Isaac: Okay, so just starting with-we want to hear your life story, we want to hear about your personal

experience in Iran up to the Revolution and beyond the revolution and then when you left. Mrs. Nazari: Okay, sure. I was born in 1973 at Tehran, from parents that they were both scientists, and my dad used to have a big business in Iran and I used to go, mys sister and I used to go to a Catholic school in Iran. And it was almost like Francis Parker, it really reminds me of that, we had to wear uniforms, we had nuns, we had chapel, so once a week we would go to chapel, we would have (pauses) partially, it was a French school. So half a day, youd have French lessons, and in the afternoon wed have Iranian or Farsi school. And then wed have the Shah and the King who would come visit the school, so it was very much Americanized and westernized, for sure. And, so life was practically normal, like your life here, you would go to piano lessons, ballet classes, I dont know, gymnastics, soccer, and it was very much a daily life, think about your life here, I tell my kids think about your life here, everything you do you just expect to school and come back. Then little by little, you would hear at night that there were curfews at night, that you cant get out, or you have to be back home at a certain time, and as a kid you wondered what is it, whats going on, so its (pauses) you hear that there are some whispers about people want to throw the Shah out, that some students there started to riots in the University of Tehran, they start to close the University, and then little by little they closed the schools. I remember one day I wake up and my mom said you cant go to school today because they closed the school, and a riots in the streets, and theres shootings going on, so we have to stay home, which was fun, because, I, I want to stay home, you know, so we stay home, and it was fun. But then one day ended up becoming one week and then pretty soon we heard that some of the nuns have left the country, you know, because something was going on, something big was going on. And for me I was little, I was probably six years old, and I just, these are the very few things I remember. I wanted to go down the street and visit my grandmother, and I have a picture in front of my eyes, and, we couldnt drive, because the streets were full of students. They wanted the Shah to go. They want a regime change, they wanted a democracy, they did not like the kingdom. So, at that point you know something was going on, so, I think thats my recollection of revolution per se, and I remember there were some revolutionary songs on TV, and it was very, it was like, on TV we used to have shows, and dances, and songs and then it was changing to all these revolutionary songs against the Shah, and people dont wear ties anymore! You know, people used to wear ties, bow ties, and like, women used to not wear any kind of scarf and it would all be very fancy, but then you would see that little by little that was changing, even on TV. We started to not have electricity at night, and the way government was fighting back was to create power outages, so people cannot, you know, get connected to each other or watch TV, but people still managed to go out at night, and still do the riots, and (pauses) the curfews. I remember in the street I used to live, there were curfews! You would get out at ten, and there were soldiers in the streets so you cant really do much. And then, then the other thing I remember is when, in the street, people were dancing. This is another memory of revolution, and that was they were giving each other cookies. People wondered, what is going on, and they said, well the Shah has finally left the country, and then people were very happy and celebrating. It was in February, the week after, I remember, you know Ayatollah Khomeini? The one-

Ben, Isaac: Yeah. Mrs. Nazari: He came from France to Iran, and I remember that my dad had to close his business because he was really worried that things were going to go really bad, now that hesbecause we were very pro-Shah, and now that this mullah is coming, is probably going to, things were not going to do very good for us. So, I think this is my memory of revolution, but I have to share something interesting. (5:00) We used to go to school with no scarf, and we were in second grade, and wearing tiny little miniskirts, and you know, go to school. One day I remember in the classroom we had the principal come in the class and say Well g irls, starting this week, you all have to wear something to cover your hair. You can still wear a skirt, but it cannot be mini, you have to wear a longer skirt, and you have to wear long socks, and were going to pass something out for every girl to wear, a tiny little scarf to cover your hair. And boys have to sit on the other side, and the girls have to be on this side, or boys have to be going to another school. It was really strange, really really strange. I couldnt believe that, it was so...I thought it was a joke! Like, think about it, if someone comes today and says you guys cannot go to school with the girls, the girls have to wear-it was almost like a shock! Hows that possible? So I went to my house and I told my mom, and my mom says Dont worry, of course not, we dont have to do that, its a joke, I mean, this, this, is a free country, we arent going to do this! And, it did happen. My mom has to overnight make a veil for me. I remember, we couldnt find, she has to find, this fabric and put together this tiny, it was white, like a little square, and I didnt know how to put it on, so I had to put it, take my hair out and cover my hair, and I looked so ugly! And I remember, I was looking and like Im not going to go to school like this! I look like such and such when they do their prayers! and my mom was like Well then you cant go to school!. So, well, the next day we went to school with the scarf, and it was, it was, you would almost know that something was changing. Thats how I knew that things were very different, and all the nuns were gone, and the chapel wasnt there. We didnt have any more French school, so I had to get a private tutor for French, for example, so we had the private tutor, you were not allowed to learn French or english or anything that had to do with the west. Its Farsi, and eventually Arabic has to be your second language. Well, sometimes I look at it and Im like, at least I know how to speak Arabic. So I look at that in a positive way, but it was of course very shocking and very uncomfortable for the rest of us. (Pauses) Well, what else do you want to know?

