Jerry

Qiao
10/29/14
ED111 Interview #3 Analysis


This interview was conducted with a 4th grader at the Linden STEAM
Academy. For the purposes of this interview, his name will be Sam. The question I
asked had to do with a naturally occurring phenomenon that happens during this
time of the year, particularly in New England. I framed the question by having Sam
look outside the window and look at all the different colored trees. I then posed the
question: why/how do leaves change colors from the summer to the fall? For about
15 minutes, Sam and I discussed this phenomenon. In this transcript, J refers to
me, the interviewer, and S refers to Sam, the interviewee.

I.

J: How come the leaves change colors on those trees?
S: Oh! Thats because every season the trees change the colors. Like when its summer
its green and when its winterwait no, fall, it uhhthe leaves turn yellow and orange.
And when its winter, the leaves fall off.
J: Ok so why does the colors change between summer and right now? Why do you think
they change?
S: Maybe its like part of the cycle. Like where like the trees fall offwhen the leaves
fall off. Like the thing could get water, like suck up the water maybe?
J: Sorry could you repeat that again?
S: Maybe like in the winter, because maybe the waterwait in the fall maybe because
the leaves are changing colors becauseughhh
J: Just give me a best guess. I honestly dont know what the real reason is either.
S: Maybe its because part of a cycle? Maybe like when the leaves fall off? Maybe when
it rains sometimes the leaves collect water and the tree also gets some water and when
the leaves fall off the tree could survive with the water inside of it.
J: You said something really interesting. You said that something gets the water. And
the tree survives? Could you talk about that a little more?
S: Cuz the water like sometimes water can help plants or anything survive.
J: Water helps things survive. Ok.
S: And like it maybe the roots down below could store the water, so it could survive.
And like feeding it water at the same time when its about to die, it needs water.

There was quite a bit of thought during this process. At the start, Sam seemed

quite sure he had a solid answer. He was quick to respond, but his initial response
simply restated the observations we had made prior to the question being posed.
Similarly, when I asked him to explain it, his first response was very quick: Maybe
its like part of the cycle. Whether or not hes thought about it intently before, Sam
seemed to understand that the changing of colors of leaves seemed to occur in
cycles. Most likely, Sam has observed subconsciously that the leaves change colors
and eventually fall off, but eventually come back again.

Once Sam began his explanation of the actual why or how, he began bouncing

different ideas. He begins making several unrelated guesses, or it seems at the time.
Sam mentions cycle again and introduces the idea of the connection between leaves
and water. At this point in the interview, I was a little bit confused; I wasnt sure
how they were connected. I would later find that all these thoughts would be woven
together in his explanation.

II.

J: Im also interested as to why the leaves fall off during the winter. Why do you say
that?
S: Maybe it tells the tree its wintertime and when to use the water?
J: It tells the tree when to use the water. What do you think is happening when the
leaves fall off? Could you talk about that a little more?
S: Oh I dont know. Let me thinkwait can you say that question again?
J: So the leaves fall off during the winter. How does that tell youand you said that
when it falls off, it tells the tree that its the winterto let the tree know to use up the
water.
S: When to use the water.
J: Yeah.
S: Wait no it does not tell when to use the water. The roots do, I think? The leaves fall
maybe becauseummm. Oh I think I know why. Maybe when the snow melts into like
some kind of water, it might not help the tree survive. That water might be different
than the water it rains maybe?

J: So youre saying theres a different kind of water that rains during the---
S: Like when the snow melts, maybe it turns into a different water the tree doesnt like
and maybe the tree might die because of it.


After a little bit of conversation about our observations of the trees being
different colors, we began talking about the end result of all the leaves changing
color: they fall off in the winter. Here, Sam brings back one of his ideas from earlier.
He continues to expand his explanation of water being an important factor in the
change of the leaves. From Section I, Sam understands the importance of water for
the survival of plants and trees. From that logical standpoint, it must therefore be
the lack of water that causes these leaves to fall off. Sam hints at the fact that there is
some storing mechanism that trees have involving the roots (and perhaps leaves as
well). Trees need to be able to have enough water to survive the winter and the
leaves play a role in that somehow.

Towards the middle of this section, Sam gets one of those light bulb

moments. He seemed headstrong in his thought regarding a water-storing

mechanism but seemed to shift gears ever so slightly. He introduces the idea of
snow for the first time. Sam understands that snow melts into water and that there
is something about the melted snow that differs from normal rain. That difference is
what causes the tree to die. This seems like a perfectly logical explanation for Sam,
as his experiences would back up his thoughts. He probably recalled that around the
time that leaves fall off, snow falls for the first time as well. Correlating the two
events and associating one as the cause for the other could have become the roots of
this theory.


III.

J: Does the tree actually die?
S: No. Not unless someone cuts it.
J: If no one cuts it, what happens to the tree?
S: It survives.
J: Okay. You used die earlier. Did you want to change it to another word?
S: Like maybeughit cant grow leaves anymore? Cuz that water could affect when
the leaves grow.
J: Lets say it snows during the winter and all the leaves fall off. You said that right?
S: Yeah
J: What happens when its spring again?
S: The leaves grow back?
J: Why do the leaves grow back then? You just said---
S: Ohhh.
J: You just said the tree dies.
S: Maybe the tree could likecould never grow stuff again?
J: So if the tree gets some of the water from the snow, all the leaves fall off, and during
the spring, no leaves could grow back?
S: Yeah
J: Is it going to snow this winter?
S: Yeah
J: Probably, right? So whats going to happen to those trees outside? Are those trees
not going to grow back anymore? Are there going to be no leaves when you come back
in the fall?
S: They will, if no snow gets onto the leaves maybe?
J: What if it does snow? Can the leaves grow back?
S: I dont know.
J: Whats your best guess?
S: Wait, after fall, the leaves fall off. So the snow cant get to the leaves. But if it snows
early, the leaves die off maybe?



