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Matt
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 24, 2013 at 10:37 AM
We only freeze fresh cut material for BHOextraction, or dried material for
alcohol extractions.
Grinding increases packing uniformity and density, but lightly breaking up
by hand produces less green color,
Our groups training hails from Oklahoma State, Portland State, Oregon
Institute of Technology, and University of Washington, but most of the
information about cannabis was through physical and on line research. Not
much in the college text books about cannabis extraction or formulation.
Posted by scott zcollett on May 14, 2013 at 1:21 PM
I just had my bho product tested in a lab and it came back at 88 percent thc. Whst
is the average that you all normally see.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 14, 2013 at 1:50 PM
Still dialing our GC to other labs Scott, so Ill hold off sharing our numbers
until I am confident they are correct and defensible. It really depends on
the strain, as we also grow high CBDstrains, but high 80s, low 90s us
typically where most high THC Absolutes seem to fall.
Posted by scott zcollett on May 14, 2013 at 2:02 PM
How can i register for your next bho class on 7 -7 -13.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 15, 2013 at 6:08 AM
Fill out the application at the end of the page at
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/skunk-pharm-
research-classes/ and send them to
graywolf@skunkpharmresearch.com.
The 7 -7 class is already grossly overbooked, so you might
consider the 7 -27 class, which is only slightly overbooked.
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on May 9, 2013 at 11:56 AM
Thank you first of all, you have the most in depth site on extraction methods. I
have been studying and experimenting with making the safest BHOI can so
patients dont suffer. Where I live far too many people are cutting corners at the
cost of other peoples health. So my question to you is I have been using butane to
pour through a glass or stainless tube into pyrex just like most, and I want to make
something better than your average honey oil. Its been lab tested and it was one of
the labs only oil to pass their solvents test. I just dont have the access or the
finances to work with the equipment you are talking about. There is so much
information on here my head is spinning. Maybe you can tell me what your
opinion is on the different extraction methods for gaining the highest THC and CBD
potency, and also best way to reach absolute or an oil that will actually retain the
wonderful smells and attributes that led me to pour that strain in the first place.
Sadly, the highest grade alcohol I can find around is usually just 91%is what I was
taught with for helping with the purging process. Like I said Ive been reading your
site for days and my head is spinning so if you can make any sense of that I would
love to improve. Thank you and I hope to hear back. It is nice to see some people
taking this to a place where it can help people. BHOhas been so controversial that
I would love to be better. I would honestly love to come to one of your classes or
seminars I read about. I have chronic pain for life from a fractured calcaneus and a
shattered foot so everything I have read about opiate withdrawl and pain
management is amazing. Thanks again.
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Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 12, 2013 at 4:12 PM
We get the highest potency using a non polar solvent, like propane, butane,
pentane, or hexane, and winterizing it to remove the non active waxes using
a polar solvent like ethanol.
Have you tried ordering 190 proof from
http://www.winechateau.com/ ?
Love to see you in class. We currently have more out of state students
attending, than Oregon students.
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on May 12, 2013 at 5:20 PM
Thank you. I read much more of your site and did a lot more research
and decided that I like the fact that butane extracts the least water
soluble biproducts . I made some drastic changes to my process and
was left with the most pleased results i think ever. I used to pour over
a dish already on heat to speed up the purging process but i was
losing all of the terpene quality and decarbing way to fast, for one of
the first times even as it still had butane bubbles, it reeked of the
strain I used. Im looking forward to your suggestion because i think
the winterizing was the last step i was missing. Ill just have to be
patient and get the right grade alcohol or ethanol to do it right. Thank
you again. I really appreciate the info and Im serious about signing
up for your classes so hopefully i will get up to Oregon. Like I said this
is something that I plan on using to change my life. Thank you.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 13, 2013 at 4:35 AM
Thanks for the good thoughts bro! Look forward to seeing you
in class!
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on May 27, 2013 at 5:28 PM
Hello GW,
I just wanted to thank you for all of your help. I sadly
after reading more in depth about the LLC as a whole and
the classes and their specifics, I can not attend. I am not
a medical student, I would love to be but I dont think it
is in the cards. I can not express how much I appreciate
the help as I said before I want to make something as
high/medical grade as you describe but I dont have the
access to some of the items you use. But, I am pretty
clever on my own and with a little guidance from you, I
have been making shatter with the goal of getting it as
close to absolute as possible with the equipment I have
for a while now. I have just done loads and loads of
research, and then seperated out all the people that
really dont have a clue and finally found your website,
and havent closed it for like a month. I wanted to come
up there for a very similar reason as to why you seem to
be doing what you are, so the patients in the area where
I live and are a part of the community, arent going to
their local Dispensary or wherever and buying products
riddled with cancinogens. They have safe access to safe
MEDICINE! I love that your meds are free to the patients
and that you can use this as a catalyst to do amazing
experiments with extraction and be able to have the
access to have patients to give you direct results, not to
mention all the people you are able to help. So it really
took the wind out of my sails to find out I am not eligible,
but I feel after reading your entire site a few times and
getting to correspond with you I have a pretty good
feeling. Sorry for the long post, I just knew I wouldnt get
a chance to thank you in person now. So I think I really
just have one or two simple questions for you. In my
original post, I asked you what your opinion on the
different methods were and that was far too vague. I
really wanted to know of all the non-polar solvents you
listed; hexane, pentane, propane, butane, etc.
1) Is there one that you prefer for highest yield in weight
and potency, for either THC or CBDs and CBNs using
almost always cured materials?? And I understand you
can achieve different levels of different chemicals by
decarbing at different temperatures, because I
understand they all have different applications. I have
always prefered butane extraction and used 91%to
wash, I am finally getting the right stuff to winterize, but
anyways using low heat I always simply purged the resin
of contaminants and also dehydrated it to the point of
shatter.
2)Keeping in mind Im planning to winterize when the
materials arrive, is there a better way?
3)Lastly, I just was wondering when to introduce the
ethanol. So it sounds like I dissolve the oil into the
ethanol after it has finished cleaning with I believe it was
like a 10:1 ratio and then freeze for 48 hours and strain
through coffee filter, correct?
Again, thank for your time, it is a privilege to get to
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interact with other people with such a passion for
helping people. Peace, Joseph.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 29, 2013 at 9:02 AM
Thanks for the good thoughts and sorry we wont be
meeting your smiling face!
We mostly use butane, because it does a good job and
with recycle, it is the cheapest method that weve found.
Hexane also does a nice job, but is more expensive and
more work to purge.
We winterize with 190 proof ethanol, which works better
than Iso for that purpose.
We pour in the heated ethanol as soon as the bubbles
stop, with the BHOextraction sitting in a hot tap water
double boiler bath.
Mixing the BHOextract at about 10:1 with alcohol and
freezing for 48 hours before filtering out the waxes,
using a coffee filter, is correct.
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on May 27, 2013 at 5:37 PM
Also PLEASEpost any updates you have with pain
management and opiate withdrawl, as I thought that was
extremely useful and I would love to pinpoint an oil to
help me. Thanks Again.
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on May 31, 2013 at 9:12 PM
Thank you, I know everyone says that, but I truly
appreciate the sound reliable advice and respect the
words and work you are doing. It sounds like I should
have a pretty pristine extract with the ethanol. I had one
idea to run past you, I was pouring and Im sure you
know that whatever collection dish you are using it is
going to be extremely cold from the negative
temperatures being poured out. I was just trying to be
creative while I wait for my winterization materials, and
thought as I introduced the alcohol almost immediately
after finishing pouring the bho and mixing quickly and
thoroughly I saw tons of clumps form under the cold
temperatures and the reaction. Could I strain that
immediately after to extract a portion of the fats and
waxes caught in the winterization process? Or is this
something else entirely? They were evenly distributed
white clumps which I know I have read about in
someone elses post but I was just wondering if I was
quick about it, could achieve a better extract? Thank
you, Sincerely, Joseph
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 2, 2013 at 6:20 PM
We always filter both before and after freezing when
winterizing. We are able to strain out some of the waxes
immediately after re-dissolving in alcohol, but it takes
colder temperatures and time to fully winterize the
material.
We have the most success after about 48 hours at
around 0F.
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on June 3, 2013 at 8:09 AM
Thank You once again. Of course I only meant this for
the meantime while shipping feels like an eternity.
Because of my recent surgery, Im just relearning to walk
this week so Im sure Im just being impatient. This, I can
do anytime. So I saw that you said that you heat your
ethanol before introducing it into the oil: 1) what
temperature do I heat to? 2) I will look up the
evaporation heat and rate for ethanol but I imagine you
would heat it right before introducing it so as to not
evaporate the alcohol too fast or too early, is this
correct?? I would think with a 10:1 ratio you would be
fine. I just havent done it yet so I wanna make sure I get
it right and its strange to strain an oil. Im very excited.
Best wishes to what seems like a great group of people!!
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Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 6, 2013 at 4:21 PM
I just heat it somewhere between about 140F to boiling,
as it will cool down rapidly when it contacts the oil and
the container. You can dissolve the oil in cold alcohol, it
just takes a long time.
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on June 10, 2013 at 10:41 AM
Hello GreyWolf,
A few last details. I feel like planning is your best friend
in this case. 1) Is a flat electric pancake skillet with a
buffer in between the skillet and pan the best way to boil
off the everclear after straining and reintroducing all the
oil/alcohol mixture. I feel like thats how I have the most
control over temperature and the ability to get to a
specific temperature. Ive seen people do some scary
looking setups to heat their mixture. 2) With raising
temperatures up to 17 5 degrees F or above to start the
evap. process, will most of my terpene quality be
destroyed because Im breaking my usual temp.
threshold of about 80degrees?? Lately more like
90/95degrees or so and I honestly only go that hot
because the summer is upon us and its simply that hot or
hotter. 3) At whatever stage you introduce the
everclear, isnt that going to bring your butane purging
to a halt because of the low low temperatures you put
the oil/alcohol mixture in? I was just thinking, should I
let the oil go for a few days on low heat before
introducing the alcohol to get the cleanest shatter, or
does any residual butane get released when you boil the
alcohol off?
Sorry for the long posts I just always think of the little
details and I want to make sure I have them covered. 4)
Have you had these essential oils you make tested to see
what percentage of solvents IF ANY are still left. I just
simply find everyone calling there stuff ABSOLUTE
Shatter. But what I truly want is CLEAN CLEAn
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 11, 2013 at 7:24 AM
I like a hot Canola oil bath for the best temperature
control without local hot spots. I use an electric fondue
pot to control the temperature of the oil and a laser
thermometer to keep track of the temperatures.
Yes, you are boiling off the monoterpenes at 17 3F, along
with the alcohol.
I pour in the Everclear as soon as the butane appears to
be gone. The rest of the butane will leave with the
alcohol.
We have a GC and test our own oil for content. There is
no issue with purging residual solvents below levels of
concern using just heat, or heat and vacuum.
There is also no problem telling with just taste and smell
whether you have residual solvent present at any levels
of concern. We can taste and smell the alkanes and
alcohols an order of magnitude lower than the levels
NIOSHfound them to be insalubrious.
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on June 11, 2013 at 12:00 PM
Ok, Thank you again. That is beautiful that you can test
your oils on the spot for contaminants. Anyways, I guess
I thought skillet because I was thinking of putting it back
into the 139 trays and using a skillet simply because of
the surface area, but if I am going to lose those terpenes
anyways I can use a setup more like what you are talking
about. I remember it from the website. 1) So using pretty
fresh material, like a month old, is it possible to
winterize and boil off the alcohol and still be able to
control whether you have the taste, smells and effects
that you want? I just dont typically purge at that temp
unless Im trying to achieve a certain affect? Peace and
Have a wonderful day!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 14, 2013 at 5:02 PM
You lose some of the monoterpenes when you boil off
the alcohol, because they are alcohols, ketones,
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aldahydes, ethers, esters, etc, with a high vapor pressure
to start with.
If you vacuum purge at a low temperature, you can
preserve more of them than if you purge the alcohol
with heat. You can make an oil that smells and tastes like
the original material that it was extracted from.
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on June 14, 2013 at 11:26 AM
Greetings!
I was wondering if you had a recommendation on a
vacuum purging system and the right specs I want to
look for as far as CFMs and all that? I have never vacuum
purged simply because I got busy but with my new
found time with my injury and my passion to learn more
about this I figured I would get one. It seems like that is
another way people are achieving very good results in
making shatter or taffy as well. If you have any ideas on
a good setup please let me know. Thank you.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 14, 2013 at 4:16 PM
Weve had good luck with all of our vacuum chambers so
far, but if you have the funds, I would go with a vacuum
oven big enough to hold a dish the size you will be
working with. Not sure who has the best deal, as we
bought a used Napco and completely rebuilt it, including
new digital controls.
I can tell from the design, that the Napco wouldnt hold
the required narrow dead band, with the existing heat
strip arrangement and mechanical capillary tube
control.
From a controls standpoint, it needs a narrow dead band
and needs to be controllable from ambient to 300F. Plus
or minus one degree F is reasonable. After rebuilding
and upgrading the controls, ours now holds dead on at
plus nothing, minus nothing.
The other end of the spectrum is a DIY, like the one we
built at http://skunkpharmresearch.com/diy-
vacuum-purging-chamber/
I would pick up a single stage vacuum pump in the 6 or 7
cfm range. A smaller one will work, but the speed of the
larger ones is handy. Weve used our CPS VP6S pump
reliably for about five years, so you might take a look at
them.
You dont need a two stage pump, as you dont want to
vacuum below about -29.5 Hg, because it boils away
the cannabinoids.
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on June 15, 2013 at 8:51 AM
See, I knew I asked the right man! Many thanks! You
always seem to steer me in the right direction. And now
I can use those specs to get exactly what I need. So the
CPS VP6S pump, 1) would I simply create my own
chamber and use parchment or some type of wax paper
to put the concentrate on while it purges? I can see why
the bigger chamber is so nice. User friendly it sounds
like. Again Have a Wonderful Day and Thank you!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 17, 2013 at 7:32 AM
Yes, you can use parchment paper or a silicone rubber
pad, as well as a shallow dish to cold boil.
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on June 23, 2013 at 10:11 PM
I just wanted to let you know what a profound effect
your website and its information has had on the
Northern California Region. I cant speak for everyone,
but the people I talk to have heard of this site and you
seem to be some what of the authority on how to
correctly make concentrates. And in turn I have been
able to change some peoples minds about essential oils
and I am able to present them in a safer, more medicinal,
more user friendly, more aromatic, more scientific light.
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Breaking down the science for people is sometimes the
only way to break down their closed minds. They need
facts I guess. So again, Thank you from the bottom of my
heart to all of you there that sit and read my long rants
and still take the time to reply. I hope you know you
change peoples lives. Peace, Oh and thank you for the
vacuum recommendation, My New Project!!!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 24, 2013 at 7:20 AM
Thanks for the good thoughts Joseph and youre
welcome! You can repay the favor by passing on any
portion of it that works for you on.
Good luck with your new project!
Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Drake Snow on June 5, 2013 at 11:10 AM
Dear Mr. GF,
Recently, I stumbled upon the most interesting of sorts with what I
am about to ask if I can redeem this or not? My material so happened
to fall in bag mind you, near a dryer sheet. The material was near this
dryer sheet for about 2 weeks. I did not think much about it, because
I had mixed that specific material with other of the same material that
was stashed elsewhere for blasting. I have used your thin film vacuum
purging technique since February of this year. I usually place a little
heat underneath for speeding of purge. Thus, I did so with the
material I had mentioned before. However, after 30 minutes of
vacuum purge at 90F and then a little more with an additional 15
minutes, plus trying to place in freezer over night inside petrie dish
for speedy drying.
I still taste the damn dryer sheet in my oil!!! What am I to do? Is this
something that you have ever heard off? I want to purge it out
without killing the floral notes or the oleoresins/terpenes. I can taste
the delicious taste in the back of my palate, but it is on the exhalation
that I sense the dryer sheet taste and this is even filtering through
water, mind you.
