through And sometimes
and talk about the individual
it's, frankly, we've walked out and they've
said, "Come back." So it's really your decision in terms of how much that evidence, to
time that you think you need to consider evaluate the evidence,
12: 52PM
25 26 27 28
and make that determination. at this point?
Do we have any questions
So at this point the Court -- what has -- the jurors have to -- the 19 that are available that have heard all of 145 CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1
2
the evidence, sufficiency
at least 12 have to agree as to the and that is the test. If all
of the evidence, that's
3
4
12: 52PM
19 agree, obviously, requirement is 12.
fine, too, but the minimum
5 6
Any questions? GRAND JUROR GR07 witnesses? MR. PIERSON: In this case. I'm sorry. Is that it for the
7
8 9
12: 53PM
GRAND JUROR GR07
IIIIIIII
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
IIIIIIII
(Grand Juror GR07)
GRAND JUROR GR12 (Grand Juror GR12) . When you refer to "this case," is this just a piece of what we're going to be listening MR. PIERSON: anticipated As I indicated completely to? before, we've unrelated case that you on next
a separate,
would be asked to consider week.
returning
an indictment
So this is just one separate
deal that you've heard this
the evidence determination.
on, and it relates to making
12: 53PM
20 21 22 23 24
Any other questions? GRAND JUROR GR14 GR14). I wasn't (Grand Juror When
able to hear some of her testimony.
we went on that five-minute
break just before we went to around and so forth, I missed about something Nancy
12: 53PM
25 26 27 28
lunch and were passing papers
the part about where she was talking told her that indicated kidnapping.
that Nancy was there at the original able to hear it. 146
I just wasn't
CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2
3 4
12: 54PM
Is there some way I can read it in a transcript something? MR. PIERSON: The court reporter
or
can read back any
section that the grand jury thinks that needs to be read back. GRAND JUROR GR14 specifically testimony MR. consider Because I know you
6 7 8
9
12: 54PM
asked her that to clarify.
I didn't hear her
leading up to that. PIERSON: And that's something indictment, where, as you
10 11 12 13 14
this proposed
it's really -- it's again, the You can listen
your -- you can listen to all of the evidence transcript. You can listen to a little bit.
to as much or as little as you want to. determination evidence
It's really a
to be made by the body in terms of what separately. You
12
15 16 17 18 19
you need to look at individually,
have to do it collectively. free to you. GRAND JUROR GR18 Juror GR18) . MR. PIERSON:
But any readback
like that is
(Grand
12: 54PM
20 21 22 23 24 there?
Yes, sir? How many counts are
GRAND JUROR GR18
MR.
PIERSON:
18.
Any other questions? So we will now leave ourselves, The court reporter is available the court reporter. that you to
12: 54PM
25 26 27 28
to do any readback
might think is necessary. answer any questions
And we will be available
that you think are -147
CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1 2 3 4
'2:55PM
GRAND JUROR GR12 (Grand Juror GR12) . Is it normal that you just start going down the various counts and then read them out and -MR. PIERSON: That is something that's completely up
6 7 8
9
'2: 55PM
to the grand jury's discretion. all collectively proceed. GRAND JUROR GR07 it that way, though? MR. PIERSON: jury. GRAND JUROR GR07 MR. PIERSON: information decision. GRAND JUROR GR07 Juror GR07) again.
That's something
that you
decide how -- what manner
that you want to
You don't have to do
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
Can you go right from the start? That is completely up to the grand
Thank you. of what it, it's your
It's just a question you want to handle
-- however
(Grand
So you're telling me that we don't have to go through everyone of the counts to find our decision. Well, you have to I mean, we have to Right?
'2:55PM
20 21 22 23 24
MR. PIERSON:
GRAND JUROR GR07
decide on each one of them, but we don't have to go through each one of them and read each one of them. MR. PIERSON: Exactly. If you look through them and you can make a decision collectively.
'2: 55PM
25 26 27 28
you've all seen the charges, individually; However
you can make a decision your decision.
-- that's
148 CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412
1
2 3
Does that make sense? GRAND JUROR GR07 GRAND JUROR GR06 GR06). If we rule on some counts as actionable are not, do you modify MR. PIERSON: indictment. that? and others It does. (Grand Juror
4
12: 56PM
5 6
7 8 9
How does that work? is is a proposed
What the indictment
If the grand jury decides we like this count
but we don't like that count, we want to add this count or subtract, that's something that is completely in your
12:56PM
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
discretion. Okay. A lot of questions.
(Proceedings were in recess from 2:57 p.m. until 3:49 p.m.)

---000---
MR. PIERSON:
I'm present
with all of the grand The what was the
jurors, and you've just asked us to come back. foreperson proposed has handed me back a copy of the
indictment,
which is signed on the last page by the
13: 49PM
20 21 22 23 24
foreperson. At this point we're going to try and check with Judge Wagoner in terms of what his schedule is and availability.
Jim Clinchard and we'll
is trying to get him on the phone right now, So if you could stand by
know in just a second.
13: 49PM
25 26 27 28
for a few minutes. (Proceedings were in recess from 3:50 p.m. until 4:05 p.m.)
---000---
149 CYNTHIA
J.
ELLERING,
CRR, CSR
(530) 621-7412

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1

GRAND JURY PROCEEDINGS

IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF EL DORADO

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 FOR THE PEOPLE: REPORTER'S

EXCERPT TRANSCRIPT SEPTEMBER

CYNTHIA J. ELLERING, CRR, CSR State License Number 9190

(DR. DOE): MR. PIERSON:

Would you state your name. Yes. I'm Dr.

(DR. DOE): (Dr. Doe). MR. PIERSON: And,

(Dr. Doe), for purposes

tell us where you were living at that time?

I was living in South Lake Tahoe on Washoan house.

sister, who was one.

was one at the time?

There was a field trip coming

I'm going to ask you specifically June 10th.

about the morning,

Do you recall leaving your house

to walk to school? 48 CYNTHIA J. ELLERING, CRR, CSR (530) 621-7412

I left the house -- made breakfast,

Carl, was in the garage.

You were going to school, but were you walking

to the bus stop.

the hill, and I just walked every morning

I don't remember what time it was.

you've been waiting breath and relax.

for this purpose

Doe), call you by that name?

fine, yeah. Doe), so you left for school. do. You're

leaving just like you normally the house.

You're walking out of is the school

About how far, if you remember,

Well, about how long does it take you to walk there,

I left the house.

I called to Carl that I'm leaving.

traffic down the hill.

there, and this car comes up behind

to ask for directions

And -- sorry ... Take your time. I'm

He gets out, and I stumble back into the bushes.

sitting now in the bushes,

on top of me, and I feel like there's 50

And I'm in the car. was from?

felt like a body, you know.

on top of me, too, like a blanket was really hot.

really hot. On the

And in the car, were you laying on the seat?

I was put on the floorboard

then something face down.

I don't know what happened I don't remember

the car pulling

I felt like I blacked

And that was sometime

during the trip in the car?

and just everything

showing you what's been -- a photograph as Exhibit Number

1 and ask you do you recognize

in that photograph? A. That's me. 51 CYNTHIA

pass these amongst

that's you, and that's you back in

about June 10th, 1991.

Yeah. I'm going to show you Number 2. Do you recognize the

area in that aerial photograph?

Jaycee Dugard's Grand Jury Testimony Transcript

Jaycee Dugard's Grand Jury Testimony Transcript

* Page 57 through Page 58 were removed by Court order. *