Absolutely. So, if you look at the history of Iran, of course history is based on analysis and perception. (8:00) What Im saying to you now, if a person from another area from the USA on Iran right now theyd say, no, I dont agree with that. But this is how I view it, how a lot of people like me view it. Iran history is about an Arab invasion, always, if you look at the history of Iran for-we have a history of 2500 years, if you look at it from the beginning until now, there are cycles of Arabs taking over, and Iranians always trying to throw them out. So, this revolution, we believe, is another Arab invasion of Iran. And, people have not been able to physically throw the government, but have been trying to protest that. One of the ways is to keep our culture, we still speak Farsi, and Farsi is different than Arabic. We still have Nevruz, the New Year, the strictly

Persian new year. We still have, even though, they wanted to throw all the Jews out of the country, we still have synagogues in Iran. We still have Jews, we still have Christians, we have the oldest churches in Iran that are so beautiful. They wanted to ruin those, they wanted to take away but people didnt let that happen. So people still celebrate Christmas even though you are not allowed to buy trees. People have fake trees. They always try to find a way to block all these things because they believe (9:40) its Islamic, you have to believe in Islam and theres all the mullahs and again, its all about Islam (pauses) Not that theres anything wrong with people who are Muslim, absolutely not, but the religion should not become based on the political situation of the country. Religion should not rule your political decision, you know what Im saying? Here, its very secular, right, so the church is very separate from the government. The same thing has to be the case in Iran but its not the case in Iran right now. They want to impose that and the youth currently try to protest that. So a lot of us left during the 80s, many, many people left including my family. So when the war with Iraq started in 1980, maybe 1981, I think 1980, I dont quite remember... (interviewers:it was 1980), 1980, the war started and it was absolutely miserable (10:40). Guys, I have to tell you I witnessed bombs and Im not kidding, attacking right my house, right, right, right there and thats probably one of the reason that most Persians hated Saddam Hussein because of the nightmares we lived for 8 years, although I wasnt there for 8 years, I was there for 2 years, but I could not ever forget. We did not have food, there was shortage of food, there was short, we didnt have electricity most of the time. We couldnt go to school because he bombing left and right (11:00). Over a million soldiers got killed, young kids, 12 years old have to go fight, think about it, you guys are 14, 14 year old boys have to go fight the war because we didnt have enough soldiers to fight it. The way that Saddam used chemical bombs in the southeast of Iran, its, its heartbreaking, heartbreaking. Its probably very harsh but when I saw him on Tv and going to be executed, I feel.. Im think Im going to get emotional ... like it was such a good day for us because it was absolutely sad to see people, young people, my house, my house blew out or my school blew out. It was just a daily, daily struggle. It is a lot of unfortunately negative feelings toward Iraq even though you hear right now that we are friends but never Iran will be able to come an ally with Iraq because theres so much hatred, so to this day if Iraqi people go to Iran they can never have a residency. They can never have, there is no way, because they are never welcome. Its so much, again, If you think about it, its another Arab battle with Iran. It was about oil but Saddam was to take over Iran (12:45) because we were really weak at the time, it was right after the revolution. During the Shah,one of the benefits of the Shah was he was always blocking him. He tried, he tried a few times to attack during the Shah, but the Shah said, you know what, you are so poor, you are so nothing, Im not going to let that happen. But right after the Shah left, the first thing he did was basically to attack Iran. Did I answer your question? Is there more? Ben: Yes. Definitely. Mrs. Nazari: Very good.

