Full Go Hillsborough HCSO Report

Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office
Public Records Exemptions
Records are provided in accordance with Florida Statutes and the Public Records Law
Description of exempt records and statutory basis for any exemptions are provided below:
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ACCOUNT NUMBERS FS 119.071(5)b
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ACTIVE INVESTIGATION FS 119.071(2)(c)1
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AGENCY PERSONNEL INFORMATION FS 119.07(4)
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ALARM CALL VIOLATION FS 119.071(3)
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CHILD ABUSE FS 119.071(2)(h)1
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CONFIDENTIAL INFORMANTS/SOURCE FS 119.071(2)(f)
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CRIMINAL INTELLIGENCE INFORMATION FS 119.071(2)(h)2
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D.A.V.I.D FS 322.142(4)
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EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS E911 VOICE RECORDINGS - FS 365.171(12)
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FCIC/NCIC INFORMATION FS 943.053(2) & (3)
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JUVENILE OFFENDER RECORDS (CONFIDENTIALITY) FS 985.04(1)
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MEDICAL FS 119.0712(1)
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SEXUAL OFFENSE FS 119.071(2)(h)1 & FS 794.024
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SOCIAL SECURITY FS 119.071(5)5
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UNDERCOVER PERSONNEL FS 119.071(4)(c)
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OTHER Tax ID Number
Revised: G:/dos/hrb/RECORDS SECTION/COMMON/PROCEDURES/EXEMPTIONS Revised 02/23/16 JS4324
HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SHERIFF

GENERAL OCCURRENCE HARDCOPY
GO# HS 2015-691857 INACTIVE
ASSIST-1 ASSIST OTHER AGENCY
General Offense Information

Operational status: INACTIVE
Reported on: Oct-28-2015 (Wed.) 900
Occurred on: Sep-22-2015 (Tue.) 800
Approved on: Feb-26-2016 (Fri.) by: 3655 - St John, Thomas M
Report submitted by: 5603 - Hollis, Charles P
Org unit: Professional Standards Section PST00
Address: 601 KENNEDY BL E
Place: COUNTY CENTER
Municipality: TAMPA
District: T3 Beat: TF4 Grid: TA0144
Bias: None (no bias)
Special study: Applicability - N/A (Not Applicable)
Gang involvement: None/Unknown
Family violence: NO
Offenses (Completed/Attempted)
Offense: # 1 ASSIST-1 ASSIST OTHER AGENCY - COMPLETED
Location: Government/Public Building
Offender suspected of using: Not Applicable
By glawson at 2:51 pm, Mar 03, 2016
For: 4602
Printed On: Feb-29-2016 (Mon.)
By amedina at 12:38 pm, Mar 03, 2016
Page 1 of 1954

Related Image - Other Misc. Documents

Attachment Description: AL HIGGINBOTHAM, JR. INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, FLORIDA
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:
November 13, 2015/1037 hours

2015-691857
Corporal Charles Hollis, ABN 5603, Detective Trent Clark, ABN 173949, and
Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222593, interview Al Higginbotham, Jr., County
Commissioner
CPL. HOLLIS:
Today is November 13, 2015. The time is 10:37 a.m. This is Corporal
Charles Hollis, ABN 5603, Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office. This
interview is being conducted in reference to Hillsborough County
case number 15-691857 and in this is in reference to the Go
Hillsborough investigation. This interview is being conducted at the
county building downtown on the 2nd floor. Here with Commissioner
Higginbotham. Sir, would you state your full name, please?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Al Higginbotham, Jr.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And can you spell the last name?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
H-i-g-g-i-n-b-o-t-h-a-m.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And sir, you're aware our conversation is being recorded?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I have your permission?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
You do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. Also present for the interview....
DET. PORTALATIN:
For: 4602
Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222593.
DET. CLARK:
Detective Trent Clark, ABN 173949.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Commissioner, would you raise your right hand, sir? Do you swear or
affirm the information you'll provide today will be the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yes.
Page 2 of 1954

SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
Re: Interview of Al Higginbotham, Jr.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. So you are a commissioner with Hillsborough County.

How long have you been a commissioner, sir?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
As elected, in 2006, November.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And you've been reelected since then.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because are they 4-year?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I served two 4-year terms and then in 2014, I was elected to a

countywide seat and I'm in my... just finished my first year of 4-year
term.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Very good. And prior to being commissioner, some of your work

experience?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Prior to this, I was a motivational speaker. Traveled the country

promoting a book that I had written about an accident I had 20 years
ago. Prior to that, I was involved in the agg contracting business.
Prior to that, I was in real estate. Prior to that, I was an aide to a
congressman and cabinet officer, and prior to that I was in college.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Very good. Did you grow up in this area?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
In Plant City.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, very good.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Very good. Obviously, we're here about the Go Hillsborough

investigation and Mike Merrill requested the Sheriff's Office to look
into the procurement services or the process of how Parsons
Brinckerhoff is brought on and possibly any issues related to this and
that's, you know, where our scope is going to be primarily. So back in
2010 when the referendum was attempted, and correct me if I'm
wrong on any of, you know, the facts here. You were part of that
process?
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I was.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And I know it failed. What were some of the things you took
away from that failure in 2010?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I spoke in opposition to the referendum over 80 times, so I took a

strong stand. I did not vote for it. The reasons; one, philosophically I
have problems with the tax, but it was not conducted in public. It was
a deal that was cooked up behind closed doors and back rooms and
it was not fair to the citizens to ask them for their money and say we'll
figure the details out later.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And so with the creation of the TED Group, or the Policy
Leadership Group as it is known now, are you all still meeting? Are
you all still considered a group or...?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
We had our last meeting last week.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. Okay. So that was officially the last meeting?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I don't anticipate them calling another meeting.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. What was the purpose of forming that group?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
The intention, and I spoke about this during 2010 that if and when
this came back that I made a commitment publicly that we would
have a group that was transparent; a group that gathered input and
information from the public, and whatever the public's interest were,
whether was in a tax or alternate funding of taxes, whether they went
rail, bus, roads, or any combination thereof, that I would work hard to
see to it that we had that effort and that we made that effort.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So informing. Did you have input on how the TED Group was
formed or who would be a part of that?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
In the beginning and then.... I look at my job as an elected official as

two things; one a storyteller where I'd go out and talk about issues,
sell the community, and then that of a facilitator and that's where I get
people of like minds come and go as an interest together and then I'd
get out of the way, because elected officials too often hang around for
the publicity and that allows me to move on to other projects. So in
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
the beginning I was active and then had no involvement on the inner
workings since we got it rolling.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And in talking with Mike Merrill, he kind of in a way helped

form...
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
The group together. And primarily, what was, I guess, the purpose of
forming that? Just to give everybody's ideas and because essentially
if we are going to a tax referendum, the whole county and those cities
within that county would benefit from the funds.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Unlike what happened the first time, yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
That's why we had the cities at the table and representatives from
HART, because I'm the bus advocate. I used the bus for the first 2,
3 years I was in office on a weekly basis. Then my schedule became
such that I couldn't... it just wasn't practical to ride. But it was
important that the cities in particular be there, because the way plan...
and I assume it's come to us after the county attorney's drafted the
referendum and the accompanying ordinance, that it will be an
equitable split with the 3 cities, the county, and HART.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. In kind of jumping forward now, you all have had several
meetings and was there public outreach prior to Parsons Brinckerhoff
being brought on? Was there a way of trying to find out from the
public, you know, what their needs were?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I don't think we had any public meetings until they were hired.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
There may have been some at the staff level.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
But I don't recall it.
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So there was that wanting to get information out to find out
from the public what their needs were?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So in jumping to the August 2014 meeting, that's when Mike

Merrill was directed to go ahead and let's get somebody with
transportation experience. Do you remember that meeting?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Not the details, but yes, I know the meeting your referring to.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. In a transcript, you're quoted at the very end saying not to hire
a PR firm; specifically not to hire a PR firm. Do you remember why
you were so outspoken about that... about not wanting a PR firm?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
We needed someone with traffic and engineering experience to

gather public input to come back to staff, come back to the PLG and
to the commissioners with what the public needed and how do we
from an engineering standpoint make those components work? I
didn't think it was right for the county to hire a PR firm to go out and
start selling the public.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Had you heard discussions prior to that meeting that it looked
like the PR direction was going to be... that's where it was going to be
heading?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Were you aware if Mike Merrill had met with anybody from any
local PR firms or...?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
No, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. When you as board directed Mike Merrill to select a firm, were
you aware of how that process was going to be? How he was going
to select somebody?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I knew that we had a system in place where we had engineering firms

that had been pre-approved.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
And that's done for expediency. It just doesn't make sense to go to
bid on every job because it takes months to do, so he had a group in
that pool of engineers that were pre-approved to go to.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. When you all move forward with Mike to do this, was there a
sense of urgency to get somebody hired?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
From standpoint, I don't recall that I had a sense of urgency. I can't

speak for the others and I don't remember the atmosphere. Hagan
made... said we needed to get moving on this and moving quick. I
didn't see any reason to push it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So because they went ahead and chose from the 10.... You
know, they looked at a list of ones that were already under contract to
expedite the process instead of going through another procurement...
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
To cut down on time because if you're here in August 2014, the plan
was to get it on the ballot in 2016?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So that would've obviously slowed things down if they had gone

through a procurement, but you think that might have been a better
process. Obviously, given where we are now with....
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Well, hindsight....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
But it is a common practice for us to go the pool of contractors;

whether it's engineering or you know, somebody does road repair
work, storm water work. You got that pool that you go to.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And that was your understanding of... in this August 2014 meeting
that that would be who they would look at?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
The pool, yes.
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
The pool, yes? In talking with Mike, I understand... Mike Merrill, he
meets with the commissioners at least once a week. Does that seem
accurate?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Typically so.
CPL. HOLLIS:
When after this August meeting, I know we're talking, you know,
almost 2 years now and trying to remember back on certain things.
Did he share with you who was in the running for the selection?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I don't recall that he shared that with me.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Would that have been something that normally would have
been shared and knowing who possibly was in the running for a
particular project?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Not necessarily. Because you know the administrator and the charter
kind of is clear what our responsibilities are and so I would say that
he's delegated to make... it's delegated to him to make those
decisions. Maybe some commissioners would get involved or would
get involved in his daily... micromanage. I wouldn't do it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you have any influence on who was chosen for this project?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you make any recommendations to Mike or his selection team?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Looking back now, Parsons Brinckerhoff, HDR, HNTB, and RS&H;

those the 4 firms that they were ultimately looking at. Were you
aware that those were the firms in the running?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I don't recall, but I don't think.... I'm going to say no, I was not aware.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And just, I guess, would it be appropriate for a commissioner to text

Mike not to choose one of the four?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
It wouldn't be appropriate.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Now ultimately....
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
And....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Go ahead.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I'm trying to come up with a benefit of the doubt.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I'll just stick with that answer.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And obviously there's some text messages that have been
made public through public records requests during this process of
when Noah Pransky and others have made mentions of possible
issues with communications between commissioners and Beth
Leytham and that sort of thing, you know, sending Murman some text
messages were released where she's actually texting Mike Merrill not
to pick HDR. Are you aware of any problems that she had with HDR
that she was vocal about?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
In talking to some others that.... Because she at on the Tampa Bay

Water board during the time when I guess HDR, the reservoir, and
the cracks in the reservoir and there was a lot of issues with HDR
and a lawsuit. I mean, does any of that sound...?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I'm familiar with it. I sat on that board and I don't remember them
being the contractor, but I sat on the board. And I'm the one that
tipped off the media that there was a problem there because as a
new member I was trying to get a tour of the reservoir and I went to 6
to 8 months and was just buffaloed. And finally I mentioned to
someone, a member of the media, I said if your helicopters ever
there, fly over and see what's going on. And then they saw the cracks
and they saw the work that was going on in there at that time, but I
don't put a link personally with HDR and the reservoir issue.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And there were possibly some other reasons why HDR.... I'm
sorry. I'm not saying the reservoir issue is why they were not chosen.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Right.
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
In our talkings with people that had the decision making, that wasn't a
factor. In fact....
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I wouldn't think so.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No, well, plus there was a separate group within HDR that was
even.... You're talking about engineers here and that was a separate
issue.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So I'm not trying to make that comparison, but because Sandy

Murman had a history with HDR and in fact text Mike Merrill not to
pick HDR, do you think because as a elected official you're held to a
higher standard, would that an appropriate... would that appropriate
for her to do that?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I would say in that context if you knew there was a problem that was
related, you would want to say hey, make sure in your process that
you look at that and see if the dots connect, but as far as it being a
kill switch, if I was making the decision, it would've been a kill switch.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I don't know. Just understanding, you know, an elected official

telling, you know, Mike Merrill not to pick this person so she's.... I
mean is that, is that normal protocol I guess for commissioners to tell
decision makers not to pick somebody.... Even if they don't list a
reason. She did in the text that what they did at Tampa Bay Water
was criminal, so not to pick HDR.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
That's what she said?
CPL. HOLLIS:
That's what she said.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah. If you felt strongly about it, you should speak up. I don't recall
ever going to Merrill and saying don't pick or pick. Through the years
I've said, you know, here's a good person to look at for a potential job
or.... I don't remember any contracts. There may have been, but if
Sandy felt strong about it or anyone felt strong about it, they should
voice their opinion.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And ultimately, you know, Parsons was chosen for this contract
and then Beth Leytham is now been a person that has been...
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
accusations have been made that she had influence on Parsons
being chosen. Are you aware of any influence that she had?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
None.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did she come to you and try to get you to choose Parsons or try to
get your influence in any way?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I don't recall ever having a conversation with Beth Leytham about

anything; about the weather. I'm sure I have. I wasn't even sure what
she looked like until I started seeing her in the media.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
And actually people would characterize her attitude towards me as

bad. I don't why because I've never done anything that I know to tick
her off, but obviously I have.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, I don't know. I mean....
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But you've never to your knowledge met her?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I'm positive I have met her and spoken to her, but as far as sitting
down and saying let's have a meeting. I can't remember any meeting
I've ever had with her.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Are you aware of any... I mean I know it's been made public as
far as relationships she's had with certain commissioners, being
Sandy Murman, Ken Hagan, and then also Mayor Buckhorn. Are you
aware of any influence she placed on them or any other
commissioners or any other PLG members regarding Parsons?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Not that has been reported to me and since I'm not in that circle of
hers, I would have no reason to be in a room to read body language
or overhear conversations that would make me think that she was
trying to influence. Now what I've read now makes me think that there
may have been a pitch, but is there anything wrong with that?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, that's.... Yeah. And that's I guess a big question.
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Is there....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did she have influence by those that were making the decisions? You
know, Mike Merrill obviously has a group that's advising him on who
they think would be the best.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And did she have any influence there.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
And when I make a decision, you know, I will ask people whether it's
my wife or my aides or people I know that I have a level... have a
relationship with or have confidence in, I'd ask for their input.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. And is there anything.... Yeah, and that's the question. Is there
anything wrong with that?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I don't think there is.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And she's brought on to be their, I guess their PR person in a sense.

They subcontract her.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Are you aware if she had done any other work for Parsons prior to
the Go Hillsborough project?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
No. I've read since that there was a relationship of some sort or a
retainer, but I'm not aware of it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
If knowing she was under contract with Parsons prior to the award,
prior to them being.... Let's say she was hired on as a PR person for
them, a lobbyist if you will, or somebody that would go out and
establish relationship with Parsons Brinckerhoff and members of the
Tampa Bay region elected officials and knowing that, would that
cause people to be a little bit more cautious around her? Especially if
we're looking at Parsons now. They're one of the 10 firms. This
referendum is being considered.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Big firms hire PR people. Standard practice. I don't see an issue with
that. There is a line that gets crossed, it's not... I don't necessarily
clearly defined as to lobbying and PR, but it is common knowledge
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
that she is heavily involved in public relations with people who have
business before governmental bodies and I guess what you're after is
was she lobbying or was she simply doing PR work and it's a very
gray area that I think is being exploited.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, and you....
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
And I'm not trying to avoid your question.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, no, sir. I'm not seeing that at all.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You've been a proponent of the ordinance, a lobbying ordinance back

in '07 and it was, you know, revamped again.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Let me pull this up here. And I'm trying to understand. Yeah, there's a
gray area and you mentioned an article about there being loopholes
and issues. Like what specific loopholes?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
A lobbyist who represents a company that wants to give a

commissioner or an elected official a gift and just go say hey, give Al
tickets to the game. I haven't been to a Bucs game because I can't
afford it. So... and I've had those offers. Do I think that there's
something dishonest or inappropriate? No. Would I be offered if I was
not an elected official? No. Some of these people I've developed
friendships with through my 9 years here now, but I don't accept
those gifts. But that's the biggest loophole is if, okay, a lobbyist says
well there's a ban on gifts, so I just have my client, you know, give
whatever it is. Tickets, you know, meal, whatever.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is there a limit on...?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Now I'm having a junior moment. I have to go back and read.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No, no. It's okay.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
We do over.... We do have to report gifts over, I believe it's $200 and

there's a form that we file on a quarterly basis. I don't know if you're
aware of that or not.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes, sir.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Okay. And when I had accepted what is defined as a gift.... And I'll
give you an example. When I was going to China and India when I
was working on the Bollywood deal.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Tampa Bay.... Excuse me. Visit Tampa Bay paid my expenses and
the group, I think it's called Go Bollywood at that point, paid my
expenses. So that was business related. Probably most electeds
wouldn't have reported it. I reported that as a gift. So you can go and
check the gifts and you'll see that they come back to travel. I'm
working with trying to keep a company here right now that is a
supplier of rods and reels and other fishing gear and when I got
ready to leave, they said this reel is for you. It was a killer reel and I
would've loved to have had it, but wouldn't take it. And you know, I
could've reported it because it was probably a $300, $400 reel, but it
was just easier to say no.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Are there any changes that you'd want to make the lobbyist
ordinance?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
We need a clear definition on registering. We need to have a training

program for lobbyists so when they register, they have to go through
some type of a training class so they understand what, you know, the
rules and regs are. It might be easier to handle, you know, when I got
to the Sheriff's Office, I sign in. I'm not lobbying and when I go to
Verizon or some other big corporation, I sign in and that's probably
the best way to control it is to have everybody sign in a registry and if
they're lobbying, check the lobbying box off. But at least you'll know
that they made a call.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well....
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
And then how do you marshal phone calls and encounters or

meetings that are not face-to-face?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I don't know how you do it.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, just in our... looking at even the form that is to be filled out and
on Mike Merrill's floor I'm sure there's an area to fill out and looking at
that. You know, Beth has filled out the form, but not completely. So
there's not really a method of somebody to really check and see
okay, you filled in this. Oh, you missed this one here.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
There's really nobody there to do that.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Now have you looked at the actual form that they fill out or what goes
to the Clerk?
CPL. HOLLIS:
No. The actual physical form.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Okay. Because we get a quarterly report on consent agenda on

lobbyists who sign in and sometimes they'll be incomplete and I'll go
back and say you have an incomplete here. Why? And they will fill it
out. It will say like general meeting or introductory meeting and
someone along the way interprets that as incomplete because they
didn't put... and what that clerk or secretary felt was enough detail in
the end.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I got you.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Yeah, we pulled those that said incomplete and I

went back and I got the actual copies of the form itself.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Okay. Good. Well, she's not filling out. Why would she sign a lobbyist
form anyways?
CPL. HOLLIS:
I don't know...she was there to visit with certain commissioners, fills

out the lobbying form, but doesn't say specifically what she's there to
lobby for.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But if you're under contract, say with Parsons Brinckerhoff as their

PR person, is there a separate... can you separate yourself from...?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
She is.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
She's trying. Yeah. Trying to separate herself. But how can you
separate yourself if you're...?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I don't know.
CPL. HOLLIS:
If you're under contract and these are your scope of services and one
of them is to meet with members, elected members of the Tampa Bay
region to develop relationships. So how do you separate that from
you're just a constituent or you're just a citizen giving your opinion on
a matter even though you're representing Parsons also?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
That's what you're drilling down on. It's frustrating. I don't know how
you.... It comes down to the integrity of the people you're dealing
with. I spoke at an event last night and the guy... it was a Q & A, it
was the Temple Terrace Republican Club, and he said how does the
little guy know he's being protected down there? And he was actually
referring to me making the comment to the press a couple of days
ago about a fellow commissioner violating Sunshine and I said well,
somewhere somebody's got to get tired of it and say stop it. So it
comes down I think just to the integrity of the person that their
meeting with, the integrity of the person that they're representing, and
the integrity of the person who's filling out the form.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And there's a lot, I guess, required of you or any other elected official
of how to maintain certain records. Emails are easy. I mean that's
done.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But text messaging, especially on a person phone, I mean that takes

initiative from you or whoever...
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Accepting on how to preserve that. Mike Merrill we found was one of

the better ones. Like he downloaded the phone....
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I would expect Mike.... Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
He does a certain... you know, he has a process of how he does

those things, but he has to take the initiative to do that. So I mean
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that's a big requirement I guess of elected officials and those that are
in that position where they have to do those.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
And there was for a long time a period where people didn't think text
messages or something that went to your personal was considered,
you know, subject to 119, but there shouldn't be any excuse because
two years ago the legislature passed a law that requires us to take
ethics training every year. Are you familiar with that?
UNKNOWN:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And that was going to be my question again, you know, what training
have you received on ethics or Sunshine, 119, you know, as an
elected official? Are you getting, I guess....
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
There's no excuse not to understand it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
With the training that you're supposed to take and I have the
syllabus. I don't know if you're aware that I had proposed to take our
ethics training one step further. Because who's to say that I don't just
turn on the computer and let the tutorial run so if you can track it
down forensically like that and then say I took. Well, what I proposed,
and it was pushed back in there. I don't know if you followed that part
of the meeting, that we're going to do our ethics training in a public
meeting that's noticed and that we're going to not do the minimum
four. I talked about doing 8 hours, but we'll probably end up with 6
hours and do it in three, excuse me, in two 3-hour sessions and that
way nobody can skip out. But it was not received that well in the
board room. Were you aware of that?
CPL. HOLLIS:
I was not aware of that. No, sir.
DET. PORTALATIN:
We watched the meetings.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Okay. I was surprised....
CPL. HOLLIS:
That's why I have these guys in here.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I was surprised by their response and one of the commissioners who

objected to it, I wouldn't be caught dead saying that what he said
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about it was in essence I'm sending it up, but saying it's a waste of
time.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Who was that commissioner?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
White. Hagan had issues with it as well, but White's the one who
spoke out first. And Victor spoke out against it, but I don't think he
understood in the beginning what we were talking about.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But it's again trying to show the public that elected officials can be
trusted.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And here we're going through this training before you all to see what
processes we take.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And it appears to me, I mean the answer is yes. So you feel like
you're held to a higher standard because of the position you're in.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And that should be well-known to the constituents and citizens of the

county.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
It's hard to have friends as an elected official if you do it right. I don't

have a lot of friends. I know a lot of people, but as far as a guy to go
fishing with or go, you know, out to dinner with. I don't go out drinking.
I mean I drink, but I don't go out and drink. But from vantage point to
do it right, you've got to be pretty isolated from those friendships. I
don't mean that to sound wrong.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No, sir. No, I actually... I agree with you, especially in a position of law
enforcement because you have influence.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You have influence, so are they wanting to be a friend of yours

because of your influence or because of who you are as a person?
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MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Because of the title.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
And that maybe sounds jaded and cold.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
But once I'm no longer a commissioner, people won't care. They don't
and I get it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So if you had close friends prior to being in this position, then those
are obviously somebody you could trust?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
As opposed to now. I completely understand that.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I thank you for that insight.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Are you aware of any ethical issues or problems with; and I'm talking
with this process, with Parsons being brought on and the whole
PLG? Obviously, all the accusations that are being made, but are you
aware of anything?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
In the process of selecting the vendor, no. I think they followed the
steps appropriately and I would be surprised if Merrill was to deviate.
Now, the behind the scenes, you know, I suspected that with
Leytham and the other commissioners and maybe Merrill or Merrill's
staff. That meeting that they had in August where they kind, they
flipped and said we're going to go to one percent and Merrill started
floating to one percent versus a half a cent.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I read about that. Was this this past August?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
This past August.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
And that's when the process lost my support. It went behind closed
doors and I wasn't going to be a part of that. It started out as a pure, I
think a pure and good effort and it lost it's way. But after that closed
door session, whether it was on phone or they literally sat out, but
they started working up a deal without all commissioners input. I was
done with it. But I think if there is a violation it's in not releasing the
emails or the text messages. If there is, and it's so gray, a violation as
to registering as a lobbyist, then what does it matter? I mean, it's
nothing wrong with that. Lobbyists are a good resource for elected
official if you understand, you know, that that's what they're there for
and they're paid. But you know, you got a gray area, but the other
area is not, you know, giving the information up and were there
discussions with commissioners that were not in the Sunshine and
how do you prove that unless one of them is fed up with it and
decides to talk. And I can tell you all trying to look you all in the eye at
the same time, I haven't had any conversations with an elected
official about the Go Hillsborough selection process or anything
because I don't have a relationship with it. Not meaning Merrill.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
But with Leytham and the rest of them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Are you aware of any conversations that may have happened aside
from you?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
No. I'm not.... I have not heard through the grapevine. It would not
surprise me, but I have not heard anything.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
And that's the reason that I objected in public, commented publicly

about being, you know, approached prior to the organizational
meeting that I wasn't going to be part of a vote that was getting ready
to take place. I was putting my colleagues on notice. It's not
comfortable being on the second floor right now for me. So I pissed
some people off.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But I mean you're going with what you believe was right and from an
ethical standpoint.
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MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I mean you're... sometimes those are tough decisions.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You know? But I appreciate that insight. If they have any questions,
do you mind them asking?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Keep the recorder on and I give you permission.
DET. CLARK:
You mentioned.... Well, in the beginning you talked about your

involvement in the ordinance reference gifts and stuff like that. We
spoke to elected officials, well at least one elected official from Tampa
who described a similar process with theirs, which is a $100 gift and if
you receive a gift above that, then you must pay the difference. So for
example, he used an example of tickets and he said that those
tickets were worth $800 apiece then he would have to pay the
difference of those for a pair of tickets or for a single ticket. It's not
worth him to accept that type of gift. My question in light of accepting
gifts would be not just gifts as far as tangible gifts, but gifts in services
and I'll be direct about who I'm speaking about. I'm talking about the
Leytham Group of giving her service as far as ed ops, of talking
points, and everything else that with a professional consultant
normally does and charges for and we looked at some of her
contracts and they're at least the smallest one's always $5,000 a
month. So my question to you to put in that context, public officials
receiving services which normally that person charges for would that
be a type of service that a public official should report as a gift if it's
normally X amount of dollars a month for that service or whatever?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I would say yes, but it gets cloudy in that if your friend, and we talked
about friends in this business already, if your friends say, you know, I
got idea for you and let me help you flush it out and let me help you
with talking points is that an intentional violation? The cleanest way
would be to report it as a gift and there's a mechanism to do that
that's provided by the state on your financial reporting forms. I know
you guys... I assume you guys are familiar with that. I think it's gray,
but I've been aware and only because I've worked around Ken for,
you know, in my 9 years here, that he had talking points I assumed
that they were from Beth because it was related to the Go
Hillsborough, but I couldn't prove it and so is she just a concerned
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citizen who genuinely wants to help with something she believes in or
is she doing it because she's getting paid? I'm not trying to dutch your
question.
DET. CLARK:
I'm just trying to go there. Just put that there. Just wanted to get your
insight on it and then... because we're.... I obviously asked the
question because I'm concerned about a person who's under contract
to make friendships or acquaintances or relationships with public
officials. The person also is representing their clients to positions,
strategically position their client and then the person gives talking
points and does certain things. All those things that normally would
cost a lot of money to our officials here and other people that's come
out in the press. I mean, and directed to the talking points or taking
talking points that were developed by county that you have someone
who's paid to do talking points, paid well to do it, take those, critique
those, and then resubmit those before a county meeting. So that
person....
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I'd have a real problem with that what you're describing.
DET. CLARK:
Well, I would say if.... Because this is in the media, but if you take a
talking point before it comes to the board that a person on the outside
of the county as a county worker, the county worker's talking points
are made, those are critiqued. Resent that to a person on the board,
critiqued before they are spoken....
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Critiqued by the client or critiqued...? Who did the critique?
DET. CLARK:
By the PR person. I would say it this way, I would say do this way and
I would do this and then that critique is sent back or the talking points
are sent back in the manner that while that person's under contract,
that's where we're saying that we would like to have more of an
assessment to say that normally we would think that if the talking
points are made in house.... And I believe that was Liana Lopez.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Liana Lopez.
DET. CLARK:
Who makes the talking points and then that talking point is sent
outside.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
So Lopez gives a talking points to a commissioner.
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DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
And the commissioner sends them to....
DET. PORTALATIN:
Outside party.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Outside party. Leytham.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
And then she tweaks them.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
That's kind of sickening to hear.
DET. CLARK:
Then we just wanted your... if we can get a copy of that. I believe we

have it. We'll show it to you just to so we can say what.... Because of
your expertise in knowing that.... 2007 you spoke on the gifts, of the
lobbying issue. I think it was 2010, you had another push for refining
those things that you spoke on and then this year again you spoke on
issue with lobbyists and so forth and so on. I just wanted your opinion
on something like that because for me that's something that, that
stands out to me is....
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah. The first question I have is why is Lopez writing talking points
for a commissioner that's being presented in a meeting. When we go
to ribbon cuttings or things of that sort, they'll send us talking points. I
don't use them. I don't think I've ever used them. That's appropriate,
but to be writing commissioner's talking points to go out into a
commission meeting? That in itself is a problem. And then to have it
tweaked. Of course they're going to say well we're just friends and I
was wanting her to help me.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
So is he excepting professional services? Kind of brings to surface

what Rashid..the comment Rashid made. She's getting paid by the
client to push this. Makes you understand why citizens are always
upset with us.
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DET. CLARK:
Well, that's what we're drawing down on is if there's a contract in
place to have a relationship and strategically place your client in a
position to get contracts and then something....
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
That's lobbying.
DET. CLARK:
Well, that's what I wanted to get at to say what is... is that consulting?
Is that lobbying? Because she had defined herself in the press on
those particular issues as being a constituent and she stated that the
only difference between her that if she's not lobbying is because she
pops in and out. Whatever that means. We haven't gotten clarification
on that, but the difference between lobbying....
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Lobbyists pop in and out all the time.
DET. CLARK:
Yeah, but she said the reason why her behavior is not lobbying is
because she just pops in and out and that was on open source
information on a news reporter asked her a question and we're going
to have to get clarification later on that. But I just wanted your opinion
on that for clarification because I thought that type of behavior is
troubling.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yes.
DET. CLARK:
So we're....
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
You've got through taxpayer money.
DET. CLARK:
Did you find that form?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Somebody's being paid... somebody is being paid indirectly to

manipulate a commissioner to sway public opinion on a tax that is not
very popular.
DET. PORTALATIN:
The information we have here or this document

we have here is not related to Go Hillsborough. It has something to
do with a homeless initiative and that's what this report was sent.
This report was a story from... if we follow the trail, it looks like it
came from or to Liana and then it went to Sandy Murman's care and
then from there it was sent to Beth Leytham and then the paragraphs
in pink are the edits that were made by the Leytham Group.
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MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Okay. So this is about a comment she was going to make at a
homeless issue not a Go Hillsborough?
DET. PORTALATIN:
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Correct.
Okay.
DET. PORTALATIN:
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
And not related to Go Hillsborough.

Alright. Now I'll retract what I said about why was a staffer doing
talking points. But I did say if it was to a ribbon cutting or something, I
get that part of it.
DET. PORTALATIN:
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Right.
But if it's to go into the chambers and debate an issue or into a
meeting where we're going to be casting votes, staff from my position
shouldn't be doing that.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Right.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
But the first step, Liana preparing I don't see any problem on that.
Now sending it to Beth, I didn't know that Sandy had that kind of
relationship with her.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So if she did, I mean, she does.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So back to your point, we're just friends. She's just helping me out.
But in looking.... I mean this is a lot of work, so do you do this much
work for a friend or is that, is that more of a gift or a service?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
My head's spinning.
DET. CLARK:
And the reason why I'm saying that is because that's what we found
there, but we're still digging through all the text because the text and
everything have been slow to come because there was a question
about what is private and what is not.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah.
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DET. CLARK:
But if this is a behavior what elected officials thought was private and
this, from our understanding, should be public, but what.... Did that
behavior there...
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Is that report...?
DET. CLARK:
Blend into the present situation?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I don't know. I mean....
DET. CLARK:
You don't know.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah.
DET. CLARK:
Yes sir.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
And understand I have a dry wit an that was... I wasn't being

sarcastic to you. I just.... Okay. Homeless person....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. This is just basically a big PowerPoint presentation, so Sandy

sent it to Beth.
DET. PORTALATIN:
This is Beth's reply back with the work that she's

done.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Now didn't Beth sit on the Homeless Committee group as well?
CPL. HOLLIS:
I believe so, yes.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
So would that not be something she was doing as a member of the

committee?
DET. PORTALATIN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Could possibly be.

Now as far as talking points and receiving talking points on the Go
Hillsborough thing or if you're knowing an agenda item is coming and
like, here's the agenda. There's an email sent out. Here's the agenda
item before the meeting actually happens just to get make sure she's
aware, hey, this is what is going to be discussed from one
commissioner to her. Is that an issue? I mean, are you all privy to
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information obviously prior to a board meeting knowing what the
agenda is going to be before...?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
If she said, if Beth says Commissioner Hagan.... I'm just using

names.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Is going to have this position and she's telling that to Commissioner

Murman, from my interpretation, if I understand your question, that's
a Sunshine violation. She's conveying... you know, she's not.... And I
have citizens come in, not all the time, but who will say well, you
know, White told me he was not going to vote for whatever and it's
always wait, wait. But now if I wanted to initiate and carry that further,
then there's a Sunshine issue. But if she's purposely the conduit for
communication.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Then those guys have a Sunshine issue. Am I answering your

question?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes, sir.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Have you talked to Mary Helen Ferris?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
She can be helpful on some of this...alot of this for you.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. Yeah. We've taken to her and Chip as well.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But again, you know, we respect you've been in this position a long
time and so to get your insight obviously on the process.
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MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Was she a... are you saying she was a conduit between two
commissioners on an issue?
DET. PORTALATIN:
With respect what we were just showing you, no.

We don't we were using this as an example.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because obviously, you know, the argument can be well no, she's a
personal friend of mine. Just help me out with this or....
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
And she sits on the committee.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Or she may sit on the committee, so she has the insight and this is
what she does for a living. I don't think anybody can deny that.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Same with Parsons Brinckerhoff. I mean, they were hired for a

specific service because they're qualified. I don't think anybody can
deny that. It's just the process and was the process tainted. So and
that's obviously what we're getting at. Do you have any...?
DET. CLARK:
Yeah.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Okay.
DET. CLARK:
The other email, the ones that were... the one's that's in the paper.
You know which one I'm speaking about... where...the one where
Beth mentions the other two commissioners.
CPL. HOLLIS:
DET. CLARK:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, the text message?

Yes.
Spoke to Ken and Sandy reference transpo and communications?
DET. CLARK:
Yes..that date...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, that's the September or the August one.
DET. CLARK:
I believe it's October, August 24th.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No. That was the August 19th text.
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DET. CLARK:
The August 19th text. And again, I would just like to show you the text
and say how that type of text is received with... should have been
handled to bring it to Sunshine.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Okay. This is...?
CPL. HOLLIS:
This is Mike Merrill's to and from Beth Leytham.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Okay. So Beth is writing to Merrill.
CPL. HOLLIS:
To Merrill. Yes, sir.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
This reads to me like she's spoken to Ken and Sandy about getting
their support on hiring an engineering firm, which is in fact going to
turn around and hire the public relations firm without anybody
knowing about it other than those four. Is that...?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, this is actually 2014, so August 19, 2014. So August 12th was
the PLG meeting, you know, moving Mike Merrill, directing him to do
that and so we, obviously we haven't had this put in context by the... I
mean obviously by Mike. He's put it in context because he received it.
He didn't respond to it, but he received it and Beth Leytham we have
to get her to put it in context. But if you... just knowing the
environment this text is surrounding after the PLG meeting,
transportation, communications would begun with the Go
Hillsborough project or the.... And then it's just interesting in the
meeting you mention specifically not a PR firm and here's she's
naming two PR firms. Ashley Walker....
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Coincidental.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I didn't.... You know this kind of ticks me off in a way, but my instinct
you don't want a PR firm, but I didn't....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, but this is afterwards. But yeah, it was just interesting that you
mentioned that in the meeting specifically.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
But Ashley Walker and then Adam Goodman is who this is referring
to.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Okay. I know who Adam is.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So she's expressing her concerns, you know, about having a

PR firm and to go with somebody with experience. Well, obviously
she doesn't come out and name Parsons, but one, that's who's she's
representing based on a contract....
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
And if they have Good man in there as a PR firm, then she doesn't
get the PR work and she's going to get the PR work when this goes
private sector because they're going to say well, she's got a handle
on this from day one. Yeah, that is coincidental that I would mention,
make my comment, but it's also correct. You don't want a PR group in
there. As I said earlier, you know, I looked at bringing in an engineer
who understood traffic issues and could help us gather the
information, not shape a message. What do you think she means by
a sandbox, one big sandbox?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh that was, I think that was Mike's response to her. This back, well,
August... yeah, 13th. Yeah, Beth's staying out of your sandbox, so I
don't know, his play area, his environment.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. We talked to him about that. I just can't remember offhand

specifically what the context.... But you know many of the texts to
Mike from her he does not respond to or if he does, it's, you know,
thank you. That sort of thing. Now Commissioner Sharpe when he
was here, were you aware of any relationship that he had with Beth?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
No. I heard him make reference to her a time or two, but I don't know
of any relationship that they had personal or professional or political.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Now if Beth here is saying I have spoken with Ken and Sandy, if Ken
Hagan or Sandy Murman were the ones that contacted her as
opposed to her contacting them would that change Sunshine or
change...?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I don't think so.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
If Ken and Sandy were using Beth as a conduit, absolutely, but as far
as who reached out first, I don't see.... As I understand Sunshine,
maybe I'll end up in an orange jumpsuit, but I don't see that as a
Sunshine issue unless she's a conduit.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright, sir.
DET. CLARK:
And again just for clarification, if she's saying this is these two elected
officials or she spoke to them reference this, if she's trying to say hey,
I spoke to them reference this or whatever. They're on this side here.
That would only be considered polling if she's going between the two
people who can make a... who have an ability to vote on the issue.
For example, Mr. Merrill doesn't have a voting ability to vote on an
issue, well on this issue. He can just advise who he selected. Right?
But the two council people that... or commissioners, I'm sorry, if she's
going in between the two people who can vote or polling between
who else is on it, that would be more of an issue, but that itself
doesn't look like polling, correct? Or does it?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Let me tell you what I heard you say.
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
If she's just trying to get a headcount on how people are going to

vote, I don't see a problem with that. If she is recruiting votes by
saying we got... and she goes to one... you know, one of these two
and says we've got you. You and Sandy are with us. I'm going to
Sharpe. And then if there's a conduit and she's providing back
channel communication, that's a Sunshine issue. But if she's counting
heads, I do that out there and I have... I will, for an example, in the
meeting where we vote on the chairman, I said up front I said I'm
going to be supporting Sandy. It's in the public. I can do it. And now
my colleagues who might be on the fence know how I'm voting.
That's the arena that it's supposed to be done in. And then I watch
body language and pay attention to what's said to see where votes
are going to fall. That one happened pretty quick, so it was a done
deal.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I don't know that I see anything here other than.... If she was conduit
then there's a problem.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And the fact that obviously Mike is the one with the decision making
as far as presenting it to the board, hey, this is Parsons Brinckerhoff
who we chose. This is who we selected and then maybe the
presentation to you all, the board there in October and it's basically
okay. You all gave the green light for them to move forward.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I would feel she betrayed Mike if she was swaying Mike to make a
decision on Parsons knowing that she was getting paid. I doubt he
knew.
CPL. HOLLIS:
He did not.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
He did not. She betrayed him and the board by not being up front
saying I'm getting paid for these guys and I know that I'm going to get
the contract. Now I'm assuming that she knows that she's getting the
contract. It would be foolish not to think that was not the case.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah and specific...
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
But to me that's a betrayal of Merrill.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I mean obviously she didn't come right out say Parsons, but
describes their ability and just the direction to head away from a PR
firm. But the thing was you already directed him to do that, so really
the information she's sharing to Mike that's why he doesn't... he
explained to us why he didn't respond to her. I mean this is stuff he
already knew.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
He wasn't going for a PR firm at the direction of you and the board
and they were looking, you know, they were looking at the
engineering firms they had already under contract.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But it's nice to get your insight obviously because you have, I mean
you have knowledge of the inner workings of all of that.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
DET. CLARK:
And that type of language and that type of a text is not per se
personal language. That is talking about business that's going to go
in front of the board.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Right.
DET. CLARK:
So at that point there, whether that conversation happens, Mr. Merrill

has been very diligent about preserving all of his emails, you know,
for situations like this. It's not that it could be under scrutiny. Some
have argued that those type of emails that came out later.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
You mean text.
DET. CLARK:
Or I mean text or emails.... Emails too, right? Because that was a

subject to a threat of a lawsuit that some of the emails came out. So
everybody's defended that these forms of communication were
private, but now after avoiding giving those out for several months to
the press or to the public, now text like these come out which should
have been in the Sunshine in the first place. You know, and that's
why...
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
They should've been turned over when they were asked for.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah.
DET. CLARK:
They should've been turned over immediately and there should've been a
process to preserve that and whether it's in conversation or digital,
you know, because the Sunshine Law, from my understanding began
in 1907, so well before text. So the....
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
And I didn't know that.
DET. CLARK:
Well, unfortunately, we've been studying a lot. But what we have here
is we have.... So everybody's already about text and technology and
so forth and so on, but the heart of the matter is that technology
cannot supersede the intent of the law, which is to inform the public
and keep everybody, everything in the Sunshine and that's on the
Attorney General's website that technology does not defeat
Sunshine. The intent is on Sunshine. So conversations like these are
business related conversations.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Right.
DET. CLARK:
And that's all I wanted your opinion on and I got a little wordy with it,
but that's where I was going with that. Because we're still in
apparently a fact finding mode.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah.
DET. CLARK:
We don't have all the answers here.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Well, if I'm.... I look at this as public, subject to 119.
DET. CLARK:
Okay.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Except maybe it took that long for me to understand your question,

but this is a 119 discussion. Now what Ken and Sandy may have with
her in their records, it's going to be up to them to share with you.
DET. CLARK:
And also that's where I'm going with the question is because that...
and that's preserved by Mr. Merrill because that was preserved. The
others have not preserved that conversation as far as we know. We
want that the other end of the discussion.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
What she had to say with them?
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah.
DET. CLARK:
And that's where we could put together as a whole piece of

reconstructed conversation to see what it is or what it isn't. But on
face value there, that is a discussion about something that's going to
go eventually to the board.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Okay.
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I made that hard didn't I?
DET. CLARK:
No. I did. I should've been more concise.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
And we had mentioned earlier when we were discussing the text from
Sandy to Mike about HDR. That's just a hard copy I wanted to show
you. Now because this is from Mike Merrill. This is his copy. So is it
your understanding that, you know, Mike's responsible in maintaining
this copy, but then Sandy would also be responsible for maintaining a
record?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I'm not an attorney. You have the record.
CPL. HOLLIS:
We have the record.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
And somewhere along my 9 years, I have probably lost or in transfer

dropped the stitch somewhere, but if it was with Merrill, I would know
because of the discussions I've had with Merrill and the talks and
complaints I've had in particular with Mary Helen. I've complained to
her a lot about Sunshine violations and 119 violations. I would say
well, I know I'm covered because Merrill's got it. Maybe I shouldn't
admit under oath that I probably dropped the stitch somewhere. I
mean....
DET. PORTALATIN:
Because we've also heard that from the

attorneys.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah.
DET. PORTALATIN:
That if you are under the understanding that it is

being preserved by another member of that conversation then you're
covered.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. But it's still a responsibility of....
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You or whatever elected official to maintain records.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
But... and I mentioned integrity of the people you deal with. These
two here and what they have would be interesting to close the loop
on that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
DET. CLARK:
To get an understanding.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
To put it all in context.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because it's easy to make assumptions just based on text and to be

fair, that's what's been done by the news reports. They've taken text
and they've made assumptions based on the text to say that this,
this, and this happened, but our job is to look at everything.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
To see if it can be explained as to no, no, this is what I meant or this

was the context of the conversation and to see was their intent there
to deceive. Was their intent there to do that, but I think we're about
ready to wrap.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I'm not rushed. I mean, I'm fine, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I have to shift from time to time, but I'm alright.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright, sir.
DET. CLARK:
My... if it's okay... my last one would be not to go into a full, you know
lengthy thing, but just some bullet point type recommendations that
you would have for moving forward to eliminate the cloudy or the gray
areas that you've spoken about during this issue here. What would
be the best, easiest course to go to?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
First off; everybody who walks in the door signs in and who they're
meeting with and purpose of the meeting. I mean, you know, Devin
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
Higginbotham Al Higginbotham...spouse. Beth Leytham, Hagan,
baseball or Go Hill.... Then I think a training, an ethics training that
exceeds the minimal standard of 4 hours should be conducted here.
The lobbyists who register to do business, there should be some type
of a training class. Now when you get into defining who's a lobbyist,
who's a friend, I don't know how you resolve that other than you
depend on the integrity of the people that work here because they're
hired or they're elected or have interaction. And you guys are, you
know, in a business to find what's wrong and keep people from doing
it again. But I don't know how we fix that, that integrity side.
CPL. HOLLIS:
It's incumbent on the responsibility of that person and integrity is...

that can be a big issue.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah. And Mary Helen will tell you frequently I have vented with her
about, as I mentioned, Sunshine and 119 because I've known when
I've gone out to vote, couldn't prove it, but discussions had been had
and deals made and I get beat on issues that I was, you know,
advocating for. I mean, just common sense you can look at it and see
it. It's like Victor for the last 2 or 3 weeks wouldn't look me in the eye;
was avoiding me. I knew something was up. I mean I'm not stupid. I
tell people I might be bald headed and crippled, but I'm not stupid
and that's not why I wear a hat. I don't know why I'm looking at you.
(Laughing)...But you get a sense for it and it's very frustrating to me.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, I mean, body language can speak louder than our own words.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
For sure.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
And that's important out there because my universe is 4 votes and I

go out there and watch, you know, my colleagues and listen and then
when I think its appropriate like I mentioned, I told the board how I
was going to vote right off the bat in that meeting. So what else?
CPL. HOLLIS:
No. I think, like we even talked about earlier, it's always easier to
Monday morning quarterback the whole process.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
And if we could do it all over again what would you change or change
anything about the process?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
It's not broken. It's got to be fixed though. Or it's got to be molded into
avoid this kind of concern where the public is interested. Someone to
manage policy and money and I take it serious in the way that I think
I've been charged to take it. As I'm reading this and thinking about it, I
think there was a betrayal by Beth where Merrill's concerned and
that's too bad because Merrill's a nice guy and I don't see... I can see
in his body language that he's really torn up with this.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, this referendum or this whole process has been going on for a
long time.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And then to get close to the finish line and then have a lot scrutiny
placed on it and Mike trying to eliminate some of the scrutiny by... you
know, we've done this and this and this, but let's give it to some other
eyes to look at because we feel we're doing right just preserve the
trust. So I understand why he's, you know, doing what he's doing.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
To try to preserve the integrity and the trust of the process. It's a long
process for us obviously.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Having to understand and familiarize ourselves with what you all do.
You know, we're learning more and more about county government
and the process everyday.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
There's a lot a commissioner has to do people don't realize.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes, sir.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I've read, I keep doing records and since the beginning of the year,
I've read 19,000... read or reviewed 19,600 pages of briefing material
before I go into cast the 290 some odd votes that I've cast this year. I
mean, 67 hour a week job if you do it right.
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well that's the thing and the thing if you do it right with integrity, but
there's a lot incumbent on you to do that.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, sir, we appreciate your time. If we had another question down

the road would we be able to talk to about that? Would that be okay?
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
With the recorder on.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No problem.
MR. HIGGINBOTHAM:
I'm just glad you didn't have to use your guns.
CPL. HOLLIS:
That was never our intent. But we appreciate your time. I'll go ahead
and stop the recording. It's 11:52 a.m.
End of interview.
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Attachment Description: 2010 LEYTHAM_PB CONTRACT
Reference Number:
CONFIDENTIAL TRADE SECRETS FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT INVESTIGATION ONLY
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Attachment Description: 2014 MERRILL-LEYTHAM TEXTS
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Attachment Description: ROBERT BUCKHORN INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:
December 8, 2015/1055 hours

2015-691857
Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222593, interview Bob Buckhorn, Mayor of
Tampa
CPL. HOLLIS:
This Corporal Charles Hollis, ABN 5603. This interview being

conducted today is on Tuesday, December 8, 2015. It's 10:55 a.m.
this interview is being conducted in reference to the Go
Hillsborough investigation. Also present for the interview.
DET. PORTALATIN: Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222593.

DET. CLARK:
CPL. HOLLIS:
And this interview is being conducted today at the Mayor's Office, City of
Tampa; 306 East Jackson Street. And also present, ma'am? Would
you state your name?
MS. BAUMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Ashley Bauman, City of Tampa.

And spell your last name.
MS. BAUMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
B as in boy-a-u-m-a-n.
And your title?
MS. BAUMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
For: 4602
Director of Public Affairs.

Thank you.
And Mr. Mayor, if you would state your name?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Bob Buckhorn. B-u-c-k-h-o-r-n. Mayor of Tampa.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And Mr. Mayor, you're aware our conversation is being recorded?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yes, I am.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I have your permission, sir?
Page 112 of 1954

SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
Re: Interview of Mayor Bob Buckhorn
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yes, you do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. And would you raise your right hand, please? Do you
swear or affirm the information you'll provide today will be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yes, I do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. And Mr. Mayor, how long have you been mayor of
Tampa?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Was elected in... or sworn in April 1, 2011.
CPL. HOLLIS:
2011. And you replaced Mayor Pam Iorio.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Mayor Pam Iorio.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And prior to that, what were you doing? In public office or...?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
I was a partner in a large public affairs firm from 2003 until about
2008 and then I set up my own company. Prior to that, I was
elected twice to the Tampa City Council. Prior to that, 8 years as
the assistant to the mayor from 1987 to 1995.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So you've had several years in the public office arena?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
I have. Yes, I have. Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Very good. So in 2011.... So prior to that in 2010, Hillsborough

County attempted a tax referendum, which ultimately failed. Did
you have any part in that?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
No. I did not. I was not in public office at the time. I was supportive
of it, but was not involved in it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And then we kind of jump forward to the PLG or the TED
Group. I know it's kind of interchanged. What role did you have in
that forming if any?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
I was, by virtue of being the mayor, one member of a

multijurisdictional board set up largely at the request of Mike Merrill,
County Administrator, who wanted all the jurisdictions at the table
-2-
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
and wanted us to go through a fairly exhaustive deliberative
process to identify transportation needs, transportation challenges,
transportation opportunities, and really create in hopes of moving
forward with the referendum a pretty compelling story as to why we
had to do something different. And we were going to build off the
mistakes of the 2010 election; build off the mistakes of Greenlight
Pinellas, and hopefully engage the public early and letting them
make the decision for themselves and allowing them to decide for
themselves once they were given the facts and this was really a
fact-finding mission, to prepare and to set the table for a
referendum in 2016 hopefully.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So there were discussions during the meeting of kind, I

guess kind of a time table when to re-approach the referendum
attempt on the ballot?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Well, we knew that we had a window. We knew that the Pinellas

Greenlight effort had just failed. We knew there was a presidential
election coming up. There are some reasons why potentially you
want to do it in an election cycle when there's a big turnout as
opposed to a smaller election where you get the hardcore partisans
on either side.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
And so, you know, the intent was that if we were going to go to a
referendum, 2016 for a lot of reasons; one, we had the pressing
transportation problems, but more importantly it was a presidential
cycle, and so you would have a big turnout on both sides of the
aisle.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. Okay. And so there seemed to be somewhat of a sense of

urgency, obviously gathering all the facts that you could, but then
sense of the urgency of getting that information out to the public to
essentially have a positive turnout at the ballot for the referendum.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Well, I think what we realized early on is that what happened in

2010, they hadn't set the predicate. They had to lay the groundwork
for why it was important. They hadn't been able to tell the voters
exactly what they were going to get in a very concrete
neighborhood, down to the neighborhood level, you know, whether
it's an intersection at Bruce B. Downs and Cross Creek. So it was
-3-
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
important to us that we start early and that we be able to develop a
plan that was not just sellable, but that people could buy into and
list all of the options that were available to them; list the backlogs
so they knew what the pressing needs were, and just go to the
public and say look, it's your choice.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
All we're asking you to do is take a look at the facts and make the
appropriate decision, but we knew it was going to take a lot of
legwork and a lot of grassroots effort to do that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Now because this is kind of a unique situation; you had the three
mayors, including yourself, you had all the county commissioners,
and then the director of HART, Mike Suarez, were there still rules
that had to be applied from a commissioner or city council
standpoint as far as communications that were happening?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
We were told it was not a Sunshine group.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
In the beginning and the only folks that would have been, if it had
been a Sunshine group, the only folks that would have been
affected by that was any conversation between the county
commission because ultimately the cities really had no role in the
vote.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
I mean we had no role in the procurement, we had no role in the

process, we had no role in the vote. That was the county
commission decision and so they couldn't talk to each other, but
that didn't preclude any of the others from doing it. Now I can tell
you from my perspective as a matter of rule, I don't anyway just
because I've been around long enough to know that I... you know,
conversations with fellow electeds even in a gray area I try to limit
to the weather.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
-4-
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Just because I'm, you know, cautious about doing that, but we were
told that it was not a Sunshine group.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But particularly, if it was pertaining to commissioners.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
It would have been the county commission.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Now were there conversations that you could have had then with
the commissioners apart about this particular issue?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
As I understood, I could. Like I could go to the commission in a

public meeting and advocate on behalf of this, so I wasn't
precluded from doing that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
I mean I.... And because I don't sit city council, that doesn't apply to
my relationship with city council members either. They can't talk to
each other, but I can talk to them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
So... but yeah, we were told from the get go that it was not a
Sunshine group; we're not covered under that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Who was kind of the main person are you aware that kind of
orchestrated the PLG or...?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Mike Merrill.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Mike Merrill.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did he have any assistance with anybody that you're aware of?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Not really. I think Mike... because the county has the most pressing
needs. I mean you all drive the county roads all the time. You guys
know how bad it is out there and so I think, you know, Mark Sharpe
was on the commission. The biggest advocates were largely
Sharpe and then Mike and Mike knew that he was never going to
get ahead of the problems. I mean there was no way given current
-5-
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
revenue sources that any of us were either going to fix the
problems that we had or move forward with additional solutions, so
I think it was probably in the beginning. Maybe at Mark Sharpe's
request, but it was largely the county administrator that pulled all of
us together and made the calls.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And Commissioner Sharpe had been involved in the 2010. So he

was kind of aware of what needed to take place.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yes, he was. Very involved. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So we kind of jump ahead to the August 2014 and that's really

where....
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Now you're going to make me remember that far back?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, that was the one meeting....
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
That's the first meeting?
CPL. HOLLIS:
No, no, no. That was the main meeting I guess when as a group
you all directed Mike Merrill to select an outside company to help
with the public outreach. So just kind of take back to that if you can
kind of remember that time frame.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
If I can remember. If you sat through as many meetings as I did,

Corporal, you would die.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I'm sure. I'm sure. You've been through quite a bit and thankfully we
were able to go back and look at transcripts and see that thing.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. Yeah. And that, you know, that's why we put it on TV and
that's why we broadcast it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. Well, it's a great opportunity if you can't make it to the

meeting, you just flip on your TV or your computer and you can
watch it.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So then in the August meeting, just remembering directing Mike

Merrill, there seemed to be a sense of urgency and that it hasn't
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
been explained as to why ultimately Parsons is chosen, but the
method that Parsons was chosen was the direct select from
companies that were already under contract with the county. So did
you get the sense that there was a sense of urgency?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
I think for those of us at the 30,000 level, there was a sense of

urgency in the sense that there was some discussion about when
the appropriate time to go to ballot was. There was some
discussion that potentially you could do it in the spring of 15 when
the city had an election and then all you would have to do is add
the county precincts on to that election because they were... we
were already having an election so you know that would have
lessened the cost of it. So initially there was some sense of
urgency that we wanted to move quicker than... to get to the ballot
language than we ended up doing. I don't know that there was a
sense of urgency in terms of the selection process because that
was a county process, but yeah, we were... I think most of us....
And I don't make any bones about it, I'm a big supporter of this.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
We need it. The city needs rail. I've got to have the ability to get this
stuff done, so I went into this whole process knowing full well where
I was going to end up. I've been trying to get a referendum here for
a while, so I had been very forceful in my support of going to the
ballot at some point because we don't have any options. So I don't
know... I mean the selection process was for most of us was alright,
that's the county's problem. You figure out how you do it. I'm not
involved. I don't have a vote. I don't care. Let's just get this thing to
ballot.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Okay. Because just having the transcript, you know, you do
come out and say hey, let's move forward now.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
I was ready to go. I think my quote was put me in, coach.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I remember that. Yes. There was some of that. There was just
about when you first initially speak, just hey, we need to bring
somebody in and obviously, not something the government does
well.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah.
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
We need to find the people that could do it. We'll pay them what
they need or what it takes and to do this and do it efficiently.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. Because what happened in 2010 is, and bare in mind I was
watching this from afar so I hate to be critical, is in essence the
politicians said we're from the government. Trust us. We'll do right
by you if you give us this money.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
The voters don't trust us. They don't... you know, so they approach
it from the top down as opposed from the grassroots up and I knew,
I think I'm correct, that if we were going to pass this this time, it had
to be a grassroots movement. It had to be engaging the public
before you made the decision and told them what was good for
them, which is what happened in 2010.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
So I think, you know, certainly from where I sat, it was important

that we laid that groundwork before we actually went out and said
that we were going to have a referendum and that we were going to
do this.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So in turn, the group... you make the motion or you may have
seconded the motion.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Ken Hagan made it. Anyway, motion was made. It was supported
by everybody unanimously and essentially, he's telling Mike Merrill
let's move forward in bringing somebody from the private sector.
Were you aware of who they were looking at selecting?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Well, I figured it was the same old group of consultants that have
been around, you know, county government, city government, state
government for years. I mean there's probably 10 or 15 engineering
firms that do this for a living and any one of them could do it, but
again, I wasn't.... You know, it would've come off the county bid list.
It wouldn't have come.... The city wasn't involved in it, so I knew
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
that they were all circling out there in hopes of getting a piece of the
business and I didn't care. I mean it didn't matter to me.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Were you aware of anybody in particular that was in the running?

Did you hear who it might have been?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
I heard probably 5 or 6 different groups.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Was Parsons Brinckerhoff?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Parsons. Yeah. Parsons was the obvious one. Parsons has done a
lot of work around here and they do good work.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, no. There's.... And I've said this many times, you can't look at
Parsons body of work and what they've done in the past and say
that they weren't qualified for this project.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
They're absolutely qualified.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I know there's been some discussion of the Riverwalk, the

InVision Project where Parsons was a subcontractor for AECOM.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But to go back to the question, there essentially was a list of 10 that

they narrowed to 4, so were you aware of the 4 who they were?
No?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I'm sorry. I just...
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. I forgot. No. I mean, I don't know what their list
is. I don't know who's on it. I assume it's the same people that I
deal with, but since I wasn't involved in the selection process that
was their call.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. HDR was another agency.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. They've done a lot of business with us. HNTB has done a lot
of business.
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. Well, they were also part of Greenlight Pinellas from my
understanding.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And then RSNH.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did you have any influence on Parsons being selected out of
the process?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
No. It's not my call. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, did you make a phone call to anybody?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you know who was making the decision?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
I figured it was Merrill and the commission and their procurement

people.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
But so no, I didn't have a role in it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you have a relationship with Mike Merrill?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Somebody you could call up and make recommendations to?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Well, I mean I don't normally and he doesn't

call me and make recommendations for vendors, but yeah, I've got
a great relationship with Mike.
CPL. HOLLIS:
As mayor, even with city council members, if there is a vendor that

is applying for a project, is it appropriate just to give your opinion
hey, that would be a good person to do it?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
You mean a council member calling me?
- 10 -
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Calling you or you calling a council member and give, hey, this is
my opinion? I've seen the work they've done before. I think they'd
be a good one.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Generally no. I can only speak for the city side of things. I mean the
structure of government here is very different than the county.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
I mean, the county is a county administrator with a 7 member

board. I mean he requires 4 votes to keep his job. The difference
over here is this is a very strong mayor form of government. I mean
I don't sit on city council. I go to city council once a year. I'm
thankful for that. They don't get involved necessarily in procurement
issues. They approve contracts, which is their role in this process,
but for the most part they don't get in my lane and I don't get in
theirs. So it would be rare that a council member would call me and
say, you know, this engineering firm does this kind of work. It's just
not their bailiwick. I mean, we have a process that we go through.
We have committees that review all these things. I'm not involved
until the very end where I sign the documents.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
So I'm not... I don't sit on those committees. I'm not, you know, I'm
not involved at all.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So back to as the selection process is going, you had no

involvement in who was selected. Now, obviously part of this
investigation, Beth Leytham has been somebody who has been a
focus through news reports and that sort of thing and your
relationship with her. Can you just, I guess, for the record speak to
your relationship with her.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Sure. It's not nearly what Channel 10 would have you believe.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And that's why this is a great opportunity, because there's been

others that have a chance to speak on a lot of things like that.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean Beth has been a friend of mine for 25
years.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
I've known her professionally. I've known her socially. I've watched
her build a business and good business. I mean, in her little niche,
she's probably as good as anybody in the community in terms of
what she does. You know, she's somebody that I've bounced ideas
off periodically. You know, she's helped in a volunteer capacity in
some of campaigns going back, you know, 25 years.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is that when you first...? So you said 25 years.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah, probably 25. I would say the early 90's.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
I mean she was a paralegal I think at one of the law firms.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And because you're prior work was in communications?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is that... gave you an opportunity to meet?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
No. I knew her because she worked at the Downtown Partnership

when I was on the city council.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
She worked at the chamber when I was on the city council. She did
a lot of legislative stuff at the chamber level. She then branched out
on her own and set up her own firm and has done very well.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And because obviously the relationships she's built and then those
relationships she has with certain people that kind of get higher up
in office, like you the Mayor and then the Commissioner Murman
and Commissioner Hagan.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
And she has the same relationship with the media too. I mean
that's her job.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I understand that. Yes.
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
I mean whether it's the editorial boards. I mean that is her job.
That's what her clients hire her to do is to sort of move between
those various spheres and you know, represent their viewpoint.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, this will be a question for her as well, are you able to separate
yourself as being a constituent, a concerned citizen, lobbyist, public
relations person? Are you able to separate that in that work
environment that she has?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Is that a question to me? Am I able to separate sort of her many

roles?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. Can you separate that?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Well, I have to do it everyday.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
You know, the nature of this job is, you know, there are multiple sort
of environments in which you operate; friends, professional friends,
political friends, issue-driven friends, lobbyists. I mean it's a daily,
almost hourly occurrence. And so you have to be able to maneuver
through those and if you can't tell your friends no, you don't belong
certainly in this job.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Because it's just the nature of the business. You know, they have
clients that they represent and they forcefully advocate on behalf of
their clients. If it's in the city's best interest and our needs join
together, that's fine. That's a good partnership. If they don't and it's
not in the best interest of the people that I serve, my bosses, then
the answer's going to be hell no. Thank you, you know, but no. We
can't help you. But I deal with that everyday. And so yeah,
absolutely you can separate.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And in your case, I mean you have to.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
I have to.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You have to be able to.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. Yeah. My only responsibility is to do what's in the best

interest of the community and the people that hired me to do this
job and that's more important to me than friendships and
professional relationships and campaign contributions. I mean, you
know, I probably over the years have gotten 10,000 campaign
contributions. Not all of them come from people who want to serve
the public.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
But you got to be able to sort of just put that aside and just say
okay. You know, thank you. I appreciate your support of me and my
campaigns, but in this case I can't help you and this is why I can't
help you.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because of her relationship with you, has there been anything

stirred her way because of you all's relationship?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
No. Absolutely not....
CPL. HOLLIS:
As far as work?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
No. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because I know there had been some allegations there, including

the InVision Project. What I understand AECOM was the main...
they hired somebody.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
They hired subs. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Was there any phone calls that were made to try to get her
work?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
No. No. No. Absolutely not.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
And they did a hell of a job for us and she did a hell of a job.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. That's what I understand.
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MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Now back to essentially Go Hillsborough and when Parsons was

brought on, have you had any conversations with Beth Leytham in
the month of August 2014 leading up to that August 12th meeting or
any kind of discussion of the direction that the PLG, the TED Group
should go?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
I probably did.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
I can't recall the specifics of them, but I probably did. You know, and
that was not an unusual circumstance, but yeah, I'm sure I talked to
her. Yeah. I mean, she was very active in that whole effort.
CPL. HOLLIS:
One of the things that we've done is we pulled up... we got her
phone records just to see and there were some conversations prior
to that meeting. I think I counted 3. Yeah. 1, 2.... Yeah. 1, 2, 3. And
actually on the day of the meeting, but it was a one minute, so it
may have been a quick.... Do you remember any of the specifics of
the conversations?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
No. No. And it could have been other issues as well. She
represents Tampa Housing Authority.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
And we were right in the midst of the whole West River

Redevelopment Plan, and so you know, her path would cross with
me frequently on things totally unrelated to the PLG. You know, the
InVision plan is the guiding document for everything that we do
around here and so, you know, what we're doing on the West River,
tearing down North Boulevard homes, I mean that's all part of the
larger parcel. So and, you know, I don't remember, but any of those
calls could have been something totally unrelated.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And just looking at it, if she was kind of giving you her feedback, did
she ever once mention Parsons as being the one that should...
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
No. I mean I knew she represented Parsons. She's done it for

years.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. That would be my other question.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you know she was under contract?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So you were aware she was under contract?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. I mean she'd been under contract for I'm guessing, 4, 5, 6

years. I mean I don't know. So no, that wasn't a surprise.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But had she... during that time period pushed to have
Parsons be part of this project?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Not that I recall, but bare in mind, it didn't matter what she said to
me.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Because I didn't have a vote.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Well, if she had said something to you, would that be

information you could've passed on to the deciding folks at the
county?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
I could have, but I didn't.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. I mean I don't call on vendors behalf.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Because otherwise they'll be calling me and driving me crazy.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I had a couple emails here. Excuse me for one second.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Sure. You guys are quiet. Doesn't he let you guys ask questions?
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CPL. HOLLIS:
I'm sure they will. And I'm going to show this to you. These are
emails we received from Parsons Brinckerhoff essentially just
communications that were happening during this time and this is
August the 12th, so this is going from Beth... or, I'm sorry, from
Robert Clifford to Beth Leytham. There's some communications.
But here this is to Bob Clifford. Do you know Bob Clifford?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. He used to be... when I sat on the TBARTA he was the

executive director and then I guess he went over here to Parsons.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. And kind of essentially doing the same things he was doing for
the county.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yep. Yep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But this is Monday, August 11th, so before the meeting and you're of
course allowed to read this.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But it just talks about how items with both Commissioner Hagan
and Mayor Buckhorn who will support those general approaches
to....
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Can you kind of speak to that?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. And I think what this is referencing, and I underline the think
part, was the whole strategy behind the outreach. I'm fairly certain
she's not referring to the selection process, but the strategy behind
the outreach in terms of building that community consensus, doing
the community meetings, getting out there early and meeting with
constituency groups, identifying who the third party validators are.
You know, which was right in keeping with what we had been
talking about for a long time. So yeah, that... I'm assuming that's
what's she's referring to and I wholeheartedly agreed with that
approach.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And essentially that's the approach that was taken.
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MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. And the approach that we would have demanded of anybody
who got the contract, at least from the PLG side.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And with Commissioner Hagan, do you have a relationship

with him?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Would that be something you all would have even

discussed?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And like you said, I mean you just are talking about the weather,
just kids, or what have you.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright. And then some of the text messages that Mr. Merrill had
released that we obtained, communication he had with Beth
Leytham. And this... and sometimes it's good to get a context.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because you can read words and not understand what the context
is and that's what's good about this. So there's this one. It's
September 19th and just says Mayor on agree with county
perspective. Do you know what that's pertaining to?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
I'm assuming it's the same thing that that last one referenced is sort
of the approach to building a consensus and doing the education
component of this process before we move to a decision on a
referendum. I'm guessing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And not to interrupt you.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yes.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
But this is before... or this after Parsons has already been selected.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, it was a constant... an ongoing

discussion I would think in terms of how you do this. How you do
the politics of this, because the politics are ultimately once they
make the decision who they're going to hire once we make the
decision that we're moving forward. It's the campaign side that
actually matters. I mean I'm far less concerned about the internal
bureaucratic process. What I care about is how we're going to
structure a campaign and throw the needle on something that is
going to be a very, very difficult thing to....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, especially when you're talking about raising taxes.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
In this environment, it's... you know, it's not easy.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Are you aware of any ethical issues that took place during
this entire Go Hillsborough, the selection process that occurred?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
No. And I will say for the record, I have the utmost confidence in
Mike Merrill and his ethical compass. I mean I have never known
him to be anything but upright and do the right thing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Since knowing Beth Leytham, would she.... And she's from... just
reading our knowledge of her and the communications we've seen,
that she's aware of the rules of engagement as far as, you know,
who can talk to who and how to avoid all that.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Has she seem to be educated in that arena?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, you know, we're all conversing. I mean

she's an aggressive advocate for her clients as she should be, as I
would want her to be if she was working for me. But we know what
the rules are. You know, I mean there's... we collectively as a PLG
know what the rules are and we also knew that, you know, once it
got into the county procurement process they were going to follow
the rules. You know, we... all of us as governments piggyback off of
other lists. You guys do it; the SO's office. That makes the process
the streamline.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Right. But the process is the process and we're not... and Mike's
not going to sort of deviate from that. I mean there's... there's no
upside for him to do that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is it your opinion that Parsons would have been selected

regardless if there was any influence?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
That would be my sense. You know, that would be my sense. I

mean they've done these things all over the country. I mean, they
bring a certain expertise to this that others perhaps not. So, you
know, I was perfectly comfortable with Parsons being the choice,
but had it been HDR or some of the other big national engineering
firms, I mean I'm sure they could've brought people to the table that
would handle the politics and the community affair side of things.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And one of the sticking points that could have been with the
HDR is the Tampa Bay Water reservoir situation and Commissioner
Murman, from what I understand, was very vocal about her feelings
of HDR. Not necessarily on this particular project, but I mean she
made it known in public meetings that she didn't care for HDR. And
then essentially, she sends a message to Mike Merrill asking him
not to pick HDR during this process. Is that something, just your
opinion because you're an elected official, is that something
appropriate for...?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Well, I mean, it wasn't my call.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
And that was over the lawsuit about the reservoir?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
That was a separate issue, but she made...
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
When she texted Mike during this selection process of Go
Hillsborough who to select. She asked Mike please don't select
HDR.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. I mean that.... You know. You know. That's... I have no idea
why she did it. You know, she may not have liked him because they
ended up having to pay a significant amount of money, but I mean
that was... I mean that was her call. That wasn't mines.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But....
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Is it appropriate?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. That's the main question.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
You know, we all approach these things with our biases. We're
human beings.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
If we've had a bad situation or bad dealings with a particular

vendor, yeah, you're not forget that because ultimately it's the
taxpayer's money that they're either wasting or screwing up. So
yeah, if I... as the mayor, if I've had a vendor that we've used that
screwed us, I don't forget. But I just had that conversation with
myself.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
That's the advantage to this form of government.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. And in talking with other commissioners asking the same

question, you know, it's her opinion.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. It's her opinion.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But does your opinion or an elected officials' opinion weigh a lot

more than just say somebody off the street giving their opinion
about a vendor?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. Oh, I'm sure it does. Absolutely.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. I mean ultimately in that situation over there, Sandy is one of

his bosses.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
But I'm sure the other six had just as many opinions.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. Well, I mean, yeah. She's just one vote essentially.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. Just one vote. You know, and Mike has to balance that
everyday in his work.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. At this point, I don't think I have any questions. You guys
have any questions?
DET. PORTALATIN: Just a couple clarifying. I know you said that Beth's probably one of the
best at what she does and it's not the first time we've heard that.
Can you kind of describe to us what is that Beth Leytham does?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
You guys are probably just, you know, what kind of world do you all
live in? She is a communications professional. I mean that's what
her company does. They assist clients with crisis communications.
They assist them with media relations. They assist them with, you
know, media advocacy. She has relationships with editorial boards
of the Tribune and St. Pete Times, so.... And she tends to have
clients that find themselves in high profile situations. So she helps
them gain entree to the editorial board so that they can make their
case. You know, she'll write press releases for them. She'll... you
know, basically do what any PR firm does. But I think she's more
focused on crisis communications; some advocacy on behalf of her
clients. I mean she's not a political person. She's not a campaign
person. That's not her skill set. She's not a lobbyist. I mean I deal
with lobbyists everyday. They are professional lobbyists. That's
what they do. They don't do what she does. They generally don't
have relationships with the media. They don't know how to write
press releases. They aren't able to pick up the phone and call
reporters and say this is my client's side of the story and sort of
push back in the case of bad news. So there's... it's two different
worlds. It seems like it's one, but it's not.
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DET. PORTALATIN: And I can kind of see how that on the outside looking in, not having the
expertise, not being in this industry I guess, so to speak, one can
make that correlation.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. Yeah.
DET. PORTALATIN: But can you maybe explain the difference? You said you deal with
lobbyists very frequently and not really what she does. Is there a
distinctive difference?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. A lobbyist in many cases are lawyers who part of their

practice is representation of clients before governmental agencies.
So say for example, and I'll give you a perfect example, we're about
to put out a new contract for the food service at the convention
center. Aramark has had the contract for years. It's a big deal. A lot
of money at stake. Until we put the code of silence over the RFP
process, all of the major providers of that service. You know,
Aramark, you've got, you know, Levy. All the folks that do the big
arenas. You know, we're coming down here pitching. Sometimes
me. Sometimes they convince the center director. But they would
generally have lobbyists. These were folks who sometimes were
local, sometimes were not. Sometimes were lawyers, many times.
Often times not. To make the introductions so that they can make
their pitch and make their case. Do their thing. That is a lobbyist.
You know, Tallahassee's full of them. SO may even have a lobbyist
in Tallahassee probably, no. What Beth does is the media side of a
client's needs. Like just pick a scenario that she might have been
involved. She was involved in representing the... when the
expressway had those issues. Anyway.... So if one of her clients
had a big issue that was on the front page of the newspaper, she
would help them spin the story. She would be in contact with
reporters on their behalf. If reporters had questions they would be
calling her. She would get her client in front of the editorial board so
they could tell their side of the story so you don't get hammered in
the press every day. She wasn't lobbying to get her client's
business. She was dealing with the aftermath of whatever the client
was involved in. So it may seem like it's the same animal, but it's
not. It's two very different skill sets.
DET. PORTALATIN: I see. And some of the contracts that we've seen that she has had with
clients who weren't particularly in any kind of crisis at the time, it
seemed to me in reading the wording that she was... her job was to
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go out and meet people, introduce them to people. Make those
connections like you're saying. Relationships. And for me looking in
at someone whose job it is to do that kind of thing, it seem like it
would be very difficult like to do what you were saying as to take
that hat off and be the constituent or take that hat off and be not
involved or not doing that job when that's what your contract says
you're to do. And when some of your friendships with some
information you might get in just a normal conversation could
potentially benefit that client, is that not work or is it work? And
that's kind of the gray area that we're dealing with.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. Yeah. It is. And it very much is a gray area and I think part of
our job as electeds is to be able to differentiate and be able to sort
of define, you know, what's work and what's just her offering
personal opinions. And you know, it's a human endeavor and so
you have to rely on the human beings that you choose to make the
right decisions and to be able to differentiate and separate and do
what's in the best interest of the community. You know, there's
some politicians that don't. There's some politicians that, you know,
are own lock, stock, and barrel by the lobbyists because of the
money in politics. There are others that, you know, have a good
moral compass and are able to separate. But, you know, it's human
beings you're dealing with. I mean it's like what you guys do
everyday. You know, and there's gray areas, but you have to rely
on, you know, the elected folks that have the moral compasses,
you know, true north.
DET. PORTALATIN: The other thing would be do you see from your perspective and your
responsibility on Beth's side to have to maybe introduce or let
people know who she.... Obviously...
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Sure. Yeah. I mean she's got the same obligations as we do and

when she's working, you know, she needs to sort of tell people
she's working. But in the world in which she operates, which is
largely relationship driven, you know, that's part of what she does is
to be able to move between the media and between the politicians
and the private sector and public opinion. But yes, I think she's.... I
have never known her to do anything that was inappropriate or
unethical. Ever. And I've been around her for a long time. There's a
lot of folks in her world that I don't trust. There are some of her
competitors who have driven this process that you guys are
involved in. We all know it. We all know who they are. I wouldn't
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trust them as far as I could throw them. But Beth, yeah. I trust her
judgment.
DET. PORTALATIN: Thank you.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
DET. CLARK:
Sure. Yeah.
Trent Clark for the record. One of my questions is pertaining to....
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Sorry about this. Gas leak at.... See when you're the mayor all the
staff pages that TPD and Tampa Fire get, I get so I'm up all night
long.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, you get them too? I bet.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Things like gas leak and shootings and....
DET. CLARK:
Okay. Trent Clark for the record. In the beginning of the interview you
stated that you were told that the PLG or TED Group is not a
Sunshine group. Who told you that?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
DET. CLARK:
Chip Fletcher?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
DET. CLARK:
Yeah.
Which would mean selecting someone and everybody spoke on what that
outcome would be. We're going to pick...
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
DET. CLARK:
Yeah. County attorney.
And there was another question about that because it was not a Sunshine
group and it was a fact-finding group put together by the county
and Mike Merrill, your votes, you said they didn't really count.
However, during the meetings, which are recorded and Chip
Fletcher was present, there were at least votes on, at the end, of
what would be the outcome of all of those meetings.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
DET. CLARK:
I think it was Chip Fletcher.
Someone. Yeah.
We're going to pick someone.
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MAYOR BUCKHORN:
DET. CLARK:
And all of the commissioners are present, which two or more

commissioners being present would be a Sunshine situation when
they're discussing or selecting or fact-finding.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
DET. CLARK:
We can hope. We'll find out in about two weeks.
Yes.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
DET. CLARK:
But did... you know....
And that's where I'm going with. When it comes to clarity. To deal with a
group that's unique like this one where you have county
commissioners, mayors, and transportation, HART, and everybody
available, and then you're voting on something that's going to be
later voted on by the county commission it becomes almost a de
facto vote for the commission or you can see a visual hole of who
will vote on that issue.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
DET. CLARK:
They're covered. So I mean they could have those conversations

during those meetings.
Yes.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
DET. CLARK:
But in their... in their case, because it was a duly noticed public

meeting...
Yes.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
DET. CLARK:
Yeah.
Yeah.
So my question is when you have all of that visual on that particular

selection process or fact-finding process, do you think that that
process in anyway interfered with the integrity of the procurement?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
No, I don't think so. And let me tell you why. Because, I mean we
didn't at the PLG get into who was going to get selected. We just
got our decision and our recommendation when the decision was
that somebody be selected and that this is how we approach that
process. You know, as a Plant City mayor, a Temple Terrace mayor
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or a Tampa mayor, we knew that our role was not to do the picking.
Our role was to sort of give the guidance and set the framework for
how we as a board wanted to move forward and that was again
getting back to that grassroots up not top down. Because top down
didn't work. We got our ass handed to us in 2010. So, you know,
we just took that recommendation, handed it to Mike Merrill and to
the county and said you go do what you have to do because you're
paying this. I mean bear in mind I didn't have any money in this
until the tail end of it. The county was paying for all of this and I
mean all three-quarters of a million dollars was county money. I
didn't... he didn't ask me for money. Didn't ask Temple Terrace.
Didn't ask Plant City. So they were the ones that were going to
make that call. Our job as the PLG was to just say okay, we agree
with this process. We agree with the fact that we want a vendor in
there that's capable to dong all of this, not just pure engineering,
and Mike and the county you go do what you do on your
procurement side and go find us a vendor.
DET. CLARK:
Let me just make sure I got the last one.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
DET. CLARK:
My next question pertains to Beth being described and the prior question
as not being a lobbyist. She has registered as a lobbyist.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
DET. CLARK:
I think she has now. I saw in the paper that she did. Right.
Well, we pulled up her lobbyist records going back several years. She had
several principals in and registered as a lobbyist.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
DET. CLARK:
Ultimately, all of this is for naught if the county doesn't decide to put
it on their ballot and it's going to be 4/3 either way.
Good.
And met folks as a lobbyist. I just wanted to give you an opportunity to

clear that up. So you were unaware that she has ever registered as
a lobbyist?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. Until I saw in the paper that she had registered for Yellow
Cab. I mean I don't know that she's ever registered here as a
lobbyist because the stuff that I've dealt with her on, whether it's the
InVision, which is really the only thing, the InVision plan, she was
not hired as a lobbyist. She was hired for the communications
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portion as a subcontractor. But I'm not familiar with who she
represents over there at the county. No.
DET. CLARK:
That would be as a consultant then? She would be...
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
DET. CLARK:
Yeah. She was a subcontractor to handle the grassroots community

outreach as part of a much larger plan that was driven by an
engineering firm AECOM.
Those were my only two questions.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Has....
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
And I don't look at the lobbyist registration list, so I don't know

who...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, just in looking at the county, there's going to be some...

probably some changes with lobbying.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
The registration. The whole process anyway.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. Which is fine. I mean I wrote the ethics legislation here for
the city when I was on the city council and so, I mean I think they're
going to model a lot of what they're going to do after what we did
here.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I think that's right. Yes. Yeah. When we looked at some of the

things as far as even gifts.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Oh, yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
The changes that you made.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Now has Beth Leytham ever done any work for you where she was
paid?
- 28 -
For: 4602
Page 139 of 1954

SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Work for me personally?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
No. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And you mentioned she did some pro bono. Was that during
election time?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. That was in the 2011.... She was a volunteer, you know, like,
you know. I mean you guys know campaigns. If a sheriff runs, he's
got thousands of volunteers that all want to help. I mean same
thing. I think we listed her so I didn't have to list city folks as the
contact for the media when I announced for reelect this time, which
I really didn't have a campaign. And the same thing, I think she was
listed on the announcement for the initial 2011 race. But you know,
she's not a political person. I mean I've got people who do that for
me.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
So no. I think that's the only time.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright. Are you aware if Beth Leytham was trying to push Parsons
for this particular project.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Well, she has worked for them for years, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
I mean, that's what I would expect that she would do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But given the environment around where obviously county dealt

with the procurement side and that whole process and you all
weren't part of that, but would that be an ethical thing for her to be
pushing Parsons?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. I think it's appropriate.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah.
- 29 -
For: 4602
Page 140 of 1954

SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
If she made it known who she's representing.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's perfectly fine. I mean she's worked for them
for years. That's what her job is, you know, to advocate on behalf of
Parsons, so no, I don't have any problem with that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And you were aware she was representing Parsons during that
time?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because we've talked to people that did not know she was a part
with Parsons at the time and actually under contract even prior to
the Go Hillsborough contract.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Oh, she's worked for them for I'm thinking 5 years.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright. And that seemed to be known?
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
That's fine. It was certainly known by me.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
And I'm assuming... I shouldn't assume anything. I'm assuming it

was known by..., you know, the commissioners as well.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright. Just I guess given your opinion I obviously for all the media,
mainly from one particular journalist, and this is an opportunity.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
That's a stretch.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, one that's been kind of... Noah Pransky has been kind of the
main person, but given this opportunity to set the record on certain
things, to put context into things, which we were able to do in
speaking with you. Anything else that you would like to say about
that?
- 30 -
For: 4602
Page 141 of 1954

SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
No. No. I mean I think I'm the son of a journalist. That's not
journalism. I think it's a gross distortion of what actually transpired
largely driven by, you know, a desire for ratings and Pulitzer's and I
think it's unfortunate because I think what it has done, and if you
look at sort of the model for those that oppose these kinds of
issues, is to throw up every ethical allegation that you possibly can
in hopes of throwing sand in the gear because the facts don't
support your position and that's what happened in Pinellas County.
That's what happened to a lesser degree in 2010 and I think there
are some forces at work here that may not have collaborated, but
are coming together to derail this effort and I think it's unfortunate
because I think the community.... If we don't do something in
regards to transportation, this place is going to be a mess. And I
know they don't like rail out in East Hillsborough and that's fine. I
get it, but I need to have options here in the city and you know, for
them to use sort of this and blow this into what they've blown it into
in an effort to either take out a competitor or to derail this whole
effort I think is unfortunate.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright, sir. We appreciate the opportunity. I'll go ahead and stop....
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
No. No. It's good to see you guys.
CPL. HOLLIS:
The recording.
MAYOR BUCKHORN:
Be safe out there, fellas.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Let's see what time it is here. The time is 11:44 a.m.
End of interview.
- 31 -
For: 4602
Page 142 of 1954


Attachment Description: FREEH GROUP REPORT
Reference Number:
Sheriff David Gee

Chief Deputy Jos Docobo
Hillsborough County Sheriffs Office
P.O. Box 3371, Hillsborough County
Tampa, FL 33601
January 28, 2016
Dear Sheriff Gee and Chief Deputy Docobo:

Freeh Group International Solutions, LLC (hereinafter FGIS) was formally retained by the
Hillsborough County Sheriffs Office (hereinafter HCSO) on November 12, 2015, in order to
assist HCSO by providing an independent review of an investigation being conducted by HCSO.
Specifically, FGIS was tasked with assisting the investigators assigned to an investigation and
independently reviewing, analyzing, and assessing the investigative steps taken by the
investigators and the conclusions and findings reached by the investigators. The purpose of this
independent review was to ensure that the investigation conducted by HCSO was performed in a
fair and unbiased manner, free of conflict.
I. FGIS
FGIS is a global, risk management firm serving in the areas of business integrity and
compliance, safety and security, and investigations and due diligence. FGIS was founded by
Louis J. Freeh, former Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and former
federal judge. In addition to Judge Freeh, the management team of FGIS includes former senior
law enforcement officials, legal consultants, accountants, and security and compliance experts.
FGIS employs a team of professionals experienced in conducting significant investigations.
Several team members bring expertise from their previous roles in law enforcement on the
federal, state or local level, including former FBI agents, prosecutors, and forensic accountants.
During their careers, FGIS leadership and team members have led major investigations in areas
such as the savings and loan crisis, health care fraud, telemarketing fraud, public corruption, and
other types of systemic frauds.
For: 4602
Page 143 of 1954

The FGIS approach is to assemble the best team of experts based on the need and industry of the
client. A FGIS Principal or Managing Director oversees every project, ensuring all clients
receive the highest level of guidance and counsel.
II. ASSIGNED MANAGING DIRECTOR
Robert E. ONeill was the Managing Director of FGIS that was assigned to work with the
investigators from HCSO in this investigation. Mr. ONeill joined FGIS in July, 2013. Prior to
becoming a Managing Director for FGIS, Mr. ONeill was the United States Attorney for the
Middle District of Florida. He was nominated by President Obama and confirmed by the United
States Senate in 2010. He served as the United States Attorney until the summer, 2013. Mr.
ONeill also served as the United States Attorney in the Middle District of Florida under
President George W. Bush from 2007-2008.
Mr. ONeill was an Assistant United States Attorney in the Middle District of Florida as well.
He prosecuted all types of federal criminal cases including drug trafficking, money laundering,
white collar crime and public corruption. In addition to his trial work, Mr. ONeill held a
number of supervisory positions during his tenure in that office: Chief, Special
Prosecutions/Public Corruption Section; Anti-Terrorism Coordinator; Chief, Criminal Division;
and First Assistant United States Attorney.
Mr. ONeill also served as an Assistant United States Attorney in the Southern District of
Florida. During that time, he prosecuted cases involving arms dealing, violent crime, fraud and
international drug trafficking. He held supervisory positions in that office as well: Deputy Chief
of the Major Drug Traffickers Section and Chief of the Financial Litigation Section.
In addition, Mr. ONeill has also served as a special prosecutor on two separate occasions in the
Office of Independent Counsel, an office that had been set up to ensure that the criminal
investigations directed at cabinet level officials were pursued in a fair, impartial and conflict free
manner. He was an Associate Independent Counsel in both Washington, DC and San Francisco,
California. In each instance, he was the lead trial counsel for the United States in cases
involving allegations of public corruption.
On one other occasion, while on detail in Washington, D.C., Mr. ONeill was specifically
selected by the United States Department of Justice to investigate and prosecute the former
Deputy Attorney General of Mexico for money laundering and corruption charges in Houston,
Texas.
Mr. ONeill began his legal career as an Assistant District Attorney in the Manhattan District
Attorneys Office prosecuting all manner of state criminal charges in New York City.
For: 4602
Page 144 of 1954

III. THE INVESTIGATORS

By the time FGIS was retained, HCSO had already assigned three investigators to the matter: a
Corporal and two Detectives. All three investigators possess a great deal of experience. The
Corporal has been employed at HCSO for in excess of fifteen (15) years. The senior Detective
has been employed at HCSO for approximately eleven (11) years. Prior to joining HCSO, he
also had approximately ten years law enforcement experience in a department in another state.
The more junior Detective, in terms of law enforcement experience, has been at HCSO for in
excess of seven (7) years.
In addition to their years of experience at HCSO, each of the three investigators also had
substantial experience conducting investigations. Since this was an investigation as opposed to a
reactive event, it was important that the assigned investigators had the requisite experience
conducting actual investigations. All served prior, substantial assignments in investigative
sections of HCSO. In fact, all three served as detectives in Homicide.
Based upon their backgrounds, FGIS found the three assigned investigators to be experienced
and qualified to conduct the GoHillsborough investigation. Moreover, once FGIS began to work
with the investigators on the investigation, it became apparent to FGIS that the investigators
were extremely diligent and able criminal investigators; not only did they possess the needed
credentials but they also possessed a superior work ethic and a mission oriented mind set.
IV. METHODOLOGY
Upon being retained on the GoHillsborough investigation, FGIS met with the investigators and
an investigative strategy was developed. The investigators were collecting evidence and
interviewing potential witnesses in an attempt to ascertain the facts. As they accumulated the
information, there would be routine meetings between the investigators and FGIS. The
investigators would explain what they had sought to accomplish and what information had been
gathered. FGIS would assist the investigators in evaluating the evidence. The overriding issue
was to determine whether a criminal offense had been committed by anyone during the course of
GoHillsborough.
FGIS reviewed a number of witness interviews. Specifically, FGIS read the following
transcripts of interviews conducted by the investigators (the interviews are listed in chronological
order):
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
Michael Merrill (10/21/15)

Liana Lopez (10/22/15)
Bonnie Wise (10/22/15)
Lucia Garsys (10/22/15)
Larry Scully (10/26/15)
6. Frank Chillura (10/27/15)

7. John Lyons (10/28/15)
8. Mike Williams (10/29/15)
9. Scott Stromer (10/30/15)
10. Rick Allen Lott (10/30/15)
For: 4602
Page 145 of 1954

11. Thomas Fesler (11/2/15)

12. Peggy Caskey (11/2/15)
13. John Hollingshead (11/2/15)
14. Mike Suarez (11/12/15)
15. Al Higginbotham, Jr. (11/13/15)
16. Stacy White (11/17/15)
17. Mark Sharpe (11/19/15)
18. Lesley James Miller, Jr. (11/20/15)
19. Kevin Beckner (11/24/15)

20. Victor Donald Crist (12/3/15)
21. Bob Buckhorn (12/8/15)
22. Kenneth Hagan, Jr. (12/14/15)
23. Sandy Murman (12/16/15;
12/22/15)
24. Bethany Leytham (12/18/15)
(Summary of interview)
FGIS was also briefed by the investigators as to the substance of other interviews. FGIS did not
believe that it was essential to read each and every interview in that, as the investigation
progressed, it became apparent that the allegations of possible criminal violations were
unsupported by the evidence. Instead, FGIS relied on regular meetings and calls with the
investigators.
FGIS reviewed a preliminary assessment which was prepared by the Director of County Audit at
the request of the Clerk of Circuit Court. The preliminary assessment had been requested as a
result of citizen complaints. The preliminary assessment determined that no material concerns
were identified. Consequently, the complaint was closed, without further review.
FGIS also reviewed an investigative report prepared by Moore Stephens Lovelace, P.A. (MSL),
which was conducted at the request of the Hillsborough County Sheriffs Office. The report
concluded that it did not find any violation of state law or county purchasing and departmental
policies and procedures related to the selection of Parsons.
In addition to reading and being briefed on the substance of witness interviews, FGIS also
received regular briefings from the investigators concerning documentary evidence that had been
accumulated in the case. The investigators went through a multitude of emails and text
messages. FGIS received regular briefings on what was found. Essential emails and text
messages were specifically highlighted for FGIS. They were printed out and discussed for
evidentiary value, if any.
V. THE LAW
As the investigators gathered the evidence, FGIS and the investigators would meet in person or
telephonically and discuss the progress of the investigation. In conducting a criminal
investigation, it is commonplace for investigators and prosecutors to meet and discuss the
evidence. Through this process, the relevant evidence is compared to the relevant law in order to
determine whether or not there has been a violation of law.
The investigators have written a lengthy report detailing their findings during the course of the
investigation. In their report, the investigators noted the relevant Florida criminal statutes. There
was no indication that any state criminal laws were violated, with one exception. The
4
For: 4602
Page 146 of 1954

investigators did uncover possible violations of the Sunshine Law. Consequently, these possible
violations were referred to the State Attorneys Office.
In addition, although not specifically mentioned in the report completed by the investigators,
federal criminal statutes were reviewed in order to determine whether there had been any
violations of federal criminal law. No such violations were apparent.
VI. CONCLUSION
The GoHillsborough investigation was prompted by complaints that the awarding of a contract
involved corruption. The allegations were more generalized in nature and lacked factual
predicate. Thus, HCSO conducted a thorough investigation in order to determine whether there
was any basis to determine that the process of awarding the contract had been corrupted in some
criminal manner. The investigators culled through reams of documents and conducted a large
number of interviews. The investigators did not find any evidence to support the claim that the
process was corrupted in a criminal manner.
FGIS determined that the investigation was conducted in a thorough manner by skilled and
experienced investigators. These investigators conducted the investigation in a professional
manner. FGIS did not detect any hint of bias or conflict in the manner in which the investigation
was conducted. The findings and conclusions of the investigation are amply supported by the
facts and evidence that were adduced by the investigators.
Very truly yours,
Robert ONeill
Managing Director
www.freehgroup.com
305-205-8228
For: 4602
Page 147 of 1954


Attachment Description: LEYTHAM'S PHONE RECORDS AUGUST 1-SEPTEMBER 5, 2014
Reference Number:
Eds
>Z
Mo Day
Numb
8/01
Rate
Usage Type
Origination
Destination
Dir
Min.
Airtime Long Dist/

Total Communication With
Charges Other Chgs
DATE
Time
Number
8/01/14
9:07A
813-494-1001
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
16
--
--
--
8/01
8/01/14
2:56P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/02
8/02/14
9:15A
813-625-9081
Off-Peak N&W
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
15
--
--
--
8/02
8/02/14
11:27A 813-416-3237
Off-Peak N&W
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/02
8/02/14
11:29A 813-625-9081
Off-Peak N&W
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
29
--
--
--
8/03
8/03/14
1:47P
813-468-9632
Off-Peak N&W
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/03
8/03/14
2:15P
813-385-5038
Off-Peak N&W
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
22
--
--
--
8/03
8/03/14
3:07P
813-468-9632
Off-Peak N&W
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
37
--
--
--
8/04
8/04/14
9:08A
813-478-1159
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Plant City FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/04
8/04/14
9:54A
813-478-1159
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Plant City FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/04
8/04/14
1:09P
813-245-0320
Peak
PlanAllow
Wesley Cha FL Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/04
8/04/14
2:31P
813-453-9403
Peak
PlanAllow
Masaryktow FL Tampa FL
Outgoing
58
--
--
--
8/04
8/04/14
4:33P
515-864-8431
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Des Moines IA
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/04
8/04/14
4:53P
515-864-8431
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Des Moines IA
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/05
8/05/14
11:01A 813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/05
8/05/14
11:38A 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/05
8/05/14
11:42A 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
15
--
--
--
8/05
8/05/14
2:44P
813-259-7673
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/05
8/05/14
3:51P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
21
--
--
--
8/05
8/05/14
4:14P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/06
8/06/14
9:24A
813-494-1001
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
16
--
--
--
8/06
8/06/14
10:14A 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/06
8/06/14
12:16P 515-864-8431
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
43
--
--
--
8/06
8/06/14
2:22P
813-341-9101
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/06
8/06/14
2:41P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/06
8/06/14
2:56P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
11
--
--
--
Robert Shimberg
Louis Betz
Sandy Murman
Lucia Garsys
Sandy Murman
Ken Hagan
Ken Hagan
Ken Hagan
George Walton
George Walton
10
Michael Deeson
11
12
13
14
Ken Hagan
15
Louis Betz
16
Louis Betz
17
Tampa Tribune
18
Louis Betz
19
Ken Hagan
20
Robert Shimberg
21
22
23
Louis Betz
Ali N. Glisson (City of
Tampa Public Affairs
Director)
Tampa Housing
Authority
24
Louis Betz
25
Louis Betz
26
K
ZW>'
For: 4602
Michael Suarez
Director)
Director)
Page 148 of 1954

Eds
>Z
Mo Day
Numb
8/06
DATE
Time
Number
Rate
Usage Type
Origination
Destination
Dir
Min.
Airtime Long Dist/

Charges Other Chgs
8/06/14
3:51P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
16
--
--
--
8/06
8/06/14
5:35P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
19
--
--
--
8/07
8/07/14
10:32A 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
14
--
--
--
8/07
8/07/14
10:46A 813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
31
--
--
--
8/07
8/07/14
11:32A 813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
10
--
--
--
8/07
8/07/14
1:53P
515-864-8431
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Des Moines IA
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/07
8/07/14
2:41P
813-453-6234
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
45
--
--
--
8/07
8/07/14
4:18P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/07
8/07/14
5:00P
813-453-6234
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/07
8/07/14
5:42P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/07
8/07/14
9:51P
813-833-1573
Off-Pea
k N&W
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
36
--
--
--
8/08
8/08/14
10:09A 813-416-3237
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
41
--
--
--
8/08
8/08/14
10:50A 813-335-2192
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/08
8/08/14
4:42P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/08
8/08/14
5:18P
813-335-2192
Peak
M2MAllow,Call Tampa FL
Wait
Incoming CL
Incoming
23
--
--
--
8/10
8/10/14
11:59A 813-416-3237
Off-Peak N&W
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/11
8/11/14
12:41P 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
8/11
8/11/14
12:42P 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
8/11
8/11/14
2:53P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/11
8/11/14
3:39P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
24
--
--
8/11
8/11/14
4:07P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/11
8/11/14
4:53P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/12
8/12/14
8:18A
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/12
8/12/14
8:30A
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
15
--
--
8/12
8/12/14
10:55A 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
11
--
--
8/12
8/12/14
11:30A 813-453-6234
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
Louis Betz
27
Louis Betz
28
Louis Betz
29
Sandy Murman
30
31
32
Bob Buckhorn
33
Louis Betz
34
Bob Buckhorn
35
Louis Betz
36
Louis Betz
37
Lucia Garsys
38
Mike Merrill
39
Louis Betz
40
Mike Merrill
41
Lucia Garsys
42
Louis Betz
43
Louis Betz
44
Sandy Murman
45
Sandy Murman
46
Ken Hagan
47
Ken Hagan
48
Ken Hagan
49
Ken Hagan
50
Louis Betz
51
Bob Buckhorn
52
K
ZW>'
For: 4602
Ken Hagan
Director)
Page 149 of 1954

Eds
>Z
Mo Day
Numb
8/12
DATE
Time
Number
Rate
Usage Type
Origination
Destination
Dir
Min.
Airtime Long Dist/

Charges Other Chgs
8/12/14
11:45A 813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
11
--
--
8/12
8/12/14
1:05P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
8/12
8/12/14
1:07P
813-625-9081
Peak
Wait
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
8/12
8/12/14
2:51P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/12
8/12/14
2:56P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
8/12
8/12/14
3:19P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
19
--
--
8/12
8/12/14
4:59P
813-478-1159
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
11
--
--
--
8/12
8/12/14
5:10P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/12
8/12/14
5:14P
813-453-6234
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/12
8/12/14
5:21P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
18
--
--
--
8/12
8/12/14
6:03P
813-494-1001
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/12
8/12/14
6:30P
813-494-1001
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/12
8/12/14
7:22P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/12
8/12/14
7:51P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/13
8/13/14
11:00A 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/13
8/13/14
11:04A 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/13
8/13/14
4:06P
813-226-3300
Peak
PlanAllow,Call Tampa FL
Wait
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/13
8/13/14
8:10P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/14
8/14/14
11:00A 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/14
8/14/14
11:16A 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/14
8/14/14
11:35A 813-453-6234
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
48
--
--
--
8/14
8/14/14
12:23P 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/14
8/14/14
1:15P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/14
8/14/14
1:19P
813-259-7760
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/14
8/14/14
1:26P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/14
8/14/14
1:37P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
Ken Hagan
53
Sandy Murman
54
Sandy Murman
55
Louis Betz
56
Ken Hagan
57
Louis Betz
58
George Walton
59
Louis Betz
60
Bob Buckhorn
61
Sandy Murman
62
Robert Shimberg
63
Robert Shimberg
64
Louis Betz
65
Ken Hagan
66
Louis Betz
67
Louis Betz
68
Tampa Bay Times
69
Ken Hagan
70
Louis Betz
71
Louis Betz
72
Bob Buckhorn
73
Louis Betz
74
Sandy Murman
75
Tampa Tribune
76
Louis Betz
77
Louis Betz
78
K
ZW>'
For: 4602
Page 150 of 1954

Eds
>Z
Mo Day
Numb
8/14
DATE
Time
Number
Rate
Usage Type
Origination
Destination
Dir
Min.
Airtime Long Dist/

Charges Other Chgs
8/14/14
5:57P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/14
8/14/14
6:00P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/14
8/14/14
6:20P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
34
--
--
--
8/15
8/15/14
9:48A
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/15
8/15/14
1:21P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/15
8/15/14
1:23P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/15
8/15/14
1:27P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
25
--
--
--
8/15
8/15/14
1:52P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/15
8/15/14
10:11A 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/15
8/15/14
3:10P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/15
8/15/14
3:18P
813-453-6234
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/15
8/15/14
4:02P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/15
8/15/14
4:33P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
29
--
--
--
8/15
8/15/14
5:08P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
11
--
--
--
8/16
8/16/14
1:17P
813-468-9632
Off-Pea
k N&W
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/17
8/17/14
10:35A 813-468-9632
Off-Peak N&W
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
17
--
--
8/17
8/17/14
5:14P
813-468-9632
Off-Peak N&W
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/17
8/17/14
5:20P
813-468-9632
Off-Peak N&W
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
10
--
--
8/17
8/17/14
6:02P
813-468-9632
Off-Peak N&W
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/18
8/18/14
9:47A
813-453-6234
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
14
--
--
8/18
8/18/14
12:11P 813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
19
--
--
8/18
8/18/14
5:22P
813-226-3400
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/18
8/18/14
5:33P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/18
8/18/14
6:04P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/18
8/18/14
6:09P
813-453-6234
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/18
8/18/14
9:18P
813-833-1573
Off-Peak N&W
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
Louis Betz
79
Ken Hagan
80
Sandy Murman
81
Louis Betz
82
Louis Betz
83
Sandy Murman
84
Sandy Murman
85
Sandy Murman
86
Louis Betz
87
Louis Betz
88
Bob Buckhorn
89
Ken Hagan
90
Ken Hagan
91
Ken Hagan
92
Ken Hagan
93
Ken Hagan
94
Ken Hagan
95
Ken Hagan
96
Ken Hagan
97
Bob Buckhorn
98
Ken Hagan
99
Tampa Bay Times
100
Ken Hagan
101
Ken Hagan
102
Bob Buckhorn
103
Louis Betz
104
K
ZW>'
For: 4602
Page 151 of 1954

Eds
>Z
Mo Day
Numb
8/18
DATE
Time
Number
Rate
8/18/14
9:25P
813-833-1573
Off-Peak N&W
8/19
8/19/14
9:03A
813-625-9081
Peak
8/19
8/19/14
10:46A 813-468-9632
8/19
8/19/14
8/19
Usage Type
Origination
Destination
Dir
Min.
Airtime Long Dist/

Charges Other Chgs
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
28
--
--
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
18
--
--
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
11:12A 813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
8/19/14
1:41P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
30
--
--
8/19
8/19/14
3:28P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
8/19
8/19/14
3:32P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
8/19
8/19/14
4:07P
813-453-6234
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/19
8/19/14
4:16P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
10
--
--
8/19
8/19/14
4:53P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
8/19
8/19/14
5:01P
813-625-9081
Peak
Wait
Incoming CL
Incoming
40
--
--
8/19
8/19/14
5:41P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/19
8/19/14
5:49P
813-478-1159
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Plant City FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/19
8/19/14
5:51P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
15
--
--
8/19
8/19/14
6:06P
813-951-8220
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
17
--
--
8/19
8/19/14
4:07P
813-453-6234
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/19
8/19/14
4:16P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
10
--
--
8/19
8/19/14
4:53P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
8/19
8/19/14
5:01P
813-625-9081
Peak
Wait
Incoming CL
Incoming
40
--
--
8/19
8/19/14
5:41P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/19
8/19/14
5:49P
813-478-1159
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Plant City FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/19
8/19/14
5:51P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
15
--
--
8/19
8/19/14
6:06P
813-951-8220
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
17
--
--
8/20
8/20/14
8:18A
813-951-8220
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/20
8/20/14
10:07A 813-494-1001
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/20
8/20/14
10:11A 813-416-3237
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
22
--
--
--
Louis Betz
105
Sandy Murman
106
Ken Hagan
107
Sandy Murman
108
Ken Hagan
109
Louis Betz
110
Louis Betz
111
Bob Buckhorn
112
Louis Betz
113
Louis Betz
114
Sandy Murman
115
Louis Betz
116
George Walton
117
Louis Betz
118
Bob Clifford
119
Bob Buckhorn
120
Louis Betz
121
Louis Betz
122
Sandy Murman
123
Louis Betz
124
George Walton
125
Louis Betz
126
Bob Clifford
127
Bob Clifford
128
Robert Shimberg
129
Lucia Garsys
130
K
ZW>'
For: 4602
Page 152 of 1954

Eds
>Z
Mo Day
Numb
8/20
DATE
Time
Number
Rate
Usage Type
Origination
Destination
Dir
Min.
Airtime Long Dist/

Charges Other Chgs
8/20/14
10:33A 813-416-3237
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/20
8/20/14
2:35P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
16
--
--
--
8/20
8/20/14
3:02P
813-341-9101
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
49
--
--
--
8/20
8/20/14
3:51P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
16
--
--
--
8/20
8/20/14
4:13P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
15
--
--
--
8/20
8/20/14
4:30P
813-385-5038
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
17
--
--
--
8/20
8/20/14
4:57P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
15
--
--
--
8/20
8/20/14
9:58P
813-833-1573
Off-Pea
k N&W
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
53
--
--
--
8/21
8/21/14
8:42A
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/21
8/21/14
8:51A
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/21
8/21/14
9:37A
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
16
--
--
--
8/21
8/21/14
10:01A 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/21
8/21/14
10:05A 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/21
8/21/14
11:26A 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/21
8/21/14
11:43A 813-494-1001
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/21
8/21/14
12:16P 813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/21
8/21/14
12:33P 813-477-2847
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/21
8/21/14
12:42P 813-453-6234
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/21
8/21/14
12:44P 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/21
8/21/14
12:49P 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/21
8/21/14
12:57P 813-477-2847
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
49
--
--
--
8/21
8/21/14
1:49P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/21
8/21/14
1:54P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
14
--
--
--
8/21
8/21/14
2:10P
515-864-8431
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Des Moines IA
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/21
8/21/14
2:55P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/21
8/21/14
3:28P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
Lucia Garsys
131
Louis Betz
132
Tampa Housing
Authority
133
Sandy Murman
134
Ken Hagan
135
Ken Hagan
136
Ken Hagan
137
Louis Betz
138
Sandy Murman
139
Sandy Murman
140
Ken Hagan
141
Louis Betz
142
Louis Betz
143
Louis Betz
144
Robert Shimberg
145
Sandy Murman
146
Edwin Turanchik
147
Bob Buckhorn
148
Louis Betz
149
Louis Betz
150
Edwin Turanchik
151
Louis Betz
152
153
154
Louis Betz
155
Louis Betz
156
K
ZW>'
For: 4602
Louis Betz
Director)
Page 153 of 1954

Eds
>Z
Mo Day
Numb
8/21
DATE
Time
Number
Rate
Usage Type
Origination
Destination
Dir
Min.
Airtime Long Dist/

Charges Other Chgs
8/21/14
3:29P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
26
--
--
--
8/21
8/21/14
3:55P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
10
--
--
--
8/21
8/21/14
4:07P
813-520-4451
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
23
--
--
--
8/21
8/21/14
4:31P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/21
8/21/14
5:51P
813-453-6234
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/21
8/21/14
6:10P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
24
--
--
--
8/22
8/22/14
10:53A 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
13
--
--
--
8/22
8/22/14
11:11A 813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
22
--
--
--
8/22
8/22/14
11:40A 813-520-4451
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/22
8/22/14
11:47A 813-833-1573
Peak
Wait
Incoming CL
Incoming
10
--
--
--
8/22
8/22/14
11:57A 813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/22
8/22/14
11:58A 813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/22
8/22/14
12:00P 813-453-6234
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
10
--
--
--
8/22
8/22/14
12:10P 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/22
8/22/14
12:10P 813-520-4451
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/22
8/22/14
12:20P 515-864-8431
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Des Moines IA
Outgoing
27
--
--
--
8/22
8/22/14
1:03P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/22
8/22/14
1:10P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/22
8/22/14
1:12P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
16
--
--
--
8/22
8/22/14
1:38P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/22
8/22/14
3:55P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/22
8/22/14
3:56P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
19
--
--
--
8/22
8/22/14
5:01P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/23
8/23/14
10:48A 813-468-9632
Off-Peak N&W
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
14
--
--
--
8/23
8/23/14
4:13P
813-625-9081
Off-Peak
N&W
Tampa FL
Incoming
--
8/23
8/23/14
4:15P
813-625-9081
Off-Peak N&W
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
1
--Incoming CL
44
---
Incoming
--
Ken Hagan
157
Sandy Murman
158
Parsons Brinckerhoff
159
Sandy Murman
160
Bob Buckhorn
161
Sandy Murman
162
Louis Betz
163
Ken Hagan
164
165
Louis Betz
166
Ken Hagan
167
Sandy Murman
168
Bob Buckhorn
169
Louis Betz
170
171
172
Ken Hagan
173
Louis Betz
174
Ken Hagan
175
Sandy Murman
176
Louis Betz
177
Louis Betz
178
Ken Hagan
179
Ken Hagan
180
181
182
K
ZW>'
For: 4602
Director)
Sandy Murman
Sandy Murman
Page 154 of 1954

Eds
>Z
Mo Day
Numb
8/25
Rate
Usage Type
Origination
Destination
Dir
Min.
Airtime Long Dist/

Charges Other Chgs
DATE
Time
Number
8/25/14
9:36A
813-385-5038
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/25
8/25/14
9:37A
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
10
--
--
8/25
8/25/14
1:45P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/25
8/25/14
10:01A 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
32
--
--
8/25
8/25/14
12:53P 813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/25
8/25/14
12:55P 813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
18
--
--
8/25
8/25/14
3:39P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/25
8/25/14
5:52P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
11
--
--
8/25
8/25/14
6:03P
813-951-8220
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/25
8/25/14
6:04P
813-453-6234
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/25
8/25/14
6:11P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/25
8/25/14
6:16P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
8/25
8/25/14
6:24P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/25
8/25/14
7:06P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/25
8/25/14
7:19P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
17
--
--
8/25
8/25/14
8:08P
813-833-1573
Peak
Wait
Incoming CL
Incoming
38
--
--
8/26
8/26/14
12:56P 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
22
--
--
8/26
8/26/14
3:10P
515-864-8431
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
28
--
--
8/26
8/26/14
4:12P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/26
8/26/14
4:46P
813-951-8220
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/26
8/26/14
4:48P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/26
8/26/14
4:50P
813-951-8220
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
8/26
8/26/14
4:54P
813-625-9081
Peak
Wait
Incoming CL
Incoming
29
--
--
8/26
8/26/14
5:25P
813-951-8220
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
11
--
--
8/26
8/26/14
5:36P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/26
8/26/14
5:38P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
Ken Hagan
183
Ken Hagan
184
Louis Betz
185
Louis Betz
186
Ken Hagan
187
Ken Hagan
188
Louis Betz
189
Sandy Murman
190
Bob Clifford
191
Bob Buckhorn
192
Ken Hagan
193
Ken Hagan
194
Sandy Murman
195
Ken Hagan
196
Ken Hagan
197
Louis Betz
198
199
200
Louis Betz
201
Bob Clifford
202
Sandy Murman
203
Bob Clifford
204
Sandy Murman
205
Bob Clifford
206
Louis Betz
207
Sandy Murman
208
K
ZW>'
For: 4602
Louis Betz
Director)
Page 155 of 1954

Eds
>Z
Mo Day
Numb
8/26
DATE
Time
Number
Rate
Usage Type
Origination
Destination
Dir
Min.
Airtime Long Dist/

Charges Other Chgs
8/26/14
5:44P
813-453-6234
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
8/26
8/26/14
6:39P
813-453-6234
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/26
8/26/14
6:42P
813-478-1159
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Plant City FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/26
8/26/14
6:57P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/26
8/26/14
7:43P
813-478-1159
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Plant City FL
Outgoing
16
--
--
--
8/26
8/26/14
8:05P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
19
--
--
--
8/26
8/26/14
8:32P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
22
--
--
--
8/26
8/26/14
9:43P
813-833-1573
Off-Pea
k N&W
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
51
--
--
--
8/27
8/27/14
9:12A
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
14
--
--
--
8/27
8/27/14
9:56A
515-864-8431
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Des Moines IA
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/27
8/27/14
9:57A
813-494-1001
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
14
--
--
--
8/27
8/27/14
11:28A 813-478-1159
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Plant City FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/27
8/27/14
12:58P 813-478-1159
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Plant City FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/27
8/27/14
2:20P
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
Bob Buckhorn
209
Bob Buckhorn
210
George Walton
211
Ken Hagan
212
George Walton
213
Ken Hagan
214
Sandy Murman
215
Louis Betz
216
217
218
Robert Shimberg
219
George Walton
220
George Walton
221
813-227-8469
Hill Ward & Henderson

P.A.
222
8/27
8/27/14
2:21P
813-494-1001
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/27
8/27/14
2:28P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/27
8/27/14
3:52P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
21
--
--
--
8/27
8/27/14
4:33P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/27
8/27/14
4:45P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/27
8/27/14
5:01P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
23
--
--
--
8/27
8/27/14
5:30P
515-864-8431
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/28
8/28/14
9:42A
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/28
8/28/14
9:58A
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/28
8/28/14
10:05A 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/28
8/28/14
10:50A 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/28
8/28/14
10:51A 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
Robert Shimberg
223
Louis Betz
224
Louis Betz
225
Louis Betz
226
Sandy Murman
227
228
229
Sandy Murman
Director)
Louis Betz
230
Louis Betz
231
Louis Betz
232
Louis Betz
233
Louis Betz
234
K
ZW>'
For: 4602
Ken Hagan
Director)
Page 156 of 1954

Eds
>Z
Mo Day
Numb
8/28
DATE
Time
Number
Rate
Usage Type
Origination
Destination
Dir
Min.
Airtime Long Dist/

Charges Other Chgs
8/28/14
10:55A 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/28
8/28/14
11:05A 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/28
8/28/14
11:07A 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/28
8/28/14
11:13A 813-259-7919
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/28
8/28/14
12:50P 813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/28
8/28/14
12:52P 813-478-1159
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Plant City FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/28
8/28/14
12:53P 813-494-1001
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
36
--
--
--
8/28
8/28/14
1:31P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/28
8/28/14
1:50P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/28
8/28/14
2:04P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/28
8/28/14
2:20P
813-478-1159
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
12
--
--
--
8/28
8/28/14
3:34P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
17
--
--
--
8/28
8/28/14
3:51P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
12
--
--
--
8/28
8/28/14
5:00P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/28
8/28/14
5:11P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/28
8/28/14
6:07P
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/29
8/29/14
11:07A 813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/29
8/29/14
11:12A 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/29
8/29/14
11:14A 813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/29
8/29/14
11:31A 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/29
8/29/14
11:42A 813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/29
8/29/14
12:43P 813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/29
8/29/14
1:25P
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
13
--
--
--
Louis Betz
235
Louis Betz
236
Louis Betz
237
Tampa Tribune
238
Sandy Murman
239
George Walton
240
Robert Shimberg
241
Sandy Murman
242
Ken Hagan
243
Sandy Murman
244
George Walton
245
Louis Betz
246
Louis Betz
247
Sandy Murman
248
Louis Betz
249
Ken Hagan
250
Sandy Murman
251
Louis Betz
252
Ken Hagan
253
Louis Betz
254
Ken Hagan
255
Louis Betz
256
813-221-3900

P.A.
257
8/29
8/29/14
1:54P
813-494-1001
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/29
8/29/14
1:55P
813-221-3900
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
14
--
--
--
Robert Shimberg
258

P.A.
259
8/29
8/29/14
2:09P
813-494-1001
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
K
ZW>'
For: 4602
Tampa FL
Outgoing
12
--
--
-Robert Shimberg
260
Page 157 of 1954

Eds
>Z
Mo Day
Numb
8/29
DATE
Time
Number
Rate
Usage Type
8/29/14
2:21P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
8/29
8/29/14
2:22P
813-833-1573
Peak
8/29
8/29/14
2:26P
813-833-1573
8/29
8/29/14
2:42P
8/29
8/29/14
8/29
8/29/14
Origination
Tampa FL
Destination
Dir
Min.
Airtime Long Dist/

Charges Other Chgs
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
Wait
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Incoming CL
Incoming
12
--
--
--
813-468-9632
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
10
--
--
--
3:20P
813-494-1001
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
3:21P
813-227-8469
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampacen FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
Sandy Murman
261
Louis Betz
262
Louis Betz
263
Ken Hagan
264
Robert Shimberg
265

P.A.
266
8/29
8/29/14
3:36P
813-221-3900
Peak
PlanAllow,Call Tampa FL
Wait
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
--
8/29
8/29/14
5:12P
813-494-1001
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
--
8/29
8/29/14
5:19P
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
10
--
--
--
8/29
8/29/14
6:14P
813-477-2847
Peak
PlanAllow
Tampa FL
Tampa FL
Outgoing
19
--
--
--
9/02
9/02/14
8:13A
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Yountville CA
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
9/02
9/02/14
8:19A
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Yountville CA
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
9/02
9/02/14
12:52P 813-478-1159
Peak
PlanAllow
Saint Hele CA
Plant City FL
Outgoing
--
--
9/04
9/04/14
6:50A
813-951-8220
Peak
M2MAllow
Yountville CA
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
9/04
9/04/14
7:24A
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Yountville CA
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
9/04
9/04/14
7:28A
813-478-1159
Peak
PlanAllow
Yountville CA
Plant City FL
Outgoing
--
--
9/04
9/04/14
1:42P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Yountville CA
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
9/04
9/04/14
1:55P
813-833-1573
Peak
M2MAllow
Yountville CA
Incoming CL
Incoming
--
--
9/05
9/05/14
9:13A
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Sonoma CA
Tampa FL
Outgoing
--
--
9/05
9/05/14
9:14A
813-478-1159
Peak
PlanAllow
Sonoma CA
Plant City FL
Outgoing
--
--
9/05
9/05/14
9:18A
813-478-1159
Peak
PlanAllow
Sonoma CA
Incoming CL
Incoming
10
--
--
9/05
9/05/14
9:32A
813-625-9081
Peak
M2MAllow
Novato CA
Incoming CL
Incoming
20
--
--

P.A.
267
Robert Shimberg
268
Sandy Murman
269
Edwin Turanchik
270
Louis Betz
271
Louis Betz
272
George Walton
273
Bob Clifford
274
Louis Betz
275
George Walton
276
Louis Betz
277
Louis Betz
278
Sandy Murman
279
George Walton
280
George Walton
281
Sandy Murman
282
K
ZW>'
For: 4602
Page 158 of 1954


Attachment Description: MICHAEL WILLIAMS INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:
For: 4602
October 29, 2015/1500 hours

2015-691857
Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222493, Interview of Mike Williams, Director of
Transportation, Planning and Development/County Engineer
CPL. HOLLIS:
Today is October 29, 2015. The time is now 3:00 p.m. This is Corporal
Charles Hollis. ABN is 5603. This interview is being conducted in
reference to the GO Hillsborough investigation by the Hillsborough County
Sheriff's Office. The case number is 15-691857. This interview is being
conducted on the 22nd floor of the county building downtown. Sir, would
you state your name, please?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yes. Mike Williams.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And you're aware our conversation is being recorded?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yes, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I have your permission for that?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Also present for the interview.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Detective Sam Portalatin. ABN 222593.
DET. CLARK:
Detective Trent Clark. ABN 173949.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Mr. Williams, would you raise your right hand, sir? Do you swear or affirm
the information you will provide today is the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth?
MR. WILLIAMS:
I do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. So just a way of introductions Mr. Williams, what's your

position here at the county?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Well, I have two titles.
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Re: Interview of Mike Williams
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
One is County Engineer and the other Director of Transportation Planning

and Development, and both of them are in the Public Works Department.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So what are some of your responsibilities, duties?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Well, the transportation planning part is really looking at kind of an

intermediate transportation planning, being in 10 to 15 years versus like
what the MPO does, which I probably don't need to get into that, but they
do long range planning, like 30 year type planning.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright.
MR. WILLIAMS:
And the development part is we work with developers to the term of what
they're transportation requirements are going to be when your developing
say a single family housing development or something. You know, what
kind of improvements we have to make to the road system. So that's kind
of more or less sort of the two sides of.... The County Engineer hat is
something that I have. We set standards for road construction and
drainage and everything, associated with that. And there's a process
called design exceptions where for example, there's a particular criteria
that can't be met on a project for some reason, then we evaluate those
and ultimately I would sign off if we are going to let you deviate. That kind
of thing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Well, how long have you been at your current position?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Well, the County Engineer hat I've had for several years; probably 5 or 6
years, but this current position has probably been maybe 2 or 3 years.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And the current one being the Transpiration Planning Development. Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Okay. And that's really the hat as it relates to the Go Hillsborough stuff
we've been working on. The County Engineer's not really... it's kind of a
separate thing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Have you... would you say that your focus has been more on the Go
Hillsborough side of things on that hat that you wear as opposed to the
engineer or have they kind of mixed together?
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MR. WILLIAMS:
I'd say they mix together. I mean it really varies day to day. I mean, there's
days that we spend a lot of time on the Go Hillsborough stuff, whether it's
public meetings or you know, kind of figuring out our next steps and
there's days where I spend a lot of time with developers and figuring it, so
it.... I don't know that it's 50/50, but it's, you know, it's a lot of both.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But the transportation side of things really kicked off because of the
Go Hillsborough process would you say?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yeah. I mean there was some stuff I was doing before that, but the Go
Hillsborough has really ramped it up.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Now when you... well, how long have you been working for the
county?
MR. WILLIAMS:
I have been here not quite 11 years.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And in your current position, is there trainings that you go through or
is a lot of it on the job?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yeah, I mean there's occasionally training or it could be even maybe via a

conference or something. You know, you go to a conference and you learn
about different things going on in transportation.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
As kind of funny as that may sound. State of the art things or something.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. Is there a set of manuals or guidelines that you refer to to assist you
with certain things?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Well, like we have our technical manuals I call them or they're called, like
the Transportation Technical Manual, the Storm Water Technical Manual,
the Utility Combination Guide. Those are probably the ones that I deal with
more on a day to day basis. Like we just went through and updated all
those. That's really part of my County Engineer hat, but we just updated
all of those. Any of the design exception stuff would be a deviation from
the criteria in those manuals. Yeah, there's other things I would say I deal
with less often, like procurement manuals or just you know, board policies,
or you know, whatever. Just the various policies.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But there are manuals that you could refer to to help you with that?
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MR. WILLIAMS:
Oh yeah. Yeah. Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And since you brought up procurement, is that a process that you're

involved with when selecting vendors and...?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yeah. I mean, it's not something I do everyday, but....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
There's some involvement with it. It just depends on what I have going on.
Like for the Go Hillsborough, yes, there was some involvement.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Yeah, and we'll talk about that.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
How often do you attend the board meetings; like the BOCC meetings and
also the PLG meetings? Are those ones that you attend?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yeah. Well, I will start with the PLG meetings. The PLG meetings, I attend
all of those. I think I missed one when I was on vacation, but yes, I attend
all of those. The board meetings, it really depends. If I have something on
the agenda that I'm going to need to speak to, then certainly I'm there.
Like the last meeting I was there. I had a couple agenda items and of
course, the next meeting I had some items. But I don't go to everyone of
those. It just really depends on what I have on the agenda.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Who is your boss? Who do you report to?
MR. WILLIAMS:
My direct supervisor is John Lyons.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So just a way of kind drawing up a timeline, in 2011, when the

procurement process began I guess with the 53 eventually down to the 10
firms; it was the general engineering services contract.
MR. WILLIAMS:
General service. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. What was your involvement with that?
MR. WILLIAMS:
I wasn't directly involved with that, so I didn't really.... I mean, I knew what
was going on sort of in general, but....
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, as an engineer, because this was a general services contract for

engineering work, were you involved in any part of that or designing the
scope of services or...?
MR. WILLIAMS:
No. I mean I was aware of what was going on, but frankly, for the scope,
my understanding was we pretty much... because we do these every few
years.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
We copied and reused the scope that we used from the previous group
and the number was less than we.... The number of general civil
consultants that we actually picked.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So you mean the 10 that were picked.
MR. WILLIAMS:
The 10 that were picked... last time I think we had 17 or 18. I don't
remember the exact number, but and the reason for that is we had a lot
more work going on at the time.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
It was something from the TTF was going on; the Transportation Task
Force, so there was a lot of projects so we had....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Was that associated more with the 2010 referendum that they were
attempting?
MR. WILLIAMS:
There was two phases to TTF. There was the first phase that they used
CIT money for. That was a $500 million program.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Is that like Capital Investments or...?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yeah. Capital Investment... Community Investment Tax.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
It's paid for the stadium.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
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MR. WILLIAMS:
Paid for schools.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Paid for jails. It's paid for a number of different capital needs. So it was
two phases. The first phase they took money from CIT and they allocated
towards a defined list of projects and then the second phase of it was the
referendum in 2010.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Which obviously failed.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Which failed.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So 2011. Now as an engineer, is there legislation or things that you

keep your eye on in case it deals with your services, your department? Do
you have people that do it or do you personally look at legislation?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Since I've been in this position, one of things that I do or have been asked
to do is look at legislation that comes in as a session is going on or what
have you. There's people at the county that, you know, work with the
legislature or.... That's probably not the right way to say it, but kind of keep
close... an eye on that. And then as particular legislation comes out, they'll
funnel it to different departments, so if it's something related to Public
Works, they'll send it to Public Works and review those.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. In 2011, when the procurement process was beginning just

beforehand, there was a bill up in Tallahassee; HB-135, that was dealing
with procurement, the procurement process and trying to change that.
Were you aware of any of that?
MR. WILLIAMS:
I don't recall.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I mean the bill ultimately died, but shortly thereafter, the bill dies
when the procurement process has began with the picking of the 10, so I
didn't know if there was any correlation to that.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Not that I'm aware of.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MR. WILLIAMS:
I mean that's not something that we would have, if you're asking did we
purposely delayed it or something? No. Our timing was more based on
when the previous set of contracts were going to run out.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
And starting the process early enough to make the selection and get to
the board with the contract, so that there's not a lapse.
CPL. HOLLIS:
How long does that process typically take?
MR. WILLIAMS:
I'd say anywhere from 3 to 6 months probably from....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Is that... that's the average?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yeah. It probably averages 3 to 4, but sometimes they could drag on.

We've had cases, not for these but for some others, that went on for a
couple of years because people protested and....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
You know, they protested the selection or whatever and we had to start
over and....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you remember when that was or what that was about necessarily?
MR. WILLIAMS:
I remember what it was about. This was probably 3 or 4 years ago. This
was on the storm water side of what we do. We had the models, the big
storm water models. They're complex, you know, computer programs
really, for different areas of the county and we were going out for services
to update the model and there was a selection committee which I was not
on and they selected the consultant. One of the companies that didn't win
the contract protested. Ultimately, it went to the board and the board told
us start over.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh. Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
They felt like.... They never said that they felt the staff did anything wrong,
but they just felt like, you know what? Let's just start over to make sure
this is clean and....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Were there allegations of why they weren't selected? Do you know?
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MR. WILLIAMS:
Yeah, there was allegations that somebody on the committee didn't like
the consultant and therefore didn't pick them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you remember...?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Or purposely....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you remember that company who that was?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yes. It escapes me at the moment. Elia Raj is the company's president. I

think it was Applied Sciences is the name of the company.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And that was like 3 or 4 years ago?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yeah. Ultimately we went back through the process. I was on the

committee and we picked the consultant and moved forward and the
board ordered the contract.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But Applied Sciences are the one that protested. They ultimately
didn't get, once it was retried again, they still weren't picked for...?
MR. WILLIAMS:
As I recall, they didn't get it in the second, the next time through. They did
get a contract subsequent to that in like a future group. Because we do
these frequently.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So the procurement process is a pretty standard... is it a pretty standard

practice?
MR. WILLIAMS:
What do you mean standard practice?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, when you're procuring, when you're trying to obtain and there's a
process that you all go through.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is it pretty standard?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's a defined process in accordance with the

statutes, CCNA statutes. You know, you have to select the most qualified
firm and all that stuff and there's pretty well defined questions and criteria.
You have a little bit of flexibility, but it's pretty well defined.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. When the PLG was established, it was originally called the TED, the
Transportation....
MR. WILLIAMS:
For Economic Development.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. Were you part of that process in forming that group? Did you have
input on that?
MR. WILLIAMS:
You mean like who would be on the TED?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. WILLIAMS:
No. That was really kind of Mr. Merrill and....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is he somebody that you meet with frequently?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Not frequently, but I meet with him often enough and about various things,
projects that I might be working on.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Just overall, I mean Public Works is one of his areas that he's over.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yeah. I actually have.... Mr. Merrill obviously is the county administrator.

Below him in our chain is Lucia Garsys and then John Lyons works for the
Lucia.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. Okay. So kind of jump forward a little bit. So August 12th, 2014,
there's a PLG meeting. Did you attend that when it was decided to give
Mike Merrill direction to move forward hiring a private firm?
MR. WILLIAMS:
I'd have to check because there was one of those meetings during that
time frame when I was on vacation.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
I don't remember for sure if it was that one or one of the ones right around
there.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Were you contacted after that meeting about that it was time to
choose somebody and did you have any input on how that process would
be?
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MR. WILLIAMS:
Yeah. Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Can you tell me about that?
MR. WILLIAMS:
I don't remember how the specific contact went, but I just remember that
the board or the PLG actually, wanted to have a public engagement
process and hire a professional firm that had experience doing, you know,
this kind of referendum stuff. There was an engineering component
because we were going to look at cost estimates. They didn't want a PR
firm to be running this and it was something we needed to do fairly quickly.
We didn't really have time to go through the, you know, the standard 3 to 6
month CCNA process or even if it's not specifically CCNA, just that
procurement process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Basically, you've already done the 53 down to the 10, so you pretty much
had been the same thing again.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And that would have taken some time? Well, what was the hurry? Was
that explained what's with the hurry?
MR. WILLIAMS:
I mean I just think that the Policy Leadership Group wanted to get this
going. There was... this has been going on for, I don't know, a couple
years and you know, they wanted to see some stuff happening and start
engaging the public and start really figuring out where this was ultimately
going to go.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So who contacted you about that or who were you working with
about that?
MR. WILLIAMS:
I don't remember, but I remember John and me and Larry Scully were
going to look at our general civil list and figure out which firms kind of met
that criteria that the PLG gave us. Oh and that's..which brings up a good
point. One of the other things is they wanted like a national type firm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Not somebody local.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Right. Not a local firm because, you know, our list we have both. We have
national firms with thousands of employees or international firms really
and we have firms that are local. For a lot of the work we do, either one
could do a job just as well, but because the referendum is kind of a unique
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thing, I think they really wanted something more... people with experience
and a broader knowledge base.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
And the ability to pull resources from maybe other parts of the country
even.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So how did you narrow it down? After you're looking at the 10, how did
you determine which one's would qualify?
MR. WILLIAMS:
So we looked at the 10. We started with 10 and we tried to... or not tried,
we eliminated the ones that were the more local firms and just really kind
of picked on or not picked, but settled on 4 that were really national type
firms.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did you reach out? So you had the 10, did you reach out to those 6
then that you excluded?
MR. WILLIAMS:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So your excluding of them was just based on looking at, I guess,
whatever information you had on them at the time?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yeah. I mean, most of these firms, if not all of them, have been in this
business for a long time. I've worked with probably all of them in one form
or another. And they're good firms, but I know which ones are more local
and which ones are more national just from my experience.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because you've done this for a while. Yes.
MR. WILLIAMS:
And working with them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
That's understandable.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Because I've been doing it for a long time.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And then you're also working with John and Mr. Scully.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yes.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
So can you tell me what Mr. Scully's role was, because I understand he's
not an employee for the county, correct?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Correct. He... well, he does consulting and advising and it's some kind of
agreement through Bonnie Wise's group. I don't know exactly. But he's
advised us on big projects like this or....
CPL. HOLLIS:
So you've worked with him before?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yeah. The thing I've been working with him is we have this water ferry
project. I don't know if you've heard anything about that, but it's a publicprivate partnership and that's really kind of his expertise and what he was
really, part of what he was brought in to advise us on, so that's, I had...
and I don't know if you've seen the text messages and stuff, but I sent
some text messages those were really with regard to the ferry project.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. WILLIAMS:
I sent them anyway.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. WILLIAMS:
You know. Nothing to hide. But so Larry, because he's got a lot of
experience with big national type, huge type projects, we had some phone
discussions with him about, you know, what we were trying to do and the
list and maybe reaching out to the firms, the four.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you remember the names of the four?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
RS&H, HNTB, PB, and HDR.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Was there anybody at those four firms that you reached out to
personally?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MR. WILLIAMS:
I have to think about each of the four, but let me go through them one at a
time. RS&H, I reached out to one of our local contacts here.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you remember his name?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Mike Coleman.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Mike Coleman?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
I had a discussion with him just kind of in general if they've done this type
of work and if so, you know, what he could tell me about it. He stated he
have to get back with me. He sent me an email back, which I actually
gave to the auditor that I met with or sent him a copy of where he said
we've not done this. We'd be glad to work for you, but we don't have that
type of experience that you're looking for.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
I reached out to a gentleman at HNTB; a guy named Jim Drapp. Talked to

him about what we were looking for and he said yeah, we've done this.
We've done it other parts of the country. At that time, they were working on
Greenlight Pinellas, which is the one in Pinellas last year, I guess. And
they were still doing a little bit of work for Greenlight. Kind of providing
material and information still for Greenlight. I reached out to a guy at HDR
whose name escapes me.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Matt Ryan?
MR. WILLIAMS:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Larry Lowell.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
And Larry didn't get back to me right away. Yeah, he didn't.... It took him a
while and I don't know that he ever really did get back with me, which I'll
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kind of circle back around in minute. But and then I contacted PB as well;
George Walton, and kind of similar to HNTB. Said yeah, we've done this
kind of stuff. We've, you know, we've done it all over the country and have
experience. While I was doing that, Larry was reaching out. Larry Scully
was reaching out more to the national level people.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Of those same firms?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Of the same firms.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
I don't know that he reached out to RS&H because I think I told him that
they hadn't done it, but the other three to kind of get some information
from them and kind of reach out to their.... Because this is the type of thing
that the local people may not necessarily have experience with, but
maybe they do at the national level. You know, maybe they have a person
in Atlanta or something.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. WILLIAMS:
So he was reaching out trying to get information from some of the national
type people.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
And I think that's where it kind of the Matt Ryan came in and Larry
ultimately got to this Matt Ryan guy.
CPL. HOLLIS:
With HDR?
MR. WILLIAMS:
With HDR.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. And as far as HNTB, so you talked to Jim, but maybe Larry talked to
somebody else and got some kind of correspondence back?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yeah. I think so.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because in talking to Jim, he didn't..you didn't.
MR. WILLIAMS:
I didn't ask him to send anything.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
I did not ask any of them to send me anything at the time.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Larry was doing that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright.
MR. WILLIAMS:
He was, you know, resumes or what projects he was working on or

whatever. That kind of stuff.
CPL. HOLLIS:
That makes sense. I mean, because obviously in speaking to them we

didn't realize there were other people that were contacted until we spoke
to Larry.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Oh, yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And it appeared that, you know, Jim was like I had a 15 minute
conversation with Mike and then that's the last I heard.
MR. WILLIAMS:
That's probably about what it was.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But there were other people involved.
MR. WILLIAMS:
We were reaching out to other people in the company.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And the three of you; you, John, and Mr. Scully, that process....
Before you decided on Parsons ultimately, how long did that process
take?
MR. WILLIAMS:
I don't know. Maybe a week or two. I don't remember exactly, but....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Alright.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Something like that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So you talk to the four. RS&H was eliminated because they hadn't done it
before and they weren't really....
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MR. WILLIAMS:
Yeah, I mean, and they said, they ultimately said hey, we like working for
the county, but we've never done it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Any issues with the other three in your experience in working with them?
MR. WILLIAMS:
I've worked with all three in the past. They've all done good work for me.
So no, I mean, I've had good experiences with all of them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Was there anything in any of them that concerned you about maybe using
them for this project?
MR. WILLIAMS:
No, not really. But the one thing I would say is HDR we had a hard time
getting anything, getting them to send us anything. It was like they just
weren't responsive or didn't.... I don't know. It just....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, is fair to say that if Larry got some information, it may not have been
shared with you all right away or did you all keep...?
MR. WILLIAMS:
No. We were keeping in contact with each other, the three of us.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because the emails that I've been sent from HDR just show that John
Lyons reached out to Matt Ryan to kind of say hey, Larry Scully is going to
contact you. A few days later, I think August 25th, Larry contacts Matt
Ryan. They have discussion. The next day, Matt sends over basically a 2page, it's described as a PowerPoint, but just kind of documenting hey,
these are the projects we've done and this is what we could do for you. So
it was a day turn around. So was there other information that you all were
asking about? Because to me that seems like that's a pretty reasonable
turn around time as far as seeing information.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Well, again when I reached out to them, it was just like Jim Drapp told you,
it was a brief discussion with all them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. And you spoke to somebody else though, correct? You said Larry or
a....
MR. WILLIAMS:
At HDR?
CPL. HOLLIS:
At HDR. You didn't speak to Matt.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yeah. Larry Lowell.
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Larry Lowell.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yeah. They were more brief conversations and at the same time I knew
Larry was reaching out to the higher level people.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
I don't recall if what they sent was just not very responsive, meaning...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Were just not impressive with what you all were looking...?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yeah. Yeah. Maybe that's a good way to say it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
It just didn't kind of meet the standard I guess of what we thought we

were... had asked them for.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did John Lyons share with you his, I guess past experiences with HDR on
other projects?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Not at the time, but I know, you know, there's been issues with HDR. For
example, the reservoir. You probably heard about that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. WILLIAMS:
And they ultimately won in court, so, you know, court decided I guess they
were in the right. I don't remember if it was before or after, but I know they
had some issues with them on a project on a water treatment plant. But
that really didn't effect anything or....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. That would be my question. Does that effect your decision in not
choosing them?
MR. WILLIAMS:
No. For a couple of reasons. One, it wasn't really brought up or discussed

and secondly, even it was, typically it's different people.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And different departments I guess....
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yeah. They're kind of like us, you know, they have a public works or
whatever, but they have different departments that would do say a project
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like what John had versus something like this versus, you know, whatever.
A parks project or something.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Particularly with a large company like that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So what would you say the reason why HDR was not chosen?
MR. WILLIAMS:
It's just they didn't seem as responsive as the other two.
CPL. HOLLIS:
As HNTB and PB.
MR. WILLIAMS:
PB.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Parsons. Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
If that was indication of how it was going to be moving forward, we

couldn't have that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So then you have your two.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And why ultimately is Parsons chosen?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Well we..the three of us; John and Larry and me, we were comfortable
with either one and really didn't, you know, there was nothing really that
pointed that this one's better than this one or vice-versa.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did the Pinellas Greenlight initiative have....
MR. WILLIAMS:
Well, so ultimately, there was a big meeting up on 26 with Mr. Merrill and
there was other people there where we talked about the two firms. Well,
we really talked about all four, but kind of how we got to the two and it
was... for us, it was almost like you need to flip a coin and so Mike had
some questions and one of the things that was brought up was are they
working on Greenlight, actively working on it and we said well, HNTB told
me they are so we said, you know, they're working on it and that was kind
of the... call it a tiebreaker or whatever the difference between the two
firms.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. WILLIAMS:
But they were really both... they're good firms.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
And either one of them I think would have done a good job for us.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So y'all recommended Parsons to Mike then?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Well, it was really in that discussion where we kind of as a group kind of

came to that decision.
CPL. HOLLIS:
To select Parsons?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
When you all were there deciding, when you were looking at the 10, who
had knowledge that you all were looking at the 10 firms? Was that a list
that you all released out to board members or other people or did you all
kind of keep that kind of between you?
MR. WILLIAMS:
No. I mean I think that was something we just did on our own at this level.
I mean, certainly the board approves those contracts, so if they wanted to
know...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Ultimately, yeah.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Ultimately who our general civil consultants are, they could find out or look
on the past agendas or whatever, but there was nobody to my knowledge
that was asking about the 10 or one particular firm or anything like that.
There was nothing that was brought to my attention anyway.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did anybody contact you and tell you who to choose?
MR. WILLIAMS:
For this? No. Absolutely not.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Even somebody internally within the county or even from the
outside?
MR. WILLIAMS:
The only discussions until we had that meeting with Mike was between
Larry and John and me.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did you feel you were pressured into choosing Parsons as the
company?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Not at all.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Beth Leytham is somebody obviously that's been brought up during this

whole Go Hillsborough. When did you meet her?
MR. WILLIAMS:
After we had already select Parsons, there was a meeting scheduled over
at their office at some point and she was there. I didn't know her before
that. I had heard the name. I'd seen her name in the newspaper, that kind
of stuff, but I didn't know her. Never met her before that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Never had any contact with her for any projects?
MR. WILLIAMS:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I know what the answer is, but did she contact you or tell you, encourage
you to choose Parsons?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Like I said, no contact with her. I didn't even know her.
CPL. HOLLIS:
When you saw her at the meeting, what did you assume in seeing her
there? That she worked for Parsons, that she was there to assist with this
project?
MR. WILLIAMS:
What did I assume... Well, for a big project like this certainly there's going
to be, or part of this was to have public outreach to engage the
community.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So and seeing her, you knew that's what she did? You knew that's what
she did?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Well, because I had seen her name in the paper and when her name
was...? I mean, I wouldn't have recognized her.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
You know you could have walked 10 different people in there, I wouldn't
have known which one was Beth at the time, but when her name was
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Case No: 2015-691857
mentioned I realized that hey, that's what they're going to use her to help
with the public engagement part of this and what have you.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Are you aware if she ever worked for Parsons in the past before this
project?
MR. WILLIAMS:
I would assume she probably had as a sub, but not anything specific.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Are you aware of anyone that tried to influence not just you, but Mr.
Scully or John Lyons or Mike Merrill in choosing of Parsons?
MR. WILLIAMS:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Given this process, do you feel the process was fair and done properly?
MR. WILLIAMS:
I do. I do. I very much do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
If it could all.... Obviously, in light of everything's that's going on today, is

there anything you could change with the process, would you?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Well, I'll answer this way. Given the facts that we had at the time, I think
we did the right thing. We made the right decision. In hindsight, just
because of all the scrutiny that this has brought to the Go Hillsborough
effort that's really detracting from a really good effort that we're trying to
make the community better, you know, had we gone through kind of an
acquisition process, you know, maybe we wouldn't have had all this
scrutiny, but I don't think we did anything wrong. You know, from that
perspective I think we did what we had to do with the time.. timing that we
had to do it in.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because you all did have kind of a time table you all were looking at.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yeah. Again, the PLG wanted to move forward with this and start having
public engagement.
CPL. HOLLIS:
If you all had done the procurement process, I know it's easier, you know,
to say, but do you think Parsons would have been chosen ultimately?
MR. WILLIAMS:
It's hard to say. I mean, I've done a lot of these procurements over the
years and there's been times when you go in just, you know, what you
know about firms. Thinking yeah, they're going to be the one to beat and
they don't do a good job or they.... So I don't think... it wouldn't have
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necessarily been Parsons. It could have been HNTB. It could have been
anybody.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But just given you all were looking at this list, they were the best qualified
once you narrowed it down.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yeah, well really the two were....
CPL. HOLLIS:
The two. Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Are pretty equal, but yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Are you satisfied with the work that they've done?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yeah, I think they've done a great job.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And also with Beth Leytham, have you had to work with her any part of the
project?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yes. She's been in meetings and different things. Yeah. She's been very
good to work with.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. That's all I have right now. Do you mind if they ask you any
questions?
MR. WILLIAMS:
No, thank you. I'm just kidding. Sure. Yeah. If you guys have questions.
That's fine.
DET. PORTALATIN:
My question would be during the time frame when you were going to
make the selection or looking at possibly finding a firm, did it ever arise or
was it ever criteria to look at the consultant firm or the consultant that
would be used by the engineering firm as part of their criteria for the
selection?
MR. WILLIAMS:
You mean like the subs... like subs they might use?
DET. PORTALATIN:
Yeah I guess.. kind of... it's not a very large chunk of it. At least a very
important part of it. Was that part of the criteria for selection?
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MR. WILLIAMS:
No. We didn't really... I don't recall that being a big issue of who their subs
were or they might use. I feel like with something like this, if they brought
in a subject that we weren't comfortable with or we didn't like, we could tell
them look, you need to get a different sub or that wasn't performing we
could ask them bring.... Because the prime is the one that's ultimately
responsible with these.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Because our contract is PB. If they have subs, it's kind of like if they have
employees even, if you're one of the employees and you're working on
this project and you're just not getting it done for some reason, we have
the ability to ask you to be removed.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Okay. I did notice them looking at some of the documents that were used
to make selection first from 53 down to 10 and a lot of those firms
submitted names of people that were on there, an employee list. Was that
anything looked at during that time frame do you know?
MR. WILLIAMS:
No. We didn't look at that.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Okay. Those are my only two questions. Thank you.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Okay. Sure.
DET. CLARK:
This is Detective Clark. I have a question. Because you guys concentrated

on the free selection list or the top 10 people already under contract,
reference Corporal's question about if the process were done the
traditional way where it would have been open to those outside of those
10 and maybe the top 53, are any firms there that had national experience
and some of the qualifications that maybe if there would have been a list
made being just of those who may not have been under contract in the
preselection of the top10, but had those qualifications as the national
referendum experience.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Right.
DET. CLARK:
So forth and so on. Are any people there that would have maybe
challenged PB or the top two that you can think of?
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MR. WILLIAMS:
I'm sure there are. I know one other firm because I have a friend that
works in another firm that's not on the gen civ list that he had mentioned to
me that, you know, they've done this kind of thing before. So I'm sure
there are other firms that knowing the criteria would have submitted a
letter of interest, but of the 53 I'm sure not all of those 53 would have
submitted a letter. You know, because they would've realized that hey, this
just isn't up our alley or.... So I'm sure there are others that are in that top
10 that have probably done this kind of thing before.
DET. CLARK:
Because one of the things was that everybody was under contract already,
so it speeds up the process with the preselection.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yes, sir.
DET. CLARK:
But in any way did that limit, and that's what I'm getting at, where it offends
you because maybe you weren't in the top 20 because the criteria. It begs
whether or not there should have been a list of those with national
experience as part of the pool. Like everybody with national experience
and then those with national experience or referendum experience then
be selected.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Well....
DET. CLARK:
Or we don't have a process for that?
MR. WILLIAMS:
I think the answer is we don't have the process, but let me....
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir.
MR. WILLIAMS:
You know, when we get those letters of interest, the 53 that you
referenced, we ultimately call that down to the top 10 and those are the
ones that we have contracts with. If there's 11 through 53, we don't have
contracts with them and we just, you know, it's not like number 11, we're
just waiting for another project and we're going to put them under contract
somehow. 11 through 53, are you know, we deal with 1 through 10 if we
have projects that are suitable for those contracts. There are some
projects that we have that aren't really suitable for those contracts and we
go out for stand alone consultant acquisitions anyway.
DET. CLARK:
And that's what I'm saying. Apparently, the one of the four said that we
don't have, we're not suitable for that.
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MR. WILLIAMS:
Right. They're a national firm.
DET. CLARK:
Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMS:
But they hadn't done work on referendums.
DET. CLARK:
Right. So my thing that because they didn't fit your criteria and when
you're going out to select, that you would need... you knew what you're
criteria was that needed to be met and was there a way that you could
have gone to the normal procurement process instead of the preselect list
this. You know, other than.... It's supposed to save you guys time, but
apparently it didn't.
MR. WILLIAMS:
No, it did.
DET. CLARK:
It take the time of coming down to the one, but the process is slowed to
say the least, but in open procurement, if it would've been open... because
you still have a choice about open procurement?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Absolutely.
DET. CLARK:
Okay. If it were an open procurement, we would've had a different pool of

firms that would maybe would have been all qualified.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Sure. We would've.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MR. WILLIAMS:
But that's that process I was talking about that's 3 to 6 months.
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir.
MR. WILLIAMS:
To go from we want to have a consultant to getting somebody under

contract and that's where the other could've been 5, 10, 15 firms maybe
that met that national.... Probably not 15, but met that criteria that we were
looking for. There certainly would've more than the three, two or three that
met the criteria and on our general civil list. So I don't know if that answers
you question, but....
DET. CLARK:
Yeah. Because my thing, you know, because some were out of that list
being so narrow to come down to two and you know, the other one is just
you would've had more selection with your... finally, you know, even it
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would've took 90 days, because we're talking about going back to a
couple of years ago now.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Right.
DET CLARK:
So we had time, but we had a time frame or a time schedule that this must
be done now, but there actually was time, three months, a couple of years
ago would have been to get more selection. Maybe it would've been more
prudent. And looking back now at all the public scrutiny that's based on no
open procurement or proceed without open procurement.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Right.
DET. CLARK:
90 days might have been, you know, Monday morning quarterbacking it,
maybe would've been better one, for the selections of firms, a better pool
of firms of who are interested.
MR. WILLIAMS:
It would have been a larger pool. I agree. We might have ended up with
PB. Don't know. Because we didn't do that. And like I said before, to your
question, you know, in hindsight, not because I think PBs the wrong firm
or hasn't done a good job, but simply because of the... you know, because
it's hurt this effort that we've been working really hard on. You know,
maybe it would've been better. I don't know, because you know at the
same time the people that have had issue with this may have had issue
with whatever other firm we had as well because I feel like a lot of them
ultimately at the end of the day, they just don't want a sales tax
referendum and so you know, that's really their end game I feel like. And
you know, they're attacking it different ways.
DET. CLARK:
I don't have anymore questions.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Just one question.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Direct Select method, which ultimately was used, how often have you
been involved in that?
MR. WILLIAMS:
I mean I've done it several times.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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Case No: 2015-691857
MR. WILLIAMS:
We don't do it all the time and that process was really our process, the
Direct Select, because the goal really is to spread the work between the
10 firms and so, you know, and that's kind of our process or our... the way
we like to do business to spread the work. But I've done it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Let's say that, you know, I know Parsons is wrapping up. They're
supposed to do a presentation, I guess, next month.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Thursday. Next Thursday, which is next month. Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And let's say they do their presentation, their work is complete, it goes on
the ballot, it passes, so now there's the list of projects. Is there any
possibility that Parsons is used for some of those projects? Would they
have to go through a procurement in that regards?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Yeah. Is it possible? Sure it is.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
They would have to go through either standalone procurement or if we're

using the general civils, we would, you know, put them on the list and...or
they would...
CPL. HOLLIS:
But because they were involved in this whole process, you know, looking
at everything. Maybe issuing designs, costs, all that, there's no guarantee
because they did this we're going to use them?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Oh, no, no, no.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Not at all. Not at all. Not at all.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright, sir. I don't think we have any more questions. Anything else you'd
like to say or...?
MR. WILLIAMS:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. If we need to meet you in the future, is that okay?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Sure.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
If we had some other questions?
MR. WILLIAMS:
No, that's fine. You can call or set up time or whatever works for you guys.
CPL. HOLLIS:
One more question. I know I'd asked you about anybody contacting you.
Any commissioners have reached out to you about encouraging you to
choose Parsons?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Not at all. Not at all.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you ever meet with the commissioners?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Sometimes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Outside the meetings?
MR. WILLIAMS:
Oh, no. Yeah. I mean like for briefings or something occasionally in their
office, that kind of thing occasionally. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright. Thank you, sir.
MR. WILLIAMS:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
The time is 3:49 p.m.
End of interview.
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Related Event(s)
CP
HS2015-691857
Related Person(s)
1. Subject # 1 - LEYTHAM, BETHANY RAHNAE
(Case Specific Information)
Sex: FEMALE
Race: WHITE
Date of birth: Sep-28-1962
Address: 5206 SUWANEE AV N
Municipality: TAMPA , Florida 33603
District: T3 Beat: Grid: TA0070
Phone Numbers
Business: (813) 223-5951
Cellular: (813) 245-1522
Email: BETHLEYTHAM@AOL.COM
Particulars
Place of birth: Florida
Occupation: PR CONSULTANT
Employer: THE LEYTHAM GROUP 518 TAMPA ST N TAMP, FL 33602
Citizenship: America, United States of
Ethnicity: Not of Hispanic Origin
Language(s) spoken: English
Height: 5'01
Disability: No
Build: Medium Complexion: Fair
Eye color: Blue Lens type: Contacts
Hair color: Brown
Hair style: Straight, Medium (Shoulder Length)
Additional remarks: PRESIDENT OF THE LEYTHAM GROUP
Master Name Index Reference

Name: LEYTHAM, BETHANY RAHNAE
Sex: FEMALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 5206 SUWANEE AV N
Phone numbers
Business: (813) 223-5951
Cellular: (813) 245-1522
For: 4602
Page 187 of 1954

2. Subject # 2 - HIGGINBOTHAM, ALLEN HOLT JR

Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Date of birth: May-19-1954
Address: 6322 BARTON RD
Municipality: PLANT CITY , Florida 33565
District: D2 Beat: Grid: HS3471
Phone Numbers
Business: (813) 272-5735
Email: HIGGINBOTHAMA@HILLSBOROUGHCOUNTY.ORG
Particulars
Occupation: COMMISSIONER
Employer: HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY 601 KENNEDY BL E
Height: 6'00
Build: Thin Complexion: Fair
Eye color: Brown
Hair color: Brown
Hair style: Straight, Bald, Receding
Additional remarks: COMMISSIONER DISTRICT 7 HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY

Name: HIGGINBOTHAM, ALLEN HOLT JR
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 6322 BARTON RD
Phone numbers
Business: (813) 272-5735
Linkage factors
Resident status : Resident
Age range : 50-64 Years
3. Subject # 3 - BUCKHORN, ROBERT F

Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
For: 4602
Page 188 of 1954

Date of birth: Jul-29-1958

Address: 175 BALTIC CR
Phone Numbers
Business: (813) 274-8251
Email: BOB.BUCKHORN@TAMPAGOV.NET
Particulars
Place of birth: Illinois
Occupation: MAYOR
Employer: CITY OF TAMPA 306 EAST JACKSON STREET
Height: 5'08
Eye color: Blue
Hair color: Gray or Partially Gray/Salt and Pepper
Hair style: Straight, Receding
Additional remarks: MAYOR CITY OF TAMPA / LIST AS CONFIDENTIAL

Name: BUCKHORN, ROBERT F
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 175 BALTIC CR
Phone numbers
Business: (813) 274-8251
4. Subject # 4 - CLIFFORD, ROBERT M

Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Date of birth: Nov-05-1964
Address: 18709 CHOPIN DR
Municipality: LUTZ , Florida 33558
Particulars
Place of birth: New York
Occupation: VICE PRESIDENT
Employer: PARSONS BRINCKERHOFF TAMPA 2202 N. WEST SHORE BOULEVARD
For: 4602
Page 189 of 1954


Height: 5'09
Eye color: Blue
Hair color: Brown
Hair style: Straight, Short

Name: CLIFFORD, ROBERT M
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Date of birth: Nov-05-1964
Address: 18709 CHOPIN DR
Linkage factors
Resident status : Non-Resident
5. Subject # 5 - WISE, BONNIE MOORE

Sex: FEMALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 4603 TENNYSON AV W
Phone Numbers
Business: (813) 272-7418
Particulars
Place of birth: New York
Occupation: CFO
Height: 5'04
Eye color: Blue
Hair color: Blond/Strawberry
For: 4602
Page 190 of 1954

Name: WISE, BONNIE MOORE

Sex: FEMALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 4603 TENNYSON AV W
Phone numbers
Business: (813) 272-7418
Linkage factors
6. Subject # 6 - CHILLURA, FRANK

Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Date of birth: Dec-08-1967
Address: 1703 RIVERHILLS DR N
Phone Numbers
Business: (813) 506-6440
Email: FCHILLURA@TEMPLETERRACE.COM
Particulars
Place of birth: Italy (includes Sicily and Sardinia)
Occupation: MAYOR
Employer: CITY OF TEMPLE TERRACE 11250 56TH ST N
Height: 5'10
Build: Medium Complexion: Medium
Eye color: Brown
Hair color: Black
Additional remarks: MAYOR OF TEMPLE TERRACE /

Name: CHILLURA, FRANK
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
For: 4602
Page 191 of 1954

Address: 1703 RIVERHILLS DR N

Phone numbers
Business: (813) 506-6440
Linkage factors
7. Subject # 7 - MARLOWE, HERBERT ARTHUR JR

Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 26910 SW 30TH AVE
Municipality: NEWBERRY , Florida 32669Phone Numbers
Business: (352) 339-6090
Particulars
Occupation: MANAGER
Employer: ARRINGTON AND MARLOWE LLC 1010CAMPHOR LN DELAND FL
Height: 6'00
Eye color: Brown Lens type: Glasses

Name: MARLOWE, HERBERT ARTHUR JR
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 26910 SW 30TH AVE
Municipality: NEWBERRY , Florida 32669Phone numbers
Business: (352) 339-6090
8. Subject # 8 - LYONS, JOHN W

Sex: MALE
For: 4602
Page 192 of 1954

Race: WHITE
Date of birth: Oct-05-1956
Address: 4416 GENTRICE DR
Municipality: VALRICO , Florida 33594
Phone Numbers
Business: (813) 635-5400
Cellular: (813) 643-5951
Email: LYONSJ@HILLSBOROUGHCOUNTY.ORG
Particulars
Place of birth: Indiana
Occupation: DIRECTOR
Employer: HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY PUBLIC WOR 601 KENEDY BL E, 22ND FLOOR
Height: 5'08
Additional remarks: DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY

Name: LYONS, JOHN W
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 4416 GENTRICE DR
Phone numbers
Business: (813) 635-5400
Cellular: (813) 643-5951
Linkage factors
9. Subject # 9 - HAGAN, KENNETH LAMAR JR

Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 2107 MAGDALENE MANOR DR
For: 4602
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Phone Numbers
Home: (813) 468-9632
Business: (813) 272-5725
Email: HAGANS@AOL.COM
Particulars
Employer: HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY COMMISION 601 KENNEDY BL E
Marital status: Married
Height: 6'00 Weight: 225 lbs.
Disability: No
Build: Large Complexion: Fair
Eye color: Brown
Hair color: Brown
Additional remarks: VI REF CRIM MISH MAILBOX

Name: HAGAN, KENNETH LAMAR JR
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 2107 MAGDALENE MANOR DR
Phone numbers
Home: (813) 468-9632
Business: (813) 272-5725
Linkage factors
10. Subject # 10 - BECKNER, KEVIN ALLEN

Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
For: 4602
Page 194 of 1954

Phone Numbers
Business: (813) 272-5730
Particulars
Employer: HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY COMMISSION 601 KENNEDY BL E
Height: 6'00
Eye color: Brown
Hair color: Brown
Additional remarks: COUNTY COMMISSIONER DISTRICT 6

Name: BECKNER, KEVIN ALLEN
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Phone numbers
Business: (813) 272-5730
11. Subject # 11 - SCULLY, LARRY

Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Date of birth: Jan-30-1949
Address: 2353 EDGEWOOD ST E
Municipality: ARLINGTON , Virginia 22201-4318
Phone Numbers
Business: (202) 775-3434
Cellular: (202) 841-4451
Home: (703) 522-1314
Particulars
Occupation: CONSULTANT
Employer: SCULLY CAPITAL SERVICES 1133 15TH ST NW STE 900 , DC
For: 4602
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Additional remarks: PRESIDENT OF SCULLY CAPITAL SERVICES

Name: SCULLY, LARRY
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 2353 EDGEWOOD ST E
Municipality: ARLINGTON , Virginia 22201-4318
Phone numbers
Business: (202) 775-3434
Cellular: (202) 841-4451
Home: (703) 522-1314
Linkage factors
12. Subject # 12 - MILLER, LESLEY JAMES JR

Sex: MALE
Race: BLACK/AFRICAN AMERICAN
Date of birth: Apr-21-1951
Address: 2505 38TH AV E
Phone Numbers
Business: 272-5720
Email: MILLERLJ@HILLSBOROUGHCOUNTY.ORG
Particulars
Employer: HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY COMMISSION 601 KENNEDY BL E
Height: 6'02
Build: Medium Complexion: Medium Brown
Hair style: Short
Facial hair color: Gray or Partially Gray
Facial hair style: Mustache
Additional remarks: HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY COMMISSIONER DISTRICT 3

Name: MILLER, LESLEY JAMES JR
Sex: MALE
For: 4602
Page 196 of 1954

Race: BLACK/AFRICAN AMERICAN

Address: 2505 38TH AV E
Phone numbers
Business: 272-5720
Linkage factors
13. Subject # 13 - LOPEZ, LIANA

Sex: FEMALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 210 LINCOLN AV N
Phone Numbers
Cellular: (813) 453-9731
Business: (813) 272-5900
Email: LOPEZLIA@HILLSBOROUGHCOUNTY.ORG
Particulars
Occupation: COM ADMINISTRAT
Height: 5'05
Eye color: Brown
Hair color: Brown
Additional remarks: COMMUNICATIONS ADMINISTRATOR

Name: LOPEZ, LIANA
Sex: FEMALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 210 LINCOLN AV N
For: 4602
Page 197 of 1954


Phone numbers
Cellular: (813) 453-9731
Business: (813) 272-5900
Linkage factors
14. Subject # 14 - GARSYS, LUCIA EGLE

Sex: FEMALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 4116 DALE AV W
Phone Numbers
Email: GARSYSL@HILLSBOROUGHCOUNTY.ORG
Particulars
Occupation: DEP CO ADMINIST
Height: 5'07
Disability: No
Eye color: Blue
Hair style: Short, Unkempt
Additional remarks: DEPUTY COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR

Name: GARSYS, LUCIA EGLE
Sex: FEMALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 4116 DALE AV W
Phone numbers
Linkage factors
For: 4602
Page 198 of 1954

15. Subject # 15 - SHARPE, MARK STEPHEN

Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 113 GLEN AV S
Phone Numbers
Cellular: (813) 390-5092
Cellular: (813) 873-8746
Email: SHARPEM@HILLSBOROUGHCOUNTY
Particulars
Occupation: CONSULTANT
Employer: USF ALLIANCE
Height: 6'01
Eye color: Brown
Hair color: Black
Additional remarks: FORMER HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY COMMISSIONER

Name: SHARPE, MARK STEPHEN
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 113 GLEN AV S
Phone numbers
Cellular: (813) 873-8746
Cellular: (813) 390-5092
Linkage factors
16. Subject # 16 - SUAREZ, MICHAEL ANDREW

For: 4602
Page 199 of 1954

Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 1304 PLYMOUTH ST W
Phone Numbers
Business: (813) 274-7072
Cellular: (813) 223-4130
Particulars
Employer: HART /CITY TAMPA COUNCILMAN 1201 E. SEVENTH AVE
Height: 5'11
Eye color: Brown
Additional remarks: CITY OF TAMPA EMPLOYEE/HART DIRECTOR

Name: SUAREZ, MICHAEL ANDREW
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 1304 PLYMOUTH ST W
Phone numbers
Business: (813) 274-7072
Cellular: (813) 223-4130
17. Subject # 17 - MERRILL, MICHAEL STEPHEN

Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 3406 HOLLYHOCK WY
Phone Numbers
Email: MERRILLM@HILLSBOROUGHCOUNTY.ORG
For: 4602
Page 200 of 1954

Particulars
Place of birth: Wisconsin
Occupation: ADMINISTRATOR
Height: 6'00
Eye color: Blue
Hair style: Straight, Receding, Short
Facial hair color: Gray or Partially Gray
Facial hair style: Full Beard, Mustache
Additional remarks: HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR

Name: MERRILL, MICHAEL STEPHEN
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 3406 HOLLYHOCK WY
Phone numbers
Linkage factors
18. Subject # 18 - WILLIAMS, MICHAEL JAMES

Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 2414 VALRICO FOREST DR
Phone Numbers
Cellular: (813) 681-9778
Particulars
Occupation: PUBLIC WORKS
For: 4602
Page 201 of 1954


Height: 6'02
Disability: No
Eye color: Brown
Hair color: Brown
Additional remarks: COUNTY ENGINEER / DIRECTOR OF TRANSPO PLANNING

Name: WILLIAMS, MICHAEL JAMES
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 2414 VALRICO FOREST DR
Phone numbers
Cellular: (813) 681-9778
Linkage factors
19. Subject # 19 - LOTT, RICK ALLEN

Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 3200 POLO PL
Particulars
Occupation: MAYOR
Employer: PLANT CITY 302 REYNOLDS ST W
Height: 6'01
Eye color: Blue
Hair color: Brown
For: 4602
Page 202 of 1954

Additional remarks: MAYOR OF PLANT CITY

Name: LOTT, RICK ALLEN
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 3200 POLO PL
Linkage factors
20. Subject # 20 - MURMAN, SANDRA LOUISE

Sex: FEMALE
Race: WHITE
Date of birth: Aug-09-1950
Address: 410 BLANCA AV
Phone Numbers
Cellular: (813) 253-2522
Email: MURMANS@HILLSBOROUGHCOUNTY.ORG
Particulars
Height: 5'05
Disability: No
Eye color: Blue

Name: MURMAN, SANDRA LOUISE
Sex: FEMALE
Race: WHITE
For: 4602
Page 203 of 1954


Address: 410 BLANCA AV
Phone numbers
Cellular: (813) 253-2522
Linkage factors
21. Subject # 21 - STROMER, SCOTT PAUL

Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 13512 PLANTATION LAKE CR
Municipality: HUDSON , Florida 34669Phone Numbers
Cellular: (727) 856-1464
Particulars
Place of birth: Nebraska
Employer: PROCUREMENT SERVICES HILLS CO 601 KENNEDY BL E
Height: 5'11
Eye color: Blue
Hair color: Brown
Hair style: Straight, Receding, Short
Additional remarks: DIRECTOR OF PROCUREMENT SERVICES

Name: STROMER, SCOTT PAUL
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 13512 PLANTATION LAKE CR
Municipality: HUDSON , Florida 34669Phone numbers
Cellular: (727) 856-1464
Linkage factors
For: 4602
Page 204 of 1954

22. Subject # 22 - WHITE, STACY RYAN

Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 1706 HARMONY GROVE TL
Phone Numbers
Home: (813) 240-5021
Business: (813) 633-9695
Email: WHITES@HILLSBOROUGHCOUNTY.ORG
Particulars
Marital status: Married
Height: 5'09
Eye color: Brown
Hair color: Brown

Name: WHITE, STACY RYAN
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 1706 HARMONY GROVE TL
Phone numbers
Home: (813) 240-5021
Business: (813) 633-9695
Linkage factors
23. Subject # 23 - CRIST, VICTOR DONALD
For: 4602
Page 205 of 1954


Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Date of birth: Jun-21-1957
Address: 7126 WAREHAM DR
Phone Numbers
Business: (813) 910-8206
Cellular: (813) 310-7315
Email: CRISTV@HILLSBOROUGHCOUNTY.ORG
Particulars
Place of birth: Louisiana
Height: 6'02
Hair color: Brown
Hair style: Straight, Bald, Receding, Short
Additional remarks: HILLBOROUGH COUNTY COMMISSIONER DISTRICT 2

Name: CRIST, VICTOR DONALD
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 7126 WAREHAM DR
Phone numbers
Business: (813) 910-8206
Cellular: (813) 310-7315
Linkage factors
24. Subject # 24 - FLETCHER, CHARLES

Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
For: 4602
Page 206 of 1954


Address: 3412 BEAUMONT ST W
Particulars
Place of birth: Ohio
Occupation: CLC
Height: 5'06
Build: Overweight Complexion: Fair
Hair color: Brown
Additional remarks: HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY CHIEF LEGAL COUNSEL

Name: FLETCHER, CHARLES
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 3412 BEAUMONT ST W
Linkage factors
25. Subject # 25 - HOLLINGSHEAD, JOHN

Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 7410 MINT JULEP DR
Municipality: RIVERVIEW , Florida 33578
Particulars
Place of birth: New Jersey
Employer: HILLS COUNTY PROCUREMENT 25-601 KENNEDY BL E
For: 4602
Page 207 of 1954


Name: HOLLINGSHEAD, JOHN
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 7410 MINT JULEP DR
Municipality: RIVERVIEW , Florida 33578
Linkage factors
26. Subject # 26 - FESLER, JOHN THOMAS

Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 19316 PIER POINT CT
Phone Numbers
Home: (813) 949-3592
Email: FESLERJ@HILLSBOROUGHCOUNTY.ORG
Particulars
Place of birth: Alabama
Employer: HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY 601 KENNEDY BL
Height: 5'10
Disability: No
Build: Pot Belly Complexion: Fair
Eye color: Brown
Hair color: Brown
Additional remarks: DIRECTOR OF BUDGET MANAGEMENT HILLS COUNTY

Name: FESLER, JOHN THOMAS
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
For: 4602
Page 208 of 1954


Address: 19316 PIER POINT CT
Phone numbers
Home: (813) 949-3592
Linkage factors
27. Subject # 27 - BETZ, LOUIS GEORGE JR

Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Date of birth: Mar-29-1963
Address: 13712 CHESTERSALL DR
Phone Numbers
Cellular: (813) 833-1573
Particulars
Occupation: LOBBYIST
Employer: VARIOUS
Height: 5'11
Disability: No
Eye color: Brown
Hair color: Brown
Additional remarks: EXECUTIVE/LEGISLATIVE LOBBYIST

Name: BETZ, LOUIS GEORGE JR
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Date of birth: Mar-29-1963
Address: 13712 CHESTERSALL DR
Phone numbers
For: 4602
Page 209 of 1954

Cellular: (813) 833-1573
28. Subject # 28 - RASHID, SAMAD SULTAN

Sex: MALE
Race: UNKNOWN
Address: 3621 SUGARLOAF LN
Phone Numbers
Home: (813) 689-9562
Particulars
Employer: HOLTEC USA CORP 2802 SYDNEY RD PLANT CITY FL

Name: RASHID, SAMAD SULTAN
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 3621 SUGARLOAF LN
Phone numbers
Home: (813) 689-9562
29. Subject # 29 - CALVERT, SHARON

Sex: FEMALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 505 CULLEN CT
Phone Numbers
Home: (813) 969-0436
Particulars
Occupation: PRESIDENT
Employer: TAMPA TEA PARTY INC 505 CULLEN CT LUTZ FL
Height: 5'05
Complexion: Fair
Eye color: Blue Lens type: Glasses
For: 4602
Page 210 of 1954


Name: CALVERT, SHARON
Sex: FEMALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 505 CULLEN CT
Phone numbers
Home: (813) 969-0436
30. Subject # 30 - DRAPP, JAMES EDWARD

Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 2801 PEMBERTON CREEK DR Apartment: D
Municipality: SEFFNER , Florida 33584
Phone Numbers
Home: (813) 684-4825
Particulars
Employer: HNTB CORP
Height: 6'05
Eye color: Blue
Hair color: Brown

Name: DRAPP, JAMES EDWARD
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 2801 PEMBERTON CREEK DR Apartment: D
Municipality: SEFFNER , Florida 33584
Phone numbers
Home: (813) 684-4825
31. Subject # 31 - RYAN, MATTHEW DAVID

For: 4602
Page 211 of 1954

Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 561 MADEIRA AV
Phone Numbers
Business: (813) 813-2822
Particulars
Place of birth: Virginia
Employer: HDR CONSTRUCTION CONTROL CORP 5426 BAY CENTER DR STE 400
Height: 6'02
Complexion: Fair
Eye color: Blue
Hair color: Brown

Name: RYAN, MATTHEW DAVID
Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 561 MADEIRA AV
Phone numbers
Business: (813) 813-2822
32. Subject # 32 - WALTON, GEORGE

Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
Phone Numbers
Business: (212) 695-4279
Particulars
Occupation: SENIOR VP
Employer: PARSONS BRINCKERHOFF 1 PENN PLZ NEW YORK CITY NY
Linkage factors
Resident status : Non-Resident
Age range : Unknown
33. Subject # 33 - CASKEY, PEGGY ANN

For: 4602
Page 212 of 1954

Sex: FEMALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 13494 COOPER RD
Municipality: SPRING HILL , Florida 34609Phone Numbers
Home: (813) 683-6759
Cellular: (813) 683-6759
Particulars
Place of birth: Wisconsin
Occupation: CPA
Employer: HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY
Height: 5'05
Complexion: Fair
Lens type: Glasses
Hair color: Brown
Hair style: Medium (Shoulder Length)

Name: CASKEY, PEGGY ANN
Sex: FEMALE
Race: WHITE
Address: 13494 COOPER RD
Municipality: SPRING HILL , Florida 34609Phone numbers
Home: (813) 683-6759
Cellular: (813) 683-6759
34. Subject # 34 - COLEMAN, MICHAEL

Sex: MALE
Race: WHITE
, Florida
Phone Numbers
Business: (813) 636-2643
Particulars
Employer: RS&H
Linkage factors
Resident status : Unknown
Age range : Unknown
Related Business(es)
For: 4602
Page 213 of 1954

1. Involved # 1 - THE LEYTHAM GROUP

Address: 518 TAMPA ST N Apartment: 310
Phone number: (813) 223-5951
Type: Other
Particulars
Security: NO
Contact Name
Contact # 1: BETH LEYTHAM
Affiliation
PRESIDENT
Phone Numbers
(813) 245-1522
Linkage factors
2. Involved # 2 - PARSONS BRINCKERHOFF (PB)

Address: 2202 WEST SHORE BL N Apartment: 300
Phone number: (813) 520-4444
Type: Contractors Premises, Companies, Firms
Linkage factors
3. Involved # 3 - HNTB
Address: 201 FRANKLIN ST N Apartment: 1000
Place: UNIVERSITY CLUB OF TAMPA
Phone number: (813) 402-4150
4. Involved # 4 - HDR, INC

Address: 5426 BAY CENTER DR
Phone number: (813) 282-2300
Particulars
Security: NO
Contact Name
Contact # 1: MATT RYAN
Affiliation
Phone Numbers
(704) 756-0972
Linkage factors
5. Involved # 5 - RS&H
Address: 1715 WEST SHORE BL N Apartment: 500
For: 4602
Page 214 of 1954

Phone number: (813) 289-5550

For: 4602
Page 215 of 1954


Follow Up Report # HS 1
Assignment Information
Assigned to: 222593 - Portalatin, Samuel V Rank: Patrol Deputy
Capacity: Other Follow Up Org unit: Professional Standards Section PST00
Assigned on: Sep-22-2015 (Tue.) 1556 by: 222593 - Portalatin, Samuel V
Report due on: Mar-20-2016 (Sun.)
Submission Information
Submitted on: Jan-28-2016 (Thu.) 1443
Checked by: 5603 - Hollis, Charles P
Approved on: Jan-28-2016 (Thu.) by: 5603 - Hollis, Charles P
Follow Up Conclusion
Follow Up concluded: YES
For: 4602
Page 216 of 1954



Attachment Description: MICHAEL MERRILL'S LETTER TO SHERIFF GEE
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 217 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 218 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 219 of 1954



Attachment Description: ROBERT CLIFFORD INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:
For: 4602

2015-691857
Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222593 interview Bob Clifford
CPL. HOLLIS:
Today is Thursday, December 17, 2015. It's 1004 a.m. This is Corporal
Charles Hollis, ABN 5603. This interview being conducted today is in
reference to the Go Hillsborough investigation; 15-691857. Currently
downtown at the Bank of America building on the 19th floor. Also present
for this interview....
DET. CLARK:
DET. PORTALATIN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
And gentlemen?
MR. KEHOE:
And I'm Gregory Kehoe on behalf of Parsons Brinckerhoff and Mr. Clifford.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Bob Clifford, Parsons Brinckerhoff.
MR. VANAMAN:
I'm David Vanaman assistant general counsel of

Parsons Brinckerhoff.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. And Mr. Clifford, you're aware our conversation is being
recorded?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CLIFFORD:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. So just a way of introduction, you work for Parsons

Brinckerhoff?
MR. CLIFFORD:
That's correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And what's your title?
Page 220 of 1954


SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
Re: Interview of Bob Clifford
MR. CLIFFORD:
I'm area manager.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And what are some of your responsibilities?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Well, we're broken into... our various offices have what they call a
business leader for that office and that's what my role is withing the Tampa
office for the west coast of Florida and some other statewide Florida
responsibilities for our activities.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And some of the things, as far as I understand, Parsons

Brinckerhoff is an engineering firm?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Primarily in our office, it's all transportation.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
So it's transportation, engineering, planning, we provide construction

services, inspection services of construction projects and such out of our
office.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And some of the work that you do deals with county, city and private
businesses?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Most... in our office, we don't. We do very, very little on the private side. It's
mostly public sector and it's... our biggest client is the Florida Department
of Transportation. And then we do some municipal and county work.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And your primary area is the Tampa Bay Area?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Tampa Bay and kind of west coast of Florida.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Some stuff up into the panhandle, but primarily the Tampa Bay region
would be kind of the focus.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. When did you join Parsons?
-2-
For: 4602
Page 221 of 1954


SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. CLIFFORD:
I started in... end of June, I want to say it was the 28th of... what is this?
This is '15. '14 of last year.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And where were you prior to...?
MR. CLIFFORD:
I was with the Tampa Bay Area Regional Transportation Authority; that's a
regional transit... hence the name.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And also known as TBARTA.
MR. CLIFFORD:
TBARTA. Correct. Correct. It's TBARTA. I was the executive director of

TBARTA.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And how long did you work there?
MR. CLIFFORD:
I was there for 5 and a half years. I was the original executive director of
them from when they were created.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Okay. And then prior to that?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Prior to that, I worked for FDOT here in the Tampa Bay area for about 12
years.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And what were your I guess duties?
MR. CLIFFORD:
In that arena, I was the... what they called the intermodal systems
development manager. I was responsible for all of the planning, public
government relations type activities, environmental activities for the district
office on all the different various projects and all the different types of
modes from roads to airports to transit to seaports. You name the mode,
our office was responsible for it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And in working with TBARTA for the 5 years, you were able to...
were you able to develop relationships with county, city if you were
working in that environment, that arena?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. No. For my days at FDOT, you know, I knew all of
the various players from both the staff and the elected side of it and then
the same thing with TBARTA it was just a continuation of that work and
actually the TBARTA board has 16 board members. The FDOT secretary
is ex officio, that's one, and then there's 15 elected board members. It's
-3-
For: 4602
Page 222 of 1954


SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
the mayors of the cities of St. Pete and Tampa and a rotating one between
Manatee and Sarasota, it's one county commission member from each of
our 7 counties within the region, and there were some gubernatorial
appointees also; there were 4 gubernatorial appointees as part of that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So the last little bit while you were at TBARTA, who was the county
commissioner that was on the board?
MR. CLIFFORD:
The last one was Sandy Murman.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Sandy. She had just been there I want to say less than probably a half a
year. Previous to that, the only other one they had had for the years
previous to that was Ken Hagan.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Ken Hagan. Okay. And in that environment, you all would just... would you
all discuss transportation needs for that entire region?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Yeah. The whole region.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And where would the funding come from?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Well, for our role was kind of interesting scenario. Our role was... we were
set up to be able to all sorts of things from plan it to build it and given no
revenue source to do that with. So it really turned into more of just a
planning and coordinating entity, you know, of all the different projects and
activities around the region. It really wasn't any really good one. You know,
it's the issue of you've got a roadway that goes from one county to the
other and to the county line. It's 6 lanes on one and two on the other.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
MR. CLIFFORD:
And how do you fix that? You know, that kind of....
MR. VANAMAN:
By when you say our role, you're talking about

TBARTA.
MR. CLIFFORD:
TBARTA. I'm sorry. That was my role with TBARTA.