I do not know what to do? Should I purge it some more? What can I
do to get that dyer sheet fragrance taste out of my oil? I feel awful
about it. It would have been delicious if it had not been for that 10gs
of material that was left inside a bag which was inside a vacuum sealed
bag near the dryer sheet, this oil would have been outstanding like
the last few oils have been due to your amazing simple process
Please GF. If you think I can salvage this by any means? I am here to
learn! Please shed light on what I can do, if I can do anything at all?
Thank you in advance.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 6, 2013 at 4:17 PM
Wow, dryer sheets are potent! Using dryer sheets is actually
how women tell other women that a man is taken. What
bachelor ever uses fabric softeners?
Sorry I dont and Joe doesnt either. Any process known to us,
would also remove the lighter terpenes.
Posted by Joseph Okoneski on June 30, 2013 at 4:34 PM
Hello Again,
I hope all is well! I have a quick winterization question. I started to pour the
190 everclear in the somewhat purged but still liquid stage. I had seen
someone do this and get a wild reaction. And being my first attempt I
figured I might make a mistake or two. But I had quite of bit of research and
it often conflicts itself. My question is 1) when I poured the alcohol in it
seemed to be evaporating faster than I could pour. or is that simply the
butane evaporating and the alcohol taking its place. I Put the whole thing in
the freezer then was able to add it much more freely. Now After over 48
hours at 0degrees or below i just have alot of little white things floating. I
understand Im trying to strain out the fats waxes lipids etc. but I just
wanted to see if this was right before I take it out of the freezer. 2) Should I
have waited longed, closer to the oil state before adding the alcohol. 3) Also
if so, could i take it out and let the butane evaporate further and then redo
the process if necessary. Thank YOu so Much! Peace
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Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 30, 2013 at 6:12 PM
After 48 hours, you should be able to filter out the wax and lipids.
Adding the butane early is no problem, as it will leave with the
alcohol.
I would just filter it and vacuum or evaporate away the ethanol.
Posted by jozikins on May 9, 2013 at 11:23 AM
Hey guys, this is a great read, great attitude!
Question: I was looking into Hexane extraction, but because of the price of Hexane
I was looking into alternatives. Calibration Gas is 40%N-Hexane Gas, and
background gasses are N-Pentane, Oxygen, and Nitrogen. I know that Hexane and
Nitrogen are excellent for extracts, Oxygen Im not worried about, but what about
Pentane? You egg heads have any insight?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 10, 2013 at 6:02 AM
Pentane makes an excellent non polar solvent for extraction.
Posted by jozikins on May 16, 2013 at 10:51 PM
Thanks guys! This bit of literature has saved me loads of time and
expenses!
Posted by jozikins on May 16, 2013 at 10:53 PM
Awesome, thanks a lot guys! This bit of literature has saved me loads
of time and expenses. Good job everyone.
Posted by JackFlash on April 29, 2013 at 12:54 PM
Hi Greyfox. 1st Id like to express my gratitude for your openness &willingness to
share reliable info. You are obviously highly competent &I love the creativeness
of all your projects. I have 2 questions &I value your opinion. Hope you can help.
1. I plan to set up 3 36 SS columns &use your BHOextraction method. Freezers
capable of -32C/0F &large enough to contain a 36 column are financially
impractical for me. What do you think of using a 4 ft long x 8 dia sched 40 PVC
pipe with push-on caps filled with dry ice to freeze the columns? Id drill a pressure
relief hole in one cap. Will I damage the product with the extremely cold (-
7 8.5C/-109.3F) temps? If this is a problem perhaps I could put a scrap piece of
SS pipe filled with old material with a lab thermometer inserted in the middle into
the dry ice &remove extraction columns when they reach ~ -10F. What do you
think?
2. In the interest of saving time &perhaps a little butane, Ive had both ends of my
SS columns threaded. After the 1st run of each column, I plan to reverse
input/output ends, put columns back in dry ice to chill &do 2nd run with reverse
flow. Do you think this would be an effective approach instead of repacking?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 1, 2013 at 8:10 AM
My wife mate Grayfox thanks you for the good thoughts bro!
Dry ice temperatures wont damage the cannabinoids, but it will
dramatically slow down the process.
Are you freezing the columns to run fresh frozen green material or using it
on dry material?
Reverse flow is a good compromise, but wont usually give the same return
as a complete repack.
Posted by JackFlash on May 1, 2013 at 9:14 AM
Thanks for the feedback GreyWOLF. Sorry bout that!
Im running fresh dry material but plan on trying the green next time
around. I will use a lab thermometer as I described in the 1st post to
keep the temperature between 0 &-10F. Ill try both reverse flow &
repack &post the difference in results if thats helpful.
I also found an old SS 2 qt thermos. I put a handful of flint chips in it &
put it in a tumbler to clean which worked well. Im going to try the
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thermos method as well using dry ice &an infrared pyrometer to
control temperature. Ill post the results &anything else that might
prove useful.
Again, thanks for your help &for being an invaluable source of info.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 2, 2013 at 5:48 AM
Thanks for the good thoughts and good luck with your
experiments! I look forward to seeing the results!
Posted by adamon April 27, 2013 at 1:37 PM
hey got a question greywolf so i come across material that blows gold but once in
vac oven goes darker after a few min of purging to honeycomb. I like you host
medical patients, i run uhp u butane so on. I am no first timer just bouncing ideas
from one co op owner to the next. thanks brother
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 29, 2013 at 9:44 AM
What temperature are you purging at?
Posted by Josh B on April 26, 2013 at 12:14 PM
I need help , I have spoke with Graywolf on another site in the past(which I no
longer have access to) , but my father inlaw was getting his cannabis oil from
someone other then me at the time .. he has cancer , already went thru chemo
once and now the tumor is back and bigger then ever , the Doctors gave him
6months to live , but want to double his amount of chemo in hopes it may help ..
For aggressive cancer treatment how do I convert the BHOinto something I can
put into a capsule ? Just decarb it ?
What temp and how long should I heat the BHOto properly decarb it so it can be
taken orally ?
Where in the PDXarea can I buy empty capsules to load ?
What dosage of BHO(far as weight per day) should he be taking ? (Ive read starting
with a size of a grain of rice ramping up to one gram per day)
Or is BHOthe wrong method here ? Maybe I should be extracting with a different
solvent ?
I really love the idea of the HAO, but during the chemo his taste buds freak out to
the point he cant stand the taste of anything , so thats why I feel an oral capsule is
going to be the best bet
Thank you , Josh
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 29, 2013 at 9:42 AM
We decarb oil at 250F until we reach the stage of decarboxylation we are
seeking. See http://skunkpharmresearch.com/decarboxylation/
You can put decarboxylated oil in a capsule, or better yet mix it with about
30%coconut oil to help uptake and tie up the liver. We then mix that with
cornstarch to stabilize it into something like silly putty and then stuff that in
caps.
Most health food stores have Oand OOgel caps. I got my last bag at Natures.
The standard Rick Simpson cancer dose is 1 gram a day, broken up into
three or four doses. We start patients with unknown tolerance at 50 mg, to
see what happens and then titrate upward to reach the desired dose.
That is half the 100 mg dose weve found to be about an average low
tolerance dose for pain, with 200 mg about average, and 300 mg a high
tolerance dose.
Posted by c on April 29, 2013 at 10:27 PM
If a person didnt want to get the high ,etc effects but just needed the
THC for cancer wouldnt shatter or preshatter taffy be a good addition
to the full plant extract rso style? I am curious because it is hard to
get enough rso into people without them getting too high. Although
in my experience they all claim that after a while it doesnt effect em
that much but,,,,,,,,,, Just wondering if you have any experience
blending it together. Would the undecarboxilated THC still be usable
by the body for the cancer or would it need to be heated before it
would become active against the cancer?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 1, 2013 at 8:21 AM
I dont know the answer to that question, but there are folks
juicing raw carboxylic acid cannabinoids and reporting good
results, so my best guess is that it would do something positive,
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even if it werent the panacea that you are looking for.
One thing that THCA cant do readily, is pass the blood brain
barrier, but that only prevents it from reaching the CB-1
receptors, because our immune systems CB-2 receptors are
scattered throughout the body, and so the CBDA present has
full access. They are also finding more new cannabinoid
receptor types scattered throughout our bodies, and they may
also be involved.
Posted by c on May 9, 2013 at 3:50 PM
amazing times. I know of many people doing the raw
plant juice and they all have had great results . The
shatter is just more of that kind of THC accesibility to
the body. Course the shatter doesnt have the fresh other
stuff that comes right out of the plant but that would be
in the rso already to some extent. Interesting stuff for
certain!
Posted by Josh B on April 30, 2013 at 1:32 PM
Thank you very much for you reply , I will follow as you suggested
with coconut oil and cornstarch ..
Would you suggest using butane or 99%iso for the extraction ?
I dont know if its true or not , but I read that iso will extract cbds
where as butane will not ,or not as well is maybe what I read ..
If I am leaving my questions in the incorrect area of the site please let
me know
Thanks , Josh
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 1, 2013 at 7:27 AM
Both butane and Iso will extract the CBD, but we use butane
and ethanol for our oral meds.
Posted by Josh B on May 6, 2013 at 3:07 PM
What percentage of corn starch is normally used to
achieve a thicker state ? something like silly putty as you
refereed to ?
Using a stainless steel cup I submerged 42 grams of vac
purged bho into 250deg canola oil , took 10-15 minutes
for it to stop bubbling after it was heated.. I let it cool
down to about 100-110degs and added 12grams (30%)
coconut oil ,after that I began to add corn starch , got up
to 12grams of corn starch and it still wasnt changing the
viscosity any thicker ,I tried adding heat to see if the
corn starch would react/thicken the mix and it did not
(200-210degs for a couple minutes).. I just grabbed a
syringe and filled the capsules
Im thinking Ill just skip the corn starch in the future
batchs, or try it on a smaller batch next time . is there
any advantages or disadvantages besides changing the
consistency in adding or not adding corn starch ?
Thank you so much for helping us out with this , putting
the info out here for us all to use is a true blessing !
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 9, 2013 at 5:38 AM
35 grams of our silly putty consistency, contains 10
grams oil, 3 grams coconut oil, and 22 grams of
cornstarch.
That makes the cornstarch 62.8%of the mixture.
42 grams of BHOwould use (4.2 X3 grams) of coconut
oil, or 12.6 grams, and (4.2 X22 grams) of cornstarch, or
92.4 grams.
Adding the cornstarch just keeps everything more stable
for travel, so that the caps are much less likely to leak.
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Posted by MCon April 19, 2013 at 2:32 PM
What about freeze dried material?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 19, 2013 at 3:33 PM
Never tried it, but ostensibly it would work. The quality of the extraction
would be influenced by how frangible the material becomes when that dry.
Posted by matthew on April 15, 2013 at 11:42 AM
Your article and the others on your site have been very informative. i just have a
question about a current batch I made. I used dried plant material and ran it
through a glass extractor with power 5x butane and two coffee filters at the end. i
have been having success with this and have been using heat purging in hot water
on an electric range and have been getting nice, rock hard concentrate that can be
easily handled. however this time did a bigger run than normal but cant seem to
get the oil to the hard stage this time. we have tried vac purging as well as heat and
somehow cant seem to get it to what we have done all the other times. what do you
think could be the cause of this and how can it be corrected?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 15, 2013 at 1:06 PM
Retained solvent or partial decarboxylation.
It takes more heat and time to purge in deeper pools, so more may remain.
The added heat decarboxylates the oil and makes it more runny.
You might consider purging in smaller quantities or in a larger container,
with more surface area.
Posted by MCon April 16, 2013 at 12:20 PM
Ding ding ding! I had the same kind of thing going, great bho, then bad
bho, much hair pulling, thinking, asking, etc and a month of bad
batches I came up with three things that are pretty key
-the depth of the pool.
I was killing myself trying to crank through 4-6 columns then purge
all at once. I noticed a batch could be under vacuum for 6 hours, be
flat w/ no bubbles, but tip the container so the batch runs, and
whammy, bubbles. Too thick
-Dry source material. No, really dry. A friend related that he packs his
material away with large bags of dessicant he makes from bulk for a
week or more before running it. So now after the screen, right before I
run my material, I toss it in the oven for a little while (like toss as it
warms, not throw in and leave) then pack in a tube.
-Quality of vacuum. I was pulling down to -29 hg but I was also
loosing pressure very rapidly if I flip the valve to isolate the tank.
What that means to me is that the pump is pulling outside air and
whatever through the tank. Not going to be thorough. When I worked
out my lid gasket deal better, I noticed the pump quieted down a lot,
no rattle, and could run all night without getting really hot.
And do yourself a favor and put a vapor trap between the pump and
your pile of profit. Things go wrong, pumps (cheaper ones) will leak
oil back to the vac chamber while you wait for depressurization. Make
Hulk Angry.
Posted by MCon April 16, 2013 at 1:23 PM
And I still want to come visit, take a class, rub brains and see
what happens, but I still have a wildfire for a life, cant really
make it happen yet.
Side note..
Making a new vac tank, I had on hand a 2021 stainless bowl 22
in dia around 12 g, and recalled squirreling away a round plate
of glass 1/2 thick, with holes predrilled for hanging the thing.
As the plate is larger than the bowl, I could hang 2 holes off the
edge and only have one exposed to vacuum, so I set the
valve/vac line to that. 3/8 neoprene gasket contact cemented
to lip of bowl, put them together and see how it
works.rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
hmm, looks like it is pulling vac pretty fast, looks goo
BOOOM
which is not what the plate glass imploding into the bowl,
upwards since it was on bottom, then all crashing to the floor
while I stood next to it in shorts.
I like Implosion better than explosion. I can still walk.
Why for it go boom?
the holes in the glass were left rough, not polished out. any
roughness to glass is a micro fracture, weakening the entire
matrix. And the vacuum says, Grrrr.
Sometimes you just want things to work so you ignore what
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you already know, I guess?
Posted by MCon April 16, 2013 at 1:25 PM
which is not what it sounds like, the boom I mean..
tangential brain!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 17, 2013 at 7:40 AM
Yeah, I decided to put a bulkhead fitting into the side
wrapper, rather than weaken the already marginal
acrylic lid.
Makes a mess, doesnt it?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 17, 2013 at 7:38 AM
Thanks for sharing bro!
Really dry material sidesteps water soluble issues, but makes
the materia brittle and frangible. We prefer to run at about 10%
water content minimum for oil to be decarboxylated.
For more floral vaporizing flavors, we extract closer to 25%
water content, because the lighter terpenes evaporate away
with it.
For the most floral flavor, we freeze fresh cut material and
extract it frozen.
Posted by f rank jones on May 6, 2013 at 7:32 PM
so could you recommend a vapor trap? size and where to make
purchase
seems im putting together my own lab(smile)
thank you
frank
Posted by f rank jones on May 6, 2013 at 8:10 PM
While we use 180F to vacuum purge a raw oleoresin,
adding heat isnt necessary when thin film vacuum
purging raw oleoresins redissolved in ethanol. The
alcohol will boil away under 28.5Hg at ambient
temperatures, as will the water that is left behind, even
without adding any heat.
hello Greywolf
1st I wanna thank you for sharing such as craft,i live in
Colorado and
Im seeing prices soar 2 years ago we were paying 25
bucks a gm for co2
honey oil 15 bucks for full bubble melt,now everything is
twice that price
Im not sniveling just trying to convey my thankfull ness
so im a newbie at extraction s I do have a medical
garden ,thanks to you folks im now gonna be able to
make my own,
if ya dont mind id like to hear you elaborate on how to
operate a dessicator and pump you mentioned that you
control the vac for a half hour or so then lock it down
and continue under heat
does this mean pump is running during the controlled
period to observe
the bigger bubbles then you shut off pump and keep it
under vac?
there are so many utube videos but no one seems to
include details
also im wanting to try out vaccuming ethanol with out
heat
hope this isnt a pain to ask of ya,it seems im
understanding most of
your info . Im also building the diy stainless dessicator
and about to order
the filter gear and should be on the road soon
thank you
frank
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 7, 2013 at 10:59 AM
Once you have pumped the system down and it is stable,
you can close the valve between the pump and the
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desiccator and the pressure inside the chamber will stay
relatively stable, rising only in response to the boiling
going on inside.