Ben: We know how they were protesting the major problems of the Savak because they were so extremely cruel. After one of our recent interviews, we realized that the new police force under the regime is just as bad, if not worse. Mrs, Nazari Absolutely. You are correct, in fact there are a lot of movies about SAVAK and how bad it was, but the current SAVAK, SAVAK we say, I think its called (pauses) [unintelligible], it was something, and they are absolutely brutal. They are trained in Russia, trained by the KGB, they are trained by China, so, its, the way the techniques they use-I saw a documentary-so we have a Persian satellite at home and we were watching [unintelligible], its an extremely extremely brutal documentary I watched, sometimes Im like why did I do that, its a documentary about the technique they use. It was one of them, so think of the SAVAK of this time, think about, lets say Im one of them, and your mom and I are partners and we want to interrogate one of you guys. One of us, lets say, by, by, by my phone we gonna record whats happening, and then post that on the Persian website, and thats how people saw that as a documentary. And the way they were interrogating two students and a woman, its just dark. Its very very brutal. You would think: How could a person, how could a human being do that? They are definitely brutal, the way they rape these girls, the way they rape boys, the way they prosecute, its, its, extremely unhumanistic. And their excuse is like Because of the Law of Islam. And you like-I received an email, I wish I had that, in the law of Islam if you steal something your hand has to be cut off. In the Persian culture we dont do that! I mean, you dont execute people in the street or in front of the public! So one student, a political student at the University of Tehran he owed money from someone and he stole, equivalent of 50 or 20 dollars which is really nothing, but because of the economy in Iran which is really bad right now thats a lot of money. They executed him, this young man, in public, in front of people. So their SAVAK, or Secret Service, is brutal (16:00) . Is (pause) I dont know if Im responding to your question enough, or how much more do you want, or how much to elaborate. They still interrogate, they still take people away, and you never find them. You dont know where they went and they disappear! Theres been a lot of students whove disappeared since the Green Revolution and we never found them, we dont know where they are. Isaac: I just want to ask, because Im curious, how do you know Marjane Satrapi? Mrs. Nazari: Marjane Satrapi, we came to France when we left Iran, is not like I know her like my best friend, but Ive been, a couple of years ago, I went to Paris, I go to France, I grow up in France and shes in France and a couple of years older than me but we went to the same school as I used to go in Iran, so a few years back I went to France when this book was out and I was in Paris so we all went and saw her, chitchat with her, because its so, so close to our hearts, like our stories, its and, she had a book signing session at the time, shes very open, very open, down to earth, we had a discussion with her (17:30) and I have her personal email and stuff, and she would definitely do something not like someone who would say Oh Im not gonna do that Thats how I know. Theres a lot of Iranians in France. Good community. Ben: Also, with the revolution, at the start it was more of an anti-Shah movement but then over time, it became an anti-dissident movement, when did that really start?

You know I think -- do you guys know about Mossadegh? (yes, yea) the prime minister of Iran, you know there is a book, maybe you guys could read it. Its called The Shah of Shahs. Its written by an American, very interesting figure. 20/20, no, Sunday morning show brought it one time. I dont remember the name, well, Ill bring it to you guys. But the anti-US started during the time of Prime Minister Mossadegh. It was during the nationalization of oil. So there has always been, the US has always been an ally of Iran. However, there has always been a fear of the US using Iran for oil . Thats when anti-US started almost around that time, little by little. It was very hidden. I think Shahs mistake was that he wanted people to not talk about it and right away, close down, shut down the movement. If he was slightly more open about it and let people discuss it openly maybe we would not have had this revolution. During the Shah and President Carter, it got more and more in depth. I dont think people lik ed Carter, President Carter, was probably one of the most disliked president for the people of Iran. People really started hating US at the time because they thought the US was going to help the Shah or do something. Some of us thought he would make him stay but he couldnt do it. But its very different now (19:50). I think people have always loved the people of the United States and I think actually the government too. But the government of Iran is another story. They probably dont like the United State because of United State being ally of Israel. I dont know if that answered your question? Ben: We know that during the revolution, before the revolution even, there was a really big divide between the wealth in Iran, with most of oil money going to the rich and barely any going to the poor, if any. Has that changed recently or is it still just as bad, if not worse, because their economic position is not where it needs to be. (20:43) Right. So thats a very interesting point. Thats one of the reasons people started the revolution because of this book, I dont know if you guys read this book, Sky of Red Poppies. (no, unintelligble). Ok, so the book, if you actually read it, it shows that this girl is so wealthy that they own a village and all the villagers work for them. (21:05). Thats an example. My husband was like that. My husbands dad owns a town and all the people work for his dad and give money to his dad, like they are workers! However, they all would have free food, they all would have free clothes, but they would not all have a lot of salary, of money. So it was a system of trade more than anything. But because of all these differences, people had it enough, they like we are not workers, we not slaves. We are people who want the Revolution and youre right, the money of the oil would go to people that were pretty wealthy. However, right now, I have to tell you, everything, and you can quote me on that, Im not scared, after the revolution, everything got worse. Now, the difference between the poor and the rich is beyond words, its just too much. Theres so much poverty that so many school kids have to work in the streets, so much prostitution, so much, its just beyond our wildest dreams, and the money goes to all these mullahs and all these Islamists and these hardcore islamic people that all now live in Canada. Or Switzerland. Their kids are all in Canada or Switzerland. What Canada and Switzerland are doing these days, they block their money, because their money belongs to the people of Iran. So yeah. The difference...pauses...is huge.