Yes. And so that was really what it was more focused on was identifying
and advocating for regional priorities and the real push of the entity was
there was this feeling amongst the state legislature and I don't know if that
-4-
For: 4602
Page 223 of 1954


SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
was why TBARTA was created in frankly the local business community
that this region was on transportation projects, thinking very regionally.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Because everybody wanted mine and not thinking more regionally, so that
was the for that entity to be the one to push kind of the high profile big
regional project. A great example is that just got funding was out at Tampa
International Airport, the people mover that they're building now.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. CLIFFORD:
That was one of their, one of TBARTA's highest priorities.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
That and the Howard Franklin bridge replacement, which is also... is

coming up in 18/19, but it was funded during that time period and put in
the program, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Very good. In 2010, if you aware. I mean you're part of TBARTA at
the time, there was a referendum attempt...
MR. CLIFFORD:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Here in Hillsborough County. Were you all part of that?
MR. CLIFFORD:
We were part of it from the perspective of, you know, we were kind of that
regional entity. We didn't have an active role in it because it was within
one county, so ours was really more on the perphery of, you know, getting
all the other counties and communities around the region to support that
effort was the the thought process was somebody has to be first. You
know, and if they're successful then, you know, Pinellas can go and and
then Pasco can go and so forth and so on.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But ultimately, that failed.
MR. CLIFFORD:
That failed. Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Were there lessons learned that TBARTA had a role in?
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MR. CLIFFORD:
Well, I mean not lessons learned that we had a direct role in, but certainly
lessons learned about the issue of, you know, there was a lot of confusion.
There was also at the same time a high speed rail, you know, and being
able to clearly articulate differences of what the projects are. Big thing
learned was Hillsborough's campaign, the private campaign was... I guess
the way I would say it is rightfully so locally focused, but people... it also
lost touch of... but in the future it's going to connect to Pinellas. It's going
to connect to Pasco and that kind of got lost. That was one thing we saw it
at TBARTA at the time was, you know, we got to make sure people
understand there's a future beyond this where it's going to continue to
grow and like a dozen every other community around the country.
CPL. HOLLIS:
In 2013, that's when the PL... well, what's known now I guess as the PLG,
the TED Group was formed. Did you have any involvement in that? Any
input in that?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Not specifically. I mean, we attended when I was there and some of my

staff, we attended some of the meetings, but we had no, no role. We
weren't part of any kind of staff group or anything as part of that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Because it was clearly focused on within Hillsborough County.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But somewhat similar to TBARTA in that you all had, you had people from
different areas. County commissioners from different areas; mayors, and
then here. This is more local, 3 mayors, county commissioner, HART.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Correct. I guess the difference I would say in my words would be what

Hillsborough was focused on was more kind of local projects where
TBARTA was focused on big regional projects; the big connecting things.
You know, we need to connect the and expand the interstate amongst all
of the areas. We need what we call more commuter rail connections. Not
light rail or local rail. More.... So that was.... I think it was more just the
difference or distinguishing difference to me is what the focus was;
regional versus local.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Would TBARTA then.... If this referendum would be approved, would

TBARTA be part of that? Be involved in any of that?
MR. CLIFFORD:
My guess.... I'm not there anymore, but my guess would be... or my

speculation would be... would be more on the perphery in a supportive
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role of, you know, transportation, the system. You need the local, you
need the regional, you know, you need the national, so you know, one
parts a part... one part of the system supports the other, but not in a kind
of direct leadership or a role that I see there for that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So in 2014, how did you hear that Parsons was hiring or....
MR. CLIFFORD:
Oh, how did I get hired by PB? George Walton, who I've known, you know,
for I'm going to say be 8 or 9 years before that as a consultant when I was
started with FDOT. When I was at... excuse me, when I was at FDOT he
moved down I guess from... I'm not sure where he moved from. Maryland,
I think, down to Florida to start working in the PB office in Florida and so
he was coming to us to you know, you know, what work do we have. You
know, and we short listed him a couple times when I was at the
department and they won a few jobs. They did a good job and we got
along and so we knew each other through that and he just happened to
come to me and you know, which happens from time to time. Other folks
will do the same and you know would you be interested in doing that and
you know, after I said no like the first several times and then finally he was
very persistent and I said alright, I'll talk to you. You know, and I'll talk to
you and then one thing led to another and said we've got this role I'd love
for you to fill it and it sounded intriguing and interesting to me, so I took it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
How did he describe the role?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Really, as, you know, it was the area manager for this office. Kind of the
business unit leader for the office and you know, looking at, you know,
continuing the success they had and you know, look at growing, you know,
the business within the area.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Some of the things that you're doing now were you doing similar
things at TBARTA?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Well, the difference is, I guess the difference is I went from at TBARTA I
was more of the client where, you know, we were, we were planning work
and looking at things, but I was the client side of it. Now, still doing the
same thing in terms of planning, projects, and planning work, but now
we're the consultant to the client. Because the clients don't have, you
know, for example at TBARTA we have a staff of 8 people and so we don't
have the capability or the expertise to actually... you know, or experience
frankly, you know, to do the work to the level of detail that you're looking
for for these types of projects.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So you saw an opportunity and a challenge...
MR. CLIFFORD:
Mm-hmm. And I've been... I started my career as a consultant.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
So I'd been a consultant for 8 years before I went to FDOT. So I knew the
business, you know, from both sides.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So in coming to Parsons, what was going on at TBARTA at the

time? Were there any particular projects you were working on?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Nothing, you know, nothing specifically. It was actually a fairly quiet time.
The big real effort we were engaged in was... I kind of alluded to a minute
ago, was that effort of TBARTA coming out for the first time with... and for
the region coming out for the first time of this is what the region agrees are
our top 5 priorities. Howard Franklin bridge was one. The airport people
mover was another and then, you know, carrying that message to the
legislature and to FDOT who are the funders of it...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Was really our biggest effort at the time was that approach of we have to
be consistent and there can only be, you know, one number one priority
and that's why we only had 5, not 105 that everybody would usually see.
So....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Was Parsons Brinckerhoff involved in any projects at the time with

TBARTA?
MR. CLIFFORD:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So then you're brought on and some emails I think kind of first,
where we kind of first see some communication with Beth Leytham. So
when did you first meet her?
MR. CLIFFORD:
I'm going to say July of that. You know, I mean I knew who she was. I had
met her probably 12 years ago when she was at the chamber, you know,
just hello at some meeting somewhere. I mean I knew who she was, but
I.... She didn't know me and I didn't know her and so yeah, so I'm going to
say July. We had lunch.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Who kind of gave you, hey, you should probably reach out to Beth
or...?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Well, George told me about....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
You know, told me about her and then said, you know, part of your role is,
you know, you'll, you know, engage many different folks and Beth's one of
them. You probably want to get, you know, get with her and find out what's
going and you know, go from there.
CPL. HOLLIS:
How was she introduced to you? Like what was her role at Parsons?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Her role was she was really, you know, the term that was used was she
was an advocate and really, the discussion we all had was she was a
information resource, you know, intelligence of what's happening, what's
going on, you know, in the region. Clearly, you know, had greater abilities
in some parts of the region than in others, but that was really her role.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. We noticed Sharon Calvert had confronted you at some point and
made the accusation, assumption that because you were hired by
Parsons that you're now an insider with the county. Any of that true?
MR. CLIFFORD:
No. Interestingly enough, I... you know, I've known Lucia Garsys for many
years. We worked together when I started... when I was at FDOT even
and you know, when I first came to PB and I was talking to, you know,
nothing to do with Go Hillsborough, just talking to Lucia. Hey, I'm at PB,
you know, and how are we doing? Oh, you guys do, you guys do well and
stuff, but we had a conversation about that, you know, I may not
necessarily be well liked because of my previous experience with TBARTA
and with FDOT, you know, some of that sometimes it's a..., you know, one
agency to another is well, you want to do something and you know and
want you to do that and vice versa and so, you know, she goes nothing
personal it's just, you know, Bob it goes with the territory. I wasn't too
concerned about it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But some of the things she was saying from what I remember is,
you know, here you're going to Parsons. Now they're getting this big deal
and you're the person that kind of made the right calls and that sort of
thing.
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MR. CLIFFORD:
Yeah. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And we'll get to those.
MR. CLIFFORD:
When you go... and just to clarify were on Sharon Calvert.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. CLIFFORD:
You go back in history, she used to tear me up when I was at TBARTA too,
so I mean, you know, I mean the constant, you know, look once a week.
Alright, what did she write about me in her blog this week? You know what
I mean.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No problem. So the first email basically your introduction to Beth; hey, the
new guy at PB and that sort of thing and this one here, when she writes to
you and she sees Mr. Walton, just kind of bringing you up to speed on
what they had been doing. And in looking at her contract that she had
signed at the time, had you had a chance to see what kind of...?
MR. CLIFFORD:
I mean I've seen the sub, but at the time not... I haven't looked at it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So basically she's a paid consultant based on the contract and there's

been a lot of accusations about her... is she a lobbyist is she not. Would
you consider her a lobbyist for Parsons?
MR. CLIFFORD:
No. No, I wouldn't because what she was providing was information and
intelligence. We were never asking her to help us win a job or get votes or
do any of those things. That wasn't what it was. I look it as
communication, information, and intelligence of what's going on? You
know, where are we going? You know, what are you hearing? What am I
hearing? You know, so I've got close relationships with folks at FDOT, so
what are they saying, you know, about all of this? It's kind of an
information exchange part of it. That's how I always looked at it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And I understand part of the things she's doing is basically getting
Parsons out there amongst the Tampa Bay region, you know, mainly with
elected officials.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Out in the region. We had a long conversation about, you know, we want
to be, we like to be civically engaged. We live here, too. You know, and so
part of it was that, you know, we had a lot of conversation about how do
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we get, you know, our own staff members out and about. What are the
right... you know, we've got a lot of you know, young professionals. How
do we get them involved and engaged? What are the groups they need to
be part of you know within the community to be engaged and you know
under the same guise of we want to be interested, but we also want to
know what's happening, what's going on.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did she... when you first met with her and went over some things,
did she appear qualified to handle what she was tasked to do?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And some of the ways that she would meet people in the Tampa Bay
region, at lunches and dinners and things, did you attend any of those with
her?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Nope. Never.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And Mr. Walton?
MR. CLIFFORD:
I don't know that George did or didn't. I'm not sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And even just even communications with county commissioners, did
you...?
MR. CLIFFORD:
No. I never communicated through her with them. I mean, the reality is
because of my other roles I can communicate with them directly.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. CLIFFORD:
They knew me, you know, I knew them. They had my phone number. I had
their phone number. You know, if we needed, you know, didn't really see
the need much, you know, but you know, I have some of the same
contacts if you will.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. Sure. Just in a different, I guess, arena based on what you used to
do.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And leading up to the August 12th meeting that the PLG, the TED Group
had, it appears to us, just in looking at the transcript of the meeting, that
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this wasn't the first discussion they had about hiring an outside firm. There
was some discussions kind of working through.... It wasn't a surprise I'll
say. Did you all have any... because Beth is so involved, was there any
insight like, hey, this might move in a direction that they'll looking at a
private firm to help with this?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Not specifically. I think one of the... I think we all were a little.... And I say
we, you know, kind of meaning the industry even, where are they going?
You know, they had spent a year and a half kind of on their own. Didn't
have any consultants to put together what they were doing and nobody
was really sure where it was headed and you know, and they had talked
previously about do we need consultants? Do we need...? Oh, no. I think
we can handle it. We don't.... And then it was well, maybe we do. So it
was really about what's happening here? You know, what are you..you
know...Beth what are you hearing...That's the way you hear them...What
do you see? And I'm, you know, sitting there. I don't really know what
they're going to do. Because I do think there's an email I think we pulled...
or I was like well, I think I figured out what Merrill was.... That was my.... I
don't know what he's doing. You know, where are we going? Because you
know, my knowledge in communication and intelligence was, you know,
FDOTs a big player here and he isn't talking to them. You know, and I think
TBARTA is not in there either and it's going to be really hard to do things
on your own without engaging other people, you know, kind of key
players. So it was really, I just wasn't really sure what was happening.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Were you making any phone calls to anybody on the board to try
to...?
MR. CLIFFORD:
No. Mm-hmm. I was trying to lay.... I was brand new and I don't want to
say lay low because I don't think that right, I had 85 things going on at
once of new things.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. CLIFFORD:
All our thousand systems we have to work with and I'm like what am I
supposed to do now and you know, that was... I was frankly pretty
preoccupied.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And just some other emails. Looks like she's sending you links to
different things just trying to get you up to speed on everything going on.
And then ultimately, the meeting occurs and they give Mike Merrill some
direction. And then just noticed some emails where there's some
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discussion that you all may have chance at assisting in this project. How
did you all come to know that?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Well, I think from the emails would be through Beth.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you know who she was contacting?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Do no.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You do not. Okay. Do you know who she had close relationships with?
MR. CLIFFORD:
I would tell you quite a few people from both business to elected to you
know, she knows all the members of the board, she knows the mayor, she
knows all these folks, so you know I think it's pretty good sizable group.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure, but isn't that I guess one of her main roles is to, I mean, make those
relationships with members in the Tampa Bay region?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Sure. Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
On behalf of Parsons?
MR. CLIFFORD:
I don't know if it's make the relationship as much as, you know, I kind of
look it as raise the profile, you know, and make us be aware of what's
happening, what's going on. You know, I don't need anybody to, you know,
introduce me to somebody. I can introduce myself.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. CLIFFORD:
You know, but it's more about, you know, hey, are these people, you know,
our business is transportation. Are they supporters of transportation or not
supporters of transportation? You know, is this something we'd be
interested... you know, somebody we'd be, you know, interested in having
a discussion or a meeting or not having a discussion or meeting?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. And like you said, she is the information getter. She's out there and
using her relationships to gather that information.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You all have some more conversation. Now she... this email here is
August the 20th where she said... she sent you both an engagement
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outline involving transportation. That might be what you have right there,
but it's the same outline she actually sent to Commissioner Murman on
the day of that August 12th meeting. Do you know who told her to put that
together?
MR. CLIFFORD:
I do not.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And she said she wouldn't know who actually got the call from the
county. Did you get the call?
MR. CLIFFORD:
I did not. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
But George I believe did.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you know... did you ever work with John Lyons or Mike
Williams?
MR. CLIFFORD:
I had worked with Mike Williams before. He had been in FDOT also.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
So I knew Mike. We didn't work close because we were actually in

different districts. He was over in Bartow. I was in Tampa. But we knew
each other and worked around each other. I knew who John was, but I
had never worked with him before and.... Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Don't know that I can add anything more to that. I knew who he was.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. No. What about Larry Scully? Did you know him?
MR. CLIFFORD:
I didn't know him at all.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright. Is that normal to use an outside person to help in a decision

making process?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Sometimes it is. It kind of depends. I mean we... when I... again we, not
my PB. When I was FDOT and at TBARTA, depending upon what the
projects were, we had other entities, outside entities assist us, you know,
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in the what I call the selection process. You know, whether it... depending
on whatever it was whether it was a submittal or a interview or you know,
whatever it may be. Depending on what it was, if it was something was
frankly something they were engaged in or their expertise, we'd reach out
to other folks.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Were you aware of who was making the decision?
MR. CLIFFORD:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. When did you find out who was kind of part of the decision making?
MR. CLIFFORD:
I'm not going to.... I don't know that I found out till months later.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, okay. Just looking at some emails that were sent. It looks like when
Mr. Walton had kind of reached out to everybody about hey, we might be
getting involved in this and then you forwarded what you submitted
ultimately as Parsons to Larry Scully that you forwarded that to Beth
Leytham.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Mm-hmm. Information.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Information.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Keep her in the loop.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And then she responded who is the selection committee and you
responded didn't get a clear answer, so I'm not sure. Sounded like Merrill,
Lyons, Williams would advise input from Scully.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Yeah. We don't know when we... our conversation.... So George gets a

call from Scully. We actually then said can we have another follow-up call
with you? We did it was like at 5:00 or 5:30 that night we had a call with
them with myself, George, and some other folks in our office. We're on the
call just asking questions about what do you want? What's the.... You
know, where you going? You want a submittal. We need some, you know,
we some direction of what you're looking for us to submit. So we had that
conversation and we never got a clear answer of, you know, what... you
know, what we were providing in terms of then who was going to be, you
know, making a selection. It was like we're looking for some help. We've
reached out other firms. You know, we need you to provide this
information.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Were there any preparations leading up to the submittal of the package or

just when you found out?
MR. CLIFFORD:
No. It was... it was a fire drill.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
No. It was an absolute fire drill because it was due like a day or a day and
a half. I mean I think we had a full day. It was due the following day at
noon. I think we sent it at like 11:50 something. So....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, but when you had said it appeared Beth kind of had that information
that hey, there may be an opportunity for Parsons. George sends that
information out. So were there preparations not being made to kind of get
some kind of package together?
MR. CLIFFORD:
No. There weren't and really it was more of you know between, you know,
myself. I was at the PLG meeting, you know, heard that discussion. You
know, hearing back from Beth what she's hearing from the county. There
was... and then talking to Larry Scully whom we ultimately talked to Larry
Scully, but even before then, there was still quite a bit of uncertainty about
what is it they're going to do? And even after we talked to Larry Scully it
was still where are we going here? You know, we... you're kind of asking
for a referendum support, help, but what does that mean? You know,
what... we don't do... we're not political operatives in terms of, you know,
that run campaigns or do that. We're engineers. So what do you... you
know, what do you want us to do?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Was really that... our thought process and so we looked at it. It didn't make
a lot of sense to spend much time on referendums when we were unsure
of where it was going.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So the message wasn't very clear initially.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You're shaking your head no. Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Yes. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yes.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
No problem. But anyway, back to this, so you mentioned it sounded like

Merrill, Lyons, Williams with advice from Scully, so who did you get that
information from?
MR. CLIFFORD:
The only person we talked to was Scully.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So did he mention who would have been making the...?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Well, I'm going to... and I don't recall the actual discussion.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
MR. CLIFFORD:
I'm sure we asked. And you know, you know I know I do remember him
saying I'm going to be advising them. Who them was, you know, was we
were unsure. We did know, because George actually received the call....
No. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I believe we received this call from Scully. George
can clarify that for sure. I reached out to friends of mine at other firms.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Did you guys get...? Because we... they told us they were reaching out to
other firms, but not who.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
So we were like well, so I'm calling friends of mine.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Who were you calling?
MR. CLIFFORD:
A guy named Steve Bordeau who worked at HNTB.
CPL. HOLLIS:
HNTB?
MR. CLIFFORD:
You know, and I was like do you... did you...? He goes yeah. He goes I
think they heard something, we heard something and he goes we don't
want they want. You know, and I go kind of feel the same place and I
remember him telling... as I recall, him telling me I think Mike Williams
called Beth.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MR. CLIFFORD:
So you know, there's that connection of....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. CLIFFORD:
But it was just such a... I think I used the word earlier, I think fire drill was a
good, you know, a good description of it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So it seemed like there was a rush?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Oh, there was definitely a rush. They were like you've got a couple days to
get us, you know, your experience and who would be, you know, and
looking at national experience and who, you know, you could have work
on this somewhat undefined project.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You mentioned HNTB, was there anybody else you reached out to?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Those were... that was the one I specifically reached out to.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did you know anybody at HDR?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Oh, yeah. I know people at HDR.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And RS&H?
MR. CLIFFORD:
I know people there too.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But you didn't reach out to anyone...
MR. CLIFFORD:
I'm closer to Steve, so I mean..so... He and I would have that kind of

conversation, you know, about what's going on?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you know if Mr. Walton got a phone call from John Lyons
initially?
MR. CLIFFORD:
I don't know. I don't recall that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
I thought it was Scully. I just remember him coming to me and going hey, I
just got a call that we need to get some folks going you know within.... You
got to call so and so's phone and then we're going to call him back at like
5:00 to figure out what's going on.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Mm-hmm. Did you have a relationship with Mike Merrill?
MR. CLIFFORD:
No. I mean I knew him. We knew each other. I knew him from TBARTA.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
You know, so we certainly knew that, but I also knew, you know, going to
that TBARTA part, TBARTA and Hillsborough County had a little, you
know, rub there, so I was, you know, sensitive to that, so I didn't, you know
with.... I'd engage Mike when we needed to, but not you know beyond
that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
And that was more just... it's the power over who gets to decide what the
priorities are and stuff.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. Now the response from Beth is Lucia too. The minute you hear will
you text me? Is she... I mean obviously that'd be a question for her too,
but did you reach out to Lucia because you mentioned you had a
relationship with her.
MR. CLIFFORD:
No. I did not reach out to her.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. To find out what the process might be? Anything like that?
MR. CLIFFORD:
I didn't talk to anybody.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, you didn't talk....
MR. CLIFFORD:
I didn't talk to anybody from the county or anybody.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Alright. Were you aware if Lucia was involved in the decision
making?
MR. CLIFFORD:
No. I didn't. Wasn't sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Alright. And then an email dated the 26th of August 2014, there's
some back and forth. Hey, any word on what's going on. It looked like Kurt
Krauss reached out to you.
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MR. CLIFFORD:
Yeah, he works in our... he works for us. He works.... And he's was one of
the guys that helped me put the proposal together.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Very good.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Four pager.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Was that... you know a lot of the work that you did, that proposal that was
sent?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Yes. He and I, Kurt. George had me get with Kurt. He knew, he's a
national guy. He does some national stuff for us and kind of between the
two of us.... He knew that... he knew.... I was... been there a month.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. CLIFFORD:
You know, so we didn't.... Or two months I guess by that point. I didn't

even know what some of our experience and capabilities were, so who do
I go to? Who can fill in the blanks here. So it was Kurt who helped with
that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Very good. So he's asking, you know, just curious. You heard anything and
you said nothing. Word is it's between us and HNTB. However, no one at
HNTB at least locally has heard anything. They weren't even aware of
this. Very sketchy. So just wanted you to put some context to that.
MR. CLIFFORD:
So the context was talking with HNTB is like yeah, we haven't heard
anything and sketchy, the sketchy part to me was I'm not buying that from
HNTB.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I got you. That's just little speak...
MR. CLIFFORD:
Now, now we're in competition.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. CLIFFORD:
We both want a job, so you know. I'm not going to tell you everything I
know, you know, when you have that conversation.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Very good. So when you say word is it's between us and HNTB, where'd
you hear that from?
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MR. CLIFFORD:
I'm going to say, you know, I don't recall specifically. I'm going to say it was
probably, it's probably HNTB. You know, they're like well, we're hearing
it's, you know, you and us and... but I don't have a specific recollection of
somebody told me that it was....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did Beth reach out to you and tell you anything?
MR. CLIFFORD:
I don't recall specifically. No. Because I, you know, wouldn't swear to it

because I don't.... But I don't.... I think we were all in the where...because
one of the challenges when we asked the question taking a step back is
there didn't seem to be any... you know, we asked the question when we
decide other than soon, there was no real time table given to us about
when we'd hear anything.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Just a deadline to get this paperwork into us.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Get it in and we need to do this soon. Okay. You know, and as consultants
you learn you're very responsive to the client's needs or potential client's
needs, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. And then obviously you all are chosen or get the phone call, the
word later on that day on the 26th and then what... from there, when do
you first meet with the county?
MR. CLIFFORD:
I want to say we met with them a couple days later and initially I was going
and then I didn't go. Again, just sensitive to the... am I okay, you know,
with the county?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Just because of your past?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Because of my past, you know, and just you know, we purposely, you
know, I was on there, but I wasn't leading the effort, you know, for that just
to be sensitive to that issue.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Were you worried about any speculation that because you had been in the
circles you had been with FDOT and TBARTA and now you're here at this
firm that gets this contract...
MR. CLIFFORD:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Were there any worried about that?
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MR. CLIFFORD:
No. My whole, you know, concern if you will was really related to my
previous life with TBARTA and the... what's the word I would use, tenuous
relationship TBARTA had with Hillsborough County.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
You know, and sometimes, you know, a little grating relationship and
TBARTA has, you know, for them to function the vast majority of the
money comes from feds and the state, but they also would ask all the
local counties to have a small contribution and Hillsborough was always
kind of stand offish about them. Well, okay. We'll think about it. You know,
that really was my total thought process on that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So initially you were going and then you took a lesser role. Is
that...?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Well, I didn't go to the meeting. George and another, as I recall, another

staff member in our office, Brian Bollas went to the initial meeting.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
I then went to the second one. I was like yeah, we're okay and you know, I
just, you know, we think just... you know.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Was Beth at any of those meetings; at least the ones you attended?
MR. CLIFFORD:
No. Those initial ones, no. It was me and Brian or George.
CPL. HOLLIS:
When did she start getting involved?
MR. CLIFFORD:
I want to say a few weeks later when we started talking about, alright,
where are we going here? What is this thing? I'm just going to get some
water. It was clear early on.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, yeah, yeah. Yes, sir.
MR. CLIFFORD:
It was clear early on that the county's thoughts on what they needed, we
were kind of unsure and skeptical about was that really where you needed
to go and it started with the kind of the thought process of what we're
hearing from the county was hey, we view this as a, you know, kind of 3 or
4 month effort. We want to be ready in January to go to referendum and
we're like, go to referendum with what? And you know, so it was... it
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started kind of more talking about it with them, about where do we need to
go and then it was like okay. Well, now let's make it February. Well, again
with what? And the more it came to our... you know, it was kind of an
iterate discussion with, you know, with their staff members and us of hey,
we really need to.... You've got a bunch of stuff as a plan. Excuse me. You
have a bunch of stuff. It's not a plan and you've got a nice big wish list and
no way to pay for it and you've not talked to anybody about it. So we're
like that's really what you need to do. You know, you're talking about going
to referendum. You need to go out to the community and have the
discussion with them what are the things that are important to them. You
know, we... if you're talking about... if you ultimately get to some type of
referendum, you know, probably need to know now from a.... Think about
doing things like focus groups and others. What are the key drivers, you
know, from transportation perspective in the community. You may want to
do some poling. You know, all of those kind of things that we started
having that dialog and then when we realized that we're like, it started
going back to what they had said previously about you know getting out to
the community kind of like InVision. That InVision Tampa effort. And you
know, that's where we came to know Beth and working with her on
InVision.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You're talking about from a Parsons Brinckerhoff standpoint?
MR. CLIFFORD:
From a working on a project perspective.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
And we were both subs to AECOM, another consulting firm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. CLIFFORD:
There's 300 of them in the state of Florida. So it was, you know, one of
those, you know sort of like well, that... they mentioned that. it went pretty
well. It was a pretty engaged thing. We really need to bring her in to some
of this conversation and you know, and by the way, she talks to these
folks. Knows what's going on. You know, get us that information, you
know, where are we here? And so that's when we started kind of
collectively all of us; it's her, us, the county and others where are we
going?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
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MR. CLIFFORD:
It's a very... I guess the way I would describe it, it's a very evolutionary
process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. CLIFFORD:
We started here. We didn't up here. You know, we ended up over here is

really where they needed to be.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, you mentioned InVision. Yes, that was brought up in that August 12th
meeting and they wanted somebody that had the experience globally, but
also there was a local flavor as well and so you can see where Beth was
part of that with the local part, but then Parsons with the experience....
MR. CLIFFORD:
Right. But at first, you know, when we... in our proposal, you know, we put
on the folks, our folks that's, you know, we're like you want an engineering
firm. This is what we think you want. This is who can do it for you. And that
first meeting, we sent... I sent, you know, Brian Bollas went and he's our
local, what we call kind of our public involvement person. He's the key
focus of that and you know, and does it and does it well, but it's public
involvement from a say, like, more of like an FDOT type perspective. And
what I mean by that is that's just very process oriented. There's a bunch of
boxes we have to make sure we checked and did it. It's not really public
engagement. You know, it's not... we don't do social media. We don't do
websites. We don't you know really.... There's no Facebook page. Any of
those, we don't do any of that in the public involvement side of things and
as we started, you know, working through this we're like this is really
engagement not involvement. We don't really do engagement. You know,
we do involvement part of it. So that was kind of where I was like alright.
You know, where do we need to be. Who can help us do this and you
know, we did it in InVision. So....
CPL. HOLLIS:
And Beth was the obvious choice for that.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I mean she was already under contract with Parsons on a consultant
basis.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Right. But that wasn't.... Honestly, I didn't really think about it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MR. CLIFFORD:
It was more of..mention InVision. Who knows the area locally. Who, you
know, who could we have do this and you know, who would had run
through a very similar process. It's Beth.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Or if there had been somebody else....
MR. CLIFFORD:
And she's good at it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well....
MR. CLIFFORD:
And she's very good at it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And that was one of my questions earlier, you thought she was qualified
based on your meetings with her for what she was doing with Parsons at
the time and then now forward.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
She's still qualified to do what she's doing. Very good. If these detectives
have any questions for you, is that okay?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
DET. CLARK: Just the way you described.... Detective Trent Clark for the record...Just the way
you described Beth Leytham or the Leytham Group's role initially as an
advocate and intelligence resource. During this time, she was under
contract as a consultant. Would you include that in your, her definition of
her role as also consultant?
MR. CLIFFORD:
I'm not sure I'm following.
DET. CLARK: Okay. She's under contract with PB as a consultant.

MR. CLIFFORD:
Correct.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MR. CLIFFORD:
For the, for the advocacy and the communication and information.
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir.
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MR. CLIFFORD:
Okay.
DET. CLARK:
And just wanted to see if you would include that when you were asked to
describe what she did and you just said she was an advocate and an
intelligence resource and not as a consultant. I didn't think... you just, you
just overlooked that as a definition that she was under contract as a
consultant for PB. That's what her actual legal definition was.
MR. CLIFFORD:
My definition...
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Is a consultant is somebody who works on projects. You know, that's the

world I live in is because you know what we do is you know whether
you're the prime or a subconsultant, it's very project driven. So I just
don't.... The legal definition may be something different, but that's not how
I would necessarily characterize it.
DET. CLARK:
Okay. Because I'm just referring to the contract that

she was actually under and it was a repetitive contract, so she was under
contract with PB so the contract that she was under is not significant
because it wasn't attached to a project?
MR. CLIFFORD:
When you say not significant.
DET. CLARK:
Okay. Could we get the contract.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Yeah. I'm just, I'm just.... I'm not sure I'm quite following.
DET. CLARK:
Have you reviewed her contract?
MR. CLIFFORD:
I've seen it in the past.
DET. CLARK:
Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Not reviewed it recently.
DET. CLARK:
Okay. Page 1, section 1, it's a consultant contract and there's a section

here that says 1.1, the consultant is being engaged of a form each of the
advisory and consultant, consultation services, government relations, and
business positioning services to Parsons Brinckerhoff as set as follow as
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set forth below and then it goes through a list. Could you just look at that
contract because I just wanted to....
MR. CLIFFORD:
Okay. So I would, I would, I would say, my definition of it is it's a contract

for, you know, I'm going on to the top kind of political consultation
agreement that's information, intelligence, you know, what's happening,
going on. How do we position ourselves, you know, in the community and
that's how I always... that's how I view the contract.
DET. CLARK:
Yes. And then basically, it's everything that you described...
MR. CLIFFORD:
Right.
DET. CLARK:
What she was doing as far as her behavior; however, some of the other...
your personal definition of her I just wanted to get the actual definition
consistent with the contract. For example, her role to you is an intelligence
source or an advocate.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Right.
DET. CLARK:
Okay? But at the time her contractual definition is as a consultant.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Okay.
DET. CLARK:
Okay. And that's all I wanted to ask you about.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Okay. Yeah.
DET. CLARK:
To get it clear, concise, and consistent with... the definition is consistent

with her contract.
MR. CLIFFORD:
If I understand you right...
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MR. CLIFFORD:
And I'm not trying to be dense. I'm just... I really not sure I quite
understand, yes. We pay for services and she provided those services.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MR. CLIFFORD:
If the definition is well, is that a consultant. Well, under that scenario, yes. I
just look at it as when I say consultants or subconsultants, I always view it
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in a project perspective because that's how... that's the business we work
in.
DET. CLARK:
Okay. And then I believe either as a subconsultant to PB brought in under

her was Louis Betz. Are you familiar with him?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Mm-hmm. Yes, sir.
MR. VANAMAN:
You have to say....
MR. CLIFFORD:
Yes, I did. Yes, sir.
DET. CLARK:
And he was, and he was brought in under... what was his role?
MR. CLIFFORD:
My understanding of what Louis did was to keep us apprised of activities

and information going on during legislative session.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Up in Tallahassee?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Up in Tallahassee.
DET. CLARK:
And in what capacity? As an advocate or a consultant?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Using your definition, a consultant.
DET. CLARK:
Okay. And it's not my personal definition, it's the definition of the contract
that he signed with PB. Would that be correct, sir?
MR. CLIFFORD:
Yes.
DET. CLARK:
Thank you. I don't have any further questions.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you have any influence on Parsons being chosen for this Go
Hillsborough, what came to be known as Go Hillsborough?
MR. CLIFFORD:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you make any phone calls...
MR. CLIFFORD:
Not a one.
CPL. HOLLIS:
To influence any decision making?
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MR. CLIFFORD:
No, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Are you aware of anybody that did at Parsons?
MR. CLIFFORD:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Are you aware if Beth Leytham did that?
MR. CLIFFORD:
No. Not that I'm aware of.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Are you aware of any ethical issues going on amongst the county
commission or the PLG members involved in this process?
MR. CLIFFORD:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CLIFFORD:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright. I don't think I have any more questions. Do you have anything else
you'd like to say, sir?
MR. CLIFFORD:
No, I'm just... I'm just still a little.... And I don't... I'm just.... I don't want to
make...I'm not quite sure I understand the consultant. I don't write the
contracts.
DET. CLARK:
Okay. Trent Clark.
MR. CLIFFORD:
I don't write the contracts.
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir.
MR. CLIFFORD:
So I don't... you know it's....
DET. CLARK:
Trent Clark for the record. Just.... It wasn't a trick question. What I was just
trying to do was you had mentioned and answered one of my questions
when you said that she served as an advocate. On page two of the
contract, it's listed as G. It uses that term as an advocate. So I was just
seeing if you were checking down the boxes as you were speaking.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Oh.
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DET. CLARK:
For my recollection of the contract, I was looking at her as she was...as

she was...
MR. CLIFFORD:
Got you. Got you. I wasn't. I have not looked at that contract in quite some
time.
DET. CLARK:
And that's why I offered you an opportunity to look at it and what I wanted
to do is just so you see that I wasn't trying to be tricky...in section G here it
mentions the word advocate and so you had defined her and through your
questioning your answers were consistent with everything checked off
there. If you look at the contract, some of the things that you mentioned
with the exclusion or...
MR. CLIFFORD:
Got you.
DET. CLARK:
Omission of the word consultant.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Oh, I got you. Okay.
DET. CLARK:
So it was a consulting contract.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Yes.
DET. CLARK:
So I wasn't trying to be tricky.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Okay.
DET. CLARK:
But sometimes when we have these interviews certain words like

consulting and now lobbying somehow become very, very tricky, when it is
actually what it is, but there's connotations that come with that and they've
been voiced through some of the other ones. But if it is....
MR. CLIFFORD:
I got you.
DET. CLARK:
If it is what it is, then it is what it is. Okay. Sir. I wasn't trying to....
MR. CLIFFORD:
No, no, no. I just thought it..I was not following...Yes. When I said the very
first word when I started, it's always been described as advocate. That's
the word we've always used.
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DET. CLARK:
And that may be the jargon and that's consistent with the contract, so it is
a deliverable. I wasn't trying to... I didn't want to leave you with that
connotation that I was trying to box you in.
MR. CLIFFORD:
I got you...No worries. No worries. I appreciate it.
DET. CLARK:
And if you look at it and see everything here, I think we're in congruence
here. Yes, sir.
MR. CLIFFORD:
Thank you.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you very much. I'll stop the recording. It's 10:56 a.m.
End of interview.
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Attachment Description: BONNIE WISE INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:

2015-691857
Corporal Charles Hollis, ABN 5603, and Detective Trent Clark, ABN 173949,
interview Bonnie Wise, Hillsborough County Chief Financial Administrator. Also
present was Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222493.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Today is October 22, 2015. The time is 10:20 a.m. This is Corporal
Charles Hollis, ABN 5603. Also present for this interview, ma'am, if you
would state your first and last name.
Bonnie Wise.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:

Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
DET. PORTALATIN:
DET. CLARK:
CPL. HOLLIS:
And this interview is being conducted in reference to the Go Hillsborough

investigation by the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office. This is taking
place on the 26th floor of the county building downtown. Ma'am, if you
would just kind of as a way of introduction kind of tell me what your title is
here and your, I guess, what you do here.
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
For: 4602
Alrighty. I am the chief financial administrator, so I oversee various departments,

including budget, procurement, human resources, strategic planning,
affordable housing.
Okay. I forgot to do this. Could you raise your right? I have to swear you
in. Do you swear or affirm the information you have provided and will
provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
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Case No: 2015-691857
Re: Interview of Bonnie Wise
MS. WISE:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Okay. Thank you. So that's kind of a big undertaking. How long have you
been at the county?
Four and a half years.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Under the same position?

Yes.
Okay.
Some of the departments have changed over time, but yes.
Okay.
Have gained some, lost some.
Alright. And prior to working for the county in that capacity, where were
you?
Right before here, I was the chief financial officer for the city of Tampa.
Oh. Okay. Well, I'll just jump right in. So the Envision project that was
undertaken by the city, did you have any involvement with that?
No. I was here at that time.
Okay.
So I was the chief financial officer for the city under Pam Iorio's administration.
Okay. Alright.
And then came here in April of '11.
Okay. Very good. So when you came here April 2011, who do you report
directly to?
Mike Merrill.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Mike. Okay. So in 2011, the procurement process began, what we

understand, May of 2011 when they had the 53 firms that they whittled
down to 10 during a procurement process. Were you involved in that at
all?
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
No. Is that something you're ever involved in; the procurement of

businesses?
Me personally, no.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Well, your department?

Procurement... it could be. It depends. Some things are handled at the
department level and some things are handled at the procurement level
depending on what type of procurement it is.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
And what departments report to you? I mean I know you're the chief
officer of.... So how many departments do you oversee?
Procurement, budget, strategic planning, affordable housing, and human
resources.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Okay. So your involvement in the procurement process itself as far as the

53 to the 10.
Which I think was a CCNA process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Yes.
From what I've heard.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Mm-hmm.
No.
Okay. Were you involved in the planning of or the establishment of the
PLG, the Policy Leadership Group which had been called TED prior to?
I did participate in that and specifically the financial part of that.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Okay.
When it was TED especially there was a finance group that met regularly here in
County Center.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Okay.
To look at financing options. And then of course, I would attend the big TED
meetings as well.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Alright. In 2010 when they tried the tax initiative that ultimately failed, were
you part of that process?
I was at the city.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
You were at the city, the Envision happened after you left the city and
came to the county.
Right. So I was at the city for 8 years.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Alright.
From 2003 to 2011 while Pam Iorio was mayor.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Alright.
So I was there in 2010 during the failed referendum and then in April of '11 her
term ended. I came here.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Okay. What is your understanding of why the TED group was formed?
I think it was an outreach. The board went through a strategic planning process
for a while with the consultant Herb Marlow and then from that, there was
discussion of the next initiative and so I remember there was a board
meeting where the board specifically spoke about creating a
transportation, a group from members of the cities, and HART formed the
TED group.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Okay. And Mike Merrill was involved in that as well?

Yes.
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Okay. And the reason to have that... was the reason to form that board to
initially bring the failed referendum from 2010 back on to try it again, but
just kind of have a different approach involving more community leaders?
I'm trying to remember the conversation at the board meeting on that day.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Sure.
And the board meetings subsequently. I don't know if it was specifically related to
the failed referendum, but just to address.... I remember it as addressing
transportation issues generally.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Because there are a number of issues.

Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
And how to fund those that....

What to do. Where do we go from here?
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Okay. Alright. So then kind of jump up. How often... do you attend all of the
board meetings or try to?
I do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Okay. You do. So you would have attended also the TED or PLG meetings
as well?
Yes.
Alright. So then in August of 2014 when the board has Mike Merrill, they
give him the authority to go ahead and let's choose a private firm that has
experience in this realm. Do you remember that meeting?
I was probably at that meeting. I would have to look at my calendar to make sure
I was at the meeting, but generally I would try to make all the meetings.
Okay. So once the board had their say in having Mike.... Did Mike consult
with you about that process and how to go about choosing a firm?
Not really. No.
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Okay. Were you involved in that process?

We have a financial adviser who does some work for us from time to time called
Larry Scully, so he would have talked to me about contacting Larry if
needed.
Okay. Do you remember if the did that?
I don't think he contacted Larry.
Okay.
I think maybe someone in Public Works maybe contacted Larry.
Okay. But you did not?
But I may have said that somebody was going to call him.
Okay. But Larry's been used in the past with consulting type work for
financial standpoint?
Yes. Right. Yep. Yeah.
Alright. Do you know...?
He's one of our financial advisers.
Okay. Do you know who was involved in the decision making of
determining a firm for the Go Hillsborough?
I think it was handled in the Public Works Department.
Okay.
Because they knew the scope and so I don't really know the characteristics of an
engineering firm.
Right.
You know, what he's looking for, so we would rely on the Public Works
Department to evaluate those... you know, the requirements to decide
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Case No: 2015-691857
what kind of scope it was and what kind of expertise they would be looking
for.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Were you involved in any of those meetings?

No. Not that I recall.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
When the decision was made to go with Parsons, were part of that
decision?
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Are you aware of any outside influence or influence within the department,
within the county to have Parsons chosen?
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Okay. Have you heard of any influences that...?

Well, subsequently apparently.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Well, I mean I know with the investigative story that that's the assumption
being made.
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
But have you heard anything factually?

No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Okay. And anybody tell you hey, you need to choose Parsons?
No.
Okay.
Nobody told me anything nor did I choose them.
Okay.
I mean I wasn't responsible for choosing them.
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is it your understanding that Mike Merrill had the final say with choosing
Parsons?
MS. WISE:
No. I don't even know who would. I really thought it was handled in Public Works
on... who chose them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Okay. But Public Works is a department that reports to Mike, correct?

Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Okay.
Ultimately, we all do, right?
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Yes. When did you meet Beth Leytham?

At one of the meetings at Parsons.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
At Parsons.
I did not know her prior.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
So prior to the Go Hillsborough project you had never met her before?
No.
Okay. Have you ever heard of her before the Parsons and now before
this?
I may have heard her name before.
Alright. Okay.
Since I've been around, you know, government for a little while.
Okay.
But I had not met her.
Okay. Are you aware of any influences she may have had in the choosing
of Parsons?
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Case No: 2015-691857
MS. WISE:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
No. Some of the.... We requested lots of text messages and we've gotten
some from you.
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
So just to put some context into them.

Yep. That's not the first one.
Well, yeah. There's a June 5th, that's an April 8th, and then a January 30th.
Do these appear to be the ones that you...?
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Yes. Those are mine.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Are there any other ones?

Nope.
Okay.
This is the first.
Alright. So Beth Leytham.
Right. So this was Beth texting me her phone number.
Okay.
Because I didn't have it.
Alright.
So said who it was. Thanks. So we were working on the Go Hillsborough
meetings, so I texted her that I saw a sign.
Okay.
Because we were like where's the signs? Are people seeing them? Are they
legible? You know, that kind of thing. So I texted her that through my dirty
windshield.
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Okay. So this is a continuation?

Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
And then your next one....

She texted this to me. This was an editorial that was in the paper because we
were probably in a meeting that day, which makes sense because that's
Friday because we often met on Fridays at Parsons; like every other
Friday. And I probably said I didn't see the article in the paper and so she
texted me the link.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Okay. Very good. And then....

And then I probably saw another sign.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Yeah. Through my dirty windshield. So basically a January, a February.

No. I think it goes like this order. I think that's the order.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Okay. So January, February, April, June.

Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
That's the (indiscernible). Did you all ever speak on the telephone about
certain things?
No.
What was your normal communication methods? Was it telephone, email,
text?
I only saw her at the meetings.
Or at the meetings. Okay.
Or that, or that through the text.
Okay.
That's the nature of the text. Yeah.
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Prior to her being under contract for the Go Hillsborough project, were
you aware she was under contract with Parsons on any other matter?
No.
Alright. How would you describe your relationship with Beth?
Cordial.
Okay. But as far as any outside relationships, friendships you all would
meet for dinner?
We're friends on Facebook.
Okay. Alright. But other than that, any other relationship there?
No. We've never had any social activity.
Okay. Alright. Any ethics issues that your concerned about with the whole
process of how Go Hillsborough began, the selection of Parsons? Are you
aware of any ethics issues?
No. No, I'm not.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I think that's all I have. Trent?
DET. CLARK:
Just for clarification. You said friends on Facebook, is that her business
Facebook? She has a business account?
MS. WISE:
DET. CLARK:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
No. Personal.
Her personal. Okay. Thank you.
I think on her birthday I wished her a happy birthday.
I guess if your friends doesn't mean you're friends.
You're that important to other people, right?
Exactly. Sure.
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MS. WISE:
Right. Yeah. Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sam, do you have any?
DET. PORTALATIN:
None for me.
MS. WISE:
I think I liked a photo, you know, maybe.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
Any questions, ma'am?

No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. WISE:
If we had some in the future, would you be okay if we spoke to you?

Oh, absolutely. Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Very good. Well, I'll stop the recording. The time is 10:32 a.m.
End of interview.
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For: 4602
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Attachment Description: FRANK CHILLURA INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:
For: 4602
October 27, 2015/0912 HOURS

2015-691857
Corporal Charles Hollis, ABN 5603, interviews Frank Chillura, Mayor of Temple
Terrace, as witnessed by Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222593
CPL. HOLLIS:
Today is October 27, 2015. The time is 9:12 a.m. This is Corporal Charles
Hollis; ABN is 5603, Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office. Sir, would you
state your first and last name?
MR. CHILLURA:
Frank Chillura.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And you spell the last name, please?
MR. CHILLURA:
C-h-i-l-l-u-r-a.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And Mr. Mayor, you're aware our conversation is being recorded?
MR. CHILLURA:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I have your permission for that, sir?
MR. CHILLURA:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And also present?
DET. PORTALATIN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
And this interview is being conducted at 9732 56th Street North.
MR. CHILLURA:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:

investigation by the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office. And Mr. Mayor,
you're the mayor of Temple Terrace, is that right?
MR. CHILLURA:
Correct.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
Re: Interview of Major Frank Chillura
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Would you raise your right hand, sir? Do you swear and affirm the
information you'll provide today is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. CHILLURA:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. Okay. Just by way of introductions, I know you're the mayor of
Temple Terrace. How long have you been the mayor?
MR. CHILLURA:
Since 2012.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And as mayor, were you also part of a transportation board with

Hillsborough County?
MR. CHILLURA:
Go Hillsborough? Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes, sir. But it was called... it wasn't always called Go Hillsborough, right?
MR. CHILLURA:
Right. Yeah. The mayors of the three cities and the county commissioners
I think are part of that board.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And when did you join that board?
MR. CHILLURA:
Over a year and a half.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CHILLURA:
I don't have an exact date for you, but I know....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. No, that's fine. That's fine. How were you contacted, I guess, to...?
MR. CHILLURA:
I think through the County Administrator's Office.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So Mike Merrill and his office?
MR. CHILLURA:
Yeah. I believe so. Yes, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And during that time, how often would you all meet?
MR. CHILLURA:
Like once a month maybe.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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Case No: 2015-691857
MR. CHILLURA:
From time to time, they'd come out and do a little briefing. I think back
then they had a guy named Herb Marlowe that was involved. He was like
the guy that originally started getting the ball rolling, but he hasn't been
around in quite some time now.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Was there an explanation as to why the board was created?
MR. CHILLURA:
Yeah. For looking at different means of, you know, transportation and
funding resources and you know, at least that's what I get out of it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Now particularly with this Go Hillsborough investigation, which was

spurned on by a news reporter and made some allegations through
Parsons Brinckerhoff that was brought on and a subcontractor, there is
Beth Leytham, and that there was improprieties there and that's one of
things we're looking into, but as well as the involvement of the board and
ultimately choosing Parsons towards the end there. In August of 2014, is
when the board met and had... told Mike Merrill go ahead and let's choose
a private company. Are you remembering that meeting?
MR. CHILLURA:
Vaguely. I remember when they came forward and gave some kind of
presentation. You know, I'd have to go back and review stuff, but I...
overall, I vaguely remember the discussion.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And the name Beth Leytham, had you known of her?
MR. CHILLURA:
If I saw her, I wouldn't recognize her.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So there... was there any time that you all met together and discussed any
part of the transportation initiative?
MR. CHILLURA:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Were you told any particular company that you should, I guess, vote
for or push for this initiative?
MR. CHILLURA:
No. Not at all.
CPL. HOLLIS:
From what I understand, there was a list of vendors that had been
approved through the procurement process from 53 down to 10 and the
10 were the ones that were looked at for this particular transportation
initiative and then ultimately it was narrowed down to Parsons. I guess,
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
essentially, what was your involvement in... or did you have any
involvement in the choosing of Parsons?
MR. CHILLURA:
Well, when the board ultimately said yes, go there, but prior to that, no. I
mean, I didn't have any, you know, discussions about different vendors or I
just.... Everything.... I've learned more from the media coverage than from
anything else that's been going on, aside from a couple of little, couple
meetings we've had in between our regular scheduled meetings, just
updates what we should expect at the next meeting, I've not had any
discussions whatsoever about any activity whether it be, you know, a
vendor or let's pick this guy. I just... I've not been involved in anything like
that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Any of the companies, anybody from their management group

reached out to you and..anything like that?
MR. CHILLURA:
No. No. The only time I spoke to somebody from that company was either
on a conference call when they're talking about this is the funding that
we're looking at, the vehicle we'd like to use for a possible referendum.
But that's the only time. We never were actually talking about business of
where Go Hillsborough's possibly going to go and options. That's the only
time I would have communication with somebody from that consulting
group.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Are you aware of any ethical issues with the choosing of Parsons?
MR. CHILLURA:
I've not been that deeply involved, to be honest with you. Aside from what
I've seen, I know I've done nothing wrong.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. CHILLURA:
So, you know, I just go by.... I attend the meetings, the groups there. We
have discussions and you know, the only.... And any time I've spoken, we
have our regular Go Hillsborough meetings, which all the board members
are there for the most part. And then from time to time, we get a briefing
and that can either be via phone or visits to city hall. At no time was there
a meeting where me and one person is forming a group; me and the city
manager, and then you know county officials and maybe somebody from
the consulting agency. But there's never... I've never had a meeting, a one
on one saying we're going to do this or that whether we're talking about
Go Hillsborough, we're talking about strategies, I've not had any... not
been involved in anything like that.
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Was there any particular commissioner you ever met with about Go
Hillsborough?
MR. CHILLURA:
About the...? No. I don't.... The only person I spoken to about Go

Hillsborough outside the circle was our city manager and hey, we have a
meeting next week. You know, what do we expect at the meeting.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. CHILLURA:
That's really the extent of it. I don't....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Alright. I don't think I have any other questions.
DET. PORTALATIN:
No questions for me.
MR. CHILLURA:
It's pretty....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. CHILLURA:
Which is good. That I don't know, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
If in the future if I needed to come and talk to you again...?
MR. CHILLURA:
Sure. Absolutely. Call me. Come see me. Whatever.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I appreciate it, sir. I'll stop the recording. It's 9:19 a.m.
End of interview.
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Attachment Description: GEORGE WALTON INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:

2015-691857
Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222593, interview George Walton
CPL. HOLLIS:
Today is December 18th, Friday, 2015. The time is

2:21 p.m. This is Corporal Charles Hollis, ABN 5603. This interview is in
reference to the Go Hillsborough investigation; that's Hillsborough County
case number 15-691857. Also present for the interview....
DET. CLARK:
DET. PORTALATIN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Ma'am?
MRS. BASSINI:
Laura Bassini with Greenberg Traurig.
MR. KEHOE:
Greg Kehoe with Greenberg Traurig.
MR. WALTON:
George Walton with WSP Parsons Brinckerhoff.
MR. VANAMAN:
And I'm David Vanaman. I'm assistant general

counsel for Parsons Brinckerhoff.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. And Mr. Walton, are you aware our

conversation is being recorded?
MR. WALTON:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
For: 4602
MR. WALTON:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. And this interview today is being

conducted downtown. We are on the 19th floor.
MR. KEHOE:
Yes.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
Re: Interview of George Walton
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Thank you. Sir, would you....
MR. VANAMAN:
At 101 East Kennedy Boulevard.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Would you raise your right hand, sir? Do you swear or

affirm the information you'll provide today will be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth?
MR. WALTON:
I do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you, sir. And here, what is your title with

Parsons?
MR. WALTON:
I am the southeast regional manager and by corporate title, senior vice

president.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WALTON:
Okay. And how long have you been in that capacity?

In that role? Two years.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Two years. And prior to that, were you more local

here in Tampa?
MR. WALTON:
Yes. I was area manager for the Tampa office. Prior to that, area manager
for Orlando office. I've been with now WSP Parsons Brinckerhoff 21 years.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Very good. And now when you were here as the

regional manager, is that what Bob Clifford title is kind of now? He kind of
took over that role?
MR. WALTON:
Correct. Just to clarify. It's called area manager for the local office.
Regional manager for the geography.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Got you. Very good. Okay. And so obviously when

you were here locally, Parsons Brinckerhoff was trying to get involved with
I guess members fo the Tampa Bay community, Tampa Bay region. Was
there somebody that you had assistance in helping you do that?
MR. WALTON:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Who was that?
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. WALTON:
Beth Leytham.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And how did you come to meet her?
MR. WALTON:
She was in place. Let me step back because I, I came into the Tampa
office what would be 3, 4 years ago to take over as the area manager.
Beth was already in place working with the prior area manager in her role
and capacity, so I will describe it as I inherited her in that position.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And what was her primary, I guess, goal when

you came on board?
MR. WALTON:
As a corporate initiative several years ago, we wanted to reach out and

become more in tune with what's going on in the local communities.
Transportation is obviously very important to local economies and quite
frankly, most people don't understand what it is or what isn't. So we felt
like from our perspective to be better corporate citizens to be involved and
engaged we needed to elevate our profile in communities and we were
doing this in a lot of different places and we would do that through working
with folks like Beth. So part of it was getting engaged and understanding
the local landscape, who the stakeholders are, how decisions get made,
who's making them, but it's also being a corporate citizen and getting
involved in things like the Economic Development Commission, like the
Tampa Bay Partnership, etc. We work very diligently in that community
because quite frankly what we're looking for is to make sure people
understand roles that transportation plays in the community and just kind
of get that engaged.
CPL. HOLLIS:
How was she, how did she help you get engaged?
MR. WALTON:
Simply put, being in the community for as long as she has, she has
relationships and so she made introductions. She also provided us consult
on where and how to get engaged; things like the Tampa Bay Partnership.
We wouldn't necessarily see that, because quite frankly a lot of times as
we go about our day to day business, we tend to heads down, stay
focused on clients and project delivery and not necessarily look up and
see how to be effective in what I'll call the see suite.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Well, were there particular people...? Would

she have lunch dates, dinner dates? Is that how she kind of involved you
in getting to know certain people?
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MR. WALTON:
Yeah. Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WALTON:
Okay. And was mainly with elected officials?

No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WALTON:
Okay.
No. It was also being part of, like I was saying, the Tampa Bay
Partnership. That's a adjunct to the Chamber of Commerce, if you will.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. WALTON:
Economic Development Council, Commission Council, EDC. Same type

of thing. That's a collection of businesses. Now the EDC does have some
elected officials that sit on the board. I recognize that, but there's also
folks from Bank of America, from fill in the blank...so it's part of getting us
as an industry engaged in the local conversations.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But being part of those committees or groups, you're

donating money to be part of those things.
MR. WALTON:
For the Tampa Bay Partnership, yes. You have to, you know, it's part of
being... it's a membership.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. WALTON:
But it's also a time donation.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And... what was... I guess Beth's title? A

consultant?That's what the contract.
MR. WALTON:
The contract will say consultant. It would also advocate. I blur the terms
quite frankly.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WALTON:
Yeah.
Because I look at it as a consultant myself. I bring advice and you know,
how you choose to use that advice is up to you. So whether it's term of
advocacy or consultant, I look at it as synonymous. It was building our
profile in the local community, getting us engaged, and helping to guide us
to be part of that.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. I mean you were... you had her under contract.

You're paying her a fee to provide certain services, consulting services for
MR. WALTON:
Yep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Nothing wrong there. So then we kind of move to the

what came to be known as Go Hillsborough. It wasn't that....
MR. WALTON:
Correct. Understood.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But prior to that there was an attempt in 2010 for a tax

referendum. It failed. Were you in this landscape around that time?
MR. WALTON:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WALTON:
You were?
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WALTON:
Were you part of any of that?

Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WALTON:
Can you kind of touch on that?

Absolutely. Back during those days, I was actually the project manager for
a project at HART. It's called the HART AA. It's the one in all of the
newspapers about the light rail and all the different components. When the
referendum came around in 2010, fortunately or unfortunately, that
became the nexus of what the vote was going to be on. A lot of people
thought that they were voting... if I vote for this, this is the only project I'm
going to get.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WALTON:
Right. You're talking about rail.

Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
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MR. WALTON:
And if you pause, if you would, one of the reasons I want to part of the
community is to be able to explain that's not what you're voting on
because most people don't get it. They just don't understand
transportation and I won't bore you with the details on that because it
steals from everybody's time. But yes, we were involved back then
because it was part parcel of what we do. We're transportation planners.
We're transportation designers and we were leading the effort on HART
AA, which became the lightning rod for that, so yes, we were engaged.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And when that failed, did you still kind of seek if they
were going to try another.... Because obviously they are transportation
needs here. There's no doubt about it and how you're going to pay for
that?
MR. WALTON:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So did you kind of keep close tabs on any direction

that they were going to try and attempt it again?
MR. WALTON:
Well, as an industry of course we're going to watch that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WALTON:
Yeah.
And the next one that came up was across the bay in Pinellas, right? But
also as an industry, we watch what's going on around the country. It's part
of what we need to do. But locally, yes. We were watching and seeing how
it was going to play out. We didn't where it was going to go. We didn't
know what the county was going to do and how to define it until they
worked their way into what ultimately became Go Hillsborough.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Was Beth Leytham part of that keeping tabs on

things?
MR. WALTON:
Well, yes, because it's what's going on in the community and those types
of conversations, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And then you moved to the Go... or Greenlight

Pinellas. Did you have involvement there?
MR. WALTON:
We were on the fringes, so I want to differentiate very clearly what the

contract work that was being done versus what was the... and I'll call it the
campaign part. The contract work was being done by a company called
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Jacobs. We were one of their subs. The work was being done through
TBARTA working hand and hand with PSTA to develop a countywide
transportation plan. Some of it included light rail, some of it included bus
service. Again, I won't go into the gory details. We were doing some of the
public involvement activities and some of the transportation planning
elements as part of that team. Now, that's separate and clearly the
divorced, if you will, from what would be a campaign for Go Hillsborough...
excuse me, not Go Hillsborough, for the Greenlight Pinellas. We
supported that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Then back... kind of back to 2011, the InVision,

2012 time frame. You were subcontractor with AECOM.
MR. WALTON:
Correct. AECOM was the prime and we were a subconsultant to them

doing the public in public.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I know Beth was also a subconsultant. Was she

doing any work for you as far as Parsons Brinckerhoff involved in that
project?
MR. WALTON:
No. We were... AECOM was the prime contractor. They led all the efforts.
Beth and part of her team and then some of our folks work together to
develop and execute the public involvement components.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So you had mentioned TBARTA involved in the

Greenlight Pinellas.
MR. WALTON:
Yep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WALTON:
Is that when you met Bob Clifford?

No. I met Bob 10 years ago.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WALTON:
Okay.
He was... he worked at FDOT. He was... I don't know his official title at the
time, but I would call him the planning director. I had just moved down and
we came in and we wanted to work and we had the opportunity to start
working together on an interstate study; I-75, and he and I just... we think
similar in terms of how things go, so that's when I first met him.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And when we had spoken to him, he mentioned
that you were trying to getting him to come over to Parsons to work.
MR. WALTON:
Heck yeah. You recruit talent.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So then we kind of jump into the PLG or the TED

Group.
MR. WALTON:
Yep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
With all the commissioners and the mayors involved

would eventually select you, your company. How involved before the
decision was made to bring you on, how involved were you in that
process?
MR. WALTON:
Very little, quite frankly. A lot of the activities that were going on on the
county side to develop what they wanted to do based on needs of a
variety of different things, it was being developed for them. We found out
just days before that an ad was going to come out. We tend to do a lot of
research to try to find us through a variety of conversations and we got the
sense that an ad was going to come out. Sure enough we get a phone call
from the county saying hey, you're one of four. We want you to put in a
proposal and oh, by the way, it's due tomorrow and we're like eh, thanks
for heads up. So we obviously submitted for that and we were ultimately
selected.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, with Beth and knowing who she knows in the

different arenas, would she be somebody you could rely on to say hey,
can she get some kind of... I don't want to say inside information. That has
negative connotation.
MR. WALTON:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But she knows people, so if she were to give some

heads up hey, Parsons may be getting a call on this, that'd be valuable
information.
MR. WALTON:
It would be.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And some of the documentation we recovered where

she's talking to Bob and then that information being routed to you that she
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received a call and it being from Sandy Murman that engineering firms
were going to be called.
MR. WALTON:
Yep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Which you're an engineering firm. Did you go to the

August 12th meeting or did you, did you tie into any of the August 12th
meeting from 2014 when they directed Mike Merrill to select somebody?
MR. WALTON:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WALTON:
Okay.
No. That's the county commission directing the executive to say this is
what we want. Go make it happen. And then at that point, if you will, it lead
from leadership to the mechanics.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WALTON:
Sure.
So Mike and his folks were the ones that put together the RFP. They did it
through a guy Larry Scully.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. WALTON:
And he's sort of administered the process on behalf of Mike and then if
you get into the details, it's Mike's staff that went through and reviewed the
proposals...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. But what I'm... I guess my

question is so if you're at that meeting or if you're aware of that meeting
and they say hey, we need to hire a transportation expert.
MR. WALTON:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And that would fall in line with you, so my thinking

would be, well maybe they might call on us.
MR. WALTON:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So trying to get those things prepared, so essentially

there was some word given to your company that you might get a call and
then sure enough you did. But you mentioned something about an ad?
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MR. WALTON:
Well, I didn't mean.... My words. Normally what you would do is get an

RFP.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. WALTON:
And sorry.... It's because I'm thinking about other things and other places,
but no, it wasn't really an ad. It was a very small solicitation of you're going
to do this and this is what we're looking for and that was driven by Larry
Scully.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But had you received a call or any

communication with Beth about hey, you may get a phone call?
MR. WALTON:
Well, I mean, yes. That's in emails.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Correct.
MR. WALTON:
Right. The county's thinking about doing this and you may be one of the
ones that get selected.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So from getting that information, would Beth be hey,

let's get some stuff together in case they do call, so you're just better
prepared instead of hey, we need this by tomorrow and it's a rat race.
MR. WALTON:
We did not. It was the rat race. It was like okay, that's good. But we didn't
know what we were going be asked of. We had no idea what the call could
or could not be in terms of scope of work and those types of things and it
came very quickly.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. One of Beth's... I guess deliverables be to try to

put you in position for work within the Tampa Bay region?
MR. WALTON:
It's more of the introductions and the relationships and then it's up to us.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Okay. But would she be one to call and say

hey, I think Parsons would be great for this job or this particular project?
Would that be something...?
MR. WALTON:
In theory. Yes. I mean, I can't sit here and say otherwise. In theory, yes.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
do?
MR. WALTON:
No. I wouldn't expect her to go out and say pick them. Give them that. I
think that's solely up to us and that responsibility and our credentials and
our relationship, excuse me, relationships to be able to do that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WALTON:
Okay. Was that something you would expect her to
Is that....
She's not the one to go in there and say give them that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WALTON:
That's not her role.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So based on your experience with her, is that

something she... that's not something she does.
MR. WALTON:
Mm-hmm. She wouldn't do that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Is that anything you directed her to do?
MR. WALTON:
No. Nope.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you try to use her relationships with those that are
the decision makers and try to get her to to influence the decision to bring
you all on board?
MR. WALTON:
No. Nope. Did not try to influence. I want to make sure we're clear on that.
No. It was the introductions and it was up to us to be the trusted advisors
and to be able to win and deliver on our credentials.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Now Larry Scully.... Who else did you...? Did you talk
to anybody else from the county?
MR. WALTON:
In terms of...?
CPL. HOLLIS:
When the decision making was going on? I know

Larry Scully reached out to you.
MR. WALTON:
Right.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Did John Lyons?
MR. WALTON:
After the fact and I can't remember if it was John or if it was Mike Williams
from the county that actually made the phone call saying congratulations,
you won. But no, it was a very short and tight window that was in there
between this is what we're looking for in a proposal and then give us your
proposal and several days later we get a phone call. And I just can't sit
here... I don't recall if it was.... I would guess it was John, but it could have
been Mike.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, no. I think there was... because there's a group

of them that are reaching out to different people. I'm not concerned about
that. Just to go back with the.... This is an email from August 13th.
MR. WALTON:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
It looks like you sent it to Bob Clifford and it just says

we may have an opportunity for leadership if we choose. I get the sense
from Beth that Ken, Sandy and others may want our help with this.
MR. WALTON:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WALTON:
Catch up and see what makes sense.

Yep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Can you just speak to the context of that?
MR. WALTON:
Yep. That's just a communications in understanding what's going on in the

big picture that the county, number one, has financial issues, that they just
don't have enough money and what was going on in the community is
there was rumblings about a potential referendum and what the scope and
context of that would be and so from our perspective, what I like to try to
do, is being part of the Community, be able to offer say, hey, did you think
about or could you do or a variety of different things because communities
in Charlotte and Austin and Seattle and a variety of other places could do
these types of things. So from a community leader perspective, I could
see having those types of conversations.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, the reason I mentioned is the day after the

meeting when Mike Merrill has been directed to choose a transportation
expert.
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MR. WALTON:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Which would fall under your company.
MR. WALTON:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And the fact that you had conversations with Beth and
from those conversations she mentions Ken and Sandy and others may
want help. So was there those discussions hey, this may be an opportunity
for Parsons?
MR. WALTON:
Well, that's Beth. She was more than likely at the meeting or listening to
the county commission meeting at that time saying heads up because
she's eyes and ears in the community, so it would be part of her role to
say hey, heads up.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WALTON:
That's what you're paying her for.

Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So she's doing her job.
MR. WALTON:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And I think the emails I mean pretty much

speak for themselves. What role did Beth play early on in Go
Hillsborough? She was under contract in November officially, but she was
still under the consulting contract with you all.
MR. WALTON:
Yep. Let me step back and sort of give you guys.... Let me help you
understand a little bit about how business is done in transportation. Fair?
A lot of times when we get task work order contracts, the first assignment
is to scope and flush out what you're really going to do, so you'll see the
work kind of come in phases. So we win the job in August. First task work
order comes in, typically low dollar value and says alright, we know you
need to get started on certain things and we all agree to that, but we also
understand that this is an X number of months duration project. We don't
know what all it's going to take, so let's get together and get started so we
don't go spinning our wheels and waste a lot of time. So you get that first
task work order in place and you get going. You get mobilized. Then what
you do is you look and say okay, now I'm beginning to understand what
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my scope of services needs to be. How much...? And I'll focus this
specifically on Beth. How much public engagement... excuse me...
engagement, civic activities, and variety of different things that you need
to do and you begin to say okay, now I know there's X number of
meetings. There's no way we have the resources to do it. We need to do
branding. We need to do market research. We need to do all these
different things, which are technical skill sets that fall into her purview. So
we looked at that and said alright, now we need to get resources, so while
she's developing a scope, a schedule, and a budget, we're still working
along. So that's kind of what happens between, if you will, between
September 1 and November and then you get up and moving and then
you get the next assignment and the next assignment. And then it
becomes fluid because when we're standing in the public realm, the PLG
is sitting there they're like well, we think you need more meetings. Alright.
So that's when you get additional task work orders, so when you pull it
back, was she involved from day one? No. But as you begin to develop
and understand what's going on and what the county truly needs from a
transportation plan, that's when you begin to get into the scopes and those
types of things. So I don't know if that helps you understand sort of how
the timing works and stuff like that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, I understand that. She was at one of the first

meetings that you held with the county.
MR. WALTON:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And that's just because you weren't sure what

they were needing essentially, so bring whoever you can.
MR. WALTON:
Correct. And she had an understanding and we heard early on statements

like we like the way InVision was done. We like this and we don't like that
and you put your experts in the room and say okay, let's see where we're
going to go.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WALTON:
It's a good business practice.

I think it's good for the community.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WALTON:
Well, sure. But I mean...

But yes it is...
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CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WALTON:
You're being brought on for this potentially big project.
You're hiring technical experts and you can say there's civil engineers,
bridge engineers, public involvement, branding, drafting, and all the
different things, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Does Parsons have a public engagement person

aside from Beth?
MR. WALTON:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WALTON:
But somebody who does those sort of things.

Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WALTON:
Okay. Why not use them?

Two different reasons. Some of the people and the resources that we
have aren't local. Right? And then some of the folks have local I will
describe as more mechanical and I don't want to demean them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. WALTON:
But when it comes to public involvement, there's a lot of different facets.

There's scheduling the room, printing the boards, making the brochures,
and doing all that other stuff, but there's also people that sit back and say
how do I message this? How do I take all this technical data and all the
stuff that we live and talk about and enjoy, how do I translate that through
the Rosetta Stone so that there's somebody on the other end that
comprehend it and then that's what we're going for because when you go
out in the public realm, you're... I don't want to say you're creating the
debate, but you're creating a public dialogue that people understand. If it's
light rail, what is light rail? What is commuter rail? What is a train? What is
a bus? And all these different things, she could translate that. She's one of
those persons that can do that. We can't. I mean I could bore you to tears
on the technical stuff, but there's a unique skill set that people have in
terms of communication. She's one of the persons that has that, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
And you were able to develop that through your

working with her since you came over to be here locally...
MR. WALTON:
Yes.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
And I guess inherited her, her services?
MR. WALTON:
Yes. But even on the technical side, you would giggle at some of the
arguments we would have over you know, what is the meaning of is?
CPL. HOLLIS:
I don't doubt that and having spoken with Beth, I don't

doubt that at all. I don't think I have any more questions. If these
detectives do, is that okay?
MR. WALTON:
Oh. Sorry. Yes. Of course.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Sam Portalatin for the record. I think you pretty much answered the
question I'm going to ask, but just to kind of clarify it for me a little me a
little bit.
MR. WALTON:
Sure.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Was she the choice for the public outreach representative right from the
get go when you're putting together what the county might need as a...? In
other words, when they sent you this request for information to put
together a packet that you might do.
MR. WALTON:
Mm-hmm.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Was it in mind at that time that we could use Beth for public outreach or
what I thought was I hearing was that you weren't really sure what they
were going to be doing, so maybe she wasn't the thought early on?
MR. WALTON:
Correct. The project drove the process. Right? The needs of the project
drove that, so no. We didn't go in saying Beth is immediately part of the
team. We didn't know that. When we sat around and began to grasp the
range of the serves that the county needed and that our understanding of
what it's going to take to develop a sound transportation plan, then we
realized we needed help. We needed technical help and we also needed
bodies, so it was kind of all this....
DET. PORTALATIN:
So it was kind of a fluid decision as information came in...
MR. WALTON:
Yes.
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DET. PORTALATIN: ...coming to this conclusion you were going to need somebody to fit that
profile so to speak.
MR. WALTON:
Correct. Yep. And I'd be remiss to say, we've heard it in the variety of the
conversations, the community on whole liked how InVision was done and
the county said we like that process, so in my world if I hear somebody
say that's the best... I like that bridge. You bet I'm going to go get that
bridge designer to do the work, so you piece those factors together and
she became the right technical resource to do the work. And I will be very
quick to say, regardless of why we're here, the transportation plan was
very well received. You know, it's hard making the soup, but the soup was
good.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Thank you.
MR. WALTON:
You're welcome.
DET. CLARK:
Detective Trent Clark for the record. My question is reference the process
being different, which you guys were already under contract and several
firms had a renewed contract.
MR. WALTON:
Yep.
DET. CLARK:
So when the message came out that they were going to pick an
engineering firm, you guys knew at that time you're at least in the top 10
regardless of the process or did you not know that and did you believe
that it may have been open to an open procurement?
MR. WALTON:
Okay. Sorry. I'm going to take the opportunity for a longer answer. I can't
help myself.
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir.
MR. WALTON:
The way that the process works in our world, and again I think it's helpful
to understand the industry, the original contract that we won, 53 firms... so
an advertisement comes out. Right? Says we want all these different skill
sets. 53 firms competed for and we one of 10 selected, so you have 10 on
call. So think of that as benched, the bull pen. So the county can do a
couple of different things. They can just go alphabetically and hand out
work. They can look at a group and say these are the best bridge
designers, so I'm going to go this one this time, that one the next time,
etc., so they can rotate through based on skill sets. Periodically though,
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they have the ability to say I'm not sure which one's the best and I want
them to compete for it. So in this case what they did is they looked at their
10 and they said okay, out of the ten only 4 really qualify for what we think
we need and what we want, not knowing exactly where it's going to go, so
I'm going to ask those 4 to bid on something. So from what I understand, 4
were called, 3 submitted, 1 didn't, and then we were ultimately selected.
So the county has in their procurement process the opportunity to do it a
couple of different ways. They chose this one just to see if they..., you
know, get the best of the best.
DET. CLARK:
Yes. And we reviewed that process and I've seen the list and the process
there and I just wanted to get your view on.... Well, to make a statement
there. Did anybody in that process, the CCNA process, the other firms
have the ability to object if they weren't selected and to you knowledge,
did any firm object to Parsons being chosen?
MR. WALTON:
Not that I'm aware of. No.
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir. That's it. That's my last question. Oh, one more.
MR. WALTON:
That was a good one.
DET. CLARK:
Just to clarify.
MR. WALTON:
This is my last answer.
DET. CLARK:
That was a teaser.
CPL. HOLLIS:
He's looking at that sandwich shop.
DET. CLARK:
And that's my reward. The other thing that you defined, well we spoke on
Beth's role and definition and what she signed on the contract for as being
a consultant. My question is based on what she was not at this time, at
any particular time was she a lobbyist?
MR. WALTON:
No. And I'll be very clear.
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir.
MR. WALTON:
Because we've had the conversations. The difference here, advocacy,

she's working on her behalf, consulting, guiding, offering advice, never
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
asked her to get a vote and to me that is a very big difference between
and advocate or consultant, whatever, versus a lobbyist.
DET. CLARK:
That is my last question. I promise. Thank you.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. I don't think we have any more. I appreciate

your time. Is there anything else you'd like to say, sir?
MR. WALTON:
No. I'll let you off easy. I won't ask any questions.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I'll stop the recording. It's 2:48 p.m.
End of interview.
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Attachment Description: HERB MARLOWE INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:

2015-691857
Corporal Charles Hollis, ABN 5603, interviews Herb Marlowe
CPL. HOLLIS:
Today is Wednesday, December 9, 2015. The time is 3:29 p.m. This is

Corporal Charles Hollis, ABN 5603, Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office.
This interview is in reference to the Go Hillsborough investigation; 15691857. I'm currently at a Courtyard Marriott Hotel at 3725 Harden
Boulevard in Lakeland, Florida. Also present for the interview... sir, would
you state your name please?
MR. MARLOWE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Herb Marlowe.
Will you spell your last name?
MR. MARLOWE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
M-a-r-l-o-w-e
MR. MARLOWE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. MARLOWE:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. If you would raise your right hand, sir? Do you swear or affirm
the information you'll provide today will be the truth, the whole truth, and
MR. MARLOWE:
I do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. And this is in reference to Go Hillsborough and I appreciate

the opportunity to meet with you.
MR. MARLOWE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
For: 4602
Sure.
I guess, I don't know, you may have heard of this investigation going on
involving Go Hillsborough?
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
Re: Interview of Herb Marlowe
MR. MARLOWE:
I know there's a controversy. I stopped in Tampa to fill
up with gas occasionally as I'm driving south. I picked up a Tribune or the
Times and saw something about Go Hillsborough, which I was not familiar
with the term at that point, but once I read it I gathered it was having to do
with the transportation thing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. If you could, sir, just speak to your involvement as far as the Policy
Leadership Group or the TED Group that was formed back in 2013.
MR. MARLOWE:
Sure. Okay. Well, my involvement actually began, the

county issued an RFP for a strategic, which I responded to. It was a
national RFP. They selected 3 firms to interview. I was one of those 3 and
then I was selected.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What do you do for a living? First...
MR. MARLOWE:
exactly that word.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MARLOWE:
I'm a consultant and I work with counties and cities

primarily on strategic plans, business plans, that sort of stuff.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MARLOWE:
I've worked with most of the counties of Florida and a

number of cities as well as out of state, so.... So the focus of that strategic
plan was really at that time, given the economy, on how to create jobs in
the county and move it forward, the county forward economically and as
those discussions progressed, the commission.... And this is work with the
commission itself, not any other body. Came to the conclusion that the
transportation barrier or transportation is going to be a real significant
barrier to where they wanted to go economically. And discussions among
themselves indicate, I guess there'd been an effort a few years prior to
move forward on some transportation issues and the commission's
conclusion that only a couple involved in that and they felt like all 7 of
them needed to be involved in these discussions.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Was that the 2010 referendum attempt?
MR. MARLOWE:
I guess it must have been. Yeah. Yeah.
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MARLOWE:
So they decided that if they committed as a body they

would have a number meetings about it and then someone among them
I'm sure said well we..., you know, we ought to invite the mayors, so let's
build a broader consensus here from the start and then somewhere in the
process HART got involved.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MARLOWE:
So that led to what I think they call the Policy

Leadership Group. And to prepare for those meetings of policy leadership,
we had staff groups working and initially that was primarily planners and
engineers from all of the participating bodies. We also invited the folks
who run the Selmon.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Selmon Crosstown? The Crosstown Expressway Authority?
MR. MARLOWE:
From Tampa.... Yeah. Okay. That's it. They were

invited to participate. I think the Aviation Authority was given the...well
they...They weren't really invited. Everybody just said we'll keep touch with
the Aviation and inform them, you know, which we did. So that was the
real staff group that I worked with and then we.... And then we had a
separate group of the various managers, city managers, county
managers, Mike Merrill, etc., that the staff group would prepare the
documents and materials. Send them to the managers. They'd review
them. We'd re-prepare them. We had....
CPL. HOLLIS:
So a lot involvement going on it sounds like.
MR. MARLOWE:
Yeah. Yeah. A lot of staff work. And so, you know, we

began that process and it was a monthly meeting and my role was to
facilitate the meetings and I also facilitated the staff preparation.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And you were hired by the county for this purpose?
MR. MARLOWE:
Well, I was... this was an extension of my strategic

planning contract. As most contracts they have the ability in there to
extend my work if they wanted to, so they extended me I think normally on
about a 3-month basis to do whatever.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. MARLOWE:
So it was a period of 3-month contracts. And then

we... you know we simply get in meetings and I may give you more detail
than you want, but basically the concept that the staff working group came
up with is there are certain key economic areas that are really where you
have your concentrated jobs and we needed to make sure that the
transportation systems in those areas and between those areas were
working well in the theory that, you know, if those areas can't get people,
workers in and out or products in and out, it's not going to be good for the
economy of the county. So we spent a lot of time trying to identify those
areas. Do an analysis of what the transportation assets and the barriers
were in those areas and that really became the initial set of discussions.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So there's just a lot of just fact-finding, if you will.
MR. MARLOWE:
Yeah. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Just a lot of meetings that took place with the commissioners, the mayors
Hart Director.
MR. MARLOWE:
Well, yeah, we would sort of share our results, our

concepts. Here's what we're thinking. Here's where the areas are.. and I
think we... I can't remember. There were 15 to 20 key economic areas
where jobs are clustered.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MARLOWE:
And we kind of talk through those with them at a very

high level. You know, here are these issues. You know, and they listened
and they'd ask questions and you know, just that kind of thing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
How often did you meet with Mr. Merrill; with Mike Merrill?
MR. MARLOWE:
I probably met with Mike.... Well, I would meet with at

least monthly with the managers. Eric Johnson was my project manager,
so if I were meeting with him I was always with Eric. And we might be
maybe one other time a month just to kind of....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But like in preparation say for these policy leadership meetings.
There was obviously things you were reading from a prepared statement.
MR. MARLOWE:
Right. Yes.
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
So were there times when you would kind of prepare for that with Mike?
MR. MARLOWE:
Yeah. That was a monthly meeting with the

managers.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MARLOWE:
And we would go through here's, you know, here's our

presentation. Here's the points we're trying to make. We talk about roles,
because Mike would take a role, you know, the other manager would take
role. What we were really trying to do is make sure, you know, it was
genuinely a group effort. Well, obviously the county was footing the bill.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. Sure.
MR. MARLOWE:
And so everybody had their sort of role in it in terms

of that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MARLOWE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
So yeah, they'd be prepared.

Did it come to a point where it was kind of felt that you all needed to go
outside of people within the county?
MR. MARLOWE:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Trying to get more expertise?
MR. MARLOWE:
Yeah. There were two points. Let me try to think if I'm

accurate about that. Here's what was happening. The staff who are
working on this were not like dedicated as staff. They had to do their jobs
plus this task and then, you know, it was an enormous amount of work
and I credit everyone of them for.... I mean, they stayed late, they worked
nights, they worked weekends trying to do this. But it seems like early in
the point there was some tasks we needed and I think it was mainly
drawing maps, we were trying to... you know, create the graphics and the
county went to somebody, some firm the county had a contract to do the
graphs. But as we got toward the end of it, we were preparing for this
meeting....
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
And you're referring to the August 12, 2014?
MR. MARLOWE:
I believe so. Yes, sir. It was becoming quite apparent

that, you know, the Policy Leadership Group was interested in continuing
the conversation. That was as strong a statement as you could make
about it, you know, because everybody had their own ideas about what
that meant. But they at least, you know, weren't ready just to say well,
thank you for the effort and close shop. But that you know we were at a
point where the staff resources just could not do it because two things
were occurring. You know, as you move toward... if the county was going
to put a serious transportation proposal on the table, we had lots of
numbers, but frankly those numbers were drawn off prior to studies. You
know, people were just trying to scramble wherever they could and Mike
and the other managers felt like if we were going to do that, we had to
have really good numbers. Which, you know, we all said yes. Of course.
But that was just beyond the capacity of the staff working there to do that
level of analysis, so I think the managers in particular felt like we had to
have some sort of... probably a transportation engineering firm who would
come in and look at all these projects and put a better number on it as well
as try to do the analysis of, you know, which ones would have the most
impact first.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MARLOWE:
So where should the priorities be? Not from a political

party perspective, but just from a logistical planning perspective you ought
to do this road before you do this road.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MARLOWE:
So there was that clear discussion about that. Then

Mike had hired a more senior communication person.
CPL. HOLLIS:
A male or female?
MR. MARLOWE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Female.
Was it Liana Lopez?
MR. MARLOWE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
Okay.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. MARLOWE:
And Liana felt like, you know, what we had was

basically public information officers sitting around the table and my
communications team because we also had a finance team and a
communications team and I think she rightly judged, you know, we didn't
have either the skill set or the time in that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, plus like you said, there were other jobs that needed to be done too.
It wasn't just the primary focus.
MR. MARLOWE:
Yeah, they're all doing their other jobs. It just wasn't

doing this.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MARLOWE:
So I mean she was making the point that, you know,

hey, you know, if you're going to do a big public outreach, we have to have
a firm here who can, you know, has the skill set to do that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright.
MR. MARLOWE:
I think the Policy Leadership Group was particularly

sensitive to that point because, you know, this is the public
communications. This is their business and so I think sent very clear
messages; we want to have, you know, a professional firm doing this not
you guys who are scrounging 15 minutes a day for it. Now my memory,
and if this is final meeting I was at, they would've probably been in June
and July at the staff level, which we had conversations about we need
these folks.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, in those conversations, if I can.
MR. MARLOWE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
Were there any companies that were thrown out that this would be a great
company to do?
MR. MARLOWE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
No.
Okay.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. MARLOWE:
issue an RFP.
CPL. HOLLIS:
The conversations I was part of was we needed to
Okay. And real quick; an RFP is what again?
MR. MARLOWE:
A request for proposals.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MARLOWE:
Now the concern was a very legitimately raised. An

RFP process at best is a 3 to 6 month process by the time you write it, get
it out on the street, give people time to respond, go through the
evaluations, bring in the interviews, select your firm, do your contact. You
could be set in 6 months and I think, you know, everybody was concerned
about that because at this point there was a lot of momentum about
continuing to move this. But, you know, as further discussions about that, I
wasn't a part of. Any of the last conversation I had was.. and in
conversations, well, could we issue one RFP and get both a
communications and planning firm in that or should we issue two RFPs?
And I have no memory, but my thought would be we probably surfaced
those issues to the managers because that was above everybody's pay
grade there for them to decide. But I don't really remember having a
conversation with the managers about it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MARLOWE:
Other than to communicate, you know, people are

worried about an RFP.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. Just because... did it seem like there was a sense of urgency to
move forward with selecting somebody?
MR. MARLOWE:
I don't think so. Well, I think there was a... I wouldn't

phrases it that way. I think there was a sense of urgency to move forward
and here, you know, remember the Policy Leadership Group had taken
formal action because they really can't.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. MARLOWE:
This is an informal group here. There were members

there who really weren't in on the 2016 ballot. There are members here
2018 and there were members who were keeping their cards very close to
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
the vest of what I have no idea. So I would have to assume, and this is
clearly an assumption on my part, that probably the commission was
communicating some direction to Mike about what they wanted. I think the
urgency really from the staff's level is none us and I just included myself
as a member of this group wanted to be holding the process up. You
know, we didn't want to say well, we can't get this done. We can't get that
done. We're causing the problem for them. Because we were at the end
getting some criticism for why are you... you know, we've been talking
about this a long time. Why don't we have a transportation vote up, you
know?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
MR. MARLOWE:
And so there was... it was primarily the staff concern

of..., you know, I don't want the criticism of we're not producing the work
product. I think that was really at staff level was just trying to be
responsive to the Policy Leadership Group and to make sure it met their
needs.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MARLOWE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
So that's...
Are you aware of anybody having influence on Parsons Brinckerhoff
ultimately being brought in?
MR. MARLOWE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
I am not.
Okay.
MR. MARLOWE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
Are you aware if Mike was ever called and told hey, you need to choose
Parsons?
MR. MARLOWE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
I am not.
During this whole process, are you aware of any backroom talkings that
were going on among the members of the PLG about what direction to
move forward? That they... we need to bring this particular group on? And
you're shaking your head no.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. MARLOWE:
No. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MARLOWE:
I was not. I mean the most, you know, the most...

clearest message they said was really, you know, let's get a good
communications group. Actually, none of them to my memory even talked
about a planning engineering firm, because I just don't... I don't... you
know, it wasn't their concern as much as how is this message going to get
communicated?
CPL. HOLLIS:
It was interesting is that the end of this meeting, I don't know if you recall,
but Commissioner Higginbotham was specific in not a public relations firm
being brought on at the end of it.
MR. MARLOWE:
Oh, that's right. Yeah. He was. I remember that now

when you say that. Well, I think that hinged on the phrase public relations
versus communications and I think that meant... I think to him a public
relations firm... I don't know what it meant, but I think some of them made
a different image as to what a public relations firm is versus a
communications firm. There may not be any real difference but a
difference for all I know. But yeah, you're right. He did not want to see that.
But I think, as far as my memory, that he was sort of a singular voice
about that, things they wanted to have some professional management of
the communication process...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, sure. If I could just summarize.
MR. MARLOWE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
Kind of what you said is that, you know, there were discussions
beforehand. There was a talk among you all as a staff, that this really
isn't.... If we're going to progress to the next level, we needed to bring
somebody in.
MR. MARLOWE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. Yeah.
And plus you all were working on other projects as well and couldn't
devote as much time as you wanted to.
MR. MARLOWE:
Yeah.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
And then almost 2 years into this process. Okay. Do you know who Beth
Leytham is?
MR. MARLOWE:
I only... not personally. Only after I watched....

Somebody sent me an email with a link and looked at it and I listened to
her there, but I don't really personally know who she is.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So during your involvement in the TED Group, PLG, did you ever met her?
MR. MARLOWE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Never heard of her name.

Okay. Alright, sir. I don't think I have any more questions. Do you have any
questions of me?
MR. MARLOWE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
No.
If I were to happen to have a question down the road, could I...?
MR. MARLOWE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Give me a call.
Okay. I appreciate it.
MR. MARLOWE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Absolutely.
I'm going to stop the recording. It's 3:45 p.m.
End of interview.
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Attachment Description: JOHN HOLLINGSHEAD INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:
CPL. HOLLIS:

2015-691857
interview John Hollingshead, Procurement Operations Manager, in the presence
of Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222493.
Today is November 2, 2015. The time is 8:58 a.m. This is Corporal Charles
Hollis, ABN 5603, Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office. This interview
being conducted is in reference to the GO Hillsborough investigation by
the Sheriff's Office. It's case number 15-691857. This interview is on the
25th floor of the county building. And also present for the interview, sir, if
would state your full name, please?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: John Hollingshead.

CPL. HOLLIS:
And spell your last name for the....
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Sure. It's H-o-l-l-i-n-g-s-h-e-a-d.

CPL. HOLLIS:
And sir, you're aware conversation is being recorded?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: I am.

CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: You do.

CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And also present for the interview....
DET. PORTALATIN:
DET. CLARK:
CPL. HOLLIS:
And may I call you John?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Sure.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
Re: Interview of John Hollingshead
CPL. HOLLIS:
John, would you raise your right hand, sir? Do you swear and affirm the
information you'll provide today will be the truth, the whole truth, and
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: I do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. And just by way of introduction, your title, I guess?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: I'm the Procurement Operations Manager for Hillsborough County
Purchasing Department. Basically, all the active..all the procurements
are run through me under purview. They got 5 coordinators and about
25 analysts up underneath those 5, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
So you're just an extra set of eyes to make sure that the processes are being
followed accordingly?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Exactly. Exactly.

CPL. HOLLIS:
And obviously we're on the Go Hillsborough investigation.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: You are.

CPL. HOLLIS:
So the procurement... my understanding is the procurement process kind of

started back in 2011.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: It did.

CPL. HOLLIS:
And what was your job description, title then?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: I was the division director of procurement. Same basic function, except
we were a division under the Financial Services Department. So
everything was just running through me prior to it going to the board or
to the County Administrator.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. We spoke to Scott Stromer last week who is the, I guess, the
procurement director?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Department director now yes.

CPL. HOLLIS:
But he wasn't here back at that time?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: He was not.
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And did... what he's kind of doing now is that something you were kind
of doing back then?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yes. On a smaller scale. We recently about 8 months ago merged with
another section and made us a department and then therefore, they
made us a department and hired a department director.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So in 2011, my understanding is the procurement process began where

you all selected... or you had 53 firms that were interested in general
service contracts that you all signed on to....
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yeah. 53, 58. I'm trying to look to see...

CPL. HOLLIS:
And I know you're looking at a memorandum there. It looks like.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yeah. I'm just looking too see what.... But I mean, yeah, 53. That
sounds correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, that's who apparently who responded to the questionnaire that you all
sent out.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yep.

CPL. HOLLIS:
Is that a standard process that you all go through when you're...?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Very standard.

CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And what was the reason for beginning that process?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: It was at the request of the Public Works Department. There was
probably a... expiring contracts, so we opened a fair competition, so the
same companies can't have the contracts forever. So at the request of
the department, based on a May 31st request for professional services,
they put procurement in motion to go out and solicit.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. That's it. Could I get a copy of that once we're done?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: You already have the copy of that.

CPL. HOLLIS:
I do have a copy of that?
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Case No: 2015-691857
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yeah. This book is what I sent you electronically.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh. Got you. Got you.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: It's just putting the hard copy just so...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Perfect. Okay. Yeah, we're still diving through a lot of documents.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: I know.

CPL. HOLLIS:
But thank you. Okay.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yeah.

CPL. HOLLIS:
Because I remember on Peggy Casky's audit that she did, the 94-page
assessment.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yeah.

CPL. HOLLIS:
She mentions this date, but didn't mention it was by memorandum.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Okay.

CPL. HOLLIS:
So that makes a lot of sense now.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Sure.

CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So it appeared some contracts had expired, so we're redoing the

process again.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Or were going to expire, so prior to the expiration they like to have
contracts in place before they expire, so they put us in motion....
replacement contracts.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And I know we're talking, you know, 4 or 5 years ago. Do you remember
your, I guess....
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: My role?

CPL. HOLLIS:
What your role was in that?
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: I think in my particular role I think I was the supervisor of the section, so
I would have been one level down from the division director, so I was a
supervisor, so my team would have issued the request for professional
services.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. When did you start working for the county?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: June 10, 2002.

CPL. HOLLIS:
2002. Okay. So you were here back in 2010 when they attempted the tax
referendum to try to raise the sales tax back in 2010 that failed?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yeah. I remember. I thought it was later, but it might have been 2010.
But I remember it failing. Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you have any role in that process?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Just a voter.

CPL. HOLLIS:
Just as a voter.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: No, I didn't. No. No role.

CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. How often or do you meet with county commissioners before a meeting
or...?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Never.

CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. You never had the opportunity where they request to sit down with you
and go over any...?

CPL. HOLLIS:
Even if you have an item on the agenda?

CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So then this process begins in 2011 and it appears it takes some time.
What's the average time frame for a procurement like that?
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MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Anywhere from like 150 to 250 days. Just depending on how many
contracts, how many proposers, submitted proposals. Any protests in
between.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And protests you mean by other companies that are....
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Other companies that are finding an inequity or something in the
process and they are afforded their due process to be heard and to
work out any problems they may have.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So and I know it was based on a point system, is that something that you're
part of is going through the list of firms and looking at how they score
out, I guess?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yep. Yep. I don't actually do the scoring, but I would just look just to
make sure that on face value that someone isn't be treated misfairly,
poor.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Something like that.

CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you all find anything like that during this procurement?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Nah I didn't find... treated unfairly, but there was an initial ranking of
scores and then there was a revised ranking.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because we noticed you had sent this one that was....
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yes...

CPL. HOLLIS:
This one that was on the assessment, we received that there was some
asterisks next to them that were tiebreakers.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yep. Yep. But then there was also, after the initial, there was a
revised....
CPL. HOLLIS:
I think we have a copy of that.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: It was a revised addendum because the Economic Development

Department re-looked at whatever their scores were, which then
caused the shake-up in the scores, so....
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Are you aware of any commissioners or anybody having influence on

certain firms getting a higher score?

CPL. HOLLIS:
Is that scoring a computer program or is it something that a group of people...

you look at different people.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: A group of people.

CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: A group of people. Yep. It's all.... It's basically, it's subjective, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
And how do you get more points? What are some of the points based on?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Well, the statute is looking for the most qualified firm. That's what it's
looking for. So there's a... there's basically 5 criteria that they look for.
Some people put sloppy proposals together. Some people put better
proposals together. Some people have more qualifications than others.
So it's that and then there's bonus points for economic development
participation, volume of work, and past performance.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So if they had been a prior vendor before that helps?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: No.

CPL. HOLLIS:
No?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: It hurts them.

CPL. HOLLIS:
It hurts? If they've worked for the county before it actually hurts them?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yes. Because if they've gotten previous work, it'll show up in dollars
being allocated to the company or paid out to the company, which then
would.... If you had no work, you would get 5 points. If you got a million
dollars or more you would get no points.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: So it kind of works out, so you have over come that either through
minority participation or past performance, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Now....
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: But before I go... the statute, in my opinion, is designed to spread the
work out.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Because volume of work, past performance, these were all factors that
the statute lists, so it's there so the same companies don't get the same
work all the time.
CPL. HOLLIS:
That's the statute? Trying to make it a fair process?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Exactly. Exactly.

CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And obviously Parsons Brinckerhoff is a big firm at the head of this
investigation.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yes.

CPL. HOLLIS:
Since you've been here since 2002, how often have you worked with Parsons
on any project?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yeah, I never really worked per se with them. You know, I just see their
name come through on a proposal or something like that, but I mean
how often? I don't know. Three or four times maybe. Just similar
engineering work that they may have submitted proposals on, but I've
always been disconnected from actually reviewing their proposals
because it's either my staff are the ones that are reviewing that and
then pushing it out to the evaluation committee.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: And they are the people that score the proposals.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Got you. And you trust the people that work under you and dothis sort of thing.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Oh, yeah, if I didn't, they wouldn't be on the team.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Got you.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Or the committee.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Got you. So then from the 53 down now to the 10, who determined that it was
going to be 10?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: The department. I can go back for their request. On question number 5,
it says number of firms to be shortlisted. A minimum of 3 and it says 10,
so they put 10.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Is that where you put the number?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yeah. Well, based on their budget. Based on the anticipated work
volume and stuff like that. There's no sense in getting 30 vendors, you
know.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And my understanding is those 10 then were... signed to 2 year

contracts with a cap at $4 million of any, you know, general service
work and there was a scope of work there.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yeah. Just related to engineering. That's....

CPL. HOLLIS:
Correct.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yep. And the...

CPL. HOLLIS:
And general engineering services.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yeah. And that was done on June 6, 2012, by the board.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And then so once you all determine here are 10 that goes before the board
and they ultimately have to approve that.

CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And then we jump to.... Well, let's jump up a little bit to the TED Group
or the Policy Leadership Group.

CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you have any Involvement in the formation of that?
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you ever attend any of the PLG TED Group meetings?

CPL. HOLLIS:
How about regular just board meetings, BOCC meetings?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yeah. Yeah.

CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you attend all of them?

CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: No. I got TV in my office here that I'll watch it. The department directors
are normally the ones that are out front and I'd be more of a support
role.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: You know, they'll text me and say hey, I need this file or hey, I need this
and just scurrying around to get them. I've had to speak at a couple of
them in the absence of the department director, but that's...
CPL. HOLLIS:
That was going to be my next question.

CPL. HOLLIS:
If you have the 10 in case of an absence.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yep.

CPL. HOLLIS:
So in August of 2014, the PLG met and they wanted to move forward with
hiring an outside agency with transportation experience; an engineering
firm or somebody with transportation experience, not a public relations
firm. That was pretty clear at the direction of the board.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Of the Policy Leadership Group?
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Were you at that meeting?

CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Were you involved in the selection process of selecting a firm?

CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you know who was involved in that?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: It would had to have been the department, so John Lyons, Mike
Williams, and their staff I'm sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Are those men that you report to?

CPL. HOLLIS:
Who is your boss?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Scott Stromer.

CPL. HOLLIS:
Scott Stromer. Okay. Well, you're correct. John Lyons and Mike Williams were
part of the decision process. You ever worked with Larry Scully?

CPL. HOLLIS:
And what kind of work have you worked with him?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Larry he's a contractor. Scully Capital, Inc. or Company. It's my
understanding he's out of Washington or Virginia area. He has a 2 year
contract to help or assist with complex projects. They also call P3
projects; public-private partnerships.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. That's what I've heard.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yep. Very reputable company.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So were you aware of any...? So knowing that those men were the ones
kind involved in the decision making, were you aware of any influences
that they had in making that decision?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Other influences?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: None at all.

CPL. HOLLIS:
Did they discuss with you about hey, who we should pick?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Not at all. Not at all. No. And it's my opinion. They have high integrity,
so it's not like.... I wouldn't even need to be asked. They got... they
went through the process. They got their 10 firms. They then are
charged with administrating their contracts, so they have their internal
processes of how they create work orders and stuff like that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, in this particular situation when the board basically directed Mike Merrill
to choose a firm. They did the Direct Select method. Can you kind of
describe that? Is that something you've used before?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: No. I would never use before, but I heard the terminology. Within
multiple wards contracts such as, you know, this request for
professional services for general civil work. There's a list of 10 firms.
Now there might be a reason why a simple rotation bases wouldn't
work, so could be qualifications, experience, previous work. Expertise
in certain areas and stuff like that, so it's certainly a tool shouldn't be,
you know, overly used, but it's certainly available to them to use.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Obviously given where we are today with this investigation, do you think that
was the best method at the time?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Prior to Peggy Caskel...

CPL HOLLIS:
Caskey.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Caskey coming and talking to me... because she did her own audit on
the same topic, I didn't understand exactly what they went through and
you'll hear stuff on the news and read stuff in the newspaper, but after
going through with her, yeah, I do believe it was the right process to use
because at the end of the day we might have gotten the same firm and
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went through, you know, 6 months of, you know, competitive selection
to get to the same firm, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
And is that one of the reasons to do the Direct Select because it cuts down on
time?

CPL. HOLLIS:
No?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: I mean.... Repeat the question again.

CPL. HOLLIS:
The reason you would do a Direct Select is to cut down on time. Let's say you
had a time crunch where you needed to get somebody in there, you've
already got these firms under contract.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: No. Right, right, right. And then I told you before, that the reason is that
you need a mechanism to get down to the say... not a lower ranked
firm, but a lower teared firm. There may be 7 or 8 that may have had
the qualifications that the department or the county is looking for.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: So yes, it is....

CPL. HOLLIS:
And my understanding is the board, I say the PLG board.

CPL. HOLLIS:
I mean they were wanting to move forward quickly on something, so the

mindset....
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: And time constraints is a consideration. Yes. Yes.

CPL. HOLLIS:
That would be a reason to use the Direct Select?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: In my mind, I was thinking sole source.

CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: The statute doesn't allow for sole sources, so unless it's $35,000 or
below, so....
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And we're definitely talking about not a....
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. Right. Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: So there was a time constraint of having to get this work completed and
this work wouldn't have been completed if we would had to gone
through another request for professional services and all that comes
with that. It was a competitive process and even the CCNA is a higher
burden than another process because we're trying to get to the most
qualified firm and price isn't a consideration.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you feel that as you've been with the county that you all follow those
protocols?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Oh, for sure. For sure. Yeah. Because I think if... I think if it wasn't, it
would have came out by now. Someone would have been identified.
There was a flaw. I mean, something, yeah, for sure. For sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Beth Leytham is obviously a person that has been brought forth on this case
as well as possibly having some influence in Parsons being chosen and
I notice on your board there you have Leytham and 43k circled next to
it.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Well, I know. Yeah, I don't know if that's related to her, I get...we
get..public records request or the media contact, either the
commissioners and it comes to Scott Stromer or the communication
department calls me up. So there's been a couple, there's been a
couple people or companies; 83 degrees was another one, but Beth
Leytham just kept coming up.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you know why you wrote her down on your board?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Just as a reminder to me that if I see anything that pops up, it's a public
record because everybody's searching for it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: And plus when I talk to people on the phone, I'll just write it down here.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: And then they ask me then I go in and look to see if there's any
contracts with those people and stuff like that, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you know if you had any conversations with Beth Leytham during this
process?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Not that I have.... I don't even know what she looks like. I mean....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Have you ever met her?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Never. Never.

CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Alright. Are you aware of any influences she had on Parsons being
chosen?

CPL. HOLLIS:
Have you heard any rumors?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Just what's in the news.

CPL. HOLLIS:
Any....
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: They're trying to make a connection there, like... but....

CPL. HOLLIS:
Have you ever seen her as a subcontractor on any past...?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: And that's why it's probably up there, in case... just if I just see
anything. To me it seamless, because once the board or the county
administrator wards a contract, there may be opportunities for
subcontracting, but that's at the department level. The department will
authorize any subcontract area like that, so I don't see invoices. I don't
approve payments and stuff like that. I just set up the mechanism for
them to do the work and then it's all in the department, so it's just.... If I
just happened to stumble across and I saw that name, I'd be like well,
oh! Well, there's a....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright, sir. Do you mind if they ask you any questions?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: No, no, no. Go. Shoot.
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DET. PORTALATIN:
I have none.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
DET. CLARK:
Just with the process you were talking about when you were talking about
some of the firms would be chosen or could be chosen, gives an
opportunity for firms to move up a little bit to spread the word. My
question for you would be out of the firms from your experience that
you see there in the top 50 of that list. Do you think there are firms
there that are just as qualified as Parsons?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: And that's a tough one from a technical standpoint. I don't.... General
civil engineering is very broad, so there's certainly names like AMEC,
Wade Trim, T.Y. Lin International. I don't know if they specialize in
transportation per se, but CPH Engineering. These are firms that are
always in the procurement process. Always common and stuff like that
whether they're engineering firms or individuals better than Parsons, I
wouldn't know, but....
DET. CLARK:
The firms you just mentioned were not in the top 10.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: No, no. They're... I was just going down the list over there. Some of
them are like really big firms. But again, it's all part of the competitive
selection process. They have to put their best foot forward, who their
team is, the makeup of the team. The qualifications of the team. Past
work. Past performance and stuff like that, so there are certainly some
big firms there, but I mean whether one's better than the other, I have
no idea. But based on the advertised document, they had their due
process to protest if we're acting unfair or asking.... If we're trying to
slant it towards a certain company. That's what I'm... that's what they're
there for is to, you know, to....
DET. CLARK:
And getting to the protests, there have been no protests from any of the firms
that weren't selected in the top 10.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: I'd have to go back through here, but it's not my understanding. I'm sure
there were some phone calls because the initial ranking was one, you
know, 10 firms and then the final ranking was different ones, so I'm sure
there was some phone calls that are why did I get dropped off or
something like that, but....
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CPL. HOLLIS:
But you're talking about the initial 53 down to the 10.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yes. Yes. Talking about the 10.
CPL. HOLLIS:
His question is more of when Parsons was selected for the actual Go
Hillsborough project.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Oh, yeah. No. I was not aware of anything like that. But in talking with
Peggy when she... I kind of went through the same process with her.
She kind of went through the process that Public Works went and I'm
comfortable with what they did because they give everybody an
opportunity and they whittled it down, they whittled it down.
DET. CLARK:
And you made a reference to Leytham's name up on the board as a reminder

for public records, what type of training do you guys get for public
records or Sunshine?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: The County Attorney's Office came through about I want to say 6 or 7
months ago. It could be 8 or 9 months ago and the... Mary Helen Ferris,
who's the public records attorney. She might be the managing attorney
for that section I'd have to look at. She came and gave us a training
class an hour and a half or something like that. An hour or something
like that and just.... Basically, everything I do is public records and we
have a couple of systems like the Oracle system on base which lists
our contract. Oracle is the financial system. Somewhere in those
systems those names would pop up if they were directing names to
them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
If the county was making direct names to them?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Yes. Yes.

DET. CLARK:
Are you aware of any for Beth?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: No. The reason I can't see it is because it's being passed through
Parsons.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Got you.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: She was the subconsultant. And that's what I'm saying; I don't see
invoices. I don't sign off on them, so therefore I can't see her along with
any other subcontractor that's out there. But that isn't listed, you know,
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prior to the award and stuff like that, so that's just a reminder for me
just....
DET. CLARK:
The training that was given by Mary Helen Ferris, was that uniform across
the...?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: It was. Oh.

DET. CLARK:
For everyone.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Everybody in the office. Yeah. We all.... There might have been two
people over here that had a..., you know, answered the phones or
something like that, but yes. There it was uniform to all.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Just a couple final things. Do you have anybody or are aware of any
legislation...? When legislation is going on up in Tallahassee when
they're deciding on bills, especially dealing with procurement services
and that sort of thing, do you all have anybody that keeps an eye on
that?

CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Who?

CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: There's a guy named Brandon Wagner. He works for the... he used to
be in the Public Affairs Office. They may have changed it something
now. But him and his staff they have lobbying contracts either at the
state or the federal level and there's a lady named Elizabeth; I can't
remember her last name, that works for him and she'll put out just like a
weekly notice of what's happening up at the legislature.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Either at the federal or at the state and if the County Attorney's Office is
looking at that, that's big fish stuff as far as.... Sometimes they'll come
back and ask us what do you think and stuff like that, so at the time
Tom Fesler and I used to say, you know, is that a pro or a con or
something like that and then it would get filtered back up.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
As far as what the bill was looking at? That was a pro or con for...?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Exactly. For us. It's going to create more work for us. How do we do it
now? Those kind of things.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because back in 2011 when this procurement process began, there was an
actual house bill up in Tallahassee at the time, House Bill 135. Do you
remember that?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: No. Was that to consider costs?

CPL. HOLLIS:
It was dealing with procurement services, but dealing with contracts and how
you were able to reapproach contracts. But anyway, it failed.

CPL. HOLLIS:
But when it failed, that's when this process began a few weeks later, so I didn't
know if that was a correlaton....
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Okay. I think there was no correlation at all. I think the only correlation
would be is that there were probably contracts that were expiring and
this was just to get replacement contracts.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: So that had nothing to do with the legislation.

CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: But the last I remember about the legislation was that right now the cost
is not a consideration when selecting a firm. It keeps coming up. It's like
oh, let's make it 20 or 30 percent of the available points, but it just
keeps failing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But with this particular procurement, they were going to be signed 2-year
deals and the max amount of money was already decided. There was a
cap.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: At $4 million dollars and that's, I think that's based on the Public Works
Department's estimated budget.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: So and in these contracts, there's something called a funding
availability clause and even if the funding was taken away, the
contracts would then be terminated.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: Because there's no funding, so....

CPL. HOLLIS:
Got you. Alright, sir. Do you have anything else?
DET. CLARK:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Anything else you want to say?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: No. I appreciate your time and....

CPL. HOLLIS:
If there's an opportunity where we need to speak with you again, would that be
okay?
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: As always.

CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HOLLINGSHEAD: As always. We're here....

CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright. Well it's 9:27 a.m. I'll stop the recording.
End of interview.
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Attachment Description: JOHN LYONS INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:
For: 4602

2015-691857
Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222493, interview John Lyons, Director of the
Hillsborough County Public Works Department
CPL. HOLLIS:
Today is October 28, 2015. The time is now 10:04 a.m. This is Corporal
Charles Hollis; ABN is 5603, Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office. Sir,
would you state your first and last name?
MR. LYONS:
Sure. It's John Lyons.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And you're aware our conversation is being recorded, sir?
MR. LYONS:
Yes, I am.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. LYONS:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And also present for the interview?
DET. PORTALATIN:
DET. CLARK:
CPL. HOLLIS:

investigation by the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office. That case
number is 15-691857. Sir, would you raise your right hand?
MR. LYONS:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you swear and affirm the information you'll provide today is the truth,
MR. LYONS:
Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Thank you. You could put your hand down. Alright, sir. Well, just a
way of introductions, your name John Lyons?
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Re: Interview of John Lyons
MR. LYONS:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What's your position here?
MR. LYONS:
I'm the Director of the Public Works Department for the Hillsborough
County.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And how long have you been in that capacity?
MR. LYONS:
Originally, I was put in this position October of 2010.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
And had a little hiatus. I was over in the Public Utilities Department, but
been a department director since then.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And prior to October 2010, were you working for Hillsborough County at
the time?
MR. LYONS:
Yes, I was.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And how long, I guess, have you been working for Hillsborough County?
MR. LYONS:
In total I'm going on 18 years. I had worked here for 6 years back in the
early 90's and came back to the county in 2003.
CPL. HOLLIS:
2003. Okay. And what are some of your responsibilities as the director?
MR. LYONS:
Okay. So our department is responsible for roadways maintenance, rightof-way maintenance, solid waste collection, storm water drainage. That's
kind of the operation side of things. We do construction as well; the
Capital Improvement Program, which incorporates solid waste,
transportation, and storm water and we do some of the linear park system
trails. So we have groups of engineers. We're broken up into, I guess, 5 or
6 different groups; however depend you look on them. We have a fiscal
group. We have a geomatics group, which is surveying and mapping and
GIS. We have a field operations group on the transportation and storm
water side of things. We have a Technical Services Division, who all
engineers. And also have the Solid Waste Division.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And how many employees, I guess, do you oversee?
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MR. LYONS:
There's about 620 FTEs in the department.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And what are FTEs?
MR. LYONS:
Full-time equivalent positions.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Alright. And then from that you also have, I guess, subcontractors
that you have contracted out for various work?
MR. LYONS:
Yes. A variety of service. We have a lot of contracts.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And who do you report to?
MR. LYONS:
I report to Lucia Garsys.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And then ultimately, Mike Merrill would fall under that as well?
MR. LYONS:
Yes. Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Kind of going back, you said you began in 2010. Were you part of
the referendum, the transportation referendum that was attempted there in
2010?
MR. LYONS:
No. Previous to that, I worked in the Real Estate Department as the

county surveyor over the surveying mapping geomatics group at that point
in time.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So you had no involvement in that process?
MR. LYONS:
Not directly. We may have had some indirect involvement, but I don't recall
any involvement.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Just even referring to the 94 page assessment that was done by
Peggy Casky, in the timeline, May 2011, is when the procurement process
began with the 53 firms.
MR. LYONS:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Eventually down to 10.
MR. LYONS:
Mm-hmm.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Can you just kind of walk me through that what the process was for that?
MR. LYONS:
So I was.... I'm trying to think. I might have been over in the Utilities
Department, but I can describe the process at that point in time.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
So typically what we do is if we have a need for professional services and

there's kind of two groupings of that. You can have these ongoing
contracts that we write work orders against; miscellaneous contracts,
miscellaneous contracts are typically called, or you can have stand along
projects to where you... say we have a big road design project and so we
go out for an engineering firm to do that. The process is exactly the same
to the best of my knowledge; is that we'll put together a request for
professional services. It's not a bid document. It's a qualification base
selection process. So we had these ongoing contracts for as long as I can
remember. And so they typically are 2-year contracts with a 2-year
renewal cycle, so they're usually here for about 4 years and then we start
the process all over again. And at that point in time, the older contracts
were expiring, getting at the end of their 4-year period so we would have
gone out and requested proposals for general engineering services.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
And in the scope of services it lists a pretty broad swap of activity.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. LYONS:
That the professional can perform.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Now of those... that was done in May 2011. Had that been done to
prior to, so like you said it was getting close to the end of 4 years
MR. LYONS:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So it was time to renew that process again?
MR. LYONS:
To the best of my knowledge for these specific contracts. I don't know

when they originally started. We..and when I was in real estate under the
surveying mapping group, we had similar contracts for surveying and
mapping firms. So we went through a similar process to do that.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And I saw it was based on a point system. Do you have any input in
the amount of points that's awarded?
MR. LYONS:
No. No, I wouldn't have.... I wasn't involved in the process specifically

myself.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Who's involved in that?
MR. LYONS:
Typically, there's a project manager appointed and it's probably one of our
staff engineers that do that and then there'll be a committee of folks which
are typically... it's usually a mix of people. I don't know who specifically
was on that selection committee, but it's 3 or 4 folks that sit on that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
And they'll review all those submittals; those proposals that are submitted,
review them and score those based on some kind of standardized criteria
that the county always uses.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And that Procurement Services Division pretty much runs that?
MR. LYONS:
They guide the process. I think they typically have a procurement lead
person that will, you know, they'll put the document out. They'll receive the
proposals. They'll distribute them to the committee members. They'll
organize the meeting to sit down and go through the ranking process as
well.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. It's a lengthy process then.
MR. LYONS:
Yes, it is.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What's, I guess, the average time frame? Especially when you're dealing
with a size... and this is a pretty large size.
MR. LYONS:
It's probably... the fastest would probably be about a 6-month process, but
it could last up to 10 months.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MR. LYONS:
And then once you get to the short listing, you have to negotiate the fees
with the different firms under this process and then ultimately the contracts
will go to the board.
CPL. HOLLIS:
In dealing with procurement, which obviously a hot topic right now, do you
all have any employees or lobbyists that look at legislation that's going on
involving procurement or contract issues?
MR. LYONS:
So I guess we have some folks that work, not in this department, but they
kind of monitor legislative activities and you know, they'll red flag some
stuff or we'll see information that may come down through professional
organizations that may feed stuff back to individuals in the department.
We may take a look at something. That's typically with any legislative
activity.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. LYONS:
Whether it's right way use, it could have to do with construction contracts
or it could be for professional services contracts as well. We kind of an ear
to the ground to see what's going on.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. Are you aware of any bills that were going on during the 2011 time
period?
MR. LYONS:
No. I wouldn't be.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Because there happened to be actually a house bill in 2011 that's

dealing with procurement.
MR. LYONS:
Okay
CPL. HOLLIS:
It actually started before.
MR. LYONS:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But the bill ended up dying during the same time period as this
procurement began.
MR. LYONS:
I'm not aware of it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MR. LYONS:
Yep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Since you've been with the county for quite a while and then in your
current capacity, is there a manual that you refer to to kind of guide
decisions that you may make. Especially when dealing with procurement
or dealing with contracts and seeking services.
MR. LYONS:
Yes. Yes. So because of our... since it's the capital program, which is all of
our construction so includes, you know, the real estate folks have facilities.
It could be jails. Could be libraries and the other buildings, so the Public
Utilities Department delivers, you know, they're building waste water
plants, water plants, pipe line jobs. Those type of things. Our
transportation program as well. And all in all, there's an expectation by the
auditors that they managed in a similar way, so I think each of the
departments has a project. We call ours a project delivery manual and
within that, it speaks to the process of how we manage the contracts once
we get those.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
It doesn't speak to the procurement policy as far as going out and getting
the general contracts, but internally we do have a process. Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you seek guidance from say the legal team here or even somebody in
procurement services during that process?
MR. LYONS:
During the day to day process?
CPL. HOLLIS:
No, generally if questions arise would you seek legal assistance with
contracts to make sure everything's being followed?
MR. LYONS:
So if it rises to.... I'm trying to think of an example of what that would be. I
mean it's fairly straight forward in my mind. I mean it's a pretty canned
process that we go through. I guess it would depend. It would depend on
what the situation is.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But those, I guess, avenues are available for you if....
MR. LYONS:
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. If we have questions... and a lot of it's.... I

mean there's stuff in the manual, but most of our folks have a lot of
experience as well and there's professional judgment there. So things to
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arise we can either tag out to procurement, ask a question if it's contract
related or tagged to a county attorney's office as well.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And along with a manual, I know in certain circumstances there's

the attitude well, that's always the way we've done it. That kind of
scenario. Are there certain steps that you take. Well, that's just always the
way we've done it so we do it that way without actually having it on paper
that is what we do.
MR. LYONS:
No. We pretty much follow the manual.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
Should be. Well, it should be.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright.
MR. LYONS:
I don't do it on a day-to-day basis, but....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, in your position you've obviously direct a lot of things.
MR. LYONS:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
As the director.
MR. LYONS:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You directing those things.
MR. LYONS:
I mean it's important for consistency.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
To be able to follow processes like that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What would you say then your overall involvement was with the selecting
of the 53 down to the 10.
MR. LYONS:
Absolutely nothing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You had no involvement in that?
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MR. LYONS:
No involvement.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright. In January of 2012 there was a memo and I was just referring to
the assessment done by Peggy. Memo to Procurement Services from
Public Works about the 53 down to the 10.
MR. LYONS:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You're aware of that memo?
MR. LYONS:
Is it signed by me? I can't remember. I mean off the top of my head I don't
know.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, is that the standard to use a memo like that for communication?
MR. LYONS:
Could be a memo or email.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
Yeah. Yeah, without seeing the memo, I mean I sign a lot of documents,
so it was probably once the list is short listed, it most likely came from...
may have came from the chair of the committee back through, you know,
the rank and file to get back to Procurement to say we're ready to move
ahead.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Of those 10 that were there, are you aware of any contracts that they were
involved in? Any general contracts that they were involved in?
MR. LYONS:
At that time, no. I know that Parsons Brinckerhoff, for example, has a
contract, a separate design contract on at least one other project in the
county; a transportation project.
CPL. HOLLIS:
How often have you worked with Parsons on procurement contracts?
MR. LYONS:
Directly, this would've been my first involvement with them with Go

Hillsborough.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. With Go Hillsborough.
MR. LYONS:
Yeah.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
So the current one, they're doing some redesign. That was after Go
Hillsborough?
MR. LYONS:
No. It was a project that's been on the shelf for a while, so I think they're
actually engineers of record on that one; Citrus Park Drive, which is a
capital project that's not fully funded. And they may be the engineer of
record on one of the Bruce B. Downs segments that's under construction.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. In May 2013 is when the TED group, which is now known as the
PLG, was established.
MR. LYONS:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What role did you serve in that if any?
MR. LYONS:
We provided support. Our department provided support because, you

know, it started out as what our transportation needs are, so our role was
providing technical support, our familiarity with our unfunded capital
program in transportation. Kind of with that regard.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. What was your understanding of why that group was established?
MR. LYONS:
So a couple things to my understanding. One is that we have a need to

fund transportation projects. We have a big backlog of work that needs to
be done and there's not a funding source for it. It was also my
understanding was to tie economic development, so to try to create jobs in
the county, which would also increase the tax base, which potentially
could fund some of these projects as well.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Was it the role of that group too to... because of the failed
referendum in 2010, this was kind of a new shot out at it, but kind of taking
a different perspective by getting more, I guess, involvement with the
community?
MR. LYONS:
I don't know at that point in time that that's the direction it was necessarily
going.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MR. LYONS:
I think there was a lot of conversations between the Policy Leadership

Group of you know, their wants and desires, what they believe are visions
for the community.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Bob Clifford, who now works for Parsons had worked in the county
prior to my understanding, right?
MR. LYONS:
He came from TBARTA.
CPL. HOLLIS:
TBARTA. Okay.
MR. LYONS:
TBARTA.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So what relationship do you all with TBARTA?
MR. LYONS:
I believe the county may contribute money for license funding to them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
I've never had any direct involvement with them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Direct involvement with him?
MR. LYONS:
With him or TBARTA.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
In 2014.... Or I guess... do you..would you attend the board meetings?
MR. LYONS:
The TBARTA board meetings?
CPL. HOLLIS:
No, no. The PLG.
MR. LYONS:
Policy Leadership Group, I attended most of them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
Yeah.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Were you at a table or were you in the audience?
MR. LYONS:
In the audience.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Were there times when would ask questions of you and you'd have
to speak or...?
MR. LYONS:
Not of me.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So in August 2014, the board directs Mike Merrill to move forward with
getting somebody with experience from the private sector.
MR. LYONS:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What role did you have in that?
MR. LYONS:
So the takeaway from that, and I think there was a subsequent follow-up
meeting with Mike, after that was that we needed somebody with
experience and we needed to move quickly and so that was kind of the
direction we went on.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
And then we were kind of, you know, we're all big boys and girls and we
have experience and so at that point, you know, this is our area of
expertise and so we were given general direction to move ahead.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But that was your... Mike was basically giving it to you to kind of....
MR. LYONS:
Myself and Mike Williams. Mike works for me; Mike Williams does, and he
had had some involvement. He was providing technical support to the
Policy Leadership Group through Mike Merrill and so I was kind of on the
fringe. I wasn't directly involved in the day to day stuff.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So where did you first start once you were told we need to move
quickly and need somebody with experience?
MR. LYONS:
So I believe... and I'm trying to recall this, was the discussion was that we
could go out for a standalone procurement or we could look at the option
of using one of our general civil contracts if we had somebody that had
that experience.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So how did you go about that process?
MR. LYONS:
So we knew the procurement process to go out for standalone contract

would have taken many months and so I don't believe that that was an
option at that point.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And that would have required... because who you had... the procurement
you did with the 53 down to the 10 would have been a similar process?
MR. LYONS:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So you're basically sending out a questionnaire? Is that...?
MR. LYONS:
We'd put out a... through procurement, we'd put out a request for
professional services and... with the scope in it and so we would have
gone through that process. Firms would've submitted based on the criteria
and they would've been shortlisted, negotiated, all that. It would have
been a lengthy process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And like you said, the average was around 6 months of...?
MR. LYONS:
6 months. Fast, I think'd probably be more 9 to 10 months realistically.
CPL. HOLLIS:
When you said that it was something that you all had to move on quickly,
what was the expediency?
MR. LYONS:
So I think if you go back to those meeting minutes or the transcripts from

that meeting, I think a lot of the Policy Leadership Group said, you know,
we've been talking about this for a long time. We need to move.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
And it wasn't somebody pointing the finger and saying go do this. I think it
was the... it was very clear to me that we needed to move quickly.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So you pretty much ruled out the procurement side of things
because of the time frame.
MR. LYONS:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
That was something you needed to move. So then you directed your
attention to the 10 you already had under contract?
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MR. LYONS:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So how'd you go about eliminating?
MR. LYONS:
So within the 10, the Policy Leadership Group spoke to.... And we've
never done this before.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
So I mean it was a....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Now when you say you've never done this, what do you mean
specifically?
MR. LYONS:
We've never... the Policy Leadership Group was a new concept when it
was formed and I think it was, you know, I can't speak to it specifically. My
interpretation was because of the failed referendum in 2010, that they
wanted to go in a different direction. Mike and the Policy Leadership
Group wanted to go in a direction to be successful, so we wanted to bring
in a firm that had that experience to coordinate between the municipalities
and kind of tell us how they would do that. That was really the first step.
And so we looked at our list that said firms with national exposure and I
don't recall all 10 firms on the list, but we have a company on there like
Bayside Engineering. A local firm. They're nationally exposed. So we
looked at the list and we basically said HNTB, Parsons Brinckerhoff,
Reynolds, Smith & Hills, and....
CPL. HOLLIS:
HDR?
MR. LYONS:
HDR. Exactly. And so we called them up and said we've been given this
general guidance to do something. We need you to help us put together.
You know, what's your experience and kind of formulate a general scope
of services in doing that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And with the 10, were there certain ones you could say okay, that's a local
firm so they're not even going to....
MR. LYONS:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Entertain our time right now because they're local.
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MR. LYONS:
Yep. And keep in mind, we have 10 contracts in place.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. LYONS:
So it's not like we're going through a procurement process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. Right.
MR. LYONS:
You know, we have the flexibility to pick from this list of consultants.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. The four you named, were there other ones that you all reached out
to?
MR. LYONS:
No. Those are the only four that we reached out to to the best of my
recollection.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And who was part of that process?
MR. LYONS:
So it was myself, Mike Williams, and Larry Scully. We had some phone
conferences. Just kind of talking about the approach and what some of
the qualifications would be.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Were there times where you would've talked to Larry one on one or Mike
one on one or was it always the three of you?
MR. LYONS:
I'm sure there was conversations between myself and Mike. I think for the
most part when Larry was involved, it was probably a conference call.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because I understand Larry's in Washington, DC?
MR. LYONS:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Were there times when you all met in person?
MR. LYONS:
We have met with Larry on some other projects prior to that. I don't recall
meeting specifically on this project.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Who decided to bring Larry Scully on and why was he brought on?
MR. LYONS:
Mr. Merrill.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you know why he was brought on?
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MR. LYONS:
Larry had been involved in several projects. I believe at that time he was a
sub-consultant to a company called PRAG; Public Resources.... I can't
remember the title. He was a consultant to them and I think he'd work on
numerous projects around the county.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So his expertise... and having talking to him because of the capital side,
the financial side of things.
MR. LYONS:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
That was kind of his expertise there.
MR. LYONS:
That, his financial exposure. He's worked on some bigger projects;

transportation type projects. Been involved in those to the best of my
knowledge. You know, experienced guy.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And who did you specifically reach out to of those four?
MR. LYONS:
So we kind of split the group up. Mike Williams knows Jim Drapp over at
HNTB. I knew Matt Ryan from HDR. Mike knew somebody at Reynolds,
Smith & Hills. And... my brain.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You said HNTB. Parsons?
MR. LYONS:
Yeah. And I didn't know anybody at Parsons and so I think Larry was kind
of looking at Parsons as well.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Are you aware.... Because my understanding was that you all
reached out to all 10.
MR. LYONS:
No, I think we screened those.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You screened them.
MR. LYONS:
I think we screened them based on our experience with them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And the fact that they were local?
MR. LYONS:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Were there any....
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MR. LYONS:
Some were local. Some may have been national, but maybe not at that
level.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But the screening that you were looking was just based on, I guess,
the information they had filled out or...?
MR. LYONS:
Well, they submitted.... We had phone conversations with them basically

and then some of them then submitted some information to us. HDR sent
us over. They put together a little PowerPoint talking about their
experience. I believe HNTB did something similar to that. My recollection.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And with Reynolds, my understanding is they....
MR. LYONS:
I believe they sent an email that said something to the effect that we really
haven't worked on this type of project before.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So that eliminated.... They weren't interested in it, so it left you with the
three.
MR. LYONS:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So how did you narrow it down?
MR. LYONS:
So HDR I believe in the conversation with Matt Ryan. Matt had said some
information to us pretty quickly after we had a phone conversation and
they said they were going to follow it up with some more specific
information. They never did. And so they kind of fell off the radar screen at
that point. Mike Williams had spoke to Jim Drapp over at HNTB and I
believe Larry had spoke with some other folks at Parsons in one of their
other offices and I believe.... I can't remember who we spoke to
specifically at Parsons, but HNTB at that point in time was still providing
technical support to the Go Hills..Greenlight Pinellas effort.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. LYONS:
And we kind of said eh, you know, there's a lot of controversy going on
there. Let's don't mix that up.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
So we kind of eliminated them and got to Parsons.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, now and HDR you had said had sent over some stuff, but then then
there was some follow-up that they were going to do?
MR. LYONS:
They told us they were going to send some follow-up information and it
never came.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I had gotten some emails, in speaking with Matt, and it looked like
he had spoken to you. Then Larry Scully then reached out to him as well.
MR. LYONS:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And the following day had sent over....
MR. LYONS:
Yeah. It was like a little PowerPoint presentation; couple pages.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. Yeah. There was a few pages on there. What was more information
that you all were needing from them?
MR. LYONS:
Well, he alluded that he was going to send us more specific information

after we received it. I think we talked with him and said, hey, you know,
send us some more specific type information and it never came.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Would that have been on a phone call or email?
MR. LYONS:
When I spoke with him and they.... Follow-up information we expected in

writing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What other roles did HDR have with the county, other projects?
MR. LYONS:
HDR obviously was on the general civil contract that we had. I know that
they were engineer of record on the South County Waste Water Treatment
Plant project. Those are the only contracts that I'm aware of.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
Off the top of my head.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Was there anything that they had done in those previous ones that was a
concern for using them on this project?
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MR. LYONS:
Well, I know that... because I was I in the utilizes department for about 18
months and that was like in spring of 2012 through September 2015 I
think and we were in the middle of construction at South County Plant and
I think we were having some responsiveness issues with their construction
oversight.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
I didn't manage that day to day. I know there's project managers.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, I know that Sandy Murman has not made it a secret that she doesn't
care for HDR with the...reservoir.
MR. LYONS:
That was a separate... that wasn't a county project. That was a contract I
believe that HDR had with Tampa Bay Water.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So you all were not involved in any of that?
MR. LYONS:
No. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I'm just pulling the emails that I had gotten with Matt Ryan.
MR. LYONS:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you mind if I swing over to you here? Just trying to get the dates here.
So this is August 22nd from you that Matt, I have asked Larry Scully to
contact you on Monday to gather information we discussed. John. You all
kind of exchanged. And then this looks like that. The day is August 25th. I
spoke to Larry Scully this morning. I've held an internal meeting today and
wanted to let you know that we have successfully led and are actually
participating and kind of give some documents.
MR. LYONS:
Yep. Yep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Basically. So this is a follow-up looks like from Matt to you and Larry that
afternoon.
MR. LYONS:
I have the 2-page summary.
CPL. HOLLIS:
The 2-page summary.
MR. LYONS:
Yeah.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
So from that 2-page summary, there was more information that you
needed?
MR. LYONS:
So I think we talked with him. My recollection was that I spoke with Matt
after that, so they looked at it and just had a general conversation and he
indicated they were going to send more information.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. This... I think this is.... This is 3:17. This says 3:18. It looks to be the
same email.
MR. LYONS:
Yeah. He might have sent it twice.
CPL. HOLLIS:
May have sent it twice.
MR. LYONS:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And then this is another one which he looks like he sends to his folks.
MR. LYONS:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Trying to.... Just basically about he potentially helping them on this

transportation referendum in 2016.
MR. LYONS:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
We are way out front on this one and I will keep you apprised if we make it
for the final selection.
MR. LYONS:
Okay. First time I've seen that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Mentions leaving you a voice mail. Larry Scully. Thanks for the support.
And then this is September 2nd and Good morning. This is to all of his
employees and he says I've spoke with John Lyons, Hillsborough County
Public Works Director, about the county transportation referendum
support. John Lyons lamented that the county only has $5 million for
resurfacing in next year's budget. First, thank you for your support and
help us prepare a solid package. We looked good and open some eyes in
the county. Second, the county has chosen Parsons Brinckerhoff, PB, to
help them prepare their transportation referendum priorities, messages, et
cetera. John stated the county's $75 million South County Waste Water
Treatment Plant. WWTP?
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MR. LYONS:
Yep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Expansion project where we were the designer and currently providing

construction and administrative services gave him quote pause in
selecting HDR and that quote there are still challenges in the HDR shop
end quote. Can you kind of touch on that a little bit.
MR. LYONS:
Yeah. So it kind of go back where I mentioned was that when I was in the
utilities department as department director over there, that project was
under construction for some time. There's definitely some challenges with
scheduling. There's challenges of the quality of work for the contractor.
HDR was engineer of record, so that means they design the project and
they had oversight on the project as well to make sure it was constructed
as they designed it. There was some challenges there. We were having
some quality issues with it. HDR came back to us on more than one
occasion asking for supplemental agreements or changes to their
contract. An example of that is... and I mean this is not... it's just a fact. It's
not disparaging them or anything, is that here's a 60 something million
dollar plant construction and there's these things they call shop drawings.
So you know, somebody gives you a piece of equipment, they have to
provide a shop drawing to the engineers, the contractor does for them to
review to make sure that, you know, it's right the type of stairs they're
putting in and it complies with what the design documents are. It's the right
type control panel. My recollection, HDR and their original proposal came
back to us and said hey, we need a lot more money for shop drawing
review and we went back and my conversation I think with the engineering
staff was over there. Well, they priced us out that they would do shop
drawing review and they're coming back and saying well, we only put, you
know, we only put this amount of money into it and my question back was
why would we give them more money. They designed the plant. They
should have an expectation of what number of shop drawings that would
come in and I think they undershot the mark significantly. And so I think
there was a lot of negotiation that went on at that point in time and even
after I came back to Public Works to that effect, so there was some, I'm
going to say performance issues on that particular contract.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
Which kind of gave me that pause of thought.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And ultimately Parsons was chosen.
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MR. LYONS:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Why did you all chose them?
MR. LYONS:
They seemed to have the experience. And think about it this way, too, was
that we didn't go all in it on this work order. We came back and because
we wanted the consultant that was chosen to come back in October to the
Policy Leadership Group and talk about their experience with the Policy
Leadership Group; talk about what their approach would be moving
forward and so that's why the work order, the initial work order was only
written for about $50,000.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. $53,000.
MR. LYONS:
So it was put out there in front of the Policy Leadership Group for them to
say here we are. This is our experience. This is how we do this because
we didn't have the experience to do it, so we needed someone with
experience to help us guide us in putting some of the scope of services
together.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Now in deciding on Parsons, who actually made that final decision?
I mean I know it was approved by the board in October.
MR. LYONS:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But when you all, you and Mike and Larry were in discussions, you felt
that this was...?
MR. LYONS:
So, I think we discussed it and said, you know, this is the firm to move
forward with at this point and so we needed to write a work order, tell them
to get the work going.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you go to Mike Merrill? Did you all have a meeting and kind of hey,
this is who we think should do it or can you kind of recall that?
MR. LYONS:
I don't recall that we did or didn't at that point.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
Quite honestly.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
I mean Mike recalls a meeting.
MR. LYONS:
We may have had a discussion with him and say this is what our
recommendation is. I can't recall that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So is that pretty standard. Hey, this is what our recommendation is?
MR. LYONS:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No.
MR. LYONS:
No. We would do that internally. I mean this is a... those work orders are
an administrative process at my level typically.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Was there anybody overseeing... because I know you said you
report to Lucia.
MR. LYONS:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Was she overseeing this decision making process?
MR. LYONS:
I don't know that she was overseeing the process. I think she was involved
in conversations about it. You know, again, it goes back to we've never
done this before and so we were making sure we had conversations and
everybody's opinions and comments kind of came to the table in those
conversations.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. My understanding is you all did have some kind of meeting with
Mike and that you presented, you had this kind of... two names.
MR. LYONS:
Yeah. Yeah. I think so.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you remember, do you kind of remember that?
MR. LYONS:
Not specifically, but I know we did have a meeting with Mike before we
moved forward with the final decision.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Was Mike really the one that kind of made the final decision, but based on
your recommendation?
MR. LYONS:
I don't know. I mean I wouldn't characterize it that way.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
I think that he would hang his hat on our decision, you know, Our
recommendations.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, yeah. I mean, because he's obviously seeking you all to make that
decision.
MR. LYONS:
Yeah. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And then, but you know as with the way things work, you have you person
that makes the decisions relying on people below him to kind of guide him
in that.
MR. LYONS:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And that's what it appears to have been done.
MR. LYONS:
So if I'm trying to recall this, I think as we developed this, we got to

Parsons and I think we all had a meeting. We had talked with Mike and I
think we actually had a meeting out at Parsons.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. LYONS:
With Mike and some other folks in the room and that was to talk about the
whole process to develop. That was before the work order was actually
written.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But the Direct Select memo had already been....
MR. LYONS:
I believe so. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Had already been established. So with that Direct Select, is that in your
manual as a standard practice?
MR. LYONS:
There is and I shared that with Bill Blend as well.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Yes.
MR. LYONS:
He has a copy of that process and we talked through that.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Very good. But even that meeting before you sat down with Parsons, my
understanding there was a meeting when they okay... Parsons is who
we're going to go with.
MR. LYONS:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Were you influenced in choosing Parsons by anybody?
MR. LYONS:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Anybody within the county?
MR. LYONS:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Any commissioners?
MR. LYONS:
Nope.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Anybody outside of the county?
MR. LYONS:
Absolutely not.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And obviously, Beth Leytham is a person that has been brought out in this
entire process. When did you first meet her?
MR. LYONS:
It was at Parsons and I don't recall specifically when she was in the room.
We were having some general discussions and it... I don't know when that
happened exactly.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Was that that initial meeting with Parsons after you all had selected them,
but before really they... the first work order as you said.
MR. LYONS:
I don't recall specifically quite honestly.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But prior to the PLG meeting and going through all that, had you
met her before?
MR. LYONS:
No. I think the first time I'd ever met her was at Parsons after the Direct
Select memo had been issued and we started having some of those initial
meetings. I don't recall if she was in the room prior to the issuance of the
work order or not quite honestly. I just don't recall.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Had you ever heard her name prior to that?
MR. LYONS:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. In what capacity?
MR. LYONS:
I think that she's a communication specialist. It was just I've heard her
name. I think that she's been in the board meetings at some point in time.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Had you been involved in any projects with her; even if you hadn't
met her, but just involved in any projects?
MR. LYONS:
Not that I'm aware of. I think she may be a communications consultant to
Newland, who works.... I'm trying to recall. She has been in a different
meeting. I don't recall when it was. We're working with the developer on
expanding Bell Shoals Road; Newland Communities, and she works for
them and I know that we've had some meetings where she was present in
the room as far as public outreach type of stuff for that project and it's one
of our capital... it's in our capital program. It's a joint project with us and
the developer. She was in the room, but I don't recall when those
meetings took place.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
I don't know if it was going on simultaneously with the Go Hillsborough

efforts after the Parsons work order had been signed or not quite honestly.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And again, there was nobody.... I mean you've already said no... that
influenced your decision.
MR. LYONS:
No. Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Any ethical issues that you're aware of?
MR. LYONS:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Within this project or the whole process how it had occurred?
MR. LYONS:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MR. LYONS:
And just to make a statement.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. LYONS:
I have two professional licenses; I have a professional surveying and

mapper and professional engineer. I have a code of ethics that I live by. I
have, you know, it's my life and it's my profession and you know, I take it
very seriously.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. Do you mind if they have any questions?
MR. LYONS:
No. Absolutely.
DET. PORTALATIN:
I know you mentioned nobody influenced you. Did anybody in your opinion
try to maybe infer who might be better than somebody else or try to reach
out, maybe a text or email; any other medium to say hey, maybe go this
route or I don't think they're quite the right people for it or anything like that
that you can recall?
MR. LYONS:
No. I mean, probably the only conversations who we thought was the
better firm would have been the conversations between myself, Mike
Williams, and Larry Scully.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Okay. And those conversations that you just mentioned, they were
primarily phone, not email or text medium?
MR. LYONS:
Yes. Yeah.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
I don't think there any text messages of substance. I mean I don't

communicate that way for anything.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
I'd rather talk face to face. I'm old school. Sorry.
DET. PORTALATIN:
I'm the same way.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
And just... can I piggyback on that? Since you all were looking at the 10
initially, was that information given to the commissioners that we're looking
at these 10?
MR. LYONS:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Was that information stayed within at least you, Mike, and Larry and you
know Mike, obviously Mike Merrill knew and...?
MR. LYONS:
I think Lucia knew and Mike Merrill knew that we had these 10
consultants on board to what extent that we were going to.... And I think
we had a conversation that you know we kind of whittled the list down
based on national exposure and experience and I think that was... they
were very general conversations. There was no....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
You know, it's our world. It's our, you know, it's what we do everyday.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. LYONS:
And so I think they have a pretty good trust factor in us to make those
decisions and recommendations.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But it wasn't anything... you all sent out a memo to the commissioners,
hey, this is who we're looking at?
MR. LYONS:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
To possibly where somebody could influence...?
MR. LYONS:
No. Because it goes back to we have a process, we follow that process.

