12/8/2015

GasTurbineinBaseLoadwithDroopSpeedcontrol

GasTurbineinBaseLoadwithDroopSpeedcontrol
ClarificationaboutGasturbineoperationinbaseloadwithdifferentloadcontrols
Bysriramsandeepon19June,20132:54pm
Dearall,
ourmachineGE9fawithMKviecontroller.GenerallyGasturbineinbaseloadoperationmeansitis
undercpr/cpdexhausttemperaturecontrol(whenwegivethecommandLoadselectasbaseload)
Butrecentlybyseeingsomepostsincontrol.comIhavegotonedoubthowcanweoperatethe
machineinbaseloadwithdroopspeedcontrol.aswhenwearesayingbaseloadallthetimeiusedto
consideritisundercpr/cpdexhausttemperaturecontrol.
Isitinthisway.amiright?
Loadselectionwillbeinpreselectloadonly,butwewillgivetheMWsetpointneartothebaseload
ratingsothatitwillstayindroopspeedcontrolwithouttransferringtoexhausttemperaturecontrolor
istheresomeotherway?kindlyclarify...
andincaseofisochronouscontroliunderstandthatthecontrollertriestomaintainthegridfrequency
whichisviceversatoothercontrolsofGasturbinelikeexhausttempcontrolanddroopspeed
control.butmyconcernisincaseofotherthanisochronouscontrolgridfrequencyeffectsthe
machineoperationaloutputfrequencyandhencetheoutputproducedbygasturbine.so,in
isochronouscontrolasthoughtherecentpostsiunderstandthemachinewilladjustthefuelflowto
maintainthegridfrequencywhichisveryoddtohear(veryhardtoimaginegasturbinethermal
stresseseventhoughgridissomewhatreasonablystable).isthereanygridfrequencysetpointwhen
operatinginisochronouscontrol???
Anotherdoubt...
fewweeksbackourmachineoperatedonbaseloadthattimeTTXMis629degc..butwhereasduring
preselectloadoperationtheTTXMismaintainingaround648degc.Duringbaseloadoperationitis
followingTTRXasTTRXB(speedbiased)whichisminimumvalue.butincaseofpreselectload
operationTTRXisnotTTRXB(morevalue)butlessvaluethanTTRXB.why?
Asinbaseloadandunderexhausttemperaturecontrolspeedtronictriestoputmorefueltomaintain
thehigherexhausttemperatures.butwhyitsnothappeninghere?

ByCSA

on19June,201311:30pm

Hi,
Idon'tknowwheretostart.
WhentheunitisatPartLoadtheIGVsarenotfullyopen,sotheexhausttemperaturecanbehigher
thanwhentheunitisatBaseLoadpartofthedefinitionofBaseLoadistheIGVsmustbefull
open,whichmeanstheexhausttemperaturemaybe(usuallyis)lowerbecausethemassflowofair
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12/8/2015