During the periods of slow pressure rise, the pump is
over kill, so as soon as you close the valve, you can turn
off the pump. Periodically turn on the pump and open
the valve to vacuum off any accumulated purged gases,
before repeating the isolation and shutdown procedure.
Do remember to turn it on before opening the valve
again though, as it can spray oil from the pump into your
chamber and product, if you suck air backwards through
the pump.
Yes, I just watch the bubbles to tell the difference
between solvent and fizzy C02 bubbles. The solvent
bubbles are random sized, with some quite large, and the
CO2/Terpene fizzy bubbles, are relatively uniform and
smaller.
If you cold boil alcohol, you will need a cold trap
between the chamber and pump and/or watch your
pumps crankcase level like a hawk, and change it every
time it reaches max level.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 7, 2013 at 10:21 AM
Im still working on our cold trap bro, but should have
the final part this week.
Ive had only limited success in the lab using dual cold
traps and dual condensers running ice water, so how
well this works remains to be seen.
What I did, was order a refrigerant recovery pump after
cooler to go in front of the vacuum pump, to cool down
the alcohol vapors enough to be captured by the cold
trap Ive made out of a sanitary spool and a lid with one
vacuum port and one dip tube port.
The incoming stream will be pulled through the after
cooler, then the dip tube side of the cold trap, and then
out the vapor port, to pass through the pump. I can
determine what vacuum pressure it will support, after I
see how low it gets the temperature of the stream at
current flows.
Obviously the after coolers could be cascaded, and there
can be multiple cold traps, or the bath temperature
could be lowered by using antifreeze.
More on the assembly, after I try it out.
Posted by Kerr on April 30, 2013 at 6:56 AM
This could also be the product of excessively dried material. The
cannabinoids partially break down from theircarboxylic acid state,
leaving you with somewhat decarboxylated material to begin with.
This will result in gooey bho.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 1, 2013 at 8:39 AM
True story.
Posted by f rank jones on May 16, 2013 at 10:40 AM
thanks Bro
so as I was a sayin(smile) back to the thin film purge of
butane extract
redissolved in eth that it needs no heat,Im stuck on cold
trap,so my question is (in photo of diy cold/vapor) what
size are the flask being used?
and I do notice a filter there as well so,if ya get a moment
sure would
like more info(smile),and thank yas for such kind
offerings
frank
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 18, 2013 at 6:18 AM
I am in the process of building my latest cold trap
version, after having experimented with using the
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original 6 X6 Mk III butane storage tank for a trap,
with a refrigerant after cooler in front of it, and both
submerged in an ice bath. It works OK, but still doesnt
catch but about 90%, and slows down the process from
the added resistance, so larger diameter tubing in the
chilling coils are required to reduce resistance, as well as
colder water or more chilling surface to capture more
solvent.
My newest version is based on a 6 X12 sanitary spool,
and instead of having an after cooler in front of as a pre
chiller, the cooling coils are inside the cold trap and I am
going to circulate ice water or antifreeze through them. I
expect it to collect a higher percentage of the alcohol,
and be faster than the current test sled.
Posted by lvzy on April 7, 2013 at 10:33 AM
thanks for the great information.
I use a griddle to heat up the inside of my chamber to about 110F.
drop in my parchment paper with the concentrate, and purge till there is no
movement.
I was wondering why my concetrate seems to have lost all its taste and flavor.
I have had plenty of runs without vac purging and tasted and smelled great.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 8, 2013 at 9:58 AM
Possibly the no movement part. We vacuum purge at 115F in a thin film
until there are no solvent bubbles present, but remove it while there are still
CO2 bubbles coming off. If you cook it until it is bubble free, it will lose
many of its lighter terpenes.
Posted by Carson on March 30, 2013 at 11:00 PM
Where I live, there isnt any lab testing or high standards for concentrates. Most is
sent from out of state and not properly purged. I started making my own after
learning a lot off your site about BHOsafety and proper procedures. Just wanted to
make sure there isnt more I need to do in order to achieve a clean absolute.
Process: After spraying butane through an unbleached coffee filter into a pyrex
cup, I wait until most of the butane naturally evaporates away and then right
before I get magma sludge I pour in a 3:1 ratio of 190 proof alcohol to oil. I wait
until all the butane bubbles are gone, then freeze mix for at least 24 hours. Pour
through another unbleached coffee filter to trap solids then evaporate alcohol in
pyrex tray over steaming pot @17 5 F until sap becomes flat and hardens. Scrape n
enjoy?
Ive been diggin the process so far, but with everything you know about solvents
and extractions, I just thought id ask to make sure.
Thanks for your help!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 2, 2013 at 9:40 AM
The proof of the pudding is in its taste and effect. If it tastes good and works,
you have a winner!
A few differences in our processes:
I add the alcohol hot, after all the observable butane is gone.
I use closer to 10:1 alcohol to oil ratio, but dont measure it, just put in
enough so that it is still easily filterable once the temperature is lowered.
I filter before and after winterization, using a coffee filter or Wattman #1 lab
filter with vacuum assist.
17 5F works, but you can preserve more carboxylic acid closer to 140F
without vac and 115F with.
If you are using it for oral, I would use 250F, and decarboxylate at the same
time.
Posted by Arturo Gomez on April 3, 2013 at 11:14 AM
I need help! I am not decarbing my buds. I did not know about your
methods until I stumbled on your website one day and have tried to
learn as much as I can from you. Which so far I have been very
gracious for and I appreciate the time you took to make it happen. I
use Luciene butane. I use a glass extraction vessel. I wanted to know
once I blast into my dish, I add hot ethanol? What temperature? I
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have a glass vacuum desiccator with pump. But I have just been
breaking buds and packing them tight into glass vessel. I use a 200
micron mesh filter and use an unbleached coffee filter with clamp.
While I allow for the butane to evaporate as much I have in a pyrex
dish, I have not used hot water bath from the tap as you suggested,
the last time I did my blasting. Not thinking about condensation or
anything for that matterI have to say you have shed some light.
However, I am a little confused about the purge process. Why add
alcohol? As of now, I just wait till all noticeable bubbles evaporate
and then I scrape to place unto parchment paper where it fits into a
petri dish top. I place entire glass chamber on a flat skillet, due to its
best precision in heat. I purge until all bubbles are gone. But even at
low level temps and so forth, I still feel there is residual residue in my
oil and I am not content with it. So how does alcohol affect your
purging process? I understand that I would purge the oil and alcohol
together? I am trying to figure out how to make my oil proud. What
do I need to do to make my oil the best? Do I decarb before packing it
into my extraction vessel? Do I add hot alcohol to the extracted
material just enough to cover the surface area? Do allow for
evaporation to occur then or do I just go ahead and proceed as I
usually do by purging out the gases after extraction without adding
alcohol?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 4, 2013 at 7:05 AM
Adding alcohol is an option, but not necessary. We wash out
with alcohol, because we are going to winterize the oil to
remove the waxes.
We heat the alcohol to boiling before pouring it in, but it cools
down immediately. You can use cold alcohol, but it takes more
stirring and agitation to get the BHOto dissolve in it.
Purging the alcohol will remove the residual butane, by
forming an azeotrope with it, as well as stirring the puddle to
aid in the butane molecules escape.
It works best for us to decarb the oil after extraction, because
you can tell exactly what is happening, by watching the CO2
bubbles.
We are adding alcohol to the extracted oil at the ratio of about
10:1. It needs to be thin enough to filter, at around 0F.
Posted by f unkmecca on April 4, 2013 at 11:10 PM
Ok, so you decarb your oil before you add your hot
ethanol and then you winterize? I am trying to
understand your steps, are they in sequential order? The
3rd step. You say you decarb the oil. You mean you
reheat it after all visible bubbles disappear?
Do you vacuum purge or are you speaking about purging
the BHOwith ethanol by allowing the bubbles to escape,
in step 2? Or are you reheating your oil prior to vacuum
purging, then adding ethanol?
Is a thin film vacuum purge different than purging with a
chamber a hose a valve and a dual stage pump?
Thank you again for your time! You have shed much
light. I just want our oil to taste right.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 5, 2013 at 7:17 AM
No, we add the ethanol, winterize, remove the alcohol,
and then decarboxylate the oil.
We decarboxylate oil by placing a container of it in a
250F hot Canola oil bath, and watch the bubbles. See our
procedure at
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/decarboxylation/
We dont bother to vacuum purge oil that we are
decarboxylating for oral use. We use vacuum to keep the
heat low so as to preserve carboxylic acid for
vaporization.
A thin film purge is vacuum purging the material spread
out in a thin film, so that the solvent can more readily
escape.
Posted by f unkmecca on April 5, 2013 at 1:00 PM
Thank you again for clarification and link! I appreciate
your time and lend of knowledge. It is very generous and
well informed.
For the oral BHO, you do the steps regarding
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carboxylation and the hot alcohol.
For vaporization what you guys will do is just the
extraction onto surface area of choice and then use the
thin film technique to extract the leftover gases or
butane trapped inside the BHO? At low heat to preserve
the carboxylic acid at about 115 F, while vacuum
purging? Sorry, if this is mundane and obvious. Obvious
newbie here.
However, I am curious. Can you vaporize the oral BHO?
Also, would like to know if there is anything I should
know as far as steps and advice for making BHOfor
vaporization?
Thank you kind sir. I appreciate all your help in
advance.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 8, 2013 at 10:17 AM
Yes, we always decarboxylate our oral meds and
remove the inert waxes.
Yes you can vaporize oral decarboxylated BHO, but
usually dont with our oral formulas, because of the
other things that we add like cinnamon and myrrh.
The other difference between the decarboxylated AA
that we produce for oral and topical use, and the
Carboxylic acid AA that we produce strictly for
vaporization, is that one is in the decarboxylated
nonpolar form, while the latter is still in the original
polar carboxylic acid shatter form it was in on the plant.
Both work for vaporization, but the THC will typically be
slightly higher with the carboxylic acid shatter form,
because less of it will have been converted to CBN.
We get bragging rights vaporization shatter by putting
about 3/16 to 1/4 in a shallow dish and heating it to
115F in a -29.9 Hg vacuum. Control the pressure until
all violent boiling stops and then allow to cook under
vacuum until the random sized solvent bubbles are
gone, but remove as soon as only the fizzy equally sized
CO2 and terpene bubbles remain. Remove it from the
chamber at that point and let cool.
Posted by CALumi on April 8, 2013 at 5:01 PM
Well, the proof is in the pudding. I followed your steps.
Using the thin film technique. One question I have. The
initial purge was on extreme low heat. All major bubbles
dissipated during this time, like you said. It was 2 hours
of vac purging. Finally I took it out and let cool down. I
tasted a slight dab. The taste was 10x better than when I
did it the last time as a result, it gave me that resin taste
in the back of the mouth that I got from the very first
dab I ever had. I used an older batch of material, but all
flowers. I extracted onto a glass dish that sat in warm tap
water. The thin film technique was used and I got
shatter. The constancy was hard like candy. I thought it
needed more purging so I did an additional purge using
slightly higher temperature than the last time (never
above 101 F). I got more of a raw honey consistency and
the taste is a little modified. Now, it is easier to handle
with the glass dabber. It vaporizes rather quickly and
the taste seems to be more acidic? Not in a bad way at
all.. It seems to taste that initial taste and then it turns
into a bite at the end. Is this based on preference at this
point? I can do it how I did it the first time, by allowing it
to sit on a warm surface no higher than 90 F and I can
get shatter. The taste is amazing either way, but do you
think I lost something when I did it the second time
because the consistency changed and so did the taste. I
noticed it had less bubbles in between time and they
seemed to appear smaller and denser. I am just
wondering if there is one better for you than the other?
The raw honey one seems to have a sheen to it in some
parts, is this ok? Do I need to do an additional low heat
and purge? The parts that are like raw honey, change
color when I move it with the glass dabber. Is this a good
sign? Which is better? I probably did not need the
second purge, but it is much more easier to dab with.
However, I think the taste of the shatter seems cleaner
and crisper than that of the second purge. Your feedback
would be greatly received. Thank you GF for all your
help. I appreciate everything!
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Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 11, 2013 at 7:37 AM
Sounds like you are trying all the right things!
I get consistent shatter at 115F under -29.9 Hg vacuum.
I purge until the random sizes solvent bubbles cease,
and only the equally sized fizzy CO2 bubbles remain. I
then pull it and let it cool.
The honey consistency is because of decarboxylation
and will have a lower terpene content and be less floral,
as well as have slightly lower THC and higher CBN. It is
still good and we routinely vaporize both.
Posted by CALumi on April 9, 2013 at 3:05 PM
Dear GW, I attest that you have shed much light to my
myopic ways of thought and have helped me think
differently. Your forums helped to simplify how I was
making BHOby using your thin film technique ..I really
did not realize how much heat plays a role in making
your BHOtaste delicious. I was taught to let all bubbles
disappear. Now, I know from proof that this is NOT
TRUE. My last batch was amazing in taste, smell and
consistency. I messed around with temperatures and
found that less is better using the thin film technique. A
few questions that I have and I do not know if anyone
has ever asked? What should I do with all my BHO
reclaim that is not as good as what I am getting now? I
have some stuff that is reclaimed via ethanol and some
that I basically purged at too high-heat, resulting in the
taste to go away, but the potency is there. Should I
throw-out the old reclaimed wax? Or can it be recycled
maybe for an oral recipe? Green elixir? Something of the
sort? Also, what do I do with the left over extracted
material? Some of it smells really fresh still. Could I
make a QWET extraction from blasted material?
Thank you in advance.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 11, 2013 at 8:13 AM
We make an sedative oral or a topical with our reclaimed
oil.
I would repack the tube and run the material again if
microscopic examination showed that there were still
trichome heads left. You could also make a QWET.
Posted by Zephyr on May 14, 2013 at 4:36 PM
When you say Whattmann #1 are you referring to Grade 1: 11 m?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 15, 2013 at 6:10 AM
Yes #1 means grade #1.
Posted by f ullmeltmike on March 28, 2013 at 7:06 PM
Is there a method for using kief only with the column?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon March 29, 2013 at 9:41 AM
Yeah, weve used a 6 column on a Mk III for extracting kif with good
success. We havent tried longer columns, over concern for plugging.
Posted by Sppete13 on April 1, 2013 at 7:47 AM
I love Skunk pharms Butane Thermos QWmethod with kief. just make sure
you put your butane in the already cold thermos BEFOREputting in your
kief. or it can get messy
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Posted by Sppete13 on April 1, 2013 at 7:49 AM
(The best medicine I have made to date was pure kief doing a qw with
butane winterized absolute amber. )
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 2, 2013 at 9:47 AM
Could you explain?
We usually put the kif in the thermos before freezing it.
Posted by Mookie on March 26, 2013 at 2:05 AM
You guys are hella cool and about the mission. Many blessings.
Posted by MCon March 16, 2013 at 11:45 AM
Also, my resin puddle is maybe an 1/8 thick, will this still purge in vac tank?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon March 17, 2013 at 7:15 AM
Yes, if you heat it to about 115F.
Posted by Marc on March 25, 2013 at 9:15 PM
I have 2 questions. first one, if my oil comes out dark, like dark brown
or even black is there a way to remove that color and make it more
clear? yellow? Obviously the better looking product i use doesnt
come out that color but i was just wondering. and my second
question is how to get HARDSHATTER SNAP at room temp every
single time?? Sometimes it glasses up in like no time at all and when i
take it out its perfect. other times ive left it in the vac and literally
gone to bed, woken uop the next morning to take it out and it was
STILL sticky! WHY? help please.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon March 27, 2013 at 5:54 AM
The dark color is usually a function of heat and age of the
material. Young fresh material is lighter colored than older
dried material, because the carboxylic acid forms are lighter in
color than the decarboxylated forms. Consider the trichome
that matures from clear to dark amber.