We're not going to go down some other path because of this. It, I mean to
us it was a very straightforward process to move ahead.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Obviously, it's always easy to think back, you know, if we could change. Is
there anything that you all would have changed with the process giving
what's going on now?
MR. LYONS:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You would have done the same thing?
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MR. LYONS:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
I don't think there's anything flawed with the process, like there's anything
flawed with what's happened and you know, from our aspect. You know,
Parsons has provided some really good support to us on this project and
others.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
I mean all of our consultants go through, there should be after every work
order or contract, there's periodic consultant review processes that go
through. They get filed with procurement because it factors in to part of
their scoring when it goes through another process. You know, they look at
things such as how much work have they had for the county. You know,
their scoring on consultant performance reviews basically and all that. So
it's important to them. It's important to us that stuff happens. I mean, we're
kind of nerdy in that way.
CPL. HOLLIS:
By you're following the processes that you all have in place?
MR. LYONS:
Yeah. And I mean we've had a... you know, and I think some of that was
validated. There was an audit of the CIP a couple years ago, a couple
three years ago and the findings weren't within.... I mean, there was 7 or 8
findings, but none of them with regard to how we manage day to day
work.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Thank you.
MR. LYONS:
I think it's passed the smell test on several occasions quite honestly.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you have something?
DET. CLARK:
You said that this process was new to you and everybody not using this
selection, this particular selection process. Was it more efficient in the long
run?
MR. LYONS:
I mean as far as what was...?
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DET. CLARK:
Well, you said that... you gave a timeline saying that if you would have
gone through the regular process that it would not have met the goal.
MR. LYONS:
Yes.
DET. CLARK:
Generally, it goes from 6 to 9 months.
MR. LYONS:
Yes.
DET. CLARK:
Correct? Was this process more efficient?
MR. LYONS:
Oh, absolutely.
DET. CLARK:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
And so we have these continuing contracts just for that ability to do so.
You know, it gives us flexibility to be a little bit nimble because we have
smaller projects that we can go directly and write work orders to those
consultants. You could imagine, the consulting community most likely
would start complaining too if for every little projects that we had we went
through this process and they had prepared proposals and somebody had
to review them. You know, if we did it for every single project that we had,
you know, we'd be putting out, you know, a hundred requests for
professional services. They'd have to put together hundreds of proposals
to submit. Somebody's going to have to review all that stuff and it just be
kind of, you know, a very cumbersome, slow process quite honestly.
DET. CLARK:
And just how long did the process take this time with this?
MR. LYONS:
For the selection process to...?
DET. CLARK:
From 10 down to Parsons, how long did it take approximately?
MR. LYONS:
I think we narrowed it down I think about a week and a half or two

because with the Direct Select memo was written on like September 5th or
something.
DET. CLARK:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
And so I think we narrowed it down probably the week before that.
DET. CLARK:
So that's a significant cut in time and effort there.
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MR. LYONS:
Absolutely. Absolutely.
DET. CLARK:
And if the older, lengthier process would have taken place, do you think
that you would have come down to the same conclusion as Parsons? If
all....
MR. LYONS:
Oh, I couldn't say that because it's going to.... At that point when it's an
independent process, every consultant would submit a proposal.
DET. CLARK:
Right, sir.
MR. LYONS:
And those proposals have to stand on their own.
DET. CLARK:
So it's not apples to apples.
MR. LYONS:
No. It wouldn't be apples to apples necessarily because you would have a

separate process. They would have... I mean you had a separate process
that would have included all that information. Under the continuing
contracts, you've already gone through that, so you basically said all these
consultants in general are equally qualified to do the work. Some may be
more qualified. We Direct Select... and if I bore you guys to tears, let me
know. But there's a couple of reasons we would use Direct Select. One is
somebody has experience in doing something. Another would be for
professional continuity. So say that, you know, Smith Engineering worked
on a previous project and we needed to come in and make some changes
to that project. You know, you want continuity of that professional from a
liability standpoint. The state statute for engineering says that if I hire
Smith Engineering to do the original work and then I go to Jones
Engineering to update it, Jones Engineering has to recreate all that design
work behind it. They just can't sign and seal it and take it as their own
without doing it. There's a specific spelled out process that says it's... I
forget what they call it, but it's basically taking on the work of others. You
know, I as a professional would have to recreate all those design
calculations and everything else to say before I put my stamp on it and
said I own this work now. And there's been folks that have had their
license taken away because they've rubber stamped work and done
things like that. So there's a... it's a pretty well spelled out process.
DET. CLARK:
And my last question would be about the manual itself. Is there any way
you can provide us that?
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MR. LYONS:
Absolutely.
DET. CLARK:
Is that....
MR. LYONS:
Bill Blend has an electronic copy of it.
DET. CLARK:
That's what my question was was it digitized at all.
MR. LYONS:
Yeah. Yeah. We sent him a pdf. It's the Project Delivery Manual. So he
has a copy. I can provide you all with another copy.
CPL. HOLLIS:
That's fine. I can reach out to him.
MR. LYONS:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
That's fine. Thank you.
DET. CLARK:
That's it. Thank you.
MR. LYONS:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I guess just your opinion, obviously your expertise opinion that Parsons
was the right company for the project.
MR. LYONS:
Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean I have no second guessing on it. You know,

I mean if we.... Like I said, if we'd gone through the other process, I don't
know who would be sitting and talking with. I think that they've met
everything that we've asked for. I mean, we've had a lot of public
outreach.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. LYONS:
And comment back from the public.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
I think there's been a lot of good interaction through this whole process.
So I mean, I'm not....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Just a couple final things, the big allegation is that Beth Leytham had the
influence to have Parsons chosen primarily because she worked for
Parsons. Are you aware of any influence that she had?
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Case No: 2015-691857
MR. LYONS:
Absolutely not, because I mean, my perspective is that the conversations

between Mike Williams, a professional engineer, Larry Scully I don't
believe is a professional engineer in Florida, but he's an engineer, he's
professional in other states. I think that we did a very good job of
screening these candidates. Ultimately, that Direct Select memo was
signed by me not under the influence of anybody to select Parsons. We
wrote the work order. We negotiated in good faith. We set, you know,
Parsons stood up in front of the Policy Leadership Group and presented
their credentials and talked about their methodology and nobody objected
at that point. So there was no influence on me and you know, quite
honestly, I'm offended that somebody said that process has been
influenced because it took place within this department.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I had a question. Hold on. I can't think of it now.
MR. LYONS:
Okay.
DET. CLARK:
My last one will be, I know I said my last one already. Do an addendum.
Once the process is done and selected and you know, you've done your
work, is there a final report or any type of a written account of the
selection process that...?
MR. LYONS:
Nothing other than the Direct Select memo.
DET. CLARK:
Yeah. And at the end of the process we selected this.
MR. LYONS:
Yeah.
DET. CLARK:
But nothing saying that here's all the materials that came in. We collected
all.... Here's all the things we requested and it's finalized and then we do a
report or synopses.
MR. LYONS:
Oh, you mean as far as the whole work order process?
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MR. LYONS:
Yeah. They've provided us with... you know, and obviously they, I believe
in the contract we have a records retention part of the contract with them
under the general civil contract; the umbrella. So they have to retain all
their work for some period of time. I don't know what it is off the top of my
head, but they will provide us either spreadsheets of information. It could
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be GIS maps. They did provide a report a couple of months ago back to
the Policy Leadership Group that had the recommendations in it. I think at
that point in time the Policy Leadership Group said go out and do more,
which was the second work order that was written and the Direct Select
memo from Mr. Merrill went through that process. And so, ultimately
they're going to provide us a final report I believe for the Policy Leadership
Group meeting next week. So they're working on that right now.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Now I remember my questions were dealing with the other work orders.
The first work order, the 53,000, then it jumped up a matter of 400 and....
MR. LYONS:
53 and then it was revised just under the $500,000 limit, which was more
meetings and you know, that's kind of the.... October 21st, my
characterization is the Policy Leadership Board said go forth and meet
with the public. Start putting all this information together. Parsons
generated a revised scope of services. We processed that. We went forth
and did it. Came back to a few more meetings of the Policy Leadership
Group. Keep going. Go forth. Do more. I think Mr. Merrill laid out the
process on the October 21st, 14 meeting that you know, this could cost as
much as $900,000 to do this work and you know, we're doing the work for
the cities as well. Part of that overall scope covered HART and 3
municipalities as well. And so, then we went through that whole process. I
mean, we followed the route we've always done.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And you mentioned the 500,000, so if it's over the 500 you have to get
approval to go above that amount?
MR. LYONS:
So the contract, the umbrella contract limitation is a $500,000 work order,

so effectively when we go over that amount we have to go back to the
board to get authorization to do that and that's what we did in January of
'15.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. LYONS:
And we've done that on other projects as well.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Just pulling money from one area to support...?
MR. LYONS:
Well, it's funding I think the January... the first when there was actually a
budget amendment that was attached to that which funded, most of the
money originally came out of my operating budget and so all it does is
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give us contract capacity. It's kind of like putting more credit on your credit
card and then the funding would come from other identified sources.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Alright, sir. Any final statement you want to make?
MR. LYONS:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Any questions that you have for us?
MR. LYONS:
Just be happy to get all this over with and we have work to do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. If we need to approach you at a later time, is that okay with you?
MR. LYONS:
Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. LYONS:
Absolutely. I'm here almost all the time seems like.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright, sir. So I'll stop the recording.
MR. LYONS:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
At 10:57 a.m.
End of interview.
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Attachment Description: JOHN THOMAS FESLER INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:
For: 4602

2015-691857
Corporal Charles Hollis, ABN 5603, interviews, John Thomas Fesler, Director of
the Management Budget Department, in the presence of Detective Trent Clark,
ABN 173949, and Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222593.
CPL. HOLLIS:

interview being conducted today is in reference to the Hillsborough County
Sheriff's Office Go Hillsborough investigation under case number 15691857, here on the 26th floor of the county building. Also present for the
interview, sir, if you would state your full name, please.
MR. FESLER:
It's John Thomas Fesler.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And you spell the last name?
MR. FESLER:
It's F as in Frank, e-s-l-e-r.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And you're aware our conversation is being recorded, sir?
MR. FESLER:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. FESLER:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. And also present?
DET. CLARK:
DET. PORTALATIN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
And may I call you Tom?
MR. FESLER:
Yes.
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Case No: 2015-691857
Re: Interview of John Thomas Fesler
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. Would you raise your right hand, sir? Do you swear and affirm
the information you will provide today will be the truth, the whole truth, and
MR. FESLER:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. And just by way of introduction, what is your title here at the
county?
MR. FESLER:
I'm the Director of the Management Budget Department.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And how long have you been that title?
MR. FESLER:
I believe it was about March, since March of 2012. That's when I became
director.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And prior to that, what was your...? Did you work here at the
county?
MR. FESLER:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What was your role?
MR. FESLER:
I was the... I was a director or I was a manager over the operating side of
the budget in the Business and Support Services Department, which I
guess the county has gone through some reorganization. So we went
from the Management Budget Department and then it was consolidated
into the Business and Support Services Department, which was bringing
together the procurement function and the budget function within the
county.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. FESLER:
And then within the past year, we've broken it back apart and we have a
separate Procurement Services Department and Management Budget
Department.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What was the reason for breaking it back apart?
MR. FESLER:
Well, originally we had the Procurement Services Department and there

was a director and that director retired. At that time, I went in as the
interim Procurement Services Director and that was January 1st of 2010.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. FESLER:
And then I served in that role for a while and then eventually it was
determined we would have a Consolidated Business and Support
Services Department and I became the director over that department,
which encompasses both of those functions.
CPL. HOLLIS:
How long have you been employed by Hillsborough County?
MR. FESLER:
I think it's been since February of 2002.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. FESLER:
So almost 14 years.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So in January of 2010 when you kind of became the intern procurement

director, did you have any experience with procurement?
MR. FESLER:
Not other than the experience I had just being within a department and
using the procurement office. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Were there any people that you kind of relied on to kind of help you
along the way?
MR. FESLER:
Yes. I did. There were.... When I went in as an interim, I had a very strong
staff down there, so it would've been, there would've two basically highlevel managers down there that I relied on, Jan Ardo and Lynn Fillman.
And then as you know, we've got a division director down there now, John
Hollingshead.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. FESLER:
He worked for Jan in the department when I went in there and since he's
been elevated, so both Jan and Lynn have since retired and John, I
promoted John up to division director within the department. I relied on
John heavily. He's got the procurement background and basically he
would kind of take care of most of the day to day. I become involved more
significantly when we would start to have issues with any given
procurement. If we have protests going on, I would take a more active
role. You know, I would take care of all the administrative functions in the
department, but I did rely heavily on my managers down there.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. Okay. Was there also any kind of manual or training that you
received?
MR. FESLER:
Sure. We have a very extensive procurement manual and so, you know,
my first thing, you know, first thing I did when I got down there was to
familiarize myself with the procurement manual and the processes and a
little more detail than I was familiar with when I was just at the department
level.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. In January.... I'm sorry. I guess it would be May 2011.The

procurement process where they had the 53 narrowed down to the 10?
MR. FESLER:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you remember that process there?
MR. FESLER:
No. Because again, when I knew that I was going to speaking to someone
related to the Go Hillsborough piece of it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. FESLER:
That's when I asked John to give me the files. And I took those home over
the weekend, one weekend and kind of familiarized myself with that
particular procurement. But again, basically, I wasn't necessarily at the
director level involved in the kind of the day to day procurement activities,
so you know, again, I had to familiarize myself with that. At the time that
we did that, it was a routine CCNA procurement.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. FESLER:
So we would have had staff that would have conducted the process. They
would have, you know, gone through, you know, coordinated the
evaluation committee meetings, the phone interviews that were done. You
know, the procurement office typically has about over 200 procurements a
year that go to our board for approval, so you know, I as the director am
not going to be involved in the routine procurements that go to the board. I
present those to the board. I presented those to the board when it was
time to do an award and at that time, I'd familiarized myself with, you
know, make sure there were no issues with that particular procurement.
But then I'd present it to the board, they'd approve it, and that one at that
time was just another routine CCNA procurement from my standpoint.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So very routine.
MR. FESLER:
Very routine.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What's the average time frame on procurement? Especially that size when
you're considering 50, you know at the time 53.
MR. FESLER:
Yeah, if it's a simple procurement and it's, let's say it's for goods. Goods
are typically are going to be much quicker than if you've got one that's
related to services. It could be as short as, you know, if you fast track the
procurement, you could probably do it in a month, you know, month and a
half for a simple procurement, but for something like the CCNA
procurement, those are typically going to take probably a minimum of 6
months. By the time you work with the department to put together,
departments put together a set of specifications on what they're looking
for, then the procurement office builds the document that actually ends up
going out and being advertised and put on the street. Those procurements
end up having to be out on the street for a period of time and then once
the procurement closes and the responses come in, then you have to, you
know, in this particular CCNA procurement you have an evaluation team
that's put together and then they have to give them time to be able to
review all of the and evaluate all of the proposals that come in. In this
case, there were 53 of them. So you know, the obviously would have had
to have some time to...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, sure.
MR. FESLER:
Familiarize themselves with it so that they could then have it, you know,
we would call together an evaluation committee meeting. Then at that
point, you have to give the chairman of the evaluation committee time to
summarize the results of that meeting. Firms are shortlisted and then
there's a follow up, you know, telephone interview with firms. So you know,
this one, you know, I think it ended up being maybe about a 11 month
process. So that was probably a little longer than usual, but probably not
unusual given the number of responses that came in.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And is then that list something that was given to you to present to the
board for approval?
MR. FESLER:
The office would put together a routine agenda item that would go to the
board and then I would actually present the item to the board if they're....
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Depending on the nature of it and then the size of it. Sometimes it goes on
the consent agenda or if it's a larger procurement. Our board basically has
a policy with us and I don't know if it was even in place at the time that if
it's over a million dollars it would be a regular agenda item where we get
up and actually present it to them. I'll be honest; I don't know if that was on
the consent agenda or the regular agenda. I don't remember.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But your name was attached to the actual agenda item.
MR. FESLER:
Yes. Yes. Yeah. My name would have been on the actual, you know, RPS
that went out and then yes, it would have been attached.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Are there any times when you would meet with board members prior to
the meeting?
MR. FESLER:
Again, if there was a procurement.... If they had questions regarding a

given procurement, sometimes the board member might have questions
and I might meet with them. We have, I guess what's in place now and
since my, you know, getting to the procurement office, we didn't have a
protest policy in place. Since then in my time at the office, I identified that
that would have been something that would have been very valuable to
the county, so we put a protest ordinance in place and that created like a
cone of silence so that once a procurement is advertised, there shouldn't
be any communication between, you know, commissioners and any
particular vendors or anybody in the department that's involved in the
procurement. The only communication that should take place would be
between the actual procurement office and vendors if they have questions.
I don't think that was in place at the time that that procurement was done
back in 2011. I'm pretty sure it wasn't.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. FESLER:
But occasionally commissioners would have questions about a given

procurement and I would meet with them, but I don't recall that I had any
discussions with them on this particular procurement.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Any occasion where a commissioner would say hey, what about this
company right here to kind of move them into the running for a particular
job?
MR. FESLER:
I have never experienced that with any commissioner. They would ask
questions about a given procurements at times, about the process and,
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you know, how are we.... And potentially maybe about the specifications or
something like that, but I've never had any given commissioner kind of, at
least in my opinion, try to influence my decision on pushing a given
procurement to any particular vendor.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Would you say that you kind of...? I mean I know the board has to approve
the list, but do you kind of have the say so on who goes on that list?
Because you're basing it based on your folks below you. You're going
through the process, but could you throw somebody's name in there at the
last minute?
MR. FESLER:
Not without it being really.... I mean, that would almost be impossible from
the standpoint of we go through a very detailed evaluation process. An
awards committee. There's... there should have been an awards
committee on that one. I don't know if there was or not, but based on the
process that's set up and based on there's an evaluation committee
memorandum. I think there's a shortlisting. There's an additional
consensus scoring. It would be impossible for me to put somebody else's
name on the list without it being very obvious to all of the players involved
in that procurement that that was occurring.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Now a situation like this particular procurement, you had 53 down to
the 10, but there was some... based on the scoring, there was some ties
and the tiebreaker. How do you all deal with the tie breaking situation
based on points?
MR. FESLER:
Yeah. I'm trying to.... On the CCNA... I don't... in that particular one, again,
I have to go back and familiarize myself on what the tiebreakers are. I
don't recall.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Is that a standard problem, I guess to have?
MR. FESLER:
It's a... there's a standard process and there are procedures set up to be
able to break ties.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. FESLER:
I'll be honest, I couldn't speak to that today.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Any protests that you remember about this particular procurement?
MR. FESLER:
I don't remember any particular protest. No.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. FESLER:
I know there was... when I was reviewing the materials, the only thing I
had a question about, there were two vendors that were.... There was a
top 10 list and there was a short list that was come up with that was....
There were 10 vendors on the list that were I think shortlisted and then
there's, there seemed to be when their actual interviews that took place,
phone interviews that took place, there were 2 vendors that came off that
initial shortlist and 2 other vendors ended up on the shortlist. They were
down near the bottom of the top 10. I think it was either maybe 8 and 10
or 9 and 10 came off and then a couple moved up. Once I saw that, I
asked that question of Scott Stromer, the current Procurement Director
and I know he was going to look into that. But that was the only thing that I
saw that was a little bit unusual that wasn't included in the documentation I
had.
CPL. HOLLIS:
In talking with John about that, he mentioned.... Because there was the
procurement and there was a revised list.
MR. FESLER:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So that list... dealing with the bottom portion.
MR. FESLER:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Obviously we're talking about Parsons. Parsons was in the top. They were
number 4 on that list.
MR. FESLER:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
From what I remember, but you don't know why those ones came off?
MR. FESLER:
I don't know. That's why when I reviewed it over the weekend and I came
back, that was a question I had asked, you know, to Scott and to John. I
said hey, the only thing, you know, I just had a couple of questions and
that was one of them, which was you know the only thing I saw that was a
little bit, the documentation (indiscernible) were those two (indiscernible).
CPL. HOLLIS:
There was a situation.... I'm sorry to interrupt.
MR. FESLER:
No, that's okay.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
But there was a situation where the scores were the same. Would that be
part of the tie breaking process of how to...?
MR. FESLER:
It should be. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. FESLER:
Yep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
That could explain why they were replaced if....
MR. FESLER:
It could and my understanding was there could've been some revisions

when I was speaking with John. He indicated there might have been some
revisions in the minority business disadvantage scoring. I think there were
a couple of revisions there, so I don't know if that had to do why 2 firms
went off and 2 came on.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But again, this particular procurement was just for general
engineering services, correct?
MR. FESLER:
Correct. Yep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. When the transportation for economic development was created,

known as the PLG now, what was your involvement in that if any?
MR. FESLER:
I very, very... almost no involvement up front other than.... Well, I want to

say no involvement. As being in the budget office, there was some
analysis that we would typically be asked to produce at times, but as far
as being actually involved in the meetings, involved in the process, we
were kind of on the outside of that a little bit. As I said, occasionally we'd
put together some financial analysis and review something, but not heavily
involved. This office was not heavily involved up front. More so recently.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, yeah.
MR. FESLER:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, what was your understanding of why the PLG was formed?
MR. FESLER:
Well, I know, you know, I was sitting through board meetings. I know Mike
Merrill's approach is always, he's always thinking about collaboration,
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making sure you get buy in from, you know, all parties and I think the idea
is that since this is really a community wide thing, he wanted to make sure
that there was buy-in from all of the players within the community. And I
say players; those organizations that would ultimately be providing
transportation services, funding transportation services, so my
understanding of why that group was put together was that he wanted to
make sure that at the time, the term that was used, all of the organizations
that had skin in the game were part of this collaboration in the process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Kind of jump forward to August of 2014, which was a PLG meeting.
It had Mike Merrill. They pretty much said hey, Mike, it's time to move
forward and pick an outside firm to help us with this initiative. Somebody
with experience.
MR. FESLER:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Not a public relations firm. Did you attend that meeting?
MR. FESLER:
I did not.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. If you don't attend, do you kind of keep tabs on things that are going
on or...?
MR. FESLER:
I would say occasionally if I knew there was a meeting going on, I didn't
really keep up with those meetings, but if I knew that one of those
meetings was going on and I didn't have another meeting or project I was
working on, sometimes I would turn on the TV and watch some of the
meetings.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Alright.
MR. FESLER:
I try to keep informed on that stuff like that, but again, we weren't really
part of the process, my budget office was not at that point other than
occasionally producing some analysis.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And when the board had directed Mike to move forward in selecting
a firm, were you involved in that process of selecting somebody?
MR. FESLER:
Not at all. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Not at all. Were you contacted about that?
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MR. FESLER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Anybody in your department that would have been.
MR. FESLER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And especially dealing with procurement, because now they've moved to

a Direct Select method.
MR. FESLER:
Right. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did they seek your advice on that or...?
MR. FESLER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Any influence on that at all?
MR. FESLER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you know who was in charge of deciding on who to pick?
MR. FESLER:
Yeah. I wasn't involved in the process, so only kind of after the fact.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. FESLER:
I've become aware of the Direct Select that was done on that through, I
guess the Public Works Department. My understanding would be, it would
Mr. Lyons and the Public Works Department would've probably been the
one responsible for that process. But once the procurement itself was
done back in 2012, I believe, procurement officer really kind of been
outside that process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And is it, is it common then with this procurement where they signed
2-year deals and you could renew them for another two?
MR. FESLER:
That's correct. Yeah. That's where if there was any future involvement by
the procurement office, the procurement office would've helped facilitate
that renewal.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And my understanding is all 10 firms were renewed in June of 2014,

so just before this meeting.
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MR. FESLER:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So do you remember if you all were involved in that process?
MR. FESLER:
I'm sure that the procurement office was involved in helping to do the
renewal, but again, that would've been a very routine renewal.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. FESLER:
Typically what would happen, is the procurement office would notify the
department, hey, you've got this contract that's expiring. Their renewal
terms, what do you want to do and documentation and forms would've
gone to the department for the director to sign off, yes, I want to go ahead
and renew.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And like you said, you weren't involved in the process of the Direct
Select method. Is that something that you've used, the Direct Select? Is
that a common practice?
MR. FESLER:
If I'm being honest, I don't know how common it is.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. FESLER:
I don't know how often that's done.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright. Is something you've ever done before?
MR. FESLER:
I've never done it. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you know an occasion why it would be used?
MR. FESLER:
Well, I think in this case, reviewing the documentation, I mean Mr. Merrill
is given, you know, from the PLG instructions. I, you know, I did review
some of that transcript. Part of the materials I looked at indicated that, you
know, they wanted to make sure that whoever was hired had
transportation experience, that they had had transportation. They have
been part of a successful referendum as it related to that. It may have
been one other thing. They put some very specific criteria out there, so I
mean to me it would've made sense that if you had 10 firms that you
would be, you know, be taking a look at within that... within those group of
firms who had the specific experience that the PLG was looking for.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you understand that there was a time constraint also. There was kind
of....
MR. FESLER:
Yeah. I already understood that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
He had kind of forward move forward with this?
MR. FESLER:
Yeah. And that was... I think that was included in the transcripts. That was
discussed in the transcripts also. I saw at the meeting that yeah, there
were some time constraints and in order to meet those time constraints, it
would have made sense to use an already existing contract if we had
qualified vendors out there to use that contract to try to meet that need.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Are you aware of any influence enforcing Parsons being selected
for this particular project?
MR. FESLER:
No. As I said, at that point I was really on the outside of the process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. FESLER:
Yeah. The department was managing the contract at the point it's been
awarded, really we have contract managers, the department would've
been considered to be the contract manager of those contracts and they
would've, you know, made sure that everything was done in compliance
with the contract.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Beth Leytham is a name that I'm sure you're familiar with with this
investigation.
MR. FESLER:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Have you met her before?
MR. FESLER:
I've attended some of the Go Hillsborough meetings that were held at

night and on occasion I attended 5 or 6 of those. To be honest, I saw that
she was there. I didn't know who she was when I first started attending
those meetings. I became aware of those meetings of her name. I can't
really say I've even had any conversations with her.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Are you aware of any influence, because obviously that's one of the
allegations she had influence on Parsons being chosen. Are you aware of
any?
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MR. FESLER:
I'm not.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did you ever have an occasion where you, I guess, worked with
Parsons before this project?
MR. FESLER:
I have not.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. FESLER:
Not before.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright. John had mentioned that part of the scoring is if you have had
prior project, it actually is a negative.
MR. FESLER:
Correct. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. FESLER:
Volume of work.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright. Are you aware of how many projects that Parsons has had?
MR. FESLER:
I'm not.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because they scored, I mean they very high on the scoring.
MR. FESLER:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So that would suggest that they didn't have that many prior projects.
MR. FESLER:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
If that's looked at as a negative I guess.
MR. FESLER:
Yeah. And I'm not familiar with what their volume of work was.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Alright. Anybody have anything?
DET. CLARK:
No, sir.
DET. PORTALATIN:
No.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Any other statements you want to make, sir? If there's an

opportunity where we might have to meet with you again, would that be
okay?
MR. FESLER:
Oh, sure. Yeah. I'm available.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I appreciate it. Thank you. I'll go ahead and stop the recording. It's 10:00
a.m.
End of interview.
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Attachment Description: KENNETH HAGAN INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:

2015-691857
Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222593, interview Kenneth Hagan, County
Commissioner
CPL. HOLLIS:
Today is Monday, December 14, 2015. The time is

1:08 p.m. This is Corporal Charles Hollis, ABN 5603, Hillsborough County
Sheriff's Office. This interview being conducted today is in reference to the
Go Hillsborough investigation, that's case number 15-691857. Currently
we're downtown at the county building within Commissioner Hagan's
office. Also present for the interview....
DET. PORTALATIN:
DET. CLARK:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
And sir, would you state your full name?

Kenneth Hagan, Jr.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And sir, you're aware our conversation is being

recorded?
MR. HAGAN:
Yes, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
Yes, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. Would you raise your right hand? Do you

swear or affirm the information you'll provide today will be the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
MR. HAGAN:
Yes, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. Alright. Well just a way of introduction,

County Commissioner, how long have you been a county commissioner?
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Re: Interview of Kenneth Hagan
MR. HAGAN:
I'm finishing my 13th year.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So you're probably the longest seated commissioner

currently, right?
MR. HAGAN:
I'm the old timer.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And I'm not sure. How long are you able to
serve as a commissioner?
MR. HAGAN:
Well, you can serve either 8 or 10 years in a district seat depending on

what cycle you come up for and then you can serve an additional 8 years
countywide and I was the second commissioner to go from a district seat
to a countywide seat and Commissioner Higginbotham is the third to do
that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
And he replaced Mark Sharpe, is that correct?

Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Commissioner Sharpe? Okay. And so you're a

countywide?
MR. HAGAN:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Just kind of talk about the process of when you

were brought on the commission. Was there a training process as far as to
make sure you're aware of Sunshine, ethics issues, public records
requests. Was there some kind of method hey, you're brought in, these
are some thins you have to know as an elected official?
MR. HAGAN:
I don't believe so. The only quote unquote training that I can recall, again
it's going back 13 years, but Commissioner Castor and myself got elected
at the same time, November 2002, and I remember being on the 26th floor
and various department heads would come in and introduce themselves;
Planning & Growth, Library Services, Parks & Recs, so forth, but I do not
recall any... definitely wasn't any county attorney briefings or education
regarding those issues that you mentioned. And that's the closest thing to
a training. And that's why I said this is literally on the job training in all
aspects.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MR. HAGAN:
And I was the, believe, third youngest to ever be elected on the county
commission. Never even knew where County Center was or never been
here, so it's literally on the job training.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And prior to you becoming a commissioner,

what other things were you doing? Did you live here in Tampa?
MR. HAGAN:
Yeah. Native lifelong resident. Out of school, got my MBA from the
University of Tampa. Worked at MetLife for a number of years. I was a
stock trader for a few years and then the job I had right before running for
office was with KP&G Accounting Consultant firm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So since your time.... I mean is there any

annual training that you have to go through, like an ethics training or...
because that, in talking to the other commissioners there were some kind
of online training or something.
MR. HAGAN:
Yes. Now there is online training that you have to perform by the end of
the year. That was not the case when I first got elected. I think the
legislature made that a requirement a few years ago. I'm not sure exactly
what year that went into effect though.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Is there any other training that you can seek out
for yourself to make sure that you're up-to-date on all the latest or is there
somebody you can go to for that information?
MR. HAGAN:
As a member of the Florida Association of Counties they have different

courses that you can take at their conferences and those conferences that
I attend and I may go once a year, maybe twice a year. Frequently I'll take
a course or two in different subject matters. Last one probably involved BP
oil spill and funding related to that and what counties are doing and things
of that nature, but that's one avenue that we have at our disposal.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And you've kind of mentioned on the job

training, so when you first came on or as you've been going on, is there
somebody... another commissioner you might seek advice from? You
know, obviously I know there's certain things you're not allowed to speak
of, but is there a commissioner that you would seek advice from on certain
issues?
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MR. HAGAN:
When I first came on if I had any questions it probably would've been with
Commissioner Norman. I replaced him as the District 2 commissioner
when he went countywide and I had known him. He actually coached me
in little league years before that and.... Yeah. So if I had questions...
particularly about... because we replaced him in District 2, normally the
questions would have involved constituent service type issues because
we were taking over from his old district. But in that case, if I had
questions like that that we were allowed to talk about, it would've been in
that... it probably would've been him.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Is there a commissioner that may come to you

now that you've been on... are the longest running commissioner currently,
is there somebody that...? Anybody that goes to you for any advice on
procedures and making sure that things are being followed properly?
MR. HAGAN:
Not really. I've told some of the commissioners when they get elected, you
know, I'll say hey, use our office as a resource if you or your aide,
particularly the aides that do a lot of the mundane and a lot of the small
issues involving... you know, they won't know what to do. So I'll say hey,
come down to my office. Ask my aide. Say how do you handle this? What
do you do about that? But I can't... there's no particular person or
commissioner that has utilized that. But I've told that to newly elected
commissioners. I've told that to staff that just come on board. I've told that
to EDC, the new EDC person, airport. I mean it doesn't matter. I'll say hey,
I've kind of been around here the longest. If you have questions, feel free
to pick up the phone and ask me. Use me as a resource. Very rarely do I
think people do that, but I offer them that opportunity.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you feel that you have an accurate

understanding of public records, Sunshine, what communications need to
be preserved?
MR. HAGAN:
I think I've got a pretty good understanding. Certainly as a result of this

ordeal I think myself as well as probably the entire board, including the
county attorney, has gotten a refresher course on retention and what
needs to be saved. And as a result of getting this issue, I came up several
weeks ago and requested a policy change on how we document, how do
we track, how do we respond to emails, because I think certainly the
county as a whole I think has not been nearly as responsive as we could
have been as far as being, as far as responding in a timely manner. When
I'm hearing complaints of hey, I made this public records request 2 months
ago, 3 months ago, we still haven't heard anything; that's a problem. So
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when I started looking into it, it appeared that... or not that it appeared, but
it was a situation where not every county attorney's office was not
notifying.... There wasn't a consistent method of notifying offices. There
was a consistent method of tracking the information and then of ultimately
responding to the person requesting the info. So I think it's.. the problem
hasn't been, in my opinion, hasn't been on retention. It's been on
responsiveness of doing that. So in that area I think everyone from the
county attorney on down to the commissioners and the aides can do a
better job and that's why I initiated the policy change to do a better job of
documenting, tracking, and then ultimately responding to their requests.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So if somebody were to make a request, say a

specific communication of you and whoever, are you necessarily notified
of that? Like do your aides come to you and say hey, we just got this
request?
MR. HAGAN:
That's the problem.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HAGAN:
And there's one example with.. through the gentleman that you know in
the media that stirred up a lot of this stuff claiming that we were notified in
June of public records requests. Well, when you look at... when you
research and do the search on the computers, it wasn't until September
17th that I was actually notified because some of them go to the aides,
some go to commissions. There wasn't a consistent method of
responding, so that's been the real challenge. And initially, the staff person
would send it to the aides, but there's no telling or there's no way to
actually track unless they forwarded the email for the request and that's
what I found that happened, at least in my situation a couple of times. So
I'm trying to tighten that up to insure that again, that we're responding in a
timely manner knowing that there's no.... I'm not sure of the exact statute
or exact terminology, but it's... I think it's in a timely manner that you have
to respond to those requests.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. Okay. And I know in the light of this

investigation, a lot of scrutiny has been on public records and a lot of
requests have come in. In particular, not too long ago you released about
85 emails that prior to the release had been, I guess, involving private
email accounts and that sort of thing. So what changed to where you
released those, but hadn't released them before?
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MR. HAGAN:
I released them 11 days after I was notified of the request. September 17th
is when my aide forwarded the email to me of the request. On September
28th, is when I forwarded them over to Barbara at the County Attorney's
Office. Now when I told Chip this, I said well, 11 days. I guess that's a long
time and his response was actually that's pretty quick in light of all this. I
can tell you I spent probably 8 hours going through all my stuff. I mean it
was an extremely timely... and exhausted manner to go through okay,
what was campaign related or what was political. What was this? And
trying to identify the emails that were county related. Once I gave them all
to the county attorney and his response is actually in a formal response to
Channel 10 that I have here. I don't know if you guys have seen it, but I'd
be happy to give it to you.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
Sure.
He says all these emails are transient. You don't even, by nature of the
law, don't even have to retain these. I was trying to go above and beyond
and show anything that was remotely close to county related, that here
they are. So there was absolutely no, in my mind, no delay, no intent to
withhold. It was 11 days after I got it. I gave them over.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HAGAN:
And that's in an email that's.... You can do the search. I've done the
search and that's the truth.
CPL. HOLLIS:
When you looked at the 85, I noticed a number of

them were forwarded to your personal email account. Is there a reason
that you do that?
MR. HAGAN:
There's a number of reasons. Number one, a lot of emails, a lot of

communication will involve not only the issue at hand, but will be political
in nature, campaign related. Which, one thing I was taught after that, you
don't want to do anything campaign related, anything political in the office.
Nothing in County Center, nothing on the computers, nothing. So those
are two major reasons. I don't have to be as formal. I don't have to worry
my grammar being precise. I can be a little.... Sometimes I'll cuss and say
things. I don't have to worry about it being on the county server if you will.
I do recall asking a county attorney, and this wouldn't have been Chip, this
would have been Renee Lee years ago if there was anything improper or
illegal about any type of county related business on your personal email
and I was told absolutely not. Nothing illegal. Nothing improper.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
But those... I'm sorry to interrupt, but those would still

have to be preserved.
MR. HAGAN:
Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
Regardless of whether it's personal or public email.

Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
It's the content that's the important part.

Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HAGAN:
Absolutely. In the past.... One other thing I'll say is in the past I've had
issues signing on to the county server. That's been a problem in the past,
so for all those reasons and more, but there's never been an intent to
withhold or to hide county records when they're requested. And when
there are requests... a request is made, I gave over everything, even
things probably as Chip said, 99 percent did not need to be preserved. I
made an attempt and a best effort to maintain anything that was county
related.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And you kind of mentioned this. I mean there could be

that perception that when you are sending this to your personal and now
you're just releasing these 85 emails that you were trying to hide
something, but that's not what happened.
MR. HAGAN:
Oh, absolutely not. No. I mean, if you believe the false narrative that it
took 4 months to forward it over the communication, then yeah. I would
believe, hey, trying to hide something, but when you look at the actual
facts that's BS. It was 11 days after I received it I forwarded them over and
that's the truth and unless you're a conspiracy theorist and looking for
something that didn't happen, then that's just simply not the case.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Well, and I have to ask, you know, given this

investigation there's a lot of perceptions that have been made. A lot of
assumptions have been made just through text messaging and
communications with certain people, so my job is to... our job is to find...
put the context of the conversations.
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MR. HAGAN:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So that's obviously a purpose of speaking with you

today as well. Well, so given all of this, I mean I know most of us probably
receive emails on the phone, so it's very easy to just answer emails too on
the phone or forward it from the phone to personal. So you do that as
well?
MR. HAGAN:
I imagine I have. Kind of a pain in the butt to type a lot, work a lot on the
phone, so I really don't. I've tried to go more toward getting an iPad to do
that and then to go in a different format. But yeah, I imagine I have
forwarded something from my personal phone to make it easier to email
from the house while you're sitting back and we have more time to really
respond and think about what you're doing rather than doing it on your
phone when you've been out maybe had a drink or two and I tried never to
respond on important matters or to respond to the press at night if I of
course had a beer or two.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So do you get contacted by the press on your

personal phone?
MR. HAGAN:
Oh, yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Or through email and that sort of thing?
MR. HAGAN:
Oh, nonstop.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So what.... Given a lot of this investigation and

we've asked every commissioner we've spoken to, what steps do you take
to preserve text messages with your phone? Is there a backup plan if say
the phone gets destroyed, you know, by falling in the water or you lose the
phone. I mean, are there steps that you take to preserve?
MR. HAGAN:
Historically, I just kept them on the phone.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
Okay.
That and just assumed in an era of clouds and servers and forensic tools
and pretty much everything.... I've been watching Forensic Files all the
time learning that pretty much, you know, nothing is destroyed. Everything
is kept somewhere, someplace. But as far as a precise method or tool to
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preserve, I'd say no other than just saving them and I think that's... well,
that's the intent of the new policy that I asked staff to come back with is to
have a formal method and probably.... And staff has not come back with
the recommendations, but I'm leaning toward everyone having county
issued phones to avoid all of this. Years past, I had a county issued phone
and it made it a heck of a lot easier not to have to worry about all the stuff.
But then it's a matter of campaign time and people criticizing you for
taxpayer expense. You know, the economy went south. Why are you using
county dollars to travel? Why are you using county dollars for this? You
got your own phone. So that's one of the reasons why in the past stopped
doing that, but I think in light of this investigation, this issue, it's probably
going to be one of the recommendations that we all have county phones
that can save or retain everything that comes on there. Again, it's kind of a
pain to have two phones you carrying around, but that's likely one of the
ways that we can do a better job of retaining everything.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And like you'd said before, with your phone you just
save them on there, so if something were to happen and you lose the
phone.... I know with Mike Merrill he actually plugs his phone into a
program and he downloads everything. Some had snapped pictures of the
text and email them maybe to their staff member and they hold them in a
folder, so up to this point you've just saving them on your phone itself?
MR. HAGAN:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. What's your preferred method of

communication generally? Text? Email? Or does it depend on the person
you're speaking with?
MR. HAGAN:
Verbal or email. Obviously, I do text, but I've tried over the years not to
conduct county business on the phone or via text. I think if you look at, for
example, I think if you look at.... You probably have, but if you look at the
communication I've had with the County Administrator, Mike Merrill, via
text I think usually you'll see it's about scheduling a meeting, I'd like to talk
to someone, what time do we get together.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
Sure.
Not to say there won't be something in there that could be interpreted or
could be said this is related to county action, but not as much. I don't do
as much via text.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
And I mean you can even look at a text and say yeah,
I'll see you at 5:00 and you've just been on the phone with that person, so
you know when they say hey, I'll see you at 5:00 about whatever you were
just talking on the phone about.
MR. HAGAN:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
That's why texts sometimes you don't capture the

whole message or the whole... everything that's been said because it
could've taken place other places. Kind of switch gears a little bit. With the
board meetings, we've watched a few of them and I've noticed people
getting up while discussions are going on. So is that common for
members to get up? Maybe, I don't know if you all... can you all use the
bathroom during the middle of something or maybe if you got a phone call
that you needed to take? I mean is that common that that happens?
MR. HAGAN:
Moving around I'd say... I wouldn't characterize it as common, but it's not
uncommon. For me, I was chair 5 times and there you don't have as much
flexibility to get up and move around. You can, you can always pass it to
vice chair, but typically you stay where you are. But, you know,
(indiscernible) I have to use the restroom I get up. I know Commissioner
Miller has back issues. He'll get up a lot. Commissioner Higginbotham,
obviously he has health issues. He'll do the same. So it's not uncommon
or unusual for someone to get up, move around. Depending on the length
of discussion. Depending on what's going on. If there's a 30 minute
presentation that you've seen 5 times, you know, you're going to use that
opportunity to get out and go tell your aide something, use the bathroom.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Yeah. So if you needed to get something, are

you able to text your aide, hey, can you bring this for me? Does that
happen?
MR. HAGAN:
You can text, email. Usually, I mean we have buttons that you can push
and so it'll say Commissioner Hagan requests Steve or Jim to come up to
the front. So that's the easiest, probably the method that's used the most.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Understanding of, I guess, Sunshine and during

commission, are you able to text another commissioner if there's a vote
coming up?
MR. HAGAN:
Never.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
Okay.
I mean I guess you can, but I have never done that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Have you heard of anybody on this board doing

anything like that?
MR. HAGAN:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And in talking to some of the other commissioners,

their opinion is that this probably one of the best boards that they've
worked with.
MR. HAGAN:
I think, you know, as the old timer, I think this is the most collegial board
that I've served with. When I first got elected it was challenging. It was
very partisan. Not always partisan, just very personal. You know, a lot of
board members would oppose other board members just because they
brought up or voted a certain way. We don't have that now. That's
nonexistent. Not to say that all votes are unanimous, not to say we don't
dissent and have spirited debate, but no. By far, this is the best board that
I've served with.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Kind of jumping back a little bit to 2010, the

referendum attempt back in 2010. Obviously, you were on board. Can you
just kind of walk through that process and? And when we talked to former
Commissioner Sharpe, he was involved in that quite a bit. What was your
involvement?
MR. HAGAN:
Quite extensive. I was not only the chair of the board at that time, I was
also chair of the transportation task force. That was a year long committee
that met monthly and made recommendations to the board. We had
bifurcated the recommendations into two phases; short term and long
term and came up with specific recommendations. Quite laborious. A lot of
work that went into that plan. I would say.... So I worked extremely hard
for a couple of years getting it on the ballot and then once it was on the
ballot, I would say Commissioner Sharpe and Mayor Iorio at the time were
the front people on it, but I worked extensively back then on that getting it
on the ballot.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Since it did fail, what things did you learn from
that to take into the... I guess towards the 2013 when the PLG or the TED
Group was formed?
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MR. HAGAN:
Well, there are a couple things. I mean as, again the person who was
chair and did a lot of the work then, a part of me resents the fact when
there's a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking on what could have been
done, what should've been done.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. HAGAN:
Mistakes that were made and there were some, but at the end of the day
the reality is even everything would have gone perfectly, no missteps,
2010 was a Republican revolution and even if everything was still
would've done right, it still would, in my opinion, would've lost 8 to 10
points. So known as a backdrop, I think moving forward on this initiative
there was a lot of comments, a lot of... with perspective to the number of
board members that we wanted to have extensive communication with the
public. We felt that the public in '10 was confused and really didn't fully
understand what was on the ballot. There was confusion regarding light
rail was on part of this referendum, but you had high-speed rail that was
going on out there, so that in and of itself caused a lot of confusion. But
really didn't do enough outreach throughout the county to get the input of
the voters to let them know what's in it for them. So I think that was a
major difference about Go Hillsborough and the 2010 is the really
unprecedented level of outreach and input from the community. That was
paramount in really having, making sure that we had someone that had
the subject matter expertise in transportation to assist us on this
admittedly challenging... issue.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So in 2013, when the TED Group was formed,

did you have any... I guess input on how that would be developed or...?
Obviously, you're a member of it, but did you have any input on how that
would be?
MR. HAGAN:
I do not specifically recall any real input in the formation of that. Mike's
done a pretty good job of briefing all the commissioners on moving
forward and the steps that are going to be made. I can tell you that my
general sense was, having worked my ass off back on the last initiative, I
really didn't have the interest in being the point person or being the leader
or being that involved. It was being chair and also chairing that task force,
running for not technically reelection, but 2010 I was running countywide,
leaving the District 2 seat. A countywide campaign is quite an ordeal, so
having, like I said, working my ass off during that, I really didn't have the
interest in being intimately involved in the specifics of the issue. But to
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answer your question, I do not specifically recall being involved or meeting
on the formation of that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Was the goal of the TED Group, the PLG solely
to try to try this referendum again?
MR. HAGAN:
I guess that depends on what perspective that you come from. For
example, I can remember telling one of the individuals whose questioned
this process all along the way and has stirred up a lot of the controversy,
Sharon Calvert, I can specifically recall sitting at Panera Bread probably
some time in 2013 telling her, Sharon, you know there's going to be
another referendum. It's just a matter of when. Because when you remove
the philosophical differences and you remove all of frankly bullshit
surrounding all of this and you look at the issue, we've got $8 billion
dollars in unfunded transportation needs, we got 500,000 people that are
expected to move here over the next 20 years. This year's budget we had
I think, once we paid the mandates and the union increases and
everything, we probably had $40-$50 million additional dollars that we
could use toward transportation. We had $40 million dollars... we had $8
billion dollars in needs. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to say
there's no way to come close to paying for this other than to have a sales
tax referendum. So in my mind and anyone objective that looks at this,
you can't cut your way out of it. You can't... I mean, candidly, Mike will say
this, 60 percent of our main revenue source goes for you guys; law
enforcement and fire rescue. That's it. The other 40 percent has to go for
everything else in the budget, so the money's not there. There's no way to
significantly address that need other than to have a sales tax referendum.
So in my mind that was always the case. But I don't know from staffs
perspective if that was always the intent. I think the intent was, when we
initially started, and you use the word TED, the initial goal... and we've
gotten away from this, but the initial goal was to show the nexus between
transportation and economic development. Economic development has
been our number one priority coming out of the economic downturn and
we wanted to show that that inherent relationship that in order to
significantly address economic development needs, transportation was a
big part of it. So the goal was to identify the select areas where we want...
what do you call them? Enterprise zones or you can call them whatever
you want, EDAs, economic development areas where we want to target
growth and we want growth to be there and then what transportation
improvements can we make now, actually make improvements in advance
of the development. What a novel idea, that we might actually not play
catch up and might actually have the infrastructure in advance so when
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companies are looking to relocate here, we're targeting Fortune 500
companies now, headquarter companies who want to come here. They
know the site's permit ready, the infrastructure is there, we can hit the
ground running. So historically, we've had an unfunded list, billions of
dollars, and when we can get the grant dollars or piecemeal money, we'll
take the top one and kind of slowly go down. Well, this was supposed to
be a new paradigm to where we target economic development areas and
come up with infrastructure to incentivize growth, to make it happen, to
show... put up a sign and say hey, we are open for growth, where we want
growth, we're open for business and to incentivize corporations to relocate
here and for businesses to expand and for entrepreneurs to invest their
capital. That was the premise or that was the goal when we started TED.
Now I think somewhere on the process it's kind of changed into more of
the original model of just addressing our unfunded needs, but.... I know
that's kind of a long winded answer.
CPL. HOLLIS:
That's okay. You're giving us more insight.
MR. HAGAN:
That was the original intent of TED and then it kind of, I don't know when it
went into the PLG or when it kind of changed a little bit, but that was the
original was the economic... was the inherent nexus between economic
development and transportation.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But ultimately finding a new revenue source to

provide for the needs of the county...
MR. HAGAN:
Trying to identify revenue source or sources that can meaningfully

address our transportation deficit. Historically, transportation, when you
speak with economic development professionals, the site selectors, the
real estate professionals, they would always say transportation... or they
have always and currently still say, transportation is our number one
problem or impediment to growth. Well, the public that has changed
through the years. It's sometimes been taxes, it's been affordable housing,
it's been schools, so that's changed, but now the public's also saying
transportation is our number issue. The economic professionals are
saying that, so it's trying to attack it in a meaningful way. Not to just kick
the can down the road with symbolic gestures or action that won't do a
damn thing about attacking the problem.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Moving to the 2014 PLG meeting, August 12,

2014, which was the meeting where as a board you all directed Mike
Merrill to move forward in selecting somebody from the outside, a private
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entity. I just kind of wanted to touch on that a little bit. If you recall that
meeting?
MR. HAGAN:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Had there been any discussions prior to that meeting

on kind of the direction that the PLG was going to go where there was
going to be some input from an outside source because the county,
frankly, just didn't have the expertise or the time to devote what was
needed for a community engagement?
MR. HAGAN:
The only meeting... and again, I think Mike along this process, knowing
how 2010 went, the challenges, and problems that surfaced there,
knowing that this is our number one issue, Mike I think really did a good
job of briefing the board on where he was going. That being said, the only
meeting that I specifically recall, and it was here, and I don't know.... I'm
answering this with this question, but I'm not sure if it predated that PLG
meeting or not. It happened I know in that July/August/September time
frame, but I can't tell you specifically if it was before that or not.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. HAGAN:
Mike showed me a list of engineering companies. I do not... I cannot tell

you if that was the full CCNA list or if that was a scaled down list or what,
but he showed me a list of companies and he said that he was leaning
toward engaging someone out of New York or DC. I specifically remember
that. I looked at the list and I recognized a number of the companies and
also recognized a number of those companies at one point in time had
contributed to one of my campaigns, with HNTB being the one that's
contributed the most. And I looked at it and said well, heck, I'm not going
to cherry pick and try to pick one over the other. I'm not going to do that.
The only thing I told Mike was whoever you recommend, make sure they
have a local presence. I've been through the years a big proponent of
local preference in companies and trying to give business to our local
companies. That's a whole another issue. But that's the only
communication or meeting or briefing that I can specifically recall. I know
that's exactly how it went. Please ask Mike that if you haven't already. But
I can't tell you if that was before or after that meeting, but I know that
meeting took place. But that's the only one that I can really recall.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. You mentioned HNTB. Was Parsons

Brinckerhoff on there as well?
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MR. HAGAN:
Yeah. Parsons on there, I want to say HDR, HNTB. I'm not sure....
Subsequent to all this stuff happening.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
Yes.
In reading, I guess that they had the big full list of whoever is on there and
then they scaled it down. I can't tell you if that was the original list or if that
was the scaled down list.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HAGAN:
But he showed me a list. And I can only assume he had... because he was
briefing every... that he did the same essentially the same meeting with
every commissioner.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Because yes. You had the 53 that was knocked

down to the 10. There were signed a 2-year contract.
MR. HAGAN:
I don't think... yeah, I don't think it was 53. I think it might have been 10 or
maybe something less than that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And then....
MR. HAGAN:
It was on one page and I doubt you can get 53 on one page.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, from my understanding when you all directed

Mike Merrill and there was a process of how that was going to be, how a
firm was going to be selected. Were you aware of how that was going to
be done?
MR. HAGAN:
Nope.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And just.... It's funny that the firms that you
mentioned there were 4 firms that were being considered once Mike was
directed, ultimately the people he relied on to help him with that decision,
John Lyons, Mike Williams, Larry Scully, they narrowed... they basically
looked at the 10, narrowed it down to 4 and those 4.... Well, HNTB, HDR,
Parsons, and then RS&H was one. And so that meeting.... And it sounds
like to me maybe that meeting took place after the board meeting, but....
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MR. HAGAN:
It may have. The only... other than that discussion, I remember thinking
sometime that previous year or maybe the year before the board had
voted to give Mike, to give the county administrator the authority to spend,
I think it's up to $250,000. I opposed that and Commissioner Crist
opposed that. I thought that that we shouldn't give... and I love Mike. I'm
the reason why candidly that he's here. I championed to bring him on and
so, I think he's done a good job. But I didn't think that we should give that
much authority to any county administrator. I was unaware, and I can only
assume the board... and I'm the longest serving and I was unaware and I
can only assume that the other board members were not aware of what
process was going to be utilized to do this. I thought in hindsight, I guess
incorrectly so, that he was using his authority under his ability to engage
up to $250,000 to bring someone in. But I had no knowledge of the
process, of what staff members are going to be involved. None of that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And obviously, Beth Leytham is a name that's

been brought out during this investigation and it's been talked about and
your relationship with her. Can you just kind of talk about that? How long
have you've known her? When did you first meet her?
MR. HAGAN:
Probably first met her year after I was elected. Maybe sometime in '03. I'd
say that we've been friends for maybe 9 or 10 years. Good friends for
maybe 7 or 8 years. But I probably met her sometime maybe a year or two
after I was elected.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And you mentioned prior to being elected you

were part of a communications firm or I'm sorry, consulting. Did you meet
her in those circles then?
MR. HAGAN:
No, no, no, no. Completely different circles.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
Okay.
Not even.... No. Completely unrelated.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Very good. But you all have been good friends
for about 10 years.
MR. HAGAN:
Seven or 8 I'd say good friends.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MR. HAGAN:
I mean knew her prior to that, but don't hold me to the month or the year.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, no. Not at all.
MR. HAGAN:
In that range.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. There's been a lot of speculation obviously

your relationship, so I... just to give you that opportunity to talk about that.
Have you known her...? Obviously, she's part of Parsons Brinckerhoff
during the Go Hillsborough. Did you know of her to be under contract with
Parsons or doing any kind of work for Parsons prior to Go Hillsborough?
MR. HAGAN:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Not aware of that?
MR. HAGAN:
The only companies that I knew that she had been involved in; the
Housing Authority, I knew she had a long standing... not relationship, but
long standing... did work for them for many years. Newland, I knew that
she had done work for them. Red Light Cameras, she had done some
stuff there. And then I knew she did some stuff with some taxi companies
as well as Waste Management, but I think those were more issue related
rather than being retained for, you know, contract a long period of time,
but I don't know the specifics.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And knowing her for the 7 or 8 years where you

all have been friends, and what kind of work does she typically do prior to
the Go... like prior to Go Hillsborough , what kind of work did she normally
do? Is it public... her consulting, public outreach?
MR. HAGAN:
I think the essence of her work is public relations and crisis management I
think is how you would probably define the scope of her work. Other than
she did a little bit of... she helped out staff a little bit on the transportation
task force. I think it was a minor thing, but back then. Other than that, I'm
unaware of any county business that she's ever had. Not to say she didn't
do a little bit here or there, but I can't recall of any other county business
that she's been engaged in.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And you're not aware of any work she had done for
Parsons prior to Go Hillsborough?
MR. HAGAN:
No.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Would it surprise you if she was under contract

with Parsons prior to Go Hillsborough?
MR. HAGAN:
In hindsight after all this, no. Not at all.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. One of the things that we did to the

investigation is we obtained her phone records and we kind of zeroed in
specifically on the August 2014 time frame, because one of the
assumptions or the accusations that have been made is that she had
influence into Parsons being hired with in turn, you know, she gets brought
on by Parsons and, you know, has benefited from that. So she was under
contract. This is the April 2014 contract and some of the services to be
rendered; facilitate introductions, meetings and other communications
between reps of Parsons and elected officials representing the Tampa Bay
region, recommend political business, economic development,
engagement opportunities for Parsons Brinckerhoff. Some pretty generic,
but for the most part basically getting Parsons out there specifically with
the Tampa Bay region and elected officials. Did you have any meetings
with anybody from Parsons that she facilitated those introductions?
MR. HAGAN:
I don't recall any specific meetings. I know that I sat at a Parsons

Brinckerhoff table for an event at A La Carte. I cannot tell you the date of
that. I want to say a few people met up for drinks one time. Other than
that, I don't recall any specific meeting or briefing or anything else.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. In talking with Mayor Buckhorn, he was aware

she was involved with Parsons prior, so I'm just surprised, you know, if you
all have been friends for that long that that never came up, that you knew
she was working with them in any way.
MR. HAGAN:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, okay. In looking at her phone records, I looked

between August the 1st and August the 27th and there were 46 phone calls
between you and her and specifically kind of leading up to the August 12th
meeting. Had you all had any discussions about kind of a direction that
may be...? Did she give you any advice or input on maybe a direction that
the PLG should go?
MR. HAGAN:
The two issues.... Again, back then I was disinterested in getting engaged
in this. My priorities have been Tampa Bay Rays and other issues. This
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was not something that I was, you know, leading the charge on, actively
engaged in. That being said, the two areas that I can recall having a
conversation involved HART reorg, which was going on some time before,
during, right in that area. Don't quote me the exact dates.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No, no, no, no.
MR. HAGAN:
Around there. And again, the generic or the overall process on how we
were going to avoid any mistakes in 2010; how can do a better job of
engaging the public and just the process moving forward; and just the
process moving forward. I can remember just general conversations on
strategy or the best way to handle it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did she mention anybody that should be

brought on to help with that?
MR. HAGAN:
Absolutely not.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I did see... you mentioned the HART

reorganization. That's the email here. It looks like it's from Beth to you.
And these, actually we received these from Ms. Leytham. She kind of
touches on a few things on the reorganization. I'll give you some things
that look like they need to be done in order for that to happen. Can you
kind of talk about that?
MR. HAGAN:
Honestly, I can't go into too great detail simply because I've been on the
HART board.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But this communication here it kind of goes to,

you know, does she give you advice? Do you trust input you get from her?
MR. HAGAN:
Well, yeah. I definitely... I trust the input I get from her. That doesn't mean I
always agree with it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
Okay.
And we'll have spirited discussions on that, but Beth is extremely astute.
She is a hard worker and she's also very strategic and I found that to be a
very rare quality. A lot of people out there are smart. A lot of people out
there work hard. There are very few people are strategic and have all
three of those characteristics, so from that perspective yeah, I do value
her input and trust what she has to say. We frequently disagree, but yeah,
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I do value her input. Yeah, we talked a little about that. Again, having
never been on HART board, I don't know the specifics of their governance
and all that stuff. I can tell you I did have lunch with David Smith who I
believe is their outside counselor and I think there were issues.... I thought
from an outside... I thought Mike was having not... intentionally not
wanting to be on HART.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
You talking about Mike Suarez?

Mike Merrill.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, Mike Merrill. Okay.
MR. HAGAN:
With Merrill, I questioned his rationale on basis for the county taking that
over to begin with, but again, not having been on the board not knowing
that the intricacies really was unaware. But so we talked a little bit about
that and the HART thing in hindsight, you guys probably know better than
me, it just seems to kind of like faded away. But that was one thing I do
recall discussing as well as what process we should use, you know, best
method to go forward to try to avoid the mistakes in '10.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did she seem to be involved with a lot of the PLG

meetings? Did she attend a lot?
MR. HAGAN:
I don't know if she ever attended a PLG meeting. I don't ever recall her
being at one.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. In looking at some emails we recovered kind of

leading up to the August 12th meeting, she was writing to Bob Clifford. Do
you know him?
MR. HAGAN:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I understand he used to work here at the

county. Did you have a relationship with Mr. Clifford?
MR. HAGAN:
I don't remember him working here. He worked for TBARTA.
CPL. HOLLIS:
TBARTA. I'm sorry.
MR. HAGAN:
And I served on TBARTA, so that's where I met Bob in his capacity as a

executive director there.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And she's just updating him where she had talked to Mike Merrill
Friday afternoon. This is the Friday before the PLG meeting on August the
12th. And a long conversation went through. Communication strategy side.
Basically, I know it wasn't called Go Hillsborough then. It became Go
Hillsborough after Ms. Leytham and Parsons gets involved, but she
mentions I had already discussed some of our items with both
Commissioner Hagan and Mayor Buckhorn who will support those general
approaches too. Do you recall having conversations with her about that?
MR. HAGAN:
What is she saying the substance of the conversation?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, it just went through a good bit about

communication, strategies, and when you take this, just trying to put it into
context and then you take the text messaging with Mike Merrill and Beth
Leytham from the August 19th following about talking with you and Sandy
reference transportation communication. Just trying to.... And then you
take the transcripts from the meeting, August 12th meeting, how it all kind
of just fits together where you open the discussions with moving towards
to select somebody from the private sector to help with this. So had there
been communications about maybe going that route prior to this meeting?
MR. HAGAN:
Well, the communications, again, I can't tell you the exact date, before or
after. I'm not going to claim to be able to tell you that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
Sure.
But in that general time frame, the only conversations that I had with Beth
involved the HART reorg and a general or overall strategy regarding Go
Hillsborough or how we're going to... what's the best process to move
forward.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
Okay.
I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that Beth never asked me for a
vote and she never asked me for a contract for either herself, for any of
her companies that she's worked with. That never happened. Now to go
with the PLG meeting having gone back and looked at that, Commissioner
Murman was the first one that mentions transportation expert. Then Mr.
Merrill comes in and says that we do not have the subject matter expertise
in order to be able to handle this and he's been thinking about doing this
and that's when I say yeah, I think that makes sense. Had we had an
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expert having gone through in 2010 to guide us in this and that's when I
also say no self-imposed deadlines. So I was not in any hurry to engage
anybody. I wasn't in a hurry to do this process. I said yeah, that makes
sense, but don't rush it. Do what you go to do to... you know, recommend
the right vendor. But... so, yeah, we may have discussed prior to the PLG
meeting that would be a good process to go through and I think it makes
sense. You want to bring on an expert first before you want to bring on a
campaign team when everyone knows you can't, the county can't be
involved in the campaign of an issue. So we're trying to avoid any selfinflicted grades that PTSA did, for example, over in Pinellas during
Greenlight as far as using tax dollars inappropriately and things like that.
So we were trying to be very careful and to follow the correct process and
not to make any mistakes on how we engage people, when we engage
people, how we use county dollars, and so forth, so no. No new mistakes
were made in '10, no new mistakes that were made in Greenlight. I
thought it made... I still think it makes perfect sense that you want to
engage a professional that's been involved in these types of exercises.
That's common sense.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. When did you find out that Parsons was going
to be selected?
MR. HAGAN:
I don't know. Other than, you know there's a PLG meeting I want to say
October where PB presented.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Correct.
MR. HAGAN:
Prior to that, I do not recall when or how. Maybe Mike sent out a memo
advising the board.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did Beth Leytham contact you and mention that

Parsons has gotten it and I'm going to be doing the communication side of
it?
MR. HAGAN:
Never did.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
Public outreach?
Never did.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MR. HAGAN:
Before or after.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And then this... if you can kind of put into

context this text message about how she's spoke to Ken and Sandy
reference transpo and communications. Now Mercury... was there a
political firms from what I understand? Adam Goodman right here and
Ashley Walker with Mercury. Do you remember having a conversation with
Beth? This is August 19, 2014, so this after Mike's been..., you know,
directed to select and then she's mentioning that to Mike.
MR. HAGAN:
I do not recall having any conversation about.... First of all, I've never
heard of Mercury. I've never heard of Ashley Walker. I've spoken maybe 5
words to Adam. I know Adam Goodman. I don't know the name of his firm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HAGAN:
But I've spoken maybe 5 words to him since I've been in office, but I've
heard of him. I do not recall having a conversation about any of those
firms then. I just don't... I don't recall.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. When you mentioned Mike Merrill came to your

office and kind of show you a list of firms, but you don't remember if it was
before or after. Did you share that information with anybody that would've
been (indiscernible) do you have a relationship being that now Bob Clifford
is over at Parsons and had been starting around July of 2014, did you
maybe reach out to him and let him know that they were in the running?
MR. HAGAN:
The only time I've spoken that I can recall, the only time that I had spoken
with Bob or communicated with Bob outside of TBARTA was I said he's
actively involved with soccer up in Ed Radice and I spoke to his team a
couple of years ago, but I have not spoken... from my recollection, have
not communicated verbally, via text, via email with Bob Clifford on any
subject matter relating to Parsons Brinckerhoff other than a couple of
weeks ago staff, Bob and staff came in and kind of gave me a briefing of
where we were, but no communication with him regarding any of this..
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did you have any influence on Parsons being

selected?
MR. HAGAN:
Absolutely not.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did Beth Leytham try to influence your decision
on anything regarding Parsons Brinckerhoff being brought on?
MR. HAGAN:
Beth never tried to influence me in any way for Parsons Brinckerhoff or for
herself being engaged in this process. I never had any communication
with staff, with Mike Merrill, with the county attorney, with those that were
involved in the process. I didn't have any communication with any of them
regarding any vendor, contractor, subcontractor, PR firm, communications
firm. Nothing. The only communication I had that I can recall is with Mike
when he briefed me on those companies. That was it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. As a commissioner, are you able to share your

opinion on maybe if a certain firm should be selected for a particular
project? So if you're aware of a particular.... A firm is the running for some
project and you know who the decision maker is. Let's say it's Mike Merrill.
Can you give him your opinion and say I don't think you should choose
this company because a, b, and c.
MR. HAGAN:
Sure. I mean you can. I mean I've always tried to be very.... Well, first of
all, most of our engagements are... as this one was, legally procured.
Most of them go through an RFP of sorts, RFQ, RFP, RFI. So I think it's
probably fairly limited on the number of times where there's been a sole
source or direct select or whatever the term is you want to use, but I've
always tried to be very careful not to cross the line between our legislative
goals and mission and the administrative responsibilities, whether it's
internally, the staff. We can hire and fire the auditor, county attorney, and
county administrator, but everyone else that's their side and when you get
involved in those or get close to that line is when you can get ethics
complaints.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
MR. HAGAN:
Or other type of issues. So I've always tried to avoid or not cross that line,
but that being said, yeah, I mean I guess you can say hey, this firm's
good, this firm's bad, you know, whatever.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But essentially, Mike Merrill, the commission is Mike's

boss, bosses, so if my boss came to me and said I think... just my opinion,
I think you should do this. That would kind of weigh a lot more than just
say somebody off the street saying you should go this direction.
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MR. HAGAN:
Well, make no mistake county administrator is a challenging job. When
you've got 7 bosses, 7 egos, 7 attitudes, knowing that you've got to
balance those and you want to keep your job, make sure 4 of them happy
at all times.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
Yeah.
There's a reason why, I don't know what the average is, but it's probably 6,
7 years, at least in Hillsborough, that a county administrator stays around.
So that's very challenging. So from that perspective, yeah, I completely
agree with you that you want to keep your bosses happy. I will say about
Mike one thing, and one of the reasons why I championed him becoming
an administrator is that he's a A-political and he doesn't get into the
politics of things. Other county administrators and other staff members
have been more in that style, but he's not that way. He has a very, as you
probably know, very easygoing manner. Very disarming. I mean the guys
a theology major for crying out loud, so.... But yeah, I can see how you
would want to pleases your bosses, but I would say, and again I can't not
in this example or at least not with me, but it wouldn't be unheard of for the
county administrator to ask opinions of.... I mean, he's done that from time
to time, not necessarily on procurement issues, but he'll say hey, I'm
thinking about this route on an issue or this, you know, just want to get
your input.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. HAGAN:
So just as easily as a commissioner could recommend something to him,

he could do the exact same to us. But at least from my perspective, that
didn't happen on this, but yeah, I mean theoretically it could.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Even when he, I guess, came down and talked to you

whether it was before or after the meeting just to kind of say this is who
I'm looking at?
MR. HAGAN:
He said, and again, in hindsight it makes me think... because again, I

wasn't that.... Well, I shouldn't say I wasn't interested because I was
interested. I mean it's the number one issue that we face. But I wasn't
taking lead and he clearly said New York or DC. Now in hindsight it makes
me think maybe he was talking about a communication company. Nothing
else.... I don't know where any of these companies are based out of. I
haven't looked at that. I don't know any of that crap. But maybe that's what
he was referring to. But all I...and if you look back, I've been a proponent
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and champion local preference. I said, man, whoever you hire make sure
they have the local presence. But in that case he clearly was, not
necessarily asking our input, but just kind of sharing what he was thinking.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Okay. And the reason I asked about, you know,

you giving your opinion to Mike, in some of the public records requests
there was some text messages from Sandy Murman, Commissioner
Murman, to Mike Merrill and it's during this selection process where she
texts him I'm asking you not to pick HDR. What they did with Tampa Bay
Water, the reservoir, was criminal and so I've asked that of the
commissioners. I mean does that seem to be an appropriate... does that
seem appropriate for the commissioner to do that? Especially when HDR
is in consideration for the Go Hillsborough project essentially.
MR. HAGAN:
Well, for starters, I was unaware that she did that. I don't know if it was
appropriate, but I'm not going to stand here and say it was inappropriate.
Again, I'm not going to put words into her mouth. I don't know what she
was thinking or suggesting. I would..., I mean, I wouldn't have done that,
but I'm not going to say it was inappropriate.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And that's been a response. You know, nobody wants... can't think about
what she was saying, you know, when she wrote that, but just as a
commissioner to yes, that's her opinion, but, you know, they're in the
running for and whatever history that Commissioner Murman has with
HDR with the Tampa Bay reservoir and the water situation there. And
ultimately, HDR was not chosen. Parsons Brinckerhoff was, so the
assumption could be made well, did she steer Mike Merrill, you know, into
picking somebody else, not HDR because of her influence on it.
MR. HAGAN:
The only thing that I can think of and it was HDR and it was Tampa Bay
Water related, years ago, and I cannot tell you the issue. I can't tell you
the year. But Ronda Storms, Commissioner Storms, who at that time I
believe was also on Tampa Bay Water, we were considering hiring a firm,
HDR, and she made the same argument. They botched Tampa Bay Water,
so can't support it. Don't do it. Staff at that time, I can't remember their
recommendation or I don't remember the project, but they had said well
they're two different companies, two different entities. Yeah, they're under
HDR, but that's a different part of the company. This part of the company
is completely different. There's no reason not to, so all I'm saying is I've
heard that argument before by another commissioner on another issue, so
it's not the first time that I've heard HDR being bashed.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
And again, yeah, to be fair to HDR, this project is
totally separate from Tampa Bay Water and the reservoir. They're two
different parts.
MR. HAGAN:
Right. Yeah. Exactly. And that was the argument from staff years ago on
whatever the project was that I don't remember, but I do remember Ronda
being very vocal about that at the time.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
Okay. Do you consider Beth Leytham a lobbyist?

I don't consider her a lobbyist because she's never lobbied, never lobbied
me, but the county attorney has always advised us the burden is on the
lobbyist or is on the person to register or do the things they have to. The
burden is not on the elected official, but I personally don't consider her a
lobbyist. But if she is, I don't think that's my responsibility or that's my role
to say.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HAGAN:
But I personally don't think she is.
CPL. HOLLIS:
We've gone back and we looked at the lobbyist

records and the records have not been, you know.... I'm sure there's going
to be some policy changes or things that have been tried to be
implemented now just how that process is of signing in as a lobbyist and
who checks that and that sort of thing. There were a few times where she
filled out the paperwork, the lobbyist paperwork to see certain
commissioners and it wasn't filled out completely, but then when she
actually came to visit you on the Uber, she represented a taxi company,
and you mentioned that. That she actually filled out the lobbyist paperwork
to see you on that issue as a lobbyist. This is back in 2013.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MR. HAGAN:
Does it say who she was with?
CPL. HOLLIS:
No. She's representing the taxi company.
MR. HAGAN:
It was just her?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. I could probably look that up. I thought I had brought that with me.
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MR. HAGAN:
Can you just give me one second? I've got to get some water.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. Here. I'll stop the recording right.
MR. HAGAN:
Just give me 2 seconds.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. 2:20 p.m. Alright. We're back on recording. It's

2:22 p.m. Okay. I'm just bring this computer around. So this is a copy of
the lobbying registry. So Yellow Cab it looks like she was representing and
this was dated June, it looks like June 11, 2014.
MR. HAGAN:
Okay. I do not recall meeting with Beth regarding Uber. I know that I had...
I know that I've had a lunch with Louie Minardi with Yellow Cab at
Carmine's that Beth was not present for. We...I don't recall a meeting with
her. We may have discussed Uber at some point. I mean everywhere I go
people are talking about Uber. I took Uber in Cincinnati this weekend and
took Uber. So we may very well have had a conversation about Uber, but I
do no recall her sitting at this table discussing Uber.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. HAGAN:
I had that conversation with Louie Minardi and thousands of other people
about Uber, but I don't recall that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And you're describing Beth as a good friend.

Did she give you, I guess, a lot of advice regarding work and direction?
Did she send you... I mean, help you write maybe points in speeches that
you wanted to address or...? Do you all have that kind of friendship where
she would do that for you?
MR. HAGAN:
Yes. She, again, one thing that I really admired, I mentioned this earlier
about Beth, is very strategic and I enjoyed strategy on what's the best way
to present something, to roll something out to try and get the media to
cover an event or an issue that I'm championing. So a lot of discussions
about that. She will... I by and large write all of my speeches; however,
she's... when I write something, she's one that I would send it to and say
hey, take a look at this. What do you think? What's the best way to
position this or what's going to grab the attention of the audience? So
she's good at the catch words or the different.... I'm more conservative.
More bland and she can spice it up a little bit, if you will. So she's done
those kind of things. She has helped me with a couple of op eds through
the years, but I think it's been a number of years since she's done that.
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Typically or more recently, it's hey, what do you think about how I position
this? Should I change it up? Again, just kind of polishing it up and make it
sound better than, you know, than it originally did.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Knowing now that she was in fact under

contract with Parsons prior to Go Hillsborough, would that have changed
how you communicated with her knowing that she was part of a firm that
might have been in consideration for this project?
MR. HAGAN:
No. Because we never had any conversations that were inappropriate or

anything that would have come close to doing anything wrong. Never did.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Looking, obviously and you mentioned you don't like

to Monday morning quarterback when you look at the 2010 and what
things you did wrong, looking at this issue and how much I guess focus
now is on this project and with the media reports and assumptions that
have been made on improprieties and improper things like that, would
there be anything that you would change or would have done differently?
MR. HAGAN:
I don't know. Irrespective of... I mean I've learned a long time ago that
everyday, I learn everyday on this job and I can always do things better
and be a better commissioner and improve my performance. There's no
question about that. When you know, when you've gone through this and
you know the facts and you know what has happened, it's extremely
frustrating because when you objectively look at everything and you know
the facts, that you know that the people responsible; and there's really
only a few, that are responsible for Mike requesting this investigation and
this review, know that it's nothing more than an attempt to obfuscate the
transportation deficit, to intimidate this board, and to engage in a politics of
personal destruction. There are those out there that have a win at any cost
mentality and want to do everything they can to intimidate this board for
putting this issue on the referendum. So when you know that, and not to
say those that generally oppose taxes or oppose the issue, but there are
legitimate arguments that can be made, whether it's just we don't think we
have a problem, we can't afford it, whatever the issue may be that those
are legitimate issues that should be debated. But those that have this win
at all cost mentality just wanted to scare this board from putting it on the
ballot and will do whatever it takes. It's just very, very frustrating and it
makes you want to really question what we could have done differently.
My guess, the administration could have done a full-blown RFP, but that
was his call. That wasn't the boards call. It certainly wasn't my call.
Because I believe that there was... knowing that the playbook, which is
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exactly what these folks did in Greenlight, was to challenge the process.
There's nothing that's... that's what they did. I mean that's what they're
doing here. So knowing that, the board or the administration I guess could
have had a full blown RFP that would have, you know, prevented this
issue, but knowing the mindset of those that are in opposition, it would
have been 5 other things. There still would have been accusations, there
still would have been allegations irrespective of what method was used,
what process was used. Again, it's this win at all cost mentality. We cannot
have it on the ballot. So I think even in a perfect word and everybody
that... I mean, never come close to doing anything wrong, everything was
done properly, it still wouldn't go away. And so I'm sure there's some
things that I could have done better and would have done better, but it's
hard for me to get past that knowing in my mind, in my heart that this is all
bullshit. And pardon the language. But it's extremely frustrating.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
Okay. Do think the Parsons was the right choice?

I think they did a very thorough job. I had very limited interaction with
Parsons, with any of the companies I mean prior to this. I think they have
an excellent reputation. I mean they're not some rinky dink small-time
operation. I mean they're international. They're a big gun. So, again, I
think the company hate to say is immaterial. If it wasn't Parsons, if it was
any of them, the same allegations would have been made regardless if
Beth was involved or not. It was just we have to attach the.... That's the
playbook. But I think they've done a very professional job. I'll tell you, and
it's in the minutes of one of the meetings, I think... one thing I'll say we did
differently. We spent too much money. That without a doubt and I said
that, I think I have it hear on the April PLG meeting when Mike wanted to
spend even more money and I said no. We got to bring this in for a
landing. The staff and private sector have to do this and we're not paying
any more money, so yeah, let me emphasize that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
Okay.
We spent too much money and if it could have been, if the task could have
been performed or if we could've gotten a company that would have done
it for a lot less money, then yes, we should engage that company. But
what I've also said at PLG meetings, it was the commissioners not me, but
3 or 4 of the board members they kept wanting meetings. Wanted
additional meetings. Wanted to have the outreach. Which is great. The
outreach has been impressive. We've never had this much community
input on an issue, so that's great, but there's costs associated with that.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. HAGAN:
So part of the reason why that number is so high is because many of the
commissioners wanted to have all of these meetings. So, like I said, you
can't have it both ways. If you're going to have this much outreach and
this much engagement, it comes at a price. So one thing for certain, I
would have spent a lot less money and I brought, I tried to bring it in for a
landing in April at this year's PLG meeting by saying no more money. We
got to bring it in.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And in talking to others and you know, when we

talked to Mr. Merrill, there seemed to be somewhat of a sense of urgency
because if you go through a full-blown procurement, we're any range from
6, 8, 10 months longer and if the goal is to put this referendum on the
2016 ballot, that kind of hurts that effort. So my understanding is that's
why the direct select method.... Let's chose from... if there's anybody
qualified from people we already have under contract and if there is, then
we'll select somebody from there. That was.....
MR. HAGAN:
Well, I think that's the reason why you have that contract. (Indiscernible)
contract, it's just my understanding is when you have issues like this that
are somewhat time sensitive that you can engage, go ahead and do the
full-blown RFP. Now I'm unaware of how long it would've taken or how
long it will take to do a full-blown RFP, but I am on record saying no selfimposed deadlines. It's clear as can be. Do what you have to do, but let's
do it the right way. I am very, by nature, and I've said it... I don't know if it
was that meeting or the other meetings, suggested that we be very
methodical, we take our time, we cross all the t's, dot all the i's. So I'm not
going to saying that was the right or wrong approach, I'm just going to say
I didn't advocate for it. I said no self-imposed deadlines.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I think these detectives may have some

questions for you. Is that okay?
MR. HAGAN:
Sure.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Just a few. Sam Portalatin for the record. Just to clarify and going back a
couple things that stuck out to me is maybe a good question just tie them
up so there's loose ends. But when you mentioned you knew about Beth
having worked for Newland and some of those other companies you
mentioned, is that because she told you or did you find out via media or
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through wheeling and dealings that were made? Or do you recall how that
came to your attention?
MR. HAGAN:
I do not specifically recall, but I would probably say all of the above. I
remember years ago when... going back to Tampa Bay Rays, touring
potential sites with Beth and Robert Shimberg when I guess Robert was...
I don't know if he was on the board or in some capacity, so at that point,
could have been back in 2010 that I realized she had some involvement
with the Housing Authority. As far as Newland, Red Light Cameras, I
cannot say when or in what capacity I first learned, but somewhere along
the lines. Sorry I can't be more precise.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Okay. I guess what I'm just trying to gather, was it something that she
directly told you hey, I'm... not necessarily in this way... but hey, I'm
working for Newland or I'm working for Red Light Cameras? Is there
something that she would come out right and let you know about? Is there
any reason why she would do that or is there any reason she wouldn't do
that?
MR. HAGAN:
I think for those, most of those companies she probably worked for prior to
me even being elected or prior to us becoming good friends, so I don't
think it was a matter of hey, I just got this new contract or I just got this. I
think there were probably held engagements. Red Light Cameras, I don't
know. She never had a reason to say anything to me because I'm the one
that championed the Red Light Cameras at the request of Sheriff Gee.
Sheriff Gee's the one that sent me a letter '06, '07, suggesting that we
needed it. We don't have the manpower to cover everything. We can do it.
So I'm the one that championed Red Light Cameras, so there's no need
for her to hit me up for anything. I'm the one that's... I don't want to say
responsible, but the one that championed it. As far as other issues, I can't
tell exactly when or how I would have learned.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Okay. Thank you. The other was we know that you mentioned obviously
she didn't tell you she was working for Parsons You had no idea of any
contracts that were going on before she was chosen. At what point did you
find out that she was going to be involved with Go Hillsborough? When
was the first time you heard or mentioned or maybe she mentioned to you
she was working on the project?
MR. HAGAN:
I know, well, I know the 1st of January we approved a contract with PB or

funds for PB and she was included as well as I think it was Jacobs
Engineering in the backup as being part of that. Now I'm certain I knew
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prior to that, but definitely by that date. In some... it just would have
probably just would have been in passing, hey, Parsons has engaged me
to do the... help on the communications. I can tell you I attended a couple
of the outreach meetings and she was there.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Okay.
MR. HAGAN:
So I can't give you the exact date of what meeting, but if I had known at
that point, prior to that, I knew when I went to the meeting but I can't give
you an exact date or time that she would have told me.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Okay. And the only other thing I had was... and they
mentioned earlier about I think Ashley Walker with Mercury and then the
Victory Group I think, it says Adam Goodman. You know, not familiar with
those companies, but just to clarify, there's emails that you sent out so I
wanted you to be able to see them and I don't know that you followed up
and looked at them, but there was an email sent to your AOL I believe
from Beth. I handed it over, so I can't see the date.
MR. HAGAN:
Oh, I'm sorry.
DET. PORTALATIN:
That looks like.... That's okay. August 19th and I think she just was just
sending maybe some links to those companies and again, that's not to say
you ever followed up on those links, but I just wanted you to be aware that
those are there in the email. Do you have any recollection of any research
you did into them or did you... were you able to followup on what's she
asking you to look at there?
MR. HAGAN:
No. For starters, I do not recall getting this email. I can tell you when you
look at the subject.... Well, first I'll say it's not uncommon for her to send
me links, send me email that just has links to whatever. Send me an email
on typically it's on media articles that came out or they're online first. Hey,
check this out. The subject is Walker and Goodman. I have no idea who
Walker is. Goodman, I guess I could say, I can put in Adam Goodman,
who again I know who he is, but I've never spoken to him at length. When
I look at the links, never heard of Mercury. Never heard of Ashley Walker.
I'm not on Facebook. I think I have a Facebook account that my sister did
in 2010. I intentionally don't use Facebook. Victory Group, I don't recall
seeing an email, but I'm not aware of Adam Goodman. I know who he is,
but I haven't had any conversations with him.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Okay. Thank you. And that was August... August 19th.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
DET. PORTALATIN:
2014, right?
2014.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Good.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Thank you.
DET. CLARK:
Yeah. Detective Trent Clark for the record. One of my questions is when
you described what type of work Beth Leytham did or the Leytham Group
did, you mentioned that she was primarily the essence is Crisis
Management/PR. Later, we just finished talking about that she registered
as a lobbyist when she came to visit you and also we didn't use the word
consultant. Would you define her behavior as a lobbyist, just the fact that
she signed in to visit you as a lobbyist, and number two, as a consultant,
as a person who gives professional advice?
MR. HAGAN:
I would not, again, define her as a lobbyist. I don't believe she's ever
lobbied me regardless of if a log book was signed or not. I don't believe
she's ever lobbied me. I do not recall meeting with her about Uber.
Consultant? I guess you could use that term. That's a very broad term on
how... what defines a consultant, but I could see firms engaging her and
using that term consultant. I mean I guess I could see that.
DET. CLARK:
One of her activities is to... as a consultant, is to assist people with written

or verbal presentations and many, many of the people we've interviewed
have used her expertise. Some of it has been covered because during a
campaign if you give your professional service or lend that, therefore a
campaign, it's not a violation of some of the ordinances or Sunshine laws.
However, outside of a campaign, she normally charges dearly for that type
of activity. My question would pertain to if you're receiving a service from a
group or like a Leytham Group or any other type of a group, how would
you show or make that public as a receipt of... or how would you disclose
that that you received work from someone who normally charges for that
work?
MR. HAGAN:
Well, I think the only time that that would come into play would be
potentially during a campaign where you would be required to identify or
to document would be referred to as in kind services I would say, she
never operated in that capacity with me. The only campaign that she
would have helped me on would have been in 2010 and I would define
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that nothing more as being on the inner circle or the old term used to be
kitchen cabinet. I had, well, 2014, I didn't have an opponent. I had raised
money, but no one ran against me, so I didn't have a campaign. 2002, '04,
and '08... '02 and '04, didn't really know her... didn't know her at all in '02.
'04 may have just met. We weren't that close in 2008. 2010 was the only
one where again I would define her as being in the inner circle, but
nothing more than my father, three or four other people that assisted me
and I did have a paid campaign consultant that worked in that capacity,
but it wouldn't have been anything more than hey what do you think of this
idea? What do you think of this strategy? But she was never worked in the
capacity as a campaign spokesperson let's say. I've never had a
campaign spokesperson. To my knowledge, commissioners don't have
spokespeople. If I had a manager, I'd say it would've been my father. I had
a paid campaign consultant, Anthony Pedicini. So she never offered that
capacity, but that would be one area where I think that potentially you
would document services if they were rendered.
DET. CLARK:
Alright. And that will be in this document there will be an exemption

because it doesn't fall under that. She's been questioned on that type of
behavior on the Buckhorn campaign and it was tested in open source,
particularly in the press and that's an exemption. So I was talking about
non-exempted assistance from a professional consultant or a lobbyist
person offering advice that normally that person on her contracts there, I
think the minimum contract is $5,000 a month, her principal and she has
several principals. So my thing is.... Let me frame this. A person who it's
up to her to identify herself as a lobbyist or a consultant when she comes
to you; doesn't tell you that she's representing or under contract for a
principal who is in line for a large contract, which in your words, said that
she was overpaid or Parsons for the effort was an over expense. Would
you have dealt with her differently if she would have come to you
representing the Leytham Group and stating I represent these principals
and you knowing that your involved in the PLG/TED Group in discussions
about transportation that are eventually going to lead to a commission
vote, would you have handled her or Leytham Group or any other
consultant differently? And that's what I wish you would address and state
that if you would have known if she came up forward and said I'm
representing PB and I'm coming to you as a consultant, how would you
have dealt or separated your personal relationship with her as an adviser
versus her as a consultant or a lobbyist?
MR. HAGAN:
Short answer is no. We never had any conversations about PB, about her
being involved or engaged in this contract. Had we had those
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conversations, then you're absolutely right. Then she should have
identified herself working in that capacity, but we never did.
DET. CLARK:
Yes. And going to policy, you said that because of this process here, you
said that you were going to initiate a policy change. What is the catalyst of
that policy change?
MR. HAGAN:
All of the bogus claims from one particular media outlet and 7 or 8 people.
DET. CLARK:
And then what particular... what's particular in that policy change that's...
what basic core.... I know you haven't come back with anything yet from
your staff you said, but what are the things you're going to prevent
particularly with a policy change?
MR. HAGAN:
The goal... the primary goals are consistency

throughout the staff and commissioners, transparency, and to do a better
job of documenting when the request came in, tracking. Okay, it was
requested on November 1st. It was sent to Commissioner Hagan on
November 3rd. Commissioner Hagan responded on November 5th.
Tracking it and then being able to ultimately respond in a much quicker
manner than what we have now.
DET. CLARK:
And so your policy change would be centered around 119 or on Sunshine

requests versus Statute 119. My.... I'm also aware, I believe through a
county meeting, that Commissioner Murman also wanted to make
changes as they relate lobbyist rules stating that they have been archaic
and I believe we spoke to Commissioner Higginbotham and he said that
he also championed change several years ago with lobbyists rules. Do
you see any benefit of changing the lobbyist rules as they apply to
Hillsborough County in light of what has occurred here? I know you hate
to Monday Morning quarterback, but in light of everything here and the
context of what has happened, what if any changes do you believe should
happen with the lobbyist rules?
MR. HAGAN:
Well, as I said before, we individually and collectively as an organization

can always do a much better job of improving our processes and
improving our performance. The reality is perception is reality and that's
just the way it is. And so if there's the appearance of inappropriate
lobbyists or the appearance of.. that we're not being transparent in how
we provide documents or that we're not responding in a timely fashion,
then we need to do whatever we can to remove those barriers and to
show that we are acting fully within all of the laws and being as
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Case No: 2015-691857
transparent as we can. So we need to... whatever methods those are.
Even if they're more symbolic in nature, we're not, I don't believe....
Lobbying certainly occurs on the local level, it's not to the degree I think of
state and federal and then stuff where junk gets places and then taken....
You know, you've all read the stories of inappropriate behavior by lobbyists
and that just in the grand scheme of things just doesn't happen, at least
here locally. But whatever we can do to tighten up our rules and
regulations and be as transparent as possible, I fully support.
DET. CLARK:
That's my last question, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Just a couple more, if that's okay. I know we've taken

up some of your time and I appreciate the time. You talked about during a
meeting, you mentioned texting, you know, if you needed to text your aide,
that's okay. And some of text that you released showed some text with Ms.
Leytham. Is that common to text others during a meeting?
MR. HAGAN:
I don't know if I'd say it's common, but it's happened. You know, wife will
be at home watching. Friends. Parents. You know, usually it's personal,
you know, ripping me for looking bad or doing something stupid or saying
something stupid or.... So it's not... I don't know if I'd say it's common, but
it's not uncommon or, you know, or unprecedented.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
Okay. But there's no rules forbidding that.

No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
But it is a practice that happens?

No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I mean, yes, it is a practice that happens.
MR. HAGAN:
Oh, it happens. It happens. I'm sorry.
CPL. HOLLIS:
That's fine. Any ethic issues that you're aware of

involving this Go Hillsborough process?
MR. HAGAN:
Any ethics?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Issues. Yeah.
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MR. HAGAN:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
In the selection of Parsons in that entire process?
MR. HAGAN:
Obviously, the short answer is no. I mean I'm unaware of anything

inappropriate, anything even remotely close to being unethical, illegal,
improper from anyone. I said it before, but I want to restate it as emphatic
as I can that I never lobbied anyone, any staff member; I never had any
conversation with any staff member about any vendor, contractor,
engineer, PR firm, communications firm. It didn't happen. With anyone. I
recalled the one conversation I had with Mike at this table, but that was it.
But no, I'm unaware of anything even remotely close to being improper or
unethical with any other commissioner or staff member.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Yeah. My last question. Any other

commissioners you know of that tried to influence Parsons being brought
on forthis project?
MR. HAGAN:
I'm unaware of anything.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright, sir. If we were to have a question down the

road, could we come to you again?
MR. HAGAN:
Yes, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
I appreciate it. Do you have any...?

No, I apologize for delaying a little bit. I had to go to Cincinnati last week
for a wedding.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. HAGAN:
Oh no...
Believe me, I wanted to do this and get it over with. But no, I think we
covered most of the highlights and I appreciate your time and you guys
working this.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes, sir. I'm going to stop the recording. The time is

2:57 p.m.
End of interview.
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Attachment Description: KEVIN BECKNER INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:
For: 4602

2015-691857
Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222593, interview Kevin Beckner, County
Commissioner
CPL. HOLLIS:
Today' is November 24, 2015. It's 10:08 a.m. This is Corporal Charles
Hollis, ABN 5603, Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office. This interview is
being conducted in reference to the Go Hillsborough investigation. The
case number is 15-691857. This interview is being conducted at the
county center downtown on the second floor. Sir, would you state your full
name, please?
MR. BECKNER:
Kevin Beckner. Kevin Alan Beckner.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. BECKNER:
B-e-c-k-n-e-r.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And Commissioner, you're aware our conversation is being recorded?
MR. BECKNER:
Yes, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. BECKNER:
Yes, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you.
MR. BECKNER:
You're welcome.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Also present.
DET. PORTALATIN:
DET. CLARK:
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Case No: 2015-691857
Re: Interview of Kevin Beckner
CPL. HOLLIS:
Commissioner, would you raise your right hand, sir? Do you swear or
affirm the information you'll provide today will be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth?
MR. BECKNER:
Yes, I do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you.
MR. BECKNER:
You're welcome.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So how long have you been commissioner?
MR. BECKNER:
Since I was elected in 2008, so this is going on my 8th year.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Very good. And prior to involved I guess in elected services, what were
you involved in?
MR. BECKNER:
Primarily I was a certified financial planner with Ameriprise Financial.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, very good. So when you came in at 2008, that was before the 2010
referendum?
MR. BECKNER:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Can you kind of just walk us through that process that you were part
of that and why that failed?
MR. BECKNER:
The 2010 referendum, when we had put that on the ballot, I think that
there was really, there wasn't a lot of cohesiveness with the leadership
group. The city was.. had their point. The county had their points. And then
there was the MPO as well as HART and so I don't think as agencies we
were all collectively working together on that and it wasn't until the end
that we came together. I think there was a lack of communications to the
people on what the referendum entailed and was about and obviously, the
downturn in the economy. Those were probably the key issues.
CPL. HOLLIS:
In talking to former Commissioner Sharpe, he had mentioned, you know,

there was a committee formed, but that the commissioners could appoint
people to kind of represent them?
MR. BECKNER:
There was a transportation group that was put together and actually that
was already going before I actually came into office. I think part of the
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Case No: 2015-691857
problem with the county commission is we had I think Commissioner
Sharpe and I think Hagan was sitting on there, but we.. the other board
members were not present. We would get updates on occasion, but part
of the problem was we weren't involved with the regular conversations.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So essentially, obviously, the 2010 failed and then the PLG or the
TED Group was formed in 2013.
MR. BECKNER:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What was your involvement in how that was created or formed?
MR. BECKNER:
I sat or I sit, still, as a board member there and so that was pretty much
my extent. All of the county commissioners were part of the Policy
Leadership Group.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And part of the difference between that and the 2010 was that
instead of having a representative for a particular commissioner, all the
commissioners sat in as well as the 3 mayors and the HART director.
MR. BECKNER:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did you have any involvement in how that was formed?
MR. BECKNER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you know who did?
MR. BECKNER:
It was Commissioner Sharpe's part of his initiative and so the only thing
that we had involvement with was the approvement..the approving of the
structure of it, which we agreed would all the county commissioners, all
the mayors, and the HART, but beyond that we just... other than
participating.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did it seem to work out better than the 2010 attempt?
MR. BECKNER:
Absolutely. Everybody was at the table, so we were all on the same page
and we were all receiving the same information, so there's a lot more
cohesiveness.
CPL. HOLLIS:
One of the questions I had asked too, because I know Commissioner

Sharpe was chair at some point. Did that kind of reflect over into the TED
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Case No: 2015-691857
Group or the PLG that whoever was kind of the head person in the
commission would kind of, that would kind of flow in with the TED?
MR. BECKNER:
I don't know if that... if his position as chair really had that much of an
influence within the group, but Commissioner Sharpe was... with his time
and service in the commission, he was considered one of the point people
and one of the more vocal proponents for transportation. I mean, we were
all supportive of a comprehensive transportation system, but
Commissioner Sharpe that seemed to be part of his thing that he always
advocated for.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. What would you consider that the role of the TED Group was?
MR. BECKNER:
Is to advocate and to come together to put together a proposal for a

comprehensive transit system that could include a referendum if the group
so chose to.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. BECKNER:
And to make recommendations to the county commission.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Would it be fair to say that the reason that the TED Group or the
PLG was formed? And I keep interchanging those because it originally
was the TED, is that right? Like Transportation for Economic
Development?
MR. BECKNER:
Yeah. The names kind of came back and forth and they got interchanged
and then it became the Policy Leadership Group.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But was the reason for that to try a new referendum because the 2010
failed?
MR. BECKNER:
Well, it was to put together, to bring all the leaders together to put together
a plan for a comprehensive transit system. A referendum, it was always
probably assumed in the background that a referendum would be part of
it, but we didn't go in there with any pre-assumed notions that we were
going to be putting forward a referendum.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Was it a lot like a fact-finding group just to get all the heads together; put
all the ideas out there?
MR. BECKNER:
Yes.
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Try to come together with the best plan possible?
MR. BECKNER:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
In August 2014, which was the big PLG meeting where you all directed
Mike Merrill to.... I guess they had been doing some public outreach
somewhat just within the county and then now to kind of go outside and
hire a private firm. Do you remember that meeting?
MR. BECKNER:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Can you kind of tell me...? Did there seem to be a sense of urgency that
you all needed to get somebody on board quickly to kind of move forward
with?
MR. BECKNER:
Well, my recollection is that we wanted to get a firm that would be

involved, that had a couple components. Number one, that we're involved
in other transportation initiatives and two, that could help us do outreach
into the community. And so we wanted a firm with transportation expertise
that also had an outreach component to them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I got the transcript from the August meeting and.... And when you
first start meeting.... I'm just going to slide that right there. You mentioned
specifically about the 2010 and kind of what failed there, but talking about
having a conversation with people; how we're going to document and
measure the conversations that we're having, and then that's actually
when Mike Merrill kind of suggests about engaging somebody to assist
the group in the private sector. Prior to that meeting, was there
discussions about maybe going out and looking to somebody in the
private sector?
MR. BECKNER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. BECKNER:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Not that you're.... Okay. And obviously a lot of the focus is on Parsons
Brinckerhoff and how that whole process came to be and then Beth
Leytham and her involvement with that. What involvement did you have in
the selection of Parsons if any?
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Case No: 2015-691857
MR. BECKNER:
Just on the Policy Leadership Group level as far as just approving them
and then on the county commission the votes taken to approve their
contracts.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Back in 2011, the group of 53 vendors was narrowed to 10. It was on a

general civil services contract. Is that a standard practice where you all
have a list of vendors that you can kind of choose from for certain
projects.
MR. BECKNER:
In procurement and county administration, I don't know when it's been

done before, but it's my understanding and I would agree that when you
are going out to, and you're going to be using engineering firms, which we
do in the county on a regular basis, that it's more cost effective to have a
group of vendors and to put together a group of vendors as opposed to
going out for a procurement every single time. So you have a list of
approved people that you could actually use.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And plus it would take more time obviously to do the procurement.
MR. BECKNER:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Than just being able to select, hey, you've already got these already under
contract. Let's see if they qualify.
MR. BECKNER:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you know how the process was going to be? How they were going to
do in choosing somebody to assist with the PLG on this initiative?
MR. BECKNER:
No. No. No, I was not involved in that process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But were you given a list of hey, here are who we're considering?
MR. BECKNER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you know if any of the commissioners were involved in that?
MR. BECKNER:
Not that I know of.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you have any influence on Parsons being selected?
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Case No: 2015-691857
MR. BECKNER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you know if anybody had any influence on that from a commissioner or

PLG standpoint?
MR. BECKNER:
Not that I'm aware.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did you have any conversations with any commissioners or any
PLG members about who should be selected?
MR. BECKNER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
As a commissioner, do you hold yourself to a higher standard because

you're an elected official?
MR. BECKNER:
I believe so. Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And are you. I asked this question. As a commissioner, if you have a

select number of vendors... is it appropriate for you to go to the person
that's making decision and say hey, my opinion, I don't think you choose
this one or I don't think you choose this one?
MR. BECKNER:
No. I take it to... on the procurement process to leave that to the

administrative, to the administration. I think that's the most appropriate
thing to do, that we don't be involved specifically in those types of
selections.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But if you happen to here, okay, this firm is being considered, but
you've known some, I guess, some negative things that have occurred in
the past with that firm that it may be not be the best firm to choose, can
you as a commissioner give your opinion and that's okay, but maybe it's
not the best practice, but it's still okay to do that?
MR. BECKNER:
Probably. If there's some personal information that you know about that
vendor, you could certainly voice your concerns.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. The reason I ask that, Sandy Murman, it's been documented some
of the text messages that have been released, one of the texts was some
communication she had with Mike Merrill where during this process in
August where they're selecting eventually Parsons, HDR is one of the
firms that was being considered and she text Mike I'm asking you not to
pick HDR. What they did with Tampa Bay Water was criminal. My
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
thoughts. Do you think that's an appropriate thing for a commissioner to
do?
MR. BECKNER:
I think as commissioners we can give our opinion. It's just my personal

belief that in the procurement process that you allow the process to play
out and I have taken a point, personally myself, not to get involved in the
middle of the procurement process. You know, it wouldn't... I don't know
that it's necessarily uncommon. If I knew something, I mean there are
some things that when I first got elected around HDR that had to do with
the....
CPL. HOLLIS:
The reservoir?
MR. BECKNER:
The reservoir. Thank you. That I thought that HDR had some issues, but I
did not insert myself into the procurement process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Just possibly how it would be received or that it...?
MR. BECKNER:
And there were a couple I can recall, a couple of times where I actually
voted against HDR because I didn't at that time the issues had not been
resolved with the reservoir and I didn't think it was in the best interest of
the county or the taxpayers that we continue to procure with somebody
that had unresolved procurement issues.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And in talking with some of the other commissioners, Sandy Murman,

Commissioner Murman did not make it a secret that she was not in favor
of HDR because she sat on the Tampa Bay Water board and that. Is that
your assessment as well?
MR. BECKNER:
I've never heard her personally talk against HDR. I can't recall if we...
since her time on the board if there were procurements that came up for
HDR, but I have not heard her specifically talk against HDR.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. BECKNER:
Personally or in a meeting.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. When did you first meet Beth Leytham?
MR. BECKNER:
I came in contact with Beth for the first time I believe when I was running
for I think reelection in 2012.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Alright. So prior to that you had no contact with her?
MR. BECKNER:
Maybe just on occasion I met her, but hadn't really... and I can't recall any
deep conversations that I had with her because I don't think it was 2008. I
think it was election 2012.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And how were you introduced to her? If you remember?
MR. BECKNER:
Maybe at a social gathering or at fundraiser. I can't specifically recall when

I first met her.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And what is your understanding of her, I guess, what she does for a
living?
MR. BECKNER:
She is... from what I have heard and what I had known about her, she had
a great reputation of being in communications and her marketing efforts
and then of course, I knew that she had close contacts with Bob
Buckhorn, so she.... But beyond that, it's pretty much what I knew about
her.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. How about as far as relationships with any of the commissioners?
MR. BECKNER:
Other than Ken Hagan, that's the only thing that I knew.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Has she ever done any work for you personally?
MR. BECKNER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Or has she done any work for any of the other commissioners that
you know about?
MR. BECKNER:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Obviously, she gets on board with Parsons to do the public outreach. Her
contract starts November of 2014. Were you aware if she was under
contract with Parsons prior to that?
MR. BECKNER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did you have any contact with her leading up to the decision that
Parsons was selected for this outreach?
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MR. BECKNER:
Other than a social basis, no.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And we had requested text messages and these are the only texts
that we have that came from you involving any communication with Beth
and this looks to be March of 2015. If you could just maybe put into
context. Obviously, when we look at texts we don't know the context, so
that's why it's good to get with those that sent or received to see if they
can kind of explain that for us. It looks to be that you all, you're attending
one of the meetings; one of the outreach meetings.
MR. BECKNER:
There was a tele-town hall meeting and when you attend, you RSVP and
so when she saw my name on the list, she sent me a text message and
wanted to know because she was going to on... helping to facilitate,
wanted to know if I wanted to be identified on there and I said not
particularly. So and then when we came, when we got done with the teletown hall meeting, I made comments to about how it was well attended
and then also expressed; one of things I expressed my concerns were
about were the millennials, on the outreach, the millennials and we talked
about the importance of the millennials and their input and the
transportation referendum.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What was your normal conversation with her? Was it through text, email,
phone, in person?
MR. BECKNER:
It's probably a combination of both. I don't do personally a whole lot of

texting. That's not necessarily my thing to do, so we've had telephone
calls; brief. We haven't had that much contact.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And is that all based around the Go Hillsborough project?
MR. BECKNER:
No, most of ours are socially and campaign related, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, okay. During your reelection?
MR. BECKNER:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But how about during the Go Hillsborough process? Anything?
MR. BECKNER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Was she doing anything for your reelection?
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Case No: 2015-691857
MR. BECKNER:
Other than contributing, no.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Alright. One of the issues that has been brought up during this
whole process is the Sunshine and public records. How do you make sure
that you're up-to-date on Sunshine Laws and public records?
MR. BECKNER:
We go through annual ethics training as well as if I have any questions

about Sunshine, I consult with our attorney, so other than that, you know,
there's the basics that we've learned.... Basically, you don't have
conversations with individuals about upcoming business when you sitting
on the same boards with one another.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you find that the commissioners as a whole are educated enough on

Sunshine and following those proper procedures?
MR. BECKNER:
I believe that we are.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Are you all.... So you said annually. How was that done? Is that in person?
Is that on computer?
MR. BECKNER:
It's usually online, so in fact the legislature then started requiring us to

have... I think it was a couple of years ago, they started requiring annual
compliance in ethics training.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you have a system in place personally...? Because obviously, with

computers, emails, you know, that's automatically tracked and sent to a
database, even if you use, you know, your work email on your personal
phone, that's all captured. But text messaging is obviously a different
animal and you actually have to have the initiative to save it. So what do
you have in place to make sure that's done?
MR. BECKNER:
Typically, well, on my phone sometimes personal email or personal text I

delete when I have it, but for the most part if there's anything relating to
county business or any of that, either I'll forward it to my email here or I
just keep those text messages on my phone.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But if a situation arose where your phone say got damaged, got
lost, how would you be able to recover anything on the phone then?
MR. BECKNER:
Not sure that I could.
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So maybe a different practice. One of the things we found in talking
with Mike Merrill, he either snapped a photo of it or he downloads... he
connects it to a program he has and he downloads it into a database that
collects them all. That in sense, you know, preserving it as opposed....
Because, you know, phones do some funny things.
MR. BECKNER:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And so I don't know if that might be something to think about in the future.
MR. BECKNER:
I think we could probably do that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And that's some of the things we've been asking everybody to kind of see
how they capture it, because it is a new technology that more and more
are using text to communicate, but you told us that's not your preferred
method?
MR. BECKNER:
It's not my preferred method.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. BECKNER:
I can talk a lot faster than I can text.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. Sure. Let's see. And one of the big accusations is that Beth Leytham
basically got Parsons chosen because she has been under contract with
Parsons in the past. She actually was under contract during the entire
2014 prior to Parsons even being selected. She was hired by them from a
communications, public outreach standpoint to get them business
essentially. Do you know if she had any involvement in the selection of
Parsons? Any influence?
MR. BECKNER:
That I don't know.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you know who actually made the decision? I mean obviously the
PLG is who approved Parsons, but who actually made the decision on
them being selected.
MR. BECKNER:
Well, ultimately the recommendations came from the county administrator

from the procurement process and then the Board of County
Commissioners vote on contracts and stuff like that.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
But you understand that the procurement had actually already happened
and they did what's called a direct select. Have you heard of that?
MR. BECKNER:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And that's how Parsons was selected? Is direct select common?
MR. BECKNER:
Since I've been here I have not seen that before, so I don't know that that
is. I don't know how many times or if they have other direct select
procurement processes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. We found in our research that they've used that before and actually
selected Parsons before and other vendors when there's a time constraint
issue, so you don't have to go through the procurement. Yes, it's actually
in a manual that public works uses, but that was the first time you had
ever heard of it?
MR. BECKNER:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Now after Parsons was selected, what involvement did you have
with...? Who, who came up with the name Go Hillsborough?
MR. BECKNER:
I don't know if that... I think that may have come through maybe Parsons
or in combination with the administration, but it wasn't something that we
voted on.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. BECKNER:
As the Policy Leadership Group.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I know here in March you attended a meeting. Is that one of things
that you were involved in as attending the public outreach meetings or...?
MR. BECKNER:
Well, I attended two town hall meetings. Those were the tele-town hall
meetings, so I had not attended any of the in person meetings. So other
than that, the Policy Leadership Group meetings and the county
commission meetings are the ones that I would have attended.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Obviously, it's easy to go back and Monday morning quarterback

decisions, but if you could do this whole process all over again is there
anything that you would change?
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MR. BECKNER:
You know, I'm not so sure that there is anything that I would change. You
know, from what I had seen from the procurement process, you know,
again, I don't know what went on behind the scenes, if anything went on
behind the scenes or if the influence was there, but I think some of the
focus has been too much in the process and not on the content. Parsons
has a great reputation of working in the transit field, you know. And I
thought, at least from on the surface where I had seen the public outreach
had been pretty effective, so I don't know that there's anything that I would
do differently.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Anybody could look at Parsons and their track record. I don't think
anybody could say they're not qualified to do the job that they've done.
MR. BECKNER:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And even looking at Beth Leytham's history of what she's done, she
appeared to be qualified. But again, yes, if there was any talks behind
close doors, those are obviously some of the things we're looking into.
MR. BECKNER:
Well, and you know, if there are that type of things that went on, then you
know, that's one issue, but as far as the work that they had done, I don't
have any criticism of the actual work product that has come out of it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And just how the whole process, how the PLG and just how it all went
down.
MR. BECKNER:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So even to the point where it was a direct select as opposed to a full

procurement, again, that it was still the proper....
MR. BECKNER:
I think with our time constraints that we had and then also you know they
had done a full procurement on those firms that got on the recommended
list, so I don't have any problems with that process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
It's been told to us that everything seemed to be... there seemed to be

extra steps taken to make sure that everything was done properly and
even during the October meeting back in 2014, Mr. Merrill kind of outlined
everything that had been done just to get it all on the record that
everything was that we've heard was above board. Is that a fair
assessment?
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MR. BECKNER:
I think it is. You know, everything that I have seen and participated in I
think I've been satisfied with it so far.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And again, any influence that you had on Parsons being selected?
MR. BECKNER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you know of any ethical issues that you're concerned with?
MR. BECKNER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you mind if these detectives ask you any questions?
MR. BECKNER:
Go ahead.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Just one quick one. Detective Portalatin for the record. The message that
we mentioned earlier where Commissioner Murman sends a text to the
administrator, Mr. Merrill, and mentioned something to the effect of I'm
asking you not to choose HDR. I don't know the specific language in that,
but is that an example? And I know that you said personally that's not
something you would do. You stay out of that process. But would that be
an example of a message you feel would have to be memorialized for
Sunshine, recorded or for instance, an example of a message that you
would have saved or sent that email?
MR. BECKNER:
I would have saved that. I mean, if I... because to me that involves county
business. It involves something about you know a decision that was going
to be made in the procurement process. Now is it a Sunshine? Usually,
Sunshine, my understanding, is Sunshine is that involves communications
with other decision makers and so it would be like with other board
members. I don't know that that's necessarily a Sunshine issue for the
county administrator, but certainly it's pertaining to county business and
that would a message that would have been saved.
DET. PORTALATIN:
And that's pretty much how you'd make your determination if it was
pertaining to county business, probably safer to error on the side of
caution and save it?
MR. BECKNER:
Yes.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Okay. Okay. Thank you.
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DET. CLARK:
Detective Clark for the record. My question pertains to lobbyists. Recently
there were some suggestions of changes to be made by Commissioner
Murman said that they would tighten up the way in which lobbyists could
make contact with the commission. What changes do you know that are
coming forth and why?
MR. BECKNER:
I haven't seen any of the specific recommendations yet. There was talk
about having all of the lobbyists register, which they're supposed to be
doing now. I think one of the points of contention is what exactly is a
lobbyist. I think that definition is trying to be further defined. I haven't seen
any of the specific recommendations yet.
DET. CLARK:
Okay. And do you see yourself as a gatekeeper or you or other

commissioners see yourself as a gatekeeper for defining the contact?
When someone makes a contact, they come to you as a consultant or a
lobbyist or it's business or personal, who ultimately defines that contact?
MR. BECKNER:
Well, right now I think there's a question. Lobbyists are supposed to selfpolice themselves and sign the book, but I think there's a question that
again, you know, how are we going to define a lobbyist and that's what the
board through their policies will probably define.
DET. CLARK:
Okay. Another issue we had particularly was when a lobbyist or a

consultant self-defines themselves, sometimes they... at least in the paper,
we're talking about Beth Leytham, she defined her activity as not as a
lobbyist or a consultant because she, in the newspaper article, says
because she pops in and out, whatever that means. But when it comes to
dealing with anyone who's making the decision on an upcoming decision,
should she be or any other consultant or lobbyist be more forthcoming?
MR. BECKNER:
Well, I think that if part of your intent is to secure a contract or secure

some type of work, then I think that's... you can probably define your
activity as lobbying. You know, if you're just coming here for, you know, for
other purposes and you don't have any intent to influence a specific work
for a company or for yourself, I don't know that that would necessarily be
defined as lobbying.
DET. CLARK:
A lot of the people we've talked to so far have said that they were unaware
that Leytham or the Leytham Group was under contract with Parsons;
however, they've had contact with the Leytham Group during this time.
You know these are yearly contracts. Part of the contracts was to make
relationships with public officials and attend meetings and the meetings
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were defined in the contract and report back to Parsons. Knowing that,
when we exposed that to many of the people involved in this investigation,
they said they would have dealt with her or any other consultant differently
if they had known they were under contract. But that's not a requirement
under any lobbyist or consultant coming to you presently unless other than
signing a book. But there are other different contacts they come in contact
with you guys at socials and everything else. So my question is, is there
any attempt to insure that if a lobbyist or or a consultant is doing or
coming in contact with you that they one, identify themselves as who they
are actually and what their intent is as being a consultant, a lobbyist, or a
constituent to be more.... And then not just say I'm lobbyist or I'm a
consultant, but who are my principals?
MR. BECKNER:
Yeah, I don't think that that's ever been addressed or thought of. You
know, like I said, we're looking at putting together a more comprehensive
policy around that, but that hasn't to my knowledge been addressed.
DET. CLARK:
My last thing is the disclosure forms for gifts. We've talked to officials from
the cities and Tampa, in particular, they have a different way of disclosing
and a different limit or a threshold for gifts and the county does also. But
when it comes to gifts, not just monetary gifts, but gifts of service, how
would you or any other commissioner document a gift of service? And to
put that in context, the service being either consulting or lobbying as what
somebody normally does for work as a consultant, which is to give expert
advice either orally or written that they normally are... or they are presently
getting charged for, but when they come in contact with a commissioner
and give free advice or service, how would that be disclosed or
documented?
MR. BECKNER:
I think that's interesting, but probably also a gray area because if they're
giving you a physical work product, I think that's one thing. So if for
instance they're writing some type of a campaign plan or they're giving a
specific work product is different than just saying hey, listen, you know, if I
were you I would be doing this, that or the other and just talking out of free
conversation. I think it starts getting in.... I think you have to look at the
benefit received and that can sometimes I think be difficult to measure like
I said, unless there's a specific product.
DET. CLARK:
The campaign... a political campaign is an exemption when it comes to

that type of a gift or a service, but when it comes to a daily, let's say
someone would give an ed-op or scrutinize work that's done by a county
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worker who's doing outreach and would edit that and then... receive it, edit
it, and send it back to a commissioner for free.
MR. BECKNER:
I think you would have to use the basis if that's something that they would
normally... if that's something that they would normally charge for as part
of their business services.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. BECKNER:
So probably if ordinarily they would charge anybody to do that type of

work, but they're giving it for gratis to a county commissioner or another
elected official or somebody else and that would have to be considered a
gift I believe and should be reported. But again, I think you start running
into some gray areas there I think.
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir. And I agree with that. We would have to get that legally defined,
but if that was... if someone was offering that service through your office
here, would that be something where you say okay, that's a good idea. I
saw this and they gave you their opinion or you would shy away from that,
correct?
MR. BECKNER:
I'm always free to give advice and my opinion and I don't charge for my
advice or my opinion.
DET. CLARK:
Right.
MR. BECKNER:
If somebody says hey, will you look at this, read this or what do you think
about this or that? I've never... I mean, it's part of.... If they're a friend of
mine, it's part of, you know, it's our friendship. If it's anybody else, I've
never thought about giving that type of... charging for that type of advice.
DET. CLARK:
And you mentioned before that you were trying to get a better or a more
concise definition of a consultant, but a part of the definition of a
consultant is the person who gives expert advice so that's part of their
services to analyze the situation and then give expert advice supposedly.
MR. BECKNER:
Yeah, and I think it just all depends upon, you know, if I were to just... if
you and I were just to talk and say hey, I wanted to run something by you.
What do you think about this? I think that's one thing. As opposed to hey, I
want you to develop this plan or I want you where you're going to be
expending a lot of amount of time, research, or energy, putting something
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together that you would normally charge for. You know, I think that's when
you start... you probably then start getting into gratis services then.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MR. BECKNER:
But, you know, I don't know. I guess just never really thought that much
about it because we're always, we always talk, you know. Friends ask you
for advice or always giving advice or what you think about this and that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But because I guess you're in a position of influence as a commissioner,

you have to be careful. Are these friends that you had prior to becoming
an elected official? Because that's what we found in talking to some
commissioners that you know they have to be careful accepting certain
things because they are.... Are they getting certain things because of who
they are in their position or who they are as a person?
MR. BECKNER:
Well, I think that there are some things that are more clearly defined.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. BECKNER:
Like for instance, we file... we're all required to and I do religiously, the
quarterly gift disclosure, so I get tickets to go to the Bucs game. That's
reportable. Lightning games, that's.... Something physically received of a
value of $100 or more we report that, but when it comes to giving advice, I
think that's... I don't know. You'd really have to I think.... If it's something
that's normally that you would bill and charge for, I think that's when you
could probably start defining that as a gift received, but if you're just
giving, you know, off-the-cuff advice, hey, what do you think about this?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. BECKNER:
Then you wouldn't normally charge for that I don't think.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But I think there's a point to of any kind of written correspondence where

hey, check out this and then they send it back with a bunch of edits.
MR. BECKNER:
If you're using your professional time and you're spending time on

something that you would normally charge somebody for, then I think that
that's a service that you could count on as a gift and so I don't know if Ms.
Leytham if she regularly, you know, who else would come to her and edit
op-eds or write op-eds and stuff like that. You know, if she normally
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charges for that, then that's probably should be something that should be
reported as a gift.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you all have people here on staff that can help edit things?
MR. BECKNER:
My legislative aides. We also have a Communications Department, but it

can only be related to county business and I mean my staff here helps me
put together speeches and writes things like that, but they're also paid as
my legislative staff to do that as well, too.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Would it be appropriate then to go outside to have help with a talking

points or speeches, to go outside when it's dealing with county business?
Is that normal? Is that...?
MR. BECKNER:
It's not normal for our office. I can't speak for others. But the only people
that have helped written stuff for us has been my legislative aides.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Alright. I don't think we have anything else.
DET. CLARK:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you have any questions commissioner? If we needed a question

answered down the road, could we come to you again?
MR. BECKNER:
Just give me a call. Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I appreciate it. Alright.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Thank you.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I'll stop the recording. It is 10:48 a.m.
End of interview.
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Attachment Description: LARRY SCULLY INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:
For: 4602

2015-691857
Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222493 interview Larry Scully via conference call
CPL. HOLLIS:
Today is October 26, 2015. The time is 3:05 p.m. This is Corporal Charles
Hollis, ABN 5603, Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office. This interview is
being conducted today via conference call. Sir, could you state your full
name, please?
MR. SCULLY:
Larry Scully.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And Mr. Scully, it's S-c-u-l-l-y, is that right?
MR. SCULLY:
Correct. Corporal Hollis.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And you're aware our conversation is being recorded?
MR. SCULLY:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I have your permission, correct, sir?
MR. SCULLY:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And this interview is also being witnessed by....
DET. PORTALATIN:
DET. CLARK:
And Detective Trent Clark. ABN 173949.
CPL. HOLLIS:
This interview is being conducted in reference to the Hillsborough County

Sheriff's Office investigation of Go Hillsborough. Mr. Scully, where are you
located, sir?
MR. SCULLY:
Washington, DC.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And we're here in Tampa, Florida, at the Internal Affairs Office, 2008
East 8th Avenue in Tampa. And Mr. Scully, I know we're on the phone, but
could you raise your right hand. I'm going to swear your in, sir.
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Case No: 2015-691857
Re: Interview of Larry Scully
MR. SCULLY:
Got it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you swear or affirm the information you will tell us is the truth, the
whole truth and nothing but the truth?
MR. SCULLY:
I do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. And sir, just by way of introduction, if you could just tell me a
little bit about yourself. I understand you work for Scully Capital
Investments.
MR. SCULLY:
Right. Scully Capital Services in Washington, DC.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And.... Go ahead.
MR. SCULLY:
I'm sorry. I want to make sure I answered the right question, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. If you just want to continue with the introduction.
MR. SCULLY:
My company, you mean?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes, sir.
MR. SCULLY:
Yeah. We're an infrastructure financial advisory firm. We've been around

for 30 years and work in water and transportation and energy, basically.
And you know, understand basically projects, I guess, and the financial
side of, you know, municipalities and their infrastructure projects. That's
kind of us.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay, sir. Are there times when you do consulting work for county
government or city?
MR. SCULLY:
Yes. Yes, of course. Excuse me. Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And how long have you been working with Hillsborough County
government?
MR. SCULLY:
You know, just so I'm clear. Of and on actually for quite a while and then
we had a, we have this project contract, which I think started under a
group called PRAG and then we had a separate contract, which started I
think last fall and I can check all that. But I mean we've worked with the
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county like literally over maybe the last 20 years, you know, and Tampa
Bay Water. So I mean I can clarify all that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. SCULLY:
But we've worked with Hillsborough County over the last 20 years, you
know, on and off at different little things. Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay, sir. And is basically the purpose of, I guess, you're working with the
county on a consultant basis or whatever...
MR. SCULLY:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SCULLY:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
On different projects that deal with I guess your expertise.
MR. SCULLY:
Yeah. Infrastructure finance. Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And are there times when the county will reach out to you for your, I
guess, expertise on decision making with a particular company that they're
looking to hire?
MR. SCULLY:
Yes, but you know, the term decision making, we help like provide
information to the committee or the decision makers. You know, since
we're not part of the county, we don't really make any decisions. We like
do research. You know what I mean? And then put our data on the table
along with everything else and then someone in the county makes a
decision.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And how many times... I mean, or can you kind of estimate how many
times you've done that for Hillsborough County?
MR. SCULLY:
Actually a number of times. Let's just say, you know, 4 or 5 times in the
last 2 years. Let's say that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And specifically in dealing with the Go Hillsborough project, which

brought on Parsons Brinckerhoff, who they contracted out to do this
project, did you... were you involved in that?
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MR. SCULLY:
Yes. Help the county team. Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Can you kind of just walk us through how you became involved in
that, sir?
MR. SCULLY:
Basically the same way I would become involved in any project. Someone
in the county asked me to help and tells me, you know, like what they'd
like to know and in this particular project, they asked me to think about the
transportation firms that understood sort of the sales tax referendum side
of the word, because, you know, that's really revenue raising and we're
sort of financial revenue folks. So I was contacted and then I helped work
with John Lyons and Mike Williams, who are on the... they were on the
county team and I was the one that chatted with... along with other county
folks, I chatted with three different firms; HNTB and HDR and what's
called Parsons Brinckerhoff; people call it PB, just to get a sense of their
experience and projects they've worked on that would qualify 'em to do
the Go Hillsborough work.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Now who contacted you from the county to ask for your assistance?
MR. SCULLY:
I mentioned to Bill Blend my notes. It looks like it was Mike Merrill's office
or Mike, but they basically told me to work with John Lyons and will Mike
Williams. You know what I mean?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SCULLY:
That's how it sort of works in the past. I mean, you know Mr. Merrill. He
doesn't have two minutes, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
He's very busy. Yes, sir.
MR. SCULLY:
I work with the staff. You know what I mean? So I don't want to have any
sort of, you know, that I'm working with directly with Mike that much. It's
really the staff.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. When we talked to Mr. Merrill last week, he mentioned I guess the
partnership you have is a public-private partnership. Is that an accurate
phrase in talking about I guess your dealings with the county?
MR. SCULLY:
Well, my firm specializes in what are called public-private partnerships

where the county or any other public entity is trying to accomplish
something using both public funds or public staff and private folks. That's
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kind of what we're famous for. You know, so we've developed that over the
years and have done some fairly major projects in that area. So he
considers us part of his public-private partnership team. You know what I
mean?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So do you have a date of when you were contacted by Mike Merrill
or Mike Merrill's team to help out with this project?
MR. SCULLY:
And as long as I'm allowed to sort of say August, you know, middle of
August.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Of 2014?
MR. SCULLY:
No. 2015. I'm sorry. 2014. Sorry.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SCULLY:
Yeah. No, 2014 to August, mid-August and then.... Because I have, you
know, when we were talking to the companies was after that and then
clearly I guess by September they had picked somebody. So it was kind of
mid-August of 2014. Sorry. You're right. Sorry.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. That's fine. My understanding is that there were 10 firms that you all
reached out to because there was basically a list of 53 firms, which I don't
think you were part of. They narrowed it down to 10. They had signed a 2
year contract. Just general contracts with the county and that was who
they kind of looked at initially to see if any of them qualified for this
particular transportation initiative. Do you know if that's correct?
MR. SCULLY:
Yes. And just... my nomenclature on that, Corporal Hollis, is they call it the
general civil list, which the county, I guess, you said a couple of years ago
went through, you know, sort of a big process and picked 10 that they
would then consider for project work. You see what I mean?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. SCULLY:
That's my understanding of how that worked.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Now you mentioned HDR, HNTB, and PB as some of the firms you
reached out to. Were there any other ones that you reached out to?
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MR. SCULLY:
No. The county may have, but those are the ones that I talked to and I
think they were the ones that.... This particular set of expertise is generally
on sort of the larger firms. You know what I mean? Because it's like
economic development/transportation/you know... sales referendum. So
the larger firms tend to have more expertise in that area off the general
civil list. So the county staff may have talked to other people. Those are
the three I talked to.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you know who you talked to from HNTB?
MR. SCULLY:
Can I just check? HNTB? I believe it's.... Give me one second. Michael
Dement. D-e-m-e-n-t. That's HNTB, Corporal Hollis.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Well, I talked to a Jim Drapp
MR. SCULLY:
Yeah. Jim Drapp is in Denver and I think he.... I'm looking at things I'm
absolutely sure about in my notes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SCULLY:
And Jim Drapp and actually I think there was another person. They were
talking to other people inside their firm, but Jim Drapp may have been the
first call and then he sent me to Michael Dement maybe.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SCULLY:
Yeah. Sorry. At H....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you know if Michael was based out of Tampa?
MR. SCULLY:
Michael Dement is in Kansas City.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SCULLY:
And I think he... again, he might have been the right guy because I, you
know, checked in with the companies and then they probably sent me to
Michael Dement.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Was it your understanding that HNTB had been involved in a

Pinellas County transportation initiative?
MR. SCULLY:
I think they.... Yeah. HNTB was involved in that, in Pinellas County. Right.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Alright. And so Michael Dement was your contact over there that
you eventually spoke to.
MR. SCULLY:
Eventually. Right. Michael Dement. Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And how did...?
MR. SCULLY:
And I think.... Sorry. Go ahead.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No, no. No, sir. I was just.... How did that...? Was that through email? Was
that through phone calls? How was the contact made?
MR. SCULLY:
My initial contacts are always with phone calls and then they may have
sent stuff in. You know what I mean? But I almost always call him first and
try to figure out if they know what they're talking about.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So was there anything specifically you asked HNTB for?
MR. SCULLY:
I generally ask for their qualifications and more in depth than would be
generally in their packages and stuff, with respect to, you know,
transportation sales initiatives, you know, revenue increasing initiatives.
And just for clarification; within these engineering firms, they have usually
kind of economic/communication sort of group. You see what I mean?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SCULLY:
So it's not the hardcore engineers. I'm a registered professional engineer,

so these kinds of services are specialties within those engineering firms.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did you receive anything like any kind of paperwork from HNTB
about their qualifications?
MR. SCULLY:
I think they sent me a note. Again, I have to check, but I think they sent
me like an overview of their... like what they've done. You see what I
mean?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Is that something that you held onto or did you forward it on to John
Lyons or Mike Williams with the county?
MR. SCULLY:
I don't have a note of me forwarding that to them other than maybe just
chatting through, because on most of these companies I think they also...
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Case No: 2015-691857
and you've probably asked them guys already. They also check with these
guys both at the local level and skills and things like that and again, just
for clarification, they wanted to understand these companies' qualifications
both, you know, from the bottom up and from the top down. You see what I
mean?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SCULLY:
And I was gathering some of the stuff from the top down and then I would
talk with them or forward the things on, but I don't have a record of me
sending this on to them. But I can check. I mean I'm very happy to try to
check.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I appreciate that. Yes. Any email correspondence you may have had with
HNTB about this. If you could provide copies of that, that'd be great.
MR. SCULLY:
Hold on a second. Yeah. I just want to make sure I write down my to do

list, Corporal Hollis.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. Sure. Now Michael Dement, was that the main person you had
contact with at HNTB?
MR. SCULLY:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And then how about Jim Drapp? Did you really have any contact
with him?
MR. SCULLY:
I think he punted me over to Michael.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SCULLY:
I have handwritten note on Jim Drapp, so I have that. But I think they sent
me over to Michael Dement. I think he was the right guy. He was the guy
that does this stuff.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you know if you duplicated any work that Mike Williams or John
Lyons may have done in talking with some of these companies? Like were
they also talking to them as well?
MR. SCULLY:
I'm not sure. I think they were talking to different people. Again, I think the
idea was to gather as much information from different, you know, points on
each company. But I just know the folks that I talked to.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Were there any issues with HNTB that you were concerned about?
Their qualifications or their time management of returning any documents
to you?
MR. SCULLY:
Actually, between HDR and HNTB, one of them was very, very bad at that
and I don't have it right in my notes in front of me, but I know as far as you
know some firms were very responsive and others literally fell asleep. So I
just want to.... It's one of those two. It was either HNTB or HDR from notes
and....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Well, that'll kind of move me to my next question then with HDR.
Who was the contact you had there?
MR. SCULLY:
Mr. Ryan. M-a-t R-y-a-n.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And again, you were like the same with HNTB asking for any kind of
qualifications; an overview of their procedures or past project that they've
done?
MR. SCULLY:
Right. Exactly.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And did you receive anything from HDR?
MR. SCULLY:
I'm looking.... Yeah. I have note from Matt Ryan.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SCULLY:
CPL. HOLLIS:
And unfortunately, I have one, you know, email and then a lot of hand
notes, but the email is from Matt Ryan.
Do you have a date on that email, sir?
MR. SCULLY:
August 25th.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you have the email of when he may have submitted anything about
their qualifications?
MR. SCULLY:
I think they did it.... I think they literally did it orally.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MR. SCULLY:
You know what I mean? I don't have a submission to me. No. Yeah. I don't
have a submission from them in my file from Mat.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SCULLY:
It maybe.... Go ahead, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No. I was.... Because you had mentioned one of them; HDR, HNTB was
bad about returning documents to you all?
MR. SCULLY:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
If you had spoken to him say like you did on the 25th and then he
submitted documents on the 26th, that would have been obviously a very
appropriate time table wise. Correct?
MR. SCULLY:
Right. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Was there any follow-up that would have been done asking for more
documents?
MR. SCULLY:
Well, and we, you know, we usually call and see if they were going to send
something. If they didn't send it and then we try to follow up and basically,
my records show it didn't show up. So....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Because I had spoken to Matt and I've got some copies of emails
and packages that they submitted and it looks like it was submitted a day
after speaking with you initially.
MR. SCULLY:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SCULLY:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So if that is the case then that doesn't seem like there was any kind of
time management issue there.
MR. SCULLY:
Yeah. Can you tell from that did he submit it to John or... when you say the
package?
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. He mentions John and yourself.
MR. SCULLY:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But I'm going to speak to John, too. So I'll address that.
MR. SCULLY:
Right. Okay. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But as far as your memory and the notes you may have, any issues that
you had with HDR and their qualifications?
MR. SCULLY:
Right. I mean one of them began. One of them was not so responsive and
then one of them was sort of in the Pinellas side. I think HNTB was sort of
in the Pinellas side. So..and they also do more on the private side, so not
so friendly to the county. So I think.... And again, I wasn't involved in that
narrowing process, but those are some of the issues I think that the
county team considered.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And then you also talked to Parsons or PB?
MR. SCULLY:
It's Parsons Brinckerhoff. Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes, sir. Okay. And who did you speak with with them?
MR. SCULLY:
Give me one second, Corporal Hollis. They...Give me one second. I'm

looking at the package. The letter is from Robert Clifford. Robert Clifford.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. SCULLY:
That seems to be my.... The one who.... And then just to be clear on that.
There's a guy in Washington named John Porcari. P-o-r-c-a-r-i. I think he
worked with Bob Clifford to submit the package that they did submit.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SCULLY:
Which I know John Lyons has.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Yeah. I think I've seen that.
MR. SCULLY:
Right.
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
So any issues that you have with Parsons as far as returning
documentation or... and just your speaking with Mr. Clifford?
MR. SCULLY:
No. I think they were probably... I'd have to say probably the most
responsive of the three. And again, they sent a letter and a package of
information to have the county examine that. You know?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Now during this process, was there a time that you ever came to
Tampa to sit down with John Lyons or Mike Williams?
MR. SCULLY:
To go through the documents?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes, sir.
MR. SCULLY:
You know, I don't think I did. I think we chatted. I don't have a travel
recollection of sitting down and going through each of these because it
was kind of coming in piecemeal. You know what I mean?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. So did you all mostly handle your meetings through conference calls
and the telephone, that sort of thing?
MR. SCULLY:
And actually maybe even not as sophisticated as conference calls, I might

even talk to Mike or talk to John. You know what I mean?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SCULLY:
As we were trying to gather stuff, so I didn't want to say we had a

conference call with everybody on it because I don't have a record of that.
But you know, we would just chat.
CPL. HOLLIS:
When you were contacted by Mike Merrill or his team, was there a time
table given to you on how quickly you all needed to make a decision on
one of these companies?
MR. SCULLY:
Well, I think they wanted to find someone, you know, fairly quickly just
because of the timing of the whole referendum and everything which is
probably in other documents that when they wanted everybody to get
someone on board and things like that. But I'd have to say it was similar to
other processies where, you know, it takes weeks. You know what I
mean?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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Case No: 2015-691857
MR. SCULLY:
Even though they have already preselected these folks to call them and
get the stuff sent in and chat and stuff like that. It takes, you know, it takes
weeks to do it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sir, has there been a time when you've lived in Tampa or have you always
been up in DC?
MR. SCULLY:
No, I haven't. I have not lived in Tampa. I worked with Tampa Bay Water
for quite a while, but again, I've always lived in Washington.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you know a Beth Leytham?
MR. SCULLY:
Actually, I didn't ever know Beth Leytham until she showed up at the
meeting, which was kind of the kick-off meeting for this project. So I didn't
know Beth Leytham.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And when you say the kick-off meeting for the project, are you talking
about the... well, what came to be known as the Go Hillsborough project?
MR. SCULLY:
Yes. Yes. This is after everybody was on board. They had a meeting at the
Parsons Brinckerhoff office. You know what I mean?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes, sir. Do you remember when that date was?
MR. SCULLY:
You know, I should be able to tell you that. If I can find it in my files, I'll find
it. But it was... there was a lot of people there. I'm pretty sure John and
everybody were there and that would be the first time I met Beth and she
was just introduced. I didn't actually walk up and say hello to her. I just
knew she was at the end of the table. There was probably 20 people in the
room.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And prior to that you had never met her before or heard of her? Is
that my understanding?
MR. SCULLY:
No. And actually I sort of apologize because I guess she's pretty well
connected or well-known within the, you know, within the work she does.
But I had not come upon that work or her in my travels.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. During this process, were you encouraged or told who to pick as
being the most qualified for this project?
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Case No: 2015-691857
MR. SCULLY:
No. No. Never.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you have any contact with Beth Leytham about this project before that
meeting when you all initially met?
MR. SCULLY:
Yeah. No. Never. I really literally didn't know her.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you remember how she was introduced at the meeting?
MR. SCULLY:
I guess she's a public relations consultant to teams, you know,

infrastructure teams, so she was on the team I guess. You know what I
mean?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did Mike Merrill ever tell you who you needed to pick?
MR. SCULLY:
No. Never.
CPL. HOLLIS:
John Lyons or Mike Williams?
MR. SCULLY:
Never.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And when you had gone through this process of contacting HNTB,
HDR, Parsons, did you give a recommendation of who you thought was
best qualified?
MR. SCULLY:
No. Just submitted what I had gotten and then again, just sort of chatted
with the team and I think, actually I think there might have been people
other than John and Mike Williams, but again, just try to sort of give them
my take on each firm and their ability to help the county.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I guess just a way of review, could you tell us your take on those
three?
MR. SCULLY:
Well, I mean from my notes, the PB folks were most responsive and had
seemed to have done the most number of projects. I believe it was HDR
that was a bit slow and maybe their package was more unimpressive and
I think HNTB really again, because of their work in... which was a very big
deal, the Pinellas work, you know, didn't necessarily look like, you know, a
perfect candidate. So it was that and I guess then the local knowledge
from John and Mike that lead the county to a decision.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright. Following the meeting initially with Parsons and their team, was
that your last involvement with this project or was there any more?
MR. SCULLY:
That was actually my last involvement and I think it was like last fall, right?
And that was it. And they blasted off and you know, did the work on trying
to work on the Go Hillsborough stuff.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Are you aware of any ethical issues within the county involving this
project where there was any outside influence on Parsons being chosen
or internal influence of Parsons being chosen?
MR. SCULLY:
No. Not that I'm aware of at all.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Sir, I think that might be all the questions I have. Let me see if my
detectives have anything.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Mr. Scully, this is Sam Portalatin. In reference to HDR, who is the firm that
you believe per your notes was the one that was late, do you have any in
your notes or in your recollection any specific instances that you could
direct us to where they were late in their responses?
MR. SCULLY:
Well, you mean other than this project? I'm sorry.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Yes. In the selection of one of the three, were just

looking for maybe some instances or some examples of how we might be
able to show if they were in fact late, how so?
MR. SCULLY:
Right. I mean it was, I think they were sort of maybe say late and
unimpressive in the response and the level of response. You see what I
mean? Like pretend that one firm would have, you know, 5 people calling
and checking in with me or something and then the other one's like fell
asleep a bit, so it was only on this project because I don't have that, you
know, that set of data. It could have happened with the county staff. You
see what I mean? Because the counties do this all the time. You know, the
county staff go through this general civil list all the time. So I would, from
my personal experience, it was just on this project.
DET. PORTALATIN:
So as far as you know with them being late, it wasn't

necessarily with anything that you requested from them. It may have been
in some of their responses back to other county employees?
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MR. SCULLY:
A little bit of that. Yeah. Yeah. And again, I would have to say... and again
the.... It's a little bit of a, you know, judgment call on, you know, their level
of qualifications versus the other firms. I think they just sort of fell into third
position. It's just, you know, both timing of their response and then sort of
what they knew. They seemed to fall into the third position.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Okay. Thank you, sir.
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir. This is Detective Trent Clark. I had a question about how many of
these, if any, other selection committees or assistance have you been
involved in at all?
MR. SCULLY:
With Hillsborough County?
DET. CLARK:
Hillsborough County primarily or anyone else that would be like this.
MR. SCULLY:
Right. There have been, let's just say there have been a couple with
Hillsborough County on different projects and then when you step back
from that, you know, like literally for a group called DC Water, which is an
infrastructure group in Washington, DC. We basically did the same thing
and helped them select. Again, we look at the financial aspects. We help
them select a design-build firm for a $70 million power plant at the waste
water plant. So yeah, municipalities bring us in to do the financial part of a,
you know, of an infrastructure project like that.
DET. CLARK:
Okay. And I'm particularly interested in how the... what I mean like like
this, meaning that it was a preselected list of firms down to the list that you
were given from the 10 already preselected. Does anybody else use that
process, a bidding process or procurement process of a preselected
group or is everybody else using an open bidding process?
MR. SCULLY:
Well, actually it's a little bit complicated. Most cities do kind of like this.
There's a short list either through bidding or through just understanding of
the qualifications of the firms from the staff inside the county. You know
what I mean? You know, there's obviously general procurements where 20
people submit the stuff and 3 get short listed and you know, in a general
open bid. Right?
DET. CLARK:
Yeah.
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Case No: 2015-691857
MR. SCULLY:
And then out of the three they finally do a best and final and everything
like that. So they did that a while back. I guess the county did that when
they went from 53 to 10. You know what I mean?
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MR. SCULLY:
So and actually, I'm not a county procurement expert, but they have a
process that once they have the 10, then they have a process to go
through and figure out on a particular project who's best qualified to help
them.
DET. CLARK:
And that's where I was getting at to see if this was a unique thing or is this
a well-practiced system and if it ran smoothly or it didn't run as smooth as
you're used to over your years of experience. And my question would be
with your experience, you know, over the last 20 years of dealing with the
county, how did this process work? Was it efficient?
MR. SCULLY:
Yeah. I guess I'd have to say I think it was efficient and actually fair also as
far as the county, you know, using their procurement process to try to find
someone that's most qualified to work on a particular project. You know
what I mean? It seemed.... And I guess maybe... it's Trent, right?
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir.
MR. SCULLY:
Yeah. Sorry. I mean, and just in... again, having been at this a while, I
mean, literally some places just literally pick whoever they want. You know
what I mean? It's like there's 3 or 4 firms or whatever and they just like
hand out the work to somebody. So, I'd have to say either Florida or
Hillsborough has a more sophisticated open process than most, you know,
than a lot of people. You know what I mean?
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir. You satisfied my question, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sir, I think that's all the questions that we have. Did you have any
questions of us?
MR. SCULLY:
No. No. I just want to make sure I'm supposed to send down, Corporal
Hollis, an email that I have from Mike Dement.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. SCULLY:
Right?
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CPL. HOLLIS:
From H....
MR. SCULLY:
And I can do that. From HNTB. Michael Dement.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes, sir.
MR. SCULLY:
And I hope I can get you a copy of that. That's my one thing. Is there
anything else I need to send you an email on? I just want to make sure I
do my follow-up right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No. I think that's... I think we have everything else that we need. And if we
needed to, sir, in the future contact you, would that be okay?
MR. SCULLY:
Oh, no problem at all. And sorry, Corporal, I think I have your phone
number. I'm not sure. I have the Bill Blend memo in front of me, but I'm not
sure I have your right email address.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. It's the letter C....
MR. SCULLY:
Corporal Hollis.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. With letter C for Charles. H-o-l-l-i-s. So chollis@...
MR. SCULLY:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
@hcso.tampa.fl.us.
MR. SCULLY:
And it's H-C-S-O? Excuse me?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office.
MR. SCULLY:
Oh, I'm sorry. Good. Should've figured that out. Sorry.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No problem.
MR. SCULLY:
Okay. chollis@hillsboroughcountysheriffsoffice.tampa. Just FL?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes, sir. Just fl.us.
MR. SCULLY:
.us. Okay. Let me send down the Michael Dement note and I'll try to get to
that by the end of the day today.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Thank you very much, sir. This will end our interview.
MR. SCULLY:
Okay, sir. Thank you.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you.
MR. SCULLY:
Okay. Have a good day.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You too. And the time is 3:38 p.m.
End of interview.
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Attachment Description: LES MILLER, JR. INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:
For: 4602

2015-691857
Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222593, interview Lesley Miller, Jr., County
Commissioner
CPL. HOLLIS:
Today is Friday, November 20, 2015. The time is 9:49 a.m. This is
Corporal Charles Hollis, ABN 5603. This interview is being conducted in
reference to Hillsborough County case number 15-691857 involving Go
Hillsborough. This interview is being conducted at the county building on
the second floor. Sir, would you state your full name?
MR. MILLER:
Lesley, L-e-s-l-e-y, James Miller, Jr.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. MILLER:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. MILLER:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you.
MR. MILLER:
And also present for the interview.
DET. PORTALATIN:
DET. CLARK:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Commissioner Miller, would you raise your right hand, sir? Do you swear
or affirm the information you'll provide today will be the truth, the whole
MR. MILLER:
I do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. Sir, if you would just kind of introduce yourself; tell us a little bit
about yourself.
Page 457 of 1954