Admittedly, this section is a little interviewer directed, but I wanted to
challenge his usage of the word die. It was a new word choice in the scope of our
conversation; I had only asked him what causes the leaves to change color and fall
off. I wanted to see what his definition of die meant, because I thought it was an
important part of the cycle he mentioned twice earlier. If the trees truly died in the
traditional sense, it would seemingly end any cycle talk. Sam didnt seem to know

either, as he guessed it cant grow leaves anymore because the water from the
snow would affect the growth of the leaves.

However, after I ask about the status of the leaves in the spring, Sam

probably realizes that leaves eventually grow after the winter is over. This idea
would counter his snow water theory. Almost immediately after stating that leaves
grow back in the spring, he also acknowledges that trees could probably never
grow stuff again because of the snow water. There seemed to be some gap there:
both statements cant be true.

I was definitely a little aggressive in the interviewing process a little here, not

really with the intention of poking holes at his explanation, but rather wanted him
to consider what happens to trees in the seasons after winter. Ultimately, Sam
comes up with a rather brilliant hypothesis: if the leaves pre-emptively fall off, the
deadly snow water is unable to affect the tree; if there are no leaves for the snow to
get onto, then the snow water cant affect the trees. Because of this, if it does snow
earlier than expected, trees will die because they arent prepared for the early
snowfall. Sam abandons his earlier idea that it was primarily the roots that absorbs
the water and now seems to shift that function onto the leaves. In this hypothesis,
trees are armed with a natural defense mechanism that prevents its leaves from
absorbing any of the snow water.

IV.

J: So right now these leaves are perfectly fine. But once it snows, these leaves are going
to fall off? What happens when it stops snowing and it just rains normally again?
S: Ummm
J: Like during the spring, it rains a lot, right?
S: Yeah

J: So what happens to these trees during the spring?

S: Hmm
J: Do the leaves grow back?
S: Maybe.
J: So why do you say maybe?
S: Cuz like maybe the water could maybe drip into the tree and the tree could absorb
the good water maybe?
J: And what happens when the tree absorbs the good water?
S: The leaves grow back.
J: So whats in the water from the snow that you think makes the trees---
S: Salt water.
J: And what kind of water is it when it rains normally?
S: Regular water.



I probably should have asked what was in the snow that made the trees die a
little earlier, but I never found I had the time to insert that question until this
segment. However, at the start of this segment (which almost immediately follows
section III), I ask about the aftermath of winter. To return to the idea of the cycle
that Sam mentioned at the beginning, I ask him about the weather in the spring. I
was curious as to what happens when the snow water disappears and the spring
showers takes over. Sam concludes that rain water (which he thinks of as just
regular water) is the reason that leaves are able to grow back. He also states that
snow water contains salt, which is the reason why the trees die. Its definitely a
legitimate theory, as he probably never has tasted snow (adults usually warn
students that snow is dirty) and hes probably been told at some point in his life that
salt water isnt good for you.

V.
S: first when it gets to yellow, that means its like a warning and its going to fall
maybe? And when its red, its about to fall maybe?
J: Has it snowed yet though?
S: No
J: So how does it know to turn to yellow?

S: Maybe it has to do with the weather.

J: Could you talk about that a little more?
S: Because when its cold, some leaves turn different colors maybe?


This was towards the end of the conversation. While Sam talked about rain,
snow, seasons, and water, he never mentioned the words weather or cold until
now. It was implied through many of his explanations that the cold weather was a
factor, but nonetheless interesting that it took until the very end for it to be
explicitly mentioned. The obvious answer only came out at the very end of the
interview, after long explanations of many complex theories.

Conclusion


This interview gave a glimpse into how one 4th grader came to formulate a
hypothesis regarding the color-changing phenomenon of leaves. Despite claiming to
not know how leaves changed colors, Sam gave some complex explanations that
exhibited his scientific reasoning skills. Sam built on the idea that water was a
crucial part of a trees growth. Without the water it needs during the winter, leaves
fall off the trees and are unable to grow back until it receives regular water from
rain. Regardless of his answer being scientifically correct or not, Sam was able to
formulate a legitimate response. While he may have had some misconceptions about
the whole process, his scientific thinking was something that was definitely not
lacking.

As a teacher, I found this interview to be a wonderful opportunity to explore

a childs thinking. Lecturing about the scientifically approved theory on leaves

changing color would almost be a disservice to Sam. By tackling this question, Sam
was able to think for himself. In any science curriculum in this or any topic, I would

want my students to be able to explore, to formulate a hypothesis and provide

examples or evidence for it, and be able to argue against counter viewpoints. In this
interview, Sam was able to do all that. When I challenged him regarding the
springtime and how trees seem to always grow back, he formulated a hypothesis
that explains how leaves might fall off pre-emptively, so they dont absorb any of the
salt water from the snow, which would kill the trees. By developing this theory for
himself, he was able to strengthen his hypothesis and counter my argument. These
are all critical skills that are vital in any academic setting. This experience certainly
reinforces the idea of discovery and exploration as a core means of learning.