Sativa oil is typically lighter than Indicas.
Removing it is not easy and the only reliable way that weve
found so far, is using ionic resin columns, which is slow and
expensive. In most cases, it is easier to not darken the material
in the first place.
Shatter is carboxylic acid. Any decarboxylation makes it softer
and more maleable. We get it most consistently by using young
material and using thin film purging at 115F and -29.9 Hg.
Posted by MCon March 16, 2013 at 11:32 AM
Hey, back again!
OK, tearing my hair out now. I had gotten a process down to deliver a very nice
extract in a flake form. Growers came out of the woodwork to dump trim on me,
now I cant get clean extract, everything tastes contaminated, never seems to stop
bubbling after 10 hours under vacuum. After finding another online info resource
on Utube, I tried a colder (120 deg f) longer purge. 20 hours at about 120, I have
burned oil with butane or something in it. I had been using power 5x, but given a
deal on Dodo 7 x I switched. I also went from an entire steel canister as vac
chamber, to a stainless lid clamped onto a pyrex bowl so I can see inside. I also
have a cheapo harbor freight vac pump.
I am out of money, barely keeping power on, sitting on loads of material that is
getting older, with folks calling me. And I cannot get my product made to save my
life. Which is what I need it to do before I lose my house. No more money to pour
into gear.. I am stumped. I am at 29 in merc vac according to guage. ?? help.
please.
MC
Seattle
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Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon March 17, 2013 at 4:34 PM
Were you flaking shatter, or were you making wax?
The oil will continue to bubble after the solvent is all gone, from
decarboxylation.
We use 115F and -29.9 to produce shatter in thin films in a couple of hours.
We watch it closely, and when the random sized bubbles stop and only the
small equally sized fizzy bubbles are left, we remove it from the chamber
and let it cool in the open air.
If you are making wax, some strains wax up easier than others. 125F at -
29.9 for as many hours as it takes, usually 10 to 20, should get you wax
with the strains that we typically work with.
Posted by chives greenthumb on March 26, 2013 at 10:58 PM
make sure the product is not stale or full of fan leaves. Both of these will
cause that taste you are mentioning and make set up much harder.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon March 27, 2013 at 6:34 AM
Good point! Fanleaves work well for pain, but they dont taste very
good and give you a charlie horse between the ears instead of
euphoric head effect. Ostensibly because of the older more mature
trichomes, which are sedative.
Posted by 3 kinds of BHOw/budder on March 9, 2013 at 7:09 AM
[...] Check out Jumps Absolute Amber thread for details or the last procedure
detailed on the page at http://skunkpharmresearch.com/bho-extraction/
Reply With [...]
Posted by Newbie BHOFeedback/Tips on March 7, 2013 at 12:44 PM
[...] by mokuro if possible, what is Double solvent method? can you link me some
tutorial about it? http://skunkpharmresearch.com/bho-extraction/ this
guys the shit! Check out YouTube as well. Type in winterizing BHO. Reply With [...]
Posted by aaron on February 23, 2013 at 10:08 PM
hey yall wondering if someone can answer something for me. i bought my bho
steamroller from a guy who said i could reclaim my bho resin using some process
of rubbing alcohol, then letting it vapor out over a weeks time, then you can
resmoke your lost dabs has anyone heard of this? and how exactly is it done?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 24, 2013 at 7:51 AM
We clean our oil rigs in ethanol, by emersing them in alcohol until the resin
is dissolved in it. You can speed it up by heating the alcohol.
We make a sedative evening med out of it, by cooking off most of the alcohol
in our still, and boiling the rest off to atmoshpere, with the oil container
sitting in a 250F hot Canola oil bath. When it stops bubbling, it is ready.
Posted by aaron on February 24, 2013 at 10:51 PM
Would I get the same results from using 91%isopropyl? Sorry Im sort
of new at this whole thing. Initially I was concerned about heating it
too, thought maybe it might kill the potency? Also, what kind of
container are we talking for the aforementioned oil container. Is this
beyond my ability to do at home on the stove? Thanks for the
information
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 27, 2013 at 8:45 AM
Not sure exactly which oil container of which you speak, but
we usually use stainless bain marie wear from the local
restaurant supply to hold the oil and set it in hot Canola oil in
an electric fondue pot.
Posted by john on February 27, 2013 at 1:15 AM
How much canola oil per / g of absolute ethanol ? You guys are the
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best
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 27, 2013 at 8:47 AM
Umm, could you elaborate on the question?
Posted by John on February 28, 2013 at 9:53 AM
Yes, I have about 2 grams of absolute extract that I got
from reclaiming my piece with everclear numerous
times before winterizing and pouring through a coffee
filter onto Pyrex on top of a pot of water on its lowest
setting, Let it sit for about 5 hours .. Now what? I usually
just hit it on a nail again but I really want to try this
canola oil and didnt know how much to use. Thanks!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 28, 2013 at 10:45
AM
If you are mixing it with Canola oil to make an oral, it
will mix at any ratio. 100 mg is about the standard dose
for a low tolerance person, so if it is mixed 50/50, you
would have to take 200 mg to get a 100 mg dose.
For oral, we generally add about 33%coconut oil, but as
long as you do the math, you can pick our own ratios.
Posted by john on February 28, 2013 at 11:46 AM
Thanks! Cant wait to try it! As for my ethanol reclaim
process, anything I should tweak or change?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon March 9, 2013 at 3:23 PM
Sorry John, can you elaborate on your question?
Posted by f rank l jones on June 9, 2013 at 12:49 PM
been wanting to ask about the reclaim still ,im about to order the
parts to
build a unit once again I do thank you
so is this unit suitable for small bathes? like im only doing small
batches.
in between harvest like only a coulpe of ozs each time once I feel like
Ive got this dialed in then I plan on running like half pounds,so is this
unit overkill?
or would I be better off using a distiller set up?how long would it take
to reclaim 1/2 liter? just to get a idea
looking forword to hearing back
frank
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 11, 2013 at 7:34 AM
Hi Frank, are you talking about the DIY alcohol still, or the
butane recycle system?
Posted by steve on February 23, 2013 at 3:04 PM
First BHOrun today and i have a question. When you smoke concentrates, are you
supposed to get a film, residue like feeling inside your mouth? or is that butane?
smh
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 24, 2013 at 8:09 AM
That is most likely plant waxes that are present in a raw oleoresin or
concrete. We remove those waxes by winterization, if we are going to use
the oil for vaporization.
We also remove it for oral meds, because they are basically inert and dilute
the potency. We remove it from our topical, because it is left behind on the
skin and prills up when rubbin the topical in.
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Removing them also removes some of the lighter terpenes, so the flavor
loses some of its flora undertones.
Posted by James on February 20, 2013 at 2:32 PM
Was also wondering how many minutes you guys purge absolutes at ambient
temperature in the 6 petri dish (3/16 of resin). Please let me know if there is a
more appropriate forum to discuss this in. Thank you!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 23, 2013 at 6:35 AM
As long as it takes. Usually three or four hours.
Posted by James on February 20, 2013 at 2:20 PM
My vacuum chamber reads at almost 28Hg, more like 27 3/4. Is this enough
negative pressure to evaporate ethanol at ambient temperatures? If I applied heat
from the bottom, what temperature would you recommend? My chamber is made
of thick stainless steel.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 23, 2013 at 6:42 AM
That could be either your gauge calibration, leakage, or that may be the
relative pressure at your altitude. Did you calibrate your gauges zero, hot
tight is the system, and what altitude are you at?
Some gauges faces twist off, and there is a calibration screw in the face near
the bottom where the sweep hand pivots. Vacuum grease can help seal
mating surfaces, and if 28 Hg of absolute pressure is all that you have at
your altitude, it is the same as -29-9 Hg.
Posted by Ben on February 17, 2013 at 7:00 PM
Hey GreyWolf, i was wondering your opinion on soxhlet extraction, like the Eden
labs Coldfinger?? What solvents what be best, if any??
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 18, 2013 at 7:32 AM
Soxhleting with a non polar solvent like Pentane or Hexane works OK, but
with a polar solvent it picks up excessive Chlorophyll.
Posted by nugget1 on February 17, 2013 at 10:33 AM
i have made a batch of oil and i hot water bathed it then put it on a skillet at which
bounced between 125-140 it sat for an hour i poped the bubbles with a pin then at
about an hour and half when i went to pop the bubbles it buddered up. I put some
on a pin and put a torch to it and it crackled quite a bit is there any way to re purge
to get any remaining butane out?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 17, 2013 at 10:35 PM
You can continue to purge until you feel it has achieved your desired
consistency. You may be dealing with residule water not butane. Butane
would just burn. Water will evaporate if left at 140F long enough. I would
suggest a quick trip north of 212F to make sure its gone.
Joe
Posted by James on February 12, 2013 at 1:18 PM
Before I go ahead and purchase these tubes, I was wondering if you could forsee
any problems using poplypropylene pipe 36 length and an inch in diameter. I
know the chemical comparability is fine, but do you think I would need some kind
of gasket between the male threaded pipe and female end cap? Just not sure if the
PP threads would be air-tight.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 13, 2013 at 9:35 AM
PP works fine and if you Teflon tape the threads, they should be tight
enough!
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Posted by James on February 11, 2013 at 9:50 AM
Great news! Thank you for the fast reply.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 12, 2013 at 10:42 AM
Welcome!
GW
Posted by James on February 10, 2013 at 7:38 PM
Was curious if you guys knew what PSI would be in a flowing packed column 36 in
length and 1 in diameter. Im looking into using schedule 8 polypropylene pipe
with an end cap on one end and clamped filters on the other. The max rating for
these tubes is 250 PSI, hopefully this is safe. Thanks for any and all help. Hope to
see you in March!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 11, 2013 at 7:25 AM
Ive never seen above 30 psi and usually far less.
Posted by Dr teeth on February 10, 2013 at 11:46 AM
Hello,
I recently purchased 17 0 proof ethanol (the best I could get in Ca) and did a small
test run. I was not very successful and had a very difficult time purging the water
out.
Im wondering if 99%isopropyl alcohol is acceptable for absolute amber
production?
On a side note, acrylic reacts with alcohol by cracking. So be careful with what you
make your purge chamber out of. Mine imploded and it sounded like a shotgun. I
was very fortunate to not be staring at it at the moment.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 11, 2013 at 7:36 AM
99%Iso will work for AA production.
You might also try having 190 proof shipped to you from
http://www.winechateau.com/
Posted by Zypher on May 6, 2013 at 2:45 AM
Would you please email me and elaborate? I am having difficultly
finding ethanol.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 7, 2013 at 9:24 AM
Email sent.
Posted by Goude Witty Comment on February 7, 2013 at 12:01 AM
Excuse the post if in the wrong area, but what are your thoughts on this product in
use for cannabis alchemy? Is it safe for use? Ultra-Ever Dry is a superhydrophobic
(water) and oleophobic (hydrocarbons) coating that will completely repel almost
any liquid. Ultra-Ever Dry uses proprietary nanotechnology to coat an object and
create a barrier of air on its surface. This barrier repels water, oil and other liquids
unlike any coating seen before. The other breakthrough associated with Ultra-Ever
Dry is the superior coating adherence and abrasion resistance allowing it to be
used in all kinds of applications where durability is required. video here.
http://youtu.be/IPM8OR6W6WE Thank you for all the information, have a
great day!!!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 9, 2013 at 8:15 PM
Good question! The MSDS doesnt provide enough information to tell, but it
sure looks interesting, doesnt it?
http://www.ultraeverdrystore.com/how-to-use/base-coat-
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safety.pdf
Lots of nasty stuff that you wouldnt want in an extract, but what is unclear
is what might be remaining and what some of the proprietary ingredients
are.
Posted by MC"Mr. Science" on February 6, 2013 at 3:33 PM
Hello good people of the S-P,
I never made it down to visit in person, as my life is, .. , vigorously evolving. But
rest assured, I have been very busy in the Z-L (zombieland) refining my extraction
technique, apparently to a look that is unseen around here. One of the vendors I
process for has asked me to just make the sticky shatter because people know what
it is and he cant / is tired of explaining what this stuff is.
I started calling it Absolute Sugar tm.
So, after having the rest of the internet give me enough info to get people sick and
maybe blow myself up, I joyously found this (and many more) thread and had the
process come together.
The material:
I have used everything from big honking yellow leaves mixed with sticks and
crumbles to tiny flavor samples of AAA flowers. I think the most important aspect
of the material is uniformity. It can be really dry or a little moist ( and I mean
little) and it can be material from any where but the stem I suppose, but it should
be uniform in size and moisture content. If uniformity is not achieved, partial
extractions as well as leaching undesirable elements out faster than normal occur.
I work with glass as well, so I have the benefit of having a kiln that is usually
somewhere between 400-1000 deg sitting around that I can lay material out near
to dry it if need be. I then put on a leather glove and push/grind all the material
through a #10 screen. The material is ready for packing the
Glass Column:
I am using medium wall tubes with an IDof 1 various lengths, the average holds
about 40 grams. The glass has a dome and orifice on one end and the tube is flared
on the other, assisting in keeping screens on.
Collection vessel:
I run the butane through and into a shallow wide pyrex bowl. This sits in oil
(cooking) in a binks pressure pot (used for painting) with rubber gasket, ports, etc,
but no view window. I am using carbon steel now, but as the product never comes
in contact with it, and has a lid on during purge (overhead drips from lid). This sits
on a hot plate in front of a large explosion proof fan in my shop. The fan is run by a
pulley to a remote motor isolated from the work environs.
Process:
Heat the collection tank to about 200 and start running either 5x or 7 x butane
through the column. After a while of watching the flow of butane, having run many
many columns, I started to release pressure from the can valve, but keep the
orifice covered, stalling the butane for a little soak. I usually run 2 cans through
(300 ml ea) and had been running them back to back. I noticed after an
experiment however that more extract can be gained by being able to wet the
material more times. The brunt of the solvent kick is when it initially wets the
material, it seems to me. So I took a column, and took note of the color of the
eluate. Then I took the same size column packed with the same material, ran one
can, used compressed air to blow it out thoroughly, then ran another. The initial
eluate was almost as amber as the eluate from the beginning of the first can. It ran
to clear much faster than the first can of course, but it seemed obvious that a gain
was made.
Next I thought about very pollen heavy material and the possibility of mud
blockage, or getting a puck formed in the tube that the solvent then takes path of
least resistance and does not work on. What about back flushing? The next trial was
releasing the bottle slightly from the orifice to allow some butane to escape,
enough so I see material move up the column a little, then press the bottle back to
correct flow. Hard to gauge if this is really helpful without a bit more precise
testing and measuring.
OK, pot of very cold amber bubbly butane purging off until it is a thick fluid with
more occasional bubbles, raise heat to 160 deg f. and vacuum down to -29 for a
while. I have to open and check temp a few times to check the temp and make sure
I dont burn it due to the lack of precision in my equipment. Once it is flat, it is fully
purged. Different strains seem to take different times.
Now I put the product back into solution in either ethanol or methanol, freeze for
many hours depending on schedule, then strain through coffee filter. Marvel at the
odd mud left, of course I have gloves so I can gently squeeze out the filter to get
the most product.
Then it gets laid out on glass sheets, I tip them back and forth to thin the material
and let it cure in a warm area for 7 hours or so. Then I quickly cool it, usually by
just setting outside in Seattle. When it is cold, I feel check the product, especially
the thick spots to make sure it is hardened, not sticky or mushy. Then I razor it
up/flake it off the glass. I use parchment over the scraper due to the stuff popping
2-3 feet away sometimes when scraped. What I have is a pile of amber crystal flake
stuff that generally does not melt back into an amber shard if kept cool. Not freezer
cold, like in a cabinet so warm temp spikes in the room dont bother it.