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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
Re: Interview of Lesley Miller, Jr.
MR. MILLER:
I'm county commissioner. Fortunate enough to be a chair right now, the
county commission.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. Congratulations.
MR. MILLER:
Thank you.
CPL. HOLLIS:
That just happened.
MR. MILLER:
I think. I don't know what else you need to know.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, how long have you been commissioner?
MR. MILLER:
I've been commissioner since November 2010.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MILLER:
Before that time, I served in the Florida Legislature for 14 years, 8 years in
the Florida House of Representatives from 1992 to 2000, and then from
the Florida Senate from 2000 to 2006. Left early. I could have stayed to
2010. I ran for Congress and I lost. After that time, I went to work for the
University of South Florida. The last job I had there was assistant vice
president and dean for students. Tried to do both of them. Elected here.
Worked there. It didn't work. This is not a part time job. This is a full time
job. So this was my blood. This is in my blood, so I left USF, came her full
time. I'm married. I have Gwen Miller, who used to be on the Tampa City
Council. We have 4 kids; 3 sons, 1 daughter. One son is a detective with
Tampa Police Department.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, very good.
MR. MILLER:
And we have 6 grandkids; youngest 11, oldest 28.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So you're a very busy man.
MR. MILLER:
Pretty much.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And you've been in public service for quite some time.
MR. MILLER:
Either elected or appointed for almost 40 years.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. So you did start back in 2010, so you were part of the... I
guess the initial referendum that was attempted in 2010?
MR. MILLER:
I was running at the same time...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MILLER:
That referendum was on the ballot.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. It failed.
MR. MILLER:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I was elected. Now the formation of the TED or the PLG Group as it is
known now. I guess originally it was called TED; Transportation...
MR. MILLER:
Yeah, we call it TED. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
For the Economic Development. What was your involvement in that?
MR. MILLER:
As a member of the county commission, at that time I was Chaplin of the

county commission, so I served with the other seven county
commissioners and three mayors; Tampa, Plant City, and Temple Terrace,
and the chairman of HART. Just a member at that particular point in time.
Hearing what the consultant firm had to say and initially what we were
looking for, what we wanted to do, they made recommendations of
hearings and things like that. One of the things I made a recommendation
was we didn't have more hearings. The reason being was this. In 2010,
the focus that I could see was basically on the city of Tampa. It wasn't
really focused on outside of the city limits and I can vividly remember
when I was campaigning outside the city limits in unincorporated
Hillsborough County, the people said what I'm I getting out of this? And as
you know, it passed in Hillsborough County, failed in unincorporated
county, other cities. So my push was you got to have more public
hearings. Get out to the public in the other two cities and unincorporated
Hillsborough County to see what they want, what their needs are, if this is
going to be something that we can get passed. And that was one of the
main things that I pushed for at that particular point in time.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did you have any involvement in how the PLG or the TED Group
was formed? Like who would be members of that?
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MR. MILLER:
No. No. That was, I guess that was done by Mr. Merrill. Who the chair was
at that time, who was at that time the chair was probably.... Who was the
chair at that time? It wasn't... I don't think it was Murman.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Was it Commissioner Sharpe?
MR. MILLER:
Had to be Commissioner Sharpe. Probably it was Commissioner Sharpe

at that time. Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Alright. Now being that it had county commissions on there and
other members, elected officials, was there somebody that was kind of
head of that group that kind of... or did that kind of fall on the lines on
whoever the chair was.
MR. MILLER:
Whoever the chair was of the county commission basically was chair of
that group.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Alright.
MR. MILLER:
Yeah. And of course you had Mr. Merrill, who's staff and you had the
consulting firm, but the chair at that time was quote unquote the leader of
the group.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So kind of moving along to August 2014, that particular PLG

meeting, that meeting is the one as a group that you all told Mike Merrill
basically hey, let's get a private firm to help us with this project. If you kind
of remember that meeting. Do you remember if there was kind of a sense
of urgency about getting, I guess...? Because obviously the 2016 was kind
of the referendum time frame to get that on the ballot.
MR. MILLER:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is that why the PLG was formed to try to get this referendum, the one that
failed in 2010?
MR. MILLER:
Yeah...Well, I think that everyone knew... I say everyone. I'm talking about
all of us elected and Mr. Merrill that if we were going to have an initiative
on the ballot that we can get passed, it just wasn't going to be county
commissioners sitting on that group. We had to have the leadership of the
cities and HART, because HART was going to be the major thrust of
transportation in Hillsborough County. Okay? We would have more buses,
smaller buses, and city of Tampa was going to look at the rail system.
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Whatever the case may be and when it came to transportation when
you're carrying people, HART was going to be it. If it was came to better
roads or whatever the case may be, that was somebody else. But we
needed to have HART because they were the major thrust of
transportation, so that's why we had the chairman of HART. So that was
the concept of having a group that would have every representative,
elected body, or well yeah the HART chairs elected because he's a city
councilman on the PLG.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did it seem like there was a sense of urgency though going into that
meeting where Mike Merrill chose this method of how they were going to
pick an outside firm.
MR. MILLER:
I don't know if it was a sense of urgency per se. I think it was the fact that
we knew if we wanted to push something on the ballot, that 2016 was the
year to do it. 2014 was not the year. It was too late first and foremost. We
had to have 2016, so it wasn't a sense of urgency because we knew we
had a time frame to have the workshops, with the meetings in the
community, come back and get whatever information from those meetings
that whoever that consultant would be, bring that to us and then the PLG
would take the vote whether to put it on the ballot or not, but the ultimate
decision had to be with the county commission. So if it was an urgency
per se, yeah, we knew we had to get it done, but I don't think there was an
urgency as to say we got to have this particular consultant right now. The
concept of what I remember was this was the best one that we would
have to get the job done what we need to have done and that was those
hearings, putting together a plan, looking at what we need to have done to
hopefully get it passed by the PLG and the commission to get on the ballot
in 2016.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Were you aware of how the selection process would occur?
Ultimately, Parsons is chosen, but were you aware of how that process
was going to be?
MR. MILLER:
Not really. No. I wasn't in on that RFP, if ever there was one. The only
thing we knew, I knew was that Mike Merrill came forth and said that
Parsons was the most capable one of doing what we needed to do and it
was a unanimous vote to get it done. There was no dissension at all.
Negative vote for Parsons. Then the vote for Parsons, he came forth,
introduced them, Parsons laid out their plan, and every member of that
PLG agreed that Parsons should be the group. There was no negative
vote on that at all.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Now prior to that, you're aware of the vendor list where there were
the 10 vendors for the general service contracts.
MR. MILLER:
Right. Right. Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And that was the list that they looked at. So you were aware of who was in
the running?
MR. MILLER:
No. I don't remember who was in the running.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Or if that was even going to be the method that Mike had chosen.
MR. MILLER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So that was something that you found out later on obviously after it
happened.
MR. MILLER:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Were you given a list of the possible firms that were... prior to Parsons
being selected, if you knew who the top 4 might have been?
MR. MILLER:
I can't remember if we got a list or not. I have to go back and ask staff, my
staff, if they have something on file. I don't remember if we got a list or not.
I honestly don't remember.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And as a commissioner, and I've asked the other ones, you hold yourself
to a higher standard.
MR. MILLER:
I try my very best.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And if you know that someone's in the running for a particular job, is it
appropriate as a commissioner to tell the person who's making the
selection, hey, I think you should choose this firm or I don't think you
should choose this firm.
MR. MILLER:
I would never do that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MR. MILLER:
Mike Merrill has responsibility that we give him. He works for us. And we
gave him... this is my eyes. I gave him the responsibility to go out and find
the best firm possible and make that recommendation to us as to who that
firm should be. I would not have and did not call Mike, email Mike, text
Mike, sent carrier pigeon to Mike and say I want you to hire this firm. That
was not my responsibility. The responsibility was to have Mike come back
to us and say this is the firm I feel is the best one to get the job done, to
have the public hearings that you want to have, put together a plan for
what you here out there and we vote on it up or down if we agree with it.
Not to tell Mike who to hire.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But it would be... is it a common practice for a commissioner to do that? Is

that an appropriate...?
MR. MILLER:
I don't know because I can't talk for those commissioners.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But that's nothing that you do?
MR. MILLER:
Never. No. Not at all.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And with the media reports and things that have come out,
obviously that's kind of why we're here today is how that started. Some
texts that have been released, there are some texts Sandy Murman to
Mike Merrill during the selection process not to pick HDR. Are you aware
of problems that she's had with HDR?
MR. MILLER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MILLER:
I'm not aware and didn't know anything about the texts until the press did
the public records request and found them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So if there is a text, well there is a text from Sandy Murman to Mike
Merrill saying I'm asking you not to pick HDR.
MR. MILLER:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What they did on Tampa Bay Water was criminal.
MR. MILLER:
Okay.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Does that seem like an appropriate action for a commissioner to do?
MR. MILLER:
You know, for me to sit here and say that it's appropriate, not appropriate,
it's not appropriate for me. I can't speak for Sandy Murman.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. MILLER:
That's her decision to do that. That's her belief. It's not mine. I would not
have done it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Are you aware of any influence that a commissioner, or a PLG

member had on the selection of Parsons?
MR. MILLER:
Outside of the texts that she sent?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. MILLER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Any other commissioner or PLG member that tried to influence the
selection of Parsons?
MR. MILLER:
I don't know that. I don't know that. Believe me, coming from the
legislature to the county commission, Sunshine law was very difficult.
Legislature we didn't do that. Here my wife warned me and adhered to it
wholeheartedly because I don't want to violate the Sunshine law by talking
to a commissioner, even if it's how you doing? We speak in the hallway,
but specifically when it comes to issues. That's, you know, as I've heard
before, Sunshine Law keeps you in the dark and it does, so we can't talk
until we get out there on that day, so I don't talk to any of them about
anything like that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did it seem like with this particular project, because it was such a
big issue with transportation needs and this is a big deal, that you all as
commissioners or as members of the PLG kind of took extra steps to
make sure you were following Sunshine?
MR. MILLER:
I would say so. I thought we were. I know I was. I didn't talk to anyone;
either the county commissioners or mayors or the chair of HART at all
about this. I only talked to staff; Mike Merrill and Lucia Garcys and the
consultant. I can't think of the gentleman that was leading the whole thing.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Herb Marlowe?
MR. MILLER:
Herb.... Was it Herb Marlowe?
CPL. HOLLIS:
As far as the PLG?
MR. MILLER:
No. Yeah, I had the person from Parsons that was the lead guy there.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, well, you had....
DET. PORTALATIN:
Walton, George Walton.
MR. MILLER:
George Walton's his name. Yeah. He was....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Or Bob Clifford?
MR. MILLER:
Either one. They we would come in with Mike Merrill or with Mike Merrill
and whomever else was staff. We would talk with them in my office.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MILLER:
About what they were doing, the findings, what we expected to have the
next meeting, look over the agenda, have I have any questions. That kind
of thing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And this is after Parsons was selected?
MR. MILLER:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And Beth Leytham has been a focus of the media and this
investigation. When did you first meet her?
MR. MILLER:
Don't know her. Never met her.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You've never met her?
MR. MILLER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MILLER:
Well, let me put it like this. I may have, don't remember.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MILLER:
But during this whole process, no. If she walked in that door right now I
wouldn't know who she is.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright. So are you... has she ever approached you as a lobbyist?
MR. MILLER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, we do... one of the things that we did was we looked at the lobbying
records, which we found a number of forms that were incomplete and then
how they were filled out and I know that's not your responsibility as
commissioner and there may be some changes, you know, down the road
with that. But let's see, this one she came to see you it looks like January
of 2013.
MR. MILLER:
Beth did?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Beth Leytham. Yeah. She came in and saw Sandy and then she put you
down as well. And when we found this out, this is probably dealing with
the Bass Pro Shop.
MR. MILLER:
Bass Pro Shop. She come to see me about Bass Pro Shop? Have to go
back and look at the calendar.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I mean, yes, sir. I understand this is a couple of years ago and she didn't
fill out this form completely. She didn't even say who she's representing,
what subject matter.
DET. PORTALATIN:
And we're also aware that at times people can fill these forms out, but
there's nothing to confirm that yes, that's in fact what she did that day. It's
just what she wrote down.
MR. MILLER:
I'd have to go back and look at my appointment list and see if she did. I
don't remember her coming in at all.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MILLER:
Specifically on Bass Pro Shop. The only people I talked to about Bass Pro
Shop was Bass Pro people themselves.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MR. MILLER:
Because I had a point I wanted to make with them before they built that in
my district, but I don't remember her coming in to talk to me at all about
Bass Pro Shop.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Thank you. And she also saw it looks like Commissioner Sharpe on
the same matter, but other than that she's never come to you?
MR. MILLER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Has she ever given you advice?
MR. MILLER:
Never. No. Never talked to her.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Never talked to her. Okay. Obviously, she was hired as a subcontractor for
Parsons as the main public relations person. Are you aware if she ever
represented Parsons for any other matter?
MR. MILLER:
I didn't know she was selected by Parsons until the news media broke it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MILLER:
I didn't have any idea she was working for Parsons.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Very good. How do you make sure that you, I guess, are following
the Sunshine Laws? Do you go through training or just get with Chip
Fletcher?
MR. MILLER:
Well, we went through... I went through training with... what's her name?
She's a county attorney.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Mary Helen Ferris.
MR. MILLER:
Mary Helen Ferris; through training with her when we first got elected to
talk about Sunshine Law and what we could and could not do, but I had it
before the legislature. No different, because like I said, we get behind
closed doors legislature talk all night long. Can't do that here. But she
gave... we had specific training when I first came her in November 2010.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Okay.
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MR. MILLER:
And I think we have in our orientation, commissioner orientation and
books up there, if you want to look at it, you can always pull it out to see
what it is if I call her and say look, what... is this good or is this bad? Can I
do this? Can I do that? I always do that because I don't want to overstep
and getting myself in trouble.
CPL. HOLLIS:
In speaking with former Commissioner Sharpe, he mentioned at the

meetings you'll have your rule book there making sure that you're
following things.
MR. MILLER:
I'm a rule guy. Yeah. I've always been you got to.... When I came here
they didn't have that. I mean, they would just... they would make a motion
and have all kind of talk between them before I had a second. You can't do
that. So I became the guy that they talk about doing the rules. I have the
parliamentary rules on my desk and I try my best to make sure they follow
them. Those rules when we came here we appointed a committee that I
chaired that put together the rules of the commission and it also says that
if we have any doubt of our rules, fall back on rules of order. That's the
way I am.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. No. And we've noticed that in some of the meetings we've watched.
MR. MILLER:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Where you've kind of wait, wait, wait. You can't do that. You got to do that.
MR. MILLER:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So very good. Are there any ethics concerns or issues that you've seen
involving the Go Hillsborough?
MR. MILLER:
No, I haven't seen any, I mean outright seen any, but just like I told.... We
had this debate in the commission meeting. Personally, I don't think Mike
Merrill did anything we didn't tell him to do. When he brought Parsons to
us, we voted for him to hire Parsons as a consultant. Now I didn't know
anything about Beth Leytham being on board until the press broke that,
but if we voted on that contract and she was part of it, then we voted on
her to be in there. But I don't think Mike Merrill did anything wrong at all.
The commissioners and the 3 mayors and the HART president the HART,
chairman, we voted for Mike Merrill to do exactly what he was told to do,
so if anything went wrong in that, you just can't fault or blame Mike Merrill.
I'm not sying anything was wrong.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. MILLER:
It was us. Mike Merrill didn't say yea or nay. He doesn't push that green
and red button out there. We're the ones that do that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Now as far as contracts go, do you all typically get involved with who
subcontractors are?
MR. MILLER:
I don't ever recall us being involved with contractors. No, we vote as a

commission many times on the agenda contracts, but if the staff comes up
and tells us we're wanting a huge pump to this firm for $1.3 million and
here we have the same motions made, we pass on it. That's it. I never got
involved in any contracts. The only thing I've ever done when I came here
was I think our EO office was to me not equipped to handle what they
needed to be doing to make sure that we had... not EO, MB office
adequate minorities doing business and one of the things I pushed for was
getting a computer system in place, making sure we had those minority
businesses in a database and hopefully we can get more minorities doing
jobs. I didn't even involved who they did that with and I never will.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Very good. A couple more things. It's easy to Monday morning quarterback
on situations, but is there anything that you would change if you could do
it all over again with how the process occurred?
MR. MILLER:
Since there's been such a uproar about Beth Leytham, I probably

would've asked that if she was hired on as a subcontractor being... don't
want to call it subcontractor, subconsultant with Parsons that would've
come to us and we would've known about it, but that's only because the
mere fact is that someone somewhere saw her name down making
$180,000 and has a good relationship with some of the commissioners
and Mayor Bob Buckhorn that it would've come back to us. Other than
that, I think everything we did was proper. My objective and I think, well, I
should say... I can't speak for the other members of the Policy Leadership
Group, was to get feedback from people in this community about what
they wanted to have if we're going to tax them. My only thing is is that we
as elected officials shouldn't be saying yea or nay to know ever they let
you vote on the tax. Let the people decide if they want to tax themselves.
If they say no, we did our very best. If they say yes, okay, we got another
job to do. But the entire process... the only thing I would say since it came
out was if they would have... I think they probably should have come back
to us and said okay, going to hire Beth Leytham as a subcontractor for PR;
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whatever she's going to do and let us say okay, yea or nay on that. But
hindsight's 20/20.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. And because.... I mean, yes, she's making, you know, $280,000
based on the contract, but if you hire Parsons and Parsons is given so
much money, what they do with that money is really not a concern as long
as the end product is, you know, what they're hired to do.
MR. MILLER:
And we never, as far as I can remember, we never go back and say you
know, you are a construction company and we pay you $2.3 million dollars
to do whatever and you go out and hire him as a subcontractor. We don't
get involved in that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. MILLER:
We never do get involved in that. That's between you all. The only way we
get involved in that is if you don't pay him and he comes to us, well, I say
us, our staff and our staff may come back and say we're now going to
reject that contract because you haven't done what you're doing and then
we vote to reject it. Other than that, no.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And if Beth Leytham is qualified to do the job that she's hired to
do....
MR. MILLER:
Then so be it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. Okay.
MR. MILLER:
If she wasn't qualified, then I mean.... I think the whole concept in this is
number one, she's paid a lot of money. Number two, she had a
relationship with some of the commissioners and I'm thinking Bob
Buckhorn. Okay? I think that's the major factor there. And the other factor
is that you got a group of people out there who don't want to have a tax on
the ballot. I mean, there are a group of conservatives who don't want to
have anything there for people to vote on. They don't want to say let the
people vote on it and they find any little point to blow this whole thing up
and my thing is don't blow it up. Let the people decide if they want to get
taxed. I just saw a letter today from a gentleman down in South County
who, you know, he says he's probably a conservative Republican; I'm just
saying that, South County he said the traffic is so bad, let me decide if I
want to vote on this or not. That's what I've been pushing. You know.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Very good. Now with the Pinellas County Greenlight initiative that failed, it
seems like a lot of people that were against that are the same ones that
are making waves here in the county. Were you... I guess involved in the
Pinellas one where you were keeping track of anything over there?
MR. MILLER:
Yeah, I read the papers. That wasBasically it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MILLER:
Basically it and we kinda of knew it was going to fail because I don't think
they did it properly. There was some missteps that they made. You kind of
get the idea this is going down.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So you think the method that was used by Parsons and the county going
out to the community and talking to them would be good then?
MR. MILLER:
I think it was the best method we possibly could have and we asked them.
We had some meetings. We went back and asked Parsons again, add
more. We had more meetings because we wanted to go back out there
and make sure that we hear everything that the customer is saying; the
customer being our constituents. Everything that they're saying that they
want or do not want, go back and ask them again and bring it back to us.
Then the rich got thrown in and at this point, who knows what's going to
happen.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MILLER:
The PLG Group voted to bring us as the commission to vote on it and next
month I guess we will and we'll see what happens.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes, sir. If these detectives have any questions, is that okay?
MR. MILLER:
Sure. Sure.
DET. PORTALATIN:
I don't have any, follow ups.
DET. CLARK:
My question would be how when a person comes to speak to you as a

consultant or a lobbyist, do they introduce themselves and say I'm
representing this principle or what's the....
MR. MILLER:
What they normally would do is they contact my office and Larry Williams
handled my calendar. He handles most of the calendars..always tell them
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I'm coming in to talk about the Lightning; I'm coming to talk about
whatever, and so that's when he puts it on my calendar. He puts an
appointment in the notes. He puts down and tells me what they want and
so when they come in, I know what they want to talk about.
DET. CLARK:
Okay.
MR. MILLER:
Now, they supposed to register out there.
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir.
MR. MILLER:
I don't know if they do or not.
DET. CLARK:
Okay. And we saw today someone registered and it was an incomplete file
or incomplete record. What changes do you think are coming or
necessary for... to make sure that we're able to reconstruct contacts so
that it'll be properly represented in Sunshine?
MR. MILLER:
Well, we, we being the Board of County Commissioners just passed

something last month that was brought forth. I can't remember exactly
what it was. I think it was tailored after what the state does. And the state,
what you have to do is register as a lobbyist, put down your clients, and
that's put on the database, so you can go and find exactly what a person
does. You can go in by their name or go by their clients, whatever the
case may be. I think that's what we did. I'll have to go back and ask Mike
Merrill what that is. That's probably the best way to tighten it up, but the
fact of the matter is is that those people... the ladies out there they should
be either... but they don't work for us; they work for the Clerk of the Court,
making sure that whoever comes through and fills out that form fills it out
adequately. Now if they put my name down to lobby, after they get behind
those closed doors they don't have to come see me, which I don't
remember Beth Leytham coming to see me in 2013 to talk about Bass
Pro. But I think that those are the two steps that we need to make; one if
we able to put it online which is going to cost some money to do that and
making sure that the Clerk of the Court, make sure that her people out
there that when a person comes in to talk to a commissioner they fill that
form out and fill it out completely. The catch is, once they go behind those
closed doors, they put down Commissioner Miller and they go see
Commissioner Crist and never come see Commissioner Miler. We have
no control over that.
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DET. CLARK:
But my other question will be about training. When people are elected to
the board, are there any changes going to come forth in training as far as
making sure that everybody's up on where they should be and Sunshine?
You said that there was a difference between the state and the county.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, because the county is more intense... I shouldn't
say more intense, have to get more into Sunshine Law. I had some in
2010. I haven't had any since that particular point in time. The only new
member that's been on board since 2010, is Commissioner White, so I
don't know he received then. But I would say that we probably... and that
comes out of Chip Fletcher's office with Mary Helen Ferris to make sure
that we have some intense training on... probably all of us again, on the
Sunshine Law. Especially after 2016, because we will have a new
member come on board in 2016, that maybe all of us need to get training
again on the Sunshine Law. Now, would that prohibit someone from doing
something silly? No.
DET. CLARK:
And another question will be because texts now are in the media where
we're showing conversations away from the commissioner or away from
there and there's a lot of informal talk commingling with business talk.
What method of keeping communication, which will be electronic
communications; emails and people seem to be more inline with keeping
emails because of the county system.
MR. MILLER:
Right.
DET. CLARK:
But text on a personal phone, what would be the method of keeping a text
if someone...?
MR. MILLER:
Well, first and foremost, I don't know what the law says about texts on
personal phones. If that's our personal property or if it's open to Sunshine.
You know, my phone is not a county phone. It's my personal phone, which
I don't use it for texting. I text my staff here, but I don't text anyone outside
of my staff. If I'm not in the office, I might say... the text will say would you
please send me whatever whatever. We don't have phones that come
back to our offices. If I need something from the staff there's a button out
there, text them takes too long, I need you to come see me right away. But
how to control that on a personal phone, I don't know. I don't know the law
that well to know what that law says about a personal text. If you're doing
business on your own personal phone, I guess if it's county business, I
guess the Sunshine Law does apply and then you got to be careful about
what you put on there. Me, besides my staff here, I don't use my personal
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Case No: 2015-691857
phone for texting or anything. All mine is email and email, this email that's
also on my phone because I can email from my phone and that's... I know
that's open because it's all right here. It's synced together.
DET. CLARK:
The reason why I asked that question was because there is a belief that
whether or not the communication is typing via text, an email, or personal
phone call, that that communication for some reason is not under
Sunshine, but if it was just a natural conversation between two folk, then it
would be let's say the same conversation would be a Sunshine
conversation. And my question is if a conversation was a natural person to
person conversation, face-to-face conversation, then it would need to be
Sunshined, what's the difference between it being a text or an email or a
tweet? It's a conversation regardless of the method....
MR. MILLER:
Well, that's true. It is a conversation, it's just that emails are one thing.
Texts and tweets, which I don't know how to tweet, I guess a text would
have to be part of that same conversation, but the fact of the matter then
comes into play and this is where the law gets... you probably start looking
deeper and deeper into the law, is that... is that text on your personal
phone covered by Sunshine? We know that these are because this is
government property and we're using government property as emails. The
texts, I don't know. It's tough to answer that question.
DET. CLARK:
Right. And that's a legal question that we're all going to get an answer to.
MR. MILLER:
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
DET. CLARK:
I think that's it for me.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Just to go along. It's not necessarily what equipment is being used or if it's
county property, it's the conversation, so if the conversation is county
business, even though there's not.... Emails are easy because it goes into
a database and that's it.
MR. MILLER:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Texts on the other hand, there has to be an initiation by that person to

save it.... Mike Merrill we found has been very good at it. He downloads
his phone. He'd give it to his staff or himself and he plugs it into his
computer and it dumps all the texts and then they're saved and some
other commissioners might do that as well, so there's... the commissioner
or the elected official has to take it upon themselves to save certain
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Case No: 2015-691857
records or they'll take a picture of it or something like that, so that's what
we found. What is your preferred method of communication?
MR. MILLER:
With...?
CPL. HOLLIS:
In dealing with county business?
MR. MILLER:
Email or phone.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So text message is not. And I know when we had requested texts,
we got an answer from your office that you had nothing.
MR. MILLER:
Yeah. The only text I'll do is with my staff here and usually that's, you
know, send me an email or send me something or whatever and that's
very, very, very, very seldom because I can email them from my phone. If
I'm home, and this week my wife had surgery. This is the first day I'm at
my office, I email them from my phone, which is the same email here.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And there's certain messages that aren't covered, that are exempt, like
what time are we meeting today or you know, little short messages like
that, but when they're really descriptive about county business about a
certain issue or maybe a certain vote or what have you that would be....
MR. MILLER:
Oh, no. I never....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Or even particularly like the texts that we referred to with Commissioner

Murman, because it's dealing with...
MR. MILLER:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
During that time frame, the date and time. Talking about HDR.
MR. MILLER:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
HDR was in the running, so obviously that was Sunshine.
MR. MILLER:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But anyway. Okay. Any other questions, Trent?
DET. CLARK:
No. That was it for me.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
I appreciate it very much. If we had a question down the road, could we
approach you again, sir?
MR. MILLER:
Sure. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright.
MR. MILLER:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I'll stop the recording. The time is 10:24 a.m.
End of interview.
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Attachment Description: LIANA LOPEZ INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:
For: 4602

2015-691857
Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222493, interview Liana Lopez, Chief
Communications Administrator
CPL. HOLLIS:
Today is October 22, 2015. The time is 9:57 a.m. This is Corporal Charles
Hollis, ABN 5603, Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office. Also present for
this interview, ma'am, if you would state your first and last name.
MS. LOPEZ:
Liana Lopez.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. LOPEZ:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And that's with your permission?
MS. LOPEZ:
Yes. With my permission.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And also present.
DET. PORTALATIN:
DET. CLARK:
CPL. HOLLIS:

investigation by the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office. We are on the
26th floor of the county building downtown. Ma'am, would you raise your
right hand for me?
MS. LOPEZ:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you swear or affirm the information you will provide today is the truth,
MS. LOPEZ:
I do.
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Case No: 2015-691857
Re: Interview of Liana Lopez
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Put your hand down. Thank you. As a way of introductions, just tell
us a little bit about yourself, what's your title here.
MS. LOPEZ:
Sure. I am Chief Communications Administrator for Hillsborough County. I

oversee the Communications and Digital Media Department and the
Customer Service and Support Department.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And how long have you been in that capacity?
MS. LOPEZ:
I started with the county May 2014. I think May 21st was my first day.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, okay. May 21, 2014?
MS. LOPEZ:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And prior to that?
MS. LOPEZ:
Prior to that I was with Visit Tampa Bay, the tourism agency and I was
there probably about a year and a half and I was.... What was my title? I
think director of communications.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So communications has been your forte, I guess more or less.
MS. LOPEZ:
Yes. For about 20 years.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So I guess obviously you know why we're here with this Go
Hillsborough project. Mike Merrill has reached out to the Sheriff's Office to
conduct an investigation into the whole process. So just kind of.... What
was your involvement? You started May 2014? That was after the PLG
was formed.
MS. LOPEZ:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
After the procurement of the companies down from 53 to the 10.
MS. LOPEZ:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So kind of what was your involvement?
MS. LOPEZ:
So at first I wasn't very involved and they used to have these TED I think
the name was. Before it became Go Hillsborough it was TED;
Transportation for Economic Development. And they used to have these
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Case No: 2015-691857
managers group meetings, but I wasn't involved in that. I probably
attended my first one late June, early July and it was at the time we had a
list of projects and we were going to hold the media round table and
present them to the press. So I think I attended a meeting or two before
we held that round table and then I started to attend those monthly, I think,
meetings they were.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And then to the point where I guess in the meeting of August the
12th, 2014, when the board directed Mike Merrill to select a firm to help
with that. Were you at that meeting or were you involved in that?
MS. LOPEZ:
Well, I attended the meeting and Mike directed that and then he came up
to me immediately following the meeting and said he wanted to make sure
that I realized that it wasn't that we didn't have the skill sets we just had
other things to do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Was that a concern of yours?
MS. LOPEZ:
No. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Was he... I guess, just wanted to make sure....
MS. LOPEZ:
Yeah. I mean, I was a new employee, so...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, up to that point, what had been your involvement? Because I know
Mike had mentioned you all were out there in the community talking to
people, trying to....
MS. LOPEZ:
It was prior to my....
CPL. HOLLIS:
So you were involved in any of that?
MS. LOPEZ:
No. I think those outreach meetings were.... We put a timeline together on

our website, which I don't know if you guys have seen it. But I had my
team go back because I had team members that were involved that are in
one of the departments. So I had them go back and I just wanted to be as
transparent as possible, so a few weeks ago we put everything on there.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. LOPEZ:
Clips of meetings and so I think they did those in 2013 maybe they started
those community outreach meetings, but that was prior to my....
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And in your involvement with communication, even before the

county, did you...? When did you first meet Beth Leytham?
MS. LOPEZ:
Oh, I met Beth Leytham back in... it had to be 2003, 2004 when I was
working for the city of Tampa. I worked for Pam Iorio. I was at first her
special assistant. Then I became her communications manager and then I
was Director of Public Affairs for the city. So I met Beth I think when I was
serving with Special Assistant Wall for Mayor Pam and she was involved
with Steve Anderson and the Riverwalk.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. LOPEZ:
So I came across a meeting or two, but then she wasn't involved anymore
from my perspective.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, okay. Did you ever... were you ever involved in the Invision project?
MS. LOPEZ:
No. That was after. I left the city when Mayor Pam left.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. LOPEZ:
So I tended my resignation.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright. So you met her back '03, '04, Beth, and then when did you
become involved with her again?
MS. LOPEZ:
The next time I saw Beth that I recall was the day we were going to do the
unveiling for the media here in July, where we were going to unveil those
projects; the PLG group.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. LOPEZ:
She showed up with Commissioner Mark Sharpe and wanted to attend

and I told her it was closed to the general public because we also had
members of the public. We were in a small conference room. The press
was there. So public would have access to it, but that it wasn't going to
have anyone else at the table that wasn't Mike or one of the staff, you
know, on staff.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So whether they were a subcontractor of anybody in particular?
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Case No: 2015-691857
MS. LOPEZ:
Yeah. I don't know. She just showed up with Commissioner Sharpe. I
guess....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Now when you saw July, are you talking about most recent July; like a few
months ago?
MS. LOPEZ:
No. I'm talking about July last year.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Of 2014. So before Parsons was even selected.
MS. LOPEZ:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
She just showed up.
MS. LOPEZ:
Yeah. July of last year. I think it was July. It's on, I guess, the timeline. I
don't remember the exact date, but it was in July we unveiled. We did a
media round table unveiling where we had, where I guess the
transportation effort had gone and where we were at that point; how many
projects. Just to kind of bring the media up-to-date and be transparent as
to where we were in the process. There was a scroll that was unrolled at
the meeting with all the projects.
CPL. HOLLIS:
A pretty extensive list I guess.
MS. LOPEZ:
It was a pretty extensive list, so she showed up right before that and I, you
know, I let her know she wasn't able to stay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. LOPEZ:
That it wasn't open to the public.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. LOPEZ:
It wasn't a public meeting.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you know why she was there?
MS. LOPEZ:
I don't know why she was there.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did she appear to be representing anybody?
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Case No: 2015-691857
MS. LOPEZ:
Not that I'm aware of. I don't know. She turned to Commissioner Sharpe
and she said she won't let me stay and Commissioner Sharpe looked at
me and he goes what? I said well, I had other members of the public that
wanted to attend. Kevin Thurman and I said I didn't want to have anybody
there that wasn't a staff member. I didn't think it was appropriate at this
time and then she left.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. When did Commissioner Sharpe... when was he replaced?
MS. LOPEZ:
The election last November.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Last November. Okay. And some of the things that we received are some
text that hopefully you can put some context into.
MS. LOPEZ:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, we'll get to that in just a minute. So then after that part in July, when
was the next time that you saw her?
MS. LOPEZ:
The next time I saw Beth was at Parsons... the first meeting with Parsons
that we went to group meeting that I was invited to.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Okay. When was that?
MS. LOPEZ:
October I think.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So after they had already been selected and then.... Alright. Who
was at that meeting?
MS. LOPEZ:
Lucia, John, and Eric Johnson, Bonnie Wise, Mike Merrill, myself, Brian
Bollas from PB, George Walton from PB, I think Jane Duncan from the city
of Tampa. It was one of the big first group meetings.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you report directly to Mike?
MS. LOPEZ:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is that your main boss?
MS. LOPEZ:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. How often do you, I guess, meet with him?
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Case No: 2015-691857
MS. LOPEZ:
We have a one on one once a month.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Once a month?
MS. LOPEZ:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Just to discuss....
MS. LOPEZ:
Yeah. We meet individually because... individually probably like once a

month.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
MS. LOPEZ:
Maybe twice a month. I might like pop in his office if something happened
with the press and talk to him about it. But formal meetings once a month.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So you're basically the go-between between the press and Mike or
things like that?
MS. LOPEZ:
Yeah. But they call him directly, too.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I'm sure they do.
MS. LOPEZ:
They got his number.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So in August 2014 when the PLG directs Mike to go forward and
then he comes to you and he, you know, says it's not because we're not
qualified... or we just need to kind of reach out.
MS. LOPEZ:
Yeah. We just need something.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Were you involved in who was selected...
MS. LOPEZ:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
To eventually select Parsons? Were you involved in that process

whatsoever?
MS. LOPEZ:
Nope.
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Are you aware of any influence from inside sources, outside sources to
select Parsons?
MS. LOPEZ:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you know who made the decision on Parsons?
MS. LOPEZ:
I've been told I think John Lyons made the recommendation.
CPL. HOLLIS:
To Mike?
MS. LOPEZ:
To Mike.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And Mike had the final say before it was presented to the board
MS. LOPEZ:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
and they approved everything?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Were you aware if Beth Leytham was under a contract with Parsons
prior to the Go Hillsborough initiative?
MS. LOPEZ:
I was not.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. In your dealing with Beth, which have been somewhat limited but
you've had, if you knew that she was would you have approached her
differently?
MS. LOPEZ:
You mean beforehand?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Mm-hmm.
MS. LOPEZ:
Well, I didn't really deal with her. I mean I didn't really deal with her except
for that one interaction in July.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. LOPEZ:
So I wouldn't have gone to her for anything knowing, you know. If I had
known that and that was a recommendation, I probably would've said
maybe we should look at everybody and do a....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. That's fine.
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Case No: 2015-691857
MS. LOPEZ:
But I wasn't aware of it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
As far as these texts go.
MS. LOPEZ:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Some, yeah, some do have dates. March 13th, so I assume this is 2014?
MS. LOPEZ:
This is all this year. Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So then after the Go Hillsborough project began and Parsons is hired on,
they hire on Beth as a subcontractor, what was your involvement with
that?
MS. LOPEZ:
I was involved at the beginning and then probably like February time
frame I was no longer invited to attend the meetings.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, okay.
MS. LOPEZ:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright. You know why that was?
MS. LOPEZ:
I don't.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh. Was that a surprise to you that you were involved in it?
MS. LOPEZ:
No. I mean, she'd really taken the lead role in the communications part, so
I understand that and I was kind of thankful because we had so much on
our plate here. So you know, I was fine with that. We had... I did have my
special assistant at the... she was still attending the meetings.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. LOPEZ:
Lori Hudson.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Lori Hudson.
MS. LOPEZ:
She's been my special assistant since we did the re-org October 1st of
2014 and she's really just been assigned to Go Hillsborough project.
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Very good. So there were times it looks like you reach out to her. I
don't think I really really need any context with this one. I think it's pretty
self explanatory. This Salinero.
MS. LOPEZ:
Mike Salinero. He's a reporter with the Tampa Tribune.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. LOPEZ:
He covers the county beat.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Very good. And you were asking somebody from Parsons to go on
record about a particular subject, so....
MS. LOPEZ:
Yeah. It was the tele-town hall meetings.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
MS. LOPEZ:
And how the mechanics of them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And then it looks like you all kind of go back and forth on kind of
ideas of, I don't know, slogans or....
MS. LOPEZ:
We were moving into the second round of meetings for that first two and
so to drive attendance, we were looking for something to put on the
meeting signs that are out in the neighborhoods and my team does those
signs so we wanted to put something across that basically would show
people that it's a different meeting that's been happening the last two
months.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is Bonnie Wise part of your team?
MS. LOPEZ:
No. Bonnie Wise is the Chief Financial Officer for the county.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. LOPEZ:
So she's my counterpart, but over finance.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. This here. Do you.. looked that up.
MS. LOPEZ:
No. It was a link to an article that probably Mitch Perry had posted related
to Go Hillsborough.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. LOPEZ:
She was... in her role, I think she always sent like clips and stuff, so...
usually by email if that one happened to be by text.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What was your normal communication with Beth Leytham; on the phone,
in person?
MS. LOPEZ:
Email.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Email? So text message was sometime used?
MS. LOPEZ:
This was the only... these are the only text messages ever.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. LOPEZ:
Unless between October and December, I had a different county issued

cell phone.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you receive the stipend?
MS. LOPEZ:
I do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You do. Alright. But my understanding they don't issue... do they issue cell
phones now?
MS. LOPEZ:
You can. When I started since I had been at the city, I had to two cell
phones. I had a personal and a work related. So when I started with the
county, I did the personal and the work; however, reporters were still
calling me on the personal and texting the personal because that's where I
had done business when I had my own firm and was Visit Tampa Bay, was
using that phone between 2011 and my time at the county. So I just... it
was just easier than trying to then track the personal and the work.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MS. LOPEZ:
I just got rid of the work and went to the stipend.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. How would you describe your relationship with Beth?
MS. LOPEZ:
I think it's fine. It's professional. We don't have a personal relationship.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you all attend the same bar class or meet for dinner and drinks and
things like that?
MS. LOPEZ:
No. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Outside of the Go Hillsborough thing, you all really didn't have much...?
MS. LOPEZ:
Interaction.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Now you mentioned you had your own firm.
MS. LOPEZ:
I had a PR firm for... I launched it right after I left the city. It was focused
on... I wound up with a lot of finance clients, but it was from 2011 to... I
closed it 2013 maybe and I worked with athletes, Mayor Pam was one of
my clients. I had a couple of accounting firms. Was in speech writing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Was Beth Leytham... Beth Leytham ever...?
MS. LOPEZ:
No. The only firm that outsourced work to me was Schifino Lee.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh. Okay. Alright. Are you aware of any ethical issues?
MS. LOPEZ:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Particularly with the Go Hillsborough project, the selection of Parsons?
MS. LOPEZ:
I wasn't involved in the selection, so not to my knowledge.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But even just in rumblings and rumors and things like that?
Obviously, this investigation was spurned because of Noah Pransky.
MS. LOPEZ:
I mean, yeah, and I deal with the reporters, so I've read all the articles.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MS. LOPEZ:
I mean, that's what I do, so that's what I know.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you have a relationship with Noah?
MS. LOPEZ:
I mean, a professional relationship?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MS. LOPEZ:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. LOPEZ:
With Noah, Mike Deeson, most of the reporters.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Are you aware of where he got his sources from? Where he
launched this whole investigative report?
MS. LOPEZ:
I know that he had been collecting public records all over the public, the
public agencies; from the Expressway Authority to the city, to the county,
and in conversations he had said he has been working on a story for
about a year and that was after it aired. He told me I've been working on
this story for about a year.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. LOPEZ:
And it's not Go Hillsborough specific. My goal is not take down Go

Hillsborough. My goal is, you know, just to bring to light Beth's relationship
with the mayor and some other people that she was getting business.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And aside from the stories, are you aware of her relationships with
commissioners?
MS. LOPEZ:
I mean, I've heard that she has friendships with some of the
commissioners and with you know, the mayor, but outside of that....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I know Mike meets with the commissioners I think on a weekly

basis. Are there times when you would attend any of those meetings in
preparation for...?
MS. LOPEZ:
No. I attended... I'll attend every once in a while if it's something specific
that they've asked about related to communication. So I've attended one
with Commissioner Mike...uh White and Mike specifically that I recall.
Other than that, I usually have my own one on one with the
commissioners.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. LOPEZ:
Not regularly.
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright.
MS. LOPEZ:
But issue related.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Is there a particular commissioner you meet with more regularly?
MS. LOPEZ:
Well, probably the commissioner I hear the most from is Commissioner

Murman as chair just for coverage and making sure there's quotes and
news releases and that type of thing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I know there was a number of editorials that came out that she in August
after the PLG meeting that started Mike Merrill and the whole selection
process. Were you contacted about those editorials or...?
MS. LOPEZ:
No. Usually media will contact the commissioners directly to schedule an

interview with the commissioners. We've kind of try and keep that
separate because it's dicey for us as communications professionals for the
county if I offer advice to a commissioner on how to position something
and it doesn't.... I mean, that's their personal brand. That's their elected
official hat. I try not to get there. We try and just publicize things that are
countywide; actions that the commissioners take as a whole, or if they're
serving in a capacity as a commissioner. But we're very careful to make
sure that we're not crossing that line, especially if they are running for
reelection or something like that it could get dicey. So that's why we try
and keep that separation all the time so it doesn't seem like we do it
sometimes and not others when they would be....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Has there been a time then when you've given advice to a
commissioner on how you should approach a certain topic?
MS. LOPEZ:
No. I'll get.... The advice I give commissioners will say I'm going to do this
public meeting and do you think I should do it at this location or that
location or time? You know, that type of thing based on my experience.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. LOPEZ:
But not... never would I want to put words in a commissioner's mouth

because that's, you know, a dicey subject. So....
CPL. HOLLIS:
So like talking points, that wouldn't be something that you would...?
MS. LOPEZ:
Our Communications writes talking points, but I don't see them.
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. LOPEZ:
They work directly with the commissioners, the department, so.... And
usually it's for a county event.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So are the talking points anything that you have input on?
MS. LOPEZ:
I could if I wanted to, but we don't do talking points for commission

meetings or anything like that. I drafted one Op-ed for Commissioner
Murman in her role as chair and it was on economic development issue
and she rewrote the whole thing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh.
MS. LOPEZ:
Or someone did. I don't know.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But those weren't your words in essence.
MS. LOPEZ:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. LOPEZ:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright. That's all I have. And again, you're not aware of any outside or
inside influence to have Parsons chosen for this project?
MS. LOPEZ:
No. Not that I'm aware of. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did Beth..Are you aware of Beth Leytham trying to push Parsons to be

hired for this project?
MS. LOPEZ:
Not outside of the stories that I've read and no other story that I've seen,
but....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, that's the accusations he's making.
MS. LOPEZ:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Have... do you have...?
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Case No: 2015-691857
MS. LOPEZ:
So do I have any knowledge?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MS. LOPEZ:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Anything guys?
DET. CLARK:
No, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Any questions for us, ma'am?
MS. LOPEZ:
Mm-mmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
If we had a question in the future would you be available?
MS. LOPEZ:
Completely available.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Well, thank you very much.
MS. LOPEZ:
And my cell phones on my card so if you need to reach me.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I'll stop the recording. It's 10:17 a.m.
End of interview.
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Attachment Description: LUCIA GARSYS #1 INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:
For: 4602
2015-691857
Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222493, interview Lucia Garsys, Chief of
Development and Infrastructure
CPL. HOLLIS:
Charles Hollis. ABN is 5603. Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office. Also
present, ma'am, if you could state your full name, please.
MS. GARSYS:
Lucia Garsys.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Could you spell your last name?
MS. GARSYS:
G-a-r-s-y-s.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. GARSYS:
I am aware that the conversation is being recorded.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And that's with your permission?
MS. GARSYS:
It is with my permission.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Also present.
DET. PORTALATIN:
DET. CLARK:
CPL. HOLLIS:
And this interview being conducted this morning is in reference to the Go

Hillsborough investigation by the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office. This
interview is being conducted at the county building downtown. We're on
the 26th floor. Ma'am, just by way of introduction, can you I guess explain
your job duties and your title
MS. GARSYS:
Sure. The title is Chief of Infrastructure and Development or Development

and Infrastructure. It is one of the direct reports directly to Mike Merrill. I
am responsible for overseeing three departments that really do
Page 495 of 1954


SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
Re: Interview of Lucia Garsys
infrastructure stuff, so it would include Public Works, which includes a
transportation, storm water, and solid waste component. It includes Public
Utilities that have all the water, waste water, and reclaimed water
functions. As well, it includes development services, which is all the
permitting activity that goes on related to anything from entitlements that
deal with zoning, comprehensive plan related items, to site plan review,
subdivision review, and building, the building code.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is a fair title also that you're an assistant county administrator? Is that...?

I've heard that term before.
MS. GARSYS:
It is. I think we've somewhat... the terminology has been somewhat

confusing because there are assistants who don't report directly to Mike
Merrill, but report through the deputy county administrator, Greg
Horwedel.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
So I think in probably, if you read the charter, it would be one of the

assistance that reports directly. It is the common nomenclature.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And how long have you been in that current position?
MS. GARSYS:
Since Mike Merrill took office, so I'm somewhere in the 5 year range.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
I don't specifically.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. I believe March 2010 was kind of the time frame he gave us
yesterday.
MS. GARSYS:
And it changed a little bit during that time period. I don't know if that is
significant or not. But initially it included Code Enforcement and Facilities
and then in a reorganization that he did probably about two years ago.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
Don't quote me on those dates.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No, that's fine.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MS. GARSYS:
Do you need specific dates?
CPL. HOLLIS:
No. No. Just trying to get an idea of kind of your involvement with the
county and prior to.... In 2010, were you working for the county or where
were you?
MS. GARSYS:
I was. I've been with the county since November of '89.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
In various capacities. Mostly development related and then moving into

more infrastructure and kind of the merging of engineering finance
development.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I understand there was a similar initiative that, with the Go

Hillsborough project they tried in 2010.
MS. GARSYS:
Correct
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you have any involvement in that?
MS. GARSYS:
I had significant involvement in that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Could you shed light on that?
MS. GARSYS:
Yes. It was... there were... there was a task force that was organized.
Commissioner Hagan chaired the task force. I believe Mark Sharpe was
the vice chair at the time. And it was comprised... if we need the specific
numbers, I can get you those. But I'm thinking somewhere between... I
think each board member appointed two representatives. So I think we
had probably 14 to 15 people in that task force. A multi-year approach, but
the purpose was to assess and evaluate what the county's transportation
needs were back then. And initially, it just started as an assessment, but it
really did then result in the referendum that was programmed for
November of 2010 that was not successful.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
And my.... Just in response to your question, I was the one that worked
with Commissioner Hagan in what information do we want to present,
when are the meetings, all the logistics. So that was my role.
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And then obviously, we kind of jumped forward in some things that
occurred since then. Then in 2011, the procurement process began with
the 53 firms selected down to the 10.
MS. GARSYS:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is that a common practice?
MS. GARSYS:
It is. It's common not just on the transportation side. We have similar kinds
of consulting groups that go through the process in storm water and also
in development services and they are selected through.... The ones in the
planning are not subject to CCNA, but they are selected through a
process and in that case there were 5 of them that were selected and then
they are available to do work as needed so that we don't have to procure
each time.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because of the time constraint issue.
MS. GARSYS:
It's an efficiency....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
MS. GARSYS:
So if you go through it, you identify what the rates are going to be. You
identify what the general scope is. Within that master agreement and
master contract, then we have relied on that when we've needed someone
to do quick work, fast work, longer work, expertise, non-expertise. It really
does help move the process along.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And with a number... a pool that size of 53 firms that responded to the
request, is that a normal size? Have you all done larger?
MS. GARSYS:
I can't tell you what that ratio is..has been in the past. I'm trying to recall
where the engineering industry was in 2011. They may have been at that
point starting to be hungry for work and so... but I can't recall and can't tell
you that, but I can find out.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh. But again, the process that you all used, the procurement process is
something standard that you all use in different areas in selecting firms.
MS. GARSYS:
Yes. Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So this wasn't an unusual practice.
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Case No: 2015-691857
MS. GARSYS:
This is not an unusual practice.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What was your involvement In the procurement?
MS. GARSYS:
So in the 2011 procurement?
CPL. HOLLIS:
When the process got started. Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
Okay. So vaguely I think at some point that process was really lead by the
procurement office. I cannot tell you how directly involved I was. I mean I
probably signed the agenda item. We can find that. But it is based then on
a review from the procurement office and actually that agenda item I bet
went through procurement. They are the ones that do it and they're the
ones that have all of the protocols in place, the procedures in place to
ensure that that process is run specifically in this case in accordance to
the state statutes because that is different than some of the planning, but
it followed the procurement process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And just as your role in your position. Do you attend every board
meeting?
MS. GARSYS:
I either monitor or watch, but I am engaged in most of the board. I mean,

with the exception of being out of town. Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Would that include the Policy Leadership Group or the TED Group
that was formed?
MS. GARSYS:
So initially I was less involved in it when the TED Group started; less
involved and then became more involved as it needed tighter guidance. It
was initially conducted with leadership from an outside consultant called
Herb Marlow.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Herb Marlow. Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
And I think what became apparent in the process is that while Herb was
good at the procedural process facilitation piece. There needed to be
more of someone who was going to manage content that was delivered to
the Policy Leadership Group. It just got a little....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So were you kind of, you oversaw the agenda items and kind of
eliminated maybe certain things that weren't necessary before the group?
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Case No: 2015-691857
MS. GARSYS:
So...The TED Group?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Or the PLG.
MS. GARSYS:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Like you were saying you kind of took over for Herb because the content.
MS. GARSYS:
Well, I didn't do Herb's job.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
I became more involved on the transportation side. Prior to that, Mike

Williams and my shop almost interacted directly with Eric Johnson and
Herb Marlow.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
I was less involved in that. Just the way stuff happens. Sometimes you
need, you know, one of your staff people working directly.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
So in terms of guiding the Policy Leadership Group, that was not my role.
That was Herb's role. My role is how do we identify projects? How do we
work with the city? How do we get all these projects identified in these
various groups? How do we then take all this material and have it make
sense to people who aren't dealing with it. So that was more my role.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So then the process gets going. We see that the leadership group
was created and I talked to Mike yesterday, was the purpose of the
meeting or the group being made to try to get this 2010 effort that failed
back on the ballot?
MS. GARSYS:
I don't think it was the... my recollection was that that was not the initial
thought. The initial thought was really an educational process and it was
laborious and it was difficult because it was, you know, we had elected
officials who were sitting through two hours of multiple; here are the needs
in this area. Here are the needs in that area. So it really started as an
educational process initially to understand kind of what the purpose was.
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Case No: 2015-691857
At that time too, it was... the staff provided a lot of the identification of
needs. What are they? So , it started more as an educational process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But then eventually evolved into...?
MS. GARSYS:
Well, I think that the transition became as.... Okay, there's a whole lot of
needs out there.
CPL. HOLLIS:
How are we going to pay for it?
MS. GARSYS:
What are the funding sources? So there have been discussions on

funding sources, you know, since the last referendum. It just what are
they? You know, there is no more money.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. GARSYS:
I actually met Beth Leytham.... I'll have to give you the year, but there was
another initiative that proceeded the transportation task force and that was
an affordable housing task force that Commissioner Tom Scott shared. I
have to give you a year, but I'm like back to '08, '09. Somewhere in that
time frame.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
We can provide that time frame and she was part of the.... There was a
consultant hired from UF and there was an... and she was.... And I can't
tell you at that time how she was procured. I don't know that. But she
worked on managing the messaging because it was a very technical
report and so she assisted in writing the final report.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
To provide clarity and just common sense of purpose.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And did you have a working relationship with her at that time?
MS. GARSYS:
I worked with her. And here's the draft. Look at the draft. Does this make
sense? What is the...what are the academics trying to say?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MS. GARSYS:
So I kind of facilitated that conversation between the academics and her in
getting that report finished.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. What was the preferred method of communication between the two
of you?
MS. GARSYS:
Back then?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Mm-hmm.
MS. GARSYS:
Phone calls I think.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did you all ever meet face to face?
MS. GARSYS:
Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
She would attend the meetings.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, okay.
MS. GARSYS:
She attended the meetings. Sure. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And at that time she was hired by the county or subcontracted by...?
MS. GARSYS:
Yeah. And I can't recall what that contractual relationship was.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Okay. And since that time, what other projects has she...?
MS. GARSYS:
The transportation task force. She was involved. There were....
CPL. HOLLIS:
In 2010?
MS. GARSYS:
No. I think there were really two, kind of two subsets of that transportation
task force. One that met initially and then I don't recall if it was... there was
some break in between, but then the group came back and I think she
was involved in the first round.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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Case No: 2015-691857
MS. GARSYS:
Again, in a far... I think last.... I can't remember now if she was.... I was
going to say less engaged in the transportation group than she was in the
affordable housing, but I can't recall. But she was... my recollection was
she was working on that first phase of the transportation initiative.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And I guess, from a public relation standpoint, is that kind of what
her role may have been?
MS. GARSYS:
I think it was.... I don't know that public relations is what I would call it. It
again dealt with what are you trying to say here. How do you simplify this
message. So I don't know if that falls under the umbrella of public relations
or not, but it really was.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did she appear she was qualified to handle that from your memory?
MS. GARSYS:
Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
And I thought she did a very credible job on the affordable housing one.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I notice there were...some text messages to Mike Merrill dealing with

some housing issues, so that could explain that back then.
MS. GARSYS:
Yeah. I don't know. I don't know.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And did you all exchange cell phone numbers, so it's not uncommon
if she texted you or called you on the phone?
MS. GARSYS:
No. Well, so I don't have any recollection of any text messages. In

certainly the affordable housing. I don't even know if I was using text back
then. And not in the transportation one. It wasn't until this effort that there
were text messages.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And since you've been with the county since '88 I think you said.
MS. GARSYS:
'89.
CPL. HOLLIS:
'89? Has there been any training as an employee of keeping certain

records that are subject to public records under Sunshine? Have you
received any training on how you're supposed to do that or when you're
supposed to do that?
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Case No: 2015-691857
MS. GARSYS:
I'm trying to think if there was actually....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Or is it something you've just... hey, this is how we've always done it and
kind of....
MS. GARSYS:
No. So like you know that you're emails are public record, so that has
never been an issue. I think the emerging issue has been the text
messaging and there is either an administrator's policy or some... it's
probably an administrator's directive, that clarifies which text messages
need to be saved.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
So if they're transitional in nature, meet me at or are you going to

somewhere, those have typically not been... those are not. And I actually
verified it with Chip before this whole thing started. Which of the text
messages need to be saved. If it is something that is, you know... the
report on the page has this missing piece of something. That's definitely a
piece that would be saved.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And how do you go about saving your text messages?
MS. GARSYS:
So, they're on my phone and then I don't delete the ones that are work
related. And so in this process, when there have been public records
requests, I tried a software system that nearly killed me which was
dumping them all into... then my mother's text messages got dumped into
it and this is not working. But so I actually do snapshots and send them in
when they're requested.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So you don't just.... Snapshots of anything and put them into a
folder in case they're asked about? It's only if...?
MS. GARSYS:
No. The latter. The latter.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So only if they're asked about do you do.... Okay. So you might
have to save quite a few of them. Might take up quite a bit of memory.
MS. GARSYS:
I don't delete them. I mean I really... I delete the ones that are the
transitional ones.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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Case No: 2015-691857
MS. GARSYS:
And so the ones that are not transitional are still in my phone.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Very good. So just kind of moving along on kind of the timeline when the
PLG.... I know it's kind of changed names. TED Group. Policy Leadership
Group was created there in 2013 to begin this process. Again, did you
have any role in that selection of who was involved in the Policy? I know
Mike when I asked him that he's like it was my kind of dealings. Did you
have any assistance with that?
MS. GARSYS:
In who would be on the Policy Leadership?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. Just how that whole group evolved.
MS. GARSYS:
I don't recall if we had discussions around the table about how to go about
best doing this. I don't know. I'm trying to recall.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Mike seemed to take... when I asked him that, he said no, it was my
thinking in kind of putting that together.
MS. GARSYS:
He's the one.... Yeah. I don't.... I mean he may have like bounced an idea
off of us, really other than that I don't have a recollection. I mean we
weren't like I was never in the 7 county commissioners plus the mayors
plus the HART. That was not part of my conversation with him.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And then in dealing with Beth Leytham as she became involved
when Parsons was selected, were you aware if she was under contract
with Parsons prior to the Go Hillsborough project?
MS. GARSYS:
I was not like clearly whether she was or not.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did she make it apparent if she was working for Parsons?
MS. GARSYS:
I can't.... I don't know that I know how to answer that. I mean I don't know
that it was one way or another. I don't know that I.... I don't know how to
respond...help me with that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, just in knowing I guess, knowing Beth Leytham and her work product
how she goes about her business, it's no secret that she has relationships
with certain commissioners.
MS. GARSYS:
Right.
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
The mayor. She's been in the county since 2001 at least doing the kind of
business that she's doing. She has multiple contacts. She reaches out. So
it's no secret that's kind of how she works.
MS. GARSYS:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Just in the dealings up to the Go Hillsborough selection of Parsons, she

was involved in some of the process just from what we can see.
Especially text messages she's sending back and forth. She's making it
known kind of her opinion on certain things. She's not coming....
MS. GARSYS:
Yeah. If you know Beth, she'll let you know her opinion on anything.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So if... yeah, if you could kind of fill me in on what is your perception I

guess of Beth Leytham based on your work experience and dealings with
her.
MS. GARSYS:
So let me disclose too that Beth Leytham and I work out in the same
facility.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Gym wise?
MS. GARSYS:
Studio.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
Our barre studio.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
We work out in the same barre studio. So I would see her periodically on
Saturdays at the barre studio.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
So the question now is did I know she was actually subcontracting with
Parsons? I don't think I ever... it never triggered any thoughts.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MS. GARSYS:
Let me think through because I think.... I don't think I had any antenna that
went off, you know, because periodically I'd bump into her. She'd ask me a
question about something over time, so I don't know that I ever.... I don't
know that I ever thought is Beth Leytham under contract or is she not?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And we're talking before the Go Hillsborough Parsons being brought
on?
MS. GARSYS:
Oh, before Go Hillsborough?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well.... I know it's kind of changed names and the Go Hillsborough brand
was kind of done kind through Beth and Parsons when they came on
board. That's when that name happened.
MS. GARSYS:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So before they were selected, the process with the PLG, the TED Group,
and trying to get this initiative going through, Beth's involvement with
that....
MS. GARSYS:
I don't know that Beth.... Okay. So I don't have any recollection of having
conversations with Beth about the transportation initiative.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
Until 2014 in the summer when there's now debate, when I think what's
really happening is TED is starting to then evolve into Go Hillsborough. So
nothing.... That time period in between, there hasn't been.... Like when the
PLG . I'm trying to understand this.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MS. GARSYS:
When the PLG was engaged in the transportation conversation, I have no

recollection of talking to Beth about that until there was a conversation by
the board to engage a consultant.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So can you recall when the first time you had talkings with her?
MS. GARSYS:
So it was August of 2014.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And do you remember the context of those conversations?
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MS. GARSYS:
So there were text messages. So now I have to disclose another thing.
August of August 13, I'm hospitalized.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
And I'm sort of out of commission between that and the end of September,
like the middle of September.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
So there's two or three text messages that I can't.... You don't have those
yet.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MS. GARSYS:
They've never been.... But the one.... Interruption. So the text message
request that you have for everything, you don't have those yet because we
just recently were made aware of it. However, I have through the course of
the several months submitted text messages, so you have those.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
So there are text messages in like right before I was hospitalized, so like
August 12, August 13th of 2014 that are good convo with Mike or
something like that and that was... that's it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
And you'll get those eventually if we can bring my phone in. You can look
at them now.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. Sure. Yeah. We'll do that. That'll be great.
MS. GARSYS:
So nothing.... So now if I understand, I don't have any significant

conversations with Beth about anything substantive work related from Fall
of 2010 until we started engaging in this whole Go Hillsborough, TED
initiative in August of 2014.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
Does that help? Is that what you're trying to get, because I'm....
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, I'm trying.... Because in Beth's interviews that's she's done on
camera, she's approached certain things as just a citizen or just a
constituent.
MS. GARSYS:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But if she was under contract for Parsons at that time, then that would
kind of show maybe her motives weren't purely as a citizen, but that there
was some underlying efforts trying to be made by her.
MS. GARSYS:
Right. Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So in your dealings with her....
MS. GARSYS:
I get where you're going now.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. Is that accurate, I guess?
MS. GARSYS:
No. I had.... No. I have.... And partly because my role in the selection was
somewhat removed for two reasons.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
One is Mike Williams, John Lyons, and Larry Scully were very capable of
doing it. We relied on Larry Scully to provide the third party sort of
objective approach. And number two is, I'm in the hospital.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
While that Direct Select process is going on. I had listened in on one or
two telephone calls, but there's not a.... I'm not engaged in who's, you
know, who are they? Who's the subcontractor? And if your question is is
Beth Leytham on the team because I want her on the team, that's
absolutely not the case.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MS. GARSYS:
If that's really the question we're going at.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, I mean that is going to be one of the questions that has to be raised.
MS. GARSYS:
Right. No, and that's why I'm just telling you. It just was not part of that.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
So we kind of jumped ahead into the team that was selected to select
eventually Parsons. In talking with Mike yesterday, he said that was your
role as far as overseeing that process. Of course I wasn't aware you were
in the hospital, so was there anybody filling in for you during that time?
MS. GARSYS:
Well, here's how it went. So the three of them were certainly the ones that
were engaged with Larry Scully. John would occasionally call me, but that
was the extent of it. I mean, I think the bulk of it really went to John. Those
guys were comfortable. I said it in a final, how did we get here? What did
we do? And that was really the role.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Now when you said the three of them along with Larry Scully.
MS. GARSYS:
The two of them with Larry.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So not three.
MS. GARSYS:
Three total.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No. And why use Larry Scully? Is that something you all used in the past,
you've used him in the past?
MS. GARSYS:
Yeah. Larry has provided.... On a number of projects, he's worked on the

ferry project with other people, which was kind of like how do these publicprivate partnerships work? He has an expertise and a knowledge of the
industry that we don't necessarily have on a regular basis.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. It's a public-private partnership you called it?
MS. GARSYS:
Yeah. That's really the process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Now you said you listened in on some meetings. Was there a time
when all three were together; Mike, Larry, and John Lyons that they were
actually meeting face to face or most of their meetings were conference
calls?
MS. GARSYS:
I think most of their meetings were conference calls.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because I know Larry is out of Washington.
MS. GARSYS:
Is in Washington.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
So in those discussions, was it to go ahead and look at these 10 that you

had already procured to see if anybody qualified there? Was that initially
what was the approach or were you all looking somewhere else?
MS. GARSYS:
So there's.... We weren't looking outside of the pool, if that's what you're

asking.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
The pool was the limiting factor. Who was in the pool that could do the job
that was requested by the board, by the PLG?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MS. GARSYS:
And that's where the elimination process started. It's like they wanted
someone who had national, national experience preferably. If they could
be local that's good. They needed to have transportation experience with
a referendum is really what was discussed in that PLG meeting. But they
were looking for someone who had the substantive competencies to pull
this thing off. So out of that 10.... Because there were discussions while I
was.... So out of that 10, a number of them were eliminated because they
just do traffic signals. They just did, you know, a limited engineering
scope. So out of the ones that came out, they really were the big national
companies; the HNTB, Parsons. Reynolds, Smith & Hills was looked at,
but they just didn't have the umph to do it, so that's how they got to the
three; HNTB, Parsons, and...
CPL. HOLLIS:
HDR.
MS. GARSYS:
HDR.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you know how they went about that process? Did they contact
everybody on the 10 and kind of say this is what we're looking for or just
based on...? I mean, how did they rule them out? Do you know?
MS. GARSYS:
So I think Larry played a key role in that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
But I think you can tell, I mean even, you know, even if you looked at it,
you could tell that there are certain engineering firms that have just a very
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focused, expertise in something and didn't have the experience or the
competencies.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you know...? So of the... you said Reynolds wasn't interested.

That wasn't their expertise. Do you know why HDR was eliminated?
MS. GARSYS:
I do if I consult my notes. HDR was the one that didn't provide the follow
on. They had been contacted and they submitted initially some information
and then the rest of the... the needed to provide more and it just never
materialized.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you know who was the main communicator with HDR on that?
MS. GARSYS:
From our side?
CPL. HOLLIS:
From your side. Yes. I know Matt Ryan is the one with HDR.
MS. GARSYS:
I do not.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I mean, that would've been obviously John?
MS. GARSYS:
Well, it would have been one of the three.
CPL. HOLLIS:
One of the three.
MS. GARSYS:
One of the three.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
One of the three.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So that was the reason they were eliminated?
MS. GARSYS:
Okay, so that is the reason.... Right. I'm not in those conversations.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MS. GARSYS:
It is described to be HDR doesn't... HDR didn't deliver the follow on

information that was requested.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So that was standard... I'm sorry, standard if a company called. Hey, send
us kind of a list of your qualifications why that you would be for this
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project, something that they can look at and read and see or is it strictly
just a conversation on the phone?
MS. GARSYS:
It depends what the scope is.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But for....
MS. GARSYS:
I mean when the scope is this significant.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MS. GARSYS:
You want something that's going to give you confidence that someone can
do the job.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So if you were to reach out to a company for this project, you'd want
something in writing explaining their qualifications and why.... So if that it
didn't happen, would that surprise you given the scope and the magnitude
of this project?
MS. GARSYS:
I think it would be a key piece. I think what I have to tell you though is I did
not see the information that was compiled, so I didn't see HNTB's
information, I didn't see Parsons' information, I didn't see HDR's
information.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. That's fair.
MS. GARSYS:
So when you ask me what? I just....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, what if there was no information from HNTB? If there was nothing
requested of them; it was strictly a conversation on the phone? Does
that...?
MS. GARSYS:
I think where I would in any other circumstance, other than... you know,
before this all just took on a different life of it's own, I think to get the
process started there was a reliance and I would have felt comfortable
and I would be comfortable with the kind of questioning that a John, Mike,
and Larry would do. Because I think their three perspectives have a
significant.... They know what they're doing. I mean, John's been around,
Mike's been around, Larry's got a really feel of the global and the national
market of who's doing what and he's connected to them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MS. GARSYS:
So your question is would I be surprised if there was nothing in writing?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, if you've got... you got your three; HDR, HNTB, and Parsons.
MS. GARSYS:
Yeah. Right. Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Those are who you're looking at. Two of the three have paperwork that
was submitted because it was requested of them.
MS. GARSYS:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But the third nothing was ever requested of them.
MS. GARSYS:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But yet those are the two to choose from in the meeting when Parsons is
ultimately chosen. So is that a fair assessment if these are the three
you're looking at, but only you have...?
MS. GARSYS:
So what I don't know is who submitted and who didn't. I can't answer that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, okay. Well, obviously the three, but because of this process, is that a
fair process. Shouldn't HNTB have been asked to provide something in
writing if that's what's asked of the other two?
MS. GARSYS:
Yeah. I guess here's the thing I don't know, is what do they have already?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. That's a fair question.
MS. GARSYS:
And I don't know who submitted and who didn't. So if you're telling me
HNTB was the one that didn't submit.... asked.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, they were not asked to submit according to HNTB in speaking with
them.
MS. GARSYS:
Okay. And so I don't know that and I don't know why they didn't or why
they did.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And then on HDR's standpoint, but with Matt Ryan and he
submitted everything that he had sent but the conversations they had
back and forth which began with John Lyons. John reached out to Matt
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and said hey, Larry Scully is going to be reaching out to you in a couple
days which happens on August 25th and then August 26th actually is when
Matt submits this page. There's no record, at least what's been provided to
us and maybe once we get into the emails that we just got from the county
of any conversations back and forth, maybe there was some follow-up
requested in there, but I'm not seeing that. So the reason that we've heard
and then you've confirmed that they didn't provide certain information.
Right now we're not seeing that in what we found. So I didn't know if there
was an underlying issue with HDR because of the water reservoir issues.
Certain commissioners had made it known that they didn't want HDR
involved. So did that have any impact on the decision?
MS. GARSYS:
That is not my understanding. I don't think the.... And here's the thing; so
I'm telling you what I'm surmising happened, okay? Not what I know to
have happened because I wasn't in there. I do not believe that our folks
ruled HDR out because of the water reservoir issue.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
But that's just because I believe that they would do that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So you were not part of the meeting. Because I understand Mike
Williams has spoken to.... You know there's an audit going on outside of...
well, part of this investigation but an independent audit being done.
MS. GARSYS:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Mike Williams was interviewed on that and basically said there was a
meeting held and that you were present for it with Mike Merrill when kind
of the two names were presented here? Here's who you got. They're both
equal. Flip a coin. You can go either way.
MS. GARSYS:
I am having a hard time remembering that meeting.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. He specifically mentioned you were there and this would've been
late August.
MS. GARSYS:
I was on the phone in one conversation.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Or early September.
MS. GARSYS:
It's possible.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
I mean I just didn't like.... It's possible.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Is it your understanding that Mike Merrill had the final say on who
was chosen? I mean, not until it's actually presented before the board and
they approve it, but he's the one that said okay, let's go with Parsons.
MS. GARSYS:
I just really am struggling because it was really a rough time for me.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
It was kind of in and out and....
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I'm not asking to get into that. That is a personal matter.
MS. GARSYS:
No, no. That's fine. But I'm just trying to provide to you kind of my state of
ability.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MS. GARSYS:
So the question is was it Mike's... was Mike... did Mike make the final
decision?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
I think.... So again, if Mike made the final decision it was based on a

recommendation that came from staff.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And the reason HNTB... obviously you know the two, but HNTB was
involved in the Greenlight Pinellas initiative, so it was because of their
involvement in that that's why they were kind of....
MS. GARSYS:
That was primarily and they were still... there's a question of how active
were they? And they were still... because Greenlight Pinellas hadn't yet
gone to the polls. Still had some activity. I will tell you also that the fact that
that was such fresh... even if they weren't actively involved in it, it was
fresh enough to kind of be of a caution.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Okay. Understandable. Now with Beth Leytham. And you mentioned
August 2014 kind of when she was involved in the process. Did it appear
she was working with Parsons at that time?
MS. GARSYS:
So you asked me that before and I think the answer is I wasn't aware of
whether she was or wasn't. I just didn't... it didn't like register for me.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But did it appear she was working for somebody just because of her
involvement and her voicing her opinion on certain issues?
MS. GARSYS:
So here's what could really have happened. It could have been that she
was providing, looking for input for somebody else and it wasn't related to
Parsons at all. It could have been, you know, somebody in either Bob
Buckhorn, it could have been, you know, Commissioner Hagan, it could
have been a whole host of people that she was just inquiring about.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But I guess the message is that we're going to get from you that
kind of go into that?.
MS. GARSYS:
I'm trying. I'm really trying. I just....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, officially, she's not under contract under the Go Hillsborough plan
until late November, but we have some texts from you.
MS. GARSYS:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Hopefully, you can shed some light. Dated October 1st, I'm assuming that's
2014? There's no year, but just based on the discussion it appears it's
2014. It's talking about Parsons. The procurement.
MS. GARSYS:
Right. It would have to be. Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you mind if I slide over to you? So anyway, because she's reaching out
to you and giving you this information, is this common for her to do that?
MS. GARSYS:
It starts to become common. It wasn't previously. It starts to become

common.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So this one....
MS. GARSYS:
And so let me just say at this point.... So this is October and you said she
was under contract in November.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
November 2014 officially.
MS. GARSYS:
Right. Yes. So I'm not... I guess I'm thinking she's engaged with Parsons,
but I'm not... nothing is going off that this is an.... You know, I'm thinking
she's involved with them but I'm not specifically saying is she under
contract or not?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. I mean that's not probably something common you would even
normally worry about is it in discussions with people if they're under
contract with a certain company?
MS. GARSYS:
No. But now I mean I did not learn that she was not under contract in
November until all of this started.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Gotcha.
MS. GARSYS:
So prior to that, I would say that in this point I'm thinking she is working
with Parsons, but I don't know that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
Because I don't really put the facts together until November.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Now this one doesn't have date. This one talking about meeting this next
Tuesday. So would this be the meeting in October?
MS. GARSYS:
PLG meeting.
CPL. HOLLIS:
The PLG meeting in October.
MS. GARSYS:
Yeah. We can get my phone and look at these.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. No problem.
MS. GARSYS:
It'll help.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But anyway, we know we've been working on the PowerPoint. That's why
I'm sure Beth's at that meeting.
MS. GARSYS:
Right.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Just showing that she is doing things for them.
MS. GARSYS:
For Parsons and she's not under contract.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
I don't know that at this point. I mean I guess...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. No. Yeah.
MS. GARSYS:
The assumption here is she is working with them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, would it surprise you if she was under contract, but under I guess a
general contract with Parsons for public outreach consulting work.
MS. GARSYS:
Wait...say that again.
CPL. HOLLIS:
She's not officially under contract with Go Hillsborough.
MS. GARSYS:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But she is under contract with Parsons separately.
MS. GARSYS:
Separately.
CPL. HOLLIS:
If that was the case. But you....
MS. GARSYS:
Possible. I don't know what the relationship with Parsons have been.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But you were not aware if she was under contract.
MS. GARSYS:
No. As I said I was not aware that she was not under contract until
November, until....
CPL. HOLLIS:
This whole investigation started. Okay. So this one, October one, FYI,
Sandy called me Calvert now chewing on her reference PB and no
procurement. I wrote her 5 simple bullet points to respond based on our
discussion. CCNA board direction Direct Select being reviewed. Short list
selection envision (indiscernible). Do you have any idea how she would
know this was the process coming October 1? I know the Direct Select
memo was in September, but the fact that Sharon Calvert, who I know has
been an outspoken person against this project.
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MS. GARSYS:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
How she would've known Parsons was chosen. Was that something that
was made public?
MS. GARSYS:
I cannot.... Let me just go through. The PLG approves Parsons in....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, they officially I guess do it on October. Because August the 12th is

the first meeting when they direct Mike to select. The Direct Select memo
is drafted.
MS. GARSYS:
Right. September 15th.
CPL. HOLLIS:
September. Mike Merrill submits a memo also in October just kind of going
through the whole process of how Parsons was selected, but then you
know, obviously their presentation and their approval to move forward in
October. So there was nothing as far as we can see. There was some
meeting that said hey, this is who we chose until the October one.
MS. GARSYS:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So if there was some memo then and Sharon's on top of things, you know,
collecting anything involved and that's how she found out. I mean,
obviously we will talk to her to find that out, but because this was sent to
you I didn't know if you could shed some....
MS. GARSYS:
So Sandy is Sandy Murman.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sandy Murman.
MS. GARSYS:
Sandy Murman. And Sharon Calvert calls Sandy Murman on a fairly

regular basis. I don't know if.... Well, Sandy must have known at that point
that we were doing the Direct Select.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And that would not be unusual given the date and that's about....
MS. GARSYS:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
About three weeks after the Direct Select memo was sent from Public
Works.
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MS. GARSYS:
So she knows it's a Direct Select and so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
No, just trying to... some context.
MS. GARSYS:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you know Sandy Murman and Beth's relationship?
MS. GARSYS:
Well, can I just tell you?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MS. GARSYS:
Sandy Murman works out at the barre studio too.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
So I am often in the same barre studio that they are in.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Is there ever any discussion about county business in those?
MS. GARSYS:
There's a lot of moaning and groaning, but I mean there's not like no
decisions are made. There is....
CPL. HOLLIS:
But is Sandy I guess giving Beth her opinion on things; Beth's giving her
opinion on things and the way things should progress on certain issues?
Would that be uncommon?
MS. GARSYS:
Yeah. I don't think that's uncommon. No, I don't think that's uncommon. I
think that's a fair assessment. It just..
CPL. HOLLIS:
And how long have you all been at this particular studio?
MS. GARSYS:
So I have been there for three years. When I went there, Sandy was
already there and I can't remember when Beth started. I think she
probably started before the Go Hillsborough thing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you remember any conversations about the transportation

initiative prior to Parsons being awarded the contract?
MS. GARSYS:
There probably were.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MS. GARSYS:
There probably were. Because it was all... I mean there's a lot of kind of
just back and forth. In between. It's not... just so you recognize the
environment, it's like you're before class, in between class.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MS. GARSYS:
Walking out of class.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you remember any discussions where Beth was trying to push

Parsons?
MS. GARSYS:
No. I do not. And... I do not.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
Is this helpful at all?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes, ma'am.
MS. GARSYS:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Absolutely. And I know we're..., you know, we're almost in 50 minutes

here.
MS. GARSYS:
I think they'll wait. If we need to finish they'll wait.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No. I appreciate your time. I know you're on a schedule.
MS. GARSYS:
No. This is critically important.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
You do realize that some of this though is like when you ask these
questions, it's like rolling the tape back and trying to figure out what
happened when.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. I can tell you're recalling. You're in that recalling this.
MS. GARSYS:
You know, it's like that.... So I read this. I went back and looked at the
timeline that Communications has on it's website, but then these kind of
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nuances just they sort of flow in and out and it's hard to be discreet about
when did something happen. You know like....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Would you consider Beth a friend?
MS. GARSYS:
I would consider her an acquaintance. I don't know that I would.... That's

what, you know.... There are a lot of people you work with over the years. I
don't know if their friends or acquaintances and we don't, you know,
socialize in the same circles. We don't....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Outside of this, it's basically at the barre classes when you would see her .
MS. GARSYS:
The barre classes. I have had a glass of wine with her on one occasion.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
And you want to know what we talked about? Men.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
Relationships with men.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright. And was that before the Parsons?
MS. GARSYS:
No. That was well after the Parsons.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. When was the last time you spoke with Beth?
MS. GARSYS:
I saw her at a class on Saturday. That was the first time I had seen her in
five or six weeks.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
I have not seen her during that whole kind of like since this investigation
started.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Are you aware of any ethical issues involved with this whole
process?
MS. GARSYS:
I am not because I thought about that and so I'm mostly concerned about
what happens on this end with my folks. I believe that John and Mike and
Larry really just conducted an assessment of who we could get. I think the
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other thing to remember is that there was a lot of pressure to do this, to
start moving on this. There was not an... I don't think to go back to the
PLG and say we're going to do a procurement and it's going to take us
four to six months to do it. Wouldn't work. So I also think that John and
Mike, from my perspective, under John's leadership particularly. He is an
incredibly... a person of incredible integrity and this whole investigation
has him really concerned because you know their engineering licenses
are... like have a cloud on them now and so I absolutely believe in those
two folks and I believe that Larry as a secondary level of objectivity. Larry
provided that sort of reality check.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
I asked Larry if he had ever worked with Parsons and he said no. And so,
you know, that gave me even more comfort that this wasn't directed to
Parsons.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Was there any outside influence that you're aware of to choose
Parsons?
MS. GARSYS:
I am not aware of any outside influence to choose Parsons.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Or even any internal influence amongst the commissioners, amongst

anyone that would be involved in the process?
MS. GARSYS:
I did not receive any coaching, any steering to Parsons, and I do not
believe that John, neither John nor Mike nor Larry did.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What about Mike Merrill?
MS. GARSYS:
I don't believe so either. I think he relied heavily. I think Mike relied on the
work that was done. He has a lot of confidence in John and in Mike and I
think with Larry at the table, he felt comfortable that that was about as
objective and clean as you could get.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I appreciate your insight. If these gentleman have any questions for
you, is that okay?
MS. GARSYS:
If these guys do or if you do later.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MS. GARSYS:
You need to feel comfortable coming back.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I appreciate that.
MS. GARSYS:
Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you.
DET. PORTALATIN:
I have nothing.
DET. CLARK:
I had a question about the procedures, snapshots and the phone to have
them available for public record. You take the snapshots and you keep
them on your phone as your routine. If your phone would go down in that
period of time or any time as all phones do, how would you satisfy the
Sunshine?
MS. GARSYS:
Yeah. That's an issue. I think it's an issue and so what I've started to do
now is snapshot them before I'm requested accept for this phone now. So
I think that is an issue. I think that's an issue for our whole organization,
quite frankly.
DET. CLARK:
Yeah. And just to put it into... to give someone an idea, how many
snapshots... not just pertaining to this investigation or anything else, but
on a general month or a week, how many snapshots would you have to
keep or you deem necessary to keep to satisfy Sunshine in a given period
of time?
MS. GARSYS:
So across all issues, I'm going to go with 30.
DET. CLARK:
About 30 a month or so?
MS. GARSYS:
About 30... it could be 30, could be less. You know, a lot of them again,
even with outside consultants and such, are I'm late, I'm 15 minutes late.
Can you get started? There is a lot of that that's in text messaging. There's
probably more of that in text messaging than there is substantive
information.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
So substantive information I say 30, but like I'm just kind of running
through my phone right now in my head. I don't know if that's the number
of all substantive. A lot of it though is just the transitional stuff. And I think
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we've all become much more aware that the text messaging is for
purposes of recording and saving an issue.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
But then also just for this kind of stuff. It just becomes, you know, it's like
out of context. It's difficult to reconstruct. Sometimes it's a message that
you get from somebody, but you're like you don't do anything with it and so
then, you know, what happens to that assumption of like, okay well you
read it. What did it mean? Like I read it, but I disregarded it or such or I
read it and then I called somebody. So from I think that really is a lesson
for a number of us about how we keep our text messages. I think Mike
does regular downloads on his all the time.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
There isn't a very user friendly way to do that, so I think that's part of it.
But yeah, it's a lesson and.... Nobody wants text messages now because
all we do is walk around with a phone. Don't send me a text. I don't want
to see it. (laughing in background)
DET. CLARK:
And that's fair and that satisfies my question. My other part was any
discussion about county business outside of the county. Let's say it's not a
text and it's just a communication and someone inquiring about how
everything's going and whatever and it may not be concrete to say we're
discussing county business right and everybody switches and puts their
hats on as far as who they are. But let's say someone is discussing or
venting or anything else about county business outside of... it could be
anywhere; fundraiser or whatever. How do you document that once it gets
there as a conversation. There was a person came to conversation and...?
MS. GARSYS:
Well, I guess.... So if it's a.... I mean that stuff happens all the time.
DET. CLARK:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
You're walking with somebody and somebody says where are we on the
zoning amendment for la-la-la-la-la-la.
DET. CLARK:
Right. And at that point, as far as as Sunshine is concerned, outside of a

public meeting there's a process of how that should be recorded so that it
could be reconstructed in Sunshine because at that point it is to be
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preserved for public scrutiny. Is there anything as far as training or
anything as far as recollection how to take that...?
MS. GARSYS:
I would be surprised if most folks believed that conversations outside of an

office environment....
DET. CLARK:
Outside of meeting. But they're talking about if someone is talking about

business outside, county business outside of.... Let's say you have two
commissioners get together.
MS. GARSYS:
Oh, commissioners.
DET. CLARK:
Or commissioners with anybody else.
MS. GARSYS:
Oh, commissioners. Are we talking.... Well, okay. Because there's a

couple of things. One is commissioners talking to one another.
DET. CLARK:
Right.
MS. GARSYS:
Okay. So I'm not aware of any situation where I have been involved where
there have been two commissioners and there's been a substantive
conversation that would come to them in front of the board. I'm not aware
of any.... I've never been in that kind of environment.
DET. CLARK:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
Where two commissioners were discussing something.
DET. CLARK:
Or a commissioner, just like we have a text and those are found to be

substantive, right? But the next question would be let's say a
commissioner who's talking about outside for Tampa. You spoke to
Murman at the barre studio and she griped or whatever or vented or
whatever about what was going on and expressed frustrations about that.
If that conversation was substantive, if it's not preserved then it may not
satisfy Sunshine. So my thing would be once a person talks about, a
commissioner talks about someone who's in the process of something that
may affect a decision, then that should be preserved.
MS. GARSYS:
So how do we deal with telephone conversations?
DET. CLARK:
And that's protected under.... And that is.... Any communication whether
it's by text, by Twitter, Facebook, or anything else as far as the Attorney
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General guidelines are or a conversation, if a message is sent between
two parties that message should be preserved as it was a hundred years
ago. So prior, before....
MS. GARSYS:
So even if it's....
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
We walk outside of this building.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
And I say to you that question was really challenging because of la-la-lala-la. So this is... like this is new to me.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
That any conversation will be....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, the phone conversations would not be; is not subject to Sunshine.
MS. GARSYS:
Well, so if phone conversations are not subject...
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
How is that a casual conversation at Publix where somebody might ask

me...?
DET. CLARK:
Well, no. If we're talking about county business outside of... outside of
them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
A one on one. Simply a one on one, but it'd have to be a two or more,
right?
DET. CLARK:
Right.
MS. GARSYS:
With a commissioner.
CPL. HOLLIS:
With... yeah.
MS. GARSYS:
With a commissioner. The commissioners are subject to Sunshine right?

When two of them are meeting.
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DET. CLARK:
Right. And any group if they put together for someone to put... if you have
a private-public partnerships and so forth and if someone....
MS. GARSYS:
So if there's a task force.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
Like Hagan's task force; PLG task force. Those are all subject to
Sunshine.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
Yes. Got that.
DET. CLARK:
Yes. And then any of that business that pertains to that then could be and
is requested by the public.
MS. GARSYS:
Right. So now let me really understand this because it's a significant

issue.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
So I get that if there are two commissioners or if they convened a task

force or committee to give them recommendations on which they're going
to vote, then that committee becomes a Sunshine committee. They're
subject to the Sunshine because they're ultimately making a
recommendation to the board.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
Right?
DET. CLARK:
Yes. That's what I'm thinking.
MS. GARSYS:
Okay.
DET. CLARK:
And under that, when it comes to a decision or anything else and

someone comes.... What I'm trying to get at is....
MS. GARSYS:
Is it the lobbying piece?
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DET. CLARK:
What I'm trying to get at.... Yes. I'm trying to the and contextually, putting
things back together. When a person who does not present themselves as
under contract for a particular business that may be involved in a serious
process, a procurement process, and the person comes out later and is
questioned about their intent and they say I'm just a constituent or I'm just
a citizen. But then later that person who has been under contract to make
relationships with government officials, the business that they're under
contract with benefits, they benefit financially, and now we look back and
those conversations are encounters or texts that come out of nowhere as
strategic. Would that be a proper assessment?
MS. GARSYS:
So specifically related to this, your question is would Beth Leytham text

conversations prior to her being under contract with Parsons in November,
would those...?
DET. CLARK:
Prior to being in contract with Parsons as far as Go Hillsborough, but in

that same time period making contacts prior to that, but being under
contract with Parsons, but not being in contract directly with the county.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. I mean, she's under contract with Go Hillsborough late November,

but she's under contract with Parsons prior to for other services, but that
deal with public relations reaching out to build relationships between
Parsons' reps and Tampa Bay region elected officials, government....
MS. GARSYS:
So she's.... Okay. So now I think I'm understanding what you're saying.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
So if she were under contract with Parsons, independent of her contract,

the Parsons contract with us.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
Parsons hires her.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
To be their... find work. Find work for us.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
So I don't know that she was under contract with Parsons to do that or not.
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DET. CLARK:
Right. And many didn't, but my thing is well now let's say she was under
contract and those text or any type of conversation was made, now
looking backwards, if you would've known that she was under contract
with Parsons would any of your dealings with her been different as far as
how should I approach her or limit discussions or communications or...?
MS. GARSYS:
Probably I would be more cautious, but let me just say that people
representing firms call us all the time, you know, rather it's.... I have a new
pipe that you need to try because it's going to help you slip line pipes and
you won't have to do this. I mean, so I get calls from people who say we're
going to, you know, you're getting ready to bid a debris contract. You really
need to look at how the city of Tampa did it. I mean that happens all the
time. I mean, people are at me like me oh.... You know, sometimes you
meet with them because they're potential vendors. You just sometimes
they're sent to you by commissioners.
DET. CLARK:
But to...This is my last question. But to put that in context....
MS. GARSYS:
No. This actually quite fascinating.
DET. CLARK:
But during.... Right. What I'm saying is... what we're saying is, if you would
have known she was under contract during the selection process....
MS. GARSYS:
Yeah. I would have been way more cautious. I would have been way more
cautious in any conversation with her if I knew that she was trying to get
Parsons to get the job if that's the question.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, if I could follow-up on that question.
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir.
MS. GARSYS:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did her dealings, even though you didn't know, it appears she was kind of
positioning herself for Parsons, that she had some kind of ulterior motive?
MS. GARSYS:
I guess, you know.... Some of this is Beth, you know, and so I didn't.... The
flags did not go off for me if that's the question. The flags did not go off. I
didn't... didn't even occur to me that she might have been under contract
with Parsons to drum up business. It just didn't. That just didn't even occur
to me and to this day, I don't even know if that's the case or not.
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DET. CLARK:
And that's where I'm going. And my next one, because there's been some
criticisms on the cost of the process. I believe they spoke about it later.
During the qualification and selection process, did anybody discuss what
the ultimate cost of getting them to this point, because there was a
question of why did it cost the amount it did at the end and that there was
during a commissioners meeting, they stated that, you know, it almost
doubled.
MS. GARSYS:
So for those of us who do this like a lot, we sometimes have a feel for
what something's going to be.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
And, you know, I think we all knew it was going to be a lot because of
what the board's expectations were and then those expectations often
tend to grow when you get into. I happened to know that there was a
conversation where a $900,000 number was put on it. I think Beth said it
to somebody, but I was not part of that conversation but I can tell you that
we all knew back then that it probably would be close to that amount.
DET. CLARK:
So it wasn't a... that $900,000 wouldn't have been a surprise?
MS. GARSYS:
It's a huge initiative. It's huge.
DET. CLARK:
And who may have Beth said that to?
MS. GARSYS:
My rec..my understanding was that she may have said it to Mike Merrill,
but I don't know that that's the case. I mean, somebody said Beth put the
number out there.
DET. CLARK:
Okay. I don't have anything else.
CPL. HOLLIS:
When you had mentioned well, that's just Beth. That's just her personality
that she's always trying to gain an angle or...?
MS. GARSYS:
Well, you see... and I guess I don't see her as the angle. It's the hey, what
do you know about this? So I think it's just, you know, she is connected.
She is just connected.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because she's qualified to do the job that she was hired to do by

Parsons?
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MS. GARSYS:
I feel very much she's qualified. I watched her on that affordable housing
thing turn academic papers into meaningful information. I've watched her
on the other transportation task force. She has a way of understanding
what we need to say and how you need to say it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you.
MS. GARSYS:
That's it?
DET. CLARK:
That's it. Thank you.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I think that's it. Do you have any questions for us?
MS. GARSYS:
No. But I really do understand this issue about conversations outside of

the office environment, how they get documented. Because if you were
saying to me that any conversation that I might have with a lawyer that I
bump into at Publix who says literally do you know if my item is on the
agenda, land use agenda for Tuesday? I'm not... I don't think anybody is
documenting those conversations. If it's a commissioner issue, that's a
little different. But people ask me stuff offline all the time. How do you
document conversations when you go to Sun City Center and they want to
know about the culverts and culvert replacement or their resurfacing
schedule. We're invited there. They want to know when they're
resurfacing. When their mowing is going to happen. We come down and
talk to them.
DET. CLARK:
Would that type of a meeting require minutes?
MS. GARSYS:
We wouldn't keep those minutes. We're invited to speak. You know after
20 some odd years you bump into people all over the place and you know,
what are you doing on mobility fees? When are mobility fees going to the
board? I don't know. We're sorting that piece through. I mean that
happens a lot. You know, and when you're in position and it's just so broad
ranged and you after a while know so many people in the business, they'll
stop you anywhere. They stop you and say you know, when are the
renewals for the storm water consultants? Have you thought about raising
the limit? You know, if that's... if we're going there, then we need to know
about this because I don't think anybody's....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is Chip Fletcher or his legal staff somebody that you all refer to?
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MS. GARSYS:
Oh, all the time. Chip was like, Chip was in this the whole time. I mean it
was....
CPL. HOLLIS:
You're talking about the process?
MS. GARSYS:
The whole process and that's why.... Now can I speak?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Absolutely.
MS. GARSYS:
Okay. So what is really somewhat kind of the irony of all of this is how
much debate there was? You know, working with Chip.... Chip was
involved. Chip's staff was involved all the way through. When we started
getting to work order limits and such, how do we do the disclosure? Extra
ordinary disclosure to the board just to make sure that they were aware of
the direction we were going and so if you watch Scott Stromer's
presentation that he did in front of the board.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
And then you listen to Commissioner Miller who said why are we going
after Mike Merrill when he did what we asked him to do. And so we were
aware that this was going to get... just because of the nature of moving
forward on a referendum, that it was going to get scrutiny and it... you
know, it went over and above I think in making sure that there was
disclosure and that there was... that the process was done appropriately.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Obviously, Monday morning quarterbacking...anything you all would have

done differently if you could redo it all over again?
MS. GARSYS:
I'm not sure I'd even embark on the initiative at this point. This is my third
referendum and I just....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Well, I appreciate your time and if we could maybe look at those
texts just to get the date.
MS. GARSYS:
Let me get it. It's in the car, so let me just grab it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No problem. I'll stop the recording now. The time is 9:49 a.m.
End of interview.
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Attachment Description: LUCIA GARSYS #2 INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:
For: 4602

2015-691857
Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222593, interview Lucia Garsys, Chief of
Development and Infrastructure
CPL. HOLLIS:
Today is Monday, December 21, 2015. The time is 1:48 p.m. This is
Corporal Charles Hollis, ABN 5603. This interview being conducted today
is in reference to the Go Hillsborough investigation. We are on the 26th
floor of the county building. Also present....
DET. PORTALATIN:
DET. CLARK:
CPL. HOLLIS:
And, ma'am, your first and last name.
MS. GARSYS:
Lucia Garsys.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And what's your title here?
MS. GARSYS:
The title is Chief for Development and Infrastructure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And ma'am, you're aware our conversation is being recorded?
MS. GARSYS:
I am aware the conversation is being recorded.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I have permission?
MS. GARSYS:
You have my permission.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. And this the second time we've spoken. We spoke last on
October 22nd of this year. It's been a couple of months. But the reason, I
just want to kind of follow up with you. We've done a number of interviews
since we spoke with you and just kind of had a few questions. And just to
confirm, so when Mike Merrill was at the PLG meeting on August 12,
2014, he was directed to select a firm from the outside basically to help
with this transportation initiative. And what he told us is that he put his
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Case No: 2015-691857
team together and you were part of that team, kind of overseeing the team
John Lyons, Mike Williams, and Larry Scully. Do you remember that?
MS. GARSYS:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I forgot to do that last time. I forgot to swear you in. I'm sorry. Can
you raise your right hand? Do you swear or affirm the information you'll
provide today will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
MS. GARSYS:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. I don't know why I forget that part sometimes, but I did. Okay.
So back. So that particular meeting on August 12th, did you attend that
meeting?
MS. GARSYS:
The PLG meeting?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
On the 12th? I did.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And so when Mike Merrill was directed, he kind of put you in charge
of overseeing that process.
MS. GARSYS:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
I think there's something though I alluded to this the last time, but I think I
went back and looked at records. I think what becomes important in this is
that the folks who were responsible for it, John Lyons, Mike Williams,
definitely are in my... within my jurisdiction. On the 13th, the following day
after the PLG meeting I was hospitalized.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
And I think... and I'm hospitalized not just hospitalized because in the
emergency room and so I'm there until the 20th or the 19th.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MS. GARSYS:
And then shortly thereafter I leave from my mother's in Michigan where
she is having difficultly, so I drive. So there is a period of time of 2 to 3
days when I'm here I think.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Yes. And then....
MS. GARSYS:
And the reason that's important...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
Is because I'm not here.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MS. GARSYS:
I'm not guiding that process in the initial phases of it and so my folks are
working on it, but they really... and there's a text message too I think from
John... to John Lyons. It said like let Scully take the lead so that it would
be done objectively.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But these are men, Mike Williams, John Lyons, that you trust.
MS. GARSYS:
I do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And that's not something that you have to be over top of them making
sure that they're doing their job or do you have to micromanage?
MS. GARSYS:
I don't micromanage them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Or did you in this process?
MS. GARSYS:
I did not micromanage them in this process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I understand you were in the hospital and that was one thing that we
wanted to confirm. I knew you were in the hospital for some time and not
to discuss why you were in the hospital, so that you were not physically at
meetings or discussions that they had, but did they fill you in on any kind
of discussion?
MS. GARSYS:
There were... there was an occasion I think when... probably in that time
period between the hospital and taking off for Michigan where they had
told me what the process was and what they were doing.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you remember what they told you they were doing?
MS. GARSYS:
I'm going to.... We're working with Larry. We're making phone calls. We're
reaching out to firms on the list. I don't recall if I at that point knew which
firms were on the list or not.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you know what list they were... how they obtained the list?
MS. GARSYS:
Mm-hmm. That I do know. That was the list of preciously approved

engineers. We call it our CCNA Gen Civ list, like General Civil Engineer
list. So I knew they were coming from there.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And that was from the 53 down to the 10 originally for the CCNA
process, the procurement process that had been....
MS. GARSYS:
Yeah. I think there, I think there are 10 on the list.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. Okay. Now your relationship where you all had worked at the same
spa studio and Commissioner Murman also worked there as well. And you
had mentioned in our last conversation that there would be some business
talk, but knowing Beth Leytham, did you know at the time that she was
working for or under contract with Parsons Brinckerhoff?
MS. GARSYS:
I did not know that until was revealed in my interview on October 21st, so I
did not have any knowledge of that until it came out of the previous
meeting.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And in those conversations where you all would just talk about
whatever. If it did come up with business, was Parsons Brinckerhoff ever
mentioned in those conversations?
MS. GARSYS:
Parsons was not mentioned until after the... shortly before the September
18th meeting, so the whole time I am operating under the understanding
that Beth is... Beth worked on this InVision project that was done at the
city and the focus of all of the work kind of leading up to the PLG was
what kind of outreach process would it be. What would... what's the
engagement. How are we going to do this? And the InVision model keeps
coming up. It's a good way to do it. It was very successful. The mayor
liked it. And my understanding, and I'm working with Beth because she
knows the mayor. We need the mayor to buy into the process and InVision
is this model that worked. So that is the way I'm proceeding with her in all
of those early conversations.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And she's speaking to you as someone who knew what happened
with InVision because she actually worked on the InVision project.
MS. GARSYS:
She actually worked on the InVision project.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So if she's giving her opinion on something, but... and somewhat an

educated opinion because she's worked in that process.
MS. GARSYS:
And I believe she was very actively engaged in that process and that's
why the mayor trusted her and that's why her input was valued.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So it wasn't necessarily where she was advocating for a particular

firm. She was advocating for a particular process or maybe direction that
the PLG should go.
MS. GARSYS:
It was all about process and even those early text messages were about
is the comment card in? This is, you know, this process isn't working, so it
is about how the engagement ought to work.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. In looking at her phone records, there were just a couple times
where we see some conversation between you and Ms. Leytham,
particularly... and I'll show you the record here. This number, 416 number?
MS. GARSYS:
Uh-huh.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is that your phone number?
MS. GARSYS:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So what's interesting though about this October, or I'm sorry, August
the 8th, 2014, we have some emails where she actually has a
conversation with Mike Merrill lasts for 23 minutes and what we
understand is she's kind of giving him her ideas of how it should proceed.
You know, going out and not talking to a specific firm, but you know, using
somebody with transportation experience, getting out there...
MS. GARSYS:
Right
CPL. HOLLIS:
The community engagement and InVision has been mentioned as well.

You all had a 41 minute conversation before that.
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MS. GARSYS:
So I think there's actually a text message that probably corroborates with
this.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Mm-hmm.
MS. GARSYS:
And she says, and I think it's that date. We can check it. It said good
convo with Mike and so that really is still at that point all about the process
because we're getting ready to go into the August 12th meeting.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
And still no conversation about representation of another company or her

being part of Parsons.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But as knowing Beth, is she somebody that likes to share her
opinion on how certain things should go?
MS. GARSYS:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Now if she, if she is under contract and part of her contract is to put
a particular firm in position to succeed through relationships, just through
being in the right spot, you know, she doesn't come out and say that, but
she's, you know, she's doing her job; however, she's also sharing her
opinion because she's concerned about the process. Is that something
that would make sense that she's doing?
MS. GARSYS:
Well, I think the question was asked by Trent last time if I knew she was
under contract with Parsons would I have behaved differently and my
response is that I would've been more cautious in any conversation.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
So your question specifically is...?
CPL. HOLLIS:
I guess now knowing all of that and looking at, you know, yes, would you
have been more cautious?
MS. GARSYS:
Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But with that said, she never came out and said I'm representing so and
so. I'm... but she also didn't say I'm Beth Leytham. Here's my opinion.
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She's just spitting out information based on past experience, say with
InVision and that sort of thing?
MS. GARSYS:
So if I understand the question, she doesn't at any point say I'm Beth
Leytham representing Parsons. She.... Say the second part again
because I think there were three things you said in the other. First one
was I'm Beth Leytham. I'm representing Parsons.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Or I'm just Beth Leytham. Here's my opinion based on my past experience

like with InVision. This is how we did InVision. I think it'd be a great way for
the county to go.
MS. GARSYS:
That's... we lead the way the conversations went and I think what's really
important too is that it was again because we were trying to do this across
the community with the mayor involved. She had the link back to the
mayor, so it was important. We did InVision. This is how we did it. It
worked for the mayor.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. GARSYS:
Does that help?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
Okay. Alright.
CPL. HOLLIS:
With the selection committee, selection process, was that anything you
ever shared with Beth of who was making any kind of selection?
MS. GARSYS:
No. Because I really wasn't around during that period and was... my
involvement was very limited.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And you specifically, from like the 13th through the 19th, but then there was
a time where you were traveling to Michigan, so that whole time frame
you're kind of out of it.
MS. GARSYS:
I am out of it. I don't get a.... Yeah. No. There was really no opportunity for
me to share. She... there's a phone call from her to me. There's a phone
call on the 20th and that phone call is...what happened to you in the
hospital? So it really is about my ordeal in the hospital.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. If you had an opportunity to share who was on the committee for
selecting, would you have shared that information?
MS. GARSYS:
Oh, who was on the committee? Now I don't believe I shared any of that
with her because that.... So that committee doesn't get put together until
after the 12th.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Correct.
MS. GARSYS:
I don't believe I did.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I'm just going to show you this email. This is one we recovered from
Parsons Brinckerhoff email and it's between Beth Leytham and Bob
Clifford. Basically, when they submitted what they submitted to Larry
Scully on behalf of Parsons, they submitted a... just I don't know, a 2 page
hey, these are our qualifications.
MS. GARSYS:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Why we would be a good candidate. Bob Clifford kind of forwards that on

to Beth. Hey, this is what we submitted and she asks who is the selection
committee? And then Bob mentions Lyons, Williams, sounded like Merrill,
Scully, and then Beth responds, Lucia too? Which when we talked to Beth
she said that was supposed to be a question. So that's the only reason
we're asking, I mean was there anything that you shared with her?
MS. GARSYS:
I don't believe I shared any of the... even like the who's on it because I
don't.... There's really no.... There's conversation after, like before the
September 18th meeting, but I really don't know when I would have been
able to do that. So my answer is no.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Alright.
MS. GARSYS:
But she's clearly setting a path with Parsons. I think that she is connected.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, there's no doubt about it. She was under contract with Parsons before
the Go Hillsborough for about 5 years.
MS. GARSYS:
5 years?
CPL. HOLLIS:
5 years. Continuous from 2010.
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DET. CLARK:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. Where she was an advocate, a consultant; putting them in position to

succeed in the community.
MS. GARSYS:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So I guess the question has to be how you separate that. Is she you
approaching you or others when she's giving her ideas on behalf of
Parsons or because she's been engaged in the process and this is... it'll
work best if you go this way and not this way. That's, you know, that's the
question. So I don't have any other questions.
MS. GARSYS:
Is that a question with an answer?
CPL. HOLLIS:
That was like rhetorical.
MS. GARSYS:
A rhetorical. No. I don't know how you do that. It's just.... But I think, you
know, just in closing I did not know until we met in October that she was
under contract. My conversations with her early on were really because
she was kind of a surrogate for the mayor and that whole InVision thing
that happened. I can't speculate onto whether that was a positioning of the
project to get to a different end because I was not aware of that end until
much later.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Thank you. Do you all have any questions?
DET. CLARK:
My only thing is....
MS. GARSYS:
You're always like the Columbo in the whole thing. Like everything's over
and....
DET. CLARK:
The Columbo. I used to watch that show by the way. Have you seen the
contract at all?
MS. GARSYS:
No.
DET. CLARK:
Okay. Could we provide...?
MS. GARSYS:
The contract for her service?
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
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MS. GARSYS:
The 5 year contract?
DET. CLARK:
Yeah. They were repetitive contracts. They're pretty similar. They are very
few changes between them, but I think in all fairness if you could see it
and if anything jumps out to you as far as behavior. It's a consultant
contract actually.
MS. GARSYS:
It's pretty broad... and relies on relationship building too.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
I'm not going beyond the first.... I mean, I don't think this is relevant to it. I
think it's all in here.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes, ma'am.
MS. GARSYS:
So your questions were specifically...?
DET. CLARK:
Those... when we did ask you questions in meeting number one it was to
try to establish what did you... did anybody know about... did she say I'm
under contract with Parsons? I'm... or whatever other company she's
under contract with and as far as behavior when you're dealing with
someone who's dealing with procurement or a selection committees, you
want to know if you were aware of that contract or anyone assigned to a
similar contract would that change your behavior? That was my question
last time and that was the reason why I asked that question was because I
wanted to know if it would.... We've shown it to just about everybody the
contract who's on the commission and everything else just to see if that
would have changed behavior and we just want to know what your natural
response to that would be?
MS. GARSYS:
I will say what I said before.
DET. CLARK: Yes.

MS. GARSYS:
I would have been much more cautious. I would have been much more
careful and if I knew that that was the desired outcome and the goal.
DET. CLARK:
And my last question will be with Monday morning quarterbacking with all
this knowledge now, do you still... do you believe that the selection
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Case No: 2015-691857
process was still not interfered with, that the actual selection between
Scully and your two subordinates still made a proper choice?
MS. GARSYS:
I absolutely believe that and I did not influence. You haven't asked me
directly that question, but I have not influenced that process and
deliberately so because I wanted them to go through it. We had process
questions, but we didn't have.... It wasn't I think until we all either met in
here or there was a... I was part of a phone conversation when that...
when the final decision was made.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
I did not influence that process and I believe they did an incredibly....
They're... my two guys are just... I have the utmost respect for their
integrity and their professionalism and their engineers and so they have to
abide by an engineering code of conduct as well, so....
DET. CLARK:
I understand. And you already answered the question about the Parsons
email that... the email between Beth and who's she's reporting to, I believe
it was Bob Clifford on that email asking whether or not you were part of
the process.
MS. GARSYS:
Right. And even Mike Merrill wasn't part of the process, so I think the
Bob's answer was incorrect because Mike didn't participate in that either. It
was relinquished down to the three of them.
DET. CLARK:
Okay. And how would you define that that there are some that find this as
strategic positioning or just a part of consulting to know everybody in the
process to get that close to the process? What do you... how would you
categorize that relationship, the contract and that response back to
Parsons mentioning your name about to see whether or not you were
involved in the process?
MS. GARSYS:
Let me...Try that again.
DET. CLARK:
Well, she mentions the other folk and Bob Clifford mentioned those folk
and they were able to drill down and many people weren't able to... no one
knew who was part of the selection process outside of pretty, pretty much
outside of here, outside of your office. How, you know, how would she
know who was part of the selection process?
MS. GARSYS:
If I understood that email, it was actually Bob Clifford.
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Case No: 2015-691857
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
Who's reporting to her who's on the selection process.
DET. CLARK:
Mm-hmm. Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
So that comes I'm thinking from a conversation he's had.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But that was information you didn't provide. It didn't come from you.
DET. CLARK:
You didn't provide it?
MS. GARSYS:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
It didn't come from you?
MS. GARSYS:
No. And I don't know what the timing is, but at some point the calls are
starting to be made. They call people, right? So I don't know what the date
was.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. That's how it was relayed when we spoke to Bob about it that he
had had conversations with I think someone at HNTB and based on their
conversations of who reached out to them....
MS. GARSYS:
Right. Like on.... Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. So and then the question from Beth well, is Lucia involved too? Well,
there was no response on that.
MS. GARSYS:
Right.
DET. CLARK:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So would that have been a phone call to you, hey, you know. Don't know.
Those questions were asked, but....
DET. CLARK:
So yeah, she didn't reach out... after this email, she didn't reach out to you
and try to get clarity because we don't see any emails after that to where
anything was clarified.
MS. GARSYS:
What was the date on that?
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
August 22nd, 2014.
MS. GARSYS:
No.
DET. CLARK:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I mean it looks like... and Parsons was selected basically through email,
the email we have. Hey, county just called and they want to use us. That's
August 26th.
MS. GARSYS:
And I don't know the date of selection is August 26th?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well....
MS. GARSYS:
I don't even....
DET. CLARK:
There is...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Not officially. I guess when the work order and everything's done, but
through emails and phone calls, yes. I'll find that real quick.
MS. GARSYS:
Because the letter actually gets written September the 5th; the letter that it
is the direct select letter.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. GARSYS:
That I know.
DET. CLARK:
And then I don't believe that letter is voted on until the 21st.
MS. GARSYS:
Right. But at that point it's....
DET. CLARK:
Well, it's not official.
MS. GARSYS:
Of public information.
DET. CLARK:
But yeah. But it's not official until it's...
MS. GARSYS:
Yeah.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
I know it's here somewhere. Ah. Yep. August 26th, 4:49 p.m. Just got off
the phone with the county. They want to use us. Kickoff meeting tomorrow.
MS. GARSYS:
The 26th. Kickoff meeting tomorrow. That's August 26th?
CPL. HOLLIS:
August 26th.
MS. GARSYS:
I didn't think the kickoff was till September, but....
CPL. HOLLIS:
I think that meeting when a lot of people showed up, but I think this was
just a quick.... George and Bob were there or it may have been, you know,
postponed to another date. Who knows? But anyway. Well, we appreciate
your time.
MS. GARSYS:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You're still like you're still in some thought.
MS. GARSYS:
No. I'm looking at this. It just is.... I wonder how many else are out there
like that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
A lot of consultants out there.
MS. GARSYS:
I don't know who had it...Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I'm going to stop the recording. It's 2:13 p.m.
End of interview.
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Attachment Description: MARK SHARPE INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:
For: 4602

2015-691857
Corporal Charles Hollis, ABN 5603, and Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222593,
interview Mark Sharpe, Jr., County Commissioner
CPL. HOLLIS:
Today is November 19, 2015. The time is 12:26 p.m. This is Corporal
interview being conducted today is reference to the Go Hillsborough
investigation by Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office. That case number is
15-691857. This interview is being conducted at the SOC, 2008 East 8th
Avenue in Tampa. Also present for the interview, sir, if you would state
your full name.
MR. SHARPE:
Mark Sharpe.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. SHARPE:
S-h-a-r-p-e.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. SHARPE:
Yes, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I have your permission, sir?
MR. SHARPE:
Yes, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. And also present.
DET. PORTALATIN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Mr. Sharpe, would you raise your right hand, sir? Do you swear or affirm
the information you'll provide today will be truth, the whole, and nothing
but the truth?
MR. SHARPE:
Absolutely, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. Well, I appreciate you coming down.
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Case No: 2015-691857
Re: Interview of Mark Sharpe
MR. SHARPE:
Thank you.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And obviously this is about Go Hillsborough, but kind of a little

background. You served as commissioner for quite some time. Can you
talk about that?
MR. SHARPE:
I was elected in 2004. Reelected in 2006. I served out Pat Frank's last half
of her term when she ran for Clerk of the Court, so elected... reelected in
2006. Rather uneventful and then reelected again in 2010 and completed
my term in 2014.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Now I know it's split up into districts, but aren't there also countywide?
MR. SHARPE:
Yes. I was one of the countywide commissioners. I was commissioner at

the time when I got elected. Commissioner Norman was countywide.
Commissioner Blair had been elected countywide, and I was one of the
countywides.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And then I understand Commissioner Higginbotham took your spot.
MR. SHARPE:
Commissioner Higginbotham ran for my seat in 2014.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SHARPE:
And I could've, technically I could've perhaps run for a single member

district. The way it's worked, you've got term limits, but if you work it right
you can serve in a different capacity for another 8 years, but I had made
the decision long ago that I was going to....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And since that time what have you been doing?
MR. SHARPE:
I took a job as the director of what's called Tampa Innovation Alliance. It's
a partnership of USF, Busch Gardens, Moffitt Cancer, Florida Hospital,
and after I took the job in November, we added the University Mall. They
became members and then my job was to let the Westshore Alliance grow
business membership and so we've added in the one year time frame 85
businesses.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SHARPE:
And then I also had to set up the... there was no office. There was no
budget. There was really no organization. I was the first employee and
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then I took Eric Larson, who was my aide, and he served with me... I got
elected in '04. I think Eric came over around 2006, maybe just before and
so he went with me from my job as a commissioner to my new job.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Very good. So when you were commissioner back in 2010, there
was a referendum that was attempted to...
MR. SHARPE:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I understand pay for transportation and that failed and you documented
some of that. During the August 12, 2014 PLG meeting you kind of talk
about some of that a little bit.
MR. SHARPE:
Oh yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But can you kind of speak to what your participation was in that
referendum in 2010 and then why it failed?
MR. SHARPE:
Sure. I had become.... When I ran for Congress, I ran Congress back in
the 90's. When I ran for the commission, the issue of transit and rail in
particular came up and at the time in 2004, my position was I wasn't sure
if we had the density to really build a rail network here in Tampa. When I
got elected in '04 and really through '06, I was pretty much in that camp,
but I was willing to learn and I wasn't yet on the HART board, but I think I
took HART in 2006. But I became real involved in the tech community
trying to attract businesses and industry to Tampa Bay. As we began to
explore business and industry, what we realized was a lot of the
communities were modeling ourselves after had really good transit
systems and I'm not talking about New York or San Francisco, I'm talking
places like Charlotte, which was in the paper today, or Denver or Salt Lake
City. So somewhere between 2006 and '10, I started visiting areas where
they had transit. Myself and Dave Armijo, who at the time was the director
of HART, he we took a trip to Charlotte. So went to Salt Lake City and
Dallas exploring. And then Mayor Iorio at the time was very committed to
transit, so we started having conversations. So in that time from 2006 to
'10, there were a series of meetings that were taking place sometimes in
Mayor Iorio's office. She would call in, you know, experts from all over.
Sometimes they were hosted by HART, maybe the MPO, but we had
these people coming to us and talking about their systems and we were
talking about well, gee, what, you know, what if we were to build out a
system. So as I was doing research, I went from being opposed to
somewhat supporting the system. I saw it, I rode it. So this looks pretty
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good. There are things you have to do; build out a bus system and other
things, but this is something we should do. And so I became involved. We
really... what we found though there was no process at all for building the
plan and getting on the ballot. Nope. We were kind of like groping with
what do you do and who's responsible. The city was an advocate for
moving this agenda item forward. The county really wasn't. At the time, the
administrator was Pat Bean. Jim Norman was the chairman. And so the
board was fairly conservative, not very supportive, but we were just having
conversations. And then there was an agreement by the board I would say
about 2 years out, so 2008, to form a committee and I think I asked at a
board meeting and maybe Hagan asked at the same time. I'm not sure.
We should form a committee to study transportation and transit and that's
what took us towards the 2010 referendum. And so we met for 2 years,
but kind of..like I did I was also the chairman of the Indigent Health Care
Task Force. Same thing. We would have these ad hoc meetings. We
brought in people from the city, the county. At the time, commissioners
didn't serve on the committee. They would appoint someone. So the
difference between this cycle and the first cycle was we were asked as
board members to appoint someone to serve on the committee, but
because I was asking for this, I chaired that committee, so I attended all
the meetings. But the other board members they sent like a
representative, so they had representatives representing each of the
offices attending the meetings. We had experts coming in. Very quickly in
the conversation it became real clear we can't just put money into roads.
Even the buses, you know, with buses you have to have bus drivers and
that's a very expensive process over time. We're going to have to have a
rail of some sort. And so the committee began to realize quickly into its
conversations, we're going to have to have two phases to this. A road
phase and then a transit phase, a long term or short term phone, and that
rail would have to be a piece. And so the committee met and....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Who... I'm sorry. Who was of that committee? Was it just county
commissioners?
MR. SHARPE:
No. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SHARPE:
It was like I think, in those meetings, Dr. Paul Zen was a member. He
was.... I'm not sure who selected him. I'm pretty sure he was he
designated by a board member, but he was also one of the higher ups of
the Center for Urban Transportation and Research at USF, so he was an
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expert. He attended, but Dave Armijo would attend. I don't know if he sat
on the committee, but he was there. The committee had I would say 7
commissioners and I think that each of them picked one and then I think
we even went to two, so it was like 14, 15 people on the committee. It was
pretty big.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SHARPE:
City reps. But from that, and it was a tangled mess. I mean, you know, and
it was just because we, you know, A, a lot of the folks weren't in support,
and you know, people were coming to the meetings. You know, we had
the same folks who are opposed now that were showing up in 2010
coming and voicing their opinion. The mayor was very supportive, which
meant that our administrator really wasn't supportive. But through all that
tangle and then HART was involved, no one really knew who was in
charge, who was supposed to put together the plan. We didn't know.
HART had a component because they were responsible for the bus.
Nobody was responsible for rail. The county and the MPO was
responsible for the roads and from all that emerged a plan.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And ultimately that was put to vote?
MR. SHARPE:
Yeah. We took it... we had to take it back to the Board of County

Commission where the board members said, many of them, what's this?
We've never seen this before. Why are you doing all these? Why do want
this? Why do you want that? People began to kind of, you know, none of
them fainting, but it was like what... you know, we've not heard of this and
our message back was wait a minute. You appointed people on the board.
They were supposed to be keeping you appraised, but there was a lot of
concern that somehow through that process of which I lived. I mean I was
there. I was going.... Not only was I going to those meetings, but I was
talking to Rotaries, Civic Associations. It was really the mayor and I
because this was coming into 2010. This was, you know, the height of the
Tea Party Express and we could see it coming in 2009. A tax increase was
going to be very unpopular and I'd even been told if I put it on the ballot,
you're going to have a primary opponent. Just expect it. And I debated
David Caton and in fact went to a meeting on my 50th birthday where, you
know, I'm there debating him and they're saying we're going to run
someone against this guy. You know, look what he's trying to raise our
taxes, so it was really an ugly time. But we got... the board had a vote to
put it on the ballot. So this... and so it was lots of anger, like we don't know
what the plan is.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. SHARPE:
And our kickback was we've been talking for two years about this, so you
should know what the plan is and then we had it at a big auditorium, the
meeting, and what happened was a lot of supporters showed up.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh.
MR. SHARPE:
So it shocked everybody. You know, the opponent felt they were going to
be more opponents, but actually the supporters came and the message
was look, you're voting to put it on the ballot. You're not voting for a tax
increase. And so I think it was a 6-1 vote. It might have been a 5-2, but I'm
pretty sure it was 6-1. Al Higginbotham was the only one who voted
against. I think even Brian voted to put it on the ballot I believe and from
there, it went to the voters.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And ultimately, they rejected it. The voters did.
MR. SHARPE:
42 percent of the vote.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So then kind of jump ahead to when the TED Group, the PLG was formed.
Were you part of that process?
MR. SHARPE:
Yes. Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Because in talking with Mike Merrill, you know he kind of made it
seem that he was the one that kind of came up with who to put, I guess,
part of that team. Not saying he was the sole person.
MR. SHARPE:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But that he....
MR. SHARPE:
Mike had lived through... he wasn't our administrator before, but he saw
the mess. And you know, I mean I keep telling people, this is like when I
ran the first time for office, you don't know what you're doing. You're
learning, so you're kind of, you know, and you see the mistakes you make
and so Mike, you know, watching the 2010 effort, but also, I mean we got
42 percent of the vote, you know, in spite of all the vitriol and the fact that
really the strategy of the opponents was beat me. I mean, I'm.... that was
the.... They were very clear about it. Here's how we're going to defeat the
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referendum. We're going to beat it's chief proponent. So they got a
primary opponent and the guy filed like, you know, and I say the guy. Josh
Burgin. And we're friends. We've talked since. But they got someone to
run against me. They bankrolled him and they were pretty clear; if we beat
the proponent, we can beat the referendum. So I had a primary which
came..., the vote came before the November so the idea was if they beat
me, I lose. It damages the referendum. The referendum loses in 2010. I
won. And, you know, but then the reverse happened. I won and the
referendum lost. You know, I think they would've been happier if it would
been the other way around.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So in the formation of TED, what was your involvement in that?
MR. SHARPE:
Well, okay. It loses and for a year, 2011, and I'm just going on memory.
2011, '12, you know, there was really not a lot of interest in bringing it
back, but there was also an awareness that we're losing time and that
transportation problems are only getting worse. And now we've got Vinik
downtown and Vinik's talking about the downtown development and
there's conversation about baseball. We've got to save baseball. Where
will baseball go? And I was, you know, still staying on message. We've got
to do something with $3 billion dollars, $6 billion dollars behind on filled
road. You can't widen your way out of this problem. We've seen with
certain roads when you widen them too far, it kills the business along the
area. The residents don't like it. You can't cross the streets because it's
dangerous, so you have to have alternatives. In fact, I spent 2 years
visiting communities because I was asked to speak in Atlanta; I spoke in
St. Louis, I spoke in Indianapolis, and maybe another city or two about our
experience. Like I was the guy that they asked to come and talk about
how basically to lose a referendum. You know, what not to do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. Right.
MR. SHARPE:
So I went through that experience and then I went back to Mike, you
know, and said look, I think we need to be looking at our options again.
And their decision... because I felt like we had studied this in '10. We kind
of had an idea, but the decision was we should have a Policy Leadership
Group, but this time all the commissioners should be on that committee
and we should all review it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. And when you said their decision, besides Mike are you referring to
somebody else or...?
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MR. SHARPE:
No. I think it was like staff.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SHARPE:
I think there was a feeling that, you know, I mean I was wanting to move
this. I've studied this for years and so I'm like, you know, we.... I serve on
the NBO. I serve on HART. We know what are failed roads are. HART's
got a plan for how we can expand the bus system. So we have a lot of
information, but there was a sense... and I would say it came from staff
and Mike, that... and I think the board as we had conversations on the
board floor, that look the last time... the narrative was 2010 was a failed
exercise because a small group of people put the plan together. You know,
I disagree. I think a lot of folks were involved, but we... it wasn't an open
process in the sense that we had not gone out to the community and have
all these community outreach meetings. We didn't have a lot of the things
that they were looking for, so you know, there was a sense that we
needed to go this way and my attitude was I was already part of the 2010.
It hadn't worked. I'd been reelected. I know I was going to be terming out,
so I'm like okay, I don't want to be blamed for two failed elections. You... I'll
support what you think we should do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So then having all the commissioners, the 3 mayors, and the HART chair
as part of it.
MR. SHARPE:
Yes. Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What was...? Would you say that the purpose of the TED or the PLG was
to reattempt a referendum or find out ways of how to support
transportation needs in the future?
MR. SHARPE:
Yeah. I think it was more of the latter than the former. I mean, I don't think
anyone started the conversation because board members are really
reticent about issues like raising taxes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. SHARPE:
I think some of us in our mind... you know, I can't speak for the others, but
you know when you know the backlog of failed roads and you know how
much you need and you know that even if you raise the gas tax 5 cents,
what it will generate, what your revenue sources are, and you always
hope maybe the economy will boom. Maybe we'll have revenue and we
won't need it. But even to qualify for the federal matching dollars, the most
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successful regions are capable of drawing down federal money for
projects because they can go to the feds and say we've got a guaranteed
revenue stream over 10 years, 20 years, 30 years that a sales tax would
bring in. Even if you don't spend that money, in some regions like
Charlotte went and got the revenue without even a plan. The voters just
approved it and then they banked the money, but the idea was now you've
got that money you can go back to the federal government and say look,
we've got this guaranteed stream, which is a requirement. They used to
require that you have like may 20 percent, 40 percent. Now it's like 50
percent, 60 percent you've got to have of that money set aside before you
can even begin to have a conversation about it getting federal
contributions. And so, you know, but to answer your question, I think in
fairness it was let's have this conversation, but let's bring the... now we
have new board members.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. SHARPE:
And let's let everybody just start over and so they hired Herb Marlowe and
that was a person who I interacted with most of the time on the
conversations about the Policy Leadership Group and we're just going to
do this whole thing all over again.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Was his role just a facilitator of the meetings or what was his main role
would you say?
MR. SHARPE:
Predominantly facilitator, you know, I think and again Herb's.... I couldn't

tell you exactly how he was selected. I know that... I think others.... I don't
know if I'd ever dealt with him before, but my sense was when we had the
board conversations, Herb had worked with the county before or had
some involvement. They had confidence in him and they felt he could
manage the meetings and I was mixed. But I got along with him. I got
along with them all, but I mean no sooner was he picked than they were
attacking him. I mean it was the same group. You know, how do you pick?
What process did you use? You know, he's a socialist because he had
written some books about transit and somehow there was some
references in there that, I don't know, they picked out and gleaned and
thought that he meant he was somehow, I don't know.... They went after
him. So I knew whoever they picked was going to be attacked and Herb
was attacked.
CPL. HOLLIS:
When you mean they, you mean the opponents of any kind...?
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MR. SHARPE:
Yes. A collection of.... I mean and they were.... And all the people, but I
mean, you know, they were watching us carefully. They were watching the
process carefully and they immediately... I mean, you know, we formed the
committee. Why are you forming the committee? You bring on Barlow.
Who's this guy? How did you pick him? You know, that type of thing. And
so he had a tough job, which is to organize the meetings, facilitate, and
whatever else the county asked him to do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Thank you. As far as I know you were a chair of the BOCC. Can you
kind of explain the chair? Because I just see that there's a new chair now,
Commissioner Miller is now the new chair of the BOCC.
MR. SHARPE:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is that something that comes up for a vote every year? I mean, how are
you appointed chair?
MR. SHARPE:
Yeah. It's interesting. When I got elected in 2004, I didn't want to be a

chair, because you know, the one thing I realized when I got in office was
you have to learn the process. Sunshine's an issue. You got to understand
how Sunshine works. How the bureaucracy is set up. And the training
session is like a day or two. I mean, you kind of get elected and basically,
here's your car pass and here's where you park and then you're voting. I
mean, and so it's kind of like whoa. And so the chairman manages the
meetings. It interfaces between the administrator and the board, but does
not in anyway communicate between.... Because you got Sunshine
issues.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. Yeah.
MR. SHARPE:
But basically, you know, some will say it's a ceremonial position. I would
say it's ceremonial plus and by plus I mean, you know, you're trying to,
you know, run the meeting smoothly. You got to know what's going on. You
have to understand the issues well. You should know what staff's thinking
and you know, otherwise, and that's how it works. And then what happens
is the board members vote on who they want as their chair.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. SHARPE:
And so I became chaplain, I think I was chaplain when I got elected.

Ronda Storms, if I remember correctly, said okay, I want to nominate Jim
Norman as chair. I think maybe Ken Hagan was vice chair and I became
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chaplain. And I was supposed to move up. The way it normally works. And
there's tradition.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. SHARPE:
And if you saw the hullabaloo with the school board, they picked April
Griffin over the vice chair creating a stir. There's no rules that tell you
how... but there's kind of this thing. Well, what happened was I'm in office,
I supported a tax increase for schools. It was a... we're going to increase
the impact fees. I angered some folks and I got bumped, so when they
made the nominations, I wasn't even nominated for chaplain so I was out
of cycle. And then somehow I got back in cycle and I became vice chair.
And so I was vice chair and I was vice chair like 4 times, so every year
they pick and I was vice chair, but I never made chair until my last term.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Now for the PLG, was there a point person that was kind of
assigned?
MR. SHARPE:
Not really.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SHARPE:
You know, that was always kind of interesting; sometimes they would turn
to me because I was the chairman and in fact, I would walk in going okay,
who's running this meeting? You know, am I supposed to welcome
everybody or is Herb supposed to welcome everybody? And I was like I
don't have to welcome everybody. You know, again, you know, especially
it's my last year. I'm cycling out. I'm really thinking, you know, no drama.
Whatever you want me to do. So sometimes I would welcome, sometimes
I wouldn't welcome. There was really no set pattern. I didn't run the
meetings. Herb ran the meetings. My job was really just basically to sit
there, which I did.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. When the PLG was formed and you know, trying to get this
referendum back on the ballot, was 2016 the goal or would there have
been a sooner date beforehand?
MR. SHARPE:
Let's see. I think we started meeting in 20...
CPL. HOLLIS:
2013.
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MR. SHARPE:
'13. And you know, we knew there was no way. I think there might have
been some conversation about a 2014. I was impatient. I'm like we need
to move. The same way I feel today. We've got to move. But I also
recognized quickly, and Herb kind of communicated to me as well, look,
you might want to move, but you've got board members and the board
members have to be comfortable and confident in the plan and we don't
have a plan. And then there was also this awareness that '14 was an offyear cycle and so we probably have a better chance of if it got on the
ballot, it's succeeding if it went on 2016, which is the general election.
More people vote. So you know in my mind I was hoping up until probably
mid 2014 we'd at least have a plan by the time I left. I mean that was my
understanding. I mean it was never, you know, anything more than just
that. It was like we should be able... we've done this for so long, how long
does it take for us to have a plan. But I realized and Eric would attend
almost all the meetings, so I would... I mean, I had an open door policy.
My office was welcome to come to the meetings. I want another... I
wanted... just like you have two, I wanted to have another person sitting in
there so that when whoever was briefing me left, I could go back and forth
and go did we hear the same thing? Because usually we'd see or hear
something different. And so, we realized they're not going to have this
thing before 2016. So I kind of... I kind of sensed, you know, as we moved
into 2014, it wasn't going to be ready.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, and even before the 20... in the 2010, you seemed to go to all the
meetings, yet the others had sent other people to the meeting.
MR. SHARPE:
Oh yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So there wasn't.... This bringing everybody in and getting them on

board....
MR. SHARPE:
I was, you know, I was a little concerned because I championed the 2010
referendum as a commissioner. I kind of knew. You kind of cross, you
know, the cross the Rubicon so to speak. It's like okay, there's no going
back. You're supporting it. You can say I don't support a tax increase
because I was an advocate for it. I was never going to say yeah, I support
it, but I don't.... I want to put it on the ballot, but I don't support the plan. I
supported the plan even though the plan in 2010 was imperfect, there was
a lot of things we weren't certain about. I would have meetings with Mike
Merrill as we got closer to the end of 2010, so Mike was administrator at
that time and Dave Armijo saying you know, I don't know if we got the right
people in place to manage this. If we're successful, we're going to have a
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real issue with how you manage the plan and the money. I mean, that's
going to be an issue. We never got to it. It lost. In this case, you know, I
really kind of, as I'm talking with them, just again realized as we headed
towards the end I was going to be terming out. I'm not sure when they're
going to have the plan and I just let them run the process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So in August... we'll jump to August 2014, the PLG where you all directed
Mike Merrill to choose a private firm...
MR. SHARPE:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
With transportation experience. Do you remember that meeting or...?
MR. SHARPE:
Yes. Pretty much.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I guess... what do you remember about that? Was there a sense of
urgency where we need to...? I knew you said you were impatient and you
were ready to kind of move forward, but....
MR. SHARPE:
No. I think it was kind of a more now.... I mean, there was a recognition
that for this to be successful, Mike was pretty emphatic that we have got to
make sure the process is open. That's why... I mean, you know what's
interesting is that really the... if there was a message coming out of any of
these meetings up till August and after was, we got to make sure
everybody's engaged and we can't rush it. And I was aware of that and
you know, my attitude was it's not about me. If I'm the only one that
supports this plan and everybody else is lukewarm, it's going to fail. We've
got to make sure that we got, you know, the right plan in place, that it's
been well communicated. And so coming into August, I think it was just
simply now it's time to make decision about bringing in an engineering firm
that was going to put together a plan. I still wasn't completely sure if we
weren't going to have a plan. Maybe, I was hoping, by the time I left. I had
no idea this was going to be like they're not even going to start shaping
the plan until now. I mean they were going out and doing all this outreach
far more extensive than I... even though I'd heard Mike say we're going to
have an extensive outreach, it was more extensive than I expected. So
there was no rush like hurry up, Mike, go pick someone. I think it was like
now it's time that you're going to bring in someone who's going to help
shape the plan and it would be an engineering firm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did you know how that process was going to take place?
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MR. SHARPE:
No. I mean, I knew that they were going to make a selection and I knew
that they had a process in place where they had predetermined firms and
that they could pick and that's pretty much all I knew. And quite frankly,
again, my office's policy was pretty clear. I mean, I practice what my board
members... or my office aides practice. We never engaged. Because Mike
was pretty clear about, you know, the charter and how it works. We didn't
get involved in who they picked. We set policy. We told them implement
policy. It was their job to determine the team. And so, you know, what I
hear was that's what they were going to do and I even... because I mean I
know what the conversation is, when I first learned they were going with
Parsons, I don't know if it was at the board meeting or if it was at a briefing
that Mike presented or if it was even when he was speaking, because so
many things were happening.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. SHARPE:
There was lots of conversation, but somewhere in there was we've made
a decision. We're going to hire an engineering firm and it's Parsons.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. During the 2014 meeting, really the thing that I just noticed what you
spoke about. Just about the 2010 effort and what you learned from that.
There were a lot of mistakes, but the things that you learned and that
everybody was pretty positive in going forward with somebody with
transportation experience using a private firm.
MR. SHARPE:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But I was interesting that Al Higginbotham, Commissioner Higginbotham

said, you know, not a PR firm though. He was pretty specific on that in his
closing remarks.
MR. SHARPE:
Yes. There had been a lot.... I think, and again, I want to be careful
because I'm, you know, trying to say what was in my head and what might
have been in the others' heads that they're thinking, but my sense was
from the board members and especially knowing Mike, because Mike is a
very methodical man who I think thinks like an engineer. He constructs
things. Where Pam Iorio was more like maybe a little more emotional, a
little more like wow, everyone should see this. Let's go out and sell it. He
was like you construct and craft a plan. And so I think the sense was, you
know, from staff. This was not from me. But the staff sense was we better
bring in people who are professionals. I heard this, you know, I think from
Mike. Professionals who can take all this information and construct a really
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solid plan and that really meant he would not be... he wouldn't be hiring
PR because I've dealt with a lot of PR folks. They know nothing about
transportation. So I was kind of like well, you know what? That makes
sense. You want to hire someone who's done this before, who knows how
roads connect, and who may be a help can show us how we can tie in the
bus system and perhaps even rail, although in my mind I was already
thinking rail was what damaged us in 2010. You know, I was really not
expecting to see any rail on this referendum. If there was any, it would've
been very modest. Maybe taking the, you know, extending the street car
to the airport, but it really wasn't a thought. It was really more just let's just
start. Let's go with road improvements and maybe some buses.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So ultimately we know that Parsons was chosen from a group of

already approved vendors.
MR. SHARPE:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you know who was in the running...
MR. SHARPE:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Before they were chosen?
MR. SHARPE:
No idea. I tell you, the first time I knew was when I read about it in the
paper. I think it was the Salinero story.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. As a commissioner, would it be appropriate if you knew who was the

running for a particular project to go to the person that's helping make the
selection and tell them who you think you should pick?
MR. SHARPE:
I don't think... you know, personally, I didn't think that was appropriate. I
don't think it was crossing the line because I'm... you could say hey, you
know, I dealt with all these firms and this firm messed up the reservoir and
this firm had this problem and this firm doesn't even know any of these
projects, so gee, this firm would be the best firm. You certainly can offer
than advice.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SHARPE:
But we were very careful. I mean, I'm just saying it as it is and how we
handled it. I was always cautious, because, you know, 10 years of being in
office. Projects all the time. You'd have, you know, either the firm or maybe
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a lobbyist or someone coming and saying gee, we got a great firm and we
should get... you know, usually like bond counsel. The issue when we got
to pick bond counsel. Lots of calls coming in and I'm like... and I would
always say, I don't care if you're best friend, a family member... and your
family members weren't supposed to call... or whomever. I don't call and
say to staff I even think you should because I felt that was in some way
maybe unintentionally putting a little bit of pressure and so I didn't. There
might.... You know, in my 10 years of office, I'm thinking did I ever say to
staff, you know, you picked this and it's a terrible selection. But if I
would've said it, it would've been in a staff briefing when I had someone
else sitting there from my office and I'd be on record or at a board meeting
where I would say publicly that's a terrible pick. But in this case I wasn't
asked. It was one of those deals when it was like, you know, we made the
decision. It's Parsons.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I bring that up because I'm sure you've read some of the text
messages that have been released out there.
MR. SHARPE:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And Commissioner Murman, when this selection process was starting,

texted Mike Merrill to not pick HDR.
MR. SHARPE:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I understand in speaking with some of the other commissioners and

Mr. Merrill that she was not a fan of HDR.
MR. SHARPE:
No, she....
CPL. HOLLIS:
She had been on Tampa Bay Water and she made that very well known.
MR. SHARPE:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
On many occasions.
MR. SHARPE:
I thought... I'll just... I mean, I'm not in any way imputing. I love
Commissioner Murman. I knew, not related to this issue because again...
now maybe they'll be a text somewhere that says I knew HDR was
(indiscernible). Oh, HDR is a good second choice. I was not aware of HDR
being in the running. You can only imagine who the engineering firm were,
but it really was... again, it was one of those things where I got a lot of
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things to be worrying about. That's not one of them. You pick the
engineering firm. But I do know, because I served on Tampa Bay Water,
how she felt, but also how Commissioner Latvala, who was the
commissioner over in Pinellas County and a lot of other people felt about
HDR. And I don't think it was completely, entirely fair. That was a complex
case, but at the end of the day in the back of my mind I'm thinking boy.
Looking back, because I wasn't aware prior, but looking back when I read
about it, I'm thinking have we picked HDR? The opponents would've said
oh, really? The firm that had the cracks who we paid millions of dollars,
you know, for the court case and had to go back and fix it. They're the
ones doing the engineering? I'm not surprised, but again, none of that
information was shared with me. They didn't tell me who was in the
running. I didn't ask who was in the running and I never opined against a
firm because I didn't want be sued. Quite frankly, I didn't want to be sitting
here doing this. I didn't want like have to go oh, yeah. I was the one who
stopped you from getting that contract.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. SHARPE:
Publicly or privately and I wouldn't have even said that publicly. But that's
her right. We had Commissioner Ronda Storms used to really get riled up
about certain firms that she felt had wronged the county taxpayer.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SHARPE:
And so I think that that's where Murman was, you know, that HDR had
wronged the taxpayer and so, she was standing up for the tax....
CPL. HOLLIS:
And that's obviously one of the things that we're trying to do is the context
of the text messages because it's easy to get a bunch of texts and then
make assumptions.
MR. SHARPE:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And make accusations based on what you're reading without knowing the
actual context of them, so that's one of questions.
MR. SHARPE:
I appreciate that because text messages capture...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
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MR. SHARPE:
Such a small piece and you know, from voice conversation on the phone,
a meeting in an office, a casual as you're passing by...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. SHARPE:
And you get that little text. But it's part of the record.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. And you kind of already answered this, but did you influence the
selection of Parsons?
MR. SHARPE:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you know of any commissioners that influenced the selection of

Parsons?
MR. SHARPE:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Or any members of the PLG?
MR. SHARPE:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SHARPE:
I mean, you know, I thought back about this a lot. It was one of those
deals where it was just like it is. In fact, I had... I mean I've had... I only
had with staff.... I mean, once I knew, obviously lots of conversations with
Chip Fletcher. Chip, are we following the process? You know, Parsons
was selected. Is that the right process? You know, Chip, in the affirmative.
Because usually Chip would attend the meetings with Mike, especially as
we got into these issues. Mike would come in, Chip would come in. You
know, perhaps sometimes other staff member. I dealt with, you know, Herb
Marlowe on transportation. I got with Eric Johnson on transportation. I got
with Lucia Garsys on transportation, but my only conversations I had with
staff was with Chip and I had a conversation one time with Eric Johnson
on a separate issue and midway through, I was kind of like, Eric, how did
this.... You know, because now I'm reading all the emails, I mean, from
Sharon Calvert, you know all fired up, and so I just asked him. And I don't
remember when. It was before, probably want to say somewhere in the
August to, you know, when we made the selection. It would've been
August, September, October window. Maybe closer to when I left. You
know, the decision to hire Parsons, right decision and he was emphatic.
And I don't want to... I'm not throwing him under the bus, but I mean, you
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know, because it wasn't his decision. He said, oh, Commissioner, they've
done all the AA. It was done properly. We went through all the channels.
And Eric's one of those guys who, you know, will sometimes with me if he
thinks something like, you know, isn't right would say you know,
Commissioner, I have a problem here too. And not like he would in any
way go around his own, you know, the administrator, but he'd be honest.
He'd say. And he was like oh, this is....
CPL. HOLLIS:
And regardless of whatever happens with this investigation, I don't think

anybody can look at Parsons and say they are not qualified. When you
look at their resume and you look at all their past experience, obviously
they're qualified for this project.
MR. SHARPE:
Of all the things I was worrying about, because I was looking for
landmines and booby traps everywhere literally. I knew we were going to
like.... And even though I'm thinking okay, first off, again, I'm out of here
and I don't want to be in any way.... You know, I work for the taxpayer. I'm
going to.... I told my office, I'm going to run as hard as I can, attend every
meeting. I'm going to be engaged, but I'm leaving in 2014, so a couple
rules. One, I don't want to have to go back and explain what we did or
didn't do. Two, my office does not promote anything the last year. All I
wanted to do, I was nervous that I did not screw up the meetings. Les
Miller sits over there with a little rule book, you know, and all the rules and
regs order and you know, there's always someone waiting to trip you. You
didn't, you know, you didn't do this right, you didn't do that right, so I was
really... I mean through most of that year, focusing on one thing; no trouble
for the board. Let's get through this meeting right. Let's make sure we do
everything proper. You know, little things. You know, like making sure the
pledge is done at the right time and that we swear people in when we're
doing certain things ourselves. That was my focus and making sure my
staff understood all that was happening. You know, that.... Not promoting
an agenda. So I told our office like we're not pushing anything. You know,
we might have a proclamation or two, but really, you know, all the things is
a commissioner... like commissioner items, we might have had a few, but
we really tried to say.... Because I don't want anybody going well, you
know, he left office and he pushed this event.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. SHARPE:
Oh, early. Probably 2000 and.... I want to say I don't know if it was before I
got elected or after I got elected, but right around that time sometime in
2004.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
2004? And how were you introduced to her?
MR. SHARPE:
I think it was... I think Louis Betz like at the Village Inn said here's
someone you got to know. She's involved in politics and I was at that time
meeting everybody. I mean, I was literally trying to meet with everybody
who is involved in local government because I'd run for Congress, so I
was focusing on national and then there was an 8-year gap, so when I ran
in 2004.... And I really was unsure I wanted to run. I'd been asked to run
by the party and a few other people. Mark Proctor was my consultant who
I trust entirely. And because Mark was a great guy. Never asked me for,
you know... never lobbied me ever. So Mark was who I used in '04 and
again in '06 and even in '10. He was involved in all my campaigns. But I
would meet people and I would meet her and I met her that... I met her
probably through was Betz I think and it was like a breakfast or something
like that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And I guess her line of work would be public relations or consulting?
MR. SHARPE:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Were you aware of any groups that she represented that were
involved with you or did y'all have any relationships there?
MR. SHARPE:
No. I mean, I was aware.... You know, Beth was interesting. Anytime I ever
engaged with Beth where she was lobbying, she was very good I felt at
saying Mark. She would always like talk to me like I was 5. Mark, real
slow, you know I represent X, Y, Z. Whatever it was and so I'm going to
ask you, you know, what do you think about this? Or we got this item. But
in the 10 years I was in office, the engagement was sporadic. We had I
would say, even though I did appoint her to the.... it was a board. It was
the... early on... it was at the recommendation I think even of Louis. She
wanted to be on the Charter Review Board, so I appointed to Charter
Review Board, so I appointed her to the Charter Review Board. And in
part, because I was supporting at that time the county mayor and then she
was opposed and I knew she was a Democrat and I was a Republican. I
thought well, that will be a good balance and everyone will not think
anything. So I had never had a conversation with her about it. I was like
you do what you think is right. You don't need to talk to me. But we had
modest conversations, but we really didn't get along. She.... And I don't
think it was personal, but she just, you know, I was... you know, she would
tell me often when we talked I had too many items, too many issues. I was
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like, you know, I had this list of 100 things I wanted to do that I had written
out one Christmas about how we're going to make Tampa Bay like the
tech hub and it was everything from transit to, you know, just you know,
Rideshare, things like that and she just thought I was scattered. So she
would repeatedly tell me that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did she seem like a person who's not afraid to tell you...
MR. SHARPE:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What she's thinking or how it is?
MR. SHARPE:
She would.... I mean our conversations when we had them, especially in

the last year, were usually unpleasant. She'd be barking at me. And I told
her, I mean, you know, if she ever listens to this. I mean, she would yell at
me, you know. What are you doing? She was not afraid to say if
something's stupid, something's dumb, and often times like when you
asked me that first question, I was always aware.... I mean, she was a
strange person. There were not a lot of people like her, but there were. It
was like okay, she's in the room. Is she representing the mayor? Is she
with a partnership? She was involved with InVision. She helped Vinik out
with the downtown development project. She seemed to be everywhere.
She helped Hoe Brown out when he was in trouble. So, like I said, she
was pretty good if she was calling me about something to say hey, this is
what I.... But then there were times occasionally when I would talk to her,
you know, or I'd see her and it'd be like she was just reading about the
paper and she just wanted to give her opinion. I think that's the dumbest
thing I've ever heard or you know, whatever it might be. So it was kind of
like, you know, I was just kind of wary. I often times looked at her like
alright, I just want to avoid getting my hand bit or getting kicked in the shin
and she really wasn't... she was not, you know, supportive of me. And so,
you know, I kind of did my thing and you know, but at the same time I...
you know, when I talked to her, I knew that she was close to the mayor.
You know, or I knew she might be working with a partnership on
something, you know, so you know I was always... I was an intelligence
officer in the Navy. I always wanted to kind of like get information and kind
of have a sense of, you know, what was happening politically and so she
was just, you know, one of many people who was involved.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did you ever know of her to be involved with Parsons before Go
Hillsborough?
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MR. SHARPE:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. In what way?
MR. SHARPE:
I think in 2010 there might have been a meeting or two where she said,
you know, Mark, I represent Parsons and they want to talk and so, I think it
was like a coffee meeting or something, but maybe George and....
CPL. HOLLIS:
You're talking about George Walton?
MR. SHARPE:
George Walton. And I'm not even sure if she attended or not. She might
have. But I mean, just like there are people right now who are out there
who do this type of work who represent companies, you know, I just kind
of assumed every company had one of those people and it never really in
my mind ever influenced me or affected me at all. I didn't care, you know,
who represented the company. You know, it was like if it's Apple or
Google, I'm basing it on Apple and Google not on the fact that they got a
local person who represents them. And quite frankly, every company
seemed to have always one or two.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did she seem to be involved in the PLG TED Groups?
MR. SHARPE:
No. Actually, you know, she was more involved... I mean, if there was any
conversation that I had with her in 2014, the conversations were pretty
straight forward. I knew she represented the taxicab companies because I
was promoting. Promoting. I was interested in trying to have a meeting
between the PTC and Uber and Lyft. I support Rideshare. Not like I'm, you
know, breaking the law or anything like that, but I'm a strong supporter of
Rideshare and I'd never used it. I was very even careful (indiscernible). I'm
going to tow the letter of the law although I'm not going to use it. Whether
I'm traveling elsewhere or over here, I didn't want anyone accusing me,
especially when I was chairing the meeting, of somehow trying to even
influence that issue. Although it wasn't a voting issue. It wasn't going to
come before, you know, the board and I wasn't on the PTC. That was one
board I never wanted to be on. But I was like why can't we have.... That's
my wife..sorry. She's traveling to Minnesota. Hold on a second. Let's make
sure.... I told her I was being interviewed, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you need to call her? We can stop. That's fine.
MR. SHARPE:
No. It's fine. No she just forgot. She's traveling to... she's going to a
conference in Minneapolis flying out for 4 days today.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, boy.
MR. SHARPE:
Oh, that's good. Okay. Hold on a second. Three. Good. Okay. Okay, so
yeah, so my involvement with her was very.... There might have been a
meeting or two perhaps where she said Parsons.... Really we never got...
you know, I was never getting into the weeds as to... at that time...
engineering firms are going to be used for what? It was just kind of like oh,
I get to learn more.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because during that time frame Parsons was on the general civil contract
list.
MR. SHARPE:
Yeah. And if they were, I would've... it was never anything I knew, asked
about. I was not aware in... even as involved as I was, again, there were
certain things I didn't get involved in.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SHARPE:
Who got picked to do what. If I get asked my opinion I gave it, but I'm kind
of like I don't want to ever be accused of pushing one way or the other, so
if a company wanted to meet with me, great. I would sit down and talk with
them and I'd met with them, but we talked in general terms about like
transportation and they knew I was an advocate and I think they were
involved with the partnership that was driving the advocacy, but even there
it was kind of like the partnership. You know, I just kind of... that was their
job. I stayed away from it because I was really nervous about tripping over
as a commissioner, which was never really clear. You know, you're not
supposed to use government money to advocate for a tax, so Mike can't
go out and advocate. He can educate. He can't advocate. HART can
educate. They can't advocate. Now as a commission we were... I was
always talking to the attorneys about this. What can I do? Am I allowed to
advocate or just educate? And my understanding... and I should probably
know this better, was I could advocate, but even there I was very cautious
about not using my office. Never sending anything out that anyway implied
I wasn't using... because I felt like A, I'm not going to help much in the
board. The other side's going to use against me. And so and the
involvement in like, and again, who got picked or didn't pick. And at that
time I wasn't even sure in 2010 who was making those decisions because
it was just... there was so much confusion.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
It seems like as a commissioner you put a lot of thought into your
decisions and kind of you're more of forward thinker it seems like; you
think ahead and kind of planning, you know, kind of getting prepared for
any....
MR. SHARPE:
I would spend as much time as I could researching, but I researched

different things. I was more interested in would a system work. I mean
there was a lot of debate with light rail work. If it would, where would it
work? I was very... I wanted... I was always looking at studies and analysis
that would show how a region like ours, which didn't have any rail, and for
all intent and purposes with 196 buses really doesn't even have a bus
system, how do you this from here to where Denver is 1,300 buses and
you know, 41 miles of rail. I mean, how do you... you know, how do you
go.... And now it's going to be many more miles. How do you get there?
And so I was really focusing on is this a smart investment because
originally again when I started out, while I wasn't against rail, I was like I'm
not sure it will work and then I went from being, again, unsure to being an
advocate. I read a lot of books. David Caton did a public records request
back in 2010; wanted every movie, book, phone call, everything I'd ever
done he wanted it and so we took everything I had and said here, it's in
my office. Come on in. It was just too much and all the books including
some great books by conservatives talking about how rail works and so,
that was my focus. There were certain things I tried to avoid where I just
knew that's not the job of a commissioner. My job is not to make staff
decisions. Staff makes staff decisions. My job is to set policy.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Back to Beth Leytham. Besides the Uber or the taxi, did she lobby for
anything else that she would come visit you for? Do you remember?
MR. SHARPE:
I remember I think her telling me one time about Hoe Brown like in a
phone call maybe, you know, but it was very... we really didn't have a vote
on Hoe, but it was involving affordable housing and that crisis, so she
might have talked about that issue. You know we, our conversations in
13... we went through one whole year where she wouldn't even talk to me
because I missed a meeting or did something. I don't know what. She was
really mad at me, so she was so mad we didn't talk. I remember saying to
mayor, what the heck? You know, I mean, and then sometimes, you know,
I mean really my office said who the heck is this person? Because she
would call and she'd yell. I mean one of the times I would take the phone I
was like this and she's screaming so loud. You know, what are you doing?
You'll never ever get elected again. Blah, blah, blah. You know, and there
would be a lot of that stuff. I mean she was... she would bark and then I
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would later say, you know, wow, you know you should've been in the Navy.
I mean you bark like a Navy... you yell like a sailor. She curses like a
sailor. And I mean, so I would kind of say, you know... and she apologized
one time. I'm sorry. But I mean, so I was always kind of like so you know
she was not one... she wouldn't, you know, I mean confide or like call me
up and say hey, we're trying to get this and so again, I'm going to say, the
only conversation.... I had one conversation with her about Parsons and
this contract. It was like two or three days. I'd flow to Minneapolis myself. I
was part of a panel conversation on transit, so it was like.... Called
Rail~Volution meeting and we got to see the rail system. So I was in
Minneapolis. I'm pretty sure it was when I got back. It was right before the
big meeting and she said Mark, this is Beth. You know I represent
Parsons. Just like that. And I kind of laughed and said yeah, I know. Do
you have any problem with the agenda item? And so recollecting back on
that conversation, because I thought back about this after this all was, you
know, coming back in the paper, I'm like okay. The way she said that, she
was like informing me that she worked for Parsons. Like, you know,
maybe I'd forgotten. So it wasn't like we talked about Parsons before in
the last month or two and she was asking me if I was okay with the
agenda item. I don't even think she used the words are you okay with
Parsons getting the contract. It was like are you okay with the agenda item
and I think our relationship at that time was kind of tense, so I think she
wasn't sure. Because sometimes, commissioners you get mad at
someone are you going to go blast them when they, you know, and I'm
like... and my thought was at that time I don't care about you because
you're irrelevant. It's about Parsons. You know and I was in my office
because afterwards I think I hung up and I yelled Eric. Eric! That's Beth.
She's calling about Parsons. Or about the agenda item. And I said are you
sure, make sure we've got everything squared away. You know. And I'd
probably asked Eric 10, 20 times, you know, in the weeks proceeding
coming up to that vote making sure legal had done it's job. Mike had done
his job. I'd sent Eric an email once. I mean, I really have very emails. I
mean, I brought my iPad. I mean, my communications with Beth like
maybe 4 or 5 since 2010 and they were all early emails. There was none
in 2013. None in 2014. Personal. Public, I don't know.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah, yeah. When we're done we will look through all that. I appreciate
that.
MR. SHARPE:
I never went back. I never looked at my emails. When they'd have a public
records request, I always tell staff don't even bring them back to me. You
pick the ones you think you need. I don't even want to see them. I mean
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my office policy was reporters you can come to my office if you want. You
can sit at my desk. You can go on my computer. I would give my phone.
Because the way it works, just so you know, my... I had a Blackberry and
in Christmas 2013.... No. 2012 going into '13, I was in Nebraska with my
wife is from and it like either fell in the snow or got cold and it broke. So for
about a week I didn't have a phone and I panicked. And so Sue Carlton
wrote a piece I think in January of I think it was '13 about Mark without his
phone. Because I was always the wire guy. See I was always.... That's
what challenging for all this is that I was constantly on like Twitter and
Facebook. I was on the radio all the time. I answered every email. When
someone would email me and say are you crazy? Why are you raising
taxes or rail will never work, I was always responding. Oh, no. Here's the
study that says it could work or I understand your concern. Blah, blah,
blah, blah. Almost always on my government. I really didn't.... I didn't ant
people knowing my private email. But my phone, I used my private phone
up until about Christmastime of 2012, but my wife was complaining
because my bills were always high. Not just... well, for the family deal and
I'm like, you know, everybody when they want records, I have a county
phone, but it was a little cheap one. They have to ask for my private and
then I got to go through all that. It's my private phone. I'm setting
precedent. Whether, you know, I mean at the time we weren't sure what
you... what was you kept and what was record and what wasn't. So I
called Eric, I think when I was in Nebraska, and said give me a county
phone and I'm just going to use the county phone. Now I'm going to have
a private phone, but I'm going to use the county phone and I don't want
anybody calling me. Because we had an issue, you know, no like anyone
broke the rules, but occasionally back in '10 and '11, you know, you get an
attorney representing a client going, hey, Mark. You know, are you going
to be able to blah, blah, blah. I said whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You're
calling me on my private phone. Call the office, set up a meeting, come
meet with me. I'll be more than happy to talk to you. But we really tried to
follow that. You're not supposed to call me on my private phone if it's
about an item coming before the board for a vote. Now if you're calling me
to say are you crazy? Why are you supporting rail? It will never work.
Heck, I'd talk to you all night long. But if it's about a vote.... So, for the last
two years I predominantly used my public phone for everything. My private
phone became an old nasty flip phone that my daughter used to use and it
was very difficult to text with, so I didn't really text. No one knew the
number. They didn't use.... I shipped.... I kept saying use my 390 number.
Do not use my 293 number. And so people got trained by 2014. Nobody
used my private and with regard to my emails, it was almost all county.
Because I could go online and pull up my county account and then
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respond and I tried not to use my personal account, because I just didn't
want it getting.... It wasn't that I was afraid of anything.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No.
MR. SHARPE:
I just didn't want it coming in on my personal email.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. SHARPE:
Because usually they were like angry.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Going back to the lobbying. We've gone through the records and I think at
the end of this the way the lobbying is done. I know some things, it looks
like some things are already being worked on at least...
MR. SHARPE:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
For the ordinance, but this is a form that she filled out, Beth Leytham, to
come see you. This name, I think we determined it belonged to the Bass
Pro Shop developer or something along.... It's hard to read and it's not
complete.
MR. SHARPE:
Verardo?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
MR. SHARPE:
Verardo. Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I mean it's 2013, if you remember. Was she representing? She doesn't fill
out the form completely.
MR. SHARPE:
I know that Bass... I mean, I remember the Bass Pro issue. Yeah, that
was.... And Vin Marchetti was really kind of the principal for the Bass Pro
issue. If she was, I wouldn't be aware that she was assigned or not, but I
remember because she was supportive of Bass Pro and I was opposed.
And so I think her conversation to me.... We had one conversation where
she said something like I'm not going to try to convince you. So that
does... you know, become.... You know, I'm not going to try to convince
you, but you should talk and I said I'm going to talk. And I, you know, went
from opposition to support but it had nothing to do with Beth Leytham. I
became a supporter over time really I kind of think I told this to everyone I
met with the board. I was going... we're driving. We drive the 26 hours to
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Nebraska. Told my kids on the way back we're going to go by some Bass
Pros and we're going to take a look. I think we saw some on the way up
as well and I asked my son what do you see when you drive by Bass Pro?
He said I see parking lots full; said it looks kind of cool and all the cool
cities have them. I said, you know, you're kind of right and there was
one.... I made.... In fact when I spoke on the Bass Pro issue, there were
two issues which I was... changed my mind on drives. One of them was
the support of the impact fee when I went from being ehhh. I don't think
we should raise it, but only because I'd made a campaign promise and
Bass Pro was because, you know, it's not high tech. It's not like science.
It's, you know, but at the same time the case was convincing. I thought the
staff did a phenomenal job of making the case that, you know, for a
modest investment in what the county is supposed to do, which is road
projects, over a period of time, the revenue that comes back would meet
the cost of the roads and then it would generate revenue for the county
and Mike was.... Mike... and even Ron Barton. Because Ron was
supportive and I was like Ron, Bass Pro. Good grief. So I might have met
David. I don't know if that's David. Verardo. I know Verardo because
Verardo was like the developer, but....
CPL. HOLLIS:
And then you had mentioned Beth was very clear to say, you know, Mark,
I'm representing so and so.
MR. SHARPE:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So you mentioned the one about I'm representing Parsons before the big
meeting. Are you talking about the October 21st meeting?
MR. SHARPE:
I'm pretty sure it was the October meeting. It was right before I left office.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SHARPE:
It was right after I got back. I took... whenever I took my trip to

Minneapolis, which I think was in September; end of September, middle of
September, so it was between my trip to Minneapolis and when I came
back and we were having that vote. Because it was... I remember it being
right before the vote and I remember it being when it was evidently
already published and on the record that because when I said to Eric....
She didn't say... she might have said... she said I represent Parsons and
she might have said do you have any problems with Parson getting the
contract? But it was really more like do you have any problems... it was
really short because we had kind of gone through, like I said, kind of at
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that period some, you know, anger calls. And so she just kept it short and I
said no. I'd already talked to Mike. I'd already talked to the attorney. I'd
already talked... I think I'd made a call to Ray Chiaramonte and said, Ray,
Parsons, are they the right one? He's like, oh, my God, Mark. They've
done all the AA work. They're a perfect firm. I'd already talked, I think, to
Eric Johnson and Eric had said oh, my gosh did you follow the process.
So I was like done by that time. So I was kind of thinking that's interesting
she waited till the very end. I don't recall, so I'm hoping there's nothing that
pops out that says she talked to me before because it was that one call.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No, no, no. this was just....
MR. SHARPE:
That was.... Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
This was a different matter, but just showing one of the issues we found
with the lobbying protocol is just that these forms aren't completely filled
out.
MR. SHARPE:
We never.... I'll tell you. Our office.... And I asked Eric about this. It was
because we were so busy trying to keep track of our own stuff. We knew...
because Eric... really it was more of Eric's domain than mine, but Eric's
message to me was it's their responsibility not ours to fill out the form. So,
you know, we might have said, he might have said on occasion make sure
you fill out the form. I don't think I ever asked. I would ask, because when
they came in like that, I always made sure I had someone from my office
sitting with me. I tried to have someone sitting there and I would say okay,
you know, because it was on my calendar. Everything's on my calendar,
you know, everybody I met with. You know, who, what, why? What are you
representing. But you know, if she.... Like I'm trying to think. I have a pretty
good memory I think going back even to 2004 of my meetings. I don't
recall who came in on that because honestly until you show me that, really
the person who registered in my mind on that project was Vin Marchetti.
Vin was the attorney who was advocate for Bass Pro.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SHARPE:
If Beth got hired, she got hired later and you know, and it was... to me it
was almost completely irrelevant.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SHARPE:
You know?
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Would you say that Beth has had any influence on, I guess vendors or...?
MR. SHARPE:
You know, I mean here's the thing. I was aware that there were... I mean,
and I don't think I was really truly aware of the sense of the influence of
Beth according to some until I was kind of heading out of office. I mean, I
knew that she was close to the mayor. I knew that. I mean, so when I
would see Beth, sometime I think well, there you know there's someone
who's close to the mayor, so if Beth would say something I would maybe
mentally think okay. Now I kind of have a sense of what the mayor's
thinking, but the mayor can think for himself.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. SHARPE:
The Mayor... you know, the Mayor has strong willed people around him,
but the mayor is a strong willed person himself, so... like me and I like
strong willed people. I want people around me who are diversion opinion.
But I was always clear; I make the decision. I never... I can't think of any
time that I was in office where a lobbyist, my aide, and we would have
screaming matches in my office. I mean we would... I mean we'd close the
door, Eric and I, because we went through every vote, I mean pretty much.
And I told Eric I said I'm going to be clear when I talk to the Sheriff. He
said yeah, through me under the bus. But I mean especially, I was more
concerned about zoning issues than the board and Sunshine is very a
sensitive issue, but you can understand how when you're voting on a
zoning issue, you know, during land use how those issues were incredible.
Because those were quasi-judicial meetings and so we were paranoid
about not talking to anyone or not following process because you don't
want to get sued. You didn't want someone on either side going you had a
meeting you weren't supposed to have and now you've just completely
poisoned the entire thing. And so I wasn't worried about, you know, doing
anything improper because I knew. We're not going... our job.... All I
thought about when I got elected was get out of here without being in the
newspaper for doing something wrong because the only thing I've got is
my credibility. That's it. I mean my ability to work after I leave office is
based upon my ability to have people believe in me. Other people they
might be known as being strong or they might be the type of guy who can
push through, you know, push through something. Mine was you're going
to trust me. And you know, and so I thought even when I was leaving well,
what if I... what do I do? Am I going to be a lobbyist? Whatever... how do I
do this? And you know, and my style would be, you know, I don't take
people to dinner. I don't schmooze with golf. I would try to show them here
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are the facts that make the case. And so you know, how a person
represented themselves, you know, I was more interested in the business
that I was dealing with and then I would sit down with Eric, usually Eric, on
land use say, Eric, go through all the land use. Eric... sometimes would sit
in on the briefings where I wouldn't even be on the briefings and I was
would go through all them all... vet them. If there's one that you think
there's a problem flag it. And so what would happen would be Eric go
through land use and then when I was chair, Eric would go through all the
agenda items and he would generally go through all the items anyway,
review them, and I would... I'd have a copy. He'd have a copy. I'd flag how
I thought I was going to vote. He flagged how he thought he was going to
vote then we'd sit down and we'd go through them and I'd say yes. He'd
say yes. And then we'd go back and forth and if there was one where I
said yes and he said no, the reason I said yes. I said well, what's the deal
Eric and then we'd go back and forth and if it was a real big issue I'd say
go okay. Go get staff. Get someone in here. Let's go over it. And there
were occasional times when we would be arguing out on to the time I
walked onto the floor and then I'd say Eric, I'm done. I'm going to listen
because there were times, you know, I mean the point of having a meeting
is you're supposed to here the testimony and you're supposed to not have
made up your mind rigidly, but be able to walk out there and go wow, I've
been convinced and that happened with me on a couple of issues, big
issues, where you think you're going to go one way and you're just
completely swayed by, you know, the testimony or lack of testimony and
you cast your vote.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right before the August 2014 meeting, the PLG meeting, there was a
media unveiling, I guess, of what Mike Merrill and his staff had put
together a list of projects.
MR. SHARPE:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And it was end of July 2014 and you showed up to that with Beth
Leytham.
MR. SHARPE:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you remember that?
MR. SHARPE:
I didn't show up with her.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Was that...and that's what I wanted to ask you about because when
we talked to Ms. Lopez, Liana Lopez of Communications, she mentioned
that you showed up to this. Beth was with you. She didn't allow Beth to
come in because it wasn't open to the public.
MR. SHARPE:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And so I just kind of... if you remember that kinda of conversation.
MR. SHARPE:
Well, I remember that meeting very well.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SHARPE:
Yeah. We walked in and I wanted to be there because I want... you know, I

was like... Eric Snyder was a reporter from the Business Journal who was
there I was talking to. I got... I did not bring Beth. I don't think I
communicated to Beth. In fact, when I saw her I was like surprised. Oh.
Beth's here. That's....
CPL. HOLLIS:
So ya'll kind of showed up together?
MR. SHARPE:
Oh, yeah. I mean, if I... you know, because the meeting was... I don't know
what time it was. I think maybe early afternoon. I don't know if it was a... I
don't remember exactly, but you know I mean I didn't come to... I wasn't
going to be there late, so I think I got there, you know, maybe 10, 15
minutes before the meeting started, but she wasn't there when I arrived.
I'm pretty sure when I arrived then she popped in. Now Liana was in a
different part.She's bringing... Now I do remember some are thinking wow,
Beth's here. Okay. But I wasn't thinking Parsons at all. I was thinking
mayor, because see that's the one thing you asked me about Beth. You
never knew. I mean like, okay, and I wasn't... and again, Beth's
relationship with Parsons to me was like as insignificant.... I mean, you
know, I've had people say well, you know, she influenced.... I could've
cared less. And Parsons is like, again, Parsons is a big company. They
didn't need a Beth Leytham, because quite frankly Beth was nice, but she
didn't understand transportation. So you know, but I did know that Beth
was involved like with the division, she was close the mayor. I was more
concerned is the mayor going to be buying in to this process and I don't
know. I also know that Beth, you know, was close to other commissioners,
but that was one of those deals where I never asked Beth. Occasionally, I
might have said to Beth once or twice wow, after meeting you know Hagan
did good. He said... he was strong that day or something like that. Not
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don't pass it to him, but I was just like, you know, he did good. But so I
knew that, you know, there was the... you know, the talk that she was
close to Ken, but how close, it was none of my business because I didn't
want to... it was like, you know, first off if I had said hey, Beth, what's going
on between you and Ken. The first thing she'd do is she would have gone
to Ken and Ken would be going what the heck are you doing and I'd have
Ken mad at me. So like, you know, I mean or occasionally I would say to
Ken what's going on with Beth because Beth's always yelling at me? So
there might have been one time you know I said, you know, but it was like
pretty much.... So when she's there I was kind of like, hmm, but then Liana
told her to leave and I don't think I was there. I'm trying to think how I
knew. Either I walked in and I didn't see Beth and I went Liana's and said
what happened to Beth. Because I did ask and Liana said we told her to
leave. I went whoa. I was kind of like well, why did you do that? And really
my thinking was if Sharon Calvert had shown up I would've said let her in.
I looked at Beth as... see, you know, here's the thing. Beth at that point in
my mind was not an advocate for the referendum or a tax. Let me...I mean
clear. Beth can be a bit of a... you know, it's who she works for.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. SHARPE:
So does Beth have like strong feelings emotionally about transit? Is she a
pro-transit person? If you ask me, I would say no. Beth thought... That's
why she didn't like me because I was like I'm driven by not emotion, but
I'm driven by wow. I came in thinking it's a bad idea. I'm studying it, I'm
reading it, I'm talking to a lot of people. She's like don't talk to all these
people. Why are you always talking...? If I heard anything from her it was
why are you talking to...? Because I want to learn. I'm not on the team. I
don't start with I'm on a no side and I'm going to stick with no all the way
through and that made some people uncomfortable because I could, with
the exception of Eric who's the one person who I would probably say to
Eric, you know, here's what I'm thinking. I really didn't share it, so I could
walk in that meeting and go God, I talk to 7 people and you know what? I
thought this was a bad idea, but I've seen it's a good idea and Beth didn't
like that. You know, because Beth's job was to know where people were
so she could report back to whoever she was reporting to.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. Right.
MR. SHARPE:
And you know, and I was very much very clear with not just her, but many
all the people that we dealt with. I think differently and it protects me. You
know? So, you know, because I will walk in always knowing, you know,
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there's a chance I might change my mind. So in that case she left and I
was like why did you chase...? I mean like who asked her to leave? And it
wasn't like I was concerned so much about her, but I'm like oh, gosh. We
can't start this process where we're now pushing certain people out
because now she's going to leave and be mad and she's going to attack
and I was thinking she's now going to be on the opposite side attacking
this, because I wasn't sure at that time truly where she was. Like was she
a supporter or not a supporter. Would she go out and advocate against it?
Would she tell the mayor or others this is a bad idea. Don't get behind it.
And so really that was my concern.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you ever reach out to her after that to see what happened?
MR. SHARPE:
I think I talked to her.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SHARPE:
Yeah. I think I called her. I don't know if I called her that day, but I called
her and said, what happened? You know, and she says I'm fine. Don't
even worry. That's what it was like oh, it's not even a big deal. I'm fine. I
said okay and really it was kind of like, again, I would've talked to her the
way I would've talked to Sharon Calvert. I was calling her not like hey, you
know, best friend what happened to you? I was calling her like hey, you
know, I'm involved in this process and I'm getting... I'm watching us now fly
down this path where it's going to start getting picked apart. I didn't want
her picking it apart and was really kind of concerned that she was going to
attack and so I called and said.... I think I called her. I don't think she
called me. I think I called her probably from my county phone and you
know, right after.... So maybe right after the meeting and said what
happened? She said no problem and that was the end of it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you remember offhand your county phone number?
MR. SHARPE:
My cell number?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. SHARPE:
390-5092.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I just want to... 390.
MR. SHARPE:
5092. Pretty sure it was 92.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. I know you mentioned....
MR. SHARPE:
But I didn't use my county cell. I don't know.... I mean not... you know, it's
hard to know. Sometimes even in your office you might use your cell.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. SHARPE:
I tried to use my desk phone. I don't know if I called on my desk phone or

my cell phone.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No problem. And you're aware of her relationship. You mentioned Ken