Ben: Another things thats really interesting about national relations between Iran and other countries, like now they are almost feared, but one of the people we interviewed said that its no so much that they are feared its just that when people hear Iran, people, they want that attention, because that attention is what makes them seem almost powerful in a sense. Mrs. Nazari: Thats true. Ben (continuing): It gives validity to the revolution. Look at our position now, where as once the position, once people start to look back, and think they re not a threat, something new pops up. So its the reason the revolution did actually help you guys, look at what its done for us, now we are respected, now we have a say. Is this true? Mrs. Nazari: Its a propaganda, it is very true. The government in Iran, like look at Ahmadinejad. What did he do? Chavez, he was the first person at the funeral. Nobody acknowledged Venezuelas president, they they consider him a Fascist, the guy who give money to Chile and to Peru but his own people are hungry, and are struggling. So what, Iran embraced that, they do, Iran embraced North Korea, Iran embraced all these countries and you think-are they nuts?! You know, they are not nuts. They are very smart, those people, you are right, they have a tactic. They want to make a point. Look at us, this revolution makes us very important. They dont care about their own country or other peoples reputations because people of Iran dont care about Hugo Chavez. Why would we, we, you know what Im saying, why wouldnt the president try and take care of current issues right now going on in Iran, people being so poor, instead of spending a week with Hugo Chavezs mother, for Hugo Chavezs funeral, so you are absolutely right, its more of a propaganda. Its more erasing all the-like China, and Iran and Russia and China are like the closest allies. Iran is sending, you know most of Iran right now is a Shia, and Syria is one Shia, ruling the whole Sunnis, right? So Iran is sending weapons to Syria, Isaac: Because they dont want the Sunnis to gain control? Mrs. Nazari: Yeah, you like, why are we doing all these wrong things, just because we wanted to say, exactly, (25:00) look at what revolution does, we are so powerful. You have a very valid point. Absolutely. Ben: We know the two different sects of the Muslim religion, Shia and Sunni, do play major roles, did that have any role in the Iran-Iraq war? Was there something betweenMrs. Nazari: Definitely, and you have to remember that Iranians, Iran, was not a Islamic country, it was a Zoroastrian country, we are all, you know, if you see, you go to old places in Iran, we have all these temples, I mean, you guys know Zoroastria, so during the first Arab invasion, Mohammed came to the king of Iran and said I want all your people to believe in my God to Cyrus the Great and Cyrus the Great said well, you believe in your religion, me and my people believe in ours, and lets be in in peace. So Cyrus the Great did not want to have that, but after that, the invasion of Arabs began to change Iran. And some of the way Iran protested was that it