Some people like this as the final, some want shatter. I weigh it up into grams then
flash it on parchment in front of the kiln. The stone is usually over 190 deg, but the
pile of sugar is not there long enough to get over 125 deg. Just watch it, when flat,
cool, break into chunks for packing. Very transparent. One vendor made a joke
about do I have one with a thousand year old fly in it.
I have pictures of all this stuff if you want to see. I have put off writing this as I
knew it would take a while.
Just today I had a client say the last stuff popped on the nail when he went to
vaporize it. This generally means butane. It was a small batch, so not a bunch of
people got some, but no one else has complained, and I certainly have not had any
pop when I vaporized it.
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The only difference in the batch was I went to plastic containers at the urging of a
vendor instead of parchment envelopes. I measured out the grams into the cups,
put them on the warm stone, watched the sugar melt down in a few seconds and
removed to cool.
I did have one cup left over short a gram, with sugar not melted. I vaporized, no
pop. I put the cup in front of the kiln, and when it melted down, bubbles started to
appear. I removed it, cooled a little but not to full harden, vaporized, no pop. I did
not inhale to taste, nor did the client.
How can there be butane after the methanol wash and cure??
All other batches before this pineapple express have been fine with repeat clients.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 7, 2013 at 10:23 AM
Thanks for sharing bro! Looking at your process, my guess is that the pop
was water. Water will turn a smooth burning oil into a sputtering popping
spitting oil, and there is virtually no chance there was enough butane to pop
after your process.
Posted by lindsay on April 6, 2013 at 6:38 PM
What can you do to get the water out? Just leave the concentrate out
and let it evaporate?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 7, 2013 at 7:17 AM
How much water do you have, and what product do you wish
to end up with?
Posted by Budhappy on February 4, 2013 at 12:21 PM
One other thing, the thermos soak was for about 1 hrs each time, and got maybe 20
hits each time. Even for the fresh ph that was done today.
Posted by Budhappy on February 4, 2013 at 12:19 PM
Hi all.
Just wanted to say that I ordered a vacumn chamber and had my first vacumn
purged bho oil. I dont think that I would ever smoke any other kind. I picked
some buds from my purple haze, super lemon haze, and cheese, and a homemade
hybrid of of slh x oracle. These are still a few weeks away. Havent started flush
yet. First picked fresh buds, then stuffed them in large honey bee extractor.
-30C here, so placed outside for 12 hrs. Blasted 2 cans of near zero impurities
butane. Not much oil at all. 15-20 good tokes maybe.. Ended up being the color of
hard honey. Not really yellow, more clear. Dabbed it with a buddy, (going to buy
one of those too, a dabber tastes awesome), and wow. This doesnt taste like oil. Its
like walking into a flower shop, and smelling with your taste buds.I could feel the
residue all over my teeth, gums, cheeks for about 15-20 mins later. Very uplifting
and gave me goosebumps after about 25-30 secs of inhaling. I rewashed the weed
in the thermos method, and it came out really yellow. No heat was needed for the
purge, room temp and oil was still pliable. The rewash tasted about the same, but
not quite as potent. The comedown made me a little tired. Just thermosed some
purple haze today and came out dark yellow as well. I have been a smoker since
84, and never tasted oil this good. Just my 420 cents worth.
Happy medicating!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 7, 2013 at 11:57 AM
Thanks for sharing!
Posted by The Dissent Grow - Page 758 on February 3, 2013 at 7:07 AM
[...] not so little write up , covers a lot of shit. more than I even read. now let's
make some more oil! http://skunkpharmresearch.com/bho-extraction/
Colorado Amendment 20 compliant! I gave up playing guitar to grow weed, I gave
up tv to [...]
Posted by star crash on February 1, 2013 at 8:47 PM
So , instead of a thermos , I tried a one quart mason jar as a collection vessel .
Experimented with 20 gs of popcorn bud and soaked them for one hour (outside
temps are below freezing so this was easy) that filtered that liquid into a tray , let
the solvent (butane) evaporate , re-dissolved in 191 proof ever clear &let
evaporate again
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Yield was .7 5 gs of very clear amber.
2NDwash the buds were powdered and soaked in the mason jar for 2 hours &
again follow the above steps
Yield was 1.25 gs of a darker , yet still translucent amber grade extract
so , around a 10%total return in an extremely easy fashion . Total butane used was
1200 milliliters
how Id do?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 4, 2013 at 7:33 AM
Good job, your 10%yield is in the ballpark for popcorn, so it sounds like you
probably got it all and very clear amber, plus your darker amber grade
sounds like the right colors.
The real test is in the taste and effects! After trying it, how do you think it
turned out?
Posted by star crash on February 4, 2013 at 9:55 AM
Taste is exquiste Its incredible!! I vaporize with a dome globe &
titanium nail set up. One small dose &Im thoroughly medicated in a
way that smoking cannabis flowers just can not achieve. These
extracts are a true shatter amber and I cant really call it an oil
per say . Im very proud . Ive been smoking cannabis since 197 3 &at
almost 52 years of age Ive really discovered something special ,
thanks in part to folks such as yourself. I will try to get some pics up
at icmag
much peace from Star Crash!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 7, 2013 at 11:58 AM
Looking forwar to the pictures!
GW
Posted by How of ten do you dab? - Page 2 - Grasscity.comForums on January 30, 2013 at 8:30 PM
[...] [...]
Posted by Toke Signals with Steve Elliott | Absolute Medication: To Hash Oil And Beyond! | Toke Signals
with Steve Elliott on January 29, 2013 at 10:31 AM
[...] [Skunk Pharm Research LLC] [...]
Posted by Laron on January 26, 2013 at 9:50 AM
I found desecration jars at amazon I also have a vid on making a great chamber out
of a co2 alum pressure vessel the des jar is good to 29 inches of mercury complete
and total evacuation at EXTREAMLY low temps
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 29, 2013 at 6:20 AM
Love to see your video link!
GW
Posted by Thai Samon January 23, 2013 at 5:44 PM
Candy topical cream cough drops chapstick and questionable to some animal treat
slash meds
Posted by Thai Samon January 23, 2013 at 5:37 PM
decarboxylated oil plus your favorite honey plus 2 teaspoons of coconut oil plus
proper catalyst and mixing procedure makes absolute 100 percent measurable
amount gof THC given proper storage measures. that can go into any recipe,
homemade soda, favorite drink
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Posted by Thai Samon January 23, 2013 at 5:17 PM
Allows larger quantities of oil to come out cleaner with less effort for medical use
via vaporization and seems to leave the high in cannabinoid leaf material or
cellulose to be extracted for topical use. I would like to know if Im losing out on
precious Micro chemicals in my head stash by using this mmethod
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 31, 2013 at 3:48 PM
Maybe less flavor, but the important terpenes and cananbinoids should be
there.
GW
Posted by Thai Samon January 23, 2013 at 5:10 PM
silk screen from bubble bags work very well for screens and a add a question for
anyone.
does oil made from only kief only have a different chemical composition then usin
g kief and plant material or celluose together at the same time. I find that in all kief
g extraction allows larger quantities of oil additional in vaporizer a shin use to be
extracted
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 31, 2013 at 3:47 PM
Weve extracted premium oil from kif, and it is different that oil from plant
material.
Posted by Sppete13 on February 7, 2013 at 8:38 AM
What is the best way to do this?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon February 7, 2013 at 11:18 AM
If you are asking what the best method to extract BHO, I like
using a closed circuit Terpenator best, but a column or
thermos both work well, albeit at a higher operating cost.
Posted by jesse on January 20, 2013 at 6:14 AM
According to the cole-parmer compatibility chart butane causes a severe reaction
to silicone, so what are you suppose to vac purge on after you scrape it off Pyrex? I
saw you say it was ok to blast onto parchment, although certain company started
producing ptfe paper specifically for that purpose. Thoughts? Another question I
have is I scored a vac oven on ebay for 100 bucks but it doesnt a window in the
door so I have to open it to check on the oil, is that problematic? Can I replace the
door with lexan or will the butane cloud and crack it? Also you guys rock and I
wish I could come to or to take a class but I live in ri
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 21, 2013 at 8:56 AM
The word Silicone covers a range of manmade polymers, based on a silica
backbone, with carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and other atoms bonded at the
atomic level. It is used in oil and grease, silicone rubber, silicone resins,
silicone caulking, adhesives, etc.
We may be talking semantics and word usage with the Cole-Palmer
compatibility charts, as they are soaking mostly gasket materials in different
solutions, to observe weight gain, loss, and change of physical appearance.
The polymers dont all react the same to n-butane, and another issue Cole
Palmer would have against using a silicone gasket material, is its gas
permeability. It is about 400 times more permeable than butyl rubber, so
while it is super for medical applications requiring aeration, it stinks for a
gas tight seal.
A silicone resin spray, doesnt care about gas permeability, and the n-
Butane molecule has full valence orbit, it is not likely to react with the
highly inert Silicone resin. Neither appears to be reactive enough to start or
support a reaction at the temperatures involved.
I would be more concerned about PTFEfinding its way into my heated oil,
because even though it has a combustion temperature that starts
decomposing it as low as 200C/392F (163C/325F?), if you read the fine
print of the following two links, you will note the following issues, amongst
them HF acid as a pyrolysis byproduct:
http://msds.dupont.com/msds/pdfs/EN/PEN_09004a2f806ab36e.pdf
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytetrafluoroethylene
Acute inhalation toxicity: The thermal decomposition vapours
of fluorinated polymers may cause polymer fume fever with flu-
like symptoms in humans, especially when smoking
contaminated tobacco.
The pyrolysis of PTFE is detectable at 200 C(392 F), and it
evolves several fluorocarbon gases[21] and a sublimate. An
animal study conducted in 1955 concluded that it is unlikely
that these products would be generated in amounts significant
to health at temperatures below250 C(482 F).[22] More
recently, however, a study documented birds having been killed
by these decomposition products at202 C(396 F), with
unconfirmed reports of bird deaths as a result of non-stick
cookware heated to as little as 163 C(325 F).[21][23]
While PTFE is stable and nontoxic, it begins to deteriorate after
the temperature of cookware reaches about 533 K (260 C; 500
F), and decomposes above 623 K (350 C; 662 F).[24] These
degradation by-products can be lethal to birds, and can cause
flu-like symptoms in humans.[24] In May, 2003, the
environmental research and advocacy organization
Environmental Working Group filed a 14-page brief with the U.S.
Consumer Product Safety Commission petitioning for a rule
requiring that cookware and heated appliances bearing non-
stick coatings carry a label warning of hazards to people and to
birds.[25]
Meat is usually fried between 400 and 450 F (204 and 232 C),
and most oils will start to smoke before a temperature of 500 F
(260 C)is reached, but there are at least two cooking oils (refined
safflower oil and avocado oil) that have a higher smoke point
than 500 F(260 C). Empty cookware can also exceed this
temperature upon heating.
[edit]PFOA
Perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA or C8) has been linked to cancer,
thyroid disease, ulcerative colitis, and high cholesterol.[26] In
the form of an ammonium salt,[27] it is used as a surfactant in
the emulsion polymerization of PTFE,[28] [29] and has been
detected in some PTFE products. [30][31] The levels that have
been measured in nonstick cookware range from not detectable
to 75 parts per billion.[31] [32] These are lower than in PTFE
products such as thread sealant tape (with 1800 parts per billion
(1.8 parts per million) of PFOA detected) because nonstick
cookware is heated to volatilize PFOA.[30]
A DuPont study on Teflon PTFE did not detect any PFOA above
their detection limit of 9 parts per billion,[33] and DuPont says
no PFOA is in Teflon brand cookware.[34] A 2009 USEPA study
found levels of PFOA in nonstick cookware ranging from
undetected (with a detection limit of 1.5 parts per billion) to 4.3
parts per billion.[31] DuPont says there should be no measurable
amount on a finished pan provided it has been properly
cured.[35] While PFOA has been detected in the lowparts per
billion range in the blood of people,[36]exposure from nonstick
cookware is considered insignificant[37][38] despite the
marketing of other wares. However, at temperatures well above
those encountered in cooking,[39] PTFE pyrolysis can form
minor amounts of PFOA.[40][41]
In January 2006, DuPont, the only company that manufactures
PFOA in the US, agreed to eliminate releases of the chemical
from its manufacturing plants by 2015,[42] but did not commit
to completely phasing out its use of the chemical. In the
emulsion polymerization of PTFE, 3Msubsidiary Dyneon has
developed a replacement emulsifier[43] despite DuPont stating
that PFOA is an essential processing aid.[44] As of August
2008, the EPAs position was that it has no information that
routine use of household or other products using
fluoropolymers, such as nonstick cookware or all weather
clothing, poses a concern.[45]
GW
Posted by jesse on January 21, 2013 at 9:24 AM
Thank you. So do you think it is worth it for me to make a transparent
door for my vacuum oven?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 21, 2013 at 9:38 AM
Yes, but probably not out of Lexan. In the right thickness it
would be strong enough, but wouldnt like any upper 292F
decarboxylation temperatures and might suffer high cyclic
fatigue.
Lighting the oven and installing a tempered glass sight glass, or
small glass window just big enough to tell what was going on
might work better. For design purposes, glass has about the
same rigidity as alumnimum. Both have I values of 10 X10-6,
while steel is 30 X10-6.
Posted by Dr teeth on January 21, 2013 at 10:57 AM
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I justed used 3/8 acrylic for my homemade vacuum
chamber. I cycle it often and for long periods and it has
no problems. My 14x14 piece cost me around $25. It
rests on top of a 20 quart aluminum pot that was $38
shipped to my door. With my vac gauge, brass fitting and
vacuum hose my entire 5 gallon (12 id) vac chamber
was under $100. I suggest people just go look at some
diys instead of giving the DIY guys on eBay around $120
profit.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 22, 2013 at 5:34 AM
Good show building your own! How hot have you
operated it?
Posted by jesse on January 22, 2013 at 5:39 AM
Yeah making my own was next if the vac oven was
broke, I feel safer running an oven for ten hours, saw too
many crushed stock pots on tc lol
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 24, 2013 at 6:26 AM
Yeah, it definitely requires a heavy wall pot, as
atmospheric pressure is almost 15 pounds per square
inch.
Posted by f obextractions on January 18, 2013 at 10:11 PM
Where did you source your information that our sensory threshold for n-butane is
6.61ppm? thank you. A link would be greatly appreciated!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 19, 2013 at 10:20 AM
Hi FE! Sorry, after four hours of searching, I havent located my original
source, so Ive changed that reference in the posting. Thanks for pointing it
out to
As I recall, it came up in a search on the suitability of n-butane as a food
propellant, but too much time since I researched it too few brain cells left. If
I run across it again, I will record the source and give you a heads up.
GW
Posted by Mark on January 23, 2013 at 9:17 AM
Hello Skunk Pharm Researchers. Thank you for all of your dedicated work
here. In reference to a question posted by fobextractions, Jan 18, 2013, I
have found a different value and source for the sensory threshold of n-
butane. The TEXAS COMMISSION ON ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY
published FACT SHEET Butane, All Isomers July, 2012. The bottom pf
page 1 states, An odor detection threshold of 1,200 ppm was reported for
n-butane.
Hope this helps!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 24, 2013 at 6:54 AM
Thanks Mark, it does trump my Praxaire MSDS source for odor
detection! Still trying to find my data source on taste!
GW
Posted by Dr. Teeth on January 9, 2013 at 2:51 PM
Sorry, I have a lot of questions. Im a strong believer in The waiting man gets the
wind behind him. So stop rushing into things and plan properly in order to be
successful.
1) What length for single pass extraction do you recommend? Also with a 1
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diameter, how much dry material can you fit into say a 2 long extraction vessel?