Hagan. What about Sandy Murman?
MR. SHARPE:
You know, I think I might have read... I might have heard through others
that she was close. I think people said oh, she's real close to Beth, but I'll
tell you. I was kind of surprised because in the summer she... you know...
if I talked, you know. I'm trying to think. I want to make sure I'm not
confusing after I left office because I know somewhere after I left office,
somebody had a conversation with Sandy,you know, Beth, you know. Why
is driving this thing? And she's like I don't know. Beth shouldn't be driving
it. So I was never sure where their relationship was whether it was really
strong or not. You know.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you get the sense just from knowing Beth that she could try to take
advantage of a friendship or a relationship to push a certain agenda?
MR. SHARPE:
I never saw Beth as that type of a person.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SHARPE:
I mean Beth pushes. Beth pushes hard. But it's interesting. There are
certain, you know, consultants and lobbyists out there that you just kind of
know in your mind they're pushing for business. You know? I didn't really
take Beth as a person who was pushing for business because she was
close to the mayor and you know, I think she was... you know. I mean, so
not like she was getting business through the mayor, but I mean she could
talk with the mayor. I didn't get involved in the city's business, you know?
And so you know I just kind of saw her as just a strong willed voice and
there are certain people.... And that's why, you know, it's interesting the
relationship with her. She wasn't just a lobbyist. There are certain people
who kind of elevate above a little bit. And I'm not saying she necessarily
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was in that group, but there's maybe the type of people who are kind of
like, you know, they're like public... you know, I say public advocates, but
there are. There are certain... I mean, we have them in citizens who show
up at the meetings. I mean, they will be doing the same thing calling up,
you know, wanting to meet, asking questions. Why are you doing this?
Why are you hiring this person? You know, some of the people who
showed up at all of our board meetings we called them sometimes some
of them are the FTP, same 10 people. You know, they'd show up at all the
meetings and I would treat them like Beth. They'd call up and angry,
yelling. I would try to explain. Here's what's going on. Here's why we're
doing what we're doing. And some people would say well, who would
know any Jew, you know, the guardian of whatever? And so there were
times that I would kind of bark at Beth like who anointed you? You know,
why are you... what business is it...? I think I might have said like what
business is this of yours? And then, you know, that would be the end of it.
But she just kind of was that person. So it was like, you know, you just
kind of knew and like I said, my office kind of knew. You know. I mean,
she's not going to like it if she hears it, but they didn't care for her that
much, so when they called... when she called, they were kind of like oh,
it's Beth.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Fair enough. As an elected official at the time, you hold yourself to a

higher standard and it just... and you're nodding your head yes, because
you know obviously....
MR. SHARPE:
Oh. Yes, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Just from hearing you, I mean it seems like you took your job very
seriously and that you worked for the people of Hillsborough County.
MR. SHARPE:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
If you could go back and do anything differently of this Go Hillsborough

process, is there anything that you would've changed? Given now with all
the scrutiny?
MR. SHARPE:
Sure. I mean you look back.... Because I knew full well we were going to
be attacked. I mean, I expected it in 2010. I didn't expect it to the ferocity
of 2010, but I mean they were literally putting my cell phone. I remember I
was on vacation and a gentleman calls me up yelling at me and I'm like
how did you get my cell phone number and they had put it on a TV ad. I
remember my wife brushing her teeth one night watching Monday night
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football and there was Mark Sharpe, you know, he said this and now he
said that and I'm thinking who paid for this ad, the TV ad? And then says
call Mark Sharpe and they put my cell number on and my wife is brushing
her teeth, walks into the room and says.... And I said this is what we're
dealing with. The newspaper stories were brutal. You know, and we made
a lot of mistakes in 2010. A lot. It was... you know, because again, I felt
like we were always at a disadvantage. Because of Sunshine you can't.... I
mean, you think gosh, wouldn't it be nice if we could sit down and talk to
the other commissioners and say okay, what are you thinking? This is a
bad.... Maybe we should do it this way. You can't have any of those
conversations, so you have idea.... And I'll tell you, I felt like the board
really bent over backwards to not violate Sunshine. Everyone was so
paranoid about violating Sunshine. We wouldn't go to lunch. You know, we
wouldn't.... You know I mean occasionally. Maybe some of them did. I
didn't. I think in the 10 years I might've had lunch with them once or twice
and generally it was when I was getting ready to run for reelection. I'd say
yeah, I'm thinking I'm running for election, you know, and that'd be kind of
lessons learned and that'd be it. But no conversations about anything. So
you know I thought a lot about 2010 and the mistakes we made, so I was
trying not to replicate the 2010 mistakes. Be more open. Get it out to the
public. And so as much as I wanted to rush it, you know, I didn't want to be
in any way irresponsible, have another loss on my hands. You know, I was
willing to.... I sat back and endured these, you know, 18 months of
meetings and Herb Marlowe dragging it all out so slow. But if you look at
this, if you ask mistakes made. Sure. I would.... You know, staff was so
emphatic about how Parsons was.... Because the whole issue of Parsons.
Okay. Parsons.... Now Beth was not an issue. Let me just say, Beth was
not... I didn't even... I mean, just for the record, I was not aware that Beth
was going to do the job she did until I think I read about it in the paper and
read how much she was getting paid. I mean there was a part of me that
was going whoa. I mean, I don't know if it was December. I think I was in
Nebraska again. Usually we go there at Christmastime and I'm reading the
story. I'm like whoa, they hired Beth or whatever and they're doing this. I'm
like okay. I knew it was going to be a lot of story. You know, and I thought
how I would've done it if I'd been there. It would've been tricky because
our job was not to in any way direct who was hired. As I understood the
decision to hire Beth was made by Parsons not by Mike.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Correct.
MR. SHARPE:
And so Parsons was probably trying to read the minds of the

commissioners and thinking well who's got the confidence of the
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commissioners, who has the confidence of the mayor and who is like...
and Beth can be this way. Strong. Like damn it, this is what you did wrong
last time and here's what we're going to do. So and she worked for them.
So they could've made that decision. I was becoming aware as I was
leaving that there were certain firms who are on the other side of Leytham,
you know. Who were probably prodding Noah Pransky and at the time, I
don't think Noah was on my radar until well after I'd left office. But I was
aware there was some sensitivity. It really wasn't about Beth and the
county because Beth never as far as I knew had a contract with the
county. I mean, that's why I was kind of like what's the deal with Beth?
Because you know she... and in fact when I said... I think I was talking to
one firm, a PR firm... oh, the decisions been made to go with Parsons and
I think it was after we had the vote and I heard oh, yeah. Well, you know,
Parsons, you know, they always, you know, get the city, you know,
contracts or whatever. And oh yeah, they got Beth. And I remember...
because I was in my car. I remember this conversation as well, I'm going
are you kidding me? Parsons? They're like one of the best firms in the
country, so I'm thinking... registering that's not an issue, at least with me
and that shouldn't be an issue. And I think I said to the individual, it was
pretty smart, why are you making that an issue because they're one of the
best firms and they followed the process? And they said, oh, you know,
well, they probably.... I think the rumor out there, they're saying, well, they
got picked because of Beth and I was kind of like.... And I felt the same
way I feel now is I felt that are you kidding me? Beth? Beth in no way, from
my perspective, influenced, you know, that decision because.... You know,
I really felt like Mike is a professional. Staff, they're professionals. If Beth
was trying to have prodded it, Mike would've come to me if he didn't want
her. Now if Mike... if someone's saying hire Beth and the mayor is saying
we like Beth and Mike's thinking Beth's really good and he makes a
decision and they make that decision to go with... to go with Parsons. If,
you know, if Mike thinks that's a good decision and he's making that
decision, you know, he might've said to me, you know, wow, everybody
wants them. He never even communicated that to me once. Ever.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SHARPE:
Ever heard that from Mike. All I heard was we're making a decision. We're
going to hire an engineering firm and we can hire Parsons and Parsons is
the perfect firm. They've done all the AA work. It was kind of like a natural.
You're like oh, of course. So you already thinking well, okay, because I'm
already looking what else is going to be the trip wire if this not this
decision, but then I did get the Sharon Calvert emails almost immediately.
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I think Sharon knew about Parsons before I did. I almost want to say that
she kind of had a sense of it because I was really kind of like that's not my
decision. So I'm....
CPL. HOLLIS:
There is that memo that went out September 5th. Because if she was
doing any kind of public records...
MR. SHARPE:
Oh, she was sending out emails.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. So then this was from John Lyons and he was a group that was
selected by Mike. His team took over.
MR. SHARPE:
Right. Right. Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So John Lyons, Mike Williams, Larry Scully.
MR. SHARPE:
Boy. Yeah. And I think that she saw that, Calvert. Is this the first time? Is
this the first...?
CPL. HOLLIS:
That would have been when it was made, I guess, public.
MR. SHARPE:
Now I don't... I'm, you know, maybe I saw this memo. I don't recall this
memo. And I think I.... Because I'll tell you the one thing I just don't recall
completely, and I've even asked Eric this. When was the first time that I
heard Parsons got it? I don't recall. Like, was it at the board meeting? Was
it when a memo came out? Did Eric tell me?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well there was another memo in October where actually Mike Merrill gave
it to every... all the commissioners. All the members of the PLG. Just to
recap, you all, you directed me to select an outside firm.
MR. SHARPE:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
This is who we've selected and then he actually went down the entire
process, which he reiterated at the board meeting.
MR. SHARPE:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
In his opening statement he just read verbatim that memo he prepared for
you all in October.
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MR. SHARPE:
So that's.... You mean.... Yeah. We were.... Because again, lots of... you
know, Mike making, speaking to the public. Mike talking. Mike giving us
board meeting or coming into the pre-briefing meetings. You're getting a
lot of briefings, but it was all coming out at that same time and as that rush
of information is coming out about Parsons, I'm pretty sure I was getting
incoming from Sharon Calvert and I don't know if it was September. It
might've more October, at which point I turned one of those emails around
immediately fired it off to Eric, fired it off to Mike. I know I fired it off to Eric.
I believe I fired it off to Mike, but I asked Eric to fire back to Mike as well
and saying there's like 6 or 7 questions here. I want it thoroughly vetted.
How was the decision made? Is this the proper decision? And I think in my
message to Eric I said we're not going to make the same mistake as
PSTA. We're going to respond immediately and we're going to be
accurate. And so, you know, it was kind of like yeah, I want to know. And
then somewhere in there is when I talked to Eric Johnson and said
everything... this squares up and he's like it more than squares up. So I
was like alright.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Any ethical issues that you're aware of with this process?
MR. SHARPE:
Now I mean if you ask.... Okay. I apologize. I don't think I answered your
first question. What would I have done differently?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, yeah.
MR. SHARPE:
Would I have of...? Like, would I have...? I mean the one glaring question I
think even the Times said was well, they should they have been gone out
and bid for this...?
CPL. HOLLIS:
For this procurement. Yeah.
MR. SHARPE:
Looking at the amount of money.... Because see here's the thing; I don't
know if I was aware at the time before I was even leaving how much they
were going to spend. They sure as heck hadn't decided on all those
meetings. A lot of the decisions about meetings and the outreach was
done when I was gone, so who they were using wasn't my decision and
how many meetings they had wasn't my decision. And so when they
brought in Beth, I'm like whoa. I just think that's a lot of money. I
would've... had I been in office, I would've been barking loudly about any
bump up beyond what was agreed in the original agreement. You need
more money? Too bad. And I think the moment... and I was already out of
that office, so I couldn't have corrected that decision, but the moment this
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whole half cent to a full cent, I don't know how that all happened, but I
would fired Beth. I mean, so, had I been on the board.... Because
technically I couldn't do something like that. I would've said to staff publicly
and probably privately, clean up this mess because you're now losing the
confidence of the voters. You're losing the confidence of the board. Al
Higginbotham is now already saying, you know, he no longer supports and
it didn't take much. I knew that it was going to be all it took was a little bit,
we'd lose Al Higginbotham. We have to follow this process very carefully.
To Al's credit, he has the right to.... But before then, the only decision
would've been how that contract was lead and you know, we'd used it
before. I mean the decision by staff on I think even hiring Herb Marlowe. I
can't guarantee, but I think they had had a preprocess so they could pick.
So with Parsons they had the preprocess and I think what I heard if I
heard back from Mike verbally was like well, Commissioner, you know,
there's some concern that if you go and you bid it out it will take time.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. SHARPE:
It will be expensive and then we're going to be attacked for wasting

money. Especially when we know likely it's going to line up the way, you
know, it's going to line up and, you know, so it was kind of like.... And I
think I remember it... and I think I was sitting down when I heard that
explanation and I'm like okay. You know? And as long as it (indiscernible).
Is it legal? Chip's checked it thoroughly. It's legal. You know, and I think, so
I'm pretty sure it was a Mike conversation in my office. Eric might or might
not have been in my office, but the door was open and we're just going
back and forth and I'm like, so you're sure this is the best route? And Mike,
you know, could be pretty like.... So I was like I wasn't going to go out to
the board floor and say damn it, you know, bid this thing. You know,
looking back I probably wish we'd done that. But it wasn't unethical. It was
the process they used. I mean I want to say this. I really think that Mike
always demonstrated to me the utmost in ethics and we ever crossed
over, if he ever thought that I or anybody else crossed over, he was not
shy to tell you. He would say, and you know, a couple times he'd, you
know, get mad at me not because I was crossing over the line, but I might
say well, damn it, Mike, you know, why did this staff member screw up
this, you know.... Maybe it was a garbage issue or whatever and he would
be very clear. You know, you have a problem, you bring it to me. You don't
bring it to staff. So you don't go around me and I'll take care of it and
sometimes it'd be you know my job as administrator, and so even as close
as we were, Mike wasn't shy about.... You know, and having been in the
military, I've had admirals that did that to me, so I was like yes, sir. I got it.
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And so that's why, you know, at least from my office, we wouldn't have
ever gone around Mike and said, hey, whomever and at the time I wasn't
aware John.... I don't know what role John had. I read in the paper he
made the decision. I don't know. I would never have gone to John
because if John had gone to Mike and said, you know, Mike.... Because
this is what would happen. If commissioners went around to staff, staff
would take it back to the administrator and the administrator would, you
know, flare up and say this is inappropriate. And so, you know, our office
never did it and I never wanted Mike to come in and bark at me and go
you know, what in God's name are you doing pushing Parsons or
something like.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SHARPE:
And I've got... and I will just say for the record, I did keep my text
messages with Mike going back to like 2013 and there was never a
conference... a conversation ever with Mike. Text, that I'm aware of, on
email where I ever said anything about Parsons or a contract or anything
like that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Are you aware of any Sunshine issues, Sunshine problems during this
whole mess where knowing the scrutiny was going to come, if anything
was ever destroyed or gotten rid of?
MR. SHARPE:
By...?
CPL. HOLLIS:
By any commissioner, by yourself? Did you...?
MR. SHARPE:
I've kept, in fact, ever legal pad for 10 years I still have them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh.
MR. SHARPE:
So every legal pad, every shred of paper, every call that came in. If
someone... if Eric gave me a little note that said some... and I was... I'm a
prolific doodler, so I would always doodle and I would always write notes
and I've got like in my notepad and in my iPad I've got... I don't know how
far going back, but I kept all my notes. Because what I would normally do
would be I would go and, from the meetings, either notepad it or on the
iPad and I go back... here's '14, all the way to '11. So you can see August
26th, you know, '11. Kick-off list. You know, all sorts of issues going back to
'12. I don't know what the bar bill is. Some of this public. Because see this
is all my accounts. So I kept everything.
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DET. PORTALATIN:
For the recording, we're being shown on the iPad..on the notepad.
MR. SHARPE:
Yeah, this is my iPad. So I kept, you know, all of my stuff. And so going
back to '13 and '14, Bar Camp. A lot of it was.... Well, see now it was like
all West Shore final grades. Okay. So there were grades. I teach a class.
Brad Feld and that was Brad Feld. HCC jab. I guess that means... you
know, oh, it was a letter I wrote to Jeb Bush. Okay. So that type of thing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
MR. SHARPE:
But I went back and, you know, there was.... I kept it all. So I tried... you
know, I didn't ever go back and delete my notes. I never threw away my
notepad. What I would do with my phone the last year was I gave my
phone to Eric because my private phone was that old flip phone that really
was difficult to text with and really there were no texts on there. I gave my
public phone to Eric and said Eric, take it up to the attorney and ask what
we got to keep. Because we really didn't have a rule and I don't... and you
probably know more than I do. Our thing was that staff, Mike had told staff
they had to keep texts if it was related to work. For the commissioners, I
don't know how... if it was clear or not, but we followed or tried to follow
staff rule. So emails obviously we didn't delete, but text messages which
were only on my county phone, which I always assumed if it's on my
county phone, someone's got it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. SHARPE:
I mean I was kind of always thinking, alright, if I'm texting on my county

phone, someone out there's... the county. Who knows? Read through my
text. But I would... I gave them to Eric and said Eric, you know, pick them
up. Or one time Eric actually spent 3 days copying all my texts. I don't
know if it was in September or October somewhere in there he took them
all up to Mary Helen and she said this is all extraneous. You don't need to
worry about it. So from my perspective, I mean that's a lengthy answer.
From us, no. Not intentionally. Honestly, not intentionally because I was
more afraid about deleting something that was stupid and then having
someone later, like you, or someone else coming and going what is this?
Then keeping it and then I'd have to explain it. You know, and so we didn't
have that problem. And I really, and I mean even Noah asked me, you
know, were you aware of like Beth going around and like maybe, you
know, did she or anyone else ever call and break Sunshine? You know,
no. I mean, because we would usually... I would always say, hey, you
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know, we're bound by Sunshine and often times it would be like a routine
piece of the conversation. I mean this. At least with the... not just Beth, but
you know any of the attorneys representing clients who would come
before the board, they would call us and I would say okay. Because they
have a right to know what my opinion is or my position. I said yeah, but
you know, you can't report this back to another commissioner because we
would say, you know, you're going to violate Sunshine unintentionally and
we were always concerned it would be an unintentional violation where
they'd start talking and pretty soon, and God forbid, I don't want to be in an
email or a text where someone's saying, oh, I just talked with Mark.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
MR. SHARPE:
And you know, Mark says blah, blah, blah, and so like when I even read
one of those texts where it was kind of like I just... I don't know. It was I
think a Beth text. Maybe a Beth text where she's.... Oh, I think she had
sent it to Mike and she said oh, I talked to Sandy and I talked to Ken.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Ken. Yes.
MR. SHARPE:
All I was thinking was, thank God I wasn't in that. Because I was trying
to....you know, I don't share that because I don't want to get in one of
those messages. So I think they, I think the commissioners did a pretty
good job. As chairman, I mean I really felt like everybody really did their
best to not violate it and sometimes it's tricky because it's, you know, not
always completely clear and sometimes it almost like, like what if Beth just
had a conversation with Ken. Okay? And now she calls you up, because
that's her job to call the commissioners up. Well, now, you know, she's
talking to you. She's not supposed to say hey, I just had a call with Ken.
Here's what he's thinking and sure as heck not supposed to say oh, now
tell Ken if he'll do this I'll do that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. SHARPE:
Those things didn't occur. If there was ever like a oh, I just had a... I just
spoke with so and so, then we would... you know, what we should say was
well, you can't share that information and I would say Beth and everybody
else is very good about saying oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because nobody
ever wanted to be on the wrong side of a Sunshine issue.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
And because of her involvement with elected officials and what she had
done. I mean, you met her in '03, '04, she seemed to be... did she seemed
to be... did she seem very educated in that process?
MR. SHARPE:
Yeah. I thought she was. I think a couple of times I had to say to her you
know, text messages are part of the Sunshine. I think I told her that.
Because I was always kind of like don't text me.
CPL. HOLLIS:
How would you all usually communicate?
MR. SHARPE:
Usually by phone.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SHARPE:
Occasionally.... Now, I mean again, there wasn't a text or two, they were
all like, you know, her going you idiot. You know, why are you pushing.... I
mean it was really.... If we had a communication on a text, it was about
that dadgum PTC issue where I was promoting Uber, Lyft, and trying to
get a meeting between Cockream and Uber Lyft and she was furious and
so I think I might have sent her a link that said here's what they're doing in
Denver. Here's what they're doing in California and I think Eric took that up
to whomever and they said that's totally unrelated to anything you dealing
with. But even there I was kind of like just don't text. I think I said to her,
you know, anything's that's texted.... I think I had said it just really to
protect me from her. Not like she was doing anything illegal, but just to
quit. Like, you know everything you text is public record and then she said
oh. And I think she kind of like was.... And she goes well, like what phone
is this? I said this is my county phone. You're communicating.... If you call
me this number.... Because I don't know if she knew, you know, when she
called that number if it was a county number or a personal number. I said
it's my county number.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Real quick. Just a couple more questions.
MR. SHARPE:
Oh, sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I know with hiring a vendor, anybody that they hire as a subcontractor, you
all... do you all have any involvement?
MR. SHARPE:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So if Parsons is hiring her as a subcontractor...
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MR. SHARPE:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Even though yeah, she's making all this money, but essentially you're
giving parsons X amount of dollars to fulfill their needs and what they do
with that money as long as they're coming in with the end product.
MR. SHARPE:
Oh, God yeah. Because see here's the other side of that, you can't tell
them not to do something because if you can tell them not do something
you can tell them to do something. And pretty soon what you could be
doing is saying well, we'll hire you, but you got to hire my friend.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. SHARPE:
I mean that's what you wanted to avoid.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. SHARPE:
And so if that's the implication here, I don't know. Maybe I'm just really
stupid, but you know, for me it was always when you hire a firm they're
responsible for making the decision as to who was best to hire and, you
know, that decision would be based upon who they thought could best
communicate with commissioners and with the public. But we would not
get involved in that because again, the same thing. Parsons would just
bark. What if they didn't hire this person and then they go say you know, I
got so and so asking me to hire such and such, you know, and then they
would go and complain to Mike or maybe they'd complain to me. And I
think we were all real sensitive, you know, Kevin White and everything
else. Don't stray over that line, so we didn't and I don't think, you know, I
can't say what the other commissioners did, but you know.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And you mentioned that she had been under contract with Parsons back
in 2010, 2011, and then obviously with the Go Hillsborough project in
2014.
MR. SHARPE:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Would it surprise you if she was actually under contract prior to the Go
Hillsborough for Parsons to do public outreach or communications?
MR. SHARPE:
Oh, yeah. I mean I....
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Would that surprise you that she was under contract with them?
MR. SHARPE:
Yeah, I didn't think she was anything other than their rep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SHARPE:
You know, like their... like, you know.... And I honestly wasn't even quite
sure what that job was. What do you do? You're the person who
introduces us to Parsons. I know Parsons. They don't need to be
introduced, but you know, that type of thing. But if she was, I mean I
wouldn't be shocked because I knew she works for them, so maybe she'd
carried out responsibilities and duties. The only thing that did surprise me,
because as you remember my reaction when I read it was wow, how much
they're paying that person.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SHARPE:
I thought that was crazy.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And you answered this, but just to reiterate, at any time did she try to force
Parsons or encourage the hiring of Parsons?
MR. SHARPE:
Never.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SHARPE:
Now again, the only conversation we had about Parsons that I recollect
and I'm not using that word to, you know, because I really... I mean, and
I've asked Eric. I said Eric, did she.... You know, because you know we
pretty much bounced off each other a lot. Do you remember? Do you
remember me saying anything? Did I ever say oh, you know, we're... she
wants us to do it with Parsons was right before and I yelled it to him. He
was on the other side of the wall. I was kind of laughing. I was kind of
thinking, God, I'm getting out of here. You know, in my mind I'm thinking is
I've only got a couple more weeks of this and now I just want to avoid
anything. No trouble. Eric! You know, I think the phone was off. That's
Beth. And then we got the... oh. You know, that type of thing. I said, you
know, she just said she represents Parsons and I was kind of being
sarcastic and I said she asked do we have any issue with that agenda
item. I said Eric, do we have any issue with that agenda item? So it was
one more time just to check and it kind of some of this was like, you know,
I don't want to get overly military, but what you do in the military is you
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repeat. You keep asking and you know, have we checked this. Yes. We've
checked this. It's a way of assuring you know that we've done something,
because sometimes Eric would tell me something and forget to do it. So
I'm like okay, did we check? Are we sure? He was like Mark, that thing has
been checked more times than.... It's fine. Because I didn't want to have to
later go back at the board meeting and say well, hold on a second. I'm
really not comfortable with this and then really have a mad Beth on my
hands and so really, it was just to make sure that, you know, we were
completely clear. We had checked. The answers were good. Everyone
was satisfied. And so I could... you know, I could walk into that board
meeting and say, which I think I said, which is they're a great firm and you
know, I think they'll do a great job.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Very good. You have any questions?
DET. PORTALATIN:
Two quick things. The first thing, you mentioned that she had told you or
she would often times tell you it start off almost comically, Mark, you know,
I work for Parsons.
MR. SHARPE:
Right.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Are you aware of any other commissioners who may have had knowledge
of that as well or had she let anybody else know prior to the selection that
she was with them.
MR. SHARPE:
That she was with Parsons? I think they all knew. I mean I don't think it
was any... it was no mystery to me early on. I don't know if I knew how far
prior to 2000 and.... See here's the thing... I mean this is... you know, the
other piece of being a commissioner and the job, the part that I hated. You
know, when I ran for office, people write checks. When you run for
reelection, it's a whole new story. Now it's like oh, gosh, are any of these
people going to come up in a vote? How do I vet this? And or you call
certain people who are very active in politics and would, you know, host
events. Could you help me? I need to raise money. You know, I've got to
raise money. So you put your campaign hat on and so they would say
well, I have relationships with this company, this company, and this
company. These have been my vendors and so, you know, I think that
people would've known she was representing Parsons because I'm sure
going back and even probably with me. I don't know. You know, that she,
you know, probably said oh, Parsons. You know, Mark Sharpe's got his
event in such and such or Ken Hagan's got his event in such and such. So
you would've known I think that she represented them that way and then
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you would also just know because I think, you know, whether it was
parsons or InVision. I'm trying to think of the things that I knew, you know,
and then I guess Bass Pro, which really is interesting. Bass Pro. And you
got me on that one, because I was kind of forgot about it till the very end.
But I think she came in late on Bass Pro. And even there, she didn't lobby
me. She didn't lobby me. Because she kind of knew I was an against and
in fact, I remember thinking when she hung up, I remember thinking you
know, I'm already kind of leaning like I might go for this, but I didn't tell her.
It was like none of her business, she didn't ask me and it's not going to be
to her credit. You know? I'll make the decision based upon my own. But so
she was pretty good, at least with me, and I couldn't imagine anybody
wouldn't have known, but I don't know. We just didn't have that
conversation.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Okay. And the other question, is just more for my curiosity, why, if she was
to often time call in a criticizing tone or you're saying some of things you
were saying she was saying, why allow it to go on? Why even give her the
platform to speak?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah, I think my wife asked me that question a couple of times and my

office asked me. Because it my pattern. I mean, I would talk to Sharon
Calvert. God, Calvert would just... my ears would ring from Sharon Calvert
going back and forth. I'd invite to my office more than I invited Beth. You
know, I met with Rashid you know until he ran someone against me in
2010, so probably 2009 just trying to understand where are you on this
issue. My mission always was to disarm, so to speak, the folks I was
dealing with by understanding them and so I'd listen. And so yeah, I'd want
to hear what she thought because I knew she was respected. I knew that
she had the ears of others and so when she would be barking at me, I'd
learn something. Now there were times when there was... I'm like to hell
with this. I'm done. I mean, I don't know if I ever hung... I might have hung
up on her once. I know she hung up on me a couple of times. Because I'm
like who the hell are you. I mean, you know, you're yelling at me. I'm like
what is this? I mean really kind of thought... there was a point where it got
really frayed and it was really was.... Here's the thing. That's probably why
we had so few conversations about this. Our relationship as we got into
2014 was frayed and it was really again about that one issue. I don't
think... I'm trying to think if it was anything else and then prior to that, the
year before, she was just really mad at me because I think she thought I
was maybe going to run for mayor. I hate to put that out there. But I think
there was a little bit of that. So there was a little bit of this kind of like... I
just felt like she was always digging me and I'm like I'm not running for
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mayor. I didn't tell her. I think finally I said I'm not running for mayor. But so
she just you know didn't talk to me and so... and when she did, it was
sometimes negative. Even after I left office. I mean like I knew like with the
reporters and I knew with the like the editorial board. I'd call them and talk
about an issue. I could almost tell, you know, the way they would
communicate with me. They talked with her maybe and she had already
positioned them against me and I was like, Beth. And so... you know,
Beth.... I mean I'm not just saying.... Because if she was a close friend, I
would throw her under the bus. I'd say she was a great close friend and
she didn't violate her trust. But she and I, you know, I would never have
hired her and I found her to be as positive as she was. I watched the
interview with Noah. I thought it was awful. You know, I was just kind of
like that's what you get with her.
CPL. HOLLIS:
One of the things, to just to bring up Beth, that she said in that was that
she would come as a constituent. That she would come as a citizen, but
when you're representing a firm, how do you... can you separate yourself
from that? Are you able to?
MR. SHARPE:
I think that you can, but you have to be careful. I was always cautious. I
always put, you know, Beth and others like her who were kind of lobbyists
in the same bunch. I always knew they represent someone. And so, you
know, I didn't vet things through them because I knew they had their own
prism with which they would they would run it through and then report
back to me on what they thought maybe to their own benefit, which put me
at a disadvantage sometimes because I might not know as much I wanted
to know. I mean, here's the thing. I always thought we were like little
islands. We just didn't know what was going on. You'd think we were the
center we should know everything. We often times didn't know anything.
We didn't know what Al was thinking or Sandy was thinking because we
weren't out there asking, because if you're asking the first thing, if you ask
somebody, hey, what do you think Al is thinking? Al that person does is go
out and speak, hey, Mark's asking what you're thinking and pretty soon
you know, someone's yelling, he's trying to violate Sunshine. So I really
tried to not do that. So you didn't know. So we asked why I would take the
call because sometimes if she called me, it was not.... I was allowed to
talk. I mean we weren't like you can't talk to these people. So... and it
wasn't like I was trying to get information I wasn't supposed to get, like
what is Sandy thinking. I didn't care. But if I could learn from her her
thoughts on an issue, her perspective on something large and global, it
might help me understand like even on transportation. I mean I was really
thinking more along the lines of would rail have a chance? I mean, really I
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was thinking was this package going to have rail entered or not and I was
coming to the conclusion, it's not going to have rail in it. And the only thing
I was trying to convey to anyone who'd listen would be make sure when
you do something this time, we go into Brandon and Fish Hawk and
Wimauma and we really talk with them and we engage them and we
understand their concerns. That's what I was thinking about and focusing
on. Not like, you know, the engineering firm, I could've cared less and
who.... Like I said I think in a newspaper story that was ran a couple of
days ago, 20 years from now who set the meeting up or who poured the
coffee.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Right.
MR. SHARPE:
You know, or who was the guy that got the paper contract? I mean,
honestly that to me was like who cares? All I care about is 20 years from
now we have a transportation network that can rival some of our
competitors and I would like to be able to say I had a part in something
that big and I knew it was going to be very difficult to move us to that point
and I was very concerned, and I think I voiced this to Mike and others, you
know, and I've said this. You know, you asked me lessons learned, if we
can't spend a million, can we spend a billion? You want to ask me what my
concern is? That. If we can't properly spend a million dollars, can we
spend a billion or three billion? And I don't know if I know the answer to
that. You know, I mean because what we'd have to be is hard-assed about
who we hired and you'd have to hire people who are really good and go all
you guys that are floating around trying to get a contract, go away. You
know, because you're not going to get it. You don't qualify. Here's what we
need and we're going to bring these people in. Now I have confidence that
Mike could do that. So that's why even this issue here, maybe you call into
question his judgment about her role. That was the decision made by
Parsons and I don't know what role Mike had in that if he had any. You
know, I would ask myself, you know, is that the right person to carry on for
me? No. But I felt confident that Mike could make the tough decisions
because you're going to have to make tough ones, otherwise, my God,
this is just the beginning. You know, because I can tell you this issue will
pale in comparison to if it passes. God forbid. I think I had this
conversation with them before. Don't worry about it losing. Worry about it
passing because when it passes, you got to spend $3 billion and everyone
of us are going to be like run through the screener a million times and
that's going to be.... And I really didn't... and I was like..part of me was like
do I want to go through that? Even like this is a little nerve-wracking. So
it's like, you know, but yeah. Because at the end of the day it's worth it if
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you can move transportation forward and I think we have the right people
in place in some levels to do it. I didn't mean to give you a soliloquy.
DET. PORTALATIN:
No, it's okay. Appreciate it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
We appreciate the insight because, you know, we're learning more about
county government and the process then we ever thought we would. So
thank you.
MR. SHARPE:
Mike took us from no process to process. I mean my complaint with Pat

Bean, the reason I really was one of the leading advocates for replacing
her was that I felt we didn't have a process. I felt that was where... not like
she made any decisions she shouldn't have made, but I kind of felt like
how do you ever go back and.... And I said this to Eric. Eric, if I get hit by a
bus tomorrow, someone's going to ask about every vote I cast. Are we
going to be able to say how we got to that conclusion? Can we show them
the evidence that I used? Can we show them the conversation? Can we
show them even the papers where I said yes and you wrote no or
questioned it to be able to demonstrate how we got to that decisionmaking process? I felt early on we didn't have all those processes in
place. I really felt like Mike... and it took him a little bit longer than he
thought, because he even said that at one of our meetings. Mike was
really getting us towards a place where we have process. So Mike really is
a process guy and to me what hurts the most about this, even though he's
a big boy, is that you know, this group, which I don't think quite frankly
cares a bit about... and not all of them but some of them, truth or.... They
just want to destroy the... they want to smear the referendum. That's why
they wanted to go to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. Not
because they thought... you know, and I thought it was being disrespectful
to the Sheriff's Department. Well, the Sheriff's Department is more than
capable of caring on this, but they wanted like maybe go to the Justice
Department or the Supreme Court.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. SHARPE:
Because then they could be oh, that referendum that was investigated....
And that was I always felt their strategy how they would destroy it, but
what they also were doing was, I felt, going after people's character and
you know, the commissioners can stand for themselves. But Mike, you
know, I really thought Mike followed the process. I have the utmost faith in
Mike Merrill. I think he is a stand up guy. Not always right and sometimes
made mistakes and I've told him before, but for the most part.... and I think
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also because of his background. I think with seminary training, but I really
think he's like, you know, in someway we'd both would talk about the fact
that the here and now is... you know, so when you're gone, you know,
they're going to look back and what do they remember about you?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. SHARPE:
You know? And I think, and I want him to be remembered as being a man
of integrity.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. Any other comments? I think we're all done.
MR. SHARPE:
I'm sorry. I just....
CPL. HOLLIS:
No, you're fine. Do you have anything?
MR. SHARPE:
Nothing for me.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. If we had a question later on down the road could we...?
MR. SHARPE:
Oh, absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Get you...
MR. SHARPE:
Any time.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I appreciate it very much.
MR. SHARPE:
Or Eric for that matter.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Very good. I'll stop the recording. It's 2:27 p.m.
End of interview.
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Attachment Description: MICHAEL MERRILL #1 INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:
For: 4602

2015-691857
Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222493, interview Michael Merrill, Hillsborough
County County Administrator
CPL. HOLLIS:
Today is October 21, 2015. The time is 2:32 p.m. This is Corporal Charles
Hollis. ABN is 5603. This interview is being conducted in reference to the
GO Hillsborough investigation involving the Hillsborough County Sheriff's
Office. This interview is being conducted at the county building downtown.
Also present for the interview, sir, if you would state your name, please.
MR. MERRILL:
Yes. Michael Merrill.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Would you spell your last name?
MR. MERRILL:
Yes. M-e-r-r-i-l-l.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. MERRILL:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And I have that... I have your consent for that, correct?
MR. MERRILL:
Yes, you do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And also present for the interview?
DET. PORTALATIN:
DET. CLARK:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Mr. Merrill, may I call you Mike?
MR. MERRILL:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is that okay? Would you raise your right hand for me? Do you swear or
affirm the information you will provide to me today, the truth, the whole
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Re: Interview of Michael Merrill
MR. MERRILL:
Yes, I do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Put your hand down. Thank you. So just in the way of introductions, you're
the county administrator?
MR. MERRILL:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So how long have you been in that capacity?
MR. MERRILL:
March of 2010 as acting county administrator and then subsequently

interim and then permanent, so.... But really since March of 2010.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Had you done that anywhere else before?
MR. MERRILL:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No. And prior to March 2010, had you been employed with the county in
some capacity?
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. For a year and a half before that I was an assistant county
administrator reporting to the county administrator who I replaced. Prior to
that, I was the Director of the Debt Management Department here at the
county since January of 1988.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So you've been in the county quite a long time.
MR. MERRILL:
28 years. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And Lucia Garsys, is that the position you used to fill and now she's the
assistant? Is that right?
MR. MERRILL:
No. It was really a whole different executive team back then, so it's kind of
a different structure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So what are your main duties and responsibilities?
MR. MERRILL:
So I am appointed by the Board of County Commissioners. I am one of

two employees; three employees under contract, so the county attorney,
the county auditor, and me all have contracts. Everyone else is a regular
employee. So I'm hired to basically run the day to day operations of the
county; to carry out the goals and policies of the board, and anything that
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has to do with that. So Fire Rescue, Solid Waste. All of the typical
functions, other than of course the constitutional officers.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But the direction you receive is from the board essentially?
MR. MERRILL:
Yes. Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And that's who hires you. How long is a contract as the administrator?
MR. MERRILL:
The current one goes through 2018, November 2018.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So since 2010 or...?
MR. MERRILL:
No. It's been like I think maybe two extensions since then.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And I guess, what departments fall under your direction?
MR. MERRILL:
There's a number of them, so I can....
CPL. HOLLIS:
I mean, Public Works, do they...?
MR. MERRILL:
Public Works, yes. Public Works.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And a lot of county business falls under your direction?
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. Probably the better way to do it is what doesn't fall under me, so it
would be the Sheriff.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. MERRILL:
The School District, the Supervisor of Election, Tax Collector, Tax

Appraiser. Basically everything else generally falls under me.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. When you were brought on as the administrator.... I know you said
you had been the assistant, was there any training that you were
brought... that was brought to you that you went through on how to be an
administrator or is kind of all on the job training?
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. It's mostly on the job. I mean there are individuals who, you know,
they... when they're in college they want to be in some sort of an
administrator job and they'll actually, you know, do a... set a course for to
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Case No: 2015-691857
get them there, but no. That was never something I was aspiring to. So
no, there was no formal training other than what I learned from being here.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
And just being assistant county administrator.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I mean are there any standard operating procedures? I mean, we

have that at the Sheriff's Office. Any rules or regulations that, I mean, you
agree to as part of I guess the position that you're holding?
MR. MERRILL:
Mm-hmm. Yeah. So the contract I have sets out sort of basic expectations
in terms of following the charter, County Charter, which defines my role,
you know, following county policies, ethics and so forth. There are board
policies that get adapted from time to time that basically address
operations. There's administrative directives that I issue to basically run
the government, so there's like a whole body of policies and directives that
determine what I can and can't do. The board delegates by their choice
some powers to me. The rest of it's reserved to the board, so.... And that
just varies by function.
CPL. HOLLIS:
In regards to public records and what things that you're supposed to keep
and I mean, you've... as far as we can tell, you have really kept good
records of everything as far as text messages and that sort of thing.
Things that you can control I guess.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I mean, emails a different scenario.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So was there any kind of training on this is what you need to save, this is
what you need to do, this is how you need to do it? I mean, how did...?
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. There's regular training that, you know, either formal or it's just kind
of signing something that says, you know, that you have to do this. So for
example when texting became more common.... Because you're right.
Emails have never been a problem. Our IT system archives everything
and you know, we don't even have to think about it. Any documents that
are in the computer system that's easy. We don't have... our individual
notes are not public record, so notes that I take in meetings are not public
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record. Phone calls are not public record. Voice mails are not public
record. But when texting became more prevalent, there was a policy
issued I think under the prior county attorney giving direction because our
systems don't automatically grab text messages. As far as we know, we've
looked high and low. There aren't any systems that do that primarily
because everyone's cell phone the way we do it, we typically don't issue
county cell phones unless it's a real necessity. We've gone away from that
to stipends, so everyone has their personal cell phone and they get a
monthly stipend and then that means that text messages are just not
captured because it's not a county phone. So our direction was that
anything that was not a so-called transitory text message, which was
defined as hey, I'll meet you here. You want to go to lunch? That kind of
stuff. That didn't have to be archived. Everything else had to be archived.
So... but it was up to every individual how to do it and for the most part,
everyone was just taking screenshots, forwarding them by email like I
would to Michelle and then she would put them in a file. So....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. You mentioned the stipend. Is that a voluntary thing?
MR. MERRILL:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So you don't have to get the stipend. If you want it you can receive
that.
MR. MERRILL:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Is that something that you receive?
MR. MERRILL:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. You receive the stipend.
MR. MERRILL:
We've got most most everybody onto a stipend program. Like I said we
issue very, very few county cell phones. It's expensive and it just doesn't
work very well, so either folks have declined to take a stipend, but most
everybody has one.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I mean there's a stipend program with our office as well, but it's voluntary.
Are you aware of any of the commissioners that have a stipend?
MR. MERRILL:
I think they all do. I'm not sure for absolute sure, but I think they all do.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But again as far as preserving the text message, that's left up to you
how you do it as long as it's done.
MR. MERRILL:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So if the situation were you were in a conversation with a commissioner

via text and it was something that needed to be saved, do both of you
have to save it?
MR. MERRILL:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Both of you are required. But if say you save it but the other person
doesn't, but that record is preserved is that an issue that you're aware of?
MR. MERRILL:
Technically, I don't know if that would be an issue legally. I mean, like they
say the direction was that everybody was responsible for archiving their
own text messages. So I mean that's I guess technically everyone's
supposed to do it. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you sometimes seek the guidance of the county attorney and his staff
for situations like that?
MR. MERRILL:
Oh, absolutely. And they're really the ones that determine how that works.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. MERRILL:
So it wasn't left up to every individual departments or individuals. I mean it

was here's the way the County Attorney interprets it and here's his advice
and that advice was given to everybody including commissioners.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And speaking of the commissioners, aside from the BOCC meetings
and then even the policy leadership group meetings, how often do you
meet with commissioners?
MR. MERRILL:
Well, I meet with them regularly the two days before every board meeting,
so that's a normal briefing. So the Monday and Tuesday of this week for
example, would have been my regular briefings and those are one on one
or by phone. Other than that, it's pretty much when they need something
or I've got something really urgent and I'll either call or meet with them, but
there's not a... other than that it's a scheduled meeting.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
And what are the... I guess, what are the parameters about that when
dealing...? Because they're elected officials, I know there's rules involving
that as far as what's public record and then the communication aspect of
it. You can't be the go-between.
MR. MERRILL:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So can you just kind of touch on that a little bit?
MR. MERRILL:
The basic rule is that I can't... no county commission... no county

administrator can poll commissioners on an issue that's pending in order
to somehow telegraph kind of what the outcome's going to be. And so, I
mean that's just the hard and fast rule and other than that, there's really
no other rule. Otherwise, the conversations can go anywhere.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, sure.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So I'm sure there's instances where they share with you their views on a
particular issue that's going to be brought up.
MR. MERRILL:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Now when you're there meeting with them, are you kind of going over...
like say before the meeting today, did you kind of go over the the agenda
or what you might be presenting to them so they have an idea of what
you're bringing forward to them? Is that normal?
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. Normally what happens is that, I mean agendas get a lot of stuff on
it, so we don't go through everything. I usually have some items that I
think they need more background or information on. For the most part it's
up to them if they have questions and... or issues and so I'll usually start
there and say is there any items on the agenda that you're confused
about; you need questions answered and then I'll go into anything that I
have and then there's also... I usually have a period of time where there
might be general issues that are not on the agenda. So for example, we
just went through the two year budget, so you know, basically every
briefing for a board meeting I always carved out a little bit of time to talk
about an upcoming budget workshop or something like that or it could be
any kind of general topic that's not on the agenda.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
So I kind of take advantage of the time. I just....
CPL. HOLLIS:
So you're basically a source of information for them to kind of get them

ready for the meeting with certain issues just to make sure they're, I guess
well-versed on certain topics? Is that fair?
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. I think that's fair, but you know, it could be other issues that are not
on the agenda. So if they have a particular initiative or program that
they're interested in and they want to know what I think about it and from
the staff point of view from the service point of view; what kind of costs or
implications might there be, and that would be long before they would
even think about bringing a commissioner item to a board meeting.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. MERRILL:
I mean they're all different. You know, some want my opinion more than
others and that's fine. I mean, you know, it's up to them and I don't usually
push them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. That was going to be one of my questions. Is there a particular

commissioner that you meet with more than another? Is there one that
seems more... I don't want to say needy, but one that you know, you tend
to have to go to more than the other?
MR. MERRILL:
There are a couple of commissioners who want more contact with me

than others. Yeah. I would say probably Commissioner Murman wants
more communication, Commissioner White and Commissioner Beckner.
The others it just depends on the issue and, you know, they'll reach out to
me if they need something.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, obviously the reason that we're here talking with you is about the
letter that you addressed to our Sheriff.
MR. MERRILL:
Yep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Requesting... and I just want to read for the record. The purpose of
requesting this investigation is to determine whether this procurement and
contract award meets all requirements of Florida Statutes and of county
commissioner procurement policies and whether there has been any
violation of State of Florida Ethics rules as applicable.
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MR. MERRILL:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
When you drafted this letter dated September 21 of this year, what was
the environment going on and the reason that you drafted this letter?
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah, the environment was that, you know, we had been involved in the
GO Hillsborough effort for, by that time, a year and a half or more and
really it was the result of Noah Pransky reporting that highlighted the
Parsons contract issue that then triggered a number of events that, you
know, mostly were reported in the press. I mean there were questions
before that. Like, Sharon Calvert, Ken Roberts who had gone to the
Clerk's Office and asked for an independent review and Peggy Caskey,
who now works for Commission was working for the Clerk and of course,
she issued her opinion saying it looks fine. There's nothing to audit. I
mean that ought to have been sufficiently independent because the Clerk
doesn't work for me. I have no control over her and it did kind of just go
dark for a while, but then it was really the Pransky thing that kind of got
everything stoked back up again and it was really then beginning to have
an impact on reaching a conclusion in delivering the transportation
product, which was really the most important thing. So the questions that
have been raised about whether the contract was procured legally, was
there any political influence, without disposing of those allegations would
have made it very difficult to ultimately get to where we wanted to be,
which was to ask voters potentially to tax themselves because of the trust
issue. So at that point, after a lot of thought and a lot of, you know, talking
to some folks; Chip and others, you know, I felt like I needed to just do
something. And the something was to reach out to the Sheriff and to the
State Attorney and I did talk with them both by phone I guess it was that
Friday before. I think that was Monday.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. When this was issued. I believe you're right. I think it was a Monday.
MR. MERRILL:
Just to see what, if they were willing and what the process was and I
mean, I wasn't taking it lightly. I mean, this was serious and.... But, you
know, the consequences of not addressing the issue was far worse. We
just have horrible transportation needs as you guys know, so that's what
then resulted in me asking for the investigation.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Now had there been a similar initiative tried before back in 2010?
MR. MERRILL:
2010? Yeah.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Any kind... were you involved in that?
MR. MERRILL:
On the periphery I was..that was before I was county administrator, I was

assistant county administrator, so I was involved more from the finance
side of things. That was run more by the Mayor's Office at the time.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
Mayor Iorio had taken the lead on that. The County Commission by law
have to be involved because the County Commission is the only elected
body that can actually put that sales tax on the ballot.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
So we were involved in that sense, but I really wasn't involved with any of
the..., you know, the background stuff that was going on or any of the...
you know, the background stuff that was going on or any of the policy
decisions and that kind of thing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But you were able to kind of see how it was run and were able to
learn from what happened there, the mistakes I guess that where made?
MR. MERRILL:
Mm-hmmm
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because essentially, it never made it on the ballot, right?
MR. MERRILL:
No, it did.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. It failed.
MR. MERRILL:
It failed. And I can't remember the split, but yeah. No, we... well, I... all of
us learned a lot. Primarily, the biggest lesson was that there hadn't been
enough time spent reaching out to the community of asking everyone in
the community what they wanted, what they needed, and if they'd willing
to pay for it. It was pretty much City of Tampa-centric. It was primarily a rail
system. And so, yeah, we learned a lot about how to actually conduct it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I'm just kind of go a little bit through a timeline.
MR. MERRILL:
Sure.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
In May of 2011, and then referring to the 94-page assessment that Peggy
Caskey put together, it mentions May 31, 2011, the procuring a process
began approved by the BOC. Basically, the 53 firms giving the getting the
general engineering contracts. The date I'm just... and I can obviously ask
Peggy, but I didn't know if you knew, May 31, 2011, I'm not finding any
kind of record of how she came to that date. There wasn't a meeting that
day. It mentions the Board of County Commissions began the
procurement process, so I didn't know how that all evolved if you know.
MR. MERRILL:
No, I don't. You know, I was county administrator at the time, but I mean
things like that at that level I don't get involved in. I don't get involved in
procurements.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
So I let... they have a Procurement Director. I let staff handle it for the very
specific reason that, you know, I'm actually... the county administrator is
actually the second to last step in the protest process before it goes to the
board, so for me to be independent, I can't really get involved in what's
going on. So it wouldn't have been unusual for Public Works to go ahead
and engage in an RFP process to select a group of consultants. And there
wouldn't have been any need for me to get involved in it unless there was
a protest.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And because it was such a large pool to choose from, have you all done
something similar to that where you were choosing from a large pool of
companies like that? So that wasn't unusual.
MR. MERRILL:
No. We continue to do that. They're called WORCS contracts; W-O-R-CS, and the whole idea is that, you know, time is money and when you
have a big project to do you don't want to be spending a lot of time at that
point going through an RFP process to select consultants and contractors.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. MERRILL:
So.... Or you may need them on the front end to do the design or the
engineering. So the idea is that you go out and select a group of qualified
firms that can do a specific scope of work and then they're basically there
for the point in time where you need them to do something and those
WORCS contracts have a shelf life. They end after 2 or 3 years. Can be
renewed. But we use it in Public Works; we use it in Public Utilities; we
use it in a lot of different things, so it's not uncommon.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
And again, your involvement... really you weren't involved in it?
MR. MERRILL:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You obviously have people in place that you trust them to do their job.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Are you familiar...? Back in 2011, there was a house bill that tried to get
passed; HB 135. Are you familiar with that bill?
MR. MERRILL:
What was it?
CPL. HOLLIS:
It's related to procurement.
MR. MERRILL:
Oh, okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And specifically, Florida Statute 287.055, talking about procurement. It

failed. Ultimately, they were trying to change some of the language in the
statute dealing with compensation and being able to renegotiate, open up
negotiations after the process if somebody was eliminated for whatever
reason and they could reopen. I mean, the policy failed, but what's
interesting is that was in May of 2011 and then this procurement process
began with the county a few weeks after, so I didn't know if there was any
correlation. If you're aware of anything. If there was some waiting to see
what was going to happen with that bill before the procurement process
started.
MR. MERRILL:
I'm not aware of anything. I never... I can't even remember what that bill
would have been about, so I just don't remember that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is it normal.... Do you all have people in place if there is a bill up in

Tallahassee affecting the inner workings of the county that you would have
somebody up there to keep an eye on things?
MR. MERRILL:
Oh, yeah. I've got a Legislative Affairs Officer, Brandon Wagner, and his
team primarily is responsible for putting forward the county's legislative
agenda, but also being up there during session to make sure that we don't
get, you know, side....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. Oh, no. We have that with the Sheriff's Office, too. Yeah. Absolutely.
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MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And you had answered this, but the county has done this process before...
this large of a pool to choose from.
MR. MERRILL:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So then on June 6th of 2012, the 53 is narrowed down to the 10 and
the 2-year deals are signed. Is the Direct Select Method that you
mentioned as an approved method, where does that terminology come
from? Approved method. Who kind of approves that? Is that where you've
gone to the attorney to get that or is that just something that you all have
always done in the county or how is that an approved method?
MR. MERRILL:
I don't know how long the county's been doing it, but it would've had to
pass muster with the County Attorney's Office. I don't know whether it's in
the statute or whether it's just in our procurement policy that actual
provision, but it would've had to been approved by County Attorney. So
every agenda item it goes to the board has to be signed off by the County
Attorney. So that initial selection of the 10, whittled down to 10, would
have gone to the board and as part of that, it would've had to provide for
Direct Select Method.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Would that be direct selecting for a specific project.
MR. MERRILL:
Specific WORCS projects, right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But as far as going from 53 to the 10, that's the procurement
process is it not?
MR. MERRILL:
Right. That would be the actual RFPs, the review of the RFPs, the Award
Committee, the selection process, which is.... I mean we use that just like
you all do for every contract, whether it's the WORCS contract or whether
it's just a single procurement, so having an awards committee, having a
selection committee is all the same.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And the Direct Select Method, how often is that used?
MR. MERRILL:
I don't know.
CPL. HOLLIS:
More often than not or...?
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MR. MERRILL:
Probably not more often than not I mean because it would only really
apply to construction contracts or consultant contracts because we have,
you know, like the Sheriff's Office has, we have thousands of
procurements in a year. Some portion of that would be consultant
contracts, construction contracts that would have or not have embedded
into the Direct Select Method, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is there a reason why a Direct Select Method would be used as opposed

to the full procurement process?
MR. MERRILL:
Well, it would have to be... the Direct Select could only be used as part of
a full procurement process. So in other words, they would have had to
gone through the entire selection process to get it down to 10 firms in
order to use the Direct Select.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
Which is different than say a sole source, so you know, under

procurement rules we can sole source work to somebody if certain
conditions are met. They're either the only one who can provide it or
there's something unique. Like for example, for example, our pumps and
our water waste water system are a certain brand and there's only one
firm that provides parts. But sole source, also has to be advertised so that
anybody out there can say no, we can do that, too. That's not a Direct
Select though, so different.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But.... I understand. I understand what your saying. May 2013 is

when the TED or now the Policy Leadership Group is established. Do you
know why that group was established?
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. I established it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. That would be my next question. Who established it? So that was
you...?
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. So when Mark Sharpe was still on the , he was chair in his last year.
I remember this day vividly. I'm sitting in his office and he said, because he
had been part of the 2010 effort that failed and the boss kind of grinded
him and he was a big transportation advocate. I think he still is. And he
said, you know, I know that Pinellas Green Light just failed, but you know,
we can't just sit still and not do nothing. He said and no one else is going
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to do it unless you do it. I said why is that? And we talked for a while and I
said well, let me get back to you; see if I can put some thoughts together
on how this might work and I went back. I said well, one of the things that
should've been done in 2010 was to get the elected leaders invested in
this on the front end. What happened in 2010 was that it was more staff
driven and then it was only brought to the elected leaders kind of towards
the end and so they really didn't, weren't invested in it. They didn't, you
know, weren't part of it. So I said the only way that I'll do this is if the
mayors of the three cities and all the county commissioners agree and the
chair of HART to form this Policy Leadership Group and be willing to meet
for months probably to get to a place where we can put some solutions in
place. And I went and talked to all the mayors. They were up for it.
Commissioners were up for it. Of course, probably didn't know what they
were getting into, but nor did I. But... and so that's really how it started. We
called it Transportation for Economic Development and that went on for I
guess a little over year until that meeting in August of 2014 when they said
to me, go out and hire a consulting firm and then the consulting firm
Parsons and Beth Leytham came up with the Go Hillsborough brand.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
That's how it became Go Hillsborough. It was really the same process. It

was just they changed the name.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So the Policy Leadership Group, I mean TED, all that.
MR. MERRILL:
It's the same.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Go Hillsborough, it's all kind of the same thing.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So in forming this committee, that the goal of it was to get this

transportation initiative that failed in 2010 back on the ballot?
MR. MERRILL:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I guess it'd be 2016?
MR. MERRILL:
2016. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So that was really the purpose of establishing this group?
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MR. MERRILL:
Although we.... But the other piece to it was that we were going to look at
all options, even though a lot of us believed that the sales tax is really the
only viable alternative. It's why cities and counties across the country
choose it. It's a reliable source of revenue. It's just flexible. You can do a
lot of stuff with it. We said no. We're not going to presume that that's the
answer, so we'll go through the grinding process of looking at all revenue
sources; gas taxes, ad valorem, to basically get the community to to a
place where they were comfortable, that we weren't just trying to jam, you
know, sales tax down their throats. So that was really the process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Now as far as the Policy Leadership Group, who governs that board?
MR. MERRILL:
Nobody really because they're not officially constituted.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
They agree to come together as a body, so the chair of the county

commission just by default kind of acted as the one that kind of steered
the group, but it.... So any votes that they would have taken were not
binding because they weren't officially constituted. Because, like I said,
the only body that can actually approve a tax or put in referendum is the
County Commission.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So kind of jumping ahead; so when Parsons was to present everything,

that was going to be to the board or to the PL...?
MR. MERRILL:
Policy Leadership Group.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But voting to put it on the ballot, but that has to essentially come
from the commission. But because they sit on the board, that will be okay
to do?
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
So what we needed was, because the transportation solution had to be

community wide. It couldn't just be for the unincorporated areas that the
county commission governs. It had to be the cities, it had to be HART; the
bus system. And so the idea was that getting all of the leadership of those
groups together with the county commission, acting unofficially together to
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say yes, as the elected leaders of this community, this is the direction we
should go would then help give the county commission more support and
comfort that when they actually had to vote to put it on a ballot. They knew
the cities were on board, they knew HART was board, and they weren't
just hanging out there swinging in the breeze.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. MERRILL:
First time I met her was probably in 2005 or the early 2000's. Ironically,
there was a transportation task force going on back then and she was...
actually don't know if she was hired or whether she was volunteering her
services to be kind of the staff to the task force and so I just met her once
in a meeting that was related to that group. Prior to that, I mean I knew the
name, but I hadn't really met her and that was the only time I met her until
or talked with her until, you know, the Go Hillsborough thing started.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. That task force you mentioned, do you remember who was part of
that? Was that with the county or was that...?
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. Again, it was a larger group of stakeholders, like Planning

Commission, (MPO, Metropolitan Planning Organization), some
representatives from the cities. There was a joint chairmanship; Ken
Hagan and Les Miller were joint chairs of the group? Again, informal
group. Not officially constituted, but same kind of mandate, which was to
try and find solutions for transportation problems.
CPL. HOLLIS:
When you met her back in 2005, what kind of work was she doing then?
MR. MERRILL:
You mean professionally on her own?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. MERRILL:
I never asked her.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
I assumed she was doing the same thing she's doing now.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Some kind of consulting or public relations type of business?
MR. MERRILL:
That wasn't what she was doing as far as I know for the task force. She
was just being an administrative... I can't even really tell you what she was
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doing for sure. I mean, she was keeping track of the minutes and the flow
of documents and I don't even know if she was being paid, but....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Would there have been any reason to contact her since that time
before the Go Hillsborough thing?
MR. MERRILL:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
The first text that we have record, which you provided to us, was dated
September 13th. I have a copy of it here. And obviously, some of these
texts we obviously don't know the context, so hopefully you can shed
some light on that.
MR. MERRILL:
Sure. Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But it's... and this is your phone number here up at the top?
MR. MERRILL:
No. That'd be her phone number.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, from her.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I'm sorry. Yeah, you don't have her saved in the....
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But anyway, so it is Beth Leytham. I've been through most of docs and
clear there is an informal referral approach policy or no.... I imagine it is
pragmatics of situation that only a handful of (indiscernible) owners will
serve this population, accept low money, and wait on money to process.
Do you know the context of that?
MR. MERRILL:
That was back when a number of issues arose about homeless services,
service to homeless individuals. It got sparked by an investigation by one
of the newspapers about Hoe Brown's units that he was renting to people
and there were some issues with code violations and other things and
that's what she contacted me about because I think she was representing
Hoe Brown as a PR consultant or something. So what she's talking about
there is the way that clients, homeless clients or other low income clients
got referred get referred to any particular rental unit or apartment or
whatever it happens to be.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, and contacting you about it. Is Code Enforcement under your
direction?
MR. MERRILL:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright. Now how did she get your phone number? Do you know?
MR. MERRILL:
I have no idea.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Was it anything that you remember giving to her?
MR. MERRILL:
Oh, God, no.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
No. No, I was pretty surprised when I got it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, I mean she says it's Beth Leytham, so you wouldn't have known, you
don't have the contact saved there.
MR. MERRILL:
And it wasn't really clear until she said that she was representing or
somebody told me she was representing Hoe Brown and then I started
trying to put things together. I mean, I guess the context of it was that she
was.... I mean, because some of the clients have got placed into Hoe
Brown's units were clients of our Social Services Department and so I
think that's the connection she was trying to make. But I mean we were
already on top of the issue. There really wasn't much that.... I mean, there
wasn't much that she could have done. I mean, when I found out that our
homeless... I forget what we used to call it. There was... the unit within
Social Services that just dealt with homeless. When I found out that they
were referring homeless clients to substandard housing that they never
inspected, never followed up on, I fired the two guys who were in it and I
immediately reconstituted it and so I mean we were already on top of it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Before the Go Hillsborough process, was Beth Leytham involved in

any other consulting work for you or with the county that you're aware of?
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MR. MERRILL:
Not for me. I don't think with the county. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I mean, just in the text we've gotten, she obviously seems
comfortable giving you information. Most of your responses to her are
okay or thanks or you don't respond at all.
MR. MERRILL:
Right. Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But she feels comfortable in, I guess, sharing information with you through
text. Is that.... How would you characterize, I guess, your relationship with
her?
MR. MERRILL:
No relationship. I mean, I think that's just.... I've kind of learned that's just
her nature. It's the way she does business. I mean, it makes sense. You
know, you just... you want to get to know a lot of people and so I guess
because there was this connection between her client Hoe Brown and our
homeless services that somehow, you know, that was an attempt to try
and start a conversation, start a connection. But like I said, we had
already pretty much addressed it and really the whole Code Enforcement
was already underway.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But even after this, just other topics.
MR. MERRILL:
Other stuff?
CPL. HOLLIS:
What was your, I guess, general method of communication with Beth?

Phone, text, email?
MR. MERRILL:
Before she was hired?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. MERRILL:
Text and yes, she may have called me a couple of times, but mostly text
messages or maybe an email.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
But not much, I mean, because, I mean there really wasn't anything that
she was telling me that had any value I mean in the sense of how we were
conducting business, so it's not like I had a need to then reach back out
and say, well, you know, tell me more whatever it was. At that point, I
really didn't know that she... well, had been a client of Parsons or anybody
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else that we might be doing business with. I wasn't quite sure exactly why
she was....
CPL. HOLLIS:
When did you find out she was working for Parsons?
MR. MERRILL:
Actually, I didn't find that out until probably just recently. Maybe a couple
months ago I mean on other stuff. Other stuff.
CPL. HOLLIS:
On other stuff.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So you weren't aware if she was under contract with Parsons prior to Go
Hillsborough?
MR. MERRILL:
No. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Where 2010, '11?
MR. MERRILL:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
As a matter of fact, the first time I encountered her then after messages
was when I showed up at Parsons for the first sit down with them after
they had been hired for that initial piece, that 53,000 and she was there,
so what she here for? It was like.... Which is fine. I mean, I didn't care
either way, but it's just.....
CPL. HOLLIS:
How did they introduce Beth?
MR. MERRILL:
I don't even know if they did introduce her.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
I just assumed that she was working for them or with them or.... Because
actually, she hadn't been a subcontractor officially until that later contract.
CPL. HOLLIS:
The November.
MR. MERRILL:
The November one?
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Mm-hmm.
MR. MERRILL:
So actually I don't even know if in that first meeting she had actually been
signed up to do any work on Go Hillsborough.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, if she had been under contract with Parsons, would that have
changed anything as far as the process?
MR. MERRILL:
No. Probably not.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So your first.... When did you first know she was involved with the Go
Hillsborough?
MR. MERRILL:
It would have been... yeah, after that November.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I guess officially.
MR. MERRILL:
Officially.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Officially, to your understanding it'd be November...
MR. MERRILL:
When she's officially.... But before that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Under contract, but had she made the appearance that she was working
for Parsons?
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
When did you know about that?
MR. MERRILL:
It was that first meeting. Probably.... I don't remember the dates, but
maybe September when we.... So Parsons had been given the initial work
order for $53,000, so it would have been shortly after that if we all got
together with Parsons so they could understand what we needed. So it
would have been that meeting that I would have first seen her in that
space.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So back to kind of our timeline of the August 12th meeting, 2014,
when she alluded to.... I pulled up the transcript from that. I just had a few
questions.
MR. MERRILL:
Sure.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
I mean it's obvious before these meetings you plan what you're going to
say. That's not all off the cuff, so your remarks, you know, are well thought
out and stated. How do you normally prepare for a meeting like that?
MR. MERRILL:
Normally.... Well, for that particular meeting, I think that was actually I read
from a prepared script.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. MERRILL:
And normally I don't do that. Normally I'll have notes that I'll talk from or a
PowerPoint, but that was... it was at a point in time where it was kind of a
pivotal time because there was a lot of criticism about the TED effort and
criticism from different areas; some of the media, some like Sharon
Calvert and others. You know, various things. Either, you know, we're not
ready for another tax. We're not.... Or why are you taxing? I mean, just all
kind of things. And I had the sense that maybe the Policy Leadership
Group was getting a little bit concerned, antsy about you know kind of
what, where are we going from here and you know, the criticism was
coming in. So it was really then I felt like I needed to kind of get some
remarks on record that, you know, make it very clear how important this
was and the direction and where we needed to go, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
With that August meeting, what was the previous meeting? When was
that? Do you remember?
MR. MERRILL:
I think they were monthly at that point.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
So would have been maybe July or June.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright. In your state.... Well first, who's Herb Marlow?
MR. MERRILL:
Herb was a consultant facilitator consultant that we hired to facilitate the

meetings; the Policy Leadership Group meetings and he was there from
the beginning of the Policy Leadership Group until.... I think actually that
was the last meeting because at that point then the Policy Leadership
Group directed me to go out and hire someone, so....
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CPL. HOLLIS:
One of the things he says to move forward with the public discussion and
the conversation process. Did you and Herb get together about what you
all were going to discuss?
MR. MERRILL:
Oh, we always did. Yeah. Before every Policy Leadership Group meeting.
We actually had a number of different staff working. We had a
management group, which was myself, the city managers, the CEO of
HART, and then below that we had like a finance group, my CFO, her
counterparts. We had a planning group, so kind of different layers of
technical people underneath us working and everyone of those before
there as a Policy Leadership Group meeting there was always premeetings to plan for the presentation, so it was pretty disciplined.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sounds like it. You mentioned in a statement about community

engagement plan. Can you kind of explain what that plan was at that
time? I mean we're ahead here a year later, but if you could explain at that
time what you meant by the community engagement plan.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. So this goes back to the failure in 2010 to do any kind of serious
outreach to citizen groups, homeowner associations, chambers, rotaries,
anything else in any sort of formal..formal way and we knew we had to do
something like that and so that's when we talk about citizen engagement,
it's really the county reaching out to engage various groups to educate
them about existing transportation system, the needs, how to pay for it,
that kind of stuff.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. In your opening remarks, I didn't see anything about hiring a private
firm. You mentioned that later in your remarks, but Commissioner Murman
is the one who brings up the possibility of doing that.
MR. MERRILL:
Right. I thought it was Hagan is it not?.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, no actually, Commissioner Murman brings it up first.
MR. MERRILL:
Oh, okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And then Commissioner Hagan does.
MR. MERRILL:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Kind of make the motion or kind of.... Because then, we can kind of go
through it, but she mentions something and you say something and Ken
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Hagan kind of piggybacks on your statement and (indiscernible). But I
guess it kind of goes back to one of my first questions of meeting with the
commissioners on a one on one kind of talking over the policy. Was this
done also with the PLG meetings as well?
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. Every... before every meeting, nearly every meeting, I would go

around and visit with all of the Policy Leadership Group members; the
mayors, the chair of HART, before the meetings to get a better sense of
what they wanted, but also to kind of get them ready and you know, one of
the things that nearly everybody brought up was that if we're going to do
this referendum we really needed to do it right. We needed to have a good
public outreach and we needed someone who did it for a living and I
mean, we do a lot of good things and we have good communication, but
public... formal public outreach like that is a real specialty and it kind of
involves public relations. It kind of involves polling; marketing. It's just a
whole bunch of stuff that we don't do. And so we all kind of knew we'd
have to hire someone to help, but we also needed at the same time a
good transportation consultant because in order to do the public outreach,
you had to take something out to them. And what we had at that point
was, as part of the TED process, was virtually just a long list of projects of
all kinds. Sidewalk repairs, road repairs, bridges, buses, but virtually just a
list. That list needed to somehow be put together in a meaningful way that
connected projects that made sure that roads connected with bus lines
and all that kind of stuff. That it was costed, that it was prioritized, and
that's the piece that we really needed a transportation consultant to help
us with. Then we would have a product to take out to the community that
would make more sense.
CPL. HOLLIS:
When you had this meeting going into, with your remarks, was that your
mindset of going forward to try to hire somebody from the private sector or
was it because it was brought up by the commissioners?
MR. MERRILL:
No. I mean, like I said, everybody that I briefed beforehand was pretty
much on the same page, that if we were going to do this we need to do it
right and so that would've included Murman, Hagan, and others.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So those were ones that you did meet with? You said you met with
everybody?
MR. MERRILL:
Everybody. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Was the plan to use the 10 from the General Services Group?
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MR. MERRILL:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
No. So when on the 12th when they decided to actually direct me to move
out and hire somebody, I don't remember if we talked about in the caption
of your minutes, but the time factor, because we.... So backing up from
November of 2016, kind of going backwards, you need at least a year to
run a private campaign in order to sell a tax and so that would have been
November of '15, which is just about where we are now and we needed a
good solid year of doing the transportation engineering, doing the public
outreach, so that kind of put us right on top of where we were in August,
September '14. So if we had chosen then to go out with a whole new
procurement just for this, that would have taken 6 to 10 months. That
clearly wouldn't have worked. We would've never made it to the election in
2016. So that was the concept, not were we going to go to that specific
group. Because I had no idea, nobody had an idea that first of all anybody
that group had the experience, because they had been selected back in
2011. So at that point, my staff took a look at what we had out there in the
way of WORCS contracts. They came up with the recommendation that,
you know, based on the experience of those 10 that had been selected in
2012, that would be a good group to look at.
CPL. HOLLIS:
To look at.
MR. MERRILL:
To look at doing this work and it could be done quickly because it'd
already been vetted and so forth.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Yeah, I didn't see anything about a time crunch, but I know that's
been mentioned.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
As to why the Direct Select of these 10 was used. Who did you consult
with about doing this?
MR. MERRILL:
Doing the Direct Select?
CPL. HOLLIS:
The Direct Select. Selecting from the 10.
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MR. MERRILL:
I didn't consult with anybody. I just turned it over to my staff and said what
options do we have.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And specifically your staff, who are you talking about?
MR. MERRILL:
John Lyons, Lucia.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Was Mike Williams part of that?
MR. MERRILL:
Yes, sorry.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And just kind of... was it shortly after the meeting after being
directed by the board to do something?
MR. MERRILL:
Probably. Yeah. Because we just up against the gun now.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So again, during the August 12th meeting I know they directed you, but
using the 10 was not in your mindset at that time?
MR. MERRILL:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
As far as you knew, you all were going to do the procurement process to
find a firm for that?
MR. MERRILL:
I was hoping that we had someone that we could either piggyback on a

contract or there was some way to legally expedite it, but I mean I didn't
have that particular group in mind.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Was that... when you said you went to your team and they came up
with this, the right plan to use from the 10, was that information shared
with the board?
MR. MERRILL:
No, I wouldn't think so. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Or if in your....
MR. MERRILL:
You mean outside of regular meeting?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. Outside of a regular meeting.
MR. MERRILL:
I doubt it. I doubt it. No.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Would there be a situation where a commissioner would have called you
wanting to meet with you and discussed the Policy Leadership Group
meeting?
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah I'm sure it could've happened. I mean I don't remember anybody

calling me and saying, you know, so what are you going to do?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Would there be an email where you had send out here, these are
the 10 firms we're looking at. Anything like that?
MR. MERRILL:
No. No. Because... so under our procurement rules in order to keep

separation between the board's decision to choose anybody and the staff
work to get that ready, you know, we keep a separation so that, you know,
for a purpose so there's no conflict of interest. There's no influence. That
doesn't mean that, you know, commissioners can't call and ask. But no,
we don't turn any information over to them or anybody. In fact, I think back
then or maybe not. Even now there's a cone of silence that's mandated by
our procurement policies that really prohibit any of those kind of
conversations. I just don't know if it was actually in place back then. But
no, we wouldn't have, we wouldn't have released that to them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. A couple questions. Sorry. Here we go. Some of the messages

again you provided to us between you and Sandy Murman, if you can add
some context to it. There's a text message she sent to you on August the
9th, 2014. That's a Saturday. And... happy Saturday. I hope you found
yesterday productive. I felt it was a great dialog between you and Adam. Is
that Adam Goodman?
MR. MERRILL:
Mm-hmm. Yep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. He's with a public relations firm.
MR. MERRILL:
Victory. Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. He's the smartest guy for what we need and think he will help us get
to the finish line. Sandy. And then you responded, absolutely. I appreciate
you setting it up. Already have good ideas.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is that dealing with the Policy Leadership Group?
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MR. MERRILL:
Mm-hmm. Yeah. So Sandy contacted me, would've been the week before
that and said, you know, I think we should talk to Adam Goodman. He was
involved in the 2010 referendum on the private side. And she disclosed to
me that, you know, he had done work for her, so it wasn't like I was going
into it, you know, not knowing the relationship. But the purpose of setting
up the meeting was that she wanted me to get his thoughts and talking
points on preparing for that August 12th meeting.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
So we went to his office. He really had not been following the TED
initiative, so I kind of had to lay it out for him. He then did give me some
talking points. I used some of them. Discarded others. But he never asked
me for a contract.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
He did say that he wanted to be involved in the process and that would
have been the private process. And I said, well, I can't get involved in the
private process on the charter. I can't set it up. I can't, you know, facilitate
hiring anybody, but that was... when is that? That was August. That was
before Parsons was selected.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, yes. Yeah. Well, that was before even your meeting with the PLG.
MR. MERRILL:
With the Policy Leadership Group. Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And specifically I thought it was interesting that towards the end of the
meeting after you had gotten the approval to move forward, that Al
Higginbotham said not a public relations firm.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So that would've kind of eliminated Mr. Goodman, I would think.
MR. MERRILL:
Right. Exactly.
CPL. HOLLIS:
When was the board aware, I guess, of who was in the selection process
or who was involved in the possible selection?
MR. MERRILL:
Of the companies?
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. MERRILL:
That would have been when John Lyons sent the a memo. No. Yeah.
Because John prepared a memo to the board, I think, saying here's the
process we went through. Here's the firms that we looked at. Here's who
we eliminated. Here's who we're recommending.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, well, you're talking about the Direct Select memo that was issued.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, okay. So even before that. Before Parsons was selected, would
there been a time when the board members would have been aware of
who was in the running?
MR. MERRILL:
No. They shouldn't been.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Had you shared that information with anybody?
MR. MERRILL:
No. Because I didn't....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Outside of your team?
MR. MERRILL:
No. Because I didn't even know it till they were all done vetting and who
they were recommending. I didn't even know who was in the group.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And the reason, and again, you can shed some light on this.
MR. MERRILL:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So the first text was dealing with Adam Goodman. It's the 9th. You have
your meeting on the 12th. And then on August the 13th, there's a message
or Sandy or you sent. Got your message, to Sandy. Got your message.
Thanks for the heads up. I'm talking to Joe Guidry and John Hill. So
there's are editorial?
MR. MERRILL:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
With the respect of papers here locally?
MR. MERRILL:
Correct. Yes.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Liana is sending a media release tomorrow to help clear up
misinformation. I'll set up meetings with Waggoner and Steinman.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I'm getting calls on consultant work and on solution. We'll know more
tomorrow. Do you remember what that message was?
MR. MERRILL:
This was the 13th?
CPL. HOLLIS:
13th, so it's the day after...
MR. MERRILL:
... tomorrow.
CPL. HOLLIS:
The board meeting.
MR. MERRILL:
So I'm guessing that she probably either talked with Guidry or Hill or
somebody and was suggesting that I do the same and I'm just letting her
know I am going to talk with both of them. Liana Lopez is my
communications director. Sending immediate release tomorrow to help
clear up information. Probably to clear up information about what
happened the day before. Probably about the consultants and what that
meant. I'll set meeting. Joe Waggoner is the executive director of
Expressway Authority here and Paul Steinman is the district secretary of
FDOT.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
Set meetings with Waggoner and Steinman. Well, they would've been part
of our working group, so I'm guessing it was just to get them up to speed.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
I'm getting calls on consultants. I assume what it means is that we're

working on coming up with a method on how to select consultants.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Because it's.... So is it safe to say at this point the choosing from
the 10 hasn't been decided yet?
MR. MERRILL:
Correct. Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MR. MERRILL:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Just going back to the August 13th date and then the messages you
provided us from Beth Leytham. There's one dated August 13th as well.
She sends this to you. Have you called both editorial board writers today?
If no, I strongly suggest a call to Hill.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And wait on Guidry if you can so he can clean up after Hill who is still bent
out of shape. It's just best staying out of their sandbox. And you respond,
thanks, Beth. One big sandbox.
MR. MERRILL:
Right. Again, giving me unsolicited advice.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. I mean and this comes at... it looks about 3:30 p.m. This one from
Sandy.... Well, you respond to her at 6:00, so do you remember when she
left a message?
MR. MERRILL:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Would it have been before this one from Beth do you know?
MR. MERRILL:
I don't know
CPL. HOLLIS:
It's just interesting their sharing the same information. Now I know it's
been well documented that Mr. Murman and Beth Leytham have a
relationship.
MR. MERRILL:
Sure. Sure. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
They had been discussing that.
MR. MERRILL:
I mean Beth was kind of a... don't know what the right term is, but she just
talked to everybody, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
I mean it, you know, I didn't really connect anything there. I mean, it's....
But it didn't really didn't matter because I was already planning to talk to
editorial boards anyway.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So then we get to the one from the 15th, August the 15th from Sandy.
Hi, Mike. I read the editorial and I think it was very disappointing. There
was a great deal of anger and criticism of us. This is a critical time. You
need to get the transportation consultant on board and get the
communications team in place ASAP. There should be no press releases,
etcetera, till we get that done. The Scully guy is not our expert as he was
brought in for P3 and did not see a great result. I believe Parsons
Brinckerhoff, AECOM, or any other will get the result we need. We do not
have the expertise to do this on our own no matter how good our
intentions are. My thoughts. Sandy.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And you responded about 15 minutes later. I reached out to John Hill, but
he didn't engage before he wrote the editorial. I'm not sure it would have
mattered. We will put a strong team together quickly.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So in regards to... obviously her comments, not happy with the editorial.
Now she mentions the Scully guy, talking about John Scully. How is she
aware that he was involved?
MR. MERRILL:
He had been hired as the county's P3 consultant Public Partnership

consultant.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
Larry Scully. And so he was already doing work for us on the construction
of the new Emergency Operation Center and I think there was another
project he was working on as our outside expert on Public-Private
Partnerships.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
And so he.... So what she's saying is in her opinion, her experience with
him, he's not the right guy to be the consultant that the PLG asked me to
get, which was true, but you know I don't know that I ever said he was. But
he was helpful to us and to John Lyons and his team in reviewing and
vetting that group of 10.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But for her to mention that here would seem that she would have
some kind of knowledge that he was either hired to select for the Go
Hillsborough project. It's just interesting she's throwing that name out
there or....
MR. MERRILL:
No. I think it's just because she.... I mean I may have said he could be
helpful to us and she was saying no, I don't think so. But no. At that point,
Scully would not have been engaged by us to help that...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Well, this is August 15th, so this is only 3 days after the board.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Now the fact she mentions Parsons and AECOM, I mean obviously she's
going to have to answer to what she was meaning since she's the one that
wrote it.
MR. MERRILL:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But just trying to get your thoughts on the context if you can remember.
MR. MERRILL:
No. I mean, I don't recall her either, you know, suggesting that one firm get
hired or another or.... I mean, I never felt pressured by anybody to hire any
particular firm. I guess that's the bottom line.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. MERRILL:
Not by her. Not by any PLG member. Not by Beth Leytham. Not by
anybody. So, you know, it's.... She may have put a text message. Others
may have said, you know, think about this firm or that firm. They're really
good. But you know, that's not illegal. It's not unethical. It's not lobbying. I
mean, it's like I told Joe the reporter called me last week, I guess it was
Salinero. He said well, why did you talk to Adam Goodman? I said well,
because when my bosses ask me to talk to someone I talk to them. It
doesn't mean they get business. I mean, people talk to me all the time.
They send me people who want to do insurance business or you know,
other.... It doesn't mean they get the business. It just means the
commissioners actually doing the right thing because that's the way the
process should work. They should be sending anybody to me who wants
to do business with the county because that's how the charter separates
the two functions. We do the staff work, administrative work. We make the
recommendation to the board. That way it's nice and clean. We have
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procurement rules and.... So actually, that would be the proper way to do
it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Had Parsons done any work with the county before that you were
aware of? The fact that she mentions Parsons. I mean, I know she's
aware of the 10. But do you know if they've done any work with the county
before?
MR. MERRILL:
I'm sure they have over the years. I mean, they could have done work in
transportation. I mean, they're just a big engineering firm. It could have
been Public Utilities. I don't know personally, but I would bet yeah, they did
work.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. In reference to the team that was, I guess, formed to decide. When
was that team formed?
MR. MERRILL:
I don't know specifically, but it would've been probably shortly after that.
Probably in the beginning of September.
CPL. HOLLIS:
If it was late August, is that...would that be accurate? If there was

communication with the firms that are kind of narrowed down in later
August then that's okay.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. Could have been.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And from what I understand, John Lyons, Mike Williams, Larry Scully; is
that the team that ultimately was in the discussion?
MR. MERRILL:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. What was your involvement?
MR. MERRILL:
None.
CPL. HOLLIS:
None at all?
MR. MERRILL:
Nope.
CPL. HOLLIS:
How would you track their progress? I mean, they're essentially working
for you.
MR. MERRILL:
Right. So Mike and John report to Lucia.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
That's my chief administrator over Infrastructure. So she would've been

the one... excuse me... who would've been overseeing their activities...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
As their supervisor.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
So they would have been... once they completed their review and once
that group had finished their analysis, probably prior to John running his
Direct Select memo or at the same time, would have brought it to me to
say here's what we did, here's what we found, here's what we're
recommending.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So would ultimately you have the final say then who was selected
based on their recommendations?
MR. MERRILL:
Nope. The board would.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, I mean....
MR. MERRILL:
Or John would. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, because it's the Direct Select, so you're choosing from them and I
know the board does because he makes the presentation on October.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But as far as here's the list. We've narrowed it down to this. Here's your
choices.
MR. MERRILL:
Well, I mean I could have.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
So I mean, yeah, I mean I have the authority to say, to ask them questions
and say well, why'd you pick those three and you know, what about this
firm, but I mean unless there's something obvious that I'm aware of that
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they might not be aware of, I rely on them. They're the experts and the
county attorney would have already at that point signed off on the process.
And so at that point, it would've been here is what we did, here's who we
think can do the best work, and that would've been it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did Lucia get with you and kind of share with you how the progress
was going? Were you getting updates on everything?
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. On the progress. Yeah. But on the actual selection process. Not on
who was....
CPL. HOLLIS:
So you weren't aware of how they were selecting it?
MR. MERRILL:
I was aware of how they were selecting it. I didn't know at any point in time
who the three or four were or whether the three were being ranked. So I
only would have known that at the end.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. So they would've come to me and said we have a WORCS contract

that was done in 2012. We have 10 firms that were selected and we're
going through all 10 firms with Larry Scully's help to try and determine
which of those 10 firms have the best expertise and here's the selection
committee that we set up and then we'll get back to you and let you know
what we found.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And who gave you that information?
MR. MERRILL:
Probably Lucia.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And again, I know we're talking a year or so ago.
MR. MERRILL:
No, that would've been the normal course.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Were there parameters or instructions given to this team of how to do

business?
MR. MERRILL:
No
CPL. HOLLIS:
Or you left it up to them?
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MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. Because it's a pretty standard process across all of the procurement
and you know, it's really up to the procurement director and the County
Attorney's Office to advise them on whether they're following the
procurement policy or whether they need to do something different. So I
wouldn't have been able to direct them anyway.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Are you aware...? Well, I mean you could because you're their boss.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But you didn't?
MR. MERRILL:
I did not. Correct. Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Are there any, I guess, any formal meetings that there would have been
any kind of documentation?
MR. MERRILL:
With that group?
CPL. HOLLIS:
With this group. Yes.
MR. MERRILL:
The only formal meeting would've been the one where they showed up
and said here's... we finished our work and here's what we're
recommending and they would have showed up with his Direct Select
memo.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
So before that.. no.. it would've been.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And you think it was formed, probably late August is probably when
the team was formed?
MR. MERRILL:
Probably.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Just based on looking at the firms they've contacted and having that
documentation that we have.
MR. MERRILL:
Because I think... and I remember. I think we went back to the Policy

Leadership Group in September with....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, October is when Parsons does the....
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MR. MERRILL:
October. That's right. October.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
MR. MERRILL:
So that meant that at least by the beginning of September they would've

had to been pretty far underway because then, you know, once they
selected or recommended or selected the firm, they had to do a scope
that had to be done before Parsons showed up at the October meeting.
So they were probably moving pretty quickly at that point.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And obviously when we talked to John and Mike, we kind of see their
process because you saying you were not involved in that process?
MR. MERRILL:
Correct. Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Mike Williams was interviewed. We haven't talked to him yet, but I'm sure
you're aware there's an outside agency doing an audit to look at that.
MR. MERRILL:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Hired by our office. Mr. Williams was interviewed and mentioned that
during the process, they actually presented two names to you; the HNTB
and Parsons and that you were the one that decided to go with Parsons.
MR. MERRILL:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is that accurate.
MR. MERRILL:
I don't remember that. No. I don't recall it. At the end of the process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. MERRILL:
Yes. Not during the process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No, no, no. No, not during the process. Like at the end after they had
done. They boil it down from 10 to 4 to these two.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you know why...? So I asked that question, but so Mike Williams said
that they presented you with their two firms that are equal. Flip a coin and
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that you're the one that went with Parsons. Do you know why you chose
Parsons over HNTB?
MR. MERRILL:
HNTB as I recall.... I'd have to look at the Direct Select memo. There was
something about their work that was either prior work or something about
their experience that wasn't quite what it needed to be.
CPL. HOLLIS:
They were part of the Go Pinellas or Greenlight Pinellas.
MR. MERRILL:
Right. That was it. Right. Right. So they said these are the two best
qualified. HNTB was... did the Go Hillsborough thing. We don't think we
should use them. I said yeah. Fine. I agree.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
You know.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Now the other two. HDR?
MR. MERRILL:
HDR had... there was some other reason why they were... they had an
issue. I can't remember what it was.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, then what we've heard and what was even brought out and I guess
the last Policy Leadership Group meeting from September. Yeah,
September 7th. Scott Stromer brought it out that there was a time, they
didn't respond in time.
MR. MERRILL:
Exactly. Correct. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And we're still waiting on some documentation on that. Because in

looking, and again, you weren't... you said you weren't part of that process
until the very end when they presented the names, so how they whittled it
down from 10 to 4 to those two. Are you aware of how they did that?
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. Because the Policy Leadership Group, well all of us wanted

someone who first and foremost had experience and successful
referendums in consulting and successful transportation referendums.
That was the primary criteria and then the second would have been, you
know, just solid transportation engineering experience. But we wanted
someone who actually had done this before in the referendum situation
because that's different than just doing traditional engineering.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
With HDR they were within the top 10. What are you aware of them as far
as their prior work with the county? Was there...?
MR. MERRILL:
Well, I know they've done work for the county, but I'm not really aware of
what specific work they did, so I'm not..
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, specifically with the water reservoir; the cracks in the....
MR. MERRILL:
Well, that was actually Tampa Bay Water.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
So, but yeah. That was well known that they were the engineer and I think
they actually were sued and settled.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah, from what I understand the judge came back and found no fault with
HDR.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But what was interesting is that Sandy's text with you which is highlighted
here August 22nd. So this is when the process had begun.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because actually Parsons Brinckerhoff is sending a letter to Larry Scully

outlining kind of their qualifications on this same date. But anyway, so
Sandy sends Mike, I am asking you not to pick HDR. It was awful and
almost criminal what they did at Tampa Bay Water, the reservoir. My
thoughts. Sandy. Now you don't respond.
MR. MERRILL:
No. I mean, she takes no bones about publicly saying don't hire HDR to
do any more work with the county. I mean, she'll say that at board
meetings. She was on the board of Tampa Bay Water during that whole
reservoir thing, but I mean, no. That doesn't influence us because actually
that's a whole different discipline within HDR, you know the water
consultant is not the transportation consultants.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But it's the same company.
MR. MERRILL:
Oh, yeah. Same company. Yeah.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. So with this information, what did you do with that information?
MR. MERRILL:
Nothing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did it influence...? Did you share this information with John Lyons or
Mike Williams?
MR. MERRILL:
I didn't have to. They would've known it because she's been very public
about her opposition to HDR.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Well, do you feel that her opposition would have played a part in not
including them?
MR. MERRILL:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
The issues been made that there's a time constraint issue with them not
filling out proper paperwork or what have you. I don't have it in front of me
confirmed. I always like to have the paperwork.
MR. MERRILL:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I do have Parsons', which according to their letter they spoke to Larry

Scully the day before and then the day following is when they presented
this letter. I talked to the head person over there at HDR who was Matt
Ryan and he was unaware of any time constraint issues and in fact had
talked to Larry Scully he believed on a Monday, the 25th of August, and
sent a letter outlining their qualifications on the 26th of August. So there
doesn't seem to be any kind of time issue there. So just wondering why
they weren't included in the factor, if in fact because of their past work,
that's why they weren't included.
MR. MERRILL:
No. What they had told me was that there was a deficiency somewhere in
their response and I don't remember exactly when it was, but that was the
reason they gave. I mean, like I say, it would almost be the opposite
because knowing that a particular commissioner has made public her
unhappiness with a particular consultant, we probably would have gone
the other direction to be sure that there wasn't any our jury kind of
exclusion, but yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And you're saying this text had no influence. Did any commissioners
try to influence your decision as to who to choose for this Go Hillsborough
contract?
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MR. MERRILL:
No. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did they tell you who not to choose?
MR. MERRILL:
No. I mean other than....
CPL. HOLLIS:
And obviously she does.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
She made it well known, but again the names that were presented to you
was HNTB and Parsons.
MR. MERRILL:
Parsons. Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because of HNTB's Pinellas County efforts.
MR. MERRILL:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You felt it best to go with Parsons.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And I know the board is the one that ultimately approved it, but if
you're presenting.... They direct you to go pick somebody. This is who you
picked.
MR. MERRILL:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And they affirm that.
MR. MERRILL:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Are there ever decisions you make as the administrator that are
influenced by the commissioners?
MR. MERRILL:
Not in a sense that I think you're asking it. I mean, they have a lot of
influence over how I look at things because I mean part of my job is to get
things done and part of that is knowing that if I'm going to bring something
to them, that we've done the work and that they're not just going to reject it
out of hand.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. MERRILL:
So in that sense, I try to, you know, kind of get an understanding of where
they are individually, but no they.... I can say that in 5 years, there hasn't
been a single issue where a commissioner has influenced me in the sense
that, you know, you must do this. If you don't do this, you know, something
bad will happen or anything like that. That's never happened.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Because they in essence renew your contracts, there's never been
a situation you felt that would have hampered that effort if you didn't go a
certain way?
MR. MERRILL:
There was only one time and that was.... But it didn't have to do with the
firm. It was our... what we call voluntary benefits, which is like if somebody
wants to buy extra life insurance or pet insurance or something like that.
We piggybacked on a city of Tampa contract with a firm the board
approved piggybacking to use a company to do our voluntary benefits.
The voluntary benefits company wanted to get complete access to the
employee information; like where they live, their phone numbers, Social
Security numbers; all that kind of stuff, because they said that it would,
you know, help them better serve our employees. Which I don't doubt that
it would've. But I said I will resign before I turn that information over to
anybody not just this company because it's personal information. This is
voluntary benefits. That means the employee gets to decide and if they
want to get it, they can give that information. That's the only time I ever
really pushed back, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And I know this text from Beth Leytham, which is brought out during
the whole thing with Noah Pransky.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So if you can just could kind of shed some light and context to it.
MR. MERRILL:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Obviously, she's mentioning Adam who you met with.
MR. MERRILL:
Mm-hmm.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Ashley Walker. But anyway, Beth Leytham writes to you, I've spoken with
Ken and Sandy reference transpo and communications. So just based on
the environment during this time frame, we're assuming this is the Go
Hillsborough PLG.
MR. MERRILL:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is that your understanding?
MR. MERRILL:
Correct. Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And then Mercury's Ashley Walker.
MR. MERRILL:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Two-time Obama in Florida organizer and Adam is republican

operative/political TV guy. So we're talking about the same Adam that you
met with?
MR. MERRILL:
That's correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And Ashley Walker. How would she have...? I don't know. And I guess in
speaking with Ken and Sandy and Sandy had set up that meeting with you
and Adam.
MR. MERRILL:
With Adam. Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So she's expressing, which apparently she expressed to Ken and Sandy.

Expressed my real concern that all our political people firms and county
may not use public dollars and even if you say something otherwise, it
starts everything off on yet another bad foot.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
That is why transpo expert comes in with communications team in tow

funded by county and after engagement, hands off to political team in
2016 funded by private sector. Also, going into procurement issues too
because just... and in with city or AECOM cost 1.2 mil.
MR. MERRILL:
Right. Right. So, I mean, again, more unsolicited advice. I mean it was
clear to me that when the PLG said go hire someone they didn't want a
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political person. They didn't want a public relations person. So I got that. I
didn't really need her to tell me that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
MR. MERRILL:
Mercury was only interested in the private campaign, when that would
occur as was Adam at Victory anyway, so it really was kind of irrelevant to
the whole conversation.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
You know.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Later on, about a month later, September 19th, she texts you. Mayor on
agrees with county perspective. Do you know which mayor she's talking
about?
MR. MERRILL:
Buckhorn.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Buckhorn?
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And you say great. Thanks. Do you want she's talking about? The county
perspective?
MR. MERRILL:
Probably. I don't know. It was September 19th?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Mm-hmm.
MR. MERRILL:
County perspective. I don't know. Could've been anything. I don't

remember September 19th.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What is your understanding of her relationship with the mayor?
MR. MERRILL:
Well, again, you know, no secret that she had worked for him on
campaigns and so forth, so yeah. I mean I knew that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And there's a number of texts I'd like to get some context from you. But
before this whole process that's happened, anything that you would've
done differently?
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MR. MERRILL:
I wouldn't have started it in the first place. (laughing) I'm just kidding. No, it
had to be done. No. I mean hindsight's 20/20.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. MERRILL:
I mean, it was clear that we needed outside help. You know, I just didn't
have the guns and the resources internally to do it. I mean I think the
process we went through was a good process. The Direct Select; no
problem with that. I think John and his folks did everything by the book.
We were advised by the county attorney. I don't think that's an issue. And,
you know, the way that we have consistently dealt with prior contractors is
that they get to choose their subcontractors. We don't intervene in that
process because we hold the prime contractor responsible. So if Parsons
for whatever reason decided they wanted to hire Beth Leytham, I mean
unless we knew she was had some other issues, you know, either
debarment or whatever, we wouldn't have intervened. And so in that
sense, I don't think there's anything different that we would've done, I
would've done, that we would've done.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Obviously, if she wasn't I guess in the picture probably things wouldn't

have blown up as they did because there.... She seems to be kind of the
catalyst of because of her relationships with commissioners and the
mayor and that sort of thing. It seems like she's kind of the focal point. At
least with the investigation that was done by 10 News and other people
that have made complaints.
MR. MERRILL:
Well, no, I know what you're saying and I thought a lot about that. So to
answer your question, yeah, I kind of played this over in my head, you
know, a million times would I have done something different. I mean I think
and actually, I was talking to Sandy about this yesterday. We're talking
about going forward and I said I don't think it really matters who would've
been either the transportation consultant or the communication consultant
because you had a core group of people that from the beginning were just
bent on tearing this down either because they don't like Mayor Buckhorn
or because they don't like taxes or because they don't like rail and we
knew who those people were from the beginning and they showed their
colors pretty consistently throughout and they still do. I think what made it
easier for them maybe was Beth's style, but Beth's style is also what
helped to really move this thing forward. So it's kind of a two-edge sword. I
mean, she's very aggressive. She's very direct. She's very, you know,
flamboyant and... but she's good. I mean, she did a very good job for us. I
mean professionally, you know, in retrospect if I had to choose someone,
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myself for this I probably would have chose her. But you know because of
that style, you know, and because I think of her, you know, connection with
the mayor and the folks that don't like the mayor, it just maybe made it an
easier target maybe. But I mean she wasn't the only communications
consultant that Parsons hired. They also hired Chapel Roberts. Now they
were focused more on the social media, so not out as front... not as much
out the front as Beth, but I still think if it had been someone else we would
still be in this same spot.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Had there been a time that she represented,outwardly represented

Parsons before the Go Hillsborough project?
MR. MERRILL:
Later, I asked Bob Clifford that about a month ago and he said that....
What I actually asked him was had they hired her in similar kinds of
engagements for other cities and he said no, but that she had done work
for the firm for Parsons as a communication consultant. But that was the
first time that I ever asked or knew that she had any prior, you know, kind
of....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Had she ever approached you on behalf of Parsons prior to Go

Hillsborough?
MR. MERRILL:
No. She never did.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
So I got all these mysterious text messages.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
MR. MERRILL:
And a couple phone calls, but no, she never said, you know, hey, hire me.
Hire Parsons. So that I know for sure. I mean, because it's not the way
she works. So I mean going back to your earlier question, you know, like
these things, I think the first time we met, you know, I said to you.... You
asked me why are you getting all these text messages from her? And I
was like I don't know her. It's like what the hell's going on? Now I
understand why. That's the way she works. That's the way that she
chooses to get business by, you know, developing relationships by being
helpful. By... you know, and that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that or
illegal as long as the person on the other end, me, or anybody else,
doesn't enact on it in a way that is unethical or illegal. But she never said,
hire me. Hire Parsons. Never.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
The hiring of Parsons, was that ever influenced by Beth Leytham?
MR. MERRILL:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You mentioned ethical, because you mentioned it in the letter to the

Sheriff, are you concerned with any ethical issues?
MR. MERRILL:
I'm not aware of any.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
Certainly by me or any of my staff or commissioners. But it's been alleged,

even if indirectly, by some and so I think that.... So after Peggy did her
work when she was in the Clerk's Office, after Chip looked at it
independently, I was convinced that just from a state law process policy
point of view, we did everything by the book. So the only piece that I
wouldn't have known or been able to know is whether on the other side of
this thing there was some influence to hire Beth, for Parsons to hire Beth
because we knew how we selected Parsons without any influence. But all
of the criticism was about Beth. See that's really where the problem was. It
wasn't so much about Parsons. I mean there were people who didn't like
Parsons, but that wasn't the issue. It was all about Beth. So to me it was
we need to establish once and for all whether there was that connection
from an ethical point of view and did someone influence Parsons to hire
Beth? That's the thing that I felt like had not ever been addressed by any
auditor and that's the piece we needed to tie up.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But if she was already under contract with Parsons as a consultant, but
then officially as a subcontractor in November, would that have any
bearing on it?
MR. MERRILL:
Well, probably. Well, it could, but not necessarily. So for example, if they
had hired... Parsons had hired her to advise them on how best to position
Parsons as a firm in the consulting world, that skill and advice might not
necessarily be the same skill and advice they would want for this project.
So I mean, well, it's like anything. When you work with someone and you
get to know them, if all things being equal, you'd rather go with the person
that you worked with.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
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MR. MERRILL:
So assuming that to be the case, they still would have chosen the best
person for this project because ultimately they're the ones responsible for
the deliverable.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
So if they didn't really think that Beth was the best one to deliver this, they
wouldn't have hired her. And it's a good firm. They're... you know, good
reputation.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright, sir. I'm going to see if they have any questions for you if that's
alright.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
DET. CLARK:
I'll work backwards from Laythem we just kind of characterize her

behavior. At one point you said looking on back on things you would've still
hired because of her skill set or whatever. What were you basing that on?
What would you have based that on?
MR. MERRILL:
Well, we all as group spend a lot of time together over the last, since
January on this project. I mean, I went to virtually all of the public outreach
meetings. I went to all the meetings, staff meetings we had at Parsons,
which were weekly back then. And, you know, she was calling me during
that period and strategizing. So I mean, I chose from the beginning of this
to be personally involved in the process of Go Hillsborough. I didn't
delegate that to someone because it was too important and so as a result
of that, you know, I was there on the front line dealing, you know, Bob
Clifford, George Walton, Beth Leytham, and anybody else that was. So I
really got to see her work first hand and really not having had any
involvement with her before, I didn't have anything to base it on. But I
respect what she does. She's very good and she really did good work for
us, so....
DET. CLARK:
Okay. And my other question, still with the Leytham Group or Beth
Leytham, in open source or media, particularly the report done by 10
News, she referred to her behavior as one public constituent, not as a
lobbyist or not as one under contract to make these relationships.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
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DET. CLARK:
And to be open with that. Her involvement with you with the text or with
anyone else that you've seen, would you characterize that as a personal
or a constituent type of communication or would that be more consistent
with someone who is positioning or lobbying or a professional stance as
not Beth Leytham, the constituent, but Beth Leytham, the....
MR. MERRILL:
Lobbyist?
DET. CLARK:
Lobbyist.
MR. MERRILL:
That's a good question.
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir.
MR. MERRILL:
That's the one that's kind of got everyone befuddled here.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MR. MERRILL:
Because depending who you ask, yeah, she was a lobbyist. So I think it's
kind of a clever positioning on her part because to be a lobbyist means
that you have declared that you are getting some sort of compensation to
deliver an outcome for a client. So there are professional lobbyists who
were former state legislators and they show up here from time to time and
it's very clear. You know, I'm here representing X, Y, Z Company. Here's
what they do. We think the county would benefit from it. Absolutely clear
they're being paid by that company. And then you have constituents. Like
I'll give you another example. A couple of professors at USF come up with
this product to help stop beach erosion. They actually designed this thing
they call... I don't know what they call it. You put it in the water and then it
does that. They went to see a commissioner or commissioners and said,
you know, we're just a couple of professors. We think the county would,
you know.... So they didn't really have a company per se. Were they
lobbyists? Were they constituents? It could go either way. The way that
she kind of goes about things, like you can see them in.... I would
probably say she's not a lobbyist based on that because she never says
I'm representing anybody other than myself. I'm certainly not being paid by
anybody to get business with the county. But I could put my other hat on
and read that and say well, you know, clearly she's angling towards
something here that is going to result in a decision to hire somebody. The
only thing I don't know is who. I mean, so it could have been HDR, it could
have been HNTB. It could have been anybody at that point because she
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never said Parsons. But obviously, you can tell there was... she wanted
some part of this, so....
DET. CLARK:
In going back with that with those parameters that you set up that if she
would have self identified herself as a lobbyist...
MR. MERRILL:
Yes.
DET. CLARK:
Rather than her behavior identifying herself as a lobbyist, in hindsight

would say that this behavior, if it was... looking back if you're under
contract to make associations with public officials, make contact, attend
meetings, not disclose that you're being paid to do that.
MR. MERRILL:
Right. That would have been a problem.
DET. CLARK:
That would have been a problem. Now saying that that would have been a
problem, how would that have changed the context? For example, a text
to you or a text to a... or a conversation with anyone in the county? How
that would have put....
MR. MERRILL:
That would have changed it. Yeah.
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir.
MR. MERRILL:
Because then I go back to the example of the guy who's clearly a lobbyist
and he's.... So for her to what you just described, she would have had to
say I'm here representing Parsons, for example.
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir.
MR. MERRILL:
And we know the county wants to hire a consultant and I'm here to help
Parsons get that business. I mean, in so many words. So that would have
clearly been a much different situation because we knew that we were in
the process of doing the Direct Select and would have been subject to, if
not a cone of silence, at least not ex parte, you know, kind of discussion.
So that would have been a much different situation and the response
would have been, you know, we're in a procurement. Can't really deal with
you. You know, please stop sending me text messages.
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir.
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MR. MERRILL:
But it never was that clear. You know, that's why I say it's kind of clever in
a way. She never actually says she representing anybody. She's not really
asking for any business. She's being helpful and she's being informative
and.... So, yeah. To your point, it would've made a big difference had she
approached it differently.
DET. CLARK:
Yes. And we talk about clever and positioning, the other thing too is
providing, being helpful and her services are expensive that we would say
and if she's providing a helpful service or a product or talking points, this is
all open source. She said that she's done that for other people involved;
for example, the mayor and so forth and so on that she just provided this
service and it became an issue then. When someone normally charges for
a service; however, they give that service to public persons and or entities.
Should that have, in hindsight, drawn a flag that someone is giving
services, particularly one who is so involved in the process that it's going
to involve a penny or half penny tax that's going to generate a lot of
money that this person is obviously positioning.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
DET. CLARK:
You know, how would you respond to that?
MR. MERRILL:
No. Your point well taken. That's why I tried to keep some distance and
not really knowing exactly how it was going to play out in the end.
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir.
MR. MERRILL:
But in that sense, she's really no different than anybody else who calls me
up and says, well you know, I have some information about such and such
that might be helpful to you, and I know the person is a lawyer or, you
know, someone influential, but all they're saying is well, did you know
that.... I mean, I had no basis to then say well, I can't talk to you. I mean,
because they're not announcing themselves as representing anybody. I
mean, so it's kind of a gray area and just takes judgment where when
draw the line and when you don't draw the line. But, you know, and part of
it is, you know, when it's coming from my bosses. I mean, where do I draw
the line? I mean, where I draw the line is if a commissioner says I'm telling
you to talk to this person and you really need to seriously consider hiring
them or doing something and it's said in a way that, you know, I get the
message that this could have serious consequences for me. That's where
I would draw the line. But I mean everyday, or not everyday, but every
week a commissioner will send somebody to me and I... you know. This
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was kind of in the same vein. I mean, so I'm not naive. I mean know that
Beth wasn't just doing this for, you know, the good of mankind, but there
was nothing there on the face of it that gave me pause to say well, I'm just
going to stop talking to you.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So you didn't know who she was representing if she was representing
someone.
MR. MERRILL:
I had no idea. And so I tried to keep as much distance as I could and, you
know, like I said, the first time I had then saw her was that first meeting at
Parsons and was surprised to see her there. I think Chip Fletcher was with
me and we both kind of looked at each other like, okay, well.... What's
going on? But again, it wasn't anything out of the ordinary. I mean, I guess
in a certain sense, but....
DET. CLARK:
And my last question would be as to your response, is there any policy or

training or SOP or anything like that which, or a memo, because you
mentioned memorandums, that would have or could have protected the
process or the, you know, the county or the perception of anything here?Is
there any policy that you can think of or if not, if you can't think of one off
of recall to say that... is there something out there that says that a person
comes to you must, like a disclaimer. They must identify themselves
correctly.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
DET. CLARK:
You know, when they're coming to you for public business.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. So that's something that's been subject of a lot of discussion. Sandy

Murman brought an agenda item to the board on lobbying.
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir.
MR. MERRILL:
So the answer is that a number of years ago, I guess, I don't remember if

it was county administrator or if it was county attorney, there must have
been a state law change requiring lobbyists to sign a book saying that
they were here to lobby either a commissioner or the county administrator
and it stopped at the county administrator level. No, actually the
Department of Director level. And the, sort of the education or the protocol
at that time from the county attorney was that staff, directors, county
administrator are not responsible for telling someone that they're lobbyists
or asking if they're a lobbyist or being a lobbying police. Basically, what we
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had to do was let them know... and actually our business covers at that
time had on reverse side had printed the excerpt from the lobbying
ordinance. The only thing we had to do if someone was coming to visit us
was to let them know that A; there was a book in the lobby if they were
lobbyists, they have to sign the book.
DET. CLARK:
Right.
MR. MERRILL:
But it wasn't our responsibility to say well, are you a lobbyist? Have you
registered? And then secondly, to let them know that there was a
pamphlet with the book that if they didn't know or they were confused that
they should read the pamphlet. But that's where it stopped. And it's been
that way for years and years and years. So it's not even our responsibility
to go and check to follow-up afterwards to look at the book to see if you
signed it. That's what then Sandy brought up as something needed to be
changed; needed to be changed in our ordinance to make it more formal
that lobbyists had to go through training, they had to register, every year,
they had to go through certification. That kind of stuff. But still in all of that
recent discussion, what I just described hasn't changed. I'm still not the
lobbying police. It's not my job to tell someone to do anything. That's the
weakness in the system, but it's a weakness that you really can't do
anything about because it's really more of an after the fact thing. I mean
so even with the new ordinance, if someone doesn't register, if someone
doesn't get certified, no one really knows until something happens and
then they go, oh. You've been lobbying. You didn't register. No one here's
an enforcer, so I don't.... To long answer your question, I don't think there's
anything then or now that would have changed that because it still would
have been Beth Leytham's responsibility to know that she's a lobbyist, to
register, and to do whatever she needed to do and no one was going to
enforce that because it wasn't our job to enforce it. I don't know if that
answers your question.
DET. CLARK:
Partially. It's just when it comes to a question if someone's talking about

something that's before the board or on a public initiative or public, once
that person goes into that type of talk then how are we going to preserve
that communication whether it's a text, phone call.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
DET. CLARK:
Or any other type of method that a lobbyist may use to defeat Sunshine,
which is defined... is purposely designed never to be defeated by
technology or by evasion.
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MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
DET. CLARK:
But once someone has a conversation, then it becomes they know if this
person is doing it; X, Y, and Z. Then not the police, the lobbyists, but then
to make sure that that conversation then becomes preserved for public
scrutiny.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
DET. CLARK:
And that's one of the issues right now that's in the public is that these gray
areas have not been quickly put into the Sunshine.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
DET. CLARK:
As the law intends.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. No, I agree.
DET. CLARK:
I mean, if we're looking at it that way. That's what I'm saying it's, you know,
not about anybody policing them. It's about preserving the best....
MR. MERRILL:
The best process
DET. CLARK:
You have been the best at it so far. So we're not....
MR. MERRILL:
No, I now.
DET. CLARK:
But what I'm saying is that the whole issue is to preserve Sunshine.
MR. MERRILL:
Right. Right.
DET. CLARK:
That's the whole intent of over a hundred years in Florida.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. No, and you're absolutely right because even, you know I
mentioned the cone of silence, so our procurement policy says that once a
RFP is issued, from that point until the Board of County Commissioners
actually chooses someone, there's a cone of silence. Which means that
none of the proposers can talk to the board or to me. The only one.... Or
the county attorney. They can only talk to the procurement director. So
then the word talk becomes kind of the slippery slope here, because if
there's no email, which gets captured in our system, if there's no text
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message that someone's archiving, then there's... if they're not archiving,
there's no way to really know because phone conversations aren't public
record or personal conversations, so they're.... Your absolutely right. I
mean, there's still this gray area where any of that can happen.
DET. CLARK:
And but there also is let's say if someone has a conversation outside; two
elected officials on the board have a discussion at Publix. You know, they
run into each other in vegetable aisle.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
DET. CLARK:
But then they talk about county business.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
DET. CLARK:
Under that, they're subject to... that conversation is to make that a record
within a certain amount of days.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
DET. CLARK:
So even though it's not captured by technology, it's to be captured the way
it was 100 years ago by writing.
MR. MERRILL:
That's right. And if it's a conversation about a pending decision, that's what
they have to do.
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
DET. CLARK:
That's all of mine.
CPL. HOLLIS:
To piggyback off his question; has there been instruction on how the
commissioners are supposed to do that?
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. So the commissioners when they're first elected I think; I don't know
if they do it every year, have to go through ethics training that's put on by
League of Women Voters or somebody. And part of that would be what
we're talking about here. What is a Sunshine violation? How do you do it
as he just described?
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DET. CLARK:
Yes. And then the day that they're sworn in, they're
actually to be held to that standard.
MR. MERRILL:
That's correct.
DET. CLARK:
Okay. So who did you say was... who's responsible for training them up on
that? You said Legal?
MR. MERRILL:
It my be the National Association of Counties. There's actually, there's

actually a formal program that they have to go through and it's hosted by
somebody. It's either NACO, the National Association of Counties or
League of Women Voters. But yeah, they have to go through that.
DET. CLARK:
That's all my questions. Thank you, sir.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sam?
DET. PORTALATIN:
Yeah, my questions are basically about the registry form that they have to
fill out in the lobby when they come in. Do you know, do you have any
knowledge of whether or not that's checked before they actually enter in
for a meeting, for being completed?
MR. MERRILL:
Probably not.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Legend? Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
Probably not.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
Because that would mean that me or the receptionist or my aide or my

assistant would have to actually go out and do it and we don't.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Okay. I just have one other question.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
DET. PORTALATIN:
My other question will be calendar.
MR. MERRILL:
Yes.
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DET. PORTALATIN:
Daily activity and so forth. Is that scanned and preserved?
MR. MERRILL:
Yes. It's part of the email system, the Outlook system.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
So that's also captured up by IT. So anything that goes through, anything

that goes through out system gets captured.
DET. PORTALATIN:
So that's a digital calendar instead of a handwritten calendar? Because

I've seen some where the, I guess they microfiche or whatever the
handwritten calendar.
MR. MERRILL:
But, yeah. Because even handwritten calendars, if one uses one, they're
supposed to....
DET. PORTALATIN:
Pdf it.
MR. MERRILL:
Pdf it. So....
CPL. HOLLIS:
On a couple of the text messages that we received from you, there's no

dates, but there's some from Beth Leytham. Just based on the context if
your looking at it, it appears to be after the contract has been completed.
MR. MERRILL:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Who is Ed?
MR. MERRILL:
Turanchik?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Turanchik?
MR. MERRILL:
Ed is a former county commissioner who now he is in legal practice. He

is...he was involved in the 2010 referendum.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. That puts... yeah, light into the....
MR. MERRILL:
He's also the lawyer who represents the company that wants to do the
high speed ferry project.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MR. MERRILL:
He's a real transportation transit guy, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I was just noticing that the text here he doesn't think much of...
MR. MERRILL:
Beth?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Beth.
MR. MERRILL:
That's right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
Not a big fan.
CPL. HOLLIS:
There was something here from him talking about I will get you a draft of
communication that hopefully encompasses our discussion of 10 days
ago. Would that be pertaining to some kind of county discussion?
MR. MERRILL:
Is this continued from here?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, I don't know. I mean it's from him, but I just don't know the date.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
There's no dates in there.
MR. MERRILL:
Stressing.... Okay. Yeah. She was bugging.... Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And how he wanted to meet with you about....
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah, I guess I'll set it up. Thanks. Maybe we can take 15 minutes. Oh,
no, no, no. Okay. So this is... there's actually a break here. This is not a
continuation.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
What this is about is his ferry project.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MR. MERRILL:
So Mike Salinero had written an article about the ferry project that had to
do with.... So we have this agreement with his client and I had said that,
you know, the only way we're going to fund the ferry project is if we get a
sales tax referendum and he said, no. That's not the deal. So anyway,
that's what that's about.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Kind of about Go Hillsborough, but kind of not.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. He's pretty much outside the whole Go Hillsborough process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And again, there was no outside influence from commissioners,

Beth Leytham, on who you should choose for the Go Hillsborough
project?
MR. MERRILL:
Nope.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Sir, if it's okay if we have questions later on down the road.
Obviously, this investigation has been going on for a few weeks. We're
waiting on a lot of documents. Just got a bunch of emails from your IT
folks.
MR. MERRILL:
Oh, good.
CPL. HOLLIS:
We're getting ready to dive into those. I'm sure there's thousands and
thousands of them. But you've been open to us and I appreciate
everything.
MR. MERRILL:
Oh, yeah. My pleasure. Thank you.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is there any questions you have for us?
MR. MERRILL:
No. I mean, I can tell you guys are working hard and I appreciate that and
you know, this is not what you want to spend your time on, but I just want
you to know it really is important for the community because without
getting this settled.... I mean, this is already a heavy lift to try and get this
thing funded. But you know, what you're doing is really important, so I
appreciate it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay, sir.
MR. MERRILL:
And anything else you need let me know. I assume you're getting good
cooperation from everyone.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. Everybody we've been talking to; records we've requested, even
though it does take some time depending on the record.
MR. MERRILL:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Everybody's been cooperative so far.
MR. MERRILL:
Good. Let me know if that changes because this is really important to me.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I will. I'll stop the recording. It's 4:32 p.m.
End of interview.
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Attachment Description: MICHAEL MERRILL #2 INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:
For: 4602

2015-691857
Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222593, interview Michael Merrill, Hillsborough
County County Administrator
CPL. HOLLIS:
Today is December 21, 2015. The time is 1:13 p.m. This is Corporal
Charles Hollis. ABN is 5603. This interview being conducted today is in
reference to the GO Hillsborough investigation. This interview being
conducted is on the 26th floor of the county building. Also present for the
interview....
DET. PORTALATIN:
DET. CLARK:
CPL. HOLLIS:
And sir?
MR. MERRILL:
Michael Merrill, County Administrator for Hillsborough County.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And Mr. Merrill, you're aware our conversation is being recorded?
MR. MERRILL:
Yes, I am.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. MERRILL:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. Okay. And this is the second time we've talked on the record.
Just had a couple follow-ups.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
We're winding this investigation down. Just have a few more interviews to
do and just had a few things we just wanted to cover. We last spoke on
October 21st of this year.
MR. MERRILL:
Okay.
Page 668 of 1954


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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
During our speaking with several people, we spoke to Commissioner
Hagan and during that, he mentioned specifically that I had asked him the
question if there were any discussions prior to the August 12th, 2014, PLG
meeting. Kind of a direction because it appears just based on the
transcript that there was some thought of maybe moving to an assisted...
to have assistance from a private source.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Just because, you know, this really wasn't in you all's realm or expertise
and you needed that help.
MR. MERRILL:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So I had asked him that question based on kind of that assumption and he
mentioned that you had visited him. He wasn't sure if it was before or
after, but that you brought a list of firms to him and you were looking at
selecting somebody from New York or DC. He said he specifically
remembered that, that engaging someone out from New York or
Washington, DC. So do you remember that particular meeting?
MR. MERRILL:
I don't remember it, but probably.... Well, if it had been the list of firms that
we considered for the consulting it would have been after August 12th.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
He may be thinking about Larry Scully who we hired to help do the

evaluation. Larry's in Washington.
CPL. HOLLIS:
That's correct. He is.
MR. MERRILL:
So my guess is that's probably what he's talking about.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, he had mentioned the firms he remembered seeing on the list. He

wasn't... he didn't think it was the full 53, but he thought maybe it was
maybe the 10. He remembered HNTB being on there; Parsons
Brinckerhoff, HDR. He remembered those specifically being on the list. So
one of the questions, I mean when the PLG directed you to select, hey, we
need you to go ahead and pick somebody.
MR. MERRILL:
Correct.
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you go around to each commissioner and say this is the process we're
using and here are the firms we're looking at? Did you do anything like
that?
MR. MERRILL:
I'm sure I told them what the process was. I probably told all of the PLG
members because it wasn't just our commission. I doubt that I would have
taken a list because that would have been, we would've been in the
procurement process. I wouldn't... I wouldn't have known who they were. I
wouldn't have taken a list around to show anybody if we were in the
procurement mode, so that's why I'm a little bit confused why he said bring
a list of firms to him.
CPL. HOLLIS:
He specifically remembered engaging someone out in New York or DC.
MR. MERRILL:
Probably Scully.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And the Larry Scully connection could explain that?
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But that he remembered seeing certain firms on the list, but from just
remembering from our conversation before, were you exactly sure how
the selection process was going to go?
MR. MERRILL:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because the direct select kind of came about through that.
MR. MERRILL:
It came about afterwards and we didn't even know it as going to be CCNA

until after the August 12th Policy Leadership Group meeting. So I mean we
knew we had a pool of folks. We knew that. We knew that our
procurement policies allowed for some sort of direct select, but I mean we
had no idea prior to August 12th, or I didn't at least that we were going to
be in the CCNA process. So I don't believe I.... I don't believe I.... I mean I
don't remember, but I can't imagine taking a list of any firms to any
commissioners because that would have tripped over some procurement
issues, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Or in the case where you all realize okay, we have 10 firms.
MR. MERRILL:
Sure.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Let's pick from this 10 to see if anybody's qualified.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah, I guess that's possible. I just....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
I don't remember. I mean I'm not saying he's not being truthful, I just don't
remember doing that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. Oh, he just.... And he said based on you all's conversation...
MR. MERRILL:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
It appeared that you were going to all the commissioners...
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
For that. I mean, and that's not unusual.
MR. MERRILL:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You meet with them periodically.
MR. MERRILL:
Normal briefings. Right. Yep. Yep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And there they're able to share opinions of maybe what direction you
should go or kind of give you input?
MR. MERRILL:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes?
MR. MERRILL:
Yep. Yep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And also when we spoke to Ms. Garsys, Lucia, she told us she was
in the hospital during that August time frame.
MR. MERRILL:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And not to... I'm not here to find out why she was in the hospital.
MR. MERRILL:
No...
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CPL. HOLLIS:
But just... do you remember if she was in the hospital at the time?
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Was she then kind of apart from the decision making going on,
because I understand that... what you had told us originally was that they
were to report to Lucia. She was kind of put in charge of...
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Larry and Mike Williams and John Lyons.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is that right?
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But with her being in the hospital, could that kind of prevent that?
MR. MERRILL:
I think she was only in for like a week.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
So you know whatever happened before she went in and then she came
back she would've picked up, so I don't remember talking to her when she
was in the hospital, but certainly before and after you know she would
have been involved.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But again, you let the decision making or at least the
recommendations to your folks?
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And they brought you a recommendation of Parsons.
MR. MERRILL:
Yep. So they came back and they narrowed it down to the 3. The
conversation we had was that HDR wasn't responsive for whatever
reason. HNTB had been hired by Pinellas County to do Greenlight and
that really left Parsons as the default choice, so....
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. When we spoke to... we spoke to Beth Leytham and we had pulled
her phone records just to kind of.... See and there was some emails back
and forth that we recovered from Parsons Brinckerhoff. Just kind of the
internal things.
MR. MERRILL:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I just wanted to share that with you. So this is.... Let's see here. This
is one where Beth had sent this to Bob Clifford and basically it says
update and it's dated Monday, August the 11th. Update. Mike Merrill called
me late Friday afternoon. We had a nice long, very productive
conversation related to transportation and county's approach. We went
through a good bit on the communication strategy side, including
messaging and timing. I'll be bold and say he heard me on several points.
He was very engaged and appreciative. I had already discussed similar
items with both Commissioner Hagan and Mayor Buckhorn who will
support those general approaches too.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Tomorrow is the PLG TED meeting, so I'll watch and attend and give you
an update following.
MR. MERRILL:
Sure. Yeah, so I went back and checked as well just to be sure I had my
timing. So on August 8th, which was that Friday.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. MERRILL:
She contacted me somehow, whether it was by text or phone and then I

texted back and said got your message. I'll call you after 4.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. Yeah.
MR. MERRILL:
So that was that one.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I have it here. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And you all spoke it looks like for 23
minutes.
MR. MERRILL:
Yep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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Case No: 2015-691857
MR. MERRILL:
So this kind of gets back to what I was describing at the first interview
where she was like contacting me, being helpful. So if I had known or if
she had told me or maybe if I had asked, that she was somehow going to
be going back to Parsons, I wouldn't have had that conversation. So she
never at any point said to me I'm looking for work. I want you to hire me or
I'm representing anybody or I'm not even representing, but I'm not, I'm not
involved with some firm. So.... But had she said that, I would not have had
that conversation.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
So.... That was....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, would this be more of a conversation of just Beth Leytham sharing

her opinion on something? Not necessarily from the standpoint of
Parsons.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But this is Beth Leytham who, from just a lot of people we've talked to, she
tends to share her opinion on certain issues.
MR. MERRILL:
Oh, yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So was this... could that be an example of that?
MR. MERRILL:
I think it's an example of it, but I think.... So I'm surprised to see this. You
know, Chip had said that, you know, when he sat in with Commissioner
Murman's interview, he said that this existed. He didn't have a copy of it,
but so I didn't know exactly what it said, but.... So this to me is kind of like
yes, so she was trying to be helpful. She was giving information, but never
said well, I'm going to share this with one of the firms that could potentially
be selected. I mean, I would have just said I'm sorry. I can't do that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you remember specifically what that... was the conversation about

moving with a private firm that their expert is transportation and not with a
political firm? Had that conversation... was that conversation going?
MR. MERRILL:
Well, so there was... there was... well, there was the comments at the PLG
meeting on the 12th about don't hire a PR firm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
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MR. MERRILL:
And she had sent me a text earlier... I guess some some of these.... Well, I
guess it was later.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah, I think it was on the 19th or something.
MR. MERRILL:
So I mean... so I guess you know I'm sure that what she was doing was
sharing the information because I said if it had gone deeper than that and
it was about strategy, you know, what I'm going to say on the 12th or how it
relates to Parsons, I wouldn't have had the conversation. So yes, it was
probably very general. It was probably helpful. It was probably about the
communication side of it, but none the less, the problem is that if she was
taking that information back to Parsons even if it wasn't specific to, you
know, the decision, I think... I know I would have been uncomfortable
going any further. So up until then, you know, all this other stuff that she
was texting me, you know, it was again unsolicited, very helpful,
informational.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. MERRILL:
But I wasn't aware at any point prior to this that it was actionable, that
she'd actually like then reported it to, you know, somebody who potentially
could be selected, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, in her job being hired by Parsons at that time was as a consultant to
put them in positions, to put them in position of meeting people within the
Tampa Bay region, specifically elected officials and that sort of thing.
MR. MERRILL:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So, you know, even if she didn't come out and say I'm Beth Leytham, I'm
representing Parsons, but she's, she's giving you her opinion based on
everything she's been involved in with transportation.
MR. MERRILL:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But yes, she's got Parsons as a client and others as a client.
MR. MERRILL:
Sure.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
So did she have an obligation if the reason she was calling was on behalf
of Parsons, because what she's told us is she was not. She was calling to,
you know, to give you her.... I mean her opinion.
MR. MERRILL:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But based on her experience and everything else like that.
MR. MERRILL:
Oh, sure. No, I'm sure it was.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So I mean anybody can look at it and say well, she's definitely calling for
Parsons.
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
She's denying that.
MR. MERRILL:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But again, you know, she's sharing with you what she thought the direction
that you all should go as a group.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. And that's, that was consistent all along with, you know, her other
communications. It was, it was never specifically, like I say, hire me. Do
this. You know, I'm going to try and get a subcontractor. It was never that.
So I never was really concerned and so yeah, I mean, as you say, if she
was just then passing that along to anybody and everybody, I guess that
would be okay. It's just.... Well if I had known...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, to look back now, yeah. You would obviously have been a lot more
cautious...
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Had you known if she was...
MR. MERRILL:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You know, representing a specific firm or not.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah. And so what I know is that if... there was nothing in that
conversation that came up that would have put up a red flag because if it
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Case No: 2015-691857
had, I would have just stopped the conversation. So it was probably just
very generic.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So she never said hey, Parsons would be perfect for this position?
MR. MERRILL:
No. Correct. Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Nothing like that. And then... so there... it was that conversation and
then really I don't think there was much, much more....
MR. MERRILL:
It was in September. It was after the selection.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. So that was after they had been selected, so really throughout this
as we're going through, then we kind of narrow down our scope. This
month of August is a pretty important time.
MR. MERRILL:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
In 2014.
MR. MERRILL:
But yes, you know, so on this again, you know, because we hadn't actually
started the selection process, none of us would have known that Parsons
would have been one of the three, so I guess in that sense, you know, it
probably was not a foul, it wasn't a harm. She wouldn't have known that. I
didn't know it and so I'm just saying from the point of view and just good
practice....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. MERRILL:
That, you know, I guess looking back I probably should have asked myself
but you know...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, it's easy, you know, then.... It appears, you know, there was a lot that
you all did to try to stay as you have said aboveboard.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You know, just following up the processes. I mean are there things to
improve on it?
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
You could look back on any situation and think oh, I should've done this, I
should've done that.
MR. MERRILL:
True.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But at no time in your conversation you remember her advocating for

Parsons?
MR. MERRILL:
No. Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Or advocating even for herself. Hey, I'd be perfect at this.
MR. MERRILL:
Correct. She never did that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. She did nothing like that?
MR. MERRILL:
No. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. One of the things too, back to Commissioner Hagan when he said
you all met, was that whoever was recommended he said to make sure
they have a local presence in the community.
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did that ring a bell?
MR. MERRILL:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
He maybe even said that at the PLG meeting itself, but he specifically said
in the meeting that you all had.
MR. MERRILL:
I think he did actually... I went back and looked at the transcript too. I think
he did actually say that. But yeah, and I think others had said that as well.
So I know that made sense understanding.... The dynamics of what we
were going through here. But anyway.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Have any questions?
DET. CLARK:
No, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No? Okay. I don't think I have any more questions. Anything else you'd like
to say, sir?
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MR. MERRILL:
No. I don't think so. Just thank you again.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. I'll stop the recording. It's 1:29 p.m.
MR. MERRILL:
Okay.
End of interview.
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Attachment Description: MIKE SUAREZ INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:
For: 4602

2015-691857
Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222593, interview Mike Suarez, Director of HART,
Tampa City Councilman
CPL. HOLLIS:
Today is November 12, 2015. The time is 3:23 p.m. This is Corporal
interview is being conducted in downtown Tampa at 315 East Kennedy
Boulevard. This is in reference to the Go Hillsborough investigation
Hillsborough County case number 15-691857. Also present for the
interview, sir, if you would state your full name, please.
MR. SUAREZ:
My name is Mike Suarez.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Mr. Suarez, you're aware our conversation is being recorded?
MR. SUAREZ:
Yes, I am.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. SUAREZ:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. Also present for the interview.
DET. PORTALATIN:
DET. CLARK:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Mr. Suarez, or may I call you Mike?
MR. SUAREZ:
You can call me Mike. Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Would you raise your right hand, sir?
MR. SUAREZ:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you swear or affirm the information you'll provide today will be the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
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Case No: 2015-691857
Re: Interview of Mike Suarez
MR. SUAREZ:
I do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. Alright. Just by way of introductions, we're here obviously at

your office. You're a Tampa City Council member.
MR. SUAREZ:
Yes, I am.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And you're the HART Director.
MR. SUAREZ:
I am. I am a director and also the chair of HART.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So if you can kind of just explain, I guess what.... Because you're a
city council member, when did you become a council member? When
were you voted...?
MR. SUAREZ:
I was originally elected to office in March of 2011. Took office in April 1,

2011. I was reelected this past year, March of 2015, and took office for my
second term on April of 2015.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And that's a 4-year term.
MR. SUAREZ:
That is a 4-year term.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright. And as being the HART Director, what exactly does that mean?
MR. SUAREZ:
HART, I am appointed by the Mayor. The Mayor has three selections to

put in there. Typically, either the Mayor or his designee will be one of the
members on there. There always has to be a member of Tampa city
government on HART's board. That is part of our charter. He selected me
to take his position and then there are two other folks that he selects, two
citizens, that also serve HART's board. By virtue of my service on HART, I
was selected chair about a year and a half ago. So I think I'm finishing up
my second full year as chairman of HART.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And prior to you being in that position, Mayor Buckhorn was in that
position?
MR. SUAREZ:
No. Mayor Buckhorn has the right to be there.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MR. SUAREZ:
He makes the decision as to whether or not he will serve. He made the
decision after his election back in 2011 to not serve and he selected me to
be on that board.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And obviously we're here about the Go Hillsborough investigation

involving the TED Group or what's now known as the PLG.
MR. SUAREZ:
Yep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
When did you become involved in that?
MR. SUAREZ:
I took over as chair I believe must have been January of 2013, so I've
been involved with them since then.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SUAREZ:
So after that, my first meeting with Go Hillsborough would've been

probably May of 2013.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And what was your understanding as to why the PLG or the TED
Group was formed?
MR. SUAREZ:
You know that is such an open question. I really still haven't figured that
one out, so.... And I'm not joking. I think that they started the process in
which they were going to look at key economic areas in which
transportation needed to be served. Over the course of those two years
they distilled that into other areas in which they wanted to find a process
to get more transportation options for Hillsborough County. Obviously, by
virtue of my chairmanship of HART, that's when I first got on board and
then we would have discussions about what it is that we needed to do.
Some direction. It really was a group created by the county commission in
order to kind of get as many players that are involved in transportation
involved. You know, frankly, you know, we ask a lot of questions on a lot of
different issues, but it was mostly information gathering that was then
shared with us. We would then at some point make a decision as to what
direction might be the best for the county.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Some of what I understood too is why this group was created was
after 2010 when they attempted to raise, to do a referendum...
MR. SUAREZ:
That's correct.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
To support transportation needs and that failed. They were trying a
different approach.
MR. SUAREZ:
That's correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So that seems accurate?
MR. SUAREZ:
That is correct. That is correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Now you became a council member in 2011.
MR. SUAREZ:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. The Invision Project that was the Riverwalk Project. Were you part
of any of that, any involvement?
MR. SUAREZ:
No. Other than the Invision Project process was.... Here's how I would've
been involved. We would've voted to allow for consultants to be part of
that, meaning that the Tampa Housing Authority has authority over many
of the other parts of that project. We also as a city had some land that was
part of it. We also contributed some dollars to it. So my role would've been
to vote for a contract to hire a consultant in order to it. AECOM was a
consultant at the time and they were handling most of that project; I think
all of the projects from the very beginning all the way to the end.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Now in dealing with hiring consultants and things like that for that city, do
you all also handle any kind of subcontractors? Are you all involved in any
of that?
MR. SUAREZ:
Whenever a contract goes out to bid, when we do a request for a proposal

or a request for a qualification, we have as council a hands off policy. We
cannot do that. That's the law as you know, so you know, we do not make
recommendations on that once the RFP is put in. If there's going to be any
suggestion from us to the administration.... And the administration is the
one that runs the process for selection of any consultants. We just sign off
on the contracts. We could refuse the contract or we can approve the
contract. That's it. We do not have a role in selecting that project
consultant. So for us that is a role of the administration and that's in our
charter and we don't have a change in that. There's certain things we can
do, but that is one thing that we cannot do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MR. SUAREZ:
So our role in it is after the fact, so the process of selection is already

done. Then we will either approve or disapprove a contract.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you all get involved in if say a particular vendor that you brought on,
are you concerned with the subcontractors they bring on or do you hold
the main vendor responsible for the project essentially?
MR. SUAREZ:
Yeah. Typically no. We don't deal with any subcontractors that that main
contractor's bringing on except when for larger construction projects you
might have an overarching master construction company and they might
have to bring in a specific type of vendor or construction company to do a
piece of work and it may, under the contractual obligations we have and
they have to us, have to report to us or because it's over a certain
threshold. Over a million dollars typically we'll discuss that before we vote
on it. So, but for the most part, no. We don't have any real say so on what
contractors they bring in.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So kind of jumping in with these TED meetings and kind of moving
forward to the August 2014 meeting where as a group you all wanted to
move forward with this project and essentially directing Mike Merrill to go
ahead and let's hire a private, if there were motions that were made, to go
ahead and hire someone outside with experience, transportation
experience.
MR. SUAREZ:
Sure. Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you recall that meeting?
MR. SUAREZ:
Sure. Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So at that point, I know you all were kind of in a fact-finding mode and just
trying to see where you all could go as far as... because the main thing
was the referendum and getting that on the 2016 ballot.
MR. SUAREZ:
That's correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So what...? I guess when they wanted to move forward with hiring a

consultant from the outside, were you aware of who they were looking at
possibly?
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Case No: 2015-691857
MR. SUAREZ:
No. Other than after the fact when they brought on... if I recall this
correctly, when they brought on Parsons Brinckerhoff, that was the first
indication as to who it was going to be and you have to recall that TED or
the Policy Leadership Group, whatever you call it, there is no operational
control by any other members because that was all of a county contract.
We may have been, quote unquote, voting for something, but we have no
power at all by law or by fact in anything. That is a county decision to put
that contract together. So I just want to make sure you know that that even
when we vote as a collegial body of people that are there, we; myself, the
mayor, the mayors of Temple Terrace and Plant City, have no control over
how that process is done in any way whatsoever.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SUAREZ:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No I understand that.
MR. SUAREZ:
That's an important distinction because a lot of people think that because

we were meeting together than in some way we are... it's either a
Sunshine board or a board in which there is real power there. There isn't.
The only people that have power to do anything, including the referendum,
is the county commission.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But because you all were meeting as a collective group...
MR. SUAREZ:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
It would be partaking in if the referendum did pass everybody would have,

I guess, a piece of the pie if you will.
MR. SUAREZ:
Well, a piece of the discussion, you know. I mean it's an empty pie
because you know the idea is is that if I could... I can scream and holler
about one person or another in terms of where we're going, it doesn't
matter because, you know, I have no control over what they're going to do.
It's a little bit different than when you're on council, because when you're
on council or even when you're on county commission, there's a real
connection to your job in terms of your decisions you make and the
administration of those particular decisions, where as the Policy
Leadership Group is, you know, they call them council, government, or
something like that, which is we're all kind of getting together trying to
figure something out, but by state law, only the county commission has the
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Case No: 2015-691857
power to put it on a referendum. So we could keep talking all day long, but
if in December they decide they don't want to put it on referendum, it's not
going to be on the referendum.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SUAREZ:
I just wanted to clarify that a little.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I appreciate that.
MR. SUAREZ:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Was there a since of urgency with getting this project moving forward by
hiring an outside firm? Did there seem to be...?
MR. SUAREZ:
Well, in my mind I always wanted to try and get this done sooner rather
than later. I mean, and I said that publicly and still believe it to this day,
which is that the slower we took it the harder it became because, and
you'll see where we're at now, which is there's only so much time
whenever something goes awry as to how do you correct that. You know?
When you have less and less and time, now you've made a mistake and
now everyone's saying let's not do anything and that's a bad thing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. SUAREZ:
So the urgency was not, you know... the discussions with... if I recall
correctly that particular meeting, we talked about what it is they were
going to do and why they have the expertise and I think that was
essentially the essence of it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Were you involved in any meetings outside of the PLG or the TED
involved in selecting Parsons?
MR. SUAREZ:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Are you aware of any of the council members or the members of the
board being part of any of those meetings.
MR. SUAREZ:
You mean the council members or the commissioners?
CPL. HOLLIS:
As part of the PLG.
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MR. SUAREZ:
Okay. I don't know of any, I don't know what other contacts any of those
folks had with anyone about that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SUAREZ:
The selection process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Or anybody pushing a certain firm. Hey, we need to select this person or

this person?
MR. SUAREZ:
No. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Beth Leytham is a name that you're probably familiar with now.
MR. SUAREZ:
I know her very well.
CPL. HOLLIS:
When did you meet her?
MR. SUAREZ:
When did I originally meet her?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. SUAREZ:
I probably... gosh. Something like maybe 15, 20 years ago. I've known her
a long time. I mean, we're not... we have not been close over the years,
but I met her many years ago when I worked for Senator Bob Graham. So
she's been around quite a while.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And in meeting her then, was she a consultant or...?
MR. SUAREZ:
At the time, I think she was working government, but I can't remember that
directly. I'm pretty sure she was.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SUAREZ:
She may have been working as a spokesperson either for one of the local
governmental entities or something like that, so I'm sorry. I'm just trying to
turn this around so I don't have to look at it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, no. No problem. Were you aware if she was under contract with
Parsons prior to the Go Hillsborough project?
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Case No: 2015-691857
MR. SUAREZ:
I knew that Parsons was a client of hers. Now what that meant in my mind
was that she represented Parsons in terms of public relations type of
issues. Nothing more.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did she ever approach you in reference to that?
MR. SUAREZ:
All she had told me was that they were her client not in terms of any
specific project.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you remember when she told you that?
MR. SUAREZ:
Oh, gosh. Probably in 2013 would be my guess. And it didn't surprise me

that she would be representing a large firm. She's been around a long
time. She's been doing a lot of this stuff.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And as a consultant, do you know what kind of her role would be as
to navigate meetings between selected officials or kind of getting Parsons
introduced I guess to people.
MR. SUAREZ:
That's exactly correct. I mean that is the sense of what I believed her role
was with Parsons.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So obviously some of the allegations that have been made through
the media reports is that she had influence on Parsons being hired or....
MR. SUAREZ:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because of her relationships and documented relations with certain

commissioners and the mayor.
MR. SUAREZ:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Are you aware of any influence she had?
MR. SUAREZ:
On?
CPL. HOLLIS:
On having Parsons selected?
MR. SUAREZ:
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what her role was in terms of
getting them selected. All I know is what I read in the newspaper.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And are you aware of how the process was made for Parsons to be
selected?
MR. SUAREZ:
The only thing that I remember is from the publicly stated purpose from
the administrator, Mike Merrill, saying that Parsons was one of several
companies that they looked at and here are some of the perimeters that
we looked at in terms of selecting who we selected. So I think that they
had mentioned HDR in addition to PB and maybe a couple of other
companies. I think there were maybe 4 consultants that they talked about
and I'm doing this from memory, so I may be incorrect about that. And that
they were going to select it based on the fact that they were one of 4 of
many different contractors that were already approved by the county that
they could do it based on, I guess state law that allows them to go ahead
and go out without much of a bid. That they were already approved as a
bidded, a bid or a company that's already bid on other projects and they
allowed them to continue to do other type of projects without any other
thing and he did it under his purview as county administrator. Because if I
recall correctly, the first contract was less than or about $100,000 or
somewhere in that neighborhood and it eventually grew from there.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. The procurement process was followed. They had 53 firms down to
10.
MR. SUAREZ:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And your understanding because of the sense of urgency they went

ahead and hey, we've already got these 10 vendors. Let's look and see
who's qualified.
MR. SUAREZ:
And again, that was reported to us at the Policy Leadership meeting and it
may have been in that August 2014 meeting or before that, because I
think George Walton from PB made a presentation to us probably right
after he had been selected as to what the scope of work was going to be
and some of the ideas that they had.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. In October 2014.
MR. SUAREZ:
Yeah. It's right around that same time frame.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So kind of back to Beth Leytham, I mean, are you aware if she was
involved in the process?
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MR. SUAREZ:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SUAREZ:
I did not know she was involved in the process at all other than the fact
that I knew that she had worked for PB in some capacity.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Are you aware of any conversations she had with any
commissioners about pushing Parsons as being selected?
MR. SUAREZ:
No. The only thing I know about is what's been reported.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Are you aware of any ethical issues within the commission itself
involved in this whole process?
MR. SUAREZ:
Not that I know of. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright. So since Parsons had been brought on, you all have had a few
meetings just to kind of, I guess, keep you updated on the progress of
everything?
MR. SUAREZ:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Most recently this last one where they, I guess, presented everything.
MR. SUAREZ:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And you all took a vote. Do you know what Beth's involvement was?
MR. SUAREZ:
In which part?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Just with Parsons in general.
MR. SUAREZ:
No. I knew, again, I knew that she had represented them, so she was
always trying to put a spin on what they were doing. That's the best way of
putting it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SUAREZ:
At least with me. Her discussion with me was more about the spin and
trying to convince me that what PB was doing was best for the county. In
fact, I recall and you probably already have this record of my text
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message from me to her or her to me and then me responding, which is
me not being very complimentary of what they brought out. Which would
have been earlier this year sometime, probably in the springtime.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I have to check because, I mean I know we were....
MR. SUAREZ:
I think we brought... I think we gave it to you, but if not, I will gladly give it
to you.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I'll have to check. Yeah, I know, I mean I've made so many requests and I
know we reached out for yours, so we'll double check that.
MR. SUAREZ:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Just to make sure. So how would you often communicate with Ms.
Leytham?
MR. SUAREZ:
I would either call her on the phone. She would call me. But a lot of
times... she loves to text as you actually found out.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Ok. Yeah..
MR. SUAREZ:
And so did the press. And so, and it was more playful not professional in
terms of some of the things that we would say to each other, but you
know, there were times that, you know, there was some public questions
that were either brought to me or I brought back to her. Most of my
conversations with her were more of if you're available at a certain time,
let's go to lunch or talk about this particular issue. One case in particular
was after they did the survey, which would've been sometime earlier this
year, in terms of what the next step was going to be. You know, the
mixture of roads and transit and everything else. They did a... they did a...
what do you call it? A survey in which... you know, and I made a comment
to her in one my texts that I wanted to see the whole survey not just what
they call the cross tabs, cross tabulations in terms of demographics and
everything else. I had lunch with her and the consultant. I did that. Which
was Mr. Fitzpatrick, I think is his name and we met over at the Tampa Club
for lunch.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SUAREZ:
And that was the last time... actually probably the last time that I talked to
her about this project. I may be wrong about that, but I'm pretty sure.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
About Go Hillsborough?
MR. SUAREZ:
About Go Hillsborough. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Were there times when you all would've met prior to go Hillsborough
County, but during your part of the PLG or the TED Group where you all
would meet and have discussions about progress or moving forward?
MR. SUAREZ:
The total number of times that I met with her about this might have been
two. So the one that I just mentioned and maybe in passing, at other times
that we might have seen each other, but not as many formal things. Now
we've had presentations made by PB to us both publicly and I may have
had at least one meeting with them privately to talk about what they were
going to present. Much of the time it was usually with county staff that
would meet with us prior to any PLG meetings to say this is what we're
going to have. You know, we usually do it a week before and say this is
what we're going to have for next week in terms of the presentation of
either substantive information, surveys, that type of thing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you find that Beth's... when she is communicating, that text messages
are her preferred method?
MR. SUAREZ:
At least with me.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SUAREZ:
At least with me.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Whether it's work related or personal?
MR. SUAREZ:
Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Now back to my earlier question, just about how many times you all
have met. Before Go Hillsborough was started, before Parsons was given
the contract, was there a time when you all had met to discuss moving
forward on the PLG or where to go.
MR. SUAREZ:
Not really. I mean she was trying to convince me... primarily her role to me
was trying to convince me of what Parsons' project had become, the
completed project. She did not want to have opposition to what that
completed piece was.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SUAREZ:
So she was always trying to make... convince me to not be against this

particular plan and I think in her mind is that she wanted to have unanimity
as much as possible to make sure that we would go forward. Now....
CPL. HOLLIS:
And was that before Parsons was selected?
MR. SUAREZ:
No. That would've been, that would've been after they were selected.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SUAREZ:
Before they were selected, I didn't really have a lot of direct contact with
her about Go Hillsborough itself.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But I mean because she is... or she was under contract or had
worked for Parsons before.
MR. SUAREZ:
And again, I understood that she was under contract with them more as a
PR flack than something else.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. But because, I mean, her interest is Parsons as a client.
MR. SUAREZ:
Sure. Sure. Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did it seem like she was trying to say hey, if it opens up to a private firm,
Parsons is where you need to go?
MR. SUAREZ:
No, no. She never made any comment about that. I never had a comment
with her about Parsons being selected as the contractor. I don't think I
ever had any conversation with her about that at all.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Had there been any discussions prior to that August meeting when you all
moved forward to hire a private engineering firm with transportation
experience? Had there been discussions prior to that about maybe we
need to kind of go in a different direction?
MR. SUAREZ:
Wait. Let me follow your question again. If you could say it again, I'll....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. So August 2014.
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MR. SUAREZ:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
As a board, you all directed Mike let's go ahead and move forward hiring
an outside firm.
MR. SUAREZ:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Prior to that, was there any discussions that you're aware of or you had
where, you know what? The county is doing what they're doing, but
maybe we need to find somebody with expertise.
MR. SUAREZ:
No. Not that I recall.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Before that actual meeting.
MR. SUAREZ:
No. Not that I recall at all.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Okay. I don't think I have any more questions. Do you mind if these
guys ask you anything if they have anything?
MR. SUAREZ:
No. Please if they have anything.
DET. PORTALATIN:
I think you may have mentioned or you may have answered this already,
but just to clarify for myself, do you ever recall you or any other member of
the PLG every receiving a list or the names of the firms that are being
considered prior to their selection?
MR. SUAREZ:
Mm-hmm.
DET. PORTALATIN:
No?
MR. SUAREZ:
I mean, and again, I want to make sure that we're clear about this. I am
sure that they mentioned it to us at one of the PLG meetings in terms of
the number... either the number or the names of at least 4 of the firms that
I can recall. Okay? I believe that one was HDR. I think might have been
AECOM. One was of course Parsons Brinckerhoff and I don't know who
the other, the fourth one was, but it seemed like that was where everything
was coalescing. Okay
DET. PORTALATIN:
And another question. In what context was Beth

making you aware that she worked for Parsons? Was it just passing you
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communication or was she trying to let me know something about what
they were doing?
MR. SUAREZ:
I think, and I don't know the exact time frame, but she had told me that
she was working with Parsons prior to any of this stuff with PLG and of
course, Parsons being such a large engineering contracting firm, they
have lots of contracts with not only us but every other governmental entity
here in the state. I mean, they're a very large cooperation as you know
and that she wanted me to meet George Walton, who's, you know, the
head of the local office and I had a chance to meet him briefly, but other
than that, nothing else.
DET. PORTALATIN:
So there was no specific, I guess, work or project that

she was trying to introduce you to him for.
MR. SUAREZ:
Right. It wasn't project specific, it was sort of I want you to meet my client,
George Walton represents Parsons Brinckerhoff here. That's kind of the
way that I got it from her.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Okay. Do you remember around what time that could

be? If you could maybe narrow it....
MR. SUAREZ:
I will tell you it was.... I'm trying to remember because it was a political
event down in Miami. Democratic party has a dinner down there, a big
dinner in June called, I think it's called the Blue Gala now, but it used to be
the Jefferson-Jackson dinner. George Walton was going to be down there.
She had invited me to be part of that table. I already had a table that I was
sitting at and that was kind of the discussion of I'd like you to meet
George. I didn't know George Walton prior to that. So that might have
been... the way they do those dinners, I think they do it every two years,
so it may have been 2013.
DET. PORTALATIN:
MR. SUAREZ:
Okay.
I'm trying to think. No, I think they have it every year, so it may have been
2013, 2014. I can't remember which one it was. And I can check..it may
have been 2014.
DET. PORTALATIN:
MR. SUAREZ:
But at or around June is when...

Yeah. Yeah. It definitely is June. Every year it's in June.
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DET. CLARK:
Yeah. When it comes to having meetings or anything like that and your
different roles because part of the PLG there's the way that things are
documented...
MR. SUAREZ:
Sure.
DET. CLARK:
Are different from your role as with city council. How do you keep
meetings in the Sunshine when it comes to meeting with consultants or
like Beth Leytham?
MR. SUAREZ:
If your question... I don't think that you necessarily have to have meetings
in the Sunshine with consultants. I just have to.... Sunshine Law, as I
understand it, unless there is something that I'm missing, the Sunshine
Law really deals with the decision makers that are involved in the
particular board. So as an example; on the HART board that we're on, you
know, there are several county commissioners that are on there, so I can't
meet with them privately to talk about HART business. I may talk to them
about sports or about the weather or something else, but can't talk to them
about that. Same thing with my colleagues here. Consultants, typically
what you don't do is you don't meet with them prior to a contract being
awarded if you know that they're applying for the award and we try not to
do that. If it is prior to any kind of a board or any kind of RFP that's been
put out there, I typically don't meet with them. I mean, excuse me, I
typically can meet with them and sometimes I do. If they say listen, I've
got this brand new thing I want to see if the city is able to do it. I'll meet
with a group or a company and I'll suggest it to the administration and say
we may want to talk to these guys. Is this something that's useful? Is there
an RFP coming up? You might want to contact them and then I say
(indiscernible). Because you know, I don't have the role in selecting them,
so it is all up to whatever the administration does. Same thing with the
county. I mean I don't really have any, you know, power over there in
terms of telling them what to do, so I meet with consultants all the time.
DET. CLARK:
Are the PLG meetings are they recorded?
MR. SUAREZ:
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And they're actually filmed and they are live on television.
DET. CLARK:
Okay. And why?
MR. SUAREZ:
Yeah.
DET. CLARK:
Why?
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MR. SUAREZ:
Why?
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MR. SUAREZ:
I think that's because of the number of county commissioners they're all

there together.
DET. CLARK:
Right.
MR. SUAREZ:
And it constitutes... and probably their legal department says listen, we got
all these guys from the same board. We don't want to run afoul of the
statute concerning Sunshine Law.
DET. CLARK:
Exactly.
MR. SUAREZ:
For me, it is because it's not an official board. It is an unofficial grouping.

There's no Sunshine Law violation if I talk to a county commissioner, but I
don't typically because they're on my other boards. And because it
includes transportation, we don't discuss these things.
DET. CLARK:
Right. And in the matters that were discussed at the PLG or TED
meetings, many of those matters would come before a board meeting.
Correct?
MR. SUAREZ:
It probably would.
DET. CLARK:
Yes? And whenever there is a fact-finding group or a meeting that is...

which decisions go to the county or an elected official like Mike Merrill and
we know that those decisions, like Go Hillsborough would eventually go to
the county for a vote, maybe those things were recorded and put to
Sunshine and certain people were mandatory to be there. Like our county
attorney. That's where I was going with the basis.
MR. SUAREZ:
Sure.
DET. CLARK:
That's where I'm going with the basis of my question.
MR. SUAREZ:
Well, if I.... You know, let me put it still in a different way.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
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MR. SUAREZ:
You know, I've made this comment and you can talk to the county attorney
about this, which is my belief that that is not a Sunshine board that
controls what I say. In terms of the members that are part of HART, I
would never discuss anything with them because chances are we're going
to have to deal with it at HART also, so that would be a violation of the
Sunshine Law.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MR. SUAREZ:
If I made a conversation with anyone that had to do with influencing the

county commission to make a decision one way or the other, that would
make me a conduit or make that person a conduit to a Sunshine Law
violation and that's something I wouldn't do either. So that's the thing that
you're looking at.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MR. SUAREZ:
Which is the conduit part, which is....
DET. CLARK:
And that's, and that's where I was going. When.... I'm sure you've seen
everything in the paper.
MR. SUAREZ:
Sure.
DET. CLARK:
Where the.... And that's where I'm trying to get clarification. Is when a
consultant or a... just a consultant. We'll put it that way because they've
been self described as something.
MR. SUAREZ:
Well, you can make it a county employee. Make it anybody.
DET. CLARK:
Or anybody or anyone. Right?
MR. SUAREZ:
Sure. Sure.
DET. CLARK:
But that person is transferring information between those parties and then
we have a Sunshine issue if that person is, well, like you use the term
conduit.
MR. SUAREZ:
Absolutely.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
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MR. SUAREZ:
And I'll give you a great example of something that happens all the time
which is I'm talking to the county administrator and I'll say I don't think
thing's going to pass and he tells me no, I think I've got 4 votes on it. That
could be considered a violation of Sunshine law.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MR. SUAREZ:
Because he's telling me what other county commissioners are, but he's
telling me. I'm not on the board.
DET. CLARK:
Right.
MR. SUAREZ:
Now if you told it to other county commissioners, that would be a violation.