created Shia, which really wasnt existant in the concept of Islam as it is. They say it is very political, we beleive in Middle East that the concept of Shia is extremely political, created mainly by Iran just to play the Arabs, including Iraq, right? Because Iraq was Sunni, so what happened was, definitely Iraq, the reason for the attack, you dont see Sunni countries attacking each other, we dont have that, but they definitely do attack Iran, they attack Iran because of that conflict between Shia and Sunni, and there was some, an interesting thing, Bahrain, you know Bahrain used to belong to Iran, and people of Bahrain are Shia, but the ruler is Sunni, so theres also a war in there right now, in Bahrain. Definitely, the Sunni-Shia thing has always played out, its the main reason of war, right now in Syria, they say we are Sunni! Why do we have a Shia ruler? You know, but definitely, that has always been, the Middle East is plagued by religion, look at Palestine, look at Israel, those guys, its all about-Lebanon! So Iran is sending lots of weapons to Hezbollah there because their is a part of them there that is Shia, so its always, thats the, you know Im saying, because the Arab invasion, because the way they are fighting back is with Shia-Sunni, theres always tension because of that. So (Pauses) these are very good questions you guys ask, I am so proud of you guys. Ben: With the religion, was there something, did the Shah prevent them from practicing their religion, like did Khomeini use that to his advantage? Mrs. Nazari: No, not at all. You know his name is Reza, Shah is Reza Pahlavi, right? Reza is a very Shia name. Absolutely, he was very much of a believer, I think there are pictures in the Shahnameh Pahlavi that showed that he go to the shrine, because Reza is one of the Shia prophets that were Shia descendents of Muhammad, he has a big shrine in the north of Iran, in the city of Mashhad, and the Shah would go every year, and his sons name is also Reza, so definitely, he was not at all against any religion, he just did not want the mullahs to interweave in politics, which I think he was very ahead of his time, absolutely, and now look at the mess were having, you know, these mullahs in politics. Ben: Because we did know Khomeini used religion to his advantage, Mrs. Nazari: Absolutely. Ben: In his letters, they were so filled with hope that people reading them would get behind him, theyd support him one hundred percent. And then all of a sudden, when he got to office, this democracy, this noble purpose, like went away, and you saw his true intentions. Mrs. Nazari: Absolutely. He literally betrayed people. There are pictures, and I told you I wish my parents were in town so I could show you the pictures, there are pictures and there are videos, I think the videos you would be able to find on YouTube, about when Khomeini came from France to Iran there were young students around him, holding him, when he got into office, the first thing he did was to execute all the people around him. And you like- Why? Isaac: What?

Mrs. Nazari: Because they were the insiders, because they knew what was going on. He definitely betrayed people, (pauses) he, they say, the history of Khomeini is a very long history. His father was against the father of the Shah of Iran, and Khomeini was always against the Shah, and he, they say, its, its, its, a saying that one day he sent a messenger to Shah to say you know, Im telling you to back off (30.00) Because there will be a day Im going to take over and I will show you that this country is ultimately a religious country and granted, he finally did that. The Shah used to send him to exile constantly, but he would get back, he was very revengeful, they say. And he did, we lost so many youth, so many young, young, young people, yeah, its (pauses) unfortunately. Ben: Is there a possibility that another revolution like the Iranian Revolution can happen in Iran again and maybe this time be succesful, and Iran will get that democracy they started to want and a voice? Mrs. Nazari: What a good question. I certainly hope so, I think the mini-revolution that happened in 2009, the Green Movement, we believe, a lot of people believe, the Arab Spring is a following of that, because people could not believe it, that this was happening in Iran, and I think what people of Iran after that incident, you know, the Neydar incident, I think what these youths have found out is you cannot, the revolution has to be a very different revolution, very cultural, and very subtle. You cannot get in the street and be ready to be killed and tortured by this government but culturally, you can fight with them, and through facebook, and YouTube, and twitter, through media, through youth, and I think there will be, I dont think I will be alive to see that, but I am sure there will be a day they will through this government out. Its just a matter of (pauses) its very very soon, soon being for history, because you know for history, soon is maybe a couple of hundred years, but it will be a day, it will be a day, because they have changed their strategy. People have learned to (pauses) not fight back with weapons, but fight back with much stronger weapon, which is the media, which is the culture, which is to keep the culture, I mean right now, all this culture that we never had we forgot, theyre using it now in Iran, like all the other old books, nobody use Quran anymore, you know, its all the old old stuff are coming back, theyre restoring and renovating of all these old historical Persian places, and these are their ways of fighting back, and they come here, they go to MIT, they go to Berkeley, they learn stuff, and then they go back. And they do it, so its, there will be a day, I think hopefully you guys will witness it, but I dont think I will see it, but yes definitely. Always we have been able to throw out the religious people, even if it took us a while. Yeah. Hope so. Ben: Isaac do you have anything to add? Isaac: Nope. Ben: Thank you. Isaac: Thank you. Mrs. Nazari: Oh, Thank you. Thank you guys, very good questions Ben. (33:12) End.