2) I am wondering what vacuum pump and purge container you are using and if
you can link where I could purchase one or one similar online? I noticed that your
purge container has a rubber stopper that can allow the power cord for your
hotplate to work. Would you still recommend using a hotplate or could you simply
submerge the purge container into temperature controlled hot water?
3) I had a friend point out to me that a metal extraction vessel has a possibility of
creating a spark and starting a fire; so he recommended using plastic. Do you find
these claims to be valid or not really worth worrying about? I can order PP online
or get SS locally, they cost about the same.
4) As for the filter at the end of the extraction vessel, is a certain micron
recommended or does any fine mesh work?
Im sure I have more questions but cannot think of anymore at the moment.
Thank you
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 10, 2013 at 9:01 AM
When using columns, I ended up with three glass ones. A 12, a 24, and a
36. By a factor of 10X, my most used one was the 36 and the least used the
24. I either had a short run, or was in a hurry with a long one.
How much weight you get in a column, depends on what it is and how hard
you pack it. For instance, a 1 X1 1/2 X24 column on a Mk IIIA has 35.6
cubic inch internal capacity, and holds from 135 to 203 grams of material,
depending on whether it is prime bud or trim, how wet it is, and who is
packing it.
The way we prepare our bud, I pack about 150 grams in that column, so that
is about 4.2 grams per cubic inch. A 1 X24 column would therefore hold
about 80 grams.
Our pumps range from a surplus MASHpump, a CPS VP6DAC vacuum
pump, and a Robinair 15500. We got them all off e-Bay.
I picked up a glass vacuum desiccator from American Scientific, but you
might look at what they use in the epoxy casing industry to degas castings.
IE: http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Gallon-Vacuum-Chamber-With-
3-CFM-Vacuum-Pump-New-/130690001230?
pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item1e6dbb294e#ht_1811wt_932
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Gallon-Vacuum-Chamber-for-
Silicone-and-Resin-Casting-/130690140675?
pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item1e6dbd4a03#ht_1503wt_932
You can simply submerge a suitable container in hot water and in fact, we
also do that using a Lil Terp tank.
Your friends concerns are ill founded and the Terpenator wont work in
plastic, because of the heat transfer rates. The butane is in a closed cycle,
where there is no oxygen to burn, nor any way for a spark to get to it, unless
you have a leak.
Because it always possible to have a leak, we use these puppies only in well
ventilated areas, and away from ignition sources.
As the joke goes, Please lean back and relax for your trip, as all human
error has been removed from the controls of this vessel and absolutely
nothing can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong, go wrong..
We use a 20 mesh screen at both ends of the column, and pack two wadded
up coffee filters in both ends of the plant material, which the screens hold in
place.
We also filter it with a coffee filter, when we wash it out of the container with
ethanol, and again after we winterize the ethanol to remove waxes. We use
either a coffee filter, or a #1 Wattman (17 mic) filter, with a vacuum assist.
If we are serious, we then filter with a 0.2 micron syringe filter, to get out
mold and bacteria.
Posted by Les Reasonover on January 7, 2013 at 3:46 PM
What is the benefit, if any, of ingesting oil with THCA (low heat purged Concrete) as
opposed to oil that has undergone decarboxylation with THCA converted to THC?
I have found ingesting oil that has not undergone decarboxylation, that contains
high THCA and low THC provides good pain relief with less intoxication.effects. Is
this the reason for making such a oil? If not, what are the reasons? Are there some
conditions the high THCA and low THC extract is more effective for?
Great info! Thanks!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 9, 2013 at 9:48 AM
I am asking those same questions, as it would appear that undecarboxylated
cannabis oils still cure things. Is decarboxylation only necessary to make
the THC pass the blood brain barrier more readily, so that it is orally active?
So far the best answer that I have is that THCA may act on other receptor
sites than the CB-1, to create its effects.
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Posted by Les on January 9, 2013 at 1:44 PM
or reacts to the CB-1 receptors in a different way or
decarboxylates in the body releasing over time? I seem to get some
psychoactive effects from undecarboxylate oil/bud. Is this THCA or
CDBor some combination thereof or is it a small amount THCA that
has been decarboxylated? Either way, Im thinking it is essentially the
same as ingesting fresh bud (a very nice and popular way to medicate,
for pain at least) without the hassle of a constant supply of ripe fresh
harvested material. Thanks for your input!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 10, 2013 at 7:41 AM
The CB-1 receptors are in the brain, so the blood brain barrier
issue would be a problem for polar carboxylic acid.
CBD, reacting mostly with the CB-2 receptors scattered
throughout our bodies, doesnt produce psychoactive results,
as it is an analgesic. The CB-2 receptors do however control
much of our immune system, so Im guessing it is the CBDthat
is responsible for much of the effects and it doesnt have to be
decarboxylated to reach the CB-2 receptors.
Posted by Dayzt on January 10, 2013 at 9:00 AM
Great conversation regarding CBD! I just wanted to add
decarbed or not, infusing it with something (ie: cococnut
oil) will help keep it tied up in your system longer,
thereby giving a better chance to be effective before it
passes through the body. Just my 2c =)
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 11, 2013 at 6:24 AM
Very good point! One of the purposes of coconut oil in
our orals, are to tie up the liver processing it, so as to
increase cannabinoid residence time.
Posted by Les on January 11, 2013 at 7:47 AM
Yes Dayzt, I have been using olive and grape seed oils
for ingestion but after reading here I see there is
evidently an advantage to using coconut oil. I rub a
couple of drops of ~1:1 BHOand carrier oil on my gums.
Works fast and great! Thanks again for the excellent info
SPR. Very helpful!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 12, 2013 at 4:33 AM
Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Posted by CannaBliss Liberty on February 23, 2013 at 4:58 PM
Just wanted to point out that CB1 receptors are also
expressed in liver, fat, muscles (theres more) cells,
digestive tract and in the lungs and kidneys, to name a
few. There is also large concentrations in the spine.
Also Dr. Courtney has said that there is some evidence
that show the so called CB3 receptor (which does not
respond to any active Cannabinoid) responds to
Cannabinoid Acids.
Posted by hitboro on January 7, 2013 at 11:46 AM
Hi! Could you please help me come up with a way to filter the sulphur out of my
shatter? Its the best looking extraction but the buds had been under a sulphur
burner and it leaves a bad taste. Is there anyway of filtering sulphur out of the final
product?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 8, 2013 at 6:58 AM
I am happyto troubleshoot your sulfur problem. Please send your
telephone contact info to joeoakes@skunkpharmresearch.com and I
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will contact you in the evening.
Posted by Dayzt on December 28, 2012 at 11:08 AM
Hey there GW been doing a ton of reading on your blogreally great resource!!
Weve made some really nice BHOusing the Honey Bee Exctractor device from
BUZZnn.ca (check the website) and are looking to decarb our BHOto make it
usable orally like the Rick Simpson oil so if Im understanding correctly, we can
heat our BHO(thick, amber oil) slightly to decarboxilate it then maybe add a
small amount of coconut oil to it in that state, mix it together and syphon it to use
drop by drop? Comments..? Thanks again!!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 28, 2012 at 12:00 PM
Yes, place it in a 250F oven or hot oil bath and watch the bubbles to keep
track of decarboxylation as outlined in
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/decarboxylation/
Adding coconut oil is a good idea, as it keeps the liver tied up processing it
and it takes longer to remove the cannabinoids from our systems.
Posted by Dayzt on December 28, 2012 at 2:01 PM
Ok, thanks! I would assume we can just use the same pyrex weve
extracted the oil into, once the liquid butane has all evaporated..?
(Normally, for gathering BHOfor vaporizing, we do the wash with the
honey-bee device, then put the pyrex into another larger pyrex that
has hot water in it (a hot bath) to soften the oil then use razor-
blades to scrape up the oil and drip it into small vials. In order to do
that though, we have to use a lighter so it will drip off the blade into
the viali think that process may be burning off some of the THC..?)
So we should be able to just take the pyrex after the butane
evaporates and put into the oven at 250, watch for the bubbles to
stop, then add a small amt of coconut oil to the pyrex directly, stir it
in and pour into a vial or syphon it up?
Thanks againthis is very helpful, especially since we have such a
limited supply of product to work with, so every drop counts! peace.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 29, 2012 at 3:44 AM
It should work as you have outlined, but it is important that a
good hot water purge be used before putting the oil in the
oven, because excess butane can cause an explosion.
What we like to do instead, is use a deeper bain marie vessel to
catch and boil off the butane, and then set the bain marie vessel
directly in a 250F hot oil bath, with the ventilation hood going.
Posted by benjaminword on December 23, 2012 at 11:15 AM
Can you shoot bho on to parchment paper?
Your thoughts
Love the info on your site
Thanks
Ben
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 23, 2012 at 12:48 PM
People certainly can and do just that, to good effect.
I dont see anything in the silicone parchment paper that should be an issue,
but wouldnt use a silicone rubber pad, as it is unsuitable for butane service.
Thanks for the good thoughts!
Posted by Zypher on May 6, 2013 at 2:01 AM
What about the silicon pads here?
http://oilslickpad.com/
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 7, 2013 at 9:25 AM
We are experimenting with an Oil Slick pad in the vacuum
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chamber for purging, but now for blasting directly onto.
Posted by Will on December 20, 2012 at 11:01 PM
First, thank you! To Greywolf and the whole Skunkpharm team your sharing of
knowledge and experience has been such a blessing to me. Ive loved honing my
skills and brain storming some new projects thanks to your work.
Second, do you have to constantly pull a vaccuum on BHO? Ive seen people online
use a simple hand pump to evacuate the chamber and leave it there. Ive always
done a constant vacuum but never done a side by side comparison.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 21, 2012 at 4:50 AM
As the solvents purge from the liquid, it will cause the vacuum to decay and
atmospheric pressure to rise. It is necessary to keep the vacuum pumped
down, but you can pump it down and simply valve it off under vacuum, so
as to periodically shut down the pump. When the vacuum decays, simply
pump it back down again.
Posted by Jimmy on December 18, 2012 at 10:09 AM
Hey guys, absolutely love the site. Definitely the most informative resource on
extractions and the like.
My question is this: my friend just bought an 8cfm vacuum pump along with a nice
little desiccator. Works great. Problem is that he lives in a place that doesnt really
have the space to run butane safely. Combine this with the fact that we all ride
bikes and you can see how it would be difficult to transport the 50 pound pump
across town to my place just to extract outside.
So, in order to make life easy, weve left the pump at his house. He would like to
run the material at my place then take the non-purged oil in a container back to his
place to vacuum purge.
My concern is that waiting up to 20 minutes from the time the oil is extracted to
the time that it is purged will allow the oil to harden, thereby making it difficult to
fully purge the butane. The only way that I can see us removing all of the butane
from hardened oil is to reheat it . This worries me, though, as I fear that the
temperatures necessary to melt the oil back to the point of allowing the vacuum to
work will kill flavor. The point of having a vacuum is for us to maintain the lowest
temperatures possible. If this is indeed what were trying to achieve, does allowing
the oil to harden before purging force us to use higher temps than we would if we
transferred the oil straight into the vacuum chamber.
I just worry that the dude isnt getting the most out of his $300+ setup
Thanks!!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 19, 2012 at 6:08 AM
No problem, just heat the oil to 115F before vacuuming. The butane will exit
at that temperature and decarboxylation is minimized.
Posted by unlikelyhero432 on December 15, 2012 at 11:36 PM
I am interested in using your thermos method for small high quaility personal use
batches. It seems the most cost effective, straight forward, and safe. I do have a
few questions. You said you add the butane pre chilled? Is this done in a
refrigerator or freezer and for how long? Also When you transfer the butane
mixture out of the thermos, how fine is the strainer you use? Is there a specific
micron count to shoot for? And is it possible to purge all of the butane using only
low heat (suspended in a constant flow of 114 degree water for example) without
reaching decarboxylation and losing those valuable flavor and aromatic
components which I want to preserve? A decent vacuum system is financially out
of reach at this time but I still wish to make the highest quality product I can with
what I can afford. I dont necessarily care about consistency of the final product,
more the preservation of flavor, aroma, and potency.
Posted by unlikelyhero432 on December 16, 2012 at 2:21 AM
Also, when allowing the butane mixture to soak in the thermos, do you
leave the lid off to Allow butane to boil off? Or is the whole idea to keep the
thermos as sealed and cold as possible during the soak period to keep any
water content tied up in ice form until the butane is removed?
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Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 16, 2012 at 8:16 AM
I leave the top cap, with the holes in it, in place and drap a towel over
the thermos, in the shade somewhere. There is little outgassing, but it
will need to escape.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 16, 2012 at 8:22 AM
We stick it in a freezer set at -18C/0F until it is stable at that temperature.
I just dump the butane through a French Chinose strainer for a fast drain,
because I will filter it again when I wash it out of the collection vessel with
alcohol, and yet again when I winterize it.
If I wasnt winterizing, I would dump it through a wire strainer setting in a
larger paper filter, or stretch a paper filter over the opening of the thermos.
A paper filter by itself will start to clog, resulting in a lot of oil left behind on
it as the flow slows to a stop.
Posted by unlikelyhero432 on December 16, 2012 at 8:31 AM
Thanks for the speedy response! I see so there are a couple extra
steps I was unaware of. Forgive my ignorance, but may I ask what
winterizing entails? So after the butane is purged from your product
you use alcohol to easily remove the product from its collection
vessel, and then run it through a different screen? Then evaporate the
alcohol content? Clarification would be most appreciated. (If youd be
willing to get more detailed about your process please message me at
entity_exe@yahoo.com).
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 17, 2012 at 5:50 AM
Yes, we heat 190 proof to boiling and pour it in the collection
tank, to dissolve and wash out the collected oil.
We filter the mixture through a coffee filter, or through a
Wattman #1 lab filter, using vacuum assist.
We place that mixture in a freezer for 48 hours, to coagulate
the waxes and fats, which we filter out using a coffee filter or a
Wattman #1.
We then evaporate away the alcohol.
Reply sent to your e-addy.
Posted by unlikelyhero432 on December 17, 2012 at 3:09 AM
I apologize for asking so much, but the more I learn, the more
questions I have! Compiling all necessary information in logical order
is a project in its own! I should clarify that I intend to make these
extractions for vaporizing.
I found your seperate thread detailing the winterizing process. So
with this method, after the butane and plant material have soaked
long enough in the thermos, you first do a fast and crude strain into
a collection vessel to boil off the butane content?
Then wash with ethanol and do a finer strain through coffee filters
Before winterizing, Or just go straight to winterizing without filtering
first? And when boiling off the ethanol after all waxes etc have been
filtered out, what process and safety precautions should be taken?
Another question pushing the winterized absolute through a
syringe filter would be the last step of the process? To remove any
final remaining plant or bacteria particles Id assume.
Again I apologize for all of the questions. I want to do this safely and
correctly the first time. I would like to thoroughly document my
experiences for everyone else to learn from as you all have.
Thank you.
-T
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 17, 2012 at 6:18 AM
Submitted on 2012/12/17 at 6:14 AM| In reply to
unlikelyhero432.
Then wash with ethanol and do a finer strain through coffee
filters Before winterizing, Or just go straight to winterizing
without filtering first?
You can do it either way, but we usually strain twice.
Some of the waxes also fall out during the first filter,
so there is less to filter the second time around.
And when boiling off the ethanol after all waxes etc have been
filtered out, what process and safety precautions should be
taken?
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You can simply evaporate away the alcohol, boil it off,
distill it off, or vacuum it off. It is a flammable, and
should be treated as such.
Another question pushing the winterized absolute through a
syringe filter would be the last step of the process? To remove
any final remaining plant or bacteria particles Id assume.
0.2 micron syringe filtering is the last step, and we use
it only when we have reason to be concerned.
Most of our stuff just gets coffee filter filtration, or
Wattman #1 using vacuum.