See what I'm saying?
DET. CLARK:
Right. Because it's....
MR. SUAREZ:
Because I don't have a vote there. I don't have a vote in terms of what
direction they're going, so it's only a conduit. He's only a conduit when it's
him among other board members that are a Sunshine board. Me to
anyone else is not a violation as long as I don't serve on that board with
them. So that's why there's no... you can't make the connection. The
connection has to be direct. It can't be an indirect connection to them. I
can talk all day about what I think the county commission could do, but
you know, I don't have a vote there so it doesn't matter. If you follow my
reasoning. I mean that's the way that they've taught us the way the
Sunshine Law works.
DET. CLARK:
And looking at the city of Tampa has, they have their.... Their rules I think
were revised in 2013 as far as how to deal with consultants and how to
document that.
MR. SUAREZ:
Like lobbyists and things like that.
DET. CLARK:
Lobbyists.
MR. SUAREZ:
Yeah.
DET. CLARK:
Consultants. Anything dealing with Sunshine. Gifts and stuff like that.
Would you consider a consultant or a PR person lending their services pro
bono would that be a gift?
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MR. SUAREZ:
That's a good question. I would probably say no and you know, the gift law
that we have is that you can accept anything under $100.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MR. SUAREZ:
Anything above it, you can still accept it, but you have to report it, so if
someone was doing a pro bono thing.... I'll give... here's an example. Let's
say a consultant said, you know what? I know you'll really enjoy this
particular charity. I'm willing to do some pro bono work for you for that
charity. Now it's not directly related to what I've done, but in my mind as an
elected official, I know they're doing it because I'm an elected official.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MR. SUAREZ:
So I would probably report that pro bono amount that they're giving to a
charity that I am a part of or a board member or something like that. So
you know, there's ways that, you know, you can try and shape it in a lot of
different ways, but I would agree that it probably is something that should
be reported regardless of the intent. It should be reported.
DET. CLARK:
Yes. And Tampa has that disclosure form. I think you guys have a yearly...
MR. SUAREZ:
Correct.
DET. CLARK:
A yearly review in that, right?
MR. SUAREZ:
Correct.
DET. CLARK:
And where I was getting at is if that PR person or consultant or whatever

or somebody that's there to make relationships with political people.
MR. SUAREZ:
Sure.
DET. CLARK:
Those with power. If they normally charge X amount of thousand dollars a

month for that service, the consultants at this level, at least the ones we've
investigating, they're several thousand dollars a month apiece.
MR. SUAREZ:
Oh, I'm sure.
DET. CLARK:
Per client. So it would be well above that $500 or $100 gift.
MR. SUAREZ:
Absolutely.
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DET. CLARK:
Okay? How would you report that? If you could walk us through that
process a little bit?
MR. SUAREZ:
Well, probably the easiest example is this. Every year I get an invitation to
go see the Bucs play, which is not really a great perk to get if you've seen
them play lately, to go to the orange box. Okay. I have never taken them
up on that. Two reasons. One, is that you know we do, even though the
Sports Authority is not directly our control, we do have some operational
and financial interest with them. I would have to not only either accept the
gift and say that the Glazers gave me a gift of two tickets worth $800
each, which would be $1600. Or I would have to pay the difference
between the $200, the $100 and the $1600. So $1500 out of my pocket is
not worth to go watch a football game that I can watch on television.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MR. SUAREZ:
And the way that it looks to me it doesn't look as good if I'm accepting
$2,000 worth of... or almost $2,000 worth of tickets to someone that may
or may not have business before me. Again, I think that the intent is to
show that you have a relationship and that relationship is based on certain
things whether it's a gift or a direct contribution like we do for campaigns,
you should know what those relationships are. It's about getting it out in
the open and get it to be public. That to me is the most important part of
the Sunshine Law. So yeah, I mean if you're going to report it, you would
get it on your form, you would put down what it was that you accepted,
how much it was, the normal face value of it; whether you paid it or you
didn't pay it. Doesn't matter. You know, if it's under the $100 you don't
have to report it and that's fine. But if it's over the $100 you should report
it. You either pay for it and report it, pay for it and not report. You know. So
it's up to you, but you should document.
DET. CLARK:
But that mechanism I believe was 2013 is when...
MR. SUAREZ:
Oh, yeah. The mechanism has been around for a while.
DET. CLARK:
For a while.
MR. SUAREZ:
Even before 2013, it's just a different....
DET. CLARK:
It's just been revised a little bit.
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MR. SUAREZ:
Yeah.
DET. CLARK:
A little bit better. I think there was some issues in 2010 that were related to
that revision, so I just wanted to clarify that there is a process for when
there comes a time for a gift or receiving of a service and that that service
could be properly reported.
MR. SUAREZ:
Absolutely.
DET. CLARK:
When it comes to Sunshine.
MR. SUAREZ:
Absolutely.
DET. CLARK:
But there is a process for a particular service. For example, you know,
people think about consultants and they don't put a monetary value on it
because they don't see what they charge.
MR. SUAREZ:
Right.
DET. CLARK:
But if they were going to someone like a dentist and they were giving out
free care you would have a general idea, but consulting is very,
sometimes very vague.
MR. SUAREZ:
Well, I mean, consultants try to make it very vague so they can charge you
more money, so....
DET. CLARK:
Yeah. That's true. And then I think when it comes to.... Even though the
board, the PLG didn't have the voting power or anything like that, you
described the difference in power. But was there any particular training or
any advice given to those members who... about how you guys should
conduct yourselves legally?
MR. SUAREZ:
I think that because all of us were elected officials, I think that we pretty
much know what the Sunshine Laws are, supposed to. I mean, let's face
it, you know, there are some people that don't understand the Sunshine
Law and they break it all the time. They don't even realize they're doing it.
I know that whenever I would be around any kind of elected official, if I
saw them, you know, doing something they weren't supposed to and in
fact, this happened probably 3 years ago somebody started to make a
conversation with me about an issue that was going to come before us as
a board and I said we can't talk about this because we're on the same
board.
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DET. CLARK:
Right.
MR. SUAREZ:
So I mean we're supposed to be self-policing, we're supposed to be able

to make sure that we do not put ourselves in those type of positions and I
tend to make sure that if there is anything like that, I make sure everyone
knows I understand what you're asking me to do or what you're telling me.
This is not proper. We're not going to have a conversation about this. So,
you know, and if they don't stop talking, I usually just walk away.
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir.
MR. SUAREZ:
The easiest way to solve that problem. Yeah.
DET. CLARK:
Are you aware of any violations on the PLG or the TED Group?
MR. SUAREZ:
No. Not that I know of.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Ever had witness to any of that?
MR. SUAREZ:
No. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I'm sorry. Trent did you have anything?
DET. CLARK:
No. I mean, I was... I'm done. Thank you, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Has Beth Leytham ever provided any services for you?
MR. SUAREZ:
No. Not personally.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Has she written any talking points for you or drafted anything to assist you
with anything?
MR. SUAREZ:
No. I mean she would push out what she thought, you know, should be a
talking point of something. Doesn't mean that I would definitely take it, but
that's kind of her job, which is this is what we believe this is what it says,
so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SUAREZ:
Yeah.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Because this came forward through media reports and Mike Merrill
wanted to make sure that everything....
MR. SUAREZ:
Everything's above board.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Above board. What is your opinion of the whole process? Through the
PLG.
MR. SUAREZ:
In terms of honesty or in terms of...?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. SUAREZ:
Okay. No, I never found in any way as if there was, you know, somebody
was cooking the books or anything or tried to do something untoward. In
my mind there was no problem with PB selected. I mean they're a fine
firm. There's nothing about them that would tell me that they really
shouldn't have been selected. You know, the county, and if you were
following enough of this, you saw that when the contract came before the
city for us to put in our share for some of the services of PB, it came from
PB directly which I had a problem with because it was the county that had
contracted with them and if you're going to do a change order like you
typically do with contracts, it would only make sense that a memorandum
of understanding would be between us and the county. Not between us
and Parsons Brinckerhoff because we did not hire Parsons Brinckerhoff
and for us to make that kind of decision, I didn't think it was right. So that
was the only thing that was a little bit goofy and I don't know, I really don't
even understand why the city put it up with Parsons Brinckerhoff. My
guess is that... you know, a bunch of engineers had just thought this was
the easiest way of doing it. That's my guess. But to me that was the only
issue that I had, more with Parsons than anything else.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What was the city's, I guess, expense?
MR. SUAREZ:
I think it was going to be about $75,000 our portion of it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SUAREZ:
You know, and again, that grew from that small amount at the beginning to
about a million.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. It started at $53,000.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. SUAREZ:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And grew....
MR. SUAREZ:
To about 1.3, I think or something like that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. So okay. And did you all have a separate work order or what...? Or
you were just...?
MR. SUAREZ:
You mean with the city?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. With Parsons.
MR. SUAREZ:
No. No. In fact that was the problem, which is instead of us saying we will
agree to pay the county our portion of what we've agreed to. It wasn't that.
It was here's a new contract for Parsons and I said that's not... we
shouldn't be doing it that way and so we did not approve it. In fact, we
gutted it. Especially after all these stories came out.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I just hadn't seen any documentation as far as realizing that you all
had actually contributed any money to...
MR. SUAREZ:
We had not... we had not.... And actually, we haven't.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SUAREZ:
That was the first, that would have been the first time we would've given
any money.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Maybe that would be something we could maybe get some records
of that.
MR. SUAREZ:
Absolutely. Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because my understanding was yeah, it was... all the money was being
paid for by the county even though you all were going to benefit if the
referendum....
MR. SUAREZ:
And that is right and in fact, I think.... Oh, I'm trying to think of the date of
this particular discussion. When we expanded the scope of Parsons'
contract from the PLG standpoint and Commissioner White and I think
Commissioner Higginbotham and maybe even Commissioner Crist had
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
talked about having more of these meetings in order to get more of an
outreach. There was some discussion in which they said well, we would
like the cities to put some additional dollars in. The mayor being there, he
said sure. Okay. Now I didn't question the mayor at the time. Didn't do
anything other.... We never saw it until at that time when it came before
council and we made the decision not to approve it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. SUAREZ:
Okay?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Gotcha. Well, I remember I think it was the August meeting when it was to
move forward with hiring somebody.
MR. SUAREZ:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
The mayor had made mention, you know, pay them whatever we need to
pay them to get this moving forward, but at the time, what I understood, it
was just going to be the county's money anyway.
MR. SUAREZ:
Yeah. Exactly.
CPL. HOLLIS:
It's kind of easy to say.
MR. SUAREZ:
It's very easy. If you ever want me to spend your money, I will tell you I can
spend your money very easily. Yeah. No. That's exactly right, which is....
And that's why when we talk about Policy Leadership Group, you know, in
my mind from every... from the very beginning that I started this until now
it's always been about the county wanting to have a control over the
process from the very beginning because they would have to make the
ultimate decision about whether or not they put a referendum out there.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. SUAREZ:
So I had no problem with them making the decision to make them feel
comfortable to make that final decision because really they're the ones
that have to do it. So you know I never pushed back that hard against
them wanting to spend dollars in order to make the consultant, you know,
come up with a good plan and I thought for as far as these plans go it was
fine. So I didn't have any problem with that. So that's when everything
started getting a little bit hinky when we started getting, you know; what
happened in the press and then of course and then you guys got involved
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
because of Mike Merrill's suggestion. Then you start to think about it and
you go okay, so what really happened here. And that's why you're here.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. SUAREZ:
Exactly.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So are you aware of anything unethically that occurred during this process
or improper?
MR. SUAREZ:
Not from any of the players that I know. And again, this is one of the great
things about not being on county commission is that I'm not involved in
their lives very much, so you know, whatever they're doing I don't have
constant contact with any of the commissioners. I know a few of them... a
couple of them are my friends, but I don't talk about this issue in particular
because most of them serve on HART so there's no way for me to have a
comfortable conversation that is not against the Sunshine Law.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And personally speaking in your relationship with Beth, has she
made any comments to you about her displeasure with this whole thing,
with the whole investigation or...?
MR. SUAREZ:
No. Actually I have not talked to Beth in... what's today? November? I
probably haven't talked to her since that time I went to lunch to go over the
numbers that they had on the survey. That was it. Which would've been
maybe July, August. I'm trying to remember.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So before the Sheriff's Office was even involved in this investigation?
MR. SUAREZ:
Oh, yeah. It was well before that. Well before that. So, yeah, that was the
last time I think that I had any kind of conversation with her about this and
I haven't talked to her in general about anything since then.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Very good. Unless they have any more questions.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Not me.
DET. CLARK:
No, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sir, if there was an opportunity for us to talk you again if we had a few
more questions would that be okay?
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Case No: 2015-691857
MR. SUAREZ:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I'll go ahead and stop the recording. The time is 4:11 p.m.
End of interview.
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Attachment Description: PEGGY CASKEY INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:
For: 4602

15-691857
interview Peggy Caskey, Internal Auditor, in the presence of Detective Sam
Portalatin, ABN 222493.
CPL. HOLLIS:

interview is being conducted in reference to the Go Hillsborough
investigation. The case number is 15-691857. This interview is occurring
on the 16th floor of the county building. Also present for the interview,
ma'am, if you would state your name, please.
MS. CASKEY:
Peggy Caskey.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You spell your last name?
MS. CASKEY:
C-a-s-k-e-y.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. And you're aware our conversation is being recorded?
MS. CASKEY:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. CASKEY:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. And also present.
DET. PORTALATIN:
DET. CLARK:
CPL. HOLLIS:
And ma'am, would you raise your right hand, please? Do you swear and
affirm the information you'll provide today is the truth, the whole truth, and
MS. CASKEY:
Yes.
Page 711 of 1954


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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 15-691857
Re: Interview of Peggy Caskey
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you.
MS. CASKEY:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And just by way of introduction, your the internal auditor for Hillsborough
County. And how long have you been in that assignment?
MS. CASKEY:
Six weeks. I had to think.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And then prior to that, where were you employed?
MS. CASKEY:
With the Clerk of Circuit Court Internal Audit Department.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. CASKEY:
And I was there for like 3 years.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And is it safe to say that what you did over there is similar to what you're
doing here?
MS. CASKEY:
Same position.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Same position. Okay. So why the transfer over here?
MS. CASKEY:
Actually it was a good opportunity to get the two shops to work better
together.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh. Okay.
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So is there a time where that does happen where you'll have to

communicate with one another?
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah. A lot of overlap and.... Yeah. Yeah. And it's going to be the first time
we can actually run parallel rather than bumping into each other, so....
looked forward to it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And since you've had that experience over there now you can bring that
over here and try to combine that all together.
MS. CASKEY:
Right. Get it all synchronized. Yep.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 15-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Very good. Well, obviously we're here on the Go Hillsborough

investigation, which I'm sure you're well versed on given the last few
months. What was your... I guess since you just did come over here, so
really you're....
MS. CASKEY:
Right. Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
When did your involvement begin I guess?
MS. CASKEY:
Let me see. It was about a year ago. It was October, November-ish.

Sharon Calvert and Ken Roberts originally brought the... well, actually Is
should say Ken Roberts was the one that originally brought the questions
to the Clerk of the Circuit Court to Linda Goldstein and then in the meeting
with the Clerk, it was brought up and she asked me to take a look at it, at
which time Steve Hooper and I interviewed Ken Roberts and then he said
that Sharon Calvert was working with them and then she sent us like an
email I guess it was at that time. Asked about 8, 10 questions. Whatever
that was and based on that, we did a preliminary review to determine if
there was enough information to merit an audit.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What was their main complaint?
MS. CASKEY:
It's in the back of the report, but their main complaint was they just didn't
think that the, that this whole procurement should have went through the
CCNA process. And I think the biggest obstacle on that was that the didn't
understand what the CCNA process was. They keep trying to compare to
a regular procurement rather than a CCNA.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. CASKEY:
And that's where most the issues come up.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And particularly with this process in the selection of Parsons for what is
now known as the Go Hillsborough transportation initiative.
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah. At that point in time, Parsons had just been hired, so it was more of
why are we spending $900,000 on Parsons. But at that point in time there
wasn't a lot of effort, so a lot of the questions we have today are not the
same as what we had a year ago.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 15-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Got you. So when they made their questions known there, that was shortly
after Parsons was selected.
MS. CASKEY:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So prior to that, were you working for the county at that time?
MS. CASKEY:
Yes. For the Clerk's Office.
CPL. HOLLIS:
For the Clerk's Office. Okay.
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah. Yeah. And we had just... just an FYI... we had just completed an
audit, I want to say it was about a year prior to that we looked at the
CCNA process itself. So we had already compared the policy and
procedures to the activities to the statutes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. CASKEY:
So when Sharon and Ken came in, they wanted us to take a look at just
how this particular procurement for Go Hillsborough went through the
CCNA. So we didn't have to go back and redo a lot of the work. Okay?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Just from my understanding.
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So in January.... Why do I keep saying January? But anyway, May of

2011, in your initial assessment you mentioned where the Board of County
Commissioners began the procurement process May 31, 2011.
MS. CASKEY:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Public Works determined a need for professional miscellaneous

engineering services.
MS. CASKEY:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Was there a memo that was sent out for that? Because just by reading
this, it appears that the board gave approval, so I just wanted to make
sure that was....
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah. What does that say of 2011?
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 15-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
May 31, 2011.
MS. CASKEY:
2011. This binder is going to come in handy.
CPL. HOLLIS:
There you go. That's why you have it out here.
MS. CASKEY:
I do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MS. CASKEY:
Okay. So here's the memo.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So that was the memo that started that.
MS. CASKEY:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Now what would be the reason to use the CCNA? Is CCNA separate and
apart from just a standard procurement?
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah. It's two different processes. From what I understand the CCNA is
the more stringent or more difficult of the two processes and it takes years
in order to set it up. Scott Stromer will have of the information exactly how
they did it and why.... Because I really wasn't involved at that point in time,
so I can't give you those answers.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. No, that's fine. But your understanding it's a more detailed process
and there's more steps?
MS. CASKEY:
Oh, yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
To assure that everything's being handled fairly and proper.
MS. CASKEY:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So this begins. They do the 53 down to the 10. Parsons is, you know,
included in that 10 and signed to a 2-year contract in 2012.
MS. CASKEY:
Right. Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Which is then renewed in June of 2014.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 15-691857
MS. CASKEY:
'14. Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So then in August of 2014, there's a meeting with the PLG, the Policy
Leadership Group.
MS. CASKEY:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I guess at the time known as TED. Being that you were at the Clerk's
Office, were there times when you would go to these meetings, either that
meeting or the BOCC meeting?
MS. CASKEY:
No. Actually, I think I've only gone to one maybe two meetings of theirs.
I'm trying to think. I believe that I went... I can't say for sure, but I think I
was at the meeting when we first started the Go Hillsborough. It was like
Parsons Brinckerhoff started to do some work and then I was asked to
come in and just validate the work that they performed, which is those two
little memos and I know at that time I went before the committee, but I
don't know like if there was any other times, but that's the only meeting
that I recall.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So during that August meeting, so August 2014, you were working for....
MS. CASKEY:
For the Clerk of the Circuit Court. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So still working for the Clerk?
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'd just came on board.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Well, Mike Merrill was directed to select a firm with transportation
experience. Not a public relations firm.
MS. CASKEY:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
They were kind of specifics for that.
MS. CASKEY:
Right.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 15-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
And they moved forward and looked at the 10 that were already under
contract. And so that's I guess one of the issues that has been raised.
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is instead of, you know, doing the whole procurement again, they look at
the 10 that are already under contract.
MS. CASKEY:
Those 10. And understand it's not Mike Merrill that's making that decision.
That's John Lyons and his engineering staff and then we had a outsourced
engineer.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, correct.
MS. CASKEY:
Who actually made the decision of who to go with.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But Mike Merrill, they reported to Mike and Mike was the one that kind of
formed that team.
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah. They were like three levels down.
CPL. HOLLIS:
We've spoken to him, we've spoken to John.
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And Mike Williams.
MS. CASKEY:
Right. Right. Lucia and all them?
CPL. HOLLIS:
And Larry Scully. We've spoken to all them.
MS. CASKEY:
So you know them? Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And talked through that process.
MS. CASKEY:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But you know, Mike was the catalyst of forming this whole group and they
reported to him. These are kind of... this is who we recommend and then
he takes that before the board.
MS. CASKEY:
Right. Yes. He'd be the head of all those employees.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 15-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. Yes. Are you aware of any influences that were given to Mike as to
who to choose for that?
MS. CASKEY:
Not at all. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But back to one of the questions that's been raised is why not do
the whole procurement again to try to find somebody that fit this specific
scope as opposed to these two?
MS. CASKEY:
The specifics? Yeah. That's a question that's come up so many times.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MS. CASKEY:
And well, I wasn't a part of all the decisions, so mine's going to be all
hearsay, but everybody we talk to had said that it's the.... That basically
once you have your 10 selected then your under contract with those 10
you have to stay with those 10 because that's how the CCNA process
works. The other piece of it is there was a lot of.... So say they decided not
to go CCNA, which I believe they have to with the statutes the way that
they're written. But say they had gone outside of that, it would've added a
lot more time and effort. But why go outside if you already have the
contract with somebody that can do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MS. CASKEY:
It just doesn't make any sense.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So then ultimately Parsons was chosen.
MS. CASKEY:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And Beth Leytham has been a name that's been....
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah, it keeps popping up.
CPL. HOLLIS:
When you were at the Clerk's Office, did you ever hear of her or meet
her?
MS. CASKEY:
Not at all. I didn't know who Beth Leytham even was until all this started to
come aboard.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 15-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. CASKEY:
And I started seeing it in newspaper articles and I'm going who's Beth
Leytham? But you'll see it in here. Like who's Beth Leytham? Big ole
question mark. Now I know who she is.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Have you ever met her before?
MS. CASKEY:
No. Not at all.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Never had an occasion where you all worked together or...?
MS. CASKEY:
No. I have no knowledge ever at all.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I mean a lot of the questions that we've asked of other people, and
because you had come in towards the tail end there.
MS. CASKEY:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
There's really not a lot that you can provide. No offense, but you've,
you've....
MS. CASKEY:
No. Well, yeah. Because I wasn't involved till the very end.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Now given obviously where we're at now.
MS. CASKEY:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you still... do you believe that the Direct Select method by looking at
the 10 that were already under contract was still the best method to use?
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah. I can't say it's the best method because I'm not a procurement
expert, but I can say I found no reason to believe that it wasn't a good
decision to be made.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Are you aware of any ethics issues that were involved in the decision
making?
MS. CASKEY:
No. Not at all.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Any commissioners that may have contacted Mike or John Lyons or Mike
Williams or had...?
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 15-691857
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah. We were doing the projects, we ask like some certain questions
about influence and stuff, but we weren't looking for fraud so we didn't ask
the questions of what happened behind the scenes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MS. CASKEY:
So that I don't know of. I can say from all the county chatter and being in
the meetings with everybody, everyone's denying that there's any kind of
influence and you know, and from an audit perspective, you know we...
because this is something that's been banging around now for a couple
months, but from an auditor perspective, I keep looking. I'm like even
she... say the newspapers are right and there's all this influence, you still
have an entire board that voted on it and... which is what, 7 people plus
you have the 3... I think it's the city of Tampa, city.... And then there's two
other city mayors or whatever.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MS. CASKEY:
And then you have the... another gentleman down there.
CPL. HOLLIS:
The HART director.
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah, the HART director. So you'd have that level, plus you have the level
of the engineering that was John Lyons plus his engineering staff plus the
engineer that were under contract. So to have influence, it would have to
be a lot of influence of a lot of people to get all the dots to go in the right
row and to get those connected and we just, from an audit perspective we
keep looking. We just don't see it. Just don't see how it can happen. I
mean I'm not saying it didn't happen because I've been in government 20
years. Things happen. But we're not connecting those dots from an audit
perspective.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because there were so many eyes that were involved in the decision
making?
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah. Exactly. And they knew that this was going to be high publicity going
into it from everything I've heard and they tried to do everything the best
they could.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you think they took extra steps to make sure that the procurement or
the processes that they used were followed?
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 15-691857
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah. From what I understand from the very beginning; again this was just
conversations I've had, is that they knew it was going to be a lot of
controversy so they kept the County Attorney's Office involved quite a bit
into that with a lot of the decisions and a lot of the questions that were
made. So you know, I think that that involvement itself showed that they
were trying to do the right thing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Thank you, ma'am. If they have any questions, is that okay with
you?
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah. Sure. We're good? Good.
DET. CLARK:
You produced the, I think it was the 94 page audit that you....
MS. CASKEY:
The preliminary audit. Yes.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. CASKEY:
Preliminary review for an audit.
DET. CLARK:
How many... is that normal to do if someone makes a complaint like the

Calvert complaint?
MS. CASKEY:
Well, again, I've only been here 3 years. For me it would be normal. I'm
coming from another county.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. CASKEY:
It would be very normal for me if I think it's something like this it's going to
be really high publicity. Because understand, the report itself is actually
one and half pages. Everything else is just attachments. So when you look
at 94 pages, understand that Sharon Calvert kept saying in her questions
I've got that here if you guys want to take a look at it. That you know, I've
asked for these documents. I can't get it. Who has this? Who has that?
Why can't I get it? She kept going Why can't I?... So I said, you know
what? We'll just provide it. If that's what she wants, here it is. Because
otherwise what was going to happen she was going to keep coming back
and asking for stuff, so we just gave it to her, but the report itself only
really that one page or page and half document.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 15-691857
DET. CLARK:
Okay. So again, from the outside if you're looking at a 94-page document,
the next question would be cost.
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah.
DET. CLARK:
You know, how much would it cost for an audit like that or...?
MS. CASKEY:
To do this?
DET. CLARK:
Yeah. Because I think there was mention of cost of an audit if you guys
had to do another one.
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah. If we would have actually... and understand it's not an audit,

because I know everyone keeps calling it an audit... you've called it an
audit.
DET. CLARK:
A preliminary....
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah. The preliminary review, which I know in the real world people think
that that's a lot, but for us auditors that was so not an audit.
DET. CLARK:
Well...
MS. CASKEY:
But we let people call it an audit only because it's just easier.
CPL. HOLLIS:
That's the term being thrown around...
MS. CASKEY:
But being I'm being taped I wanted to explain. That is not an audit.
DET. CLARK:
Okay.
MS. CASKEY:
But yet for us, Steve Hooper downstairs would have like how many hours,
but I'm pretty sure that came in less than 100 hours that whole thing
because we didn't have to go back and again tie together the three pieces
of a triangle, which was the statute with the process, you know, the
procurement process and procedures and then to the general activities.
We only had to look at those general activities and we already had the
spreadsheet set up of how to test it, which is in that report. I think you
guys have it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. Yes, it is.
- 12 -
For: 4602
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 15-691857
MS. CASKEY:
So we didn't have to go back and recreate the wheel. Basically, what we
had to do is collect the data and then validate that they sell the process.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. CASKEY:
You know, and again at that time, it was more... Sharon was asking one of
the questions of where's the documentation? Who do I ask for all this
stuff? She really at that time wasn't looking for fraud. That came up
months and months later. And I think that.... And understand too when she
was asking those questions, I think at that time I think the actual
expenditures was like $50,000 maybe and then it was going to the board
for the second or third time. It was close to half a million. And then the
$900,000 that she talks... well she talks about a million, but the $900,000
that was just went into the meeting with the committee where they said
they thought it would be about a million, $900,000 to a million. But that
didn't even take place yet, so there really wasn't any Parsons activity at
that point in time. So she wasn't looking at fraud or anything at that point.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, in the newspaper, the news reporter, Noah Pransky from Channel 10
is the one that brought it out I think some of that.
MS. CASKEY:
Oh, yeah. Oh, this has been stirred so much. Yeah, when you look at the
original question... and that's what this is. This is all like newspaper, but if
you look at it in chronological order, it's so different than looking at it from
the back end. And that's what these two binders... the binder and the
folder are because these when you read it in the direction it was... the
activities, it makes perfect sense. But poking at it from just here and there,
it's not as clear, you know.
DET. CLARK:
And you mentioned earlier, you said that follow this statute. Just for
clarification, which statute are you talking about? 287?
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah. The ones that... yeah, those are the ones that we have actually in
that report we'll have the statues. Yeah. Yeah.
DET. CLARK:
Okay.
MS. CASKEY:
And you guys are aware of the PowerPoint presentation that's got Stromer
and I put together?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes, it was provided to us. Yes. Yes we've got that.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 15-691857
MS. CASKEY:
Okay. Yeah. Because that has a lot of the exactly where you find what into
it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. Yeah, it was explained very well.
MS. CASKEY:
Okay. Great.
CPL. HOLLIS:
We have a lot of documentation.
MS. CASKEY:
Okay. Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
We're still diving through it.
MS. CASKEY:
Putting all the pieces together.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MS. CASKEY:
And you guys have like a binder like this with everything in
chronological...?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Quite a few.
MS. CASKEY:
Yeah. This will probably deal with everything (indiscernible). Always buried
in paperwork.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Ma'am, if there's an occasion where we would need to speak with you

again, is that okay?
MS. CASKEY:
Oh, absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I don't think we have any more questions. I'll go ahead and stop the
recording. It's 10:30 a.m.
There's a little war room back in our office.
End of interview.
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For: 4602
Page 725 of 1954



Attachment Description: RICK LOTT INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:
For: 4602

2015-691857
Corporal Charles Hollis, ABN 5603, interviews Rick A. Lott, Mayor of Plant City.
Also present is Detective Trent Clark, ABN 173949.
CPL. HOLLIS:
interview is being conducted in reference to the GO Hillsborough
investigation by the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office. That case
number is 15-691857. This interview is being conducted in Plant City Hall
at 302 Reynolds Street and sir, would you state your full name, please?
MAYOR LOTT:
Rick Allen Lott.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And you're the mayor of Plant City, sir?
MAYOR LOTT:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MAYOR LOTT:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MAYOR LOTT:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. Also present.
DET. CLARK:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Mr. Mayor, would you raise your right hand, sir? Do you swear and affirm
the information you'll provide today is the truth, the whole truth, and
MAYOR LOTT:
I do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. And sir, just how long have you been mayor of Plant City?
Page 726 of 1954


SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
Re: Interview of Rick A. Lott
MAYOR LOTT:
Well, I've been on the city commission for 12 years and I'm now
completing my fifth one year term as mayor.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And obviously, we're here about the Go Hillsborough investigation.

You're part of the PLG, Policy Leadership Group or the TED Group?
MAYOR LOTT:
The TED Group. Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And when did you become involved in that, sir?
MAYOR LOTT:
I don't remember. I think at the inception.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So at the beginning, which was back in 2013 I believe.
MAYOR LOTT:
I guess. I couldn't tell you that date
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And what was the purpose of that group coming together?
MAYOR LOTT:
Well, the County Commission brought the group together as a... what it
says; Transportation for Economic Development, you know, to make
sure.... To look at a way to improving the transportation needs for
economic development is what it's intention.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And not just Hillsborough County itself, but the municipalities within the
county as well?
MAYOR LOTT:
Well, all of Hillsborough County. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes, sir. And how many times would you all meet? Was it once a month,
once a week?
MAYOR LOTT:
There were times it was once a month and there's... I don't think we've
had a meeting in the last 3 or 4 months right now. So I mean it's a bit
sporadic.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MAYOR LOTT:
More so in the beginning than it has lately.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And was the main... because I understand there was tax
referendum attempt in 2010 to raise sales tax to help pay for
transportation needs.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MAYOR LOTT:
But this group had nothing to do with that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
This wasn't brought on to try to I guess pick up that referendum and

attempt it again?
MAYOR LOTT:
That's not what my intention was.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. What was your intention for the...?
MAYOR LOTT:
When this was brought together by Commissioner Beckner, it was simply

to.... When certain projects comes to an area, there's typically
transportation issues. Okay? Transportation expenses and so his concept
at the time was to create TEDs that would look at improving transportation
issues in areas that had an opportunity to be developed to create jobs.
That was the original intent of TEDs.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MAYOR LOTT:
You know?
CPL. HOLLIS:
And that was Commissioner Beckner? You said....
MAYOR LOTT:
No, no, no. Not Beckner. Oh my God. Can't think of his name right now.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Mike Merrill. Was it the County Administrator?
MAYOR LOTT:
No, no. It was a county commissioner.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MAYOR LOTT:
Not Higginbotham. Not Kevin. Not....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Victor Crist. Hagan.
MAYOR LOTT:
Hagan.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Hagan. Ken Hagan?
MAYOR LOTT:
Hagan.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So we kind of jump forward to 2014. You all meet in August and
eventually have Mike Merrill move forward with hiring a private
engineering firm or a firm with transportation experience. Do you
remember that meeting?
MAYOR LOTT:
I remember a little bit of it. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MAYOR LOTT:
Go ahead.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Just what was your understanding of moving forward with getting

somebody from the outside?
MAYOR LOTT:
That the...Mike Merrill and the County Commission were either at that
meeting or one after that, was looking at hiring an outside firm to hold the
charrettes and the public engagements and so they brought a
recommendation to us.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MAYOR LOTT:
And they just wanted to make sure that we were okay with it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you have any influence on who they recommended?
MAYOR LOTT:
No. Not at all.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So ultimately, Parsons Brinckerhoff was chosen as the company.
MAYOR LOTT:
Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you have any influence on them being chosen?
MAYOR LOTT:
No. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Were you influenced to chose them essentially? I mean, because the

board approved that.
MAYOR LOTT:
I think we were just approving their decision. We're just agreeing with their
decision was that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MAYOR LOTT:
The board didn't have any money or no budget, so we didn't have the
authority to approve anyone. It had to be the County Commission
ultimately approved it. So they were just, I think as being respectful to the
committee, say this is who we're hiring. Are you guys okay with it, which
everyone was.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you have any reservations against...?
MAYOR LOTT:
No. I had no problem with it. I thought it was.... I was impressed that the
county was going to make that type of an investment to seek public
opinion.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Beth Leytham is a name that's been passed on during this

investigation as having possibly having influence on Parsons being
brought on and ultimately she was hired as a subcontractor. Do you know
Beth Leytham?
MAYOR LOTT:
I don't think I do. If I do, I don't remember meeting her or knowing her in
anyway.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MAYOR LOTT:
You know?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did she ever contact you?
MAYOR LOTT:
No. I've never... I don't.... She's never contacted me. I've never contacted
her. But I mean, I'm at a lot of events. I could've run into her, but if I have, I
don't recall.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MAYOR LOTT:
Okay?
CPL. HOLLIS:
And did she have any influence on you as far as Parsons being brought
on as the...?
MAYOR LOTT:
Not at all. Not at all.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MAYOR LOTT:
I had no say so in the selection of Parsons.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Are you aware of any influence that she may have had?
MAYOR LOTT:
No. Not at all. I don't even... was she attending our meetings? I didn't even
know she was attending our meetings.
CPL. HOLLIS:
She was at some. Yes.
MAYOR LOTT:
She was at some? Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. Are you aware of any ethical issues involved in this process?
MAYOR LOTT:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Of choosing of Parsons or even the entire Go Hillsborough initiative?
MAYOR LOTT:
None. None.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright, sir. I don't think I have any questions. You have anything?
DET. CLARK:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Anything else you'd like to say, sir?
MAYOR LOTT:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I'll stop the interview. It's 9:18 a.m.
End of interview.
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For: 4602
Page 732 of 1954



Attachment Description: SANDRA MURMAN #1 INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:

2015-691857
Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222593, interview Sandra Murman, County
Commissioner
CPL. HOLLIS:
Today is Wednesday, December 16, 2015. The time is

1:05 p.m. This is Corporal Charles Hollis, ABN 5603. This interview is
being conducted today in reference to the Go Hillsborough investigation.
That case number is 15-691857. Currently downtown at the county
building with Commissioner Murman in her office. Also present for the
interview....
DET. PORTALATIN:
DET. CLARK:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. FLETCHER:
And sir?
Chip Fletcher, Hillsborough County Attorney.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And ma'am?
MS. MURMAN:
Commissioner Sandy Murman.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And Commissioner Murman, you're aware our

conversation is being recorded?
MS. MURMAN:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
For: 4602
MS. MURMAN:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. Would you raise your right hand, please?

Do you swear or affirm the information you'll provide today will be the
MS. MURMAN:
Yes.
Page 733 of 1954


SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
Re: Interview of Sandra Murman
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. And just by way of introduction, how long

have you been a county commissioner?
MS. MURMAN:
Since November of 2010.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay. 2010? And who did you replace?

I replaced Rose Ferlita.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Very good. And I know you've been chair and

now...
MS. MURMAN:
I was... well, I wasn't in.... I was just a regular commissioner my first year,
then I was vice chair the next three years and then chairman my fifth year.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
And we're heading into my sixth year.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Got you. And I guess just kind of explain what is the

chairperson do? Do they kind of just orchestrate the meeting, kind of...
you're kind of the head person?
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah. Like the orchestra conductor. You call on, you know, you recognize
the other commissioners and we'll speak on items. We do not set
agendas. That's all done by staff. No... any commissioner, not just
chairman, can put any item on the agenda they want to have brought up
on the agenda and we attend more functions as chairman. Like you're on
the Economic Development Cooperation, you're the chair of the Tourist
Development Council, and you just get invited to speak. Like you're the
figurehead for the commission like the mayor is for the city.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Got you. Okay. When you were brought on as a

commissioner, was there any kind of I guess training? Well, this wasn't
your first time in public office?
MS. MURMAN:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
You came from legislature.

Eight years in legislature.
-2-
For: 4602
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Up in Tallahassee.
MS. MURMAN:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And what was your... were you part of any

boards up there or any chairperson of anything up there?
MS. MURMAN:
Oh yeah. Quite a bit.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Can you just provide....
MS. MURMAN:
Okay. If I can remember everything. Because I was very involved. I was

speaker pro tem under speaker Tom Feeney. I was of appropriations for 2
years. I was chair of Health and Human Service Appropriations for 4 years
and chair of the Children and Families Committee, Juvenile Justice. I was
chair of a lot of different things. We had select committees I was chair of;
select committee on some of the child abuse stuff that we had. Nursing
home reform. Different things.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So your involvement in the political arena has

been for quite some time.
MS. MURMAN:
Yes. I did take that 6 year break.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
Because I termed out in 2004 and I did some things here in the
community as I do now.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Very good. When you were brought on in the

county as a county commissioner, was there any kind of training that you
went through to make sure you were up-to-date on ethical laws, Sunshine,
public records, and that sort of thing?
MS. MURMAN:
We did have something. You weren't here yet.
MR. FLETCHER:
MS. MURMAN:
I was not here yet.

Yes, we did. I actually think there's a book down there. There's an
orientation that we had as a commissioner and the County Attorney's
Office was represented. Mary Helen Ferris did it. You know, it was what? 5
-3-
For: 4602
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
years ago, so I'm trying to remember. But I mean, yes, that's part of the
training.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
The orientation process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is there an annual retraining just to make sure you're

up to speed on all applicable...?
MS. MURMAN:
We have state mandated; the legislature decided they wanted all folks...
they don't have to do it, but we do. We have a mandated 4-hour ethics
training we have to do. In fact, I need to do mine this week or I have to
have it done by midnight December 31st.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay. And is that online, in person?

Online.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
You can do it in person through the Association of Counties, but I do mine
online.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
And now the commission just recently changed it. We're going to 8 hours?
MR. FLETCHER:
Our office developed a syllabus to... I believe we settled on 6 hours.
MS. MURMAN:
6 hours.
MR. FLETCHER:
MS. MURMAN:
I need to double check the agenda item.

We're going to a more aggressive ethics training that will probably replace
this 4 hours.
MR. FLETCHER:
MS. MURMAN:
It could. Ms. Ferris....

It could or be in addition too.
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. FLETCHER:
In addition to. Ms. Ferris is certified to do training for
the Ethics Commission.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. FLETCHER:
So to the extent that it's approved the Ethics Commission it could

(indiscernible) or the state training or it could be in addition to depending
on their approval.
MS. MURMAN:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Very good. Well and aside from ethics training

as far as public records, Sunshine law, is there any kind of training or is a
lot of it on the job kind of as you go? Even though you came from
Tallahassee, I understand things may have been a little different.
MS. MURMAN:
They're very different.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
Because it is not... I mean we don't have Sunshine in the state legislature,
I mean you can talk to each other. So... and that's the first thing I think was
instructed on when I started as commissioner so I fully understood it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay. Do you instructed you or was that just hey...?

Mary Helen did the ethics.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Through the legal...
MS. MURMAN:
I mean it was part of that board orientation.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you feel you have a good understanding as

far as public records and what you need to preserve and what things you
have to do.
MS. MURMAN:
Absolutely. Absolutely I do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And even... it doesn't matter the device that it

may be on, whether that's county owned or privately owned, it's the matter
of what the content is as far as what needs to be saved.
-5-
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MS. MURMAN:
Exactly. And I think it's all emails. You know, they're more devices have
come about over the years.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MS. MURMAN:
Especially since I was elected in 2010, so you know, I think everybody's

learning, you know, as new devices come on board what the rules are.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And obviously with this investigation and all the

attention that's been made.
MS. MURMAN:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
As far as public records, so there's been probably

some reeducating that's been going on?
MS. MURMAN:
Mary Helen has done a good job to reeducate us. Especially, as it pertains
to text messages because I know specifically... I think it was about a year
ago after the case in Orlando.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MS. MURMAN:
She made sure... she wanted to make sure that we were all aware that
text messages were considered public record if you did business.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So prior to that case was your understanding that

they weren't subject to public record?
MS. MURMAN:
No. No. No. But she just wanted to make sure that we kept them and that
they weren't... you know.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So before all that happened, what was your

manner of maintaining records of text messaging. How did you preserve
those?
MS. MURMAN:
Well, my... you mean what text messages?
CPL. HOLLIS:
If you were to receive any text message that would be

considered county business?
MS. MURMAN:
You mean like from my husband or...?
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
No, ma'am. That would be considered public record.
Oh, for business.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Correct.
For business.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MS. MURMAN:
I really, you know, I don't know. I am really... I mean I would keep... I kept
them I have to say before Mary Helen told us. I really became much more
aware that we had to keep text messages that were business related. So
that's about as far as I can say on that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Well, how would you do that? And just from

talking with other commissioners and other people that have to do that,
you know, they would either save a picture they downloaded. They'd
send... take a picture, send an email. How would you go about doing that?
MS. MURMAN:
Well, we didn't have software on our computers, so we would have to

save them or take a picture or something like that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And maybe send it to your staff to preserve it or

you would forward...?
MS. MURMAN:
I give my phone to my staff guy now once a week.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
And I have him go through all my text messages and he makes copies of
ones that are business related.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. In talking to some other commissioners, some

of the things they would do is just they'd keep it on their phone, but then
the question would be what happens if you lose the phone or if it gets
destroyed.
MS. MURMAN:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You know, accidentally falls in the water or something,

what's the backup? So have you thought about a backup plan?
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MS. MURMAN:
I have not.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
This is... we're waiting to get software on our computers because that
would definitely make it easier for us and for our staff.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Are there... and just kind of going back and we

kind of get to this in a little bit. Are there any text messages that you may
have deleted unknowingly, meaning that you needed to save them and
didn't realize it?
MS. MURMAN:
Right. Could be.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
I mean my phone was set up to automatically roll out text messages, it
rolled them.... Or I guess not delete them... well, they were deleted. They
would... every two weeks.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
And so I had to go back to Verizon and you know, get them to do a hard
reset because... so that didn't happen any more. That was why, you know,
when I was looking for text messages I had to go like to Mike Merrill. He
had kept them and so we could consolidate.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And we'll get to that in just a minute. What is

your preferred method of communication generally?
MS. MURMAN:
Phone.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Would that be through speaking on the phone

or text messages?
MS. MURMAN:
No. Phone.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Just...
Talking to somebody.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Just talking on the phone.
MS. MURMAN:
Absolutely. I've done a lot of work in the community, raised a lot of money
for different non-profits. You do not get any results by text message. You
have to talk to somebody personally on the phone.
CPL. HOLLIS:
It's definitely more intimate than a text message.
MS. MURMAN:
Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So since you started in 2010, was that before

or after the first referendum attempt?
MS. MURMAN:
After.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So you weren't involved in any of that?
MS. MURMAN:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So then what was your involvement, I guess, in 2013

when the TED Group, which is now known as the PLG was formed?
MS. MURMAN:
Well, I.... To give you a little history. I had... Les Miller and I co-chair the
committee... what was the name of that committee? You know the one....
MR. FLETCHER:
Economic Prosperity?
MS. MURMAN:
The Economic Prosperity Committee. And that information was then

going to be sent to the Policy Leadership Group, which is what they called
themselves which they would use to develop, you know, transportation
plans. And so what you're asking is 2013, what did I...?
CPL. HOLLIS:
What was your involvement, because that's what I

understand is when the TED Group was formed where the county
commissioners, the 3 mayors, and the HART director...?
MS. MURMAN:
Oh, I was just a member of the group.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
I wasn't chairman of anything or....
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CPL. HOLLIS:
So you had no involvement or input as to who would
be involved in it or anything like that?
MS. MURMAN:
I mean I think the county commission decided we wanted the mayors;

anybody that was elected that was accountable to the voters would be on
the Policy Leadership Group.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
That's the mayors and 7 commissioners.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Was the purpose of the PLG or the TED Group

meeting solely for the referendum attempt that may come about here?
MS. MURMAN:
In my opinion the sole purpose was to develop a transportation plan. It

was... if that lead to... I mean, there was not a talk of a referendum for
quite some time.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Okay. So it was mainly just a planning session;

getting facts together, and...?
MS. MURMAN:
That was my complete understanding from the beginning.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did you have a vision at that time or as you went

through what kind of plan you wanted to I guess incorporate?
MS. MURMAN:
Well, I wanted a plan that, you know, to.... I have a very diverse district. I
go from Ruskin 674 up to County Line Road in... well, Pasco/Hillsborough
line and you know, we need a lot of stuff in my district, so I was hoping.... I
went into it hoping that we would get a lot of stuff that needed to get done
in my district. I mean that was my goal and I thought myself sitting there
was to make sure that... and I talked a lot with my constituents... that their
lists, their wants and desires would go into the plan.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Very good. So in 2014, that's kind of where a

lot of focus has been on this August 2014 meeting. If you remember that
one? That's the one that as a group you all directed Mike Merrill to go
ahead and go forward selecting a private firm to assist in the
transportation engagement process.
MS. MURMAN:
We.... yes, we did.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
So....
That was... that came from... yeah, that came from the county
commissioners. Absolutely. I think Mark Sharpe was chairing the
commission then. Wasn't he?
MR. FLETCHER:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
We did.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
I'm not sure.

Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, Mark Sharpe was part of the process and

then....
MS. MURMAN:
He was right in the beginning of it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. And then his term was winding down and I

think he went out just before the end.
MS. MURMAN:
He did.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So had there been discussions... and even in reading

the transcripts, it's apparent there had to have been some knowledge. It
wasn't just Mike Merrill brought this idea and we're going to engage
somebody on the outside. It appears there had been some discussions
beforehand of kind of a direction to go, so had you had discussions with
Mike or had you kind of formed some kind of ideas as what needed to
happen at this particular meeting?
MS. MURMAN:
No. I had not. You know, I knew that they were going to use this process,
the CCNA process. I think we hadn't had a full... but we did not have a full
discussion at the board about that process before the people were
chosen, the recommended vendor was brought to us and that's when we
kind of discussed it after that point.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But prior to the August 12th meeting, had you had any
discussions with Mike?
MS. MURMAN:
No.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
When you mentioned the CCNA, so were you aware

that was the process that was going to be had prior to the August 12th?
MS. MURMAN:
I did not know he was going to do that when we authorized him to go get
somebody.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
I think they... I just can't really remember when they chose... when they
brought the CCNA process. I think when they actually brought their
recommendation is when they told us about how they chose it and they
gave us the information about using the CCNA process. Is that right? I
think so.
MR. FLETCHER:
I don't have a specific recollection.
MS. MURMAN:
I know. I can't... that's the best I can recollect.
CPL. HOLLIS:
That's fine. I mean you had the August meeting and

then the October 21st meeting was when Parsons was presented to you
as a board, but there is a memo that Mike Merrill drafted I believe October
5th, which kind of breaks down everything.
MS. MURMAN:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And then he reiterates that during the meeting itself

all the talking points are the CCNA.
MS. MURMAN:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So in looking at the transcript.... Grab this. Okay. So

obviously somebody's that's been a part of this investigation, to release
some focus, has been is Beth Leytham.
MS. MURMAN:
Uh-huh.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So I just want to kind of ask you some questions

about her.
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
meet her?
MS. MURMAN:
In 1998.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay. How did you all meet?

She... I was in the House of Representatives. She was... lived in Seminole
Heights. That was in my district. And I think, I can't remember... she was
working for somebody. It wasn't the chamber yet, it was somebody else
and she helped me walk door to door up in the neighborhood and all that
kind of stuff.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay. Was this during an election process?

Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay. So she was just part of that?

Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Very good. And that was back in 1998?

Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
And your relationship with her. When did you first
Okay. And how would you describe your relationship?

Friendly. Not particularly close, but I mean we were friends.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So during the 2014 time frame were you all friends

then?
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah. I mean she seemed to be... I think she tried to communicate with
me more. I left vice chair probably seemed to be coming in as chair, so I
think she did try to communicate with me a lot more.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I understand talking with Ms. Garsys that you

all workout at the same barre, which is a gym.
MS. MURMAN:
Oh, Barre Fitness?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
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MS. MURMAN:
I've been going there since 2012 and then I ran into Lucia at a class. That
was probably a couple of years later and then all of the sudden Beth
shows up. So I don't really know any more than that. I mean it's an
exercise class. You don't really chitchat or anything.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Well, as being friends with her, were there

times when you all would just go out for dinner, for drinks? Socializing?
Anything like that?
MS. MURMAN:
No. No. Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So not that kinda friends?
MS. MURMAN:
I mean we would go have coffee sometimes after exercise, but it wasn't

anything more than just friendly.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. In your communications, would you all talk

about county business and things like that?
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah. I mean things would come up. Definitely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And obviously she's under contract with

Parsons.
MS. MURMAN:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Before the Go Hillsborough, what came to be known

as Go Hillsborough, were you aware of any contract she was under with
Parsons Brinckerhoff prior to that?
MS. MURMAN:
Yes. I knew that they had... I knew that she was consulting with them for
quite a bit of time. It was way before all this happened; the PLG and
Parsons getting the contract. I mean she was under contract with them
before.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Was that information that she provided to you

or you found out another way?
MS. MURMAN:
I think she invited me to lunch with George periodically. I think maybe

once or twice we had lunch at the Tampa Club, so I knew she worked for
him at that point.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
You just drew that conclusion?
MS. MURMAN:
Yes. She never revealed that to me, but I just drew that conclusion.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Okay. So it's possible that she wasn't actually

working for him, but that she was just inviting you to lunch with George
Walton who's with Parsons and you just assumed that she was working for
them?
MS. MURMAN:
Could be. Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay. But she never came out....

I never saw a contract or anything that she had with them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
I mean she also did work for Newland Homes and I just... I mean,
because she kind of bragged about all the money she made all the time,
so I figured she was under contract with these people.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay. Okay.
I mean it is what it is.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. Well, I mean how would you... what does she

do for a living?
MS. MURMAN:
She's a paid consultant.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Paid consultant?
MS. MURMAN:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And there's been a lot of talk about lobbying. Is she a

lobbyist? Would you describe her as a lobbyist?
MS. MURMAN:
I definitely think she lobbies.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MS. MURMAN:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Has she ever lobbied you for any kind of work?
MS. MURMAN:
Well, I mean what specific work are you talking..?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, just anything? I mean, yes, she represents

Parsons, so has she come to you and...?
MS. MURMAN:
You mean specific to Parsons?
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Yes.
Oh. I mean, I think clearly she was acting on behalf of her client, that
yeah, she would like Parsons to get work. I remember those lunches and
this is before the PLG, you know, they were very interested in doing work
with the county. Clearly, that was part of the agenda for the lunch.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So were there... so this is before though the

PLG...
MS. MURMAN:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Was even a meeting, a group?
MS. MURMAN:
But you understand I was chairing, co-chairing with Les Miller on that
Economic Prosperity Committee and everybody kind of understood that
that was going to be a foundation of information for what we got, did into
the PLG group.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
Because we discussed land use. We discussed where economic

development would occur, so we could decide, you know, routes and how
things would connect.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But did she specifically... did she specifically

come out and say, you know, Parsons needs to be hired for a particular
project?
MS. MURMAN:
No.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. What about did she come to you on behalf of
Parsons for what came to be known as Go Hillsborough?
MS. MURMAN:
I remember in a phone call, I do remember at least once she said she

would like Parsons to get the contract for the....
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
The PLG, the TED? The Go....

The TED. The Go Hillsborough.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
I mean Go Hillsborough came about....

They hadn't really named it yet.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Right.
So it was called TED.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So that was a phone conversation you had with

her?
MS. MURMAN:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Where she said she would like Parsons to get it?

Yeah. I mean it was pretty clear. I mean, I knew she worked for them, so I
mean I just thought that was pretty normal and natural for her to say that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. What was the discussion going on at that time if

you remember?
MS. MURMAN:
That's about the gist of it. You know, I think she just.... Beth... I mean if
you've had a chance to meet her yet... she's very communicative. I mean
like I could find in a whole month maybe 42 times where she's tried to call
me. You know, she's like... when she is on something, she'll just stay on it
and I mean, she's aggressive and she gets results. But I mean clearly I
think she was promoting Parsons.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So aside from that one conversation that she

would like to see Parsons get it....
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MS. MURMAN:
And it probably happened more than once, but I just, you know, if you're
going to ask me to remember I am 65 years old.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, I know we're talking....
MS. MURMAN:
I am going to play the age thing because I have a hard time remembering
back that far.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. No problem. Do you know if that was during the

time where a decision was to be made on who...? Because obviously,
August 12th, Mike Merrill's been directed. That process happened.
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah. It was during the summer. I mean, and it was, I mean.... But this is
all skeptical, so I'm not just going to say that, but I mean she did.... I mean
she was promoting Parsons. I mean, I think every time she ever called me
about anything she would say something.
CPL. HOLLIS:
About Parsons?
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Now did you take that information and try to influence

any decision being made?
MS. MURMAN:
No. Mm-hmm. No. I mean I knew about them. They had done the InVision
work. I mean they had done successful projects here, so I knew about
them, but I didn't know... I wouldn't have promoted them because the staff
had not come back to us yet with their recommendation or their top three.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But knowing that Mike Merrill was going to be

kind of the decision maker or provide the recommendation, did you
contact Mike to give him your opinion on who should be brought on or who
should not be?
MS. MURMAN:
I mean, I think I had heard that they had narrowed it down to 3 people. I
didn't know one of them. HDR was one and then Parsons was one. Now I
heard this I think from John Lyons. So.... Excuse me. HDR I had some
negative feelings about.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
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MS. MURMAN:
It's well noted in all newspaper articles because what they did at Tampa
Bay Water and you know, I wasn't very positive about them. I would not....
But I just, I think I said in the text message to Mike that I couldn't support
HDR. I didn't know the other one, but I didn't say yea or nay about
Parsons. I mean I just told him my feelings about HDR.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Now if you had told Mike hey, Parsons, I think

you need to bring them on, is that something as a commissioner you
should be doing?
MS. MURMAN:
I think all the commissioners have a relationship with Mike and we

generally will tell him how we feel about something. I mean wouldn't you
say that Chip? I mean we generally tell Mike, like if we're sitting here in
our briefing. Because we have briefings before all of our commission
meetings.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MS. MURMAN:
And we go through the items. If there's a controversial item, I mean I might

say you know where I stand on that issue.
MR. FLETCHER:
As part of your briefings you might share your

professional opinions, but you wouldn't direct him to do something specific
with a vendor.
MS. MURMAN:
No. I don't direct him to do anything, but I might share my opinion.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But essentially you are Mike's boss.
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So your opinion probably weighs a lot more than just

somebody off the street saying hey, here's my opinion on who you should
bring on.
MS. MURMAN:
I don't know how he handles those opinions. I really don't.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, do you feel that he... I mean he does a good job

at what he does and he's able to...? Obviously, he's trying to please his
bosses, but he still has a job to do to pick the best company for a
particular project.
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MS. MURMAN:
Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
And there's a good example of it right now because he knows how I feel
about the half cent sales tax and he is dead set for it, so you know, that
kind of.... But he knows that. But I don't coerce him. He just knows my
opinion.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And that's.... Is that fair to say that's what you

were sharing with him in that text message where you say Mike, I'm
asking you not to pick HDR?
MS. MURMAN:
Oh, I didn't say.... I can't.... I think what I said exactly was I'm not in favor
of HDR.
MR. FLETCHER:
If the corporal has the text messages that'd be better.
MS. MURMAN:
If you have the exact it would help.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. This is the records we got from Mike Merrill. So

this particular one. Here. Friday, August 22, 2014.
MS. MURMAN:
Oh. Mike, I'm asking you not to pick HDR. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What they did with Tampa Bay Water was.... I'm sorry.
It was awful and almost criminal what they did at Tampa Bay Water...
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
And the reservoir. My thoughts.

Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
So is that...?
My opinion.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
That's your opinion.

Mm-hmm.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And since we're on the text messages, there's
one up here from August 15th of 2014.
MS. MURMAN:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So we're looking at the timeline, so August 12th is the

meeting. You all are directing Mike as a board, a group to select
somebody and then he's in the decision making process. So you say hi,
Mike. I read the editorial and think it was very disappointing. There was a
great deal of anger and criticism of us. Is this talking about the
transportation initiative? These... whatever these editorials... or the
editorial?
MS. MURMAN:
I'd have to go back to the newspaper...
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
And you need to get the transportation consultant on board. Get.... Oh.
They were criticizing Scully. Now I remember.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Oh, Larry Scully?

Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, in the editorial.
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And you just mentioned, yeah, get the

communications team in place ASAP. There should be no press releases
until we get that done. And you specifically mentioned Parsons
Brinckerhoff, AECOM, or any other will get the result we need.
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah. I still... I mean hadn't, wasn't forcing him to do anything in that

regard.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
But there were several.... This is before he had announced his 3
selections, so I didn't know... I didn't even know the 9 people in the mix.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MS. MURMAN:
Except for Parsons. I knew HDR was in there. I knew AECOM was in
there.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. One of the things in looking at the transcript

and kind of how it all kind of unfolded, we also received some email
communication that you had with Ms. Leytham and she sent you an
outline, like a transportation outline. I'll show it to you here.
MS. MURMAN:
(Indiscernible)
CPL. HOLLIS:
And it was actually dated.... It looked like it was sent

to you right before the PLG meeting on the 12th.
MS. MURMAN:
August 12th?
August the 12th of 2014. So yeah, from Beth Leytham
CPL. HOLLIS:
to you and....
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Anyway. So the outline really looks like a lot of work

went into this. Was this anything you requested from her?
MS. MURMAN:
No. I don't even remember seeing this, but I did not request it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
I did do... I was doing a lot of speeches, all of us were. We were.... You
know, because we go out to community groups and I know because she
does a lot of communications. You know, we might ask her for some
talking points, but I didn't.... No. This is not talking points. This is a plan.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MS. MURMAN:
So....
CPL. HOLLIS:
And in the transcript you kind of mention a few things

and it gives us the appearance that maybe you had reviewed this and you
were kind of using it to help you through the meeting.
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MS. MURMAN:
Well, I reviewed it, but it's.... I think it's just the outline of how she was
going to conduct the communications piece for Parsons. That's what it
looks like.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But this is on the 12th, so before Parsons is even

selected or even being mentioned.
MS. MURMAN:
Mm-hmm. But I.... Yeah. I don't... I mean really don't recall this too much.
Let me look at it again. This... you know what this was really about? This
was about HART. This was... this was about... we were talking about the
HART reorganization.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay. Yeah. I've seen some emails about that.

Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Can you kind of describe that a little bit?
MS. MURMAN:
Well, we had desire to have HART.... They would not be in charge of this
transportation plan. We actually were talking about maybe HART being
the... or not.... They would just be in charge of buses, that the
transportation would all move to the county or someone and there was a
lot of articles in the paper about it. Some people were for it and some
people were against it, but this was.... I think she was trying to do some
communications for HART about this and that's what this was about
because Greenlight was going on at the same time. So....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. And you specifically mentioned that in the

transcript; two of the meetings.
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah. So she said this as what her thoughts were about HART going.... I
don't know. Have you seen that?
MR. FLETCHER:
No. I haven't.
MS. MURMAN:
I don't.... It had to have been about the same time because we were.... It
was a lot of conversation. Most all of the commissioners that were on the
HART board, there were 4 of us, wanted HART to kind of reformulate
themselves.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Yeah. And I noticed some communication about

that prior to this.
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MS. MURMAN:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But that essentially kind of all flows together with the

TED Group because it's all talking about transportation?
MS. MURMAN:
it does and when the TED Group finally got formed and HART was a
member of it, then the conversation completely changed. We abandoned
this, which she put as number one and we did abandon that and then we
went on and did the PL... the whole PLG exercise.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But again, this proposal she... or this... not

proposal, but this outline she sent to you...
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Was on the day of that particular meeting.

For the PLG?
CPL. HOLLIS:
For the PLG.
MS. MURMAN:
But it was.....
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I say that just because there's some things in this

outline that you kind of specifically mention in the transcript where you
just....
MS. MURMAN:
About the community outreach?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. Talking about....
MS. MURMAN:
Because I talk a lot about community...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Waiting to see if Greenlight passes. Then you say I

think bringing in when you do the branding campaign someone who's an
expert in transportation allows us to do this.
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah. She was definitely trying to get a piece of the action.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You're talking about Beth?
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MS. MURMAN:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Leytham? Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah. And I think that's what.... I mean she said that to me and I mean I
didn't ask for it, but I think she was trying to get some... I think she was
trying to get some people interested in her being a part of whatever we did
with the transportation effort.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Well, was that information or anything that you

would have shared with anybody else on the board or in the PLG?
MS. MURMAN:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And you specifically mentioned the InVision

campaign and she was part of that.
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah. I mean everybody was familiar.... She was and so was Parsons.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Correct. Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
So.... Yes. We were all very familiar. I think everybody on the board knew
that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And again, it wasn't like this meeting on the 12th was

the first time that, you know, it just came to you... oh, we need to hire
somebody from... you know, a private place. That there have been
discussions prior to.
MS. MURMAN:
We had a lot of discussion at the PLG about hiring the right

communications person. If you read through the transcripts you'll see
there was a lot of discussion and so, that email shows that she.... I think
she was trying to get people interested in maybe her with some of the
work...
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Do you...?
Like she did at InVision.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And then also maybe on behalf of Parsons as

well?
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MS. MURMAN:
You know, I think everybody knew Beth worked with Parsons, but I was...
actually, I did not know that they were going to hire, subcontract with her
to do the Go Hillsborough work until later.
CPL. HOLLIS:
If you had known that...? Well, did you know she was
under contract at that time?
MS. MURMAN:
Well, she was lobbying I guess or consulting with them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
Yes. I mean, she was. She was getting paid by them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
If you had known they were going to bring her on as a

subcontractor would that have changed your opinion as far as bringing on
Parsons?
MS. MURMAN:
I knew that I would have wanted to consider other people.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Well, why is that? Is she not qualified to do the

work?
MS. MURMAN:
I wanted... I would have liked to measure, which is what I do as a

commissioner, measure her qualifications against other people that would
be interested in the same work. I mean, it's a standard RFP process we
have here. Now our contractors here are allowed to subcontract. We went
through that and I have wanted to ever since this all came up, I have kind
of wanted to change that policy.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
If it's over a certain threshold of dollars, we should... it should come to the
board. We haven't quite gotten there yet.
MR. FLETCHER:
MS. MURMAN:
Had a couple board discussions about that...

That we are hopefully will get there.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MS. MURMAN:
But I have some pretty strong feelings about that. Somebody's making a
lot of money, like 6 figures off a contract we are giving somebody else. I
just.... I think it needs to be vetted.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But prior to this meeting, the understanding

was you hire somebody. They have X amount of dollars they're allowed to
spend if they need to go more, they have to get board approval.
MS. MURMAN:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And who they hire as a subcontractor you as a board

don't have any involvement in that. Is that fair?
MS. MURMAN:
That's correct.
MR. FLETCHER:
MR. MURMAN:
That's correct.
That's correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And that was the case in this in 2014.
MS. MURMAN:
Mm-hmm. But it's kind of funny.... I mean, I know I probably shouldn't.... I

think that given all the conversation we had at the PLG about
communications, I think Parsons probably should have vetted it out a little
more. And it's just hindsight, but probably should have done that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But if this is somebody that they have had under

contract for multiple years and she's providing the services they've hired
her for and one of those being to reach out to member of the Tampa Bay
region, elected officials, developing those communications, those
relationships, which she was obviously doing bringing you to lunch a few
times and other commissioners and other people. You know, they felt she
was doing the work they had hired her to do and then here's this
opportunity.
MS. MURMAN:
Right. Seems very cozy.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well sure. Yes. Was there a sense of urgency in hiring a company sense
instead of doing a full out...
MS. MURMAN:
RFP.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
RFP, they just did the direct select? Was there.... And
the reasoning for that from what we've been told was there was a sense of
urgency or a time... hey, if we're going to get this on the 2016...
MS. MURMAN:
That's correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
We need to get this company chosen now. So there

was that sense?
MS. MURMAN:
You just answered the question. Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
There was concern.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
And I... and I have to say I think there was concern from some of us on
the board and I know I spoke to Mike about this that we were... we need to
not move too fast. That it's got to be done right. I know I said that to him
time and time.... I actually said that... I'm sure at a PLG meetings, that I
don't care how long it takes, but it's just got to be done right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
There were those sentiments, yes, and I think

Commissioner Hagan was... that it needed to be methodical and
everything looked at.
MS. MURMAN:
Yep. Yep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But expedient as well, so I understand, you know,

Mike Merrill he's trying to gather all the information and all the opinions of
the members and trying to appease them, but also trying to get it done
quickly and they have these companies under contract, so instead of
going through a brand new process. Do we have anybody qualified in this
pool over here? If we do, okay. If we don't, then we got to go this route.
But they felt they had.... Do you feel Parsons is qualified or was qualified?
MS. MURMAN:
I think they're very qualified. I mean yeah, I mean they're nationally

recognized or probably internationally. They do good work wherever they
go.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Prior to the August 12th meeting or it might have
been afterwards, you set up a meeting with Adam Goodman and Mike
Merrill to meet?
MS. MURMAN:
I did. I arranged for them to get together. Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay. And what was the purpose of that?

I saw where it was going with that, so I wanted him just to hear another
viewpoint about communications. But not just that, more important for that
was Adam managed the failed campaign in 2010.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
And I really wanted Mike to hear more of the information, what happened,
what didn't go right, so that he had that in his data bank.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And I understand Mike Merrill was not here. He

wasn't part of the 2010 referendum? Wasn't he brought on...?
MS. MURMAN:
Well, I think he was....
MR. FLETCHER:
He was employed by the county. I don't know what his

involvement in the campaign was.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Yeah. Just trying to remember. In speaking with

him....
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah. I don't think he was involved in the campaign because when I came
in before, was that...? Pat Bean had already left.
MR. FLETCHER:
MS. MURMAN:
I don't know that.

Oh.
MR. FLETCHER:
I don't know that history.
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah. I think he was interim or something maybe.
MR. FLETCHER:
Ms. Bean was administrator during and on up to that

campaign.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
And so he's a PR firm; a political PR firm?
MS. MURMAN:
He is.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So then during the August 12th meeting and

then Commissioner Higginbotham stated kind of at the end make sure it's
not a PR firm, so did that kind of take Adam out of the running at that
point?
MS. MURMAN:
I don't think Adam ever really wanted to be considered.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So more or less this was just an information

sharing session?
MS. MURMAN:
Information.
CPL. HOLLIS:
He wasn't trying to lobby, to work on any particular

project?
MS. MURMAN:
Mm-hmm. I don't think... He did not relay that to me.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
Nor did Mike.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Alright. Now in looking at.... We did pull Beth

Leytham's phone records.
MS. MURMAN:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Let me pull those out. How would you describe or do

you even know Ms. Leytham's relationship with Ken Hagan?
MS. MURMAN:
Very close.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay. So friends as well?

Closer than just friends, but I... not like romantic I don't think.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
But they are very, very, very tight friends.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Are they.... And you know that because of them

being together all the time or on the phone all the time?
MS. MURMAN:
Yes. Yeah. On the phone. Texts. Everything. All the time.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you and Commissioner Hagan... I mean

would you consider him a friend as far as because you sit on the
commission?
MS. MURMAN:
Oh, yeah. I consider all of them like... all of the commissioners friends.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
I don't know how much after all this is over, but....
CPL. HOLLIS:
With the phone records here.
MS. MURMAN:
Yep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I looked specifically, we just kind of narrowed down

the focus in August of 2014. So from August 1st to August 27th, basically
August 27th is when Parsons is chosen. I mean it's not announced to
everybody yet, but internally the people at Parsons have been notified by
the county, hey, we're going to use you. Let's start getting together.
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
There are 34 calls between Ken Hagan and Beth.

Yeah. She was, she was very aggressive.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And in those calls, there....
MS. MURMAN:
And I was.... I.... Well, yeah. I was vice chair at the time.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Were all these phone calls dealing with the

transportation initiative or were there being personal, you know getting
together for any reason?
MS. MURMAN:
No. We didn't get together hardly at all.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Sure.
By she just called a lot and she stayed on it until she got what she wanted.
I mean, you could tell. I mean... that's why I said, I mean I could look on
any given month. She probably called me 40 times. I mean....
Yeah. I just counted from the 1st to the 27th.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
But she did call a lot and you know, I don't really remember all of the
substance of the conversations. I wish I could.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
And when I became chair it got worse. I mean, it was just like you know
she wants to know every single thing that's going on. Trying to.... I don't
know if it's so much directing. Maybe some of it is directing our opinions,
our activities, but you know, looking back as much as I know about
lobbyists registration law, she should have been registered.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
And even being under subcontract with Parsons, she should have
registered.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I anticipate there are probably going to be some

changes. I know you voiced some changes that you want.
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah. It will come back January 6th the new lobbying ordinance.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And you didn't specifically hear Beth say that

she represents Parsons or you did?
MS. MURMAN:
No. I mean...
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
You just assumed...

I just... we just assumed she did.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay. Now with....

I mean I never saw a contract. I never... I mean, I mentioned before she
talked about she made a lot of money. That's about the extent of it, but I
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Case No: 2015-691857
mean she never really said well, I represent Parsons, you know, but you
just kind of assumed it because, you know, she took you to lunch with him
and did different things. I mean, I've been around long enough if a
middleman's taking you to lunch, usually they're under contract with or
some representation.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So if someone that is close with Beth didn't

know that she was working with Parsons, would that surprise you? I
mean, you drew that conclusion just in your association.
MS. MURMAN:
Yes. I think everybody on the floor knew she worked for Parsons. I mean, I
think because she kind of set up.... I mean she.... I don't think she did too
much more with me than she did some other commissioners. I mean I
know she and Victor talked a lot and she just talked to a lot of us. She was
constantly engaged.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
So....
But I don't know if they thought the same thing I did.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
I mean I couldn't tell you that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Would you say that she has a strategy to what she

does?
MS. MURMAN:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
To position herself and her clients in the right place?
MS. MURMAN:
Yes. And I definitely think she has strategy on the half cent sales tax all
along.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. What I wanted to talk to you specifically were

the phone records and just pull out my.... Okay. So we have the text
message with Mike Merrill.
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
That he released. And this is with Beth Leytham. Now
there's that specific one that's been talked about even through the media
and hopefully you get a chance to kind of put some context with it.
MS. MURMAN:
I know.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So this... I've spoken with Ken and Sandy reference

transportation communications. And specifically talks about Adam who...
Adam Goodman.
MS. MURMAN:
I don't know how she found out that Mike talked to Adam unless Mike told
her. Mike probably told her.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So would that have been something you would

have shared with Beth, that you would introduce them?
MS. MURMAN:
No. I didn't share it with her. I said probably Mike Merrill said he talked to
him.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
I don't know.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well how would you describe their relationship, Beth

and Mike?
MS. MURMAN:
I think.... Okay. Beth is good at what she does, but she gets her claws in
and just kind of draws you in and I saw that kind of happening with Mike. I
think she, she again I think Mike used to say she calls me a lot, texts me a
lot, you know, that type of thing, and trying to always influence.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
I think that's how I can just put it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
That's a good way to....

Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Very good.
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MS. MURMAN:
And quite honestly, I know this is the part that's outraged everybody, I've
spoken with Ken and Sandy. I don't know why she's using my name, but I
mean she did speak to me a lot, but I think she spoke to everybody else.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, this is... let's see. August 19, 2014, at 9:29 a.m.
So obviously would say you spoke before then, so if we're looking back on
the records, unless you all had a face to face meeting, did she ever have
face to face meetings?
MS. MURMAN:
No, she didn't do many face to face. It all the phone; email... not email
even.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Well, the earliest, prior to the 19th, yes. It would

have been August the 15th and let's look.... Let's see. Looks like....
MS. MURMAN:
She called a lot.
CPL. HOLLIS:
She called you. I'm sorry. There's an incoming call, so

you called her. There's a 35 4 minute conversation on August 14th and
then she called you for a 5 minute on the 15th and then you recalled her.
MS. MURMAN:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
It looks like called her right back. A 25 minute

conversation.
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah. She called a lot. I mean she did.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And then she called you 7 minutes.
MS. MURMAN:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So transportation communication, I mean did you

share with her kind of, I guess, the direction that you were hoping to
accomplish with the transportation initiative with the communications?
MS. MURMAN:
No. Because we didn't.... Oh, with the communications? No. Because I

didn't know Parsons was going to subcontract with her. I think she was
trying to position herself. I do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MS. MURMAN:
I really know because she, she never says like Sandy, would you support
me for doing the communications. Definitely that was never asked of me.
She never said to me Sandy, I'm going to be working with Parsons. None
of that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Now, I think that's the only one on that one.

Okay. So we went to Parsons Brinckerhoff and recovered email
communications, you know, dealing with the Go Hillsborough project. So
this is from George Walton to Bob Clifford. Did you have any associations
with Mr. Clifford? I know he worked for TBARTA.
MS. MURMAN:
He worked for TBARTA, but I wasn't on that board. You know, very casual
in passing. I mean I knew of him. He knew of me.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And what this says is George is saying just got

off the phone with Beth. She said we should expect a call about assisting
them on the TED Group plan and this dated August 19, 2014. So he gets
off the phone with Beth, so when I look at her phone records and.... Okay.
So then I find this is the phone call that I believe she's speaking of here
with George Walton, which is on August 19th and the time is 5:49 p.m.
Now prior to that, she has a 40 minute conversation with you and it looks
like you reached out to her. So would you have given that information that
Parsons may be being considered?
MS. MURMAN:
No. Because I didn't know. I mean, if I did know I wouldn't have.... I mean I
knew that they had narrowed down to 3 people.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
But I didn't know that if they had been picked. When were they picked? I
don't even remember the date.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well....
MR. FLETCHER:
We would have to refer to the records. I don't know...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. In talking with the decision makers, which our

understanding is John Lyons, Mike Williams, and Larry Scully and you
said that John Lyons reached out to you and told you?
MS. MURMAN:
John Lyons, yeah, was some communication I had with him. Probably by
phone.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
Because I wanted to either he called me or something to tell us. I think
they did brief all the commissioners about who they have finally selected.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Well, this is pretty early on before because

they....
MS. MURMAN:
Because they didn't select until like October, did they?

Well, no. They had selected by August the 27th.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Oh, our meetings didn't start till October.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Right.
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Well, yeah, the meeting in October it was official.

Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
But they were already on board initially.

Yeah.
So by the 27th, August 27th it's known it's Parsons, at
CPL. HOLLIS:
least internally.
MS. MURMAN:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So the 19th there's still paperwork being brought in

from the companies that are in the running or how they're just deciding
that. So and just looking at it, it just has the appearance, and that's the
thing, a lot of these things appear to be one way and now we need to put
some context behind it.
MS. MURMAN:
I know. I hear you.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So is it possible you may have mentioned something to Beth? That hey,

Parsons may be getting a call?
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MS. MURMAN:
I.... No. I don't... I mean I would not.... I mean all I knew was that it was
narrowed down to 3 people, but I just I would not have said.... Why...? I
didn't know she.... I mean I guess I knew she worked with Parsons. But
no, I don't recall that at all.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And if she had that information to share with Parsons

and they had kind of a head start in getting any kind of documentation
together to present of how or why they should be selected.
MS. MURMAN:
I wish I could remember, but I don't.... I would not have.... I wouldn't have
said that to her. I wouldn't have had a reason to say it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
Because she was not involved in the transportation plan per se, except
she was lobbying... I think she was trying to make us favorable to
Parsons.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
And that could have been what that phone call was about was just like are
you still okay with Parsons or something like that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But possibly in those conversations that hey, they fit

the mold that you all were looking for and you can develop that from the
transcripts and looking at the meeting.
MS. MURMAN:
You know, but....
CPL. HOLLIS:
That they would have fit. I mean somebody with

transportation experience who has done these kind of things before.
MS. MURMAN:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And they obviously.... So....
MS. MURMAN:
I mean she, I tell you what. She called a lot because she was always
pumping for information.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
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MS. MURMAN:
Always. And you know, she would be like you. She would be a great
investigator. She would ask the question 10 different ways to try and get
you to say what she wants to hear.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Mm-hmm. Oh, I'm not....

No, no, no, no. I'm not accusing you of anything.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
I have no agenda whatsoever (indiscernible).

No, no, no. I did not infer that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
But I mean, you know, generally.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MS. MURMAN:
People figure out how I can get that information. You know.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And the fact that she's known you since 1998
that there was some type of a relationship.
MS. MURMAN:
Well, that was very limited. I mean, I have to say there probably was a 10
year span where we didn't even speak to each other.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
From '98 to 2008?

Maybe 2000 to.... No. Or maybe '99 to 2010.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
Or '11.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Did she help with your electing, being elected here to

the commission?
MS. MURMAN:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I mean I know she's contributed to all the

commissioners. That's no secret, but she didn't help you in the campaign
process?
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MS. MURMAN:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So you don't specifically remember this

conversation?
MS. MURMAN:
No, I don't. And I usually didn't call her unless she had called me.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, the.... Let's see. She did call you that morning at
9:00 for 18 minutes and then it looks like you called her for two at 11:00.
MS. MURMAN:
I must have called her back. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But then there's a break and then 5:00 p.m. you call
her for the 40 minutes.
MS. MURMAN:
No. I mean, I don't.... She must have asked a question. You know, she
asked about a lot of other things too. She was not just.... Phone
conversations weren't just about Parsons.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, no. I don't doubt that.
MS. MURMAN:
She was involved in many, many other things.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And just looking at the communication that's going on,

but it's just going along with the emails and where she's spoke to George.
MS. MURMAN:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And she had just talked to you for a considerable

amount of time; 40 minutes is a long time.
MS. MURMAN:
It is. I know. I hear you.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So if there was just in the... if there was any kind of I

guess assumption made...
MS. MURMAN:
I just would not... no, I wouldn't have said.... Because until we vote on
something, I don't give that kind... I wouldn't have given that kind of
information to somebody and especially, I mean, you know, thinking that
she was with Parsons so...
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CPL. HOLLIS:
So would you be more careful around her?
MS. MURMAN:
Careful.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Mike Merrill was unaware that she was under

contract. At least that's what he told us, that she was under contract with
Parsons.
MS. MURMAN:
You mean before?
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Before the Go Hillsborough project.

He probably wouldn't have known.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And had he known he may have been more

careful?
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah. I would say that. And I think had any of us known that Parsons, like I
said before, Parsons was going to subcontract would have requested, you
know, them to go out.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
Look at other people.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Here's another email that we recovered. It's dated

August 20th. And it's Beth sending George and Bob Clifford.... Just... I'm
copying both of you because uncertain which of you will get the actual call
from the county. So she seems pretty confident.
MS. MURMAN:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
That there's going to be a call made.
MS. MURMAN:
I don't know.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And it says I was asked to put attached framework

together for them. So she was asked to do this.
MS. MURMAN:
By who?
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Good question. But this... the attachment is the same
attachment she sent to you on August the 12th.
MS. MURMAN:
So did she, had she... was she talking to Mike Merrill already?
CPL. HOLLIS:
There could have been some discussion there, but I

mean there had been.... Yeah. There is some communication on her
phone records, but I guess basically being asked by the county for the
county. Was that anything you asked her to do?
MS. MURMAN:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Alright.
MR. FLETCHER:
Can I take a look at that?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MS. MURMAN:
That's that document he showed me early on. Beth was always working
angles.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But giving that, that's what she's hired to do. She was
very good at it.
MS. MURMAN:
By Parsons. She was very good at it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
Absolutely. You figured it out.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you.
MS. MURMAN:
Did she send that document to Mike Merrill?
CPL. HOLLIS:
This email? No. This email was an internal email with

MS. MURMAN:
Oh, with George and Clifford.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Yes.
Okay.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
So this particular engagement. The only time we

found this was in reviewing of the emails was to you.
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
Or... yeah, and the August 21st.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. FLETCHER:
Not the one from Beth to Mr. Clifford and Mr. Walton,
but the prior email that we went over that had the attachment with the
framework.
CPL. HOLLIS:
That's correct. Yes. That's correct. I assume it's the same one. It's outlined
the same thing. It's the same title. All that.
MR. FLETCHER:
Did that come with the actual attachment or we're

assuming that it's the same?
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
It did. Yeah. We do have that.

It did? With the same attachment to it?
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Same attachment.
And she just sent that to me out of the clear. I do remember that because I
know I didn't ask for it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
So she... yeah, she was definitely trying to get the business.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is she somebody that you would.... I understand she

has a relationship with members of the media or the editorial boards.
MS. MURMAN:
Yes. Very close. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And in knowing that, is that... would you reach out to

her to maybe help place a certain spin on an issue? Like when I looked at
communications, you and Mike, you know, there was... the editorial board
wrote up their opinion. It didn't favor you know the Go Hillsborough project
per se, so is Beth you can turn to, hey, call your contacts and kind of
explain no, this is what we're trying to do.
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MS. MURMAN:
I never did that, but I don't know that other commissioners didn't do that
because I didn't have... I don't have those kind of connections with those
guys like she does. Which I mean I think I asked her one time to call
somebody, but it wasn't related to this. It was about Hoe Brown. It was a
totally different subject about homeless because she was doing some
volunteer work with our homeless group and she helped get some articles
written to help promote the good stuff we were doing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Have you ever paid Beth Leytham for any work
that she's done?
MS. MURMAN:
I paid her for doing the... some campaign work back in 1998.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
And there's records of that on my campaign finance reports.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Alright. But in kind of knowing what... like even

the outline or even... has she ever reviewed any documents for you and
kind of maybe an op ed piece or something you were writing?
MS. MURMAN:
Oh, I would write... I wrote things like... or speeches and I'd ask her just to
review it and give thoughts or changes or something, but that's all I ever
asked her. She... Carly Fiorina came here and she helped me write the
speech because I was doing her introduction.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
I wrote the framework and then she spruced it up.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And but when you were saying that to her

knowing the kind of work that she does, you trust her to I guess review
those things and put her input on it?
MS. MURMAN:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is that more of a friend or is that something that

would...?
MS. MURMAN:
As a friend.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
for?
Okay. And that's something she wouldn't charge you
MS. MURMAN:
No. I mean, just.... I don't know... it wasn't.... It was just a cursory look. It
wasn't like any amount of time that was spent. Because I would develop
the outline and the speech and then I just have her look at it and see what
she thought.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. If these detectives have any questions for you,

is that okay if they ask them to you?
MS. MURMAN:
Sure. Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I just want to make sure. That's all for now.
DET. CLARK:
Yeah. I'm need just a copy of the contract, Beth's contract if you have it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, yeah. I think I got it.
DET. CLARK:
Detective Clark for the record. ABN 173949. Ma'am I would like for you to
look at her actual contract because we referred to it several times during
this interview and I think in fairness you should see it...
MS. MURMAN:
Which contract?
DET. CLARK:
Beth's... one of Beth's contracts with Parsons.
MS. MURMAN:
Oh, okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
This is April 1, 2014. So this is the one she's actually

under....
MS. MURMAN:
Just working for Parsons or doing the subcontractor?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Working for Parsons. No. This is just for parsons prior

to any Go Hillsborough.
MS. MURMAN:
Oh, okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So some of... and you can read it... just some of the
things that she's doing, you know, facilitating introductions.
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MS. MURMAN:
Oh, yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Meetings, other communications with elected officials.
MS. MURMAN:
Chip, have you seen this?
MR. FLETCHER:
Ma'am, this is the first time you've seen this, right?
MS. MURMAN:
Mm-hmm.
MR. FLETCHER:
Because that's my understanding.
MS. MURMAN:
I mean I haven't seen this before, so.... It's for 12 months. $5,000 a month.
Oh, so.... Okay. So she's got different people.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. And she's hired people under her, subcontracted

under her.
MS. MURMAN:
Which I think she did. She did in this Go Hillsborough, too.
CPL. HOLLIS:
She may have.
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah. Because I know two people I think she paid. She has a lot of
people.
DET. CLARK:
Yes, ma'am. The reason why I wanted you to look at the contract is
because we made several references during the interview about her being
under contract and then you made, you answered some questions without
having seen the document, so I wanted you to see that.
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah, because I said I haven't seen a contract.
DET. CLARK:
Yeah.
MS. MURMAN:
With her.
DET. CLARK:
And this contract that we were talking just for the

record was dated April 2014 whereas she was hired by Parsons as a
consultant to provide consulting services on the basis of experience and
qualifications, reputation for integrity, and ethical business conduct. One of
my questions is, because you referred to her as a consultant and that was
your belief from her conduct. Now seeing a contract of which was effective
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during the time period where she was engaging you for information and
calls, do you in fact believe that she was acting as a consultant or a
constituent?
MS. MURMAN:
Well, I mean partly yes, party no. Some of them... I mean some of our
exchange wasn't business related. It might have been about some other
things, political or some different things. So you know having seen that
contract now I know she should have registered as a lobbyist. I mean,
obviously.
DET. CLARK:
Yes. And that's what I'm getting at. Is consultant or lobbyist, her behavior
as it related to Parsons Brinckerhoff and the possibility of this selection of
Parsons, her behavior.... I believe you said that was strategic. And after
reading the contract, do you believe that her behavior was directed at
getting information that would benefit Parsons Brinckerhoff?
MS. MURMAN:
After reading that contract?
DET. CLARK:
Yes, ma'am.
MS. MURMAN:
I would say yes.
DET. CLARK:
Okay. Part E of the contract, which would be Part 2, I'm going to quote
from there. It's going to say assist Parsons Brinckerhoff to develop and
implement strategies to obtain perspective and/or targeted opportunities
which may be available to Parsons Brinckerhoff within the Tampa Bay
region. Do you think that she fulfilled that as a deliverable to Parsons by
making... by fulfilling that section of that contract?
MS. MURMAN:
Definitely.
DET. CLARK:
Okay. Part H of that contract again on page 2 it reads provide other

government relation services, including political, governmental affairs,
advisory, consultant, and public affairs, advice as mutually agreed upon by
Parsons Brinckerhoff and consultant to achieve certain goals and
objectives as may be agreed upon the party from time to time. Do you
believe in your experience with the Leytham Group or Beth Leytham that
she fulfilled that as a deliverable to Parsons with the contract?
MR. FLETCHER:
Just caution you not to speculate anything you don't

actually know...
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MS. MURMAN:
Yeah. I don't want to speculate, but.... Yeah. I don't want to speculate. You
know. I think that that's the fine line here from after seeing the contract
and the actual specific language in the contract, you could derive from that
that she was successful.
DET. CLARK:
Yes.
MS. MURMAN:
My personal.... I mean, I would be speculative if I said absolutely or

something, but I think if you're looking at that you're just going to go off
words and the fact that she did get the subcontract, you can derive that,
correct?
DET. CLARK:
Yes. Yes. I just thought it would be in fairness, like I said, to give you a
context.
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah.
DET. CLARK:
In concrete context. When someone is under contract and that their

behaviors that are consistent with a person that would be under contract if
this were the results.
MS. MURMAN:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
DET. CLARK:
My next question would be are you aware that... of

any relationship that Beth Leytham or Leytham Group had with Lucia
Garsys?
MS. MURMAN:
No. I'm not.
DET. CLARK:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
Other than just a friendship or that type of thing.
DET. CLARK:
Okay. And from your understanding, what is Lucia

Garsys' position or job as it relates to those who were involved in the
selection process?
MS. MURMAN:
I think she was at the top making the, helping to make the final decision. I
don't think any one person made it. Again, I'm kind of speculating because
it wasn't in the room when John Lyons sat down with them and they all
discussed it and chose the top 3, then the top 1. I mean we weren't
involved in that, so....
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DET. CLARK:
Other than Scully, Scully was an outside source for that decision making,
the decision making group, but two of the three or two thirds of that group
are supervised by Lucia Garsys.
MS. MURMAN:
DET. CLARK:
Oh. Okay. I didn't know that.

Okay? And Lucia Garsys answers then to Mike Merrill.
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
DET. CLARK:
If you aren't aware of that, of that relationship there, then I don't have any
further questions.
MS. MURMAN:
I wasn't aware of two people that worked with Scully worked under her.
DET. CLARK:
She is their supervisor.
MS. MURMAN:
Oh, no.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Except for Scully
MS. MURMAN:
Okay. I misunderstood the question.
DET. CLARK:
Except for Scully
MS. MURMAN:
Except for Scully.
DET. CLARK:
Yes. Okay. I have no further questions.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Sam Portalatin for the record. Just.... one...probably one quick question or
maybe two. And thank you for your time. I know it's been lengthy. I
appreciate it.
MS. MURMAN:
Oh, sure.
DET. PORTALATIN:
When you were mentioning Beth called a lot, it's not the first time we've
heard that, but you did say something that I did hear for the first time is
that she tried to keep you on the phone until she would get what she
would wanted to get. Do you have any...? And that's... again, speaks to
what she does.
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MS. MURMAN:
Right.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Probably because she... why she does it so well.
MS. MURMAN:
Right.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Can you remember any time specifically where she was trying to get
something or trying to maybe gather information and what that result was?
Did she get what she wanted or was it...? How'd that conversation end if
you can remember a specific instance?
MS. MURMAN:
I have to think about it for a second.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Sure.
MS. MURMAN:
I think she.... You know, in looking back, now that I know everything, in
looking back I could tell the reason she called a lot is because she was
nervous that maybe Parsons wasn't going to get chosen. Okay? And I
think she probably was.... I mean she did promote them a lot wanting us to
support them or the other and of course my always response was well,
you know, I want to wait and see what staff comes back with. You know,
their recommendation. I want to see, you know, their report. You know all
this stuff. But she just would keep at it, so that's about all I can.... You
know, and it wasn't.... I mean, and I'm not... I'm just going to tell you the
truth is that she.... It wasn't just this issue. There were a lot of other things
that she would get involved in as far as commission work or she might
have other clients and she would kind of do that same type of thing. She
would.... I don't specifically.... I didn't work with her personally, but I know
the PTC was one. I think she worked with Victor a lot because she
represented Yellow Cab and she has had other clients. Newland Homes
was one. She called me a lot about Newland Homes. They're in my
district. Waterset is in my district. I mean that's probably half of those
phone calls and the length of them because, you know, Newland was
involved in the change in the paying of the impact fees and she got....
DET. PORTALATIN:
MS. MURMAN:
The development agreement amendment.

The development agreement and we are working on the sports complex
on the Waterset property then. I mean there were so many issues
involving Waterset and she represented them and I did spend a lot of time
on the phone with about that because they chose her to communicate with
me. They did not want to communicate with me directly. So that... and she
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just like on it. I mean like 10 times a day. I mean...It's been interesting. I
don't have many phone calls now.
DET. PORTALATIN:
So what I'm kind of hearing from you, at least on the part of Parsons as it
concerns Beth, is that you were telling her I want to wait to hear what staff,
the recommendations that come back.
MS. MURMAN:
Right.
DET. PORTALATIN:
So that... does that mean that you were basically

letting her know that you weren't making that decision on who was being
used or... I mean chosen or...?
MS. MURMAN:
When we... we got to make the final or approve the final decision, but staff
internally chose the one person that they would bring in. Then they told us
who it was going to be. We didn't actually approve it actually I don't think,
did we?
MR. FLETCHER:
We was....
MS. MURMAN:
Did we approve the...? Oh, we had to approve the contract for the million
dollars.
MR. FLETCHER:
Not to testify, but for context. It was prior approved list from which the staff
selected.
MS. MURMAN:
Right.
MR. FLETCHER:
And began to utilize in the first phase and the second

phase until they reached a delegated authority and then that came to the
board when they needed to exceed that delegated authority.
MS. MURMAN:
Right
MR. FLETCHER:
Which to the best of my recollection was in January.
MS. MURMAN:
That's fine. Sorry. Lots of business.
DET. PORTALATIN:
Oh, no. Thank you. Thank you. That was my

question. Thank you.
MS. MURMAN:
Okay.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
When we... before we even went on record we had

had discussions about the cell phone and we have approached about it if
you still had the physical phone that you had back in 2014, if we could
download the contents of that phone in case there may have been some
text messages that were inadvertently erased and we were going to have
your permission to do that from what I understand. But the phone, you no
longer have that phone? You traded it in?
MS. MURMAN:
I sent it back... I traded it in. I'm sorry.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
And I see the receipt that you provided.

Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Dated October 11 of 2014.
MS. MURMAN:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you know if there were any text messages

between you and Beth on there or anything that would have involved
county business?
MS. MURMAN:
I am sure there were some.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
But it had to have been.... I mean, I'm just being honest, transitory. I
wasn't... I'm not real good at typing, so on texting and especially the
phone I had before was so small and half the time it didn't work, so I just
never really used it very much.
CPL. HOLLIS:
In your communication with Beth, was it primarily in person, on the phone

or by text or email?
MS. MURMAN:
It was on the phone.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
You can tell from the phone records.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
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MS. MURMAN:
She... because I didn't like to text much, so she called.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Do you feel she had any kind of influence on decisions you were
making as a commissioner?
MS. MURMAN:
You mean did she influence me?
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah.
As a consultant I think she tried to, you know, sell her viewpoint on what...
who she represented and what issues that were before them. Absolutely.
Which is what a lobbyist does.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Right.
Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So there is a place for a lobbyist, it's just

recognizing...
MS. MURMAN:
Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Recognizing who they are and if they're following

this....
MS. MURMAN:
And the representation being, you know, made public. I mean, that your
registered. That you're.... I mean, I know from Tallahassee and actually I, I
was a paid consultant for I think for 3 years after I got out of the legislature
and so I know you have reporting and the money, you got to report how
much money you made and every single dollar, everything's accounted
for. And that's what I noticed since the change here. We really need to get
more of a system like that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, and we've got, you know, going back and

looking at all the lobbyist records from Hillsborough County comparing
them to other places, the way the state does it seems very effective.
MS. MURMAN:
It is.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You know, the lobbyist and then here are all their
principals.
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MS. MURMAN:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
As opposed to here where there's really not a checks

system of hey, you forgot to fill this box in or you forgot to fill that in. That
sort of thing.
MS. MURMAN:
Well, and I mean really in Tallahassee, I mean they'd love to not do that
because other people try and steal your clients and then they know how
much money you've made.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. Okay. Let me just make sure.... Oh, and so and

then back to the... we have recovered a bunch of text messages from Mr.
Merrill, communication with you and you in turn basically sent copies of
those same communications to us.
MS. MURMAN:
Yes. I did.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And that's because you didn't have your physical

one .
MS. MURMAN:
I didn't have the phone. Sorry.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Okay. But were you trying to cover up

anything?
MS. MURMAN:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Were you purposely hiding any of that information?
MS. MURMAN:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I don't think I have any more questions. If we

have a question down the road, if we had ask you...?
MS. MURMAN:
Please feel free to call me.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Okay. No problem.
I'll give you my cell phone if you want. I mean I just want to be truthful and
open and try to get this behind us.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
I appreciate that very much. I'm going to stop the
recording. It's 2:29 p.m.
End of interview.
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Attachment Description: SANDRA MURMAN #2 INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:

2015-691857
Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222593, interview Sandra Murman, County
Commissioner
CPL. HOLLIS:
Today is Tuesday, December 22, 2015. The time is

10:55 a.m. Corporal Charles Hollis, ABN 5603. Interview being conducted
today in reference to the Go Hillsborough investigation. Also present for
the interview....
DET. PORTALATIN:
DET. CLARK:
CPL. HOLLIS:
And this interview is being conducted at the county

building on the 2nd floor and Commissioner Murman, would you state your
name please?
MS. MURMAN:
County Commissioner Sandy Murman.
MR. FLETCHER:
County Attorney Chip Fletcher.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And Commissioner Murman, you're aware our conversation is being

recorded?
MS. MURMAN:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MS. MURMAN:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. Okay. And we last spoke not too long ago
and I just had a couple follow-up questions.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
For: 4602
Uh-huh.
We spoke to Beth Leytham...last.. this is Tuesday... we spoke to her on
Friday. So just had a couple things.
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Case No: 2015-691857
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
I know when we had spoken about the... and I know it's not a big deal, but
the.... Oh, I'm sorry. I need you to raise your hand. Do you swear or affirm
the information you'll provide today will be the truth, the whole truth, and
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
I do.
Thank you.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
I will.
You had mentioned you had been working out there at this particular spa,
this fitness....
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Barre Fitness.
Barre Fitness?
MS. MURMAN:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And then Lucia Garsys showed up and then all the sudden Beth just
showed up. But did you invite her? Had there been discussions and you
trying to invite her?
MS. MURMAN:
I... you know, I think in casual conversation she asked

what I was doing to stay in shape and I mentioned it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
I mean it wasn't a special invitation. I think she went

online and looked at the schedule and she showed up one day.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because she had just mentioned that you had invited her to come.
MS. MURMAN:
I don't... I mean.... If she says that's an invitation of

me telling her that's how I stay in shape, I guess.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And then you had mentioned when we spoke the last time that you
had never heard her come and out and say I represent Parsons, but that
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you just assumed based on going out, you know, to the Tampa Club a few
times and just... in her dealings that she had been consulting for Parsons
for quite some time. Is that accurate?
MS. MURMAN:
It is. And then when you showed me... this is what I

thought after you left last time, when you showed me the contract that
started in something of '14.
CPL. HOLLIS:
'14. Uh-huh.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
But I think she had represented them way longer.

Yes. It started in 2010.
MS. MURMAN:
Okay. Yeah. I was going to say.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MS. MURMAN:
But you.... Okay. Because I didn't, I only, I thought

maybe when you showed me that contract she was establishing that from
that day.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, no, no.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
She..yeah in 2010.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
And it was kind of a continuous year by year contract...
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Mm-hmm.
Up, you know, through the Go Hillsborough. And you mentioned that she
had bragged about all the money she made and that's kind of one way
you kind of realized that she was maybe representing Parsons.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
Or.... Yes.
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MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
And the Go Hillsborough.
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
Of course we asked Beth about that and she clearly denied ever saying
that to you, but do you remember her.... It was just in casual
conversation?
MS. MURMAN:
Casual.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Casual.
MS. MURMAN:
Oh, yeah. It was... I remember distinctly like I'm

making over a million dollars this year.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
Now to this email where she sent you an engagement outline that was
titled, an engagement outline reference Hillsborough transportation. This
one. It was on August the 12th, 2014, 1:11 p.m.
MS. MURMAN:
Oh that document.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. Now we asked her about that because originally you said you thought
it was dealing with HART, but then when we kind of... you look at
everything. Tying in the phone records, tying in what's going on at the time
with the PLG meeting and I asked Beth about this. She actually used this
outline during the InVision project and she just kind of changed a few
things, but she did mention that you specifically asked her something to
kind of help. Give me an outline, give me some kind of help. And then
when you look at the phone records....
MS. MURMAN:
I just... I don't recall that. I mean this was, you know,

when I saw the word HART here, that's why I thought it was in reference
to when we were talking about the HART reorganization.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, okay. Oh yeah I mean...
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MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
But I wouldn't have had a reason to ask her for that.
Right. Yeah. I see the number one abandon, but as you break down....
The reason I say that, because if you look at just the environment going
on at the time.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
So August 12th, this is... this email's sent 1:11 p.m. At 1:05 p.m. and 1:07
p.m., you make a phone call to Beth Leytham and then at 5:21 p.m. you
make an incoming call to Beth Leytham.
MS. MURMAN:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So it would seem like maybe if it's... you're calling her hey, can you send
me something and she sends this to you real quick. Then you use some of
the points in this outline in some of your remarks at the PLG meeting.
MS. MURMAN:
I think she sent this to me and.... I probably called her

and asked her what it was about.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Well, this, this comes after the two phone calls, so that's why.
MS. MURMAN:
Oh. I really.... I mean I wouldn't have had.... Why

would I...? I wouldn't have had a reason to really ask her for this. I mean....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, when you kind of tie this all in and then just based on her expertise,
because she has done the InVision project.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
She did.
And then that was very popular from what we understand just in talking to
a lot of folks that if you were reaching out to her for just some advice, just
because she's experienced in this arena somewhat.
MS. MURMAN:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I mean, that wouldn't be out of the ordinary, would it?
MS. MURMAN:
I mean.... No. No. Not at all. And, but I mean I have to

tell you again, she was again very aggressive and she had things she
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would just send them to you. I mean you didn't ask for them, but she
would just... to make her... to put herself in position.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. Well, in a way that's....
MS. MURMAN:
And someone that was highly capable, because the

work she's done before.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. And... but that... she would be doing her job in that sense as a paid
consultant, as....
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
For Parsons?
For Parsons or for any company.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
If that's, you know, she's being hired to do even though she doesn't come
out and say I represent so and so.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
True.
Maybe in the future that possibly needs to happen to be more, I guess,
articulate who people represent and that sort of thing.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
But in this instance.... But again and we had talked to you before, at no
time did she come and tell you, hey, I represent so and so?
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
I.... No. I mean, I just assumed it.

Okay. So if you kind of take kind of this output here and then I know the
recent article that just came out in TBO or the Tribune.
MS. MURMAN:
Oh, Mike Salinero?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. Kind of the change in plan, but then you had some input from some
citizens and constituents to kind of help.
MS. MURMAN:
I did always ask a lot. I mean, if people had the

information to help me, you know, gather information, because we were
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just coming... we were coming out of the prosperity committee and,
Economic Prosperity Committee. That was before Policy Leadership
Group.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. Right.
MS. MURMAN:
And you know, I think she... you know, obviously she

had done a whole communications plan for InVision, but I mean, really I
just....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, I say that because really...
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
I wouldn't have asked her for it.

From right now...
MS. MURMAN:
I wouldn't have had a reason to.
CPL. HOLLIS:
From that recent article and then looking at this, I mean there's nothing
wrong with that. You're reaching out to constituents and citizens for input.
People that have expertise. That have been kind of through that and she's
sharing (indiscernible) with that whether her motives may have been for
Parsons in the future.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
To position herself. Absolutely.

That's possible.
MS. MURMAN:
It's possible. Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But she never came out and said hey, this'll be great for the direction so
Parsons could get this contract. There's nothing like that said?
MS. MURMAN:
I don't recall that exactly statement, but again, the

way Beth worked was it was this slow, methodical...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Strategic positioning.
Strategic. Yes, I've heard that before.
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MS. MURMAN:
You know, it was like she would get in your mind that,
you know, here's what I've done before. You know, so you would think
she's highly capable of doing this.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
And I think that's... I mean if that was to sum it up,

that's kind of where I am on that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But I guess just looking as in comparing it to the news article from a
couple days ago.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah.
Essentially, kind of the same thing...
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
I did..I did...
It's just obviously there's a lot more focus on Beth giving the scope of all of
this.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
But it's essentially kind of the same.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
She's giving you information.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
She's giving me information.

You're using some of it as...
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Frame of reference.
Very good. Then the 19th, let me see here, August 19th of 2014, we kind of
touched on this. So this was an email that Bob Clifford had sent to George
Walton and just mentioned I got off the phone with Beth. She said we
should expect a call in reference to the TED Group. So we asked about
that and we looked on the phone records and you had spoken to her for
the 40 minutes.
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MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. Right.
Now when we talked to Beth about it, she said that you called her and you
just said they're calling engineering firms. Not that you mentioned a
specific engineering firm, but hey, they're calling engineering firms. Do you
remember having that conversation?
MS. MURMAN:
Well, that goes back to the top 3 that were being

chosen.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MS. MURMAN:
When we talked about this I, you know, and I didn't

know other than who the top 3 were from staff.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, yeah. And actually I don't even think the top 3 had even been
mentioned by the 19th because.... But if you look at the August 12th
meeting and just kind of review the transcripts and know the environment
going on, it was obvious they were reaching out to transportation experts,
engineering experts.
MS. MURMAN:
The staff was.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So.... Right.
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah. Because the CCNA, they had the 9 firms that

we had the contracts with already.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. The 10 firms.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
I just want to make sure I'm correct. That's why....

Sure.
MS. MURMAN:
And they were reaching out to them. Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right. So in essence, Beth's saying that you called her and just gave her
hey, they're calling engineering firms now because then in turn she calls
George, she calls Bob, and then we see the conversations.
MS. MURMAN:
I honestly I don't know why I would've told her that.

She probably asked me and you know...
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, you reached out to her.
MS. MURMAN:
Well, I did because I was probably returning a phone

call early in the day.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
Because she would call a lot and sometimes I didn't

return the calls.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But 40, 40 minutes is a good long time. And in thinking about not your
relationship now, because obviously there's, there's some straining there
with this whole thing.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Strain?
There's some strain.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
When somebody uses you? Yes.

Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. It is.
Okay. Is that how you feel?
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, yeah.
That she used you?
MS. MURMAN:
Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
No doubt in my mind. She used me. Used the

friendship. Whatever you want to call it too for her personal gain.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. To put her in position and essentially Parsons in position to

succeed?
MS. MURMAN:
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. By her contract, which you had an opportunity.... I mean, isn't that
her job in a way to introduce Parsons, get into... to be an insider.
MS. MURMAN:
She was well positioned, but she should have

registered as a lobbyist. I mean, that would have made it all aboveboard.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MS. MURMAN:
And we would have, you know, it would have been

clear to everybody.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So is that a... not to lay blame, but a fault in the definition of a lobbyist for
Hillsborough County ordinance?
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
That's why we're clarifying in our new ordinance.

Okay.
MS. MURMAN:
And really, I mean a 40 minute phone call with her

was never unusual.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. Oh, no. Based on the records, it appears that way.
MS. MURMAN:
I mean, and I mean it could have covered anything.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. Given the environment at the time.
MS. MURMAN:
But I... but would I have said that to her? I mean, I

wouldn't have had a reason to just say oh, by the way, I'm calling you
because of, you know, they're going out to engineering firms.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, I'm not saying that would've been the only reason you called her, but
you know it's a long conversation so a lot is being said and to think about
what your relationship was at the time, which I think you all were probably
pretty good friends at the time.
MS. MURMAN:
Yeah. I mean, she.... I mean it's hard to say. I mean

she was just the type of person that she just kind of... it's like Columbo, if
you ever watch those old movies where he would just attach himself to
you, she'd just attach herself to you and until you step away, you know,
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like I'm having to do these past few months, you really understand what
her motives really were.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So now that you reflect on everything that's happened.
MS. MURMAN:
Oh, yeah. Definitely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Alright. I think that's all I have. You guys have anything?
DET. PORTALATIN:
I don't.
DET. CLARK:
I don't have any questions.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Anything else you'd like to say, ma'am?
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
I said it all.
Okay. I think this... I'd say if we have another question may we approach
you, but I don't think we have any more.
MS. MURMAN:
Or call me on the phone.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. Sure.
MS. MURMAN:
Over the holidays, I won't be around here next week,

but you know, I may be out of town.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. No problem.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
But if anything this week or by phone.

Okay. Thank you. I'll stop the recording.
MS. MURMAN:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Please feel free.

It's 11:09 a.m.
End of interview.
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Attachment Description: SCOTT STROMER INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:
For: 4602

2015-691857
Corporal Charles Hollis, ABN 5603, interviews Scott Stromer, Director of
Procurement Services, in the presence of Detective Trent Clark, ABN 173949,
and Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222493.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Today is October 30, 2015. The time is now 2:28 p.m. This is Corporal
interview being conducted is in reference to the GO Hillsborough
investigation with the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office and that case
number is 15-691857. This interview is on the 25th floor of the county
building. Sir, would you state your full name, please?
MR. STROMER:
Yes. Scott P. Stromer. S-t-r-o-m-e-r.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And Mr. Stromer, you're aware our conversation is being recorded?
MR. STROMER:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. STROMER:
Yes, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
DET. PORTALATIN:
DET. CLARK:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Mr. Stromer, would you raise your right hand, sir? Do you swear and affirm
the information you'll provide today is the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth.
MR. STROMER:
Yes, I do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. And just by way of introduction, what's your title here?
MR. STROMER:
Director of Procurement Services.
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Case No: 2015-691857
Re: Interview of Scott Stromer
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And can you just kind of touch on what that means?
MR. STROMER:
Yeah. Overseeing all the procurements for the Board of County

Commissioners.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. STROMER:
And I've been here for, I think I arrived January, late January is when I
started this position of this year.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Of this year?
MR. STROMER:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And prior to that where were you employed?
MR. STROMER:
I was Purchasing Director of Pasco County for the prior 17 years.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And what did you do in Pasco.
MR. STROMER:
The Director of Purchasing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh, okay. So just all purchasing. Any kind of procurement processes

there?
MR. STROMER:
The same thing. Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. STROMER:
The Board of County Commissioners. The same thing. Yep.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But in Pasco County.
MR. STROMER:
But in Pasco County.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And that was for... I'm sorry, 17 years?
MR. STROMER:
17 years.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So what drew you over to Hillsborough County?
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MR. STROMER:
It's just a great opportunity. It's a great organization. They've always had a
great reputation, so absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And who did you replace?
MR. STROMER:
Well, Tom Fesler oversaw both Procurement and Office of Management

Budget. But I think they actually had a Director of Purchasing for about, I
think about 5 years or so. So there was kind of a gap when the down drift
of the economy, I think kind of just doubled up some duties.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. STROMER:
So I'm not sure exactly who I....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, John Hollingshead, was he... did he cover that?
MR. STROMER:
He was the Division Director. Right. He kind oversaw the day to day stuff
here before Tom Fesler was acting, who was the director of the
department at the time.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So to say in January 2015, obviously that's way after this Go

Hillsborough and seeing that process, but since you've been here have
you been able to witness any other procurement processes and how they
do them?
MR. STROMER:
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. How many have you seen?
MR. STROMER:
Well, I don't.... It's hard to say. Since January, I couldn't even guess. I
mean it's tens.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. In comparing your work experience with Pasco County, were they
very similar?
MR. STROMER:
Oh, very similar.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is there a manual or something that you kind of use as a guide?
MR. STROMER:
Yep. The county has a Procurement Policy and Procedures Manual.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Was that very similar to what you used in Pasco County?
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MR. STROMER:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright.
MR. STROMER:
The processes are very similar.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So can you just walk through a typical process?
MR. STROMER:
For competitive bids?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes. Well, I guess one that would be similar to Go Hillsborough, which

is....
MR. STROMER:
Yeah. This would've been a CCNA process where they use the
Consultants Competitive Negotiation Act, which the statutes require for
engineers, architects, that level of service. So generally you'll get a scope
of work from a department. It'll go out into a competitive vehicle. The
statutes are very clear on CCNA, that there are going to price components
there and all. It's all qualifications based. Proposals come back or the
statements of qualifications come back. A committee is convened. That
committee evaluates those based on the criteria that were established in
the first step. And then once the short list, they select, negotiate an
agreement, go to the board. It depending where you are if it goes to the
board first or if it's negotiations happen first or after when the board
approves it, but it's basically the process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And when you came on, were you aware of any issues that were
going on with the Go Hillsborough project?
MR. STROMER:
No. Not at all.
CPL. HOLLIS:
It's been since you came over in that position, did you have time, an
opportunity I guess to work with Parsons or any of their representatives on
this project?
MR. STROMER:
I haven't. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. That's separate from really your line of work?
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MR. STROMER:
Yeah. For me I would deal with that anyway. I mean, at that point it was
the contract with the department and I didn't have any interaction with
Parsons or anybody.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. On a situation of a Direct Select, is that something that you used in

Pasco?
MR. STROMER:
No. We didn't.... In Pasco we didn't really have a rotation. We didn't use

the rotation method. We really would kind of bundle projects and select an
architect or engineer for that bundle of projects and then we did it that
way, which it's another way of doing it. So we didn't do a Direct Select
there.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. When you came here to Hillsborough County, was that the first time
you had heard about the Direct Select.
MR. STROMER:
Well, I've heard about it before. I mean, I've been doing this for probably
24, 25 years, so before... just to let you know, before Pasco, I was at City
of Lights in Nebraska for 7 years, too.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. STROMER:
I'm originally from Nebraska, so it's not uncommon. I've heard of it. It's
nomenclature. I mean it's....
CPL. HOLLIS:
What would be the reason for a Direct Select?
MR. STROMER:
If you have a rotation, usually if you have a list of 10; which is pretty
common, a list of 10 or 20 firms where you've kind of prequalified them.
They're capable of doing certain work. Direct Select will have... usually will
try to go to the next rotation if there's no scope of work..if it's an
intersection of whatever it is. If that firm doesn't have a certain expertise,
usually there's some internal discussions to look at and they may skip and
just justify whether they're going to go to another firm. Just skip that in that
rotation.
CPL. HOLLIS:
For a normal procurement like in this case, a CCNA type of deal, what's
the average time that usually takes?
MR. STROMER:
It really depends on the organization. It really depends on the size of the

organization.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
That you're looking at or the one that's doing the procurement?
MR. STROMER:
The one that's doing the procurement.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. STROMER:
Yeah. It just depends on the processes within. Hillsborough is just wellknown for really solid procurement. They have a very deliberate process.
They document everything. Here, I mean this particular contract, it was
around 10 months it took to get from, when the scope was identified, all
the way through getting the contracts. So I would say it's fair to say that a
CCNA if it's a... if everything is just firing on all cylinders, it can take
probably 4 months because you have to navigate the board of meetings
and all of that. The biggest time on those things are really the committees;
getting those committees together, the negotiations, scheduling
presentations if that's what you're going to do. So between 4 months and
10 months it's not uncommon.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So the reason to use a Direct Select would obviously be to cut down on

time.
MR. STROMER:
If you were in a time crunch and if the continuing contracts it's very
acceptable. Especially if you're, you know, in this case they were up
against some deadlines when they were doing it. And it's important that,
you know, whenever engineering or one of those covered services, be
landscape, architecture or engineering, architectural proper, if that's going
to be the majority of the work, you really have to go down that CCNA
process. And it's very... in this organization, like a lot, and I certainly did in
Pasco, if you know that that's what's going to be, the CCNA process is a
more tedious, more deliberate... it's the higher level process. You can do
an RFP, but you can always get questioned. If you go to an RFP and say
well, we didn't really know. But if comes out that engineering was the
majority of the service, you really had to do a CCNA process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I know you came after the decision was made to do the Direct Select
and all that, but given everything that's going on thus far, would the CCNA
process, that procurement process had been a better, more appropriate
method as opposed to the Direct Select?
MR. STROMER:
Well, the Direct Select was a follow on. They did use the CCNA process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, yeah, for the 53 down to 10.
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MR. STROMER:
Okay. You mean when they saw that scope of work to do a completely
separate process for...?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, when Mike Merrill was at the board meeting and eventually directed,
hey, we need to hire an outside firm to help us with this transportation
project.
MR. STROMER:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I understand there was some kind of time constraint there and they
used, obviously, they used the ones they already had under contract to
see if they qualified for this now new scope of work.
MR. STROMER:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But just given all the, all that's going on now, I know we're Monday
morning quarterbacking.
MR. STROMER:
Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But would it have been a better process just to go ahead and do a new
procurement?
MR. STROMER:
It's hard for me to say. Just not knowing what all conditions were, What
was going on. It's really hard to say.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I mean we watched the presentation you gave in October. A very

good PowerPoint. Just broke down everything and you made, just from
my memory, that if you were here you would've followed the same
process.
MR. STROMER:
If the same conditions faced with their faced, because I read the Policy
Leadership Group, everything that was sandwiched in there. It was very
clear, they already had a continuing contract. Parsons was already under
contract up to $4 million. So yeah, given those same exact situation, it
was the most prudent way to do it and I would've recommended the same
course.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Because a lot of this project was really about public outreach.
MR. STROMER:
Okay.
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
And reaching out to the public, would it have been better to go with a firm.
Even though I know one of the commissioners said not a public relations
firm, but it would've been more appropriate to know which firm you're
choosing that has that kind of expertise in there prior to selecting?
MR. STROMER:
I don't know. Again, the majority of the work was going to be engineering.
When you went back and looked at everything, obviously what they were
after, they were trying to find which projects, what were those projects
going to cost? What was it going to cost maintain those projects and the
road projects, all of that? It was going to have to be an engineer that was
going to know that stuff. The amount of work that was going to be the PR,
the outreach running those meetings, getting that engagement piece was
relatively small compared to the engineering piece. They wanted
engineers and obviously the PLG, the Policy Leadership was very clear.
We don't want a PR firm. We want somebody that knows what they're
doing because they were looking back at the last time they did this and we
wanted to make sure we do this differently. We want to make sure that
when we go to the citizens, they have the data. They have actual stuff
they can grab onto. So no, it would have been.... Again, it's hard, you
know, to predict, but I think that if they had gone down that path there
would've been probably more severe criticism if they had gone through
say a typical RFP process and aiming toward.... Because to use a CCNA
process for a PR firm, that's not what that's for and you would be criticized
why did you do that and you had a firm that's already under contract. Why
wouldn't you just use them and.... Because the county has a very robust
protest policy as well, so even if you went through the entire process, if
somebody was going to challenge you, that can easily chew up a couple
months as well. That was going to be another two or three months,
because if it went all the way to hearing master.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Have you heard of any, since you mentioned the protest, have any of the
companies that weren't chosen. Obviously they're still under the contract.
MR. STROMER:
Sure. Sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
From 2014. Have they protested or made any...?
MR. STROMER:
I'm not aware of any. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
When you were in Pasco County, did you ever have a time or a chance to
work with Beth Leytham?
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Case No: 2015-691857
MR. STROMER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Have you ever met her?
MR. STROMER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And when was the first time you heard her name?
MR. STROMER:
Just during this thing. I think in the newspaper article. That was it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Are you aware of any influence that she had in the choosing of
Parsons as the contractor?
MR. STROMER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. STROMER:
No. I'm not.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Are you aware of any influence that maybe commissioners had on getting
Parsons ultimately chosen?
MR. STROMER:
No. Not at all. Again, Parsons already had a contract for $4 million and
they were under contract. Now if the question is did she have influence on
who was selected, I mean that's where the department had gone through
and I don't.... Again, that stuff was all happening at the department level at
the Public Works Department, so Procurement is not really involved.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I mean you weren't even here at that time.
MR. STROMER:
No. Not at all.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But I was just since you've been active here.
MR. STROMER:
You mean since I've been here? No. I haven't. Not at all.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Never heard anything?
MR. STROMER:
Nope. Nope.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright, sir.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. STROMER:
Other than what's in the newspaper and you know those stories.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
MR. STROMER:
Yeah. No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You mind if these guys ask you...?
MR. STROMER:
No, no. Absolutely.
DET. CLARK:
I don't have any.
DET. PORTALATIN:
None here.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Any questions for me, sir or...?
MR. STROMER:
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
If there came a time where we needed to come and talk to you, would that
be okay?
MR. STROMER:
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I'll stop the recording. It's 2:40 p.m.
End of interview.
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Attachment Description: STACY WHITE INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:

2015-691857
Corporal Charles Hollis, ABN 5603, Detective Trent Clark, ABN 173949, interview
Stacy White, County Commissioner in the presence of Detective Sam Portalatin,
ABN 222593.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Today is November 17, 2015. It's 11:17 a.m. This is

Corporal Charles Hollis, ABN 5603. This interview is being conducted in
reference to the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office Go Hillsborough
investigation 15-691857. This interview is being conducted at the county
building on the second floor. I'm with Commissioner White. Sir, would you
state your full name, please?
MR. WHITE:
Stacy White.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WHITE:
And you spell S-t-a-c-y?

Correct.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And you're aware our conversation is being

recorded?
MR. WHITE:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WHITE:

Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
For: 4602
Thank you. And also present for the interview....
DET. PORTALATIN:
DET. CLARK:
CPL. HOLLIS:
And Commissioner White, would you raise your right

hand, sir? Do you swear or affirm the information you will provide today
will be the truth, the whole and nothing but the truth?
MR. WHITE:
I do.
Page 813 of 1954


SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
Re: Interview of Stacy White
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. And by way of introduction, how long have

you been a commissioner?
MR. WHITE:
Almost exactly 1 year. I know my legislative aide Megan just told me that
we're coming up on the one year anniversary, so right at a year.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So 2014 and we're already in November. So

you would've come then obviously after the TED Group or the PLG was
formed, is that right?
MR. WHITE:
That is correct. I came on to the commission in November of 2014.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WHITE:
Okay. And who did you replace or...?

I replaced Commissioner... let me see if I can state this correctly.
Technically I replaced Commissioner Al Higginbotham.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WHITE:
Right.
But Commissioner Al Higginbotham replaced Mark Sharpe for the
countywide seat.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I got you.
MR. WHITE:
So Mark Sharpe came off of the board and I came onto the board,
although technically I replaced Commissioner Higginbotham.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Got you. So since you were brought in I guess after

the PLG, were you kind of instructed as hey, you're going to join this group
now and did you kind of get filled in on what that was about?
MR. WHITE:
Yeah. Absolutely. So I was made aware that the group

had been up and running and you know, as a candidate, you know,
reading the papers and following county business, I was aware of the
existence of the PLG and certainly I really didn't view it as optional. You
know, my understanding was that the 7 commissioners have membership
in the PLG and, you know, so I just viewed myself as just moving right in
as taking a position on the PLG.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did you grow up here in Hillsborough County?
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. WHITE:
I did.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And were you kind of involved in, I guess,

knowing what was going on politically, even back in 2010 during the tax
referendum attempt.
MR. WHITE:
Absolutely. So I was actually elected to the Hillsborough County School

Board in 2010.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WHITE:
And served there for 4 years, so I was definitely already politically involved
and you know, was around to see the 2010 referendum, you know, be
pitched and ultimately fail in Hillsborough County.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. What was your understanding as to why the

PLG or the TED Group was created?
MR. WHITE:
You know, my understanding was that it was to take an unbiased look at

the transportation situation and come up with not only a plan but a solution
as well. Now, you know the perception by many was that it was to, you
know, ultimately push for a referendum, but in my mind PLG was always
build was taking just an unbiased look at transportation and again, for a
solution not necessarily being a sales tax referendum.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. But I guess the main goal obviously would be...

I mean, you've got all these transportation needs how are you going to
pay for.
MR. WHITE:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And one of the ways would've been or is, you know,

proposed to be the tax referendum.
MR. WHITE:
Absolutely. You know, gas tax was also on the table; an extension of our
existing CIT tax was also on the table just to name a couple of examples.
Some other potential functions for solutions.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So when you came on in November of 2014,

Parsons Brinckerhoff was already selected.
MR. WHITE:
Correct.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did you have any involvement in their

selection?
MR. WHITE:
I did not.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Did you have any input on their selection?
MR. WHITE:
I did not.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. When you came on as commissioner, was

there any training that you had as far as ethical training, Sunshine Law
training?
MR. WHITE:
That's available through various resources, such as the Florida

Association of Counties. Now as a school board member, we had the
same ethics requirements that a county commissioner would have, so
certainly I have been through some ethics courses. I had done my
required training. It's required of you each year. I believe that started in
2014, if I'm not mistaken.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WHITE:
Okay.
They require annual training for elected officials.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WHITE:
Okay. So that's an annual thing that you go through.

Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WHITE:
Is that in person? Is that online? Is that...?

It can be either, but I did mine by means of a webinar.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WHITE:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Very good. Umm..(talking in background).. saw that

we're recording. So you roll as a commissioner, how would you define
that?
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. WHITE:
Well, the 7 member county commission is essentially the board of
directors for Hillsborough County. We control Hillsborough County. We
hire the county administrator, which is Mike Merrill...
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
MR. WHITE:
At the current time to serve as CEO of the county and run the day to day
operations of the county and then it, you know, goes down the chain of
command from there, so I viewed my role as, you know, being to make
decisions; you know, business decisions for the county, to direct the
county administrator, to serve our constituents in Hillsborough County as
they, you know, approach our office about various issues that could range
from a pot hole in front of their house to a loose dog in the neighborhood.
Whatever the case may be.
CPL. HOLLIS:
As a commissioner, do you hold yourself to a high

standard as far as ethically and just your ideology of how you go about
your day to day life?
MR. WHITE:
Yeah, so that's how I live my life day to day, you know, even outside of the
context of being a commissioner. I'm a pharmacist by profession. We're at
or near the top of the most trusted professionals for many, many years.
You know, I definitely hold myself to that high standard.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you. How do you protect yourself to make sure

you're following the Sunshine Laws to make sure, you know, those things
are being followed?
MR. WHITE:
Sure. So I am very stringent when I it comes to assuring that I'm following

the Sunshine Laws. I really don't even like to get together with other
commissioners even on a social level, which is legal. You know, a couple
of commissioners can legally get together and have breakfast or lunch
and talk about, you know, how's your family doing, that type of thing, but I
tend to avoid even those types of situations just so that there's not even
any perception that I can be talking to another commissioner about county
business. Any time I'm talking to someone other than a commissioner, I'm
always careful to make sure that there's, you know, not conversations that
could, you know, turn into a conduit between commissioners.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WHITE:
Sure.
And that sort of thing, so....
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. With text messages and obviously technology,

how do you.... I know in this particular thing when we had requested text
messages, you had nothing in response to our request.
MR. WHITE:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Is that still accurate?
MR. WHITE:
Yeah. If we could go over the request just to be sure if that's accurate. I

will look.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. Well particularly any communication between

Beth Leytham, Parsons Brinckerhoff. Any members, you know, associated
with the Go Hillsborough project.
MR. WHITE:
Right. Yeah. It's absolutely true. I have no records to provide.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WHITE:
How do you normally communicate?

I do like to use text messaging. You know, sometimes if you're busy in a
meeting or that type of thing, it's easy to you know fire away a text
message.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. WHITE:
And send and receive messages that way, but I'm a talker too, so when
I'm able to, I'll pick up the phone and you know, talk to folks verbally.
CPL. HOLLIS:
During this investigation, we found that Mike Merrill

has been probably one of the better ones of how he keeps track, because
he has a system through his text messages that he downloads to and we
actually got some between you and him.
MR. WHITE:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Not talking about Go Hillsborough.
MR. WHITE:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Other issues, but we found that he was pretty good

about that. Do you have a system sort of like that or how do you do that?
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. WHITE:
Admittedly I don't.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WHITE:
You know, I just, you know, really keep track of my own text messages,
you know, on the phone. You know, certainly I rely on my carrier to, my
provider to have, you know, backups in the text as well.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Is it something where you keep it on your

phone and maybe just save it is requested or...?
MR. WHITE:
Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. If something were to happen to where your

phone would be, all the memory would be wiped out for some other
reason, do you have a backup plan besides the carrier?
MR. WHITE:
Yeah. Admittedly I don't at this point, so you know, I probably need to, you
know, maybe get with Mike Merrill and learn a little bit about the system
that he's using, that type of thing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Alright. Okay. Obviously, emails are pretty easy. It

goes to a central server, but unfortunately there is not really a main hub
that texts...
MR. WHITE:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
You know, are used for, but that seems to be the way
of communication for a lot of people.
MR. WHITE:
Absolutely and we just discussed that recently as a board, so I think you're

going to see a more a solid system for archiving text messages.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Very good. Do you know Beth Leytham? I mean

obviously now her name's been brought out with this whole process.
MR. WHITE:
I am familiar with Beth Leytham. I can recall meeting her face to face on
one occasion. That's the only occasion that I can recall meeting her and
I'm happy to go into it to detail on that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure. Go for it.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. WHITE:
So in...it was when I was running for this seat and so it would've been in
late 2013 or earlier in 2014. I don't recall the exact time frame, but just
knowing you know when I filed for office and when I was elected. It
would've been somewhere in that ballpark. Late 2013, early 2014. And I
was connected with a local real estate developer named Rick Harcrow,
which is with... oh, what's the name of the.... It's the firm that's doing
Waterset and they've also done a lot of work in Fishhawk.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WHITE:
Okay.
It's on the tip of my tongue, but anyway, I had breakfast with him one
morning at, I believe it was at First Watch in Brandon and Beth came
along to that meeting with him. She was representing that builder in some
way, shape, or form at that time probably doing some public relations
work. Knowing what I know now as a commissioner, you know, it probably
had to do with the Apollo Beach Boulevard extension and the flyover over
I-75.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WHITE:
Okay.
You know, that type of thing. You know, there's been a little bit of
controversy surrounding some of that. So Beth was there at that meeting
and really for some reason I just always associated Beth, you know, in
that context and obviously now I know that she's more globally involved in
public relations efforts and certainly I, you know, know that she's been at
least associated with the Parsons Brinckerhoff situation.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WHITE:
So Rick Harcrow ultimately contributed to my campaign. I believe Beth

may have as well. I'd have to look back at my campaign finance records.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes, sir. We have those and I believe, yeah, she's

contributed to all commissioners.
MR. WHITE:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WHITE:
From my recollection.
Yeah. But that is the one and only time that I can really recall meeting her
in a meaningful one on one setting.
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And it appeared she was representing that

group from a lobbying, but from just a public outreach type of situation.
MR. WHITE:
Without a doubt.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WHITE:
Okay.
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WHITE:
Was she trying to I guess get them business?

You know it was kind of interesting, you know, because the breakfast was
set with Rick Harcrow and you know, I thought it was just going to be he
and I and Beth was there. I think she was just there just, you know, more
or less because she was working with him at the time.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WHITE:
Okay.
And you know.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Very good.
MR. WHITE:
Just representing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Were you... are you aware if Beth was under contract

with Parsons prior to the Go Hillsborough project?
MR. WHITE:
That I'm not sure of.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WHITE:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What is your opinion of how...? I know you came in

after they were already selected and obviously you've probably been filled
in on how that process happened and now there's a lot of backlash, public
scrutiny as to that process.
MR. WHITE:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
What is your opinion of how it was handled?
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. WHITE:
Boy. You know, certainly I don't like I guess no bid situations for lack of a
better term, but you know, as a commissioner that wasn't on board at the
time, I mean I'm hearing the auditor and the County Attorney's Office and
the county administrator saying it was, you know, all handled legally and
above board. So admittedly I don't know that I know enough of the fine
details of the matter since I wasn't intimately involved with it at the time to
really have a firm opinion on that. I just know that the assessment has
been that at a bare minimum that it's been done in a way that's legal and
above board.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And I know it's easy because of the media reports

that have been out there to take text messages or to take communications
not knowing the context to make assumptions based on that.
MR. WHITE:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And then just to assume because, you know, Beth

may be associated with this person or this person that she had influence
in there and obviously that's one of the things we're looking into. Are you
aware of any influence that she had?
MR. WHITE:
Not aware of any.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Are you aware of any commissioners being influential

in getting Parsons hired?
MR. WHITE:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. I noticed in the October 2015 meeting, you

know, this last month where you made the motion to cancel the Parsons
Brinckerhoff contract. What was the purpose of that?
MR. WHITE:
Yeah. The purpose of that was that, you know, obviously constituents
reach out to the commissioners. You know, I'd been getting lots of emails,
lots of phone calls, and you know, my decision would clearly be outside of
the context of what we're talking about today, but at that point in time, and
you know, please make sure that I'm not talking about any point in time
previous or looking back retroactively, but at that very moment in time I
saw the process as tainted. And you know, I just felt like it would be best
for the county commission to, you know, separate itself from Parsons
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SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
Brinckerhoff at that point and move forward in the transportation
discussion without them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Thank you. I know you said you met Beth that
one time. Has there been any other conversations that you've had with
her?
MR. WHITE:
Not that I can recall.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Has she given you advice on anything?
MR. WHITE:
Never.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Not tried to.... Has she tried to, I guess, lead
you a certain way in thinking on certain issues? Has she reached out?
MR. WHITE:
Not at all. Because again, keep in mind that the only really meaningful
interaction that I've had with her was at breakfast that morning and that
was all of an hour.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Lobbying has been made an issue during this

whole process. What is the process you understand for lobbying or for
lobbyists to come here?
MR. WHITE:
Yeah. So my understanding of the lobbying ordinance is that lobbyists

have to sign in in the front desk when they come to visit with a
commissioner and it's also my understanding that there's a gift ban in
place whereby commissioners can't accept a gift of any kind from a
lobbyist no matter how small, you know.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
MR. WHITE:
I know, you know, when I've met with lobbyists on other issues, let's say
over lunch, you know, I always pay my own way and they pay their own
way and you know, I think at least the good lobbyist out there will be clear
with you that, you know, commissioner, I can't pick up the tab for lunch
because of my status as a lobbyist.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. So you found in that process you found those

that have been ethical and proper and obviously there's a reason for
lobbyists and there's a good reason to have them.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. WHITE:
Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
But obviously there's rules in place to make sure that

certain things are followed.
MR. WHITE:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So in your experience, have you found that to be

accurrate?
MR. WHITE:
Absolutely. In my experience in dealing with a lobbyist that I know, they've

been very ethical in those regards.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Are you aware of any ethical issues regarding

the lobbying? Because I know that's been made an issue obviously with
Beth.
MR. WHITE:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
And just the whole process of how the lobbying takes

place.
MR. WHITE:
Outside of just the general reputation of lobbyists, I mean I don't

personally know of any unethical behavior, you know, by lobbyists in
Hillsborough County.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Thank you. If, and we have kinda asked this of

everybody and I know it's easy to Monday morning quarterback, but if you
could kind of look back and change anything would there be a change in
the process? And I know you came in afterwards, but just knowing kind
what you know now.
MR. WHITE:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WHITE:
Anything you'd change at all?

Yeah. I think, again I'm not a procurement expert and I'm not an attorney,
but you know, I think it would've been nice to just have, you know, multiple
ranked firms on the table and give the commission and opportunity to, you
know, vote a recommendation up or down in that context versus just, you
know, having Parsons Brinckerhoff laid on the plate the way it was.
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. During the time, and you weren't part of that,
one of the, I guess, the fences of why they went the direction they did by
doing a direct select was because of time issues.
MR. WHITE:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
So if the plan was to put the referendum on the 2016

ballot, doing another whole another procurement would've taken an
additional, we've heard a range from 4 months to 8 months to 10 months.
MR. WHITE:
Yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
That would've... would that have been a... is that a

legitimate factor I guess?
MR. WHITE:
I mean I can only speak for myself as a commissioner. I mean, if I were on

board at the time, my question of staff would've been okay, why didn't you
start the process 8 or 10 months earlier. You know?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sure.
MR. WHITE:
Whether or not that question would've gotten any traction, you know, who
knows, but I think that's a fair and legitimate question.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Thank you. If these detectives have any

questions for you is that okay?
MR. WHITE:
Oh, sure.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Oh sure?
DET. CLARK:
Reference the procurement process or direct select, you said that you at
the time you weren't aware of that or you weren't aware of that process.
Have you been... has anybody instructed you about the process of direct
select or have you studied up on that?
MR. WHITE:
Yes. So the internal auditor has went over that with me in a one on one
meeting ahead of presenting it to the whole board, you know, so the whole
board has received a presentation on it at this point. So I'm somewhat up
to speed on that process now.
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DET. CLARK:
With those groups being pared down from 50, 53, all the way down to the
10 and then having those qualified firms being on the short list, are there
any firms on that list that you had any objections to for any reason?
CPL. HOLLIS:
Admittedly, since I wasn't on the board at the time, I

can't even recall which other firms were on the list, so I can't really speak,
you know, one way or another whether I would or would not have any
objects. I'm relatively new to this arena, so you know, admittedly I, you
know, don't have long term knowledge or workings with these firms, so I
would venture to say that I would be likely to not have any issues with any
of the other firms that made the short list if you will.
DET. CLARK:
Well, part of the selection process, if one of the top firms is unhappy or
objects to not being selected or being ranked improperly, there is a
process of objecting.
CPL. HOLLIS:
DET. CLARK:
A grievance I think is the process.

A grievance process.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes.
DET. CLARK:
From our understanding, none of the firms have filed a grievance stating
that they were improperly positioned or not selected.
MR. WHITE:
Okay.
DET. CLARK:
Are you aware of any objections to... from other commissioners, about any
other firm?
MR. WHITE:
I am not. I thought I had that silenced. (music in background)
CPL. HOLLIS:
That's just that Florida Gator fan coming out.
MR. WHITE:
Yeah. Let me just silence that right now.
CPL. HOLLIS:
No problem.
MR. WHITE:
Okay.
DET. CLARK:
And my.... The last part of my question then would be reference to training
for Sunshine. It's my understanding that when a public official comes, gets
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Case No: 2015-691857
elected and comes to the board, from the first day that they are placed in
that position that they are responsible for Sunshine.
MR. WHITE:
I'm under the same impression.
DET. CLARK:
Yes, sir.
MR. WHITE:
So I think what you're referring to is that gap between when you're elected
or chosen by the people versus when you're sworn in at the dais and I'm
under the same impression that Sunshine Laws apply to you during that
time period as well.
DET. CLARK:
Yeah. And for when it comes to a training, do you have any

recommendations for the process as far as getting everybody on the same
table, up to speed, because you're the newest member, correct?
MR. WHITE:
I'm the newest member. Yes.
DET. CLARK:
Well, do you have any recommendations, just off the top of your head,
about the Sunshine... the training itself?
MR. WHITE:
You know, certainly I don't think it would be too much to ask of the county
attorney to reach out to newly elected commissioners on election night,
give them a quick 15 minute session over the telephone and then you
know, tell the new commissioner at that point that I'd like to meet with you
just as soon as possible to go over the Sunshine Laws and other things
that you may need to know as a newly elected commissioner. Because
often times, and I experienced this on the school board as well, I think a
lot of newly elected officials see that take place after they're sworn in and
settled into the office, so to your point, it's probably not too much to ask of
staff to make sure that they're touching newly elected officials during that
gap period if you will.
DET. CLARK:
As far as lobbyists... I know that we know that they sign in. Sometimes
they can, well people can come in for personal reasons and then it may
turn into a business meeting. What would be the process of amending the
book out in the front so that it correctly represents the actual meeting?
MR. WHITE:
I'm not aware of any such process. A process may exist, but I'm not...
certainly not aware of such a process.
DET. CLARK:
That's it.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And I know that there's been, I guess, a

movement to change the lobbying process.
MR. WHITE:
Yes.
CPL HOLLIS:
Are there any recommendations you have as far as...?
MR. WHITE:
You know, it's difficult because you know

commissioners are mobile. We're in our office, we're out in the field, we
take meetings in various places. You know, I think that the onus is on the
lobbyist more times than not to make sure that they're following the letter
of the law with respect to documenting when they've had contact with a
commissioner and that type of thing, so....
CPL. HOLLIS:
Do you think if the violation were... instead of I think it's just a fine. Well,
you know, you're barred from coming by the first violation and it's basically
a fine. Do you think if that process, I guess, was more punishable or... you
know, that it would have more of an affect and people not violating that?
MR. WHITE:
I think so. I think any time you up the ante on the

punishment, you know, you see better results and you know, certainly any
lobbyist out there is going to tell you that they're ethical and follow the
letter of the law and you know, why not put your money where your mouth
is and you know, if it's punishable, you know, and more strict of a way with
a higher fine or whatever the case may be, then you know folks are
following the letter law it really shouldn't be an issue either way.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. And I know when we first talked, you mentioned

about not even really being friends with commissioners or being seen just
for the, you know, presumptuousness of how it would appear. Is there a
particular commissioner though that you would go to for advice since
you're kind of new to the commission?
MR. WHITE:
You know, and keep in mind that the word advice would have to be in a
very limited context because of the Sunshine Laws.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WHITE:
Sure.
But for example, I'm under the impression that it's okay to talk about say
procedural things for example. So I would tend to go to Commissioner
Hagan next door. You know, he's been a commissioner for a very, very
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long time, so if I had a question of him, you know, outside of the context of
the Sunshine Laws. You know, not how are you going to vote on this or
how should I vote on it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WHITE:
Sure.
But you know, how would we do X, Y, Z procedurally. I think he would be a
commissioner that I would go to for that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
DET. PORTALATIN:
Okay. Very good. I don't think we have anything else.

No, sir.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Anything you'd like to say, sir?
MR. WHITE:
No. You know just again you know as a relatively new commissioner. I've
only been on board for a year. You know, I certainly wasn't here when the
nexus of this is being discussed happened, but you know, certainly here to
cooperate with you though and answer any questions that I can to the
best of my ability.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I appreciate it. If a question were to arise later on

down the road and we needed to meet with you is that okay?
MR. WHITE:
Absolutely.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. WHITE:
Okay. I appreciate that.

Alright.
CPL. HOLLIS:
I'll go ahead and stop the recording. Let's see. The

time is 11:45 a.m.
End of interview.
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Attachment Description: VICTOR CRIST INTERVIEW
Reference Number:
SHERIFFS OFFICE
TRANSCRIPT
Date/Time:
Case No:
Re:

2015-691857
Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222593, interview Victor Crist, County
Commissioner
CPL. HOLLIS:
Today is Thursday, December 3, 2015. The time is now 1:11 p.m. This is
Corporal Charles Hollis, ABN 5603, Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office.
This interview is being conducted in reference to the Go Hillsborough
investigation. That case number is 15-691857. This interview is being
conducted at the county building on the second floor. Also present for the
interview....
DET. PORTALATIN:
DET. CLARK:
CPL. HOLLIS:
And sir, would you state your full name, please?
MR. CRIST:
County Commissioner Victor Donald Crist.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Could you spell your last name?

C-r-i-s-t.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
And Commissioner Crist, you're aware our conversation is being

recorded?
Yes. I'm aware it's being recorded. My senior aide, Craig Jewesak is also
present.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
For: 4602
Okay. And I have your permission though to record?

You have my permission to record.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Thank you very much. And sir, would you state your name?
MR. JEWESAK:
My name is Craig Jewesak, legislative aide to County Commissioner

Victor Crist.
Page 831 of 1954


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Case No: 2015-691857
Re: Interview of Victor Crist
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
And sir, would you spell your last name?

J-e-w-e-s-a-k.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Thank you. Okay. And Commissioner, would you raise your right hand,
sir? Do you swear or affirm the information you'll provide today will be the
I do.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Thank you. And so we've been introduced a little bit by your office, all the
plaques and kind of your wealth of work. If you kind of just tell us a little bit
about yourself.
I was born in the great city of New Orleans, Louisiana, about 7th or 8th generation
I believe, and relocated to Florida in 1968 with my family. Grew up in
Pinellas County on the beaches. Attended University of South Florida
where I started a business; Metropolitan Communications advertising
marketing. And made Tampa my home. I've been here ever since. Got
elected to the Florida House of Representatives in 1992 and then I moved
up quickly and was the lead on Justice. Was elected in 2000 to the Florida
Senate where I remained the lead on Justice and got elected to the
Hillsborough County Board of County Commissioners in 2010 where I'm a
lead on nothing. I guess if I'm a lead on anything, it's probably public
transportation.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Okay.
Uber/Lyft.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Okay. Well, yeah. Uber has been in the news as well.

Oh, yeah.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
So in 2010 you became part of the county commission.

Yes.
Did you come on board during the 2010 referendum attempt? Were you
already...?
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MR. CRIST:
That was on the ballot.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
That was on the ballot when you came on board?

Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Okay. Were you part of that process at all?

No. I mean that was an issue I stayed clear of. I wasn't part of it. Knew very little
about it and was not part of my agenda.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Okay. So then 2013, the TED Group, what's now known as Policy
Leadership Group, was established.
Yes.
What role did you take in that?
I was one of many that served on the board.
Okay. Did you have any influence on how that was even formed?
No. Well, as a county commissioner I'm sure I could have, but I was told that we
were starting this group, was given a time, and showed up.
Okay. And to kind of back up a little bit, so when you served in the
legislature in the state of Florida and then now coming to the county, were
there any rules or laws that were different from serving up in Tallahassee
as down here?
Oh, considerably. The Sunshine rule Law was considerably different. Far more
strict here than it was in Tallahassee and I would say that was probably
the most challenging. The relationship with staff is different. The
relationship between members on this floor are different. You know, here
you're an island to yourself. You know, you're like a great big old battleship
out at sea and you sometimes can go days without seeing another ship
and when you do, it may not be a friendly one. It's different than the
legislature where you build coalitions and you cultivate support and you
work with each other to try to get things done. Here, you just don't know
until you go out on the floor and most of the time you're blindsighted.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
And how did you make that transition? Did you go through certain
training? Did you rely on expertise of somebody?
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
All the above. I mean, I met with my predecessors; both of them, which I'm
friends with.
Who did you take the place of?
In advance. Jim Norman, who you know was here for 18 years and a good friend
of mine. You know, I consulted with him. I asked him how he got things
done, what was it like, how to work the system, how does the system work
you, who can I trust, who can I not trust. You know and I just tried to learn
from them the pitfalls and the strengths and weaknesses of serving on the
commission. I tried to meet with each of the existing commissioners prior
to getting elected, you know, to kind of when I could talk to them to kind to
get a feel on who they are and what was important to them, so once I got
here I wouldn't be completely green.
Right.
The only commissioner I really didn't know was Beckner, so I tried to get to know
him in advance and this was before the elections when I could. Al
Higginbotham is the one I've known the longest. He and I are fraternity
brothers.
Okay.
We didn't go to school together. He's older, but I met him 25 plus years ago at an
alumni function and we've had a friendly relationship ever since. I mean,
right now he's not talking to me, but that's politics.
Well, any kind of ethics training or procedural training?
Oh, yeah. Well, in the legislature you go through extensive ethics training right up
front. I mean, it's an entire retreat and it's days of ethics training and role
playing, so of course I had that from my days in the House and the Senate
and then since coming to the county commission, once a year the state
law requires us to have ethics training and rather than do it online or have
a third party coach, I would go to Tallahassee each year and learn from
the judge, the attorney, and the staff director of the ethics commission,
which ultimately is where the buck stops and there's so much that is
subjective in our ethics and Sunshine Law, that I would rather get the
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Case No: 2015-691857
information from the final person who will be making any of the decisions if
in the event something is ever challenged.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
So you took the initiative to do that.

Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
That was not required of you.

Yes.
Are you aware of any other commissioners that have done so?
No. None.
So the other trainings that are mandated I would say would be like an
online training?
It's a joke because it's all.... When you look at our ethics laws, they're very broad
and very subjective and you're going to have questions and try to
understand the parameters and the depths and the best person to ask the
questions of are the ones who are in charge of ultimately making the
decisions at the end.
Right.
If ever challenged.
I mean that shows good on your part that you went that extra step to get
the proper training.
It's too easy to step into crap and nobody wants to do that.
Right.
At least I don't.
Well, especially as you say, you're here on an island by yourself, so
reaching out to commissioners is not something you're allowed to do in
dealing with county business. Is there a time, I mean, you all can talk
socially?
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Case No: 2015-691857
MR. CRIST:
You know, it's never really been the rule to do that because of the perception.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Right.
And so much of the Sunshine Law is based on perception that generally you shy
away from that. Is there social conversation? Yes. Generally, it's in
passing. It's not like we go to dinner. I haven't had a dinner with Kevin
Beckner since before I was elected or a lunch with Al Higginbotham since
prior to our elected. In fact, I showed up at a function a couple of weeks
ago. Ladies Republican Club event and I thought I was going to be the
keynote speaker and they had two of us. They had me and Stacy White
and I said Stacy, we got to be careful. He says well, do one of us need to
leave? I go no, we don't need to leave, but we can't talk about anything
that we're going to vote on. If we do, one of us has got to leave the room.
And so we split up the things to talk about. He talked about the general
nature of what the commission is working on and I talked about the
general nature and philosophy of the commission and how it functions.
But we didn't talk about any issues.
Do you find that as a board you all very well aware of those types of rules
and things to abide by?
I would be shocked if somebody wasn't because there isn't anybody on our
board that isn't experienced. I mean, Stacy's the only one with the least
amount of experience, but he's a very smart man and he did serve on the
school board before coming here. I would say it's a harder transition to go
from the state to local government then it is to go from local government to
the state because it's so much more stringent at the local level.
And you're not the first one that's told us that or that's felt that they're kind
of alone up here on the second floor.
Well, we keep our doors shut on this end of the hall and it's not because we
aren't friendly, it's because we don't know what could get overheard.
Sure.
And it's not that we're trying to keep secrets, it's that we don't want to be accused
of saying something out of the Sunshine.
What is your understanding as far as Sunshine with regards to text
messages, emails, those sort of things?
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TRANSCRIPT
Case No: 2015-691857
MR. CRIST:
If it's in print it's a record. If it is related to or about your position or the entity of
which you have been elected to serve in or about any of the issues or
appropriations or contracts or business thereof, it's a public record. If it's a
personal how are you, how's the kids, how's your wife, you know, is the
gall bladder acting up, happy birthday, Merry Christmas, Happy Kwanzaa,
or do you think you're going to win your election, or did you talk to the
schmuck over at the editorial board, or something of that nature. No, that's
personal.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Or as in recently transitory, if it's a transitory or it's just simple hey, I'll see
you at 5:00. You know, simple one liners that have no real basis to it
unless you're the sender or the receiver and knowing what that person's
talking about.
Say that again.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Transitory.
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Where I send you a message I'll see you at 5:00.

Yeah.
That's... it's just a simple message. Don't know if it's personal. Don't know
if it's about county business.
Well, no. If I see you at 5:00 and it's related to business, it's business.
Well, it is. Yeah. But no one would know that simply where it says I'll see
you at 5:00.
No, that's where I have to make a judgment call.
Right. So there are certain things.
There's a certain level of trust and judgment. There's not an exact.
Well, especially when it comes to.... Obviously, emails they're tracked
when it comes to the county system, but if you're using your personal
email then there are things that you have to do, you have to take the
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Case No: 2015-691857
initiative to save those or to provide those somewhat if you're doing county
business from a personal email standpoint.
MR. CRIST:
Right.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
And as well as the text messages, so....

I have a file called BOCC2. I transfer those things to that file.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
So you take the initiative to do that?

Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
But that's something you have to do.

Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
If something were to happen to your phone, say it got destroyed, lost, is

there a backup that you have for what you keep on your phone if you save
anything on your phone? Do you have a backup in place?
That's a good question. I don't know. I mean, I don't have a system that's
automatic that backs up, but I would just assume that Google or Yahoo or
any of the service providers would have that data somewhere.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Well, let's.... In reference to text messages, you have text on your phone
that....
Well, text messages I forward here.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Okay. So you have a system where you forward them?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking about voicemails. You don't usually keep
voicemails because it takes a lot of data and it fills up space and you
know, you listen to it, you erase, and you move on. So voicemail you don't
usually keep. Nobody keeps those and they're verbal anyway. Text
messages, if they're business related, you know, I like to forward them
over to my email address here at the county and then he.... I don't know
how you file them when you get them?
MR. JEWESAK:
We got folders on the desktop in the computers that have text messages.
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Case No: 2015-691857
CPL. HOLLIS:
Yeah. We've received some texts that you've sent over.
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Yeah, what I do is I forward the text message to my county email address.

Well, that's been a question we've had of others that we've talked to that
just save them on their phone if they're needed then they can do them, but
the question well, what happens if you lose the phone or if it gets
destroyed then whatever you save there is gone.
Well, that's not the reason why I send them over here. The reason I send them
over here is because it's too much of a pain in the ass to go back and try
to find them when people request them and we get so many damn
requests in here, at least I do, that it's just easier if I just automatically
send them when I get them they're there. So when he gets the request he
isn't tracking me down for some time to go through and handpick each
one out.
Sure.
And I'd love to tell you I have this grandiose plan, but in all honesty, you know,
we did it for convenience.
Well, but actually the method you're using is the more appropriate one as
far as safeguarding it.
Now that you positioned it the way that you did, I'm thinking to myself well, you
know, it was a smart decision on my part.
Yes. But I....
Okay. That was an angle we didn't think about.
Well, that's an angle that a number have not with regards to....
Because it's all new territory.
Sure. Sure.
I mean there's not a lot of policy. There's not a lot of rules. There's not a lot of
anything. It's not even a major part of any of the training.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Well, and that was going to be my next question. So I mean does your
legal staff, does Chip Fletcher and his staff do any kind of training with you
when you first came on board or any yearly updates? Anything like that?
No?
MR. CRIST:
Nuttin. Not that I'm aware of. Are you aware of anything?
MR. JEWESAK:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Other than maybe when you first got elected, but there's not a yearly,
quarterly, past update refresher.
I was actually how little if anything was done to on board us here. When I went
into the legislature, it was an entire week of orientation; of you know, a
whole day on just ethics training and a whole day on media training, a
whole day on how to write a bill, a whole day on how to do legislative
research, a whole day in learning where the offices are, who the
officeholders are, how they interrelate, how they operate, and then we
broke up into separate units based on committee assignment areas of
interest where you begin to learn who the players are. But there was a lot
of intensive training. Nothing here. Not even a manual. You know, it was
kind of like here you are.
And you can't talk to anybody around here.
Nope. Here you are.
Yeah. That's kind of....
Like I'm handing you a gun and saying enforce.
Here's your badge and your car and off you go.
Yeah. Yeah.
So... thank you for that insight. So in 2013 when the PLG was formed,
why was it formed?
You know, one of the most concerning issues here at home, each of us have
different priorities, but a common priority of all of us on this floor is
transportation, economic development. There's various levels. I mean you
speak to each one of us, each one of us has a different level. I mean, to
me the main concern is safety on the roads. How safe are our
intersections? How safe are our pedestrians? How safe are our bicyclists?
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To me that's the greatest exposure is having a system that is safe first;
convenience second, and time falls under the convenience category. Now
when I look at the time, most of the time... and all of you live here, so you
would understand this, most of the time we can get from point A to B
within a reasonable period of time. It's during rush hour that we can't. So
that's when we have the transportation issues. So how do you alleviate
that? And everybody's got a different plan. I tend to look at things very
abstract. I like to look at every option like a diamond. Every side of it.
Okay? A train? Well, maybe, maybe not. Are people willing... do they have
the mindset to ride one? No. Even if it came to my front door, I like having
my vehicle. Okay. Knowing that, what portion of my district feels that way?
So you go out, you take a read of your district and each district is different.
Les Miller's district is going to want to get on board. My district is going to
want to keep their BMW.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
And where is your district?

North of Hillsborough.
Okay.
You know, Cheval, Tampa Palms, Hunters Green, Carrollwood, Lutz, Avila.
They're not going to get on a train. And so how do they get from point A to
point B during rush hour? Okay. Maybe an express lane. You know,
maybe taking a look at other corridors that we have and reversing the
traffic flow during that period of time. You know, Florida Avenue and
Nebraska Avenue are southbound between 7:00 and 8:00. I mean, there
are different ways of capitalizing on the resources that we have and that's
kind of how I think.
So for the PLG to be formed, was it solely on trying to...?
It was trying to bring the leaders from the 3 cities, the county, and the major
stakeholders, meaning HART, the Metropolitan Planning Commission, all
to one table so that we could talk about the issue, listen to what each
others perspectives are. Have people who are experts come and address
us collectively so you don't have all this one on one where there could be
different messages to different sets of eyes or it's the same message, but
5 different sets of eyes hear it differently. This way we're all together, we
hear it together, we ask our questions together, and we're together.
Okay.
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MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
And the way I viewed it is that this group would collect data, collect knowledge,
collect ideas, get a read on what the public's interest is, what their
priorities are, get put on the table before us all the potential options of
what we could do along with all of the potential ways to fund it, and then
make a decision and a recommendation and send it to the board of county
commissioners and then the board of county commissioners would
deliberate, debate, massage, tinker, meddle, and finalize a product that
they would move forward.
Okay.
And that's kind of where we are. You know, I agreed the other day to move the
recommendation forward, but I didn't agree to support it. I just felt it was
still worthy of debate, worthy of discussion, and worthy of consideration
and wasn't ready to be killed for politics.
And are you specifically talking about the referendum of the...?
All of it.
Okay.
Right now it's one and I've talked with Mike Merrill and he's agreed to
recommend to the board to split it into two issues. Let us discuss, debate,
and formalize and finalize a plan as one issue in hopes to get collective
support on this floor and a second issue would be to debate, discuss, and
formulate a funding mechanism on how and what we're willing to do to get
it done.
Okay.
And then I gave him a litmus... I told him what my litmus test was going to be on
this if he wanted to keep my support what I would need to see.
Okay. In 2014, the August 2014 PLG meeting; that was the meeting you
recall that you all directed Mike Merrill to hire basically a private firm to
assist.
I don't remember the meeting, but ok.
Okay.
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MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
There's a lot of meetings.