GasTurbineinBaseLoadwithDroopSpeedcontrol

throughthemachineishigherwhentheIGVsarefullyopen.
HavealookattheexampleoftheexhausttemperaturecontrolcurveinSect.03oftheControl
Specification.Ithasanegativeslopewhichiscounterintuitive.Yestheexhausttemperature
generallyincreasesasloadincreases,butastheunitnearsBaseLoadtheexhausttemperaturewill
decreaseasloadincreases.And,whentheunitisatBaseLoadonexhausttemperaturecontrolthe
exhausttemperaturewilldecreaseasloadincreasesanditwilldecreaseasloaddecreases.Again,
it'scounterintuitivebutthat'sthewaycombustionturbineswork.Youmightdoubtthat,butthat's
thewayitis.
Ifyouputaloadsetpointinthatishigherthantheunitcanachieve(becauseitgoesonexhaust
temperaturecontrol)thenit'snotonDroopSpeedControlanditisonexhausttemperaturecontrol.
That'sbecausetheFSRMinimumSelectfunctionchoosesFSRTbecauseitwillbelessthanFSRN
becausetheloadsetpointwilldriveFSRNtobehigherthanFSRT.
IfyouwanttoruntheunitonDroopSpeedControl,itdoesNOThavetobeinPreSelectedLoad
Control.YoucanjustclickonLOWERSPD/LDuntilFSRNislessthanFSRT(whichiswhenload
willstarttodecrease)andwhenyoureachtheloadyouwanttomaintainjuststopclickingon
LOWERSPD/LD.Ifthefrequencyislowerthanitshouldbetheunitshouldbeincreasingload
notmaintainingloadwhichisactuallyexacerbatingthefrequencyexcursion.Idon'tunderstand
whatyou'retryingtoaccomplishbykeepingtheunitinDroopSpeedControlnearBaseLoad
unlessit'sbecauseyouwanttohavetheunitincreaseloadwhenfrequencyislessthanrated.
Iftheunitissynchronizedtoagridwithotherturbinegeneratorsitshouldnotbeoperatedin
isochronousspeedcontrolespeciallyifthegridfrequencyislessthannominal.And,theunit
shouldnotbeatornearBaseLoadwhenitisbeingoperatedinisochronousspeedcontrol.Because
whenthegridfrequencydecreasesandtheunittriestorespondbyincreasingloaditwillhitBase
Loadveryquicklywhichmeansitwon'tbeabletodoanymore.Worse,whenagasturbineisat
BaseLoadandthefrequencydecreasesthepoweroutputwillnotstayatrateditwilldecrease
whichmakesthefrequencyproblemworse.
So,it'snotpossibletobeonbothDroopSpeedControlandexhausttemperaturecontrolatthesame
time.
Doesthishelpatall?

ByCSA

on20June,20133:47pm

>>CORRECTION<<
WhenaGEdesignheavydutygasturbineisoperatingonexhausttemperaturecontrolasload
increasesexhausttemperaturewilldecrease.
WhenaGEdesignheavydutygasturbineisoperatingonexhausttemperaturecontrolasload
decreasesexhausttemperaturewillincrease.

Byrikoon21June,20132:59am
CSAsir,itisagreatanswer.
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GasTurbineinBaseLoadwithDroopSpeedcontrol

Justwanttoputsomeadditionalinformation.
Ioperatefr6GEwithmk6controlsystem.Becausemanagementpolicy,wesettheload34MW
whichis1MWlowerthanthebaseloadpower(baseload=35).Atthisconditiontheloadis
changingaccordingtothefrequencyexactlyasMrCSAexplained.Icanseeitclearlyon
SIGNALTRENDapplication.Itrequiresyoutopauseandzoomthegraphicsbeforeyoufindit,
prettysmallfluctuationhappensthere.MrCSAmaycalleditnegativegradient,butIcallit
negativelycorrelated.Asfrequencyincrease,theload(andFSR,andtempexhaust)will
decrease.Viseversa.
Butaround5monthsfromnow,theexhausttemperaturewillincreaseduetocompressorfouling
(commonproblemongt).atthissituationtheloadwillchangeaccordingtothetemperature
exhaust.Atthesameload,butduetocompressorfouling,thetempexhaustincreaseandturbine
controlnolongercontrollingthefrequency.Asthetempincreasetheloaddecrease.The
negativecorrelationisnowbetweentemperatureandload(nolongerbetweenthefrequencyand
load).
Itsallbecauseoftheminimumvalueselectorappliedthere.Whichoneisminimum,FSRNor
FSRT,willbechosenasthefinalFSR.Strictlysaidthatallthegasturbinecontrolmanufacturer
ihavedealtwithappliedthesamephilosophy(Siemens,Trisen,etc).Becauseitensuressafety
operationofgasturbine.
IcansaythatFSRNisdroopmodeandFSRTintemperaturecontrolmode.Theycannotbeat
thesametimeasMrCSAsaid.
Hopeithelps
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