Again I apologize for all of the questions. I want to do this
safely and correctly the first time. So I need to make sure I
have all steps in order. i would like to thoroughly document
my experiences for everyone else to learn from as you all have.
Thank you
-T
Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Posted by Bob Gargamel on December 18, 2012 at 9:49 PM
I am in the midst of trying a new methodwel new to meBlasting the
butane thru the tube into a mason jar. letting the butane evap, then using
everclear in the jar and putting it into the frezer for 48 hours. after that im
goin to filter the alcohol and then let that evap in a warm bathhoping it
comeds out well.tryin to maximize all meds..im used to doin a steam
purgehasnt done me wrong yet but still wanna learn new ways.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 19, 2012 at 5:56 AM
Glass doesnt tolerate thermal stess well, so you might consider
blasting into a stainless container and washing it out with the ethanol
and pouring it into the fruit jar for winterization.
Ive had enough ah shits using fruit jars, that I am very selective
where.
Posted by Bob Gargamel on December 20, 2012 at 1:41 PM
I had thought of that so i am only blastin into each jar once
then its cleaned and cycles to the curing roomand also i
dont use high heats, at least not enough to fracture the jar, but i
had thought about that prior, good point. well in the end i
filtered the solution, into a pyrex dish where i then gave a few
hour warm bath to it. end result amazingBob Gargamel
from OR
P.S. Yous have an awesome site here. So much info and
innovative ideas.RIDEMIGHTY HIGH!!!!
Posted by Bob Gargamel on December 20, 2012 at 1:46 PM
also, i usually do a steam purge and the end product is a
shatter or Jolly rancher as i call it.this end product is
more a plyable taffy,very easy to dabinsky
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 21, 2012 at 4:51
AM
Good job and thanks for the good thoughts!
Posted by unlikelyhero432 on December 15, 2012 at 11:28 PM
I am interested in using your thermos method for small high quaility personal use
batches. It seems the most cost effective, straight forward, and safe to expirement
with starting out. I do have a few questions. When prechilling your butane, do you
put it ina regular fridge or freezer and for how long? Also When you transfer the
butane mixture out of the thermos after it has soaked in the plant material,, how
fine is the strainer you pour it through? Is there a specific micron count to shoot
for? And is it possible to purge all of the butane using only low heat (suspended in a
constant flow of 114 degree water for example) without reaching decarboxylation
and losing those valuable flavor and aromatic components that i seek to preserve?
How long would this take, and would I have to constantly aid the butane escaping
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process by popping bubbles etc? A decent vacuum system is financially out of
reach at this time. But I still wish to make the highest grade product I can with
what I can afford.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 17, 2012 at 5:42 AM
Submitted on 2012/12/15 at 11:28 PM
I am interested in using your thermos method for small high quaility
personal use batches. It seems the most cost effective, straight forward, and
safe to expirement with starting out. I do have a few questions.
When prechilling your butane, do you put it ina regular fridge or freezer and
for how long?
I put it in a 0F freezer, until it reaches 0F. Usually I put it in
overnight.
Also When you transfer the butane mixture out of the thermos after it has
soaked in the plant material,, how fine is the strainer you pour it through?
I use a French chinoise wire strainer, followed by a commercial
coffee filter, or plan to strain it again while winterizing.
Is there a specific micron count to shoot for?
0 to 20 microns works well.
And is it possible to purge all of the butane using only low heat (suspended
in a constant flow of 114 degree water for example) without reaching
decarboxylation and losing those valuable flavor and aromatic components
that i seek to preserve?
Any heat decarboxylates, low heat just does it slower. 114F is not
hot enough, without a vacuum. Try 140F at atmospheric
pressure.
How long would this take, and would I have to constantly aid the butane
escaping process by popping bubbles etc?
~8 to 24 hours.A decent vacuum system is financially out of reach at this
time. But I still wish to make the highest grade product I can with what I can
afford.
Posted by Minor Wager on December 14, 2012 at 4:30 PM
Thanks for all the great info! Been all over the forums and Im even more confused
than when I started. Seems like everyone just wants to argue shatter vs
wax/butter. Inevitably, during my super thin film vac purging of micro batches
(.5-1gm) of clear bho, there is a small point(s) created that is a little cloudy. The
longer I purge, the more the clouds grow, usually from the center out until the
entire sample is a honeycomb or wax cookie. Ive aso noticed this process
seems to be more frequent with higher temps and/or if I scrape or otherwise
agitate the oil before the vac. Was hoping you guys have a straight answer as to
what is actually happening here and how to avoid this.
Also, after a few days storage of my glassy shatters, the outer surface becomes
covered in micro bubbles, causing the surface to appear lighter in color and
seemingly very dry. Not sure how these bubbles form at all as the oil completely
hard and glassy. When handled, the bubbles break, leaving a dry dust. Some have
said these is unpurged butane while others say it is moisture escaping?
Thanks again for any help!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 15, 2012 at 4:52 AM
I think you get so many different answers, because no one knows for sure
what is causing the waxing action, including me.
As far as clouds, Ive noticed that if I pull a hard vacuum on BHOat room
temperature, that bubbles try to form, but cant. As I warm it up, at about
115F, bubbles start to break free at the surface.
I get no waxing at 115F, though I have from about 130/160F.
What comes off first, is the solvent in random sized bubbles, followed by
fizzy CO2 bubbles. They do come off in clouds and I suspect the source of
your post purge bubbles.
What temperature do you purge at and at what point do you stop purging?
Posted by Minor Wager on December 15, 2012 at 7:37 AM
I try to keep my purge temp around 120F and was under the
impression that I should purge until all bubbling stops. I definitely do
get spots of tiny, fizzy, equally sized bubbles and alot of times, these
are the starting points of the waxing. At these temps, can these CO2
bubbles be the result of decarboxylation?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 15, 2012 at 7:48 AM
Yes, there is decarboxylation at 115F, it is just slower.
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Posted by concentrait on December 14, 2012 at 12:56 PM
How long do you vac it for
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 15, 2012 at 4:19 AM
Untill the solvent bubbles stop forming and the pool clears.
Posted by Oliver on December 10, 2012 at 5:59 PM
So I am vacuum purging about 10 grams right now, with no heat.
Is heat necessary?!
If not, how long should 10grams take approximately?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 11, 2012 at 6:58 AM
With no heat at all, even in a thin film, it will take days or weeks. If you look
very closely, you will see bubbles trying to form under the surface, and
making bulges, but are unable to break free. If you will bring the
temperature up to 115F, they will break free and start to disapate.
Posted by Jack Draak on January 5, 2013 at 11:09 AM
Something Im experimenting with is using a bit of iso-alcohol in the
capture/purge vessel even a teaspoon will greatly change: boiling
point, viscosity &surface tension My working theory is that with
the reduced viscosity you need less heat and/or vacuum to purge the
butane and propane. Of course, you either need to dehydrate your
alcohol or consider that youll be adding a small amount of water to
your solution. By raising the boiling point somewhat, you reduce the
chance of having a rolling boil which could be seen as beneficial: with
a slower purge its easier to maintain a safe vapour concentration
level; the also means that the cooling effect will be slowed-down,
reducing or eliminating some condensation concerns, perhaps
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 13, 2013 at 6:12 AM
Good show experimenting! Hoping you will share your results
bro!
Posted by Derrick on January 13, 2013 at 11:30 AM
Just wanted to say thank you for all of the great information youre
sharing. I can honestly say that I have learned more about the BHO
process from your sharing than anywhere else. Maybe you can help
me feel a little more confident in my lab skills by addressing one of
my concerns. I purchased a 12 glass vacuum desiccator and Robinair
model#15500 pump. I would like to make a butane free extract
however I am concerned about the safety of using a hot plate inside
the vacuum chamber. Would you mind sharing with me your
reasoning on the safety of this method so I can confidently produce
the cleanest and safest BHOfor our Colorado patients. Thanks.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 14, 2013 at 4:52 AM
The laboratory hotplate has solid state controls and is
sparkless. Under vacuum there isnt sufficient oxygen to
combust the solvent.
Posted by Shannon on December 9, 2012 at 12:48 AM
Ive searched deep and wide and this website is by far the most complete and
accurate collection of information for anyone looking to do solvent extractions
safely. Thank you for sharing so much hard earned knowledge and taking the time
to put together an easy to navigate site.
Have you tried using soda or Cornelius kegs in any of your terpenator
incarnations? Stainless steel, liquid and vapor taps, a port on top you can reach
your arm in, 5 gallons @ 130psi max. Great success, except the butane swells the
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rubber o-rings so I have to swap them out from time to time.
Also, what advantages and disadvantages do you see in using this machine for
recovery?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 9, 2012 at 4:44 AM
No, but I sure looked at them. The terpenator tank needs to hold both
pressure and vacuum, which ostensibly makes the Cornelius keg lid design
unsuitable.
Are you able to pull -29.9Hg on your kegs?
The primary benefits that I see using recovery is that we can extract a gram
of oil for about $0.038, dont pollute the atmosphere, and it is a safer fully
enclosed process for most folks. The advantage of using pumps over passive
recovery, is speed. I can extract twice as much material in 15 minutes using
a Terpenator Mk III, than I can using a Lil Terp passive extractor, in 1 hour,
45 minutes.
GW
Posted by Shannon on December 9, 2012 at 9:51 AM
Thanks for the speedy response, here are some more details on my
current process.
1. Keg filled with plant matter
2. Keg hooked to another empty keg from liquid to liquid tap with
clear line
3. Recovery machine hooked to empty keg vapor tap
4. Recovery tanks liquid tap hooked up to 1st kegs vapor tap
5. Recovery machine turned on
6. Liquid from recovery tank slowly added to 1st keg keeping under
10psi (freezes keg)
7 . When I see liquid coming through the clear line from keg to keg I
flip the first keg over.
8. Continue adding liquid butane keeping under 10psi.
9. When I see liquid in the clear line again I know the 1st keg is full of
sub-freezing liquid butane and I flip the keg back right-side-up.
10. When I see air in the clear line again I disconnect the two kegs and
fill the 1st one with liquid butane @ 80psi for a second, room temp
run.
11. I place the second keg in a bucket of hot water and leave it on the
recovery machine until it reads <5psi
12. I blow the remaining, now fairly thick, butane from the 2nd keg
into a mason jar which has a bulk-head fitting in the lid and connects
to the recovery machine for a 115F @ -29.9"Hg final purge.
In my previous posting "this machine" was supposed to be a link to
the brochure for the machine I'm using, but the HTML force is not
with me today.
http://buy1.snapon.com/products/diagnostics/salessheets/EEAC307C-
308C.pdf
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 10, 2012 at 7:17 AM
Thanks for sharing Shannon! I see you solved the issue with the
keg lid sealing system, by not using vacuum.
Posted by Shannon on December 10, 2012 at 7:33 AM
Correct, Im not pulling a vacuum on the kegs
themselves, but first transferring to a more appropriate
vessel.
What Im most curious about is what your thoughts are
on the machine I linked to in my previous posting.
This one:
http://buy1.snapon.com/products/diagnostics/salessheets/EEAC307C-
308C.pdf
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 11, 2012 at 6:50
AM
The important question that I am unable to answer, is
whether the crank case is oil less or not. As it doesnt say
so, and it has an oil separator, I suspect that it may not
be. If it isnt oil less, the butane will eventually wash out
the bearing lubrication and not only contaminate the
meds, but burn out the bearings.
The rest of the specs look good and the -30Hg
capabilities is impressiove. You might contact Snap On
directly and ask whether it is oil less!
GW
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Posted by Paul Thacker on December 7, 2012 at 1:35 AM
While we use 180F to vacuum purge a raw oleoresin, adding heat isnt necessary
when thin film vacuum purging raw oleoresins redissolved in ethanol. The alcohol
will boil away under 28.5Hg at ambient temperatures, as will the water that is left
behind, even without adding any heat.
can you explain this to me a little furthur? I struggle with purging for some reason,
with both techniques vac and straight low heat Ive been told disolving in alcohol
and evaporating doesnt help the process, and have had that experience myself.
please help me! D:
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 7, 2012 at 6:24 AM
Not sure that I understand the question, but the point of the paragraph in
question, is that alcohol and water both boil at ambient temperatures in thin
films under vacuum.
The reason for dissolving in alcohol, was to winterize a non polar extraction,
which definitely helps purify the essential oil, but it is at the cost of some
terpenes. The price of taking out the plant lipids and waxes.
Posted by Paul Thacker on December 7, 2012 at 6:52 AM
let me ask a different question then i have a bunch of slightly
unpurged oil that i want to refine down to a safer state the purging
process has taken a toll on it and it is hard and taffy like even when
warmed to 130*. what would you suggest me do? Vac is out of the
question because mine doesnt work. I struggle with all of this
biochem stuff, i just want safe medication to consume. Im so
confused because i follow the purging directions word for word
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 8, 2012 at 7:50 AM
Are you going to vaporize it or take it orally?
Posted by paul thacker on December 8, 2012 at 9:01 AM
I was hoping to vape it
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 10, 2012 at 6:29
AM
Safe to vaporize is easy.
For starters, n-butane is non toxic at the levels found in
poorly purged oil, it just tastes bad.
We can taste butane at levels far below levels of toxic
concern, so if you are purged to the level that you cant
taste it, you are more than safe.
As you are planning to vaporize the oil, you have a
couple of easy options available to you.
The first involves placing the oil in a 10 Pyrex pie plate,
on a 130/140F surface, until it purges to the desired
level by taste test. About 4 to 24 hours.
The second involves placing it in a suitable container,
and placing that container in a 250F oil bath and
watching the bubbles.
The first multi sized bubbles to come off will be the
solvent, and the small equally sized fizzy bubbles will be
CO2 from decarboxylation. As you will be vaporizing the
oil, you dont need it decarboxylated, so as soon as only
the small fizzy bubbles are left, remove it from the hot
oil and cool. That takes about 15 minutes.
Posted by Kendall on December 8, 2012 at 2:36 PM
I am having many of the same problems as Paul it seems.
In my case, I would be vaporizing. What would I do?
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Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 10, 2012 at 6:29
AM
How does my answer to Paul work for your case?
Posted by Paul Thacker on January 8, 2013 at 11:41 AM
Now I have the same problem but wanted to cook with it
crockpot style is there anything i need to do to it
before? is the residual butane harmful to me when
ingested this way? Thanks for all your help!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon January 9, 2013 at 9:17 AM
Be sure your Crockpot has sensitive enough controls, as
most dont, and get a quality thermometer. We like the
Cuisinard, and the Rival fondue pots for this purpose,
and use a mercury lab thermometer, a digital, and a
laser pyrometer to measure temperatures.
Residual butane is more of an issue of bad taste at the
levels typically found in underpurged BHO. If you set the
oil pot at $250 and pull it as soon as the random sized
solvent bubbles stop rising, it will also be below sensory
threshold.
Posted by James jackson on November 27, 2012 at 10:45 PM
Wow you are very smart with ur oil extracting.I have been trying different
methods and was wondering without using heat, and letting my extract sit out for a
week or two and let the butane evaporate on its own. Would this work?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 28, 2012 at 4:29 AM
It would work, I dont know what the time line would be.
At a given atmospheric pressure, purging is time at temperature, so less
temperature equals more time.
Once the surface has solidified and skinned over however, it takes a lot more
time. Enough heat to keep the surface plastic or liquid, will speed things
along.
It takes less time if the surface area is large, and the film thickness small, so
that the butane molecule doesnt have as far to travel.
It also takes less time if you blow filtered air against the evaporation
surface, to keep the enriched layer blown away.
It takes less time if you drop the atmospheric pressure, by using vacuum.
We like both low heat and high vacuum, using 115F @ -29.9Hg, for
maximum retained carboxylic acid.
Posted by James jackson on November 29, 2012 at 3:06 AM
Awesome answer! Thank you.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 29, 2012 at 4:43 AM
Youre welcome!