Sure. This particular one you all went ahead and approved Mike Merrill to
move forward in selecting of a firm. Do you remember if there was any
kind of urgency to get that firm, whoever was going to be selected
selected? If we're looking at 2016....
No, I'm just trying to.... There's a lot of mileage. You know, you're asking me to
pull out one particular meeting.
Sure.
I mean right now it's your job to get to the bottom of this, so you're probably up to
your nose and elbows in data. You're asking me to go back and try to
remember one out of a hundred meetings.
Sure.
And they all blend together after a while. I don't really think there was ever a
sense of any urgency other than I know that Mike would like to see
something significantly done under his watch and he is in the twilight
years of his career and I know that he's pushing very hard to move this
issue forward. At the beginning, there were two of us that were very vocal;
me and a city councilman from Tampa and both of us clearly said on the
record that we didn't think that 2016 was the right year for any potential
referendum, that it was still too soon from the last one and that we weren't
that far out of the recession for people to feel comfortable digging deeper
into their pockets; whether conservative or liberal, people still have to pay
their mortgages and the read out of my district is that they weren't ready
for... to give up any more... part with any more money, that they'd rather
see us re-prioritize and that I didn't want to see us shoot our wad to early.
Sure.
If you got one bullet to shoot, you want to make sure your targets dead center in
front of you and I just wasn't sure it was dead center in front of us and if
we go forward with a plan, regardless of what it is and the public rejects it,
then it could be a decade before we could come back.
Well, and you actually addressed that in the meeting and reading the
minutes you talk about....
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MR. CRIST:
So you remember that?
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Oh, yes.
Okay.
And you didn't think that 2016 that that could be done in your opinion, that
2016 couldn't be done in time.
I didn't think it could be done.
But then there are other commissioners or other members that, you know,
sooner is better than later and I mean, there were comments that were
made on trying to....
I'm still not convinced it could be done.
Oh, well. That's, you know, why you are elected.
That's one of the issues on the litmus test for Mike. I told him I needed to one,
clearly see that at least 75 percent of this plan is solid and will render a
recognized return of expectation. I understand that 20, 25 percent in there
is going to have to be fluff because he's got to get support and he's going
to have stick shit in there that people want that may not necessarily be
engineered for an outcome. That's politics. But I need to see at least 75 or
80 percent of this thing solidly an engineered plan that will give us a
measurable outcome towards what the goals and objectives that we are
trying to achieve. I told him that number two, I needed to clearly see a
funding mechanism that wasn't regressive and that was sustainable. Not
something that was a wish on the common maybe and that would retard
any future growth of economic opportunity. Because sometimes taxes or
fees can be regressive. And third, I would need to see that whatever it is
that we do would be well received by the public because if we put all this
work and time and effort into it and we blow the moment, then it's a dead
issue for the next decade.
Right.
And we can't afford for it to be a dead issue for the next decade. So that's the
litmus test he's got to prove to me over the next.... And he agreed to break
it into two parts. He agreed to slow this thing down for 3 or 4 months in
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order to do this and he says that he's hearing basically you know concerns
like that from all over and that I'm not the only one expressing these
concerns.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Very good. The reason I ask about the time constraint, because one of the
critiques that has been brought about is obviously Parsons Brinckerhoff
being brought on.
By the way, I'm a gumaholic.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
That's fine.
Im a
I get these cravings for sugar and it's artificial sugar.

Hey, no problem and if you need to take break, by all means.
No, no. I'm good.

But one of the reasons I was asking about the time constraint issue is
because....
You're only a corporal?
Yes, sir.
Damn, he's sharp for a corporal. Are you guys majors or...?
No. Detectives.
Detectives.
But their very capable.
Alright.
Would the time constraint issue is because Parsons being brought on,
there's been critiques made that they should have done a whole
procurement again before just direct selecting Parsons from an already
group of firms under contract. Because of the time constraint that was
perceived....
Parsons is the best in the business.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Okay.
There's no doubt about it. If you want an operation, you want the best doctor.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
That's right.
Regardless if the insurance company gives you 5 choices or not, you pretty
much know which doctor you want if you want the best doctor. If you want
the best lawyer, you know who the Perry Mason is. And it's pretty much
understood that Parsons is one of the best firms in dealing with mass
transportation issues and has one of the best track records and portfolios.
So they're clearly the recognized leader.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Right. I think clearly you could look at their achievements and say there's
no doubt they are qualified.
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
But one of the issues is were the proper steps taken when they were
chosen?
That I don't know.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
And that's obviously something we've been looking in to.

I don't know the internal mechanisms by which that happened.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Okay.
I do know that they were the firm that was chosen and to the best of my
knowledge, I can't think of a better firm out there.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Did you have any influence on them being chosen?

No.
As a commissioner in your position?
No. No.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Are you aware of any commissioners having influence on Parsons being
chosen?
MR. CRIST:
Mm-hmm.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
No? How about any other persons on the PLG having influence on
Parsons being chosen?
No. I mean I can speculate.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Okay.
The mayor.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
And why do you say that?

Because I know he already had a relationship there and I know how badly he
wants to get what he wants done done and they have the best track
record in doing it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
As far as Parsons has the best track record.

Mm hmm...But that's speculation.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Sure.
I have nothing to back that up.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Okay. Well, I mean part of this investigation even being started has been
on speculation.
Okay.
And taking text messages and relationships without necessarily having
them in context and making assumptions based on that. So obviously our
job is to try to get those put in context.
The two elected officials that would've had the most to gain with this initiative
taking off would be the mayor of Tampa because he wants his baseball
stadium downtown and anyone on the county commission that is up front
and on board with baseball. Because the only real funding mechanism
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they have for that besides the CRA downtown would be through the
transportation initiative. Okay? But again, that is speculation.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Sure. And then with regards to Parsons....

To the rest of us, it's just another issue and we're just dealing with it. It's not
something that is our hot button issue.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Got you.
My hot button issue is Suitcase City; finishing the master plan. You know? Each
of us have our hot buttons. To me that's mine and that's far from this.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Okay. Well, I did all my time in District 1, which is the university area.
Who did you serve under?
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Well, I was hired under Henderson and then obviously, Sheriff Gee. Major
Perotti was....
He and I ran together at the same time and I introduced Suitcase City and he fell
in love with the issue and he promised everybody that if he was elected
Sheriff that he would decentralize the Sheriff's Office and that he'd create
district commands and he'd break up the county into four quarters and
he.... I told him if I brought the money home, could we have District 1 and
he laughed and he said yes and when I brought home tens of millions of
dollars and matched it with a federal grant under Clinton, he did it and
District 1 was formed.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Oh. I loved District 1. That's where I did all my time.

Yeah.
Very good.
I'm still friends with Colonel Poindexter, Major Perotti. All the original
predecessors out there.
Yeah, I think Major Perotti's with TECO security.
Yeah. He's working closely with Casey Poole over at Critical Interventions.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Along with Parsons also comes Beth Leytham.
MR. CRIST:
Yes.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
And there's a lot of....

I've known her a long time.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Okay. And that's... we'd ask about that.

Probably longer than anybody else on this floor.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Okay. And how did you first meet her?

Beth was working in media and I run an advertising company and she went to
work for a local attorney and she handled... he had a lot of high profile
clients and she handled a lot of the public outreach and awareness.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Okay. How long ago was that?

And I knew her through the professional associations because I was active with
the communication professionals associations. In fact I was president of
Ad 2 Tampa Bay, which was the unprofessionals' division of the American
Advertising Federation. 30 years ago.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Okay. Yeah. That's been the longest we've heard. I think the earliest
before you was probably 2003.
Oh no...no
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Okay. So you've known her for quite a long time.

A long time.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Has she done any work for you personally?

Professionally for a fee?
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Yes.
No.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay. Then she's done things for... I don't know... for favors somewhere
else?
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
I can pick up the phone and ask her a question when she's not angry at me and
get an answer, which is not very often because most of the time she's
pissed off at me.
Well, some of the texts we've gotten that were sent here.... Yeah, she
doesn't hold back her words.
I've known her long enough where she doesn't hold anything back.
Okay.
And she'll fight with me like sister and brother and the 4-letter words fly. You
know, I usually text her back and just say I love you, too, and she shuts up
and goes away for a couple of months.
Okay. But again, that's what's important about being able to have you put
certain things in context, because we can have text where she's berating
you and you know, using choice words with you.
I mean, I didn't want to send that because I didn't want that public because I
knew it would be embarrassing for me, but it had to do with this job.
Yes.
So I had to give it to you.
Right.
You know, I am not one of her favorites. If I had to guess, she doesn't really like
me. I would say the reason why is she can't manage me. You know, I'm a
free agent and I don't always listen to her. I listen to what she says, but I
don't always listen. You know? And then she gets pissed off. Why the hell
did you ask me my advice if you're not going to follow it? And I say just
because I'm curious of what you're thinking. You give me a perspective.
Okay.
You know, like I'll go see a reporter. I'll call her up and ask her about the reporter.
That's most of the time what I'll do if I have to deal with a reporter I don't
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know, I'll ask her if she knows the person or if she doesn't who does she
know that knows the person and can she brief me so that I know what I'm
dealing with before I go into to deal with it and she'll just....
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
So she's a trusted adviser.

I wouldn't say a trusted adviser. I would just say once in a while I would seek her
counsel on a media related issue.
Okay.
Now whether I trust it or not is another matter, but I am and was willing to hear it
because it's kind of like a sparring partner. You can spar with an enemy.
Do you trust them? No, but they're going to practice on their punches.
Has she ever lobbied on behalf of anybody to you?
You know, there's a fine line between what is lobbying and what is PR and that's
been an issue for decades and when you look at Tallahassee a lot of the
lobbyists do multiple contracts and they get paid for lobbying, they get
paid for public communication, and they get paid for legal services and it
all kinds of blend together. In her particular case, she has represented
clients, but she has not sold their products or services. That is lobbying.
Instead, she has organized special events or she has developed
messaging and I've been the blunt of a press release or I've been invited
to a ribbon cutting or I've been introduced to a new business in town. But
most of that was prior to coming to the commission. Since I've been on the
commission she's hated me and I think it's because I've been, for the most
part, on the opposite side of the issues of Hagan.
She has a close relationship with him?
Yeah. Her closest relationships as I see it are the mayor first, Hagan second, and
Murman third. Those who are absolutely despised would be Higginbotham
and probably I'm somewhere in there depending on the day.
But you've known her the longest, so your communication with her.... Like
we've seen in some of the texts where you know she's calling certain
things that can be explained because of your relationship and knowing her
for so long. And like you describe it, a brother sister type relationship.
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MR. CRIST:
I've just known her long enough that she feels like she can do that and I mean
I.... In a way, I've tolerated it. I've not shut it down. I just kind of let it roll off
my back. I don't take it personal. Sometimes I think it's funny.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
But is she coming at that from a constituent standpoint or is she coming at

that from Beth Leytham and Leytham Group?
More of a constituent.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Okay. With Parsons being obviously a focus of this and her relationship
with Parsons, prior to Go Hillsborough....
Let's go back to the lobbying thing.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Oh sure.
Has she ever been in her, sat in this chair and tried to sell me something? No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Okay.
Has she ever called me on the phone and tried to twist my arm to do something?
No.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
Okay.
Well, back to the lobbying thing. If....
Has she ever pushed Parsons Brinckerhoff? No.
Okay.
I wasn't even familiar with the relationship that was there until all the publicity
came out about it.
Well, that was going to be one of my questions. Are you aware if she was
ever under contract with Parsons prior to Go Hillsborough?
I'm not in that circle nor would she have any reason to share that with me.
Okay.
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MR. CRIST:
And back during that time we weren't even talking anyway because she was
pissed off over the position I took on baseball. Because if you go back and
you remember I unveiled a stadium proposal and it kind of pissed off a lot
of people. The mayor, Hagan, her. Personally, again, I'm a pragmatist. I
looked at what would get the biggest bang out of the buck. Back in '94
when Glazer took over the Bucs, I was chairman of legislative delegation
and I unveiled a well thought out, well engineered plan to build the new
Tampa stadium at Channelside when the land was available and when it
was cheap and I also unveiled a plan of strategically placed parking
garages between Channelside and Ybor that could be used 24/7 for a
variety of different purposes. I went to see Mayor Greco and he said
Victor, ingenious. Fuck you. And I said excuse me? He goes no goddamn
way. I said what? And he says that will take 5 years to break ground on
and we're going to dig dirt now. No stadium. I'm putting a casino there.
And I said how could you put a casino there? We don't have legal
gambling. He goes no, but I can move the Indian reservation and he did.
He lobbied to try to move the Indian reservation to the Ybor/Channelside
area and he failed. But what he did do was pick up and open and build all
my parking garages because all my data and all my numbers clearly
showed what he could make. Needless to say, here we are 20 years later
and they're talking about putting a stadium where I had originally talked
about putting a stadium. The problem is there's been a lot of development,
the value of that land has skyrocketed, and it no longer makes any sense
to take that valuable property off the tax rolls. So I went out and did my
research and found that the best location to do it would be on top of the
existing Tampa Dog Track; that the infrastructure was already in place,
that if and when we ever go to commuter rail, the first line would be the
CSX line that runs right through it. It's right at the nexus that connects
Clearwater Beach to Lakeland and Miami to Atlanta. So it was almost like
the perfect storm and that there were 19 brownfields, that there were 17
storm water mitigation sites, that there were federal tax credits that we
have never considered before as dollars that were new that could be
brought to the table. We could run launches up and down the river, which
would revitalize West Tampa. That we could create an arts district and
historic sites, so there would be state and federal historic dollars. We had
it all mapped out and they got pissed off because our plan was the only
one that accessed additional dollars. They came back and said oh well,
you don't have the CRA money and we got $150 million in CRA money we
can access. Okay. No, we don't, but you can create a CRA there. Yes, our
interest rates will probably be a point more, but we would only have to
borrow half the money.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
You tell me about the CRA? CRA for us means something totally different.
It's your redevelopment district.
Got you.
Okay? It's where you have tax incremental financing and any increased value of
the real estate there, the additional tax earned off of it is kept and retained
in that location and spent to cover debt service on bonding that you can
get immediate cash for an investment into the infrastructure now.
Thank you.
But to make a long story short, it pissed off a lot of people and Beth Leytham was
one of them.
Okay.
So at that particular time there wasn't a lot of a love.
Okay. Well, you answered the question you didn't know she was under
contract. If you had known she was under contract with Parsons during
the PLG meetings would you have taken a different approach with her?
Would you have been more cautious with her?
I'm so many steps removed from this. I mean I'm not at the front of this issue, so
really all wouldn't have mattered. I mean whether she was associated or
not associated. I mean if you're asking me if I think there would have been
a conflict of interest, it all depended if she was on contract. Was she on
contract with us first?
No.
Okay. Because if she would've been on contract with us first and then we solesourced Parsons and she was on contract with them and I knew about
that, then I would be concerned of the perception of conflict of interest,
whether or not there was one or not I'd be concerned about it. But you're
asking me to look back retrospectively.
Sure.
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MR. CRIST:
You know, I mean at the time none of that really ever crossed my mind. We were
just piecing together pieces and bringing together players and the one
thing that was recognized about Parsons is I did not know of anyone
better at that then they are. They have the track record that I was familiar
with, so I was comfortable with them.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Right.
Later on when I found out that Beth Leytham was on board, despite any positive
or negative relationship, the one thing I know about that is she's the best
media relations person in town. There's no one in private practice that is
as effective, as knowledgeable, and as tight with the media than Beth
whether you like it or not.
Well, obviously there's some personal....
And I don't mean that to you, I'm just saying in general.
No, no. I know. There's been some personal attacks on her, you know, for
whatever reason. There's been some personal attacks.
Well, it's always hard to be your own barber, to be your own doctor and to build
your house. And in particular case how's she handling herself PR is
maybe not the way other professionals would handle it. She'd probably be
better served hiring a firm to represent herself and if she hears this she'll
be pissed off that I said that and that's the kind of shit that makes her mad.
Alright. And you've already denied any knowledge of any PLG member
having influence on...?
Most all of that was done a pay grade above me.
Yeah.
You know, with the people who were... that this really mattered to. To me it was
just another issue on the table. It wasn't my priority issue.
When you all had given the approval to Mike to move forward, were you
aware of who was in the running to be selected? You're shaking your head
no.
I don't remember...
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CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Okay.
Hearing who else may be in the running.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Okay.
I just assumed that they were looking at all the potential possible best choices. I
knew how important this was to Mike. I knew how important this was to
most of my colleagues. I knew how important this was to the 3 mayors.
That I didn't have to step in front of their parade. I just assumed that this
was one best left to them. You know, if it was something dealing directly
with something was my priority, I would want step in front of it, but in this
particular case this wasn't number one on my agenda and there were
others that could handle it.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Sure. As a commissioner you hold yourself to a higher standard by your

conduct?
I try.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
But even in I guess, in relationships with say like Mike Merrill who
essentially works for the commission.
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Some of the text messages that have been released from Sandy Murman
show communication during the decision making time period of who was
going to be selected. Sandy Murman texted Mike Merrill I'm asking you
not to pick HDR. What they did....
What's an HDR?
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
HDR. The company.

Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
I'm asking you not to pick HDR. What they did with Tampa Bay Water was
criminal.
Okay.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
I know Sandy Murman served on the Tampa Bay Water board; the
reservoir that was... all the history with HDR. But here's a commissioner
looking to the decision maker don't pick this company for this project. Is
that an appropriate... is that appropriate for a commissioner to do?
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
It's hard for me to criticize somebody else. We're human. We're going to voice
our opinion.
Okay.
A good administrator would listen and if he sees a legitimate concern bring it
back to the board. You know, I'm not afraid to voice my opinion if I see a
pitfall. Now I don't think any other commissioner should be restricted not to
voice an opinion, but it depends on how that opinion is given. If it's an
order don't do this it's different than I think this. Have you considered that?
And normally when I have that strong of an opinion about something, I'll
say this is how I feel, this is why I feel this way. Have you considered...?
But I have never told him don't do something.
And the way it was framed and obviously putting that into context, I'm
asking you not to pick this firm because of this. But would you agree that
your opinion weighs a little bit more than say somebody coming off the
street and sharing your opinion.
Mike is a very politically savvy CEO. Mike is one of the most powerful figures in
politics and government in Hillsborough County and what makes Mike so
powerful is because he has at least 5 solid votes on this board, so no one
of us are going to have that much influence on him. And I've seen that
sitting here. And that's one of my gripes about the county versus the state.
When I used to ask for something at the state level, I never had to ask
twice. This place it's a year later sometimes before I get even noticed, so
you know, they know that they're protected and they covet that. So no one
commissioner has that much influence over Mike even if they try.
Okay.
You know, there's only maybe one on this floor that can be on the top of that
pyramid, but even still....
And who would that be?
Hagan.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Okay.
He's the most influential person on this floor.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Has he been the longest serving?

Yes.
Okay.
And he's also the reason Mike Merrill is county administrator. Another action I
opposed. I came in on my first day on the job. I was in a workshop that
wasn't supposed to be a session by which we vote, deliberate, and make
decisions, but a learning workshop to discuss issues and the board and
the first thing up on the agenda, which was offered by Hagan and
seconded by Sharpe, and I tried to debate it with.... Excuse me. I'm
, so my sugar's a little shifty right now because I just ate. With
Beckner and we got shut down. And that was the appointment of Mike
Merrill as county administrator and I said I am dead set against doing this.
Not because I'm against Mike, but because I believe that one, this is a
closed meeting. There's no media here. There's no public here. This was
not publicly announced. That it's wrong because even though we're in the
Sunshine, we're out of the Sunshine and that the public and the media
should have had an opportunity to witness this and be a part of this. In
addition, those of us who are new here have not had a chance to even
learn anything about this man and most of all, this is something that really
should go out and you know, and for all practical purposes, we should do
a search. If he's the right choice, it will clearly appear to be the right choice
and they didn't want to do that. So Mark Sharpe and Ken Hagan get
everything they want on this floor. Mark's gone now. He's still getting
everything he wants.
Is he involved in the university revamping that you're trying to do with
suitcase city?
Yes and no. We're overlapping. He is leading an effort to pioneer an area that
really was too difficult for those of us.... You know, my initiative was more
at the grassroots level dealing with neighborhood stabilization, public
safety, workforce development, quality of life, and trying to lower the stats.
What he's doing is more along the lines of USF, the hospital, the mall, and
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Busch Gardens wants, which is people with higher disposable incomes
being able to spend money and enjoy their facilities.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Okay.
And there is a place for that, but that certainly can't and shouldn't be the primary
focus and that's where he and I have been dancing because that needs to
work in tandem with the other side. Neighborhood stabilization is critical
because you're never going to be able to bring anybody there for any
quality and sustain them if you don't lower the crime rate and lower the
unemployment. And while they're focusing on all these high-end jobs, the
largest population of unemployed is right there. The largest population of
unskilled labor, guess what, can walk to the university, but there's no
classes.
A lot of work to be done.
Yeah. There's a lot of work to be done. But Mark's getting a $2.2 million check
that I never got (laughing).
So now here we are 2015. Do you need to take a break or anything?
No. I'm just looking at my aide because.... I talked to Kyle Cockream. He told me
just answer their questions clean and simple. Don't give them more than
they need.
No, you're fine. You gave us a lot of insight....
Then I told him I had a corporal coming. He goes oh, you're not important
(laughing). Do you know Kyle?
I do. I do.
I love working with him, man.
On the Uber situation I guess.
Oh, it's much bigger than that. I've had to go into this agency that was a cluster
fuck and gut it and I mean, all new staff, all new board, new policies, new
procedures, new guidelines, new transparencies, new systems of
accountability. Reinvent the whole thing and they do a whole lot more than
just cabs. That's what you see I the paper, but this fight with Uber/Lyft,
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man. It's like fighting the mafia. It is. Honestly. They're like they're all
thugs.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
A lot of politicking going on out there with that. And you kind of answered
my question with Sandy Murman's comment and opinion, so that's been
shared with other commissioners.
Am I being as frank with you as....
Absolutely. Yes, sir. I mean you're giving us, you know, some more insight
than we expected, so I appreciate that.
Alright.
So it's a common practice to give your opinion and that's what you see
she did there?
I didn't witness it.
Sure.
So I don't know what was said or how it was said, but the way you explained it to
me it sounded like her venting on the administrator sharing her opinion,
her thoughts, but ultimately you know the buck stops with him and he
makes a decision on what direction to turn and he is a strong enough man
with enough support that he doesn't have to bow and kiss any ring on this
floor because he's got 5 gorillas behind him.
Okay. Are you aware of any ethics issues regarding the Go Hillsborough
process?
Only what I have read in the paper.
Okay.
And seen on the TV. And I frankly think that there's two separate issues here.
Okay.
We have the issue of the plan and the funding of the plan and then we have the
issue on whether or not there's been an ethics breech and that they
should be separated. And the Tea Party and those who are opposed to the
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transportation initiative are using the question of ethics to derail the work
on transportation and they really need to be separated because whether
you do or you don't find an ethics breech, that will be dealt with on its own.
But the transportation initiative should be allowed to move forward and
evolve.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Well, actually our investigation is kind of been divided into two parts.
There's the procurement selection side of how Parsons was brought on.
Okay. And that's a legitimate issue.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Absolutely. And we brought on an outside auditing firm to do part of their

investigation as well.
I am just as eager to find out what the hell happened there if anything...
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Right.
As anyone in the media or as you are.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Sure.
Because if there was truthfully any impropriety or any intentional breech of trust I
want to know that.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
And by you saying that you're not aware of any?

No.
Okay. So we have that side and then we also have criminal side. Criminal
violations pertaining to Sunshine Law, public records law, and we're
dealing with lobbying issues.
And again, you know, in this arena there's a lot of potholes and you try your best
not to step in any of them.
Sure.
But there are going to be those times and cases where you accidentally may find
yourself stepping into one and you step out of it real quick. There's a
difference between an intentional breech and an accidental one.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Correct.
MR. CRIST:
Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
And that defined between whether it's criminal or whether it's not.
Yes.
And I think from our review thus far, which we started this back in late
September, are there some methods and procedures that probably need
to be revamped?
Well, going back to the statement from Sandy.
Sure.
Whether or not there was malicious intent or not I don't know, but knowing Sandy
as well as I do, right now we're not talking because she's angry at me. I
took her out as chair, but I still love her. I still trust her. I still respect her. I
just have my reasons and they weren't personal. I don't think she would
ever do anything intentional that would be corrupt or malicious and or
illegal. She, to the best of my knowledge, is a very ethical person and if
she did something by accident, then that truly is what it was. And you
know, if she said something that crossed the line, it was out of.... I would
assume out of passion in the heat of the moment and not out of the
malicious intent to influence.
Do you think Beth Leytham has any influence on her or Ken?
Oh, God no. Sandy Murman? She's like my wife. She's got a mind of her own.
Nobody tells her what to do.
Okay.
You have 3 very strong personalities at this end of the hall.
You talking about you, Ken, and Sandy?
No. Me, Sandy and Miller.
Oh, okay. Yes.
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MR. CRIST:
Three former legislatures. We're well top in our field, so I was the 5th ranking
member of the legislature and I chaired Justice. I had all of law
enforcement, all of corrections, and all court systems under me for 18
years. You don't hold that kind of position if you aren't strong.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Correct.
Miller was the Democratic leader as well as the Black Caucus leader. You don't
hold that position unless you're strong. She was the first female
Republican speaker pro tem. So you got to be pretty independent and
pretty strong willed.
And I think by us being able to talk to everybody and get the context and
understand.... Obviously it's easy to read it on paper, but until you know
the background of it and I appreciate your insight on that very much.
You're very welcome.
If these gentleman have some questions for you is that okay?
Yeah. They're the ones who have been watching the whole time, so.... I know
how it all works.
No, I've been doing all the talking.
I ought to tell you my most intimidating meeting was I had 4 FBI agents, 3 IRS
agents, and 2 FDLE agents. The FDLE didn't bother me. But they all came
to see me when I was in the state senate because the chairman of the
healthcare committee was under investigation and I was vice chair. So
they're all in my room and that was a tough 4 hours, man. You know who
were the toughest though? It wasn't the FBI, it was the damn IRS agents.
They were just ugly.
Well, we're not beating you too bad.
They were just... right from the very beginning just a complete..., you know, they
were probably less concerned about the questions than they were
enjoying just being disrespectful.
I have my opinion on that.
You know? But that's alright. You know, it's all part of it.
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CPL. HOLLIS:
Yes, sir. You guys have anything?
DET. CLARK:
Yeah. I have a question, sir. This is Trent Clark for the record. You
mentioned the difference in training between the state and the county. As
this investigation has gone on and this issue has gone on, have you made
or thought of any recommendations of training to make the training more
pertinent to the issues at hand; for example, texts, emails and the
modernization of communications.
MR. CRIST:
DET. CLARK:
MR. CRIST:
Yes.
Have you thought of that way?
Yes. And I have raised those issues at the state level. I'm active with the State
Association of Counties and indirectly with the League of Cities, because
my wife has the contract of running the League of Cities so I go to a lot of
their functions and each year when I participate in the ethics training I ask
a lot of questions in this area to make sure that there is a relevance that is
brought out by the people who would be the decision makers if anyone
ever brought forward a complaint. Each year there's more and more
addressed, but it's still very vague. And technology is evolving so quickly
and it's still an unknown factor and it's still untested and you know, until
there's more court cases, you know, the state and the ethics commission
can only speculate. Yeah, they'll promulgate rules and generally they
promulgate on the conservative side or they ask for more than probably
what they're legally entitled to, but ultimately they're the ring you've got to
kiss because if ever challenged, they're the ones who are going to rule. I
go to that each year so that's the environment I'm in and I'm quite satisfied
with their training. It's all day. And it's geared around a county official
because it's put on by the Association of Counties. It's at their conference.
I don't know what my colleagues here go through. I was aware there was
something online, but I've never looked at it, but I've never been a real big
fan of doing anything online because there's no really interaction. But I
would like to see, and I voiced this the other day, Mary Helen Ferris is a
wonderful attorney. She's sharp, but ultimately it's secondhand and there's
a lot of tough questions. And if you're going to ask her questions she may
not know the answers to, she's going to have to get back with you with the
answers, so why not just ask the person who's going to be the one giving
her the information? Let's have... if the county doesn't want to fly all of us
up there for the ethics training every year, then fly them down here to do it.
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You know? I mean, but I would rather have them do it. It's learning from
the master.
DET. CLARK: My other question will be related to lobbying or a lobbyists that come here. We
look at the procedure where the lobbyist are signed in and that procedure
doesn't seem to be as thorough as it is with the state. One, we looked at
how the state... the lobbyist come there and they lobby as far as
legislative, I believe and the executive lobbyist, so they have a choice of
doing both ways and then on the back end of that, it lists all of the
principals that they represent. We didn't find any such system here that is
as thorough as the state and it seems simple. The book outside some
have signed in and haven't filled or left the record incomplete and then
subsequent to meeting with a commissioner, the record was never
completed about what they were talking about or anything like that, so
there's no review of that. Then that record goes to the county for... it gets
transcribed electronically and the originals are there. We followed that
process and looked at it. Have you looked at that process and thought of
any improvements as to protect...?
MR. CRIST:
I was under the understanding when I came here that the lobbyists here fell
under the same category as the lobbyists in Tallahassee, that if you were
a professional lobbyist in the state that you had to file a report quarterly
and list your clients. I just assumed they all did that. I didn't realize that
that was only for the state. I thought it was the state requiring anyone who
was a professional lobbyist. So that was a shortfall on my part and not
really an issue that was ever addressed in ethics training because I'm not
a lobbyist. So I just assumed that they were listed with the state, I just
assumed that they were filing their financial statement with the state and I
just assumed that they had a list of clients with the state and never
bothered to look to see otherwise. I thought that we had a more strict
process here because at the state level that's all they had to do. They
never had the log when they came in and came out when they came to
talk to you, so you would have no idea how often and how frequently or
who I was talking to. And at the state level, I didn't have to keep a log or a
calendar. We were told in our training if you don't got it, it's not a record.
That's the state policy. Okay? So at the state level, you could try to see a
legislature's calendar and it doesn't go back more than 3 months. You go
through your files, it doesn't go back more than 3 months. Okay? Here
we're told just the opposite. Everything is a record. And I knew there was a
book out there and I just.... It's not my responsibility to make sure that they
sign it. That's theirs. So I never went out there and followed up the book
because it wasn't my role. I think now knowing what they are and aren't
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doing, what we should do is they should register just like the state ones
do.
DET. CLARK:
MR. CRIST:
Yes.
Where they register that I am a for hire, paid lobbyist. Number one. They're being
paid. The lay lobbyist and the volunteers, they shouldn't have to register,
but the paid lobbyist should have to register. They should.... I don't think
they should have to put how much they're being paid. I think that's more
for the news media than it is for anybody else. That's regardless whether
they're paid 5 grand or 50 grand doesn't matter. If they're paid, they're
paid. The coming and going? Actually, I kind of like that. If they're coming
here to the office, if they sign in, you know, and they list who they're
lobbying on behalf because it gives you a better idea who's here and why
they're here. Where it gets tricky what if they call us on the phone? You
know, or what if they text or email us? That's where it starts to get tricky. I
mean it's kind of like the school board back when we were kids the
teachers had the time to teach. Today, most of the time it's filling out the
goddamn paperwork. Think about your own jobs. How much of your day is
filling out the paperwork and how much of your day is policing the street?
So you know, where's that fine line? The public really needs to know who
are the professionals, who are their clients, and when are they coming
and going. So you can see whether or not there's been influence in the
process and who influencers are.
DET. CLARK:
MR. CRIST:
Yes, sir. That answered my question.

Did that answer it?
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Yes, sir. Thank you.

Okay.
CPL. HOLLIS:
Sam?
DET. PORTALATIN:
None for me.
CPL. HOLLIS:
None for you?
MR. CRIST:
Nothing?
DET. PORTALATIN:
There's nothing. Thank you.
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MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
Alright. Who's the psychologist here? Who's reading my kinesics?

Just a couple final questions. So it's always easy to Monday morning
quarterback and go back and a lot of this is what we've kind of done, but
that's just part of the process. Is there anything looking at what's
happened now, all the scrutiny that's been on this issue, which you've
admitted is not your top issue anyway.
I'm embarrassed by it.
Yeah.
As an elected... as a county commission because the public... it's a cloud and it
leaves the public who are on the outside of the the cloud to wonder, you
know, what's under all of this stink? And they don't look at one of us. They
look at all of us. And you know, I mean, it's just... it's almost like another
nail in the coffin. People don't like politicians now, it's because they keep
reading stories. And a lot of times it's sensationalism. The bottom line is
there are some legitimate questions that are being asked here. There are
some legitimate concerns that are on the table here. As a policy maker
and as a leader and a county commissioner, I want answers. I'm eager to
see a report and depending on what it says and what the circumstances
and the situation is, you know, I will seek appropriate remedies. You know,
you may find nothing. You may find something. You may turn it all over to
a prosecutor. I don't know. But what I do know is I want the train straight
and on track and I don't mean that literally.
Sure. I know alots been made about rail. Do you think if the process had
been gone through where they did a procurement, they had to do a new
procurement and everything that Parsons may have still been selected
just because of how qualified they are?
Yes. No doubt. You know, I think that if they would've gone through a process, it
just would've created more time, more expense. That they would've gotten
selected anyway. And I think Beth would have gotten selected anyway if
that would have went out to RFP because clearly she is and others will
argue, but I've been in politics for 26 plus years. I've been in the media
and advertising business for 30 plus years. There ain't anybody closer to
the media and more effective with the media than Beth Leytham. Bar
none. And there are others out there who'd like to think they are, but
they're aren't. Parsons, they've got the portfolio and the track record.
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Others would like to say we do too. Prove it. But ultimately, those were
the... would've been, I think even if they went through the process, the
chosen ones because of their background and their track record.
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
MR. CRIST:
CPL. HOLLIS:
Okay.
Whether I like them or not, that's reality.
Sure. Sure. Well, I think anybody that looks, again, looks at Parsons can't
say they're not qualified to have done the project, because clearly....
You know, I went to the town meetings. I went to the community meetings. I didn't
see anything that lead me to believe that there was any leading and
directive. I would've been turned off by that because here I am I'm not
sure what I'm going to do, but I want to make sure that I'm doing the right
thing and I want to know that this time around the public's on board
because the last time around the problem was there was no plan. There
was no preliminary cultivation and read of the public. I did my own poling
and had my numbers and I knew it was dead on arrival. When Jim Davis
called me and gave me his numbers, I told him he was crazy and at the
end of it all, I was only 1 percent off on what the final vote was and they
were reading the wrong people. You know, you got to read the super
voters; people that are actually going to be the ones going to the poles.
Sure. Alright, sir. If we were to have a question down the road and needed
to approach you again, would that be okay?
Yeah. Call me on my cell phone. I'll keep the record. No problem.
Do you have any questions for us?
Just keep it simple.
Sure.
I haven't known you 30 years.
That's true. I wouldn't talk to you like that. Alright, sir. I'll stop the recording.
It's almost comical. You know. It's almost comical.
It's 2:28 p.m.
- 38 -
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Attachment Description: AUGUST 2014 TED MEETING
Reference Number:
1
CAPTIONING
AUGUST 12, 2014
TRANSPORTATION FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN
HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY POLICY LEADERSHIP GROUP
***This is not an official, verbatim transcript of the
***following meeting. It should be used for informational
***purposes only. This document has not been edited;
***therefore, there may be additions, deletions, or words
***that did not translate.
>>HERB MARLOWE:
GOOD AFTERNOON, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
WELCOME TO OUR AUGUST 2014 MEETING OF THE POLICY LEADERSHIP

GROUP OF THE TRANSPORTATION FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
PROJECT.
WE BEGAN THIS PROJECT IN MAY OF 2013.
YOU HAVE BEEN FAITHFULLY MEETING SINCE THEN, AND WE
APPRECIATE THAT.
OUR CHARGE AT THAT TIME WAS TO THINK ABOUT A TRANSPORTATION
SYSTEM THAT WOULD SERVE A LARGE AND HIGHLY DIVERSE COUNTY,
THAT HAS BOTH RURAL ASPECTS AND MAJOR CITY IN THE REGION,
TO SERVE A COUNTY THAT'S THE JOB CENTER FOR THE REGION, TO
SERVE A COUNTY THAT CONTAINS A LOT OF RURAL AREAS, TO SERVE
A COUNTY THAT HAS MAJOR PORTS AND IS A MAJOR CROSSROADS AND
THAT IS GROWING BOTH IN POPULATION AND IN BUSINESSES, AND
OUR CHALLENGE WAS TO DO THAT IN THE CONTEXT OF BOTH TODAY'S
ECONOMY AND THE ECONOMY WHICH IS EMERGING AND HOW TO THINK
ABOUT THAT.
TO MEET THAT CHALLENGE, YOU HAVE WORKED FOR THE LAST 16
MONTHS IN WHAT HAS BEEN DESCRIBED TO MEAN AS AN
UNPRECEDENTED LEVEL OF COOPERATION BETWEEN THE CITIES AND
THE COUNTY, HART, THEA, FDOT, THE PLANNING COMMISSION, MPO,
For: 4602
Page 929 of 1954


PORTS, AND OTHER TRANSPORTATION ENTITIES.

AND THERE HAVE BEEN FOUR WORKING GROUPS PRIMARILY IN THAT,
THE PROJECT MANAGEMENT GROUP, WHICH WAS COMPRISED OF A
[INCOMPREHENSIBLE] GROUP OF ENGINEERS, PLANNERS, YOUR
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT SPECIALISTS, AND THEY'VE WORKED VERY
HARD IN IDENTIFYING EMPIRICALLY THE KEY ECONOMIC SPACES AND
THE COMPETITIVE SITES THAT WILL BE IN THE FUTURE AND
DETERMINING THE TRANSPORTATION NEEDS OF THOSE SITES IN
PARTICULAR.
WE'VE ALSO HAD A FINANCE GROUP THAT'S LOOKED AT THE VARIOUS
WAYS TO FUND PROJECTS; WE HAVE A COMMUNICATIONS GROUP
THAT'S FOCUSED ON HOW DO WE COMMUNICATE AND INFORM THE
PUBLIC; AND WE HAVE WHAT'S CALLED THE MANAGERS AND
ADMINISTRATORS GROUP, WHICH ARE YOUR ADMINISTRATIVE
EXECUTIVES, WHICH I'VE MET MONTHLY OR MORE FREQUENTLY TO
REVIEW THIS PROCESS.
IN THE PROCESS, WE'VE REANALYZED A LOT OF PRIOR STUDIES,
WE'VE DONE NEW ANALYSES TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND TRANSPORTATION
FROM AN ECONOMIC IMPACT PERSPECTIVE, AND WE'VE ENGAGED IN A
BIT OF PUBLIC OUTREACH EARLY IN THE PROCESS WITH TOWN HALL
MEETINGS, VARIOUS PRESENTATIONS, AND THEN A VARIETY OF
SURVEYS, WHICH WE'VE PRESENTED THE DATA TO YOU.
YOU'VE TOLD US FROM THE START THAT YOU WANTED A VERY STRONG
PUBLIC CONVERSATION IN THIS AND AN IN-DEPTH CONVERSATION
THAT'S SUBSTANTIVE WITH THE COMMUNITY.
WE HAVE DONE ALL THIS WORK TO ARRIVE AT TODAY WHERE WE CAN
PRESENT YOU A PROPOSAL THAT PROVIDES THAT SUBSTANTIVE
CONVERSATION, AND THAT'S THE WORK THAT MANY FOLKS HAVE
For: 4602
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DONE.
AND I DO WANT TO JUST TAKE A MOMENT TO REALLY ACKNOWLEDGE
THE TREMENDOUS EXTRA EFFORT THAT STAFF FROM ALL YOUR
AGENCIES AND OTHER AGENCIES HAVE MADE ON THIS.
THEY'VE DONE THEIR JOBS, AND THEY'VE TAKEN ON THIS INITIAL
TASK.
THEY'VE A WORKED UNTIL 10:00 OR 11:00 AT NIGHT, THEY'VE
WORKED WEEKENDS.
IT'S BEEN A TREMENDOUS EFFORT BY VERY FINE PUBLIC SERVANTS
TO BRING YOU A VERY QUALITY PRODUCT.
MR. MERRILL'S GOING TO PRESENT TO YOU IN A MOMENT THE
SUBSTANCE OF THE CONVERSATION THAT WE'RE ASKING ABOUT,
WHICH WE'RE CALLING AN INTEGRATED MOBILITY PROPOSAL, AND
HE'LL DEFINE THOSE TERMS FOR YOU.
AFTER YOUR CONVERSATION WITH HIM ABOUT THIS PROPOSAL, I
WILL RETURN AND I'LL PRESENT TO YOU A PROCESS FOR THE
PUBLIC CONVERSATION.
WE'RE REALLY ASKING FOR ONE DECISION FROM YOU TODAY, A
CONSENSUAL DECISION, THAT WE CAN MOVE FORWARD WITH THE
PUBLIC DISCUSSION AND CONVERSATION PROCESS.
THAT'S THE ONE DIRECTION WE ARE ASKING OF YOU TODAY.
YOU, OBVIOUSLY, MAY CHOOSE TO DO OTHER ITEMS, IF YOU DO,
AND YOU DO, BUT THAT'S THE ITEM I PARTICULARLY WOULD LIKE
TO GET GUIDANCE ON BEFORE I LEAVE TODAY.
SO WITHOUT FURTHER ADIEU, TO PRESENT TO YOU THE WORK OF THE
LAST 16 MONTHS, MR. MERRILL.
>>MIKE MERRILL:
THANK YOU, HERB.
WELCOME TO EVERYONE.
For: 4602
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THANK YOU FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY.

THE ISSUE OF TRANSPORTATION AND WHAT WE DO ABOUT IT WILL
LITERALLY IMPACT EVERYTHING WE DO AND EVERYTHING WE ARE
HERE IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY.
IT WILL IMPACT OUR ABILITY TO KEEP EXISTING JOBS AND TO
ATTRACT NEW ONES, IT WILL DETERMINE OUR ABILITY TO KEEP OUR
FAMILIES TOGETHER AND TO KEEP THEM SAFE, AND IT WILL IMPACT
THE PRECIOUS QUALITY OF LIFE THAT MAKES LIVING HERE SO
SPECIAL.
THAT'S WHY FROM THE VERY BEGINNING OF THIS PROCESS, ONE WE
BEGAN OVER 12 MONTHS AGO, WE INSISTED ON BEING THOROUGH,
OPEN, AND INCLUSIVE, BECAUSE IF WE DON'T GET THIS RIGHT, IF
WE DON'T DO THIS RIGHT, WE'LL LIVE WITH THE CONSEQUENCES
WELL INTO THE FUTURE.
DOING THIS RIGHT MEANS MAKING SURE WE HEAR FROM PEOPLE ALL
ACROSS THE COUNTY, TO LISTEN TO THEIR CONCERNS AND THEIR
IDEAS, TO ANSWER THEIR QUESTIONS, IF WE CAN, OR TO GET THE
ANSWERS WHEN WE CAN'T; TO DISCUSS THE OPTIONS WE HAVE AND
DISMISS THOSE THAT WE DON'T.
SO FAR THERE'S A LIST OF IDEAS, A MENU OF OPTIONS THAT HAVE
BEEN PROPOSED, WHICH MERIT THOUGHTFUL CONSIDERATION.
THESE OPTIONS, LIKE THE COUNTY ITSELF, ARE MANY AND VARIED.
THEY CONNECT COMMUNITIES AND JOB CENTERS, AND THEY STRIKE A
BALANCE, BOTH GEOGRAPHICALLY AND BY TYPE OF SERVICE.
A BACKLOG OF ROAD REPAVING NEEDS AND SIDEWALK SAFETY
PROJECTS SPAN THE COUNTY, AND MUCH-NEEDED INTERSECTION AND
ROADWAY IMPROVEMENTS WOULD ADD CAPACITY TO AN OVERSTRESSED
AND CLOGGED SYSTEM.
For: 4602
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EXPANSION AND ENHANCEMENT OF OUR METRORAPID BUS SERVICE,

ALONG WITH NEW BUS RAPID TRANSIT, COULD LOWER COST OF
SERVICE SOONER AND RELIEVE TRAFFIC CONGESTION.
OUR COMMUNITY'S PRINCIPAL BUSINESS CORRIDORS ARE PROJECTED
TO HOST 370,000 JOBS BY THE YEAR 2040.
DOWNTOWN TAMPA TO WESTSHORE IS ONE OF THE LARGEST
COMMERCIAL DISTRICTS IN THE SOUTHEAST UNITED STATES WITH
170,000 JOBS.
ENSURING THE CONTINUED COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE OF THESE
BUSINESS CENTERS AND OF TAMPA INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT AND OUR
PORT AND THE GREATER USF AREA WILL LEAD TO MORE JOBS AND
PROSPERITY FOR EVERYONE.
SO EARLY INVESTMENT IN FIXED GUIDEWAY TRANSIT SYSTEM
IMPROVEMENTS COULD BUILD RIDERSHIP AND MAKE US COMPETITIVE
FOR FEDERAL INVESTMENTS.
THIS WOULD GIVE US TIME, TIME TO DEVELOP A LONG-TERM
TRANSIT AND LAND USE STRATEGY SUPPORTING LIGHT RAIL AND
OTHER FIXED GUIDEWAY OPTIONS.
BUT, WE DO NOT YET HAVE A HILLSBOROUGH PLAN FOR
TRANSPORTATION, AND WE WON'T HAVE A PLAN UNTIL WE KNOW THE
PEOPLE OF HILLSBOROUGH HAVE WEIGHED IN, WE'VE DONE OUR DUE
DILIGENCE, AND WE'VE EXAMINED ALL SOURCES OF FUNDING BEYOND
HILLSBOROUGH.
THE FUNDING WE CURRENTLY HAVE HAS BEEN PUT TO GOOD USE, BUT
IT IS LIMITED AND INSUFFICIENT TO MEET BACKLOGGED PROJECTS
AND FUTURE TRANSPORTATION NEEDS.
SO FAR 50% OR ABOUT $450 MILLION OF THE COMMUNITY
INVESTMENT TAX HAS PAID FOR TRANSPORTATION PROJECTS, AND
For: 4602
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ABOUT 43% OR $137 MILLION OF THE REMAINING CIT WILL GO TO

TRANSPORTATION BEFORE THE CIT EXPIRES.
MANY ESSENTIAL PUBLIC SAFETY PROJECTS, SCHOOLS, WATER AND
SEWER SERVICES, PARKS AND LIBRARIES WILL ALSO HAVE BEEN
BUILT BY THE CIT BEFORE IT EXPIRES.
BUT AFTER ALL OF THESE CRITICAL COMMUNITY INVESTMENTS ARE
MADE, NO ADDITIONAL CIT CAPACITY REMAINS, AND GAS TAXES ARE
A DECLINING REVENUE SOURCE, AND THEY'RE COMMITTED TO
MAINTAINING WHAT EXISTING ROADS, SIDEWALKS, AND
INTERSECTIONS AND BRIDGES THAT WE CAN.
SO WITH ALL OF THIS IN MIND, THE TRANSPORTATION PLAN THAT
WE CREATE TOGETHER AS A COMMUNITY MUST MEASURE UP TO SIX
BASIC LITMUS TESTS.
ONE, IT'LL GET US MOVING AGAIN, BREAKING THE TRAFFIC
LOGJAMS THAT THREATEN OUR JOBS AND OUR FUTURE.
TWO, IT FIXES WHAT'S BROKEN, FROM ROADS THAT ARE IN BAD
SHAPE OR NEED REPAVING TO BRIDGES THAT ARE IN DISREPAIR.
THREE, IT'S AFFORDABLE, SUSTAINABLE, EQUITABLE, AND
IMPLEMENTABLE.
WE SHOULD JUSTIFY EVERY TAX DOLLAR BEING ASKED FOR AND BE
ACCOUNTABLE FOR HOW IT'S SPENT.
FOUR, IT INCREASES PERSONAL SAFETY FROM STREETS AND
HIGHWAYS TO CROSSWALKS AND BIKE LANES.
FIVE, IT GIVES MOBILITY TO SENIORS AND OTHERS WHO NEED IT
TO MAINTAIN THEIR FREEDOM AND THEIR HEALTH.
AND SIX, IT ENHANCES OUR QUALITY OF LIFE, FOR ATTRACTING
AND RETAINING BUSINESSES ALSO MEANS CREATING SAFE,
ATTRACTIVE, AND LIVABLE COMMUNITIES FOR THE WORKERS.
For: 4602
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SO OVER THE COMING MONTHS, WE'LL BE REACHING OUT TO

COMMUNITIES AND GROUPS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTY TO DRAFT A
PLAN THAT MEASURES UP TO ALL OF THESE MARKERS, USING TOWN
HALLS, TELETOWN HALLS, HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION MEETINGS,
BUSINESS CHAMBER MEETINGS, AND BY SOLICITING IDEAS FROM THE
PUBLIC BY WAY OF WEB PAGE AND SOCIAL MEDIA, AND WE'LL KEEP
REACHING OUT UNTIL WE HAVE A PLAN THAT TRULY REPRESENTS THE
SPECIAL NATURE OF HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY AND THE PEOPLE WHO
LIVE HERE;
NOT A PLAN THAT'S INHERITED OR ADAPTED FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE
BUT ONE THAT'S BRED HERE, BASED HERE, AND IS FOCUSED ON
SOLUTIONS HERE IN HILLSBOROUGH AND WILL MAKE US STRONG
PARTNERS IN REGIONAL TRANSPORTATION SOLUTIONS; NOT A PLAN
THAT WILL REFLECT POLITICS BUT ONE GROUNDED IN SOUND POLICY
AND SOUND ENGINEERING, AND WE ALL AGREE THAT CITIZENS
SHOULD HAVE A DECISION-MAKING ROLE IN IMPLEMENTING THAT
PLAN.
FOR THIS REASON, HART'S GOVERNANCE SHOULD CONTINUE TO
ENSURE THE PUBLIC INTEREST.
ANY DISCUSSION OF GOVERNANCE SHOULD WAIT UNTIL WE HAVE A
TRANSPORTATION PLAN.
IT'S TIME TO HAVE AN HONEST CONVERSATION ABOUT
TRANSPORTATION, ONE THAT'S OPEN, TRANSPARENT, AND ONE THAT
REFLECTS THE BEST IN ALL OF US.
THIS IS A TRANSFORMATIONAL MOMENT IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY.
JOB GROWTH IN THE TAMPA BAY REGION AND IN HILLSBOROUGH
COUNTY IS THE STRONGEST IN THE STATE AS OUR BUSINESS SECTOR
BEGINS TO RECOVER FROM THE RECESSION.
For: 4602
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OUR HEALTH CARE TECHNOLOGY SECTOR'S BRIMMING WITH POTENTIAL

TO ONE DAY BECOME A WORLD-CLASS ENGINE OF INNOVATION AND
BUSINESS GENERATION, AND WE CAN BE VERY PROUD OF OUR HIGHCALIBER SCHOOLS AND UNIVERSITIES.
THE COST OF COUNTY GOVERNMENT HAS DECLINED 20% SINCE 2007
WITHOUT A LOSS OF SERVICE.
THE CRIME RATE HAS DROPPED PRECIPITOUSLY, AND WE'VE BEGUN
TO TACKLE AND SOLVE DIFFICULT SOCIAL ISSUES LIKE
HOMELESSNESS AND ARE REDEVELOPING BLIGHTED AND POVERTYSTRICKEN POCKETS OF THE COMMUNITY.
WHETHER WE ARE ABLE TO CAPITALIZE ON THESE SUCCESSES AND
SECURE CONTINUED ECONOMIC PROSPERITY, COMPETITIVE
ADVANTAGE, AND QUALITY OF LIFE FOR GENERATIONS TO COME
DEPENDS ON DECISIONS THAT WE MAKE RIGHT NOW AS A COMMUNITY
ABOUT STRATEGIC TRANSPORTATION INVESTMENTS.
THERE'S A SINGLE PURPOSE FOR TODAY'S MEETING, TO BEGIN AN
HONEST COMMUNITY CONVERSATION ABOUT TRANSPORTATION CHOICES
THAT RESIDENTS BELIEVE ARE IMPORTANT.
WE'RE READY AND DETERMINED TO DO JUST THAT.
THANK YOU.
AND HERB, COME BACK UP.
I'LL TAKE QUESTIONS, AND -- IF THERE ARE QUESTIONS, OR HERB
CAN BEGIN TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT
PLAN THAT WE'VE DEVELOPED, AND WE'RE ALL HERE TO ANSWER
QUESTIONS FOR YOU.
>>MARK SHARPE:
I ACTUALLY HAVE A QUESTION FROM
COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM.
>>HERB MARLOWE:
For: 4602
I'M SORRY.
Page 936 of 1954


COMMISSIONER.
>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:
YEAH, THANK YOU.
MR. MARLOWE, I'VE GOT A QUESTION THAT CAME TO MY ATTENTION

ABOUT THIS I'M GOING TO CALL IT AECOM REPORT, A-E-C-O-M.
>>MIKE MERRILL:
RIGHT.
>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:
IN YOUR ESTIMATION, WHAT IS THIS
REPORT, AND IS IT A SUMMARY, IS IT A CONCLUSION, AND -- AND

I WAS LOOKING FOR A TIMELINE AS TO WHEN MY OFFICE RECEIVED
IT AND DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING SPECIFICALLY WHERE IT CAME TO MY
OFFICE.
>>MIKE MERRILL:
RIGHT.
THE REPORT WAS SOMETHING THAT WE FELT WE NEEDED TO HAVE

DONE AS WE WERE BUILDING THE PROPOSALS AND OPTIONS.
THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF STUDIES AND EVALUATIONS AND
REPORTS THAT HAVE BEEN DONE OVER THE PAST TWO, THREE, FOUR
YEARS.
SOME OF THEM WERE INCOMPLETE, SOME OF THEM DIDN'T GO FAR
ENOUGH.
WHAT WE WANTED WAS AN ASSESSMENT -- AN HONEST ASSESSMENT,
AN INDEPENDENT ASSESSMENT OF WHERE WE STAND IN TERMS OF OUR
PREPAREDNESS AND OUR ABILITY TO EMBARK ON TRANSIT
SOLUTIONS, ALL KINDS OF TRANSIT SOLUTIONS, NOT JUST RAIL,
BUS RAPID TRANSIT, OTHER FIXED GUIDEWAY SOLUTIONS, SO I
WOULD CHARACTERIZE -- TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, I WOULD
CHARACTERIZE THE REPORT AS AN ASSESSMENT, A HEALTH CHECKUP
ON WHERE WE ARE AS A COMMUNITY, AND THE REPORT AND THE
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY INDICATES THAT CURRENTLY, AS WE STAND,
UNDER THE CRITERIA OR THE RULES FOR OBTAINING FEDERAL GRANT
For: 4602
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10
MONEY, THERE ARE SOME AREAS THAT WE'RE DEFICIENT, PRIMARILY

RIDERSHIP, SOME LAND USE DECISIONS THAT WE CAN -- WE CAN
CHANGE, BUT THOSE ARE ISSUES THAT ARE RESOLVABLE, AND IF WE
BEGIN SOON TO ADDRESS THEM, WE CAN BE ELIGIBLE FOR AND
PREPARED FOR FEDERAL GRANT MONEY.
SO IT'S NOT AT ALL A STATEMENT THAT, YOU KNOW, WE ARE NOT A
COMMUNITY THAT CAN BECOME TRANSIT-ORIENTED OR THAT CAN HAVE
RAIL, IT'S SIMPLY A -- AN ASSESSMENT OF WHERE WE ARE TODAY,
THE STEPS WE NEED TO TAKE TO BE PREPARED.
>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:
GOOD.
AND THAT'S -- AND AS I READ THE REPORT IN DETAIL TODAY,

THAT'S WHAT IT SEEMED TO ME.
THERE WAS NO CONCLUSION, THERE WAS NOTHING THAT SAID THAT
THIS IS A COMMITTEE ABOUT A TAX OR THIS IS A COMMITTEE
ABOUT RAIL, IT WAS AN OVERALL CONCLUSION AS AN OUTLINE
BEFORE WE TAKE THIS TO THE PUBLIC BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, OUT OF
THE -- OUT OF THE RUBBLE OF FOUR YEARS AGO, MY INSISTENCE
WAS TO PUT THIS COMMITTEE TOGETHER.
I'M NOT SAYING I'M TAKING CREDIT FOR THIS, BUT I TALKED
ABOUT THAT A GREAT DEAL, AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT I'M
NOT TAKING CREDIT TO THOSE OF US WHO ARE SITTING HERE BUT
THAT I WAS INSISTENT THAT THIS NEXT STEP BE COMMUNITY
DRIVEN, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'VE DONE HERE OVER THE LAST YEAR
IS TO ASSIMILATE THE BITS AND PIECES TO GO OUT AND GET THE
APPROPRIATE INPUT SO WHEN WE GO TO WHATEVER THE NEXT STEP
IS THAT WE HAVE EVERYBODY PARTICIPATING, BUT, AGAIN, I
DON'T SEE THIS -- AND I WANTED TO MAKE SURE I HAD NOT
MISREAD SOMETHING -- AS A CONCLUSION BUT AS TOOLS IN THE
For: 4602
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11
TOOLBOX; AM I CORRECT?
>>MIKE MERRILL:
ABSOLUTELY.
>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:
OKAY.
I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY -- HOW MANY OTHERS HAVE READ THIS
REPORT, BUT I READ IT TODAY, AND I DON'T -- I DON'T RECALL
RECEIVING IT IN MY OFFICE, BUT WHERE -- WAS IT POSTED?
>>MIKE MERRILL:
IT'S POSTED ON THE WEB SITE.
IT WAS POSTED SHORTLY AFTER THE MEDIA BRIEFING THAT WE HAD

A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO.
>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:
>>MIKE MERRILL:
OKAY.
THE AUTHOR OF IT IS HERE, KEN SISLAK, FROM
AECOM, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.

WE WANTED TO MAKE HIM AVAILABLE, BUT ->>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:
>>MIKE MERRILL:
KEN SISLAK.
>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:
>>MIKE MERRILL:
WHAT WAS HIS NAME?
OKAY.
BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU'VE
CHARACTERIZED IT PROPERLY, COMMISSIONER, AND -- SO IT'S ONE

OF THOSE THINGS WHERE YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE FACTS ARE,
YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S YOUR HEALTH TODAY AS A COMMUNITY
FOR TRANSIT, AND THEN YOU SAY, I DON'T KNOW IF I WANT TO
HEAR THE ANSWER, BUT WE NEEDED TO KNOW THE ANSWER, AND THE
ANSWER IS NOT NEGATIVE.
>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:
>>MIKE MERRILL:
NO, IT'S GOOD INFORMATION.
GOOD INFORMATION.
>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:
AND I'M NOT INTERRUPTING YOU, BUT IT'S
GOOD INFORMATION, AND I HOPE EVERYBODY IN THE PUBLIC READS

IT AS WE GO FORWARD HERE.
For: 4602
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12
>>MIKE MERRILL:
>>MARK SHARPE:
RIGHT.
CAN I ASK YOU, WAS THE -- THE ASSESSMENT
THAT WAS DONE, THOUGH, DOES IT TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION -I'VE ASKED MR. SISLAK THE ANSWER -- THE NEW CRITERIA ->>MIKE MERRILL:
>>MARK SHARPE:
>>MIKE MERRILL:
YES.
-- THAT HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED BY FTA?
RIGHT.
ABSOLUTELY.
AND HE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT.
IT ABSOLUTELY DOES, AND THAT'S REALLY WHY THE LANDSCAPE HAS
CHANGED FROM WHERE WE WERE A FEW YEARS AGO, BECAUSE THE
CRITERIA FOR BECOMING ELIGIBLE FOR GRANT MONEY HAS CHANGED,
AND TO BE COMPETITIVE, WE NEED TO KNOW NOW WHAT STEPS DO WE
NEED TO TAKE TO BE COMPETITIVE WHEN WE'RE READY TO GO FOR
GRANTS.
THAT'S SIMPLY THE QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED, WHERE ARE WE
TODAY, WHAT DO WE NEED TO HAVE TO DO -- WHAT DO WE NEED TO
DO TO BE PREPARED, AND THAT'S WHAT HE'S GIVEN US.
>>MARK SHARPE:
MR. SUAREZ.
>>MIKE SUAREZ:
THANK YOU, CHAIR.
MR. MERRILL, NOW, THE AECOM STUDY -- AND I'M WITH

COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM, YOU KNOW, I HAVEN'T SEEN IT
UNTIL AFTER, OF COURSE, WHEN YOU-ALL POSTED IT -- THAT WAS
NOT IN CONJUNCTION WITH HART BECAUSE I DON'T THINK WE -- WE
HAD DONE -- THIS IS FROM THE COUNTY'S PERSPECTIVE TO GET AN
INDEPENDENT ASSESSMENT.
>>MIKE MERRILL:
>>MIKE SUAREZ:
For: 4602
MM-HMM.
IS THE PERSON WHO DID THE STUDY -- IS THAT
Page 940 of 1954


13
WHAT THEY DO IS JUST TRANSPORTATION TYPE STUDIES, BECAUSE

AECOM IS A HUGE CORPORATION, DOES A LOT OF DIFFERENT
THINGS, AND THIS WAS JUST A TRANSIT ASSESSMENT LOOK?
BECAUSE WE WEREN'T INVOLVED IN IT, CORRECT, THE HART BOARD,
I DON'T THINK, OR ->>MIKE MERRILL:
NOT THE HART BOARD, BUT IT WAS PART OF A
GROUP EFFORT, WHICH INCLUDED ALL THE AGENCIES ->>MIKE SUAREZ:
YEAH.
OKAY.
>>MIKE MERRILL:
>>MIKE SUAREZ:
SO -IF I COULD, MR. MERRILL, LET ME ASK
MS. EAGAN ABOUT THAT.

CAN I BRING HER UP REAL QUICK BEFORE YOU FINISH?
>>MIKE MERRILL:
>>MIKE SUAREZ:
SURE.
I WANT TO ASK HER HER ROLE IN THE AECOM
STUDY.
>>KATHARINE EAGAN:
YEAH.
AS MR. MERRILL'S NOTING -- AND THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION,

COUNCILMAN.
STAFF FROM VARIOUS AGENCIES PARTICIPATED IN THE PROJECT
MANAGEMENT GROUP, AND IN MAY WE DID RECEIVE A PRESENTATION
WITH MR. SISLAK IN THE AUDIENCE AFTER THE STUDY WAS
CONCLUDED, SHARING THE FINDINGS AND SOME OF THE INFORMATION
COMING BACK FROM THE STUDY, SO WE DID SEE IT AS PART OF THE
PROJECT MANAGEMENT GROUP.
IT WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT HART HAD PARTICIPATED IN IN
SCOPING OR TAKING OUT ON THE STREET.
>>MIKE SUAREZ:
For: 4602
RIGHT.
Page 941 of 1954


14
>>KATHARINE EAGAN:
AND IT IS DISTINCT FROM THE PROCESS
THAT THE FEDERAL GRANTEE WOULD GO THROUGH.

IT IS A FOUNDATIONAL DOCUMENT THAT WOULD GO THROUGH, BUT IT
DOES NOT SUBSTITUTE WHAT A GRANTEE WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH
TO MAKE THE DECISIONS ON TRANSIT INVESTMENTS.
>>MIKE SUAREZ:
OKAY.
I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE, THIS WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE

WERE INTIMATELY INVOLVED IN ON THE AECOM PROCESS, I JUST
WANTED TO MAKE SURE OF THAT?
>>MIKE MERRILL:
NO, BUT THE CONSULTANT WAS PART OF THE
GROUP BACK IN 2010 DURING THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE AA, SO HE

WENT BACK AND LOOKED AT ALL OF THE WORK THAT HAD BEEN DONE,
NOT JUST THE AA, BUT HE WENT BACK -- I MEAN, HE CAN SPEAK
FOR HIMSELF, BUT -- SO IT WAS A COMPREHENSIVE STUDY
INCLUDING THE AA, BUT HE WAS PART OF THAT EFFORT BACK
DURING THE PRIOR ATTEMPT.
SO HE HAD THAT PERSPECTIVE, BUT IT WAS ALSO LET'S JUST TAKE
A FRESH LOOK, GIVEN THE NEW CRITERIA, WHERE DO WE STACK UP;
IT'S NOW FOUR YEARS LATER, THINGS HAVE CHANGED, WHERE DO WE
STAND.
>>MIKE SUAREZ:
>>MIKE MERRILL:
GOT IT.
AND IT'S NOT AN INDICTMENT AT ALL, IT'S
JUST SIMPLY ->>MIKE SUAREZ:
NO.
THE QUESTION WAS JUST WHETHER OR NOT WE HAD PARTICIPATED AS

A GROUP AND THAT'S ALL.
I JUST WANTED TO FIND OUT ABOUT THAT.
>>MIKE MERRILL:
For: 4602
ABSOLUTELY.
Page 942 of 1954


15
>>MIKE SUAREZ:
THANK YOU, CHAIR.
>>MARK SHARPE:
COMMISSIONER MURMAN.
>>SANDRA MURMAN:
THANK YOU.
AND I JUST WANT TO MAKE A FEW COMMENTS.

YOUR LEADERSHIP ON THIS, OBVIOUSLY, HAS BEEN WONDERFUL, AND
THESE COMMENTS TODAY HAVE BEEN REFRESHING, ESPECIALLY FOR
ME, AND I THINK COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM REALLY TOUCHED ON
IT QUITE A BIT, BECAUSE WE'RE MOVING FROM THIS GOVERNANCE
CONVERSATION TO THE MOBILITY CONVERSATION.
WE NEED TO FIND OUT WHAT THE MOBILITY SOLUTIONS ARE BEFORE
WE CAN DECIDE WHAT THE GOVERNANCE SOLUTIONS ARE, AND I
THINK HAVING THIS BE A PEOPLE-CENTRIC PROPOSAL WILL BE -WILL PUT US ALL AT EASE WHEN WE COME BACK HERE AND HAVE TO
MAKE ANY DEFINITIVE DECISIONS ON WHAT A -- OR WHAT THE
SOLUTION WILL BE, WHETHER IT BE A REFERENDUM OR WHATEVER
THE SOLUTION IS, BUT I THINK THAT PUTTING THE GOVERNANCE
THING ON THE BACK BURNER FOR NOW IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
IT'LL, OF COURSE, ALLOW TIME FOR YOU-ALL TO WORK TOGETHER,
AS I PROPOSED AT THE HART BOARD MEETING, BUT I THINK
REPOSITIONING OUR EFFORTS TO TAKE THIS AGGREGATED DATA OUT
TO THE PUBLIC AND REALLY GET THEM TO OWN THIS -- I REMEMBER
A LONG TIME AGO WHEN DICK LUGAR WAS TRYING TO MAKE A CITYCOUNTY GOVERNMENT.
HE -- HE DID THAT.
HE WENT OUT INTO ALL OF THE LITTLE NOOKS AND CRANNIES OF
INDIANAPOLIS AND MARION COUNTY AND GOT PEOPLE TO BUY INTO
IT SO WHEN IT CAME UP TWO YEARS LATER, IT WAS A SLAM-DUNK
PROPOSAL, AND I THINK THAT'S -- THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO
For: 4602
Page 943 of 1954


16
REALLY DO.
WE'VE GOT TO ALLOW TIME FOR THIS TO BUILD INTEREST AND NOT
RUSH INTO IT.
IF WE SLAPPED A PLAN OUT THERE AND EXPECT PEOPLE TO BUY
INTO IT, WE'RE, WHAT, 18 -- MORE THAN 18 MONTHS AWAY, TWO
YEARS -- MORE THAN TWO YEARS AWAY.
I MEAN, I CAN'T EVEN -- I'M NOT SURE IT WOULD BE
SUCCESSFUL.
>>MIKE MERRILL:
RIGHT.
>>SANDRA MURMAN:
BUT I THINK THIS WILL ALLOW US TO BUILD A
SUCCESSFUL CAMPAIGN, ALLOWING US TO BRAND IT, TAKE INTO

ACCOUNT ALL THE DIFFERENT -- YOU KNOW, WAIT TO SEE IF
GREENLIGHT PASSES.
THAT'S GOING TO BE, I THINK, AN IMPORTANT ELEMENT.
I THINK BRINGING IN, WHEN YOU DO THE BRANDING CAMPAIGN,
SOMEONE WHO'S AN EXPERT IN TRANSPORTATION, ALLOW US TO DO
THIS PEOPLE-CENTRIC PROPOSAL, KIND OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE
PEOPLE THAT DID THE INVISION CAMPAIGN FOR THE MAYOR.
>>MIKE MERRILL:
>>SANDRA MURMAN:
RIGHT.
THEY TOOK THAT THING OUT, THEY HAD
WORKSHOPS -- DRAWING WORKSHOPS, DESIGN WORKSHOPS, THEY

HAD -- AND THEY LAYERED IT INTO A SERIES OF THINGS, AND I
THINK YOU'RE LAYING OUT A REALLY GOOD TIME -- I THINK THE
TIMING'S GOING TO BE CRITICAL, BUT YOU'RE LAYING OUT A
WELL-THOUGHT-OUT PROCESS OF WHAT -- HOW WE CAN ENGAGE AND
HOW WE AS COMMISSIONERS AND ELECTED OFFICIALS CAN GO OUT TO
OUR CONSTITUENTS AND ALSO ENGAGE IN THAT CONVERSATION,
BECAUSE WE'VE GOT PLENTY OF TIME BEFORE ANY BALLOT
For: 4602
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17
INITIATIVE, IF THERE IS ONE, WOULD BE DEVELOPED.

AND I THINK EVERY STEP, WE CAN'T LET A DAY GO BY WITHOUT
DOING SOMETHING ON THIS, WITHOUT SOME PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT,
WHETHER IT BE SOCIAL MEDIA OR SOME CAMPAIGN, WHATEVER WE
WANT TO DO, BUT I DO THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT WHAT YOU
SAID, DO IT RIGHT AND GET IT DONE.
IT'S GOING TO BE THE MOST IMPORTANT ELEMENTS OF THIS PLAN
IS DOING THAT, SO I HOPE THAT WE'LL DO -- CONTINUE WITH THE
STAKEHOLDER MEETINGS.
I KNOW YOU'RE DOING QUITE A BIT NOW TO ENGAGE THE PUBLIC,
BUT -- I KNOW WE HAVE A BUSY ELECTION SEASON COMING UP,
AND -- AFTER THE PRIMARIES ARE OVER, AND I HOPE THAT JUST
ALL OF NEXT YEAR, 2015, WILL BE SPENT REALLY TAKING THIS
OUT AND LETTING -- LETTING THIS BE THE PEOPLE'S PLAN.
SO GOOD JOB.
THANK YOU.
>>MIKE MERRILL:
>>SANDRA MURMAN:
THANK YOU.
GOOD EFFORT.
>>MIKE MERRILL:
THANK YOU.
>>HERB MARLOWE:
I'D LIKE TO WALK YOU THROUGH WHAT WE'RE
GOING TO CALL PHASE I, AND OUR CONCEPT IN THIS IS WE'D LIKE

TO GO OUT, DO SOME INTENSIVE STUFF, AND THEN ASK YOU TO
COME BACK AND MEET WITH US SO THAT YOU CAN SHARE WHAT
YOU'RE HEARING FROM THE COMMUNITY, WE CAN SHARE WHAT WE'VE
HEARD, AND THEN JOINTLY WE'LL DESIGN PHASE II, WHICH IT MAY
BE.
SO WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS GO OUT AND LISTEN TO THE
PUBLIC, UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY SEE AS THE NEED, UNDERSTAND
For: 4602
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18
HOW THEY VALUE THESE INVESTMENTS; WE WANT TO UNDERSTAND

THEIR WILLINGNESS TO MAKE MAJOR INVESTMENTS, AND IN SUM,
WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS UNDERSTAND THE NEEDS,
ASPIRATIONS, AND VALUES OF THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE FOR YOU TO
BE EFFECTIVE LEADERS ON THAT, WE HAVE -- YOU HAVE TO BE
ALIGNED WITH THOSE NEEDS, ASPIRATIONS, AND VALUES, SO
THAT'S THE INTENT OF THIS EFFORT.
THERE ARE A NUMBER OF CONVERSATION POINTS WE WANT TO HAVE.
WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT SAFETY; TALK ABOUT PROTECTING THE
EXISTING ASSETS THAT YOU'VE INVESTED IN; REDUCING COMMUTE
TIMES; PROVIDING BROADER CHOICES, TRANSPORTATION CHOICES;
CONNECTING JOBS AND PEOPLE; CONNECTING FREIGHT AND
CUSTOMERS; AND THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF EQUITY, THAT IF IT'S A
BROAD, [INCOMPREHENSIBLE] SHARED TAX, EVERYBODY NEEDS TO
BENEFIT.
SO THOSE ARE THE CONVERSATION POINTS THAT WE WANT TO HAVE
WITH THE COMMUNITY AS WE GO OUT.
THERE ARE A VARIETY OF PUBLICS THAT WE'RE GOING TO ENGAGE
IN.
WE NEED TO ENGAGE IN A NUMBER OF THE PARTICIPATING AGENCIES
HERE AND UNDERSTAND THEIR LEADERSHIP UNDERSTANDS WHAT WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT.
WE HAVE ANCHOR INSTITUTIONS SUCH AS UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH
FLORIDA, UNIVERSITY OF TAMPA, ET CETERA.
WE WANT TO ENSURE THEIR INPUT, THEIR CONCERNS WE'VE HEARD
FROM THEM.
THERE ARE A NUMBER OF GROUPS IN THIS COMMUNITY CONCERNED
WITH ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, TAMPA BAY PARTNERSHIP, GREATER
For: 4602
Page 946 of 1954


19
TAMPA CHAMBER, ET CETERA.

WE WANT TO ENSURE THAT THIS IS RESPONSIVE TO WHERE THEY SEE
THEIR BUSINESSES ARE AND WHERE THEY'RE GOING.
IN THE VERY EARLY PARTS OF THIS PROCESS, YOU HEARD FROM
SOME OF THOSE FOLKS.
THERE ARE A NUMBER OF TRADE ASSOCIATIONS THAT WE NEED TO
MEET WITH AND VARIOUS TRANSPORTATION INTEREST GROUPS.
YOU'VE GOT YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS.
AND, ULTIMATELY, WE'RE TRYING TO REACH ALL THE RESIDENTS.
BUT IN OUR FIRST PHASE WE REALLY WANT TO MAKE SURE WE GET
OUT TO THOSE FOLKS WHO HAVE SOME SORT OF LEADERSHIP
RESPONSIBILITY SO THAT THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT AS WELL AS GET TO THOSE FOLKS WHO HAVE BUSY LIVES,
YOU KNOW, AND THEY'RE CONCERNED WITH GETTING TO WORK AND
GETTING THEIR KIDS TO SCHOOL AND TO THE DOCTOR AND ALL THAT
STUFF SO WE CAN UNDERSTAND THEIR NEEDS.
SO THAT'S THE FOLKS WE'LL BE REACHING OUT TO.
THIS IS A VARIETY OF TACTICS, AND MR. MERRILL REVIEWED THEM
WITH YOU.
THE ONLY ONE I WOULD TALK ABOUT VERY BRIEFLY IS YOU HAVE A
NUMBER OF TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEES IN THIS COMMUNITY WHO
ARE WORKING ON IT.
WE WANT TO GET ALL THOSE FOLKS TOGETHER IN A ROOM AND TALK
ABOUT THIS SO THAT THEY CAN UNDERSTAND THEIR WORK AND WHAT
THEY'VE DONE AND HOW IT FITS IN AND HOW THIS MOVES, SO WHAT
YOU'LL SEE IS A WIDE VARIETY OF OUTREACH HERE.
AND I WILL SAY IT, EVEN THOUGH IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING,
YOU'RE WELCOME TO PARTICIPATE IN ANY OF THIS YOU WISH TO.
For: 4602
Page 947 of 1954


20
WE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE YOUR PARTICIPATION.

ONE OF OUR CONCERNS IS WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE A
UNIFORMITY AND CONSISTENCY OF MESSAGE.
THIS IS A VERY LARGE AND COMPLEX PROCESS AND PROJECT.
IT'S EASY TO MISUNDERSTAND, MISINTERPRET, SO WE WANT TO -ONE OF THE THINGS WE WILL DO IS WE'RE GOING TO HAVE
TRAINING SESSIONS FOR EVERYBODY WHO AGREES TO SPEAK SO THAT
WE HAVE THE SAME MESSAGE.
WE'LL HAVE FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS SO WE CAN HAVE
CONSISTENT RESPONSES.
WE'LL HAVE COORDINATED WEB SITES.
YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO ENSURE WE'RE SENDING THE SAME MESSAGE
WHEREVER WE'RE AT, AND, OBVIOUSLY, IT'S LOCALLY ADAPTED IN
TERMS OF SPECIFIC PROJECTS OR SOMETHING, BUT WE WANT TO
MAKE SURE WE'RE SENDING A CONSISTENT MESSAGE.
OUR FIRST PHASE IS TO TRY TO BE AGGRESSIVE, AND WE WANT TO
GO OUT AND BE PREPARED AFTER LABOR DAY TO START THE
CONVERSATIONS AND TO HAVE THOSE THROUGH SEPTEMBER AND THE
FIRST PARTS OF OCTOBER.
DEPENDING UPON YOUR SCHEDULES AND AVAILABILITY, WE WOULD
LIKE TO MEET AGAIN WITH YOU LATE OCTOBER, EARLY NOVEMBER.
YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY GOING TO GET A LOT OF FEEDBACK IN THIS
PROCESS.
YOU'LL HEAR FROM FOLKS, WE'LL HAVE HEARD A LOT OF STUFF.
WE'D LIKE TO, THEN, TALK TO YOU ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK IS
REASONABLE FOR PHASE II, IF THERE IS, INDEED, A PHASE II.
THERE ARE A LOT OF OPTIONS FOR THAT, BUT WE'D LIKE TO GO
OUT AND GET SOME IN-DEPTH EXPERIENCE AND UNDERSTANDING
For: 4602
Page 948 of 1954


21
BEFORE WE DESIGN A FURTHER PROCESS.

SO IF YOU WILL, CONSIDER THIS AS PHASE II.
IN THAT LINE, WE WILL -- WITH YOUR PERMISSION, WE WILL
CANCEL THE SEPTEMBER MEETING OF THIS BODY, AND WE WILL MOVE
BACK THE OCTOBER MEETING TO A DATE LATER IN OCTOBER, EARLY
NOVEMBER, WHATEVER WE CAN NEGOTIATE ON YOUR SCHEDULES.
IF YOU WISH TO MEET, WE'LL BE HAPPY TO DO THAT, BUT WE'D -AT THIS POINT, WE THINK IT'S PROBABLY MORE PRODUCTIVE FOR
YOUR TIME AND OUR TIME FOR US TO BE OUT WORKING IN THE
COMMUNITY ON THESE VARIOUS PROJECTS.
SO THAT'S THE SCHEDULE WE'D LIKE TO ADHERE TO.
WE DO HAVE A COMMUNICATION GROUP WHICH REPRESENTS THE
COMMUNICATION OFFICERS OF ALL YOUR ENTITIES.
WE MEET EVERY FRIDAY, AND THIS FRIDAY MORNING WE WILL
DEVELOP A DETAILED WORK PLAN IF YOU GIVE US THE PERMISSION
TO GO FORWARD TODAY.
COMMISSIONER MILLER.
>>LES MILLER, JR.:
>>HERB MARLOWE:
LET ME GET A CLARIFICATION.
SURE.
>>LES MILLER, JR.:
[INCOMPREHENSIBLE] A CLARIFICATION.
YOU'VE GOT MATERIAL DEVELOPMENT SCHEDULING IN AUGUST,

YOU'VE GOT BRIEFINGS IN AUGUST THROUGH OCTOBER ->>HERB MARLOWE:
YES, SIR.
>>LES MILLER, JR.:
-- OPEN HOUSES LATE SEPTEMBER/OCTOBER.
WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU GOING TO BE PRESENTING?

ARE YOU GOING TO BE PRESENTING THIS PROPOSAL THAT WE HAVE
PLANNED?
WHAT EXACTLY --
For: 4602
Page 949 of 1954


22
>>HERB MARLOWE:
SURE.
>>LES MILLER, JR.:

>>HERB MARLOWE:
-- WILL BE PRESENTED?
WE'LL BE PRESENTING PART OF WHAT
MR. MERRILL SHOWED YOU TODAY IN TERMS OF THIS IS THE HIGH

LEVEL.
WE HAVE -- FOR EACH AREA OF THE COUNTY WE CAN TALK ABOUT
SPECIFIC PROJECTS AND THOSE AREAS IF THOSE ARE THEIR
CONCERNS, WE CAN TALK IN-DEPTH ABOUT ANY OF THE OTHER
MATERIALS.
MR. MERRILL, WOULD YOU LIKE TO REPLY?
>>MIKE MERRILL:
LET ME JUST KIND OF WEIGH IN ON THAT.
I THINK, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT IS

BRINGING BACK TO YOU IN OCTOBER THE RESULTS OF THE
CONVERSATION, NO CONCLUSIONS, NO ASKING FOR ANY VOTES.
IT'S A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.
IT'S SIX TO EIGHT WEEKS, IT'S NOT A LOT OF TIME, SO IT'S
KIND OF JUST BRINGING BACK, LET YOU KNOW WHAT WE HEARD,
GETTING YOUR DIRECTION ON GOING FORWARD WITH ADDITIONAL
PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT.
SO THAT'S REALLY WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH IN THIS
SHORT WINDOW.
>>LES MILLER, JR.:
DO WE HAVE A NUMBER OF COMMUNITY
MEETINGS, WHETHER THEY'RE WITH ANY COMMUNITY, HOMEOWNERS

ASSOCIATIONS, CIVIC GROUPS -- HAVE WE LOOKED AT WHERE WE'LL
BE GOING AND WHO WE'LL BE TALKING TO?
I MEAN ->>HERB MARLOWE:
WE HAVE ALL THAT PRELIMINARILY IDENTIFIED.
WE OBVIOUSLY, SINCE WE DON'T HAVE YOUR PERMISSION TO
For: 4602
Page 950 of 1954


23
PROCEED YET, HAVE NOT BEGUN ANY SCHEDULING OF THAT, BUT

EACH OF THE MEMBER ORGANIZATIONS HAS THEIR LIST OF
COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS, SO WE HAVE THAT IDENTIFIED, AND
WE'LL BEGIN WORKING ON THAT THIS FRIDAY IF WE GET YOUR
PERMISSION TO GO FORWARD.
>>LES MILLER, JR.:
AND IF WE GIVE THAT PERMISSION, WILL
YOU BE SHARING THAT WITH US SO WE CAN MAKE SURE EVERYBODY >>HERB MARLOWE:
ABSOLUTELY.
WE WILL SEND YOU OUR LIST AND ASK YOU TO ADD TO IT.
>>LES MILLER, JR.:
WELL, MY CONCERN IS IS THAT WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT A 60-DAY SPAN, IF I'M FIGURING THIS OUT

RIGHT.
IT'S GOING TO BE AWFULLY DIFFICULT TO HIT EVERY NOOK AND
CRANNY WITHIN 60 DAYS TO TRY TO GET THE MESSAGE OUT AND
HEAR WHAT PEOPLE HAVE TO SAY.
>>HERB MARLOWE:
WE DON'T PRETEND WE CAN GET TO EVERY NOOK
AND CRANNY IN 60 DAYS.

WHAT WE DID WANT TO DO IS TRY TO GET OUT FAR ENOUGH TO BE
ABLE TO START TO HEAR SOME THEMES AND CONCERNS, AND AT THAT
SAME TIME, WE BELIEVE PEOPLE WILL START TALKING TO YOU-ALL
ABOUT THAT.
THEN WE'D LIKE TO MEET WITH YOU AGAIN, HEAR WHAT YOU'VE
HEARD, WE CAN SHARE WHAT WE HAVE, AND DEVELOP A MORE
LONGER-TERM PLAN THAT IT WOULD TAKE TO COVER THIS ENTIRE
COUNTY.
>>LES MILLER, JR.:
>>HERB MARLOWE:
For: 4602
AND THEN GO BACK OUT TO THE --
YEAH, AND GO BACK OUT AGAIN.
Page 951 of 1954


24
SO THIS IS WHAT WE'RE CALLING PHASE I, LET'S GO OUT THERE,

LET'S HEAR SOME THINGS, ASK SOME QUESTIONS.
WE BELIEVE YOU'LL GET A LOT OF FEEDBACK IN THAT PROCESS,
THEN LET'S COME TOGETHER, TALK ABOUT IT, AND JOINTLY
PROPOSE A PHASE II.
>>LES MILLER, JR.:
YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS
CRYSTAL CLEAR, BECAUSE IN 2010, EVERYTHING WASN'T CRYSTAL

CLEAR.
>>HERB MARLOWE:
RIGHT.
>>LES MILLER, JR.:
IT WAS VERY MUDDY, AND THAT'S WHAT
HAPPENED TO IT.
>>HERB MARLOWE:
OKAY.
>>LES MILLER, JR.:
AND IF WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL
THE WORK THAT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR THE LAST YEAR AND A HALF
IS PUT INTO PLACE AND WE CAN COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT
EVERYONE CAN ADHERE TO AND ADJUST TO AND LOVE AND VOTE FOR,
HOPEFULLY, IF WE CAN GET TO THAT POINT, WE WANT TO MAKE
SURE IT'S CRYSTAL CLEAR, BECAUSE IF WE DON'T, WE'RE DOOMED
TO FAIL.
>>HERB MARLOWE:
SURE.
>>LES MILLER, JR.:

>>HERB MARLOWE:
WE DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN.
LET ME BUILD UPON MR. MERRILL'S COMMENTS.
YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT GOING OUT THERE TRYING TO DO A SELL AT

THIS POINT ->>LES MILLER, JR.:
>>HERB MARLOWE:
NO, NOT AT ALL.
-- WE'RE NOT ASKING -- BUT WE'RE JUST
TRYING TO HEAR, AND PART OF HEARING WILL MAKE THAT MESSAGE

CLEARER.
For: 4602
Page 952 of 1954


25
YOU KNOW, WE SAID THIS AND PEOPLE THOUGHT WE WERE SAYING

THIS; WE USED THIS TERM AND THEY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT.
SO THE WHOLE PART OF THAT IS GETTING OUR MESSAGE VERY
SHARPENED AND CLEAR.
>>LES MILLER, JR.:
DO UNDERSTAND, I'M NOT STALKING ABOUT A
SALE ->>HERB MARLOWE:
I UNDERSTAND, YES, SIR.
>>LES MILLER, JR.:
-- I'M TALKING ABOUT HEARING WHAT THE
PEOPLE HAVE TO SAY.

>>HERB MARLOWE:
YES, SIR.
THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO DO, BUT PART OF GETTING IT CLEAR IS

UNDERSTANDING VERY FULLY WHAT THEY'RE SAYING.
>>LES MILLER, JR.:
OKAY.
JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE.

>>HERB MARLOWE:
YES, SIR, ABSOLUTELY.
COMMISSIONER BECKNER.
>>KEVIN BECKNER:
WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT GOING OUT AND HAVING
A CONVERSATION WITH PEOPLE, HOW ARE WE DOCUMENTING OR HOW

ARE WE MEASURING THE CONVERSATION THAT WE'RE HAVING?
IN OTHER WORDS, ARE WE HAVING SOME TYPE OF A SURVEY
INSTRUMENT THAT WE'RE TAKING?
HOW ARE WE GOING TO RECORD ALL THIS?
>>HERB MARLOWE:
WE HAVEN'T FINALIZED IT YET, BUT WE HAVE
DEVELOPED A DRAFT SORT OF MINI SURVEY CARD THAT AS WE HAVE

CONVERSATIONS, PEOPLE COULD RATE US, GIVE US FEEDBACK.
EACH OF THESE FORMS ARE SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT, SO YOU'LL GET
THE FEEDBACK.
WE DEFINITELY WANT TO, ONE, GET THE FEEDBACK, AND, TWO,
For: 4602
Page 953 of 1954


26
DOCUMENT IT IN A WAY THAT WE CAN ORGANIZE IT, SAY HERE'S

THE THEMES WE HEARD, THIS COMES UP CONSISTENTLY HERE OR
WHATEVER, SO WE WILL NOT DO -- AT THIS PHASE, WE'RE NOT
DOING A FORMAL SCIENTIFIC SURVEY, WE'RE DOING MORE
QUALITATIVE SURVEYING.
>>MIKE MERRILL:
I THINK ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT I
KNOW HAS BEEN EXPRESSED BY SOME OF THE MEMBERS AND REALLY

IS A QUESTION FOR YOU IS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE -- WE SHOULD -WE'RE THINKING WE SHOULD REALLY ENGAGE SOMEONE TO ASSIST US
-- ASSIST US WITH THIS, SOMEONE IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR WHO
DOES THIS WORK FOR A LIVING.
AGAIN, WE'RE NOT SELLING ANYTHING, BUT WE WANT TO BRING
SOMETHING BACK TO YOU THAT -- THAT'S GOING TO BE USEFUL TO
YOU, SO ONE OPTION WOULD BE FOR US TO ENGAGE SOMEONE TO
HELP US PUT TOGETHER THE KIND OF SPECIFICS THAT YOU'RE
ASKING FOR, BUT THAT'S -- THAT'S UP TO YOU.
>>KEVIN BECKNER:
SO -- AND I KNOW WE HAD CONVERSATIONS IN
THE PAST WHEN WE WERE GOING TO BE GOING OUT AND ENGAGING

THE PUBLIC.
ARE YOU GOING OUT TALKING ABOUT THE SPECIFIC PROJECT LIST
THAT IS STARTING TO BE CIRCULATED OR ARE WE TALKING -GOING BACK AND TALKING MORE GENERALITIES ABOUT WHAT THEIR
THOUGHTS AND THE CONCEPTS WHAT THEY HAVE -- WHAT THE
MULTIMODAL TRANSPORTATION MIGHT MEAN TO THE PUBLIC?
>>MIKE MERRILL:
YEAH, IT'S A MORE GENERIC CONVERSATION.
THE DIFFERENCE NOW IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE IDEAS -- I

MEAN, THERE'S MORE INFORMATION SO THAT FOLKS KNOW, FOR
EXAMPLE -- NOW THEY KNOW WHAT THEY DIDN'T KNOW BEFORE ABOUT
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27
OUR REPAVING BACKLOG, I MEAN, THAT'S A PRETTY IMPORTANT

FACT, OR ABOUT SAFETY PROJECTS.
SO AS WE TALK -- HAVE A CONVERSATION GENERICALLY ABOUT HOW
THEY FEEL ABOUT TRANSPORTATION NEEDS, AT LEAST IT'S
BRACKETED OR AT LEAST THERE'S A CONTEXT NOW, IT'S NOT JUST,
YOU KNOW, WELL, DO YOU LIKE BUSES, DO YOU LIKE, YOU KNOW,
ROADS, I MEAN, IT'S GROUNDED IN SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT MORE
FACTUAL BECAUSE THE PROJECTS CAME FROM ALL THE CITIES AND
THE COUNTY AND FROM HART, AND SO IT REALLY IS A GOOD CROSSSECTION OF WHAT WE THINK THE NEEDS ARE.
WE DIDN'T -- WE DIDN'T DRAW A LINE AND SAY, WE ONLY THINK
WE SHOULD DO THESE PROJECTS, IT'S REALLY AN UNFILTERED LIST
IN THE SENSE THAT IT'S ALL OUT THERE.
I KNOW SOME PEOPLE MAYBE NOT -- DON'T LIKE THAT, THEY THINK
WE SHOULD HAVE SOMEHOW COME UP WITH A BALANCE, BUT, I MEAN,
THAT'S NOT FAIR, IT'S NOT HELPFUL TO PEOPLE UNLESS THEY CAN
KIND OF SEE WHAT -- WHAT'S OUT THERE, WHAT HAVEN'T WE BEEN
ABLE TO DO.
AND, YOU KNOW, I HAD A -- LUCIA AND I HAD A MEETING AT
SOUTHSHORE -- SOUTH COUNTY SOUTHSHORE ROUNDTABLE LAST WEEK,
AND IT WAS KIND OF OUR FIRST OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE THAT
CONVERSATION, AND IT WAS A VERY GOOD CONVERSATION.
WE DIDN'T TALK A LOT ABOUT SPECIFIC PROJECTS, BUT IT SURE
WAS HELPFUL TO THEM TO BE ABLE TO SEE, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS -WHAT IS THIS PROBLEM WE'RE TALKING ABOUT?
I MEAN, IT'S KIND OF ALMOST THE CONVERSATION IS WHAT IS THE
PROBLEM, AND HOW CAN WE DESCRIBE THE PROBLEM?
WELL, YOU CAN DESCRIBE IT BY SAYING, IF YOU HAVE POTHOLES
For: 4602
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28
ON YOUR STREETS AND IT'S DAMAGING YOUR AUTOMOBILES, THAT'S

BECAUSE WE HAVE $745 MILLION COUNTYWIDE IN REPAVING
BACKLOGS, YOU KNOW.
WHY DO WE HAVE THE NUMBER OF BICYCLE AND PEDESTRIAN
INJURIES AND DEATHS THAT WE DO?
BECAUSE HERE ARE THE SIDEWALK PROJECTS, HERE ARE THE OTHER
PROJECTS THAT WE THINK YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT, PROCESS,
FEEDBACK TO US.
>>KEVIN BECKNER:
SO IT'S REALLY ABOUT DEFINING IN THE
PUBLIC'S MINDS AND THEIR PERCEPTION OF WHAT THE PROBLEM

IS ->>MIKE MERRILL:
>>KEVIN BECKNER:
YES.
-- WITH TRANSPORTATION OR TRANSIT
SYSTEM -- CONTRARY TO WHAT SOME MAY THINK, I STILL

CATEGORIZE ROADS AS PART OF OUR TRANSIT SYSTEM.
IT ALL INTERCONNECTS TOGETHER.
SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO BE COLLECTING FEEDBACK ON, ON
WHAT ARE THE -- WHAT ARE THE PROBLEMS OR PERCEIVED PROBLEMS
IN SOME OF THE DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE AREAS, AND THAT'S
WHAT WE'LL BE ->>MIKE MERRILL:
AND THE PROBLEMS ARE DIFFERENT IN
DIFFERENT AREAS.
IT'S A LARGE COUNTY.
AND, YOU KNOW, TO YOUR POINT, THE THING WE HEARD AT THE
SOUTHSHORE ROUNDTABLE WAS, YES, WE NEED ROAD EXPANSIONS
BECAUSE WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO GET TO AN EXTENDED BRT THAT'S
GOING TO COME DOWN SO THAT WE CAN TRAVEL -- SO, YES, IT'S
ABSOLUTELY CONNECTED.
For: 4602
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29
>>KEVIN BECKNER:
WELL, AND I THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT WAY TO
START BECAUSE I THINK PART OF THE PROBLEM WE HAD BEFORE

WITH THE OTHER REFERENDUM IS WE PUT OUT PROJECT -- WE PUT
OUT PROJECTS OR PRODUCTS BEFORE WE DEFINED REALLY WHAT THE
PROBLEMS WERE AND WHAT THE POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS WERE, SO I
THINK THAT THIS IS CERTAINLY THE RIGHT WAY TO START THE
CONVERSATIONS, TO FULLY UNDERSTAND IN THE PUBLIC'S MIND AND
GO OUT THERE AND LISTEN TO THEM AS FAR AS, IN THEIR
COMMUNITY, WHAT THESE DIFFERENT PROBLEM AREAS ARE.
WHEN WOULD YOU PERCEIVE, THEN, THAT -- AS FAR AS THE
PROPOSED PROJECTS WOULD BE, I GUESS YOU WOULD COME BACK AND
WE'D LOOK AT WHAT THE FEEDBACK FROM THE PUBLIC WERE AND
THEN PERHAPS, THEN, START PROPOSING SOME OF THE DIFFERENT
PROJECTS AS THE SOLUTIONS TO -- TO THE PROBLEMS PRESENTED?
>>MIKE MERRILL:
>>KEVIN BECKNER:
>>MIKE MERRILL:
I THINK THAT'S IN THE SECOND PHASE.

SECOND -AND THE FIRST PHASE -- I MEAN, WE'RE NOT
SAYING OCTOBER IS SOME SORT OF DEADLINE.

ALL WE'RE SAYING IS WE'RE GOING TO COME BACK TO YOU IN
OCTOBER AND LET YOU KNOW WHAT WE HEARD.
THIS HAS GOTTA -- WE'VE JUST GOTTA KEEP DOING THIS UNTIL
EVERYONE'S SATISFIED, AND IF WE'RE NOT READY TO TALK ABOUT
PROJECTS, WE DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT PROJECTS, BUT AT
LEAST, AS I SAID, THERE'S SOMETHING OUT THERE FOR PEOPLE TO
LOOK AT, AND WE'VE -- SO FAR WE THINK PEOPLE HAVE FOUND
THAT HELPFUL.
>>KEVIN BECKNER:
I WOULD QUALIFY THAT BY SAYING UNTIL -- A
LARGE MAJORITY HAVE SAID THE SAME MESSAGE OVER AGAIN, IF
For: 4602
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30
YOU TRY TO SATISFY EVERYBODY, I THINK WE'LL BE GOING ON FOR

DECADES.
>>MIKE MERRILL:
YES, ABSOLUTELY.
THAT WAS POLLYANNAISH OF ME.

I'M SORRY.
>>KEVIN BECKNER:
AND JUST, FINALLY, WE WILL GET AN OUTLINE
OF WHAT THAT PRESENTATION WILL LOOK LIKE -- WHEN DID YOU

SAY OR WHEN WAS IT PROJECTED THAT WE WOULD KNOW WHAT ->>HERB MARLOWE:
WE'LL BEGIN DEVELOPING -- WELL, WE HAVE A
LOT OF MATERIALS TO DEVELOP, BUT WE'LL BEGIN FORMALIZING

THAT THIS FRIDAY WITH OUR COMMUNICATIONS WORKGROUP, THEN
WE'LL ISSUE AN INVITATION TO ANY OF THOSE OF YOU WHO WISH
TO ENGAGE AND THROW IN SOME PRESENTATIONS, WE'LL SET UP
MULTIPLE JUST TRAINING AND REVIEW SESSIONS SO THAT WE CAN
ALL GO THROUGH THE MATERIALS, PRACTICE, AND ENSURE WE'RE
ALL GIVING THE SAME MESSAGE.
SO THAT WILL PROBABLY OCCUR LATER AUGUST OR VERY FIRST WEEK
OF SEPTEMBER.
>>KEVIN BECKNER:
OKAY.
THANK YOU.
>>HERB MARLOWE:
THEN WE'LL WILL WORK WITH YOUR SCHEDULES.
COMMISSIONER HAGAN, I BELIEVE.

>>MARK SHARPE:
>>KEN HAGAN:
COMMISSIONER HAGAN.
WELL, I WANT TO TOUCH ON SOMETHING THAT
MR. MERRILL JUST ALLUDED TO.

I, FRANKLY, THINK THAT IT WOULD BE PRUDENT FOR US TO ENGAGE
SOMEONE IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO ASSIST US IN THIS PROCESS.
I FEEL THAT THERE WOULD BE VALUE IN UTILIZING SOMEONE WHO
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31
IS A TRANSPORTATION EXPERT OR SOMEONE THAT HAS A

TRANSPORTATION BACKGROUND.
I THINK THIS WOULD PROVIDE SIGNIFICANT BENEFITS.
WHEN -- DO YOU HAVE A RECOMMENDATION OR WHAT ARE YOUR
THOUGHTS, EITHER HERB OR MIKE, ON WHEN WE CAN ENGAGE
SOMEONE LIKE THAT?
>>MIKE MERRILL:
WELL, WE DIDN'T WANT TO START THAT PROCESS
UNTIL WE HAD SOME BUY-IN FROM YOU THAT THAT WAS SOMETHING
YOU FELT WAS APPROPRIATE.
I THINK AS WE DID THE LAST TIME WHEN WE SELECTED A POLLING
FIRM, WE WOULD, YOU KNOW, WANT TO GET SOME OF YOUR
FEEDBACK, AND WE WANT THE RIGHT PERSON, YOU KNOW.
AND WE DO A LOT OF THINGS WELL ON MY STAFF, BUT THIS ISN'T
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE DO.
THIS IS NOT OUR EXPERTISE.
WE HAVE GOOD COMMUNICATIONS PEOPLE, BUT THIS IS A
SPECIALTY, AND SO, YOU KNOW, MY EGO'S NOT INVESTED IN THIS
PART OF IT, BUT I THINK WE JUST NEED TO GET SOME IDEAS OF
WHO WE THINK ARE THE RIGHT PEOPLE.
IT CAN BE DONE QUICKLY.
I MEAN, WE CAN DO A CONTRACT, A PO, AND GET SOMEONE
ENGAGED, SO ...
>>KEN HAGAN:
WELL, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT IN THAT THIS
TYPE OF EXERCISE IS NOT ANY OF OUR EXPERTISE, AND I FULLY

SUPPORT GOING IN THAT DIRECTION.
I WANT TO HEAR WHAT THE OTHER COLLEAGUES HAVE AND THEIR
THOUGHTS ON IT, BUT I'D FULLY SUPPORT DOING THAT.
THE OTHER THING I WANT TO TOUCH ON BRIEFLY IS SOMETHING
For: 4602
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32
COMMISSIONER MILLER TOUCHED ON, AND I UNDERSTAND WANTING TO

PROVIDE FEEDBACK TO THIS BOARD ON WHAT YOU'RE HEARING IN
THE PUBLIC; HOWEVER, I DO NOT WANT US TO OPERATE ON ANY
SELF-IMPOSED DEADLINES OR TIMELINES THAT WOULD OR COULD
POTENTIALLY NEGATIVELY IMPACT THE INITIATIVE.
>>MIKE MERRILL:
>>KEN HAGAN:
OKAY.
SO UNDERSTAND, I WANT IT TO COME BACK AND
GIVE US AN UPDATE, BUT LET'S DON'T HAVE ANY SELF-IMPOSED

TIMELINE THAT COULD POTENTIALLY ->>HERB MARLOWE:
WE'LL BE IN DISCUSSIONS WITH YOU ABOUT
WHEN YOU FEEL IS AN APPROPRIATE TIME TO DO IT.

WE ALWAYS LIKE TO GIVE AN AGGRESSIVE SCHEDULE OUT RATHER
THAN GIVE YOU A SLOW SCHEDULE, BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY DO
THAT.
AND I'LL COME BACK, WHEN I ASK FOR DIRECTIONS, TO TALK
ABOUT THE PRIVATE-SECTOR PERSON.
I'LL COME BACK TO IT.
>>KEN HAGAN:
THANK YOU.
>>HERB MARLOWE:
>>RICK LOTT:
MAYOR LOTT.
THANK YOU.
JUST TO ADD ON A LITTLE BIT ON WHAT -- A COUPLE COMMENTS

THAT COMMISSIONER BECKNER MENTIONED A WHILE AGO, IS THAT -HE WAS TALKING ABOUT MEASURING.
THIS IS JUST A QUICK NOTE.
THE MPO, IN THEIR INVISION 2040 PROGRAM, WHEN THEY'VE GONE
OUT TO THE PUBLIC, THEY'VE USED A TEXTING MODEL WHERE
EVERYONE IS ABLE TO TEXT THE RESPONSE DURING THE MEETING,
AND AT THE END OF THE MEETING, THEY'RE ABLE TO SHARE THE
For: 4602
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33
RESULTS, AND IT'S QUITE FASCINATING AND INCLUDES EVERYONE,

SO -- I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S A GOOD MEASUREMENT OR NOT, BUT
IF YOU HAVEN'T PARTICIPATED IN IT, JUST THE AUDIENCE
INVOLVEMENT IN THAT I THINK'S BEEN VERY, VERY KEY WITH WHAT
THE MPO HAS DONE WITH IT, AND I APPLAUD THEM FOR THAT, SO
IT'S SOMETHING YOU MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER.
>>HERB MARLOWE:
>>RICK LOTT:
YES, SIR.
THE -- I THINK IT'S VERY DANGEROUS WHEN WE GO
OUT TO THE PUBLIC AND HAVE LINES ON A MAP, OKAY, AND SO I

HOPE WHAT I'M HEARING FROM ALL THE COMMISSIONERS THAT I'VE
HEARD FROM SO FAR TODAY IS THAT IN THE PRESENTATIONS WE'RE
GOING TO, WE'RE NOT GOING OUT WITH LINES ON A MAP BECAUSE
AS SOON AS YOU PUT A LINE ON A MAP, THAT'S -- WHY IS THAT
HAPPENING AND NOT THIS HAPPENING, OKAY, BEFORE THEY'VE HAD
A CHANCE TO EXPRESS THEIR DESIRES, THEIR CONCERNS, THEIR
FEELINGS, THEIR EMOTIONS AND SO FORTH, SO, YOU KNOW, I HEAR
THAT WE'RE GOING OUT AND WE'RE LISTENING AND SO FORTH, BUT
I'M ALREADY SEEING THINGS, YOU KNOW, POP UP THAT ARE LINES
ON MAPS AND PROJECTS THAT ARE QUOTED, AND I KNOW AT SOME
POINT WE HAVE TO HAVE THAT, BUT I THINK THAT -- I THINK
IT'S VERY DANGEROUS TO GO OUT TO MEETINGS WHEN -- I CAN
TELL YOU I THINK ALL OF US HAVE A -- WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS
THESE LINES THAT WE SEE, YOU KNOW, ARE THESE THE RIGHT
ONES, DOES IT FIT IN OUR BUDGETS AND SO FORTH.
TO ADD ON TO THAT, I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE -- BEFORE
THESE LINES ON THE MAPS ARE CREATED, THERE HAS TO BE SOME
MORE COORDINATING GOING ON BETWEEN THE CITIES AND THE
COUNTY, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THERE ARE ROADS THAT ARE
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34
OBVIOUSLY INTERTWINED BETWEEN ALL OF US, AND -- AND WHO'S

PAYING WHAT, IS THE CITY PAYING FOR THIS PORTION, THE
COUNTY PAYING FOR THIS PORTION; IF IT'S IMPORTANT TO THE
CITY, IS IT IMPORTANT TO THE COUNTY, OKAY, SO I THINK THAT
IF WE'RE GOING TO START PUTTING THOSE LINES ON THE MAP -- I
KNOW IN OUR CASE, WE'D LIKE TO HAVE SOME MORE -- AND WE'VE
HAD LOTS OF MEETINGS, BUT JUST SOME MEETINGS JUST FOCUSED
ON PROJECTS THAT ARE INNERWORKING PROJECTS BETWEEN EACH
OTHER, YOU KNOW.
AND I THINK ONE OF THE BIGGEST THINGS I'M GLAD TO SEE IN
THIS PLAN IS THE RESURFACING.
I THINK ALL OF US KNOW THAT ONE OF OUR BIGGEST ASSETS WE
HAVE IN OUR -- IN ANY CITY IS YOUR ROAD, YOUR
INFRASTRUCTURE, AND SO FORTH, AND I THINK ALL OF US -- NONE
OF US ARE EARNING AN "A" IN TAKING CARE OF THIS ASSET, I
THINK WE ARE ALL GETTING A "D" OR "F" IN THAT REGARD, OKAY.
I KNOW FOUR OR FIVE YEARS AGO WE WERE LOOKING AT IT, AND
OUR BUDGET HAD US RESURFACING OUR ROADS IN PLANT CITY ON A
75- TO 85-YEAR RANGE, WHEN OUR ROADS ARE SUPPOSED TO LAST
ABOUT 25 YEARS.
I CALL THAT AN "F," OKAY.
WE NOW HAVE A BUDGET TO DO IT EVERY 25 YEARS, BUT WE'RE
STILL 100 YEARS BEHIND, SO BY THE TIME WE CATCH UP, WE'RE
IN THE SAME HOLE.
SO UNLESS WE HAVE SOME MECHANISM TO CATCH UP THAT BACKLOG,
WE NEVER WILL BE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, TAKE CARE OF ONE OF THE
MOST VALUABLE ASSETS IN OUR CITY, SO I'M VERY GLAD TO SEE
THAT PIECE ON THERE, AND THAT'S NOT A LINE ON THE ROAD,
For: 4602
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35
THAT'S TAKING CARE OF THE ASSETS WE HAVE, SO I'M VERY HAPPY

WITH THAT.
AND THAT'S IT.
THANK YOU.
>>MARK SHARPE:
COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM, THEN THE MAYOR,
AND THEN COMMISSIONER MURMAN.

>>SANDRA MURMAN:
>>MARK SHARPE:
[INAUDIBLE]
OKAY.
COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM.
>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:
THAT WAS ONE OF THE FALLACIES WE HAD
LAST TIME, BUT I SPOKE ABOUT IT TOO, WAS THE LINES ON THE
ROAD, AND I SEE, AS I'VE READ THROUGH THIS AECOM REPORT,
THAT -- I THINK IT WAS MR. MERRILL WHO SAID RATHER THAN
JUST SAY WE HAVE TRAFFIC JAMS, LET'S OUTLINE WHAT THOSE
PROBLEMS ARE SO AS THE PUBLIC IS ENGAGED AND ENGAGING
THEMSELVES AS WELL, THEY CAN LOOK AT THIS REPORT AND SAY,
THIS GIVES US A DIRECTION AND OUTLINE, AND THAT, AS I
UNDERSTAND, IS WHAT THE INTENT OF THIS AECOM REPORT IS; AM
I CORRECT?
>>HERB MARLOWE:
YES, SIR.
IT'S JUST AN ASSESSMENT OF WHERE THE COUNTY IS RIGHT NOW.

>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:
OKAY.
TO BETTER ASSIST THE PUBLIC, BUT IT WAS NOT A DIRECTION OR

OUTLINE FOR THIS BOARD?
>>HERB MARLOWE:
NO.
NO, SIR, NOT AT ALL ->>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:

>>HERB MARLOWE:
For: 4602
OKAY.
-- JUST AN ASSESSMENT.
Page 963 of 1954


36
>>MARK SHARPE:
>>BOB BUCKHORN:
MAYOR BUCKHORN.
A COUPLE THINGS.
LIKE COMMISSIONER MURMAN SAID, I WANT TO COMPLIMENT

MR. MERRILL.
YOU HAVE PUT YOUR HEART AND SOUL INTO THIS FOR THE LAST 18
MONTHS, AND WE WOULDN'T BE WHERE WE ARE HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR
YOUR LEADERSHIP, AND YOU ARE TO BE COMMENDED.
I WHOLEHEARTEDLY SUPPORT MOVING FORWARD.
I WILL SAY THAT AS A PREDICATE.
I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE DO THIS.
I THINK WE HAVE TAKEN THE TIME AS A BODY FOR THE FIRST TIME
IN DECADES TO REALLY LAY OUT WHAT THE SCENARIO IS AND WHAT
THE CHALLENGES ARE AND THE MAGNITUDE OF THE CHALLENGES, AND
I THINK WE ALL RECOGNIZE THAT SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE.
EXPLAIN TO ME, IF YOU WILL, THE NEXT COUPLE MONTHS.
YOU WILL EMBARK ON A PROCESS BY WHICH YOU WILL GO OUT AND
TALK TO THE COMMUNITY, AND I AGREE WITH MANY OF THE
SENTIMENTS OFFERED HERE TODAY, THAT IT'S GOING TO TAKE A
DIFFERENT SKILL SET IN ORDER TO DO THAT.
>>HERB MARLOWE:
MM-HMM.
>>BOB BUCKHORN:
I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT THIS IN THE
CONTEXT OF HOW THAT MESSAGE IS DEVELOPED, HOW IT'S

EXECUTED.
IT IS NOT SOMETHING THE GOVERNMENT DOES WELL, AND WE NEED
TO FIND PEOPLE WHO DO AND WE NEED TO PAY THEM WHAT IT TAKES
TO DO THIS AND DO IT EFFICIENTLY.
SO WE'RE GOING TO SPEND THE NEXT COUPLE MONTHS OUT TALKING
TO THE VARIOUS SEGMENTS OF THIS COMMUNITY ABOUT THE SIZE OF
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37
THE PROBLEM, WHAT THE PROBLEM IS, WHAT THE POTENTIAL

SOLUTIONS ARE, BUT ULTIMATELY, THERE'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE
A BOAT -- VOTE OF MY COLLEAGUES FROM THE COUNTY AS TO
WHETHER OR NOT THIS GOES ON THE BALLOT BECAUSE THERE IS NO
GAME TO PLAY IF THERE IS NO ELECTION.
AT WHAT POINT DOES THAT HAPPEN, BECAUSE FOR THE REST OF US,
WE CAN'T GET ENGAGED -- WE'RE SUITED UP, WE'VE BEEN
TRAINING, WE'RE READY TO GO, WE WANT TO HIT SOMEBODY -[LAUGHTER]
-- BUT WE'VE GOTTA HAVE A GAME.
>>SANDRA MURMAN:
>>BOB BUCKHORN:
[INAUDIBLE] LAST FRIDAY.

WE'VE GOTTA HAVE A GAME.
I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW ANY OTHER WAY TO PLAY BUT FULL

THROTTLE.
>> [INAUDIBLE]
>>BOB BUCKHORN:
YEAH.
I MEAN, PUT ME IN, COACH.

[LAUGHTER]
MR. MERRILL, WHEN IS -- WHEN IS THE ->>HERB MARLOWE:
WE'RE GOING TO PUT ON THE PADS.
>>BOB BUCKHORN:
WHATEVER SPORTS ANALOGY WE'RE GOING TO
USE.
IS IT ANTICIPATED AT THE END OF THIS PERIOD IN OCTOBER THAT
THE BOARD WOULD MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IT
GOES ON THE BALLOT IN TWO YEARS AND THEN WE START, YOU
KNOW,
THE -- THE DISCUSSION?
>>MIKE MERRILL:
For: 4602
THAT WASN'T WHAT I WAS INTENDING, BUT,
Page 965 of 1954


38
AGAIN, TAKING THE LEAD FROM YOUR COMMENT, THERE'S SOME

THINGS THAT I DON'T DO WELL AND THAT WE DON'T DO WELL, AND
ONE OF THEM IS DECIDING WHEN IT'S TIME TO HAVE A
REFERENDUM.
AND SO THAT'S REALLY, YOU KNOW, PARTLY WHAT WE HEAR FROM
THE PUBLIC, BUT LARGELY, YOU KNOW, IT REALLY HAS TO COME
FROM YOU-ALL THE TIMING AND THE DIRECTION FOR THAT.
I MEAN, WE CAN PROVIDE THE DATA, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH REVENUE
GETS PRODUCED AND ALL THAT GOOD STUFF, AND CHIP AND DAVID
AND OTHERS CAN TELL US THE LEGAL PARAMETERS AND SO FORTH,
BUT I DID NOT COME HERE WITH A PREDETERMINED DATE, REALLY,
FRANKLY, LOOKING TO YOUR GUIDANCE, AND UNTIL WE COME BACK
IN OCTOBER, I'M NOT SURE WE ALL KNOW REALLY WHAT THAT LOOKS
LIKE AND DIDN'T EVEN REALLY WANT TO PUT THAT ON THE TABLE
TODAY.
>>BOB BUCKHORN:
WELL, I MEAN, I CAN TELL YOU SOONER IS
BETTER THAN LATER.

THE MECHANICS OF PUTTING ON AN EFFORT OF THIS MAGNITUDE IS
PRETTY EXTENSIVE, AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE A HEALTHY
INFRASTRUCTURE AROUND THIS EFFORT TO MAKE IT SUCCESSFUL,
AND I THINK TO MAYOR LOTT'S QUESTION, ONE OF THE REASONS IT
DIDN'T SUCCEED BEFORE IS BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF
SPECIFICITY.
>>MIKE MERRILL:
MM-HMM.
>>BOB BUCKHORN:
AND I CAN RECALL THE JACKSONVILLE EFFORT
FOR -- YOU KNOW, SEVEN, EIGHT YEARS AGO, A BETTER

JACKSONVILLE PROGRAM, WHERE PEOPLE IN THE COMMUNITY KNEW
LITERALLY DOWN TO THEIR STREET WHAT THE BENEFIT WAS TO THEM
For: 4602
Page 966 of 1954


39
DIRECTLY BECAUSE THE PLAN WAS THAT SPECIFIC IN TERMS OF

WHERE THE IMPROVEMENTS ARE GOING TO BE MADE, AND OBVIOUSLY,
SOME PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO LIKE THOSE CHOICES, BUT I THINK
WHEN VOTERS MAKE A DECISION, WHEN THE PEOPLE THAT ELECT US
GO IN THAT POLLING BOOTH, THEY'RE GOING TO VOTE THEIR SELFINTERESTS, AND THEY'RE GOING TO WANT TO KNOW THAT THE 35
BUCKS THEY'RE GOING TO PAY, OR WHATEVER THAT NUMBER IS, IS
GOING TO HAVE A BENEFIT ON THEIR QUALITY OF LIFE, AND I
THINK THAT SPECIFICITY NEEDS TO BE THERE WHEN THEY GO INTO
THAT BALLOT BOX SO THAT SOMEBODY IN PLANT CITY IS GOING TO
KNOW THAT THIS INTERSECTION'S GOING TO GET FIXED, AND TO
THEM THAT DECISION TO SPEND THAT EXTRA 35 BUCKS IS A DIRECT
IMPACT ON THEIR QUALITY OF LIFE.
SO AFTER WE GET THROUGH WITH THIS DISCUSSION, WE'VE GOTTA
BE AS SPECIFIC AS WE POSSIBLY CAN BECAUSE WHEN WE GO TO THE
VOTERS AND ASK THEM TO VOTE FOR THIS, THEY'RE GOING TO WANT
TO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE GETTING.
THEY DIDN'T KNOW IN 2010, AND THEY NEED TO KNOW IN 2016.
>>MIKE MERRILL:
RIGHT.
NO, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE HEARD AT THE SOUTHSHORE

ROUNDTABLE, AND SO THEY DID WANT TO KNOW ABOUT PROJECTS
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW -- AND I AM PARAPHRASING, BUT THEY SAID,
YOU KNOW, WE REALLY DON'T MIND RAIL IN THE COUNTY, BUT WE
NEED SOMETHING HERE, AND HERE'S WHAT WE THINK WE NEED, AND
WE'RE GOING TO HEAR THAT FROM EVERYONE.
AND SO WITH, YOU KNOW -- I HEAR, MAYOR LOTT, YOU KNOW, WHAT
YOU'RE SAYING.
I THINK WHAT WE -- WE WEREN'T TRYING TO DRAW DEFINITIVE
For: 4602
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40
LINES ON ANY MAPS, BUT WE HAD TO HAVE A STARTING PLACE,

AND -- AND MAYOR BUCKHORN'S RIGHT, AT SOME POINT SOME OR
ALL OF THOSE PROJECTS WE'VE IDENTIFIED MAY END UP IN THE
SPECIFIC PLAN, AND THERE WILL PROBABLY BE MORE ADDED, BUT I
THINK WE'RE STARTING FROM A GOOD PLACE WITHOUT LOCKING IN.
SO THIS IS THE CONVERSATION I KEEP HAVING WITH PEOPLE, THEY
KEEP SAYING, WELL, YOU HAVE A PLAN, YOU HAVE A PLAN.
THERE IS NO TRANSPORTATION PLAN.
THERE ARE OPTIONS, THERE ARE IDEAS.
THERE'S NO GOOD WAY -- EASY WAY TO START THIS CONVERSATION.
SOMEONE HAD TO START IT.
>>MARK SHARPE:
>>MIKE MERRILL:
WE DID.
I'LL TAKE THE HIT FOR IT, BUT, YOU KNOW,
ASKING PEOPLE JUST ARBITRARILY DO THEY LIKE THIS OR THAT

WITHOUT A GROUNDING IN SOME REALITY, IT'S NOT GOING TO GIVE
YOU WHAT YOU NEED, IT'S NOT GOING TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY
NEED, SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION.
>>MARK SHARPE:
>>VICTOR CRIST:
COMMISSIONER CRIST.
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN.
I AGREE WITH THE MAYOR.

YOU KNOW, VOTERS HAD DIFFICULTY LAST TIME BECAUSE OF THE
LACK OF SPECIFICITY IN THE PLAN, AND -- BUT I WANT TO ASK
THIS QUESTION.
I KNOW YOU MENTIONED EARLIER THAT YOUR MEASUREMENTS WERE
GOING TO BE QUANTITATIVE AND NOT SCIENTIFIC.
AT WHAT POINT ARE WE GOING TO GET SCIENTIFIC, AND ARE WE
GOING TO BE MEASURING VOTER ATTITUDE?
I KNOW THAT JIM DAVIS AND I HAD THIS DISCUSSION FOUR YEARS
For: 4602
Page 968 of 1954


41
AGO.
I DID MY OWN POLLING, HE DID HIS, AND THERE WERE VAST
DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE TWO.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, I WAS ONE POINT OFF AND HE WAS MANY
POINTS OFF.
ARE WE GOING TO ASK THE QUESTION OF THE VOTERS, ONE, WOULD
THEY BE WILLING TO VOTE FOR A TAX FOR ROAD IMPROVEMENTS;
TWO, WOULD THEY BE WILLING TO VOTE FOR A TAX FOR MORE BUSES
AND BUS ROUTES; THREE, WOULD THEY BE WILLING TO VOTE FOR A
TAX FOR LIGHT RAIL; AND FOUR, WOULD THEY BE WILLING TO VOTE
FOR A TAX FOR COMMUTER RAIL?
AT WHAT POINT ARE WE GOING TO MEASURE THE VOTERS' ATTITUDE
TOWARDS HOW WE'RE GOING TO FUND IT?
>>MIKE MERRILL:
THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD LOOK TO
WHOMEVER WE HIRE TO TELL US WHEN THE RIGHT TIME IS AND TO

HELP US DESIGN IT.
MY -- MY SENSE IS THAT WE NEED TO HAVE THE CONVERSATION
ABOUT NEEDS, AND THAT WILL THEN HELP CLARIFY AND
CRYSTALLIZE THE KINDS OF QUESTIONS YOU'RE ASKING.
IT'S ALMOST LIKE YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT RENOVATIONS YOU NEED
TO DO TO YOUR HOUSE FIRST AND THEN TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU CAN
AND CAN'T DO, WHAT YOU DON'T WANT TO DO, AND THEN WHAT IT'S
GOING TO COST AND HOW YOU'RE GOING TO PAY FOR IT.
SO -- BUT I THINK THAT'S TRULY SOMETHING WE'RE GOING TO
RELY ON THE EXPERTS WE HIRE TO TELL US THE TIMING AND HELP
US DESIGN THE QUESTIONS WITH -- WITH YOUR HELP.
>>VICTOR CRIST:
WELL, THERE'S A LAST QUESTION THAT'S GOING
TO HAVE TO BE ASKED.
For: 4602
Page 969 of 1954


42
ONCE, AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE'VE FIGURED OUT THE EXACTS
OF WHERE WE'RE GOING TO GET THE MONEY TO PAY FOR THE PLAN
AND WHAT THE PLAN'S GOING TO COST, WOULD THEY BE WILLING TO
VOTE FOR A PLAN THAT HAS "X" NUMBER OF DOLLARS' WORTH OF
SHORTFALLS IN IT ->>MIKE MERRILL:
MM-HMM.
>>VICTOR CRIST:
-- BECAUSE THAT'S A SIGNIFICANT QUESTION
THAT NEEDS TO BE ASKED.

YOU KNOW, I ->>MIKE MERRILL:
WELL --
>>VICTOR CRIST:
I CAN'T SPEAK FOR ANYBODY ELSE'S DISTRICT.
EVERYONE -- YOUR NEIGHBORHOODS ARE ALL UNIQUE, BUT ON THE

NORTH END OF THE COUNTY, WHERE THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT
NEGATIVE VOTE THE LAST TIME AROUND, THE FEEDBACK THAT I GOT
WAS MORE THAN JUST WHAT'S IN IT FOR ME, IT'S WHAT'S IT
GOING TO COST, HOW WE'RE GOING TO PAY FOR IT, AND, YOU
KNOW, THOSE ARE QUESTIONS THAT ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE
ANSWERED.
>>MIKE MERRILL:
AND I THINK THAT'S WHY ONCE PEOPLE FEEL
COMFORTABLE WITH A PLAN, WE CAN START TALKING ABOUT

REVENUES, BECAUSE DEPENDING ON WHAT TYPE OF PROJECTS, YOU
MAY HAVE MORE OR LESS FEDERAL INVESTMENT, FEDERAL GRANT
MONEY; YOU MAY HAVE MORE OR LESS PRIVATE PAYMENTS IN THE
FORM OF USER FEES, LIKE PREMIUM TOLLS AND THAT KIND OF
THING, SO IT'S VERY ELASTIC, BUT YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT -WHAT IS IT THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO BE BUILDING BEFORE
WE CAN GET TO REVENUES, I THINK.
>>VICTOR CRIST:
For: 4602
WHAT REALLY CONCERNS ME HERE IS, YOU KNOW,
Page 970 of 1954


43
WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ADVANCE FORWARD WITH NECESSARY

IMPROVEMENTS FOR TRANSPORTATION, BUT TIMING IS CRUCIAL.
WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SIT BACK AND WATCH WHAT PINELLAS
COUNTY DOES AND, IF IT SUCCEEDS, RIDE ON THEIR COATTAILS;
IF IT FAILS, MAKE THE NECESSARY CHANGES SO THAT IN 2018 WE
DON'T FAIL, WE WIN.
BUT IF WE LAUNCH THIS IN 2016 AND WE FAIL, IT'S GOING TO BE
TEN YEARS BEFORE WE CAN TRY IT AGAIN, AND THAT MAKES ME
VERY NERVOUS.
I'M NOT SURE WE HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO SELL THIS, AND I'M NOT
SURE WE HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO REALLY DO THE LEGWORK THAT
NEEDS TO BE DONE TO GENERATE THE VOTER BUY-IN TO GET THIS
PASSED, AND I'M AFRAID THAT IN OUR HASTE, WE'RE GOING TO
PUT OURSELVES BACK TEN YEARS.
>>MARK SHARPE:
>>KEN HAGAN:
COMMISSIONER HAGAN.
THANK YOU.
A COUPLE COMMENTS.
NUMBER ONE, I'LL ECHO MAYOR BUCKHORN'S REMARKS IN THAT I
TOO BELIEVE SOONER IS BETTER TO MOVE FORWARD; HOWEVER,
THERE ARE CHALLENGES, PARTICULARLY LEGAL ISSUES, THAT
REQUIRE US TO BE METHODICAL IN OUR PLANNING, SUCH AS YOU'RE
LIMITED IN THE SPECIFIC WORDING AND NUMBER OF WORDS THAT
CAN BE ON A -- ON THE ACTUAL REFERENDUM.
WE ACTUALLY APPROVED AN ORDINANCE TO DO THAT, AND WHILE
APPROVING THE ORDINANCE, ARE WE -- DOES THAT REQUIRE THE
INDIVIDUAL PROJECTS TO BE LISTED?
DOES THE ORDINANCE REQUIRE THE ELECTION DATE?
I THINK WE'RE STILL UNCLEAR ON WHEN -- COMMISSIONER CRIST
For: 4602
Page 971 of 1954


44
IS SAYING MAYBE EVEN '18.

I MEAN, IS IT '15, '16?
AND AS WELL AS THE GOVERNANCE, WE'RE STILL UNCLEAR ON THAT.
SO IN A PERFECT WORLD, SOONER IS BETTER, BUT I THINK THERE
ARE SOME SPECIFIC AND CRITICAL ISSUES, PARTICULARLY LEGAL
ONES, THAT REQUIRE US TO BE METHODICAL AND ENSURE THAT WE
GET IT RIGHT.
I THINK A BIG DIFFERENCE HERE, UNLIKE IN 2010, IS THAT
THERE WAS A BIG QUESTION BACK THEN IF THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS WOULD EVEN PLACE A REFERENDUM ON THE BALLOT.
IF YOU REMEMBER, WE HAD THE LARGEST PUBLIC HEARING THAT
I'VE EVER BEEN INVOLVED IN IN MY 12 YEARS OUT AT ALL
PEOPLE'S CENTER, PACKED HOUSE.
THIS TIME, I THINK FOR THE MOST PART, MOST BELIEVE THAT
THERE WILL BE A REFERENDUM.
MAY BE UNCLEAR ON THE DATE.
IT'S UNLIKELY THAT IT WILL BE A UNANIMOUS VOTE BY THE
COUNTY COMMISSION, BUT I DO NOT KNOW ANYONE THAT DOES NOT
BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE FOUR VOTES ON THE COUNTY COMMISSION
TO PLACE THIS REFERENDUM ON THE BALLOT.
>> [INAUDIBLE]
>>MARK SHARPE:
I THINK IT'S AN EXCELLENT START, HAVING
LIVED THROUGH THE 2010 EFFORT, AND I THOUGHT IT WAS AN

EXCEPTIONAL EXPERIENCE.
IT WAS -- WE MADE A LOT OF MISTAKES.
I ADMIT AS MANY OF THEM -- I'LL TAKE -- I'LL CARRY IT ON MY
BACK, THE MISTAKES THAT WERE MADE, THINGS THAT WE DIDN'T DO
RIGHT, THE COMMUNICATION THAT DIDN'T OCCUR OR COULD HAVE
For: 4602
Page 972 of 1954


45
OCCURRED BETTER, BUT, YOU KNOW, GOOD GRIEF, YOU KNOW, LIFE
IS ABOUT MAKING AN EFFORT AND NOT BEING AFRAID TO FAIL AND
KNOWING FULL WELL THAT YOU MIGHT, BUT THEN YOU PICK
YOURSELF BACK UP AND YOU MOVE BECAUSE OUR COMPETITORS
AREN'T SITTING STILL, AND THOSE THAT ARE CONSISTENTLY
RANKING AHEAD OF
US -- AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE SAN FRANCISCOS AND THE
CHICAGOS BUT TALKING ABOUT COMMUNITIES WHICH WE USED TO
MEASURE OURSELVES AGAINST AND ARE CONSISTENTLY TOP 20.
OUR RANKINGS -- AND I WILL GIVE THE MAYOR GREAT CREDIT
BECAUSE WE WENT FROM 138th IN THE MILLIKEN RANKINGS FOR
2012 TO 93rd FOR BEST-PERFORMING CITIES, BUT DAGGONE IT,
WE'RE A TOP 20 BEST-PERFORMING COMMUNITY, AND THERE'S A
RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN TRANSPORTATION AND ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT, AND WE SPENT 18 MONTHS ANALYZING OUR ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT AREAS AND TRYING TO DETERMINE WHERE THEY ARE
AND HOW WE MIGHT
POSSIBLY -- WE DIDN'T EVEN GET INTO THE MODE OF CONNECTING
THEM.
WHAT WE AGREED WAS THERE IS A LINE BETWEEN THE ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT AREAS AND IT WOULD BEHOOVE US TO CONNECT THEM.
WE'VE SPENT 21 YEARS -- THE AECOM REPORT, WHICH I THINK
IS -- THERE'S POINTS THAT, YOU KNOW, I WOULD DISAGREE WITH,
BUT THERE ARE OTHER POINTS WHERE I WOULD AGREE WITH THEM,
AND I CREDIT THE GENTLEMAN FOR HIS HARD WORK IN PUTTING THE
REPORT TOGETHER, BUT IT GOES BACK AND IT LOOKS AT 21 YEARS
OF STUDIES, A TOTAL OF NINE STUDIES THAT WE'VE ENGAGED IN
OVER A 21-YEAR PERIOD, SO I DON'T THINK WE'VE RUSHED, I
For: 4602
Page 973 of 1954


46
THINK WE'VE BEEN A LITTLE SLOW -[LAUGHTER]

-- IN ACTING -- WE COULD WANDER FOR 40 YEARS, THERE ARE
OTHERS WHO'VE DONE THAT, AND THEY STILL GET TO WHERE THEY
KNOW THEY'VE GOT TO GO, BUT WE KNOW FULL WELL -- AND I
THINK THE MAYOR UNDERSTANDS THIS -- WHERE, ULTIMATELY, WE
NEED TO GO.
HART JUST SET ANOTHER RECORD, JULY, AND I -- OUR CHAIRMAN
HERE OF THE HART IS HERE AND HE'S DONE A GREAT JOB,
MR. SUAREZ.
A TOTAL OF 12 -- 1,235,600 TRIPS WERE TAKEN LAST MONTH, A
RECORD FOR HART, BUT HART'S GOING TO RUN OUT OF MONEY, AND
THEY MAY WELL RUN OUT OF MONEY WHILE WE TALK AND DECIDE ON
WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO.
THEY COULD BE IN THE RED BY 2017, 2018.
I KNOW THAT MS. EAGAN'S GOING TO DO HER BEST TO KEEP US OUT
OF THE RED, AND SHE'S DONE A PHENOMENAL JOB WITH OUR
BUDGET, BUT WHILE OUR COMPETITORS ARE BUILDING AND WE ARE
HAVING THIS CONVERSATION, I THINK AT SOME POINT WE'RE GOING
TO HAVE TO ACT, AND I WOULD AGREE WITH OUR MAYOR, WE NEED
TO SUIT 'EM UP AND GET 'EM OUT THERE AND GET STARTED.
SO I -- I -- BUT I -- BUT I WILL ALSO SAY THAT THERE -THIS IS A GREAT -- I'VE REALLY ENJOYED SERVING WITH THIS
BOARD, AND EACH ONE OF YOU ARE VERY THOUGHTFUL, SMART.
COMMISSIONER HAGAN, ONE OF THE MOST THOROUGH INDIVIDUALS
THAT I'VE WORKED WITH, HE'S NOT GOING TO LET US GET OUT
AHEAD OF OURSELVES WITHOUT BEING THOROUGHLY PREPARED, AND I
ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOU, MR. HAGAN, THAT WHAT WE NEED TO
For: 4602
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47
DO IS MAKE SURE THAT WHEN WE DO GO FORWARD THAT WE'RE READY

AND THAT WE'VE DONE OUR HOMEWORK, SO I WANT TO THANK YOU,
BUT I WANT TO START BUILDING.
>>HERB MARLOWE:
WE'VE HEARD THE POINTS YOU'D LIKE TO MAKE
SURE WE CONSIDER, AND WE CERTAINLY WILL DO THAT AS WE BEGIN

THE CONVERSATION WITH THE PUBLIC, BUT WE'LL CONTINUE THE
IN-DEPTH CONVERSATION WITH YOU ABOUT THIS.
AS WE COMPLETE PHASE I, THE ISSUES YOU'VE RAISED TODAY WILL
START TO BE ADDRESSED IN PHASE II.
WE HEAR YOU, COMMISSIONER HAGAN.
WE WON'T PUT AN ARTIFICIAL DEADLINE.
WE WON'T DELAY EITHER.
WE'LL MOVE FORWARD.
I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS OF YOU.
MAY WE MOVE FORWARD?
NODS WILL BE FINE.
>>SANDRA MURMAN:
>>BOB BUCKHORN:
>>MARK SHARPE:
[INAUDIBLE] MAKE A MOTION.

SECOND.
WE HAVE A MOTION WHICH WAS MADE BY
COMMISSIONER MURMAN.
IT WAS SECONDED BY OUR MAYOR, MAYOR BUCKHORN.
WOULD YOU PLEASE STATE THE MOTION.
WOULD YOU PUT THE MIKE ON SO WE CAN ->>SANDRA MURMAN:
THAT WE'RE GOING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH
PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT; CORRECT?

>>HERB MARLOWE:
>>MARK SHARPE:
YES, MA'AM.
OKAY.
A MOTION PUT FORWARD TO MOVE FORWARD ON OUR PUBLIC
For: 4602
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48
ENGAGEMENT, AGAIN, MADE BY COMMISSIONER MURMAN, SECONDED BY

MAYOR BUCKHORN.
THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
[CHORUS OF AYES]
ANY OPPOSED?
MOTION PASSES.
>>HERB MARLOWE:
>>KEN HAGAN:
OKAY.
I'D LIKE TO OFFER UP A MOTION OR DIRECTION,
WHATEVER HERB OR MIKE THINKS, THAT WE GIVE YOU THE

AUTHORITY TO MOVE FORWARD WITH ENGAGING SOMEONE IN THE
PRIVATE SECTOR WITH TRANSPORTATION EXPERIENCE TO ASSIST US
IN THIS INITIATIVE.
>>BOB BUCKHORN:
>>MARK SHARPE:
[INAUDIBLE]
OKAY.
WE HAVE A MOTION BY COMMISSIONER HAGAN TO MOVE FORWARD

AND -- AGAIN, THAT'S TO HIRE SOMEONE FROM THE PRIVATE ->>KEN HAGAN:
PRIVATE SECTOR WITH TRANSPORTATION EXPERIENCE
TO HELP TO ENGAGE US IN THIS INITIATIVE.

>>MARK SHARPE:
OKAY.
AND THAT WAS SECONDED BY MAYOR BUCKHORN.

AND WE HAVE SOME COMMENT.
COMMISSIONER BECKNER.
>>KEVIN BECKNER:
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.
AND, OBVIOUSLY, IT WOULD BE IDEAL IF THE PERSON -- IF THE

COMPANY THAT'S ENGAGED KNOWS THIS COMMUNITY, BUT I THINK
IT'S ALSO EVEN MORE IMPORTANT THAT WE REACH OUT TO FIRMS
THAT MAY HAVE ASSISTED IN SUCCESSFUL REFERENDUMS ACROSS THE
COUNTRY, SO LET'S GET SOMEBODY THAT KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE
By eadler at 12:43 pm, Mar 03, 2016
For: 4602
Page 976 of 1954


49
DOING, AND LIKE I SAID, IF THEY EXIST IN THIS COMMUNITY,

GREAT; IF THEY DON'T, THEN LET'S MAKE SURE WE JUST HAVE THE
BEST AT THE TABLE.
>>MARK SHARPE:
COMMISSIONER HIGGINBOTHAM, SIR.
>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:
AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WHEN
YOU'RE ENGAGING THIS FIRM THAT IT'S NOT A PUBLIC RELATIONS

FIRM, BUT IT'S SOMEONE THAT HAS THAT TRANSPORTATION
BACKGROUND.
>>SANDRA MURMAN:
>>MARK SHARPE:
[INAUDIBLE]
I CAN ASSURE YOU THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE
WHO ARE ALREADY SAYING -- AND THEY'RE TRANSPORTATION

PEOPLE.
THEY'RE READY TO GO TO WORK.
ANYONE ELSE?
ANY OTHER COMMENTS?
OKAY.
DID WE TAKE THE VOTE?
WE DID NOT TAKE THE VOTE.
THOSE IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION MADE BY COMMISSIONER HAGAN,
SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER BUCKHORN -- MAYOR BUCKHORN SAY
AYE.
[CHORUS OF AYES]
ANY OPPOSED?
MOTION PASSES.
>>HERB MARLOWE:
SUITED UP, MAYOR.
TWO ROLES NOW.

>>BOB BUCKHORN:
>>MARK SHARPE:
For: 4602
I'M READY.
LOVE TO HAVE HIM OVER HERE.
Page 977 of 1954


50
[LAUGHTER]
>>HERB MARLOWE:
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, A GREAT 16 MONTHS OF
WORK.
THANK EACH OF YOU FOR YOUR CONTINUED PARTICIPATION AND
CONTRIBUTION TO THIS.
LOOK FORWARD TO THE NEXT PERIOD OF WORK FOR HOWEVER LONG IT
MAY BE.
>>MARK SHARPE:
CAN I JUST SAY ONE MORE TIME, THOUGH, FOR
THE RECORD, MR. MERRILL, YOU GET A LOT OF PRAISE AND

SOMETIMES YOU GET CRITICISM, BUT I WANT TO SAY THAT I
HAVE -- YOU'RE ONE OF THE FINEST ADMINISTRATORS THAT I'VE
WORKED WITH, AND I WANT TO JUST THANK YOU FOR WHAT YOU AND
YOUR STAFF HAVE DONE.
IRRESPECTIVE OF WHERE WE GO AND ULTIMATELY WHAT WE PUT
FORWARD, YOU'VE LAID IT OUT THERE, AND IT'S DEEPLY
APPRECIATED.
>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:
YEAH.
I WANT TO -- I JUST WANT TO CHIME IN ON THAT TOO.

I WAS LOOKING FOR YOU, MIKE.
>>MIKE MERRILL:
THANK YOU.
>>AL HIGGINBOTHAM:
AND I KNOW WHEN -- POST-REFERENDUM I
SAID THIS HAS GOTTA BE COMMUNITY DRIVEN AND IT'S GOTTA HAVE
INPUT WITH EVERYONE, AND I'M JUST GRATEFUL FOR THE EFFORTS,
AND LET'S MOVE TO THE NEXT STEP AND GET THE PUBLIC'S INPUT
AND SEE WHERE THEY STAND AND FEEL ON THIS.
>>MIKE MERRILL:
I APPRECIATE THAT, AND, OBVIOUSLY, THERE'S
JUST BEEN A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE WHO'VE DEVOTED A LOT OF

THEIR TIME AWAY FROM THEIR FAMILIES.
For: 4602
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51
WE EVEN HAD A GUY WHOSE WIFE WAS PREGNANT, AND SO WE JOKED

AROUND THAT SHE COULDN'T HAVE THE BABY UNTIL WE GOT TO
TODAY.
>>BOB BUCKHORN:
THAT'S ONE MORE VOTE, MIKE.
COME ON.
[LAUGHTER]
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
>>MIKE MERRILL:
SEE, WE DON'T DO THIS VERY WELL.
>>BOB BUCKHORN:
YOU'VE GOTTA THINK LIKE US.
>>MIKE MERRILL:
SHE HAD THE BABY.
EVERYTHING'S FINE.
WE'RE GOOD.
>>BOB BUCKHORN:
THERE WE GO.
WE'RE GOOD.
>>SANDRA MURMAN:
>>MIKE MERRILL:
GOT ONE MORE.

SHE ONLY MISSED BY A COUPLE WEEKS.
AND EVERYBODY HERE WHO PARTICIPATED FROM -- FROM VARIOUS

STAFFS, YOU WANT TO JUST STAND UP AND -- AND CONSULTANTS
AND EVERYONE ELSE.
>>HERB MARLOWE:
[INAUDIBLE]
>>MIKE MERRILL:
IT'S NOT THE WHOLE GROUP, BUT IT CERTAINLY
IS REPRESENTATIVE.
[APPLAUSE]
THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR SUPPORT.
>>RICK LOTT:
I JUST WANT TO SAY, JUST FROM A CITY PERSON,
OKAY, IS THAT I THINK THERE'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT LEVEL OF

CONFIDENCE IN THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE CITY AND THE
COUNTY NOW.
For: 4602
Page 979 of 1954


52
I THINK THE LEADERSHIP COMES FROM YOU, BUT IT GOES ALL THE
WAY THROUGH YOUR ENTIRE STAFF.
IT'S NO LONGER THE CITY VERSUS THE COUNTY.
I REALLY DO FEEL LIKE WE SIT DOWN TOGETHER AND WE WORK
TOWARDS THE COMMON GOAL, AND I THINK THAT'S -- THAT WILL
BE -- YOU WILL SEE A DIFFERENCE IN THIS REFERENDUM BECAUSE
OF THAT AS WELL, SO I APPRECIATE YOUR LEADERSHIP IN THAT
RESPECT.
>>MIKE MERRILL:
>>MARK SHARPE:
THANK YOU.
CAN WE ADJOURN?
WE'RE ADJOURNED.
>>HERB MARLOWE:
WE'RE ADJOURNED.
THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH.
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Attachment Description: CCNA PROCESS AUGUST 5, 2011 A
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Attachment Description: CCNA PROCESS AUGUST 5, 2011 B
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Attachment Description: CCNA PROCESS FEB 22, 2012
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Attachment Description: CCNA PROCESS JUNE 29, 2011
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Attachment Description: CCNA PROCESS -DISADVANTAGED MINORITY-WOMEN BEPCR J
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Attachment Description: CCNA PROCESS FOR EVALUATION OF 53.PART1
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Attachment Description: CCNA PROCESS FOR EVALUATION OF 53.PART2 -1ST 53
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Attachment Description: CCNA PROCESS INITIAL RANKING OF 53 JAN 13, 2012
Reference Number:
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Attachment Description: CCNA PROCESS SCOPE OF SERVICES MEETING SIGN IN
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Attachment Description: CCNA PROCESS SCORES JANUARY 6, 2012
Reference Number:
For: 4602
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Attachment Description: CCNA PROCESS-APROVAL TO EXCEED WORK ORDER LIMIT
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Attachment Description: DIRECT SELECT MEMO SEPTEMBER 5, 2014
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1147 of 1954


For: 4602
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Attachment Description: ENGAGEMENT LETTER FOR MOORE STEPHENS AND LOVELACE
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1149 of 1954


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Page 1151 of 1954



Attachment Description: HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY LOBBYING REGISTRY FORMS 3 BETH
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1152 of 1954


For: 4602
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Page 1155 of 1954



Attachment Description: INVESTIGATION POWER POINT SLIDES
Reference Number:
Purpose
Mike Merrills Letter
To request that the Sheriffs Office examine the

Countys procurement of professional consulting
services for transportation engineering and
public out reach in connection with the Countys
GoHillsborough
initiative, and
the award of ais to
The purpose of requesting
this investigation
contract
those services
to Parsons and the
determineforwhether
this procurement
Brinckerhoff
and subcontractors
selected of
by
contract awarded
meets all requirements
Parsons.
Florida Statutes and of County Commission
procurement policies, and whether there has
been any violation of State of Florida ethics
rules, as applicable.
For: 4602
Page 1156 of 1954


Environment
Transportation initiative on going 2.5 yrs
Negativity surrounding possible tax
referendum
Comments made by Samod Sam Rashid
on Facebook
Number of citizens have been critical of the
process
Channel 10 News Investigative Reports
10 News Investigative Report
Insert Video
HCSO Investigation
Becoming familiar with procurement
process
Identifying applicable FSS and ordinances
Understanding county government policies
and procedures
Identifying all involved parties
For: 4602
Page 1157 of 1954


History
2010 Failed Tax Referendum
Transportation committee was formed

County and City representatives
Lack of organization/leadership
Lack of support from elected officials
Poor communication
Lack of community involvement
Failed with 42% approval
History
Expanding population
Transportation needs increasing
Lack of funds to pay for it
Mike Merrill becomes County Administrator

TED/PLG formed (2013)
2013 Forming of TED/PLG

Hillsborough County Commissioners
Sandy
Murman
PLG
Facilitator
Herb
Marlowe
Business
Consultant
Victor
Crist
Lesley
Miller
Mark Sharpe Stacy White

Former
Current
Comm.
Comm.
Hillsborough
County Mayors
Bob
Buckhor
n Tampa
Frank
Chillura
Temple
Terrace
Rick Lott
Plant
City
Ken
Hagan
Director of
HART
Mike Suarez
City of
Tampa
Councilman
Kevin
Beckner
Al
Higginbotham
County
Administrator
Mike
Merrill
May 22, 2013 First Meeting
For: 4602
Page 1158 of 1954


Ground Work for Transportation Consultant and

Public Outreach
July 29, 2014 Scroll unveiling to the media
List of transportation projects
Ground Work for Transportation Consultant and

Public Outreach continued
Between May 2013 - August 2014 public outreach
efforts were handled by Merrill and his staff
Following the unveiling:
Scroll list needed to be prioritized
Cost/price determined for each project
Community support needed
Moving Forward for Transportation Consultant

and Public Outreach
July 29, 2014 Mike Merrill issued a memo to
PLG about upcoming meeting
For: 4602
Page 1159 of 1954


Ground Work for Public

Outreach
July 29, 2014
Agenda Materials for August 12, 2014 Policy Leadership

Group (PLG) Meeting
In preparation for the August 12, 2014 PLG meeting, we respectfully submit to
you the following agenda materials in draft format to support a Comprehensive
Mobility Proposal:
4. A recommended plan for public engagement to solicit input on the

Proposal.
The communitys commitment to fund and create a comprehensive,

integrated, multi-modal transportation network in Hillsborough County is
the occurrence that will change the identity of this community and will
transform our transportation culture.
Following the August 12 meeting, at your direction, we will begin an

extensive community outreach effort to get input and suggestions on the
Proposal from individual residents and from businesses. At the conclusion
of the public engagement, the PLG will deliberate changes to the Proposal
and consider funding options.
Briefings have been scheduled with all PLG members to prepare for the
August 12 meeting.
August 12, 2014 PLG Meeting

Open to the public
Transcript of meeting available at
hillsboroughcounty.gov
All PLG members were present
Motion made and approved to hire private
firm
Excerpts from meeting
For: 4602
Page 1160 of 1954


Criteria for the Firm Included
National Firm
Has a Local Presence
Transportation Expert
Success with a Prior Tax Referendum
*There was a sense of urgency by some of the

PLG members for a speedy selection
The Selection Team had Two Choices
Conduct New Procurement
Direct Select- Utilize a firm

already under contract
4-10 months
$$$$$
New pool of firms
Least efficient
Time saver
Firm already procured
CCNA guidelines
Most efficient
2011 Procurement Conducted Under the

Consultants Competitive Negotiations Act (CCNA)
Process specifically used to procure
engineering firms
More thorough process with stringent
guidelines governed by F.S.S. 287.055
Tedious and specific
Put dates from beginning to end
(May 31, 2011 June 8, 2012= 13 months)
For: 4602
Page 1161 of 1954


2011 CCNA Procurement Process

53 Firms
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Feb 22, 2012
May 31, 2011

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Feb 29, 2012

June 6, 2012

Jan 13, 2012
/
Top 10 Engineering Firms Selected Based on Scores

10 Firms Selected
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53 firms down to 10 with a 2 year contract
For: 4602
Page 1162 of 1954


Criteria for the Firm Included
National Firm
Has a Local Presence
Transportation Expert
Success with a Prior Tax Referendum
*Narrowed down to four firms meeting the criteria
Four Engineering Firms
Parsons Brinckerhoff was Chosen

September 5, 2014 John Lyons submits memo
requesting that PB be selected
September 25, 2014 work order in the amount of
$53,234.30 approved by Mike Williams for PB
October 3, 2014 Mike Merrill submits memo to
the PLG
October 21, 2014 the PLG approves PB
For: 4602
Page 1163 of 1954


Parsons Brinckerhoff was Chosen continued

November 26, 2014 work order amount
increased to $498,491.15 for PB
The Leytham Group subcontracted for $212,325.00
Jacobs Engineering subcontracted for $25,000.00
February 10, 2015 work order amount increased

to $950,636.00 approved for PB
The Leytham Group subcontracted for $68,675.00
Jacobs Engineering subcontracted for $25,000.00
Break Down of Investigation

Procurement
Did the procurement
follow legal guidelines?
Was the CCNA process
an appropriate method
for selecting an
engineering firm?
Was the procurement
conducted fairly?
Criminal Violations
Were there any violations
of criminal law, including
the Sunshine Law?
Were public record
requests handled
appropriately?
What was the relationship
of elected officials with
Beth Leytham/The
Leytham Group?
Statues and Concepts Looked at:
Procurement Process
Independent/third party
audit of procurement
process
Criminal Violation
Florida Sunshine Laws

F.S.S. 119 and 286
Competitive Consultant
Negotiations Act
F.S.S. 287.055
Bribery; Misuse of Public
Office/Official Misconduct
F.S.S. 838.022
Lobbyist Ordinance 07-8
and related definitions
F.S.S. 112.3215
For: 4602
Page 1164 of 1954


Moore Stephens and Lovelace Executive Summary

October 6, 2015 MSL agrees to assist with
the GoHillsborough investigation
Bill Blend, CPA assigned
- Interviews conducted
- Contracts and documents reviewed
- Reviewed Florida Attorney General
opinions
Briefing with Mike Merrill

1) Was procurement fair?
2) Contract obtained behind closed doors?
3) Was Beth Leytham a lobbyist for Parsons?
Identified employees/ personnel involved
Interview List
E
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For: 4602
Page 1165 of 1954


Interview List continued

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Public Records Request for all Electronic

Communications related to Go Hillsborough
Hillsborough County
City of Tampa
Plant City
City of Temple Terrace
Beth Leytham/Leytham Group
Reviewed Open Source Information

Newspaper articles
Editorials
Video interviews
BOCC and PLG videos and minutes
Website content
Reviewed lobbyist registration process
Financial disclosure forms
For: 4602
Page 1166 of 1954


Pertinent Documents
Text messages
Lobbyist registration forms for Beth
Leytham
E-mails
Contracts
Memos/work orders
Text Messages
Between Merrill and Leytham
Between Merrill and Murman
Hagan and Leytham
Lobbyist Registration Forms

Leytham signed in as a lobbyist at
the County Center on three occasions
between 2013-2014
On two of those occasions the forms
were incomplete
Did not sign in as a lobbyist for PB
For: 4602
Page 1167 of 1954


E-mails recovered
Public and private accounts between
Leytham and commissioners
Between Leytham and Parsons
Brinkerhoff
Time Line of HCSO Investigation Sept - Oct

Mike Merrill
sends letter to
Sheriff Gee
requesting
assistance.
Sept. 21
Met with Merrill

Was
procurement fair?
Contract
obtained behind
closed doors?
Is Leytham a
lobbyist?
Subpoena for
Beth Leythams
phone records
sent to Verizon.
Oct. 13
Sept. 23
2FW
6HSW
Sept. 22
Investigation
begins.
Compiling of
information
and news
articles.
Sept. 25
Request for emails and

texts related to
GoHillsborough.
Request for contracts
from PB regarding Beth
Leytham.
Oct. 1st
Moore Stephens
and Lovelace
selected to
conduct audit.
Oct. 14
Interviews begin
Time Line of HCSO Investigation Nov - Dec

Formal
complaint made
to the Florida
Commission on
Ethics by 3
county residents.
Dec. 4
1RY
'HF
Nov. 16
Beth Leythams
phone records
received.
For: 4602
Page 1168 of 1954


Summary of Interviews Related to PB Selection

RS & H Mike Coleman
HDR Matt Ryan
HNTB Jim Drapp
Mike Merrill
Lucia Garsys
Larry Scully
John Lyons
Mike Williams
Scott Stromer
John Hollingshead
Tom Fesler

RS & H
Mike Coleman
HDR
Matt Ryan
HNTB
Jim Drapp
Jim Drapp
Was
contacted
wasby
contacted
Mike
John Lyons
Williams
by Mike Williams
Sent qualification
Asked
to assist in campaign
package tofor
effort
John
a tax
to
Lyons
raise
referendum
and
tax Larry
for
Concerned
that HNTB would not be selected
transportation
Scully
Declinedofparticipation
Contacted
because
by
Greenlight
John Lyons
project
because
pertaining
it wastonot
nottheir
being
expertise
selected
Sent email
Tampa
Never
heard
Baytowater
back
Mikereservoir
from
Williams
Mike
issue
declining
Williams
not a factor
participation
Larry Scully contacted Michael Dement who sent
information

Larry Scully
John Lyons
Mike Williams
Director
of
Public
Works/Professional
Engineer
Consultant
Hillsborough
Countyand
for
20 years ( Public/Private
Director
of with
Transportation,
Planning
Procurement
months/Direct Select standard
Partnership) usually takes 6-9
Development/Professional
Engineer
practice
Asked to assist Mike
Williams
andare
John
Lyons practices
in August of 2014
CCNA/General
Service
Contracts
standard
Not influenced
bytoanyone
to choose
PB of referendum
Selection
needed
move national
quickly
because
PLG
wanted
professional
firm/referendum
Nothing
flawed about
process/would
useestimates/quick
theHDR,
sameand
selection
Used contracted
firms.the
Reached
outfor
to HNTB,
PB
experience/engineering
component
cost
methodNot
again
selection
HDRresponsive/package
notprocurement
impressive
needed/no
time for new
HDR-Water
reservoir
not
a
factor/separate
department
HNTB-GreenLight
Pinellas
HNTB-Jim
Drapp/HDR-Reservoir
not a factor/PB-George
Prior history
with HDR whichofgave
concern (Shop drawings)
Walton
PB-Most
responsive/number
priorhim
projects/referendum
HNTB-GreenLight
experience
Meeting
with Mike Merrell on selection-Flip a Coin
PB-Didknow
really
goodLeytham
work/right
company
forbetween
the job
Didnt
Beth
kickoff
meeting
withHNTB
PB
GreenLight
involvement
wasuntil
the
tiebreaker
and
Recommended
to who
MiketoMerrill
Not PB
pressured orPB
told
select
Metpressure
Beth Leytham
after selection
PB
No
or influence
on who toofchoose
Met Beth Leytham after selection of PB
For: 4602
Page 1169 of 1954


Summary of Mike Merrills Interview

County Administrator since 2010
Chose PB based on recommendation from selection team
No pressure or influence in who to choose
Met Beth Leytham in 2005
Texts from Leytham during PLG were unsolicited and provided no benefit
Unaware that Leytham was working with PB until after selection
Leytham never mentioned PB with her advice or opinion
Leytham never approached him on behalf of PB/or offered her services
Leytham was not a lobbyist but had clever positioning tactics
Murmans text about HDR had no influence on selection/her opinion
Summary of Mike Merrills Interview

Re-interviewed on December 21 after Leytham
Hagan meeting during decision process
Remembers briefing all PLG members prior to Aug 12 meeting
Phone conversation with Leytham Aug 8, 2014
Did not know she was representing PBwould not have had
conversation with her
Leytham never said hire me hire Parsons
Summary of Interview with Lucia Garsys

Chief of Infrastructure and Development since 2010
Roll in selection process was limited
Mike Merrill relied heavily on staff for recommendation
Met Leytham in 2008-2009 (Transportation Task Force)
Worked out at same bar studio/conversations about business
Leytham never pushed PB to her
Unaware Leytham was working for PB prior to GoHillsborough
Would have been more cautious had she known
For: 4602
Page 1170 of 1954



Scott Stromer
John Hollingshead
Tom Fesler
Director of Procurement since January 2015

Described
CCNA
as
higher
level, (until
more tedious
and
Manager
of
Procurement
Services
Interim
Director
ofprocess
Procurement
Services
Scott Stromer)
Describes
CCNA
process as fair and helps spread work out evenly
deliberate
CCNA
process
is routine
Direct
select
is continuation
Higher
standards
selection of
/ the
most qualified firms are used
Approximately
200for
procurements
aCCNA
year
4-10
not
Not months
involved
in uncommon
selection
offor
PBprocurement
/ no protests from other firms
Minimum
6 months
to complete
Not
Would
have
followed
course
of action
if atincounty
at that
Never
met Leytham
/same
notofaware
of any
influence
decision
making
involved
in selection
PB
time Leytham at GoHills meetings / no conversations
Saw
Never met Leytham/ unaware of any influence
Summary of Interviews
Peggy Caskey
Bonnie Wise
Liana Lopez
Administrator
since 2011
Chief Financial
Communications
Administrator
since may 2014
County Auditor since September 2015 / Clerk of the Court Auditor
Procurement,
HR,public
Planning
and requests
Affordable
Oversees
Had knowledge
of NoahBudget,
Pranskys
records
prior to
Housing
First
met Leytham in 2003-2004 / Riverwalk project
November 2014 she conducted a preliminary review of PB selection
Reports
to was
MikeatMerrill
Next time
the scroll reveal meeting July 2014
In 2013 she conducted a full audit of the CCNA process and
Was
not involved
in CCNA
process or
selection of PB
Leytham
didthere
not appear
to issues
represent
anyone
determined
were
no
Has never
metatLeytham
First
met Leytham
PB meeting
Saw
Leytham
PBatafter
selection took place
Not involved in selection process
Summary of PLG Member Interviews

Lott
Chillura
Suarez
Mayor
Temple
Terrace
2012 2011 / appointed HART
City
of of
Tampa
PlantCouncilmember
City
since since
2010 since
Director
Member
of City
TED/PLG
since inception
Prior Plant
Commission
for 12 years
Does
not
know
and
would not recognize her if he saw her
Served
onof
TED/PLG
inception
Member
TEDLeytham
/PLGsince
from
inception
No
involved
in selection
process
PLG
hadhave
nowith
control
over
how
process
was done
Didcontact
not
anyfirms
influence
on selection
the
County
because and
county
Does notdecision
know Leytham
hascontract
never had any contact with her
Met
15-20
ago at any meeting
Was Leytham
unaware she
wasyears
present
Had knowledge PB was a client of Leytham for public relations
For: 4602
Page 1171 of 1954



Higginbotham
White
Sharpe
Commissioner since
from 2004
November
2006 to 2014
2014 after PB selection
No
Partinvolvement
of
2010someone
referendum
PLG
needed
in selection
withattempt
engineering
of PB
experience, not PR firm
Played
a part
in development
of TED/PLG
Common
No
training
to upon
select
election
from preapproved
regarding
Sunshine/public
groupwith Merrill
records
Relied
Notdid
aware
of who
was
the school
running
for selection
He
on
notprior
influence
training
or in
recommend
from
selection
board
of PB
Chip
Fletcher
affirmed
Believes
Met
Leytham
the selection
during
his
ofthe
election
PBselection
was done
runprocess
inproperly
2013
Leytham
always
makeand
it clear
if she
was representing a
Gray areawould
between
lobbying
public
relations
client
Need clearer definition of lobbying and training for lobbyists

Crist
Beckner
Miller
2010
County
Commissioner
since 2010/newly elected chair
Commissioner
since 2008
This no
transportation
initiative
not
a topvspriority
for him
Had
involvement
inaformation
of TED/PLG
group
Cost
effective
to have
groupwas
of vendors
new
procurement
Has involved
knownofLeytham
for over
30 years
brother/sister
relationship
Not
aware
how
selection
process
would
occur
in selection
process/no
influence
Seeks
advice
regarding
relations
BestPB
in prior
townto GoHills
Not
aware
of any
influence
of
selection
of PB
Did
nother
know
Leytham
wasmedia
under
contract
with
Sunshine
ethics
for county
is very of
broad
and subjective
Never
met/ of
Leytham/no
knowledge
her GoHills
involvement
Definition
lobbyist
not
clear
until
Leytham
never asked for business
media
Did not
for PB (Bass
prior to
GoHills
Does
notknow
recallLeytham
meetingworked
with Leytham
Pro
Shop)
GoHills community outreach-best method
Summary of Interview with Chip Fletcher

Chief Counsel for Hillsborough County since November 2012
First met Leytham professionally after PB had been selected
The CCNA process was an appropriate method for selection
Process conducted by the book
Not involved in selection process, but provided legal advice when
asked
Assisted commissioners with text message preservation awareness
Murmans HDR opinion to Merrill is allowed
For: 4602
Page 1172 of 1954


Summary of Interview with Bob Buckhorn

City of Tampa Mayor since 2011
Member of PLG/TED-fact finding group to prep for possible
2016 referendum
There is a sense of urgency/big supporter of referendum
Not aware of the firms in the running at time of selection
Was not involved in the selection
Has been Leythams friend for 25 years
Knew of Leytham representing PB for years
To his knowledge, Leytham did not attempt to influence the
selection
Summary of Interview with Ken Hagan
Commissioner since 2002

Investigation has caused the County to refresh
Pransky email request (June to Sept)
Emails on private account still need to be preserved
Met with Merrill prior to PLG meeting shown list of
firms (????)
Not aware of decision process
No influence on selection of PB
PB did a thorough job but cost too much $$
Summary of Interview with Ken Hagan

Known Leytham since 2003
Unaware she was working for PB prior to GoHillsborough
August 19, 2014 text discussion on moving forward
Denied Leytham contacted him about PB awarded contract
Would not consider or define her as a lobbyist
Did not recall Uber/Taxi meeting in 2013
Texts with Leytham BOCC meeting October 2015. No
rules
For: 4602
Page 1173 of 1954


Summary of Interview with Sandy Murman

Commissioner since 2010
Text message preservation / Text gate
Discovered cell phone was deleting text messages every 2 weeks
Never purposely hid information regarding public records
Never directed Merrill of who to choose / sense of urgency
Text on August 15, 2014 and HDR
Set up meeting for Merrill and Goodman (information sharing)

Met Leytham in 1998 Re-election to Legislature / Next was 2010
Portrayed her relationship with Leytham as one sided
Appeared to be distancing herself from Leytham (challenges)
Labeled her as a paid consultant but she lobbies
Assumed she was working for PB prior to GoHillsborough
Leytham told her would like to see PB get contract
Email from Leytham on August 12, 2014 Outline on transportation
Phone records of Leytham (she called me a lot)
Did not know PB was going to hire Leytham for GoHillsborough
Leytham has connections with media (editorials)

Re-interviewed after Leytham (discrepancies)
Pure Barre Fitness Studio
Didnt recall asking for outline from August 12 (phone records)
Never came out and said, I work for PB
Felt used by Leytham/benefited from friendship
Should have registered as a lobbyist
For: 4602
Page 1174 of 1954


Summary of Interview with Beth Leytham

Moved to Tampa in 1986
Started Leytham group in 2003
Started with PB in 2010 as a Public Relations Consultant
Continuous PR contract through 2014
Summary of Interview with Parsons Brinckerhoff
Bob Clifford
George Walton
Louis Betz
Tasks Completed
38 interviews
492,136 county / city e-mails reviewed (tens of thousands of
attachments)
Reviewed approximately 10,000 Parsons Brinckerhoff emails and
attachments
Reviewed Financial Disclosure Files for each government official
involved
Reviewed all content on Go Hillsborough and Leytham Group sites
Reviewed all lobbyist registration forms for Hillsborough County from
2010-2014 (obtained copies of Beth Leythams completed and
incomplete forms)
For: 4602
Page 1175 of 1954


Tasks Completed continued

70 news articles reviewed and compiled pertaining to Go
Hillsborough
Reviewed Beth Leythams phone records paying particular attention
to the August 2014 to September 2014 time period
Reviewed known outgoing and incoming cellular text messages
between Commissioners, County Employees, PLG Members and
Beth Leytham between the time frame of August 2014 November
2015
Audit conducted by Moore Stephens and Lovelace
2010 - 2012
>'W

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July 23, 2010
>'W

>

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Jan 27, 2011
,
W
W

May 7, 2011
Z

ZW^

August 5, 2011

May 31, 2011
W

= Beth under
contract with
Parsons
Brinkerhoff
Oct 14, 2011
/s
dZ
t
2013-2014
BOCC adopts county
strategic plan which
initiates the formation of
TED. Item B-11
May 15, 2013
TED (PLG) is
established for the
purpose of uniting
transportation
stakeholders in
Hillsborough County.
May 22, 2013

TED (Transportation for Economic Development)
(Policy Leadership Group) is made up of all 7
Hillsborough County Commissioners, the Mayors
of Tampa, Plant City and Temple Terrace and the
appointed Director of HART (who is a city of
Tampa Councilman).
For: 4602
Page 1176 of 1954


2014
B.L. signs 1
year contract
w/ P.B. $5,000
a month as
consultant.
Bob Clifford
leaves
TBARTA to
work for
P.B.
April 1, 2014
June 29. 2014
Sandy Murman
text to Mike
Merrill. Expedite
selection ASAP.
Specifically
mentions P.B. as
possible firm.
Sandy
Murman text
to Mike
Merrill
asking you
not to pick
HDR
August 15, 2014
August 22, 2014

&RQW
June 4, 2014
Aug 12, 2014
All 10 firms
have their
contracts
extended for
additional 2
years.
PLG meeting
motion passed
to give Mike
Merrill
authority to
choose a firm.
Sept 3, 2014
Aug 19, 2014
B.L. text to Mike Merrill

ref transo and Com. B.L.
E-mail to Ken Hagan
links to Mercury &
Victory Group
WSP
announces
plans to
purchase
P.B. for 1.2
Billion
2014-2015
Public Works
department
submits a
direct select
memo
requesting P.B.
PLG meeting,
P.B. is
announced.
Presentation
by George
Walton. Scope
now $900,000
Sept 5, 2014
Work order revised for

P.B. to $498,491. Sub
contractors listed:
BL for $212,325.
Jacobs engineering for
$25,000.
Nov 26, 2014
Oct 21. 2014

Sept 25, 2014
Work order
for
$53,000
for P.B.
Oct 3, 2014
Oct 31, 2014
Merrill
sends memo
ref P.B. to be
named at
Oct 21st PLG
meeting
WSP buys
P.B. 1.24
Billion
dollars.
2015
BOCC approved revised work
order for P.B. to $950, 686. Sub
contractors phase 3: Jacobs
Engineering for $25,000 and
Leytham Group $68,675.
Jan 22, 2015
Preliminary test of GO
Hillsborough data.
Phase 1 deliverables.
May 2015

March 2015
July 2015
Sept 21, 2015
P.B. preliminary
assessment under
county audit
department.
Final test
of Go Hills
comment
data
Mike Merrill
sends letter to
Sheriff asking
for investigation
For: 4602
Page 1177 of 1954


Moore Stephens and Lovelace Executive Summary

October 6, 2015 MSL agrees to assist with the
GoHillsborough investigation
Bill Blend, CPA assigned
January 5, 2016 review completed
No violations found
For: 4602
Page 1178 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1179 of 1954



Attachment Description: LEYTHAM'S PHONE RECORD ANALYSIS INCOMING & OUTGOIN
Reference Number:
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For: 4602
Page 1180 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1181 of 1954



Attachment Description: LIST OF NON CELL PHONE STIPEND RECIPIANTS
Reference Number:
From: "Barbara Von der Osten" <VonderOstenB@hillsboroughcounty.org>

To: "CHARLES P. HOLLIS" <chollis@hcso.tampa.fl.us>
Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2015 9:34:36 AM
Subject: Commissioners Text Messages and Cell Phone Stipend Information
,

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z
For: 4602
Page 1182 of 1954



For: 4602
Page 1183 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1184 of 1954



Attachment Description: MEETING CAPTIONING 8.12.14 TED
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1185 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1186 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1187 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1188 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1189 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1190 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1191 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1192 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1193 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1194 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1195 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1196 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1197 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1198 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1199 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1200 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1201 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1202 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1203 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1204 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1205 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1206 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1207 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1208 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1209 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1210 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1211 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1212 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1213 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1214 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1215 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1216 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1217 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1218 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1219 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1220 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1221 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1222 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1223 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1224 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1225 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1226 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1227 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1228 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1229 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1230 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1231 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1232 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1233 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1234 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1235 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1236 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1237 of 1954



Attachment Description: MEMORANDUM FROM MIKE MERRILL TO THE TED-PLG
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1238 of 1954


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For: 4602
Page 1239 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1240 of 1954



Attachment Description: MEMORANDUM FROM MIKE WILLIAMS DATED MAY 31,2011
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1241 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1242 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1243 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1244 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1245 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1246 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1247 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1248 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1249 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1250 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1251 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1252 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1253 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1254 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1255 of 1954



Attachment Description: MEMORANDUM-REQUEST FOR PROFESSIONSAL SERVICES
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1256 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1257 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1258 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1259 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1260 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1261 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1262 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1263 of 1954


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Hillsborough County
Florida
HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY
WORK ORDER
FOR MISCELLANEOUS CONSULTING SERVICES CONTRACT
WORK ORDER NO.: PWGC20140011
PURCHASE ORDER NO.: RQ 214116064
PROJECT: HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY TRANSPORTATION REFERENDUM SUPPORT FOR THE
TRANSPORTATION/ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (TED) POLICY GROUP
This Work Order is issued in accordance with the terms and conditions of the Miscellaneous Consulting Services contract
with PARSONS BRINCKERHOFF INC.
CONTACT:
TELEPHONE NO:
FAX NO:
GEORGE WALTON
8135204444
WALTON@PBWORLD.COM
DIRECT SELECT:
YES
HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY DOCUMENT NO.:

HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY PROJECT MGR:
SERVICES REQUESTED BY (USER DEPT):
120593
C.I.P. NO.(S):
XxxxxxxxxXxxxx
Meachum,
Patty Lyons, John
FIELD OPERATIONS DIVISION
N/A
The contractor indicated above is hereby issued this Work Order for the subject project as fully described "in the attached
Project Information, Summary Proposal and/or scope of services all documents referenced therein for a price" not to
exceed: $ 53234.30
THIS IS YOUR NOTICE TO PROCEED.
Estimated Completion Date: 10/31/2014
REMARKS:
ACCOUNTING STRING:
ORIGINAL AMOUNT:
$ 53234.30
Williams, Mike
APPROVED: Williams, Mike, Director, Public Works Department
09/25/2014
DATE
NO SIGNATURE REQUIRED. THIS DOCUMENT HAS BEEN ELECTRONICALLY APPROVED.

cc:
BOCC Accounting
Fiscal
File
MBE
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Hillsborough County
Florida
HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY
WORK ORDER
FOR MISCELLANEOUS CONSULTING SERVICES CONTRACT
WORK ORDER NO.: PWGC20140011R1
PURCHASE ORDER NO.: SPO 215201652
PROJECT: HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY TRANSPORTATION REFERENDUM SUPPORT FOR THE
TRANSPORTATION/ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (TED) POLICY GROUP
This Work Order is issued in accordance with the terms and conditions of the Miscellaneous Consulting Services contract
with PARSONS BRINCKERHOFF INC.
CONTACT:
TELEPHONE NO:
FAX NO:
GEORGE WALTON
8135204444
WALTON@PBWORLD.COM
DIRECT SELECT:
NO
HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY DOCUMENT NO.:

HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY PROJECT MGR:
SERVICES REQUESTED BY (USER DEPT):
120593
C.I.P. NO.(S):
Williams, Mike
FIELD OPERATIONS DIVISION
N/A
The contractor indicated above is hereby issued this Work Order for the subject project as fully described "in the attached
Project Information, Summary Proposal and/or scope of services all documents referenced therein for a price" not to
exceed: $ 498491.15
THIS IS YOUR NOTICE TO PROCEED.
Estimated Completion Date: 03/31/2016
REMARKS:
REVISION #1 TO WORK ORDER #PWGC20140011 (PWGC20140011R1) TO INCREASE

THE WORK ORDER BY $445,306.78 ACCOUNTING STRING:
ORIGINAL AMOUNT:
REVISED AMOUNT:
$ 53184.37
$ 498491.15
Williams, Mike
APPROVED: Williams, Mike, Director, Public Works Department
11/26/2014
DATE
NO SIGNATURE REQUIRED. THIS DOCUMENT HAS BEEN ELECTRONICALLY APPROVED.

cc:
BOCC Accounting
Fiscal
File
MBE
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$JHQGD,WHP&RYHU6KHHW
$JHQGD,WHP1R A-29
January 22, 2015
0HHWLQJ'DWH
x
&RQVHQW6HFWLRQ
5HJXODU6HFWLRQ
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6XEMHFW
Resolution for Budget Amendment for Additional Services for the Hillsborough County Transportation
Initiative for the Hillsborough County Policy Leadership Group (PLG) and Approval to Exceed Work
Order limit for Work Order #PWGC20140011

Works
'HSDUWPHQW1DPH Public

&RQWDFW3HUVRQ John Lyons
6LJQ2II$SSURYDOV

$VVLVWDQW&RXQW\$GPLQLVWUDWRU

0DQDJHPHQWDQG%XGJHW$SSURYHGDVWR)LQDQFLDO,PSDFW$FFXUDF\
&RQWDFW3KRQH

01/15/2015
'DWH
307-4754

'HSDUWPHQW'LUHFWRU
01/15/2015
'DWH
&RXQW\$WWRUQH\$SSURYHGDVWR/HJDO6XIILFLHQF\
01/16/2015
'DWH
01/16/2015
'DWH

Staff's Recommended Board Motion:
A) Approve budget amendment in the amount of $450,637 from the BOCC Financial System
Replacement Project to the Public Works Department's operating budget. (General Revenue
Unincorporated Area)
B) Authorize County Administrator to exceed the $500,000 work order threshold amount for Work
Order #PWGC20140011 to Parsons Brinckerhoff, Inc. for additional services for the Hillsborough
County Transportation Initiative for the Hillsborough County Leadership Group (PLG). (Revision #2).
This item will increase the amount for Work Order #PWGC20140011 from $498,541.08 to a total of
$950,686.56.
Financial Impact Statement:

This action will reduce CIP # 77762, BOCC Financial System Replacement Project, by $450,637 from
$21,550,000 to $21,099,363 and increases the Public Works Department operating budget from
$73,251,983 to $73,702,620.
Background:
Parsons Brinckerhoff, Inc. was selected to provide engineering, planning, financial, technical analysis,
and other services to develop a transportation plan. The efforts to develop this plan include coordination
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with Hillsborough County, the Hillsborough Area Regional Transit Authority, cities of Tampa, Temple
Terrace, and Plant City. On January 14, 2015, the Transportation for Economic Development Policy
Leadership Group (PLG) unanimously approved moving forward with a public engagement process
which is reflected in this proposed revision to the current work order with Parsons Brinckerhoff, Inc.
The additonal meetings reflected in the PLG aproval are not refelcted at this time and if there are any
additional funding requirements, a budget amendmet would be brought back at a subsequent Board
Meeting.
List Attachments:
Line Item Detail, Scope of Work
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ATTACHMENTH
County Audits Reply to Questions Received From Sharon Calvert on
December 4, 2014
1) Where are the Parsons Brinckerhoff contract(s) for the $900,000 of work?

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2) Parsons Brinckerhoff was awarded this work via no-bid. Why didnt the County go through
the transparent bid process for this work?

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3) The FY2015 budget has $500,000 for transportation planning. Is this money going to
Parsons Brinckerhoff?
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4) Where is the remaining $400,000 coming from?

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5) How can the County award a contract to Parsons Brinckerhoff for $900,000 if the County
does not have all the funds to pay for it?


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6) Where is a breakdown of the cost estimates or Statement of Work for all the activities
Parsons Brinckerhoff is doing for the $900,000?


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7) How does the County know the cost of this $900,000 is competitive?


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8) Why is it costing so much to revalidate costs of projects already identified that had
previous cost estimates?

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9) Where is the appropriation/ approval by the BOCC for spending $900,000? Pe r Sha ro n
Ca lve rt, the re wa s no BOCC a p p ro va l fo r the $900,000 c o ntra c t fo r Pa rso ns Brinc ke rho ff.
This a mo unt is o ve r the a utho rity o f the Co unty Administra to r so the BOCC must a p p ro ve
the a p p ro p ria tio n. The se funds c a nno t b e ha ndle d a s nume ro us wo rk o rde rs a g a inst
Pa rso ns Brinc ke rho ff s g e ne ric e ng ine e ring c o ntra c t.)

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Attachment Description: REPORT AUTHORED BY WILLIAM BLEND, CPA
Reference Number:
INVESTIGATION REPORT
GoHillsborough Initiative Contract Award for Engineering

and Public Outreach Professional Services
Hillsborough County Sheriffs Office
Hillsborough, Florida
Prepared by: William Blend, CPA, CFE
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TABLE OF CONTENTS
PAGE
REPORT:
SECTION I BACKGROUND
SECTION II EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
SECTION III OBJECTIVE
SECTION IV APPROACH AND SCOPE OF SERVICES
SECTION V FINDINGS
SECTION VI REPORT DISTRIBUTION
LIST OF EXHIBITS
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January 5, 2016
Sheriff David Gee
Hillsborough County Sheriff
2008 E. 8th Avenue
Tampa, FL 33605
Dear Sheriff Gee:
The following summarizes the results of our investigation, related to Hillsborough Countys
(County) procurement of professional consulting services for transportation, engineering and
public outreach in connection with the GoHillsborough initiative (GoHillsborough), and the
awarding of a contract for those services to Parsons Brinckerhoff, Inc. f/k/a PB Americas, Inc.
(Parsons).
SECTION I BACKGROUND
On September 29, 2015, Moore Stephens Lovelace, P.A. (MSL) was contacted by Tina Porter,
Comptroller at Hillsborough County Sheriffs Office (Sheriff). Ms. Porter indicated that the
Sheriff would be interested in forensic services related to possible noncompliance with County
and state laws, County ordinances and/or policies and procedures related to the awarding of the
GoHillsborough professional services contract to Parsons.
The Sheriff directed MSL to perform our services under the direction of Corporal C. Preston
Hollis. Our engagement letter detailed the anticipated scope of services for this engagement and
has been labeled Exhibit A to this report.
SECTION II EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
Our examination of the awarding of the engineering and related services contract for the
Countys GoHillsborough project to Parsons by the Hillsborough County Public Works
Department included reviewing various documents, as listed in Section IV of this report. In
addition, we conducted interviews of key participants involved in the selection of Parsons for the
project. A listing of individuals interviewed can be found in Section IV of this report.
After our independent review of the selection of Parsons for the GoHillsborough contract, we did
not find any violation of state law or County purchasing and departmental policies and
procedures related to the selection of Parsons. It appears that the overriding factor in the
selection of Parsons was direction provided to staff from the Transportation for Economic
Development Policy Leadership Group (PLG). During their meeting on August 12, 2014 (see
Attachment B), the PLG voted on a motion for County staff to move forward with engaging a
private-sector entity with transportation experience. In addition, the PLG included direction that
the entity be one which had experience with successful transportation-related referendums across
the country. PLG agreed there needed to be a public outreach component to this process;
however, they wanted the lead contractor to have national transportation experience.
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Sheriff David Gee

January 5, 2016
Page 2
SECTION III OBJECTIVE
The objective of our work was as follows:
x
Perform procedures to make an independent evaluation of the procurement process

performed related to the awarding of the Engineering and Public Outreach
Professional Services contract (Contract) to Parsons related to the GoHillsborough
initiative.
Provide a written report of our findings.
Our report is based on information provided to us and the procedures we performed, as described
below.
SECTION IV APPROACH AND SCOPE OF SERVICES
Principal Investigative Team Member
William Blend, Certified Public Accountant (CPA), Certified Fraud Examiner (CFE).
Procedures
As part of the examination of this matter, the Team took the following actions:
1) Held introduction meetings with:
a. Sheriff and Sheriffs staff, including Corporal Hollis (investigation lead
contact)
b. Countys internal auditor
c. County Attorney
2) Introduction meetings were held for the purpose of introducing the Team to the
Sheriff and applicable County staff and to obtain general information regarding the
engagement, including any County assessments performed related to the contract.
3) Reviewed the following documents and reports related to the contract:
a. F.S. 218.055 Acquisition of professional architectural, engineering,
landscape architectural, or surveying and mapping services; definitions;
procedures; contingent fees prohibited; and penalties.
b. Florida Attorney General Opinions; AGO 2013-28; AGO 2010-20; AGO 9652; and AGO 88-42 related to F.S. 218.055.
c. Parsons Brinckerhoff Contract Preliminary Assessment, issued by Peggy
Caskey, Director of County Audit. Including supporting documents.
d. Procurement documents associated with RPS-S-0235-0-2011/LP for
Professional Engineering Services for General/Civil for the Public Works
Department.
e. Contract and related attachments issued to Parsons associated with RPS-S0235-0-2011/LP.
f. Hillsborough County Procurement Policies and Procedures.
g. Hillsborough County Public Works Department Project Management
Delivery Team Manual.
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4) Interviewed the following individuals:
a. John Lyons, Director Public Works Department;
b. Larry Scully, President, Scully Capital;
c. Mike Williams, Division Director, Transportation Planning and
Development;
d. Tom Fesler, Director Management and Budget;
e. Scott Stromer, Director Procurement Services Department; and
f. Mitchell Ramos, Director of Fiscal and Support for Public Works.
5) Based on our review of the documents and interviews performed, as noted above, we
obtained an understanding of the applicable state law and County policies and
departmental procedures related to the procurement of engineering professional
services. We also obtained adequate information on which to develop our findings, as
described below.
SECTION V FINDINGS
Below are our findings based upon the procedures we performed.
The County followed state law and County policies and procedures in the awarding of
professional services for RPS-S-0235-0-2011/LP
Our review of various procurement documents performed during our on-site visit to the Countys
Procurement Services and Public Works Departments (Department) showed that the County
properly followed F.S. 218.055 and County Procurement policies and procedures in the selection
of ten (10) firms to provide professional engineering services for general/civil projects for Public
Works, the initial agreements were entered into on June 6, 2012. Parsons was ranked fourth in
this process (see Attachment C). The initial term of these agreements was two years, with a
County option to extend the contract for an additional two-year period. The ten contracts were
renewed by the County. The additional two-year term was from June 8, 2014 through June 7,
2016. This means that when Parsons was selected for the GoHillsborough project in September
2014, they were still under contract in accordance with the terms and conditions set forth in their
agreement with the County related to RPS-S-0235-0-2011/LP.
The County followed County policies and procedures in renewing the ten firms for the
allowed second two-year term, which was part of the original award of professional
services awarded through RPS-S-0235-0-2011/LP
In May 2014, the County, in accordance with the original award, renewed the ten firms for an
additional two years (June 8, 2014 through June 7, 2016). The Department properly documented
the four items required for renewal which were: statement that the contractors performance has
been satisfactory, statement that the current pricing has been reviewed and determined to be fair
and reasonable, verify that insurance is current and verify that applicable licenses are current (see
Attachment D).
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January 5, 2016
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The County followed County policies and procedures in tracking the activity of the
contractors associated with RPS-S-0235-0-2011/LP
In accordance with County policy, the Department is responsible for tracking the activity of
contractors selected utilizing the Consultants Competitive Negotiations Act (CCNA). Based
upon interviews performed and review of Department documentation provided, it appears the
Department was properly tracking projects awarded to the ten firms originally selected in the
awarding of RPS-S-0235-0-2011/LP. At the end of the initial contract term, Parsons was ranked
first, meaning that Parsons had received the least amount of dollars in consulting work during the
first two-year term. Therefore, it would be appropriate for them to enter the second two-year
term of the contract as the top ranked firm (see Attachment E).
The County utilized the Direct Selection process as documented in Section B.3.6 of the
Public Works Department Project Management Delivery Team Manual (PMDTM) to
select Parsons for the GoHillsborough contract
Based upon the direction to staff by the PLG staff, the County utilized the direct selection
process in the selection of Parsons for the GoHillsborough engineering and public outreach
contract. While they used this method, the Department also utilized a group of three individuals
to review the firms selected in the RPS-S-0235-0-2011/LP and evaluate which one(s) would
meet the criteria set by the PLG. In doing this review, they narrowed the group of ten firms down
to four possibilities. This group was further narrowed to three after Reynolds Smith and Hill
(RS&H) indicated in an e-mail to Mike Williams that they were not equipped to run a ballot
initiative campaign (see Attachment H). The final group of three is documented in the memo
from John Lyons of the Public Works Department, dated September 5, 2014 to Mitch Ramos,
Director of Fiscal & Support Service, Parsons was selected because they have worked on
successful transportation referendum initiatives around the country (see Attachment F). This
memo also details why the other two firms were eliminated. This memo was consistent with
information we obtained in our interviews of all three individuals involved in the evaluation
process.
In accordance with Section 9.0 of the contract between the County and Parsons, Parsons
submitted for and received the proper approval from the County for the use of
subcontractors for the GoHillsborough contract.
Section 9.0 of the Parsons contract with the County requires that approval be obtained from the
Department Director prior to Parsons engaging a subcontractor. Parsons obtained this approval
in accordance with the contract. This approval is documented by the Countys approval of
Parsons work order submission (see Attachment G for example). Overall, the use of subcontractors for a project performed under CCNA is a common practice. In general, the purpose of
this practice is to assign responsibility for all phases of a project to one entity. This allows the
County to hold that same entity accountable for the successful completion of the entire project.
As an example in a design and build project, having the same entity responsible for both the
design and the building phases of a project eliminates the construction contractor from blaming
the failure of the project on design flaws and vice versa. During our interviews, this was
identified as a common practice of the County. Therefore, the use of The Leytham Group and
Jacobs Engineering as sub-contractors under the Parsons contract would appear to be consistent
with this practice.
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Sheriff David Gee

January 5, 2016
Page 5
SECTION VI REPORT DISTRIBUTION
Our work was performed at the direction of the Hillsborough County Sheriff and is considered
confidential. This report was drafted to assist the Sheriffs Office in the investigation regarding
the Countys procurement of professional consulting services for transportation, engineering and
public outreach services in connection with the GoHillsborough initiative. We hereby consent
that you may share copies of our report with those parties you deem necessary for the purpose of
completing your investigation into this matter and for that purpose only.
Sincerely,
MOORE STEPHENS LOVELACE, P.A.

mmb
h:\h\hcso38009\admin\hcso report-final 1.5.16.docx
Attachments
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Sheriff David Gee

January 5, 2016
Page 6
LIST OF EXHIBITS
Exhibit A Engagement Letter between The Hillsborough County Sheriffs Office and Moore
Stephens Lovelace, P.A. dated October 6, 2015
Exhibit B Minutes of the August 12, 2014 Transportation for Economic Development in
Hillsborough County Policy Leadership Group
Exhibit C Final results of RPS-S-0235-0-2011/LP BOCC agenda item, final rankings and
general conditions
Exhibit D Administrative Renewal and specific documentation related to Parsons Brinckerhoff
Exhibit E Public Works Department Consultant Rotation Report
Exhibit F Direct select memo
Exhibit G Work Order No.: PWGC20140011R1 including subcontractor information
Exhibit H E-mail to Mike Williams from RS&H
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Attachment A
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Attachment B
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Attachment C
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Attachment D
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Attachment E
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Attachment F
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Attachment G
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Attachment H
William Blend
FW: Hillsborough County TED efforts
Subject:
From: Coleman, Michael [mailto:Michael.Coleman@rsandh.com]

Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 11:29 AM
To: Williams, Michael <WilliamsM@HillsboroughCounty.ORG>
Cc: Hanegraaf, Phil <Phil.Hanegraaf@rsandh.com>; Sill, Ronald <Ron.Sill@rsandh.com>
Subject: Hillsborough County TED efforts
Mike,
I left you a phone message Friday afternoon saying that RS&H is not equipped to run a ballot initiative campaign, but we
could provide technical support and services such video production as weve done in the past if you need it. Tucker Hall
was the company performing the PR for the GreenLight Pinellas ballot initiative (they bowed out in Feb. 2014) and could
be a local choice for Hillsborough County. Phil Hanegraaf (RS&H national planning market leader) noted that Winner and
Mandabach Campaigns is a national firm that specializes in ballot measure consulting and has been successful on other
transportation related ballot measures recently.
TBARTA Board Chairman Ronnie Duncan was involved early on in the GreenLight Pinellas effort but stepped down due to
oppositions claim that his involvement was a conflict of interest. He would be a good source of information from a
strategy standpoint.
Hope this helps. Let me know if you need anything else.
Thanks,
Mike
Michael J. Coleman, PE
Transportation Development
1715 N. Westshore Blvd., Suite 500
Tampa, FL 33607-3999
Phone: 813-636-2643 / Mobile: 813-240-9624
Michael.Coleman@rsandh.com
Visit our website at www.rsandh.com
Connect with RS&H on Facebook Twitter LinkedIn
__________
For: 4602
Page 1539 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1540 of 1954



Attachment Description: TED-PLG MEMORANDUM DATED OCTOBER 3, 2014 MERRILL
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1541 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1542 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1543 of 1954



Attachment Description: UPATE ON CONSULTANT SELECTION 10.2.14
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1544 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1545 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1546 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1547 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1548 of 1954



Attachment Description: USE OF DIRECT SELECT MEMO OF PB 9-20-12
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1549 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1550 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1551 of 1954



Attachment Description: VERIZON RECEIPT FROM COMMISSIONER SANDRA MURMAN
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1552 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1553 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1554 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1555 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1556 of 1954



Attachment Description: WORK ORDER 11.26.14 FOR 498K
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1557 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1558 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1559 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1560 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1561 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1562 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1563 of 1954



Attachment Description: WORK ORDER FROM SEPTEMBER 25, 2014 FOR 53K
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1564 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1565 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1566 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1567 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1568 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1569 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1570 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1571 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1572 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1573 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1574 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1575 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1576 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1577 of 1954



Attachment Description: WORK ORDER REVISION #3 GO HILLSBOROUGH MAY 6, 2015
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1578 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1579 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1580 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1581 of 1954


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Page 1582 of 1954


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Page 1584 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1585 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1586 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1587 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1588 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1589 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1590 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 8-13-14 - RE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1591 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1592 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 8-19-14 - RE HILLS CO-ADITIONAL UPDATE
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1593 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1594 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 7-28-14 - STRATEGIC COMM
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1595 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1596 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 7-29-14 - RE HILLS COUNTY
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1597 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1598 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1599 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 8-05-14 - RE PB FORMS
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1600 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1601 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1602 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 8-12-14 - RE AECOM REPORT ON LOCAL RAIL
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1603 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1604 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 8-13-14 - RE STRATEGIC COMM
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1605 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1606 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1607 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1608 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1609 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1610 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 8-20-14 - COUNTY TRANSPORTATION
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1611 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1612 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 8-21-14 - FW CALL
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1613 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1614 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 8-22-14 - RE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY TRANSPO
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1615 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1616 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1617 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 8-22-14 - FWD TO BETH FROM CLIFFORD
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1618 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1619 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 8-26-14 - FWD HILLBOROUGH COUNTY TRANSPO
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1620 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1621 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1622 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 8-26-14 - HILLS CO TED TRANSIT REFERENDUM
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1623 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1624 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 8-26-14 - RE ANY WORD FROM SCULLY CAPITOL
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1625 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1626 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 8-26-14 - RE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY TRANSPO
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1627 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1628 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1629 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 8-29-14 - FOR YOUR REVIEW AND USE
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1630 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1631 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 09-18-14- DRAFT TWO 2
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1632 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1633 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 9-02-14 - RE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY REFEREND
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1634 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1635 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1636 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 9-03-14 - RE HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SUPPORT
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1637 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1638 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1639 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1640 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 9-09-14 - NEWS PAPER STORY FROM AUGUST 12
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1641 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1642 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 9-11-14 HILLS TED - MTG MINUTES
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1643 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1644 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 9-17-14 - RE HILLSBOROUGH TED DRAFT SCOPE
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1645 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1646 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1647 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1648 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 9-17-14 - RE TLG TEAM
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1649 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1650 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1651 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 9-17-14 - RE WEB INTERFACE EXAMPLE
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1652 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1653 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1654 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 9-19-14 - RE FOLLOW UP
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1655 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1656 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1657 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1658 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 9-25-14 - HILLS PROCUREMENT
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1659 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1660 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 10-28-14 - FW PB GETTING PAID BIG TO HELP
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1661 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1662 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL 11-07-14 - RE CITIZENS FERRY COMMITTEE
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1663 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1664 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1665 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1666 of 1954



Attachment Description: PB EMAIL HILLSBOROUGH TED OUTLINE ATTACHMENT
Reference Number:

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For: 4602
Page 1668 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1669 of 1954



Attachment Description: COMM HAGANS PERSONAL EMAILS ACCOUNT
Reference Number:
From:
To:
Subject:
Date:
hagans@aol.com
Von der Osten, Barbara
Fwd: Corruption You Must Stop
Friday, October 16, 2015 1:14:58 PM
-----Original Message----From: Beth Leytham <bethleytham@theleythamgroup.com>

To: hagans <hagans@aol.com>
Sent: Tue, Oct 13, 2015 9:51 am
Subject: RE: Corruption You Must Stop
d',/

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Bet h Leyt ham
TheLeyt hamGroup
518 N. Tampa St reet , Suit e 310
Tampa, FL 33602
(813) 223-5951 (o)
(813) 245-1522 (c)
www.t heleyt hamgroup.com
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Where is this list coming from? Thx
-----Original Message----From: Hagan, Ken <HaganK@HillsboroughCounty.ORG>
To: hagans <hagans@aol.com>

Sent: Mon, Oct 12, 2015 6:32 pm
Subject: Fwd: Corruption You Must Stop
Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:
For: 4602
Page 1670 of 1954


From: "Len & Reggie Mead" <mead1720@gmail.com>
Date: October 12, 2015 at 6:01:11 PM EDT

To: "Hillsborough County Commissioner Ken Hagen"
<HaganK@HillsboroughCounty.ORG>
Subject: Corruption You Must Stop
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KDYHWRH[SUHVVVRPHDODUPEHFDXVHVXFKDGHILFLWFRXOGRQO\H[LVW
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:KDWLVFHUWDLQKRZHYHULVWKDWWKHUHLVQRVXFKWKLQJDVD
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For: 4602
Page 1671 of 1954


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From: Hagan, Ken [ mailto:HaganK@HillsboroughCounty.ORG]

Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2015 3:42 PM
To: 'mead1720@gmail.com'
Subject: RE: (WEB mail) - Corruption You Must Stop

Len,
Thanks for your email. I appreciate your comments regarding Hillsborough Countys effort
to address our $8 billion transportation deficit and apologize for the delay in responding.
While your concerns are valid, I want you to know that rail is not part of the plan and road
improvements make up approximately two thirds of the project list.
In any event, thanks again for sharing your concerns. Please do not hesitate to let me
know if I can ever be of service. Hope you have a great week.
Sincerely,
Ken Hagan
County Commissioner
District 5
For: 4602
Page 1672 of 1954


From: mead1720@gmail.com [mailto:mead1720@gmail.com]

Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2015 6:52 PM
To: Hagan, Ken
Cc: McGlocklin, Steve; Taylor, Jim
Subject: (WEB mail) - Corruption You Must Stop
Importance: High
The following Commissioner(s) received a direct copy of this email:

Commissioner Sandy Murman (District 1); Commissioner Victor Crist (District
2); Commissioner Les Miller (District 3); Commissioner Stacy White (District
4); Commissioner Ken Hagan (District 5); Commissioner Kevin Beckner
(District 6); Commissioner Al Higginbotham (District 7)
Date/Time Sent: 10/3/2015 6:52:01 PM
Name: Len Mead
Address: 356 Laurel Falls Dr
City, State Zip: Apollo Beach, FL 33572
Phone: (813) 812-6836
Email: mead1720@gmail.com
Subject: Corruption You Must Stop
Message: Dear Commissioners, Reporting in the press and local Television seems
to indicate the current rush to raise taxes to construct pie-in-the-sky rail and
transportation systems rather than fixing and improving existing roads and
highways is a tangled mess of possible deceptiveness, collusion and cronyism. It
looks like you are not representing expressed citizen needs, but rather colluding
with companies who would benefit financially from constructing unneeded new
rail and mass transit systems with a tax hike NOBODY wants. Attached are
specific steps you could implement to immediately "clear the air" and go back to
meeting existing needs of our roads and highways. Thank You, Len Mead
Attachments:
County Commissioners e-mail stop GO HILLSBOROUGH.docx
This email was automatically generated from:
https://webappsnet.hillsboroughcounty.org/Forms/BOCC/ContactCommissioners
For: 4602
Page 1673 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1674 of 1954



Attachment Description: COMM MURMAN PERSONAL ACCOUNT EMAILS 1
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1675 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1676 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1677 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1678 of 1954


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Page 1679 of 1954


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Page 1680 of 1954


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Page 1681 of 1954


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Page 1682 of 1954


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Page 1683 of 1954


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Page 1684 of 1954


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Page 1698 of 1954


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Page 1716 of 1954



Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1717 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1718 of 1954



Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1719 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1720 of 1954



Attachment Description: COMMISSIONER MURMAN'S EMAILS
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1721 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1722 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1723 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1724 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1725 of 1954


For: 4602
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For: 4602
Page 1727 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1728 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1729 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1730 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1731 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1732 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1733 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1734 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1735 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1736 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1737 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1738 of 1954


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For: 4602
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For: 4602
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For: 4602
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For: 4602
Page 1751 of 1954


For: 4602
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For: 4602
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Page 1754 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1755 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1756 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1757 of 1954


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Page 1758 of 1954


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Page 1759 of 1954


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Page 1760 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1761 of 1954


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Page 1762 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1763 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1764 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1765 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1766 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1767 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1768 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1769 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1770 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1771 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1772 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1773 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1774 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1775 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1776 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1777 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1778 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1779 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1780 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1781 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1782 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1783 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1784 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1785 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1786 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1787 of 1954



Attachment Description: EMAIL RECORDS PROVIDED BY BETH LEYTHAM
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1788 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1789 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1790 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1791 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1792 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1793 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1794 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1795 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1796 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1797 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1798 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1799 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1800 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1801 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1802 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1803 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1804 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1805 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1806 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1807 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1808 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1809 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1810 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1811 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1812 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1813 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1814 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1815 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1816 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1817 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1818 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1819 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1820 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1821 of 1954



Attachment Description: LOUIS BETZ 20140805112423
Reference Number:
For: 4602
Page 1822 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1823 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1824 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1825 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1826 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1827 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1828 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1829 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1830 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1831 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1832 of 1954



Attachment Description: DRAFT ELECTION MATRIX FOR HILLSBOROUGH 2015-2016
Reference Number:

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For: 4602
Page 1833 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1834 of 1954



Attachment Description: DRAFT TALKING POINTS FOR PLG
Reference Number:

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For: 4602
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For: 4602
Page 1836 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1837 of 1954



Attachment Description: EFFECTIVE COMMUNITY RELATIONS - PB
Reference Number:
Turning Community Relations into

Client Development
The Art of Becoming an Insider
For: 4602
Page 1838 of 1954


For: 4602
Page 1839 of 1954



Attachment Description: ENGAGEMENT OUTLINE RE HILLS TRANSPORATION
Reference Number:
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Attachment Description: HILLS TED SCOPE OF WORK DRAFT 4 - BL COMMENTS
Reference Number:
Hillsborough County Plan Support

TWO # 2- Scope of Work
__________________________________________________________________
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Parsons Brinckerhoff has created a proprietaryspecialized analysis tool that can be applied
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For: 4602
Page 1854 of 1954


The list of projects is NOT 50/50 - it's 25-30% roads, 70-75% transit. According to the last PLG meeting on 5/28, the
transit projects were supposed to be presented the June PLG meeting which was rescheduled for today? What
happened? No projects were presented today, only a 50K foot level nebulous public outreach and no one even asked
what the cost of that would be.
UHSRUW 1 like, 0 dislikes
OLNH
GLVOLNH
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In a very general sense, the PLG is functional and serving it's intended purpose to move us forward in this process.
Now it is time to sort out what will be done to improve transportation in this county. The AE Com report, glossed over
by the PLG and the media, tells us that this county is not likely to qualify for Federal Funds in support of rail for a
decade. Further, there is only one BRT corridor that may qualify for Fed funds. But there is an affordable effective
course open to us:
We need to invest in ATMS (Automatic Transportation Management Systems),
Invest in road capacity sufficient to make up some of the lost ground we have created by doing nothing for several
years - and get ourselves on a program that will keep pace with growth
expand current transit to increase ridership and mobility and
open up the market in this county for Uber, Lyft and other shared ride systems.
That course is what we can afford, and that course will gain the most ground in increased mobility for our citizens and
visitors.
UHSRUW
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there's nothing wrong with road capacity- perpetual construction is what causing the slow traffic and poor engineering
like malfunction junction and i4/i75/us301 interchange.
you can't have 3 roads merging within 1/2 mile and expect smooth flow. even though it's always promised to fix it.
never happens.
no one wants buses cause they don't go where and when people need them in this huge county
light rail? joke that's going to add to traffic congestion for 10 years of building it on the already established roads cars
use, will have to obey traffic signals like cars, and will never pay for itself so will need more taxes to continue
operation like the trolley and never fast enough like the trolley nor go where people want it.
UHSRUW
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For: 4602
Page 1855 of 1954


Keyw ord here
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For: 4602
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Page 1857 of 1954


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Lakeland
Manatee
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Polk
Sarasota
Tampa
318
Hillsborough Leaders Optimistic About Transit Ballot

Initiative in 2016

Jul 30, 2014
Pinellas and Polk Counties arent the only parts of the Tampa Bay region gearing up to overhaul
their transportation infrastructure to meet 21st Century needs. Officials in Hillsborough County
unveiled yesterday the first concepts for a proposal to put a referendum to voters in 2016 that would
use a one-penny sales tax to fund a massive expansion of public transportation in Hillsborough
County.
County Administrator Mike Merrill predicts that, under a best case scenario, Tampa Bay residents
will see light rail in Tampa within seven years of passing the referendum, putting the in-service date
For: 4602
Page 1858 of 1954


for the potential light rail line as close as 2023. The current concept for the route would see lines
linking Westshore to downtown Tampa, and downtown Tampa to the University of South Florida.
The Hillsborough Area Transit Authority (HART) would be restructured under the proposal,
expanding its scope of operations from overseeing bus service to making decisions on construction
and contracting.
County leaders have also formulated over 14 months a list of potential projects that could be funded
should the referendum pass, including increased bus service along N. Dale Mabry Highway near
Raymond James Stadium, improvements to the multi-use Bypass Canal Trail and a link that
connects east and west Tampa neighborhoods to the Riverwalk, and upgrading and replacing
bridges while widening and repaving roads in the county, and express bus service lanes. Projects
will be narrowed and prioritized based on public comment over the coming months.

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At Moving Hillsborough Forward's campaign headquarters during the returns and defeat of the
Hillsborough County transit referendum, Gary Sasso, chair of Moving Hillsborough Forward,
Patrick Leduc, with Metropolitan Planning Organization Citizen Advisory Committee, and
Mayor Pam Iorio talk while the results come in.
D,^
More than two-thirds of Florida voters Tuesday rejected a requirement for public approval of
changes to local comprehensive land use plans.
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The statewide ballot measure, known as Amendment 4, drew strong opposition from the real
estate and business community overall.
"Amendment 4 was an ill-conceived concept from the beginning, Greater Tampa Chamber of
Commerce President Bob Rohrlack said in a statement. Attracting new business to Florida is
essential, and Amendment 4 would have put a halt to any future job growth.
Proposed changes to the Florida Constitution require 60 percent voter approval, while local
referendums need only 50 percent approval.
In other business-related measures in Tuesdays election, Hillsborough County voters rejected a
plan to implement a 1-cent sales tax to fund transportation initiatives, including light rail, by
roughly 58 to 42 percent.
We are disappointed, but we will start working right away to help bring this before voters
again, Greater Tampa Chamber Chairman Chuck Sykes, president and chief executive officer of
Sykes Enterprises Inc., said in a statement.
Other leaders of the transit referendum including Tampa Mayor Pam Iorio, former U.S. Rep.
Jim Davis, Tampa Bay Partnership President and CEO Stuart Rogel and Gary Sasso, president
and CEO of the law firm Carlton Fields also vowed to bring voters another proposal in the
future, but they refused to say whether that would be as soon as 2012.
Bob Clifford, executive director of the Tampa Bay Area Regional Transportation Authority,
which has developed a transportation master plan, said the agency wants to study the election
results to help other counties learn from this experience as they move forward with their own
funding initiatives.
Pinellas and Pasco county leaders have talked of having a transit referendum in the coming
years.
Patrick Gittard of the Florida Public Interest Research Group suggested that pro-transit leaders
consider funding mechanisms other than sales tax. He suggested tapping rental car taxes, parking
taxes, land value capture programs, high-congestion tolls, storm water fees and real estate
transfer taxes.
Hillsborough voters did agree to an economic development measure that will waive property
taxes for new and expanding business. The measure passed by nearly 64 to 36 percent.
In Polk County, voters overwhelmingly rejected a proposed half-cent sales tax to improve bus
service, while an effort to waive property taxes for new and expanding businesses fell short by
499 votes.
It was unclear as of 9:30 a.m. Wednesday whether the margin of less than 1 percent would
trigger a recount. A similar effort to waive property tax in Polk failed in 2008 but has won
support in more than two-dozen Florida counties.
Supporters have said they need the measure just to remain competitive with those counties.
At the top of Tuesdays ballot, Republican Marco Rubio won the U.S. Senate race in Florida,
beating Florida governor Charlie Crist, elected governor as a Republican and running for Senate
as an Independent, and Kendrick Meek, the Democratic candidate.
Crist, whose background includes serving in the Florida Senate and as Floridas attorney general,
has a Tampa Bay area history that includes high school in St. Petersburg and private practice
with the law firm Wood and Crist.
It only became clear Wednesday morning that businessman Rick Scott was elected governor.
Outgoing Florida Chief Financial Officer Alex Sink, who has a Bay area connection as a resident
of Thonotosassa, conceded defeat.
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November Election Highlight

TRANSIT REFERENDUM IN HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, FL
CFTE is monitoring more than 20 potential transportation measures for the November ballot.
Some communities are asking voters for financing renewals or small tax increases for existing
systems. Hillsborough County, FL will be asking voters to support a plan to make major
transportation improvements for the region. Approved for the ballot in May, the referendum
seeks to create a 1% sales surtax, with 75% of the revenue dedicated to transit and 25% to road
and bridge repairs. The transit funding would be used to double bus service and build the first
segments of a commuter rail system. Revenue would be placed in a dedicated trust fund to
ensure that it does not get diverted to other projects. The tax is expected to bring in $160 million
to $200 million annually by increasing the current sales tax rate from 7% to 8%.
Advocates are highlighting the importance of improving local transportation options now in
order to prepare for a new high-speed rail line connecting Tampa with Orlando. As part of its
commitment to establishing high-speed rail in the United States, the Obama Administration has
recently approved $1.25 billion in federal funding for the Florida project. The referendum is
supported by a wide variety of groups in the community including several local Chambers of
Commerce, Tampa Bay Builders Association, Greater Tampa Association of Realtors, Sierra
Club Tampa Bay, Florida Coalition of Rail Passengers and the Tampa Bay Area Regional
Transportation Authority.

By John Horsley
NACo Past President 19861987
(Note: This is the second installment of a two-part series that looks at how population growth, commuting and
employment patterns have reshaped the need for spending on transportation in the nations counties, and how
these most significant players in the intergovernmental system are meeting the challenge.)
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Photo courtesy of Tampa Hillsborough Expressway Authority
Pasco County, Fla. commissioners are funding a plan to build 33 miles of elevated toll ways similar to the
Selmon Expressway (pictured above) under operation in nearby Hillsborough County.

Local Government Transportation Ballot Measures, especially those for transit improvements, are generally
meeting with success. According to the Washington D.C.-based Center for Transportation Excellence, in 2012,
17 states placed 62 transportation ballot measures before the voters. Forty-nine won and 13 lost for a success
rate of 79 percent. In 2013, eight states placed 15 measures on the ballot. Eleven won and 4 lost, for a success
rate of 73 percent.
Below are some examples of what counties are doing in several states to meet their needs.

Texas in part, has gone to tolling to meet its metropolitan traffic needs.
In the Dallas-Tarrant County Metroplex, the North Texas Toll Way Authority operates six expressways now and
has several others under construction valued in the billions. The Harris County Toll Road Authority
operates five toll roads in the Houston area and has others planned. The Fort Bend County Toll Road Authority
operates two toll roads.
Tolling authorities have been established to operate four additional toll roads, and seven regional mobility
authorities have been created to expedite the approval of toll facilities in other parts of the state.
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El Paso County, Texas is meeting its needs in other ways. On Dec. 24, 2013, the El Paso County
Commissioners Court approved more than $400 million in transportation improvement projects. Funding comes
from an increase in vehicle registration fees, the Texas Department of Transportation (DOT) and
Transportation Reinvestment Zones. The projects include $263 million in new construction in the city of El Paso
and $125.5 million outside the city limits.

California, in part, has gone to voter-approved sales tax measures to fund transportation. Between 1984 and
1992, 18 self-help counties in California passed local transportation ballot measures to increase their local
sales taxes by one-half cent. To succeed, these measures had to win by a two-thirds majority. Since that
period, many of these urban counties have gone back to their voters and won approval for a second round of
projects.
California has also turned to tolls to fund projects in several of its largest counties. Four toll facilities are being
operated in Orange County by its Transportation Corridor agencies. Two toll roads are being operated in San
Diego County the I-15 Express Lanes and the South Bay Expressway and more are planned. Two toll
ways are being operated in Los Angeles County Metro Express Lanes on Routes 10 and 110, and in the
San Francisco Bay Area there are five major toll bridges including the Golden Gate Bridge, as well as the I-680
Express Lanes.

Florida counties, in partnership with the Florida DOT, are meeting their needs in several ways. Brevard County,
for example, is pledging revenues generated by a local option fuel tax to fund projects using $90 million in
revenue bonds. Alachua County has issued $60 million in public improvement revenue bonds, which are
secured by a pledge of the countys share of its local option half-cent sales tax.
In Hillsborough County, the Tampa-Hillsborough Expressway Authority uses tolls to operate the Selmon
Expressway, Brandon Parkway and Meridian Avenue. It is also studying the concept of Bus Toll Lanes. The
Pasco County commissioners passed a resolution last December to continue work on plans to build 33 miles of
elevated expressway funded through tolls, to connect U.S. 19 with U.S. 301. The project, possibly to be built as
a public-private partnership, would be similar to the elevated Selmon Expressway already in operation in
nearby Hillsborough County. Movement of traffic around the urban areas of Polk County has been improved by
the construction of the Polk County Parkway (U.S. 570) a toll facility operated by the Florida Department of
Transportation.

In 2006, Horry County (Myrtle Beach) voters authorized a one-cent sales tax for seven years that will generate
$425 million and fund 15 road projects including the completion of the U.S. 17 Bypass and the S.C. 707
Overpass.
In the months ahead, NACo plans to share success stories from other counties on how they are finding ways to
fund the transportation needs of their communities.
,
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Attachment Description: HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY TED OUTLINE PB ATTACHMENT
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Attachment Description: HILLSBOROUGH LETTER PB ATTACHMENT
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Attachment Description: HILLSBOROUGH TED - PRE-SCOPE MEETING MINUTES
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The meeting minutes contained herein represents the authors understanding of the discussions that
occurred during the meeting. Any attendee who does not agree with the summary or can offer additional
information that should be noted within these minutes, please contact Brian Bollas at (813) 520-4350 or
bollas@pbworld.com

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Attachment Description: SCOPE OF STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS- PB ATTACHMENT
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Attachment Description: STRATEGIC COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT QUESTIONS
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Attachment Description: HDR 1ST EMAIL
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https://zmail.hcso.tampa.fl.us/zimbra/h/printmessage?id=35934&part=2&...
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Matt I have asked Larry Scully to contact you on Monday to gather
information we discussed
John
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 22, 2014, at 5:31 PM, "Ryan, Matt" <Matt.Ryan@hdrinc.com>
wrote:
>
> John,
>
> I left you a message at your office, but I do not have your mobile
number.
>
> Along with a small HDR team, I can meet with you on Monday to discuss
your needs.
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> Please call my mobile to discuss (704-756-0972).
>
> Thanks,
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> Matt
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John and Larry,
Good afternoon. Attached is a quick two-page summary that highlights some of HDRs experience in leading
and participating in local transportation referendums. Given your quick needs, I wanted to illustrate that we
have ORFDODQGQDWLRQDO H[SHULHQFH in working with communities such as &KDUORWWH1&; $XVWLQ
7;; 'HQYHU&2; 3KRHQL[$=; and -DFNVRQYLOOH)/.
Equally important, you have my personal commitment to leverage HDRs EHVWDQGPRVWTXDOLILHG
WDOHQW to ensure DFOHDUDQGLQFOXVLYHSURFHVV that will hopefully produce a big success for our
County.
We are ready to get to work. Please call me with any questions.
Thanks for the opportunity,
Matt
0DWW5\DQ
Area Manager
+'5
5426 Bay Center Drive, Suite 400
Tampa, FL 33609-3444
D 813-282-2362 M 704-756-0972
matt.ryan@hdrinc.com
KGULQFFRPIROORZXV

+LOOVERURXJK&RXQW\5HIHUHQGXP4XDOV9BDSGI
0%
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Attachment Description: HDR 3RD EMAIL
Reference Number:
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6WHYHQ%ORXQW6WHYHQ%ORXQW#KGULQFFRP!
Good morning,
I spoke with John Lyons, Hillsborough County Public Works Director, about the Hillsborough County
Transportation Referendum support (see email below). John initially lamented that the County only has $5M
for resurfacing in next years budget.
First, thank you for your support to help us prepare a solid package. We looked good and opened some eyes
in the County. Second, the County has chosen PB to help them prepare their transportation referendum
priorities, message, etc.
John stated that the Countys $75M South County WWTP expansion project (where we were the designer and
currently providing construction administration services) gave him SDXVH in selecting HDR and that WKHUH
DUHVWLOOFKDOOHQJHVLQWKH+'5VKRS. Please keep this feedback confidential (no need to share
throughout the County).
This is important feedback for several reasons. First, I am glad that John was comfortable giving me that
direct feedback. He also said that Mike Williams, Hills Co. Transportation, was very complimentary of HDR.
Second, it is a reminder that our clients (e.g., Counties, FDOT, etc.) senior management talk frequently and
that our performance in one department/district directly affect others.
1 of 3
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Zimbra
I know that we will still have opportunities to sponsor the referendum in the next year and a half, so we will
move forward.
Matt
0DWW5\DQ
Area Manager
+'5
Tampa, FL 33609-3444
D 813-282-2362 M 704-756-0972
matt.ryan@hdrinc.com
KGULQFFRPIROORZXV
)URP5\DQ0DWW
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.HQW
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Folks,
Good afternoon. Please see below and attached our response to Hillsborough County, FL, about potentially
helping them with a local transportation referendum for 2016. We are way out front on this one and I will keep
you apprised if we make it to the speed round of final selection.
I have also left voice messages for John Lyons (Hillsborough County Public Works Director) and Larry Scully
(County advocate with Scully Capital in Washington, D.C.).
Thanks for the support,
Matt
0DWW5\DQ
Area Manager
+'5
Tampa, FL 33609-3444
D 813-282-2362 M 704-756-0972
PDWWU\DQ#KGULQFFRP
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Zimbra
John and Larry,

Good afternoon. Attached is a quick two-page summary that highlights some of HDRs experience in leading
and participating in local transportation referendums. Given your quick needs, I wanted to illustrate that we
have ORFDODQGQDWLRQDO H[SHULHQFH in working with communities such as &KDUORWWH1&; $XVWLQ
7;; 'HQYHU&2; 3KRHQL[$=; and -DFNVRQYLOOH)/.
Equally important, you have my personal commitment to leverage HDRs EHVWDQGPRVWTXDOLILHG
WDOHQW to ensure DFOHDUDQGLQFOXVLYHSURFHVV that will hopefully produce a big success for our
County.
We are ready to get to work. Please call me with any questions.
Thanks for the opportunity,
Matt
0DWW5\DQ
Area Manager
+'5
Tampa, FL 33609-3444
D 813-282-2362 M 704-756-0972
PDWWU\DQ#KGULQFFRP
KGULQFFRPIROORZXV
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Attachment Description: HNTB LETTER TO SELECTION TEAM
Reference Number:
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&DSLWDOFDQQRWJXDUDQWHHWKDWWKLVPHVVDJHKDVQRWEHHQPRGLILHGLQWUDQVLWDQGWKLVPHVVDJHRQLWVRZQVKRXOGQRWEHYLHZHGDV
FRQWUDFWXDOO\ELQGLQJ7KLVPHVVDJHDQGDQ\ILOHVWUDQVPLWWHGZLWKLWDUHFRQILGHQWLDODQGLQWHQGHGVROHO\IRUWKHXVHRIWKHDGGUHVVHH,I\RX
KDYHUHFHLYHGWKLVPHVVDJHLQHUURUSOHDVHQRWLI\WKHVHQGHUDQGGHVWUR\\RXUFRSLHVRIWKHPHVVDJHDQGDQ\DWWDFKHGILOHV
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LQGLYLGXDOO\VXSSRUWLYHRIVXFKFDPSDLJQLQLWLDWLYHVZHGRQRWUXQWKHFDPSDLJQV
WKHPVHOYHVDVZHDUHQRWSROLWLFDOFRQVXOWDQWV2XUZRUNLVRQWKHSUHFDPSDLJQ
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Attachment Description: PB LETTER TO SELECTION TEAM
Reference Number:
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Attachment Description: RSH LETTER TO MIKE WILLIAMS
Reference Number:
From: Coleman, Michael [mailto:Michael.Coleman@rsandh.com]

Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 11:29 AM
To: Williams, Michael <WilliamsM@HillsboroughCounty.ORG>
Cc: Hanegraaf, Phil <Phil.Hanegraaf@rsandh.com>; Sill, Ronald <Ron.Sill@rsandh.com>
Subject: Hillsborough County TED efforts
Mike,
I left you a phone message Friday afternoon saying that RS&H is not equipped to run a ballot initiative campaign, but we
could provide technical support and services such video production as weve done in the past if you need it. Tucker Hall
was the company performing the PR for the GreenLight Pinellas ballot initiative (they bowed out in Feb. 2014) and could
be a local choice for Hillsborough County. Phil Hanegraaf (RS&H national planning market leader) noted that Winner and
Mandabach Campaigns is a national firm that specializes in ballot measure consulting and has been successful on other
transportation related ballot measures recently.
TBARTA Board Chairman Ronnie Duncan was involved early on in the GreenLight Pinellas effort but stepped down due to
oppositions claim that his involvement was a conflict of interest. He would be a good source of information from a
strategy standpoint.
Hope this helps. Let me know if you need anything else.
Thanks,
Mike
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Narrative Text Report # 1

Document: DETECTIVE FOLLOW UP
Author: 222593 - Portalatin, Samuel V
Related date/time: Oct-28-2015 (Wed.) 1600
On September 22, 2015, I was assigned to assist Corporal Charles P. Hollis (ABN #5603) with the
GoHillsborough Investigation. For details as to my involvement in this investigation, please refer to the master
report.
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Assigned to: 5603 - Hollis, Charles P Rank: Patrol Corporal
Capacity: Investigate/Case Manager Org unit: Professional Standards Section PST00
Assigned on: Sep-22-2015 (Tue.) 906 by: 5603 - Hollis, Charles P
Report due on: Mar-20-2016 (Sun.)
Submitted on: Jan-29-2016 (Fri.) 1205
Checked by: 3655 - St John, Thomas M
Approved on: Feb-02-2016 (Tue.) by: 3655 - St John, Thomas M

Document: INVESTIGATION
Author: 5603 - Hollis, Charles P
Subject: GO HILLSBOROUGH INVESTIGATION
Related date/time: Sep-22-2015 (Tue.) 900
INTRODUCTION
On September 21, 2015, the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office (HCSO) received a written request for
investigation from Hillsborough County Administrator Michael Merrill (See attached letter from Mr. Merrill to
Sheriff David Gee). In the correspondence, Mr. Merrill requested that the HCSO examine the procurement of
professional consulting services for transportation engineering and public outreach in connection with Hillsborough
County's GoHillsborough transportation initiative, and the award of a contract for those services to Parsons
Brinckerhoff (PB) and subcontractors selected by PB. Mr. Merrill explained that Hillsborough County government
requested the HCSO's independent investigation due to allegations of impropriety which had emerged concerning
the vendor selection process. Pursuant to Mr. Merrill's request, the HCSO initiated a criminal investigation.
INVESTIGATION
On September 23, 2015, HCSO Corporal Charles Hollis ABN 5603 and Detective Samuel Portalatin ABN 222593
(Investigators) met with Mr. Merrill who explained he requested the investigation to determine whether the
procurement and contract awarded to PB met all requirements of Florida State Statutes, County Commission
procurement policies, and State of Florida ethics rules. Mr. Merrill explained the integrity of the process related
to the awarding of the PB contract and the subsequent subcontract to The Leytham Group were challenged by
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allegations of impropriety. The allegations were made through a series of Channel 10 News reports, and also scrutiny
from citizens. Mr. Merrill requested that three questions be included within the HCSO investigation:
1.
2.
3.
Was the procurement process regarding the PB selection fair and legal?
Was the contract obtained "behind closed doors"?
Is Beth Leytham a lobbyist and was she acting as a lobbyist for PB?
During the course of the investigation, numerous documents were requested from Hillsborough County, City of
Tampa, City of Temple Terrace, City of Plant City, members of the Policy Leadership Group (PLG), Parsons
Brinckerhoff, and Beth Leytham. All requested documents were provided to Investigators in a timely manner.
The documents included emails, text messages, contracts, and other correspondence related to GoHillsborough
or county business. Regarding Ms. Leytham and The Leytham Group, the law firm of Hill Ward Henderson and
attorney Robert Schimberg, representing Ms. Leytham, provided pertinent documents to Investigators. Records
requested from PB were made through the law firm of Greenberg Traurig and attorney Greg Kehoe. Mr. Kehoe
made arrangements for Investigators to review all related documents at their law firm. Copies of any pertinent
documents were retained by Investigators.
To assist in the investigation, the HCSO contracted the services of Robert O'Neill, Managing Director with Freeh
Group International Solutions; a global risk management firm. Mr. O'Neill is a former United States Attorney for
the Middle District of Florida, who has investigated several public corruption cases (See attached report authored
by Mr. O'Neill).
Investigators also met with Assistant State Attorneys Ada Carmona and Sheri Maxim on several occasions to keep
the State Attorney's Office updated on the progress of the investigation. Investigators also obtained her legal advice
regarding possible violations of criminal law.
The HCSO investigation was divided into three parts. Part One examined procurement processes and policies set
forth by Hillsborough County for the awarding of contracts generally and for the PB contract for the transportation
initiative specifically. Additionally, the Consultants' Competitive Negotiations Act (CCNA) process used to
select PB was scrutinized for legality and fairness. Investigators also reviewed an assessment completed by the
Director for County Audit, Peggy Caskey in January of 2015, while she was employed at the Hillsborough County
Clerk's Office. Ms. Caskey examined the process by which PB was chosen for GoHillsborough because there
were citizen concerns (See attached Preliminary Assessment-PB). HCSO Investigators completed Part One of
the investigation assisted through contracted services provided by Moore Stephens Lovelace (MSL), CPAs and
Advisors in Orlando, Florida (See attached Engagement Letter from MSL).
With Part Two, HCSO Investigators (Detective Trent Clark ABN 173949 joined the investigation on October 1,
2015) looked for violations of criminal law, public records and Sunshine laws, Hillsborough County ordinances
and state laws concerning lobbyist/lobbying. The production and preservation of public records and the response to
public record requests was assessed. Investigators looked at the relationships between Ms. Leytham and members of
the PLG, as well as Hillsborough County employees. Investigators also looked to see if those relationships amounted
to improper influence or benefit, specifically on the selection of PB for the transportation initiative, and with The
Leytham Group as a sub-contractor. Along with this part of the investigation, 2015 Florida State Statutes considered
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included: Chapter 119 and 286 (Public records and Sunshine law), Chapter 287 (Procurement of Personal Property
and Services), Chapter 838 (Bribery; Misuse of Public Office), and Chapter 112.3215 (Lobbying). Hillsborough
County Lobbyist Ordinance 07-8 was also assessed. Email and text message records from early in the procurement
process in 2011 through 2014, when the Transportation for Economic Development /Policy Leadership Group
(TED/PLG) directed Mr. Merrill to choose a transportation expert for the project were obtained. On October 13,
2015, Investigators subpoenaed the cell phone records for Ms. Leytham from Verizon (See attached Subpoena and
Phone records). Senior Criminal Intelligence Analyst, Candace Perez ABN 216591, reviewed and analyzed the
Verizon billing statements and call detail records for the time frame of January 7, 2012, through October 12, 2015.
After seeing the pattern of communication specifically around the PB selection timeframe, Investigators attempted
to obtain any deleted text messages from the cellphones of Ms. Leytham, Commissioners Ken Hagan and Sandra
Murman, and Mayor Bob Buckhorn. Investigators asked each person if they still possessed the cellphone they used
during the 2014 time period. All four advised they had upgraded their cellphones, and no longer possessed them.
Commissioner Murman provided a receipt (See attached Verizon receipt).
Part Three of the investigation was initiated to address Mr. Merrill's request that the HCSO determine whether
violations of State of Florida ethics laws had occurred within the GoHillsborough procurement processes. During
the interview process, Investigators asked questions related to ethics and whether there were any concerns. However,
the HCSO does not have the constitutional authority to conclude whether ethics laws were violated. Florida State
Statute 112.320 states "Commission on Ethics; purpose. There is created a Commission on Ethics, the purpose of
which is to serve as guardian of the standards of conduct for the officers and employees of the state, and of a county,
city, or other political subdivision of the state, as defined in this part, and to serve as the independent commission
provided for in s. 8(f), Art. II of the State Constitution."
During this investigation, The Florida Commission on Ethics (The Commission) received several ethics complaints
regarding Commissioners Hagan and Murman, and Mayor Buckhorn. As such, allegations of possible ethics
violations will be investigated by The Commission following the conclusion of this case.
Investigators spoke to Sharon Calvert by phone on November 16, 2015, and met with Sam Rashid at 2008 E. 8th Ave
on December 2, 2015. Both have been outspoken about the GoHillsborough process and the hiring of PB and Ms.
Leytham. Investigators asked if they had facts to support their claims and allegations, but they had none to provide.
During the investigation, a specific timeline was established using cell phone records, text message communication,
and email history:
TIMELINE DURING AUGUST 2014
August 8, 2014, at 10:50 AM - Beth Leytham calls Mike Merrill for two (2) minutes.
August 8, 2014, at 12:19 PM - Mike Merrill texts Beth Leytham about her message and will call her after 4PM.
August 8, 2014, at 5:18 PM - Mike Merrill calls Beth Leytham for 23 minutes.
August 9, 2014, at 7:00 AM - Beth Leytham texts Lucia Garsys about her phone call with Mike Merrill.
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August 9, 2014, at 2:42 PM - Mike Merrill texts Commissioner Murman confirming the meeting he had with
Adam Goodman on August 8, 2014.
August 11, 2014, at 12:53 PM - Beth Leytham emails Bob Clifford regarding the call with Mike Merrill.
August 12, 2014, at 1:05 PM - Commissioner Murman calls Beth Leytham for three (3) minutes.
August 12, 2014, at 1:07 PM - Commissioner Murman calls Beth Leytham for four (4) minutes.
August 12, 2014, at 1:11 PM - Beth Leytham emails Commissioner Murman a Hillsborough Transportation
Engagement Outline.
August 12, 2014, at approximately 1:30 PM - TED/PLG meeting held. Comments made by Commissioner
Murman appear to be from the outline provided to her by Ms. Leytham.
August 13, 2014, at 3:24 PM - Beth Leytham texts Mike Merrill about contacting editorial writers.
August 13, 2014, at 6:06 PM - Mike Merrill texts Commissioner Murman about a message she left to contact
editorial writers.
August 15, 2014, at 2:20 PM - Commissioner Murman texts Mike Merrill about the urgency needed for getting
the GoHillsborough transportation consultant hired.
August 19, 2014, at 9:03 AM - Beth Leytham calls Commissioner Murman for 18 minutes.
August 19, 2014, at 9:29 AM - Beth Leytham texts Mike Merrill about speaking to Ken and Sandy in reference to
transportation and communication. Before the text, there were numerous other phone calls between Beth Leytham
and Commissioner Murman and Beth Leytham and Commissioner Hagan.
August 19, 2014, at 5:01 PM - Commissioner Murman calls Beth Leytham for 40 minutes.
August 19, 2014, at 6:06 PM - Beth Leytham calls Bob Clifford for 17 minutes
August 19, 2014, at 6:44 PM - Bob Clifford emails George Walton about his previous phone call with Beth
Leytham and to expect a call from the county regarding GoHillsborough.
August 20, 2014, at 11:33 AM - Beth Leytham emails Bob Clifford and George Walton about one of them getting
a call from the county. She also sends them the same transportation outline she sent to Commissioner Murman on
August 12, 2014.
August 22, 2014, at 12:42 PM - Bob Clifford emails Larry Scully about GoHillsborough.
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August 22, 2014, at 12:46 PM - Michael DeMent with HNTB emails Larry Scully about GoHillsborough.
August 22, 2014, at 1:46 PM - Sandy Murman texts Mike Merrill about not picking HDR.
August 22, 2014, at 2:05 PM - Bob Clifford emails Beth Leytham a copy of what was submitted to Larry Scully
for GoHillsborough. Responding emails from Beth Leytham about the selection committee.
August 25, 2014, at 11:29 AM - Michael Coleman of RS&H emails Mike Williams about GoHillsborough and
declining involvement due to not being equipped for the campaign.
August 26, 2014, at 3:17 PM - Matt Ryan with HDR emails John Lyons and Larry Scully and submits experience
portfolio for GoHillsborough.
August 26, 2014, at 4:49 PM - George Walton sends email to Bob Clifford about receiving call from county and
being selected for the GoHillsborough project.
August 26, 2014, at 5:02 PM - Bob Clifford forwards the email above to Beth Leytham.
On August 26, 2014, between 4:46 PM and 8:32 PM there were multiple phone calls between Beth Leytham and
Bob Clifford, and Beth Leytham and Commissioner Murman, and also a 19 minute phone call when Beth Leytham
called Commissioner Hagan.
INVESTIGATION SUMMARY
- 38 interviews
- Reviewed approximately 493,000 county / city e-mails (tens of thousands of attachments)
- Reviewed approximately 10,000 Parsons Brinckerhoff emails, attachments, and documents
- Reviewed hundreds of text message communication records
- Reviewed Preliminary Assessment by Peggy Caskey, Director of County Audit
- Reviewed Financial Disclosure Files for each government official involved
- Reviewed all content on GoHillsborough and Leytham Group websites
- Reviewed hours of TED/PLG and BOCC meeting minutes and videos
- Reviewed all lobbyist registration forms for Hillsborough County from 2010-2014
- Reviewed and compiled 70 news articles pertaining to GoHillsborough
- Reviewed Beth Leytham's phone records specifically between August 2014 to September 2014
- Review conducted by CPA William Blend, Moore Stephens and Lovelace
- Review conducted by Robert O'Neill, Freeh Group International Solutions
NOTE: The GoHillsborough report contains a number of attachments including emails, text messages,
memorandums, contracts, phone records, transcribed interviews, audio recordings, a Powerpoint presentation, and
other related documents. There were other documents obtained during the investigation determined not to be
relevant to GoHillsborough, however these documents will be retained at the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office.
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HISTORY
NOTE: Investigators developed an understanding of the environment prior to PB being selected for the
transportation initiative.The transportation initiative became GoHillsborough after the selection of PB. Prior to the
selection, the initiative was referred to as Transportation for Economic Development (TED) and has also been
synonymously labeled with the PLG. For simplicity in this report, the transportation initiative will be referred to
as GoHillsborough and the PLG will be referred to as TED/PLG.
In 2010, Hillsborough County Commissioners approved a measure to allow Hillsborough County residents the
opportunity to vote on whether to raise the county sales tax by one (1) cent (tax referendum) for transportation.
The measure was placed on the November 2010 ballot. The measure failed with 41.89% voting in support and
58.11% voting against the referendum. Prior to approving the measure, a transportation committee was formed, and
comprised of county and city elected officials to look at transportation needs, but the elected officials were allowed
to have representatives attend the meeting in their place. The majority of elected officials used a representative and
did not attend the meetings. This resulted in poor communication, lack of organization, direction and leadership,
and lack of community support. Although the measure failed, transportation needs remained.
In 2013, Mr. Merrill formed the TED/PLG group for the purpose of exploring transportation needs in Hillsborough
County, and potential methods of funding, to include a sales tax referendum. The TED/PLG included all seven (7)
county commissioners, three (3) city mayors, and the Director of Hart.
-Commissioner Kevin Beckner
-Commissioner Victor Crist
-Commissioner Ken Hagan
-Commissioner Al Higginbotham (replaced Sharpe for county-wide seat)
-Commissioner Lesley Miller
-Commissioner Sandy Murman
-Commissioner Mark Sharpe (left office November 2014 after his term expired)
-Commissioner Stacy White (replaced Higginbotham)
-Mayor Bob Buckhorn
-Mayor Frank Chillura
-Mayor Rick Lott
-Hart Director Mike Suarez (Tampa City Councilman)
The meetings were facilitated by Mr. Merrill and consultant Herb Marlowe, and were attended by all members
(no representatives). The first meeting took place on May 22, 2013, and meetings were generally held monthly,
open to the public, were audio and video recorded, and the minutes were transcribed. All meetings are available at
www.hillsboroughcounty.org. Since the initial meeting until August 12, 2014, all public outreach efforts related to
the transportation initiative were handled by Mr. Merrill and his staff.
On July 29, 2014, Mr. Merrill held a media briefing to "scroll" out a list of transportation needs compiled since the
inception of the TED/PLG. Mr. Merrill referred to this as the Comprehensive Mobility Proposal (Proposal). Also
on July 29, 2014, Mr. Merrill sent a memorandum to the TED/PLG members about the agenda for the upcoming
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August 12, 2014, meeting. The memorandum indicated Mr. Merrill wanted to move forward with a recommended
plan for public engagement (with Board approval) for "the beginning of an extensive community outreach effort
to get input and suggestions on the Proposal from residents and businesses." The memorandum also indicated Mr.
Merrill would meet with each TED/PLG member individually for a briefing about the upcoming meeting (See
attached memorandum dated July 29, 2014, from Mike Merrill to the TED/PLG).
On August 12, 2014, the TED/PLG meeting was held. During the meeting, TED/PLG members unanimously
directed Mr. Merrill to engage a firm in the private sector with transportation experience to assist with the
GoHillsborough transportation initiative (See attachment with August TED/PLG meeting minutes). During
the meeting, Mr. Merrill explained the Proposal or "scroll" list needed to be prioritized, costs determined, and
community support established. Mr. Merrill stated the need to "rely on the experts we hire to help us." There was
a sense of urgency stated during the meeting to select a firm quickly because of the potential referendum aspect.
Criteria was established for the type of firm to be engaged:
1.
2.
3.
4.
National firm
Transportation expert / experience
Has a local presence in the community
Success with prior tax referendums
Following the meeting, Mr. Merrill formed a Selection Team for the firm selection process. The three member
team was:
1. John Lyons-Hillsborough County Director of Public Works (Professional Engineer)
2. Mike Williams-Hillsborough County Engineer and Director of Transportation Planning and Development
3. Larry Scully-Consultant with Hillsborough County for 20 years (Public/Private partnership)
*Lucia Garsys, Chief of Infrastructure and Development, was assigned by Mr. Merrill to supervise the Selection
Team's progress.
The Selection Team had two (2) options based on the criteria established from the TED/PLG meeting:
1.
Conduct a new procurement

-Could take 4-10 months
-More money invested
-New pool of firms
-Least efficient
2.
Utilize a firm already under contract "Direct Select" (if criteria is met)
-Firm already procured using CCNA guidelines
-Saves time and money
The Selection Team decided to look at the pool of engineering firms already under contract since 2012 to establish
if any of the firms met the criteria. The firms under contract since 2012 were selected during the following process:
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On May 31, 2011, Mike Williams submitted a memorandum to the Department of Procurement Services to
initiate procurement under the Consultants' Competitive Negotiation Act (CCNA) for miscellaneous professional
engineering services (See attached memorandum dated May 31, 2011, from Mr. Williams).
During the procurement, fifty-three (53) firms submitted proposals. The firms were ranked using a detailed points
system and on February 29, 2012, the top ten (10) firms were determined (See attached rankings list of the 53
firms). On June 6, 2012, the ten (10) firms were signed to two (2) year contracts under the Public Works Department
for Professional Engineering Services (See attached Agenda Item Cover Sheet dated June 6, 2012). The ten (10)
firms were ranked as follows:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
HNTB Corporation (HNTB)

DRMP
Reynolds Smith and Hills (RS&H)
Parsons Brinckerhoff (PB)
ICON Consulting Group
TBE Group
Bayside Engineering
Faller, Davis and Associates
HDR Engineering (HDR)
Wilson Miller
On June 4, 2014, the contracts for the ten (10) firms were extended an additional two (2) years (See attached
Administrative Renewal form dated June 4, 2014).
When looking at the ten (10), the Selection Team of Lyons, Williams, and Scully determined four (4) of the firms
met the established criteria. The four (4) firms were:
1.
2.
3.
4.
HNTB
RS&H
PB
HDR
During the selection process, the firms were contacted by the Selection Team. Mike Coleman of RS&H spoke with
Mike Williams and declined to participate as they were "not equipped to run a ballot initiative campaign." Matt
Ryan of HDR spoke with Larry Scully and John Lyons about participating and submitted a resume of the firm's
experience. HDR was eliminated from consideration because of "challenges in the HDR shop" related to a waste
water treatment plant expansion project with the county. Also, the Selection Team was not as impressed with the
resume submitted by HDR as compared with the other remaining firm's content and responsiveness. HNTB was
currently still involved in the Greenlight Pinellas tax referendum process and was eliminated. PB was recommended
based on their work product and meeting the established criteria set by the TED/PLG. The recommendation was
provided to Mr. Merrill and PB was selected.
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On September 5, 2014, Mr. Lyons submitted a memorandum to Mitch Ramos, Director of Fiscal and Support
Services, requesting PB be "direct selected" for the GoHillsborough transportation initiative (See attached Direct
Select memorandum dated September 5, 2014).
On September 25, 2014, work order #PWGC20140011 was approved for PB in the amount of $53,234.40 (See
attached Work Order from September 25, 2014).
On October 3, 2014, Mr. Merrill sent a memorandum to the TED/PLG members updating them on the consultant
selection and confirming PB was selected (See attached TED/PLG memorandum dated October 3, 2014 from
Mike Merrill).
On October 21, 2014, PB was unanimously approved by the TED/PLG to continue work on the GoHillsborough
transportation initiative (See attached Minutes from October 21, 2014 TED/PLG meeting).
CONCLUSION
Part One: HCSO Investigators found no evidence to support allegations the selection of PB was influenced or
directed improperly in any manner. The assessment completed by Ms. Caskey showed no material concerns
regarding the CCNA process and selection of PB. Also, the independent CPA consulting services provided by
William Blend of Moore Stephens Lovelace were consistent with HCSO Investigators' findings in that Mr. Blend
concluded he "did not find any violation of state law or county purchasing and departmental policies and procedures
related to the selection of Parsons" (See attached MSL report by William Blend).
Part Two: With regard to Chapter 119 Public Records laws, specifically Chapter 119.021, 119.07 (1) and
119.10, Investigators requested and received in a timely manner numerous documents during this investigation.
However, a request for text messages from Commissioner Murman to/from Mike Merrill during August 2014
revealed Commissioner Murman did not properly preserve those records as required, but Mr. Merrill did and
provided those records to Investigators. (See attached text message records between Commissioner Murman
and Mike Merrill).
Investigators also obtained an email from Ms. Leytham dated August 12, 2014, to Commissioner Murman on
her personal email account. The email had an attached outline for the GoHillsborough transportation initiative.
Commissioner Murman referred to the outline in her remarks at the TED/PLG meeting on August 12, 2014, prior
to the PB selection (See attached email records provided by Beth Leytham). Commissioner Murman could not
provide Investigators a preserved copy of this particular email.
Chapter 119.021 (1) - "Public records shall be maintained and preserved..." Chapter 119.07 (1) (c) - "A custodian
of public records and his or her designee must acknowledge requests to inspect or copy records promptly and
respond to such requests in good faith. A good faith response includes: making reasonable efforts to determine
from other officers or employees within the agency whether such a record exists..." During an interview with
Investigators, Commissioner Murman stated she could have deleted text messages she didn't realize she needed to
save or they were unknowingly deleted because of a setting on her cell phone which deleted her text messages "every
two (2) weeks." Once the setting error was discovered, Commissioner Murman had the cell phone setting altered
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so future text messages would not be deleted. Commissioner Murman provided copies of her deleted text message
communication with Mr. Merrill, by obtaining his preserved records. She could not provide a preserved copy of
the email with Ms. Leytham on her personal account. Even though the messages from Commissioner Murman
were preserved by Mr. Merrill and Ms. Leytham, Commissioner Murman, who is also a custodian, still had the
responsibility to preserve the record, whether on a cell phone or personal email account.
Chapter 119.10 (1) - Any public officer who:
(a) Violates any provision of chapter 119 commits a noncriminal infraction, punishable by fine not exceeding $500.
(b) Knowingly violates chapter 119 is subject to suspension and removal or impeachment and, in addition, commits
a misdemeanor of the 1st degree.
(c) Knowingly and willfully violates chapter 119 commits a misdemeanor of the 1st degree.
Commissioner Murman did not preserve the aforementioned listed records (a noncriminal infraction), but
Investigators found no evidence to show the lack of preservation by Commissioner Murman was done so purposely,
knowingly, or with willful intent to prevent the preservation or inspection of the record. Therefore, the elements
to support a criminal violation were not met.
Commissioner Hagan was questioned by Investigators regarding a public records request from June 2015 of emails
from his personal email accounts, but the records were not released until September 28, 2015. Commissioner Hagan
stated he was not made aware of the request until September 17, 2015, by his aide. Commissioner Hagan stated there
was a breakdown in communication and he initiated a policy change to his staff to do a better job of documenting,
tracking, and responding to requests for public records. Investigators found no evidence to indicate Commissioner
Hagan or his staff purposely delayed releasing the requested documents.
With regard to Florida Statutes Chapter 838, Bribery, Official Misconduct; Investigators found no evidence
to support whether any of the TED/PLG members "with corrupt intent" obtained a benefit (PB contract/sub contract
of The Leytham Group) for any person (Beth Leytham) or caused harm to another to falsify any public record or
conceal, cover up, destroy, mutilate, or alter any public record. Although some TED/PLG members had text message
or e-mail contact with Ms. Leytham about county business prior to the selection of PB, there was no evidence to
support any member influenced the selection process or was influenced and knew PB would then contract with
Ms. Leytham for public outreach / communication services. The Selection Team had no contact with Ms. Leytham
during the selection process and made the recommendation to go with PB without any improper influence.
With regard to Florida Statutes Chapter 287.055 Acquisition of professional architectural, engineering,
landscape architectural, or surveying and mapping services; This statute refers to the "Consultants' Competitive
Negotiation Act" (CCNA), and 287.055(6)(b) which reads "Any individual, corporation, partnership, firm, or
company, other than a bona fide employee working solely for an architect, professional engineer, or registered land
surveyor and mapper, who offers, agrees, or contracts to solicit or secure agency contracts for professional services
for any other individual, company, corporation, partnership, or firm and to be paid, or is paid, any fee, commission,
percentage, gift, or other consideration contingent upon, or resulting from, the award or the making of a contract
for professional services shall, upon conviction in a competent court of this state, be found guilty of a first degree
misdemeanor" In other words, did Beth Leytham or The Leytham group, who was and is under contract with PB (an
engineering firm) for consulting services, secure a contract for another company and was paid or compensated as a
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result of the other company receiving a contract. The elements of this law were not met. There is no evidence to show
PB, or any other company was contracted for GoHillsborough based on the influence or efforts of Ms. Leytham.
With regard to Lobbying and County Ordinance 07-8; Ms. Leytham registered as a lobbyist in Hillsborough
County on three (3) occasions in 2013-2014 (See attached Lobbyist Registry forms). On two of the registration
forms, Ms. Leytham did not properly complete each form as required in the ordinance. During an interview with
Investigators, she advised she filled out the forms in "an abundance of caution" and never considered herself a
lobbyist and was not lobbying commissioners as defined in the ordinance. She was not positioning herself or seeking
votes. Regarding GoHillsborough, Ms. Leytham described herself as a "strategist" and contacted Mr. Merrill and
commissioners to share her "opinion," and wanted to help the county go in the best direction for the community.
The definition of lobbying in this ordinance is "meeting privately with affected personnel in order to encourage
the passage, defeat, or modification of any item pending before the Board of County Commissioners or being
considered by the lobbied employee for presentation or recommendation to the Board of County Commissioners."
No evidence was discovered to meet the elements of this ordinance.
Regarding the state definition, Chapter 112.3215 (1) (f); "Lobbies" means seeking, on behalf of another person,
to influence an agency with respect to a decision of the agency in the area of policy or procurement or an attempt to
obtain the goodwill of an agency official or employee..." Since Ms. Leytham was not registered as a lobbyist with
the State of Florida and the allegations of lobbying were related to county and city government elected officials,
this statute did not apply. However, during an interview with Investigators, Ms. Leytham stated the state definition
of a lobbyist was broader and if the county mirrored the state's definition, then it "could label some of the work
she does as lobbying."
Further consideration on the aforementioned statutes and county ordinance were referred to the State Attorney's
Office for further review, including the noncriminal infraction of chapter 119 committed by Commissioner Murman.
NOTE: Since the investigation began, county commissioners have made recommendations to change the ordinance
for lobbying, change how public records requests are communicated and handled, and cell phones have now been
issued to all commissioners for better text message preservation.
With respect to the questions raised by Mr. Merrill at the beginning of this investigation from a meeting on
September 23, 2015, Investigators answered them as follows:
1. Was the procurement process regarding the PB selection fair and legal?
2. Was the contract obtained "behind closed doors"?
YES
NO
3. Is Beth Leytham a lobbyist and was she acting as a lobbyist for PB? Per the county definition of a lobbyist,
NO she is not. There is no evidence to support the allegations Ms. Leytham "lobbied" PB for the GoHillsborough
transportation initiative. The Selection Team had no contact with her, and the procedures used for selection had
no signs of improper influence.
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Document: INTERVIEW-OTHER
Subject: (Subject #34) COLEMAN, MICHAEL
Date and Time of Interview: October 14, 2015, at 0930 hours

Location of Interview: via phone
Synopsis:
The interview was not recorded. Mr. Coleman is with RS&H and advised he was contacted by Mike Williams
regarding a "campaign effort to raise a sales tax for transportation" and to see if they would participate. Mr. Coleman
declined participation because "it was not their expertise and they had not participated in that type of effort before."
Mr. Coleman sent an email to Mr. Williams explaining the reasons for not participating in the initiative.
(See attached email from Mike Coleman to Mike Williams).

Subject: (Subject #31) RYAN, MATTHEW D
Related date/time: Oct-20-2015 (Tue.) 1140

Synopsis:
The interview was not recorded. Mr. Ryan is with HDR. Mr. Ryan was initially contacted by John Lyons who
asked if HDR would be interested in providing assistance with a transit referendum. Mr. Ryan had other contact
through email with Larry Scully and John Lyons when Mr. Ryan submitted a qualification package. Mr. Ryan
confirmed HDR worked on a water reservoir project through Tampa Bay Water which had challenges during and
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after construction. He acknowledged the county commission had reservations about HDR in general; however, he
did not believe that played a role in this transportation initiative selection process or the reason why they were not
selected. He indicated he worked with Mr. Lyons in the past and had the water reservoir been a deciding factor,
Mr. Lyons would not have even considered HDR for the project. Mr. Ryan provided Investigators with the email
correspondence he had with Mr. Lyons and Mr. Scully.
(See attached email correspondence provided by Matt Ryan).

Subject: (Subject #30) DRAPP, JAMES E J

Synopsis:
James Drapp is with HNTB. The interview was not recorded. Mr. Drapp advised he was contacted by Mike Williams
who asked for assistance with a campaign effort for a tax referendum of a penny to a penny. He spoke with
Mr. Williams for about fifteen (15) minutes, but no paperwork was requested. Mr. Drapp acknowledged he did not
hear back from Mr. Williams which was unusual and "not the normal course of business." Mr. Drapp felt HNTB
was qualified for the project as they were currently involved with the Greenlight Pinellas tax referendum effort. He
admitted he was concerned HNTB would not get the project because of their current involvement with Greenlight
Pinellas.
NOTE: Although Mr. Drapp was concerned about not having to provide paperwork to Mr. Williams, during
the interview with Larry Scully on October 26, 2015, Investigators discovered another representative of HNTB,
Michael DeMent, had been contacted, and paperwork was submitted with HNTB's qualifications. Investigators
obtained the email correspondence documenting the contact with Mr. Scully and Mr. DeMent.
(See attached email provided by Larry Scully).

Subject: (Subject #17) MERRILL, MICHAEL
Date and Time of 1st Interview: October 21, 2015, at 1432 hours
Date and Time of 2nd Interview: December 21, 2015, at 1313 hours
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Location of Both Interviews: 601 Kennedy Bl, Tampa, FL, 33602

Both interviews were audio recorded. See transcribed interviews for complete details.
Synopsis:
Mike Merrill has been the County Administrator since 2010 and established the TED/PLG in 2013. After being
directed by the TED/PLG to engage a private firm, he formed a selection team of John Lyons, Mike Williams,
and Larry Scully. Lucia Garsys oversaw the process. He was not involved until they came to him with their
recommendation. It was a standard process and he did not direct the team's recommendation in any way. Mr. Merrill
described the meeting with Mr. Lyons and Mr. Williams as "here are the two best qualified firms." He stated HNTB
was involved with Greenlight and it was recommended they should not be used. Mr. Merrill agreed and selected
PB. He was not pressured to choose PB. It was based on the recommendation from his staff, but the TED/PLG
made the final decision. The HDR text message from Commissioner Murman did not influence his decision at all.
She was sharing her opinion, which all commissioners do. No one forced him to choose PB.
He first met Beth Leytham in 2005 during a transportation task force where she performed administrative duties.
He had no contact with her further until 2013, prior to GoHillsborough (See attached September 6, 2013, text
message between Merrill and Leytham). He did not know how she acquired his cell phone number. The text
messages he received from her prior to PB's selection were always unsolicited and provided no value or benefit
to him (See attached text message communication during 2014 between Merrill and Leytham). She always
reached out to him whether it be by phone or text message. He was not aware of Ms. Leytham being under contract
with PB prior to GoHillsborough. She never appeared to be representing any firm in his communication with her.
She never offered her "services" to him and never approached him on behalf of PB or any firm. When she was giving
her advice or opinion, she never suggested PB. He does not consider her a lobbyist, but it's not that clear. He could
tell she wanted part of this effort. It was "clever positioning on her part." Mr. Merrill described Ms. Leytham as
aggressive, direct and flamboyant, but "she's good and did a very good job for us." If he had to choose, he probably
would have chosen her. "Her style is what helped to really move this thing forward." Regarding the August 8, 2014
phone call with Ms. Leytham, had he known she was working for PB he would not have had that conversation with
her. Again, she was providing her opinion and advice, but it provided no benefit to him. Ms. Leytham never said
to him "hire me, hire Parsons."

Subject: (Subject #14) GARSYS, LUCIA E
Related date/time: Oct-22-2015 (Thu.) 833
Date and Time of 1st Interview: October 22, 2015, at 0833 hours
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Synopsis:
Ms. Garsys is Hillsborough County's Chief of Infrastructure and Development and reports to Mike Merrill. She has
been employed with the county since 1989. She was involved in the 2010 tax referendum. When the selection team
was formed with John Lyons, Mike Williams, and Larry Scully, she was somewhat removed from involvement and
supervision for two (2) reasons; Mr. Williams, Mr. Lyons, and Mr. Scully were very capable and she was in the
hospital for a period of time. She recalled listening in on one or two phone calls during her recovery, but she was
not engaged in the complete process. She trusted their ability and did not micromanage them. She did not recall
being present at the meeting when PB was recommended to Mr. Merrill. Ms. Garsys explained that Mr. Merrill
made the decision to choose PB based on the recommendation from his staff, who he relied heavily on. She was
not aware of any influence or pressure for PB to be chosen.
She first met Beth Leytham in 2008 or 2009 during a transportation task force. Ms. Leytham assisted with
"messaging" or taking data and making it understandable. Ms. Leytham will let you know her opinion on anything.
She works out at the same barre fitness studio as Ms. Leytham and Commissioner Murman. Their conversations
would be about all sorts of topics including transportation and county business, but nothing specific. Ms. Leytham
never mentioned she was consulting for PB and she never steered the conversation in that direction. Ms. Garsys
did not remember a specific conversation with Ms. Leytham about the transportation initiative until after PB was
selected. The conversations related back to Ms. Leytham's involvement with Invision and her closeness with Mayor
Buckhorn. She was not aware Ms. Leytham was under contract with PB prior to GoHillsborough. Had she known,
she would have been more cautious around her. She did not inform Ms. Leytham who was on the Selection Team,
and Ms. Leytham did not ask her. Ms. Garsys did not influence the decision to go with PB. She was never contacted
by Ms. Leytham or any TED/PLG member about PB during the selection process. Ms. Leytham was very much
qualified to do the job PB hired her for with GoHillsborough.
(See attached text message communication provided by Garsys with Leytham #1-5).

Subject: (Subject #13) LOPEZ, LIANA D

Location of Interview: 601 Kennedy Bl, Tampa, FL, 33602
The interview was audio recorded. See transcribed interview for complete details.
Synopsis:
Ms. Lopez is Hillsborough County's Chief Communications Administrator and was hired in May of 2014. She first
met Beth Leytham in 2003 or 2004 on the Riverwalk project. The next time she saw Ms. Leytham was at the "scroll"
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media briefing. When Ms. Leytham arrived with Commissioner Sharpe, she told Ms. Leytham the meeting was not
open to the public since the media was present and it was a small conference room. Ms. Leytham did not appear to
be representing anyone, including PB. The next time she saw Ms. Leytham was after PB was selected.

Subject: (Subject #5) WISE, BONNIE M Ma

Synopsis:
Ms. Wise is Hillsborough County's Chief Financial Advisor and reports to Mike Merrill. She was interviewed
after text messages were obtained showing communication between herself and Beth Leytham. The messages
were sent after PB was awarded the GoHillsborough contract. Ms. Wise was driving around town looking for the
GoHillsborough signs to make sure they were visible and she sent pictures of them to Ms. Leytham. She was not
involved in the selection process of PB or the CCNA process. She first met Ms. Leytham after PB was selected.
Ms. Wise provided the text message communications she had with Ms. Leytham.
(See attached text message communication provided by Wise with Leytham #1-3).

Subject: (Subject #11) SCULLY, LARRY
Related date/time: Oct-26-2015 (Mon.) 1505

Location of Interview: via conference call
Synopsis:
Mr. Scully has been a paid consultant for Hillsborough County for the past twenty (20) years, generally dealing
with infrastructure finance. He has never lived in Tampa. In August 2014, Mr. Scully was asked by either Mike
Merrill or his office to assist John Lyons and Mike Williams in selecting a transportation firm that understood the
sales tax referendum. Action had to be taken quickly due to the timing of the referendum. Mr. Scully reached out to
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representatives at HDR, HNTB, and PB by phone or email to inquire into there qualifications. He remembered HDR
was "not so responsive" to their requests and the package they sent was not impressive. HNTB was involved in
the Greenlight Pinellas project. PB was the most responsive and had previously participated in a number of similar
projects. He was not involved in the decision process, but shared his knowledge about each firm to Mr. Lyons and
Mr. Williams. He was never contacted by Beth Leytham. The first time he met her was after PB was hired when
he attended a meeting. He was never told who to pick for this process and was not pressured by anyone.

Subject: (Subject #6) CHILLURA, FRANK

Location of Interview: 9732 56th St N, Temple Terrace, FL, 33617
Synopsis:
He is the Mayor of Temple Terrace. He joined the TED/PLG at inception. He did not know Beth Leytham
and did not remember meeting her. He was not aware of any influence from anyone to have PB chosen for
GoHillsborough. He had no text messages related to GoHillsborough.

Subject: (Subject #24) FLETCHER, CHARLE
Date and Time of 1st interview: October 27, 2014, from 1130 hours to 1435 hours
Date and Time of 2nd interview: December 04, 2015, from 1400 hours to 1410 hours
Present for both interviews: Corporal C. P. Hollis (ABN#5603), Detective T. Clark (ABN#173949), Detective S.
Portalatin (ABN#222593) and County Attorney Mary Helen Ferris
Location of both interviews: 601 Kennedy Bl, Tampa, FL, 33602
NOTE: Charles "Chip" Fletcher and Mary Helen Ferris requested the interview not to be audio recorded.
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Summary:
Mr. Fletcher is Chief Legal Council for Hillsborough County and has been for approximately 3 years. He was
hired in November 2012 and replaced Don Odom. He reports to the County Commission and oversees any issues
pertaining to the board's legal issues, civil matters including slips and falls, land use, regulatory matters and housing
finance activities. There are 30 attorneys employed under his direction. The attorneys are divided into four divisions
with a chief for each division. Mr. Fletcher described his position as being co-equal to the County Administrator
position. Mr. Fletcher is contracted by the Board of County Commission and his contract was renewed for an
additional three years after his last yearly review.
Mr. Fletcher has attended most of the TED/PLG. meetings. He usually sat in the audience because there were not
many legal issues requiring his involvement in the meetings. Sam Hamilton or Ms. Ferris would attend the meetings
in his absence. Mr. Fletcher regularly met with the commissioners who were on the TED/PLG board for a briefing
before each board meeting. Mr. Fletcher met with Commissioner Ken Hagan less than the other commissioners.
Mr. Fletcher was asked if any one commissioner took up significantly more of his time during those briefings. Mr.
Fletcher replied the briefings with the county commissioners were usually of equal time. The TED/PLG was formed
as a "working group" for identifying possible solutions to the transportation needs within Hillsborough County. The
TED/PLG allowed members to be stakeholders for their constituents' transportation concerns. Since the TED/PLG
was not a legal voting body, Mr. Fletcher believed they went "beyond being transparent" by making the meetings
open to the public and televised. Mr. Fletcher also noted the minutes were available online.
Mr. Fletcher was asked if he was present at the August 12, 2014, TED/PLG meeting where Mike Merrill was
directed to select an engineering firm. He indicated he was present for the meeting. After the meeting, Mr. Fletcher
discussed with Mr. Merrill, the county could utilize the CCNA process because of the time restraint. Mr. Fletcher
estimated a full procurement of an engineering firm would have taken at least four months. Using a preselected
firm under the CCNA process was legal and not unusual in this case. Mr. Fletcher was asked to describe the process
of the "direct select" method used to choose Parsons Brinckerhoff (PB) from the list of ten (10) companies. Mr.
Fletcher referred us to Attorney Christine Beck who he said was his expert on the topic. However, Mr. Fletcher
did mention there is a county manual which is used to guide the use of the CCNA process to spread work evenly
amongst the firms. Mr. Fletcher was not involved in the selection process, but he did have some discussion with
John Lyons during that time.
Mr. Fletcher was asked when he first met Beth Leytham. He indicated he first met Ms. Leytham, in a professional
capacity, after the selection of the firm was finalized. Mr. Fletcher then clarified, he knew of her informally prior
to GoHillsborough because she is a friend of a law partner of his. He recalled he became reacquainted with her at
the October 2014 PB meeting which was held prior to the BOCC meeting where PB conducted a presentation. Ms.
Leytham was presented as a sub-contractor for public relations under PB at the meeting.
Mr. Fletcher was asked if he was aware of any contact Ms. Leytham had with county commissioners. Mr. Fletcher
indicated his knowledge of Ms. Leytham's contact with commissioners was obtained during his review of public
records request. Mr. Fletcher made reference to the 2013 Lobbyist Registration forms which Ms. Leytham filled
out representing Yellow Cab. During the review of the records requests he did not see any violation of Ordinance
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07-8. Mr. Fletcher stated currently county clerks do not require people to sign in before visiting commissioners.
He also mentioned no one was required to review the sign-in registry book to ensure the forms were filled out
completely and accurately. Mr. Fletcher indicated improvements to the policy were needed and being worked on.
Mr. Fletcher was asked about the training the county receives in reference to lobbying. He responded, the civilian
side is not as structured as the uniform side. He then directed the question to Ms. Ferris, who mentioned state law
requires commissioners must take a four hour ethics/Sunshine training course, and subsequently must complete an
annual refresher course. She mentioned the new aides are trained upon hire and the senior staff and directors are
retrained. Mr. Fletcher interjected that he personally walked commissioners through the process of taking a "screen
shot" on their cellphones, which in turn can be e-mailed to the county's e-mail system for preservation. Mr. Fletcher
agreed metadata can be lost via the screen shot method. He also mentioned, more recently some commissioners
have been utilizing the software Mr. Merrill used to preserve his text messages.
Mr. Fletcher was asked if he had knowledge of Ms. Leytham's contracts with PB prior to her work with
GoHillsborough. He indicated he was not aware Ms. Leytham was under contract. Mr. Fletcher and Ms. Ferris were
shown a copy of Ms. Leytham's 2010, 2011, and 2014 contracts with PB for review. Mr. Fletcher and Ms. Ferris
briefly reviewed the contracts paying specific attention to the scope of work described. Mr. Fletcher mentioned the
county was in the process of rewriting their definition of a lobbyist.
Mr. Fletcher was asked if he was aware of any ethical issues pertaining to the selection of PB. He was not aware of
any ethical issues. Mr. Fletcher reiterated the CCNA manual was followed and it was normal for Mike Williams
to be involved in the selection of engineering firms. Mr. Fletcher was made aware of Larry Skully's involvement,
but he indicated using an outside consultant to help choose the best firm was not unusual. Mr. Fletcher stressed
the process was conducted, "by the book."
Mr. Fletcher was asked if he was aware of any attempt by commissioners to reach out to the group that was
conducting the selection of the engineering firm. He indicated he was not aware of any communication between the
commissioners and the Selection Committee during the selection process. Mr. Fletcher was asked if it was proper
for Commissioner Murman to send a text message to Mr. Merrill asking him not to choose HDR because of their
prior dealings with Tampa Bay Water. Mr. Fletcher replied it is well known Commissioner Murman is not a fan
of HDR, and has been very outspoken about her opinion of them. Mr. Fletcher stated Commissioner Murman was
sharing her opinion with Mr. Merrill which is allowed.
2nd interview on December 04, 2015, from 1400 hours to 1410 hours
Mr. Fletcher was asked if Commissioners Murman and Hagan were still in possession of the phones they were using
in the summer of 2014. He replied to his knowledge the phones had been replaced. Investigators inquired about
when and how the phones were replaced and if the commissioners could provide proof of when the phones were
replaced. Mr. Fletcher told us he would speak to both commissioners and advise them to provide Investigators with
the requested information during. Mr. Fletcher mentioned if the phones were available there would be information
redacted if it did not pertain to GoHillsborough. Mr. Fletcher was provided a copy of the FDLE "Text Gate" case
which included an exemplar of a redaction request.
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Subject: (Subject #8) LYONS, JOHN W Oct

Synopsis:
Mr. Lyons is Hillsborough County's Director of Public Works and reports to Lucia Garsys. He is also a professional
engineer. He advised he had no involvement with the 2011 procurement involving the fifty-three (53) firms when
ten (10) firms were signed to the general services contracts. Normally a procurement can take six (6) to nine (9)
months to complete. Following the August 12, 2014, TED/PLG meeting which he attended, he had a follow-up
meeting with Mike Merrill about selecting a firm with experience and he was told "we needed to move quickly."
There were two options; conduct a stand-alone procurement which would take months or use one of the firms on the
general civil contracts if they had the experience needed. They used the "direct select" method which is a standard
process. He was assisted by Mike Williams and Larry Scully. Lucia Garsys was involved with the conversation,
but did not oversee the process. They narrowed down the list of ten (10) to four (4) firms, RS&H, HDR, HNTB,
and PB. The water reservoir issue did not factor into his decision not to consider HDR. Mr. Lyons described an
issue of concern regarding a $75 million expansion on a waste water treatment facility involving HDR, which was
the engineering firm on record. There were performance issues during that project. HNTB was involved in the
Greenlight Pinellas and because of the controversy involved he felt it better to not use them. PB was chosen based
on their experience. He provided that recommendation to Mike Merrill. No one influenced his decision including
Mr. Merrill. He never spoke to Beth Leytham or any TED/PLG member while making the decision. He was never
told who to choose in this process. He first met Ms. Leytham after the selection during a meeting with PB. There
was nothing flawed about the process. He would not change anything. According to Mr. Lyons, PB did quality
work and were the right company for the project.

Subject: (Subject #18) WILLIAMS, MICHAE

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Synopsis:
Mr. Williams is the Hillsborough County Engineer and Director of Transportation Planning and Development and
reports to John Lyons. He advised the general service contracts process is standard and conducted every few years.
The CCNA process is a standard practice. The procurement process takes three (3) to six (6) months on average. He
was part of the selection team with Larry Scully and John Lyons. He reached out to Mike Coleman at RS&H, but
Mr. Coleman emailed him about not having the experience the county requested. He reached out to Larry Lowell
with HDR, but he did not respond. When he spoke to Jim Drapp with HNTB, he did not request anything from Mr.
Drapp since Mr. Scully was reaching out to the national representatives with those firms. Mr. Williams described
the meeting with Mike Merrill when deciding which firm to choose as "flip a coin" between HNTB and PB as they
were equally qualified. HNTB's involvement with the Pinellas project was the tie breaker and why PB was chosen.
The HDR water reservoir issue was not a factor for not choosing HDR. He didn't remember that issue with HDR
even being discussed. He felt no pressure or influence on who to recommend or choose. He was never contacted by
Beth Leytham or any TED/PLG member. The first time he met Ms. Leytham was at a PB meeting once they were
selected. Mr. Williams believed the process was conducted fairly and properly and they "made the right decision."

Subject: (Subject #19) LOTT, RICK A May
Related date/time: Oct-30-2015 (Fri.) 911

Location of Interview: 302 Reynolds St, Plant City, FL, 33563
Synopsis:
He is the Mayor of Plant City and joined the TED/PLG at inception. He did not know Beth Leytham and did not
remember meeting her. He was not aware of any improper influence to have PB chosen for GoHillsborough. He
did not have any text messages related to GoHillsborough.

Subject: (Subject #21) STROMER, SCOTT P
Related date/time: Oct-30-2015 (Fri.) 1428
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Synopsis:
Mr. Stromer is Hillsborough County's Director of Procurement Services. He started with Hillsborough County in
January of 2015. Prior to January 2015, he served as the Director of Procurement in Pasco County for seventeen
(17) years, and seven (7) years in Nebraska. He had no involvement with the TED/PLG or the hiring of PB for the
GoHillsborough transportation initiative. The CCNA process is "the higher level process." The "direct select" is
a continuation of the CCNA process. If he had been employed by the county during the selection, he would have
recommended the "same course." The majority of the work for this project was going to be engineering, deciding the
types of projects needed, and what the projects would cost. The public engagement was a small piece in comparison
to the engineering side. He was not aware of any improper influence for PB to be selected. He has never met
Beth Leytham.

Subject: (Subject #25) HOLLINGSHEAD, JO
Related date/time: Nov-02-2015 (Mon.) 858
Date and Time of Interview: November 2, 2015, at 0858 hours

Synopsis:
Mr. Hollingshead is Hillsborough County's Procurement Operations Manager. The 2011 CCNA Procurement was
done because of expiring contracts of firms from the previous procurement. The CCNA Procurement is a standard
process. The CCNA is a fair process, as it spreads the work out evenly, makes you select the most "qualified" firm,
not the one who has the lower bid. There is a higher burden for qualification with the CCNA process. He was not
involved in the selection of PB. He was not aware of any improper influence. He has never met Beth Leytham.

Subject: (Subject #26) FESLER, JOHN T D

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Synopsis:
Mr. Fesler is Hillsborough County's Director of the Management Budget Department and served as interim
Procurement Services Director until Scott Stromer was hired. He advised the county does about 200 procurements a
year with the average taking six (6) months to complete. The CCNA is a routine process. He was not involved in the
2011 procurement process and had no involvement with the GoHillsborough transportation initiative selection. He
is not aware of any protests from the firms that were not selected. He had no discussions with TED/PLG members
about procurement. He has never spoken to or met Beth Leytham. He had seen her at some of the GoHillsborough
meetings. He is not aware of any improper influence with the PB selection.

Subject: (Subject #33) CASKEY, PEGGY A

Synopsis:
Ms. Caskey has been the Hillsborough County Auditor since September of 2015. Prior to September 2015, she
was the Hillsborough County Clerk of Court Auditor for three (3) years. In November of 2014, she performed a
preliminary assessment of the PB selection to determine if an audit needed to be completed after citizens Sharon
Calvert and Ken Roberts filed a complaint. Her position at the Clerk's Office was independent to Mike Merrill and
she had no contact with him. As a result of her assessment, Ms. Caskey found no concern requiring an audit and
shared her findings in a detailed report. The main complaint was the use of the CCNA procurement versus a regular
procurement. The CCNA was the most appropriate method. Approximately one (1) year prior to her assessment,
Ms. Caskey conducted a full audit of the CCNA process and found no concerns. She was not involved in the PB
decision and has never met Beth Leytham.
(See attached Preliminary Assessment-PB)

Subject: (Subject #16) SUAREZ, MICHAEL
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Related date/time: Nov-12-2015 (Thu.) 1523

Synopsis:
Mr. Suarez is the Director of Hart and joined the TED/PLG at inception. He did not influence the choosing of PB
and was not aware of any TED/PLG member trying to provide influence. He has known Beth Leytham for fifteen
(15) to twenty (20) years. He knew Ms. Leytham represented PB as a public relations person in the past. PB was a
client of hers. He never had a conversation with her about PB for the GoHillsborough project. He was not involved
in the decision except during the TED/PLG meeting when the group approved to hire PB. Mr. Suarez provided
text message communication he had with Ms. Leytham.
(See attached text message communication provided by Mike Suarez).

Subject: (Subject #2) HIGGINBOTHAM, ALL
Related date/time: Nov-13-2015 (Fri.) 1037

Synopsis:
Commissioner Higginbotham has served as a County Commissioner since November 2006. He was part of the failed
2010 referendum which he voted against because he stated the decision making was done "behind closed doors."
He stated during the decision to select a firm in 2014, the TED/PLG needed someone with traffic and engineering
experience, not a public relations (PR) firm. He did not direct the selection of PB or have any influence on PB being
selected for approval by the TED/PLG. He was not aware of any improper influence from TED/PLG members.
Regarding Commissioner Murman's HDR text to Mr. Merrill, he stated she was voicing her opinion, which she
should do if she felt strongly about it. He did not remember ever having a specific conversation with Beth Leytham
before. He had no text messages with Ms. Leytham. He would like to see a clearer definition on registering as a
lobbyist with training classes. He also wanted to increase the amount of ethics training the commissioners received
and wanted the training done during a public meeting, but some commissioners opposed it.
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Subject: (Subject #22) WHITE, STACY R A
Related date/time: Nov-17-2015 (Tue.) 1117

Synopsis:
Commissioner White was elected as a Hillsborough County Commissioner in November 2014. He was not involved
in the selection process, and he was not aware of any influence for PB to be chosen. He first met Beth Leytham at
a breakfast meeting when he met with a construction firm she was representing from a public relations standpoint.
Commissioner White stated he would like to see a better training process for newly elected officials with regards
to Sunshine laws and other items. He had no text messages between himself and Ms. Leytham.

Subject: (Subject #15) SHARPE, MARK S J
Related date/time: Nov-19-2015 (Thu.) 1226

Location of Interview: 2008 E 8th Ave, Tampa, FL, 33605
Synopsis:
Commissioner Sharpe served on the Hillsborough County Board of County Commissioners (BOCC) from 2004
to November 2014. He was involved in the 2010 referendum attempt and helped form the TED/PLG group with
Mike Merrill. He did not influence the selection of PB and was not aware of any influence by other TED/PLG
members. He first met Beth Leytham in or around 2004 during his election. He was introduced to her through Louis
Betz. His engagement with her was sporadic during his ten (10) years at the commission. Mr. Sharpe stated Ms.
Leytham was very good about telling him if she was representing someone during conversations with her. He knew
she had represented PB in the past when in 2010 he met George Walton for coffee. He couldn't remember if Ms.
Leytham attended, but she told him she represented PB at the time. When he saw Ms. Leytham at the July 29, 2014,
"scroll" meeting he never thought "Parsons at all," but "was thinking Mayor." Ms. Leytham never tried to encourage
or force the selection of PB for GoHillsborough. He thought all the commissioners were aware of Ms. Leytham's
relationship with PB in the past, but he was not aware she was under contract. He thought she was just "a rep." He
had no text messages with Ms. Leytham pertaining to this investigation.
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Subject: (Subject #12) MILLER, LESLEY J
Related date/time: Nov-20-2015 (Fri.) 949

Synopsis:
Commissioner Miller was elected as a Hillsborough County Commissioner in 2010, and prior to the commission
was in the Florida Legislature for fourteen (14) years. He has been in public office for almost forty (40) years.
He did not influence the selection of PB. The text about HDR with Commissioner Murman was not something he
would do, but that was her decision. He does not remember ever meeting Beth Leytham. Regarding the lobbyist
registry she filled out in 2013, he did not remember meeting with Ms. Leytham about Bass Pro Shops. He has
never received advice from Ms. Leytham. Besides the "uproar about Beth Leytham" he stated everything was done
properly. He had no text messages with Ms. Leytham. When asked about preserving text messages on his personal
phone, Commissioner Miller stated he did not "know the law that well to know what that laws says about personal
text," or how to "control that on a personal phone."

Subject: (Subject #10) BECKNER, KEVIN A
Related date/time: Nov-24-2015 (Tue.) 1008

Synopsis:
Commissioner Beckner was elected as a Hillsborough County Commissioner in 2008. He did not influence the
selection of PB and was not aware of any TED/PLG member having influence either. The comments made by
Commissioner Murman about HDR were her opinion. He first met Beth Leytham in 2012 when he was running
for re-election. He was not aware of Ms. Leytham being under contract with PB prior to GoHillsborough. He did
not know if Ms. Leytham had any influence on the selection of PB. If doing this process again he stated "I don't
know that there's anything that I would do differently." He also stated PB has a great reputation and the public
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outreach has been effective. He did not have a problem with the process of how PB was selected, using the direct
select method instead of another procurement. Commissioner Beckner provided text message communication he
had with Ms. Leytham.
(See attached text message communication with Beckner-Leytham).

Subject: (Subject #23) CRIST, VICTOR D
Related date/time: Dec-03-2015 (Thu.) 1311
Date and Time of Interview: December 3, 2015, at 1311 hours

Synopsis:
Commissioner Crist was elected as a Hillsborough County Commissioner in 2010. Prior to his election, he served in
the Florida House of Representatives until 2000, then served in the Florida Senate until 2010. He was not involved
in the 2010 tax referendum. He stated the Sunshine Law was much stricter at the local level than with the state. He
has a system in place to preserve text messages where he forwards them to his email. The messages are placed in a
folder on his computer. Commissioner Crist took the initiative to take his yearly mandated ethics training in person
in Tallahassee as opposed to the online version. He wanted to hear the training from those in the Ethics Commission.
He stated there was no training provided yearly by the legal staff to make sure procedures are followed. He stated
"Parsons is the best in the business," but he was not aware if the steps taken to select them were proper. He had
no influence in the decision. He speculated the Mayor (Mayor Buckhorn) may have had influence, because of his
relationship with PB and wanting to get the referendum passed, but he had no facts. Commissioner Crist has known
Beth Leytham for about thirty (30) years. She does not hold back her words. He described their relationship as
that of a brother and sister. He knew of her to represent clients, but not necessarily lobbying for them. She was an
organizer or developed a messaging strategy, but did not sell products or services. She never pushed PB to him prior
to GoHillsborough. He was not aware of her relationship with PB until after the media reports started. He stated
"Beth is the best media relations person in town." He has called Ms. Leytham prior to an interview with the media
to get some background information about the interviewer to see if Ms. Leytham knew anything. The HDR text
from Commissioner Murman was her voicing her opinion. He stated Commissioner Hagan was the longest serving
member on the floor and the most influential. He did not believe Ms. Leytham had any influence on Commissioner
Murman. Commissioner Crist provided text message communication he had with Ms. Leytham.
(See attached text message communication with Crist-Leytham #1-2).
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Subject: (Subject #3) BUCKHORN, ROBERT
Related date/time: Dec-08-2015 (Tue.) 1055

Location of Interview: 306 E. Jackson St, Tampa, FL, 33602
Synopsis:
Mayor Buckhorn was elected as Mayor on April 1, 2011, and has served on the TED/PLG board since inception.
He was not involved in the decision making process except during his vote to approve PB in October, 2014. When
asked if he had influence on the selection of PB, he stated "No. It's not my call." He is very supportive of getting
the referendum on the ballot for a vote. He has known Beth Leytham for twenty-five (25) years, professionally and
socially, and someone he has "bounced ideas off periodically." He did not influence Ms. Leytham to get hired for
GoHillsborough. He stated he probably did have conversations with Ms. Leytham during August of 2014 about the
direction the GoHillsborough project should go, but they also had conversations about other issues not related to
the TED/PLG. Mayor Buckhorn knew Ms. Leytham represented PB "for years," and knew she was under contract
with them. He described Ms. Leytham as a "communications professional" and assists with media relations. He
stated "she is not a lobbyist." Mayor Buckhorn had no text messages with Ms. Leytham about city/county business.

Subject: (Subject #7) MARLOWE, HERBERT
Related date/time: Dec-09-2015 (Wed.) 1529

Location of Interview: 3725 Harden Bl, Lakeland, FL, 33803
The interview was audio record. See transcribed interview for complete details.
Synopsis:
Mr. Marlowe is a paid consultant who works with counties on strategic plans and business plans. He was hired
by Hillsborough County to help facilitate the TED/PLG meetings. He also attended meetings with Mike Merrill
to prepare for the TED/PLG meetings. He was not aware of any influence, whether from Mr. Merrill or the TED/
PLG members to get PB chosen. He did not influence the decision to go with PB. He never met Beth Leytham
during the GoHillsborough process.
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Subject: (Subject #9) HAGAN, KENNETH L
Related date/time: Dec-14-2015 (Mon.) 1308

Synopsis:
Commissioner Hagan was elected as a Hillsborough County Commissioner in 2002. He stated he had a good
understanding of public records and Sunshine requirements, but as a result of this "ordeal" the entire board and Chip
Fletcher "has gotten a refresher course on retention and what needs to be saved." He issued a policy change to his
staff on how to respond to public record requests. It was his opinion there was not a consistent method for tracking
what information was requested, and who completed the request. He stated the issue with his personal email during
a June 2015 request was due to a lack of communication when he was not told about the request until September
2015. He completed the request within eleven (11) days. He had no intent to withhold the emails. He stated he went
"above and beyond" in what he released because most of the emails were clearly not county related, but he released
them anyway. He uses his personal email at times because it is "not as formal" and doesn't have to worry about
grammar or profanity, and "not worry about it being on the county server." He also stated he has had problems
with the county server and it is easier to respond to emails from home. He agreed the messages still needed to be
preserved if it was related to county business regardless of the email used. He stated he was not as engaged during
the TED/PLG process, because he had focused a lot of time and energy during the 2010 referendum. He stated he
remembered Mike Merrill coming to his office for a briefing and showing him a list of firms they were considering
for the GoHillsborough project. He could not remember if it was before or after the August 12, 2014 meeting. He
remembered seeing the firms of HNTB, HDR, and PB on the list, and Mr. Merrill mentioning something about New
York and Washington D.C. Mr. Merrill may have been talking about a communication company. He stated he had
no knowledge of the selection process and did not influence the decision to go with PB. He has known Beth Leytham
for nine (9) to ten (10) years and they have been good friends for seven (7) to eight (8) years. He did not know Ms.
Leytham was doing work or was under contract with PB prior to GoHillsborough. He knew of other companies she
represented, but PB was not one of them. The essence of her work was public relations and crisis management. He
stated he did have conversations with Ms. Leytham about the HART reorganization plan and the overall strategy
for GoHillsborough and "what is the best process to move forward," but she never asked for a vote, or a contract for
herself or any company. He stated Ms. Leytham never tried to influence him in any way for PB or herself. He was
not told by Ms. Leytham that PB had been selected. He thought he found out from a memo sent out by Mr. Merrill to
the TED/PLG members. He personally does not consider Ms. Leytham a lobbyist because "she never lobbied me."
He did not recall the meeting with her in 2014 when she signed the lobbyist registry representing a taxi company.
He described Ms. Leytham as "strategic" and a good friend. When asked about texting during the board meetings,
Commissioner Hagan stated he does it, but it's not "uncommon" and is usually "personal." He stated there are "no
rules forbidding it." Commissioner Hagan provided text message communication he had with Ms. Leytham.
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(See attached text message communication with Hagan-Leytham).

Subject: (Subject #20) MURMAN, SANDRA L
Related date/time: Dec-16-2015 (Wed.) 1305
Date and Time of 1st Interview: December 16, 2015, at 1305 hours
Synopsis:
Commissioner Murman was elected as a Hillsborough County Commissioner in 2010. Prior to election she served
in the State Legislature for eight (8) years, then took a six (6) year break. She stated she absolutely had a good
understanding of public records and knowing what needs to be preserved. Previously her method of preserving
text messages was to save it on the phone itself. Now she provides the phone to her staff once a week to gather
messages that need to be preserved. She discovered a setting on her phone deleted messages over two weeks old.
She went to Verizon to correct the problem. She stated she may have deleted messages that were business related,
unknowingly, because of the setting. The messages with Mike Merrill were deleted and that is why she sent the
copies from what Mr. Merrill provided. She did not purposely delete them to hide information. She first met Beth
Leytham in 1998 when Ms. Murman was campaigning for the legislature. Ms. Leytham helped walk door to door
in south Tampa. Ms. Murman described their relationship during 2014 as, "friendly, not particularly close, but I
mean we were friends." Commissioner Murman stated she knew Ms. Leytham was under contract with PB prior
to GoHillsborough based on her observations, not on anything Ms. Leytham shared with her. Ms. Leytham had
invited her to lunch with George Walton one time and she made the assumption at that time. Commissioner Murman
described Ms. Leytham as a "paid consultant." Commissioner Murman stated "she lobbies," but when asked if she
ever lobbied specifically for PB she stated "no." She stated Ms. Leytham was clearly "promoting Parsons," during
a phone conversation when Ms. Leytham said she would like to see PB get this (referring to the GoHillsborough
project). She could not recall when the conversation was held. Commissioner Murman stated she never took the
information about PB from Ms. Leytham and tried to influence any decision being made. When PB was chosen, she
did not know they would contract with Ms. Leytham. She did not try to influence the decision away from HDR when
she texted those comments to Mr. Merrill. She was sharing her opinion and was not directing him to do anything.
Commissioner Murman denied requesting the transportation outline Ms. Leytham emailed her before the TED/PLG
meeting on August 12, 2014. She stated Ms. Leytham sent that to her to "get some of the action." She stated she
would not have asked her for the outline, but Ms. Leytham was just giving her information which she used during
the TED/PLG meeting for "frame of reference." Commissioner Murman described that Ms. Leytham worked in
a "slow, methodical" way with "strategic positioning." She also described her as "aggressive" when asked about
their phone call records. "She was always pumping for information." Commissioner Murman stated she felt "used"
by Ms. Leytham and their friendship was used for her (Leytham's) personal gain. Commissioner Murman believed
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Ms. Leytham should have registered as a lobbyist, which is why the ordinance needs clarification. Commissioner
Murman explained she could not remember telling Ms. Leytham about engineering firms being called, during a
forty (40) minute conversation with Ms. Leytham on August 19, 2014. Commissioner Murman provided email
communication with Ms. Leytham from her personal account.
(See attached Personal Account Emails from Commissioner Murman #1-3).

Subject: (Subject #4) CLIFFORD, ROBERT
Related date/time: Dec-17-2015 (Thu.) 1004

Synopsis:
Mr. Clifford is the Area Manager for Parsons Brinckerhoff and joined the company in June of 2014. Prior to joining
PB, he was with the Tampa Bay Area Regional Transportation Authority (TBARTA) for five and a half (5 ) years.
Prior to TBARTA he worked for the Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) for approximately twelve (12)
years. Mr. Clifford stated Beth Leytham was hired by PB for communication, information, and to gather intelligence.
She is not a lobbyist and was not asked to help PB win a job or get votes. He was not aware of who was on the
selection team at the time of selection. He didn't remember the actual conversation, but he may have reached out
to friends from the other firms and determined John Lyons and Mike Williams were involved in the selection. He
did not have influence on PB being chosen. He did not contact anyone from the county or contacts he developed
from his time at FDOT and TBARTA to get PB selected. When Ms. Leytham contacted him and George Walton
about engineering firms being contacted, they did not make preparations for a "package" to be put together because
they did not know what the county needed.

Subject: (Subject #1) LEYTHAM, BETHANY
Related date/time: Dec-18-2015 (Fri.) 1130
Date and Time of Interview: December 18, 2015, from 1130 hours to 1400 hours
Present for interview: Corporal C. P. Hollis (ABN#5603), Detective T. Clark (ABN#173949), Detective S.
Portalatin (ABN#222593) and Robert Schimberg (Beth Leytham's Attorney)
Location of interview: 101 Kennedy Blvd, Tampa, FL 33602
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NOTE: under the direction of her attorney Beth Leytham did not consent to having her interview audio recorded.
Ms. Leytham expressed her concerns that Channel 10 would take portions of the recorded audio out of context in
order to present her in a poor manner.
Summary:
Ms. Leytham moved to the Tampa area in 1986 where she worked as a paralegal at the De La Parte and Gilbert
law firm until approximately 1997. Ms. Leytham started The Leytham Group in January of 2003 after developing
her skills as a public relations consultant spending several years as Vice President of Public Affairs for the Greater
Tampa Chamber of Commerce from 1999-2003. Ms. Leytham developed her style of public relations consulting
and developed contacts with the media while being mentored by Deanne Roberts.
Ms. Leytham first developed a relationship with Parsons Brinckerhoff (PB) in 2010 when a mutual contact, Joe
Killshiemer, made her aware a client was searching for someone in Tampa with her skill set. Mr.Killshiemer
introduced Ms. Leytham to Vincent Ragucci III who in turn introduced her to Charles Herndon, Tracy Hood and
George Walton who were with PB. Subsequently, Ms. Leytham began public relations work for PB in the Tampa
Bay region. Ms. Leytham signed a contract with PB for her public relations work in July of 2010. The contract has
been renewed on a yearly basis from 2010 to 2015, but Ms. Leytham was unable to locate and provide the Sheriff's
Office with a copy of her 2012 and 2013 contracts. Ms. Leytham was provided a copy of her 2010 PB contract
which she reviewed. After being awarded the contract, Ms. Leytham conducted a presentation to PB staff indicating
her strategy for helping the company meet its goals. Her strategy included recommending political contributions
and introducing PB personnel to individuals who would allow them the opportunity to raise their profile level. Ms.
Leytham mentioned it was her responsibility to ensure elected officials were able to recognize PB employees. It was
not her responsibility, nor was she ever asked to procure jobs for PB. Ms. Leytham would attend Board of County
Commission meetings and Tampa City Council meetings or watch them on television. Ms. Leytham would also
read articles to keep PB informed on what was happening in the community and make them aware of any potential
opportunities regarding policy and initiatives.
In 2011, Ms. Leytham recommended PB retain lobbyist Louis Betz to keep an eye on state legislative activity in
Tallahassee which could have an effect on PB's goals. Ms. Leytham was unaware if Mr. Betz was activated as
a lobbyist for any particular issue in Tallahassee on behalf of PB. Mr. Betz is named as a subcontractor under
Ms. Leytham in her 2011 PB contract. Ms. Leytham was aware Mr.Betz has been a lobbyist since she met him
approximately fifteen (15) years ago. To her knowledge, Mr. Betz has never lobbied for PB in Tampa. Although
Mr. Betz was retained as a lobbyist, Ms. Leytham was the point of contact on all things related to communications.
Ms. Leytham mentioned her involvement in the Invision project for the City of Tampa where AECOM hired her as
a subcontractor. PB had a small part of the project as well. Ms. Leytham believed her experience in working on the
Invision project is the reason some county commissioners were interested in her opinion or ideas on how to handle
the community outreach and public relations strategies for what would become known as GoHillsborough. In Ms.
Leytham's opinion, because Invision was so widely accepted as a success, it became the model for other projects
involving community outreach. Ms. Leytham believed county commissioners had knowledge of her partnership
with PB.
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Ms. Leytham was asked if she had a practice of telling people, particularly elected officials, the principles she
worked with when she approached them with business related conversations. Ms. Leytham explained she routinely
went to great extents to ensure people knew who she was representing if the conversation deemed it necessary. Ms.
Leytham explained she was only sharing her opinion with Mike Merrill and the county commissioners on how to
move forward. Ms. Leytham defended her belief that she is not the only person who can contact commissioners and
the mayor to share an opinion. She also mentioned those same elected officials would reach out to her on occasion
to seek her opinion on specific issues. Ms. Leytham believed it was her hard work and experience that made her
opinion valuable to them. She never acted as a lobbyist because she was not seeking work for herself or any of her
principles, specifically PB. Ms. Leytham also stated she never asked Mr. Merrill for work on behalf of PB or herself.
When asked if she ever told Commissioner Ken Hagan she worked with PB, Ms. Leytham related she could not
recall ever specifically mentioning she was under contract with PB. She believed Commissioner Hagan knew she
was working with PB, but she never told him she was. Ms. Leytham indicated she first met Commissioner Hagan
when he was elected to the Board of County Commission in 2002. At the time, Ms. Leytham was working at the
Greater Tampa Chamber of Commerce. Their relationship has developed over the years and he has become a friend
whom she speaks with almost daily. Ms. Leytham indicated, although they may not agree on many issues, they
have a mutual respect for each other's opinion and advice.
Ms. Leytham has known Commissioner Victor Crist for many years and she agreed her relationship with him can
be compared to that of a brother and sister. She also agreed after reviewing her correspondence with Commissioner
Crist, the language in her correspondence could appear "cringe worthy" to someone who does not understand the
context of their mutual candidness and straight talk. Ms. Leytham mentioned she first met Mayor Bob Buckhorn
while she was working at the De La Parte and Gilbert law firm in 1996.
Ms. Leytham was shown a copy of her April 2014 contract with PB. Ms. Leytham reviewed the contract and pointed
out the contract was not drafted as a result of any activity involving the TED/PLG, rather it was a continuation
of her ongoing responsibilities and contracts with PB since 2010. Ms. Leytham reiterated her contracts with PB
were renewed annually.
Ms. Leytham was asked about the editing and corrections she has performed for elected officials on speeches,
talking points, or other documents. Specifically, she was asked why she does not charge for these services she
provides. Ms. Leytham expressed as a favor she has edited talking points for Commissioner Sandra Murman and
other elected officials. Many of the edits were completed at the request of the elected officials. Ms. Leytham
believes Commissioner Murman asked her to complete the edits because Commissioner Murman had confidence
in her ability and experience. Ms. Leytham performed "minor corrections and tweaks" for talking points and did
not charge for these because it did not take her much time. She estimated on average it would take her fifteen (15)
minutes to review and edit the documents. She reiterated she would edit talking points and speeches for a number of
people she counted as friends. Ms. Leytham mentioned editing documents for Commissioners Murman and Hagan.
Ms. Leytham was asked if she had seen a work opportunity for PB in 2014. She replied, "not really". She went
on to mention an opportunity became possible when Mr.Merrill had a meeting at his office. During that meeting,
he rolled out his plans for transportation in Hillsborough County. Ms. Leytham was referring to the July 29, 2014,
media brief. Ms. Leytham was asked to describe the meeting. She recalled being at the County Center building the
day the meeting took place, but she does not recall why she was there. Ms. Leytham ran into Commissioner Mark
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Sharpe in the lobby and he invited her to go up to Mr. Merrill's meeting. Ms. Leytham was not aware the meeting
was taking place until Commissioner Sharpe told her about it. Commissioner Sharpe and Ms. Leytham walked
into the meeting at the same time. Once she entered, she realized it was a small meeting room and there were not
enough chairs for her to sit down. She noticed several members of the media there and asked Liana Lopez where
she could sit. Ms. Lopez told her the meeting was closed to the public and she would have to leave. Ms. Leytham
left the meeting room and remembered thinking the meeting was poorly handled because it was being held in a
public building, yet it was not open to the public. She was not a fan of the scroll used to unveil the county's future
plans for transportation. Ms. Leytham later spoke with some media personnel who were present at the meeting. She
thought the scroll reveal was not well received by anyone there.
Ms. Leytham first met Ms. Lopez when Ms. Lopez was handling public relations for Mayor Pam Iorio. Ms. Leytham
and Ms. Lopez did very little work together at that time. Ms. Leytham believed Ms. Lopez had a skill set which was
adequate for her work with the county, but did not benefit the county with their plans for the transportation initiative.
Immediately following the meeting on July 29, 2014, there was swift criticism by the media of the county's poor
public relations strategy. Ms. Leytham believed this criticism led commissioners and Mr. Merrill to question the
strategy they were using. There was a lot of discussion around that time of replicating the public relations success
the Invision project had.
Ms. Leytham was concerned with the information she was receiving from her contacts in the media after the
meeting on July 29, 2014, so she called Commissioner Murman and Mr. Merrill to advise them to reach out to
the editorial writers in the area and clarify their plans for the transportation initiative. Ms. Leytham explained she
has relationships with editorial writers at both the Tampa Bay Times and the Tampa Tribune. Because of her
relationships with the editorial writers, they sometimes reach out to her for her opinion on certain matters.
Ms. Leytham was asked if she began to position PB for some of the work the county revealed in their plans at
the July 29, 2014, meeting. Ms. Leytham stated she had been strategizing and positioning PB since 2010, but she
did not have any specific project in mind. It was her intent to put PB in the best position to be recognized as an
engineering firm which has a positive presence in the community and as subject matter experts.
Ms. Leytham was asked about a fitness studio where she, Commissioner Murman and Lucia Garsys attend. Ms.
Leytham described the fitness studio as having multiple fitness classes some of which they attended together. Ms.
Leytham became aware of the classes after being invited several times to attend by Commissioner Murman. Ms.
Leytham eventually joined the fitness studio in November 2013. Ms. Leytham, Ms. Garsys, and Commissioner
Murman would occasionally go out for coffee after workout sessions. Conversations would primarily be personal
in nature, but sometimes the conversations would lead to discussions about business, local events, or policy issues.
Some of those conversations were about transportation, however; she never asked Commissioner Murman or Ms.
Garsys to hire her or PB for any project in the county. Ms. Leytham stressed they never discussed items that would
be going before the commission for a vote. Ms. Leytham recalled Commissioner Murman would be the person to
shift the conversations from personal to business. The conversations did not always only focus on transportation
issues, but rather followed the topics relevant to the community at that time.
Ms. Leytham mentioned Commissioner Murman called her on August 12, 2014, before the scheduled TED/PLG
meeting. Commissioner Murman requested an outline which followed the frame work of the Invision plan. Through
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previous discussions with Ms. Leytham, Commissioner Murman knew she had an outline for the Invision project
that could be used to guide the county's transportation initiative. Ms. Leytham made changes to the Invision outline
prior to e-mailing it to Commissioner Murman before the TED/PLG meeting began. Ms. Leytham was provided a
copy of the outline for her review (which was previously provided to Investigators by her attorney). After reviewing
the document, Ms. Leytham agreed it was the outline she sent to Commissioner Murman. Ms. Leytham was provided
a copy of the minutes from the August 12, 2014, TED/PLG meeting for review. After reviewing a portion of
the minutes, Ms. Leytham noted the similarities between the outline she provided to Commissioner Murman and
the statements Commissioner Murman made during the meeting (refer to page 16 of the TED/PLG meeting
transcript). Ms. Leytham reiterated she was only helping her friend by providing her with the outline and at no
time did she ask for work for herself or PB. The outline was already completed and it took very little time to "tweak
it" for Commissioner Murman's needs.
Ms. Leytham was provided a copy of her phone records from August 12, 2014, which showed she had a three (3)
minute and a seven (7) minute conversation with Commissioner Murman prior to the e-mail she sent to her. Ms.
Leytham agreed during those conversations, Commissioner Murman requested the outline. The phone records also
showed contact with Mayor Buckhorn and Commissioner Hagan during August 2014. She advised many of those
conversations were personal as they were good friends and spoke about many things. Ms. Leytham did agree some
of those conversations were about transportation and other business related topics. She could not recall specifics
about the conversations. Ms. Leytham reiterated she was typically sharing her opinion on certain policy matters.
Ms. Leytham was asked about her phone conversations with Mr. Merrill. She indicated she was trying to make Mr.
Merrill aware of issues with the community outreach strategy the county had been using. Ms. Leytham believed
the strategy was headed in the wrong direction and she wanted to make Mr. Merrill aware. Ms. Leytham reiterated
during her conversations with Mr. Merrill, she told him she was not looking for work. Ms. Leytham was asked if
she ever mentioned PB during her conversations with Mr. Merrill and she stated, "Absolutely not! Never." Ms.
Leytham was asked if her conversations with Mr. Merrill could be viewed as a deliverable for her work with PB.
Ms. Leytham answered, "No, it definitely was not a deliverable. I was only sharing my opinion with him. I do
not know how he (Mr. Merrill) accepted my opinion." Ms. Leytham went on to say Mr. Merrill never once told
her he liked her ideas or that he would use them.
Ms. Leytham was provided copies of several e-mails obtained from PB for her review. Ms. Leytham was shown
an e-mail she sent to Robert Clifford on August 11, 2014, at 8:05 A.M. In that e-mail, Ms. Leytham updated
Mr. Clifford on a conversation she had with Mr. Merrill that same day related to transportation. Ms. Leytham
was subsequently shown her phone records which confirmed she had a twenty (20) minute conversation with Mr.
Merrill prior to her e-mail. Ms. Leytham agreed the conversation is the same one she references in the e-mail to
Mr. Clifford. Ms. Leytham also indicated during her conversation with Mr. Merrill, she realized Ms. Lopez was
"out of her element." Ms. Leytham mentioned to Investigators she was not intending to insult Ms. Lopez by her
statement, but only meant to say Ms. Lopez did not have a lot of experience dealing with projects such as the one
the county was working on at that time.
Ms. Leytham was asked when she first learned PB was selected for the transportation initiative. Ms. Leytham
indicated she was not sure, but thought she learned it from PB on August 26, 2014. Ms. Leytham was shown a copy
of an e-mail dated August 19, 2014, authored by Mr. Clifford stating he had just gotten off of the phone with Ms.
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Leytham and PB should be expecting a phone call from the county. Ms. Leytham agreed she had been speaking
with Commissioner Murman prior to the conversation she had with Mr. Clifford, which led him to author that email. Ms. Leytham was shown a copy of her phone records for August 19, 2014, and was asked to describe the forty
(40) minute conversation she had with Commissioner Murman at 5:01 P.M. Ms. Leytham did not remember what
the entire conversation was about, but remembered Commissioner Murman telling her either PB would be getting a
call from the county or that the county was going to start calling engineering firms about the transportation project.
Ms. Leytham remembered the conversation was a long one, but Commissioner Murman did not only talk about
transportation. Ms. Leytham remembered calling Mr. Clifford after her conversation with Commissioner Murman,
to tell him PB would be getting a phone call from the county about their interest in working on the transportation
referendum.
Ms. Leytham was asked about the phone calls she made to Mr. Betz and Mr. Walton immediately after her
conversation with Commissioner Murman, but before calling Mr. Clifford. She explained she was calling Mr.
Walton to make him aware of the information she received about a potential phone call regarding PB's interest in the
project. She does not remember why she called Mr. Betz. To her recollection, Mr. Walton was traveling at the time
and he was unaware of anything going on. She does not believe she was able to speak with Mr. Betz or Mr. Walton
at that point. The phone records indicated the phone calls only lasted two minutes each. Ms. Leytham was adamant
she was never told by Commissioner Murman or anyone else that PB would be the firm selected. Commissioner
Murman never told her who was on the Selection Committee. Ms. Leytham was under the impression there was
going to be a procurement for the selection process.
Ms. Leytham stated the forty (40) minute conversation with Commissioner Murman reflected in her phone records
was initiated by Commissioner Murman. Ms. Leytham reiterated she did not have knowledge at that time of the
process used to make the selection. Ms. Leytham stated Commissioner Murman told her engineering firms would be
called. Commissioner Murman also spoke about possibly hiring a political firm. Ms. Leytham told Commissioner
Murman it would be a bad idea to hire a political firm. Ms. Leytham told Mr. Merrill in a text message she believed
there would be procurement issues if a full procurement was not completed and not to hire a political firm. Ms.
Leytham also stated, "Merrill did it anyway (no procurement) and Chip Fletcher said it was O.K. to do."
Ms. Leytham had been trying to explain to Commissioner Murman and Mr. Merrill that using a political firm would
have been detrimental. She was trying to stress the importance of community outreach. Community outreach would
help prioritize the projects the community viewed as most important. Ms. Leytham believed Commissioner Murman
introduced Mr. Merrill to Adam Goodman because Commissioner Murman was "playing both sides." Ms. Leytham
recalled Commissioner Murman was the most interested about transportation at that time, but Commissioner Hagan
was not. Ms. Leytham did not speak to Mr. Merrill much, but when she did she provided him with her opinion
on variety of topics. Ms. Leytham felt because she had been involved in the Invision project and because it was
viewed as a success, her opinion was welcomed and could be considered an educated opinion.
It was explained Commissioner Murman mentioned Ms. Leytham boasted about making a lot of money and Ms.
Leytham continually promoted PB during their conversations. Ms. Leytham was asked if Commissioner Murman's
claims were true. Ms. Leytham disagreed strongly with Commissioner Murman's claims. Investigators specifically
asked Ms. Leytham, "Did you say that?" She responded, "Absolutely not!" Ms. Leytham became adamant as she
strongly denied ever asking Commissioner Murman for any work on behalf of herself or PB.
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Ms. Leytham was asked about her relationship with Lucia Garsys. Ms.Leytham explained she met Ms. Garsys
sometime between 2005-2006, when they were both working on a task force for affordable housing.
Ms. Leytham was asked about the lobbyist registry forms she filled out in 2013 and 2014. Ms. Leytham never
considered herself a lobbyist even though she filled out the forms. She explained this was done out of an "abundance
of caution." She went on to state even when she filled out the lobbyist forms she was not "lobbying" commissioners.
She did not believe she was lobbying because she was not trying to position herself or seek any votes. Ms. Leytham
would never accept work requiring her to ask elected officials for votes to benefit her clients. Ms. Leytham reviewed
Hillsborough County's definition of a lobbyist and in her opinion she does not fit that definition. Ms. Leytham
described herself as a "strategist." She contacted Mr. Merrill and the commissioners to share her opinion so they
would not "fail." She was only trying to help them because she believed the direction they were heading in was
not the best for them or the community.
Ms. Leytham was asked if she had a chance to review the state of Florida's definition of a lobbyist. Ms. Leytham
did review the state's definition and agreed some of those elements could apply to her. She agreed, although she
does not consider herself a lobbyist, there are changes that need to be made to the county's definition which will
clear things up in the future. She understood any revision of the county's definition would more than likely follow
the state's broader definition, which in turn could label some of the work she does as lobbying.
Ms. Leytham was asked if she remembered speaking with either Mr. Walton or Mr. Clifford and mentioning her
belief PB had an opportunity for leadership based on what she was hearing from Commissioners Murman and
Hagan. Ms. Leytham paused for a moment and appeared to not have clearly understood the question. The question
was repeated while providing Ms. Leytham a copy of the e-mail authored by Mr. Walton on August 13, 2014, where
Mr. Walton mentions, "We may have an opportunity for leadership if we choose. I get the sense from Beth that
Ken, Sandy and others may want our help."
Ms. Leytham expressed she was confused by the order of the e-mails she was being shown. She requested if they
could be organized in chronological order prior to being presented to her. Investigators explained the order of the emails being presented was in the order of the questions. The question about the e-mail was restated to Ms. Leytham,
who again expressed her frustration with the order of the documents being presented. Ms. Leytham appeared
aggravated and was asked by her attorney to step outside of the room with him. Approximately five minutes
later, Ms. Leytham re-entered the room with her attorney. Ms. Leytham apologized for getting upset and explained
she was frustrated because the order in which the documents were being presented to her were confusing. She
understood the relevance of the documents being presented, but would have preferred them to be in chronological
order to help her recollection.
Ms. Leytham went on to explain she had no recollection of ever using the words "opportunity for leadership" when
speaking to Mr. Clifford or Mr. Walton. She further explained Mr. Walton often spoke in that manner and she is not
sure what he meant in the e-mail. Ms. Leytham was asked about an e-mail conversation authored by Mr. Clifford
on August 22, 2014. In her response, she was inquiring who was on the "Selection Committee." In that particular email, Mr. Clifford replied to Ms. Leytham's question by stating, "sounded like Merrill, Lyons, Williams with advise/
input from Scully." Ms. Leytham sent another reply and asked, "Lucia too..Minute you hear will you text me?"
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After reviewing the document, Ms. Leytham stated she wanted to know who was on the Selection Committee so
she would not inadvertently speak to them and cause any problems. Ms. Leytham also clarified when responding,
"Lucia too" there was supposed to be a question mark after, "too." She wanted to know who to stay away from at
that time. Ms. Leytham indicated she did not know John Lyons, Mike Williams or Larry Scully. She also insisted
she did not speak to any of those men mentioned during the selection process. Ms. Leytham had spoken to Ms.
Garsys around that time, but only because Ms. Garsys had been very ill and she was calling to check up on her.
Ms. Leytham believes Mr. Clifford knew who was on the Selection Committee because he had been speaking with
the county. Ms. Leytham was adamant no one from the county told her who was on the Selection Committee. Ms.
Leytham restated, "the county should have done a full RFP for this position and a lot of headaches would have
been avoided."
Ms. Leytham was asked about the text messages sent between herself and Commissioner Hagan during the Board
of County Commission (BOCC) meeting on October 7, 2015. Ms. Leytham laughed and went on to say she was not
at the BOCC meeting, but was watching on television. Ms. Leytham indicated she has told Commissioner Hagan
he should not text during the meetings.
Ms. Leytham concluded the interview by explaining she believes she has always tried to do everything with
transparency and honesty. She is very aware there is a small group of people who have been attacking her personally
because of their disapproval of anything involving a tax referendum. Ms. Leytham believes the attack against her
is a desperate attempt by that small group of people to keep the referendum from the ballot in 2016.

Subject: (Subject #32) WALTON, GEORGE
Related date/time: Dec-18-2015 (Fri.) 1421

Synopsis:
Mr. Walton is the Senior Vice President, Southeast Regional Manager for PB and has been at PB for twentyone (21) years. Beth Leytham was hired by PB to assist in getting PB involved at the local level, to "elevate our
profile in communities" Ms. Leytham helped with introductions, not to just elected officials, but others in the
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business community. Ms. Leytham is a consultant/advocate. Ms. Leytham was monitoring what was going on in
the community. Mr. Walton did get information from Ms. Leytham about getting a call from the county, but he
didn't act on it because he did not know what information the county wanted. Mr. Walton stated he did not tell Ms.
Leytham to use her relationships to influence PB being selected. "She would not do that." She was never asked to
get a vote. Her role was for consulting, guiding, advocacy, and advice. Mr. Walton stated she was not a lobbyist.

Subject: (Subject #27) BETZ, LOUIS G Ma
Related date/time: Dec-22-2015 (Tue.) 1340

Location of Interview: 2008 E. 8th Ave, Tampa, FL 33605
Present for interview: Corporal C. P. Hollis (ABN#5603) and Detective T. Clark (ABN#173949)
NOTE: At the request of Mr. Betz, for fear of misuse by the media, the interview was not audio recorded.
Summary:
He has known Beth Leytham for approximately ten (10) years and met her at the Tampa Chamber of Commerce.
He has been a professional lobbyist since 1993 with Louis Betz and Associates.
In 2011, he was hired by Ms. Leytham as a sub-consultant. His primary focus was to monitor legislative matters in
Tallahassee, FL, particularly with House Bill (HB) 135 (Procurement Services). He described his relationship with
Ms. Leytham as professional, but from the stand point of a "love/hate and brother/sister" relationship. He described
Ms. Leytham as a hard worker and as someone who has influence with reporters at the Tampa Bay Times and
Tampa Tribune, particularly with the editorial writers.
During 2014, he was involved heavily with the red light camera issue and much of his conversations with Ms.
Leytham related to that issue. Regarding transportation involving the TED/PLG group, he was not involved. Ms.
Leytham did not request his assistance and he did not involve himself with the transportation initiative.
He did speak with Mike Merrill in the past relating to two prior transportation packages that had failed. He believed
those conversations occurred well before any discussion of engaging the assistance of a private engineering firm
for the GoHillsborough Transportation Initiative. During those discussions, he spoke about polling he had done
(unrelated to any work he was hired to do for Beth Leytham) but related to a possible referendum after the 2010
failure and he didn't see much support for it.
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He denied lobbying on behalf of Parsons Brinckerhoff for the Transportation Initiative, later known as
GoHillsborough. He denied attempting to influence the selection process and did not know who was involved. He
was asked if Beth Leytham asked him to lobby or influence the hiring of PB for the Transportation Initiative and
he responded "Never." When asked about the 90 plus phone calls between him and Ms. Leytham during August
2014, he responded many were probably related to the red light camera issue. He again denied involvement with
the Transportation Initiative as Ms. Leytham wanted to handle that issue without his assistance.
He stated the lobbying rules in Hillsborough County need to mirror the rules in Tallahassee for better transparency
and to avoid confusion as to who is or is not a lobbyist.
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Assigned to: 173949 - Clark, Trent T Rank: Detective
Capacity: Other Follow Up Org unit: _Intelligence Coordination Section SIICU
Assigned on: Oct-01-2015 (Thu.) 908 by: 5603 - Hollis, Charles P
Report due on: Mar-29-2016 (Tue.)
Submitted on: Jan-28-2016 (Thu.) 1444
Checked by: 5603 - Hollis, Charles P
Approved on: Jan-28-2016 (Thu.) by: 5603 - Hollis, Charles P

Document: DETECTIVE FOLLOW UP
Author: 173949 - Clark, Trent T
Related date/time: Jan-22-2016 (Fri.) 1508
On October 1, 2015, I was assigned to assist Corporal Charles Hollis #5603 and Detective Samuel Portalatin
#222593 with the GoHillsborough Investigation. See master report for details of my involvement in the
investigation.
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Clearance Information
Agency: Hillsborough County
Cleared status: Not Applicable - Not Applicable
Cleared on: Feb-26-2016 (Fri.)
Cleared by Officer 1: 5603 - Hollis, Charles P
Org Unit: PST00 - Professional Standards Section PST00
Approved by: 3655 - St John, Thomas M
Org Unit: PST00 - Professional Standards Section PST00
Complainant/Victim notified: NO
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Related Property Report(s)

Report Information
Property Report #: 535855
Property case status: EVIDENCE
Submitted on: Feb-26-2016 (Fri.)
Related:
Offense: GO HS 2015- 691857
Location: 2008 8TH AV E
Municipality: TAMPA
District: T3 Zone: TF6
Related items: 1
by: Clark, Trent T
Articles
Status: EVIDENCE
Tag #: HS535855- 1
Article: YDOCUME- OTHER ITEMS (MISCELLANEOUS)
Make: NO BRA
Serial # 1: UNKNOWN
OAN:
Value: $0.00
Color:
Description: SUBPOENA FOR RECORDS
Recovered date: Recovered value: $0.00
Current Location: W1 GEN/03/B/08/E
Flags = d (disposed) x (x-reference) n (entered on NCIC) *e (evidence)
For: 4602
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*** END OF HARDCOPY ***
For: 4602
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PROPERTY REPORT HARDCOPY
PR#: 538927
GO HS 2015-691857
Related Property Report(s)

Report Information
Property Report #: 538927
Property case status: EVIDENCE
Submitted on: Mar-14-2016 (Mon.)
Related:
Offense: GO HS 2015- 691857
Location: 601 KENNEDY BL E
Municipality: TAMPA
District: T3 Zone: TF4
Related items: 2
by: Portalatin, Samuel V
Articles - Evidence
Status: EVIDENCE
Tag #: HS538927- 1
Article: YDOCUME- OTHER ITEMS (MISCELLANEOUS)
Make: NO BRA
Model:
# of pieces: 1
Serial # 1: UNKNOWN
OAN:
Value: $1.00
Color:
Description: STATE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE FINDINGS LETTER
Flags: *e
Current Location: UNKNOWN
Articles - Evidence
Status: EVIDENCE
Tag #: HS538927- 2
Article: DDISK- DATA PROCESSING EQUIPMENT
Make: NO BRA
Model:
# of pieces: 1
Serial # 1: NA87NTB3
OAN:
Value: $1.00
Color: Black
Description: HARD DRIVE CONTAINING WORKING FILES
Flags: *e
Current Location: UNKNOWN
Flags = d (disposed) x (x-reference) n (entered on NCIC) *e (evidence)
By ispano at 2:01 pm, Mar 14, 2016
For: 198365
Printed On: Mar-14-2016 (Mon.)
Page 1 of 2

PROPERTY REPORT HARDCOPY
PR#: 538927
GO HS 2015-691857
For: 198365
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NARRATIVE TEXT HARDCOPY
ASSIST OTHER AGENCY

DETECTIVE FOLLOW UP
On March 14, 2016, I was contacted by Chief Assistant Michael Sinacore of the State Attorney's
Office and made aware State Attorney Mark Ober had completed his review of this case. I responded to the State
Attorney's Office located at 419 N. Pierce Street to obtain the State Attorney's Office Findings Letter. I attached
a digital copy of the letter to this report. The original letter will be impounded.
MRE Attachments:
-None
Author:Portalatin, Samuel V
Related date:Mar-14-2016 (Mon.) 1316
By ispano at 2:00 pm, Mar 14, 2016
For: 198365
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Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office

Public Records Exemptions

ACCOUNT NUMBERS FS 119.071(5)b

ACTIVE INVESTIGATION FS 119.071(2)(c)1

AGENCY PERSONNEL INFORMATION FS 119.07(4)

ALARM CALL VIOLATION FS 119.071(3)

CHILD ABUSE FS 119.071(2)(h)1

CONFIDENTIAL INFORMANTS/SOURCE FS 119.071(2)(f)

CRIMINAL INTELLIGENCE INFORMATION FS 119.071(2)(h)2

EMERGENCY COMMUNICATIONS E911 VOICE RECORDINGS - FS 365.171(12)

FCIC/NCIC INFORMATION FS 943.053(2) & (3)

JUVENILE OFFENDER RECORDS (CONFIDENTIALITY) FS 985.04(1)

SEXUAL OFFENSE FS 119.071(2)(h)1 & FS 794.024

SOCIAL SECURITY FS 119.071(5)5

UNDERCOVER PERSONNEL FS 119.071(4)(c)

OTHER Tax ID Number

Revised: G:/dos/hrb/RECORDS SECTION/COMMON/PROCEDURES/EXEMPTIONS Revised 02/23/16 JS4324

HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SHERIFF

ASSIST-1 ASSIST OTHER AGENCY

General Offense Information

By glawson at 2:51 pm, Mar 03, 2016

Printed On: Feb-29-2016 (Mon.)

By amedina at 12:38 pm, Mar 03, 2016

HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SHERIFF

ASSIST-1 ASSIST OTHER AGENCY

Related Image - Other Misc. Documents

HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, FLORIDA

November 13, 2015/1037 hours

And can you spell the last name?

And sir, you're aware our conversation is being recorded?

And I have your permission?

Thank you. Also present for the interview....

Detective Sam Portalatin, ABN 222593.

Detective Trent Clark, ABN 173949.

Printed On: Feb-29-2016 (Mon.)

HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SHERIFF

ASSIST-1 ASSIST OTHER AGENCY

HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, FLORIDA

Thank you. So you are a commissioner with Hillsborough County.

As elected, in 2006, November.

Okay. And you've been reelected since then.

Because are they 4-year?

I served two 4-year terms and then in 2014, I was elected to a

Very good. And prior to being commissioner, some of your work

Prior to this, I was a motivational speaker. Traveled the country

Okay. Very good. Did you grow up in this area?

Oh, very good.

Very good. Obviously, we're here about the Go Hillsborough

Printed On: Feb-29-2016 (Mon.)

HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SHERIFF

ASSIST-1 ASSIST OTHER AGENCY

HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, FLORIDA

I spoke in opposition to the referendum over 80 times, so I took a

We had our last meeting last week.

Yes. Okay. So that was officially the last meeting?

I don't anticipate them calling another meeting.

Okay. What was the purpose of forming that group?

In the beginning and then.... I look at my job as an elected official as

Printed On: Feb-29-2016 (Mon.)

HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY SHERIFF

ASSIST-1 ASSIST OTHER AGENCY

HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, FLORIDA

Okay. And in talking with Mike Merrill, he kind of in a way helped