GW
Posted by nate on November 19, 2012 at 11:10 PM
Wow nice oil! I make oil myself for our local co op but I have been on a mission
trying to get my oil clear! Having issues please e mail me I have a question
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 21, 2012 at 6:02 AM
Graywolfs e-addy is: graywolf@skunkpharmresearch.com.
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Posted by Debbie on November 16, 2012 at 4:31 PM
Hi, Ive been using Rick Simpson oil for osteosarcoma in my sinus area. Its been
hard to find lately and ended up with this small square of bho. I was putting a small
drop on a small piece of bread. Can I ingest the bho in the same way?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 19, 2012 at 7:02 AM
Yes, or you can mix it with a little vegetable oil so as to be dropperable.
The oil also ties up the liver for awhile, which keeps it from breaking down
the cannabinoids as rapidly, thus increasing apparent potency. You might
achieve the same thing with bread, by dipping it in olive oil, after folding it
around the grain.
Posted by adamon November 13, 2012 at 10:15 AM
HEy there! quick question about bho color and consistency
i have been making bho for a while now, i have done many different processes for
extraction and purging. from pumps to rapid heat from below to rapid heat from
the top. my question is, How do you get orange chunky wax? i can easily make
pure golden wax that can be handled if your quick about it, but can also be
extremely adhesive if you slowly push into it. i also make a lot of wax that is more
like a hash texture, its soft and somewhat crumbles to the touch. the flavor and
high of each is about the same. only thing i change is the process and those two
types are all i can get to come out. i only use premium trim, no shade leaves, lots
of kief. i use a large stainless steel tube that hold around 100 grams of trim. i crush
the trim but dont grind it down, never put more than 3 cans through one tube,
usually get about 11 grams per tube. what can i do to get the solid orange texture?
thanks for all the help!!!!
(Michigan MMP)
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 16, 2012 at 5:10 AM
The oil has to remain in carboxylic acid state to stay hard, smooth and waxy
to the touch at room temperature. We vacuum purge the raw BHOoleoresin
extraction from prime bud at -29.9Hg and 115F to get our best results. We
warm it slightly to remove it from the 6 Petri dish, as it is too brittle
otherwise.
Younger material is lighter colored, and decarboxylated material is not
only darker, but runnier and stickier.
Posted by Dr. Hunchback on November 12, 2012 at 5:53 PM
Hi! Im loving this site. Theres sooo much great information here. But, I have a
couple of questions regarding your thermos BHOextraction method.
First, it appears from the photos that youre using a 12oz. thermos. Is that correct?
Also, do you gently pack the thermos with material the same way as you would a
Flow Through Column? And finally, how many cans of Butane does it take for each
extraction? For the first and second run?!
Thanks again for having such a great site. You guys rock!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 16, 2012 at 4:49 AM
Thanks for the good thoughts!
We use whatever sized thermos that we run across at Goodwill, which we
pack more lightly than a column. Pressed firmly, but not tightly.
I add butane untill I am about an inch above the plant material for all packs.
Posted by MCon November 12, 2012 at 5:07 PM
Hello, thanks for the mother load of info. Question: I remember back in the day
reading about extraction and enhancement techniques, one of which was to soak
the plant material in water for a day, then dry and process, the idea being that you
would leach out most of the water soluables first. Seems like this would help with
the Butane and water soluables issue, yes?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 16, 2012 at 4:50 AM
That technique tones down the chlorophyll, but also washes away some of
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the trichomes. We dont use it for that reason,
Posted by taylor on November 9, 2012 at 2:54 PM
what vacuum pump do you use when you do your runs?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 19, 2012 at 7:13 AM
A CPS and a Robinair for evacuation, and an Appion for recovery.
Posted by concentrait on November 1, 2012 at 5:11 PM
Can you please explain what causes the oil/shatter to become budder/earwax? I
can not find a straight answer really on the subject
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 2, 2012 at 5:29 AM
Ive never heard an answer that I embrace either bro! It looks like an
emulsion to me, but not everyone agrees with that assessment.
A good question, which Ill pass on to Joe, our biochemistry braintrust, and
ask him to share his thoughts.
GW
Posted by concentrait on November 2, 2012 at 5:48 AM
Im starting to believe that also because before the alcohol had
completely evaporated I stirred a small section lightly of my
winterized bhoand it buddered. The taste of alcohol never left.
Budder tends to hurt my sensitive throat and tongue more. So the
question becomes is the butane emulsion safe to consume in large
quantities, which is nearly impossible to answer because it will
budder with varying amounts of tane.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 3, 2012 at 6:55 AM
n Butane has a LC50 Inhalation Vapor Rat, of 658000 mg/m3
4 hours. It is a simple asphixiate and not of health concern at
the levels you would find them in oil that looks solid, but hasnt
been fully purged. Its low toxicity is why n-Butane is often
used as a food propellant.
Posted by cxxc@.comon November 8, 2012 at 11:18 PM
look up nucleation
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 9, 2012 at 9:18 AM
Ummm, in what sense?
Posted by jt on October 19, 2012 at 7:46 PM
does winterizing remove any unpurged butane?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 20, 2012 at 5:35 AM
Yes, that is a highly effective way to do so. Ethanol boils at about 17 3F and
n-Butane at about 31.5F.
GW
Posted by concentrait on September 29, 2012 at 5:56 PM
Can you explain the difference between ISOand n-butane and why the latter is
superior?
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Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon September 30, 2012 at 6:00 AM
ISO, made with the polar alcohol Isopropyl, has more polar elements in it
than the non polar butane.
Not sure I would say that it is superior, but it is easier to extract pristine oils
with non polar butane, because it doesnt pick up as many water solubles or
chlorophyll, and it is easier to purge, due to its low boiling point.
The test panels actually rated QWET and QWISOfrom cured material, more
flavorful than butane extracts from cured material, because it has more
floral undertones. All three were rated effective, to incapacitating,
depending on the tolerance and dosage.
Posted by Shannon on December 15, 2012 at 7:38 AM
I think he meant the difference between iso-butane and n-butane.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon December 16, 2012 at 9:34 AM
Clarification???
GW
Posted by Marc on September 29, 2012 at 2:48 PM
When mentioned above, most flavorful from yourself and test panels, Do you mean
literally, immediately frozen when picked? Or cured for 5-7 days then packed in a
Column to freeze? Sorry Im confused.. I just want to get it right before I start a
trial run!
Posted by Marc on September 29, 2012 at 3:54 PM
I just read you recommend a thermos if freezing my material.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon September 30, 2012 at 5:53 AM
Either a tube or thermos will work, but the thermos is more efficient,
because at low temperatures the extraction rate slows way down and
the thermos allows you to soak the material.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon September 30, 2012 at 5:51 AM
Cut up and pack in the thermos or column right off the plant, and place in
the freezer. Make sure the material has no water standing on it, as it will
freeze and cover up the trichomes.
Posted by f rank l jones on July 28, 2013 at 5:37 PM
I recently did try the thermos soak extraction ,
using dried cured frosty bud and I was pleased(smile) now im about
to do the fresh cut frozen using the thermos soak so my question is do
we use the same soak times when using fresh cut frozen flowers? and
is it possible to rerun a 2nd time? Looking forword to hearing about
this
thank yas and hope all is well
frank
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 30, 2013 at 9:08 AM
I would suggest a 30 minute soak, followed by a 1 1/2 hour
soak with the fresh frozen. You can run it as many times as it
takes to get the trichome heads, as long as you keep it frozen
and a 100Xmicroscope will tell you when you are done.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon September 28, 2012 at 6:51 PM
It means that not everything was volatilized. Periodically you should heat your
nail to glowing red to turn all remaining organic compounds to CO2 and water
vapor, like you do in a self cleaning oven at about 7 00F.
I lightly brush off the light gray ash that forms during use, but never clean my nail,
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skillet, or wand beyond that super heat and self clean.
Posted by to on August 29, 2012 at 3:31 PM
you cant used his info without permission.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon September 2, 2012 at 7:10 AM
Are you refering to the information that he has placed on public domaine?
Posted by to on August 29, 2012 at 3:30 PM
You guys have used the TAMISIUMinfo and videos! SOsad!!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon September 2, 2012 at 7:12 AM
If David wants the links sending potential customers to his public domaine
site removed, all he has to do is ask. Why have you taken it on yourself to
speak in his capable behalf?
Posted by First time Aussie Grow - Page 199 - Grasscity.comForums on August 8, 2012 at 10:25 PM
[...] [...]
Posted by Just made some oil today... - Page 5 on August 8, 2012 at 7:00 PM
[...] Here is the best write up I've ever seen, thx Gray Wolf
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/bho-extraction/ Reply With [...]
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 9, 2012 at 7:33 AM
Thanks for your enthusiasm and good thoughts! Hope you find stuff that is
useful!
Peace GW
Posted by justin on August 15, 2012 at 6:03 PM
Where could I get Rick Simpson Oil in Bay Area.My mom has a colun
cancer stage 2 so I would like to buy for her.
Thanks GW
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 16, 2012 at 8:44 AM
Sorry, I dont know where to get oil in the bay area. You might
try posting on a medical forum like
http://www.greenpassion.org/, and ask that question.
GW
Posted by David myrick on October 15, 2012 at 4:27 AM
Thanks for your information.! Was wondering about any
extractions done with any other fruits or flowers to combine
them together to enhance the floral flavors? An it would effect
the Thc ?
Thanks from all @ 3mc delights
Hey Justin, rick just call me an sent me your Simpson oil.link
me an cure Mom!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 15, 2012 at 4:37 AM
No but it is on the project agenda to mix in other terpene
sources, so as to replace monoterpenes and
sesquiterpenes lost during purging. An alternative is to
just purchase and blend in other essential oils, but
extracting them along with the cannabis sounds like a
better idea.
GW
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Posted by Mane on August 5, 2012 at 9:59 PM
Awesome write up! How did you make that stand thing for the glass columns? Id
be really interested in making one, my arms have been getting tired!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 6, 2012 at 5:11 AM
Thanks for the good thoughts!
The stand is made from a cat litter bucket and the clamp from a 2 X4 and a
couple pieces of 3/8 all thread, with wing nuts. All scientific grade or
better, of course
GW
Posted by cedar on November 27, 2012 at 5:31 PM
i asked my local pet supply for scientific grade kitty litter and they
called me a wing nut! help!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon November 28, 2012 at 4:15 AM
They ostensibly have no sense of humor. A standard grade
kitty litter bucket will work.
Posted by TOOOOOOooooooooo on August 3, 2012 at 9:37 PM
Awesome article! ive allread used your thermos method several times with solid,
consistent yields. One question though and I know you already touched on this but
I still dont fully understand. Do the effects and medicinal qualities carry over when
converting into oil? What im asking is; is there any point in me buying, lets say,
blueberry, when its going to be the same high as oil made from Purple kush, or any
combination of strains for that matter?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 4, 2012 at 6:03 AM
The essential oil from each of the strains tastes and effects differently,
because the mixtures are all slightly different. Like bud, it works best if you
select a strain that works well for you specifically.
Having said that, they all work for my pain, just some better than others.
Trainwreck works best overall for me, but some like C-99 are more uplifting,
and others like Hippy Chick make me want to eat everything in sight.
ES
Posted by TOOOOOOooooooo on August 14, 2012 at 1:07 PM
Hello again and thanks for the incredibly helpful information! Ive
encountered a rather troubling problem I was hoping you would be
able to help me solve. About a week-week and a half after making my
first batch of oil, I went to use some and (for lack of a better way of
describing) it had turned into a mellow yellowish color with the
consitency of paste/dust. I have been storing it in a small plastic bag
in an airtight mason jar. When I first made it I had it on a piece of wax
paper for about a day-2 days. I recall reading somewhere that oil
should not be stored on wax paper, or parchment paper but I cant
remember what the article specified. Is this possibly the problem? As
well after applying heat to the oil/paste/dust, it seemed to return to
its golden honey oil form.
Again thank a ton for all the great info, your research has giving me
boat loads of confidence in my minimal scientific ablity and
experience! If you need anymore info on my process please ask.
PS. Up until now I had not seen any problem with the oil, mind you
that last time I checked on it was 2-3 days ago.
TO
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon August 15, 2012 at 6:04 AM
The phenomena is called self buddering and is usually strain
specific. It does it all by itself.
It is still good and some folks budder on purpose, to make it
easier to handle.
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Posted by montroller on July 14, 2012 at 7:22 PM
Hey I just wanted to say thanks for the great information. I do have one question
about properly freezing the material prior to extraction. I am using an open ended
tube for reference. You mentioned that it should be frozen in a dry environment to
avoid freezing the buds over and decreasing yield. So I am wondering if a freezer is
suitable for this or if I should use dry ice? Also should I pack the tube and freeze it
all packed or freeze the material and pack after? My plan was to pack the tube
almost full and fill the last part with dry ice, let that sit until the dry ice has frozen
the material inside the tube then pack the remaining portion and run it as quickly
as possible. Any feedback or insight is very helpful.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 16, 2012 at 7:36 AM
Youre welcome!
With our humidity, it works better for us to pack the tube and then freeze it.
It exposes the material to less humidity to form ice.
For running fresh frozen material, consider using a thermos instead of a
tube. It allows you to extend the soak time to compensate for the lower
temperatures.
As far as dry ice, chilling the material slows down the extraction rate and it
is only necessary to chill it enough to keep the water tied up as ice. I
personally have never tried to use dry ice in a tube, so if you do, perhaps
you can report back.
Posted by ommp pay it f orward on June 23, 2012 at 9:50 PM
We appreciate all the updates and fresh photos. Our followers really loved your
plant turnover and dipping fixture.
http://skunkpharmresearch.com/2012/06/16/plant-turnover-and-
dipping-fixture/
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon June 24, 2012 at 8:14 AM
Thanks bro! Glad it interests more folks, than just the nice lady whom I
whomped it up for!
It is based on the same principles that we used to build large mold turn over
devices in the aerospace investment casting industry. You can rotate
objects weighing tons freely with one hand, if you just pick their neutral
axis.
It also isnt all that big, so it can also easily be built from scraps of lumber, as
was mine. The pinion hanger strips and the upper spreader beam were made
out of scraps of unistrut, the aluminum angle was from short pieces of scrap,
and as I recall, all I had to buy was the long pinion bolts, nuts, and washers,
plus the hanger ropes.
I have my own junk piles in two garages and my basement, but sometimes
also pick up scrap metal at $0.50/lb at Clackamas Steel scrap yard here
locally, so do check your scrap yards before pundling down cash for new
stuff, if you dont have what you need squirreled away.
Also check your local Goodwill and Salvation Army stores for cheap
components before starting any project, and you will be amazed at what you
discover if you look at everything from the standpoint of what can I do with
this, instead of just what it is.
It can also be a fun way to spend some quality time with like minded brain
trusts.
Hee, hee, hee, snicker, snark, snort,
ahwoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!1
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Posted by ommp pay it f orward on April 2, 2012 at 11:13 AM
Join http://www.ommppayitforward.com for more from the Skunk Pharm
EK
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon April 3, 2012 at 5:36 AM
An overall good forum for OMMP patients looking for information and
support, without drama.
GW
Posted by bongoognob on March 15, 2012 at 8:10 PM
How many times will you purge your oil in the vacuum with heat? Just the once
youve noticed?
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon March 16, 2012 at 5:26 AM
Five minutes, one time, at -29.9 mm/hg, sitting in near boiling water, using
the Terpenator.
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon March 19, 2012 at 9:36 AM
Once!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon July 18, 2012 at 6:40 PM
Thanks for the good thoughts!
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon May 2, 2013 at 5:43 AM
Thanks for the good thoughts but no experts here, only more advanced students.
Do feel free to take what you can use and discard the rest!
GW
Posted by cooper on October 8, 2013 at 10:58 AM
do u still update the site i had a few questions
Posted by Skunk PharmResearch,LLCon October 13, 2013 at 7:16 PM
What are your questions?
Posted by Organic alchemist on March 4, 2014 at 3:53 PM
Bump !!
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